A common thing seen in martial arts films especially from Jackie Chan is defense and defense for others in combat that turn enemies attacks against them. So maybe call it crane stance or something like that or integrate this into current stances
"The first one's free" that's how they get you hooked! I already heard you go over all this in the livestream earlier, but I'm so excited for this monk that I had to listen to it again here. "Let's go!"
I really dig this! Even compared to my beloved PF2E, I like the pivot away from referential orientalism in these stances. They are distinct and inventive, and giving multiple stances that you can swap between gives such strong but clear identity.
I’ve been following this channel for a long time. Previous videos about the DC game system were super interesting. This one took me from “I’ll have to try to get my table to play this at some point” to “I want to run my next game in this system”. Awesome job, loving it!
Now THIS is a video i can get behind! Not the random banter for 2 hours to try and convey your system, but a relatively short and clear description of your material!
Cobra is already a fantastic stance. I love the idea of playing a reactive character in this system. I'd definitely combine it with wolf stance. The attack and move combo is so good as long as you aren't up against someone with a reach weapon. You'd start in wolf stance and depending on whether the enemies were running away or attacking you could swap to cobra stance. And at later levels these stances combo so unbelievably well.
Or you could get a great bonus to resist it. I'm not sure how poisons and diseases will work in DC20, but I imagine that if it is a stronger/long-term one, you would have to make checks from time to time to see how much your body can resist it. And maybe you could get a bonus to that check (a bonus that is calculated that your body overcomes a weaker poison for sure, and still be a significant help against some more deadly ones).
i've been homebrew using Stances for my 5e monks for years, excited to see it be a base part of the monk. The one thing i've struggled to do with monks is make other types of Martial Artists feel represented by the monk. Boxers, Muy Thai fighters, Jiu Jitsu, they don't really fit with the Stance vibe. of course flavoring is a thing but mechanics also influence flavor. do you have any ideas on addressing that? or sticking with the Martial Artist as Kung Fu movies portrays, both are good options.
Love this so much! Makes more and more excited for this system to be complete. Also, what about "Flush Body" instead of "Empty Body." You rock! Continue doing what you're doing!
Another idea with stances could be, to encourage switching in Battle, to react to the Environment, by rewarding it with a regained stamina point, or later feats allowing the switch as a reaction
@@TheDungeonCoach I'm serious, they're freaking awesome, and mechanically represent the fantasy monks offer: a flurry of limbs defeating foes, or using their agility to move around the battlefield, and intuition to read body movement and dodge incoming attacks.
One thing I’d like to request at some point down the road is a way to get heavier weapons onto the monk. I know classically in fantasy they use small or no weapons, but I’d love to take up bigger weapons like the Bo staff, monk spade, or dragon trident. Also, the crescent blade like Guan Yu’s, or other pole arms like a halberd or the aforementioned dragon trident also fit in the monk aesthetic. And monks with twin swords is a sweet visual too. One thing I’d love is to play as an orc with a great hammer. Everyone assumes he’s going to rage and do barbarian things, but then he suddenly starts fighting very *very* differently with the hammer. It would be a cool way to expand on your available character archetypes. Maybe the dual class feature enables this, or maybe it’s a subclass, but however you do it, it would expand on them. I understand if a couple of monk features have to turn off though, since they’re no longer light and spry. Also, cobra stance is mega sweet. Punishing an opponent’s failed attack feels *super* masterful.
@@TheDungeonCoach it might be my fault for not checking out the talents. But also, that’s mega sweet that talents give us this much flexibility. Let me just say that the player side of your game’s design is proving beautiful so far. So much fun and simplicity, with complexity and depth baked into the nooks and crannies when you want it. I’m actually majorly considering buying into the alpha as is. It’s looking great so far. Now, on the DM side of things, majorly easier said than done, I understand that, but definitely make some great DM tools. 5e has made some blatant mistakes that you can prey upon if you’re shrewd enough. One thing we need is a way to craft balanced encounters quickly. A lot of DMs are very much last minute/improve DMs, and having a solid system to (somewhat) balance encounters at a glance can definitely help. Maybe codifying some DM rules to help run weird situations or normalize environmental hazard checks as well as social interactions would help too. And hearing that you have 100 pages, you might already have thought/wrote about them already. Maybe you already are prepared. But DMs are always the bottleneck for getting games going, so giving them the tools to get in and run things smoothly will go a long way towards making your system reach the masses. 5e majorly feels like it has abandoned the DMs, so that’s a chance you have to step in and punish them for it. I love what you’re doing so far, and each bit of information I get on this game makes the whole operation sound better and better. Thanks for replying by the way, your response only helped hold this pattern. I’m a fan now. You genuinely have something special here.
Man, this sounds like a good Monk. Finally! Oh, stances. I like scorpion and wolf a lot. I also love the idea of using action points. Question: If I spend two action points for my second hit in flurry of blows, do I get advantage as usual? Idea for stances: Fox stance (trickery and fighting) Feint: Subtract damage from your first attack (let you decide that) to give advantage to your second Fox's Snap: Attack with a chance to give disadvantage to opponents next attack (like throwing dirt/grass in their eyes) Grasshopper Stance (leaping attacks) Flying Strike: May leap at a target to gain extra damage on your attack (can jump over other opponents?) Bounding Strike: May jump away from a target as part of a strike (like using the force of kicking them to propel yourself)
9:30 “Every single martial is like a battlemaster fighter” THANK YOU!!!! This is how D&D martials should have been from the beginning! So many battle master maneuvers and feats should have just been given for free (as options I mean) to all martials. Why can’t a paladin disarm an enemy? Why can’t a Barbarian shove their enemies? Thank you for fixing that issue.
Neat that different martials gain stamina differently, may creat multiclassing issues but idk if dc20 allows for that. Interesting to hear it's more dynamic, feels like it may create a lot of additional tracking but that may be fine depending on the level of complexity dc20 is aiming for
Loving the stance system. Favourite is Wolf Stance, however I'm a bit biased because I've implemented a feature called hit and run on a class called Tactician that is nearly identical to the mechanics you've shown (it's 1/turn and a 10ft distance). Playtesting this class extensively and I can confirm hit and run us a phenomenally fun feature in play, feels like you're doing dark souls combat rolls all over the place 😉
Big difference between our interpretations is you lean much more heavily into the martial artist archetype while I broaden the scope to a more general disciplined warrior aesthetic. Both good ways to go imo, as opposed to the weird mix of martial artist/warrior 5e tries to deliver.
Okay, after this, I really want to play and/or GM for the DC20 system. The only high fantasy heroic system (i.e. 5e-like) that fills me with similar hope is Daggerheart specifically because of the CritRole cast behind it. Totally going for one of the two (or both). Will there be a way to get the system directly (without all the Patreon hassle) once it's complete-ish?
In about 1-2 months I will be posting the Alpha and it will be available on my website! So stay tuned! Thank you SO MUCH for the kind words and hype!! 💜💜
I was intrigued and enjoying the breakdown, thinking 'Yeah that's not bad.' Until you explained the Spiritual Balance. Spend one, get the other. 🤯 Whoa.
I only check in every once in a while. Everytime I do, I feel like the project is a little less like a "fix" for D&D and more like its very own system. And the more you stop referencing D&D, the more interested I am in what it will be like. I did'nt like a lot of your previous design work as I always felt like the stuff wasn't really working for what I was looking for in D&D. This however doesn't have to fit into something else, it just needs to be coherent with itself. I'm hooked.
Feature Request #2: Have an option for monks to use martial arts weapons like bo staffs, sais, tonfa, nunchaku variants, tai chi swords (crouching tiger), etc. if it's part of their school. They can't use any others etc.
I agree on the whole monk stances thing, and even made a collection of stances for my system, though I made them last until you drop concentration, or become incapacitated, and you can pick any number of them. And with how I handle concentration, the only penalty for using a stance is that if you get hit, you become more likely to lose the stances and all the Ki you spent on them. And hey! Since I didn't use any animal names in my stances, I might see people homebrewing your stuff in (or vice versa). For Flurry of Blows, I made it two extra attacks for a single action and Ki, but ignore all limits. Plus, the increased damage dice are based on a choice. However, for the Multi-Attack, I do still have -2 for subsequent attacks, but only if they're made with the same hand/weapon with all spells counting against the Multi-Attack Limit (I have a dedicated feat that anyone can take to make multiple attacks). For me, I treated Leaf on the Wind as a Reaction to Step away, and reduce an incoming attack roll (which could be considered busted since Monks would get the highest AC in my system), but it's interesting that you use it to increase the Monk's speed. Also wanted to add in my Soaring Dragon Feat... a free space of movement, and one attack with each wielded weapon, for each Ki spent, ignoring all limits. Of course it also takes a bunch of actions, cause it's tiring but even 10 attacks in my system would still only be short of optimal by a small amount, which doesn't count the 5 free spaces of movement that make up for lost actions, and also the fact that a Monk can double their Ki points to make this Feature even stronger. The only limit is that this Feature is locked behind level 5 with lots of other cool stuff around it. And for the Empty Body thing, I agree, it should be a challenge in case you have a Poison or Disease that the DM wants to be a problem, or require a quest to cure. Finally Ki Recovery. I totally agree with how Ki is so heavily used, and needs some way to get it back for consistency, and came up with 2 methods. The first is that all Monks can spend 5 AP (or 1 5e/PF2/DC20 Action) to gain a single Ki Point, which helps them to stay at full strength. The second is Meditative Stance, which recovers 1 Ki for free at the start of each turn, but of course requires you to Concentrate, and doesn't work if someone knocks you out of Concentration before your turn starts. All in all, it's interesting how we tackle progression differently. Cause where you have a whole bunch of cool features at the first few levels, I have a bunch of cool features that players choose every level, so they could take Stunning Strike at 1st level, but then they can't take a Stance. Or they could increase their unarmed damage die, but then they don't get to return missiles. While my system is very much a monk in training, yours is absolutely a prodigy that is learning at a breakneck pace.
I just want to say how amazing this is, and I’m thrilled at how easy this is to incorporate into DND and pathfinder! Always had a problem with Monk. It just felt way too restrictive. And just didn’t give a lot of Monk vibes.(to me).🥰😍🥰 Also Crazy idea for the mongoose stance. What if(assuming you’re flanked) if you hit one enemy, you have advantage on hitting the next enemy, and if that’s a hit, you have advantage on hitting a final third enemy(and if that’s too OP, you can always add a -1 & -2 to damage for the second and third enemy respectively)? WAIT*Remembers this is all for level one.* if you can add stances together later on(implied), then this would get very OP very fast.😰
I totally agree with you on having Class Features at the start. The only reason for classes, and sub-classes, is that each one does something no other class can do, or does something better than any other class. And that has to be clear at every level of that class, even tho other classes may have short term abilities or spells that can overlap them. Best of luck to you with this game. It's certainly a good time to be in this "little hobby."
I can't wait....but you know when talking about patient defense. Something to consider... perhaps a choice of boosting physical vs mental. We have all seen those martial arts movies where the fighter was able to shrug off attacks... Think of Big Trouble in Little China, the character called Thunder. Also what about the ability to catch and redirect missile attacks? Is one of the best features of 5e monks (about the only good feature :) ). You could make it a reaction to catch and ki to redirect similar to 5e...but with the AP system, a monk could theoretically spend all 4 AP catching bullets with his teeth :)
I'm playing a bit of SHadowrun 3e. Physical Adepts are the Martial Arts Monks. The character has a list of abilities that can buy. When you level up you can buy a new ability from the list. Build the character you want. Some abilities need to be activated. I also like SR magic system where spells have a Drain on the caster.
It would be cool if you changed the current “Wolf stance” to “Tiger stance” and made a new wolf stance that had a pack tactic design. Like giving allies offensive buffs or defensive buffs.
Love it my only complaint is the animal themed naming of the stances. I feel like they force you to play one specific image of a monk. If someone wants to play a simple pugilist type character or some kind of street fighter the imagery doesn’t quite mesh. I think simple descriptions would work better. Eg heavy stance, guard stance, quick step stance, etc.
I'd probably change the name of the mongoose stance to monkey stance as I personally think the drunken monkey style fits better for fighting multiple opponents. Mongoose are known more for fighting snakes. Just my thoughts. Love the rest of it.
Because high fantasy: maybe an option for renaming the animals into classic monster name names: wolf/pegasus, bear/golem, tiger/dragon etc...so that the lore recognises the world the characters live in. so looking forward to this since Treantmonk opened my eyes!
Question: Although i love all the monk features early on, i wonder what your take is on multiclassing. Because i can see people taking 1 or 2 levels in monk just for the big features, and then just do whatever they want in their actual class. Since wisdom and intelligence are now the same thing in your system, and unarmored defense is a lvl 1 feature, i can see every single wizard taking a level in monk for the massive boost in armor. Maybe you already thought of this, and figured out how to deal with that, but frontloading a class usually means everybody just dips a level in that class and plays something completely different
Multi-classing in the DC20 System is only accomplished with the Talents you earn (at 2nd level, for instance). And this only lets you get one thing from the other class, not the whole level of goodies.
Love it. Feature Request: In 3.5 you could add ranks into the jump skill and if done right you could go full Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon and perform some kung-fu anime awesomeness. It was acceptable as the PC wasn't using those points for other things. I've been looking at allowing monks to add their Acrobatics score to a jump check.. but sadly you can't assign points in 5E to buff it. A Ki jump could work though as a feat. One of the downsides of 3.5 was the zero weapon limitation - which we home-brewed and isn't a problem now in 5E. High level monks, at least in an Oriental Adventures campaign, should be able to perform fantasy-level jumps, joust in the air, flip behind foes, run on water, etc. Li Mu Bai baby.
I hope there's a way to do a non-mystical monk. Like a boxer. Also the 'reflavor attacks' note on flurry of blows makes me think of reflavoring it as objects, ala Jackie Chan whipping everyone with a ladder and a rope.
Monk seems fairly cool so far, I like the various amount of Styles. It adds some good flavor to the game, and reminds me a bit of DemonWars Reformation by R.A. Salvatore. In that game you made Monks who all used various styles, but you could also mix & match styles as well. The Styles/Stances I would combine or at least choose would be Bear Stance and Turtle Stance, or Cobra Stance and Turtle Stance, especially while surrounded. No, no, no, Bear wrestles. Bears are natural wrestlers and have been used to help enhance the grappling skills of high level grapplers. The Hart family from wrestling, Judo Gene LeBell, Khabib Nurmagomedov, etc. Even in Bear style Kung Fu its main focus is grappling and using your mass against your opponent, though there are some powerful strike elements, too. JK, do what you wish. P.S. From my understanding Mantis does grapples, but they seem like they could be counter grapples locking a joint in place after a counter on a punch or kick. And Mantis specializes in going after vitals, such as eyes, throat, nose, etc. I don't recall, did this have Monkey Stance or Dragon Stance?
So very excited for DC20 and this new monk! 😆 One comment I did want to make is that when I think of a mantis style monk, I don’t imagine a grappler. I more so imagine the kung fu style of deflecting strikes and attacking with precision. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Praying_Mantis
I'm not sure if you're still looking at this video to get suggestions, but if so, I'm mildly concerned about the mechanic of using unused actions to make stamina points. It's very thematic and flavorful, but it also incentivizes you to not do things on your turn. If someone needs a lot of stamina points, you want them to be pushed into doing something fun. Not feel pushed into skipping their turn so that they get all of their stamina back. That's not very fun gameplay for the player.
Any information on the Monk subclasses you are aiming for? I would to try and recreate my pistol-wielding combat medic style Way of Mercy Monk in this system.
I have a hot take for DnD monk, I can't remember if I posted this comment on this channel or not. The hot take: Battle Master should not be a fighter subclass, but instead it should be something all martial classes can do.
12:54 So, can you use the Wolf Stance's free movement while in Turtle Stance (assuming you're high enough level to be in more than one stance)? Turtle disallows Move Actions, but the Wolf's free movement is part of an Attack Action.
Hmm. So the monk straight up pays with action points to gain stamina with no bonus stuff or side effects going on. It is a very controllable way of regaining your resource, but I kinda have my doubts about how exciting it is. Cobra Stance requires you to take damage in the first place, and given that you have to assume it in advance before getting hit... Not sure it's s good design. No one likes getting hit on purpose unless you're building a superfat HP tank or some sort of vampire. And cobras aren't known to tank hits. Overall with stances, unless there's a reactive or defensive benefit, changing stances is kind of redundant.
OK, NOW WE ARE TALKING!!! So these WotC people want to give us previews of martial classes next week and they don't include monk in the list. What the HECK! They wait until the last possible minute to do any monk stuff in the survey as if they didn't KNOW THAT MONK AND RANGER NEEDED NEEDED CHANGES!!!
I still think your damage reduction is really weird. So say I have DR 2, most enemies probably attack for something like 3-4 damage in your system? so someone beats my physical defense by 4, I take 1-2 damage. Someone beat it by 5, and I take 3-4 damage. And maybe they even have a feature like the bear thing, so I actually take 4-5 damage. It feels weird to me, that rolling 1 higher on the attack roll gives such a huge benefit. I really like your take on the monk overall.
I love the feedback! Thank you! My answer to your question would be, I think the one higher represents bypassing the armor, so instead of hitting the armor, and still feeling the effects of the blow this hit would bypass the armor and actually hit you in a weak point… dealing much more damage That’s the way it makes sense to me, and it Hass to be that way also for game balance purposes , But that’s a longer story 😆
@@TheDungeonCoach I still think it feels kind of weird, but it is one of those things you can't truely know until you playtest it I think. Which I look forward to, because I like what you are doing with the system overall :)
I think calling them Stamina point is bad... because stamina is something you get back from rest Now way your thing works is like combo points... you use something to use points or gain points Or maybe call it action points Stamina points just doesn't work imo
The way I solved was to delete monk but give very other martial class monk features. There are monks that hit a lot, that would be a fighter. Give them unarmed strikes and unarmored defense and movement, etc. There are monks that can reduce incoming damage as they can concentrate which is how you refavor rage as a Barbarian and you can use your fists instead of weapons, allowing you to get that fantasy feel of a wrestler. There are monks more connected to nature and can become one with nature, the ranger and of course, the ninja monk: Rogue. Monk took away a lot from other martial classes and makes them weak, by spreading their features into other classes you not only fix monk, but also fix every single martial class.
You know... animal stances are kinda lame If we consider their real-world influences, most Kung fu styles are not themed after animals. Wing Chun, Tai Chi, Bagua, Hung Gar, etc. The only common one is Northern Praying Mantis (which isn't represented in PF2e's set of stances anyway). The usual Crane, Monkey, Snake, etc thing is very specifically Shaolin / Five Animals, which is too narrow to be interesting. Why not have other more interesting non-animal stances, like Eight Directions Stance (Bagua), Six Harmonies Stance (Liuehebafa), etc? If we think about stances as a fantasy, you're not really wanting to get stuck in a particular fighting stance-you'd want to be able to adapt much more fluidly rather than having a static stance to return to. There are stances in fighting, but they encompass entire styles, not this kind of single-effect. The Santishi of Xingyiquan is a default stance for the entire style.
I wonder if for legal reasons or something you should rename things like Patient Defence... perhaps to Focused Defense, or idk, Meditative Defense, or something? Something monkey, I mean, monk-y lol. Edit for my 1st 2 Stances it definitely depends on if I'm going for like a CC Monk of just basic. I think I'd go Cobra and Bear or Bull for basic, and Bull and Grapple (I already forget that Stance) for a CC Monk. All seems interesting, though. I might add Turtle or something later, but those would definitely be my starting Stances. Edit 2: I like the idea of Empty Body and I think maybe by max level it could be "Perfect Empty Body" where it's just like, "You end 1 Disease or Poison effect on yourself." End of story. Lol. But before that, maybe diseases and poisons should have levels or something, and then it's like, "You end 1 disease or poison equal to or less than your Monk level, or may make a check with the DC - your Monk Level." So lets say it's a level 3 poison, DC uh... idk, 15. Well now you can't just end it automatically, but you only have to clear a DC 12. And assuming you have 2 Ki Points, if you fail you can just try again and that gives you 2 chances vs DC 12 plus the initial attempt to shrug it off at DC 15 when it was first applied... vs every other class may only have the 1 chance, or need Cure Disease or something cast on them? Something along those lines?
A common thing seen in martial arts films especially from Jackie Chan is defense and defense for others in combat that turn enemies attacks against them. So maybe call it crane stance or something like that or integrate this into current stances
Drunken Monkey stance?
Fan of the sacrifice my moment for your moment ability.
"The first one's free" that's how they get you hooked!
I already heard you go over all this in the livestream earlier, but I'm so excited for this monk that I had to listen to it again here.
"Let's go!"
Let's Rock!
I really dig this! Even compared to my beloved PF2E, I like the pivot away from referential orientalism in these stances. They are distinct and inventive, and giving multiple stances that you can swap between gives such strong but clear identity.
Love how it FEELS like a monk right away! Also love how simple and easy to implement!
Showing the monk so much love and a ton of options with stances
Love it and I can't wait to build a monk though DC20!
From Wing Chun, I like Willow Palm. If your opponent strikes you, you blister his arm. Similar to the Cobra stance in this system.
Wow, the wording of Flurry of Blows is so crystal clear to understand it !!! Very good job on it. 😉😊✌
I’ve been following this channel for a long time. Previous videos about the DC game system were super interesting. This one took me from “I’ll have to try to get my table to play this at some point” to “I want to run my next game in this system”. Awesome job, loving it!
Omg! Let’s GOOOOO! Thanks for that David!!
Never apologise for how excited you get, Coach! I'm right there with you!
Now THIS is a video i can get behind! Not the random banter for 2 hours to try and convey your system, but a relatively short and clear description of your material!
Okay... now I REALLY want to play a monk in this system. Can’t wait for the alpha!
The new monk is groundbreaking!
Cobra is already a fantastic stance. I love the idea of playing a reactive character in this system. I'd definitely combine it with wolf stance. The attack and move combo is so good as long as you aren't up against someone with a reach weapon.
You'd start in wolf stance and depending on whether the enemies were running away or attacking you could swap to cobra stance. And at later levels these stances combo so unbelievably well.
One way to nerf poison resistance is to instead of fully removing it you either don't take damage for this turn or just take half damage
I love that!! I just took a note on that now!!
Or you could get a great bonus to resist it.
I'm not sure how poisons and diseases will work in DC20, but I imagine that if it is a stronger/long-term one, you would have to make checks from time to time to see how much your body can resist it. And maybe you could get a bonus to that check (a bonus that is calculated that your body overcomes a weaker poison for sure, and still be a significant help against some more deadly ones).
I am soooo digging the DCRPG ideas so far and can't wait to see it launched and get my claws on it!
i've been homebrew using Stances for my 5e monks for years, excited to see it be a base part of the monk. The one thing i've struggled to do with monks is make other types of Martial Artists feel represented by the monk. Boxers, Muy Thai fighters, Jiu Jitsu, they don't really fit with the Stance vibe. of course flavoring is a thing but mechanics also influence flavor.
do you have any ideas on addressing that? or sticking with the Martial Artist as Kung Fu movies portrays, both are good options.
I've literally been working on a homebrew class like this for the monk! The stances are ESSENTIAL!! Def stealing some ideas for my home game 🤫
The cat stance... GIVE ME THE KITTY STANCEEEE!!!
Love this so much! Makes more and more excited for this system to be complete. Also, what about "Flush Body" instead of "Empty Body."
You rock! Continue doing what you're doing!
The stances remind me a bit of the Unchained Monk by Ozzifer, which does work for the DnD system as well. DC20 is gonna be quite interesting!
Holy crap…you fixed Uncanny Dodge by making it more mindful, useful, and probably far less annoying for GMs!
Thanks for that! It’s also really easy to valance things in the system because of the action points 👌🏼
No way! I've been in the habit of reworking all the classes lately and last night it was the monk, and bam! You make a video about it. Love that lol ❤
This really makes me so excited, your videos are so awesome and they inspire me to make my own system.
Very cool. Thematic mechanics are top tier. I am very interested to see if your other classes come through so well. Power on.
Good stuff. I think cobra and wolf stances would be my picks though there are really good options throughout.
Very cool stuff DC!! Looks amazing. I'm excited to try this out, and my favorite stances are Bear and Cobra! 💪
So hype!!! Beem so excited for this!!!!
Another idea with stances could be, to encourage switching in Battle, to react to the Environment, by rewarding it with a regained stamina point, or later feats allowing the switch as a reaction
God damn I love monks, I love your monks most, hands down. No contest.
*bows deeply*
I am honored! Thank you for that!
@@TheDungeonCoach I'm serious, they're freaking awesome, and mechanically represent the fantasy monks offer: a flurry of limbs defeating foes, or using their agility to move around the battlefield, and intuition to read body movement and dodge incoming attacks.
One thing I’d like to request at some point down the road is a way to get heavier weapons onto the monk. I know classically in fantasy they use small or no weapons, but I’d love to take up bigger weapons like the Bo staff, monk spade, or dragon trident. Also, the crescent blade like Guan Yu’s, or other pole arms like a halberd or the aforementioned dragon trident also fit in the monk aesthetic. And monks with twin swords is a sweet visual too.
One thing I’d love is to play as an orc with a great hammer. Everyone assumes he’s going to rage and do barbarian things, but then he suddenly starts fighting very *very* differently with the hammer. It would be a cool way to expand on your available character archetypes. Maybe the dual class feature enables this, or maybe it’s a subclass, but however you do it, it would expand on them. I understand if a couple of monk features have to turn off though, since they’re no longer light and spry.
Also, cobra stance is mega sweet. Punishing an opponent’s failed attack feels *super* masterful.
You could already get them at level 2 with a talent 👍🏼
@@TheDungeonCoach it might be my fault for not checking out the talents. But also, that’s mega sweet that talents give us this much flexibility.
Let me just say that the player side of your game’s design is proving beautiful so far. So much fun and simplicity, with complexity and depth baked into the nooks and crannies when you want it. I’m actually majorly considering buying into the alpha as is. It’s looking great so far.
Now, on the DM side of things, majorly easier said than done, I understand that, but definitely make some great DM tools. 5e has made some blatant mistakes that you can prey upon if you’re shrewd enough. One thing we need is a way to craft balanced encounters quickly. A lot of DMs are very much last minute/improve DMs, and having a solid system to (somewhat) balance encounters at a glance can definitely help. Maybe codifying some DM rules to help run weird situations or normalize environmental hazard checks as well as social interactions would help too. And hearing that you have 100 pages, you might already have thought/wrote about them already. Maybe you already are prepared. But DMs are always the bottleneck for getting games going, so giving them the tools to get in and run things smoothly will go a long way towards making your system reach the masses. 5e majorly feels like it has abandoned the DMs, so that’s a chance you have to step in and punish them for it.
I love what you’re doing so far, and each bit of information I get on this game makes the whole operation sound better and better. Thanks for replying by the way, your response only helped hold this pattern. I’m a fan now. You genuinely have something special here.
Man, this sounds like a good Monk. Finally! Oh, stances.
I like scorpion and wolf a lot. I also love the idea of using action points. Question: If I spend two action points for my second hit in flurry of blows, do I get advantage as usual?
Idea for stances:
Fox stance (trickery and fighting)
Feint: Subtract damage from your first attack (let you decide that) to give advantage to your second
Fox's Snap: Attack with a chance to give disadvantage to opponents next attack (like throwing dirt/grass in their eyes)
Grasshopper Stance (leaping attacks)
Flying Strike: May leap at a target to gain extra damage on your attack (can jump over other opponents?)
Bounding Strike: May jump away from a target as part of a strike (like using the force of kicking them to propel yourself)
9:30 “Every single martial is like a battlemaster fighter” THANK YOU!!!! This is how D&D martials should have been from the beginning! So many battle master maneuvers and feats should have just been given for free (as options I mean) to all martials. Why can’t a paladin disarm an enemy? Why can’t a Barbarian shove their enemies? Thank you for fixing that issue.
Let's go! Sounds really good!
You cracked it. This is perfect.
@DC Stances don't specify just unarmed strike, could you pick Stances with a talent point (for multi-classing) and then use them with weapons?
I can't wait to see this game in full! While I like what I see from Daggerheart, this feels like it could be the REAL D&D killer!
What two stances? I have to represent! Wolf stance and mongoose for my 2nd. So much utility!
I love the Mongoose & Scorpion stances! Would be my pick at lvl 1
Yooo, just published my video on my monk redesign a couple of weeks ago. Excited to see how yours matches up 💪
(also calling it now, I bet there's going to be at least one DBZ reference on there)
Okay... Might need to keep a running commentary. My monk uses stamina too, and it's commonto all martials also! Great minds 😉
Neat that different martials gain stamina differently, may creat multiclassing issues but idk if dc20 allows for that. Interesting to hear it's more dynamic, feels like it may create a lot of additional tracking but that may be fine depending on the level of complexity dc20 is aiming for
Loving the stance system. Favourite is Wolf Stance, however I'm a bit biased because I've implemented a feature called hit and run on a class called Tactician that is nearly identical to the mechanics you've shown (it's 1/turn and a 10ft distance). Playtesting this class extensively and I can confirm hit and run us a phenomenally fun feature in play, feels like you're doing dark souls combat rolls all over the place 😉
Big difference between our interpretations is you lean much more heavily into the martial artist archetype while I broaden the scope to a more general disciplined warrior aesthetic. Both good ways to go imo, as opposed to the weird mix of martial artist/warrior 5e tries to deliver.
I love everything!
Okay, after this, I really want to play and/or GM for the DC20 system. The only high fantasy heroic system (i.e. 5e-like) that fills me with similar hope is Daggerheart specifically because of the CritRole cast behind it. Totally going for one of the two (or both).
Will there be a way to get the system directly (without all the Patreon hassle) once it's complete-ish?
There will be a Kickstarter next summer for the completed system
@@GrandOldDwarf Then I'm totally kicking it.
In about 1-2 months I will be posting the Alpha and it will be available on my website! So stay tuned! Thank you SO MUCH for the kind words and hype!! 💜💜
I was intrigued and enjoying the breakdown, thinking 'Yeah that's not bad.' Until you explained the Spiritual Balance. Spend one, get the other.
🤯 Whoa.
I only check in every once in a while. Everytime I do, I feel like the project is a little less like a "fix" for D&D and more like its very own system. And the more you stop referencing D&D, the more interested I am in what it will be like.
I did'nt like a lot of your previous design work as I always felt like the stuff wasn't really working for what I was looking for in D&D. This however doesn't have to fit into something else, it just needs to be coherent with itself.
I'm hooked.
Feature Request #2: Have an option for monks to use martial arts weapons like bo staffs, sais, tonfa, nunchaku variants, tai chi swords (crouching tiger), etc. if it's part of their school. They can't use any others etc.
Mongoose and Cobra stance combined would be nutty!
Sounds like you've created a great game that will be a lot of fun to play.
So so good, I can't wait to try this out!!
I agree on the whole monk stances thing, and even made a collection of stances for my system, though I made them last until you drop concentration, or become incapacitated, and you can pick any number of them. And with how I handle concentration, the only penalty for using a stance is that if you get hit, you become more likely to lose the stances and all the Ki you spent on them. And hey! Since I didn't use any animal names in my stances, I might see people homebrewing your stuff in (or vice versa).
For Flurry of Blows, I made it two extra attacks for a single action and Ki, but ignore all limits. Plus, the increased damage dice are based on a choice. However, for the Multi-Attack, I do still have -2 for subsequent attacks, but only if they're made with the same hand/weapon with all spells counting against the Multi-Attack Limit (I have a dedicated feat that anyone can take to make multiple attacks).
For me, I treated Leaf on the Wind as a Reaction to Step away, and reduce an incoming attack roll (which could be considered busted since Monks would get the highest AC in my system), but it's interesting that you use it to increase the Monk's speed. Also wanted to add in my Soaring Dragon Feat... a free space of movement, and one attack with each wielded weapon, for each Ki spent, ignoring all limits. Of course it also takes a bunch of actions, cause it's tiring but even 10 attacks in my system would still only be short of optimal by a small amount, which doesn't count the 5 free spaces of movement that make up for lost actions, and also the fact that a Monk can double their Ki points to make this Feature even stronger. The only limit is that this Feature is locked behind level 5 with lots of other cool stuff around it.
And for the Empty Body thing, I agree, it should be a challenge in case you have a Poison or Disease that the DM wants to be a problem, or require a quest to cure.
Finally Ki Recovery. I totally agree with how Ki is so heavily used, and needs some way to get it back for consistency, and came up with 2 methods. The first is that all Monks can spend 5 AP (or 1 5e/PF2/DC20 Action) to gain a single Ki Point, which helps them to stay at full strength. The second is Meditative Stance, which recovers 1 Ki for free at the start of each turn, but of course requires you to Concentrate, and doesn't work if someone knocks you out of Concentration before your turn starts.
All in all, it's interesting how we tackle progression differently. Cause where you have a whole bunch of cool features at the first few levels, I have a bunch of cool features that players choose every level, so they could take Stunning Strike at 1st level, but then they can't take a Stance. Or they could increase their unarmed damage die, but then they don't get to return missiles. While my system is very much a monk in training, yours is absolutely a prodigy that is learning at a breakneck pace.
I would like the option to play a European style monk
That's a Cleric in a robe
I just want to say how amazing this is, and I’m thrilled at how easy this is to incorporate into DND and pathfinder! Always had a problem with Monk. It just felt way too restrictive. And just didn’t give a lot of Monk vibes.(to me).🥰😍🥰
Also
Crazy idea for the mongoose stance. What if(assuming you’re flanked) if you hit one enemy, you have advantage on hitting the next enemy, and if that’s a hit, you have advantage on hitting a final third enemy(and if that’s too OP, you can always add a -1 & -2 to damage for the second and third enemy respectively)? WAIT*Remembers this is all for level one.* if you can add stances together later on(implied), then this would get very OP very fast.😰
wolf and mongoose makes a very agile monk
I totally agree with you on having Class Features at the start. The only reason for classes, and sub-classes, is that each one does something no other class can do, or does something better than any other class. And that has to be clear at every level of that class, even tho other classes may have short term abilities or spells that can overlap them. Best of luck to you with this game. It's certainly a good time to be in this "little hobby."
I can't wait....but you know when talking about patient defense.
Something to consider... perhaps a choice of boosting physical vs mental. We have all seen those martial arts movies where the fighter was able to shrug off attacks... Think of Big Trouble in Little China, the character called Thunder.
Also what about the ability to catch and redirect missile attacks? Is one of the best features of 5e monks (about the only good feature :) ).
You could make it a reaction to catch and ki to redirect similar to 5e...but with the AP system, a monk could theoretically spend all 4 AP catching bullets with his teeth :)
This is going to be cool
I've never played a monk. I'm gonna have to play a monk now.
I'm playing a bit of SHadowrun 3e. Physical Adepts are the Martial Arts Monks. The character has a list of abilities that can buy. When you level up you can buy a new ability from the list. Build the character you want. Some abilities need to be activated. I also like SR magic system where spells have a Drain on the caster.
It would be cool if you changed the current “Wolf stance” to “Tiger stance” and made a new wolf stance that had a pack tactic design. Like giving allies offensive buffs or defensive buffs.
Love it my only complaint is the animal themed naming of the stances. I feel like they force you to play one specific image of a monk. If someone wants to play a simple pugilist type character or some kind of street fighter the imagery doesn’t quite mesh. I think simple descriptions would work better. Eg heavy stance, guard stance, quick step stance, etc.
I'd probably change the name of the mongoose stance to monkey stance as I personally think the drunken monkey style fits better for fighting multiple opponents. Mongoose are known more for fighting snakes. Just my thoughts. Love the rest of it.
Because high fantasy: maybe an option for renaming the animals into classic monster name names: wolf/pegasus, bear/golem, tiger/dragon etc...so that the lore recognises the world the characters live in. so looking forward to this since Treantmonk opened my eyes!
I like bull stance.
Wow!!! Genius!
Maybe you can use Empty Body through fasting, so you gain something like exhaustion or you don't heal as much when you rest.
Question:
Although i love all the monk features early on, i wonder what your take is on multiclassing. Because i can see people taking 1 or 2 levels in monk just for the big features, and then just do whatever they want in their actual class.
Since wisdom and intelligence are now the same thing in your system, and unarmored defense is a lvl 1 feature, i can see every single wizard taking a level in monk for the massive boost in armor.
Maybe you already thought of this, and figured out how to deal with that, but frontloading a class usually means everybody just dips a level in that class and plays something completely different
Multi-classing in the DC20 System is only accomplished with the Talents you earn (at 2nd level, for instance). And this only lets you get one thing from the other class, not the whole level of goodies.
@@GrandOldDwarf check.
I forgot about that. Thanks for clarifying this!
scorpion and mongoose for sure!!!
Love it. Feature Request: In 3.5 you could add ranks into the jump skill and if done right you could go full Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon and perform some kung-fu anime awesomeness. It was acceptable as the PC wasn't using those points for other things. I've been looking at allowing monks to add their Acrobatics score to a jump check.. but sadly you can't assign points in 5E to buff it. A Ki jump could work though as a feat. One of the downsides of 3.5 was the zero weapon limitation - which we home-brewed and isn't a problem now in 5E. High level monks, at least in an Oriental Adventures campaign, should be able to perform fantasy-level jumps, joust in the air, flip behind foes, run on water, etc. Li Mu Bai baby.
I hope there's a way to do a non-mystical monk. Like a boxer.
Also the 'reflavor attacks' note on flurry of blows makes me think of reflavoring it as objects, ala Jackie Chan whipping everyone with a ladder and a rope.
I'm thinkin of a mixed lineage (Giantborn/Dwarf or maybe Human/Dwarf) Monk with a multiclass talent dip into Scion for either TK or MB.
Monk seems fairly cool so far, I like the various amount of Styles. It adds some good flavor to the game, and reminds me a bit of DemonWars Reformation by R.A. Salvatore. In that game you made Monks who all used various styles, but you could also mix & match styles as well.
The Styles/Stances I would combine or at least choose would be Bear Stance and Turtle Stance, or Cobra Stance and Turtle Stance, especially while surrounded.
No, no, no, Bear wrestles. Bears are natural wrestlers and have been used to help enhance the grappling skills of high level grapplers. The Hart family from wrestling, Judo Gene LeBell, Khabib Nurmagomedov, etc. Even in Bear style Kung Fu its main focus is grappling and using your mass against your opponent, though there are some powerful strike elements, too.
JK, do what you wish.
P.S.
From my understanding Mantis does grapples, but they seem like they could be counter grapples locking a joint in place after a counter on a punch or kick. And Mantis specializes in going after vitals, such as eyes, throat, nose, etc.
I don't recall, did this have Monkey Stance or Dragon Stance?
P.P.S.
MOOOOORTAAAAAL KOOOOOOMBAAAAAAT! *ques music*
So very excited for DC20 and this new monk! 😆
One comment I did want to make is that when I think of a mantis style monk, I don’t imagine a grappler. I more so imagine the kung fu style of deflecting strikes and attacking with precision.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Praying_Mantis
I'm not sure if you're still looking at this video to get suggestions, but if so, I'm mildly concerned about the mechanic of using unused actions to make stamina points. It's very thematic and flavorful, but it also incentivizes you to not do things on your turn. If someone needs a lot of stamina points, you want them to be pushed into doing something fun. Not feel pushed into skipping their turn so that they get all of their stamina back. That's not very fun gameplay for the player.
Wolf and cobra.
Seems neat but FYI in dnd there is a thing called monk weapons
Any information on the Monk subclasses you are aiming for? I would to try and recreate my pistol-wielding combat medic style Way of Mercy Monk in this system.
Grading this against Unchained monk and 13th age. I'd give this high c-low b.
You missed the Segal stance: Sitting
Ill be lookung into this system! Playtest 6 really made me lose all hope for 5e monks 😃
I have a hot take for DnD monk, I can't remember if I posted this comment on this channel or not.
The hot take: Battle Master should not be a fighter subclass, but instead it should be something all martial classes can do.
12:54 So, can you use the Wolf Stance's free movement while in Turtle Stance (assuming you're high enough level to be in more than one stance)? Turtle disallows Move Actions, but the Wolf's free movement is part of an Attack Action.
Let’s go
Disease is natural. Poison is largely unnatural. Maybe 1 Stamina to end Poison, 1 Ki to end Disease?
Hmm. So the monk straight up pays with action points to gain stamina with no bonus stuff or side effects going on. It is a very controllable way of regaining your resource, but I kinda have my doubts about how exciting it is.
Cobra Stance requires you to take damage in the first place, and given that you have to assume it in advance before getting hit... Not sure it's s good design. No one likes getting hit on purpose unless you're building a superfat HP tank or some sort of vampire. And cobras aren't known to tank hits.
Overall with stances, unless there's a reactive or defensive benefit, changing stances is kind of redundant.
Fan, however didn't you research Gygax and the cloak of flying during a Monk free fun adventure?
This extra attacks you get from stanc has disadvantage based on the number of attacks you did on your turn?
OK, NOW WE ARE TALKING!!! So these WotC people want to give us previews of martial classes next week and they don't include monk in the list. What the HECK! They wait until the last possible minute to do any monk stuff in the survey as if they didn't KNOW THAT MONK AND RANGER NEEDED NEEDED CHANGES!!!
Would there be “Stunning strike”-like feature in DC20 monk?
I still think your damage reduction is really weird.
So say I have DR 2, most enemies probably attack for something like 3-4 damage in your system? so someone beats my physical defense by 4, I take 1-2 damage. Someone beat it by 5, and I take 3-4 damage. And maybe they even have a feature like the bear thing, so I actually take 4-5 damage. It feels weird to me, that rolling 1 higher on the attack roll gives such a huge benefit.
I really like your take on the monk overall.
I love the feedback! Thank you!
My answer to your question would be, I think the one higher represents bypassing the armor, so instead of hitting the armor, and still feeling the effects of the blow this hit would bypass the armor and actually hit you in a weak point… dealing much more damage
That’s the way it makes sense to me, and it Hass to be that way also for game balance purposes ,
But that’s a longer story 😆
@@TheDungeonCoach I still think it feels kind of weird, but it is one of those things you can't truely know until you playtest it I think. Which I look forward to, because I like what you are doing with the system overall :)
What ate your thoughts on making a SoulKnife?
Is there a way I can get Sneak Attack on Unarmed Strikes?
No Monkey stance? Maybe have it cause disadvantage to melee attacks made against the Monk?
😎
I think calling them Stamina point is bad... because stamina is something you get back from rest
Now way your thing works is like combo points... you use something to use points or gain points
Or maybe call it action points
Stamina points just doesn't work imo
Hah!! first!
You must have chosen Gazelle stance! That was fast lol
@@TheDungeonCoach hhhhhhh, personally, I would say scorpion stance! The moment the video landed within my reach....BAM!! Opportunity Attack!
The way I solved was to delete monk but give very other martial class monk features. There are monks that hit a lot, that would be a fighter. Give them unarmed strikes and unarmored defense and movement, etc. There are monks that can reduce incoming damage as they can concentrate which is how you refavor rage as a Barbarian and you can use your fists instead of weapons, allowing you to get that fantasy feel of a wrestler. There are monks more connected to nature and can become one with nature, the ranger and of course, the ninja monk: Rogue.
Monk took away a lot from other martial classes and makes them weak, by spreading their features into other classes you not only fix monk, but also fix every single martial class.
If you are going to use intelligence for that and wisdom, perhaps consider calling it Understanding.
You know... animal stances are kinda lame
If we consider their real-world influences, most Kung fu styles are not themed after animals. Wing Chun, Tai Chi, Bagua, Hung Gar, etc. The only common one is Northern Praying Mantis (which isn't represented in PF2e's set of stances anyway).
The usual Crane, Monkey, Snake, etc thing is very specifically Shaolin / Five Animals, which is too narrow to be interesting. Why not have other more interesting non-animal stances, like Eight Directions Stance (Bagua), Six Harmonies Stance (Liuehebafa), etc?
If we think about stances as a fantasy, you're not really wanting to get stuck in a particular fighting stance-you'd want to be able to adapt much more fluidly rather than having a static stance to return to. There are stances in fighting, but they encompass entire styles, not this kind of single-effect. The Santishi of Xingyiquan is a default stance for the entire style.
I wonder if for legal reasons or something you should rename things like Patient Defence... perhaps to Focused Defense, or idk, Meditative Defense, or something? Something monkey, I mean, monk-y lol.
Edit for my 1st 2 Stances it definitely depends on if I'm going for like a CC Monk of just basic. I think I'd go Cobra and Bear or Bull for basic, and Bull and Grapple (I already forget that Stance) for a CC Monk. All seems interesting, though. I might add Turtle or something later, but those would definitely be my starting Stances.
Edit 2: I like the idea of Empty Body and I think maybe by max level it could be "Perfect Empty Body" where it's just like, "You end 1 Disease or Poison effect on yourself." End of story. Lol. But before that, maybe diseases and poisons should have levels or something, and then it's like, "You end 1 disease or poison equal to or less than your Monk level, or may make a check with the DC - your Monk Level." So lets say it's a level 3 poison, DC uh... idk, 15. Well now you can't just end it automatically, but you only have to clear a DC 12. And assuming you have 2 Ki Points, if you fail you can just try again and that gives you 2 chances vs DC 12 plus the initial attempt to shrug it off at DC 15 when it was first applied... vs every other class may only have the 1 chance, or need Cure Disease or something cast on them? Something along those lines?
Is that an AI generated thumbnail? Not cool.