Installing new Hatbor Freight engine on Troy Bilt Tiller
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- Опубликовано: 17 сен 2024
- this is a continuation of the video of the blown TroyBilt tiller , this is a 6.5 HP where the old one was an 8 HP:, he said he thinks this will do fine, and I think it will be too. the old one was worn out before it blew up.
Hi, my name is ben & I grew up on a 1948 8N Ford row crop tractor that my Grandfather was awarded for his part in the lawsuit between Ford and Ferguson over the tractor hydraulic system. It came right off the proving ground in Dearborn Michigan as an experimental unit just befor the 8N was offered to the public. With that nostalgic tractor I grew up in the Detroit, Michigan area suburbs back during the 1960's. It was very rural back then, and though there were farms, by my time most of the farmers were leaving farm life for more money working in job shops close to the city of Detroit. As the farms became subdivided housing people began to just throw out lawn mowers that broke, smoked or wouldn't start well. I collected every lawnmower people put out at the street for the junk man. I had so many torn apart in my Dad's garage one time, an Uncle once said " Ben, you have more little engines than Carter has little Liver Pills." The reason was simple: NO MONEY. I had to pick thru many engines to get enough pieces to get one going. I have such appreciation for the old flathead Briggs, Clinton, Wisconsin, Tecumseh and I lived close enough to Lansing Michigan that I even had a REO, A Ransom Eli Olds, lawnmower, the inventor of Oldsmobile. That REO was my first successful rehabilitation of a pile of parts and broken pieces and I used it to mow grass for my very first real weekly paying job. Key words I'd like to express today are Reliability, Robustness, Strong, Well built/ Overbuilt and Rebuildable. The Cheap Chinese crap that I see nowadays is built by slave labor, and they are so cheap and easy to purchase there is no good reason to rebuild one. As long as the CCP suppresses their citizens to hold the price down, paying slave wages, and our shipping industry delivering things from clear around the World so cheaply it's hard to make a case for rehabbing a failed predator. Just buy a new one. The only problem I see is the CCP is doing what Lee Iacocca once called "ugly mercantilism at it's worst," when he came back from a trip to Japan after taking over Chrysler. That was when President George W. puked on the Prime Minister of Japan Kiichi Miyazawa in January of 1992. (google it) The Japs were only allowing one Jeep dealership per Prefecture (province or state) and they limited them to only sell 1 jeep per month per dealership. The Communist Chinese Party plans to undercut costs of any other manufacturer in the world and take over the entire market world wide. AND IT'S NOT STOPPING WITH SMALL ENGINES! They have asperations to take over the planet in general. I have purchased plenty of Harbor Freight myself, so I am guilty, but once I learned this truth, I have stopped. I was buying everything from from them even if I didn't have an immediate use for it, just to have it because it was so cheap. BUT, I HAVE SEEN THE LIGHT. I was supporting a Communist government who has plans to take over the world. A Communist government who have killed over 120 million people since 1949. I took a look at the life and wages of Chinese Lau Beijing (middle class) and decided I'm not taking part in that success. I'd rather have an old worn out Briggs flat head than a brand new OHV predator, and I own one. It's still in the box because when I realized what I was doing, I couldn't bring myself to put it on my Bolens Rototiller where a 4hp Briggs flathead resides. OK, I've said my piece, please fact check me by googling things like "chinese killing fields" or "the ccp's 100 year plan to take over the world." Then decide if you like the way Biden has been "building back better." It's not for me. ben/ michigan
so many famous brands have started importing everything because of cheap prices, ,just another way ruining our country.
I just bought a TroyBilt Horse from the late '80's that the owner had just put a new HF 6.5 Predator engine on it. He said he used it this past spring one time and decided to retire and move into the city. This machine is a beast and the 6.5 engine didn't diminish its tilling ability a bit. Some of those old motors had difficult carburetors to deal with. I love it! Thanks for the post.
I really like those engines, they are very much like the honda,, they guy came to pick it up an it about drug him over the front of his trailer, he told me" that motor has plenty of power,, lol
Glad I found your video. Just picked up an old Ariens Rocket VII and Troy Bilt Horse last week. I finally got the pins for raising/lowering the engine unseized today. I think I'll try removing only one and swinging the housing to the side. Right now I'm having a hard time trying to remove the engine mounting bolts behind the flywheel. If I can get the engine to swing to the side and get the pulley off I'll be in good shape! Thanks for posting!
good luck, those old ones can be a bear but they are a strong machine.
Happened back upon this after reading it a few years ago, I rebuilt my late FIL's 1974 Horse with the 6 hp Tecumseh, which had thrown a rod around 20 years before. It was completely worn out, axle, all seals, needed to be replaced, and motor.
I replaced the motor with the HF 6.5 hp Predator and it works very well, just have to disconnect low oil switch as it cuts the engine out when you are tilling deep.
To compensate for the lighter eight of the engine, I took the plastic gas tank, filled it with pea gravel and mounted it under the motor. Gives it a nice balance.
Very happy so far with the rebuild!
as usual a great video. Nice to see repairs to the older models and keeping them out in the field instead of the scrap heap. Well done.
a lot of the time the older machines are built stronger than newer ones,, thanks for commenting.
My Troy Bilt Horse 3 has an 8hp Kohler from a Horse 4. So, it's already non-stock The carburetor, battery, starter, ignition switch, ignition, in addition to wiring all have issues. They add unnecessary complexity and reliability risk. This HF swap looks like a great solution. Just the parts to fix any two of the existing problems is more than the cost of the HF conversion. Strongly moving in that direction. Thanks for your video!
the guy that I swapped the engines, told me this hf one had more power than his old B&S 8 HP.
Dad did an 11 horsepower Predator on a Troybilt Horse tiller. It did fit inside the protective cage, but the engine is a little heavier than the original Briggs, so the the back end only needs a nudge to tip the front down. I use it now, and the engine just loafs along, even after putting new tines on it and tilling deep heavy soil.
on this one I did,, I put a 6.5 hp engine on where it had an 8 hp b&s and this one has as much power as the original and is almost a direct replacement.
I put one of those Predator Harbor Freight motors on a rear tine tiller. I’m not Dale Earnhardt but I’ve been impressed with the motor so far.
I've had good luck with every one I have used.
Thank you for the video. Great info on the output shaft sizing difference saved me a trip back to swap engines.
This was a nice project, great to see it works, well done
that engine fit right on with very minimal alteration
I've heard a lot of good things about those Harbor Freight engines.
I have bought and resold several and never had a bad one.
MissouriOldTimer Did you lose reverse when you installed this engine. Thanks
Those predators sure are good engines and priced right too.
yes, with a coupon they are 99 dollars but naturally this wasn't on sale so it was 119 still not bad at all.
I also live in Missouri and have had my 6.5 HP on my Troy built tiller for 15 years now just one tip is use only non-ethanol fuel
yes, that corn squeezins is not good for much of anything other than the corn growers,
Just finished putting the 6.5 preditor on, and I saved a lot of time by just removing the 4 engine mounting bolts, and the pulley bolt that screws into the crank. Then I took a chisel and put it between the pulley, and the housing. Motor came right off. It was a little tight putting the 4 engine bolts back in, but saved a LOT of extra work.
sounds like a good idea.
how did you line up the bolts on new engine after inserting drive shaft with belt on pulley, I am having a difficult time getting bolts started
Those Older original Troybilts made by Troybilts are good tillers. My father had one of those Models like that one called The Horse. That little one you previously worked on is the Pony. On Dad's, it had an old Kohler engine that had shaft seal issues. Troybilts changed it out with a new Briggs. On the Kohler, the crank wasn't machined correctly so they swapped it out. TB had got a bad batch of Kohler's so they switched over to Briggs. They are not the nicest to work on, but are good tillers.
yes you are right the little one was a pony and this big one is a horse,, once you have worked on them some it becomes easier I am glad he elected to go with a new engine on this, it was much cheaper than any other way .
The Electric Start unit is possibly a "Big Red" and not a Horse. Same thing, but the the Horse has no front bumper or battery.
@Maddog worker You might try to grab a serial or model number off some part and look it up. Last time I looked, their website walked you through identifying old stuff to some degree, but maybe even google searching the location of the model/serial would help. The other is the width of the wheels and back tines area I believe is slightly different for some models.
@@uruiamnot I know this is old but if someone needs the reference. You could get a horse with a bumper and electric start. I have one. 1981 model.
Good work sir. 👍🏼👍🏼
Mine is over 40 years old . Always been in shed . Engine strong ,but I have to rebuild carburetor .
yeah this new type of gas really messes them up .
I started getting into the old Troy Bilt Horse models, ended up with 4 of them, and every one of them had a lack of power problem (the original tired engines were too wimpy too pull the big Horse Tillers without bogging down when I'd run the tines down deep, no matter how much I tinkered with them). There was several 7hp tecumseh and (1) 8hp cast iron kohler industrial.
I'd rebuild the carbs and service the breaker points. I used to work many years ago as a pro small engine mechanic, and on those very same engines... They were ALL too tired from low compression to pull strong enough on those big old Horse Models tillers. Instead of trying to bore and re-ring them and grind valves and seats I simply replaced the old units with Harbor Freight Predator Engines (212cc horizontal shaft engines that have the shaft and mounting bolt patterns identical to the original old engines!!). These "Honda Clone" (Chinese copies of Honda engines that have parts interchangeable with Honda' engines) can be bought new for $99.-$119. from Harbor Freight. I have found them to be really powerful, good running, and durable engines that pull my Troy Bilt Horse Tillers strongly without bogging down!!
Be sure to fit new (industrial grade v-belt drive belts from NAPA auto parts) when re-powering, as these Predators have enough juice to just shred the old marginal belts.
I can't say anything bad about the 6 1/2 HF engines, this one I put on the Troybilt had a lot more power than the original 8 HP b&s.
I put a honda GX 200 on mine , that motor is awesome 👍
Good job. That looks like exactly for my late 80’s pony model. 👍🏻
In case you missed it.... The bolts are 5/16-24 x 2"
That's the bolt for the crankshaft?
Great job, that will make them a nice tiller
yes,, it about got away from him loading it on the trailer, so he said it has plenty of power, lol ..
I have a HF small engine and so far running good three years.
they are good, and they are cheap too, I have one on my pressure washer and it's at least 6 years old , probably older.
The best thing I learned from this video, was to chop the back off my office chair and put it in my shop! Heck ya!!
I'm glad you learned something.
@@MissouriOldTimer Ive got 3 rolly office chairs just taking up space. And my little scootin stool in the shop has several stripped wheels. So this does help. Gonna make me some more stools. :)
@@Just1Spark I'm lucky if I get a year out of an office chair, maybe I should but over load springs on them.. lol
Especially since my carcass is getting larger than the standard skinny-person shop stool.
Great job! It will last a lot of seasons.
I'm sure there have been some bad ones but I have never seen a bad one, I have had one in use on first my tiller than on my pressure washer, it's several years old and still going strong.
I talk to myself when I am working as well. Talking to Yourself While You Work Can actually Boost Your Cognitive Ability. Those harbor freight engines aren't bad at all! I thought about buying me a vintage Horse and installing one of these Predator engines on it. You never know, though. You might be able to rebuild the old Troy Bilt engine.
we had thought bout rebuilding it, but after figuring all the costs, buying the HF for 99.00 was much cheaper.
I'm going to start telling my coworkers about the cognitive benefits I gain by talking to myself...lol.
Man, I’m always asking myself questions when I’m working. It helps me keep my train of thought. CRS is rough on this old feller👨🏼🌾
Just put one in my 1982 Troy Bilt. Have no complaints. Just change 3\8" to 5 \16" bolt for pulley.
yes, I like them very much, I have put them on a few other machines too.
MissouriOldTimer Hi - I have the 15yr old "Bronco" model Troy Bolt tiller would Predator 212 bolt up? Thank You for any help & making the video...jack
the one I did for a fella here had the 8hp b&s and it fit right up. my suggestion would be to measure the crankshaft , diameter and length and the bolt pattern around the crankshaft , and it that is the same I would say it would work fine. If I am not mistaken I think they have started using sae threads in the mounting holes for the machine to mount to the engine.
MissouriOldTimer Thanks for the Info. & getting back to me - Gonna get one & give it a whirl - Might have to get another pulley but think I can make it work - Thanks again...
I think it will be fine, it's a good chance the pulley will fit too. good luck.
You MUST be a good mechanic you are always talking to yourself. I was told that that is a good thing. Good fix.
The Shade Tree Fix-it Man right. I do that from time to time
I'm the only one that will listen to me.. lol
The Shade Tree Fix-it Man you didn't unsubscribed from me did we? I been behind on watching your videos
North east Ohio farmer I haven't seen one from you in a few days you are on my subscriber list and I always get a notice when you put a video up.. don't know what's going on.
The Shade Tree Fix-it Man I know what the issue is, and I'll do a video on it for you
if you mean those two big ones that hold the engine to the frame, you have to take the two locking bolts out and use penetrating oil and a hammer, maybe even heat according to how tightly stuck and rusted they are, ,but they will come out.
@TheGreatMilenko the one I put on the troybilt was the HF 6.5 hp and it has plenty of power, it had a B&S 8 HP originally.
How did you take the pins out that were holding it up
what size bolt for the crankshaft pulley?
He im 15 and your right these tillers are a pain to work on ive rebuild that thing twice and its just awfull. The engine ignition finaly quit all the way and the coul went bad. A new coil is 50 bux so ive just saved up 100 to buy the preditor engine.
I think you'll like the HF engine, they are not bad at all.
Pretty nice tiller. I uploaded a new video video yesterday
My 1982 troy bilt Horse has a bad 8 hp Tecumseh engine. What size output shaft do I need for a harbor freight replacement engine? (6.5 hp or 8 hp). Your video is very helpful.
the best thing is to measure your old one and then go to harbor freight and measure one of theirs,, I am pretty sure that you can use the 6.5, in my case, their 8 HP had to big of a shaft and the 6.5 was right, and it has plenty of power to run the horse just fine.
great job buddy
thanks, yeah it pretty much just bolted right up, I did have to shim the pulley out around 3/8 of an inch.
@@MissouriOldTimer What did you use ti shim it out? I am trying to line up the Pullly on my very old troybilt horse they need shims just not sure what to use?
@@robertwieditz1 I really don't remember what I used but just use a piece of cut off pipe or washers but they can't make contact with the seal area or it will be ruined, like me,, I just have to look around till I find something that works. lol good luck with your project,I think you will be happy with that engne.
@@MissouriOldTimer Thank you for you help; I used one Very Large thick washer (bushing) 3/4 inch inside Diameter about 2 inch Outside so as to shield the seal area and then another large 3/4 inch ID over that; the pulleys lined up fine they were pretty thick the guy at the hardware store got them out of the flat bushing box you know the ones placed so high on the shelf you think your going to spill them out on the floor when you try to slide the box out, about 1/16 inch thick i think; also now the reverse wheel is also in line
@@robertwieditz1 I think you'll be happy with that engine, they are well made.
Que bueno, de donde eres
Missouri, USA
@@MissouriOldTimer ok, saludos de España
Watched a few of these installs. So I guess, that since none of them mention the throttle being hooked back up to the handle, the engine is not compatible with this feature. And I guess the battery start mechanism is also not hooked back up or used.
you can hook up the throttle but it's really not necessary, just set the engine speed and go with it,, I think you can buy an electric start kit but that's about as much as the engine, but these engines start on the first pull every time as long as you use the choke, hot or cold.
I did the same thing now my belt is a little too long
People watching His video has some basis knowledge of what's going on.i personally thought it was a good video.
thank you very much.
What did you do for the throttle cable? This machine had a throttle at the back of the machine.
take the original off and use the one that is built onto the engine.
Cool
any body have ANY idea of how to pull the 2 large swivel rods that hold the engine on to the transmission? i have tried everything to pull those to large 8" rods, and they are NOT coming out. I am out of ideas. I beat on it, tried a gear puller, a jack.. and nothing is making them budge. I did pull the locking bolts that hold them in place and sprayed several ounces of WD 40. Please help.
since you have taken the locking bolts out, there can only be rust holding the pins, can you get a pipe wrench or vise grips on them and try to turn them a bit?
@@MissouriOldTimer I put a full can of wd40 and today I was finally able to knock out the bolts. Thanks very much for your help and video.
How does the engine mount come off the tiller do u have to heat the pins
I didn't heat them, there is a lot of dirt, dust and debris collected around them I really soaked them with pb blaster and then pounded them out,, you don't want to get to wild doing that but just go slow and they should start moving.
@@MissouriOldTimer thanks for the reply I got one out and sprayed the other down
I want to do this too
the 6.5 bolts right up, I had to shim the pulley out about 3/8 of an inch other wise it fit right up
What was the reason for needing the spacers when attaching the new engine?
did you mean when I mentioned the spacers at 7:16 ? if so those are factory kind of shims/spacers so the bolts don't ware directly on the frame assembly, if you meant between the engine and the clutch assembly, I can't really remember but if so then it would have to been to make up a slight difference in the alignment . I hope this helps.
MissouriOldTimer thank you for the prompt response. I think I have it figured it out.
can you tell me how to take those long pins out at the beggining of the video???
there is a bolt with a lock nut ,on each pin they go into a depression in the pin, take that out and the pins might be in there pretty tight, so you might have to user some penetrating oil and carefully drive them out, that is what the entire engine carriage slides up and down on, remember to line the depressions up in the pins when you replace the lock bolts.
it need it some hard banging after taking those bolts out....thanks a million, really apreciated your help greettings from Mexico
you are very welcome, yeah, they have years of dirt and maybe rust, so they can be very hard to remove.
Anyone remember what bolts to mount the engine? I heard their metric?
No, I don't think so, the original mount bolts will work, but the shaft bolt on the end is, I think metric, or different than the OEM at least.
What’s the name of that flexible socket drive extension
I got them at Harbor Freight the catalog number is Item #67065 I think they were 8.99 or right close to it.
MissouriOldTimer thanks very much
you are welcome , they are very handy at times
MissouriOldTimer as a old fire Chief I am a firm believer to learn from others. It always pays to learn new tricks and techniques
When you installed this engine did you lose reverse.
no, it worked just like the old B&S that was on there.
MissouriOldTimer I put a Honda gx200 on mine. It’s the same as the harbor freight engine. Maybe I’m over looking something.
@@backspace4093 it's been a while but this engine hooked up exactly like the old B&S, I think this one had a fiber kind of thing that when the engine went down it rested on that and made the machine go backwards.
MissouriOldTimer Both of mine have the rubber reverse disc. One is a 86 model the other one is a 84. Bought both for $250 a piece. One was running and operates good. The other one I never could get the Briggs to run right. So it’s in a small engine shop a friend owns. I got two of the hiller plows that came with them. Looked at the newer Troy built horses. They look cheap and flimsy and I passed on them. Put out a wanted add and got plenty of hits. Most were Junk and wanted to much for them. I hear a lot of good things about the harbor freight engines.
Can you tell me what size the motor pulley is. Thanks.
it's been a while so my memory is not the greatest but I think I used the stock pulley.
The motor pulley is special. It has 2 pulleys of different diameters to run the machine at 4 different speeds. It also has a reverse pulley connected to it. You should copy down your exact model number and go to the Troy-Bilt website and see your service diagrams or chat with them. It's about a $90 part.
the 6.5 engine that I replaced the 8 hp with has the same sized crankshaft,if yours is different then we don't have the same kind of engine. I did not have to get a different pulley.
When I got the tiller it came from a scrapper going down the road. It did not have a engine on it so I did not get the stock pulley. Thanks for the help, I might just put the three inch pulley in the lathe and turn it down until it works right.
you can check but I think the shaft is 5/8" so you can find a pulley that will fit the engine the problem would be you probably wouldn't have reverse.
How can anyone refer this as a great video? This video for some reason I guess the heat, starts out with the new engine bolted up, old engine not even in the picture. Not a very good video at all if you are like me waiting for his engine to be delivered, and looking to find out steps to do it. Can't understand why anyone would start a video in the middle, of a project, and others say what a great video.
well, since you don't have a single video, you should have plenty of time to instruct everyone else how they should do it.. lol by the way, I can't understand how anyone could subscribe to someone that hasn't any videos to watch.