Project Pathfinder was started after Starfleet found out that Voyager was in the Delta Quadrant when the Doctor had been sent to the USS Prometheus. Starfleet didn't even know Voyager was still in existence before the Prometheus event.
Don't forget the microwormhole that put them in touch with a Romulan science vessel in the past. The scientist may have shared the details with Starfleet before he died.
It is also possible Romulan intelligence intercepted or otherwise obtained the personal records of Telek R'Mor. At that point it is conceivable they might have traded the data for something to elements of the Federation. In time this would have contributed to the promotion of the Pathfinder Project and assignment of Barclay who had both the apptitude and personal characteristics to ensure unorthodox applications of the array would be considered internally, such as reaching Voyager.
but who is to say they did not already know much of this info but were only awaiting confirmation the ship was still viable, and not destroyed or captured. The Doctor angle really changes nothing.
@@DonaldDucksRevenge - and we know from DS9 that the Tal'Shiar had been compromised by section 31 by the 2370s. So if Romulan intelligence got R'Mor's report then so did 31. I wonder if Janeway's original first officer was a Section 31 plant... 🤔
And they say Seven of Nine was reaching in The Voyager Conspiracy... 🙂 This was Voyager's first mission. You don't send a deep space exploration vessel on a multiyear outing on its first trip out of space dock. Janeway herself explains in Caretaker that Voyager's relative small size and its bioneural gel packs allow the ship to manoeuver the Badlands more easily than other vessels. The Maquis mission really is an ideal shakedown cruise. First you get to spend a few weeks traveling through friendly territory, allowing you to work out the kinks in time for the Badlands. And with Tuvok retrieved, the senior bridge crew would be complete and Voyager could launch from DS9 for a new mission deeper into uncharted space.
Exactly! And the fact the Val Jean was in the Badlands was mostly coincidence, anyway. Tuvok could’ve given away their position anywhere in Maquis territory - much of it just coincidentally being in the Badlands - but it ended up being there, because that was where the Maquis planned to attack Gul Evek. There was no other reason both ships happened to be in the Badlands, at the time.
Starfleet is known for placing Trainees and Junior Officers in Senior Positions, likely because of testing and performance while at Starfleet Academy, Kim was likely an Cadet that had been a good Cadet, he lack some personal Judgement skills, but was a Good Cadet and seen as a Good Senior Officer for a new ship. Paris on the other hand was initially only their to provide insight into the Maquis, he was effectively on a Work-Release from Prison, his boasting about his piloting skills is what likely landed him the Senior officer position assigned to the Helm. It is possible the Voyager had other Junior Officers aboard but it is also likely that Voyager was operating on a Skeleton Crew for the Shakedown cruise. As another commentor noted, Starfleet thought Voyager was lost with all hands in the Badlands until the conclusion of Message in a Bottle when we find out that aboard the Prometheus that the Doctor Provided a Full Debrief on Voyager and it's activities in the Delta Quadrant. this initiates the Pathfinder Project. Again Starfleet is known for sending Cadets and Junior Officers into the field on Training voyages, as part of a Shakedown cruise, and as Junior Officers, it is likely that Kim fresh out of the Academy was assigned as a Senior Officer because of his performance in SFA and that a Shakedown cruise is considered a milk run. Had Voyager not been sent to the Delta Quadrant, Janeway would have provided Starfleet with a field Performance Evaluation of Ensign Kim and he would have either been promoted to Lt. Jr. or been reassigned as a Junior Officer on another ship. If Voyager is a Deep Space Exploration Ship, the permanent crew would have been composed of Officers that understood that they would not be returning to Federation territory for many years, Kim would not have been an ideal candidate for a Long-Term mission given his desire to stay close to home, made apparent when he violates SF rules and Regulations to find shortcuts.
The previous ships had been returned. No reason to think Captain McMurder would go off on a crusade. Starfleet had every reason to believe that voyager would be returned.
The reason Pathfinder looked in the delta quadrant was because Starfleet were told that they were there by the Doctor in "Message in a Bottle" in season 4.
Also the contact they made with the Romulans through the microwormhole. The Romulan end was in the past before Voyager was even built so it's entirely possible that Section 31 knew in advance.
I think most of us fans were really gratified when Barclay finally found Voyager after like 6 years. Voyager was closer to home than before and hope was reinforced. Luckily they didn't take the route toward the Gamma Quadrant!
Counterpoint: sending _Voyager_ to the Badlands to get Tuvok and some terrorists makes perfect sense if after that, it's going to be stationed at DS9 to explore the other side of the Bajoran wormhole. If they're going there anyway, just have them do a police raid on the way.
@@damenwhelan3236 The Equinox was destroyed, and her captain was deceased. As for her crew, they managed to save a few of them, and shortly after stripped them of rank for mutiny.
Largest unresolved plot point: Chakotay was considered important enough for Starfleet to send an officer as a deep cover operative and when lost Voyager to recover both, meanwhile, the Cardassians, (using RUclips spell-check) also considered Chakotay important enough to send one of their own, disguised as a Bajoran, to find Chakotay. This seems like a lot effort and resources to find one man AND NEVER GIVE ANY EXPLANATION AS FOR WHAT THAT REASON WAS!
I have been toying with this idea for a while. Janeway was a pet of Admiral Paris - a very senior starfleet admiral and probably had every confidence in her ability to carry out such a difficult mission and maybe sent his deadbeat son along with her hoping it would straighten him out. Voyager was one of the most state of the art ships in the fleet. A long range tactical vessel with impressive scientific and research facilities and like you said - incredibly fuel efficient and a long range. She had every chance starfleet could give her of being able to return from wherever she was sent. She could also land and carry out serious maintenance overhauls. I think they knew ships were disappearing in the badlands and knew if anyone could work out where they were going and who or whom was taking them it was Voyager. It was probably one of the very few ships in the fleet which would have the ability to carry out such a potentially hazardous mission in a way that even the Galaxy class cruisers probably wouldn't have been able to.
Pathfinder was looking for Voyager in the delta quadrant because the doctor told Starfleet where it was. He was sent to the alpha quadrant and fought Romulans with Andy Dick. Additionally, if it was the intention of purposely sending Voyager to the delta quadrant you would want a young crew like Harry Kim. After decades of returning, young crew will replace the older crew. You would want a somewhat trustworthy (to do what's in their best interest) person like Tom Paris is a completely alien situation to do the things the Starfleet personnel would find repulsive. Still though, if they wanted to get a ship there I have no doubt there would be more than enough ideologues in Starfleet to easily put together an all volunteer perfectly trained and manned crew. It would be the ultimate exploration. More than enough would go even if they knew they would never live to see earth again. Sorry, I disagree with everything you said 😆, but I do love the channel.
Did Lore Reloaded forget the other Federation ship which was taken by the Caretaker? It was half the size of Voyageur and it's crew didn't fare well... so they violate every Starfleet law in order to have a very slim hope of making it back to the Federation. I think by the time Voyageur encountered them, there was maybe 20 crew remaining... is this correct? That's the fate Voyageur should have had instead of the script writers magically repairing Voyageur, and somehow unkilling all the extra crew members, between story arcs... If the Federation _was_ going to explore the Delta Quadrant they wouldn't have chosen a small ship like Voyageur, they would have chosen a larger ship which _could_ allow the people on board to bring along their family... so that their moral would be high as such a mission _would_ be a decade long mission... so children getting older, becoming junior officers... some of _them_ having children by the time the ship returns. Of course, ideally, they would want an entire fleet of ships for such decade+ long mission. Several scout ships, like the Intrepid-class, to actually do the scouting and away missions, lead from a ship, like a Galaxy-class, outfitted as a mobile command post with 3 or 4 times the crew on board (to switch crews around of the other ships so all crews have a few months of R&R in a "safe" location while making sure the ships they were assigned to can still carry on with new orders), several smaller ships to act as protectors, like the Defiant-class, all supported by a fleet train which consists of a mining ships, a construction ship, at least 2 repair ships, and several other supply ships. All in all, a fleet of at least a dozen of ships, probably closer to 2 dozen ships, just to make sure the mission would be a success.
@@aralornwolf3140 The thing is, there were plenty of situations, where the presence of a fleet of Federation ships would have lead to destruction. Instead of a fleet of ships, I would have sent either a science star cruiser, or, if the Vesta was active, one of those ships, since it is a multi mission ship, and twice Voyager's size.
@@shauntempley9757 , Voyageur was captured and destroyed so many times in its seven TV seasons, that a single ship wouldn't have made it. As soon as _one_ aggressive species decided to take on that lone ship, it's gone. With a small fleet, with trained diplomats, they would be able to _avoid_ most of the altercations... maybe a little bit of trade (of information) for freedom of passage... perhaps a little bit of technology, or showing the species new mining/construction techniques would be enough. By having multiple ships, when there _is_ an altercation, there is a higher likelihood of those ships surviving... and thus the mission being completed.
@@aralornwolf3140 The thing with diplomats that you suggested, is that those species that did in fact destroy Voyager, would have pretty much returned with fleets themselves. I am saying there were a number of times that Voyager encountered entire sectors across their direct course, where a fleet would not have got through. These were everything from a species that had full control of their space, such as the swarm, 8472 and the Borg, to an entire sector of space that was full of natural anomalies that would have destroyed a fleet. In fact, there was a sector that had a vast drifting graveyard that was far larger and more denser than the Chintoka sector, the site of two battles during the Dominion War, except, this graveyard was the result of an armada of refugee ships that got decimated from the unstable environment. It turns out, that the instability was caused by attraction of those anomalies to warp energies of vast amounts. In each occasion, the main advantage was the simple fact that Voyager could avoid the worst of those situations because it was alone.
I think that a temporal causal loop story involving Section 31 and the Romulans would have made a good conspiracy story about Voyager and how it ended up on that mission. Remember the episode, "Eye of the Needle" where they find that micro wormhole and a Romulan scientist on the other end, followed by what Mr Barclay said in another episode involving the pathfinder project? "The Romulans have been curious about Voyager for years!" This was probably because the time space wormhole or, "Harry Kim Wormhole" as Mr Paris named it had a temporal displacement of 20 years IIRC, something they only discovered after transporting Romulan scientist Telek R'Mor on to Voyager through it. After discovering this they sent him back with letters from the crew which he said he would give to Starfleet 20 years later, however Tuvok discovered that he died 4 years before Voyager launched which meant he could not have sent the messages on. Torres then speculated that he may have left a will asking someone else to transmit the messages or given the computer chip from Voyager to the Romulan government. Based on what reg Barclay said, "The Romulans have been curious about Voyager for years" it would seem that they did get the letters they left with Telek R'Mor and were aware of what happened to the ship perhaps long before the events in Caretaker. It would make sense from their perspective to let this happen, they've wanted to explore the Delta quadrant for a long time but why risk one of their own ships when they knew two of ours made it? Val Jean and Voyager. It's possible Section 31 also knew about what happened beforehand given their clandestine connections with the Romulan empire, hence the nonsensical mission being launched in the first place. Temporal causal loop complete.
One of the books at the time said that Voyager's mission was going to be deep space exploration of the Gamma Quadrant, so them going to DS9 and detouring to retrieve a crewman before setting out makes some sense.
Voyager was probably sent because they thought the marquee had somehow destroyed the equinox and wanted answers so they sent a more powerful updated ship that could handle the job not knowing that they were captured by the caretaker array
@@DavidKnowles0 - possibly older. The Nova had that Sovereign vibe while the Intrepid was in that difficult transition period between Galaxy and Sovereign. The Intrepid still has the old Galaxy-style nacelles and escape pods. Plus the TNG tech manual states that the Nova was initially slated as a much bigger ship to replace the Galaxy. Clearly after the Borg and Dominion were discovered those plans changed. The Nova from Voyager is pretty much an early Defiant design with a secondary deflector in place of pulse phasers.
@@FirebirdPrince - if they'd sent the Defiant it would've been a much shorter show. Defiant has even less amenities than the Nova and can't even fire phasers without having to swap out the emitters. It would've lasted about a month in the delta quadrant.
Well, one could make the argument why Janeway and an Intrepid-class ship was send is: a) the new class shall get more tested under real-life conditions AND b) with it, the more non-combat focused Captains that flooded the ranks with the post Wolf359 rearmament program, get some actuall combat experence against a not serious thread like the Marquis, before they're send against a reall foe like this mysterious Dominion... and thats why you also keep back you best horses like a Sisko and Defiant.
Janeway had combat experience though, she fought the Cardassians and in one episode recalled a 3 day siege where her squad was cut off and was in a continuous fire fight.
It makes sense. Send an expendable crew on a risky mission, but make sure if they disappear, they are on a ship that is designed to handle long term journeys with no outside aid. For Star Fleet command it is a win-win. They find out what happened to the previous ships, while having their latest ship, Voyager, explore the unknown areas that Star Fleet could not otherwise reach. This is likely why when Voyager returned, Janeway was promoted to Admiral. To keep an eye on her and pay her off. It is likely the rest of the crew of Voyager was paid off as well in someway for their silence. To be fair, on their journey, Voyager created around as many messes as their solved.
It is hard to believe they didn't know. as the region would have been in constant sensor surveillance. they would have seen other ships taken by the energy wave. Plus another ship was lost in the same way long before. They would have been able to track the direction of the wave. They new where to start looking. I am sure the Midus array was already under development before voyagers departure. The crew chosen wasn't the best of the best, otherwise expendable. As for Barkly. He was changed by alien technology. He was fundamentally changed and would have been able to use knowledge on at least on a subconscious level.
i see it that way : Intrepid was brand new type of ship - in essence it was in it's shakedown period - so they gave janeway an easy mission - grab some terrorists (in a far inferior vessel in comaprison to Janeway's) thus stopping some Maqui terroris activities - and in the same time grab some of their personel for interrogation (to get more info as well) all the while giving the ship itself a rather mild trashing to see if it works properly - in that setup Janeways mission makes a lot of sense - on top of that keep in mind Tom's father was an admiral - so he might have quietly pushed the mission forward as well in order to get his kid out of prison and send him on the "clean slate" if he pulled throught the mission properly - sure it's a therory but if an admiral wanted to get his kid out of prison "properly" then that would be a good way to do it as it would check all the usuall federation check boxes (grab terrorists - check, check out new ship - check - good PR - check - and getting your no good son out of prison - check. So giving the ship an easy mission first before sending it of on a REALLY long journey to check it ouf first under those conditionts makes a lot of sense.
didn't the caretaker say it had been scanning the entire galaxy and taking ships? if it had been doing this for a while and returning ship to their point of origin, then it is possible starfleet knew about the caretaker and had sensor reading of the displacement wave and detected the very same wave when the Val Jean disappeared. and well if Voyager didn't make it back it was one small ship, a green captain and limited crew
I can't wait for Changeling Janeway to make an appearance in Picard next week. That will open up a whole new world of Lore Reloaded conspiracy theories!
This is a sound theory of why Voyager was picked for the assignment. However, Janeway turned out to be more resourceful in the end, also got a lot of help from crew and Seven to get back to Earth. And they brought back a lot of technology including Borg enhanced ship armor plating.
This is more than it was first thought out. This video gives a better explanation as to why the whole series started with in the first place. Starfleet knew about it, but weren't in charge of it. I can see Sector 31 doing that. And they had someone inside as intelligence. (I'll get back to this.) And at some point his equipment got damaged so he couldn't always send messages. Who? I have only two guesses. Nicholas Locarno/Tom Paris or Tuvok. Paris? For his crimes in Starfleet being dropped. or Tuvok who wouldn't have a problem keeping it a secret. And I will take it a step further. Not only tech but also information. What if they found another race that Starfleet could partner with to make them stronger than the Romulans? At the time Starfleet and Romulus were equals (Almost) and enemies as well. And what if they could figure out how to use the method the ship was transported by examinig Voyager if and when it got back to Earth. That itself would be considered worth the whole ordeal. This is just off the top of my head.
Let us not forget (ALL) of Seven's Theories on this matter before Janeway reeled her back, which is worth reviewing & might give us more insight to this matter.
I’ve often gotten stuck on why they sent voyager after Tuvok when the defiant or another closer ship to get him or find out what happened or even use intelligence assets within the maquis or even Cardassia to find out what happened to him. Seemed like over kill and too much time invested for such a mission
Defiant was on either a first contact mission to the Dominion, or an exploration mission in the Gamma Quadrant at the time, if memory serves. It was a mission that required everyone except Quark. Even Odo was off on that mission.
What if Voyager was sacrificed to destroy the caretaker array so that no other Federation ship gets scooped up? After all they did have just the right amount of tricobalt devices to X the array...in this scenario, even if the caretaker didn't die, Janeway would still find some other way to justify to her crew why they must destroy the array... Janeway was in on it, but after living and bonding with her new crew she eventually goes back in time to undue some of the damage Star fleet did to them... The end
I always thought the only reason Janeway got a command in the first place is because of the looming Dominion war. Starfleet was expanding it's fleet and had to lower it's standards. Wouldn't surprise me if the entire Voyager crew were just the bottom of Starfleet's minimal acceptable standards and all shoved into one ship to absorb fire meant for a defiant class. Which is why it was picked to get whisked away to the Delta Quadrant. Voyage only really made it back because Janeway was a complete psychopath, which made her perfect Starfleet Admiral material.
Intrepid class vessels spent the whole war playing diplomatic and scouting roles because they were the fastest in the fleet and had the absolute best sensors before sovereign came out. Admiral Ross used one as his command ship. Also star fleet was terrified that one of the ships would fall into dominion hands so they kept them safe. The technology onboard was cutting edge so the crew were highly qualified, except Janeway obviously who got the command despite being a science officer and never holding command before because daddy was an Admiral. All these ships went to Admirals expect the one that went to an Admirals unqualified daughter. wink wink.
It would actually be rather ironic if by sheer coincidence every single section 31 operative died when voyager was pulled into the delta quadrant. We know the first officer, Doctor and chief engineer died as well as a hand full of others, leaving only Janeway and Tuvok as the original senior staff, if you were doing a covert ops path finding mission and were a cell based ntelligebce network, you simply wouldn’t have the resources to send a dedicated S31 ship fully crewed with S31 operatives, you’d send a ship of the line with a handful of operatives embedded and at key positions to easily carry out the S31 missions. You’d want the FM and Doctor positions at the very least as that makes things easy in a lot of ways and maybe 3-5 rank and file operatives for away missions.
Pathfinder knew to look in the delta quadrant because of the doctor being sent to USF Prometheus the pan fry their project had been started until after the doctor I've been sent there
All these posts and no one's brought up the Tri-Cobalt weapons? A WMD from 70 years earlier, a different Starfleet, a weapon that was only eclipsed by the Quantum Torpedo. A weapon that was _not_ part of a standard load out but by happenstance was pulled out of mothballs, refurbished and loaded up on a state of the art explorer with a green captain and crew. Why? 🤔
Exactly !! Seven was right about the whole conspiracy but once she went off on a tangent in the second half of the episode all those facts were conveniently ignored
I can't recall, was the Pathfinder Project initiated once Voyager made contact with the Alpha Quadrant via the Hirogen network? Then they were able to pass along further information to Starfleet HQ via the Prometheus this way giving the Pathfinder Project even more of a localization of where Voyager is? I may be wrong, I haven't seen the series in over 20 years.
Early in season 1,weren't they able to find a very small wormhole that led back to Romulan Space, in the past ?. i recall they they beamed him through the wormhole and he took messages back with him. It was reported that he had died a while ago ,but what about those messages? If 31 got a hold of those messages ,they would have a list of who is supposed to be on Voyager and saw the potential .
Section 31 may have infiltrated the Tal Shiar before 2371, so they would have know about a Federation ship from the future called Voyager being trapped in the Delta Quadrant.
@@VestedUTuber How would the DoTI know unless someone working for both S31 and DoTI passed on the information to their DoTI colleagues? I imagine the DoTI would have a number of S31 operatives in it's ranks as a matter of course. Temporal matters would be of great concern to S31.
@@blitzerblazinoah6838 Other way around. S31 may be the "behind the scenes" covert ops and intelligence agency of the Federation, but they're still tied to their timeline. DoTI has jurisdiction over and beyond them for the purposes of maintaining the stability of the timeline, and likely has agents planted within S31. Plus they have means of monitoring the timeline itself, so they could easily have identified the initial crossover point afterwards and sent an agent over to that crossover point. Heck, the Romulan receiving the message could have been a DoTI agent in disguise. Or not even in disguise, but just from a point in time after the destruction of Romulus.
Since they decided they needed Tom Paris's intel to complete this particular mission and Tom Paris was in a prison camp in New Zealand, It would make no sense to send the defiant or any of the closer ships all they way back to earth and then back out again. It makes total sense that a ship already at earth would do the transporting. Other than that minor point, you make an excellent argument.
1: Voyager was equipped with new tech that made navigating the badlands easier. 2: While the runabouts might be able to handle the Val Jean in combat Voyager was better equipped for a fight. Plus neither the Defiant nor the runabouts were equipped with the bio neural tech that made it safer and easier for Voyager to navigate the Badlands. 3: Voyager was an exploration ship, and DS9 made a perfect staging area for exploration missions into the Gamma Quadrant. They pick up Tuvok, seize or destroy the Val Jean then resupply, make any needed repairs, and launch on an exploration mission. 4: Paris was only on board because his knowledge of Maquis hiding spots was useful to the hunt for the Val Jean. He wasn't a member of the crew until the original helmsman was killed during the transition to the Delta Quadrant. 5: As many other people have mentioned why are you ignoring the fact that Project Pathfinder knew where Voyager was because the Doctor briefly returned to the Alpha Qy=uadrant and told them where Voyager was?
What you're saying ties in well with the events of The Voyager Conspiracy. It seems that Seven was indeed correct in her assessment that Voyager had been brought to the Delta quadrant intentionally by Starfleet, but wirhout the knowledge of the Equinox being lost her conclusion as to why this happened (to bring Seven home) and thinking Janeway was complicit in it was flawed.
If I remember correctly, Janeway took the mission because of her connection to Tuvak. She volunteered and SF agreed given Voyager's good weaponry. That made them a perfect candidate to go.
I most respectfully disagreee with this conspiracy theory. Frist: Starfleet sent unsuitable ships on unfitting missions for its class before. Remember it sent a Galaxy class ship on transport missions. Second: Captain Janeway was the Captain of choice. She is a friend and the contact of Tuvok on his mission and he is her tactical officer. Starfleet has a benefit by using Janeway to find the marquis. As a former science officer she seems predestined to traverse the Badlands and find the Marquis ship. Third: Starfleet knew the type of Marquis vessel. Though Runabouts could have been used, it poses the question what to do when the Raider was captured. Brig the crew and tow the Raider out of the Badlands by a Runabout seems unfitting. Adding the fact that Runabouts lack in its shielding capabilities. Voyager's more capable shielding, its manoeuvrability, vast facilities and technological enhancements made her more suitable for this mission than a Runabout. Fourth: Catching the Marquis ship has been Voyager's first mission. The Enterprise-D's first mission was to check the facility Farpoint. These missions can be seen as "post-launching test missions" to get the fleas out of the machine. The point is first missions are not always glorious and fitting to the class. But I appreciate your work!
I came up with almost that exact theory decades ago when Voyager encountered the other Starfleet ship lost in the Delta... for a few similar reasons. I also factored in that they sent a LONG-RANGE ship to such a place with literally expendable crew and operatives... so, minimal cost of lost... can trek home if survive (with super-valuable intel). They also could believe that the tech superiority of that era's Federation could help, their scanners were great enough for them to dodge detected Borg and speed that were great enough to just outrun them... and, if assimilated, they could recover some Borg drones in Federation space if used as pawns like Picard. Decades ago, we had a lot of very interesting conversations about this... which kind of fell apart to just watching the show when they nerfed-down the Borg more so than the only movie that they were in.
For having no command experience, Kathryn Janeway was an excellent Captain 6:01 Pathfinder started after the Doctor communicated with Starfleet Command and apprised them of their situation
I could see Voyager being sent on this mission because it would have the science systems needed to determine what happened to vessels that were going missing. Its possible they also wanted to see how well an Intrepid Class could navigate the Badlands in comparison to other ships that had been sent out that way. Combined with the fact that Janeway knew Tuvok quite well, and those would make sense as Starfleet's reasons for doing this. However, the reasons you described would also make sense for Section 31, if they did have a hand in this decision.
That’s why star fleet is experimenting with different drive systems to be able to go further in less time thanks to voyager they left bread crumbs behind the deeper in the delta quadrant they went and charted most the delta quadrant already so if star fleet decides to go to the delta quadrant on purpose they will know what areas to avoid Star fleet really didn’t want to risk sending another ship after them they would have probably gotten completely lost
With Star Trek Discovery playing with the idea of changelings being around much sooner and the fact that Odo is an accepted figure at the beginning of DS9, also lends to the possibility that not Star Fleet, but the Dominion may have sent an invader, before Voyager took off. Here is a one of a kind ship, the Equinox also being one, a rouge changeling in a high position could be cleverly getting rid of new tech, arguing the need to use it or demonstrate its power on a “uneventful trip”. Keep in mind, we really don’t know how far of reach the Dominion had.
Another possibility didn't consider is that if it was Section 31 who did it, it could be related to the Borg. They roughly know where the Borg is, and if they already know that The Caretaker would take them to the Delta Quadrant as a one-way trip, they can learn awful lot about their opponent, and use a ship that could survive the trip and the Borg to gain important intelligence to counter them. Though of course as we all know it worked a little _too_ well, and they ended up _taking out_ most of the Borg.
This actually might be one of the reasons why they promoted Janeway when they returned instead of kicking her out of Starfleet for violating the Prime Directive.
I think actually a lot of it was a good idea sending Voyager to the Badlands 1. Janeway was a good pick in my opinion for Captain because she was a scientist first and during a time when Starfleet was building more heavily armed ships like The Prometheus, Ambassador Class, and Defiant it Voyager was a ship designed for more scientific and explorative purposes 2. Tom Paris was perfect for helmsman because you have a starship capable of operating inside the atmosphere of a planet and going into a very tricky region of space so it would help to have a good pilot. Also he’s a convict and his father is an admiral the idea is he gets sent on this easy mission of going after a Maquis ship where they have a man on the inside. 3. The Maquis did have sympathizers in the federation. It does make sense to pull the crew from a bit further away hoping to get people that weren’t working with the Maquis.
Sending ships from far away means less grief from yet another Cal Hudson, or Tom Paris, or Ro Laren. Assign someone to that general area, say, one Michael Eddington, and let him get close, and there's a fair chance he'll go rogue. Reduce the risk of that by rotating your personnel and assets frequently.
By sending your tech into an unknown zone you can’t reach you basically increase the oddds of your enemy knowing your tech and making counters rather you will gain
A fun idea but I'm not sold on this one. The Intrepid class is a long-range explorer designed to be able to operate on the fringes of Starfleet territory efficiently and effectively. This kind of design is not new (Constellation class for example), but in the modern-era, the ship is designed to be able to handle itself in most situations. And you don't put your best tactical mind in charge of a ship that is not going to be a front-line combat vessel, you put them on Akira's, Defiant's and Sovereign's. Just like the USS Stargazer, you put an explorer on your long-range explorer. I've always assumed Janeway got the USS Voyager because she was the 'favourite' of several admirals; she served with Admiral Paris and appears to be Admiral Patterson's protégé, so I've always taken it that strings were pulled on her behalf to get a fancy new Intrepid class. As for the Badlands mission; that's also easily explained. For one, an officer of Voyager is there, so it's natural for any captain to want to recover their officer personally and is not outside of Janewya's character to insist on that, and again she may have benefited from friends in high-places in getting that. Plus, the mission on paper is a milk-run: take one of the newest, fastest, most advanced ships in the entire of Starfleet that is built to handle rough treatment into an unstable region to capture a tiny, ancient, badly damaged ship being maintained on a shoe-string, probably with detailed intelligence on where it goes. It's perfect for a brand new rookie crew to get an easy first win under their belt. Plus, while Starfleet may have had an idea what causes the disappearances, it's likely they have absolutely no idea if the ships survive. And let's not forget, the Nova class were hardly old ships, and yet USS Equinox vanishes in just the same way. Nova's were just as modern as the Intrepid's and expected to handle themselves in situations far beyond what a mere science-vessel should be able to, I would expect a Nova to be able to wreck a Miranda for example, so (from what we know admittedly) Starfleet has not idea if Voyager would fare any better than any other ship that has disappeared in the Badlands. You don't risk one of your newest, most advanced assets on a "probably". No, to me Janeway's appointment to Voyager makes sense in that she suits the vessel's primary peace-time missions and her being well-liked by several admirals is likely how a rookie captain got an Intrepid class. It's unfair on other officers, but not malicious in my view. And she proves she's not incompetent or undeserving of that rapid advancement given she brings said asset home intact. Fun thought experiment though, definitely enjoyed the video. I obviously don't wear a big enough Star-Trek conspiracy hat.
One point you are leaving out is that Starfleet wanted Tom Paris along to lead whatever ship went into the Badlands to the Maquis base. Paris was in prison on Earth, so they needed a ship from Earth to take Paris to the Badlands. Since Voyager was there and needed some time to adjust to her new captain and had some new, experimental tech, as well as Tuvok being the chief of security for Voyager, this made it the best ship to use.
Its an interesting theory but what is much more likely is A: Starfleet even before Wolf 359 and Dom war were already stretched WAY too thin. Hence why androids and holograms are focused technologies. B: Command could have sent a closer crew but they were already on assignment and a new ship would not yet have one. C: The missions objective being so narrow in scope would make it perfect to serve as a "shake down" mission for the newly minted ship before everything got delivered on Tuesday. I used to work in EMS serving as a dispatcher. Circumstances often force you to not go with "the closest" option. I could only imagine how much worse it would be for a galactic organization compared to a tiny company with a 50 mile service area range. So your premise "why wouldnt they send someone closer" is not as sound as it might seem. There is always a difference between theory and practical application.
One thing: Except for maybe Sisko, and the way other SF Officers act around the topic, it is not unlikely that Starfleet Comman did not see the Maquis as a serious threat. I am very certain that this mission Voyager was sent on was seen by Starfleet Command as trivial at best. Nothing too much to worry about. And it's not unlikely that this mission was a test for Janeway as with the Maquis there'd be multiple possible and likely ways to handle the mission. She'd have to pursuit and fight without needless violence, she'd have to track them down in hostile terrain and she'd very likely have to use her diplomatic skills along the road just as well. All in all, if Starfleet considers this a trivial mission, this would have made a great entrance mission for a new captain to see if they can actually handle it. Also, Starfleet was very trusting in the Maquis to not lethally attack Federation Vessels. And rightfully so, the Maquis went very great lengths to actually avoid fighting the Federation.
Interesting points. Possible. But not plausible. A few gaping holes in this theory. 1. Voyager didn't have its second warp drive, Aero Shuttle or other systems installed. 2. Additional provisions would have been held (fuel, gel packs, medical supplies, etc) 3. A proper communication system would have been installed. 4. Voyager would have been kitted out with more sensors, shields and weapons than a dozen Defiants. 5. You would send more experienced and specialized personnel. Janeway was too green. So was Kim. Additionally, "Message in a Bottle" dispels the point of how Starfleet knew they were in the Delta Quadrant.
the caretaker didnt seem opposed to sending ships back after examining them. Just that with voyager there was "no time". So there is a chance that the federation knew of such a vessel
First I'd like to say that we don't know how experienced the voyager crew was when they were being set out. We know about main Characters like Kim, Janeway, and Paris but remember around half the crew of voyager died when scooped by the caretaker including the entire medical staff save one hologram and the voyager's second in comand. In other words it's very possible that there were members of the crew present with the experience required to handle the Maqi and the badlands that we never got to know over the course of the show because they died in the first episode. We could have had a counceler trained in hostage negotions, a chief engineer who's an expert in maqi weaponery, a second in command with a history surving the badlands and capaple of assisting Janeway and assessing her abilities to be in long term command of Voyager based on how she handels an unexpected and personal situation that can easily happen on a long voyage. Second Janeway's personal history with tuvok could prove a valuable asset. For example it is very likely that they lost contact with tuvok because he was found out, the Maqi could then let's say capture tuvok and when the see Voyager force hime to send out a message to make them leave or fall into a trap. Tuvok seeing Voyager and knowing Janeway's in command could hide personal details in the message that don't add up who Janeway would immediately pick up on, depending how well they know eachother he can even use their personal history to send out some coded messace or hint towards the Maqi's plan. Or durring hostage negotiacians she could bring up personal details about tuvok and speak to his character to draw respect and sympothy from the Maqi. After all the Maqi are still people after all who served with Starfleet and Starfleet is not their direct enemy, it's not unreasonable to say they wouldn't be willing to negotiate. As for why not the defiant we don't really know what sisko and the others were doing at this time, they could have been on any number of important behind enemy lines missions we do or don't see and may have been deemed too valuable to risk sending to the badlands for this mission. Given the overclocking of the defiant's systems it could have been weak to power surges or "space lightning" or something in the badlands that Voyager was better equiped for. Roundabouts may not have been a good idea either given the dangers of the badlands.
@Lore, According to the DTI novels, Starfleet did know about Voyager being stuck in the Delta Quadrant and wanted them to follow through, because without this event, according to 31st Century Starfleet, there was no possible future timeline where the Federation or any civilization other tan the Borg Collective would exist by 26th century. Essentially, this was their Dr. Strange type damage analysis, send Voyager into the Delta Quadrant, where they will do what they would and eventually get tech and/or kill the Borg in the final outcome. I like that explanation.
Re; Janeway as captain. You've probably never been in the military..which is fine but if you had you'd have instantly recognized that Janeway has a "Rabi". This a a slang term for someone with pull that's taken an interest in you and your career and proves the whole ( it's not what you know but WHO you know). Then there's the good ol habit of advancement for officers-people who've taken certain classes over FAR more qualified people who hold their superior upon their shoulders and often run along the razors edge of manipulating, "advising ",ignoring, actually being in control but not command with the newbie officer's ego and need to succeed. Done well everyone's better off for it. Yeah or I'm completely wrong and don't know what I'm talking about. It's probably one of those. Thank you for the upload. Great as per usual. Semper Fidelis
You're missing one big thing and that is what was part of Voyager's comment? Onboard Voyager, they had a complement of Tri-cobalt warheads that they had used to destroy the array-- but that is not a normal complement to have. Tri-cobalt warheads are basically a much bigger version of a nuclear warhead and as such they are weapons of mass destruction that Voyager was carrying in it's arsenal. That would suggest that Voyager's mission wasn't just about picking up their operative but actually about forcing the surrender of the Maquis-- there would be no other reason why you would arm a ship like that. I think Voyager's mission was actually darker than we may think and for Starfleet-- it would make sense for them to put a new captain in charge of such a mission who wouldn't likely question the orders and also put The Tri-cobalt weapons on ship that could handle them but also be able to navigate the badlands as well. I would say that Voyager's mission was about ending the Maquis but instead they got snatched up into the Delta instead.
Section 31 could have found out from operatives in the Cardassian Union or Obsidian Order, we do know that a Galor Class vessel was pulled to the array and sent back that vessel would have gathered info on the area of space around the array. Project Pathfinder wasn't green lit until after the events of Message in a Bottle where the Doctor told starfleet where Voyager was in the Delta Quadrant.
Part of the problem here is that there are literally a hundred ways to lose a ship within the Alpha quadrant. I cite the three series worth of Trek up to that point. The “ship gone missing” story is as old as the Galileo Seven. It’s part of the inspiration for Voyager itself. So Starfleet know of missing ships, but they have no way to know if they’ve crash-landed on a planet, been destroyed by a space anomaly or taken captive. The episode about the slipstream drive that went wrong discusses in the future how Starfleet couldn’t find the ship, even though it crashed into a frozen planet(and Harry and Chakotay found a vessel that Starfleet couldn’t).
At the time Voyager was shipped to the Badlands, the Dominion had already been infiltrating various Alpha/Beta Quadrant worlds with changelings. There were changelings on Earth. Who's to say that the Dominion didn't help orchestrate Equinox and Voyager (with plans to do the same to others) to reduce Federation resources in the inevitable war.
This video is what happens when Lore Unloaded is played late-night on the History Channel. All that was missing was that one guy with the wild hair saying "Aliens". 😅😅😅
Or you know. The defiant, runabouts, and other heavy hitters were busy patrolling to keep the dominion/cardassians at bay, while also more ships patrol the neutral zone in case the romulans decide now is their time. Not to mention while the voyager was new, under crewed, and still experimental they needed to bring ships into service as fast as possible doing any sort of combat test they can.
I notice how that era of trek, science ships were strategic and less tough and explorer ships were tactical and very tough. Very clever way of hiding military functions behind " science and exploration". The defiant wasn't labeled an explorer, but it did follow the pattern of a tough ship that had a lot of tactical capabilities. And if you don't think a launchable exploding deflector head is tactical, then I'm sorry I can't help you with words.
Remember the Romulan that Voyager talked to in the 1st season, who turned out to be from 22 years in the past? He said he would make a full report on it, and there's no doubt he did. There's also no doubt that Section 31 has people in the Tal'Shiar. I get that this turns into a wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey thing, but it wouldn't be the weirdest time paradox for Voyager.
Your analysis overlooks the fact of mission duration during your ship selection process I think . This was an open ended mission when Janeway was sent after Tuvok . The Defiant /Runabouts are not intended as long range ship regardless of what else they are , not for months .
As said, starfleet found out Voyager was in the delta quadrant through the doctor's little adventure. They may also have known through the Romulans and decided to not interfere with time (if the Romulans even passed the messages and starfleet believed them...). Voyager being sent after the maquis ship definitely makes sense. It's a brand new ship, a brand new crew, and a brand new captain. A simple search and detain mission would have been a perfect shake down for starfleet to see if the ship, crew, and captain performed as they should. Voyager was top of the line and outclassed the maquis ship they were after in every possible way by lightyears. You don't throw a newly promoted captain in the deep with a brand new ship and inexperienced crew (that's a good way to lose ship and crew). You sent them out on some easy missions first, evaluate performance, and if then found it's working out, you give them the bigger jobs. You also don't promote someone form first officer of a destroyer to captain of an aircraft carrier either. You want to know how someone handles a first command. Voyager was a small ship with a rookie crew and so got a job that Sisko and his crew could have done with their eyes closed. At least, that would have been the case if it wasn't for the caretaker. Voyager then would likely be used for exploration in the gamma quadrant. Being sent ever deeper into the gamma quadrant as they gain more experience with such missions. Besides, the Intrepid class were versatile ships able to perform multiple missions. It was also a very though design (as opposed the Galaxy class, which was a glass cannon). It's likely a place like the badlands would be more suited for an Intrepid or Defiant class ship rather then an old Excelsior or even a Nebula or Galaxy. Voyager was made to take a beating and the badlands provide plenty of beatings. And starfleet would sent a though ship as ships have a habit of disappearing in the badlands more often then in other places. Between hostile forces and negative space wedgies, starfleet is used to ships going off the 24th century radar. So while the badlands was a notorious place, occasionally losing a ship wouldn't have raised any alarms with the admiralty that something more may be going on then meets the eye. As far as starfleet could tell, it was just a dangerous area of space and that is nothing new to them.
I believe there is one thing we can all agree on is that Star Trek writers aren't always consistent. Don't get me wrong I love ST, but there are many plot holes for which the hardcore fans like myself, are all to happy to overlook because ST stories are so entertaining. It would be amazing that this theory could be possible, but alas, I don't believe that the narrative would be so deep to have such a possability within the lore.
Admiral Hanson must've been a section 31 asset. The episode the voyager conspiracy definitely lends credence to the possibility that section 31 sent two ships to the delta quadrant, voyager and equinox, possibly in concert with the obsidian order, because a cardassian warship was sent as well, and Seska was part of it as well. The cardassians goal was to gain a foothold in the delta quadrant. Section 31 was to scout the area with Voyager
But in 'Death Wish' when Q showed up after the crew released Quinn from his prison, he assumed that Quinn had been responsible, and said that the Federation were not due in that section of the galaxy for at least a century. So the Caretaker it seems also altered history? Or at least history as the Continuum knew it. One to ponder?
You know your right about the Badlands, why send voyager when the defiant who is experienced in the area and also can cloak was on the edges of the place being stationed at DS9?
Sometimes things are as simple as they seem. Voyager has advanced sensors allowing it to cope with the Badlands sensor interference, and a relatively well-armed ship is needed in case the Cardies decide to interfere. It's a solid first mission for an unproven class, challenging but near to DS9 if reinforcement or resupply needed. As for the evidence that you provide, far from the Pathfinder project being underway before Voyager establishes contact quite the opposite. The Voyager has been declared missing in action, and it's only when The Doctor is transmitted to the Prometheus by means of the vast Hirogen communications network that Starfleet know to look in the DQ for Voyager.
It would make more sense as an "inside job" if Voyager's true mission had been to investigate the Badlands, and deploy probes and sensor arrays. A simple-sounding mission with little room for wild adventures would put them right where Section 31 would want them, without any pretense of urgency or anything else. Then, when they disappear "by accident," it's not exactly accidental. The ship arrives in the Delta Quadrant equipped to explore. The story could still have them run across stranded Maquis and be forced to cooperate when they discover "the enemy of my enemy is my friend," and that they won't escape the situation without sticking together. Frankly, I hated the fact that Voyager didn't get to keep those Ju'Day class Maquis ships and assemble a small flotilla instead of a single ship to head back to the Alpha Quadrant. I would have loved to see them keep the Equinox as well, but end up being forced to turn over the alternative propulsion that was developed. They could fly those ships along with Voyager, and maybe end up scrapping them and recycling their materials and components as they each get more worn out, adding the parts that work onto Voyager to give them a moderate advantage (a little armor plating here, extra phaser strips there, extra support struts to reinforce something, etc.). It would've made the show much more visually interesting, and given them some ways to punch a little above their weight class in an emergency, instead of "inverting the technobabble matrix to overload the gelato machine for quantum targeting accuracy."
Starfleet sending ships on missions other than they’re designed for, gee that never happens. It’s not as if the Defiant, one of if not the most powerful ship in the Federation, was often sent on exploration and scientific missions, and Oberth class ships definitely didn’t fight at Wolf 359. Honestly this all seems far fetched. If Starfleet sent Voyager out intentionally to get abducted, that was basically a death sentence, there was absolutely no guarantee they would survive to make it back to the Federation.
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Project Pathfinder was started after Starfleet found out that Voyager was in the Delta Quadrant when the Doctor had been sent to the USS Prometheus. Starfleet didn't even know Voyager was still in existence before the Prometheus event.
the doctor probably gave them a rough estimate of the course Voyager would be taking.
Part of the plan
@@qwilliams1539 all to convenient don’t you think?!??
My thoughts exactly.
I’ll bet you guys believe the moon landing was faked too
Barclay and the Pathfinder project knew they were in the DQ because The Doctor gave Starfleet Command a full briefing in Message in a Bottle.
Or... starfleet learned from other ships or other powers where the ships where being taken...
Don't forget the microwormhole that put them in touch with a Romulan science vessel in the past. The scientist may have shared the details with Starfleet before he died.
It is also possible Romulan intelligence intercepted or otherwise obtained the personal records of Telek R'Mor. At that point it is conceivable they might have traded the data for something to elements of the Federation. In time this would have contributed to the promotion of the Pathfinder Project and assignment of Barclay who had both the apptitude and personal characteristics to ensure unorthodox applications of the array would be considered internally, such as reaching Voyager.
but who is to say they did not already know much of this info but were only awaiting confirmation the ship was still viable, and not destroyed or captured. The Doctor angle really changes nothing.
@@DonaldDucksRevenge - and we know from DS9 that the Tal'Shiar had been compromised by section 31 by the 2370s. So if Romulan intelligence got R'Mor's report then so did 31.
I wonder if Janeway's original first officer was a Section 31 plant... 🤔
And they say Seven of Nine was reaching in The Voyager Conspiracy... 🙂
This was Voyager's first mission. You don't send a deep space exploration vessel on a multiyear outing on its first trip out of space dock. Janeway herself explains in Caretaker that Voyager's relative small size and its bioneural gel packs allow the ship to manoeuver the Badlands more easily than other vessels.
The Maquis mission really is an ideal shakedown cruise. First you get to spend a few weeks traveling through friendly territory, allowing you to work out the kinks in time for the Badlands. And with Tuvok retrieved, the senior bridge crew would be complete and Voyager could launch from DS9 for a new mission deeper into uncharted space.
Exactly! And the fact the Val Jean was in the Badlands was mostly coincidence, anyway. Tuvok could’ve given away their position anywhere in Maquis territory - much of it just coincidentally being in the Badlands - but it ended up being there, because that was where the Maquis planned to attack Gul Evek. There was no other reason both ships happened to be in the Badlands, at the time.
The simplest explanation is the best: it's bad writing. And Voyager was full of it.
I see you have fully immersed yourself in the Starfleet kool-aid. good gooood hahahahahaha
Starfleet is known for placing Trainees and Junior Officers in Senior Positions, likely because of testing and performance while at Starfleet Academy, Kim was likely an Cadet that had been a good Cadet, he lack some personal Judgement skills, but was a Good Cadet and seen as a Good Senior Officer for a new ship. Paris on the other hand was initially only their to provide insight into the Maquis, he was effectively on a Work-Release from Prison, his boasting about his piloting skills is what likely landed him the Senior officer position assigned to the Helm. It is possible the Voyager had other Junior Officers aboard but it is also likely that Voyager was operating on a Skeleton Crew for the Shakedown cruise.
As another commentor noted, Starfleet thought Voyager was lost with all hands in the Badlands until the conclusion of Message in a Bottle when we find out that aboard the Prometheus that the Doctor Provided a Full Debrief on Voyager and it's activities in the Delta Quadrant. this initiates the Pathfinder Project.
Again Starfleet is known for sending Cadets and Junior Officers into the field on Training voyages, as part of a Shakedown cruise, and as Junior Officers, it is likely that Kim fresh out of the Academy was assigned as a Senior Officer because of his performance in SFA and that a Shakedown cruise is considered a milk run. Had Voyager not been sent to the Delta Quadrant, Janeway would have provided Starfleet with a field Performance Evaluation of Ensign Kim and he would have either been promoted to Lt. Jr. or been reassigned as a Junior Officer on another ship.
If Voyager is a Deep Space Exploration Ship, the permanent crew would have been composed of Officers that understood that they would not be returning to Federation territory for many years, Kim would not have been an ideal candidate for a Long-Term mission given his desire to stay close to home, made apparent when he violates SF rules and Regulations to find shortcuts.
The previous ships had been returned.
No reason to think Captain McMurder would go off on a crusade.
Starfleet had every reason to believe that voyager would be returned.
The reason Pathfinder looked in the delta quadrant was because Starfleet were told that they were there by the Doctor in "Message in a Bottle" in season 4.
Or... they knew from other ships having been returned..
Also the contact they made with the Romulans through the microwormhole. The Romulan end was in the past before Voyager was even built so it's entirely possible that Section 31 knew in advance.
@@nagillim7915 Right!
@@DonaldDucksRevenge Your name terrifies me. Lol!
I think most of us fans were really gratified when Barclay finally found Voyager after like 6 years. Voyager was closer to home than before and hope was reinforced. Luckily they didn't take the route toward the Gamma Quadrant!
Counterpoint: sending _Voyager_ to the Badlands to get Tuvok and some terrorists makes perfect sense if after that, it's going to be stationed at DS9 to explore the other side of the Bajoran wormhole. If they're going there anyway, just have them do a police raid on the way.
If Starfleet had betrayed the Voyager, then they'll have to apologise to the Equinox too and Captain Ransom was bitter about it too.
Interesting you should say that..
@@LoreReloaded ??
@@shingoku999999
Why was equinox not returned to the alpha quadrant like all the other ships had been?
@@damenwhelan3236 The Equinox was destroyed, and her captain was deceased. As for her crew, they managed to save a few of them, and shortly after stripped them of rank for mutiny.
@@neptoniumblue k...
Why didn't the caretaker send them back.
Largest unresolved plot point: Chakotay was considered important enough for Starfleet to send an officer as a deep cover operative and when lost Voyager to recover both, meanwhile, the Cardassians, (using RUclips spell-check) also considered Chakotay important enough to send one of their own, disguised as a Bajoran, to find Chakotay. This seems like a lot effort and resources to find one man AND NEVER GIVE ANY EXPLANATION AS FOR WHAT THAT REASON WAS!
The maki were a pain on the back of the cardassians as well as the federation. Of course both would try to take them down. ,
I presume Chakotay was simply a much naughtier boy during his time with the Maquis than we're ever told about.
@@Sirithil or just one of the most effective
I have been toying with this idea for a while.
Janeway was a pet of Admiral Paris - a very senior starfleet admiral and probably had every confidence in her ability to carry out such a difficult mission and maybe sent his deadbeat son along with her hoping it would straighten him out. Voyager was one of the most state of the art ships in the fleet. A long range tactical vessel with impressive scientific and research facilities and like you said - incredibly fuel efficient and a long range. She had every chance starfleet could give her of being able to return from wherever she was sent. She could also land and carry out serious maintenance overhauls. I think they knew ships were disappearing in the badlands and knew if anyone could work out where they were going and who or whom was taking them it was Voyager. It was probably one of the very few ships in the fleet which would have the ability to carry out such a potentially hazardous mission in a way that even the Galaxy class cruisers probably wouldn't have been able to.
Pathfinder was looking for Voyager in the delta quadrant because the doctor told Starfleet where it was. He was sent to the alpha quadrant and fought Romulans with Andy Dick. Additionally, if it was the intention of purposely sending Voyager to the delta quadrant you would want a young crew like Harry Kim. After decades of returning, young crew will replace the older crew. You would want a somewhat trustworthy (to do what's in their best interest) person like Tom Paris is a completely alien situation to do the things the Starfleet personnel would find repulsive.
Still though, if they wanted to get a ship there I have no doubt there would be more than enough ideologues in Starfleet to easily put together an all volunteer perfectly trained and manned crew. It would be the ultimate exploration. More than enough would go even if they knew they would never live to see earth again.
Sorry, I disagree with everything you said 😆, but I do love the channel.
Did Lore Reloaded forget the other Federation ship which was taken by the Caretaker? It was half the size of Voyageur and it's crew didn't fare well... so they violate every Starfleet law in order to have a very slim hope of making it back to the Federation. I think by the time Voyageur encountered them, there was maybe 20 crew remaining... is this correct? That's the fate Voyageur should have had instead of the script writers magically repairing Voyageur, and somehow unkilling all the extra crew members, between story arcs...
If the Federation _was_ going to explore the Delta Quadrant they wouldn't have chosen a small ship like Voyageur, they would have chosen a larger ship which _could_ allow the people on board to bring along their family... so that their moral would be high as such a mission _would_ be a decade long mission... so children getting older, becoming junior officers... some of _them_ having children by the time the ship returns.
Of course, ideally, they would want an entire fleet of ships for such decade+ long mission. Several scout ships, like the Intrepid-class, to actually do the scouting and away missions, lead from a ship, like a Galaxy-class, outfitted as a mobile command post with 3 or 4 times the crew on board (to switch crews around of the other ships so all crews have a few months of R&R in a "safe" location while making sure the ships they were assigned to can still carry on with new orders), several smaller ships to act as protectors, like the Defiant-class, all supported by a fleet train which consists of a mining ships, a construction ship, at least 2 repair ships, and several other supply ships. All in all, a fleet of at least a dozen of ships, probably closer to 2 dozen ships, just to make sure the mission would be a success.
@@aralornwolf3140 The thing is, there were plenty of situations, where the presence of a fleet of Federation ships would have lead to destruction.
Instead of a fleet of ships, I would have sent either a science star cruiser, or, if the Vesta was active, one of those ships, since it is a multi mission ship, and twice Voyager's size.
Fought with Andy Dick. Well with him on your side, you're sure to win!! 😂😂
@@shauntempley9757 ,
Voyageur was captured and destroyed so many times in its seven TV seasons, that a single ship wouldn't have made it. As soon as _one_ aggressive species decided to take on that lone ship, it's gone. With a small fleet, with trained diplomats, they would be able to _avoid_ most of the altercations... maybe a little bit of trade (of information) for freedom of passage... perhaps a little bit of technology, or showing the species new mining/construction techniques would be enough.
By having multiple ships, when there _is_ an altercation, there is a higher likelihood of those ships surviving... and thus the mission being completed.
@@aralornwolf3140 The thing with diplomats that you suggested, is that those species that did in fact destroy Voyager, would have pretty much returned with fleets themselves.
I am saying there were a number of times that Voyager encountered entire sectors across their direct course, where a fleet would not have got through.
These were everything from a species that had full control of their space, such as the swarm, 8472 and the Borg, to an entire sector of space that was full of natural anomalies that would have destroyed a fleet.
In fact, there was a sector that had a vast drifting graveyard that was far larger and more denser than the Chintoka sector, the site of two battles during the Dominion War, except, this graveyard was the result of an armada of refugee ships that got decimated from the unstable environment.
It turns out, that the instability was caused by attraction of those anomalies to warp energies of vast amounts. In each occasion, the main advantage was the simple fact that Voyager could avoid the worst of those situations because it was alone.
I think that a temporal causal loop story involving Section 31 and the Romulans would have made a good conspiracy story about Voyager and how it ended up on that mission. Remember the episode, "Eye of the Needle" where they find that micro wormhole and a Romulan scientist on the other end, followed by what Mr Barclay said in another episode involving the pathfinder project? "The Romulans have been curious about Voyager for years!" This was probably because the time space wormhole or, "Harry Kim Wormhole" as Mr Paris named it had a temporal displacement of 20 years IIRC, something they only discovered after transporting Romulan scientist Telek R'Mor on to Voyager through it. After discovering this they sent him back with letters from the crew which he said he would give to Starfleet 20 years later, however Tuvok discovered that he died 4 years before Voyager launched which meant he could not have sent the messages on. Torres then speculated that he may have left a will asking someone else to transmit the messages or given the computer chip from Voyager to the Romulan government. Based on what reg Barclay said, "The Romulans have been curious about Voyager for years" it would seem that they did get the letters they left with Telek R'Mor and were aware of what happened to the ship perhaps long before the events in Caretaker. It would make sense from their perspective to let this happen, they've wanted to explore the Delta quadrant for a long time but why risk one of their own ships when they knew two of ours made it? Val Jean and Voyager. It's possible Section 31 also knew about what happened beforehand given their clandestine connections with the Romulan empire, hence the nonsensical mission being launched in the first place. Temporal causal loop complete.
One of the books at the time said that Voyager's mission was going to be deep space exploration of the Gamma Quadrant, so them going to DS9 and detouring to retrieve a crewman before setting out makes some sense.
Voyager was probably sent because they thought the marquee had somehow destroyed the equinox and wanted answers so they sent a more powerful updated ship that could handle the job not knowing that they were captured by the caretaker array
Voyager was more powerful, I doubt it was much newer.
@@DavidKnowles0 It had that new ship smell.
@@DavidKnowles0 - possibly older.
The Nova had that Sovereign vibe while the Intrepid was in that difficult transition period between Galaxy and Sovereign. The Intrepid still has the old Galaxy-style nacelles and escape pods.
Plus the TNG tech manual states that the Nova was initially slated as a much bigger ship to replace the Galaxy. Clearly after the Borg and Dominion were discovered those plans changed. The Nova from Voyager is pretty much an early Defiant design with a secondary deflector in place of pulse phasers.
This doesn't explain why they wouldn't just send someone else, like the Defiant.
@@FirebirdPrince - if they'd sent the Defiant it would've been a much shorter show. Defiant has even less amenities than the Nova and can't even fire phasers without having to swap out the emitters. It would've lasted about a month in the delta quadrant.
Well, one could make the argument why Janeway and an Intrepid-class ship was send is: a) the new class shall get more tested under real-life conditions AND b) with it, the more non-combat focused Captains that flooded the ranks with the post Wolf359 rearmament program, get some actuall combat experence against a not serious thread like the Marquis, before they're send against a reall foe like this mysterious Dominion... and thats why you also keep back you best horses like a Sisko and Defiant.
wolf 359 was an inside job
Janeway had combat experience though, she fought the Cardassians and in one episode recalled a 3 day siege where her squad was cut off and was in a continuous fire fight.
It makes sense. Send an expendable crew on a risky mission, but make sure if they disappear, they are on a ship that is designed to handle long term journeys with no outside aid.
For Star Fleet command it is a win-win. They find out what happened to the previous ships, while having their latest ship, Voyager, explore the unknown areas that Star Fleet could not otherwise reach.
This is likely why when Voyager returned, Janeway was promoted to Admiral. To keep an eye on her and pay her off. It is likely the rest of the crew of Voyager was paid off as well in someway for their silence.
To be fair, on their journey, Voyager created around as many messes as their solved.
It is hard to believe they didn't know. as the region would have been in constant sensor surveillance. they would have seen other ships taken by the energy wave. Plus another ship was lost in the same way long before. They would have been able to track the direction of the wave. They new where to start looking. I am sure the Midus array was already under development before voyagers departure. The crew chosen wasn't the best of the best, otherwise expendable. As for Barkly. He was changed by alien technology. He was fundamentally changed and would have been able to use knowledge on at least on a subconscious level.
Being how the show ultimately ended up, I would say bad writing is the most likely culprit.
i see it that way : Intrepid was brand new type of ship - in essence it was in it's shakedown period - so they gave janeway an easy mission - grab some terrorists (in a far inferior vessel in comaprison to Janeway's) thus stopping some Maqui terroris activities - and in the same time grab some of their personel for interrogation (to get more info as well) all the while giving the ship itself a rather mild trashing to see if it works properly - in that setup Janeways mission makes a lot of sense - on top of that keep in mind Tom's father was an admiral - so he might have quietly pushed the mission forward as well in order to get his kid out of prison and send him on the "clean slate" if he pulled throught the mission properly - sure it's a therory but if an admiral wanted to get his kid out of prison "properly" then that would be a good way to do it as it would check all the usuall federation check boxes (grab terrorists - check, check out new ship - check - good PR - check - and getting your no good son out of prison - check.
So giving the ship an easy mission first before sending it of on a REALLY long journey to check it ouf first under those conditionts makes a lot of sense.
didn't the caretaker say it had been scanning the entire galaxy and taking ships? if it had been doing this for a while and returning ship to their point of origin, then it is possible starfleet knew about the caretaker and had sensor reading of the displacement wave and detected the very same wave when the Val Jean disappeared.
and well if Voyager didn't make it back it was one small ship, a green captain and limited crew
When do they get a veteran crew?
Lemme guess, not until Tuesday.
I can't wait for Changeling Janeway to make an appearance in Picard next week. That will open up a whole new world of Lore Reloaded conspiracy theories!
Has anyone even thought to ask, is beverly ACTUALLY beverly?
@@Phoenixesper1 I asked that every episode since we saw her defending that ship.
I bet Starfleet knew something would happen to Voyager because they read the script for the TV show.
Man, you come out with some crazy out of the box theories.
This is a sound theory of why Voyager was picked for the assignment. However, Janeway turned out to be more resourceful in the end, also got a lot of help from crew and Seven to get back to Earth. And they brought back a lot of technology including Borg enhanced ship armor plating.
Umm wasn't the Pathfinder project after the Doctor used the comm sats to deliver the crews message?
This is more than it was first thought out. This video gives a better explanation as to why the whole series started with in the first place. Starfleet knew about it, but weren't in charge of it. I can see Sector 31 doing that. And they had someone inside as intelligence. (I'll get back to this.) And at some point his equipment got damaged so he couldn't always send messages. Who? I have only two guesses. Nicholas Locarno/Tom Paris or Tuvok. Paris? For his crimes in Starfleet being dropped. or Tuvok who wouldn't have a problem keeping it a secret. And I will take it a step further. Not only tech but also information. What if they found another race that Starfleet could partner with to make them stronger than the Romulans? At the time Starfleet and Romulus were equals (Almost) and enemies as well. And what if they could figure out how to use the method the ship was transported by examinig Voyager if and when it got back to Earth. That itself would be considered worth the whole ordeal. This is just off the top of my head.
Several people died in the move. Could be that the first officer or others where of section 31 but all died in the event.
@@gerble36 True, this could happen too.
Let us not forget (ALL) of Seven's Theories on this matter before Janeway reeled her back, which is worth reviewing & might give us more insight to this matter.
if they wanted Tuvok obliterated along w/ Chakotay’s cell, yeah they’d send the Defiant
I’ve often gotten stuck on why they sent voyager after Tuvok when the defiant or another closer ship to get him or find out what happened or even use intelligence assets within the maquis or even Cardassia to find out what happened to him. Seemed like over kill and too much time invested for such a mission
Defiant was on either a first contact mission to the Dominion, or an exploration mission in the Gamma Quadrant at the time, if memory serves.
It was a mission that required everyone except Quark. Even Odo was off on that mission.
What if Voyager was sacrificed to destroy the caretaker array so that no other Federation ship gets scooped up? After all they did have just the right amount of tricobalt devices to X the array...in this scenario, even if the caretaker didn't die, Janeway would still find some other way to justify to her crew why they must destroy the array... Janeway was in on it, but after living and bonding with her new crew she eventually goes back in time to undue some of the damage Star fleet did to them... The end
Project Pathfinder happens after Message in a Bottle. So I think you're missing something here.
I always thought the only reason Janeway got a command in the first place is because of the looming Dominion war. Starfleet was expanding it's fleet and had to lower it's standards. Wouldn't surprise me if the entire Voyager crew were just the bottom of Starfleet's minimal acceptable standards and all shoved into one ship to absorb fire meant for a defiant class. Which is why it was picked to get whisked away to the Delta Quadrant. Voyage only really made it back because Janeway was a complete psychopath, which made her perfect Starfleet Admiral material.
Intrepid class vessels spent the whole war playing diplomatic and scouting roles because they were the fastest in the fleet and had the absolute best sensors before sovereign came out. Admiral Ross used one as his command ship. Also star fleet was terrified that one of the ships would fall into dominion hands so they kept them safe. The technology onboard was cutting edge so the crew were highly qualified, except Janeway obviously who got the command despite being a science officer and never holding command before because daddy was an Admiral. All these ships went to Admirals expect the one that went to an Admirals unqualified daughter. wink wink.
The Vulcan Science Directorate has determined:
You should just enjoy the show.
It was right in front of us this entire time and I just never questioned it. It all makes way too much sense for the whole thing to not stink
It would actually be rather ironic if by sheer coincidence every single section 31 operative died when voyager was pulled into the delta quadrant.
We know the first officer, Doctor and chief engineer died as well as a hand full of others, leaving only Janeway and Tuvok as the original senior staff, if you were doing a covert ops path finding mission and were a cell based ntelligebce network, you simply wouldn’t have the resources to send a dedicated S31 ship fully crewed with S31 operatives, you’d send a ship of the line with a handful of operatives embedded and at key positions to easily carry out the S31 missions.
You’d want the FM and Doctor positions at the very least as that makes things easy in a lot of ways and maybe 3-5 rank and file operatives for away missions.
Pathfinder knew to look in the delta quadrant because of the doctor being sent to USF Prometheus the pan fry their project had been started until after the doctor I've been sent there
All these posts and no one's brought up the Tri-Cobalt weapons? A WMD from 70 years earlier, a different Starfleet, a weapon that was only eclipsed by the Quantum Torpedo. A weapon that was _not_ part of a standard load out but by happenstance was pulled out of mothballs, refurbished and loaded up on a state of the art explorer with a green captain and crew.
Why? 🤔
Exactly !! Seven was right about the whole conspiracy but once she went off on a tangent in the second half of the episode all those facts were conveniently ignored
I can't recall, was the Pathfinder Project initiated once Voyager made contact with the Alpha Quadrant via the Hirogen network? Then they were able to pass along further information to Starfleet HQ via the Prometheus this way giving the Pathfinder Project even more of a localization of where Voyager is? I may be wrong, I haven't seen the series in over 20 years.
Early in season 1,weren't they able to find a very small wormhole that led back to Romulan Space, in the past ?. i recall they they beamed him through the wormhole and he took messages back with him. It was reported that he had died a while ago ,but what about those messages?
If 31 got a hold of those messages ,they would have a list of who is supposed to be on Voyager and saw the potential .
Correct, Chris. ( 20 years romulan) .
Section 31 may have infiltrated the Tal Shiar before 2371, so they would have know about a Federation ship from the future called Voyager being trapped in the Delta Quadrant.
In this case it would be more DoTI than S31 that would be interested.
@@VestedUTuber How would the DoTI know unless someone working for both S31 and DoTI passed on the information to their DoTI colleagues? I imagine the DoTI would have a number of S31 operatives in it's ranks as a matter of course. Temporal matters would be of great concern to S31.
@@blitzerblazinoah6838
Other way around. S31 may be the "behind the scenes" covert ops and intelligence agency of the Federation, but they're still tied to their timeline. DoTI has jurisdiction over and beyond them for the purposes of maintaining the stability of the timeline, and likely has agents planted within S31. Plus they have means of monitoring the timeline itself, so they could easily have identified the initial crossover point afterwards and sent an agent over to that crossover point. Heck, the Romulan receiving the message could have been a DoTI agent in disguise. Or not even in disguise, but just from a point in time after the destruction of Romulus.
The Equinox is one of my favorite ships in Star Trek.
Love this idea, the original commander, doctor or someone that died during voyager being taken could have been section 31 operative.
USAF veteran flight paramedic Aerospace medicine pre post Berlin wall collapse : The things I can an can't tell you would amaze you .
Since they decided they needed Tom Paris's intel to complete this particular mission and Tom Paris was in a prison camp in New Zealand, It would make no sense to send the defiant or any of the closer ships all they way back to earth and then back out again. It makes total sense that a ship already at earth would do the transporting. Other than that minor point, you make an excellent argument.
1: Voyager was equipped with new tech that made navigating the badlands easier.
2: While the runabouts might be able to handle the Val Jean in combat Voyager was better equipped for a fight. Plus neither the Defiant nor the runabouts were equipped with the bio neural tech that made it safer and easier for Voyager to navigate the Badlands.
3: Voyager was an exploration ship, and DS9 made a perfect staging area for exploration missions into the Gamma Quadrant. They pick up Tuvok, seize or destroy the Val Jean then resupply, make any needed repairs, and launch on an exploration mission.
4: Paris was only on board because his knowledge of Maquis hiding spots was useful to the hunt for the Val Jean. He wasn't a member of the crew until the original helmsman was killed during the transition to the Delta Quadrant.
5: As many other people have mentioned why are you ignoring the fact that Project Pathfinder knew where Voyager was because the Doctor briefly returned to the Alpha Qy=uadrant and told them where Voyager was?
What you're saying ties in well with the events of The Voyager Conspiracy. It seems that Seven was indeed correct in her assessment that Voyager had been brought to the Delta quadrant intentionally by Starfleet, but wirhout the knowledge of the Equinox being lost her conclusion as to why this happened (to bring Seven home) and thinking Janeway was complicit in it was flawed.
Great take, looking forward to your next take
Not to mention that as well as being closer to the bad lands, the DS9 crew are more familiar with the bad lands.
If I remember correctly, Janeway took the mission because of her connection to Tuvak. She volunteered and SF agreed given Voyager's good weaponry. That made them a perfect candidate to go.
the problem i have with this premise is the lack fire power. Voyager was decently armed but no where armed for a journey that long.
Interesting theory or... you know... just bad writing :P
This is Star Trek, so I'm inclined to the latter.
I most respectfully disagreee with this conspiracy theory.
Frist: Starfleet sent unsuitable ships on unfitting missions for its class before. Remember it sent a Galaxy class ship on transport missions.
Second: Captain Janeway was the Captain of choice. She is a friend and the contact of Tuvok on his mission and he is her tactical officer. Starfleet has a benefit by using Janeway to find the marquis. As a former science officer she seems predestined to traverse the Badlands and find the Marquis ship.
Third: Starfleet knew the type of Marquis vessel. Though Runabouts could have been used, it poses the question what to do when the Raider was captured. Brig the crew and tow the Raider out of the Badlands by a Runabout seems unfitting. Adding the fact that Runabouts lack in its shielding capabilities. Voyager's more capable shielding, its manoeuvrability, vast facilities and technological enhancements made her more suitable for this mission than a Runabout.
Fourth: Catching the Marquis ship has been Voyager's first mission. The Enterprise-D's first mission was to check the facility Farpoint. These missions can be seen as "post-launching test missions" to get the fleas out of the machine. The point is first missions are not always glorious and fitting to the class.
But I appreciate your work!
That opening made me chuckle.
I came up with almost that exact theory decades ago when Voyager encountered the other Starfleet ship lost in the Delta... for a few similar reasons. I also factored in that they sent a LONG-RANGE ship to such a place with literally expendable crew and operatives... so, minimal cost of lost... can trek home if survive (with super-valuable intel). They also could believe that the tech superiority of that era's Federation could help, their scanners were great enough for them to dodge detected Borg and speed that were great enough to just outrun them... and, if assimilated, they could recover some Borg drones in Federation space if used as pawns like Picard.
Decades ago, we had a lot of very interesting conversations about this... which kind of fell apart to just watching the show when they nerfed-down the Borg more so than the only movie that they were in.
Oh look it's Loremaster.. and he's not dead!
Think you're nailing it with this theory. Great job!
For having no command experience, Kathryn Janeway was an excellent Captain
6:01 Pathfinder started after the Doctor communicated with Starfleet Command and apprised them of their situation
I could see Voyager being sent on this mission because it would have the science systems needed to determine what happened to vessels that were going missing. Its possible they also wanted to see how well an Intrepid Class could navigate the Badlands in comparison to other ships that had been sent out that way. Combined with the fact that Janeway knew Tuvok quite well, and those would make sense as Starfleet's reasons for doing this. However, the reasons you described would also make sense for Section 31, if they did have a hand in this decision.
That’s why star fleet is experimenting with different drive systems to be able to go further in less time thanks to voyager they left bread crumbs behind the deeper in the delta quadrant they went and charted most the delta quadrant already so if star fleet decides to go to the delta quadrant on purpose they will know what areas to avoid Star fleet really didn’t want to risk sending another ship after them they would have probably gotten completely lost
With Star Trek Discovery playing with the idea of changelings being around much sooner and the fact that Odo is an accepted figure at the beginning of DS9, also lends to the possibility that not Star Fleet, but the Dominion may have sent an invader, before Voyager took off. Here is a one of a kind ship, the Equinox also being one, a rouge changeling in a high position could be cleverly getting rid of new tech, arguing the need to use it or demonstrate its power on a “uneventful trip”. Keep in mind, we really don’t know how far of reach the Dominion had.
Another possibility didn't consider is that if it was Section 31 who did it, it could be related to the Borg. They roughly know where the Borg is, and if they already know that The Caretaker would take them to the Delta Quadrant as a one-way trip, they can learn awful lot about their opponent, and use a ship that could survive the trip and the Borg to gain important intelligence to counter them.
Though of course as we all know it worked a little _too_ well, and they ended up _taking out_ most of the Borg.
I suppose next you'll say that 31 was also responsible for Praxis exploding. (I'll take 10% of the ad revenue you get from THAT video.)
I'll give you credit when i do it ;P I feel like I already did that video though
This actually might be one of the reasons why they promoted Janeway when they returned instead of kicking her out of Starfleet for violating the Prime Directive.
No captain got kicked out for violating the prime directive
If I were captain breaking prime directive would be top priority 😄
That would be some fun series ;) How they made Voyager take the voyage ;)
Nice one
Thanks
This is great. I've never even thought of this before
I think actually a lot of it was a good idea sending Voyager to the Badlands
1. Janeway was a good pick in my opinion for Captain because she was a scientist first and during a time when Starfleet was building more heavily armed ships like The Prometheus, Ambassador Class, and Defiant it Voyager was a ship designed for more scientific and explorative purposes
2. Tom Paris was perfect for helmsman because you have a starship capable of operating inside the atmosphere of a planet and going into a very tricky region of space so it would help to have a good pilot. Also he’s a convict and his father is an admiral the idea is he gets sent on this easy mission of going after a Maquis ship where they have a man on the inside.
3. The Maquis did have sympathizers in the federation. It does make sense to pull the crew from a bit further away hoping to get people that weren’t working with the Maquis.
It is quite plausible that starfleet would do this. It is an easy way to find out what is on the other side of the galaxy.
Sending ships from far away means less grief from yet another Cal Hudson, or Tom Paris, or Ro Laren. Assign someone to that general area, say, one Michael Eddington, and let him get close, and there's a fair chance he'll go rogue. Reduce the risk of that by rotating your personnel and assets frequently.
This is a perfect place for Hanlon's Razor.
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
Big brain stuff here. I think you nailed it with a .45
By sending your tech into an unknown zone you can’t reach you basically increase the oddds of your enemy knowing your tech and making counters rather you will gain
A fun idea but I'm not sold on this one. The Intrepid class is a long-range explorer designed to be able to operate on the fringes of Starfleet territory efficiently and effectively. This kind of design is not new (Constellation class for example), but in the modern-era, the ship is designed to be able to handle itself in most situations.
And you don't put your best tactical mind in charge of a ship that is not going to be a front-line combat vessel, you put them on Akira's, Defiant's and Sovereign's. Just like the USS Stargazer, you put an explorer on your long-range explorer.
I've always assumed Janeway got the USS Voyager because she was the 'favourite' of several admirals; she served with Admiral Paris and appears to be Admiral Patterson's protégé, so I've always taken it that strings were pulled on her behalf to get a fancy new Intrepid class.
As for the Badlands mission; that's also easily explained. For one, an officer of Voyager is there, so it's natural for any captain to want to recover their officer personally and is not outside of Janewya's character to insist on that, and again she may have benefited from friends in high-places in getting that.
Plus, the mission on paper is a milk-run: take one of the newest, fastest, most advanced ships in the entire of Starfleet that is built to handle rough treatment into an unstable region to capture a tiny, ancient, badly damaged ship being maintained on a shoe-string, probably with detailed intelligence on where it goes. It's perfect for a brand new rookie crew to get an easy first win under their belt.
Plus, while Starfleet may have had an idea what causes the disappearances, it's likely they have absolutely no idea if the ships survive. And let's not forget, the Nova class were hardly old ships, and yet USS Equinox vanishes in just the same way. Nova's were just as modern as the Intrepid's and expected to handle themselves in situations far beyond what a mere science-vessel should be able to, I would expect a Nova to be able to wreck a Miranda for example, so (from what we know admittedly) Starfleet has not idea if Voyager would fare any better than any other ship that has disappeared in the Badlands. You don't risk one of your newest, most advanced assets on a "probably".
No, to me Janeway's appointment to Voyager makes sense in that she suits the vessel's primary peace-time missions and her being well-liked by several admirals is likely how a rookie captain got an Intrepid class. It's unfair on other officers, but not malicious in my view. And she proves she's not incompetent or undeserving of that rapid advancement given she brings said asset home intact.
Fun thought experiment though, definitely enjoyed the video. I obviously don't wear a big enough Star-Trek conspiracy hat.
One point you are leaving out is that Starfleet wanted Tom Paris along to lead whatever ship went into the Badlands to the Maquis base. Paris was in prison on Earth, so they needed a ship from Earth to take Paris to the Badlands. Since Voyager was there and needed some time to adjust to her new captain and had some new, experimental tech, as well as Tuvok being the chief of security for Voyager, this made it the best ship to use.
If they wanted to send someone to the Delta Quadrant, why didn't they just use the wormhole they discovered in TNG?
Bad writing
Nuff said
Brings the Voyager conspiracy episode into focus.
Glad y'all finally got here
Its an interesting theory but what is much more likely is
A: Starfleet even before Wolf 359 and Dom war were already stretched WAY too thin. Hence why androids and holograms are focused technologies.
B: Command could have sent a closer crew but they were already on assignment and a new ship would not yet have one.
C: The missions objective being so narrow in scope would make it perfect to serve as a "shake down" mission for the newly minted ship before everything got delivered on Tuesday.
I used to work in EMS serving as a dispatcher. Circumstances often force you to not go with "the closest" option. I could only imagine how much worse it would be for a galactic organization compared to a tiny company with a 50 mile service area range. So your premise "why wouldnt they send someone closer" is not as sound as it might seem.
There is always a difference between theory and practical application.
One thing: Except for maybe Sisko, and the way other SF Officers act around the topic, it is not unlikely that Starfleet Comman did not see the Maquis as a serious threat. I am very certain that this mission Voyager was sent on was seen by Starfleet Command as trivial at best. Nothing too much to worry about.
And it's not unlikely that this mission was a test for Janeway as with the Maquis there'd be multiple possible and likely ways to handle the mission. She'd have to pursuit and fight without needless violence, she'd have to track them down in hostile terrain and she'd very likely have to use her diplomatic skills along the road just as well.
All in all, if Starfleet considers this a trivial mission, this would have made a great entrance mission for a new captain to see if they can actually handle it.
Also, Starfleet was very trusting in the Maquis to not lethally attack Federation Vessels. And rightfully so, the Maquis went very great lengths to actually avoid fighting the Federation.
Interesting points. Possible. But not plausible. A few gaping holes in this theory. 1. Voyager didn't have its second warp drive, Aero Shuttle or other systems installed. 2. Additional provisions would have been held (fuel, gel packs, medical supplies, etc) 3. A proper communication system would have been installed. 4. Voyager would have been kitted out with more sensors, shields and weapons than a dozen Defiants. 5. You would send more experienced and specialized personnel. Janeway was too green. So was Kim. Additionally, "Message in a Bottle" dispels the point of how Starfleet knew they were in the Delta Quadrant.
the caretaker didnt seem opposed to sending ships back after examining them. Just that with voyager there was "no time".
So there is a chance that the federation knew of such a vessel
Man that earlier Janeway bun
First I'd like to say that we don't know how experienced the voyager crew was when they were being set out. We know about main Characters like Kim, Janeway, and Paris but remember around half the crew of voyager died when scooped by the caretaker including the entire medical staff save one hologram and the voyager's second in comand. In other words it's very possible that there were members of the crew present with the experience required to handle the Maqi and the badlands that we never got to know over the course of the show because they died in the first episode. We could have had a counceler trained in hostage negotions, a chief engineer who's an expert in maqi weaponery, a second in command with a history surving the badlands and capaple of assisting Janeway and assessing her abilities to be in long term command of Voyager based on how she handels an unexpected and personal situation that can easily happen on a long voyage.
Second Janeway's personal history with tuvok could prove a valuable asset. For example it is very likely that they lost contact with tuvok because he was found out, the Maqi could then let's say capture tuvok and when the see Voyager force hime to send out a message to make them leave or fall into a trap. Tuvok seeing Voyager and knowing Janeway's in command could hide personal details in the message that don't add up who Janeway would immediately pick up on, depending how well they know eachother he can even use their personal history to send out some coded messace or hint towards the Maqi's plan. Or durring hostage negotiacians she could bring up personal details about tuvok and speak to his character to draw respect and sympothy from the Maqi. After all the Maqi are still people after all who served with Starfleet and Starfleet is not their direct enemy, it's not unreasonable to say they wouldn't be willing to negotiate.
As for why not the defiant we don't really know what sisko and the others were doing at this time, they could have been on any number of important behind enemy lines missions we do or don't see and may have been deemed too valuable to risk sending to the badlands for this mission. Given the overclocking of the defiant's systems it could have been weak to power surges or "space lightning" or something in the badlands that Voyager was better equiped for. Roundabouts may not have been a good idea either given the dangers of the badlands.
@Lore,
According to the DTI novels, Starfleet did know about Voyager being stuck in the Delta Quadrant and wanted them to follow through, because without this event, according to 31st Century Starfleet, there was no possible future timeline where the Federation or any civilization other tan the Borg Collective would exist by 26th century. Essentially, this was their Dr. Strange type damage analysis, send Voyager into the Delta Quadrant, where they will do what they would and eventually get tech and/or kill the Borg in the final outcome. I like that explanation.
Re; Janeway as captain. You've probably never been in the military..which is fine but if you had you'd have instantly recognized that Janeway has a
"Rabi". This a a slang term for someone with pull that's taken an interest in you and your career and proves the whole
( it's not what you know but WHO you know). Then there's the good ol habit of advancement for officers-people who've taken certain classes over FAR more qualified people who hold their superior upon their shoulders and often run along the razors edge of manipulating, "advising ",ignoring, actually being in control but not command with the newbie officer's ego and need to succeed. Done well everyone's better off for it. Yeah or I'm completely wrong and don't know what I'm talking about. It's probably one of those. Thank you for the upload. Great as per usual.
Semper Fidelis
You're missing one big thing and that is what was part of Voyager's comment? Onboard Voyager, they had a complement of Tri-cobalt warheads that they had used to destroy the array-- but that is not a normal complement to have. Tri-cobalt warheads are basically a much bigger version of a nuclear warhead and as such they are weapons of mass destruction that Voyager was carrying in it's arsenal. That would suggest that Voyager's mission wasn't just about picking up their operative but actually about forcing the surrender of the Maquis-- there would be no other reason why you would arm a ship like that. I think Voyager's mission was actually darker than we may think and for Starfleet-- it would make sense for them to put a new captain in charge of such a mission who wouldn't likely question the orders and also put The Tri-cobalt weapons on ship that could handle them but also be able to navigate the badlands as well. I would say that Voyager's mission was about ending the Maquis but instead they got snatched up into the Delta instead.
Section 31 could have found out from operatives in the Cardassian Union or Obsidian Order, we do know that a Galor Class vessel was pulled to the array and sent back that vessel would have gathered info on the area of space around the array. Project Pathfinder wasn't green lit until after the events of Message in a Bottle where the Doctor told starfleet where Voyager was in the Delta Quadrant.
Part of the problem here is that there are literally a hundred ways to lose a ship within the Alpha quadrant. I cite the three series worth of Trek up to that point. The “ship gone missing” story is as old as the Galileo Seven. It’s part of the inspiration for Voyager itself. So Starfleet know of missing ships, but they have no way to know if they’ve crash-landed on a planet, been destroyed by a space anomaly or taken captive. The episode about the slipstream drive that went wrong discusses in the future how Starfleet couldn’t find the ship, even though it crashed into a frozen planet(and Harry and Chakotay found a vessel that Starfleet couldn’t).
At the time Voyager was shipped to the Badlands, the Dominion had already been infiltrating various Alpha/Beta Quadrant worlds with changelings. There were changelings on Earth. Who's to say that the Dominion didn't help orchestrate Equinox and Voyager (with plans to do the same to others) to reduce Federation resources in the inevitable war.
This video is what happens when Lore Unloaded is played late-night on the History Channel. All that was missing was that one guy with the wild hair saying "Aliens". 😅😅😅
Or you know. The defiant, runabouts, and other heavy hitters were busy patrolling to keep the dominion/cardassians at bay, while also more ships patrol the neutral zone in case the romulans decide now is their time.
Not to mention while the voyager was new, under crewed, and still experimental they needed to bring ships into service as fast as possible doing any sort of combat test they can.
I always thought the USS Hera & Geordi La Forge’s mother was taken by the Caretaker
I notice how that era of trek, science ships were strategic and less tough and explorer ships were tactical and very tough. Very clever way of hiding military functions behind " science and exploration". The defiant wasn't labeled an explorer, but it did follow the pattern of a tough ship that had a lot of tactical capabilities. And if you don't think a launchable exploding deflector head is tactical, then I'm sorry I can't help you with words.
The Q say "ha ha ha finally a human!! Who!!! 😅😅😅❤who makes sense!!!"😎
Reminds me of the episode where seven gets paranoid and thinks starfleet was in on it
Remember the Romulan that Voyager talked to in the 1st season, who turned out to be from 22 years in the past? He said he would make a full report on it, and there's no doubt he did. There's also no doubt that Section 31 has people in the Tal'Shiar.
I get that this turns into a wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey thing, but it wouldn't be the weirdest time paradox for Voyager.
Your analysis overlooks the fact of mission duration during your ship selection process I think . This was an open ended mission when Janeway was sent after Tuvok . The Defiant /Runabouts are not intended as long range ship regardless of what else they are , not for months .
As said, starfleet found out Voyager was in the delta quadrant through the doctor's little adventure. They may also have known through the Romulans and decided to not interfere with time (if the Romulans even passed the messages and starfleet believed them...).
Voyager being sent after the maquis ship definitely makes sense. It's a brand new ship, a brand new crew, and a brand new captain. A simple search and detain mission would have been a perfect shake down for starfleet to see if the ship, crew, and captain performed as they should. Voyager was top of the line and outclassed the maquis ship they were after in every possible way by lightyears. You don't throw a newly promoted captain in the deep with a brand new ship and inexperienced crew (that's a good way to lose ship and crew). You sent them out on some easy missions first, evaluate performance, and if then found it's working out, you give them the bigger jobs. You also don't promote someone form first officer of a destroyer to captain of an aircraft carrier either. You want to know how someone handles a first command. Voyager was a small ship with a rookie crew and so got a job that Sisko and his crew could have done with their eyes closed. At least, that would have been the case if it wasn't for the caretaker.
Voyager then would likely be used for exploration in the gamma quadrant. Being sent ever deeper into the gamma quadrant as they gain more experience with such missions. Besides, the Intrepid class were versatile ships able to perform multiple missions. It was also a very though design (as opposed the Galaxy class, which was a glass cannon). It's likely a place like the badlands would be more suited for an Intrepid or Defiant class ship rather then an old Excelsior or even a Nebula or Galaxy. Voyager was made to take a beating and the badlands provide plenty of beatings.
And starfleet would sent a though ship as ships have a habit of disappearing in the badlands more often then in other places. Between hostile forces and negative space wedgies, starfleet is used to ships going off the 24th century radar. So while the badlands was a notorious place, occasionally losing a ship wouldn't have raised any alarms with the admiralty that something more may be going on then meets the eye. As far as starfleet could tell, it was just a dangerous area of space and that is nothing new to them.
I believe there is one thing we can all agree on is that Star Trek writers aren't always consistent.
Don't get me wrong I love ST, but there are many plot holes for which the hardcore fans like myself, are all to happy to overlook because ST stories are so entertaining.
It would be amazing that this theory could be possible, but alas, I don't believe that the narrative would be so deep to have such a possability within the lore.
Admiral Hanson must've been a section 31 asset. The episode the voyager conspiracy definitely lends credence to the possibility that section 31 sent two ships to the delta quadrant, voyager and equinox, possibly in concert with the obsidian order, because a cardassian warship was sent as well, and Seska was part of it as well. The cardassians goal was to gain a foothold in the delta quadrant. Section 31 was to scout the area with Voyager
But in 'Death Wish' when Q showed up after the crew released Quinn from his prison, he assumed that Quinn had been responsible, and said that the Federation were not due in that section of the galaxy for at least a century. So the Caretaker it seems also altered history? Or at least history as the Continuum knew it. One to ponder?
You know your right about the Badlands, why send voyager when the defiant who is experienced in the area and also can cloak was on the edges of the place being stationed at DS9?
Sometimes things are as simple as they seem. Voyager has advanced sensors allowing it to cope with the Badlands sensor interference, and a relatively well-armed ship is needed in case the Cardies decide to interfere. It's a solid first mission for an unproven class, challenging but near to DS9 if reinforcement or resupply needed.
As for the evidence that you provide, far from the Pathfinder project being underway before Voyager establishes contact quite the opposite. The Voyager has been declared missing in action, and it's only when The Doctor is transmitted to the Prometheus by means of the vast Hirogen communications network that Starfleet know to look in the DQ for Voyager.
It would make more sense as an "inside job" if Voyager's true mission had been to investigate the Badlands, and deploy probes and sensor arrays. A simple-sounding mission with little room for wild adventures would put them right where Section 31 would want them, without any pretense of urgency or anything else.
Then, when they disappear "by accident," it's not exactly accidental. The ship arrives in the Delta Quadrant equipped to explore. The story could still have them run across stranded Maquis and be forced to cooperate when they discover "the enemy of my enemy is my friend," and that they won't escape the situation without sticking together.
Frankly, I hated the fact that Voyager didn't get to keep those Ju'Day class Maquis ships and assemble a small flotilla instead of a single ship to head back to the Alpha Quadrant. I would have loved to see them keep the Equinox as well, but end up being forced to turn over the alternative propulsion that was developed.
They could fly those ships along with Voyager, and maybe end up scrapping them and recycling their materials and components as they each get more worn out, adding the parts that work onto Voyager to give them a moderate advantage (a little armor plating here, extra phaser strips there, extra support struts to reinforce something, etc.). It would've made the show much more visually interesting, and given them some ways to punch a little above their weight class in an emergency, instead of "inverting the technobabble matrix to overload the gelato machine for quantum targeting accuracy."
Starfleet sending ships on missions other than they’re designed for, gee that never happens. It’s not as if the Defiant, one of if not the most powerful ship in the Federation, was often sent on exploration and scientific missions, and Oberth class ships definitely didn’t fight at
Wolf 359. Honestly this all seems far fetched. If Starfleet sent Voyager out intentionally to get abducted, that was basically a death sentence, there was absolutely no guarantee they would survive to make it back to the Federation.