That was a Bitchen shot, at 220 yards, with that delay! Notice your anticipated reaction to the flash and then boom....hardly any flinch. I do admit, you got a steady hold, and one of the best shots I've ever seen, with a delayed Pyrodex charge.
I bought my first flintlock in July, the only powder in my immediate area was pyrodex and I thought I was just going to have to deal with misfires for a while. That is until I got ahold of some Schuetzen. My god what a difference it makes. It’s like I just figured out there’s more than one gear on a car.
I can't remember what my reasoning was, but I dumped about a half a powder horn worth of black powder into my shop garbage can (home depot bucket) and kinda forgot about it until I was using an angle grinder on some metal and some sparks found it. I was very confused for a second about what just happened and why my shop was instantly full of smoke
When I was much younger I couldn't get real black for my flintlock. I used Pyrodex for main charge and pan. What I did was crush the Pyrodex between to spoons to get it fine enough for the pan. Still wasn't as fast lock time as real black but it usually fired
I remember when I first started with black powder I had a cheap flintlock I bought online and went to my sporting store to get some powder. The man helping me at the store was very confident I could use pyrodex 2f in the barrel and the pan. I trusted him and very quickly learned that the guy had definitely never shot a flintlock in his life.
Been a very occasional blackpowder shooter for thirty years. I have a CVA .50 cal percussion rifle that i like a lot. I am nearing retirement age and getting back into black powder and have ordered a Kibler Woodsrunner rifle kit in .54 cal and have learned so much more than the little i now realized i knew about black powder thanks to you and your efforts. I find your channel full of great information, explained thoroughly and quite entertaining as well. Other than being jealous of the cool places you have to shoot, i'm a city dweller, I think your content is supurb. Thanks for all the time and effort you do to make such great content for us less experiences black powder shooters. Very good stuff indeed!
I remember hunting with my Traditions Deerhunter .50 CAL percussion rifle 30 years ago, I loaded it with Pyrodex powder first day of hunting in November. I went out every weekend and few days during week, good weather, damp weather and in snow flurry weather, my son did same with his same brand type rifle but he loaded with black powder...... We seen does but at end of season we didn't see any good shot on bucks, so at end of season near end of day, we decided to unload. I shot first at a tree and all my rifle did was click click click,,,,,,,,,, then my son shot at same tree with his rifle and he went BANG, from that day on I'll never trust Pyrodex on deer hunting. We had to take my cone off and put a little black powder in the hole to get the Pyrodex to fire. I now only use Pyrodex in cap&ball revolvers for target shooting..........
I'm fairly new to Blackpowder shooting, having shot Percussion-lock and Cap and ball. I just guessed Pyrodex was a "good enough" substitute as that's really the only thing people carry in town. This helped greatly, so, thank you!
When I first shot a muzzleloader at 11 years old, it was my Grandfather's CVA Kentucky Rifle percussion .45 back in 1986 and he was using Pyrodex. When I first got into black powder shooting, that was the gun I used and for a while, I used Pyrodex, but never really cared for it. Eventually once Triple 7 came out I started using it but I think now I only use it in a couple of my guns, one being my CVA Kentucky Rifle, the other my Zoli Zouave musket. I even have a couple of percussion guns here I use Goex FFG in and my .32 Squirrel rifle gets FFFG Goex. The black powder out there now isn't much harder to clean up than the substitutes and as long as everything else works, ignition is as good. I get better accuracy from the black powder from the same guns and I have enough to last me awhile and during the winter I think it's time to start making my own. By the way, those Kibler guns are really nice and I'm having a hard time deciding if I want to eat and stay warm more or get a Kibler. I figure I can always stand to lose a few pounds and I have long underwear and wool blankets.
Very nice, thank you. I don't have any flintlocks (yet), and used Pyrodex for several years when I first started out. Since I used it for cap and ball pistols it worked very well, and I have even used it in metallic cartridge rifles without a problem, although it doesn't perform as well as Swiss 1.5F. Because of this success I was surprised to see all the Real Black Powder guys claim Pyrodex was garbage, but this shows me why--they had problems with it in flintlocks, and never thought to take it any farther than that.
Im pretty much on the same page with you. I never use pyrodex in flint locks, but its all i use in cap locks and brass cartridges. I never had any problems with pyrodex in cap locks or cartridges. In fact, i prefer pyrodex in cap locks and brass cartridges. When i hunt i like to use stuff thats more reliable than flint locks. I think there are a lot of hunters with that mentality.
@@blueduck9409 I don't actually use Pyrodex at all any longer, not because it doesn't work well--it does, at least for my weapons--but Swiss BP gives me significantly better target scores, and has a higher muzzle velocity for better terminal ballistics.
@@davefellhoelter1343 Ive never had any difficulties in any of that with pyrodex. What i noticed with pyrodex is, i get more shots out of a rifle before the bore gets so dirty that reloading is hampered, and i get more shots out of a pound of pyridex than with traditional black, and its much cheaper and has been easier to find than traditional black powder. To be fair, pyrodex is not black powder. To expect it to be black powdet is folly. Ive been using pyrodex for many years now, and other than use in flintlocks, ive never had any problem with it.
@@davefellhoelter1343 The real stuff is definitely much better, especially if you work out a good recipe, but Pyrodex does still work fine if you're igniting it with a percussion cap or centerfire primer.
I tried Pyrodex in 1976 when I was 16 in my .36 caliber TC Seneca… I got over that stuff in a few weeks. I had to drive 54 miles to a gun shop that sold Goex and it was darn sure worth the drive. Another excellent video brother.
I love it when you say how you can't get real blackpowder locally and all the online stores are out and someone says,"Just use Pyrodex with a little real blackpowder first." Did they not read that I said I couldn't find any real blackpowder? If there's no real blackpowder to be had, how am I going to load blackpowder and then Pyrodex?:)
The black powder/pyrodex combo could come in handy for those of us who can't find black powder locally. It's expensive and inconvenient to buy real black powder online, because of the shipping and hazmat fees. Usually it only makes sense if you can buy it in bulk. If you're down to your last half pound of black powder and you haven't got the funds for a bulk order, being able to stretch it out with stuff you can easily find in a local store might be a real advantage. Talking of which, I wonder if simply mixing the two together would work? That would make the loading process a lot simpler.
B's Thanks for the fine video. That's a lovely rifle you were firing. Back powder is hard to get commercialy where I live. Substituting Pyrodex for part of the main charge will help stretch what's available. I'm going to try this.
I did have to do the 5 grains of real back under the main charge of substitute last year when powder is fairly hard to get. It does work if you really need to stretch out a pound of powder, but it's never preferred.
Your experience is the same as mine. 777 works the same. Since black powder is so hard to come by I will use the compound load from time to time. It helps me use up the substitutes and stretches the good stuff out! Great video and great info!
That last shot was fabolous (or however this word id being written) To stay at Your target for so long, while standing without any support... Man, You are trained well !
I have not shot a flintlock yet but I JUST ( today) bought a Traditions flintlock. On the barrel it says " black powder or Pyrodex only ". It did come with a separate measurer for Pyrodex but I have used Pyrodex in my revolvers and it gunk's up my action faster than regular Goex. I have used old 777 pellets in an inline ( 5 shots) but they didn't seem any better than Goex and I still had to swab the bore between shots. Interesting that the barrel itself says Pyrodex is a good substitute. Either way, I'll stick with real BP. Thank you for your videos, I have learned a lot.
When I lived in Massachusetts, my nearest shop was 10 miles away and only carried pyrodex. Had to clean after every 2-3 shots. Now living in Florida, nearest shop is 40 miles away and nearest range is about another 10 miles that allows muzzleloaders. Still going to use goex.
When I was using a lot of Pyrodex, I often had percussion caps fail to ignite the charge in my revolver. Since I switched to BP, those problems are virtually non-existent.
In my experience pyrodex is harder to clean up, more corrosive, and only slightly cheaper than the real stuff, so why bother with it unless it’s the only powder you can get.
When I was getting started, everything I read and everything people said was something along the lines of "substitutes are generally safer to handle" So it made the most sense for a newbie getting started. But Now that ik how to handle a muzzelloader, pyrodex and 777 is all I can really find, I've never gotten the chance to use real bp yet.
This is "Why" I make my own. not hard. I have a hard time making really Fast BP but basically any of mine is better for me than Pyrodex. Think I have it down now.
Exactly that. I have not been able to buy BP on a shelf in 10 years. Pyrodex on the other hand was everywhere till ammopocalypse. The whole reason I watch this chanel. Tired of relying on supply coming from anywhere but myself.
In a previous video of yours, you mentioned the use of graphite to avoid humidity and static electricity and for its conservation, in what proportion it is used and how it is applied, ps. congratulations for your videos and greetings from Chile South America @Everything black power
I just wanted to say thanks again for these videos. I made some black with black willow here in the middle of the USA. Need to do some further testing as my first batch wasn't even milled long enough, but it shot over 100 FPS faster by weight than Schuetzen 2F out of my 50 cal Hawken style rifle. Cleaned easier than Schuetzen too. I have no Swiss to compare it to but plan on getting some once I get my process down!
Loved the video. Im glad to see you do one on pyrodex. How about doing a video on pyrodex in cap locks? Then, maybe another one with pyrodex in brass cartridges?
Man....that was a Kool Shot at the Stake Shoot Win! two strikes and still Split the Stake! Great Goin', Man! that Stake didn't tip over....it jumped off and balanced for a second, then tipped over! Wow! Awesome!
I don’t know if I’m just lucky or what! I have a really really old repro flintlock pistol from Spain. My favorite was Black MZ. It kind of looked like FFG. I ended up using a stone bowl and a 6” stone rod with both ends grounded round. I ground the powder to the consistency of baby powder for the pan. It worked surprisingly well. Once in a while it would give me a surprise hang fire. I’m thinking the flash hole was slightly oversized as every shot there was a burst of flames shooting out the flash hole when the main charge went off. Thanks for the fun and interesting videos!!!!
Love this channel. I don't comment much . I know this video was not about triple seven but I just wanted to say that in my colt repros and my cap lock rifles I love triple seven.i shot a .50 cal last weekend 18 times with no cleaning between shots and when I got home bout 5 min. With warm tap water and it was clean. Never had a rust problem or loading problem and NEVER a misfire in colt repros or any caplock rifle. P.s. I only use fffg maybe that's why I been so lucky
Over the last 40+ years of shooting cap and ball rifles, we have had times where Black Powder was not available. In fact here in Utah back in the 80's our regulations had to be changed to allow Black Powder substitutes to be used during hunting season. With Black Powder being hard to find, I choose to save my FFFF and FFF Black Powder and use Pyrodex when ever it was practical. When I hunted with my Flintlock, I would use 15 grains of FFFF Goex and top it off with 60 grains of Rifle/Pistol Pyrodex. FFFF was used to prime. This worked out very well and shot accurately. I have sense semi retired my Flintlock though so it isn't an issue these days.
Well, you are perfectly right. I personally a big fan of Black MZ and was lucky to stockpile a lot paying $10/lb just before it got discontinued and I am using it in my caplocks and cap&ball with a great success. But it doesn't work in my flintlocks. Which is sucks because Goex/Swiss is unobtainable this days. So I had to start making my own with limited success so far - it goes kinda slow. Still learning, thanks for your work!
The secret to getting your BP to burn fast is twofold. First is good charcoal. Willow works best it seems, although I have been told that pinecones are great too, but I haven't tried them yet. Next is milling time..... the longer the better... I find at least 6 hours is needed, but mills to vary a lot. Then we have granulation process. The factory process is one of hydraulic compression followed by smashing up the 'cakes' and grading them. This is possible at home but does mean that only a small amount of each grade is ,ade out of the basic, usual charge of about a pound of ingredients at a time. The "wet" process gives good results but the powder is now quite as dense as commercial stuff, so has more volume for its weight. For equal results to commercial powder you need to find the volume that is the same weight at the usual volume of commercial powder. Do that and velocities are identical. I find in my revolvers, with their limited chamber volumes, maximum charges of my powder are about 10% down on velocity compared to German Schützen powder..... from 890fps with 200gr conicals down to about 810 with my powder... mind you my stuff is more compressible, so most of that difference can be eliminated. For front-stuffer rifles and shotguns of course there is plenty of room for the extra volume so just up the volumetric charge 10%. As far as I can tell from open air burn speed tests the difference between my powder and commercial is negligible. My granulatiion wetter is IPA and water with about 60% IPA and the "dough" forced through a domestic sieve to yield something close to 3F granulation. A little graphite added aids flow through measure spouts but isn't essential. Keep at it.... there's stuff that can't be written down. Every batch I make seems a bit better than the one before, so there are intangibles operating that are hard to define.
Only speaking to using Black MZ here, but not to contradict Mr. Everything Black Powder in any way. . . Black MZ has worked in my flintlocks all along for at least 3 years, but only with 3Fg in the pan. Black MZ is a good substitute in volume for 2Fg, but production was stopped by Alliant Powder in 2019 (perhaps?). Based on its clean burn and no need for lubes, there is a loose powder substitute brand available which possibly gives similar results: Jim Shockey's Gold (by American Pioneer Powder). Anyway, in the past Black MZ has been a great BP substitute for me for plinking (only with 3F in the pan); a nice aspect to it is, that its residue is totally non-corrosive. And at only 9.95 per pound! - but sadly it hasn't been available for over a year.
You are right about pyrodek, but nowadays I pick up a can anytime I see one in a store. I use it in my cap lock guns..and when the can is empty, I can reuse it for my homemade stuff.
Only reason I can see to use a sub in a flintlock is if the user is having a really hard time finding real black powder (and doesn't want to just make it themselves for whatever reason) and needs to stretch out what little they can find by only using it in small amounts as a priming charge... In that case I'd just say get a caplock, they'll probly be happier using subs with that.
I was grinding up triple 7 bricks when they first started leaning on black powder a.d making it harder to find in the store. Very long lock time but not obnoxiously so. Cleared up with a real BP prime. Dangerously long lock time in wet conditions. All in all i agree with your assessment
Not to mention that real black powder cleans up so much easier.. I do use pyrodex in my revolvers simply because I have it. But I don't buy it. And I'd rather shoot home made black than store bought substitute. If for no other reason than it's simply easier to shoot
Went up to help set up on the 9th at the Rendezvous. Ended up at the Rendezvous on Sunday. Missed it by a day. Don't know why I thought the shoot was on Sunday. thought that would be my church, I guess. Wasn't meant to be. Heard you Guys won the stake shoot, Again. Good Shooting Guys! Congrats on the WIN! Christ bless all of You Fellas! Hawk.
I only had Pyrex at one point and had to prime it with black powder just to get it to go off but that was because all I had was Pyrex powder and abundance, this help ignition and uses less of my really good black powder
I recall watching a video in which a guy made nitrocellulose out of cotton balls. I know you can't use that as a propellant, but maybe you could twist up some nitrated cotton into a thread that could be inserted into the touch hole of a flintlock, and it might work for ignition of pyrodex in a flintlock.
I'm not sure why, but stores don't sell real black powder where I live. I had to order it on line, and I the minimum order was 4 pounds, and then you have to pay hazardous materials fee, so it ended up costing me almost $200 to get my hands on some black powder. I decided to learn how to make my own. It may not be as good as factory stuff, but it's better then the substitutes you can get from the store.
Nowadays looking at powder feels like I'm being robbed. One bottle of pyrodex at my local shop, is 40 dollars. Last I looked online, it was only 21 bucks from natchez... one pack of the pellets, 60 dollars... I believe that's only about 30 on natchez... they dont even have real bp unfortunately. I would like to give business to a local shop, but with the markup they have its almost impossible to support them.
Pyrodex lights well with a cannon fuse in my golf ball cannon. I've used American Pioneer powder in 28 gauge 2 1/2" brass shotgun shells. My flintlocks get black powder.
shooting for 22 years of flintlock i tried them all but always used 4 f in the pan i found the order of hardest to ignite pyrodex rs would hardly go off in my cap lock then pyro P then triple 7 2 f then triple 7 3f if you use a substitutes triple 7 is the way to go easier to clean and goes off at a lower temperature than pyrodex the triple 7 loading procedure for a flint gun in to put a little priming powder 5gr max down first hope this helps
I use 2f Triple 7. The big thing is get a good touch hole. I like the one that is a Allen wrench. I use 4f in the pan. I don't have any problems at all.
I once couldn't find Black Powder, I got a can of Pyrodex I couldn't get it to light the main charge in two of my guns. It would light in my 62 musket. The hang fire was about a second and a half to 2 seconds
Yes this is one of those deals were yes you can,but why would you. Or just because you can, doesn't mean you should. Substitutes can and do have its uses. I ended up purchasing me two more test subjects
When I was young, I remember an old cowboy got shot with an arrow. His buddy pushed it through up to the feathers. Went around and removed the arrowhead and carved a notch in the wood. He packed it all with real black powder and lit it on fire. As it flashed he pulled out the arrow. Used more to pack the wound and bandage it. Can you see how well Pyrodex works at that?
When I was young, Shirley McLaine did it for Clint Eastwood in 2 Mules For Sister Sarah . . at 1:34 - ruclips.net/video/XepVeIJtkhIh/видео.htmlttps://ruclips.net/user/sgaming/emoji/7ff574f2/emoji_u1f601.png 😁
Well you may laugh, but it can be amazing how fast a project can take a hard left turn. Bigger than a .45 colt plans has an old and familiar platform to me. I've acquired colt chambering in .45 colt 10" barrel. And it's a contender iffin you know what I mean. I have had this platform in the past with 14" barrels of .35 Remington, .375 JDJ, and dare say it 45-70. One of the spur of the moment let goes, that wished never did. Oh I don't know how but I got it for less than the cost of a conversion.
I'm almost 70 years old. Started muzzle loading a little over 50 years ago. Pyrodex is the only substitute I ever used so can't comment about the newer stuff. I don't get to shoot or hunt much of anything anymore because of health issues. Here are some FYI'S for young shooters that maybe you know but bear repeating. Pyrodex is measured by volumetric equivalent to black powder. Theoretically if you weighed a charge trying to be scientifically precise you could get an over charge. Even in a percussion gun Pyrodex needs a high quality relatively hot cap. Don't waste your money on the cheap Italian ones. CCI and RWS were the best in my experience. Pyrodex is very hygroscopic which means that it draws moisture out of the air, so it's going to rust a bore faster than black powder. When hunting don't leave a charge in the rifle overnight to save money. Shoot it and swab it out with a little black powder solvent. If you're lucky enough to live in the country or on farm like I do you can shoot a fouling shot if you believe that improves accuracy before head to your hunting sight.You might let any neighbors within ear shot know why you're shooting when it's still dark. Don't reload until you get to your hunting sight. If you want to try Pyrodex in a flint lock, see if you can find some photographic flash powder. Mix a small amount with preferably 4F priming powder in your priming powder horn. You can try screening 3F if you don't have any 4F. You might be able to find flash powder at a theatrical or magicians supply or antique photography specialist. I'm sorry I can't remember what percentage of flash powder to mix with your regular priming powder, but it will greatly increase the speed and reliability of your priming charge. I think it also increases the temperature but I'm not positive about that. You'll all have to do some research. Happy hunting boys and girls.
You're supposed to be using 4f black powder in your Frizzen pan even with pyrodex, at least according to the people that I knew about four or five decades ago who used pyrodex. They were regularly using 4f black powder or flash powder as one product was called for the frizzen pan which is what you're supposed to use. I never played with black powder too much but I do understand how it functions and how piratex functions. But everybody that I knew that played with flintlocks even a little bit understood that the replacement powder was not to be used in the pan. It was created only as a replacement for the main charge.
I load 10 grains of 4F GOEX first then 60 grains substitute and GOEX in the pan. Yeah, I'm that guy!🤣 Love your channel! I'm going to try demineralized (nitric acid washed) activated charcoal, but you may have already found one of the best, Cotonelle, which is presumed to use a hydrogen peroxide bleach rather than chlorine dioxide, like most producers.
When I couldn't get black powder I tried pyrodex in my flintlock. Didn't work very well. When I got some black powder I tried black powder in pan and pyrodex for charge. Worked pretty well. Now that I can get black powder I use use pyrodex in my cap and ball revolver to use it up.
About 25 years ago I talked to some guy who had tried to use pyrodex in a flintlock without success. He took it home and used a red-hot pin to discharge it into a block of wood in his basement. He said his wife wasn't happy about the noise.
The only reason I know of to use substitutes is if you aren't cool with making it and no one stocks it near you. Here where I live, none of the shops stock it, but I order 4 at a time online and get it shipped. I've also started tinkering with making mine, but don't have a press yet, so it's only so-so. At some point, I do intend to do some more and I just got a nearly limitless supply of alder!!!
I have by far shot more black powder firearms than modern and I can honestly say I have never once shot pyrodex. My Dad tried it one time in his 1863 Springfield rifled musket and tried working up a load for it and no matter what he tried, he couldn't get it to shoot. I have had friends ask me to help them sight in their deer guns for muzzle loading season and I always can get their guns to shoot better with the real stuff every time
I have an 1863 Springfield and 777 & Pyrodex both shot everytime but with minies the Pyrdex is too slow to pop the skirt but the 777 actually worked great. I was using a 315g Rapine SWC minie. With the heavy 525g minie Pyrodex was better but not great. I haven't tried round balls but those aren't so picky so I bet they'd work fine with everything. With my flintlock was where I had issues with the substitue.
Pyrodex is clearly not a good choice for flintlocks and true black powder enthusiasts. But I find it to be very effective and convenient for percussion weapons, especially cap and ball revolver repros. And the cleanup is so much easier. It's not for purists, but it really works well for some of us. I like the pellets, and I can spend less time loading and more time shooting.
I have used pyrodex in my flintlocks for years with pretty good results but I use black powder as a primer. I have never used black powder with the pyrodex. Reason black powder is more expensive and time consuming to make.
Truth never sucks. I have had way to much experience with pyrodex to want anything to do with that nasty crap, my opinion. Black Powder is corrosive and it takes work to clean but it is easier than pyrodex, and I think it somehow erodes the bore again my opinion! Thanks for the video!
This is a neat presentation! Black powder is hard to get where I live so I process FF powder through a glass and ceramic grinder (made for kitchen application, no spark potential) into an extremely fine dust for the pan and tap my flintlock pistol sideways to fill the touch hole. It works very reliably but I'd love to get my hands on real black powder to see the difference. I also slightly abrade my frizzen to create more sparks and insert the flint upside down for a more aggressive angle. This wears down the flint a bit faster but achieves instant ignition. Anybody else do this?
LMAO. I tried 777 in my flintlock and got exactly the same results. Had to use real blackpowder, 10 grains in the main and prime. Pain in my ass. Even my cap guns are more accurate with BP. I think the 1:66 riflings, reduced recoil and the residual in the barrel is softer contribute to better accuracy. I could be way off. I'm sure some substitute guy here will correct me
Hey, a hits a hit The only way I would consider mixing pyrodex with real black powder is if black powder was extremely hard to get and if I, for some reason, couldn't make it. Rationing is the only real reason to use a mixed powder load imo
I just bought some pyrodex . Running low on real black powder. Now I’m sorry I bought it now . Always heard it was better, cleaner etc…. Want to hunt with my flintlocks this year .
FWIW, as you explained, all the other substitutes will have the same problem as Pyrodex (if not worse) because they're DOT/UN classified as propellants rather than explosives. The only reason we can legally buy and store black powder is because of a specific exemption in BATFE regulations for black powder; it's very, very unlikely that any new substitute that burns like black (for instance, if someone were to resurrect ammonpulver or the "pink powder" based on picric acid that were used in some artillery during the Great War) could receive that exemption (black gets it because it was in very common use before BATFE was formed and their regulations first promulgated). I've seen other videos that seem to demonstrate that the only way to get substitutes to work fairly well in a flinter is to use actual black powder for the priming charge -- but if you can buy FFFFg for the priming, you can probably buy FFFg or FFg for the main charge, so all you might possibly gain by using substitutes is easier cleanup (and cleaning up black powder residue isn't that difficult). So, end conclusion, substitutes are fine for cap or primer ignited reproductions or modern inline muzzle loaders (and they let us buy *something* to shoot from sporting goods stores that don't have a BATFE approved explosives magazine on premises), but they aren't intended for and don't work well in flintlocks, wheellocks, or matchlocks/tinderlocks.
True, though if you can, try making a little of blackpowder of your own, it's pretty simple, even if your end product isn't maybe as nice as Swiss or anything, it'll still ignite better for flintlocks.
I have been shooting muzzleloaders since 1975 and I use Triple 7 in my percussion pistols and my Bedford County rifle and never had a problem. I would use black powder but I can't get it here and Triple 7 is a hell of a lot better than Pyrodex.
The only reason to use black powder+substitute, would be if you have or can get BP substitutes easily, but have a very limited supply of real BP & it would be difficult to get more. This would allow you to get the most out of whatever BP you have available. Otherwise I agree, the loading procedure is just too cumbersome, which also makes it more prone to errors.
Well I never had a problem shooting Pyrodex out of my .45 percussion rifle, or my .44 Confederate Navy revolver. And I never seen a hang fire like that as long as my powder was dry. But I also never shot flintlock rifles or pistols. Knew one guy that did though, and he tended to push the Pyrodex up on the side pan a bit more. Always thought that was strange, but now I understand why he did that. Now I do not shoot with Pyrodex anymore, I’m using real black powder. But I will be changing the bore lube, that I use as this stuff I got sucks as it’s too thin.
Funny how people who are avid Black powder pushers, always put Pyrodex in the damn pan. No no no, Put Pyrodex in the main charge and BP in the pan. Yeah, It didn't fail when you did that. Anyone saying it will not work in a flintlock is wrong. Thanks for the video to prove what i been saying for years.
@@Everythingblackpowder , oh while i have your attention. I'd like to see Pyrodex in a flintlock, with real BP in the pan. Except I'd like to see the shots fired through a chronograph. Pyrodex has claimed for years that it's, "up to 30%" more powerful than Black Powder. Curious.
I can’t get enough good black powder to use, unless I get you to make me a Nice amount of Osage orange black powder .. then I would be set , thanks for all your research
Love how you used muzzle blasts to bleep yourself. That’s quality videography! LOL
Purely coincidence
That was a Bitchen shot, at 220 yards, with that delay!
Notice your anticipated reaction to the flash and then boom....hardly any flinch.
I do admit, you got a steady hold, and one of the best shots I've ever seen, with a delayed Pyrodex charge.
I just like the smell of black powder. Thanks for the video.
I bought my first flintlock in July, the only powder in my immediate area was pyrodex and I thought I was just going to have to deal with misfires for a while. That is until I got ahold of some Schuetzen. My god what a difference it makes. It’s like I just figured out there’s more than one gear on a car.
It’s a game changer
I can't remember what my reasoning was, but I dumped about a half a powder horn worth of black powder into my shop garbage can (home depot bucket) and kinda forgot about it until I was using an angle grinder on some metal and some sparks found it. I was very confused for a second about what just happened and why my shop was instantly full of smoke
Great shot! And thanks for stating all the differences appreciate that. Stay vigilant
When I was much younger I couldn't get real black for my flintlock. I used Pyrodex for main charge and pan. What I did was crush the Pyrodex between to spoons to get it fine enough for the pan. Still wasn't as fast lock time as real black but it usually fired
Love that "usually".
I remember when I first started with black powder I had a cheap flintlock I bought online and went to my sporting store to get some powder. The man helping me at the store was very confident I could use pyrodex 2f in the barrel and the pan. I trusted him and very quickly learned that the guy had definitely never shot a flintlock in his life.
That's why I say,
"Hey man, nice shot"
"A good shot, man"
Been a very occasional blackpowder shooter for thirty years. I have a CVA .50 cal percussion rifle that i like a lot. I am nearing retirement age and getting back into black powder and have ordered a Kibler Woodsrunner rifle kit in .54 cal and have learned so much more than the little i now realized i knew about black powder thanks to you and your efforts. I find your channel full of great information, explained thoroughly and quite entertaining as well. Other than being jealous of the cool places you have to shoot, i'm a city dweller, I think your content is supurb. Thanks for all the time and effort you do to make such great content for us less experiences black powder shooters. Very good stuff indeed!
Thank you very much!
I remember hunting with my Traditions Deerhunter .50 CAL percussion rifle 30 years ago, I loaded it with Pyrodex powder first day of hunting in November. I went out every weekend and few days during week, good weather, damp weather and in snow flurry weather, my son did same with his same brand type rifle but he loaded with black powder......
We seen does but at end of season we didn't see any good shot on bucks, so at end of season near end of day, we decided to unload. I shot first at a tree and all my rifle did was click click click,,,,,,,,,, then my son shot at same tree with his rifle and he went BANG, from that day on I'll never trust Pyrodex on deer hunting. We had to take my cone off and put a little black powder in the hole to get the Pyrodex to fire. I now only use Pyrodex in cap&ball revolvers for target shooting..........
I'm fairly new to Blackpowder shooting, having shot Percussion-lock and Cap and ball. I just guessed Pyrodex was a "good enough" substitute as that's really the only thing people carry in town. This helped greatly, so, thank you!
When I first shot a muzzleloader at 11 years old, it was my Grandfather's CVA Kentucky Rifle percussion .45 back in 1986 and he was using Pyrodex. When I first got into black powder shooting, that was the gun I used and for a while, I used Pyrodex, but never really cared for it. Eventually once Triple 7 came out I started using it but I think now I only use it in a couple of my guns, one being my CVA Kentucky Rifle, the other my Zoli Zouave musket. I even have a couple of percussion guns here I use Goex FFG in and my .32 Squirrel rifle gets FFFG Goex. The black powder out there now isn't much harder to clean up than the substitutes and as long as everything else works, ignition is as good. I get better accuracy from the black powder from the same guns and I have enough to last me awhile and during the winter I think it's time to start making my own. By the way, those Kibler guns are really nice and I'm having a hard time deciding if I want to eat and stay warm more or get a Kibler. I figure I can always stand to lose a few pounds and I have long underwear and wool blankets.
get the Kibler. Worry about food and warmth later. LOL
I hunt squirrel also with a .32 caplock, gonna get a Kibler flinter .32 one of these days.
Hello from one of your subscribers, a fellow Native and 18th Century geek.
Very nice, thank you. I don't have any flintlocks (yet), and used Pyrodex for several years when I first started out. Since I used it for cap and ball pistols it worked very well, and I have even used it in metallic cartridge rifles without a problem, although it doesn't perform as well as Swiss 1.5F. Because of this success I was surprised to see all the Real Black Powder guys claim Pyrodex was garbage, but this shows me why--they had problems with it in flintlocks, and never thought to take it any farther than that.
Im pretty much on the same page with you. I never use pyrodex in flint locks, but its all i use in cap locks and brass cartridges. I never had any problems with pyrodex in cap locks or cartridges. In fact, i prefer pyrodex in cap locks and brass cartridges. When i hunt i like to use stuff thats more reliable than flint locks. I think there are a lot of hunters with that mentality.
@@blueduck9409 I don't actually use Pyrodex at all any longer, not because it doesn't work well--it does, at least for my weapons--but Swiss BP gives me significantly better target scores, and has a higher muzzle velocity for better terminal ballistics.
Hmm? maybe You Think pyrodex worked "very well", as "Did I"? then I made my own BP! WOW what a difference, mostly in reliability, speed with cleaning.
@@davefellhoelter1343 Ive never had any difficulties in any of that with pyrodex. What i noticed with pyrodex is, i get more shots out of a rifle before the bore gets so dirty that reloading is hampered, and i get more shots out of a pound of pyridex than with traditional black, and its much cheaper and has been easier to find than traditional black powder. To be fair, pyrodex is not black powder. To expect it to be black powdet is folly. Ive been using pyrodex for many years now, and other than use in flintlocks, ive never had any problem with it.
@@davefellhoelter1343 The real stuff is definitely much better, especially if you work out a good recipe, but Pyrodex does still work fine if you're igniting it with a percussion cap or centerfire primer.
I tried Pyrodex in 1976 when I was 16 in my .36 caliber TC Seneca… I got over that stuff in a few weeks. I had to drive 54 miles to a gun shop that sold Goex and it was darn sure worth the drive. Another excellent video brother.
Thank you
Great demo, I don't have a flinty and wondered how that would work.
I love it when you say how you can't get real blackpowder locally and all the online stores are out and someone says,"Just use Pyrodex with a little real blackpowder first." Did they not read that I said I couldn't find any real blackpowder? If there's no real blackpowder to be had, how am I going to load blackpowder and then Pyrodex?:)
The black powder/pyrodex combo could come in handy for those of us who can't find black powder locally.
It's expensive and inconvenient to buy real black powder online, because of the shipping and hazmat fees. Usually it only makes sense if you can buy it in bulk.
If you're down to your last half pound of black powder and you haven't got the funds for a bulk order, being able to stretch it out with stuff you can easily find in a local store might be a real advantage.
Talking of which, I wonder if simply mixing the two together would work?
That would make the loading process a lot simpler.
Mixing them might work enough to make the hang fire tolerable.
B's
Thanks for the fine video. That's a lovely rifle you were firing. Back powder is hard to get commercialy where I live. Substituting Pyrodex for part of the main charge will help stretch what's available. I'm going to try this.
I did have to do the 5 grains of real back under the main charge of substitute last year when powder is fairly hard to get. It does work if you really need to stretch out a pound of powder, but it's never preferred.
Your experience is the same as mine. 777 works the same. Since black powder is so hard to come by I will use the compound load from time to time. It helps me use up the substitutes and stretches the good stuff out! Great video and great info!
That last shot was fabolous (or however this word id being written)
To stay at Your target for so long, while standing without any support...
Man, You are trained well !
Thank you. I practice a lot
I've learned something today - thank you!
Happy to help
Great video
Thank you
I appreciate all your videos I'm a newbie and about to buy something soon you sure save me a lot of time
Good Shot, Good info! Have a good weekend! Mike.
Thanks Mike
I have not shot a flintlock yet but I JUST ( today) bought a Traditions flintlock. On the barrel it says " black powder or Pyrodex only ". It did come with a separate measurer for Pyrodex but I have used Pyrodex in my revolvers and it gunk's up my action faster than regular Goex. I have used old 777 pellets in an inline ( 5 shots) but they didn't seem any better than Goex and I still had to swab the bore between shots. Interesting that the barrel itself says Pyrodex is a good substitute. Either way, I'll stick with real BP. Thank you for your videos, I have learned a lot.
Excellent video!
Thank you
When I lived in Massachusetts, my nearest shop was 10 miles away and only carried pyrodex. Had to clean after every 2-3 shots. Now living in Florida, nearest shop is 40 miles away and nearest range is about another 10 miles that allows muzzleloaders. Still going to use goex.
I used to prime the pan with black powder, and charge it with pyrodex. It generally works fine.
When I was using a lot of Pyrodex, I often had percussion caps fail to ignite the charge in my revolver. Since I switched to BP, those problems are virtually non-existent.
Another awesome video!
Thank you
Love that flinter
In my experience pyrodex is harder to clean up, more corrosive, and only slightly cheaper than the real stuff, so why bother with it unless it’s the only powder you can get.
When I was getting started, everything I read and everything people said was something along the lines of "substitutes are generally safer to handle"
So it made the most sense for a newbie getting started.
But Now that ik how to handle a muzzelloader, pyrodex and 777 is all I can really find, I've never gotten the chance to use real bp yet.
This is "Why" I make my own. not hard. I have a hard time making really Fast BP but basically any of mine is better for me than Pyrodex.
Think I have it down now.
I concur I only use the Holy Black as it works perfectly.
Exactly that. I have not been able to buy BP on a shelf in 10 years. Pyrodex on the other hand was everywhere till ammopocalypse. The whole reason I watch this chanel. Tired of relying on supply coming from anywhere but myself.
@@coldandaloof7166 I agree, I mail order it and keep a lot around, but I can make my own just have to use willow for charcoal
One of your best videos. Which I could find Holy Black.
Informative. I always wondered about that. Thanks.
In a previous video of yours, you mentioned the use of graphite to avoid humidity and static electricity and for its conservation, in what proportion it is used and how it is applied, ps. congratulations for your videos and greetings from Chile South America
@Everything black power
The makers of black coat it with graphite. If your the maker after graining it you tumble with a very small amount.
I just wanted to say thanks again for these videos. I made some black with black willow here in the middle of the USA. Need to do some further testing as my first batch wasn't even milled long enough, but it shot over 100 FPS faster by weight than Schuetzen 2F out of my 50 cal Hawken style rifle. Cleaned easier than Schuetzen too. I have no Swiss to compare it to but plan on getting some once I get my process down!
Glad to hear it!
Loved the video. Im glad to see you do one on pyrodex. How about doing a video on pyrodex in cap locks? Then, maybe another one with pyrodex in brass cartridges?
Man....that was a Kool Shot at the Stake Shoot Win!
two strikes and still Split the Stake! Great Goin', Man!
that Stake didn't tip over....it jumped off and balanced for a second, then tipped over! Wow! Awesome!
I don’t know if I’m just lucky or what! I have a really really old repro flintlock pistol from Spain. My favorite was Black MZ. It kind of looked like FFG. I ended up using a stone bowl and a 6” stone rod with both ends grounded round. I ground the powder to the consistency of baby powder for the pan. It worked surprisingly well. Once in a while it would give me a surprise hang fire. I’m thinking the flash hole was slightly oversized as every shot there was a burst of flames shooting out the flash hole when the main charge went off. Thanks for the fun and interesting videos!!!!
Glad to hear it
Love this channel. I don't comment much . I know this video was not about triple seven but I just wanted to say that in my colt repros and my cap lock rifles I love triple seven.i shot a .50 cal last weekend 18 times with no cleaning between shots and when I got home bout 5 min. With warm tap water and it was clean. Never had a rust problem or loading problem and NEVER a misfire in colt repros or any caplock rifle. P.s. I only use fffg maybe that's why I been so lucky
Over the last 40+ years of shooting cap and ball rifles, we have had times where Black Powder was not available.
In fact here in Utah back in the 80's our regulations had to be changed to allow Black Powder substitutes to be used during hunting season.
With Black Powder being hard to find, I choose to save my FFFF and FFF Black Powder and use Pyrodex when ever it was practical.
When I hunted with my Flintlock, I would use 15 grains of FFFF Goex and top it off with 60 grains of Rifle/Pistol Pyrodex.
FFFF was used to prime. This worked out very well and shot accurately. I have sense semi retired my Flintlock though so it isn't an issue these days.
Loving your presentations Please keep them coming- Doris
Thank you
The best use for pyrodex that i have personally found is in black powder type shotshells with 209 primer ignition.
Great video man! Plus a great shot😂
Thank you
Well, you are perfectly right. I personally a big fan of Black MZ and was lucky to stockpile a lot paying $10/lb just before it got discontinued and I am using it in my caplocks and cap&ball with a great success. But it doesn't work in my flintlocks. Which is sucks because Goex/Swiss is unobtainable this days. So I had to start making my own with limited success so far - it goes kinda slow. Still learning, thanks for your work!
My experience the same. No black to be had anywhere near me.
The black MZ does work great in cartridge loads though!
The secret to getting your BP to burn fast is twofold. First is good charcoal. Willow works best it seems, although I have been told that pinecones are great too, but I haven't tried them yet. Next is milling time..... the longer the better... I find at least 6 hours is needed, but mills to vary a lot. Then we have granulation process. The factory process is one of hydraulic compression followed by smashing up the 'cakes' and grading them. This is possible at home but does mean that only a small amount of each grade is ,ade out of the basic, usual charge of about a pound of ingredients at a time. The "wet" process gives good results but the powder is now quite as dense as commercial stuff, so has more volume for its weight. For equal results to commercial powder you need to find the volume that is the same weight at the usual volume of commercial powder. Do that and velocities are identical. I find in my revolvers, with their limited chamber volumes, maximum charges of my powder are about 10% down on velocity compared to German Schützen powder..... from 890fps with 200gr conicals down to about 810 with my powder... mind you my stuff is more compressible, so most of that difference can be eliminated. For front-stuffer rifles and shotguns of course there is plenty of room for the extra volume so just up the volumetric charge 10%. As far as I can tell from open air burn speed tests the difference between my powder and commercial is negligible. My granulatiion wetter is IPA and water with about 60% IPA and the "dough" forced through a domestic sieve to yield something close to 3F granulation. A little graphite added aids flow through measure spouts but isn't essential.
Keep at it.... there's stuff that can't be written down. Every batch I make seems a bit better than the one before, so there are intangibles operating that are hard to define.
Only speaking to using Black MZ here, but not to contradict Mr. Everything Black Powder in any way. . . Black MZ has worked in my flintlocks all along for at least 3 years, but only with 3Fg in the pan. Black MZ is a good substitute in volume for 2Fg, but production was stopped by Alliant Powder in 2019 (perhaps?). Based on its clean burn and no need for lubes, there is a loose powder substitute brand available which possibly gives similar results: Jim Shockey's Gold (by American Pioneer Powder). Anyway, in the past Black MZ has been a great BP substitute for me for plinking (only with 3F in the pan); a nice aspect to it is, that its residue is totally non-corrosive. And at only 9.95 per pound! - but sadly it hasn't been available for over a year.
I’ve never tried Black MZ and with all do respected, I don’t plan on it. I suppose I’m a purest. 😉
You are right about pyrodek, but nowadays I pick up a can anytime I see one in a store. I use it in my cap lock guns..and when the can is empty, I can reuse it for my homemade stuff.
Good idea
Only reason I can see to use a sub in a flintlock is if the user is having a really hard time finding real black powder (and doesn't want to just make it themselves for whatever reason) and needs to stretch out what little they can find by only using it in small amounts as a priming charge... In that case I'd just say get a caplock, they'll probly be happier using subs with that.
I was grinding up triple 7 bricks when they first started leaning on black powder a.d making it harder to find in the store. Very long lock time but not obnoxiously so. Cleared up with a real BP prime. Dangerously long lock time in wet conditions.
All in all i agree with your assessment
Origonal Brown bess btw. Large flash hole helps
Not to mention that real black powder cleans up so much easier..
I do use pyrodex in my revolvers simply because I have it. But I don't buy it. And I'd rather shoot home made black than store bought substitute. If for no other reason than it's simply easier to shoot
Went up to help set up on the 9th at the Rendezvous. Ended up at the Rendezvous on Sunday. Missed it by a day.
Don't know why I thought the shoot was on Sunday. thought that would be my church, I guess. Wasn't meant to be.
Heard you Guys won the stake shoot, Again. Good Shooting Guys! Congrats on the WIN!
Christ bless all of You Fellas!
Hawk.
I only had Pyrex at one point and had to prime it with black powder just to get it to go off but that was because all I had was Pyrex powder and abundance, this help ignition and uses less of my really good black powder
I've seen substitutes fail in sidelock percussion guns, now imagine how well they would work in flint locks of lesser quality than a Kibler.
Nice shot.
It was pure luck but I’ll take it just the same.
I recall watching a video in which a guy made nitrocellulose out of cotton balls. I know you can't use that as a propellant, but maybe you could twist up some nitrated cotton into a thread that could be inserted into the touch hole of a flintlock, and it might work for ignition of pyrodex in a flintlock.
I'm not sure why, but stores don't sell real black powder where I live. I had to order it on line, and I the minimum order was 4 pounds, and then you have to pay hazardous materials fee, so it ended up costing me almost $200 to get my hands on some black powder. I decided to learn how to make my own. It may not be as good as factory stuff, but it's better then the substitutes you can get from the store.
Good idea.
Agree totally.
Nowadays looking at powder feels like I'm being robbed.
One bottle of pyrodex at my local shop, is 40 dollars. Last I looked online, it was only 21 bucks from natchez...
one pack of the pellets, 60 dollars... I believe that's only about 30 on natchez... they dont even have real bp unfortunately. I would like to give business to a local shop, but with the markup they have its almost impossible to support them.
I remember when a can of pyrodex cost less than $10. Imagine how that makes me feel. .... OLD!
A big part of it is the shipping rates now, but agree its ridiculous. I have not been able to get #10 perc caps for a long time.
Not to mention natchez is a phishing scam.
Pyrodex lights well with a cannon fuse in my golf ball cannon. I've used American Pioneer powder in 28 gauge 2 1/2" brass shotgun shells. My flintlocks get black powder.
shooting for 22 years of flintlock i tried them all but always used 4 f in the pan i found the order of hardest to ignite pyrodex rs would hardly go off in my cap lock then pyro P then triple 7 2 f then triple 7 3f if you use a substitutes triple 7 is the way to go easier to clean and goes off at a lower temperature than pyrodex the triple 7 loading procedure for a flint gun in to put a little priming powder 5gr max down first hope this helps
I use 2f Triple 7. The big thing is get a good touch hole. I like the one that is a Allen wrench. I use 4f in the pan. I don't have any problems at all.
I wonder if firecracker (flash) powder would work for priming? It's certainly easier to buy hundreds of firecrackers than a pound of black powder.
I once couldn't find Black Powder, I got a can of Pyrodex I couldn't get it to light the main charge in two of my guns. It would light in my 62 musket. The hang fire was about a second and a half to 2 seconds
I love a bit of PYRODEX Rs in my percussion shotgun , hard word with a flint lock
Yes this is one of those deals were yes you can,but why would you. Or just because you can, doesn't mean you should. Substitutes can and do have its uses.
I ended up purchasing me two more test subjects
Wow I thought I was doing my Flintlock wrong! So I need to get some real BP!!
When I was young, I remember an old cowboy got shot with an arrow. His buddy pushed it through up to the feathers. Went around and removed the arrowhead and carved a notch in the wood. He packed it all with real black powder and lit it on fire. As it flashed he pulled out the arrow. Used more to pack the wound and bandage it. Can you see how well Pyrodex works at that?
When I was young, Shirley McLaine did it for Clint Eastwood in 2 Mules For Sister Sarah . . at 1:34 - ruclips.net/video/XepVeIJtkhIh/видео.htmlttps://ruclips.net/user/sgaming/emoji/7ff574f2/emoji_u1f601.png 😁
@@rogerlinscott3224 How did you find that? That was it! Thanks. Now all we need is a volunteer to try it with Pyrodex.
Well you may laugh, but it can be amazing how fast a project can take a hard left turn. Bigger than a .45 colt plans has an old and familiar platform to me. I've acquired colt chambering in .45 colt 10" barrel. And it's a contender iffin you know what I mean. I have had this platform in the past with 14" barrels of .35 Remington, .375 JDJ, and dare say it 45-70. One of the spur of the moment let goes, that wished never did. Oh I don't know how but I got it for less than the cost of a conversion.
Hilarious. Last shot was prime!
“…then go make your own da#n video.” Subbd
Thank you
I'm almost 70 years old. Started muzzle loading a little over 50 years ago. Pyrodex is the only substitute I ever used so can't comment about the newer stuff. I don't get to shoot or hunt much of anything anymore because of health issues.
Here are some FYI'S for young shooters that maybe you know but bear repeating. Pyrodex is measured by volumetric equivalent to black powder. Theoretically if you weighed a charge trying to be scientifically precise you could get an over charge. Even in a percussion gun Pyrodex needs a high quality relatively hot cap. Don't waste your money on the cheap Italian ones. CCI and RWS were the best in my experience. Pyrodex is very hygroscopic which means that it draws moisture out of the air, so it's going to rust a bore faster than black powder. When hunting don't leave a charge in the rifle overnight to save money. Shoot it and swab it out with a little black powder solvent. If you're lucky enough to live in the country or on farm like I do you can shoot a fouling shot if you believe that improves accuracy before head to your hunting sight.You might let any neighbors within ear shot know why you're shooting when it's still dark. Don't reload until you get to your hunting sight.
If you want to try Pyrodex in a flint lock, see if you can find some photographic flash powder. Mix a small amount with preferably 4F priming powder in your priming powder horn. You can try screening 3F if you don't have any 4F. You might be able to find flash powder at a theatrical or magicians supply or antique photography specialist. I'm sorry I can't remember what percentage of flash powder to mix with your regular priming powder, but it will greatly increase the speed and reliability of your priming charge. I think it also increases the temperature but I'm not positive about that. You'll all have to do some research. Happy hunting boys and girls.
With Triple Seven my hangfire was measured in weeks. Works great in my caplocks but useless in my flintlock rifle and pistol.
Easy to clean up though.
You're supposed to be using 4f black powder in your Frizzen pan even with pyrodex, at least according to the people that I knew about four or five decades ago who used pyrodex. They were regularly using 4f black powder or flash powder as one product was called for the frizzen pan which is what you're supposed to use.
I never played with black powder too much but I do understand how it functions and how piratex functions. But everybody that I knew that played with flintlocks even a little bit understood that the replacement powder was not to be used in the pan. It was created only as a replacement for the main charge.
Right, So for pyrodex to work properly you need real black powder…
Thank you
I load 10 grains of 4F GOEX first then 60 grains substitute and GOEX in the pan.
Yeah, I'm that guy!🤣
Love your channel! I'm going to try demineralized (nitric acid washed) activated charcoal, but you may have already found one of the best, Cotonelle, which is presumed to use a hydrogen peroxide bleach rather than chlorine dioxide, like most producers.
Advertising slogan: “Pyrodex… it’ll teach you not to flinch!”
😂
When I couldn't get black powder I tried pyrodex in my flintlock. Didn't work very well. When I got some black powder I tried black powder in pan and pyrodex for charge. Worked pretty well. Now that I can get black powder I use use pyrodex in my cap and ball revolver to use it up.
I believe that's the first time I have seen a hang fire SO bad you had time to say "hang fire" and the shot still hadn't gone off 😂
Good info I like it
Thank you
About 25 years ago I talked to some guy who had tried to use pyrodex in a flintlock without success. He took it home and used a red-hot pin to discharge it into a block of wood in his basement. He said his wife wasn't happy about the noise.
The only reason I know of to use substitutes is if you aren't cool with making it and no one stocks it near you. Here where I live, none of the shops stock it, but I order 4 at a time online and get it shipped. I've also started tinkering with making mine, but don't have a press yet, so it's only so-so. At some point, I do intend to do some more and I just got a nearly limitless supply of alder!!!
Great channel!!!
Thank you
I have by far shot more black powder firearms than modern and I can honestly say I have never once shot pyrodex. My Dad tried it one time in his 1863 Springfield rifled musket and tried working up a load for it and no matter what he tried, he couldn't get it to shoot. I have had friends ask me to help them sight in their deer guns for muzzle loading season and I always can get their guns to shoot better with the real stuff every time
I have an 1863 Springfield and 777 & Pyrodex both shot everytime but with minies the Pyrdex is too slow to pop the skirt but the 777 actually worked great. I was using a 315g Rapine SWC minie. With the heavy 525g minie Pyrodex was better but not great. I haven't tried round balls but those aren't so picky so I bet they'd work fine with everything. With my flintlock was where I had issues with the substitue.
Pyrodex is clearly not a good choice for flintlocks and true black powder enthusiasts. But I find it to be very effective and convenient for percussion weapons, especially cap and ball revolver repros. And the cleanup is so much easier. It's not for purists, but it really works well for some of us. I like the pellets, and I can spend less time loading and more time shooting.
I have used pyrodex in my flintlocks for years with pretty good results but I use black powder as a primer. I have never used black powder with the pyrodex. Reason black powder is more expensive and time consuming to make.
Truth never sucks. I have had way to much experience with pyrodex to want anything to do with that nasty crap, my opinion. Black Powder is corrosive and it takes work to clean but it is easier than pyrodex, and I think it somehow erodes the bore again my opinion! Thanks for the video!
This is a neat presentation! Black powder is hard to get where I live so I process FF powder through a glass and ceramic grinder (made for kitchen application, no spark potential) into an extremely fine dust for the pan and tap my flintlock pistol sideways to fill the touch hole. It works very reliably but I'd love to get my hands on real black powder to see the difference. I also slightly abrade my frizzen to create more sparks and insert the flint upside down for a more aggressive angle. This wears down the flint a bit faster but achieves instant ignition. Anybody else do this?
LMAO. I tried 777 in my flintlock and got exactly the same results. Had to use real blackpowder, 10 grains in the main and prime. Pain in my ass. Even my cap guns are more accurate with BP. I think the 1:66 riflings, reduced recoil and the residual in the barrel is softer contribute to better accuracy. I could be way off. I'm sure some substitute guy here will correct me
Hey, a hits a hit
The only way I would consider mixing pyrodex with real black powder is if black powder was extremely hard to get and if I, for some reason, couldn't make it. Rationing is the only real reason to use a mixed powder load imo
I just bought some pyrodex . Running low on real black powder. Now I’m sorry I bought it now . Always heard it was better, cleaner etc…. Want to hunt with my flintlocks this year .
FWIW, as you explained, all the other substitutes will have the same problem as Pyrodex (if not worse) because they're DOT/UN classified as propellants rather than explosives. The only reason we can legally buy and store black powder is because of a specific exemption in BATFE regulations for black powder; it's very, very unlikely that any new substitute that burns like black (for instance, if someone were to resurrect ammonpulver or the "pink powder" based on picric acid that were used in some artillery during the Great War) could receive that exemption (black gets it because it was in very common use before BATFE was formed and their regulations first promulgated).
I've seen other videos that seem to demonstrate that the only way to get substitutes to work fairly well in a flinter is to use actual black powder for the priming charge -- but if you can buy FFFFg for the priming, you can probably buy FFFg or FFg for the main charge, so all you might possibly gain by using substitutes is easier cleanup (and cleaning up black powder residue isn't that difficult).
So, end conclusion, substitutes are fine for cap or primer ignited reproductions or modern inline muzzle loaders (and they let us buy *something* to shoot from sporting goods stores that don't have a BATFE approved explosives magazine on premises), but they aren't intended for and don't work well in flintlocks, wheellocks, or matchlocks/tinderlocks.
Yep
I use the substitutes because it’s what I can get. I prefer the real stuff but a fellers gotta do what a fellers gotta do I reckon.
Yep
True, though if you can, try making a little of blackpowder of your own, it's pretty simple, even if your end product isn't maybe as nice as Swiss or anything, it'll still ignite better for flintlocks.
@@0neDoomedSpaceMarine I’ve definitely been considering that.
Omg! That sucks!…lol. It was hilarious listening to it burn on the outside of the pan and nothing happened.
I have been shooting muzzleloaders since 1975 and I use Triple 7 in my percussion pistols and my Bedford County rifle and never had a problem. I would use black powder but I can't get it here and Triple 7 is a hell of a lot better than Pyrodex.
Everything you said about the synthetic powder is true. Same result with triple 7. F.Y.I.
The only reason to use black powder+substitute, would be if you have or can get BP substitutes easily, but have a very limited supply of real BP & it would be difficult to get more.
This would allow you to get the most out of whatever BP you have available.
Otherwise I agree, the loading procedure is just too cumbersome, which also makes it more prone to errors.
Well I never had a problem shooting Pyrodex out of my .45 percussion rifle, or my .44 Confederate Navy revolver. And I never seen a hang fire like that as long as my powder was dry. But I also never shot flintlock rifles or pistols. Knew one guy that did though, and he tended to push the Pyrodex up on the side pan a bit more. Always thought that was strange, but now I understand why he did that. Now I do not shoot with Pyrodex anymore, I’m using real black powder. But I will be changing the bore lube, that I use as this stuff I got sucks as it’s too thin.
Pyrodex works fine in anything that uses a percussion cap
Your black powder substitute jokes really “trigger” me. 😂
Funny how people who are avid Black powder pushers, always put Pyrodex in the damn pan. No no no, Put Pyrodex in the main charge and BP in the pan. Yeah, It didn't fail when you did that. Anyone saying it will not work in a flintlock is wrong. Thanks for the video to prove what i been saying for years.
The only place I recommend putting Pyrodex is in the trash.
@@Everythingblackpowder , 🤣🤣🤣♾
@@Everythingblackpowder , oh while i have your attention. I'd like to see Pyrodex in a flintlock, with real BP in the pan. Except I'd like to see the shots fired through a chronograph. Pyrodex has claimed for years that it's, "up to 30%" more powerful than Black Powder. Curious.
I can’t get enough good black powder to use, unless I get you to make me a Nice amount of Osage orange black powder .. then I would be set , thanks for all your research