Flintlock Frizzen Alchemy

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  • Опубликовано: 4 ноя 2020
  • The Chap is determined to refresh the tired, bruised and battered frizzen on his cherished old Baker. Two methods are tried out with varied results.
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Комментарии • 195

  • @maff1975
    @maff1975 3 года назад +40

    7:14 RIP spider 😢

    • @presidentlouis-napoleonbon8889
      @presidentlouis-napoleonbon8889 3 года назад +5

      Saw that moment. Just the moment the chap moved his arm down, the spider was baked. Let's mourn for the dead soul.

    • @ihcfn
      @ihcfn 3 года назад +9

      I saw it too! "hey chap what ya doin'?"...."oh god why?!!!"

    • @joshuachin1850
      @joshuachin1850 3 года назад

      uff spider

  • @marinioaweischo6614
    @marinioaweischo6614 3 года назад +57

    I always found "cherry red" is a little missleading and difficult when the light is to bright or to dark.
    In Ferlach they told us they hardened in the past just on full moon, there was the superstition that springs would last longer. But it makes sense, back then it was the only possibility to harden in the same light conditions.

  • @UKAngryAthiest
    @UKAngryAthiest 3 года назад +26

    When I was an apprentice in the 1970s we would have heated the whole component on firebrick until bright red and then packed it in the carbon powder container completely covered. After an hour or more we would dig it out and clean all the compound off the part then probably repeat the process depending upon how hard it felt when cleaning it. We'd also clean the component before heating it to cherry red and then quenching it.

    • @andrew051968
      @andrew051968 3 года назад +4

      That’s how I was taught as an apprentice in the 1980’s!

    • @elizabethparry3071
      @elizabethparry3071 5 месяцев назад

      Me too. Airtight box, old style.

  • @pickeljarsforhillary102
    @pickeljarsforhillary102 3 года назад +3

    No Frenchmen were harmed in the filming of this episode.
    Richard Sharpe is not pleased.

  • @littlef9304
    @littlef9304 3 года назад +7

    Thank you Chap!! I have this identical problem with a militia musket I picked up. I've been pondering picking up some fire bricks. Now that I've seen someone actually acconplish the hardening. I'll go ahead and get this project underway.

  • @TheWirksworthGunroom
    @TheWirksworthGunroom 3 года назад +5

    A tidy workshop is the sign of a dirty mind!

  • @krockpotbroccoli65
    @krockpotbroccoli65 3 года назад +7

    Good info. My original Brown Bess' frizzen is going to need this treatment after sitting in a cave in Nepal for the better part of two centuries.

  • @jbs5625
    @jbs5625 3 года назад +12

    I have used similar hardening compound and found it needs to be the next colour change hotter than what I would call cherry red. More like yellow. I think the small torch makes it difficult. Thanks for the video

  • @grannypanties4214
    @grannypanties4214 3 года назад +15

    Couple of quick notes, there’s no need to worry about the part cracking from the quench, or point in tempering the screw hole. The frizzen is some flavor of low carbon steel, and not being hardenable there’s no need to temper it, or much of a chance of it cracking in the quench. Also even at its best case hardening is extremely shallow, a better solution is to forge weld a high carbon steel face to an iron or mild steel body, resulting in a hardened face and a ductile, tough body. Obviously that’s not an option in this case but another way that this repair can be achieved, and in the past was, is to rivet a thin piece of high carbon steel to the face of the frizzen, counter bore the holes slightly on the face side so that after upsetting the rivet you can file the face smooth and still have plenty of material to hold the repair in place. Water quenching alloys like 1095 would work well, and being significantly thicker than the case hardening, would last much longer.

    • @jimmyhoffa2816
      @jimmyhoffa2816 3 года назад

      I was thinking the same thing of weld or silver solder a veneir, almost seems easier if theres a limleyhood or redoing it this way. Recarberizing while martensetic without any hammering seems weird, but that said its not something ive done and i could be quite mistaken in my assumptuons

    • @grannypanties4214
      @grannypanties4214 3 года назад +1

      The problem with braising/soldering is the the critical temperature to harden the steel is above the melting point of the braising/soldering material, and the temperature at which even the the silver solder melts is high enough to draw the hardness of the face back until it is more or less unusable.

    • @jimmyhoffa2816
      @jimmyhoffa2816 3 года назад

      @@grannypanties4214 fair i suppose but you can heat treat after the weldment, the higher carbon should exept it well with a weld. With silver solder ir the like ya may be forced into localized heat treatment only. But for most solder work would that really bring up a prehardend sheet to a strong anealing temp in that time frame? Forgive me but i only know what ive read on soldering, ive done alot of metalwork, but solder was never a skill i found that i had to learn lol.

    • @5000rgb
      @5000rgb 3 года назад

      @@grannypanties4214 I can see that happening with a bronze alloy or silver solder, Would tin/lead solder require that much heat?

  • @WojciechP915
    @WojciechP915 3 года назад +19

    When hardening small steel parts, its always worth it to stack up some bricks around it. Gets the parts much hotter faster.

    • @MrRourk
      @MrRourk 3 года назад

      I will 2nd this. What I was shown to do ages ago.

    • @thebotrchap
      @thebotrchap 3 года назад +1

      I need to get some proper foamy refractive bricks to hollow out and build a mini forge.

  • @coltonregal1797
    @coltonregal1797 3 года назад +7

    I made a frizzen out of scrap steel. I hardened it by wrapping it up in leather scraps, sealing it inside a soup can, and then putting the sealed can in a campfire for an hour.

    • @thebotrchap
      @thebotrchap 3 года назад +3

      I’ve seen that method yes

    • @danielkaczynski9702
      @danielkaczynski9702 3 года назад +2

      But did it work?

    • @coltonregal1797
      @coltonregal1797 3 года назад +3

      @@danielkaczynski9702 Yeah, it worked. Not well, mind you, but that's more to do with the fact that the rest of my lock was also made of kludgy scrap metal parts.

    • @elizabethparry3071
      @elizabethparry3071 5 месяцев назад +1

      This would work. Also with bone scraps. The important thing with carbon case hardening is that it is animal carbon, rather than plant-based.

  • @richardelliott9511
    @richardelliott9511 3 года назад +7

    Love your deeper dives into home shop gun repairs and such. Along with the use of very basic tooling, you make it seem as though I could truely do many of these project myself. I am also looking forward to seeing more advanced projects utilizing the lathe.👍

    • @thebotrchap
      @thebotrchap 3 года назад +2

      The aim is indeed to get by with minimal tooling. The new workshop it much airier and better organized but I don’t actually have much more space than I did before.

  • @loganpollock1689
    @loganpollock1689 Год назад +1

    Always a pleasure to watch a Bloke video.

  • @hanktorrance6855
    @hanktorrance6855 3 года назад +1

    Fascinating,thanks for sharing this process

  • @johnhans2929
    @johnhans2929 3 года назад

    I love the new shop.

  • @edwardlove4300
    @edwardlove4300 Год назад

    Your video was very interesting and a great teaching method for future storage in my mind. Thanks Bloke on the Range. 🤗

  • @ProCrastiN8te
    @ProCrastiN8te 3 года назад +2

    Awesome. Great work.

  • @5000rgb
    @5000rgb 3 года назад

    Thanks for showing the first attempt. Also, good job editing. You didn't cut out too much and I didn't need to skip forward.

  • @ditzydoo4378
    @ditzydoo4378 3 года назад +1

    Lovely work Sir Bloke.. ^~^ A dear friend how builds Flintlocks tells me that a trick to increase the protection to the lower Frizzen pivot and lower dog-leg is once clamped with a Bronze C-clamp for heat sync and handling, to encase that area and clamp with potters clay to help shield the lower steel from thermal heating. Also a inexpensive thermal temp gage is best since the temp window for this is so critical. ^_^

  • @terrysmith8714
    @terrysmith8714 3 года назад

    Fantastic video. Thank you. Cheers

  • @jasonb1776
    @jasonb1776 3 года назад +2

    Great video! Thank you for sharing and showing how it is done. Hardening a frizzen is one thing that I have yet to do. I have an original duelling pistol made by Patrick which I need perform a similar process for. However, for a first go and as it's an original, I think I might bottle it and ask an experienced muzzle loading gunsmith to do this one. I will use a repro for my first attempt...the thought of cracking an original frizzen is rather terrifying! :-)

  • @Archaic-Arms
    @Archaic-Arms Год назад

    The original, and best way to harden an iron frizzen is to "pack carburise" it. Essentially you put in a pot filled with charcoal, with a sealed lid, and place it in a fire for several hours. The lack of oxygen results in a high concentration carbon monoxide within the jar, which fuses to the surface of the frizzen, effectively case-hardening it. The difference between this method and others, is that pack carburising creates a thicker "skin" of high-carbon steel (up to 1/16" deep"), resulting in a frizzen that will last a great many shots before it needs to be re-hardened.

  • @magna750
    @magna750 3 года назад +1

    Very cool! I have never seen this done before.

  • @brealistic3542
    @brealistic3542 3 года назад +1

    Great channel !😎

  • @FargoFX
    @FargoFX Год назад

    Brilliant!

  • @grahamgibbs5948
    @grahamgibbs5948 3 года назад

    Thanks for the video.

  • @benmillward7765
    @benmillward7765 3 года назад

    I suppose youtube had to place an ad at exactly the right point at least once? Congrats! Success!

  • @biggles1024
    @biggles1024 3 года назад +8

    So close to 100K subs. Hope you get there soon. Cheers, b.

    • @Tom-lm2tc
      @Tom-lm2tc 3 года назад

      This vid only came out 4 hours ago, how the hell did you comment this 2 days ago

    • @presidentlouis-napoleonbon8889
      @presidentlouis-napoleonbon8889 3 года назад

      Wow, this video was released after they reached 100k subs, but you saw the video before it. How??

  • @capt.martin5169
    @capt.martin5169 Год назад

    nice video! thanks

  • @dp-sr1fd
    @dp-sr1fd 3 года назад +4

    I have re-hardened original frizzens with a compound called Kasenite, this does not require to be heated as long. However I don't think it is available anymore as it is considered dangerous to use. I also brushed any residue of the compound off the frizzen with a wire brush prior to quenching, this ensured there was no barrier between the metal and the water.

    • @thebotrchap
      @thebotrchap 3 года назад +1

      Kasenite appears to have been the gold standard but yeah sadly now gone. TOW claim that this is the successor product.

    • @donaldasayers
      @donaldasayers 3 года назад +2

      @@thebotrchap "Kasenit." MSDS here: www.industrydocuments.ucsf.edu/tobacco/docs/#id=gjpw0063
      In the old days powdered charcoal, chopped leather bits and all sorts of organic stuff was used for case hardening.

    • @webtoedman
      @webtoedman 3 года назад +1

      @@thebotrchap Potassium ferricyanide is still available for developing traditional wet plate photographs. Crush with sodium carbonate (Washing soda), charcoal and a little molasses as a binder, and you have an excellent hardening compound.

    • @mfree80286
      @mfree80286 3 года назад

      It's a ferrocyanide compound, sodium in this case. Use it around anything acidic and the result will be somewhere between a faint smell of almonds on one extreme, to an extremely long nap... permanent, for that matter.

    • @webtoedman
      @webtoedman 3 года назад

      @@mfree80286 Definitely best done in a well ventilated area, that's for sure.

  • @louislarose6613
    @louislarose6613 3 года назад

    This was Great instruction !

  • @jamesbromstead4949
    @jamesbromstead4949 3 года назад +2

    If at first you don't succeed.... beat on it, yell at it, blame the instructions, call for support, ignore the support, yell and blame some more (with possible beating), re-read the instructions, then do the job correctly. Nah, just beat on it till it breaks (blame it on poor manufacturing) try to return it, or it finally works. There... problem solved! Congrats on the subscriber milestone!

  • @evandaire1449
    @evandaire1449 3 года назад

    Wooo! New video!

  • @CandidZulu
    @CandidZulu 3 года назад +3

    Potassium ferrocyanide (Gelbes blutlaugensaltz) is what gunsmiths use for hardening where Kasenit is unavailable.

    • @thebotrchap
      @thebotrchap 3 года назад

      Good to know!

    • @mfree80286
      @mfree80286 3 года назад +1

      @@thebotrchap If you've read of methods where a part is hardened in an oven with leather scraps, horn/hook shavings, or bloodmeal mixed with iron dust and potash, you're making the ferrocyanide complex in situ and using it in the same moment.

  • @lewisward4359
    @lewisward4359 3 года назад +1

    Very instructional. I think you may need to polish the hole in the frizzen so it moves to the full extent of rotation.

  • @kenny344
    @kenny344 3 года назад +3

    I just picked up a new fancy modern percussion cap rifle in the off chance those pesky red coats come back

  • @charlesarmstrong3131
    @charlesarmstrong3131 3 года назад

    good video

  • @rex8255
    @rex8255 6 дней назад

    It just occurred to me that modern shooters probably, over the years, actually put MORE wear and tear on their flintlocks that most troops did. They would have used them for training, and in battle, for a couple of years. But not decades of uses in reenactments, at the range, etc.

  • @2lefThumbs
    @2lefThumbs 3 года назад +1

    In my (fairly limited) experience of case hardening mild steel with a similar compound, a 2 minute soak is fine. Tempering shouldn't be necessary because the bulk metal doesn't harden, and tempering to "blue" really softens the case. Try some scrap mild steel, test with a file before and after tempering to blue to see what I mean :) Tool steel does need tempering because it hardens all the way through, and becomes brittle - but then again, it doesn't need the case hardening compound👍

  • @ngawch9873
    @ngawch9873 3 года назад +1

    nice vid.

  • @napalmholocaust9093
    @napalmholocaust9093 3 года назад

    Cherry red differs wildly in different light. The point at which you can temper is when a magnet stops sticking. Don't use a rare earth, they stop being magnetic forever when hot, use ferrite.

  • @devmeistersuperprecision4155
    @devmeistersuperprecision4155 8 месяцев назад

    Kasenite is used for case hardening. It contributes carbon to the surface thru migration and then thru heating, converts it to carbide. Tempering reverses some of the carbide increasing ductility. The frisson may be best made from 8620 steel which is then case hardened. Bone casing was done in the day and can be done. It leaves a blue/brown color. I am not sure that the sparks are due to hardened metal. The hardening improves wear. But you may need to make adjustments to the flint itself.
    The second approach looked much better. It would be nice to know if flint on metal depends on a hardened metal chemically.
    BTW Nice Myford lathe in the back ground.

  • @billynomates920
    @billynomates920 10 месяцев назад

    7:14 poor fly! 🦟🔥

  • @butziporsche8646
    @butziporsche8646 Год назад

    Hey, my small flintlock action I purchased from them (casting kit) turned out great and I hardened mine but its spark production is variable. I was going to use Kasenit on it but was wondering if there is any upside to using a case hardening compound?

  • @robbenmitchell7949
    @robbenmitchell7949 3 года назад

    Its called case hardening, you heat it to bright cherry red after you put the carbon on it. Then you heat it bright cherry red again then dunk it. Do it two three times. After you heat it to dull cherry red and cool it. That's called annealing and relieves stress so it don't crack.

  • @ewanhamilton1012
    @ewanhamilton1012 3 года назад

    Just a note, reading through a manual on heat treatment from my father's library: heating the steel beyond approximately 1700° F can cause the steel to develop significant quantities of cementite.
    This can make the piece significantly more brittle and likely to break. Obviously judging a piece's temperature by its color is highly subjective, but essentially the product most of us will use is called Cherry Red for a reason. Dont overheat your piece and quench it immediately or you may ruin it.

  • @marinkhan3066
    @marinkhan3066 3 года назад

    I'm pleased to see that its not only me drink tea from a bucket 😂😂

  • @CathodeRayNipplez
    @CathodeRayNipplez 3 года назад

    Why quench in water and not oil? I thought water quenching makes things brittle?

  • @mryan3123
    @mryan3123 3 года назад

    Good video. So, when will we see you guys doing a "mad minute" with your flintlock?

  •  3 года назад

    Why not use a file to check if the steel is hardened enough?

  • @robertl6196
    @robertl6196 3 года назад

    Didn't know this was a thing.
    Cool.

  • @jason60chev
    @jason60chev 2 года назад

    Did you still temper the frizzen, after the hardening, as you did in your previous method? I have recently purchased a 1766 Flintlock Charleville musket and will probably have to have this done, at some point.....same with my pistol

  • @bobtwobeers6286
    @bobtwobeers6286 3 года назад

    When heating the metal the way to determine of the metal is hat enough. Find a long magnet once the magnet is no longer pulling to the metal is hot enough. I prefer quenching in oil.

  • @justbrowsing8304
    @justbrowsing8304 3 года назад

    kassenite, done the same bringing a replacement frizzen on a bunderbuss into life

  • @chuckaddison5134
    @chuckaddison5134 2 года назад +1

    Did you build your Baker or purchase it? Smooth or rifled bore?

  • @grannypanties4214
    @grannypanties4214 3 года назад

    You could perhaps, in a very controlled environment manage to tin solder a hardened steel face to a mild steel body without over softening the steel face but think about this, case hardened frizzens were traditionally water quenched and not tempered to produce as hard a surface as possible for proper sparking and less wear.

  • @michelguevara151
    @michelguevara151 3 года назад +8

    @10:25 : granted, but what sauce do i use, and which wine goes best with roast frizzon?

    • @pacman10182
      @pacman10182 3 года назад

      @sman7290 you could make bone charcoal as well

    • @BK45AUS
      @BK45AUS 3 года назад +1

      my guess, Pepper spray gravy and a glass of hoppe's

  • @wrxs1781
    @wrxs1781 3 года назад +1

    Good video chap, I have the same problem on one of my flintlocks, smooth bore fowler. Good to know there is a fix out there. Also your Baker reproduction, is it a rifled repro, or a smooth bore.

    • @thebotrchap
      @thebotrchap 3 года назад +1

      Rifled repro with correct number of grooves and twist.

  • @rodneywaldron8462
    @rodneywaldron8462 3 года назад

    Try shaping a piece of 1/32 gauge plate to fit to size and form of frizzen, harden and temper. then fix to frizzen with JB weld. Job done #, no risk of damage to frizzen. When shaping leave a tag on top end to hold when hardening and tempering to be ground of after J B weld sets

  • @jonathanferguson1211
    @jonathanferguson1211 3 года назад

    Looks like that did the trick. It may not be relevant per se, but the frizzen springs on repros seem very weak compared to the originals.

  • @davefellhoelter1343
    @davefellhoelter1343 2 года назад +1

    To The Rescue, JUST IN TIME!
    I was thinking how nice mine would look color Case Hardened? I have a recipe and small parts would be a nice start? next camp fire.

  • @trig
    @trig 3 года назад

    I would have tried the magnet trick for gauging the right temperature during hardening. Also quenching in a bucket of used motor oil will do the trick. Glad you got it to work in the end.

    • @thebotrchap
      @thebotrchap 3 года назад

      I’ve only got fresh motor oil.

    • @trig
      @trig 3 года назад

      @@thebotrchap You could ask your local garage for a pint or two.

    • @thebotrchap
      @thebotrchap 3 года назад +1

      @@trig I might just do that when I get the winter tyres put on the car.

    • @trig
      @trig 3 года назад

      ruclips.net/video/ST3yf-H51Hg/видео.html
      This Old Tony on surface hardening. Very funny and factual.

  • @Tanked41
    @Tanked41 3 года назад

    Hi i noticed the position of your flint , have you tried it the other way . I.e. upside down . It appears to be almost close to 90 degrees to your frizzen ?
    Do you ever get the frizzen bouncing back after pulling the trigger ?
    The angle looks a bit too sharp from the camera angle
    and i can see the frizzen is excessively worn in the strike area.
    If you try your flint upside down and even with a piece of leather under the rear , you can change the angle so its not so direct and it may help you and reduce the wear on the frizzen as well as create a longer point of contact producing more spark .
    Without closer inspection i can’t be sure , just trying to help as
    many have helped myself .
    Cheers 😁👍🏻

  • @alockworkorange7296
    @alockworkorange7296 3 года назад

    U should watch clicksprings video and accient hardening techniques and his handmade files for the antikythera mechanism

  • @ghostinthebox
    @ghostinthebox 3 года назад +2

    I wonder why the directions went with cherry red and not to non-magnetic...
    For hardening knives and tools, we use magnets to determine when the metal has gotten hot enough to harden... although we use oil quenches, and steel that doesn't need carbon to be added so maybe results vary?
    I dont know enough about what kind of steel the frizzen is made out of, nor how hard it needs to get to speak from authority.
    We just use the file method to ensure our steel hardened- a file will skate of hard steel.

    • @thebotrchap
      @thebotrchap 3 года назад +2

      The skating file is still a good tell. I also don’t know enough about metallurgy to get into the chemistry. Some frizzens are also constructed with a hardened strip brazed on the strike surface or even dovetailed in the case of some miquelet locks I’ve seen.

    • @SonsOfLorgar
      @SonsOfLorgar 3 года назад

      Probably because reliable magnets wasn't as commonly availiable even to blacksmiths when the instructions were originally written down.

  • @russellgough7801
    @russellgough7801 3 года назад +1

    Thank you Chap very interesting. I wonder why not to use a harder steel or alloy in the first place? I am guessing historical accuracy? Also I think your 100k milestone (congrats!) may be having an effect on the advert algorithm - I think there were 4 or 5 ads in those 13 minutes!

    • @thebotrchap
      @thebotrchap 3 года назад

      4-5 😳 yeesh

    • @donaldasayers
      @donaldasayers 3 года назад

      The steel needs to be hard on the front for sparks, but tough on the back to support the front. If it were hard all through it would just snap.

    • @bbainter7880
      @bbainter7880 3 года назад

      I have been told by a reputable black powder gunsmith that a lot of the repros do use inferior steel, and on those locks you'll have to go through this process more often.

    • @thebotrchap
      @thebotrchap 3 года назад

      @@bbainter7880 I can believe that

  • @MultiAmeoba
    @MultiAmeoba 2 года назад

    R.I.P bug @ 7:15

  • @gabemando7823
    @gabemando7823 3 года назад

    You can buy replacements parts from the rifle shoppe. However I don’t know how parts compatibility are(seems fine?) and they take a while to ship.

    • @thebotrchap
      @thebotrchap 3 года назад

      I can get replacement parts for the gunsmith who made it in the UK far quicker 😉

  • @RicArmstrong
    @RicArmstrong 3 года назад +4

    I was thinking about getting a flintlock. Since I live in the Appalachian mountains of America, I might go with a Kentucky rifle.

    • @thebotrchap
      @thebotrchap 3 года назад +3

      DO IT! It’s a whole other aspect of shooting.

    • @bbainter7880
      @bbainter7880 3 года назад

      Check out Jim Kibler rifles. His Southern Mountain type would probably fit the bill nicely.

    • @mryan3123
      @mryan3123 3 года назад

      It's a lot of fun going old school with a flintlock. I've had a .50 Leman Trade Gun for 18 years. A big advantage is when you visit an outdoor range, after two or three shots the place tends to empty out because of the smoke. 😉Another advantage, depending upon where you are, is the extended hunting seasons for muzzleloading firearms.

  • @HypocriticYT
    @HypocriticYT 3 года назад

    may want to case harden the sear too as repros tend to be soft. The frizzen should not be able to be hardened being low carbon, the case hardening leaves a hard exterior over a softer interior for resilience. You can throw the frizzen into the case hardening, wont hurt getting it covered in it. All ready for Waterloo now!!

  • @JosipRadnik1
    @JosipRadnik1 3 года назад +12

    as the good old pirates used to say: "take care of your frizzen or you might end up in prison"

    • @ralphwatten2426
      @ralphwatten2426 3 года назад +1

      Argh Captain, wise words, wise words they are. Argh!

    • @sirius2a253
      @sirius2a253 3 года назад +3

      Get yer hands off me booty

    • @sirius2a253
      @sirius2a253 3 года назад +2

      Sorry..

    • @JosipRadnik1
      @JosipRadnik1 3 года назад

      @@ralphwatten2426
      "Jolly well brothers of the coast! Let us keep that iron dry and sparky for there is plenty of loot and plunder waiting for us - and naked mermaids, suffering from lonelyness and aphrodities"
      (whisper) I bet they'll never find out that in reality I am a landlocked peasant who's feet have never been above anything else than dry soil....

    • @ralphwatten2426
      @ralphwatten2426 3 года назад

      @@JosipRadnik1 Aye, all that is true buccaneer except I fear the mermaids have turned into manatees.

  • @jacksonperkins775
    @jacksonperkins775 3 года назад

    what is that lathe behind you at 8:07, that size is ideal!

    • @thebotrchap
      @thebotrchap 3 года назад

      Myford ML7. Great little big lathe when space is an issue. Plenty of accessories and parts are still being made for them and an active user community out there on the net.

  • @presidentlouis-napoleonbon8889
    @presidentlouis-napoleonbon8889 3 года назад +1

    Hmmm, very interesting that the chap called it 'a very short video', only to find out it is 13 minutes long :)

    • @thebotrchap
      @thebotrchap 3 года назад

      Half the length of the ones I’ve done lately 😉

  • @joelvca
    @joelvca 3 года назад

    In the final two tests, is it that the hammer (frizzen) failed to snap open fully, or was it actually rebounding?

    • @thebotrchap
      @thebotrchap 3 года назад

      Didn’t fully snap open

    • @charleslamica5123
      @charleslamica5123 3 года назад

      The reason your frizzen didn't fully snap open was because your flint was way too far forward in the jaws of the hammer. Just before you did the test firing I wanted to scream, "The flint's too far forward! Fix it!"

  • @509Gman
    @509Gman 3 года назад

    I need to do this for my Brown Bess (also have to figure out why it hangs up on half cock if I don’t yank the trigger as hard as I can)
    If it did crack, would you just have a new frizzen sent to you or would you need to send your whole lock to the smith to have it fitted?

    • @thebotrchap
      @thebotrchap 3 года назад +1

      In this case I would have volunteered to send the lock since they are bespoke gunsmiths. I do have a frizzen coming from The Rifle Shoppe for another defarbing project on a San Marco replica French 1777, that’s going to be a “fitting from scratch” job.
      For your half-cock problem you could try a new mainspring to make the tumbler turn faster, it worked for me on a Snider with the same issue. Another solution would be to add a radius to the external tip of the half-cock notch to help the sear ride over it.

  • @KathrynLiz1
    @KathrynLiz1 3 года назад +1

    The longer you toast it the deeper the case...up to about 15 minutes... beyond that it's a law of diminishing returns. That flint needs knapping, do you have a tool for that?

    • @thebotrchap
      @thebotrchap 3 года назад

      Not yet

    • @KathrynLiz1
      @KathrynLiz1 3 года назад

      @@thebotrchap Easy to make... a bit of 1/4" (6mm) brass rod with a tiny lip, or reduced portion, turned on the end... about .5mm (1/32") deep and wide. With the lock at half cock, engage the tool with the edge of the flint and tap it with something ... I use the ball on my ball starter...and it will chip off tiny spalls from the flint.... progress across the width of the flint and VOILA! a flint that works like a new one....sometimes better. Takes less than a minute, and gives a flint a new lease of life,,,they can be hard to find these days, and not cheap... :-)

  • @fifemaster100
    @fifemaster100 3 года назад

    RIP that spider at 7:15

  • @PapaSchultz74
    @PapaSchultz74 3 года назад

    I imagine back in the days this kind of guns where made they where hardening it by rubbing the hot red metal from the forge with a bull's horn, just like for swords

  • @shawnc1936
    @shawnc1936 3 года назад

    Is there a reason they aren’t just through hardened?

    • @thebotrchap
      @thebotrchap 3 года назад

      I’m guessing that initially they didn’t have the metallurgical skill to do it and only hardened the essential surface.

    • @BlokeontheRange
      @BlokeontheRange  3 года назад

      Also you ideally need something tougher (more ductile) backing up the hard surface or the whole frizzen will be brittle and risk breaking off.

    • @shawnc1936
      @shawnc1936 3 года назад

      @@BlokeontheRange I could see historically. But our current knowledge of metallurgy let’s us have a hard steel that’s also very tough. I’d be curious on the actual hardness of the through thickness once this is done. Maybe I’ll have to find one and test it lol.

  • @htomerif
    @htomerif 3 года назад +1

    Interesting. That compound doesn't seem to work especially well. I've made knives of mild steel before and case hardened them the old fashioned way: put the piece of steel in a can or pipe filled with seed hulls and bone meal, seal it up (with a hole in it) and leave it in the hottest part of a fireplace for a few hours, then quench it in oil. The knives keep an edge with years of sharpening. I wonder if that would work for a frizzen? Its certainly smaller and easier to deal with than a knife.
    For the technical reasoning, seed hulls and bone meal mix produce a constant stream of carbon monoxide when heated, carbon monoxide being what actually penetrates the steel. The time the steel is left hot is more or less proportional to the thickness of carbon penetration and consequent thickness of case hardening. Quenching in oil, though oil has a lower specific heat than water, avoids the Leidenfrost effect which actually keeps the steel from cooling as quickly in water. Using a gas torch supplies the steel with a lot of hot oxygen (they universally run lean, hence no smoke) and that hot oxygen actually strips carbon out of the steel.
    Eh, take what I said with a grain of salt. There may be something to case hardening knives that doesn't translate to frizzens.

    • @thebotrchap
      @thebotrchap 3 года назад

      Yeah to be honest I am still a little disappointed

  • @oldman2477
    @oldman2477 3 года назад

    I love how everyone is just talking about the spider 7:14

    • @JohnDoe-fu6zt
      @JohnDoe-fu6zt 3 года назад

      I'm not talking about the spider. Not even mentioning the spider.

  • @reckless_sniper
    @reckless_sniper 3 года назад +6

    Did a spider just get cooked at 7:15?

    • @thebotrchap
      @thebotrchap 3 года назад +6

      It might just have escaped. We have a LOT of spiders, luckily none are poisonous and if they get too big the cats eat them 😊

    • @pacman10182
      @pacman10182 3 года назад +3

      @@thebotrchap but are they venomous?

    • @thebotrchap
      @thebotrchap 3 года назад +3

      @@pacman10182 Only to flies

    • @Willindor
      @Willindor 3 года назад +3

      @@thebotrchap Well, atleast now the missus can't complain that you never cook dinner

    • @presidentlouis-napoleonbon8889
      @presidentlouis-napoleonbon8889 3 года назад +1

      @@Willindor He knows how to cook spiders :)

  • @uarbor70
    @uarbor70 Год назад

    Unfortunately case hardening does not go very deep at all.

  • @CAPNMAC82
    @CAPNMAC82 3 года назад +1

    Au contraire, votre visage n'est pas horrible!

  • @southronjr1570
    @southronjr1570 3 года назад

    While your second method certainly worked well and I have done a similar procedure myself, I think the reason your first attempt wasn't a success was that you tempered it back too much. The way I temper my frizzen (after doing the similar technique as the second attempt) is to keep a wet paper towel on the striking face of the frizzen while tempering the bottom to a dark straw color and as soon as it reaches that color I submerged the whole frizzen in water.

    • @BlokeontheRange
      @BlokeontheRange  3 года назад

      It’s certainly possible. Good idea to keep the strike face cool 👍

    • @southronjr1570
      @southronjr1570 3 года назад

      @@BlokeontheRange it's funny I ran across this video of yours today, I watched another video about case hardenening a while back and it popped up in my suggestions tonight. If you haven't seen any of his videos, there is a Aussie clock maker/machinist that as a side note to one of his series about ancient tool technology is case hardening. His channel name is Clickspring and if you get a chance, look up his Antikythera fragments #3 video. He shows how to do case hardening using scrap leather as a carbon source mixed with salt and flour to make a paste, apply to the mild steel/iron item entirely in a mud pack and set aside to dry. Once dry, make a pocket from clay to hold and completely seal air out from the metal/carbon pack and heat to bright red and allow to soak in that heat for 20 to 80 minutes. Once soaked in the heat, take from the furnace or forge and quench in brine water to produce case hardened steel from mild steel or iron.

  • @britishmuzzleloaders
    @britishmuzzleloaders 3 года назад +1

    Do you know what this means?..... Baker showdown time!

    • @thebotrchap
      @thebotrchap 3 года назад

      Still need to test it on the range

  • @tomunterwegs1206
    @tomunterwegs1206 3 года назад +1

    Chap, once I've seen a video on Myth Busters where they hardened a hammer. They put in the hammer after heating in used engine oil as far as I remember because there was so much carbon in it.
    Can anyone here with background comment on it? Not sure if im speaking bullocks or not :-/

    • @vinny142
      @vinny142 3 года назад +3

      I'm no expert either but oil has a much higher boiling temperature than water so it can cool down an object a lot faster, it can absorb a lot more heat. If you poor water on a hot piece of metal it just turns to steam at 100 degrees C and steam is a good insulator. But always consult the manual before choosing a quenching liquid!

    • @ghostinthebox
      @ghostinthebox 3 года назад +4

      So, a lot of time, at least in knife, tool, and knife shaped object making, we use oil to quench instead of water.
      Partially this can be to add last second carbon, but more often it is to get a specific max hardness, with various formulas of quench oil.
      But also, oil can be pre-heated to much higher temp than water.
      With 4140 steel for example, a shop favorite is to use peanut oil preheated to 250 to 265 degrees, and quench when the work piece is non-magnetic.
      By using oil, and heated oil we get fewer (but absolutely not zero) cracks and failures in hardening. Also, for the type of hardness we are shooting for, we don't need or especially want a water quench.
      Water quenches can get steel harder, and a deeper hard than oil can, but can be, especially in hands of a newbie, an easier way to crack, warp or otherwise destroy a piece.
      It's important to note that even with an oil quench, tools and knifes still get brittle hard, and except for very rare and odd use cases ( I can't think of any but I'm sure there exists one somewhere) still need to be tempered- losing some hardness but also becoming much less brittle

    • @tomunterwegs1206
      @tomunterwegs1206 3 года назад

      @@ghostinthebox thanks for the insight!

    • @najroe
      @najroe 3 года назад +1

      The Carbon absorption stops at 780 degrees Celcius for all practical purpouses (carbon absorption rate drops of below practical use) which is more or less instant when quenching in oil or water.
      Absorbtion on carburization is in order of 4 hours/1mm at 850 C (66-67HRc hardness to depth of 1mm) on mild steel.
      Oil is SLOWER than water and can be heated (allowing even slower cooling), this means the stresses are reduced-->thougher steel with fewer cracks, the steel as quenched is only marginally softer so tempering is still advisable on most parts.

  • @uarbor70
    @uarbor70 Год назад

    And by the way Sherry red is only about 800 Degrees. I think you'd be better off with an orange heat

  • @grannypanties4214
    @grannypanties4214 3 года назад

    And in finer quality firearms , a tool steel face of significant thickness would be forge welded to the face and eliminate this problem entirely.

  • @oldgeezerproductions
    @oldgeezerproductions 3 года назад

    I wonder why the first part wasn't deleted because the second hardening technique is the only one that will actually work. If you want to READ about all this and more, I invite you to www.geojohn.org/BlackPowder/Musketoon/ShootingTheFlintlock.html By the way, a normal frizzen is made out of mild, low carbon steel that is not heat treatable. This is why the striking surface must be "carburetted" (carbon added with heat and 'Cherry Red' compound) by the process of "case hardening." When mild steel is case hardened, only the very thin outside layer gets hard (and capable of sparking) while the rest of the metal remains soft and tough and so, not being made brittle, it can't crack. The first part of the video is incorrect, it is not necessary to anneal the tail part of the frizzen after hardening, this only risks the hardened face losing temper. Polishing to mirror smoothness is a terrible waste of time.

    • @thebotrchap
      @thebotrchap 3 года назад

      The first part was shown because I was following the instructions as provided with the compound. As you say, it doesn’t work, so it’s important that people know that it doesn’t work.

  • @Greentangle
    @Greentangle 3 года назад

    Fe+O2=Fe3O4

  • @mikehoare6093
    @mikehoare6093 3 года назад

    ye olde rifle shoppe ?

    • @thebotrchap
      @thebotrchap 3 года назад

      Ye olde Peter Dyson of ye olde Englande

    • @mikehoare6093
      @mikehoare6093 3 года назад

      @@thebotrchap, Dyson made baker rifle replicas ?

    • @thebotrchap
      @thebotrchap 3 года назад

      @@mikehoare6093 They still do but special order only. They have proved so popular that they took it off their website to keep the orders down to a manageable level. I talked with Peter last year to ask if they still made them.

    • @mikehoare6093
      @mikehoare6093 3 года назад

      @@thebotrchap I see, it´s quite an endeavor to get hold of a baker rifle replica, that deserves to be called - replica !

    • @thebotrchap
      @thebotrchap 3 года назад

      @@mikehoare6093 Well I guess since it’s a faithful British made Baker perhaps I should call it a “new production Baker”.
      www.peterdyson.co.uk

  • @davidhaviland2919
    @davidhaviland2919 3 года назад

    Just buy a new frizzen. Easy.

  • @halolemon1926
    @halolemon1926 3 года назад

    Hey bloke, I think you lost a little weight, congratulations!

  • @user-qs2yw8ht4q
    @user-qs2yw8ht4q 6 месяцев назад

    Марен ле Буржуа мог продумать не гладкую сторону огнива ,а зубчатую для 100% высекание искры....наверно это изнашеволо бы кремень быстрее...

  • @davidbrennan660
    @davidbrennan660 3 года назад +2

    Thankfully the smoke heads to the workshop had been removed.
    Micro adjustment relocation tool close to vice..... .
    The God of Engineering is an old god who demands sacrifice commonly in salty sexual swear words and when the task is truly difficult, the blood of the Engineer asking for his favour.
    It is his law and our code.

  • @owendigity1581
    @owendigity1581 3 года назад

    That's dumb. Braze on a piece of saw blade.