How to Repair a Worn Flintlock Frizzen : Swallow Forge
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- Опубликовано: 10 дек 2016
- A lot of reproduction flintlocks, especially some of the cheaper ones from india, tend to have low grade steel frizzens that have been case hardened. After a hundred or so firings, the case hardened steel is worn away revealing the softer steel beneath. This then causes misfires due to little or no spark. You could just case harden the frizzen again, but you will always have the same problem. This is a simple repair that I have seen on museum pieces over 300 years old.
I have replicated this type of repair on many locks that have then worked flawlessly.
here's how I do it ....
Last year I took a class at the Fort Ticonderoga Historical Center offsite from their museum where we got to handle and examine original Brown Bess muskets and a couple of them had metal that was pinned to the frizzens to repair them and get them back in service again. In those days it wasn't just as easy to just take off the frizzen and have a blacksmith work on it so it was interesting to see how field repairs were done back in the day to keep the guns serviceable.
love your firelock stuff keep up the good work
your video gave me the idea to epoxy a piece of hack saw blade on my worn out frizzen today and it is now working good. I heated it and bent it to fit then hardened it and glued it right on there, took about a half hour. gona braze up a nice one like yours when I get a bit more ambitious. thanks for the tip.
I'll just push the sofa out of the way in my studio apartment and heat up the old forge and get right on it.
Could you do a series on a complete build of a flint lock rifle from the ground up using no premade parts?
Very interesting. Thanks. Re steel. I have a 1770 Blunderbuss that must have great steel in the frizzen. She is 250 years old this year & she has only failed to strike twice I think, & that was a loose flint. She blows hell out of things on 1oz of coarse powder and the same of shot. She is proofed for 3oz of powder and 3oz of mixed shot - buck & ball - but I won't be doing that. Lovely work inside. I had to make her a new main spring. I made about 8 out of old blades to get a feel for how the gunsmiths did it. At the same time I got a supply of good steel and very helpful advice from a London gunsmith. In particular all the springs are carefully filed to a semi triangular section that varies along the length. This reduces the chance of a spring breaking on a bend. There is a lot of file work in them. So with the good new metal I made a perfect copy of the original using a file on the annealed steel & trying to follow the file marks on the broken one. Files are great ! I did the bends , heated to cherry & then quenched to full hard in warm water, polished & then tempered to spring purple. Works a treat. I would love to make a complete lock one day. Keep the videos coming !
You are quite right, many original springs have very interesting profiles. I have seen a couple that were fullered like a sword blade. Sounds like you have a very lovely gun there. If you go to my facebook page you can upload pictures. I would love to see it 😊
Fine job!! That was very interesting and well done film wise. Thanks for the info
+Stuart Higgins
Thank you.
That’s it! I subbed😂 . I would like to forge an entire lock all parts to it
A shop tour video would be cool. Also a video of your collection would be interesting as well.
+Biral
Hoping to do a shop tour soon. Just as soon S I have tidied up a bit :)
Cool! I learned a lot. Thank you for your time.
Glad you enjoyed it. All the best, SF
Thanks big help on this
That flint is blunt. Imagine what a good, sharp piece of agate would throw against that steel.
Great video very informitive I think I'll give it a go....
Thank you. If you need any help, message me on my facebook page :)
Thanks for this. I have an Indian made Brown Bess that fired great the first 25 times or so. Now nothing. I'll give this a try. Can't make it worse then it already is.
Glad you enjoyed the video. Just check the steel you are using with a spark test to make sure its suitable.
It could be that brazing on a hard, good steel facing on a mild steel frizzen is a good method of constructing a very tough frizzen, might it have been done from new on some old guns?
Great tutorial! (i hate that "First!!!" crap, too) I would have used a worn file, for a serious shower of sparks, but that's just me... i don't actually have many worn files, as they were all made into knives... I always thought one of those flintlock locks would make a great fire starter, just because of the size of flint pieces that could be used... rather than one of those bic lighter kinda tinder strikers, try finding one of those flints in the wilderness.....
+Dark-Wolfe Knives
I have forged down files before. And yes they do spark well. But it's a lot of extra work. The steel from a saw blade is a uniform thickness so saves a lot of time.
If my L&R frizzen ever needs replacing it’s $27 for a new one and I don’t need a blacksmith shop to change it. BUT still an interesting video and an informative one. A question: couldn’t one just take the original and harden it all the way through?
often the battery is made of mild steel, and while you can get it to spark, it doesn't throw sparks like a spring steel will. Usually to get a mild steel to spark decently, it will need to be case-hardened, which is a much thinner (read: shorter lived) facing than sole-ing the battery with a spring steel.
Good video. An alternative is to case harden the frizen. Use Casenit. Its cheap and simple. You dont need to temper it.
There are only so many times you can case harden a frizzen. This method is particularly useful when the frizzen becomes worn, it is also something i have seen on many museum pieces , and wanted to try out for myself.
Doesn't adding 2mm thickness(plus the brass brazing) to the face of the frizzen change the point of impact of the flint's edge, making it strike higher and at a different angle?
How would one correct this, IF correction is needed?
Any minor difference in thickness can be adjusted by the position of the flint.
@@SwallowForge By switching the bevel on the flint from up to down, or vice versa?
What kind of gas torch?
I have a flintlock that doesnt seal the pan well. I always have to carry it tilted towards the flash hole or the powder spills out of the closed pan. Cost me a few shots at deer. How would I remedy this? Is it as simple as changing the geometry of the frizzen or does both parts need to he squared? If so do these areas need to be blued or somehow protected from the elements?
It may be that the hole on the frizzen tang ( where the screw goes though) has worn. This would cause the spring to push the frizzen upwards creating a gap. The best way to fix this is to fill the hole, either with a mig welder or bronze braze, file the frizzen tang for a tight fit. With the spring removed, ensure the frizzen sits over the pan leaving no gaps. This may also require a bit of filing. Once everything is square, clamp the frizzen to the pan and re-drill the hole. Once the screw and spring are fitted, the frizzen should snap shut cleanly on the pan. Hope that helps. If you need any further info, message me on my facebook page. facebook.com/swallowforge
All the best. SF
After dusting off a flintlock pistol I bought new in 1980, I remembered that the frizzen had been worn soft. Nothing to lose if this doesn't turn out but an attractive wall hanger. On the other hand, I also remember that it was astonishingly accurate, so maybe I I should actually make a go of it.
Sounds like the perfect job for the weekend 😊
Really cool vid. I wish I could that kind of stuff. I wonder if I could mail the whole firing piece from my flintlock to this guy and pay him to do the same to my frizzen? She is putting out zero spark. Edit: I now see he is located in the UK! Maybe a bit far. Lol
It is much simpler to merely case harden the frizzen. Look for a product called "Cherry Red" from gun suppliers. The only other thing you need is a propane torch. Several videos on YT about case hardening frizzens.
you also don't have to braze it with copper, many people historically and today use silver-tin solder to attach the sole to the battery. That lowers the amount of heat you have to subject it to (shape and harden your sole, then attatch it to the battery with a 5-600'F solder; and if done properly (slowly heating the parts up to temp) "bam!" you 've tempered the steel and attached it at the same time)
Who is the lock maker of that lock?
Could you solder instead of braze?
I start to make Flint lock pistol
But I am scared of the thickness of the pipe is enough or it will explode in my face
And how much gunpowder should I put on it
Can we make second part of mechanism
That's Flint hit to give more sparks
Ahmed: Anything you make must be given a proof charge when the barrel is finally finished to size, this is 1.3 times the service charge, stand well clear when you fire it via a long cord!
Could you please make a musket from start to finish in one of your videos? I want to seee how its done so I can make a simplified one.
+gavin anderson
Currently in the process of filming the making of a flintlock carbine.
:)
Swallow Forge thanks mate highly appreciate your work and talent!
I know you asked this 2 years ago, but go to this site, ruclips.net/video/qTy3uQFsirk/видео.html . "Colonial Gunsmith". Colonial Williamsburg. I've watch this about 50 times. It's exactly what you want to see.
Where did you buy your mechanism?
+Gal Tutankamon
This isn't my mechanism. A customer brought it in as it was no longer sparking. After discussing the merits of case hardening, replacing the frizzen or refacing it he agreed that refacing was the way he wanted to go. Both from the point of reliability and longevity, and from the point that as he's a reenactor he quite liked the idea of a 'field' repair that would be another talking point about his musket. I believe the lock was manufactured in India.
Thank you.
can you make all of the frizzen from the saw blade
I would recommend getting a larger chunk of high carbon steel too work. I have used car leaf springs before, and old files are very good. But you have to be really careful with the temper, otherwise it could become too brittle and shatter in use. If you plan on making them from scratch, expect a few failures before getting it right. :)
Is that just a propane torch you are using?
+Mark G
Mapp gas, gets a bit hotter than propane. There's no point firing the forge up for small jobs like this :)
Swallow Forge ok thanks.
FYI, in the vernacular of the 18th Century what people call the frizzen was actually called the hammer. What People called cock is what we refer to as the hammer today. I think the frizzen nomenclature came from the German gunsmiths that took flintlock rifles to their absolute apex in Pennsylvania.
Sorry but you have got that a little mixed up. The striker that holds the flint is referred to as the Cock or hammer, on earlier variants of the flintlock such as the English Doglock it was called the Dog Head. The Frizzen on earlier locks was referred to as the Steel or Strike face. The early Germanic name for the frizzen was ‘Stahl’. By the mid 17th century,Frizzen was the accepted terminology for most of the better known English speaking Gunsmiths. The Spanish Miquelete was somewhat different as the strike face was referred to as a ‘Battery’. Hope this helps clear things up. All the best SF
@@SwallowForge one up burn 🔥
ใช้อะไรกะแสไฟ ชื่อหิน
"Field Repair"
First Comment!
Oh i hate these, can't you write something after the comment, even if its only to tell me " First Comment! (YOU SUCK!)" I rely on comments for feedback. So please let me know if you enjoyed the video or not. That kinda thing makes me happy :)
Anyone make flintlock out of titanium?
One things for sure, that is not going to be a waterproof frizzen ! Why not just case harden the frizzen properly ? It seems completely wrong to use HSS here, and why would the old frizzen become brittle if it was quenched from red hot in the first place ?
+Englishman French
I am going to have to strongly disagree with you. If you read the intro it explains all the questions asked. Not all frizzens are made equal. If the steel is low quality you will be having to case harden it every 100 shots or so. Case hardening only hardens the very surface of the steel. By fitting a face plate, you have enough hardened steel to keep sparking for thousands of shots. I do also explain about tailoring the fit to the pan to ensure the lock is still spark/ weatherproof. What's more, the Sparks are so hot they will even ignite damp powder. I have been building, shooting and repairing muskets for a couple of decades. This is in my opinion the easiest way to repair a frizzen to obtain the best functionality. You may choose to do yours however you deem fit.
Swallow Forge:- I have to bow to your superior knowledge on crap steel, however, if the frizzen was originally hardened by carburising then it follows that it could not have been made from lead bearing steel, and therefore was incorrectly case hardened in the first place, my experience is only with original made flintlocks, or good quality locks from Siler, if the steel is heated to the correct temperature and for the correct time ,you will get a.020" deep glass hard surface, that is enough to give many hundreds of shots, I would also observe that if the frizzen is so bad it cannot be case hardened it is probably best to throw it away as the other lock parts are also of the wrong material, maybe this is a wall hanger piece and not a shooter, I am sure you know this already! If the job is worth doing, it is worth doing properly it is quicker in the long run.
+Englishman French
If you take a look at, for example brown besses made during the napoleonic era, they vary greatly depending on which gunsmiths made them, despite supposedly being made to the same specifications. This repair is one that I have seen on quite a few originals at the Royal armours and the Tower of london armoires. In fact some frizzen a jade the body forged out of wrought iron with a high carbon steel face either forged welded or brazed onto it. So this is just my take on what gunsmiths have been doing for hundreds of years. If you don't like it then do something else. It's just that many modern reproductions have poorly made frizzens and this is a far cheaper and easier fix than replacing and/ or case hardening. Plus the results are exceptional. My personal opinion is that if you have to case harden the frizzen the steel is not of a high enough quality in the first place. Again if you look at some of the museum originals. The frizzens have been worn down to only a few MM thick. As the steel was hardened all the way through.
The reason that case hardening is used on the frizzen, and other parts, is not for cheapness, but because case hardening gives the ideal combination of toughness(the core) and hardness, (the skin/surface), I find that a full depth case harden requires the area round the pivot screw to be softened(tempered)or it can snap due to being brittle. Obviously flintlocks made in the 18 th century were made from whatever steel that was available and a fire weld of hardenable steel on to a softer, non hardenable frizzen would be an obvious choice as is done on the cutting iron of a wood plane, once again, you have very hard brittle cutting edge welded by fire weld, to a softer, tough backing.
I would be interested to know where your inferior steel modern guns were made, all the repros I have handled have been of first class materials.
+Englishman French
Did you actually read any of the bullet points on the video. For example the one about a graduated temper to prevent the body of the frizzen becoming brittle? Or the one about the origins of unsuitable grade steel frizzens? I seem to have to repeat myself quite a lot here. Look if you don't like the content of the video, move on. I am happy to discuss any aspect of any of my videos. I have given you not only the content but I have spent considerable time explaining my reasons to you. If that's not good enough for you I suggest you find another Channel because at this point you are just coming across as condescending.
make a video of making cocks upper jaw screw i tried heard in india but i didn't find it
Or.....buy a new Frizzen .
You work within your limits buddy.