To honor a man who GAVE HIS LIFE to save the Federation, I think that if the Titan was going to be rechristened at all, it should have been named the USS Shaw.
Hell yeah, the rechristening felt more forced than anything else in the season and I could have lived without it, as the Titan deserved a legacy of it's own if not becoming the Shaw
@@cBake0 You're missing the reason this happened. Clearly the show runner was making a last minute backdoor pilot to try to make a decent future Star Trek show and figured giving it The Enterprise name would stoke way more fan expectation than anything else. I can accept it purely on meta business reasons as a result.
@@BlazingOwnager oh I'm not missing the reason, I just detest the choice when it could have been it's own ship. The main vessel doesn't have to be the Enterprise to be successful and this choice doesn't feel great in a storytelling sense.
This was the one nostalgia-grab I could have done without. The ship was the Titan when it performed those feats... it feels like cheap appropriation to rename it the Enterprise. Plus confusing as hell to retell the story of this battle, where the Enterprise was destroyed by the Borg while at the same time, another Enterprise that could cloak ferried a renegade crew, which then had to abandon the Enterprise to go get another Enterprise out of a museum.
Reminder Star Trek IV, the Enterprise-A was renamed after the whale incident...I mean Kirk and co. deserved a new ship after saving the Earth from Whale watcher aliens, so 120 years later Picard and co did the same thing.
Disagree. The Enterpsie A was the Yorktown before and the decision was made for the very same reasons. A newly built Enterprise A would have had to compete with the Excelsior, which had already been presented as the humungus state of the art big powerful ship. I twould have been childish to present an "even bigger ship" ... so they decided that "name means everything" ... very likewise an Enterprise G would have had to be even bigger than the F.... which would have been ridiculous.
@@TheErockaustin While it has never been stated in movie or TV episode dialogue, common beta canon from different reference guides and other supplemental material has the Enterprise-A start off as either the USS Yorktown (a nod to what Roddenberry originally was going to call the hero ship in TOS, before changing it to Enterprise) or the USS Ti-Ho and recommissioned as the Enterprise-A. Mainly because there wasn't enough of a gap between the loss of the prime Enterprise and the reveal of the Enterprise-A to have built it from scratch...and the fact that the Constitution II/Refit Constitution design was the end of its useful life, so its doubtful Starfleet would make any more when Excelsior-class vessels were coming onto the scene. So...logic seems to hold the A was an existing Constitution II that was renamed while being repaired or refit.
Honestly, while watching the finale something about the Enterprise-F just felt off. I honestly believe it was supposed to be the -E that was being decommissioned so they could make the Titan-A the -F, but then they shoehorned STO's Odyssey-class Enterprise in at the last minute for (say it with me) fan bait. For something some fans were clamoring to be canonized for over a decade, their inclusion of the -F just felt so hollow.
the only in universe reason i can think of is the newer ships had to be gutted to remove any way to remotely hack them and disconnect from the fleet system. the Titan being a older ship it was easier and faster and a ship named Titan did fire and destroy/cripple several ships in full view of Earth killing hundreds if not a few thousand young crewmembers. the name itself may have become poltically infamous enough to be temporally retired.
I have a slightly more optimistic lore theory. Riker has a meeting with the current CNC and tell him that he will be ready to take command again after his vacation. He asks for the Titan. The CNC tells him that they just officially gave the Titan to 7of9 and that she more than earned it. Then the CNC offers Riker the new enterprise under construction. Then Riker suggests swapping the names. Give the new flag ship the name of the ship that stood between the assimilated and earth. And honor the ship and crew with the most famous name in the federation.
That fact seems to have been forgotten about in order to make his point more valid. That and the fact the rename was done to honour the USS Defiant and her crew for their heroics against the Dominion. Also it saved a completely pointless scene between Sisko, Ross and other Admirals over them giving Sisko another different class of ship as a replacement and ultimately agreeing at the end to giving him another Defiant considering he helped with it's design to begin with.
I agree with this. The Titan must have distinguished itself enough on its own to even get the Titan-A designation in the first place. That's been shown to be very rare. Rechristening the Titan-A to Enterprise-G diminishes both, especially the Titan's legacy, which it now ended.
i'd have enjoyed seeing a shot of Geordi and his daughters fussing over bluprints for a new type of vessel, the Picard -class, with the next Enterprise being of that lot
And yes it's definitely a starfleet thing to do, just like networking all their ships even though they know that their most dangerous enemy is really really good at taking over networks.
The one thing that bugs me about this they have first hand knowledge on multiple occasions the M5 computer fiasco, even in New Trek Prodigy and lower decks have both big costly example of why this was just a bad idea but they continuously double down on it.
It's supposed to be bad luck to change a name of a ship. "Legend says that when every ship is christened, its name goes into a 'Ledger of the deep' maintained by Neptune (or Poseidon) himself. Renaming a ship or boat means you are trying to slip something past the gods and you will be punished for your deviousness."
Also "retrofitting" the Titan's components into a ship of a new class seemed to me to be Paramount's excuse for not paying the designer of the Luna Class properly.
@@jimskywaker4345 what you are forgetting is that Lower Decks is a animated show that isn't exactly highly detailed meaning the Luna class in the show wasn't as highly detailed as the actual design which Paramount's lawyers could use as a argument should it goto court.
Which is all HIGHLY ironic given that the Constitution III-class is quite literally an updated fan ship (the Shangri-La-class) brought from the era of the first six movies up to the 25th century, the main difference is that this time the designer had been hired on as part of the crew (he helped make some of the new ships and models for the Stargazer's ready room in season 2) not just someone who submitted a design. And I'll bet you anything this is yet another reason why the Titan-A became the Enterprise-G when we already had the Enterprise-F in all her glory FINALLY come to life onscreen: The Odyssey-class was a fan design from STO's "design the next Enterprise" contest. As someone who's spent way too much time zooming around space saving the galaxy in an Odyssey-class, THAT is flagship material and deserves way more than just a cameo. Stupid legal crap ruins everything.
@@TerLoki Legal crap always ruins everything as it always seems to favour those with the most money. What's funny about this is I'm pretty sure the same guy designed both the Odyssey and the Luna classes. That guy being Sean Tourangeau.
If I remember correctly, when Picard was telling Riker that he should make a stand and try to fight the shrike, Riker tells Picard "This isn't the Enterprise."
I dont think Matalis anticipated the Titan and Shaw to be received so well. I think he was focused on enterprise nostalgia to the point he didnt realize he had created something new thay also deserved respect
I think you've hit the nail on the head there. At the time he was writing, nobody was asking for a Titan-A show. But people are always asking "what's the current Enterprise up to?" and I think that's the question that he was trying to answer. He said in an AMA that the show was written from the start as an Enterprise-G origin story. And then we got our hands on it, and a lot of us got really excited about Shaw and the Titan-A, but obviously by the time it's airing it's too late to change the ending.
Them changing it to the new enterprise didn’t make sense to me. The enterprise line all followed in a way in terms of look, the Titan just looks odd, especially after you see what the F looks like and then it shrinks massively for the G? My only take on defiance and sap Paolo was that they were identical hulls… not entirely changed ones
Defiance and Sao Paolo was purely a propaganda move, Defiance was the face of the Dominion war for Starfleet, and it was probably the right move under the circumstances.
I can't remember if it was discussed onscreen, but I was under the impression the Sao Paulo was a newly built Defiant class ship and Starfleet gave Sisko special permission to change the name to Defiant. It was a PR move but also a nod to Sisko & his crew as well as the original Defiant class prototype that he helped build. I think in this case the name change works where the Titan-A rebrand to Enterprise-G doesn't.
I would argue the renaming of the Sau Paulo was because it just came out of the shipyard, and Ross just picked a random Defiant-class ship to rename. Also, you will notice that the original had the NX prefix. I think the rename had NCC meaning it was no longer experimental.
The reason it didn't get an -A designation is time and budget to alter the models and reshoot stock footage, and the remaining episodes have shots with the NX registry on the new vessel.
Agree 100%. I wish the show would have ended with Seven getting the Titan-A with her and Sydney flying past the new Enterprise-G in a shuttle. Shoot it like when Kirk and co. flew past Excelsior at the end of Star Trek IV. Then during the poker game, make a comment about Riker returning to the fleet because he couldn't turn down command of the Enterprise.
You are right for all these reasons! Hell, I wouldn't have minded if the Enterprise D would have been refittet(All Good Things-style) and returned to service, at least until Enterprise G was ready. Starfleet would have been short of ships at this point and I once read the Galaxy Class was supposed to be in service for a long time. This would have been fanservice done right.
My problem with this lies in the ship itself and its capabilities. The Titan A just isn't flagship material, and the Enterprise is the flagship and always has been the flagship, the posting in the fleet with the most prestige possible. Making the Titan A lazily into the Enterprise G is doing a name to that prestige and standing, the heroics of the Titan and her crew notwithstanding. Someone else has mentioned the better option: Renaming the Titan A into the U.S.S. Jean-Luc Picard would have made much more sense; if unconfortable with naming ships after living people (which real-life militaries actually do on a regular basis), it could be named the U.S.S. La Barre as a placeholder, and renamed after Jean-Luc died (a second time? how many is that now?).
Can’t agree more. The enterprise is always meant to be the farthest out there and be the standard bearer for Starfleet. The message is this is what joining the federation can bring you. And this is the price for being out enemy. As the Flagship of Starfleet the USS Enterprise is supposed to be the best foot forward and represent the best humanity has to offer
@esphaeraspraestans4212 the NX-01 was the only functional ship for a time and became the flagship the TOS was a bit more grey area with the Enterprise, Excalibur, Hood and a few others holding the title for a time the Excelsior was the flagship and later maybe the Enterprise B when the Excelsior was in for refit. the Enterprise -C was a Ambassador class, the most powerful class at the time so likely at some point. the Enterprise -D was stated as the flagship of the federation on screen the Enterprise- E led ships during the dominion war so counts as a flagship the Enterprise-F had a Admiral leading the fleet so is classed as a flagship
You guys are confusing flagship & how advanced a ship is. They don't have to be one in the same. For example, in WWII, the battleship South Dakota was Admiral Nimitz's flagship, even though it wasn't as large or advanced as battleships like the Missouri class.
@@thanqualthehighseer The Enterprise D is the only ship confirmed to be the Flagship of the Federation. Being the only one doesn't mean anything and being powerful doesn't either. Nor does the presence of Admiralty especially since Starfleet doesn't seem to have any sub-organization to their fleet unless there's an emergency. So, in S2 for instance when the Jurati Borg show up, the Stargazer would have been the "flagship" of that smaller fleet because Picard was onboard and had seniority. But he wasn't in command of the entirety of Starfleet.
I'm reminded of Gene Roddenberry's show bible that stated that "the Starship Enterprise is the central character of this show" which Rick Berman correctly called bullshit on with DS9 and we've never looked back.
I was mad. At first. However, I realized I would be fine with them deciding to rename the ship USS Picard. I didn’t actually mind them changing the name as much as I thought I did. From the Federation’s point of view, making the Titan A Enterprise G is a high honor. There’s gonna be a Titan B eventually. So, why not? I’m happy about Captain Seven of the USS Enterprise. I think that’s just cool.
You can also imagine there would be alot of backlash from the fans if the supposed Star Trek Legacy series had Seven in command of the Titan and not Riker who made it famous. So renaming it to Enterprise G allow them to make that show and maybe add in a new Titan with Captain Riker once again in command.
@@michaelpapp5518 I didn't say he would and Shaw being in command on Picard is different than him doing so in s series which is what I'm talking about. The fans of the book series wouldn't be happy if the Titan they read about finally got a TV series and Captain Riker wasn't in command. Renaming the ship to Enterprise allows for another Titan to be built with Riker in command.
The problem with that is that we now have a small, underpowered and almost obsolete ship named the Enterprise G. We might as well get weekly episodes of the Enterprise G getting her ass kicked by shuttlecraft piloted by tribbles?
Shaw was my favourite new character introduced in _STP_ , and I didn't even watch the show, just clips. That said, the _Titan_ had its own legacy 3 ships deep (that we know of), and renaming her _Enterprise_ spat on the legacies of both vessels _and_ their crews. They could have had the _Titan-A_ (because for whatever reason they decided they need to replace the Luna-class _Titan_ (which should really by the _Titan-A_ making the _Titan-A_ the _Titan-B_ , I know it's confusing) refit to serve as a multi-mission starship, the way the _Enterprise_ has always been a multi-mission platform, and made her the new flagship of a recovering Starfleet. It's also possible to have a Starfleet without an _Enterprise_ for awhile, if they absolutely had to retire the Odyssey-class. And given she only appears for very short glimpses in two episodes outside of _Star Trek Online_ , and without the proper bridge at that, I think it's a real shame of a missed opportunity with Adam's design. If they absolutely needed a new _Enterprise_ , I think they could have grabbed another ship design to do it with. Another _STO_ crossover, like the Yamato Dreadnought might have been funny, given it's based on the Galaxy-X from 'All Good Things.' It could have also been a Yorktown Odyssey variant, a Vesta, or something completely different-looking. Just... not the _Titan_ . In previous cases where Starfleet has renamed a vessel, there's no mention of that vessel's accomplishments, nor really what happened to her crew, and I'm generally more curious as to the latter than the former. They have to be sent somewhere, after all. In _STO_ , Admiral Jorel Quinn makes a point that Starfleet has more ships than capable crew, and it's unusual, but they'll most likely have to essentially fast-track the Player Character's career. This partially explains how you can go from a newly-graduated Cadet to a Fleet Admiral in about two years, whereas in-universe, far fewer officers make Admiral. It also explains how you're encourage to switch shifts every 10 levels, unless you have a T6 ship tucked away for your use, in which case it scales with your level, so you don't have to change ships. But you also generally keep your crew. Apart from the _Titan-A_ we don't really see a ship whose actions we have witnessed get their names or registries changed, and usually the change _is_ for an _Enterprise_ : The _Yorktown_ into the _A_ , the _Sovereign_ into the _E_ . _Sao Paolo_ into the _Defiant_ really is an exception, since the Admiralty saw the affect the legendary ship had on fleet morale. They specifically granted Ben Sisko special dispensation not only to rename _Sao Paolo_ as the _Defiant_ , but to keep the original registration number, so as to pretend the original _Defiant_ had not been defeated by the Breen weapon, or something similar, considering the changes to the interior by comparison. In this case, the crew of the _Sao Paolo_ could have even felt honoured to play a part in the legend of Sisko and the _Defiant_ . We don't know, because there is no reference to it. Just like there's no reference to the service records of the Connie Refit _Yorktown_ or the _Sovereign_ . We can assume _Sao Paolo_ was active in the Dominion War, but serving elsewhere, because why wouldn't she be, unless, of course, she was new off the line. In which case, she had no legacy. The one that still puzzles me is _Discovery_ . She was given a refit and an _A_ , but wasn't she still the same ship?
The Discovery thing was a (rather goofy) effort to keep hidden the truth about the ship and crew being from the 23rd century. Like ANYBODY was really gonna be wondering where another Federation ship came from. 😆😆🤣🤣 Starfleet CAN do without an Enterprise for awhile; there was apparently around a 20 year gap between the Enterprise-C's destruction and the Enterprise-D's launch. Two whole decades...I don't think that there was any gap that long in the Enterprise's history...unless we find out how long it was between the end of the NX-01's service (since the Fleet Museum had the NX-01 Refit) and the initial Constitution class design that had Captain Robert April in command. 🤷🏽♂️🤷🏽♂️🤷🏽♂️ And I have to agree, the Constitution III class iteration absosmurfinlutely should've been the Titan-B, with the Titan-A being another Luna class. But meanwhile...is it just me, or does the Connie III kinda suck?? Maybe not Enterprise-A levels (nothing's been THAT bad since), but the Titan-A seemed to get whooped nearly every episode until it finally got some plot armor.
Wanna make 7 Captain of the Entreprise? Go right ahead But it would've made more sense to make the Enterprise-G a whole new ship entirely, preferably the most advanced ship Starfleet had to offer
If they were going to rechristen, I would've opted into calling her the USS Picard. In all fairness, it sticks with the "Name matters" message while honoring the heroics of Picard. I felt kinda off-put from the Enterprise-G bit since the ship doesn't follow the natural evolution of the Enterprise design language imo
" I felt kinda off-put from the Enterprise-G bit since the ship doesn't follow the natural evolution of the Enterprise design language imo" Except it kind of does, and personally I can see nearly every incarnation of her in this design, from the rounded saucers of the A, B and C. To the broad secondary hull of the B and D. Then there is the needle like nacelles calling back to the E (not to mention the pylons and the lot.) In fact the only on-screen enterprise its not like is the F, but then again it had some unusual features, better suited for a video game than a mainline Enterprise. It also shares little with the NX-01 Enterprise, but meh.
@@themadoneplays7842 I don’t see how it could evolve into the Enterprise-J though. The ship’s _way_ too small, the design’s more brutalist than sleek, the nacelles are *_TINY_* as hell, etc.
@@rga0019 And that's why you are not a writer. There is 100 years between this show and the 26th century with 3 Enterprise letters (H, I, J) and that's assuming that the G isn't just a more short-term placeholder, and the F is refit and recommissioned in the future. On another point, the Enterprise J we see the in Enterprise might also just be an alternate timeline that Archer prevented (that was implied). It could be that big, but there is also a possibility that the prime J that we do end up getting isn't small, but more practical.
Agreed. Also, we really plow through Enterprises. We used up D-F in less than 40 years! Come on. I would not want to serve on Enterprise! It's a death wish. And we know that J exists in the distant future. So, they must learn to preserve Enterprises at some point.
Not actually that distant, people confuse Daniel's birth century (31st century, he says he's born approximately 900 years after the present (2150's) when he confesses his identity to Archer in "Cold Front") with the time he took Archer to when the J battles the sphere-builders (26th century). The J is only a bit over a century away from 2401, they kinda need to cram a few in to preserve continuity.
@@Paleorunner2 the point is had they not blasted through the F and immediately shoehorned the G then they’d’ve had to fit F, G, H, & I in the span of a bit over a century in a universe where excelsior class ships had been known to last over 100 years with some retrofit updates. Assuming each one had a good 30 years of service with no gaps in between them at all then that is already encroaching on the 26th century. There was a gap between NX-01 and 1701, between B and C, and between C and D (quite a large one if I remember yesterday’s enterprise correctly) so the precedent isn’t that the shipyards always start work on a new Enterprise as soon as one is destroyed.
I fully disagreed with refitting a 20 year ship and renaming it. I felt a refit and to be captained by Seven would have been great. A new Enterprise G should have been under construction in the back ground. As for the NCC-Sao Paulo I felt the pulled it from mothballs so I didn't have a problem with that rename.
@@roywhiteo5 it wasn't new. remember Liam Shaw had to help release the warp Nacelle housing so they could get energy from the waves hitting them in the nebula. He talked about the ship was so old, many of the younger crew would not have known how. It needed an old grease monkey. Unless you meant to refer to the NCC-Sao Paulo, I believe it was brand new. O'brien had to fix things on it like he did the original Defiant.
The part that got me was why the G even needed to exist when we never saw the F get destroyed in the first place? Or if it was destroyed, it was a blink and miss it scene.
Exactly! What happened to the Enterprise F? They released it with all that fanfare and fireworks, then everyone turned Borg, had a big fight, and a year later, the Enterprise G pops up. Thye can't have 2 Enterprises in service at the same time, can they?
I think from a story point of view, the gravity of the name Enterprise is huge, and that's the point. The Enterprise name has a huge legacy, the first warp 5 ship, the Constitution Class ship who's delta shield emblem became the insignia of Starfleet, the Constitution refit that preserved the Khitomer Accords, the Excelsior class ship that prevented the Romulan Klingon alliance with the Tomed incident, the sacrifice of the Ambassador Class at Narendra 3, the voyages of the Galaxy-Class, the battle hardened Sovereign Class... Legacy, that's the point. Now... We have a new captain with her own storied legacy, assimilated as a child, stripped of her humanity, reintegrated into human society, finding her own way, the seemingly adopted daughter of Admiral Janeway... As strong of a character as the name Enterprise itself, and now, she is the captain of a ship who's name is the pride of Starfleet. To me, it's fitting, to have the two paired.
I agree and I'm glad someone has said it as most of the comments here seem to be jumping on the bandwagon of agreement with the channel and with the STO fans of the Odyssey Class who are butt hurt that their favourite ship finally gets a canonical appearance only to then get decommissioned. They should think about the book fans of the USS Excalibur who have yet to see their favourite ship canonised.
@@DarkLordDiablos yeah I think the throwback hints at the uniform design along with the Neo-Constitution Class design are wonderful indicators of where Legacy could be headed, along the lines of SNW. I'm excited to see where the series goes.
@@ShipsoftheOceans technically it's 2 as the Enterprise A is a Refit like the original. The Enterprise didn't get a new class of ship until the Enterprise B Excelsior class so it's more like two and a half.
@@robb-kx6wu I hope Star Trek Legacy gets the go ahead as it's a waste of s teaser ending if it doesn't. That and we need a live action series to balance out SNW being in the 23rd Century and Discovery ending it's run in the 32nd. Not to mention the remaining crew from the Titan deserve to do more than just be named extras in another show. Lastly we absolutely 100% need to know what Captain Seven's launch word is going to be. 🤣
I found the choice to make the next Enterprise a ship that was smaller and less tactically powerful a very interesting choice. I don't know if the G is going to be the Federation flagship, but let's assume it were... it reminds me a little of the US Navy's flagship, the USS Constitution out of Boston MA... the oldest active-duty ship in the US Navy. Now, I'm sure the G won't be relegated to diplomatic and ceremonial duties, but you get the idea. The US Navy's flagship isn't an aircraft carrier or a battleship... it's an old, wooden, wind-powered heavy frigate from the War of 1812.
Smaller, yes. Less powerful? We dunno. There is a 1 year stop gap, and seems that the ship was going for its shake down cruise, which suggests that the titan was upgraded / refitted
I greatly enjoy this criticism. I legitimately believed that we would pan over the Titan towards another area of the space dock to see a brand new ship called the Enterprise G, which would’ve been fine by me. I skipped both Seasons 1 & 2 of Picard and stopped watching Discovery after Season 2, I haven’t gone anywhere near Prodigy or Lower Decks, but I have seen Strange New Worlds. New Trek if anything divided the fanbase, but now it seems to be trying to mend that relationship. At first, I thought it was too little too late, but then Strange New Worlds came out, and I have my criticisms of the show, but none have to do with the writing, at least for the most part. Then I watched Picard Season 3, and I am hopeful of Star Treks' future. And isn’t that, Treks’ ultimate mission? Not to take away our fear of the future, but to reassure us that there is indeed hope? Because one day WE ALL will be in space, the final frontier, voyaging on starships not limited to the Enterprise, on continuing missions, to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations, and to boldly go where no one has gone before!
Personal opinion, but, Prodigy and Lower Decks are on the same level as SNW. I was skeptical about Prodigy, myself. It's definitely written for someone who isn't a Trekie, but a great intro for the legacy. Explaing UTs, tricorders, and phasers in a kids way.
"Don't let name fool you, this isn't some fresh-out of dry-dock starfleet engineering experiment built for banquets and balls which has never been put through it paces. This a front line ship with years on her millage and decades of experience in her bones. The admiralty may have given her a fresh coat of paint and slapped on a "G" to her new name, but beneath all of that she's a Titan. Shields up. Red alert!"
I never liked that StarFleet would rename their ships. StarFleet bases a lot of their organization on Naval traditions. Historically, renaming a ship was considered bad luck or even inviting disaster.
Yes Enterprise g should have been a new ship built for seven This became a new show...Shaw commanding the Titan could make regular guest appearances I think a future show combining characters and storylines based onthe next generation,Voyager, and DS9 would be interesting
I agree 100%. Idk why the Titan was renamed, considering the original Titan was legendary in its own write under Riker's command. The next Enterprise should have been a new ship and not revealed this soon. Should have done it in the spinoff series.
Another starship will bear the name “Titan”, and this presents the opportunity to give it to a vessel bristling with so many weapons and physically imposing enough to fit its name.
It's not named for the mythical figure. It's named for the largest moon of Saturn (second-largest in the solar system). All of the Luna class ships were named for moons in the Sol system.
Has that been confirmed in canon? I know a number of beta canon sources say it was, but the problem with beta canon is, well, it's extremely subject to be overwritten if the main canon says so.
I really didn’t like that they re-named the Titan. It’s definitely one of my least favorite parts of this season. Before they revealed that it was re-christened as the Enterprise-G, I genuinely thought they were going to reveal that it was called the USS Picard or something else like that, which I wouldn’t necessarily been the biggest fan of, but I could have accepted that better than what they did.
I think renaming the sao paolo was fine... none of its crew was carried over to DS9 (as far we know) so it was a fresh start Titan A into Enterprise G on the other hand didnt make much sense
@@VikCachat i doub it, since it had a name, if it was new it would just be the new defiant without a name before I guess it was damaged or something and the crew got a new ship (it was war after all so no stying home) and then the ship became the defiant,since it was free for it
I think what happened there is: (a) from the very beginning they were planning this season as an "Enterprise origin story", which means that the previous Enterprise needs to be out of the way, (b) they wanted that origin story to be about a weaker ship, not a mighty flagship like the Odyssey class, (c) but they still wanted the Odyssey class Enterprise-F to exist SOMEWHERE in the timeline, to canonise the fan design, (d) and they wanted the 24th century shows (like Lower Decks) to have the freedom to mess with the Enterprise-E's fate. If you're in the writers room and you're trying to make all of those plans work at once, then implying that the E is long gone and inserting the F as the one being retired in the 25th century might look like the best compromise, even if it does make the lifespan of each ship surprisingly short. It's not the decision I would have made - because I wouldn't have renamed the Titan-A at all, I want the show to have more legacy registries - but it is a decision I think is understandable within their POV at the time. I don't think it's anything to do with opposition to fan-made designs, considering the Luna class is fan made too and they embraced that one and gave it multiple appearances.
It's bad enough that they renamed the Titan, destroying its legacy. But the Titan is also a journeyman of ships. It's not near powerful enough to be a flagship, something the Enterprise always was. The Enterprise D would own the Titan in battle, let alone the E! Don't get me started on the E simply disappearing......
I was never a big fan of the Titan and really any other ship but the Enterprise getting a A, B, C etc at the end of it. Put the name on other ships sure but it's starts to dilute the importance if several ships all have it. If it was just the Titan then I'd have been upset with the Change but that's a personal preference. I took it in universe as they got their shit rocked and lost who knows how many high ranking officers so they had to work with what they had, out of universe...well no Shaw...so idk if I'd stick around for a new show featuring them. HE was a breath of fresh air for the series
The name “Enterprise” is a legendary one and watching the “D” being mothballed after saving the Federation one last time was heartbreaking. Keeping her name alive with the crew that helped save the Federation was befitting in honor of the crew and Picard, who led the way. I was fine with the change.
And no, the Titan helped save the quadrant. But was the Enterprise D which did the vast majority of the heavy lifting vs the Borg. Titan wouldn't have lasted against the Cube.
I think the nostalgia bait is not just two-fold but threefold as this is the 3rd Constitution style ship to bear the name Enterprise. I do think a new ship bearing the name Enterprise would've been better.
I think they should've built an another Constitution III and called Enterprise. I would've been more satisfied with that. I think there would be less grumbling.
Sorry for my pending all caps but OH MY GOD THIS VIDEO. YES YES YES YES. Hits the nail on the head about Trek and how it can be done correctly. Whether it's Star Trek: Voyager or Star Trek: Titan or Star Trek: Deep Space Nine - we can have stories about non-Enterprises. Yes, we ALL LOVE the Enterprise. Our first love. But damn, such a lost opportunity, like you said. Trek is nothing but about diversity, intellectual discussions, allegorical/moral/ethical commentary, tongue in cheek humor and YES even badass space battles ala "Sacrifice of Angels" to save the galaxy once more. They jumped the shark at the end. I fully expected like you said - Titan to be fixed up under Seven and go on adventures, then the Enterprise G (a brand new ship with those upgrades so it can't be hacked again like them getting rid of holo-comms after first season of DISCO because of the issues they had) can be there too. I also still think they can do a Titan under Riker, but that's too late now. That only could have worked around 2010 had there not been the interregnum post ST:ENT.
The Enterprise-E and the Enterprise-F were both done dirty out of pure spite. The Enterprise-E is apparently destroyed off screen completely disrespecting her 3 films. The STO crowd finally gets the Enterprise-F canonized, at its decommissioning, so they can shove a new Enterprise at us without any strings attached. There doesn't always have to be an Enterprise at all times. There was a 19 year gap between the Enterprise-C and the Enterprise-D. The Enterprise-F should have been the new Enterprise, not the old Enterprise, because it was always going to be a blank slate, since they were never going to follow STO.
They should have left the name Titan on the ship, and let the legacy crew follow its own adventures. Let the Enterprise G be born sometime in the future. Titan, Voyager, Defiant, etc, they are all starfleet vessels and proud representatives of the UFP.
Totally agree. It's made me less likely to care about, much less watch ST legacy if it gets made. That together with the command crew makes me likely to skip.
Remember Shaw liked to keep things safe and go by the book. It wasn't til Picard and Riker came aboard for the Titan to a name those two with the help of seven made him a better captain otherwise he would have been forgotten
I think you're underplaying the original series here a bit. It's not just Uhura that was the diversity at the time. The 1960's were the HEIGHT of the cold war. Having a Russian manning the weapons was a HUGE thing. There was still resentment towards Japan at the time, so having a Japanese man piloting the ship, was a big thing too. Even with Uhura, they pushed the boundaries, they got in trouble for that onscreen interracial kiss. But the key thing about Star Trek? It's never been "about" the things that are "pushing the boundaries". When Kirk kissed Uhura, the problem was that the Plutarians forced them to do it against their will, that robbing of free will was the conflict, not the kiss. When in DS9 they had the onscreen lesbian kiss, it was "about" the symbiotes having been in a relationship in prior hosts and them doing so again being against their laws. And I think that's (part of) why Discovery did so poorly, they made everything blatantly "about" the current thing, instead of just making the way they thought things should be seem normal and make the conflict something else.
The Sao Paulo only merit was to have come fresh off the assembly line, to have installed a defense device against the Breen weapon and to have made the Mars - DS9 journey on its own. There weren't many toes to step on.
If anything, in my head, it should have been the Enterprise E being decommissioned, the F is launched (perhaps a rechristened USS Verity, Picard's last command), departing alongside the Titan A (to contrast with the final scene of Star Trek VI, where the Excelsior leaves for parts unknown, leaving the Enterprise A behind) with Seven, Raffi, and Jack staying aboard the Titan.
My favorite head cannon is that the Enterprise A was a mothball ship that they pulled out of storage to keep Kirk out of trouble. So renaming a second old constitution to Enterprise is entirely consistent with the Federation.
My first thought was also, "How do you rename a ship that just SAVED THE BLOODY FEDERATION!?" You've already got an Enterprise - in fact, you've got at least three - A, D, and F all still existed, though retired, at that point. I also didn't get why the F was about to be retired. It was less than twenty years old, and Federation starships are designed with lifespans of at least one hundred years. I would love to have seen the Enterprise-F being rebuilt at the end, and the others serving on the Titan-A. To be perfectly honest, though, I was also a little bent out of shape that we got this new Neo Constitution class Titan, instead of Riker's Luna class Titan. Given how many STO designs made it into Picard Season 2 and 3, it's really disappointing that the Odyssey and Luna classes didn't play a bigger role. My brain always assumed that the Sao Paulo was a brand-new ship that hadn't been commissioned yet when she was renamed Defiant. After all, Defiant was the prototype, and the class was only put into production when the Dominion War broke out, so all of them were pretty new ships at that point in time. Same with renaming the Yorktown to be Enterprise-A - she was falling apart when the left Spacedock, obviously she wasn't finished yet.
I'm with you on every point there. I also don't see how in any universe the Titan A is in any way a "refit" of the Luna class. It's an entirely different layout and superstructure. I can get behind them reusing parts from it, like panels and so on, but to say it's the same ship with upgraded bits on is absurd. Put them next to each other and they look nothing alike short of the superficial saucer with toilet rolls on sticks design.
Agree! But also from the point of view, that every sigle new ship caring the name Enterprise was bigger in dimensions. NX01 < NCC 1701 < A < B < C < D < E < F > G H < J (3,21 km) and Constitution V3 is the new Flagship? Sorry? But I think circus was in town.
If my information is correct, the Titan was the last active duty Constitution III Class. The original Enterprise was a Constitution Class, which in a way of thinking brings Star Trek full circle and opens a door to a possible new series in the Constitution Class Enterprise.
Finally finished Season 3 of Picard so I can now watch this video and I fully agree. Enterprise F wasn't seen destroyed and there's no canon knowledge of that ship. It could still be the best of the best. I liked the Titan name should have stuck with it.
Good conclusion: I think the Enterprise B and C give credence to your argument too I didn’t care for the Enterprise-F, BUT its design is both internally consistent and the happy medium between the flying Marriott Galaxy-class and the damascus steel katana of the Sovereign-class, exactly the flagship of a the fleet doctrine of Starfleet after the Dominion War
I really like the -F's design (especially considering it was made by a fan for a STO contest back in 2011). My main issue however is that it just feels slapped in, a hollow gesture designed to generate fan bait. I remember back in October when the -F showed up in the trailer and half the community lost their minds; and then the show aired and didn't do anything with it except immediately replacing it with the Titan-A.
The Titan should've kept it's name. The best way to end it would've been for an admiral to contact La Forge and say something like "we need to get the Enterprise D back into service after these events. She's old though and will need a refit to be brought up to current spec. Do you think you can manage that?" At this point La Forge hands the admiral a data pad with a design for a refit that has three nacelles. "She'll need an additional nacelle to keep up with modern power requirements, but yes, I've been thinking on it."
I agree. The Titan has gained the right to a legacy of its own. The scene itself, of the Enterprise G reveal, kinda works emotionally, but it's really rude and leaves a bad taste when you actually think about it.
I was expecting it to show USS Picard, or at the very least USS Shaw, to honour his sacrifice (even if he was an asshole lol). But nope. That took me right out of the moment of an otherwise fun episode. It just didn't sit with me right.
I hope that the first season of ST Legacy will feature a brand new Titan-B introduced that is now the fleet flagship and armed to the teeth. It would feel appropriate and honor the legacy properly. Also, considering Captain Seven's propensity for skirting the rules and causing trouble, I think giving her an older and less powerful ship is probably how Starfleet brass thought to allow her some leeway to cowboy around the alpha quadrant. The Enterprise was always a bit of a Maverick vessel and is in line with the path that Captain Seven will no doubt take. The Titan fought the entire fleet and has earned the flagship role: make it strong and imposing. The Enterprise needs to be free to misbehave: Demote it to front line exploratory work.
Regarding the USS Sao Paulo, it had no service history. Immediately upon being launched from Utopia Planitia Shipyards it was crewed by a skeleton crew to transfer the ship to DS9 to replace the lost USS Defiant. She was launched on stardate 52889.3 and delivered at DS9 on stardate 52891.3. Sisko requested special dispensation to rename her the Defiant. I do agree that renaming the Titan-A the Enterprise-G was 100% nostalgia grab, especially since the Titan-A had a service history that spanned 5 years and 36 missions. You're right that they screwed up because the point of Star Trek was never the starships, it was the crew. The ship was just the set piece everyone played on, but how the crew interacted with each other and their adventures is what mattered. They should have honored the Titan-A and the sacrifices of her crew by allowing the ship to continue since she was an integral part of saving of the Federation. Make another Enterprise but keep the Titan-A. Paramount seems to constantly painting themselves into a corner like Star Wars did. Not everything has to revolve around the Enterprise, just like how everything in Star Wars doesn't have to revolve around; the Force, Jedi v Sith.
Yeah that was the stupidest thing ever to be done. They already rolled out a new enterprise then in the same breath destroyed it tookba beloved beta ship and slapped enterprise on it. Made me sick
Agreed. That was my biggest gripe about Picard season 3. The Enterprise-G should have been a brand new vessel, top of the line and with Seven in command. The Titan should have continued on as the Titan (but don't get me started on the convoluted timeline of the starships named Titan) and also a nod to Captain Shaw, where we might have caught a glimpse of a new starship that bears his name as well. That way, the USS Titan-A is protected, Shaw is honored and the Enterprise receives the recognition it deserves. But, that's just me...
The problem is that Shaw gave the Titan to Seven. For her to leave the Titan for a new ship named Enterprise would be like discarding his sacrifice. So renaming the Titan to Enterprise, but still being the same ship with Seven in command would honor him.
@@Saiyan0X That goes into the writing. It feels that in this point in the season, the writing got a little lazy, relying on melodrama. Maybe Seven didn't have to take command of the new Enterprise in what I wrote above... Again, though, renaming the Titan-A as Enterprise -G was not the best move.
The worst and most dishonorable thing about the Titan is, that it lacks any and all elegance. It looks like a massive step back in starship design for Starfleet. It's just a depressing ship.
First, I think the Titan-A is a kit bash ugly ship that would have been good for a background shot at best. It's like someone took a Constitution refit, squished it, and then sneezed a bunch of random Star Destroyer parts on the top of it. Honestly, the only way the Enterprise G should have existed would have been rechristening the Enterprise D Saucer and the Syracuse drive section as the Enterprise G and handing that to 7 of 9. Or maybe have had the Enterprise E return from whatever universe it's currently in as they never said it was destroyed.
Titan was Liam Shaw's ship...Seven wouldve never been able to prove herself in command if it was maintained because that name will always be associated with Shaw. The rechristening was a correct one I believe. Despite all the animosity we saw, Shaw did believe Seven was Captain worthy. If he survived however, he might have brought fire and brimstone to those admirals for conjuring up the rechristening too
USS Yorktown was rechristened USS Enterprise-A in The Voyage Home. Things like this happen in real life navies, too. The Kirov was originally the Slava.
I have been saying this on other channels, the USS Titan NCC-80102-A helped save Earth by holding back an entire Fleet of Borg controlled ships only to be given the middle finger and stripped of a legacy for no reason. If I where to have an Enterprise G it would be a sister ship of the USS Titan A and at least name a third ship the USS Liam Shaw in honour of him, robbing the Titan of a legacy after it helped save Earth from an invasion is just rude not to mention a taboo by real life naval standards.
What they should have done: Keeping the USS Titan NCC-80102-A as it is. Build sister ships called the USS Enterprise NCC-1701-G, USS Picard, USS Riker, USS Liam Shaw and the USS Legacy.
I couldnt agree more! It was a profound disrespect to the Titan A to do what they did to it. When a ship garners enough renown to lockdown the NCC, you do Not rename it, period.
I think we are all ignoring the root problem: the Enterprise F should've never been decommissioned so soon. So many fans have been wanting the Odyssey class Enterprise F to be canon, and it finally was canonized only to be trashed immediately and replaced with a garbage "Neo-Constition class". The Enterprise E should've been Shelby's flagship which got destroyed, then at the end in Spacedock it pans over to the new Enterprise F. That would've been perfect.
Even the U.S. Navy has been known to change names for ships. When the U.S.S. Hornet sunk during battle in WWII they renamed another ship the U.S.S. Hornet. AKA "The Grey Ghost". After the war some Japanese sailors said when the saw the Hornet they thought is was a ghost ship.
people say that the "Enterprise" is the most famous name in starfleet but ships like the USS Hood (Riker's old ship) exist - a ship that survived the Dominion War, the Borg incursion at sector 001 and was listed as part of the taskforce ordered to intercept the Scimitar. now that's a proper hero ship.
Or the USS Endeavour; a Nebula class (So cut-price Galaxy) that survived both Wolf 359 AND the Battle of Sector 001. A Nebula!! That's got to be a ship and a half as well.
People supposedly like to "complain" about Star Wars being too tied to the Skywalker legacy or whatever, but then Paramount took a shit on the Titan legacy by overwriting its name with Enterprise. Both are legacies at this point, peers in going incredibly above the call of duty across at least two ships of the name. To then go, "no no, Enterprise is more important than you, your reward for your recent accomplishments is to lose your legacy name to help boost another's"? Disgraceful.
The "Enterprise" is a symbol. It oozes prestige, respect, and honor. Starfleet as well as humanity needed something to get behind, much like a country's flag. With the scar left by the Borg and resources drained (life and materials) it was the right call to rename a ship that showed it had heart. Remember how the statue of liberty save the day in Ghostbusters 2? Starfleet needed that as well. Not to win the day but a thing that people could look to, an idea manifested. That is the enterprise. For the Titan think of it as a promotion. That ship just got promoted to admiral.
I wasn't a fan at first. But now its a true legacy ship full of history and stories...I think its kinda cool. Plus the rest of the season was so awesome who really cares honestly. Everyone spending so much time trying to look at the glass have empty instead of half full🤷♂️
It was my understanding that the USS Sao Palo was a brand new ship. That had not entered service when the USS Defiant was destroyed. And I totally agree with you on renaming the Titan. My first reaction when I saw it was WTF?
Renaming the Titan-A to Enterprise-G also rubbed me the wrong way. 1: The Titan earned legendary status in its own right. They disrespected the legacy of the Titan-A by renaming it. 2: If they wanted a new Enterprise to appear at the end of the series they just could've shown a newly built ship and had Picard & co to send her off. It would've been fine if it was a Constitution III like the Titan-A. They could've even gave it some minor enhancements like the Enterprise-B which was a souped up Excelsior class. 3: The Enterprise isn't the only ship in Starfleet that matters. That's kinda the selling point of Starfleet within Star Trek. Starfleet is an organization filled with the best people and technology from across the Federation. Any ship could be a hero ship under the right circumstances which is why Voyager, Defiant, Stargazer, Excelsior, Thunderchild, Hood, Lexington, etc, are honorable names in Starfleet.
I’m guessing they thought fans would fall in love the Titan’s design more than the Enterprise F, which is just baffling. It doesn’t hold a candle to it. The Odyssey class is stunning next gen flagship material, and less than 20 years old at the time of S3.
Imagine the season finale of Voyager ending with the ship being rechristened as Enterprise. Apparently Starfleet uses the name Enterprise like a gold sticker ⭐️ when you do good 😂
The Sao Paulo is a bad example too, it had seen no service prior to delivery to DS9. The only voyage it took was the trip from Planitia Utopia to DS9 for delivery.
The Sao Paulo was brand new AFAIK. It MAY have gone on to do great things and earn it's name, and it did, just as the Defiant. And certainly having the legendary Defiant rise from the ashes like a phoenix would be a great morale boost for the fleet before invading Cardassia. When the Yorktown was rechristened to 1701-A(if we take that as canon) could have been a ship at the tail end of it's service that was already close to or at the end of it's life, and was given a service extension and renamed for Kirk and his crew. This could explain all the problems Scotty had in TFF. It was an old ship with a bunch of problems. Not every ship goes to the museum, most are scrapped. If this was going to be Yorktown's fate before STIV, then it's not nearly as disrespectful. The Titan-A was instrumental in saving the federation, and deserved to fly under that name alongside the greats. Very disrespectful to that ship's lineage.
Show: Let's spend a season hyping up Shaw on the Titan, and be setting up a potential series. Audience: Hey. There's some fun stuff. We do kinda want to see this as a series! Show: Okay, we ended the season without Shaw or the Titan. We set up that series you wanted, right? Wait, where did everybody go?
To honor a man who GAVE HIS LIFE to save the Federation, I think that if the Titan was going to be rechristened at all, it should have been named the USS Shaw.
Hell yeah, the rechristening felt more forced than anything else in the season and I could have lived without it, as the Titan deserved a legacy of it's own if not becoming the Shaw
@@cBake0 You're missing the reason this happened. Clearly the show runner was making a last minute backdoor pilot to try to make a decent future Star Trek show and figured giving it The Enterprise name would stoke way more fan expectation than anything else. I can accept it purely on meta business reasons as a result.
@@BlazingOwnager oh I'm not missing the reason, I just detest the choice when it could have been it's own ship. The main vessel doesn't have to be the Enterprise to be successful and this choice doesn't feel great in a storytelling sense.
@@BlazingOwnager I mean honestly a refit D would have been a better candidate imo for any Enterprise G
Normally that is how militaries do around the world, is rechristen to the name of a war hero.
Liam Shaw having reached warpscale rotation velocity upon hearing they renamed his ship in honor of those pirates.
He should know better than to challenge Dad Savage
This was the one nostalgia-grab I could have done without. The ship was the Titan when it performed those feats... it feels like cheap appropriation to rename it the Enterprise. Plus confusing as hell to retell the story of this battle, where the Enterprise was destroyed by the Borg while at the same time, another Enterprise that could cloak ferried a renegade crew, which then had to abandon the Enterprise to go get another Enterprise out of a museum.
Reminder Star Trek IV, the Enterprise-A was renamed after the whale incident...I mean Kirk and co. deserved a new ship after saving the Earth from Whale watcher aliens, so 120 years later Picard and co did the same thing.
as the pakleds said: another enterprise!
Disagree. The Enterpsie A was the Yorktown before and the decision was made for the very same reasons. A newly built Enterprise A would have had to compete with the Excelsior, which had already been presented as the humungus state of the art big powerful ship. I twould have been childish to present an "even bigger ship" ... so they decided that "name means everything" ... very likewise an Enterprise G would have had to be even bigger than the F.... which would have been ridiculous.
@@time391 I don't recall the Enterprise-A having another name first though. It was commissioned and decommissioned as the Enterprise.
@@TheErockaustin While it has never been stated in movie or TV episode dialogue, common beta canon from different reference guides and other supplemental material has the Enterprise-A start off as either the USS Yorktown (a nod to what Roddenberry originally was going to call the hero ship in TOS, before changing it to Enterprise) or the USS Ti-Ho and recommissioned as the Enterprise-A. Mainly because there wasn't enough of a gap between the loss of the prime Enterprise and the reveal of the Enterprise-A to have built it from scratch...and the fact that the Constitution II/Refit Constitution design was the end of its useful life, so its doubtful Starfleet would make any more when Excelsior-class vessels were coming onto the scene.
So...logic seems to hold the A was an existing Constitution II that was renamed while being repaired or refit.
Agreed. Enterprise-G should have been a new ship.
you should search up something called an eclipse class lol
Honestly, while watching the finale something about the Enterprise-F just felt off. I honestly believe it was supposed to be the -E that was being decommissioned so they could make the Titan-A the -F, but then they shoehorned STO's Odyssey-class Enterprise in at the last minute for (say it with me) fan bait. For something some fans were clamoring to be canonized for over a decade, their inclusion of the -F just felt so hollow.
the only in universe reason i can think of is the newer ships had to be gutted to remove any way to remotely hack them and disconnect from the fleet system. the Titan being a older ship it was easier and faster and a ship named Titan did fire and destroy/cripple several ships in full view of Earth killing hundreds if not a few thousand young crewmembers. the name itself may have become poltically infamous enough to be temporally retired.
And a larger, higher end ship. A genuine flagship grade ship…
@@tm502010 isn't it a constellation redesign. You know like Enterprise 1701 and A.
I have a slightly more optimistic lore theory. Riker has a meeting with the current CNC and tell him that he will be ready to take command again after his vacation. He asks for the Titan. The CNC tells him that they just officially gave the Titan to 7of9 and that she more than earned it. Then the CNC offers Riker the new enterprise under construction. Then Riker suggests swapping the names. Give the new flag ship the name of the ship that stood between the assimilated and earth. And honor the ship and crew with the most famous name in the federation.
The USS Sao Paulo was a brand new ship. It didn't have a service record other than the trip from Utopia Planitia to DS9.
That fact seems to have been forgotten about in order to make his point more valid.
That and the fact the rename was done to honour the USS Defiant and her crew for their heroics against the Dominion.
Also it saved a completely pointless scene between Sisko, Ross and other Admirals over them giving Sisko another different class of ship as a replacement and ultimately agreeing at the end to giving him another Defiant considering he helped with it's design to begin with.
And it was very much pointed out that it was a very rare thing along with what both of you said.
I absolutely agree with you. Renaming the Titan-A to Enterprise-G was a dishonor for both ship's legacies.
I agree with this. The Titan must have distinguished itself enough on its own to even get the Titan-A designation in the first place. That's been shown to be very rare. Rechristening the Titan-A to Enterprise-G diminishes both, especially the Titan's legacy, which it now ended.
Agreed
Narratively speaking, the reveal should have been a revamped Titan-A and, behind it (Star Trek IV style) a USS Picard.
i'd have enjoyed seeing a shot of Geordi and his daughters fussing over bluprints for a new type of vessel, the Picard -class, with the next Enterprise being of that lot
I honestly yelled out The Picard! I thought they had named a ship that. That would have been great.
And yes it's definitely a starfleet thing to do, just like networking all their ships even though they know that their most dangerous enemy is really really good at taking over networks.
Yeah. The Colonials learned that the hard way.
The one thing that bugs me about this they have first hand knowledge on multiple occasions the M5 computer fiasco, even in New Trek Prodigy and lower decks have both big costly example of why this was just a bad idea but they continuously double down on it.
@@808INFantry11X The answer is always "Some dumbass admiral"
changeling infiltration could've had a hand in that
Yeah, it wasn't like there were incidents like the M5 or Texas-class that could've alerted them to how bad an idea it was...
It's supposed to be bad luck to change a name of a ship.
"Legend says that when every ship is christened, its name goes into a 'Ledger of the deep' maintained by Neptune (or Poseidon) himself. Renaming a ship or boat means you are trying to slip something past the gods and you will be punished for your deviousness."
To be fair, that only applies to seafaring vessels. The NCC-1701 lineage operates in outer space.
I thought the same thing.
Probably why Q introduced himself to Jack at the end
Also "retrofitting" the Titan's components into a ship of a new class seemed to me to be Paramount's excuse for not paying the designer of the Luna Class properly.
they used the Luna Class in lower decks though
@@jimskywaker4345 what you are forgetting is that Lower Decks is a animated show that isn't exactly highly detailed meaning the Luna class in the show wasn't as highly detailed as the actual design which Paramount's lawyers could use as a argument should it goto court.
Which is all HIGHLY ironic given that the Constitution III-class is quite literally an updated fan ship (the Shangri-La-class) brought from the era of the first six movies up to the 25th century, the main difference is that this time the designer had been hired on as part of the crew (he helped make some of the new ships and models for the Stargazer's ready room in season 2) not just someone who submitted a design. And I'll bet you anything this is yet another reason why the Titan-A became the Enterprise-G when we already had the Enterprise-F in all her glory FINALLY come to life onscreen: The Odyssey-class was a fan design from STO's "design the next Enterprise" contest. As someone who's spent way too much time zooming around space saving the galaxy in an Odyssey-class, THAT is flagship material and deserves way more than just a cameo.
Stupid legal crap ruins everything.
@@TerLoki Legal crap always ruins everything as it always seems to favour those with the most money.
What's funny about this is I'm pretty sure the same guy designed both the Odyssey and the Luna classes.
That guy being Sean Tourangeau.
@@DarkLordDiablos Nah, the Odyssey was made by Adam Ihle.
If I remember correctly, when Picard was telling Riker that he should make a stand and try to fight the shrike, Riker tells Picard "This isn't the Enterprise."
I dont think Matalis anticipated the Titan and Shaw to be received so well. I think he was focused on enterprise nostalgia to the point he didnt realize he had created something new thay also deserved respect
I think you've hit the nail on the head there. At the time he was writing, nobody was asking for a Titan-A show. But people are always asking "what's the current Enterprise up to?" and I think that's the question that he was trying to answer. He said in an AMA that the show was written from the start as an Enterprise-G origin story.
And then we got our hands on it, and a lot of us got really excited about Shaw and the Titan-A, but obviously by the time it's airing it's too late to change the ending.
I have said in other places that they did not expect Shaw to become so popular and I do wonder if the regret killing him off.
Them changing it to the new enterprise didn’t make sense to me.
The enterprise line all followed in a way in terms of look, the Titan just looks odd, especially after you see what the F looks like and then it shrinks massively for the G?
My only take on defiance and sap Paolo was that they were identical hulls… not entirely changed ones
Defiance and Sao Paolo was purely a propaganda move, Defiance was the face of the Dominion war for Starfleet, and it was probably the right move under the circumstances.
I can't remember if it was discussed onscreen, but I was under the impression the Sao Paulo was a newly built Defiant class ship and Starfleet gave Sisko special permission to change the name to Defiant. It was a PR move but also a nod to Sisko & his crew as well as the original Defiant class prototype that he helped build. I think in this case the name change works where the Titan-A rebrand to Enterprise-G doesn't.
Well it is a neo constitution class ship. So that seems at least a bit fitting
Captain Shaw was the most human of them all
I would argue the renaming of the Sau Paulo was because it just came out of the shipyard, and Ross just picked a random Defiant-class ship to rename. Also, you will notice that the original had the NX prefix. I think the rename had NCC meaning it was no longer experimental.
The reason it didn't get an -A designation is time and budget to alter the models and reshoot stock footage, and the remaining episodes have shots with the NX registry on the new vessel.
Agree 100%. I wish the show would have ended with Seven getting the Titan-A with her and Sydney flying past the new Enterprise-G in a shuttle. Shoot it like when Kirk and co. flew past Excelsior at the end of Star Trek IV. Then during the poker game, make a comment about Riker returning to the fleet because he couldn't turn down command of the Enterprise.
You are right for all these reasons!
Hell, I wouldn't have minded if the Enterprise D would have been refittet(All Good Things-style) and returned to service, at least until Enterprise G was ready. Starfleet would have been short of ships at this point and I once read the Galaxy Class was supposed to be in service for a long time. This would have been fanservice done right.
My problem with this lies in the ship itself and its capabilities. The Titan A just isn't flagship material, and the Enterprise is the flagship and always has been the flagship, the posting in the fleet with the most prestige possible. Making the Titan A lazily into the Enterprise G is doing a name to that prestige and standing, the heroics of the Titan and her crew notwithstanding. Someone else has mentioned the better option: Renaming the Titan A into the U.S.S. Jean-Luc Picard would have made much more sense; if unconfortable with naming ships after living people (which real-life militaries actually do on a regular basis), it could be named the U.S.S. La Barre as a placeholder, and renamed after Jean-Luc died (a second time? how many is that now?).
Can’t agree more. The enterprise is always meant to be the farthest out there and be the standard bearer for Starfleet. The message is this is what joining the federation can bring you. And this is the price for being out enemy. As the Flagship of Starfleet the USS Enterprise is supposed to be the best foot forward and represent the best humanity has to offer
Honestly I'm sick of the enterprise-b flagship material. I want a small exploration vessel, like the good old days
@esphaeraspraestans4212
the NX-01 was the only functional ship for a time and became the flagship
the TOS was a bit more grey area with the Enterprise, Excalibur, Hood and a few others holding the title for a time
the Excelsior was the flagship and later maybe the Enterprise B when the Excelsior was in for refit.
the Enterprise -C was a Ambassador class, the most powerful class at the time so likely at some point.
the Enterprise -D was stated as the flagship of the federation on screen
the Enterprise- E led ships during the dominion war so counts as a flagship
the Enterprise-F had a Admiral leading the fleet so is classed as a flagship
You guys are confusing flagship & how advanced a ship is. They don't have to be one in the same. For example, in WWII, the battleship South Dakota was Admiral Nimitz's flagship, even though it wasn't as large or advanced as battleships like the Missouri class.
@@thanqualthehighseer The Enterprise D is the only ship confirmed to be the Flagship of the Federation. Being the only one doesn't mean anything and being powerful doesn't either. Nor does the presence of Admiralty especially since Starfleet doesn't seem to have any sub-organization to their fleet unless there's an emergency. So, in S2 for instance when the Jurati Borg show up, the Stargazer would have been the "flagship" of that smaller fleet because Picard was onboard and had seniority. But he wasn't in command of the entirety of Starfleet.
I'm reminded of Gene Roddenberry's show bible that stated that "the Starship Enterprise is the central character of this show" which Rick Berman correctly called bullshit on with DS9 and we've never looked back.
Given the number of Defiant-class vessels during the Dominion War (not many), the São Paulo may have been a brand new ship.
Been a while since I’ve watched the latter part of DS9 season 7 but I just assumed it was a new ship basically fresh out of the shipyard.
the Enterprise-E was being built as the USS Honorius before the D was destroyed and renamed
@@jono_cc2258 it was fresh off the line and then given special dispensation to be renamed after the destruction of the original Defiant.
I was mad. At first. However, I realized I would be fine with them deciding to rename the ship USS Picard. I didn’t actually mind them changing the name as much as I thought I did. From the Federation’s point of view, making the Titan A Enterprise G is a high honor. There’s gonna be a Titan B eventually. So, why not? I’m happy about Captain Seven of the USS Enterprise. I think that’s just cool.
You can also imagine there would be alot of backlash from the fans if the supposed Star Trek Legacy series had Seven in command of the Titan and not Riker who made it famous.
So renaming it to Enterprise G allow them to make that show and maybe add in a new Titan with Captain Riker once again in command.
@@DarkLordDiablos I don’t think having Seven Captain the Titan is much different than Shaw. Why would we expect Riker to go back to active duty?
@@michaelpapp5518 I didn't say he would and Shaw being in command on Picard is different than him doing so in s series which is what I'm talking about.
The fans of the book series wouldn't be happy if the Titan they read about finally got a TV series and Captain Riker wasn't in command.
Renaming the ship to Enterprise allows for another Titan to be built with Riker in command.
The problem with that is that we now have a small, underpowered and almost obsolete ship named the Enterprise G. We might as well get weekly episodes of the Enterprise G getting her ass kicked by shuttlecraft piloted by tribbles?
Shaw was my favourite new character introduced in _STP_ , and I didn't even watch the show, just clips. That said, the _Titan_ had its own legacy 3 ships deep (that we know of), and renaming her _Enterprise_ spat on the legacies of both vessels _and_ their crews.
They could have had the _Titan-A_ (because for whatever reason they decided they need to replace the Luna-class _Titan_ (which should really by the _Titan-A_ making the _Titan-A_ the _Titan-B_ , I know it's confusing) refit to serve as a multi-mission starship, the way the _Enterprise_ has always been a multi-mission platform, and made her the new flagship of a recovering Starfleet.
It's also possible to have a Starfleet without an _Enterprise_ for awhile, if they absolutely had to retire the Odyssey-class. And given she only appears for very short glimpses in two episodes outside of _Star Trek Online_ , and without the proper bridge at that, I think it's a real shame of a missed opportunity with Adam's design. If they absolutely needed a new _Enterprise_ , I think they could have grabbed another ship design to do it with. Another _STO_ crossover, like the Yamato Dreadnought might have been funny, given it's based on the Galaxy-X from 'All Good Things.' It could have also been a Yorktown Odyssey variant, a Vesta, or something completely different-looking. Just... not the _Titan_ .
In previous cases where Starfleet has renamed a vessel, there's no mention of that vessel's accomplishments, nor really what happened to her crew, and I'm generally more curious as to the latter than the former. They have to be sent somewhere, after all. In _STO_ , Admiral Jorel Quinn makes a point that Starfleet has more ships than capable crew, and it's unusual, but they'll most likely have to essentially fast-track the Player Character's career. This partially explains how you can go from a newly-graduated Cadet to a Fleet Admiral in about two years, whereas in-universe, far fewer officers make Admiral. It also explains how you're encourage to switch shifts every 10 levels, unless you have a T6 ship tucked away for your use, in which case it scales with your level, so you don't have to change ships. But you also generally keep your crew.
Apart from the _Titan-A_ we don't really see a ship whose actions we have witnessed get their names or registries changed, and usually the change _is_ for an _Enterprise_ : The _Yorktown_ into the _A_ , the _Sovereign_ into the _E_ . _Sao Paolo_ into the _Defiant_ really is an exception, since the Admiralty saw the affect the legendary ship had on fleet morale. They specifically granted Ben Sisko special dispensation not only to rename _Sao Paolo_ as the _Defiant_ , but to keep the original registration number, so as to pretend the original _Defiant_ had not been defeated by the Breen weapon, or something similar, considering the changes to the interior by comparison. In this case, the crew of the _Sao Paolo_ could have even felt honoured to play a part in the legend of Sisko and the _Defiant_ . We don't know, because there is no reference to it. Just like there's no reference to the service records of the Connie Refit _Yorktown_ or the _Sovereign_ . We can assume _Sao Paolo_ was active in the Dominion War, but serving elsewhere, because why wouldn't she be, unless, of course, she was new off the line. In which case, she had no legacy.
The one that still puzzles me is _Discovery_ . She was given a refit and an _A_ , but wasn't she still the same ship?
The Discovery thing was a (rather goofy) effort to keep hidden the truth about the ship and crew being from the 23rd century. Like ANYBODY was really gonna be wondering where another Federation ship came from. 😆😆🤣🤣
Starfleet CAN do without an Enterprise for awhile; there was apparently around a 20 year gap between the Enterprise-C's destruction and the Enterprise-D's launch. Two whole decades...I don't think that there was any gap that long in the Enterprise's history...unless we find out how long it was between the end of the NX-01's service (since the Fleet Museum had the NX-01 Refit) and the initial Constitution class design that had Captain Robert April in command. 🤷🏽♂️🤷🏽♂️🤷🏽♂️
And I have to agree, the Constitution III class iteration absosmurfinlutely should've been the Titan-B, with the Titan-A being another Luna class. But meanwhile...is it just me, or does the Connie III kinda suck?? Maybe not Enterprise-A levels (nothing's been THAT bad since), but the Titan-A seemed to get whooped nearly every episode until it finally got some plot armor.
@@DragoonMS Cue every _Trek_ ship getting introduced just in time to get its teeth unceremoniously kicked in.
@@BNuts That's sorta true. But the worst the Excelsior got was its transwarp drive sabotaged.
Wanna make 7 Captain of the Entreprise? Go right ahead
But it would've made more sense to make the Enterprise-G a whole new ship entirely, preferably the most advanced ship Starfleet had to offer
If they were going to rechristen, I would've opted into calling her the USS Picard. In all fairness, it sticks with the "Name matters" message while honoring the heroics of Picard. I felt kinda off-put from the Enterprise-G bit since the ship doesn't follow the natural evolution of the Enterprise design language imo
Should’ve brought back the USS Stargazer from S2. Having a S3 hero ship named after Picard’s first command could’ve been more poignant.
If they renamed his ship "Picard", Shaw would really have begun turning with exponentially accelerating speed in his grave.
" I felt kinda off-put from the Enterprise-G bit since the ship doesn't follow the natural evolution of the Enterprise design language imo"
Except it kind of does, and personally I can see nearly every incarnation of her in this design, from the rounded saucers of the A, B and C.
To the broad secondary hull of the B and D.
Then there is the needle like nacelles calling back to the E (not to mention the pylons and the lot.)
In fact the only on-screen enterprise its not like is the F, but then again it had some unusual features, better suited for a video game than a mainline Enterprise.
It also shares little with the NX-01 Enterprise, but meh.
@@themadoneplays7842 I don’t see how it could evolve into the Enterprise-J though. The ship’s _way_ too small, the design’s more brutalist than sleek, the nacelles are *_TINY_* as hell, etc.
@@rga0019 And that's why you are not a writer. There is 100 years between this show and the 26th century with 3 Enterprise letters (H, I, J) and that's assuming that the G isn't just a more short-term placeholder, and the F is refit and recommissioned in the future.
On another point, the Enterprise J we see the in Enterprise might also just be an alternate timeline that Archer prevented (that was implied). It could be that big, but there is also a possibility that the prime J that we do end up getting isn't small, but more practical.
Agreed. Also, we really plow through Enterprises. We used up D-F in less than 40 years! Come on. I would not want to serve on Enterprise! It's a death wish. And we know that J exists in the distant future. So, they must learn to preserve Enterprises at some point.
Not actually that distant, people confuse Daniel's birth century (31st century, he says he's born approximately 900 years after the present (2150's) when he confesses his identity to Archer in "Cold Front") with the time he took Archer to when the J battles the sphere-builders (26th century). The J is only a bit over a century away from 2401, they kinda need to cram a few in to preserve continuity.
@@AlexMcshred6505plus Only the H and I.
@@Paleorunner2 the point is had they not blasted through the F and immediately shoehorned the G then they’d’ve had to fit F, G, H, & I in the span of a bit over a century in a universe where excelsior class ships had been known to last over 100 years with some retrofit updates. Assuming each one had a good 30 years of service with no gaps in between them at all then that is already encroaching on the 26th century. There was a gap between NX-01 and 1701, between B and C, and between C and D (quite a large one if I remember yesterday’s enterprise correctly) so the precedent isn’t that the shipyards always start work on a new Enterprise as soon as one is destroyed.
Enterprise A lasted 7 years. That's it. Not all of them last long.
@@AtheistPilgrim Enterprise A is in the Fleet Museum. It lasted over a hundred years.
I fully disagreed with refitting a 20 year ship and renaming it. I felt a refit and to be captained by Seven would have been great. A new Enterprise G should have been under construction in the back ground. As for the NCC-Sao Paulo I felt the pulled it from mothballs so I didn't have a problem with that rename.
I think it was brand new so the name chance was not significant
@@roywhiteo5 it wasn't new. remember Liam Shaw had to help release the warp Nacelle housing so they could get energy from the waves hitting them in the nebula. He talked about the ship was so old, many of the younger crew would not have known how. It needed an old grease monkey. Unless you meant to refer to the NCC-Sao Paulo, I believe it was brand new. O'brien had to fix things on it like he did the original Defiant.
The part that got me was why the G even needed to exist when we never saw the F get destroyed in the first place? Or if it was destroyed, it was a blink and miss it scene.
Exactly! What happened to the Enterprise F? They released it with all that fanfare and fireworks, then everyone turned Borg, had a big fight, and a year later, the Enterprise G pops up. Thye can't have 2 Enterprises in service at the same time, can they?
@@Gregg29407 Actually, it was being decommissioned, and that was the last flight of Enterprise F
I think from a story point of view, the gravity of the name Enterprise is huge, and that's the point. The Enterprise name has a huge legacy, the first warp 5 ship, the Constitution Class ship who's delta shield emblem became the insignia of Starfleet, the Constitution refit that preserved the Khitomer Accords, the Excelsior class ship that prevented the Romulan Klingon alliance with the Tomed incident, the sacrifice of the Ambassador Class at Narendra 3, the voyages of the Galaxy-Class, the battle hardened Sovereign Class... Legacy, that's the point. Now... We have a new captain with her own storied legacy, assimilated as a child, stripped of her humanity, reintegrated into human society, finding her own way, the seemingly adopted daughter of Admiral Janeway... As strong of a character as the name Enterprise itself, and now, she is the captain of a ship who's name is the pride of Starfleet. To me, it's fitting, to have the two paired.
I agree and I'm glad someone has said it as most of the comments here seem to be jumping on the bandwagon of agreement with the channel and with the STO fans of the Odyssey Class who are butt hurt that their favourite ship finally gets a canonical appearance only to then get decommissioned.
They should think about the book fans of the USS Excalibur who have yet to see their favourite ship canonised.
@@DarkLordDiablos yeah I think the throwback hints at the uniform design along with the Neo-Constitution Class design are wonderful indicators of where Legacy could be headed, along the lines of SNW. I'm excited to see where the series goes.
*3 Constitution Class ships named Enterprise.*
@@ShipsoftheOceans technically it's 2 as the Enterprise A is a Refit like the original.
The Enterprise didn't get a new class of ship until the Enterprise B Excelsior class so it's more like two and a half.
@@robb-kx6wu I hope Star Trek Legacy gets the go ahead as it's a waste of s teaser ending if it doesn't.
That and we need a live action series to balance out SNW being in the 23rd Century and Discovery ending it's run in the 32nd.
Not to mention the remaining crew from the Titan deserve to do more than just be named extras in another show.
Lastly we absolutely 100% need to know what Captain Seven's launch word is going to be. 🤣
I found the choice to make the next Enterprise a ship that was smaller and less tactically powerful a very interesting choice. I don't know if the G is going to be the Federation flagship, but let's assume it were... it reminds me a little of the US Navy's flagship, the USS Constitution out of Boston MA... the oldest active-duty ship in the US Navy. Now, I'm sure the G won't be relegated to diplomatic and ceremonial duties, but you get the idea. The US Navy's flagship isn't an aircraft carrier or a battleship... it's an old, wooden, wind-powered heavy frigate from the War of 1812.
Amazing that the starships displayed at the Fleet Museum represent a longer period of time than that between the Constitution and the ships of today.
Smaller, yes. Less powerful? We dunno. There is a 1 year stop gap, and seems that the ship was going for its shake down cruise, which suggests that the titan was upgraded / refitted
I greatly enjoy this criticism. I legitimately believed that we would pan over the Titan towards another area of the space dock to see a brand new ship called the Enterprise G, which would’ve been fine by me. I skipped both Seasons 1 & 2 of Picard and stopped watching Discovery after Season 2, I haven’t gone anywhere near Prodigy or Lower Decks, but I have seen Strange New Worlds. New Trek if anything divided the fanbase, but now it seems to be trying to mend that relationship. At first, I thought it was too little too late, but then Strange New Worlds came out, and I have my criticisms of the show, but none have to do with the writing, at least for the most part. Then I watched Picard Season 3, and I am hopeful of Star Treks' future. And isn’t that, Treks’ ultimate mission? Not to take away our fear of the future, but to reassure us that there is indeed hope? Because one day WE ALL will be in space, the final frontier, voyaging on starships not limited to the Enterprise, on continuing missions, to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations, and to boldly go where no one has gone before!
Personal opinion, but, Prodigy and Lower Decks are on the same level as SNW. I was skeptical about Prodigy, myself. It's definitely written for someone who isn't a Trekie, but a great intro for the legacy. Explaing UTs, tricorders, and phasers in a kids way.
@@drewf41 i agree, Prodigy was surprisingly good
"Don't let name fool you, this isn't some fresh-out of dry-dock starfleet engineering experiment built for banquets and balls which has never been put through it paces. This a front line ship with years on her millage and decades of experience in her bones. The admiralty may have given her a fresh coat of paint and slapped on a "G" to her new name, but beneath all of that she's a Titan. Shields up. Red alert!"
Let's be honest, 'Nostalgia Grab' was the invisible sub title for Picard season 3.
I never liked that StarFleet would rename their ships.
StarFleet bases a lot of their organization on Naval traditions.
Historically, renaming a ship was considered bad luck or even inviting disaster.
Yes Enterprise g should have been a new ship built for seven
This became a new show...Shaw commanding the Titan could make regular guest appearances
I think a future show combining characters and storylines based onthe next generation,Voyager, and DS9 would be interesting
Trash the g somehow
Hansen finna captain the voyager A !
I agree 100%. Idk why the Titan was renamed, considering the original Titan was legendary in its own write under Riker's command.
The next Enterprise should have been a new ship and not revealed this soon. Should have done it in the spinoff series.
Another starship will bear the name “Titan”, and this presents the opportunity to give it to a vessel bristling with so many weapons and physically imposing enough to fit its name.
It's not named for the mythical figure. It's named for the largest moon of Saturn (second-largest in the solar system). All of the Luna class ships were named for moons in the Sol system.
That's a fair point. Every Titan we've seen in both Alpha and Beta sources has been a light Cruiser. The name screams Battleship or Carrier.
A Yorktown variant of the Odyssey class starship.
the Rechristening thing also happened with a previous enterprise. the Enterprise A was originally the Yorktown
Agree, I was about to say this but i guess you beat me to it
Has that been confirmed in canon? I know a number of beta canon sources say it was, but the problem with beta canon is, well, it's extremely subject to be overwritten if the main canon says so.
It’s never been confirmed in canon but does make sense
I was honestly expecting the Titan to be renamed USS Jean Luc Picard
I really didn’t like that they re-named the Titan. It’s definitely one of my least favorite parts of this season.
Before they revealed that it was re-christened as the Enterprise-G, I genuinely thought they were going to reveal that it was called the USS Picard or something else like that, which I wouldn’t necessarily been the biggest fan of, but I could have accepted that better than what they did.
I think renaming the sao paolo was fine... none of its crew was carried over to DS9 (as far we know) so it was a fresh start
Titan A into Enterprise G on the other hand didnt make much sense
I'm positive the Sao Paolo was new construction.
@@VikCachat i doub it, since it had a name, if it was new it would just be the new defiant without a name before
I guess it was damaged or something and the crew got a new ship (it was war after all so no stying home) and then the ship became the defiant,since it was free for it
What happened to the Enterprise-F? Did they really not want a fan made ship on screen that long?
I think what happened there is:
(a) from the very beginning they were planning this season as an "Enterprise origin story", which means that the previous Enterprise needs to be out of the way,
(b) they wanted that origin story to be about a weaker ship, not a mighty flagship like the Odyssey class,
(c) but they still wanted the Odyssey class Enterprise-F to exist SOMEWHERE in the timeline, to canonise the fan design,
(d) and they wanted the 24th century shows (like Lower Decks) to have the freedom to mess with the Enterprise-E's fate.
If you're in the writers room and you're trying to make all of those plans work at once, then implying that the E is long gone and inserting the F as the one being retired in the 25th century might look like the best compromise, even if it does make the lifespan of each ship surprisingly short.
It's not the decision I would have made - because I wouldn't have renamed the Titan-A at all, I want the show to have more legacy registries - but it is a decision I think is understandable within their POV at the time.
I don't think it's anything to do with opposition to fan-made designs, considering the Luna class is fan made too and they embraced that one and gave it multiple appearances.
It's bad enough that they renamed the Titan, destroying its legacy. But the Titan is also a journeyman of ships. It's not near powerful enough to be a flagship, something the Enterprise always was. The Enterprise D would own the Titan in battle, let alone the E!
Don't get me started on the E simply disappearing......
I was never a big fan of the Titan and really any other ship but the Enterprise getting a A, B, C etc at the end of it. Put the name on other ships sure but it's starts to dilute the importance if several ships all have it. If it was just the Titan then I'd have been upset with the Change but that's a personal preference. I took it in universe as they got their shit rocked and lost who knows how many high ranking officers so they had to work with what they had, out of universe...well no Shaw...so idk if I'd stick around for a new show featuring them. HE was a breath of fresh air for the series
I agree. The Titan just saved the quadrant, and in recognition, you erase its name.
The name “Enterprise” is a legendary one and watching the “D” being mothballed after saving the Federation one last time was heartbreaking. Keeping her name alive with the crew that helped save the Federation was befitting in honor of the crew and Picard, who led the way. I was fine with the change.
And no, the Titan helped save the quadrant. But was the Enterprise D which did the vast majority of the heavy lifting vs the Borg. Titan wouldn't have lasted against the Cube.
I think the nostalgia bait is not just two-fold but threefold as this is the 3rd Constitution style ship to bear the name Enterprise. I do think a new ship bearing the name Enterprise would've been better.
I think they should've built an another Constitution III and called Enterprise. I would've been more satisfied with that. I think there would be less grumbling.
Sorry for my pending all caps but OH MY GOD THIS VIDEO. YES YES YES YES. Hits the nail on the head about Trek and how it can be done correctly. Whether it's Star Trek: Voyager or Star Trek: Titan or Star Trek: Deep Space Nine - we can have stories about non-Enterprises. Yes, we ALL LOVE the Enterprise. Our first love. But damn, such a lost opportunity, like you said. Trek is nothing but about diversity, intellectual discussions, allegorical/moral/ethical commentary, tongue in cheek humor and YES even badass space battles ala "Sacrifice of Angels" to save the galaxy once more. They jumped the shark at the end. I fully expected like you said - Titan to be fixed up under Seven and go on adventures, then the Enterprise G (a brand new ship with those upgrades so it can't be hacked again like them getting rid of holo-comms after first season of DISCO because of the issues they had) can be there too. I also still think they can do a Titan under Riker, but that's too late now. That only could have worked around 2010 had there not been the interregnum post ST:ENT.
The Enterprise-E and the Enterprise-F were both done dirty out of pure spite. The Enterprise-E is apparently destroyed off screen completely disrespecting her 3 films. The STO crowd finally gets the Enterprise-F canonized, at its decommissioning, so they can shove a new Enterprise at us without any strings attached. There doesn't always have to be an Enterprise at all times. There was a 19 year gap between the Enterprise-C and the Enterprise-D. The Enterprise-F should have been the new Enterprise, not the old Enterprise, because it was always going to be a blank slate, since they were never going to follow STO.
You forgot to mention Picard's first ship of Stargazer.
titan A is a workhorse that earned the title and place
They should have left the name Titan on the ship, and let the legacy crew follow its own adventures. Let the Enterprise G be born sometime in the future. Titan, Voyager, Defiant, etc, they are all starfleet vessels and proud representatives of the UFP.
Totally agree. It's made me less likely to care about, much less watch ST legacy if it gets made. That together with the command crew makes me likely to skip.
Remember Shaw liked to keep things safe and go by the book. It wasn't til Picard and Riker came aboard for the Titan to a name those two with the help of seven made him a better captain otherwise he would have been forgotten
A well crafted essay for sure. The rebuttal would be. “Space: the final frontier. These are the voyages of the Starship Enterprise.”
i thought shaw was the best part of the show tbh
I think you're underplaying the original series here a bit. It's not just Uhura that was the diversity at the time.
The 1960's were the HEIGHT of the cold war. Having a Russian manning the weapons was a HUGE thing. There was still resentment towards Japan at the time, so having a Japanese man piloting the ship, was a big thing too.
Even with Uhura, they pushed the boundaries, they got in trouble for that onscreen interracial kiss.
But the key thing about Star Trek? It's never been "about" the things that are "pushing the boundaries". When Kirk kissed Uhura, the problem was that the Plutarians forced them to do it against their will, that robbing of free will was the conflict, not the kiss.
When in DS9 they had the onscreen lesbian kiss, it was "about" the symbiotes having been in a relationship in prior hosts and them doing so again being against their laws.
And I think that's (part of) why Discovery did so poorly, they made everything blatantly "about" the current thing, instead of just making the way they thought things should be seem normal and make the conflict something else.
The Sao Paulo only merit was to have come fresh off the assembly line, to have installed a defense device against the Breen weapon and to have made the
Mars - DS9 journey on its own. There weren't many toes to step on.
If anything, in my head, it should have been the Enterprise E being decommissioned, the F is launched (perhaps a rechristened USS Verity, Picard's last command), departing alongside the Titan A (to contrast with the final scene of Star Trek VI, where the Excelsior leaves for parts unknown, leaving the Enterprise A behind) with Seven, Raffi, and Jack staying aboard the Titan.
My favorite head cannon is that the Enterprise A was a mothball ship that they pulled out of storage to keep Kirk out of trouble. So renaming a second old constitution to Enterprise is entirely consistent with the Federation.
My first thought was also, "How do you rename a ship that just SAVED THE BLOODY FEDERATION!?" You've already got an Enterprise - in fact, you've got at least three - A, D, and F all still existed, though retired, at that point.
I also didn't get why the F was about to be retired. It was less than twenty years old, and Federation starships are designed with lifespans of at least one hundred years.
I would love to have seen the Enterprise-F being rebuilt at the end, and the others serving on the Titan-A.
To be perfectly honest, though, I was also a little bent out of shape that we got this new Neo Constitution class Titan, instead of Riker's Luna class Titan. Given how many STO designs made it into Picard Season 2 and 3, it's really disappointing that the Odyssey and Luna classes didn't play a bigger role.
My brain always assumed that the Sao Paulo was a brand-new ship that hadn't been commissioned yet when she was renamed Defiant. After all, Defiant was the prototype, and the class was only put into production when the Dominion War broke out, so all of them were pretty new ships at that point in time.
Same with renaming the Yorktown to be Enterprise-A - she was falling apart when the left Spacedock, obviously she wasn't finished yet.
I'm with you on every point there. I also don't see how in any universe the Titan A is in any way a "refit" of the Luna class. It's an entirely different layout and superstructure. I can get behind them reusing parts from it, like panels and so on, but to say it's the same ship with upgraded bits on is absurd. Put them next to each other and they look nothing alike short of the superficial saucer with toilet rolls on sticks design.
I seem to remember that the Sao Palo had just come off the production line?
Agree! But also from the point of view, that every sigle new ship caring the name Enterprise was bigger in dimensions. NX01 < NCC 1701 < A < B < C < D < E < F > G H < J (3,21 km) and Constitution V3 is the new Flagship? Sorry? But I think circus was in town.
I always assumed with the Sao Paulo that she was fresh out of the shipyards, so no one to tick off.
Who else wants a season on the USS Thunderchild ?
I do. I'd luv to watch a series with an Akira class as the hero ship since the Akira is one of my favorite ships in Star Trek.
Nah, it'll get melted by martians just when you think its about to win.
If my information is correct, the Titan was the last active duty Constitution III Class. The original Enterprise was a Constitution Class, which in a way of thinking brings Star Trek full circle and opens a door to a possible new series in the Constitution Class Enterprise.
Finally finished Season 3 of Picard so I can now watch this video and I fully agree. Enterprise F wasn't seen destroyed and there's no canon knowledge of that ship. It could still be the best of the best. I liked the Titan name should have stuck with it.
Good conclusion: I think the Enterprise B and C give credence to your argument too
I didn’t care for the Enterprise-F, BUT its design is both internally consistent and the happy medium between the flying Marriott Galaxy-class and the damascus steel katana of the Sovereign-class, exactly the flagship of a the fleet doctrine of Starfleet after the Dominion War
I really like the -F's design (especially considering it was made by a fan for a STO contest back in 2011). My main issue however is that it just feels slapped in, a hollow gesture designed to generate fan bait. I remember back in October when the -F showed up in the trailer and half the community lost their minds; and then the show aired and didn't do anything with it except immediately replacing it with the Titan-A.
The Titan should've kept it's name.
The best way to end it would've been for an admiral to contact La Forge and say something like "we need to get the Enterprise D back into service after these events. She's old though and will need a refit to be brought up to current spec. Do you think you can manage that?"
At this point La Forge hands the admiral a data pad with a design for a refit that has three nacelles. "She'll need an additional nacelle to keep up with modern power requirements, but yes, I've been thinking on it."
I agree.
The Titan has gained the right to a legacy of its own.
The scene itself, of the Enterprise G reveal, kinda works emotionally, but it's really rude and leaves a bad taste when you actually think about it.
I was expecting it to show USS Picard, or at the very least USS Shaw, to honour his sacrifice (even if he was an asshole lol). But nope. That took me right out of the moment of an otherwise fun episode. It just didn't sit with me right.
Sadly I saw it coming..
I hope that the first season of ST Legacy will feature a brand new Titan-B introduced that is now the fleet flagship and armed to the teeth. It would feel appropriate and honor the legacy properly. Also, considering Captain Seven's propensity for skirting the rules and causing trouble, I think giving her an older and less powerful ship is probably how Starfleet brass thought to allow her some leeway to cowboy around the alpha quadrant. The Enterprise was always a bit of a Maverick vessel and is in line with the path that Captain Seven will no doubt take.
The Titan fought the entire fleet and has earned the flagship role: make it strong and imposing. The Enterprise needs to be free to misbehave: Demote it to front line exploratory work.
You remind me of how Kirk got demoted back to captain for the express purpose of letting him maverick around some more.
Regarding the USS Sao Paulo, it had no service history. Immediately upon being launched from Utopia Planitia Shipyards it was crewed by a skeleton crew to transfer the ship to DS9 to replace the lost USS Defiant. She was launched on stardate 52889.3 and delivered at DS9 on stardate 52891.3. Sisko requested special dispensation to rename her the Defiant. I do agree that renaming the Titan-A the Enterprise-G was 100% nostalgia grab, especially since the Titan-A had a service history that spanned 5 years and 36 missions. You're right that they screwed up because the point of Star Trek was never the starships, it was the crew. The ship was just the set piece everyone played on, but how the crew interacted with each other and their adventures is what mattered. They should have honored the Titan-A and the sacrifices of her crew by allowing the ship to continue since she was an integral part of saving of the Federation. Make another Enterprise but keep the Titan-A. Paramount seems to constantly painting themselves into a corner like Star Wars did. Not everything has to revolve around the Enterprise, just like how everything in Star Wars doesn't have to revolve around; the Force, Jedi v Sith.
They should have slid into STO continuity with the whole "Lack of older captains" plot point being explained by the "Bog Event"
Yeah that was the stupidest thing ever to be done. They already rolled out a new enterprise then in the same breath destroyed it tookba beloved beta ship and slapped enterprise on it. Made me sick
Agreed. That was my biggest gripe about Picard season 3. The Enterprise-G should have been a brand new vessel, top of the line and with Seven in command. The Titan should have continued on as the Titan (but don't get me started on the convoluted timeline of the starships named Titan) and also a nod to Captain Shaw, where we might have caught a glimpse of a new starship that bears his name as well. That way, the USS Titan-A is protected, Shaw is honored and the Enterprise receives the recognition it deserves. But, that's just me...
Agreed
The problem is that Shaw gave the Titan to Seven. For her to leave the Titan for a new ship named Enterprise would be like discarding his sacrifice. So renaming the Titan to Enterprise, but still being the same ship with Seven in command would honor him.
@@Saiyan0X That goes into the writing. It feels that in this point in the season, the writing got a little lazy, relying on melodrama. Maybe Seven didn't have to take command of the new Enterprise in what I wrote above... Again, though, renaming the Titan-A as Enterprise -G was not the best move.
The worst and most dishonorable thing about the Titan is, that it lacks any and all elegance. It looks like a massive step back in starship design for Starfleet. It's just a depressing ship.
First, I think the Titan-A is a kit bash ugly ship that would have been good for a background shot at best. It's like someone took a Constitution refit, squished it, and then sneezed a bunch of random Star Destroyer parts on the top of it.
Honestly, the only way the Enterprise G should have existed would have been rechristening the Enterprise D Saucer and the Syracuse drive section as the Enterprise G and handing that to 7 of 9.
Or maybe have had the Enterprise E return from whatever universe it's currently in as they never said it was destroyed.
Titan was Liam Shaw's ship...Seven wouldve never been able to prove herself in command if it was maintained because that name will always be associated with Shaw. The rechristening was a correct one I believe. Despite all the animosity we saw, Shaw did believe Seven was Captain worthy. If he survived however, he might have brought fire and brimstone to those admirals for conjuring up the rechristening too
100% agree. The Titan being renamed to the Enterprise G is a slap in the face. There should have been a new Enterprise.
USS Yorktown was rechristened USS Enterprise-A in The Voyage Home. Things like this happen in real life navies, too. The Kirov was originally the Slava.
That ship is ugly, not beautiful like the Galor class.
You mean the Space Fork?
@@NashmanNash Space Tuners..
The only true beautiful ship is the Daedalus class 😅
Not to mention how STO fans got snubbed by how the long-awaited Odyssey class became canon just to be a stepping stone for the Titan.
I have been saying this on other channels, the USS Titan NCC-80102-A helped save Earth by holding back an entire Fleet of Borg controlled ships only to be given the middle finger and stripped of a legacy for no reason. If I where to have an Enterprise G it would be a sister ship of the USS Titan A and at least name a third ship the USS Liam Shaw in honour of him, robbing the Titan of a legacy after it helped save Earth from an invasion is just rude not to mention a taboo by real life naval standards.
What they should have done:
Keeping the USS Titan NCC-80102-A as it is.
Build sister ships called the USS Enterprise NCC-1701-G, USS Picard, USS Riker, USS Liam Shaw and the USS Legacy.
I couldnt agree more! It was a profound disrespect to the Titan A to do what they did to it. When a ship garners enough renown to lockdown the NCC, you do Not rename it, period.
I think we are all ignoring the root problem: the Enterprise F should've never been decommissioned so soon. So many fans have been wanting the Odyssey class Enterprise F to be canon, and it finally was canonized only to be trashed immediately and replaced with a garbage "Neo-Constition class". The Enterprise E should've been Shelby's flagship which got destroyed, then at the end in Spacedock it pans over to the new Enterprise F. That would've been perfect.
Even the U.S. Navy has been known to change names for ships. When the U.S.S. Hornet sunk during battle in WWII they renamed another ship the U.S.S. Hornet. AKA "The Grey Ghost". After the war some Japanese sailors said when the saw the Hornet they thought is was a ghost ship.
people say that the "Enterprise" is the most famous name in starfleet but ships like the USS Hood (Riker's old ship) exist - a ship that survived the Dominion War, the Borg incursion at sector 001 and was listed as part of the taskforce ordered to intercept the Scimitar. now that's a proper hero ship.
Or the USS Endeavour; a Nebula class (So cut-price Galaxy) that survived both Wolf 359 AND the Battle of Sector 001. A Nebula!! That's got to be a ship and a half as well.
People supposedly like to "complain" about Star Wars being too tied to the Skywalker legacy or whatever, but then Paramount took a shit on the Titan legacy by overwriting its name with Enterprise. Both are legacies at this point, peers in going incredibly above the call of duty across at least two ships of the name. To then go, "no no, Enterprise is more important than you, your reward for your recent accomplishments is to lose your legacy name to help boost another's"?
Disgraceful.
A Ross class would have been a fantastic enterprise -G
The "Enterprise" is a symbol. It oozes prestige, respect, and honor. Starfleet as well as humanity needed something to get behind, much like a country's flag. With the scar left by the Borg and resources drained (life and materials) it was the right call to rename a ship that showed it had heart. Remember how the statue of liberty save the day in Ghostbusters 2? Starfleet needed that as well. Not to win the day but a thing that people could look to, an idea manifested. That is the enterprise. For the Titan think of it as a promotion. That ship just got promoted to admiral.
I wasn't a fan at first. But now its a true legacy ship full of history and stories...I think its kinda cool. Plus the rest of the season was so awesome who really cares honestly. Everyone spending so much time trying to look at the glass have empty instead of half full🤷♂️
It was my understanding that the USS Sao Palo was a brand new ship. That had not entered service when the USS Defiant was destroyed. And I totally agree with you on renaming the Titan. My first reaction when I saw it was WTF?
Shaw is the man. He’s the only one who was right the whole time. Also discovery sucked.
For the first time,... I completely agree with your assessment!
Renaming the Titan-A to Enterprise-G also rubbed me the wrong way. 1: The Titan earned legendary status in its own right. They disrespected the legacy of the Titan-A by renaming it. 2: If they wanted a new Enterprise to appear at the end of the series they just could've shown a newly built ship and had Picard & co to send her off. It would've been fine if it was a Constitution III like the Titan-A. They could've even gave it some minor enhancements like the Enterprise-B which was a souped up Excelsior class.
3: The Enterprise isn't the only ship in Starfleet that matters. That's kinda the selling point of Starfleet within Star Trek. Starfleet is an organization filled with the best people and technology from across the Federation. Any ship could be a hero ship under the right circumstances which is why Voyager, Defiant, Stargazer, Excelsior, Thunderchild, Hood, Lexington, etc, are honorable names in Starfleet.
I’m guessing they thought fans would fall in love the Titan’s design more than the Enterprise F, which is just baffling. It doesn’t hold a candle to it. The Odyssey class is stunning next gen flagship material, and less than 20 years old at the time of S3.
Imagine the season finale of Voyager ending with the ship being rechristened as Enterprise.
Apparently Starfleet uses the name Enterprise like a gold sticker ⭐️ when you do good 😂
The Sao Paulo is a bad example too, it had seen no service prior to delivery to DS9. The only voyage it took was the trip from Planitia Utopia to DS9 for delivery.
The Sao Paulo was brand new AFAIK. It MAY have gone on to do great things and earn it's name, and it did, just as the Defiant. And certainly having the legendary Defiant rise from the ashes like a phoenix would be a great morale boost for the fleet before invading Cardassia.
When the Yorktown was rechristened to 1701-A(if we take that as canon) could have been a ship at the tail end of it's service that was already close to or at the end of it's life, and was given a service extension and renamed for Kirk and his crew. This could explain all the problems Scotty had in TFF. It was an old ship with a bunch of problems. Not every ship goes to the museum, most are scrapped. If this was going to be Yorktown's fate before STIV, then it's not nearly as disrespectful.
The Titan-A was instrumental in saving the federation, and deserved to fly under that name alongside the greats. Very disrespectful to that ship's lineage.
Show: Let's spend a season hyping up Shaw on the Titan, and be setting up a potential series.
Audience: Hey. There's some fun stuff. We do kinda want to see this as a series!
Show: Okay, we ended the season without Shaw or the Titan. We set up that series you wanted, right? Wait, where did everybody go?