K-series Thermostat. Stop Overheating & Better Heater. Change PRT to output type - Old PRT reused.
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- Опубликовано: 3 окт 2024
- Better Cooling! MG Rover Freelander Thermostat. Stable head temperature! Better Heater! I show a new much better setup that avoids any potential overheating, keeps the temperature more stable and makes the cabin heater much better by changing to an output type thermostat (as used by racers) at no cost, just reconfiguring the PRT one!
I discuss what failure mechanism and overheating problem I have fixed with the new setup.
Second I discuss where the original thermostat is and how to change it and the rear pipe - often a source of leaks.
Third how to do a conversion to a PRT type external thermostat and what it is, plus a look at the internals and how it works.
Fourth - why the PRT setup can lead to engine overheating when idling, especially in cold air and why you may not know you have a problem.
Fifth and finally the NEW configuration - a replumbing of the existing PRT that turns it into an engine output type of thermostat that gives MUCH more stable engine temperatures and removes the previous ‘overheat on idle’ failure mechanism. It also gives a much better cabin heater.
The PRT system often appears to work ok but there is a mechanism whereby it can lead to significant engine overheating (117 Centigrade!. Which can shorten the like of the cylinder head and gasket).
To see the failure mechanism you either need an additional temp gauge or an OBDII reader as the car gauge just shows normal from about 60 to 110C! (Like most modern cars! - they don’t like to worry customers!).
After a long time idling it can sometimes overheat. I changed to another PRT and a similar overheat happened. Tried grey and biege PRTs. I split the old PRT apart to check operation. The pressure spring / plate is against the bypass flow pipe (engine out to pump inlet pipe). It is also pushed more as the thermostat opens (that makes sense in that it reduces the bypass flow when hot). The thermostat opening controls the cold return from the rad, the back of the thermostat with the sensing section has a limited flow from the spring/plate/ bypass flow with some mixing from the cold rad return when the thermostat opens.
So the stat is trying to provide a set temperature of the return water, which is a mix of bypass and rad return water, rather than control the engine out temperature like most engine stats.
Problem: At idle there is little water flow through the bypass hose as the water pressure is low and the spring /plate is closed and limits the bypass flow. The flow is restricted to 4 small holes in the plate.
This small flow of hot water has to heat the thermostat which has cold water the other side of it and the PRT is a bit of distance away from the engine. Soo.. the engine could get very hot before the thermostat eventually opens. Which is what I see happening, and its made worst by the fans coming on as the engine gets hot, as this air flow just cools the PRT and bypass flow more, which doesnt help open the thermostat.
Any revs quickly opens the pressure spring/plate due to higher water pressure, this increases hot water flow to the stat and it opens, rapidly cooling the engine with colder water. Not good either = big sudden temperature change.
So a better system is, I believe, with a engine water outlet thermostat.
This would then regulate the outlet temperature keeping it constant, reducing engine temperature fluctuations which can be bad for the HG.
An alternative is to open up the 4 holes in the spring plate more, but this allows for more bypass all the time even when very hot, which is not good. I tried this with a couple of 5mm holes, but it didn’t prevent idle overheating (110C).
The temp variation observed above was with a beige PRT, which is slightly higher temp than the original grey one, but the same effect was also observed on the grey one. I split apart the grey stat and it worked fine opening fully at 100C in boiling water. Hence why I changed to an output type of thermostat configuration.
The car never showed any problem when used normally as this overheating problem only shows on idling for a long time. Like what happened to me while the car was having an MOT test! Or stuck in traffic for 10 mins. Not good.
Due to the inherent issue of the PRT regulating the water temperature going into the engine rather than the more normal regulation of water temperature coming out, then the plan involves a replumb the PRT to make it a plain thermostat (not pressure regulated) that works on the engine water outlet.
It works and is a lot more stable.
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The video is about my personal opinion and experience. No responsibility is accepted for any perceived recommendation nor any consequential damage. You accept any responsibility for any subsequent actions or decisions that you take.
Thank you a bit of common sense , I have only just brought a Freelander 1 it is not the first one I have owned but both have had the K1800 motor the first one I had it fitted with a brand new motor and the thermostat was fitted externally from Landrover at great expense after having cylinder head problems with the old motor this was 14 years ago it was a 2000 model and with the new motor it was a briant little four wheel drive very reliable after I sold it 5 years ago I missed it so much I recently brought another a 04 four door with a very straight body my intention is to restore it and incorporate some modifications such as your thermostat re location so thank you very much for taking the time to share it, brilliant.
Thanks for your nice comments. Have fun.
Finally I found a very substantive video in the whole yt about freelander. I'm very glad that there are people like you. Are you able to draw or use photos to outline how to convert it to work like in your freelander?
Thanks. I was hoping that the video and description in the video would be clear enough to show the new configuration. Have you watched it all?
@@comeinhandynow so I watched the whole thing. Is it enough to buy a team kit to bypass and that's it?
That explains things better with my 1.4 k series on the original setup, good video thank you.
Cheers.
Hello my friend, thanks for the tips,you are great.I didi the thermostat prt but i used a lada niva thermostat which is metal and opens at 80 Also has a bigger gap to flow the water to the bottom radiator . The temp at the cluster is a little below midle and in the gauge at the top hose never rise over 90. ❤❤❤❤
Sounds good.
did you use the same pipes?
@@elemix3454 yes near enough but with a bit of swapping and cutting, from memory.
Thanks for this great instructive vid on a very important topic. I would like to cool down 200TDi, which we swapped from a Discovery to my 109 S3. Heinz
Thanks and good luck.
Im just fininshing an year long engine overhaul on an mg zs 120, and tomorrow is a prt day, so your video will be a life saver, what a perfect timing lol. Im glad yoy've imroved the video quality too, looking much better now. Thanks a lot man.
P.S. I asked you time ago if you oil the head bolts before fitting them and you said you didint, but then I saw in the workshop manual that oiling of the thread and the head of the bolt where it connects to the head was recommended. Just in case you are interested, cus you are quite a rover fan. Keep the good work up, kudos from me!
Cheers and good luck with your project. I loved my old MG ZS. I had both a 1.8 and a v6, both great.
@@comeinhandynow fitted it as per your video (I have the black one) and so far what Ive noticed is that it warms up significantly slowlier th an with the normal thermostat that was originally in the engine. Otherwise seems to be working fine. On a different note, i need some help man. Im running another overhaul and decided to buy a brand new aftermarket crankshaft (Type A) for the 1.8 k series standard engine, but when it arrived I measured it and the journals are about 47.96 which according to the rover overhaul manual is below specs for normal journals. And now Im wondering if I should return it and just grind the original crank? Im at a bloody loss. Why a brand new crank would be below specs??
A question , I have watched the four methods of stopping head gasket failure on the Rover K series and also the 1.8 Freelander over heating at idle video .
The installation of the PRT thermostat is modified in the Freelander can I apply this installation method on my Rover 45 1.4 ?
Yes, as it’s the same k-series engine.
@@comeinhandynow thank you for coming back to me so quickly , I will apply your Freelander advice to my 45 as it seems very logical to me . Thanks again for the informative videos , super useful and very well made .
what does it mean plip the throttle and could you not just change the thermostat thank you
The comment “blip the throttle” means just a very short press of the accelerator pedal. This reconfigured plumbing for the thermostat I consider a much better cooling control solution since it eliminates a potential failure mechanism of overheating when idling a long time.
Hey man ! Just about to change the modded front external thermostat on my Freelander 1.8L 2005 Facelift - would this be a good idea if i live where temperatures in winter get down to -35 degrees 'c' ? Was thinking what you said about everything going through the radiator and the temp differences being tonhigh which is bad for your engine.....also, anything special to note about coolant flushing, apart form the the two bleed screws - you don't have to prefil areas like the heating core when refilling if you took off all the tubes? Do you have a vid on it ? Please let me know what you think - cheers! 😏
Yes it would be a good idea. One other benefit I forgot to mention is that it makes the heater inside the car warmer which makes it better in winter. This is because more water gets pushed through the heater matrix rather than bypass it. And by using the cream PRT which opens at 88C you also get warmer water and another heater improvement, at the same time as stopping it getting really hot and overheating at 117C!
When bleedimg just make sure you run the car until hot water is going through the radiator so air is pushed out and open those bleed bolts one at a time until no air comes out of them. They need to be bled of air well. That’s it on refill/bleeding.
Am a little confused as to the direction of everything and where the hot water should come out of the radiator on refilling to push out air - top or bottom ? ( never did it before). By air well, do you mean coolant pressure tank ?
I missunderstand the concept too in living in such a cold area - thought that -25 air blowing through everything that is now going through the radiator, would cause the re-entering coolant to be too great a temperature differnce to that in the engine which could cause damage..... its hard for me to get my head around it - so new to all this .... respect! 😏
Sorry, I just noticed I didn’t reply to this one, hope you are sorted by now. Running the engine until the radiator starts to get warm and regular opening of the two bleed bolts should be enough to expel the air, but take it for a run just to check it hasn't still got air in it and that it doesn’t overheat.
The cold water from the rad will be mixed with bypass water and the engine will only take the right amount of this mixture to keep the engine around 88-100C, so cold water in shouldn’t be the case, unlike the original setup which can oscillate hot/cold.
As already committed about my partner's Streetwise issues! ...I would like to add, the thermostat is as normal at the back, the issue we had with this, there was no heat in the car! ...a video on Utube showed a 5p piece placed in there would restrict the water flow and make the heater work ...I did this, and it worked, she had heat! ... however, now seeing this video, the engine would be running way to hot, and no indication of that! ...one engine is sorted, the improvement will be done Regards Norm's
Well done on keeping these on the road. This improvement in this video is well worth it. Nicer heater temperature and no high head temperatures.
can you send me a diagram of where to run the pipes as I will be upgrading a facelift 05 1.8k thank you
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hello, I have a rover 75 k1.8 but ordinary without turbo can I use this modification? and what should she look like?
Yes the modification is the same as it’s the same engine
what one is best for summer 88 or 82 thank you
88 as best in the winter for the heater, but also ok all year round as long as you do this upgrade.
My freelander td4 won’t start when its cold and I dont know what the problem is. I changed the glow plugs but it did not fix the problem. My fuel pump is a bit Nosie but I changed the fuel pump A year ago. My glow light doesen’t show on the instrument panel. I have to start the car with engine starter gas. Do you know what it could be?
Did you put in cheap glow plugs or better ones like delphi? If your glow plug light is not on there is your problem - glow plugs are not being powered. Check the fuse for the glow plugs and glow plug relay.
@@comeinhandynow We bought Ridex glow plugs for about 30£ for 4 plugs. Last winter the glow plug light was not on either but the car startet fast anyway. Can it be the fuel pumb or should it be the glow plug system?
Don’t know that make, £30 for 4 sounds too cheap. If the glow light is not coming on then that is a problem that needs fixing. Check that first.
I was going to say that you had my landrover. Then i realised there was no snorkel and i have the m47 engine lol
Thanks for watching!
Do you know if this would work for a turbocharged MG TF that has a 78 degree PRT?
Yes any PRT can be replumbed like this.
Thanks, just trying to work out what pipes I need to change and modify on the MG TF
I read that was a standard cooling system of all Freelanders after 2001, is that true?
The PRT thermostat is a standard fitment but the reconfiguration of the PRT that I was refering to in the video is a replumbing of it to turn it into an output type one rather than an input type.
@@comeinhandynow Thx
@@comeinhandynowMy freelander have 113 °C in traffic. Is that normal?
interesting but nothing bad in my opinion this "fix" is useless because I had it on my car and it overheated anyway and I replaced the head gasket. Then I left the thermostat just the rear one and for 1 year it ran just fine and today it does it again so in my opinion the engine is BADLY designed and would need forced cooling e.g. by an electric pump.
If your head gasket had gone then no changes to the thermostat is going to fix that. I am confused by what you say. Did you have this modded outlet type thermostat, the later type PRT inlet type thermostat or the original rear inlet thermostat and one type ONLY? The best set up I found by years of use is the outlet type shown in this video. I have run it for years on my 1.8 turbocharged 200bhp freelander 1 with zero problems. Zero overheating zero water loss. So there is nothing wrong with the basic engine when this mod is done. If changing the head gasket you need to do it correctly, see my other freelander turbo engine build video for some tips on gasket, liner heights/shims and sealing.
@@comeinhandynow For me the engine is poorly designed, the thermostat should have been completely different and triggered differently, the exhaust manifolds should also have been made better, and the performance of this 1.8 engine is simply low for such a car with 4x4 drive, and the biggest problem I see on this car is that the coolant temperature gauge has never shown that the engine is overheating always just shows the maximum operating temperature even when it was measured 110 degrees Celsius. For me it's not a very good car and by the way I'm not some dumbass who can't fix a car I even have a small home service and everything always works fine so it's really not that I can't.
@@64RWD The original thermostat position is poor, I agree. The exhaust manifolds are fairly standard for a production car, lower performance than a tubular one but a standard cheaper approach like most others. More power is better I agree. The engine design did get many praises and a ‘design centre’ award when it first came out. It is a lot better than some other engines, like the BMW / peugeot engine in the 2007 Mini that I had poor reliability experience of. Or the bmw td4 used in the freelander and other bmws. I find my 200bhp 1.8 freelander much more acceptable and adequate performance for the size of car.
As for the temperature gauge reading just normal for most of the time, I don’t like that either but it seems to be a very common practice of most car manufacturers nowadays - they don’t like to worry owners by indicating anything other than normal. I much prefer to know what the temperature is on a linear scale, so I fit an extra gauge.
@@comeinhandynow I also installed an external coolant temperature gauge.
hi - are you can give me firmware you turbo ecu ? (200hp)