I just got home from work, I saw your comment, and said, “Wait, what's all the hoo-ha?” Having perused through the comment section, I got to say, I’m sorry, Jess.
I love how much effort goes into doing a little aftershow at the end of the episodes! So many reactors just say "that was great, that was fun, see you next time!bye!" So nice to see someone who, in all the shows they react to, doesn't neglect to give some thought to the aftershow, and on the spot too!
We're now in the Phillip Hinchcliffe era of Doctor Who where the writers are taking inspiration from classic Hammer Horror movies like Frankenstein. The dark tone really works and it's become one of the most popular eras of the classic series.
Love the small but vocal part of the fandom who are obsessed with 'canon' but only the 'canon' they want to be true, and dismiss anything that contradicts it as fanfic (even when it's spelled out clearly in the main show). You can argue about the intention at the time but the Timeless Child 'Break the Matrix' stuff ended that argument whether you like it or not (I *didn't* like it but I was impressed that he did it knowing how controversial it was). DW canon contradicts itself all over the place, especially in origin stories and the Doctor's early history, there's literally no value in obsessing over it or claiming one version is more canonical than the others. And there's definitely no excuse for being rude to people who disagree with you. Love the show you watch, not the show you imagine it to be.
It's super easy to decanonise the TC stuff in your head anyway if you want to - just say it only applies specifically to the Thirteenth regeneration. The new bodies have to come from somewhere.
It's such a shame that a story this atmospheric, this full of dread, imagination & dark comedic moments has 95% of the discussion about it dominated by a single, controversial scene.
@@crackerscheese33 Most people at the time assumed it was Morbius, considering at the time we had seen all previous incarnations of the Doctor from the FIRST Doctor - why do people insist in reading things in that arnt there?
The Brain of Morbius is an excellent story and imo, no story better encapsulates what Hinchcliffe and Holmes were trying to do with Doctor Who. One of my favourite things about it is how all the different plot threads and character motivations are perfectly balanced and intertwined with each other. Each has a knock-on effect on the other and it makes for a very satisfying viewing experience. What I also love and find fascinating is the perception of the Time Lords in the show at this point. From the Doctor's vicious condemnation of them at the start, the Sisterhood of Kahn's distrust and suspicions of them and the backstory of Morbius and what a monster he was, the Time Lords are far from the all-powerful Gods they were portrayed as in The War Games. Everything in this story makes it clear that Time Lord society is far from perfect and there's a lot of skeletons in the closet that they would like to keep hidden. That's why the Doctor saying "there's something going on here, some dirty work they won't touch with their lily-white hands" is so biting and cuts to the heart of the contradiction and hypocrisy of the Time Lords. it's incredible how the writers managed to take the classic story of Frankenstein and weave into Time Lord lore and make it work and it feels totally fresh and unique. The set design, direction, costumes, acting and overall production values, pretty much everything is firing on all cylinders here. I also love how despite the horror and at times graphic content, this story is absolutely hilarious and filled to the brim with classic one liners. I don't think any story has balanced horror and humour quite as brilliantly as this story did. I don't even need to mention Tom Baker, he's operating at peak level at this point. He can go from silly to serious and vice versa in an instant and remain completely believable. However, Phillip Madoc, who last appeared in the show playing the War Lord in The War Games, almost threatens to steal the show from the main man, and that's no easy feat! He has a magnetic screen presence and makes you believe in every word he utters, whether that's proclaiming how great it'll be if he succeeds or hilariously hurling out insults at anyone who gets in his way. It's a perfectly pitched ott performance, never going over the line into farce and it's also a world away from the type of performance he gave as the War Lord, which was very intimidating, quiet and subtle. Phillip Madoc is regarded by many as one of, if not the best repeat guest actor in the show's history and performances like this make it easy to see why. The man had so much range. This is probably my favourite Hincliffe/Holmes era story (it's between this and Genesis of the Daleks) and considering the number of all-time classics there are in this era, that's saying a lot. As with Pyramids of Mars earlier in the season, this is another Robert Holmes rewrite (you can add it to the ever-growing list of Holmes classics) and this time the original scripts were written by none other than the legendary Terrance Dicks, former script editor throughout the third Doctor's era and for most of the second Doctor's final season too. There's actually a funny story behind how it got the Robin Bland pseudonym. Basically, Terrance Dicks' original idea involved a robot building a monster body, but producer Phillip Hinchcliffe didn't think they could make it work within the budget limitations and asked Holmes to rewrite the whole story since Dicks wasn't available. Once Dicks found out about the changes Holmes had made to his scripts, he didn't think his name should be on it anymore because the changes were so extensive it was no longer really his story. He was also really unhappy with the changes and felt they made the story a bland rip off of Frankenstein, so told Holmes over the phone to give it some sort of bland pseudonym and that's how Robin Bland came to be. Sums up who Robert Holmes was and his sense of humour, which is also littered throughout this story and so many others. In later interviews Terrance Dicks admitted he was wrong in his assessment and that the story was anything but bland. The Brain of Morbius is one of the all-time greats imo and my second favourite story of this era after Genesis of the Daleks, I absolutely adore it.
Nice post! Re Philip Madoc, I always thought he'd have been a worthy successor to Roger Delgado as the Master. Like Delgado, he had an uncanny ability to be charming and dangerous at the same time, without ever being over-the-top and melodramatic.
@@ftumschk Thank you. I think you're right about Madoc being a worthy successor to Delgado and it's interesting because in his previous appearance there was another actor that a lot of people say would've made a great Master because his character seems like a prototype for the character, Edward Brayshaw as the War Chief. Some even theorise that he actually is the Master!
The 'Morbius Doctors' aka the faces you didn't recognise in the mind-bending contest divide fans, some consider them pre-Hartnell Doctors, others say they're Morbius' past incarnations when really it was the production team dressing up and having a laugh! They were later confirmed to be past Doctors in the Timeless Child debacle. I still own and treasure a toy of -Emperor Chop Suey- Morbius even though he's missing half the claw, it's one of the most memorable monster designs and its screeches when confronted with fire and the mob driving it to ruin are straight out of the original 1931 Frankenstein. Boris Karloff would be proud.
For what it's worth, Philip HInchcliffe (producer) is quoted as saying that the intention was that the other faces were pre Hartnell doctors. The idea of only 13 regenerations hadn't been introduced yet and they thought it would be fun to imply that the Doctor has been around for a lot longer than people assumed.
So as Pre-hartnell Timeless Child that makes Morbius a Time Child and since the Time Child is The Doctor. Making Morbius the Doctor. Making this a multi Doctor story 40 years after it was made. AND NONE OF IT IS ON SCREEN IN THIS EPISODE. THATS CRAP ON A STICK IMHO.
@@tokublwhovian oh, so it's children's fiction is it? Should be on CBBC or Nickolodeon then. Awfully adult "for children's fiction". Sorry, contempt for disagreement is childish. Go to your room! ;)
The other faces on the "brain fight" apparatus were intended by the production team at the time to be Pre-Hartnell Doctors, and introduce the idea the Doctor had had other bodies before we first saw him onscreen. However, this idea was never brought up again and fans generally went with the explanation that they were Morbius' faces. Until the Timeless Child storyline in New Who, which stated that the Doctor did have pre-Hartnell faces they can't remember, meaning the "Brain fight" faces could canonically be the Doctor's faces. When Jodie breaks the Matrix, this scene briefly flashes up, furthering implying Chibnall intended to say those faces were the Doctor's. Obviously, the Timeless Child concept is pretty controversial, so plenty of fans are happy to just ignore it and maintain these are Morbius' faces. Either way, the faces are played by members of the production team like the producer Phillip Hinchcliffe and regular director Douglas Camfield, as an in joke.
@@conscienceaginBlackadder That explanation could fit as an alternative, and it's a great idea. The Doctor's family has only ever been hinted at (bar Susan), and this would explore it a little without giving away too many details. Sounds like a cool idea to me.
Probably the goriest gunshot in Doctor Who history! Poor Condo! As for the images, Hinchcliffe and Holmes thought they would have some fun, so various members of the production team dressed up as possible earlier Doctors. However, one year later, they backtracked on this, setting a limit of 12 regenerations. Little did they know what controversy the Morbius scene would cause over 40 years later! I remember shortly afterwards there was a theory that the faces were of people who had influenced the Doctor's early life. I once had the privilege of attending an interview with Philip Madoc, where he answered my question, 'How do you act opposite a rubber brain?' After a knowing smile that lasted a fraction of a second, he roared with a passion 'Belief!' Well, he certainly convinced in this, which he and many others felt was the greatest of his four Doctor Who roles.
We're supposed to be avoiding giving spoilers (Sorry, Jess!)... but since it's already out there now, just gonna say, that wasn't a backtrack... =:o} (Love the Philip anecdote. =:o} )
Or dear some of these ranting comments. Makes me sad sometimes to be a Who fan. I got out of fandom back in the 80s as it was just as toxic then. Just enjoy the show for what it is, it has such a rich history, some bits you'll like some you won't.
In Re: The Sisterhood of Karn (semi-spoiler, but it's okay to know this because it isn't revealed in the main media but in the books/other media) -- they are themselves from Gallifrey originally, but were more focused on their telepathic/telekinetic/precognitive abilities instead of technology. They parted for Karn (or were banished there by Rasillon -- timelines/realities differ on this) very far back in Gallifrey's history. (If you're at all familiar with Star Trek, they are essentially still related to Gallifreyans the same way Romulans are to Vulcans.)
This was the first hint at Pre-Hartnell Doctors though i still maintain no matter what we're told in "The Timeless Children" that those other faces belong to Morbius and that the First Doctor is the First Doctor, this was also used as part of the Doctor's flashback in that episode. What i also found shocking was when Condo got his guts shot out that was controversial at the time as it was a step too far for a children's show that aired in the afternoon at teatime but i personally liked it and i think the producers and writers need to take some risky steps in NuWho every now and then have abit of blood and guts because i feel NuWho focuses too hard on the good writing rather than taking the experimental approach. Morbius was an interesting villain and would like to see him return if done right.
it's from this story that Hinchcliffe was going too far, going for an intensely harder show, for older kids, than it had mostly been before or was invented to be.
I'm with you totally on WH being the First Doctor but I alway thought that the other faces were actually a false trail laid by the Doctor to trick Morbius. Regarding the violence, I originally watched this story when I was 5 or 6 and I loved it. Mary Whitehouse and her ilk didn't know what they were talking about 🙄
Shortly after The Timeless Children aired, I caught a joke/semi-serious comment saying something like, “I think the Whovian fandom collectively owes Philip Hinchcliffe an apology.”
@@frankshailes3205 Not entirely sure why. Maybe because they removed any doubt about the idea of pre-One Doctors. Like I said, it’s what I came across, and I just thought it was an amusing comment.
Maybe three times if we include when they chased snake man away (ok so he wanted to take the doc to davros but he may have ended up there without clara and missy and etcetera etcetera)
Technically, Solon could have shot the Doctor, who would have regenerated, and Solon could have removed the new head fairly easily before the Doctor fully recovered. I'm sure that others have gone into the other faces seen during the Doctor/Morbius duel, Timeless Children, blah, blah, so I won't go into that. I did have a debate with someone in the comments section of another channel's Timeless Children reaction recently, where they maintained that absolutely anyone who watched episode four would assume that the faces were of the Doctor, while I upheld that some viewers might find it ambiguous and think they might be of Morbius, so I'm very grateful to you for proving my point. 😃
I love Morbius design in the story. So creative and menacing. It's amusing how he is the most iconic part of the story is only a part of it for half an episode. Again love the Sisterhood. Great addition to Time Lord lore. Glad they where expanded on in the revival. Talking about lore, and what should or shouldn't be added.... I really want to see the Mind bending scene retconed. They hadn't established the timeline yet but that was just a sight gag for producers to cameo. Only making it canon now really screws with the continuity. If they do retcon here's how: 1, it was just The Doctor casting false faces. 2, It's Morbius' past incarnations. 3, Omega implanted himself into The Doctor's consciousness when they telepathically fought and those are his incarnations. 4, it's some Matrix data he stored in his head for safeguarding, leaving it vague for future stories. Sorry Jess for having to sift through these Timeless Children comments
They really leant into the horror genre for a lot the forth Doctor's stories under Philip Hinchcliffe. Was also around this time the program was attacked most by the National Viewers' and Listeners' Association for it's contents, their founder and president Mary Whitehouse said that The Brain of Morbius "contained some of the sickest and most horrific material seen on children's television" and described Genesis of the Daleks as "teatime brutality for tots" (why she thought it was aimed at children THAT young is anyone's guess). Afterwards the cast and crew would jokingly credit these complaints for their increased popularity at the time. If you get round to rewatching classic stories it's very worth listening to the commentaries, people coming back years later to reminisce over the story, about what people did before and after.
Good old Mary Whitehouse. If there was anything worth watching on TV at the time you could guarantee that she'd try and bugger it up for you. As one of those 'tot's ' who watched it on it's original broadcast I can safely say that even if there were a couple of moments when it crossed the line I loved every second of it. Kids don't mind being scared as long they know there's a character like The Doctor around to save the day.
Why she thought it was aimed at children that young came from when it started. I'm a social libertarian and don't share her values, but think she was right about the late Hinchcliffe era from here on. Imagine the show's direction of travel if this period had been let go on for longer (notice not spoilering how long it went on)
Those two pilliows look very familiar! I think I bought ours the same as you perhaps only I picked a different pattern. Khols perhaps. Great show. I saw it in the 1970s. Its sort of their take on Frankenstein me thinks.
Met so many actors/actresses from this story at cons. Apart from Tom and Lis i have met Philip Madoc and Colin Fay (tit willow anyone), However, the most interesting person to see at a con is Gilly Brown (ohica) She is a woman of strong oppinions regarding the afterlife (ie she belives in ghosts)
What I love about this story -- So funny! Like Solon yelling at Sarah 'Did you see that?! Did you see him move!?", and Sarah's deadpan "No, I didn't." -- Sarah's blindness never stopping her! There have been quite a few companions who would have done much more crying and less taking action. -- The Sisterhood are the ones to finish off Morbius, with an old-fashioned crowd with torches! Right off the cliff! As glad as I was to see him gone, bringing back Morbius would be a great idea! Did Solon make the body strong enough to survive that drop? Hiding out right under everyone's noses? I'm sure it's been done either in Big Finish or the novels, but I'd love to see why the Timelords where so fearful of him they tried to scatter his atoms across the universe!
It's still revelatory how this single story potentially invented the notion of 'The Timeless Child' - and it was completely unnecessary from a casual viewer's perspective. Back then Dr Who was a low budget pot-boiler on BBC TV and it really didn't matter. The present was what mattered. And I sometimes think our all times everywhere perspective harms this show's development.
The faces we see in the mind battle are seen in the flashback scene in The Timeless Children. When writing the episode they were intended to be past incarnations of the Doctor but The Timeless Children confirmed it.
Some people are really vehement when denying that the Doctors shown in this story are the Doctor and claiming they are instead Morbius...despite the fact it is well known (and was long before the Timeless Child) that they were supposed to be past incarnations of the Doctor. They *do* fit into the 'Cartmel Masterplan' that was created for the Seventh Doctor era but unused except for a hint or two; it was further explored in the New Adventures novels. The basic idea was that the Doctor had a previous lifecycle where he was a key figure in Gallifreyan society and had a different name - the incarnations shown in this story could easily have been incarnations from *that* lifecycle and unlike the Timeless Child nonsense it wouldn't have undone Hartnell as being the 1st "Doctor".
I think it’s basically the same either way. In both scenarios there was life before Hartnell. Either he has his memories stolen and his biology was changed with the chameleon arc. Or he was the other and got scrambled in the looms and remade as the doctor. I don’t like either to be honest but I can see why one might prefer one over the other
24:58 - "I don't entirely understand what was being shown. Maybe that was Morbius." Thank you! For decades, it was just generally accepted that these were Morbius' faces. The fandom was happy to explain them away as that. Like back in "The Three Doctors", there's a Time Lord who says, "show me the earliest Doctor" and we see the First Doctor. So if we see faces we don't recognise, the only explanation is that they must have belonged to Morbius. Since "The Timeless Children", people act like it was OBVIOUSLY meant to be the Doctor's previous faces that we hadn't seen. But your reaction shows that it really wasn't that clear. We see Morbius' face first and hear his voiceover when those faces appear, so the implication is that they were his. I'm convinced the only reason "The Timeless Children" exists is because Chris Chibnall had his own headcanon after watching this story and wanted to put it on screen, no matter how disheartening it is that the First Doctor is no longer the First Doctor.
👀 you’ve misunderstood (*whispers* and it shows 🤭) Hartnell is still the “First Doctor” as shown in merch and material related to the show, tweets celebrating the 59th anniversary of the show and so on. Time to get over TTC and stop making it your personality.
@@tokublwhovian contempt at no charge by you. So how did you like this Multi-Doctor story where he is both hero and villain (a destroyer of worlds) Do you think Verity or Sydney would approve?
Oh those bloody faces. They've certainly been on a journey. Originally intended as previous incarnations of The Doctor before that no longer fit with the rest of canon with most fans deciding they were previous incarnations of Morbius instead until the whole Timeless Child arc firmly established them as previous incarnations of the Doctor as originally intended by showing them in the montage 13 uses to blow up the Matrix on Gallifrey.
I thought, even back then, it was obvious those faces were Morbius. Any other conclusion was ludicrous. But we live in a ludicrous age where awful fanfic is "canon".
Ahhh Yes, the "Morbius Doctors" One of the great Questions/Puzzles/Mysteries of the classic series! Until the "Timeless Child". Myself, I accept them as really early Doctors..Earlies than Hartnell!
Jess, PLEASE react to His Dark Materials: Season 3!! The first two episodes just aired tonight and they're amazing! I know you loved the first two seasons of the show.
Morbius was atomised. The Doctor was forced to regenerate and exiled - but later he has been left free to wander / interfere in other cultures as he wishes, and in exchange the Time Lord's send him on the occasional mission. Both rebelled against Time Lord society, but in massively different ways. Interestingly the Master has also pretty much been left to do as he wishes - occasionally the Time Lord's send the Doctor to foil his plan's, but they don't mount a big intervention on the scale of what they do to stop the Doctor or Morbius. Ironic given the Master has since destroyed Galifrey and the Time Lord's in the recent series / specials from the current series. In someway this suggests that the Doctors idea's are ultimately seen as more dangerous to Galifrey society / the Time Lord's compared to the Master, but less of a threat than Morbius. This basic idea gets shown and in someway reinforced throughout the 4th, 5th & 6th Doctor's runs especially, so worth keeping an eye out for this going forward.
Come on people Sesska took time out of her schedule to do this reaction. You don't have to like the Timeless child/Morbius idea but the least we can do is not act like self-entitled trolls that whine and complain about the connection with the Timeless child in the comments.
For many, the show is very important to them as is the canon and the Doctor's mystery. The people complaining aren't trolling, they simply giving their valid opinion on the debacle of TTC and connecting the two stories. Leave them be and let them have their say. After all, this comment section is open to all and all opinions.
Russel T won't retcon the Timeless Child, he's an on the record fan of the idea. That being said I doubt he'll bring it up too much, if at all. So the idea those faces are pre Hartnell IS a valid possibility.
I love the cliffhangers in this story, the actors, the characters, the ideas, the fun dialogue. It is so dark and deliciously delightful at the same time.
Those faces are the Doctors between "Ruth" & Hartnell. The thing which interests me about this is that it makes TB the 12th (at least Doctor), shortly before the Deadly Assassin establishes the 13th limit. I'm assuming Hinchcliffe had a story in mind which (shakes first to the heavens) Mary Whitehouse derailed.
That would make the 5th Doctor the 13th. Given his last line (which for obvious reasons I can't post) always made me theorise this was why. Of course, this no longer works in regard to the new series.
That makes an extremely long time the tarsis was stuck as a police box before (1) he stole it at all, looking like a bland grey cylinder, (2) it got stuck as a police box
@@sabalomglitz6478 🥱 change the record, grow up and move on 😴 it’s called bait, don’t you know what the word means? I’ll tell you, deliberately annoy or taunt 😊
One of my favorites from the Baker monster series. I never thought that the previous figures were supposed to be earlier Doctors, I thought they were all Morbius... but WTH! I always thought that canon should not be allowed to get in the way of a good story line. One of my favorite moments from this era was in the first episode where the Doctor is standing in the pouring rain with a broken umbrella, acting completely oblivious. We didnt use the word "meme" back then, but the victim approaching the haunted castle door and waiting for Dracula/Dr Frankenstein is such a meme and with a single accessory the Doctor turned it on its head.
@@robert_bbiii so since Tom baker was intended to be in the last Jodie and Chris was intended to be in the Day of tye Doctor we can just write so really horrible fan fiction and get it 9n screen and Bob's your uncle, it's all fine. (Barf)
@@sabalomglitz6478 bad fan fiction happens anyway. The difference here is it made it to screen. It is in the episode. That is what the writer was implying.
@@tokublwhovian oh, but in 2022 an opinion is fact. The Leftists, The leftist Media, and The Woke made it so. Their opinions are facts. So, I guess you don't have your facts straight. ;)
This comment section exhausts me.
Right there with you. =:o\
My favourite Mighty Morphin' Pain in the Ass at it again
Not looked there yet, not planning to either, hah.
lol just wait till talons
I just got home from work, I saw your comment, and said, “Wait, what's all the hoo-ha?” Having perused through the comment section, I got to say, I’m sorry, Jess.
I love how much effort goes into doing a little aftershow at the end of the episodes! So many reactors just say "that was great, that was fun, see you next time!bye!" So nice to see someone who, in all the shows they react to, doesn't neglect to give some thought to the aftershow, and on the spot too!
It's Morbin time
Mighty Morbin Power Doctors!
Me and my grandma are watching all doctor who episodes in order we just finished this episode
We're now in the Phillip Hinchcliffe era of Doctor Who where the writers are taking inspiration from classic Hammer Horror movies like Frankenstein. The dark tone really works and it's become one of the most popular eras of the classic series.
Love the small but vocal part of the fandom who are obsessed with 'canon' but only the 'canon' they want to be true, and dismiss anything that contradicts it as fanfic (even when it's spelled out clearly in the main show). You can argue about the intention at the time but the Timeless Child 'Break the Matrix' stuff ended that argument whether you like it or not (I *didn't* like it but I was impressed that he did it knowing how controversial it was). DW canon contradicts itself all over the place, especially in origin stories and the Doctor's early history, there's literally no value in obsessing over it or claiming one version is more canonical than the others. And there's definitely no excuse for being rude to people who disagree with you. Love the show you watch, not the show you imagine it to be.
It's super easy to decanonise the TC stuff in your head anyway if you want to - just say it only applies specifically to the Thirteenth regeneration. The new bodies have to come from somewhere.
Yep, people only care about canon if it validates themselves. lol
It's such a shame that a story this atmospheric, this full of dread, imagination & dark comedic moments has 95% of the discussion about it dominated by a single, controversial scene.
Bad fan fic wish fulfillment. Yes, it is a pity.
@@sabalomglitz6478 'be careful what you wish for' - a phrase never truer said
@@keithsolley that's usually a warning.... :)
@@sabalomglitz6478 “Yes, it is a pity” did you just imagine Obsidian saying that? 😬 creep.
@@tokublwhovian a member of Infinity, Inc? What does that have do with this? He's not The Doctor is he?
The faces of Morbius you see during the Mind-Bending duel are that of 'Doctor Who' writers and producers.
*the Doctor
faces or fa - e - ces ?
@@danniemadsen1996 Morbius
@@metalmugen the Doctor. Cope with it.
@@crackerscheese33 Most people at the time assumed it was Morbius, considering at the time we had seen all previous incarnations of the Doctor from the FIRST Doctor - why do people insist in reading things in that arnt there?
The Brain of Morbius is an excellent story and imo, no story better encapsulates what Hinchcliffe and Holmes were trying to do with Doctor Who. One of my favourite things about it is how all the different plot threads and character motivations are perfectly balanced and intertwined with each other. Each has a knock-on effect on the other and it makes for a very satisfying viewing experience. What I also love and find fascinating is the perception of the Time Lords in the show at this point. From the Doctor's vicious condemnation of them at the start, the Sisterhood of Kahn's distrust and suspicions of them and the backstory of Morbius and what a monster he was, the Time Lords are far from the all-powerful Gods they were portrayed as in The War Games. Everything in this story makes it clear that Time Lord society is far from perfect and there's a lot of skeletons in the closet that they would like to keep hidden. That's why the Doctor saying "there's something going on here, some dirty work they won't touch with their lily-white hands" is so biting and cuts to the heart of the contradiction and hypocrisy of the Time Lords. it's incredible how the writers managed to take the classic story of Frankenstein and weave into Time Lord lore and make it work and it feels totally fresh and unique. The set design, direction, costumes, acting and overall production values, pretty much everything is firing on all cylinders here.
I also love how despite the horror and at times graphic content, this story is absolutely hilarious and filled to the brim with classic one liners. I don't think any story has balanced horror and humour quite as brilliantly as this story did. I don't even need to mention Tom Baker, he's operating at peak level at this point. He can go from silly to serious and vice versa in an instant and remain completely believable. However, Phillip Madoc, who last appeared in the show playing the War Lord in The War Games, almost threatens to steal the show from the main man, and that's no easy feat! He has a magnetic screen presence and makes you believe in every word he utters, whether that's proclaiming how great it'll be if he succeeds or hilariously hurling out insults at anyone who gets in his way. It's a perfectly pitched ott performance, never going over the line into farce and it's also a world away from the type of performance he gave as the War Lord, which was very intimidating, quiet and subtle. Phillip Madoc is regarded by many as one of, if not the best repeat guest actor in the show's history and performances like this make it easy to see why. The man had so much range. This is probably my favourite Hincliffe/Holmes era story (it's between this and Genesis of the Daleks) and considering the number of all-time classics there are in this era, that's saying a lot.
As with Pyramids of Mars earlier in the season, this is another Robert Holmes rewrite (you can add it to the ever-growing list of Holmes classics) and this time the original scripts were written by none other than the legendary Terrance Dicks, former script editor throughout the third Doctor's era and for most of the second Doctor's final season too. There's actually a funny story behind how it got the Robin Bland pseudonym. Basically, Terrance Dicks' original idea involved a robot building a monster body, but producer Phillip Hinchcliffe didn't think they could make it work within the budget limitations and asked Holmes to rewrite the whole story since Dicks wasn't available. Once Dicks found out about the changes Holmes had made to his scripts, he didn't think his name should be on it anymore because the changes were so extensive it was no longer really his story. He was also really unhappy with the changes and felt they made the story a bland rip off of Frankenstein, so told Holmes over the phone to give it some sort of bland pseudonym and that's how Robin Bland came to be. Sums up who Robert Holmes was and his sense of humour, which is also littered throughout this story and so many others. In later interviews Terrance Dicks admitted he was wrong in his assessment and that the story was anything but bland. The Brain of Morbius is one of the all-time greats imo and my second favourite story of this era after Genesis of the Daleks, I absolutely adore it.
Nice post! Re Philip Madoc, I always thought he'd have been a worthy successor to Roger Delgado as the Master. Like Delgado, he had an uncanny ability to be charming and dangerous at the same time, without ever being over-the-top and melodramatic.
@@ftumschk Thank you. I think you're right about Madoc being a worthy successor to Delgado and it's interesting because in his previous appearance there was another actor that a lot of people say would've made a great Master because his character seems like a prototype for the character, Edward Brayshaw as the War Chief. Some even theorise that he actually is the Master!
Sisterhood of Karn shows up in "Doctor Who- Night of the Doctor", featuring Paul McGann.
You'd think that a brain surgeon like Solon would realise that once a cerebellum has smooshed on the floor like that it's rendered Abby Normal.
Are you telling me he put an Abnormal brain seven foot, 180 pound wide GORILLA?!
"How far, Doctor? How long have you lived?"
love this one so much.
The 'Morbius Doctors' aka the faces you didn't recognise in the mind-bending contest divide fans, some consider them pre-Hartnell Doctors, others say they're Morbius' past incarnations when really it was the production team dressing up and having a laugh! They were later confirmed to be past Doctors in the Timeless Child debacle.
I still own and treasure a toy of -Emperor Chop Suey- Morbius even though he's missing half the claw, it's one of the most memorable monster designs and its screeches when confronted with fire and the mob driving it to ruin are straight out of the original 1931 Frankenstein. Boris Karloff would be proud.
For what it's worth, Philip HInchcliffe (producer) is quoted as saying that the intention was that the other faces were pre Hartnell doctors. The idea of only 13 regenerations hadn't been introduced yet and they thought it would be fun to imply that the Doctor has been around for a lot longer than people assumed.
So as Pre-hartnell Timeless Child that makes Morbius a Time Child and since the Time Child is The Doctor. Making Morbius the Doctor. Making this a multi Doctor story 40 years after it was made. AND NONE OF IT IS ON SCREEN IN THIS EPISODE. THATS CRAP ON A STICK IMHO.
@@sabalomglitz6478 stop having a tantrum over childrens fiction 😂
@@tokublwhovian oh, so it's children's fiction is it? Should be on CBBC or Nickolodeon then. Awfully adult "for children's fiction". Sorry, contempt for disagreement is childish. Go to your room! ;)
@@sabalomglitz6478 Doctor Who isn’t really adult in the way Torchwood or Class is… if it was, children wouldn’t the target audience and watching.
The other faces on the "brain fight" apparatus were intended by the production team at the time to be Pre-Hartnell Doctors, and introduce the idea the Doctor had had other bodies before we first saw him onscreen. However, this idea was never brought up again and fans generally went with the explanation that they were Morbius' faces.
Until the Timeless Child storyline in New Who, which stated that the Doctor did have pre-Hartnell faces they can't remember, meaning the "Brain fight" faces could canonically be the Doctor's faces. When Jodie breaks the Matrix, this scene briefly flashes up, furthering implying Chibnall intended to say those faces were the Doctor's. Obviously, the Timeless Child concept is pretty controversial, so plenty of fans are happy to just ignore it and maintain these are Morbius' faces.
Either way, the faces are played by members of the production team like the producer Phillip Hinchcliffe and regular director Douglas Camfield, as an in joke.
I propose they are the Doctor's dad + grandad. "How far back .." implies that to me.
@@conscienceaginBlackadder That explanation could fit as an alternative, and it's a great idea.
The Doctor's family has only ever been hinted at (bar Susan), and this would explore it a little without giving away too many details. Sounds like a cool idea to me.
Probably the goriest gunshot in Doctor Who history! Poor Condo!
As for the images, Hinchcliffe and Holmes thought they would have some fun, so various members of the production team dressed up as possible earlier Doctors. However, one year later, they backtracked on this, setting a limit of 12 regenerations. Little did they know what controversy the Morbius scene would cause over 40 years later! I remember shortly afterwards there was a theory that the faces were of people who had influenced the Doctor's early life.
I once had the privilege of attending an interview with Philip Madoc, where he answered my question, 'How do you act opposite a rubber brain?'
After a knowing smile that lasted a fraction of a second, he roared with a passion 'Belief!'
Well, he certainly convinced in this, which he and many others felt was the greatest of his four Doctor Who roles.
We're supposed to be avoiding giving spoilers (Sorry, Jess!)... but since it's already out there now, just gonna say, that wasn't a backtrack... =:o}
(Love the Philip anecdote. =:o} )
At 15:21, it’s likely the same gold goblet that the 8th Doctor drinks from in “The Night of the Doctor.” 🏆
glad you appreciated the background
Or dear some of these ranting comments. Makes me sad sometimes to be a Who fan. I got out of fandom back in the 80s as it was just as toxic then. Just enjoy the show for what it is, it has such a rich history, some bits you'll like some you won't.
In Re: The Sisterhood of Karn (semi-spoiler, but it's okay to know this because it isn't revealed in the main media but in the books/other media) -- they are themselves from Gallifrey originally, but were more focused on their telepathic/telekinetic/precognitive abilities instead of technology. They parted for Karn (or were banished there by Rasillon -- timelines/realities differ on this) very far back in Gallifrey's history. (If you're at all familiar with Star Trek, they are essentially still related to Gallifreyans the same way Romulans are to Vulcans.)
This was the first hint at Pre-Hartnell Doctors though i still maintain no matter what we're told in "The Timeless Children" that those other faces belong to Morbius and that the First Doctor is the First Doctor, this was also used as part of the Doctor's flashback in that episode.
What i also found shocking was when Condo got his guts shot out that was controversial at the time as it was a step too far for a children's show that aired in the afternoon at teatime but i personally liked it and i think the producers and writers need to take some risky steps in NuWho every now and then have abit of blood and guts because i feel NuWho focuses too hard on the good writing rather than taking the experimental approach.
Morbius was an interesting villain and would like to see him return if done right.
it's from this story that Hinchcliffe was going too far, going for an intensely harder show, for older kids, than it had mostly been before or was invented to be.
I'm with you totally on WH being the First Doctor but I alway thought that the other faces were actually a false trail laid by the Doctor to trick Morbius. Regarding the violence, I originally watched this story when I was 5 or 6 and I loved it. Mary Whitehouse and her ilk didn't know what they were talking about 🙄
Shortly after The Timeless Children aired, I caught a joke/semi-serious comment saying something like, “I think the Whovian fandom collectively owes Philip Hinchcliffe an apology.”
I don't get it...
Why? Most of us always said it was the Doctor.
@@frankshailes3205 Not entirely sure why. Maybe because they removed any doubt about the idea of pre-One Doctors. Like I said, it’s what I came across, and I just thought it was an amusing comment.
This is what was referenced in the Timeless Child. The other faces.
Doctor: "I should have stayed with him!"
**Sesska looks to camera** : 😐
The Sisterhood saved the Doctor's life twice. The second time in The Night of the Doctor, when the 8th Doctor regenerates into the War Doctor.
Maybe three times if we include when they chased snake man away (ok so he wanted to take the doc to davros but he may have ended up there without clara and missy and etcetera etcetera)
Wonderful reaction and observations. Thank you as always ❤
Great conclusion to a brilliantly entertaining story. Your reactions are always such fun, thank you 😆👍
Technically, Solon could have shot the Doctor, who would have regenerated, and Solon could have removed the new head fairly easily before the Doctor fully recovered. I'm sure that others have gone into the other faces seen during the Doctor/Morbius duel, Timeless Children, blah, blah, so I won't go into that. I did have a debate with someone in the comments section of another channel's Timeless Children reaction recently, where they maintained that absolutely anyone who watched episode four would assume that the faces were of the Doctor, while I upheld that some viewers might find it ambiguous and think they might be of Morbius, so I'm very grateful to you for proving my point. 😃
I love Morbius design in the story. So creative and menacing. It's amusing how he is the most iconic part of the story is only a part of it for half an episode.
Again love the Sisterhood. Great addition to Time Lord lore. Glad they where expanded on in the revival.
Talking about lore, and what should or shouldn't be added....
I really want to see the Mind bending scene retconed. They hadn't established the timeline yet but that was just a sight gag for producers to cameo. Only making it canon now really screws with the continuity.
If they do retcon here's how:
1, it was just The Doctor casting false faces.
2, It's Morbius' past incarnations.
3, Omega implanted himself into The Doctor's consciousness when they telepathically fought and those are his incarnations.
4, it's some Matrix data he stored in his head for safeguarding, leaving it vague for future stories.
Sorry Jess for having to sift through these Timeless Children comments
There was no need for the eye horns on his plastic dome.
Its definitely a unique design though
They really leant into the horror genre for a lot the forth Doctor's stories under Philip Hinchcliffe.
Was also around this time the program was attacked most by the National Viewers' and Listeners' Association for it's contents, their founder and president Mary Whitehouse said that The Brain of Morbius "contained some of the sickest and most horrific material seen on children's television" and described Genesis of the Daleks as "teatime brutality for tots" (why she thought it was aimed at children THAT young is anyone's guess).
Afterwards the cast and crew would jokingly credit these complaints for their increased popularity at the time. If you get round to rewatching classic stories it's very worth listening to the commentaries, people coming back years later to reminisce over the story, about what people did before and after.
Good old Mary Whitehouse. If there was anything worth watching on TV at the time you could guarantee that she'd try and bugger it up for you. As one of those 'tot's ' who watched it on it's original broadcast I can safely say that even if there were a couple of moments when it crossed the line I loved every second of it. Kids don't mind being scared as long they know there's a character like The Doctor around to save the day.
Why she thought it was aimed at children that young came from when it started. I'm a social libertarian and don't share her values, but think she was right about the late Hinchcliffe era from here on. Imagine the show's direction of travel if this period had been let go on for longer
(notice not spoilering how long it went on)
The next story is my favorite from the classic era (just in time for Christmas!)
Those two pilliows look very familiar! I think I bought ours the same as you perhaps only I picked a different pattern. Khols perhaps. Great show. I saw it in the 1970s. Its sort of their take on Frankenstein me thinks.
Met so many actors/actresses from this story at cons.
Apart from Tom and Lis i have met Philip Madoc and Colin Fay (tit willow anyone),
However, the most interesting person to see at a con is Gilly Brown (ohica)
She is a woman of strong oppinions regarding the afterlife (ie she belives in ghosts)
Every time you said "HIS CREATION," I just wanted to start singing "Weird Science."
This story had some criticism with the violence. Mainly the scene when Solon shoots Condo in the stomach.
Love the reaction, love the story also love the hair and outfit queen x
Back in the 70s, this was my favourite story ever - for about a week, until.... 😉
Now you know why the Eighth Doctor on his return to Karn (Night of the Doctor) said to the Keepers of the flame ‘you were never big on gratitude’
What I love about this story -- So funny! Like Solon yelling at Sarah 'Did you see that?! Did you see him move!?", and Sarah's deadpan "No, I didn't."
-- Sarah's blindness never stopping her! There have been quite a few companions who would have done much more crying and less taking action.
-- The Sisterhood are the ones to finish off Morbius, with an old-fashioned crowd with torches! Right off the cliff!
As glad as I was to see him gone, bringing back Morbius would be a great idea! Did Solon make the body strong enough to survive that drop? Hiding out right under everyone's noses? I'm sure it's been done either in Big Finish or the novels, but I'd love to see why the Timelords where so fearful of him they tried to scatter his atoms across the universe!
The Morbius monster is so hilarious. Great costume design.
It's still revelatory how this single story potentially invented the notion of 'The Timeless Child' - and it was completely unnecessary from a casual viewer's perspective. Back then Dr Who was a low budget pot-boiler on BBC TV and it really didn't matter. The present was what mattered. And I sometimes think our all times everywhere perspective harms this show's development.
The faces we see in the mind battle are seen in the flashback scene in The Timeless Children. When writing the episode they were intended to be past incarnations of the Doctor but The Timeless Children confirmed it.
Some people are really vehement when denying that the Doctors shown in this story are the Doctor and claiming they are instead Morbius...despite the fact it is well known (and was long before the Timeless Child) that they were supposed to be past incarnations of the Doctor.
They *do* fit into the 'Cartmel Masterplan' that was created for the Seventh Doctor era but unused except for a hint or two; it was further explored in the New Adventures novels. The basic idea was that the Doctor had a previous lifecycle where he was a key figure in Gallifreyan society and had a different name - the incarnations shown in this story could easily have been incarnations from *that* lifecycle and unlike the Timeless Child nonsense it wouldn't have undone Hartnell as being the 1st "Doctor".
I think it’s basically the same either way. In both scenarios there was life before Hartnell.
Either he has his memories stolen and his biology was changed with the chameleon arc.
Or he was the other and got scrambled in the looms and remade as the doctor.
I don’t like either to be honest but I can see why one might prefer one over the other
24:58 - "I don't entirely understand what was being shown. Maybe that was Morbius."
Thank you! For decades, it was just generally accepted that these were Morbius' faces. The fandom was happy to explain them away as that. Like back in "The Three Doctors", there's a Time Lord who says, "show me the earliest Doctor" and we see the First Doctor. So if we see faces we don't recognise, the only explanation is that they must have belonged to Morbius.
Since "The Timeless Children", people act like it was OBVIOUSLY meant to be the Doctor's previous faces that we hadn't seen. But your reaction shows that it really wasn't that clear. We see Morbius' face first and hear his voiceover when those faces appear, so the implication is that they were his.
I'm convinced the only reason "The Timeless Children" exists is because Chris Chibnall had his own headcanon after watching this story and wanted to put it on screen, no matter how disheartening it is that the First Doctor is no longer the First Doctor.
👀 you’ve misunderstood (*whispers* and it shows 🤭) Hartnell is still the “First Doctor” as shown in merch and material related to the show, tweets celebrating the 59th anniversary of the show and so on. Time to get over TTC and stop making it your personality.
@@tokublwhovian contempt at no charge by you. So how did you like this Multi-Doctor story where he is both hero and villain (a destroyer of worlds) Do you think Verity or Sydney would approve?
@@sabalomglitz6478 I love it when characters are heroes and villains, usually referred to as anti-heroes 😌
@@tokublwhovian I don't intend to argue in Sesskasays' comments section. Hope you enjoyed the video.
@@Wannabe_Baby I don’t intent to argue either 👍🏻 just giving my opinion, which you’re freely to disagree with 😊
Oh dear these comments
Oh those bloody faces. They've certainly been on a journey. Originally intended as previous incarnations of The Doctor before that no longer fit with the rest of canon with most fans deciding they were previous incarnations of Morbius instead until the whole Timeless Child arc firmly established them as previous incarnations of the Doctor as originally intended by showing them in the montage 13 uses to blow up the Matrix on Gallifrey.
my favourite scene 😁
I thought, even back then, it was obvious those faces were Morbius. Any other conclusion was ludicrous. But we live in a ludicrous age where awful fanfic is "canon".
@@sabalomglitz6478 confirmed by Classic Who writers they were The Doctor 😃 keep crying
Why has nobody thought of being the Doctor's dad + grandad? "How far back do you go.." implies that to me
Ahhh Yes, the "Morbius Doctors" One of the great Questions/Puzzles/Mysteries of the classic series! Until the "Timeless Child". Myself, I accept them as really early Doctors..Earlies than Hartnell!
Morbius ? It’s morbin time
Jess, PLEASE react to His Dark Materials: Season 3!! The first two episodes just aired tonight and they're amazing! I know you loved the first two seasons of the show.
Stuart Fell was the actor/stuntman within the Morbius costume but he actually had a bit to say on the initial design, he had claws in his contract...
Owwwww!!!! [THWAPPS YOU] =:oD
Been looking forward to this one
...Can you say "Frankenstein" (or "FRAUNCKENSTINE")???
15:15 - notice how when Morbius falls off the cliff, he bumps into the camera? 😂
Yeah Stuart Fell spoke about that. The head bit was top heavy and he fell wrong
He's a big fan of the Zarbi. Recreating their finest moment.
Morbius was atomised.
The Doctor was forced to regenerate and exiled - but later he has been left free to wander / interfere in other cultures as he wishes, and in exchange the Time Lord's send him on the occasional mission.
Both rebelled against Time Lord society, but in massively different ways.
Interestingly the Master has also pretty much been left to do as he wishes - occasionally the Time Lord's send the Doctor to foil his plan's, but they don't mount a big intervention on the scale of what they do to stop the Doctor or Morbius.
Ironic given the Master has since destroyed Galifrey and the Time Lord's in the recent series / specials from the current series.
In someway this suggests that the Doctors idea's are ultimately seen as more dangerous to Galifrey society / the Time Lord's compared to the Master, but less of a threat than Morbius.
This basic idea gets shown and in someway reinforced throughout the 4th, 5th & 6th Doctor's runs especially, so worth keeping an eye out for this going forward.
Come on people Sesska took time out of her schedule to do this reaction. You don't have to like the Timeless child/Morbius idea but the least we can do is not act like self-entitled trolls that whine and complain about the connection with the Timeless child in the comments.
For many, the show is very important to them as is the canon and the Doctor's mystery. The people complaining aren't trolling, they simply giving their valid opinion on the debacle of TTC and connecting the two stories. Leave them be and let them have their say. After all, this comment section is open to all and all opinions.
Russel T won't retcon the Timeless Child, he's an on the record fan of the idea. That being said I doubt he'll bring it up too much, if at all. So the idea those faces are pre Hartnell IS a valid possibility.
His Dark Materials S3 pls :(
I love the cliffhangers in this story, the actors, the characters, the ideas, the fun dialogue. It is so dark and deliciously delightful at the same time.
Those faces are the Doctors between "Ruth" & Hartnell. The thing which interests me about this is that it makes TB the 12th (at least Doctor), shortly before the Deadly Assassin establishes the 13th limit. I'm assuming Hinchcliffe had a story in mind which (shakes first to the heavens) Mary Whitehouse derailed.
That would make the 5th Doctor the 13th. Given his last line (which for obvious reasons I can't post) always made me theorise this was why. Of course, this no longer works in regard to the new series.
That makes an extremely long time the tarsis was stuck as a police box before (1) he stole it at all, looking like a bland grey cylinder, (2) it got stuck as a police box
Nah, I always interpreted it as the Doctor’s count being artificially reset to 1/13 by the time of the First Doctor.
That would be a massive retcon fun 1975, @@BlackCover95.
please react to Wednesday
Excellent story but next week mmmm☺👍
“We see deeper though. Further back. The Timeless Child” 😁
Where with in this episode when it aired is that mentioned?
@@sabalomglitz6478 42 years later 😉 I knew you’d fall for this 😂 thank you for doing so 🍻
@@tokublwhovian fall for what? Bad fanfic? What? That it isn't in the episode so bad fanfic created it? What?
@@sabalomglitz6478 🥱 change the record, grow up and move on 😴 it’s called bait, don’t you know what the word means? I’ll tell you, deliberately annoy or taunt 😊
@@tokublwhovian so you're a troll?
One of my favorites from the Baker monster series. I never thought that the previous figures were supposed to be earlier Doctors, I thought they were all Morbius... but WTH! I always thought that canon should not be allowed to get in the way of a good story line. One of my favorite moments from this era was in the first episode where the Doctor is standing in the pouring rain with a broken umbrella, acting completely oblivious. We didnt use the word "meme" back then, but the victim approaching the haunted castle door and waiting for Dracula/Dr Frankenstein is such a meme and with a single accessory the Doctor turned it on its head.
The writer intended them to be earlier Doctors. Just put it there for others to use. It just never caught one until now.
@@robert_bbiii so since Tom baker was intended to be in the last Jodie and Chris was intended to be in the Day of tye Doctor we can just write so really horrible fan fiction and get it 9n screen and Bob's your uncle, it's all fine. (Barf)
@@sabalomglitz6478 bad fan fiction happens anyway.
The difference here is it made it to screen. It is in the episode. That is what the writer was implying.
@@robert_bbiii actually, the writer of THIS episode, Terrance Dicks. DID NOT.
@@sabalomglitz6478 “DID NOT” 🤣 calm down, you’re making yourself look like an absolute tool.
Went in to the comments to see what was exhausting and surprise surprise another anti chibnal bully getting his wick off 😂
So many random Dr Who crewmembers became the Doctor in this story lol
And one who wasn't (Christopher Baker was working on other BBC shows).
The Chibnall crap rewrite 40 years later is still bad fanfic. IMHO
IMHO is not a fact, let’s remember that 👍🏻
@@tokublwhovian oh, but in 2022 an opinion is fact. The Leftists, The leftist Media, and The Woke made it so. Their opinions are facts. So, I guess you don't have your facts straight. ;)
@@sabalomglitz6478 Not here for politics 🤓 bigot
@@sabalomglitz6478 sigh
There it is.THE HATE. Explain how anything I have said here is bigoted. Go on. I can't wait for this....waiting.
Are u you going to do Wednesday reactions ?