Back in the early 70's , my brother and I , plus friends , started a 95th rifle co reenactment group in England . My brother has since passed , and I am now in Canada , but we did make all of our own equipment , and I have many fond memories of those days . Our "Bakers " were all hand made but had smooth bore barrels for obvious reasons . My kit has long gone , but I remember all hours spent researching and building stuff .
How and who did this process while the troops were on campaign . Thanks for download , decided on a Baker Rifle ( smootbore ) from Derbyshire Arms UK £600 and £65 for bayonet and leather frog . Watching your downloads has inspired me to pull my thumb out and get things moving 👍
Sure, they can be a PITA, but that is the charm about them....as with anything from a by-gone era. You must, however, have great interest in the subject, to go through it.
Very interesting, however, when using Kasenet powder for case hardening on quenching a sharp audible crack should be heard, the quench needs to be immediately the heat source is taken away, I also find it beneficial to lightly anneal the pivot hole area before fitting to avoid having to make a new frizzen when it breaks through the neck of the frizzen. You are obviously enjoying yourself!
Englishman French Great tips. I must say that the sound in the clip doesn't actually resemble the true version. On watching it again, it does sound like a hiss.... The case as applied here has lasted 100s of rounds so if I can get 1000s by bringing the flame right down to the water, then I shall do so. Cheers.
britishmuzzleloaders Glad you liked the tip on hardening, it is a bit of a black art, but once mastered you can apply it to many things. Kasenit is no longer available I am told (so I was glad I layed in a good stock), but there are equivalents, these are said to work as well but are "eco friendly" which usually means they do not work as well. I have got glass hard skins to .030" using this method, I just ground the surface down, testing with a hardness tester to check hardness depth, so if you have narrow sections you will need to temper them down a bit, when you get a crack, as it enters the water at quench, you will know it!. Good luck! And thanks for the excellent videos.
i will say i cheat and use the modern flints they are a lot better when using a flintlock for hunting or a extended course of fire target shoot i have a 54 hawken (Jeremiah Johnson struck me when i first watched it as a kid like it did to pops when he seen it when first came out) that i used to shoot at a local bullseye shoot which was 25 rounds at 100 yards open sight or 200 with scope i was the only person most times with a muzzleloader so for my handicap they gave me 27 rounds but i couldnt clean the bore other than blowing down the muzzle and a patch no water that was put in there as a few fellows didnt like me getting the extra shots while other wanted it to be more fair as at the time i only had a muzzleloader at 14 i got pretty good with that rifle took down a few whitetail too
Outstanding, informative and a credit to the flintlock community. I will now do this process. Bricks and gas from Home Depot, a wire clothes hanger and some cherry red from Midway.
Awesome rifle. Really wish I could pick up a Rifle Shoppe Baker but they are so pricey and I'm not confident enough to take on a full rifle kit. I've been looking at loyalist arms since they seem to be the most competent and better sellers of indian muskets
The issue with all the Indian Bakers is that they are smoothbore and therefore aren't exactly "rifles"... You have to get someone to put a rifled barrel on it for you if you want the true experience. Best of luck in your Baker adventure! Let me know how things go. Cheers.
Thank you yes that's one of the problems I realize that they are smoothbore meaning they aren't really rifles. If only a company like pedersoli that's somewhere in between the indian produced and rifle shoppe produced products could come out with something just as authentic but a little lighter on the wallet without lower quality parts. Alas my only option still might be an indian musket though its not all bad it will still be nice.
Thanks. I've decided that I'll save up and get a Rifle Shoppe kit but have it sent to a good gunsmith familiar with muzzle loaders to have it put together. I was also wondering where you may have picked up your accoutrements from? I've been interested in eventually putting together an impression of a rifleman serving in America during the war of 1812 around the battle of New Orleans in 1815. Thanks again
CullmanCreations It might (will) take a while, but in the end, you will be grateful that you did. Go for the 1800 version, if my opinion matters any, (and I know that it doesn't .. :-) as the stock is much more appealing both in form and function.
+tsmgguy Thank you. Glad you found it interesting. No I don't remove the breech plug when cleaning.. Just dismount the barrel and clean in a bucket of hot soapy water.
Have you ever considered 'pack carburising' the frizzen? From what I can gather, that is what they did historically for military muskets. If done properly, it can case harden up to 1/16", rather than a few thousandths of an inch using modern hardening compounds. I will soon be trying this on a cast, mild steel frizzen.
I have heard of it (albeit in the context of scrap leather wrapping in a crimped tin can, with the whole in the fire). To get things red hot, the torch with MAPP gas seems to work OK.... Interested to hear of your experiments for sure!... and of course, the longevity of your efforts!
Packing the low carbon steel parts in a container that prevented air (oxygen) from contacting ( O2 will oxidize the carbon out of the steel surface, thus defeating the case process) is best used for doing LARGE QUANTITIES of parts. 100’s of frizzens ( or even combinations of different parts) could be packed in the container along with the source of C, and then quenched in water but opening container and quickly dumping into a water quench ( being agitation is good) . And you’d have 100’s of case hardened parts 😁
Now that I have a flintlock firearm, I enjoy watching these instruction videos. Also, you don't hummer and stummer, as you speak. Is it necessary to temper the frizzen, after heating it, in the hardening process? Thanks.
Love your channel! I'm going to have to build a Rifle shoppe Baker now. What is the correct historical finish for a Baker? Was it blued, browned, or polished?
Hi there. That sounds great! I'm sure you'll have a great time making it... I did. As for the finish, the barrel was browned and the lock was case hardened.
Love your channel! Well done indeed sir! One thing to note, however. "Frizzen" is not the proper term. Most evidence points to this word being introduced to the nomenclature after the creation of percussion locks. The correct term is "Hammer".
The geometry of my Pedersoli Brown Bess must be way different than these historical firearms or this baker is just different than the Brown Bess. No flint exists that could sit in my Brown Bess jaws and nearly contact the frizzen. It seems the cock is set much further apart from the frizzen on mine and thus I find it difficult to ever strike higher than maybe half way up the frizzen with the flint. I’ve got to the point of not seating the flint all the way back in the jaws for fear of wearing my frizzen down unevenly.
When a flintlock stops firing, I start by invoking a handful of divinities. The flintlock won't resume firing, but usually I somewhat feel less crossed...
Rob, sorry to be so tardy with my response. Please consider my observations to your otherwise excellent video.. 1. I think that oxy acetylene is too hot and fierce for this job. You need a broad flame to heat the whole surface to cherry red. An oxy acetylene torch would tend to burn a hole in the back of the frizzen if used in the way you suggest. An Oxy Propane torch would be better, but would need to be handled carefully. Most of the time an air aspirated torch is fine.. 2. I always "let down" the tail of the frizzen (the bit where it presses on the spring) and the back end of the pan lid by polishing it and then heating it to blue. Some frizzens are made from medium carbon steel and the quench can leave them pretty hard and brittle. They take a fair bit of shock loading and you dont want them to crack! Even if the steel is low carbon, it never hurts to make sure it hasn't hardened.. Rifle Shoppe frizzens are made (i think..) from EN8 carbon steel which will harden to some extent.
Did you buy the rifle rest you use in your videos or did you make it? If you made it, can direct me to a plan set or video please? I like its simple and flexible design.
Hello, Rob. The few shots in the video appear to show the touch hole on your TRS Baker particulary close to the breech end of the barrel. Is that just a short plug or does the TRS barrel have a patent breech? Thanks, Peter.
Hi there. The hole is behind the face of the breech. By cutting a channel from the centre of the face to the edge, the flash can be well communicated...
britishmuzzleloaders Thanks Rob. The reason I asked is because a friend recently bought a professionally built Rifle Shop Baker here in the UK to now find the breech leaks around the plug threads. Clearly not properly fitted. I was surprised to see the TH so close to the barrel end, more than yours, so I questioned a patent breech. Not sure I like the filing of the plug to that extent. I would expect the barrel and tang to be set back qtr inch further in the stock. Thanks for your videos. There are none better. Peter
On discussion with the Rifle Shoppe during my construction of it, they indicated that feature was by design and in fact aided in keeping the hole clear. They cited some historical examples, although I have never handled an original to compare it.
britishmuzzleloaders Thank you, Rob. That is useful to know. As to keeping the TH clear, new one on me. But does sound as if it is a Rifle Shop decision and not necessarily in the original Ordnance design. But then so many copies are of original commercial and not Ordnance rifles. Best regards, Peter.
This can be more,... maybe 20?... Once the flint is worn down a bit, the edge becomes "thicker" and needs attention more often. Like anything "organic" it is not completely regular and uniform so different results from flint to flint are the norm. Cheers
@@britishmuzzleloaders Yeeeap, just hardened my frizzin with my DYI treatment, got my 1st flash in my pan. Got one flint tuned up better, re worked leather holder
How many hardenings do you find that can of MAP gas will last? Are you able to do more than one frizzen with it, or do you need to buy a new can each time?
britishmuzzleloaders Great to know. I used to own percussion guns exclusively, so this is all new to me. I just re-hardened my first frizzen today, for a smoothbore gun I purchased over two years ago and could never get to spark. I am happy to report that it sparks quite well now even with a dull, used up flint. I have new flints on the way and hope to fire my long overdue first shots with the gun this weekend. Thank you for this excellent instructional video. As it is no longer my only flintlock, this skill will come in handy.
the barrel on this rifle is held in by a screw in the back (generally goes in the wood, or it's a bolt that runs all the way down into the trigger guard); and a couple wedges driven into the forestock, through tenons dovetailed or soldered to the barrel. The survivability of the stock under recoil is directly determined by how closely the barrel and tang are inlet in the stock, as excess movement allows the barrel to slam into the wood, cracking it. Often, gunmakers would pack bee's wax into the inlets, in order to bed the barrel and other parts (beeswax significantly hardens when it's compacted by a hammer); although today, many of us just use epoxy bedding, as it is a bit more durable than wax.
Oil v water? Hardening steel ( must be > approx .7 % carbon) involves bringing temp to what’s called ‘critical temperature’ and quenching at a rate that will turn crystal structure to martensite. Water quenches quick. Oil quenches more slowly. The high C content, the slower it should be quenched. But of course there’s MANY more things to know. Take a course or get degree. This was very good video. It’s only a ‘black art’ if less knowledge is used and more is left to chance. But I agree, early heat treater’s likely relied more on their own learned method that worked for them. Some good, some less so. Great video!
Obviously the frizzens were made of mild steel (< about .4% carbon [C]). Yes, I heard some frizzens had a thin high carbon steel layer welded onto face of frizzens; but this not likely on military. Because case hardening is meant to put C into surface of low carbon steel ( can’t harden low C steel because it lack’s enough C) quenching fast in water will give highest hardness and the quick quenching won’t effect the low carbon body of the frizzen. Many things have been used for the C source in case hardening. Among them, leather scraps. Because animals are mostly C, skin provides a fairly good source for C. “Packing” low carbon steel in airtight container along with source of C packed around the steel, for a long period of time, puts C into surface. After the “packing heat”, the contents must be quickly water quenched as in the video shows for the Casenite process.
The medium used to quench metal in heat treating has no effect “in” the metal itself. Only in the RATE of cooling during quenching. Air quench is slow. Oil quenching is faster. Water quench is fast. Learn more about the how and why of RATE of quenching by learning and studying a phase graph for steel.
Ferrocerium is the alloy used in outdoor firestarter rods. A frizzen with the face made with an insert of this alloy would send showers of sparks with any piece of metal used as a flint.
How would you attach the plate of Ferrocerium to the hammer? If something like this could be made to work, the person reworking these hammers with this material would be a rich man. Perhaps even patent it. Where is the alloy available from, and would flint get it to spark or would you need a piece of steel in place of the flint? Good idea and this, if done correctly, could make you and/or the person attaching this alloy to the hammers wealthy if you could patent the process.
That was really interesting. I was surprised to here what a short life flints have. Do you know how Napoleonic era soldiers handle this type of maintenance? Did soldiers carry half a dozen flints and flint napping tools? Did they repair their own frizzens, or did armourers do it?
+Minute Man The flint will last dozens of rounds easily.. Without knapping, it would only do for 20 or so... That said, it all depends on it's quality and internal makeup. Soldiers carried spare flints but not typically any tools for knapping... There is a technique, although rather hard on the flint whereby the flint is rested upon the fission and then the frizzed is struck on the back, almost like the reverse function of the lock... this will often recondition the edge for a short time.. It is rather violent and the flint risks being broken moreso than with tools... Repair of frizziness (case hardening) would have been done by an armourer in the forge... Cheers.
The need to change flints after 20 or so shots has interesting rate-of-fire and tactical implications for riflemen and musketeers in long, drawn out engagements, such as defence of fixed positions in siege warfare.
Well, you have to do what you have to do... What is another way? I don't know of a purpose built vice for frizzen springs... As for the frizzen, I guess so.... I have had the rifle about three years and shot it pretty consistently... It wasn't sparking with either snapping or replacing the flint,.... so the next step is,........ Sparking wonderfully now.....
I used a small main spring vice on my frizzens. If you want to PM your address, I'll send you one....I have several floating around the shop. My Baker came with an assembled lock from the Rifle Shoppe. Did you assemble your lock from components?
Was the design taken from historical reference or did you design it on your own? I mean it is a great idea. I have been using just a standard knapping hammer for years but I can see where your tool knaps a straighter edge. If I may ask, what are the dimensions ?
+ultor europae Yes, lead was used. I do make mention of that fact at 1:53... :-) I have always used leather and have never had a reason to change. Leather is certainly just as prevalent, historically speaking.
britishmuzzleloaders doh, didnt hear that mentioned ;) by the way, do you know what did they use back in the day in place of "kasenite" to harden the frizzen plate?
ultor europae No problem... :-)... As for hardening, they used a technique with bone charcoal. By encasing the part in charcoal, and the whole in a sealed crucible or container, and "baking" it for a long time, the carbon from the slow decomposition of the charcoal will be imparted into the steel, forming a "case" of hardened metal on the surface... You can do a similar treatment by wrapping the frizzed in scraps of leather and, well, bone meal, in a tin can that has the top folded over and hammered shut to seal it... throw it in the fire for a few hours and you will have a similar result, if a little more rustic. Cheers.
+ultor europae I'm not really up on exactly what it looked like back then. I do know that if you use the scrap leather bit, the process will work... Incidentally, it's the same way they made battleship armour in the 19th century... Harvey Cemented Armour.
On a more serious note: I see the vent smoking when you start replacing the flint. Am I right in assuming that for safety sake you had discharged the rifle?
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, Joe. Thanks for commenting.. I see that you too, are a keen producer of short films... For instance your "Stump Removal 2" video was a work of art... Great cinematography and the editing was beyond reproach. Could've done with a bit of Mozart or Strauss though.
@@britishmuzzleloaders I can almost picture you doing the Nancy Pelosi hand clapping at me, as you sent this fine rebuttal . Since I couldn't listen to this video, I didn't bother to childishly snoop the internet to find out anymore about you or anything else you may have treated your fans with -- and I won't. In fact, pompous, full of themselves people like you, is the reason, you'll not hear another peep from me. You can revel in the fact, yours will be the last comment I make, before disabling them. (Which is right now!) I feel better already.
Back in the early 70's , my brother and I , plus friends , started a 95th rifle co reenactment group in England . My brother has since passed , and I am now in Canada , but we did make all of our own equipment , and I have many fond memories of those days . Our "Bakers " were all hand made but had smooth bore barrels for obvious reasons . My kit has long gone , but I remember all hours spent researching and building stuff .
Hi Chris. That must have been quite an undertaking in those times, without the retail support that is about today... Nicely done.
If your on the west coast or in Alberta, there's quite a few BP clubs that are active. Should you find yourself with the itch again
Thank goodness for percussion caps.
Great video , clear , concise and practical. 👍🇬🇧
Thank you! Glad you found it interesting!
Excellent video! I have never seen so much good information about knapping and frizzen maintenance as this.
Glad it was useful!
Keeping your gun clean before a battle.
That's soldiering.
And the flint in good repair.
Fantastic video. Never knew how this whole process occured
Thank you!
Thank You, Just what I needed. I have just started my flintlock journey
Nice!
How and who did this process while the troops were on campaign . Thanks for download , decided on a Baker Rifle ( smootbore ) from Derbyshire Arms UK £600 and £65 for bayonet and leather frog . Watching your downloads has inspired me to pull my thumb out and get things moving 👍
Rehardening would have been performed by an Armourer. Flint maintenance would be performed by the individual…
I just acquired my first flintlock
Very informative.
Thanks I have a friend has a flintlock that will not spark I will give this try.
great info - thank you - wish you lived nearby.
Randall Grady Whereabouts are you?
Very informative. Pretty much discourages me from ever wanting a flintlock.
Not for everyone.
Sure, they can be a PITA, but that is the charm about them....as with anything from a by-gone era. You must, however, have great interest in the subject, to go through it.
Really good stuff, thanks
You are most welcome!
Very interesting, however, when using Kasenet powder for case hardening on quenching a sharp audible crack should be heard, the quench needs to be immediately the heat source is taken away, I also find it beneficial to lightly anneal the pivot hole area before fitting to avoid having to make a new frizzen when it breaks through the neck of the frizzen. You are obviously enjoying yourself!
Englishman French Great tips. I must say that the sound in the clip doesn't actually resemble the true version. On watching it again, it does sound like a hiss.... The case as applied here has lasted 100s of rounds so if I can get 1000s by bringing the flame right down to the water, then I shall do so. Cheers.
britishmuzzleloaders Glad you liked the tip on hardening, it is a bit of a black art, but once mastered you can apply it to many things. Kasenit is no longer available I am told (so I was glad I layed in a good stock), but there are equivalents, these are said to work as well but are "eco friendly" which usually means they do not work as well. I have got glass hard skins to .030" using this method, I just ground the surface down, testing with a hardness tester to check hardness depth, so if you have narrow sections you will need to temper them down a bit, when you get a crack, as it enters the water at quench, you will know it!. Good luck! And thanks for the excellent videos.
very interesting and informative, thank you.
Glad you enjoyed it! Cheers!
i will say i cheat and use the modern flints they are a lot better when using a flintlock for hunting or a extended course of fire target shoot i have a 54 hawken (Jeremiah Johnson struck me when i first watched it as a kid like it did to pops when he seen it when first came out) that i used to shoot at a local bullseye shoot which was 25 rounds at 100 yards open sight or 200 with scope i was the only person most times with a muzzleloader so for my handicap they gave me 27 rounds but i couldnt clean the bore other than blowing down the muzzle and a patch no water that was put in there as a few fellows didnt like me getting the extra shots while other wanted it to be more fair as at the time i only had a muzzleloader at 14 i got pretty good with that rifle took down a few whitetail too
Outstanding, informative and a credit to the flintlock community. I will now do this process. Bricks and gas from Home Depot, a wire clothes hanger and some cherry red from Midway.
That should just about do it!
Awesome rifle. Really wish I could pick up a Rifle Shoppe Baker but they are so pricey and I'm not confident enough to take on a full rifle kit. I've been looking at loyalist arms since they seem to be the most competent and better sellers of indian muskets
The issue with all the Indian Bakers is that they are smoothbore and therefore aren't exactly "rifles"... You have to get someone to put a rifled barrel on it for you if you want the true experience. Best of luck in your Baker adventure! Let me know how things go. Cheers.
Thank you yes that's one of the problems I realize that they are smoothbore meaning they aren't really rifles. If only a company like pedersoli that's somewhere in between the indian produced and rifle shoppe produced products could come out with something just as authentic but a little lighter on the wallet without lower quality parts. Alas my only option still might be an indian musket though its not all bad it will still be nice.
CullmanCreations There are places that will rebarrel these Indian examples for you. Might be worth checking out. Ask at Loyalist.
Thanks. I've decided that I'll save up and get a Rifle Shoppe kit but have it sent to a good gunsmith familiar with muzzle loaders to have it put together. I was also wondering where you may have picked up your accoutrements from? I've been interested in eventually putting together an impression of a rifleman serving in America during the war of 1812 around the battle of New Orleans in 1815. Thanks again
CullmanCreations It might (will) take a while, but in the end, you will be grateful that you did. Go for the 1800 version, if my opinion matters any, (and I know that it doesn't .. :-) as the stock is much more appealing both in form and function.
As always, a very helpful and informative video!
Do you remove the breech plug when cleaning the barrel of your Baker rifle?
+tsmgguy Thank you. Glad you found it interesting. No I don't remove the breech plug when cleaning.. Just dismount the barrel and clean in a bucket of hot soapy water.
Awesome!
Thanks!
Have you ever considered 'pack carburising' the frizzen? From what I can gather, that is what they did historically for military muskets. If done properly, it can case harden up to 1/16", rather than a few thousandths of an inch using modern hardening compounds. I will soon be trying this on a cast, mild steel frizzen.
I have heard of it (albeit in the context of scrap leather wrapping in a crimped tin can, with the whole in the fire). To get things red hot, the torch with MAPP gas seems to work OK.... Interested to hear of your experiments for sure!... and of course, the longevity of your efforts!
Packing the low carbon steel parts in a container that prevented air (oxygen) from contacting ( O2 will oxidize the carbon out of the steel surface, thus defeating the case process) is best used for doing LARGE QUANTITIES of parts. 100’s of frizzens ( or even combinations of different parts) could be packed in the container along with the source of C, and then quenched in water but opening container and quickly dumping into a water quench ( being agitation is good) . And you’d have 100’s of case hardened parts 😁
Now that I have a flintlock firearm, I enjoy watching these instruction videos. Also, you don't hummer and stummer, as you speak. Is it necessary to temper the frizzen, after heating it, in the hardening process? Thanks.
I do exactly what is in the video....
Love your channel! I'm going to have to build a Rifle shoppe Baker now. What is the correct historical finish for a Baker? Was it blued, browned, or polished?
Hi there. That sounds great! I'm sure you'll have a great time making it... I did. As for the finish, the barrel was browned and the lock was case hardened.
Thanks! Looking forward to more videos!
Love your channel! Well done indeed sir!
One thing to note, however. "Frizzen" is not the proper term. Most evidence points to this word being introduced to the nomenclature after the creation of percussion locks. The correct term is "Hammer".
The geometry of my Pedersoli Brown Bess must be way different than these historical firearms or this baker is just different than the Brown Bess. No flint exists that could sit in my Brown Bess jaws and nearly contact the frizzen. It seems the cock is set much further apart from the frizzen on mine and thus I find it difficult to ever strike higher than maybe half way up the frizzen with the flint. I’ve got to the point of not seating the flint all the way back in the jaws for fear of wearing my frizzen down unevenly.
Have a look in the Brown Bess playlist as there are some detailed photos that would be better to compare with.
When a flintlock stops firing, I start by invoking a handful of divinities.
The flintlock won't resume firing, but usually I somewhat feel less crossed...
Might be better to knap the flint though...
How many shots do you think before you would have to re-harden your Frizzen again just curious?
Hundreds?... I have never counted.
@@britishmuzzleloaders Ok good to know thanks for the reply. Love your videos I learn a lot!
nice
Cheers.
Rob, sorry to be so tardy with my response. Please consider my observations to your otherwise excellent video..
1. I think that oxy acetylene is too hot and fierce for this job. You need a broad flame to heat the whole surface to cherry red. An oxy acetylene torch would tend to burn a hole in the back of the frizzen if used in the way you suggest. An Oxy Propane torch would be better, but would need to be handled carefully. Most of the time an air aspirated torch is fine..
2. I always "let down" the tail of the frizzen (the bit where it presses on the spring) and the back end of the pan lid by polishing it and then heating it to blue. Some frizzens are made from medium carbon steel and the quench can leave them pretty hard and brittle. They take a fair bit of shock loading and you dont want them to crack! Even if the steel is low carbon, it never hurts to make sure it hasn't hardened.. Rifle Shoppe frizzens are made (i think..) from EN8 carbon steel which will harden to some extent.
With the proper attention, I'm sure that any heat source would do... Cheers!
Did you buy the rifle rest you use in your videos or did you make it? If you made it, can direct me to a plan set or video please? I like its simple and flexible design.
Hi there. I made the rest. It is not exactly simple but certainly doable. It is discussed here... ruclips.net/video/-YNadIao3OA/видео.html
If any of you are interested in a baker. Military heritage sells them for 549.00 USD.
There is a whole video on "options" here on the Channel.
@@britishmuzzleloaders Could you send me a link to the video, I don't know that the title of it is.
@@NauticElk look for "Baker Rifle FAQ"
@@britishmuzzleloaders Much thanks!
How long does the case hardening last on the frizzen?
500 firings?..... Never counted...
Hello, Rob. The few shots in the video appear to show the touch hole on your TRS Baker particulary close to the breech end of the barrel. Is that just a short plug or does the TRS barrel have a patent breech? Thanks, Peter.
Hi there. The hole is behind the face of the breech. By cutting a channel from the centre of the face to the edge, the flash can be well communicated...
britishmuzzleloaders Thanks Rob. The reason I asked is because a friend recently bought a professionally built Rifle Shop Baker here in the UK to now find the breech leaks around the plug threads. Clearly not properly fitted. I was surprised to see the TH so close to the barrel end, more than yours, so I questioned a patent breech. Not sure I like the filing of the plug to that extent. I would expect the barrel and tang to be set back qtr inch further in the stock. Thanks for your videos. There are none better. Peter
On discussion with the Rifle Shoppe during my construction of it, they indicated that feature was by design and in fact aided in keeping the hole clear. They cited some historical examples, although I have never handled an original to compare it.
britishmuzzleloaders Thank you, Rob. That is useful to know. As to keeping the TH clear, new one on me. But does sound as if it is a Rifle Shop decision and not necessarily in the original Ordnance design. But then so many copies are of original commercial and not Ordnance rifles. Best regards, Peter.
where do you get a tool with a step to knap the flint? i can't find it.
You make one...
Surprised a bit I guess that you might only get a dozen or so shots before flint maintenance. I can't imagine being an infantry soldier back then.
This can be more,... maybe 20?... Once the flint is worn down a bit, the edge becomes "thicker" and needs attention more often. Like anything "organic" it is not completely regular and uniform so different results from flint to flint are the norm. Cheers
Made my tools same idea similar materials, just need some skills!
I think it is my Flint! could not possibly be my ignorance?
Skills come!
@@britishmuzzleloaders
Yeeeap, just hardened my frizzin with my DYI treatment, got my 1st flash in my pan. Got one flint tuned up better, re worked leather holder
How many hardenings do you find that can of MAP gas will last? Are you able to do more than one frizzen with it, or do you need to buy a new can each time?
I have done three (or is it four...) so far and still on the same bottle.
britishmuzzleloaders Great to know. I used to own percussion guns exclusively, so this is all new to me. I just re-hardened my first frizzen today, for a smoothbore gun I purchased over two years ago and could never get to spark. I am happy to report that it sparks quite well now even with a dull, used up flint. I have new flints on the way and hope to fire my long overdue first shots with the gun this weekend. Thank you for this excellent instructional video. As it is no longer my only flintlock, this skill will come in handy.
what resist that much recoil is it the wood or i dont know what its called but i think its the screw in the pistol grip?
the barrel on this rifle is held in by a screw in the back (generally goes in the wood, or it's a bolt that runs all the way down into the trigger guard); and a couple wedges driven into the forestock, through tenons dovetailed or soldered to the barrel. The survivability of the stock under recoil is directly determined by how closely the barrel and tang are inlet in the stock, as excess movement allows the barrel to slam into the wood, cracking it. Often, gunmakers would pack bee's wax into the inlets, in order to bed the barrel and other parts (beeswax significantly hardens when it's compacted by a hammer); although today, many of us just use epoxy bedding, as it is a bit more durable than wax.
Good morning Mr ,where did you buy The Baker rifle? (I m a reenactor), thanks again.
It was made from Rifle Shoppe parts, by me..
Meaning after how many strikes?
Dozens
Hi there, just a quick question, during the quench, did you use boiling water or water at room temperature?
Kind Regards :)
It was tap water.
@@britishmuzzleloaders Why do some people say to quench in light oil and not water?
Oil v water? Hardening steel ( must be > approx .7 % carbon) involves bringing temp to what’s called ‘critical temperature’ and quenching at a rate that will turn crystal structure to martensite. Water quenches quick. Oil quenches more slowly. The high C content, the slower it should be quenched. But of course there’s MANY more things to know. Take a course or get degree. This was very good video. It’s only a ‘black art’ if less knowledge is used and more is left to chance. But I agree, early heat treater’s likely relied more on their own learned method that worked for them. Some good, some less so. Great video!
Obviously the frizzens were made of mild steel (< about .4% carbon [C]). Yes, I heard some frizzens had a thin high carbon steel layer welded onto face of frizzens; but this not likely on military. Because case hardening is meant to put C into surface of low carbon steel ( can’t harden low C steel because it lack’s enough C) quenching fast in water will give highest hardness and the quick quenching won’t effect the low carbon body of the frizzen. Many things have been used for the C source in case hardening. Among them, leather scraps. Because animals are mostly C, skin provides a fairly good source for C. “Packing” low carbon steel in airtight container along with source of C packed around the steel, for a long period of time, puts C into surface. After the “packing heat”, the contents must be quickly water quenched as in the video shows for the Casenite process.
The medium used to quench metal in heat treating has no effect “in” the metal itself. Only in the RATE of cooling during quenching. Air quench is slow. Oil quenching is faster. Water quench is fast. Learn more about the how and why of RATE of quenching by learning and studying a phase graph for steel.
I know that it may sound a blasphemy, but would it be possible to make a modern flintlock using ferrocerium?
I'm sorry, but I don't know what that is...
Ferrocerium is the alloy used in outdoor firestarter rods. A frizzen with the face made with an insert of this alloy would send showers of sparks with any piece of metal used as a flint.
How would you attach the plate of Ferrocerium to the hammer? If something like this could be made to work, the person reworking these hammers with this material would be a rich man. Perhaps even patent it. Where is the alloy available from, and would flint get it to spark or would you need a piece of steel in place of the flint? Good idea and this, if done correctly, could make you and/or the person attaching this alloy to the hammers wealthy if you could patent the process.
That was really interesting. I was surprised to here what a short life flints have. Do you know how Napoleonic era soldiers handle this type of maintenance? Did soldiers carry half a dozen flints and flint napping tools? Did they repair their own frizzens, or did armourers do it?
+Minute Man The flint will last dozens of rounds easily.. Without knapping, it would only do for 20 or so... That said, it all depends on it's quality and internal makeup. Soldiers carried spare flints but not typically any tools for knapping... There is a technique, although rather hard on the flint whereby the flint is rested upon the fission and then the frizzed is struck on the back, almost like the reverse function of the lock... this will often recondition the edge for a short time.. It is rather violent and the flint risks being broken moreso than with tools... Repair of frizziness (case hardening) would have been done by an armourer in the forge... Cheers.
The need to change flints after 20 or so shots has interesting rate-of-fire and tactical implications for riflemen and musketeers in long, drawn out engagements, such as defence of fixed positions in siege warfare.
GAD! VISE GRIPS SIR!!!!!? Have you shot your baker enough to have to re-harden your frizzen already?
Well, you have to do what you have to do... What is another way? I don't know of a purpose built vice for frizzen springs... As for the frizzen, I guess so.... I have had the rifle about three years and shot it pretty consistently... It wasn't sparking with either snapping or replacing the flint,.... so the next step is,........ Sparking wonderfully now.....
I used a small main spring vice on my frizzens. If you want to PM your address, I'll send you one....I have several floating around the shop. My Baker came with an assembled lock from the Rifle Shoppe. Did you assemble your lock from components?
I really do like your brass knapping tool, I have never seen that before. Did you make it?
Yes I did. It's just filed down round stock.
Was the design taken from historical reference or did you design it on your own? I mean it is a great idea. I have been using just a standard knapping hammer for years but I can see where your tool knaps a straighter edge. If I may ask, what are the dimensions ?
wasnt the flint actually wrapped in a piece of lead, rather than leather? (like a roundball that was punched flat with mallet)
+ultor europae Yes, lead was used. I do make mention of that fact at 1:53... :-) I have always used leather and have never had a reason to change. Leather is certainly just as prevalent, historically speaking.
britishmuzzleloaders
doh, didnt hear that mentioned ;) by the way, do you know what did they use back in the day in place of "kasenite" to harden the frizzen plate?
ultor europae No problem... :-)... As for hardening, they used a technique with bone charcoal. By encasing the part in charcoal, and the whole in a sealed crucible or container, and "baking" it for a long time, the carbon from the slow decomposition of the charcoal will be imparted into the steel, forming a "case" of hardened metal on the surface... You can do a similar treatment by wrapping the frizzed in scraps of leather and, well, bone meal, in a tin can that has the top folded over and hammered shut to seal it... throw it in the fire for a few hours and you will have a similar result, if a little more rustic. Cheers.
britishmuzzleloaders
ahh, thats very interesting. so with bone charcoal, you mean that they actually charred animal bones like wood sticks?
+ultor europae I'm not really up on exactly what it looked like back then. I do know that if you use the scrap leather bit, the process will work... Incidentally, it's the same way they made battleship armour in the 19th century... Harvey Cemented Armour.
Очень здорово..хотелось бы по русски.....
Brother where did you buy your baker?
I made the Baker from Rifle Shoppe parts.
Nothing worse than getting caught "Knapping!"
He who puns....
.....Gets 10 days...20?...not 30 days?Discipline on this channel is rather harsh.
Great stuff but music a bit much
To each their own.
Hey I was wondering what size flint you recommend might work best with the Baker?
Your flint should be as wide as your frizzen. Mine is one inch but some, if not all, the Indian repros are a tad narrower.
On a more serious note: I see the vent smoking when you start replacing the flint. Am I right in assuming that for safety sake you had discharged the rifle?
Had nothing to do with safety. Just fired the round and then changed the flint.
As a British rifle, it would be a hammer, not a frizzen
Yes,.. this is covered in the Brown Bess series. As this is more of a generic lock maintenance video, the common modern term was used.
Wonderful that you added stupid, annoying music! Wish I could have watched your video.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, Joe. Thanks for commenting.. I see that you too, are a keen producer of short films... For instance your "Stump Removal 2" video was a work of art... Great cinematography and the editing was beyond reproach. Could've done with a bit of Mozart or Strauss though.
@@britishmuzzleloaders I can almost picture you doing the Nancy Pelosi hand clapping at me, as you sent this fine rebuttal . Since I couldn't listen to this video, I didn't bother to childishly snoop the internet to find out anymore about you or anything else you may have treated your fans with -- and I won't. In fact, pompous, full of themselves people like you, is the reason, you'll not hear another peep from me. You can revel in the fact, yours will be the last comment I make, before disabling them. (Which is right now!) I feel better already.
Ah, the internet!
What material do you use for flintstone?
Flint. English....