How Does the Manus Catalyst Actually Work? Dark Souls Mechanics Explained
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- Опубликовано: 10 мар 2024
- In this video, I explore exactly just how the Manus Catalyst affects abyssal spells. Unfortunately, like many Dark Souls damage mechanics, it is far from straightforward.
Игры
Whoops looks like I had a typo in one of the tables - with 50 int / 14 strength, the total damage for dark orb is 360, not 283! The split is shown correctly on that 2nd table though (33 physical / 327).
Forgot to mention, but spell-boosting items (Bellowing Dragoncrest, Crown of Dusk, Gwyndolin's Helmet) affect both the physical and magical portions of the spell. I didn't really get into it in this video, but due to the way these buffs works (they multiply your 'attack', not your 'damage'), the increase you see from these items is really felt with these spells.
At 30 strength and 50 intelligence, for example, Dark Orb does roughly 30% more damage with the Manus Catalyst and 28% more with the Tin Crystallization Catalyst. May be why Dark Bead feels like a nuke.
Would’ve liked to see a damage comparison between the manus catalyst and it’s main counterpart the tin crystallization catalyst, but otherwise great video, don’t think anyone’s ever compiled this info before and it’s always been something I’ve wanted to know
Can't believe your channel isn't blowing up more, this is exactly the type of content the DS1 community needs :)
Haha well it’s like +1200 subscribers over the past week which to me is blowing up!
at first i was all “neeeeeerddddd” but the. i realized this is incredibly useful and nobody (that i’ve seen) is doing this level of work. great job dude! keep it up! earned a sub.
This has been known for yesrs tho, its just nobody posted it on youtube
Wonderful video and information.
I'm also amazed at how fast you changed the graphics. The darker background and colored text help a lot.
Glad you liked it!
Illusory wall has been quiet ever since this guy showed up
lol naw I love his vids. His one on miracle resonance is really interesting
@trevthedev6134 That video was really fun, I had no idea what miracle resonance even was before that
Hey dood, great job on the table stuff. It was very clear and visually pleasing. I wouldn’t change it much unless you got a strong artistic scratch to itch with this stuff and are looking to make it more “you”
So much effort put on those videos, so much talent, well done!
great video! lots of interesting stuff i didnt know about at all. i love learning more about my favourite game, keep up the research and i look forward to ur big video
Been loving all these number vids! Keep it up! :D
Thanks! Will get back to some challenge runs soon, but I do love this stuff as well! Gotta bring in new viewers with more popular topics lol
Always been a fan of the people that delve deep into the numbers in these games, even if it is pretty niche now for a game as old as Dark Souls.
The Tin Banishment Catalyst uses Dex scaling to increase the physical damage of Dark Sorceries in a similar way.
EDIT: the calculator from soulsplanner suggests that Tin B, Manus, and the Demon's Catalyst yield significantly higher physical damage with Dark Sorceries than anything else, seemingly putting them in a tier with all other catalysts in a tier below. Manus has better Int scaling, so it will yield more magic damage with the same spells.
Of course, soulsplanner might be incorrect but those three seem to be especially standout, especially at high Dex levels.
Yeah I think everything that has a ‘strength’ or ‘dex’ scaling technically modifies the physical damage output, obviously less than the Manus one however.
@@trevthedev6134 soulsplanner has a calculator for this (not sure if it's accurate, I guess) but Tin Banishment and Manus are significantly stronger with Dark Sorceries than anything else (according to the calculator).
The results there suggest Tin B and Manus are in a league together, while everything else is in the league below. Happy to be demonstrated otherwise of course!
@@trevthedev6134 soulsplanner has a calculator for this (not sure how accurate it is).
The results there suggest Tin B and Manus both yield significantly higher physical damage with the Abyssals, putting then in a tier, and everything else in a tier below.
Thanks for mentioning the Demon's Catalyst. Everyone tends to ignore it but for dark sorceries it's one of the best choices and the melee poke, while short range, is really strong (and the only source of int-scaling fire damage in the game)
I heard that the tin banishment catalyst can also be good for dark spells because of it's dex scaling for the physical damage, so now I'm wondering if leveling dex actually makes it stronger. Might not be worth an entire video though, could put it in one that goes further on dark damage properties like its increased stamina damage, though that probably only changed per spell and isn't affected by stats
I think anything that has a strength or dex scaling for a catalyst does increase the damage of dark / abyss spells, but not by as much as the Manus one thanks to its higher scaling value. Idk if I want to do the research at the moment haha.
Great research
Obligatory comment for our all seeing algorithm good stuff. I didnt really have a huge problem with your previous tables, but I get how some people would've. Good stuff :3
Been considering going back and doing a magic run of ds1, never even touched magic in that one for whatever reason
Haha just know that if you do, I think it's probably the best build to use in Dark Souls. Demon Souls is really the only game where it's even stronger (as evidenced by that fact you can one-shot all but 2 bosses in the highest game cycle!)
i fucking love your videos we are the exact same type of nerd and in my head its like you made your videos specifically for me
I hate to be that guy, Mr. Dev, but I think it’s time to add a new playlist to catalog your Souls content. Maybe more than 1, depending on how you want to organize it.
This makes me want to try a Mashle (STR+INT with fist weapon) build lol. Mashle is an anime and the premise is that the main character isn't able to use magic, which is seen as taboo in their world, but trained his body so much that other people think his physical feats are due to magic. In this case we can say that he was able to harness abyss magic further adding to his taboo nature.
Mash has _no_ INT, buddy.
Well you could always start with a character with at least 12 int, pick up magic weapon, and rock the Oolacile ivory catalyst (or 10 int and Oolacile catalyst, although that’s a 1/200 drop for dlc enemies)
Toji ass build
As spell-boosting items and red stone rings increase attack before defense calculations and not just"final damage"(after defense is calculated) like power within does they often change the damage-to-defense ratio in your favor even in case of resistant enemies so your damage will be increased by more than % stated.
You could make a video about damage increase from above even against magic-resistant enemies.
Two-handing catalyst does not increase the physical damage of the spell video could have mentioned that in the text. (I know it was shown two-handed but still).
Most two-handed R1 attacks have 1.2 MV and usually 50% more poise damage.
Does MV take part before defense or after defense in damage calculations?
Does MV of the weapon affect spell weapon buffs or spell weapon buffs and resins are always flat bonuses?
Is STR capped at 99 or 150 like in ER.
If you two hand at 99 str will you gain some AR benefit or only the MV?
Yeah I’m actually doing motion values in a larger upcoming video. MVs and attack buffs (rtsr, sorcery / miracle rings) apply before damage calculations, so the actual damage out put is higher than what the wikis show by a couple of % points. There are also damage buffs, mainly power within, that are applied after the damage formula is calculated.
What are the chances you could ever do a video on hidden offensive values on weapons? Like everyone knows that stability "determines" how much stamina is lost upon blocking, but what's the offensive value that is compared to stability to complete that equation?
Also, what value is compared to a shield's deflection value to determine if an attack will bounce off?
Yep planning on doing weapon auxiliary effects in an upcoming video
I'm a bit confused, are the strength numbers accounting for the 1.5x multiplier for two handing manus' catalyst?
As far as I saw, he showed two handing the catalyst during the strength test and the numbers didn't change. Anyone else, please chime in if I'm wrong! :)
No boosts when 2-handing sadly.
Love From Canada
Do you get additional damage from 2 handing your catalyst? Since that multiplies Strength by 1.5x and all.
Sadly no. Tried offhanding a second as well but stayed the same.
Would you still be better off using another catalyst so you don't get your spell uses halved? Seems like using Dark Bead twice would always be better than using one from Manus Catalyst.
Yeah I think so. The Manus catalyst and tin crystallization catalyst are really only beneficial if you’re shooting for a one shot build (or quick fight with weapon buffs). I think Logan’s is probably best for a regular play through, or Oolacile at low int levels. Can’t speak for pvp stuff though
The wiki says that oolacile catalyst does more damage with dark magic. Is that true?
Not sure but I’ll take a look
I love these analytical, no-nonsense videos 🖤 Now we know why a muscle mage is objectively the best for dark sorcery in DS1 >:D
Yeah dark sorceries are dope. You can push into the 4-digit barrier without much issue using dark bead even at a 30/30 strength-int build.
The final table is wrong, and again I have some problems with the general explanation. I'll first explain how I believe this should be presented.
As analogon for Magic Adjustment, I will use the term Physical Adjustment (PhysAdj). The physical damage of a spell is exactly calculated as the product of physical MV of the spell with PhysAdj of the catalyst (divided by 100). We can calculate PhysAdj like we would the scaling factor for a melee weapon:
PhysAdj = 100 + StrengthCorrect * StrengthExhaustion + DexCorrect * DexExhaustion.
Here, StrengthCorrect is the scaling (as a letter in the menu or numerical parameter), and is 85 for Manus Catalyst. Because DexCorrect is 0 for Manus and Sorcerer's Catalyst, I can forgive that this did not come up in your tests.
StrengthExhaustion is just how much of the scaling you get at a given strength level, going from 0 at 1 Strength to 100 at 99. This brings us to the erroneous table. Manus catalyst has correctType 14, hence it scales linearly between 1-15, 15-30, 30-50 and 50-99, taking in that order the exhaustion values 0, 10%, 70%, 90%, 100%. In its derivative, we get 0.63%, 4%, 1% and 0.204% per level.
With this, we have a complete system of easy to look up parameters. Meanwhile, I can't tell what you did to come up with the "Phys" factor or those values for the respective spells.
Finally, the use of "Damage" in that last table is obviously questionable, as this whole discussion is about pre-Damage Calculation values.
Since YT doesn't seem to want to let me share my own information, I ask for some e-mail or other contact information from your side. I'd rather help with these (obviously well meant) videos than continue this.
I did practical tests actually, used the same spell on the same enemy roughly 45 times (once I started hitting break points in damage). I actually have every damage output for my test from 1-99 strength saved in a spreadsheet. Obviously I did it against one enemy as opposed to every enemy in the game, but I think it should be fairly accurate. At the very least my conclusions for breakpoints were correct lol
Fwiw, the table at the end does represent damage, not attack, as understanding gameparam data is not intuitive IMO, so I wanted to get a practical formula derived that shows the approximate increase in actual damage output. I understand you’re well intentioned!
Manus catalyst.
Man us catalyst.
Manus catalyst.
Manuuus catalyst.