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Are you sure you’re not just longing to feel something even though the world is dark and bleak, but you know there’s beauty out there hidden behind all the clouds?
"It's lost all it's connection to the hardcore scene" - is the nail on the head. Metalcore used to have an unhinged quality to the music, which is completely lost in modern metalcore.
yeah like i hear people talk about how much they like Architects and stuff and I really jsut cant seem to get it. it's just so boring to me same with motionless in white and all that sort of sound. some good ones ive picked up on though are bands like thrown, Blood Youth, Mugshot, Paleface and others that stick a bit closer to hard core.
@@Fleatotry the first 2 albums from them if you want traditional chaotic metal core. Next few albums they found themselves. Then Tom their guitarist died and every album after that has been generic djent shit and nothing good at all haha.
@@Fleato This comment is 3 months ago but in the uk there's an uprising of 90'-2000's style metalcore that i think you should check out. Killing me softly, Long goodbye, cauldron, Durendal and eternal rest. If you have spotify, the compilation from The coming strife is so solid too, light of the final dawn it's called. Happy listening!
Another thing that really hurts modern metalcore, in my opinion, is the current way that metal is mixed/mastered. Using the same guitar tones, same plastic drum sound, lack of low end, and especially everything being quantized and edited completely sucks the life out of these bands. 2000s metalcore wasn't particularly raw, but it at least had some breathing room and character. Even if a band has a unique sound now, the sterile production usually just hides it anyway
This a great point - makes all these bands blend together and sound the same, and then none of them actually stand out or sound interesting individually. For bands that don't follow this trend, like a Knocked Loose, I think it makes it even easier for them to stand out and gain mass appeal, cause it's so refreshing. The current mixing/mastering doesn't hold a candle to the sounds of the early 00s, like you said
@memiano440 thank you, and I'm so glad you used Knocked Loose as a positive example, because their sound is so refreshing. The mood, the aggression, and the identity are all there. As some others have said, bands like Dying Wish and Boundaries are thankfully carrying that torch, too. Maybe we'll see a bit of a shift over the next couple years
I think the mastering is fine. Imo the biggest issue is all of the bands try to play it safe and think far too highly of themselves and refuse to look or sound "uncool"
Killswitch always kills it live ive seen them at knotfest n got to see slipknot also..killswitch sounded better but slipknot had the better Pyro n stage set up but kse will go down as one of the goat..alive or just breathing..fucking gives me a boner everytime
Agreed, I had the bonus DVD on the albums (As Daylight Dies) and my god. I was 12/13 and it gave me such insight into how adults could still be wacky and fun, just how friendships could operate. Wasnt all srs bsnss.
Imagine my shock when my fucking band is shown in the “modern metalcore” section of this video. I’m not sure whether to be flattered or upset for a couple of reasons. My band is called Grieve, and the clip in front of the light wall at 11:40 and 12:35 is from our video “Empty Like Me.” I appreciate that you found us, I don’t appreciate that in the midst of talking about how bands have no connection to the hardcore scene you pull a clip of a music video filmed and edited by our guitarist, who also mixed and mastered all the music that we’ve put out in the last 3 years, which we self published with no label support, paid for with money we made from selling merch we designed ourselves. DIY is the heart of what we do, our message about mental health is clear, and “I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with that” is no excuse for using our image to push a message about what’s wrong with metalcore without so much as a credit for the clip you ripped from RUclips in the description. If you wanna go after bands as examples of what’s wrong with metalcore, either do some extra digging before making an example of a band with less than 10k views on the video you’re using, or pick a band who’s actually guilty of losing what you claim the genre has lost. I’ve been watching your videos for a long time and seeing you punch down like this without so much as a courtesy of mentioning to us that you used our video is massively disappointing, especially considering you’re stacking us against pillars of the hardcore community like Black Flag and Minor Threat. I don’t really care whether you find our music appealing, or if you connect with our message, or if you think I’m full of shit, but if you’re going to gatekeep, don’t front about how you’re not gatekeeping so people don’t complain when you’re pulling your clips from small local artists who put their blood, sweat, and tears into creating something. You don’t fuckin know us.
O7 Funnily enough, it's because he didn't credit you, that I'm finding out about the band Not justifying it, but not crediting your band lead to the striessand effect, mentioning the lack of a credit has led me to find your band. Loving what you guys have on offer!
Thank you for pointing out your band because I thoroughly enjoyed that. Keep doing what you do and don't take this one guys opinion too to heart. You guys rule and your hard work and dedication will pay off.
I would argue that there are types of breakdowns. Maybe they did come form hardcore, but Slayer's "Raining Blood," Pantera's "Domination," and Sepultura's "Dead Embryonic Cells" has breakdowns as well. Due to them all coming from thrash, it may still technically be true that breakdowns are a punk/hardcore element these songs featured.
breakdowns are a metal thing yeah, people who think breakdowns come from hardcore are just confused, hardcore is a punk variation chugging riffs are a metal characteristic that can be traced back to NWOBHM
@@idkanymore9869 the actual chugging riff is still a metal thing that hardcore punk bands were obviously not doing, they have an entirely different instrumentation basis it's more that hardcore influenced metal bands to be more aggressive and stripped down rather than focusing on technicality and solos (which is just going back to metal roots where it was more simplistic and centered drawing out chords and heaviness)
Yeah but all of the guys in those bands loved hardcore It’s not like the guys in Slayer got breakdowns from Iron Maiden, Black Sabbath or Mercyful Fate or whatever
To be completely honest, I am almost 35 and I still love metalcore to this day. This combined with numetal was what brought me into metal in the first place and even though if I’m not into numetal anymore, I regularly enjoy metalcore quite often, and I don’t get the fuss about thehating
Everytime I go to a punk/hardcore/metalcore festival and watch a metalcore band I vaguely heard of I always think 'every song sounds the same from every band I saw today"
Modern metalcore is good when it’s Knocked Loose, Foreign Hands, CANDY, Speed, and NOT bands like Bad Omens, I Prevail, Wage War, etc. I refuse to call those bands metalcore
Metalcore metaphorically was just an energetic spastic kid who grew up. Started out as a wild child who was bouncing off the walls, then started to get more complex emotions and had a weird emo phase, but now is more rounded off in the corners. Has a kid, a wife and a mortgage. Still reminisces his youth but wants something easier to consume as an adult
Agree! That was a nice touch! Would love to see the brand archetypes come back in another video about more genres or brands, or mixed with tier lists or compasses
Really fascinating, something that's been on my mind but I don't have the business background to really explain it. Loved this bit and the whole video.
bro i love metalcore im a certified metalcore enjoyer if metalcore has 100 fans im one of them if metalcore has 1 fan its me if metalcore has 0 fans im dead
@@CheapSushi Holy fuck Dying wish, I just listened to 3-4 music and that is definitely how I remember liking Metalcore, this band is amazing! Even tho I don't enjoy music as when I was a teen I will keep on eye on the band. Wasn't too keen on Balmora but Dying wish is def my vibe.
@@Alowne217 glad you liked them! they're awesome live too! try Forgiveness is Waiting at the Bottom of the Well by Since My Beloved or Acephale by xNomadx
Modern metalcore is to classic metalcore what hair metal was to thrash. Classic metalcore were a bunch of metal dudes who would sing sometimes. Now it's a bunch of instagram models who can scream sometimes.
Yesssss!! I agree 100%! The last few years of "metalcore" should be renamed to nu-metalcore. So many of these newer bands do not even have blast beats or 2step rhythms. It's all a heavier style of Linkin Park, Limp Bizkit, Breaking Benjamin, Disturbed, Korn, etc.
New bands to listen to if you miss classic metalcore: - Sanction - Vatican - Balmora - Dying Wish - Foreign hands - Cross of Dissbelief - See No Evil There's a pretty big revival around this stuff happening with zoomers. There's even a band in my town called XAblazeX that sound just like Walls of Jerico.
Every Punk Rock MBA video: Finn: **Goes over the history, gives a few opinions, makes us laugh and makes it clear that gatekeeping is lame** Comment section: *ultimate gatekeeping*
Yeah because these videos are made to make people react (ex: all the clickbait titles and hot takes). That's his business model. He just also pretends to be morally superior.
>says gatekeeping is lame >goes ahead and gatekeeps It's like when films draw attention to genre tropes and then just go ahead and use the genre tropes
Finn, why don’t people talk about Rise Against? I love them and think they have a very very solid 4 album run. Would love if you did a dedicated vid on them
I found them out through Give it All in Need For Speed and they've been the only band I've consistently listened to for the past almost 20 years. And I'd call myself more of a metalhead, but RA is still my favorite band.
First time I heard them was Paper Wings in Burnout 3: Takedown, but I'd almost forgotten about them til I played Saviour on Guitar Hero World Tour and looked them up to hear more of their stuff.
I know it was a joke, but recent Invent Animate album is legit "try not to cry challange" Most of good Bring me the horizon was "Linkin Park choruses" but with 2005 metalcore riffs and nobody was crying about it.
As long as Bands I like don't get tagged MetalCore.. I'm good.. I remember when I heard the tag... As I Lay Dying were always great Live, Unearth, Himsa, From Autumn to Ashes, etc.. But must of the band's shown by This Kook... Are those .. Wannabe scene Kids bands, the one's we called ScreamO.. Cheers from Southern California... Listen to whatever you want.. Support the Bands..
One of my favorite stories my brother ever told me is when he was in the same parking lot that Tim Lambesis was in when he was arrested for trying to hire a hit man to kill his wife. Great band tho 👍
@@Eirik36 Metalcore is a genre that has always been evolving, I don't understand how that's a bad thing. All rock in general has changed so much since it began. I will say that some of these bands are totally not metalcore at all though. Sleep token, bad omens, bmth, none of them are metalcore at this point. C-gate from japan is my favorite modern metalcore band, but they don't have a lot of music yet
Man that Chimaira Pure Hatred clip was a blast from the past. I remember seeing them live in '09ish with Lacuna Coil, Killswitch Engage, and Disturbed. Great show.
Saw them on the Pure Hatred tour with Soilwork, Bleeding Through and As I Lay Dying. Man, those were the days. AILD opened that show. I feel old now. 😅
Definitely one of the best videos you’ve made in a while. Felt more authentic, like your older content. Appreciated the insights based on your personal experiences and the marketing analysis.
Started listening to Metal in 1977 so I've seen all evolutions. Music is interrupted differently by all as it’s meant to. Watch the Architects "Black Hole" video and tell me you don’t “Headbang.” Nothing wrong with Metalcore these days...
As i lay dying: an ocean between us. Is and always will be peak metalcore to me, albumn came out when i was 10 and it was the first thing that got me into metal
Agreed, now I don't know what they're trying to do. I didn't like Burden and the other song released a few days ago. Don't really like when they use such high notes in chorus. Which they did A LOT in Awakened I didn't liked any album since then. An Ocean Between Us was absolutely perfect for Metalcore.
I got into metalcore or NWOAHM in college when Killswitch Engage, Lamb of God, God forbid, Shadows Fall... etc were just coming out. I remember really being into the whole Trustkill, Victory Records roster too. I was getting into Hardcore and Metalcore at the same time and it was this cool new thing to me because I was a nu metal kid in highschool so the sounds were more extreme and it felt less gimmicky. Like a lot of other people, KsE will always be the GOAT band for me. I got into them when Jesse was the singer, but Howard is my personal favorite vocalist for that band. I don't really know who's who nowadays in metalcore, but I still will jam the classics.
Sir. You literally just described my thoughts exactly. I started in late 90s with some mid-90s In Flames, but every band you mentioned 1st cd gets played in my rotation at least once a week.
Man, same here! Especially, discovering all the compilation cds had a hot topic for around $5. Discovered alot of bands through that route since noone knew in school listened to metal. Here in utah, it made you a "satan worshipper" 😆 Agree with you 100% on killswitch and every other project those guys have done.
@@jaredbabilis3768 Yep! I discovered a bunch of new bands when I worked at hot topic because they always had music playing and the complication CDs. It was some good times back then! Geez, a Satan worshiper 😂.
17:55 Bro blames every negative aspect of today's metalcore on metal because he's a hardcore guy. Nah man, metalcore is no longer metal. They've become kitties. Unearth, Killswitch, Heaven Shall Burn, As I Lay Dying, I Killed the Prom Queen, early Parkway.. those were real metalcore bands with actual metal influences. Today's metalcore sounds completely different. Nothing in common
I don't agree. There are lots of great up-and-coming " revival core ' bands. Boundaries. Wristmeetrazor, Serration, Foreign Hands, Mouth For War, A Dozen Black Roses , Seeyouspacecowboy etc.
@@Gatesofgehennax tallah mixes subgenres tbh, i think the good/interesting bands these days are just doing whatever they want without a defining genre lol there's a lot of good music out there
Killswitch is always gonna be the best for me. This makes me think how sick it is whenever Jesse and Howard appear on tracks together. Jesse bringing the hardcore sound and Howard bringing the operatic Dio sound. And of course Adam D the genius with the antics. The perfect blend that gives me so much emotional response in their sound and I don’t get bored of it like a lot of these newer bands sounding the same
New old school metalcore bands that are actually hardcore: Adrienne, Since My Beloved, Balmora, Withpaperwings, A Mourning Star, Killing Me Softly, Azshara, Deadset, Unbrokenapologies, Razel Get Her Wings, Your Spirit Dies, Foreign Hands, A Dozen Black Roses, Simulakra, Cauldron, xclocktowerx, xServitudex, xelegyx, serration, Dying Wish, Wristmeetrazor, Seeyouspacecowboy(older stuff), memento, buriedbutstillbreathing, Serenity, Long.Way.Down.,
Ephyra records has been releasing nothing but fire. People overlooking this comment don’t understand how insane all these bands are and the scenes around them. The real deal and its insane to witness 😊
Listen to Dying Wish, Boundries, Foreign Hands, wristmeetsrazor, and Great American Ghost. Old school metalcore is still going strong, you just have to dig
I've always been more of a thrasher / traditional metal guy, but some of my favorite albums of all time are metalcore albums. Waking the Fallen, the Fall of Ideals etc. In the 80s, Thrash bands combined Agent Orange and Sex Pistols with Accept, Venom, and Judas Priest ...and it was sick. In the 00s, Metalcore bands combined all the Hardcore bands you mentioned and Melodeath and Groove Metal ...and it was sick.
I met Matt from Hatebreed when he was playing in a bar in New York.(Mid state near CT, Matt was their guitarist back in the 90's) And he was such a chill guy. We sat and bullshit(ed) for 2 hours after his set. Such a nice guy..
Yep same here, and I prefer the more modern stuff mostly. The beatdown style from the late 2000's isnt for me, I like the more metal leaning symphonic dark shit.
Some metalcore sways towards emo/screamo, other bands are more metal & polished like ‘as I lay dying’. I tend to enjoy the hardcore aspect. The dirty, messy & heavy sides of the genre. Things you would hear from one of the heavier underoath or Norma Jean songs. The guitars aren’t as polished but it has the metal spirit, leaning toward the heavy raw tones of hardcore.
I always associated it (probably incorrectly) with emo and scene kids. So for years when I heard this stuff I would automatically dislike it. I enjoy punk/hardcore and all sorts of metal so you would think this would be my jam. Maybe I just haven't heard the right bands.
All these genres names throw me 🤣🤣 but I know…. I started at Alexisonfire so I guess phc? to metal, scremo, emo, some metal, I freaking fell in love with breaking Benjamin, mastodon, Pearl Jam… I guess I’m all over the place.
I'd say the truest combination of metal sounds and hardcore/punk ethic tend to be bands like Svalbard who combine black metal sounds with crust influence and have hardcore based lyrics or the bands resurrecting the old euro Metalcore style (edge metal) like Contention.
Already being into skatepunk, metal and hardcore at the time, I got introduced to MetalCore first listening to the Opposite of December album from Poison the Well which I loved, also listening to bands like Morning Again and Arkangel when in the mood. Personally for me the hardcore band Comeback Kid has the perfect blend of hardcore with strong skatepunk and metalcore influences, they're still going strong making albums that match the first one, holding on to the hardcore roots with songs to scream and sing along to with a lot of energy and great progressions and composition. Their liveshows just breathe that energy and vibe that never gets old and is amazing to be apart of.
Fellow old heads! Listen to **Boundaries**! These young men are playing some metalcore that harkens back to the music we grew up with. The folks in Dying Wish are also playing that old school style of metalcore and deserve your attention. I wanted to find new bands to explore instead of just listening to as I lay dying, kSe, IKTPQ, or old parkway and so far these two are the best
I so fully agree with this. The only connection to "core" in the genre now is breakdowns. Everything else is kind of Extreme Metal Lite™ with melodic, clean sung choruses. And most of the time, those choruses are just wedged in because that's the blueprint for metalcore songs, not because they actually fit the song. I know there are exceptions and current metalcore bands still creating great music, but overall it's been overcome with mediocrity and paint-by-numbers songwriting
@@CheapSushi I guess we're just ignoring where I said I know there are exceptions, and metalcore bands still making great music? I get that. But those bands are the exception, not the rule
As a new englander I’ve always been a fan of the fact that we have our own genre of heavy music that though we didn’t entirely create is very heavily associated with us
We should call “Popcore” at all these bands with cheesy choruses, nice looking guys playing in a white background scenario. They relate nothing to OG Metalcore scene
They also ruined prog metal too. I have no issue with them directly, they're clearly talented. But they pioneered that "djent with weedly-weedly riffs that constantly use the whole fretboard, mixed with pop" sound is basically everywhere now
@@pAWNproductionsDE What you just described with the "djent with weedly-weedly riffs that constantly use the whole fretboard, mixed with pop" isn't really djent, but Swancore which relates back to Dance Gavin Dance because it's named after their highly influential guitarist Will Swan. If you want a bigger problem with Djent and Metalcore, it's the lazy integration of Shoegaze, particularly the band Deftones, influence.
Careerism turns everything into a product and to sell a product you make it as safe as possible. I'm not particularly interested in safe music, but to each their own.
Old guy who hasn't enjoyed anything since the 90s tells you why everything made post 90s sucks. That sums up this entire channel idk why we need hundreds of videos
@@Meeces55 That's not true at all, Finn does enjoy things made post 90s... In fact that golden age of Metalcore of his, headed by Killswitch Engaged are very much early 2000s metal not 90s. In fact Finn actually dislikes a lot of the classics(pre 90s) like Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, Black Sabbath, etc.
modern metalcore is too fucking clean, like democratisation of music tech has done amazing stuff for alternative music but modern metal core is too many of the same dsp patches and productions techniques trying to infuse shuggah type technicality into a genre inherently foreign to it, instead of chasing individual sound and identity their all chasing hegemony
I love these historical musical takes. They are honest without putting anything down. And it makes sense. Metalcore bands seem to just want to sound like metalcore bands.
Thank you Finn for talking about Warped Tour and "No Rockstar Mentality" I really missed this era and the fun crabcore scene kids, you can really tell this was the last efforts of mono-culture and sense of community 🎶
Maybe I'm just getting old but I can't say any of the new metalcore bands make me go "I need to listen to these guys" not in a bad way, they just don't make me feel anything. Bad Omens is probably an exception and even then I still haven't listened to their new stuff yet. Contrast that with new bands I love who are doing either whatever they want (Darko US) or majorly influenced by nu metal (Dropout Kings, Hacktivist)
If a genre becomes commercial it looses it's authenticity. They probably have the same management, record company, graphical artists etc. All the same and little real emotion.
Honestly though I think this is ultimately a good thing for heavy music that metalcore keeps evolving and changing with each generation that changes it based on their own influences that's why it's been around for about 20 years now so far right sure they lost a lot of the hardcore aspects of the first gen but the fact that the genre even still exists longevity and innovation in other genres in the metal scene. I love thrash and I really was into that thrash Revival that happened in the early 2010s but honestly it sounded the same as old thrash there wasn't really any new ideas going on to keep the genre fresh. I think that's okay for some genres I think some genres rely on a certain familiarity and that they can't really do too much to change the sound or else it becomes something else but the fact that metal core is always been kind of the younger Generations genre it makes so much sense that it will change based on the influences of each generation that comes into it
It's like everything where evolution occurs, the longer it goes on the more it evolves away from its roots and becomes more watered down. As metalcore has been around so long, the bands aren't influenced by the same music as in earlier days.
Throwdown's album Haymaker is is such a great early 00's Metal core album with the perfect blend of hardcore and metal. Putting that it on now. Thanks Finn.
I also love their albums Vendetta, Venom & Tears, and Deathless as well. They perfectly incorporate some structure and melody into the brutal assault at just the right moments.
@@AJbassist bands still doing that 2000s metalcore sound that I love are Boundaries, Dying Wish, Her Last Sigh and War of Ages, for example. But I think there are some amazing bands doing different stuff and they are not radio friendly at all, check out Allt, I love this band
Burn the Priest’s self-titled 1999 album is one of my favorite albums and examples of how metalcore used to derive from having hardcore and punk influence. Great video by the way.
On the west coast it never had any singing in it. Metal core was metal with hardcore not hardcord and singing. We called that crapcore or post hardcore and that was after MTV got a hold of it
Haha for real. I'm tired of metalcore now but it was extremely fun going to shows when this whole thing exploded. I graduated in 06 and went to Ozzfest every summer through high school, and went to metal shows throughout the northeast and some hardcore shows in my home state (CT)
I really didn’t like the bands that went in that metal boy band aesthetic. Basically the ones with that hair cut, you know the one I’m talking about haha. Their music didn’t resonate with me.
I feel like this genre became a thing and evolved at the same time as my love for hardcore and metal. I'm 39. When I was 17/18 I started getting into metal and hardcore. There was nothing I wouldn't explore. I branched out from NuMetal and discovered hardcore, melodic death, thrash all of a sudden, it was like a sensory overload. Then KSE appeared. It was like the perfect blend of everything I loved. Having started with Earth Crisis, Stampin Ground and Madball, I fell in love with Hatebreed who dropped Perseverance only a few months after I discovered the band. At the same time I'd fallen in love with At The Gates, Soilwork, Bodom and In Flames (and Dimmu Borgir) whilst all the while listening to bands like Merauder. I was checking out Machine Head and Pantera and at the and time everything was suddenly evolving. And then BOOM, the NWOAHM & NWOBHM started, then metalcore was born and KSE released AOJB. For me it was the perfect blend of everything I loved. It had the heaviness of metal, the aggression and groove of hardcore and the melodies of MDM and melodic thrash. To me it was and is perfect. But now...this newer idea of metalcore to me is totally disconnected. Where are all the band that sound like Bullet, like KSE and God Forbid, like AILD? This new metalcore movement isn't hardcore x metal. It's 2000s era post-hardcore / screaming turned ultra heavy. It's not the same thing but it's still called metalcore. And everyone sounds the same. Bands do intentionally sound just like every other band. It's very sad. Sometimes you can hear the talent but I shake my head during songs thinking this would be such a good moment for a melodic riff...like where the hell have guitar leads and dual harmonies gone? Where are the breakdowns that make you want to jump around going mad which are actually catchy? Breakdowns in modern metalcore almost seem borrowed from deathcore rather than hardcore and that in itself is so far removed from hardcore breakdowns already. I am yearning for bands who loved hardcore and MDM to make metalcore. I'm tired of every band sounding like a slightly heavier The Devil Wears Prada with a girly chorus. I miss bands like The Sorrow. Nato. Early All That Remains and Unearth. Roadrunner Records had the metalcore scene covered for so long but then moved away from it. The 'Andy Sneap' sound with Arch Enemy/ATG x Hatebreed bands. Modern metalcore bands sound safe, conformist and devoid of songwriting and melodic ability. Bring back lead guitars, dual harmonies, gallops, chugs and catchy midpaced breakdowns!
Its what happens to any genre of music when it gets mainstream popularity. You get a bunch of generic copycats riding the coattails of all the more talented and original bands that came before them. It most notably happened to nu-metal in the early/mid 00s. There were just so many derivative sounding bands that were just trying to cash in on nu-metals popularity that it oversaturated the market and many nu-metal fans moved on to, coincidentally, metalcore. Metalcore became popular right when nu-metal was dying and the genres were just similar enough many nu-metal fans made the jump to metalcore because metalcore was the new, popular trend to latch onto. I was a freshman in high school in 2005 and by that time, every metal kid in school was listening to metalcore. KSE, BFMV, and ATR was all they listened to. Especially The Poison, that was huge in my school when it came out because it was just as appealing to the girls because it was significantly more emo than other metalcore bands and that was the other big genre taking over in that time. I can't even listen to most modern metal anymore. Nobody is taking any risk, everything sounds like a derivative of each other and the most mainstream bands of the genre are just trend-hoppers. Metal is more akin to pop music than metal these days, more about the production rather than the music itself. Instead of establishing their own original sound, they're just copying a sound that came before them, there's no originality anymore in the mainstream sector and you have to dig way beneath the surface to find anything fresh and interesting. I suppose this is what happens when you get older, you just lose faith in new music and you revert back to the stuff you listened to back in high school and college and thats essentially where I'm at. 90% of the music I listen to these days is 20+ years old.
I have an unconditional loyalty to As I Lay Dying (despite Tim's issue) for it was one of the first bands that got me into metal. Darkest Hour, Evergreen Terrace and A7X were some others. I'm glad to say I still listen to them and am going to see them live again this week. The good 'ol days of metalcore...
What’s happening with modern Metalcore bands is the same thing that happened with post-grunge bands. both Grunge & early Metalcore took inspiration from punk & metal, Post-Grunge on the other hand wasn’t influenced by that, they where influenced by the first wave of grunge bands
I agree with just about everything here. I got into punk when I was bout 8 when the first Tony Hawk game came out. So for the most part, that sort of era and style of punk is really where a lot of my interest lies. I listened to a little bit of hardcore, but over all it never interested me too much. But I did get into metalcore. And it was great. I listened to it through probably mid to late 200s, and then just started falling out of love with the bands. However, funnily enough, I actually got more into metal, and probably listen to that more than I do punk now, and I still dont care for metalcore. It sounds like its something I should have followed, but I just did. And I think it comes down to a lot of the things you mentioned on here. Like the bands all sound the same. Eventually someone will try to do something new and interesting, and even possibly create what could be a subgenre for metalcore... And then 500 other bands will come out and do the same exact thing. I also see this a lot in deathcore. Lorna Shore gained a lot of fame with their And I Return To Nothingness EP, particularly with the ending of To the Hellfire. And it was a great song. One of the first deatchore albums I listened to in some time and really enjoyed. Then a bunch of bands just copied that, and made that every single song. I think metalcore also does essentialy what you said and plays it safe. It feels less like a genre that most people really want to play, and more so that its still close enough to being rougher metal, but still sort of having a lighter tone that it sells. Its a safe, introduction to metal. Which in itself is fine. Yet when so many bands do it, and none of them try to do anything with it and they all blend together, then it kind of just makes the safe feeling stand out even more. Ironically, them all sounding the same and trying to blend in possibly hurts some of them. It just becomes over saturated. If I dont feel the need to go find as many bands as possible because theres not much variety, then eventually I am just not. And when all 500 of those clones are all clamoring for our attention, it will eventually mean some bands are just not gonna gain any attention. In some ways, thats fine. Some people just want to make music. If anything, going back to hardcore, I think many bands would prefer it to stay that way. But with metalcore, they clearly are trying to make a name for themselves. Hence the rock star attitude. But if they just sound bland and generic, then they likely wont gain a following. I dont know. Over all I just feel like its a pretty soulless genres. Im not gonna gatekeep and say people shouldnt listen to it. After all, I love grindcore and black metal, and to an extent they do have the same issue of bands sounding the same at times. But at least with a lot of it I feel like the bands are playing what they truly want to play. I just dont personally get the appeal most of the time.
I hate how UnderOath gets tossed in the same bag as Linkin Park.....Linkin Park is almost the 'edgy' or 'alt' version of butt-rock... but have you listened to the first 3 albums from UnderOath? Act of Depression, Cries of the Past, maybe up through The Changing of Times? That shit was very heavy... almost even moreso deathcore than anything else. I don't know what happened after those first few albums and the direction they went, (Probably the departure of Dallas Taylor, replaced by Spencer whoever he is). But Dallas Underoath is the underoath I know and love, and the music they made during those formative years 99' - 03', is iconic. Modern Metalcore does suck, I think you're right... save from a few bands here and there, like Knocked Loose, or SpiritBox, which one could argue are not even metalcore.
I think you made a good point a while back that when nerds get into things, they ruin them. Metalcore is filled with nerds and dorks making the music and it’s overly clinical and formulaic Edit: I disagree that this is what the fans want. I think that’s why Knocked Loose has gained a lot of traction lately, because they bring the hardcore influence back into it. Or maybe Drain with their thrashy hardcore riffs (speaking of, a video on crossover thrash would be cool)
Bit crazy video... Gatekeeping for 18:30 min straight although saying its not, saying metallyrics have no meaning (ufff never read a Song?) but HC has (which it has, only thing I agree) and then 45 secs of "hey, its cool for everyone, everyone can listen to what they want" (well said) and then: "If you like good music with meaning in the lyrics you like the old stuff, if you just wanna hear sound and give a f*** about lyrics, you listen to the new stuff..." Thats hard man. Music, every genre, is evolving, and even Taylor Swift has something to say in her lyrics, same as Michael Jackson and the Beatles. And her you are and say, hey, every metalband ist saying nothing...ufff. you try to relativate that, but then you don't... yeah, I still like my teeny-bands too, but when they evolve, its in most of the cases good for music in general...but your sitting there and just deny that... Its sad, sounds you did not evolve, although you say you liked the evolution from HC to MC in the beginning... It sounds like somewhere you stopped beeing open for evolution and new stuff... "New" music hast good lyrics too :/
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
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As a Nu-Metal kid growing up who are these bands?
Mixed of both. BMTH innovates and mixes. They sometime get the right amount and level of screams in their songs
How many miles did you run this week Finn. Your looking a little pale 😢
MattressCore!
How do you feel about the amity affliction?
I'm so tired of drowning in the undertow, with my back against the wall, because the voices in my head are watching the world burn
maybe you need to wake up cuz that sounds like a spiritual awakening
Are you sure you’re not just longing to feel something even though the world is dark and bleak, but you know there’s beauty out there hidden behind all the clouds?
@@blaxie i’m so tired trying to drown my demons yet failing to reach closure. Seriously, we need a new-gen metalcore lyric generator 🤣
❤
And I need someone to save me because I am my own worst enemy and I'm falling into the black hole inside my head
Early Killswitch, Parkway and Everytime I Die was a fun time to be alive
They were fresh and authentic then
But very early... First Parkway Drive Album & EP, First 2 Killswitch Engage Albums and first 2 Every Time I Die Albums! Hot Damn!!!🎉
Early every time I die is mathcore
@@atvenadefinitely free-bird-core
Its sad how BAD Parkway is now lmao
15:17 "They write the same lyrics about being caught in the undertow or whatever"
I bursted out laughing 😂
TOOL catching strays.
It's so true tho
Numb by linkin park
@@RyanREAXI was totally thinking Tool. I'm a huge fan of LP idk how I didn't realize how fitting of a joke that was hahahah
was just gonna write that as well. :D
"It's lost all it's connection to the hardcore scene" - is the nail on the head. Metalcore used to have an unhinged quality to the music, which is completely lost in modern metalcore.
yeah like i hear people talk about how much they like Architects and stuff and I really jsut cant seem to get it. it's just so boring to me
same with motionless in white and all that sort of sound. some good ones ive picked up on though are bands like thrown, Blood Youth, Mugshot, Paleface and others that stick a bit closer to hard core.
@@Fleatotry the first 2 albums from them if you want traditional chaotic metal core. Next few albums they found themselves. Then Tom their guitarist died and every album after that has been generic djent shit and nothing good at all haha.
@@Fleato That's why Dying Wish's Album was so satisfying to my ears, it has that "dirty" older sound
@@Fleato This comment is 3 months ago but in the uk there's an uprising of 90'-2000's style metalcore that i think you should check out. Killing me softly, Long goodbye, cauldron, Durendal and eternal rest. If you have spotify, the compilation from The coming strife is so solid too, light of the final dawn it's called. Happy listening!
A metalcore band that has never lost its way and has stayed creative and inspired… August burns red.
Another thing that really hurts modern metalcore, in my opinion, is the current way that metal is mixed/mastered. Using the same guitar tones, same plastic drum sound, lack of low end, and especially everything being quantized and edited completely sucks the life out of these bands. 2000s metalcore wasn't particularly raw, but it at least had some breathing room and character. Even if a band has a unique sound now, the sterile production usually just hides it anyway
This a great point - makes all these bands blend together and sound the same, and then none of them actually stand out or sound interesting individually. For bands that don't follow this trend, like a Knocked Loose, I think it makes it even easier for them to stand out and gain mass appeal, cause it's so refreshing. The current mixing/mastering doesn't hold a candle to the sounds of the early 00s, like you said
@memiano440 thank you, and I'm so glad you used Knocked Loose as a positive example, because their sound is so refreshing. The mood, the aggression, and the identity are all there. As some others have said, bands like Dying Wish and Boundaries are thankfully carrying that torch, too. Maybe we'll see a bit of a shift over the next couple years
Three people are guilty of this: Andy Sneap, Adam Dutkiewicz and Kurt Ballou
100%
I think the mastering is fine. Imo the biggest issue is all of the bands try to play it safe and think far too highly of themselves and refuse to look or sound "uncool"
When he said “metalcore now feels like music by guitarists for guitarists” I felt that 😅
You know its sad but true. PLUS: Melodies are often not existent
He's definitely onto something there
@@jorabe8488 when the melo death riffs went away so did I. Don't like today's hipster djentcore
It's always the problem when single-instrument nerds enter the scene instead of all-around musicians who also care about art and expression.
As a guitarist myself, I don't have a problem with this. 🤓
Adam D, and Joey Sturgis are truly the 2000's 2010's metalcore heroes
The new KSE album better be good or im done with core
Killswitch always kills it live ive seen them at knotfest n got to see slipknot also..killswitch sounded better but slipknot had the better Pyro n stage set up but kse will go down as one of the goat..alive or just breathing..fucking gives me a boner everytime
@@RyanREAXThey haven't made a bad album since the 2nd self titled imo.
funfact - Adam Dutkiewicz has music education in one of the best music school in the world - Berklee College
Agreed, I had the bonus DVD on the albums (As Daylight Dies) and my god. I was 12/13 and it gave me such insight into how adults could still be wacky and fun, just how friendships could operate. Wasnt all srs bsnss.
Imagine my shock when my fucking band is shown in the “modern metalcore” section of this video. I’m not sure whether to be flattered or upset for a couple of reasons.
My band is called Grieve, and the clip in front of the light wall at 11:40 and 12:35 is from our video “Empty Like Me.”
I appreciate that you found us, I don’t appreciate that in the midst of talking about how bands have no connection to the hardcore scene you pull a clip of a music video filmed and edited by our guitarist, who also mixed and mastered all the music that we’ve put out in the last 3 years, which we self published with no label support, paid for with money we made from selling merch we designed ourselves. DIY is the heart of what we do, our message about mental health is clear, and “I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with that” is no excuse for using our image to push a message about what’s wrong with metalcore without so much as a credit for the clip you ripped from RUclips in the description.
If you wanna go after bands as examples of what’s wrong with metalcore, either do some extra digging before making an example of a band with less than 10k views on the video you’re using, or pick a band who’s actually guilty of losing what you claim the genre has lost. I’ve been watching your videos for a long time and seeing you punch down like this without so much as a courtesy of mentioning to us that you used our video is massively disappointing, especially considering you’re stacking us against pillars of the hardcore community like Black Flag and Minor Threat.
I don’t really care whether you find our music appealing, or if you connect with our message, or if you think I’m full of shit, but if you’re going to gatekeep, don’t front about how you’re not gatekeeping so people don’t complain when you’re pulling your clips from small local artists who put their blood, sweat, and tears into creating something. You don’t fuckin know us.
Hello I'm the Punk Rock MBA. I remember it so you don't have to.
That sucks man. Keep doing what you're doing. Will check out your band after this now to show some support
O7
Funnily enough, it's because he didn't credit you, that I'm finding out about the band
Not justifying it, but not crediting your band lead to the striessand effect, mentioning the lack of a credit has led me to find your band. Loving what you guys have on offer!
Thank you for pointing out your band because I thoroughly enjoyed that. Keep doing what you do and don't take this one guys opinion too to heart. You guys rule and your hard work and dedication will pay off.
Gonna go listen to that song now THANKS
I would argue that there are types of breakdowns. Maybe they did come form hardcore, but Slayer's "Raining Blood," Pantera's "Domination," and Sepultura's "Dead Embryonic Cells" has breakdowns as well. Due to them all coming from thrash, it may still technically be true that breakdowns are a punk/hardcore element these songs featured.
breakdowns are a metal thing yeah, people who think breakdowns come from hardcore are just confused, hardcore is a punk variation
chugging riffs are a metal characteristic that can be traced back to NWOBHM
Who do you think inspired a lot of those bands? Hardcore played ah big part in early thrash n groove metal
@@idkanymore9869 the actual chugging riff is still a metal thing that hardcore punk bands were obviously not doing, they have an entirely different instrumentation basis
it's more that hardcore influenced metal bands to be more aggressive and stripped down rather than focusing on technicality and solos (which is just going back to metal roots where it was more simplistic and centered drawing out chords and heaviness)
Yeah but all of the guys in those bands loved hardcore
It’s not like the guys in Slayer got breakdowns from Iron Maiden, Black Sabbath or Mercyful Fate or whatever
Bad brains wrote supertouch in 79 and that's definitely the earliest breakdown I could think of
Hardcore/Metal fan takes:
2000: Nu-Metal sucks
2010: Deathcore sucks
2020: Metalcore sucks
Nu-Metal truly sucks though...
@@Onomere I kindly disagree sir
@@Onomereblasphemy
For sure all those huge numetal bands suck lol…
@@Onomereyou’re sooo cool and such a real metalhead! You did it!
To be completely honest, I am almost 35 and I still love metalcore to this day. This combined with numetal was what brought me into metal in the first place and even though if I’m not into numetal anymore, I regularly enjoy metalcore quite often, and I don’t get the fuss about thehating
Everytime I go to a punk/hardcore/metalcore festival and watch a metalcore band I vaguely heard of I always think 'every song sounds the same from every band I saw today"
Funny, thats how I felt about metalcore in the early 10s. Genericore days. I think theres a lot more variance these days if you really look for it
Modern metalcore is good when it’s Knocked Loose, Foreign Hands, CANDY, Speed, and NOT bands like Bad Omens, I Prevail, Wage War, etc. I refuse to call those bands metalcore
What would you call them?
@@20frogForeign hands,Candy,Speed definitely not modern metal core. More hardcore than metalcore
Metalcore metaphorically was just an energetic spastic kid who grew up. Started out as a wild child who was bouncing off the walls, then started to get more complex emotions and had a weird emo phase, but now is more rounded off in the corners. Has a kid, a wife and a mortgage. Still reminisces his youth but wants something easier to consume as an adult
Love that you brought brand archetypes in this. Really makes the channel live up to it's name
Agree! That was a nice touch! Would love to see the brand archetypes come back in another video about more genres or brands, or mixed with tier lists or compasses
For sure more of this please!
Really fascinating, something that's been on my mind but I don't have the business background to really explain it. Loved this bit and the whole video.
bro i love metalcore
im a certified metalcore enjoyer
if metalcore has 100 fans im one of them
if metalcore has 1 fan its me
if metalcore has 0 fans im dead
we're 2 !
We’re 3!!!
We're 4
we are 5
stay away from my children
I don't know anything about today's bands, but I will always love Killswitch & As I Lay Dying.
check out Dying Wish and Balmora
Dying wish is an amazing metalcore band. @@CheapSushi
@@CheapSushi Holy fuck Dying wish, I just listened to 3-4 music and that is definitely how I remember liking Metalcore, this band is amazing!
Even tho I don't enjoy music as when I was a teen I will keep on eye on the band.
Wasn't too keen on Balmora but Dying wish is def my vibe.
@@Alowne217 glad you liked them! they're awesome live too! try Forgiveness is Waiting at the Bottom of the Well by Since My Beloved or Acephale by xNomadx
@@CheapSushipooosers
Modern metalcore is to classic metalcore what hair metal was to thrash. Classic metalcore were a bunch of metal dudes who would sing sometimes. Now it's a bunch of instagram models who can scream sometimes.
Finally, so nice to see someone else also say this haha
Except that hair metal musicians were actually worlds ahead of thrash musicians in terms of musicianship and writing.
Yesssss!! I agree 100%! The last few years of "metalcore" should be renamed to nu-metalcore. So many of these newer bands do not even have blast beats or 2step rhythms.
It's all a heavier style of Linkin Park, Limp Bizkit, Breaking Benjamin, Disturbed, Korn, etc.
No wonder I like new metalcore so much!
New bands to listen to if you miss classic metalcore:
- Sanction
- Vatican
- Balmora
- Dying Wish
- Foreign hands
- Cross of Dissbelief
- See No Evil
There's a pretty big revival around this stuff happening with zoomers. There's even a band in my town called XAblazeX that sound just like Walls of Jerico.
boundaries as well.
Foreign hands rock so much I didn’t even think of calling them metal core haha
Balmora is based af
Since My Beloved, xNomadx, xDeliverancex
Boundaries too
Good to see Chimaira in this. Great band that flew under the radar compared to their peers.
Agree. Used to be among my top favorites. I wish their later efforts didn’t fall off so much.
Finn saying what I've been thinking for the last 10 years. When he's right, he's right.
i mean, if you liked the songs at 11:50 and 13:08, check us out
Respect to UNFD even if a lot of the music isn't my thing!
He did my band Grieve dirty too, but we didn’t even get the courtesy of a credit in the description🤷🏼♂️
I liked it = )
Every Punk Rock MBA video:
Finn: **Goes over the history, gives a few opinions, makes us laugh and makes it clear that gatekeeping is lame**
Comment section: *ultimate gatekeeping*
Without fail
The most accurate fact I've seen in this channel 😅
Nearly every fanbase ever, unfortunately.
Yeah because these videos are made to make people react (ex: all the clickbait titles and hot takes).
That's his business model. He just also pretends to be morally superior.
>says gatekeeping is lame
>goes ahead and gatekeeps
It's like when films draw attention to genre tropes and then just go ahead and use the genre tropes
Finn, why don’t people talk about Rise Against? I love them and think they have a very very solid 4 album run. Would love if you did a dedicated vid on them
I first discovered Rise Against from a Tony Hawk game growing up and am so glad I did! Holy cow!
I found them out through Give it All in Need For Speed and they've been the only band I've consistently listened to for the past almost 20 years. And I'd call myself more of a metalhead, but RA is still my favorite band.
First time I heard them was Paper Wings in Burnout 3: Takedown, but I'd almost forgotten about them til I played Saviour on Guitar Hero World Tour and looked them up to hear more of their stuff.
I heard them on Adult Swim 13 years ago.
Saw Rise Against recently with Blink. Was a great night.
"Massugah with Linkin Park choruses." I've never heard it put any better. Modern Metalcore bores me to tears
I know it was a joke, but recent Invent Animate album is legit "try not to cry challange"
Most of good Bring me the horizon was "Linkin Park choruses" but with 2005 metalcore riffs and nobody was crying about it.
I dig that shit. Guess my subjective tastes are bad 😂
That start, stop breakdown style....I caught it pretty quick lol
MORE CIRCLE PITS
then make something interesting
That sounds sick af
The revival of As I Lay Dying and All That Remains is F'n sick, just gotta make that clear rn. 🤘
New ATR is kinda boring though, in my opinion.
As long as Bands I like don't get tagged MetalCore.. I'm good..
I remember when I heard the tag...
As I Lay Dying were always great Live, Unearth, Himsa, From Autumn to Ashes, etc..
But must of the band's shown by This Kook...
Are those .. Wannabe scene Kids bands, the one's we called ScreamO..
Cheers from Southern California...
Listen to whatever you want.. Support the Bands..
@@Joosei’d say it’s cuz everyone left again. Through Fire was just amazing
@@Joose They peaked too early. I think The Fall Of Ideals was their pinnacle.
One of my favorite stories my brother ever told me is when he was in the same parking lot that Tim Lambesis was in when he was arrested for trying to hire a hit man to kill his wife. Great band tho 👍
That's what I love about Hanabie so much, they have that hardcore element and it has a very strong presence in their music, ESPECIALLY live.
Haha I spit out my coffee when he said “caught in the undertow “🤣🤣🤣
Metalcore has become a simulacra. A copy of a copy of a copy.
@@terminaldeity literally all music has. Metal didn't just invent itself
Ironically, Simulakra are a really good newer band doing a much more authentic take on metalcore than most.
I don’t understand how you can call modern metalcore “metalcore”. It’s just so drastically different from where it was in the ‘06 era
@@Eirik36 Metalcore is a genre that has always been evolving, I don't understand how that's a bad thing. All rock in general has changed so much since it began. I will say that some of these bands are totally not metalcore at all though. Sleep token, bad omens, bmth, none of them are metalcore at this point. C-gate from japan is my favorite modern metalcore band, but they don't have a lot of music yet
@@Eirik36 It's pretty much just heavy pop now.
Man that Chimaira Pure Hatred clip was a blast from the past. I remember seeing them live in '09ish with Lacuna Coil, Killswitch Engage, and Disturbed. Great show.
Saw them on the Pure Hatred tour with Soilwork, Bleeding Through and As I Lay Dying. Man, those were the days. AILD opened that show. I feel old now. 😅
Idc what anyone says, meshuggah was doing metalcore breakdowns in the early 90's 👀
Definitely one of the best videos you’ve made in a while. Felt more authentic, like your older content. Appreciated the insights based on your personal experiences and the marketing analysis.
Started listening to Metal in 1977 so I've seen all evolutions. Music is interrupted differently by all as it’s meant to. Watch the Architects "Black Hole" video and tell me you don’t “Headbang.” Nothing wrong with Metalcore these days...
As i lay dying: an ocean between us. Is and always will be peak metalcore to me, albumn came out when i was 10 and it was the first thing that got me into metal
An Ocean Between Us is such a good album bro. It also helped me get into that type of metal early on. That and Ascendancy by Trivium
Shadows Are Security, An Ocean Between Us and The Powerless Rise were all GOATED
@@DoctorPerc The Powerless Rise is fantastic.
@@DoctorPerc Powerless Rise is my absoulte favourite. I love how they put in some deathcore vibes, but in a balanced way.
Agreed, now I don't know what they're trying to do. I didn't like Burden and the other song released a few days ago. Don't really like when they use such high notes in chorus. Which they did A LOT in Awakened I didn't liked any album since then. An Ocean Between Us was absolutely perfect for Metalcore.
I got into metalcore or NWOAHM in college when Killswitch Engage, Lamb of God, God forbid, Shadows Fall... etc were just coming out. I remember really being into the whole Trustkill, Victory Records roster too. I was getting into Hardcore and Metalcore at the same time and it was this cool new thing to me because I was a nu metal kid in highschool so the sounds were more extreme and it felt less gimmicky. Like a lot of other people, KsE will always be the GOAT band for me. I got into them when Jesse was the singer, but Howard is my personal favorite vocalist for that band. I don't really know who's who nowadays in metalcore, but I still will jam the classics.
Sir. You literally just described my thoughts exactly.
I started in late 90s with some mid-90s In Flames, but every band you mentioned 1st cd gets played in my rotation at least once a week.
Man, same here! Especially, discovering all the compilation cds had a hot topic for around $5. Discovered alot of bands through that route since noone knew in school listened to metal. Here in utah, it made you a "satan worshipper" 😆
Agree with you 100% on killswitch and every other project those guys have done.
@@jbanne001 Killswitch stollen their sound from Carcass "Heartwork"
@@jaredbabilis3768 Yep! I discovered a bunch of new bands when I worked at hot topic because they always had music playing and the complication CDs. It was some good times back then! Geez, a Satan worshiper 😂.
@@FELTSZ Lamb of God stole their sound from At the Gates, who cares?
16:55 I'm definitely gonna be that guy and point out that's 43% Burnt, not Destro's Secret.
Someone had to say it. Even Finn know it.
Thank you for your service.
I noticed this too as soon as the song started
We need more drop C and drop D 6 string guitar bands to keep it alive, Ill even allow drop B.
Who cares?
17:55 Bro blames every negative aspect of today's metalcore on metal because he's a hardcore guy. Nah man, metalcore is no longer metal. They've become kitties. Unearth, Killswitch, Heaven Shall Burn, As I Lay Dying, I Killed the Prom Queen, early Parkway.. those were real metalcore bands with actual metal influences. Today's metalcore sounds completely different. Nothing in common
I don't agree. There are lots of great up-and-coming " revival core ' bands. Boundaries. Wristmeetrazor, Serration, Foreign Hands, Mouth For War, A Dozen Black Roses , Seeyouspacecowboy etc.
Tallah!
@@harrypottah8889 that's a nu-metal as i recall
@@Gatesofgehennax tallah mixes subgenres tbh, i think the good/interesting bands these days are just doing whatever they want without a defining genre lol there's a lot of good music out there
That’s a good list right there. Been cranking Boundaries and Mouth For War lately
unfortunately see you space cowboy has gone some sort of odd pop punk direction
Killswitch is always gonna be the best for me. This makes me think how sick it is whenever Jesse and Howard appear on tracks together. Jesse bringing the hardcore sound and Howard bringing the operatic Dio sound. And of course Adam D the genius with the antics. The perfect blend that gives me so much emotional response in their sound and I don’t get bored of it like a lot of these newer bands sounding the same
Howard sounds nothing like Dio lol.
@@TheSyl63 BOth are Dramatic Tenors
New old school metalcore bands that are actually hardcore: Adrienne, Since My Beloved, Balmora, Withpaperwings, A Mourning Star, Killing Me Softly, Azshara, Deadset, Unbrokenapologies, Razel Get Her Wings, Your Spirit Dies, Foreign Hands, A Dozen Black Roses, Simulakra, Cauldron, xclocktowerx, xServitudex, xelegyx, serration, Dying Wish, Wristmeetrazor, Seeyouspacecowboy(older stuff), memento, buriedbutstillbreathing, Serenity, Long.Way.Down.,
Ephyra records has been releasing nothing but fire. People overlooking this comment don’t understand how insane all these bands are and the scenes around them. The real deal and its insane to witness 😊
@@spongeybob100 Daze & Ephyra style forever. RIP Since My Beloved and Adrienne.
killswitch engage is the only metalcore band that still carries the torch imo
Man I love Cauldron. Great vid! May pickup my guitar and play around some catchy riffs after this
Listen to Dying Wish, Boundries, Foreign Hands, wristmeetsrazor, and Great American Ghost. Old school metalcore is still going strong, you just have to dig
Mic drop. Orthodox, Chamber, Mouth For War to name a few more 🔥🔥
I wouldn’t even say you have to dig, Boundaries is getting heavily pushed by Spotify. And they deserve all the praise they get!
If you have to dig, then it's not going strong
He knows that. But he will never admit that knocked loose is playing metalcore
if you like foreign hands check out Greyhaven too, it's a bit more post-hardcore/metal but without the post-hardcore cringe
I've always been more of a thrasher / traditional metal guy, but some of my favorite albums of all time are metalcore albums. Waking the Fallen, the Fall of Ideals etc.
In the 80s, Thrash bands combined Agent Orange and Sex Pistols with Accept, Venom, and Judas Priest ...and it was sick.
In the 00s, Metalcore bands combined all the Hardcore bands you mentioned and Melodeath and Groove Metal ...and it was sick.
Dying Wish is one of the most recent metalcore bands that give you the 2010's metalcore vibes and feels. Theyre great.
I met Matt from Hatebreed when he was playing in a bar in New York.(Mid state near CT, Matt was their guitarist back in the 90's) And he was such a chill guy. We sat and bullshit(ed) for 2 hours after his set. Such a nice guy..
I'm blown away by the total omission of Darkest Hour as pioneers of the genre.
Well they're not lol
I transitioned from Metalcore to a Deathcore enjoyer.ƪ(˘⌣˘)ʃ
this happened to me too
I believe it slowly happens that way for some! Then progress to slam@@onatkd533
there's a core focused deathcore revival too going on right now, especially the bands in the Florida scene
Yep same here, and I prefer the more modern stuff mostly. The beatdown style from the late 2000's isnt for me, I like the more metal leaning symphonic dark shit.
I've always liked both.
Some metalcore sways towards emo/screamo, other bands are more metal & polished like ‘as I lay dying’. I tend to enjoy the hardcore aspect. The dirty, messy & heavy sides of the genre. Things you would hear from one of the heavier underoath or Norma Jean songs. The guitars aren’t as polished but it has the metal spirit, leaning toward the heavy raw tones of hardcore.
I always associated it (probably incorrectly) with emo and scene kids. So for years when I heard this stuff I would automatically dislike it. I enjoy punk/hardcore and all sorts of metal so you would think this would be my jam. Maybe I just haven't heard the right bands.
@@joshabreu1156scene kids were hardcore punks, brother.
Source: was a scene hardcore punk
MySpace metalcore was 100% borderline post-hardcore
All these genres names throw me 🤣🤣 but I know….
I started at Alexisonfire so I guess phc? to metal, scremo, emo, some metal, I freaking fell in love with breaking Benjamin, mastodon, Pearl Jam… I guess I’m all over the place.
Give me Trustkill and Ferret all day long.
Ferret! Whuutt yess
@@tonytoofast + Eulogy records
Edison was incredibly overlooked.
I'd say the truest combination of metal sounds and hardcore/punk ethic tend to be bands like Svalbard who combine black metal sounds with crust influence and have hardcore based lyrics or the bands resurrecting the old euro Metalcore style (edge metal) like Contention.
Already being into skatepunk, metal and hardcore at the time, I got introduced to MetalCore first listening to the Opposite of December album from Poison the Well which I loved, also listening to bands like Morning Again and Arkangel when in the mood. Personally for me the hardcore band Comeback Kid has the perfect blend of hardcore with strong skatepunk and metalcore influences, they're still going strong making albums that match the first one, holding on to the hardcore roots with songs to scream and sing along to with a lot of energy and great progressions and composition. Their liveshows just breathe that energy and vibe that never gets old and is amazing to be apart of.
Fellow old heads! Listen to **Boundaries**! These young men are playing some metalcore that harkens back to the music we grew up with. The folks in Dying Wish are also playing that old school style of metalcore and deserve your attention. I wanted to find new bands to explore instead of just listening to as I lay dying, kSe, IKTPQ, or old parkway and so far these two are the best
THIS
I so fully agree with this. The only connection to "core" in the genre now is breakdowns. Everything else is kind of Extreme Metal Lite™ with melodic, clean sung choruses. And most of the time, those choruses are just wedged in because that's the blueprint for metalcore songs, not because they actually fit the song. I know there are exceptions and current metalcore bands still creating great music, but overall it's been overcome with mediocrity and paint-by-numbers songwriting
@@CheapSushi I guess we're just ignoring where I said I know there are exceptions, and metalcore bands still making great music? I get that. But those bands are the exception, not the rule
As a new englander I’ve always been a fan of the fact that we have our own genre of heavy music that though we didn’t entirely create is very heavily associated with us
So dope, I'm from NH and saw so many of the bands at local schools around 2000 to 2004. Saw Unearth at Dover NH highschool.
We should call “Popcore” at all these bands with cheesy choruses, nice looking guys playing in a white background scenario. They relate nothing to OG Metalcore scene
I hear a lot of copycats in the Metalcore/Djent genre lately! But we know who the real ones are! 👊
Periphery accidentally ruined metalcore.
They just tried to make dental/prog metal more accessible to metalcore fans
who?
@@AKmumu😂
They also ruined prog metal too. I have no issue with them directly, they're clearly talented. But they pioneered that "djent with weedly-weedly riffs that constantly use the whole fretboard, mixed with pop" sound is basically everywhere now
@@pAWNproductionsDE What you just described with the "djent with weedly-weedly riffs that constantly use the whole fretboard, mixed with pop" isn't really djent, but Swancore which relates back to Dance Gavin Dance because it's named after their highly influential guitarist Will Swan. If you want a bigger problem with Djent and Metalcore, it's the lazy integration of Shoegaze, particularly the band Deftones, influence.
Critic: Metalcore isn't 100% perfect on anything metal core touches.
R/metalcore: emotional keyboard warrior rage
Finn conveniently blamed every negative aspect of today's metalcore on metal lol
Careerism turns everything into a product and to sell a product you make it as safe as possible. I'm not particularly interested in safe music, but to each their own.
Knocked loose proves Finn wrong also counterparts but Finn must make videos stay relevant…
'Metalcore lost the core part and became a sub-genre of metal', this line of yours sums up the entire video. Nearly 20 minutes saved.
Old guy who hasn't enjoyed anything since the 90s tells you why everything made post 90s sucks. That sums up this entire channel idk why we need hundreds of videos
@@Meeces55 That's not true at all, Finn does enjoy things made post 90s... In fact that golden age of Metalcore of his, headed by Killswitch Engaged are very much early 2000s metal not 90s. In fact Finn actually dislikes a lot of the classics(pre 90s) like Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, Black Sabbath, etc.
Modern Metalcore starter pack:
•Only Black tshirts no logos
•1 or 2 members with beards
•warehouse music videos
•BMTH is their God
Surprised about thé bmth part
@@mathias841that came out of left field
I love all core music..it all has a place in the music scene
If you listen to Invent, Animate's new stuff and think there's not much emotion in it, then you have no ears.
Using Invent Animate and Currents as a negative threw me off for sure. If anything, those 2 bands brought me back from deathcore to metalcore a bit
Invent is trash since the new singer.
@mic8040 oof I highly disagree. Heavener is a fantastic album.
he's kinda right tho, there's something really missing.
It's just boring. Finn doesn't use these words here because it's the PR MBA, but he would definitely say it on his other channel.
modern metalcore is too fucking clean, like democratisation of music tech has done amazing stuff for alternative music but modern metal core is too many of the same dsp patches and productions techniques trying to infuse shuggah type technicality into a genre inherently foreign to it, instead of chasing individual sound and identity their all chasing hegemony
I love these historical musical takes. They are honest without putting anything down. And it makes sense. Metalcore bands seem to just want to sound like metalcore bands.
If the original metalcore was the combination of metal and hardcore, then the current metalcore is the mixture of metalcore and nu metal
No it’s just a watered down derivative of djent with pop choruses haha
Na, its a mixture of pronouns and cliche laziness
Nu-djentlecore sucks ass
@@austingrothe2754 THIS.
Interesting
Thank you Finn for talking about Warped Tour and "No Rockstar Mentality"
I really missed this era and the fun crabcore scene kids, you can really tell this was the last efforts of mono-culture and sense of community 🎶
Maybe I'm just getting old but I can't say any of the new metalcore bands make me go "I need to listen to these guys" not in a bad way, they just don't make me feel anything. Bad Omens is probably an exception and even then I still haven't listened to their new stuff yet. Contrast that with new bands I love who are doing either whatever they want (Darko US) or majorly influenced by nu metal (Dropout Kings, Hacktivist)
If a genre becomes commercial it looses it's authenticity. They probably have the same management, record company, graphical artists etc. All the same and little real emotion.
Honestly though I think this is ultimately a good thing for heavy music that metalcore keeps evolving and changing with each generation that changes it based on their own influences that's why it's been around for about 20 years now so far right sure they lost a lot of the hardcore aspects of the first gen but the fact that the genre even still exists longevity and innovation in other genres in the metal scene. I love thrash and I really was into that thrash Revival that happened in the early 2010s but honestly it sounded the same as old thrash there wasn't really any new ideas going on to keep the genre fresh. I think that's okay for some genres I think some genres rely on a certain familiarity and that they can't really do too much to change the sound or else it becomes something else but the fact that metal core is always been kind of the younger Generations genre it makes so much sense that it will change based on the influences of each generation that comes into it
This could also be applied to the music industry overall its very sanitized and boring
It's like everything where evolution occurs, the longer it goes on the more it evolves away from its roots and becomes more watered down. As metalcore has been around so long, the bands aren't influenced by the same music as in earlier days.
Throwdown's album Haymaker is is such a great early 00's Metal core album with the perfect blend of hardcore and metal. Putting that it on now. Thanks Finn.
I also love their albums Vendetta, Venom & Tears, and Deathless as well. They perfectly incorporate some structure and melody into the brutal assault at just the right moments.
Why aren't more people bullying Finn? He's really sensitive
Aftershock & Killswitch Engage are the Inventors of Metalcore!!! 💯
metalcore is just BUTTROCK-influenced now and feels on the edge of radio rather then on the edge of sociality
You are not listening to metalcore then, there are lots of amazing modern metalcore bands out there
@@tomasaguiar8482 gimme some suggestion
@@AJbassist bands still doing that 2000s metalcore sound that I love are Boundaries, Dying Wish, Her Last Sigh and War of Ages, for example. But I think there are some amazing bands doing different stuff and they are not radio friendly at all, check out Allt, I love this band
Every era has these bands.
I can’t think of single metalcore band that’s butt rock influenced
Burn the Priest’s self-titled 1999 album is one of my favorite albums and examples of how metalcore used to derive from having hardcore and punk influence. Great video by the way.
On the west coast it never had any singing in it. Metal core was metal with hardcore not hardcord and singing. We called that crapcore or post hardcore and that was after MTV got a hold of it
Sometimes I love ya Finn and sometimes you drive me nuts. But I believe your take on this is spot on
omg music is evolving again it is such a problem!
Did not mention POISON THE WELL once! WTF?
So glad I grew up in this era. Graduated HS 2005 💪
Haha for real. I'm tired of metalcore now but it was extremely fun going to shows when this whole thing exploded. I graduated in 06 and went to Ozzfest every summer through high school, and went to metal shows throughout the northeast and some hardcore shows in my home state (CT)
I really didn’t like the bands that went in that metal boy band aesthetic. Basically the ones with that hair cut, you know the one I’m talking about haha. Their music didn’t resonate with me.
I feel like this genre became a thing and evolved at the same time as my love for hardcore and metal. I'm 39. When I was 17/18 I started getting into metal and hardcore. There was nothing I wouldn't explore. I branched out from NuMetal and discovered hardcore, melodic death, thrash all of a sudden, it was like a sensory overload. Then KSE appeared. It was like the perfect blend of everything I loved. Having started with Earth Crisis, Stampin Ground and Madball, I fell in love with Hatebreed who dropped Perseverance only a few months after I discovered the band. At the same time I'd fallen in love with At The Gates, Soilwork, Bodom and In Flames (and Dimmu Borgir) whilst all the while listening to bands like Merauder. I was checking out Machine Head and Pantera and at the and time everything was suddenly evolving. And then BOOM, the NWOAHM & NWOBHM started, then metalcore was born and KSE released AOJB. For me it was the perfect blend of everything I loved. It had the heaviness of metal, the aggression and groove of hardcore and the melodies of MDM and melodic thrash. To me it was and is perfect. But now...this newer idea of metalcore to me is totally disconnected. Where are all the band that sound like Bullet, like KSE and God Forbid, like AILD? This new metalcore movement isn't hardcore x metal. It's 2000s era post-hardcore / screaming turned ultra heavy. It's not the same thing but it's still called metalcore. And everyone sounds the same. Bands do intentionally sound just like every other band. It's very sad. Sometimes you can hear the talent but I shake my head during songs thinking this would be such a good moment for a melodic riff...like where the hell have guitar leads and dual harmonies gone? Where are the breakdowns that make you want to jump around going mad which are actually catchy? Breakdowns in modern metalcore almost seem borrowed from deathcore rather than hardcore and that in itself is so far removed from hardcore breakdowns already. I am yearning for bands who loved hardcore and MDM to make metalcore. I'm tired of every band sounding like a slightly heavier The Devil Wears Prada with a girly chorus. I miss bands like The Sorrow. Nato. Early All That Remains and Unearth. Roadrunner Records had the metalcore scene covered for so long but then moved away from it. The 'Andy Sneap' sound with Arch Enemy/ATG x Hatebreed bands. Modern metalcore bands sound safe, conformist and devoid of songwriting and melodic ability. Bring back lead guitars, dual harmonies, gallops, chugs and catchy midpaced breakdowns!
Its what happens to any genre of music when it gets mainstream popularity. You get a bunch of generic copycats riding the coattails of all the more talented and original bands that came before them. It most notably happened to nu-metal in the early/mid 00s. There were just so many derivative sounding bands that were just trying to cash in on nu-metals popularity that it oversaturated the market and many nu-metal fans moved on to, coincidentally, metalcore. Metalcore became popular right when nu-metal was dying and the genres were just similar enough many nu-metal fans made the jump to metalcore because metalcore was the new, popular trend to latch onto.
I was a freshman in high school in 2005 and by that time, every metal kid in school was listening to metalcore. KSE, BFMV, and ATR was all they listened to. Especially The Poison, that was huge in my school when it came out because it was just as appealing to the girls because it was significantly more emo than other metalcore bands and that was the other big genre taking over in that time.
I can't even listen to most modern metal anymore. Nobody is taking any risk, everything sounds like a derivative of each other and the most mainstream bands of the genre are just trend-hoppers. Metal is more akin to pop music than metal these days, more about the production rather than the music itself. Instead of establishing their own original sound, they're just copying a sound that came before them, there's no originality anymore in the mainstream sector and you have to dig way beneath the surface to find anything fresh and interesting.
I suppose this is what happens when you get older, you just lose faith in new music and you revert back to the stuff you listened to back in high school and college and thats essentially where I'm at. 90% of the music I listen to these days is 20+ years old.
I am one of these kids, metalcore even to this day is my metal…
I have an unconditional loyalty to As I Lay Dying (despite Tim's issue) for it was one of the first bands that got me into metal. Darkest Hour, Evergreen Terrace and A7X were some others. I'm glad to say I still listen to them and am going to see them live again this week. The good 'ol days of metalcore...
@0:10 close your mouth while you ask me questions
What’s happening with modern Metalcore bands is the same thing that happened with post-grunge bands. both Grunge & early Metalcore took inspiration from punk & metal, Post-Grunge on the other hand wasn’t influenced by that, they where influenced by the first wave of grunge bands
I agree with just about everything here. I got into punk when I was bout 8 when the first Tony Hawk game came out. So for the most part, that sort of era and style of punk is really where a lot of my interest lies. I listened to a little bit of hardcore, but over all it never interested me too much. But I did get into metalcore. And it was great. I listened to it through probably mid to late 200s, and then just started falling out of love with the bands.
However, funnily enough, I actually got more into metal, and probably listen to that more than I do punk now, and I still dont care for metalcore. It sounds like its something I should have followed, but I just did. And I think it comes down to a lot of the things you mentioned on here. Like the bands all sound the same. Eventually someone will try to do something new and interesting, and even possibly create what could be a subgenre for metalcore... And then 500 other bands will come out and do the same exact thing. I also see this a lot in deathcore. Lorna Shore gained a lot of fame with their And I Return To Nothingness EP, particularly with the ending of To the Hellfire. And it was a great song. One of the first deatchore albums I listened to in some time and really enjoyed. Then a bunch of bands just copied that, and made that every single song.
I think metalcore also does essentialy what you said and plays it safe. It feels less like a genre that most people really want to play, and more so that its still close enough to being rougher metal, but still sort of having a lighter tone that it sells. Its a safe, introduction to metal. Which in itself is fine. Yet when so many bands do it, and none of them try to do anything with it and they all blend together, then it kind of just makes the safe feeling stand out even more.
Ironically, them all sounding the same and trying to blend in possibly hurts some of them. It just becomes over saturated. If I dont feel the need to go find as many bands as possible because theres not much variety, then eventually I am just not. And when all 500 of those clones are all clamoring for our attention, it will eventually mean some bands are just not gonna gain any attention. In some ways, thats fine. Some people just want to make music. If anything, going back to hardcore, I think many bands would prefer it to stay that way. But with metalcore, they clearly are trying to make a name for themselves. Hence the rock star attitude. But if they just sound bland and generic, then they likely wont gain a following.
I dont know. Over all I just feel like its a pretty soulless genres. Im not gonna gatekeep and say people shouldnt listen to it. After all, I love grindcore and black metal, and to an extent they do have the same issue of bands sounding the same at times. But at least with a lot of it I feel like the bands are playing what they truly want to play. I just dont personally get the appeal most of the time.
I hate how UnderOath gets tossed in the same bag as Linkin Park.....Linkin Park is almost the 'edgy' or 'alt' version of butt-rock... but have you listened to the first 3 albums from UnderOath? Act of Depression, Cries of the Past, maybe up through The Changing of Times? That shit was very heavy... almost even moreso deathcore than anything else. I don't know what happened after those first few albums and the direction they went, (Probably the departure of Dallas Taylor, replaced by Spencer whoever he is). But Dallas Underoath is the underoath I know and love, and the music they made during those formative years 99' - 03', is iconic. Modern Metalcore does suck, I think you're right... save from a few bands here and there, like Knocked Loose, or SpiritBox, which one could argue are not even metalcore.
I think you made a good point a while back that when nerds get into things, they ruin them. Metalcore is filled with nerds and dorks making the music and it’s overly clinical and formulaic
Edit: I disagree that this is what the fans want. I think that’s why Knocked Loose has gained a lot of traction lately, because they bring the hardcore influence back into it. Or maybe Drain with their thrashy hardcore riffs (speaking of, a video on crossover thrash would be cool)
It's just too saturared and repetitive on youtube, so you have to search for gold. Radio and TV are completely detached.
Bit crazy video... Gatekeeping for 18:30 min straight although saying its not, saying metallyrics have no meaning (ufff never read a Song?) but HC has (which it has, only thing I agree) and then 45 secs of "hey, its cool for everyone, everyone can listen to what they want" (well said) and then: "If you like good music with meaning in the lyrics you like the old stuff, if you just wanna hear sound and give a f*** about lyrics, you listen to the new stuff..." Thats hard man. Music, every genre, is evolving, and even Taylor Swift has something to say in her lyrics, same as Michael Jackson and the Beatles. And her you are and say, hey, every metalband ist saying nothing...ufff. you try to relativate that, but then you don't... yeah, I still like my teeny-bands too, but when they evolve, its in most of the cases good for music in general...but your sitting there and just deny that... Its sad, sounds you did not evolve, although you say you liked the evolution from HC to MC in the beginning... It sounds like somewhere you stopped beeing open for evolution and new stuff... "New" music hast good lyrics too :/