Tillotson 225RS Vs 225R Dyno Testing
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- Опубликовано: 20 май 2024
- Today we get in the Tillotson 225RS racing engine to test on the dyno. We go through the history of the 225RS and where its place is in this hobby & industry. We take it to the dyno and test the 2023 short exhaust, then the 2024 new long exhaust, EC WC22 carb, then switch it to the 225R spec and test the WC22 vs the GPS22 carb.
Parts Used In This Video
WC22 Carb Kit - bit.ly/3Sl52HG
WC22 Curved Intake Manifold - bit.ly/4dKl2wI
Tillotson 225RS Engine - bit.ly/3Kb8tx2
Tillotson 225RS Cylinder Head - bit.ly/4dKJJZT
Long Header - bit.ly/3Ku8rAx
Short Header - bit.ly/44Mtibr
Billet Flywheel - bit.ly/3wP1G8U
Unlimited Coil - bit.ly/3wn8uX2
Billet Valve Cover - bit.ly/3ykcXyr
Magnetic Dipstick - bit.ly/3Ylg7do
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Parts & Tools used on the channel - amazon.com/shop/redbeardsgarage
Quantum Machinery - Siegmund Welding Table - bit.ly/4aECr8j - code RBG
- Nargesa CC60 Bender - bit.ly/2xWDVxj
- Macc 320 Band Saw - bit.ly/3Tl2g5J
Prime Weld Tig 225x - amzn.to/3L4U3MG
Prime Weld MIG180- amzn.to/3KVUPvn
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*********Disclaimer*********
Please do not try to re-enact or recreate anything you see in these videos. We are trained professionals. Red Beards Garage does not take any responsibility for injury's created by doing so.
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Copyright © 2024-2030 Red Beard's Garage / Greg Davis. All rights reserved. 
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The GPS carb tested in this video was a 26mm version and should have been the 22mm version. You can take that info however you’d like. Still should have made more power if tuned properly but we did not change any jets in the 3 carbs.
Mikuni is a big name and still has a reputation behind it that people still trust and are willing to drop money on a name. Either way, I enjoyed the video, can't wait to see what's up next!
I really like how your videos are set up! slight music in the background not too loud, cuts to shots of parts while talking, great job explaining, and background for the main shot of the video. You definitely have some great video quality skills keep it up!
I know you are very busy and it's not high up on your list but the 500 and 999 are going to be epic with your attention to tuneing.great to see actual numbers not wild claims others make for their "tune up vids" great work 👍
Man, without the rev limiter that thing sounded wicked! My built 212 sounds the same! I wish i had access to a dyno here in Upstate New York because my Rascal with my engine is scary fast. Actually the engine is way more than i need. I'm going to be putting on some much taller tires, as in 19's or 20's, so that is just going to make it faster yet. I want torque for riding off road, not flying down the street. But wheeling anytime on a roll is a whole lot of fun for this old man! Love your channel Red Beard!
Thanks RBG, this vid is chocked full-O-nuts great info.! Nice to hear about new carbs that perform great, are easily tuneable, yet wallet friendly!
As always, so very cool. you make real tech something we can understand. Thank you sir and Mrs redbeard for the viedo!
Great video! Very informative and knowledgeable
I trusted my money to EC and bought a bad ass 32/25 Head that came already smoothed out inside and everything. It was $200 but hold smokes it’s nice and ready out of the box. THANKS EC
Very comprehensive. Good vid.
Love dyno videos. Proof what works and what doesn't. Man I want to see a gy6 build. Lots of aftermarket parts but no proof anything works. Nobody has real gy6 dyno numbers.
Everything that you've said in this video, especially in the beginning about EC carburetors and all the joining companies to come together to make the to listen to 225 for the competition racing racing. I've been saying it for years I'm glad people are starting to figure this stuff out.
I've really been liking those cheap 24mm PWKs. Maybe next time you could possibly throw one of those in there to see how they stack up. I think they most definitely outperform my round slides
We will do another carb shootout soon.
So I race the 225rs and tillotson offered to do the 7500rpm and high compression upgrade. The motor is now blown. Rod shot through the front. From everything I'm seeing it needs to be much leaner and better cooling. I only had 25 hours
It would be great if you could dyno with and without a choke flap and rod
Wish there was more people out there that did this content. I love it high quality content that people want to see. U helped me build my little 224 pred 2 years ago with the vids getting back into it again now. What ever happened to the sent in engine by the fan. I’m dying to see how it came out and the hp it was pushing.
You have such good content. How about a dyno run before and after a head port and polish.
That's also great to know that I have a GPS 22 on my tillotson 225 are when they first came into go power sports. The engine will always cut off around 7:00 RPM and I couldn't figure out why or what was going. I tried everything from changing the ignition Gap to different Jets and all kinds of stuff but it never really fixed it. I did change over to a maybe nibbi 26 for a while . It had pretty good idol and top end but the mid-range was kind of shoddy and needed a lot of tuning
Love the WC22 carb. They run great out of the box on most 212's. The GPS carb isn't bad but I have also found that it's jetted too big out of the box for most common stuff. Have you run EC's PWK 24 yet? I have one in the box but haven't put it on anything yet.
Great test! Thx
How about doing a Oillevel and Oil viscosity test?
How little Oil amount is needed?
Interested to see what the 228 makes
I saw you stiffened up the engine mounting a while ago on the dyno, how long before we start seeing some big block engines? I want to see if a predator 420 with a flat top piston outperforms the extra displacement of the duromax 440.
Enjoy watching your videos. Very informative. Seeing the dyno runs is awesome. Liking the mini bike videos. Is it possible to build a street legal mini bike in Tennessee?
He did years ago! Think he scattered a flywheel on that bike too.
@@darrellnichter9894
Do you have a rough time frame, so I can narrow down the search. I seem to recall Greg working on a mini bike that was to be street legal. Although, I don't remember much about it, or if he completely finished that one. I am interested in a street legal mini bike for short runs out to the nearby DG and other places in my small town. Thank you for the reply. -Rob in Tennessee
I found the street legal build, it was 5 years ago. Again thank you.
Funny enough, your mentioning of the long header helping dissipate exhaust heat made me think about the exhaust manifold leak my brother's Miata currently has and how its probably actually making the engine run a little hotter due to adding engine bay heat on top of the obvious carbon monoxide dangers. Thankfully its a convertible but still, lol
One thing not noted is that between the two flywheels there is a 2° timing advance . Which helps in high rpm
Actually it’s 4 degrees difference. But the results show it didn’t really help all that much.
@@RedBeardsGarage The Tillotson 225 RS comes with 31degrees advance standard ?
I would love to see a dyno comparison between cam manufacturers on say a 265 or 275 lift cam . 265 seems to be the performance standard, but 275 has more variations. Your choice on the displcement of the test mule engine.
I will see about doing that.
Thanks for the video once again.
Are there any videos showing clutch and or cvt and how they impact the top speed of the vehicles?
I love this video my favorite motor is still the ghost 👻 🙌🔥🙌
I have an NOS wet nitrous kit and a stock predator 212 laying around! Please let me blow it up on your dyno for a video.
Make your own video bro
Hey, what oil do you use in your builds? And how can I get that exhaust you have on the table? Or I should ask how can I get one to fit my predator 224?
In one of your videos, you have one of your engines mounted on this red plate that is hooked onto your workbench as you're working on it. Where did you get that at, or is that something that you made. I sure like to buy one if they are made for production.
Would the EC curved manifold work with the nibbi pe22fl on a 212 hemi?
Hi. Tell me why the exhaust pipe can heat up to red? I think the problem may be in incorrectly configured valves. I have a predator 212 engine. And the valve clearances are as follows: inlet 0.25 mm, outlet 0.30mm. I also have a lightweight flywheel, a vm22 carburetor and a rev limiter removed. At the same time, I have no problems with starting and the color of the candle is brick.
Can you tell us how long and id the newer tillotson pipe is?
Hey so took off the governor on my predator 212 put 18lb springs and a fly wheel put it together but when I try to accelerate it will go for a sec then stop and clues on what could be wrong ?
Didja figure it out?
Ususally you got a hemi flywheel bt mistake
Novice here! I have a question. I’m always seeing people run tubes out of their valve covers. Is this only when using a pulse pump? I have a gravity fed tank and just wondering if I need to run anything like that? I have this 225rs engine and I’m replacing the carb. I just need a regular intake without the barb, correct? Thanks for any info! 14:15
I'd love to see that head shaved around .060, and run a test. Port it, test again. You'll need a non projected tip plug or the piston will start closing the gap.
I’m gonna try a wc22 on my built gx160 the Amazon special carb does ok but the throttle response is pretty bad
Will the wildcat 223 be coming back to the channel
I feel like I hear the boys at GPS screaming "shots fired" lmao
Nah they really couldn't care less about any of us actually, I could show you emails even, but it's not worth my time.
My mikuni vm22 is leaking gas’s from the hose at the bottom and when i mange to get it started it will die when i give it gas any tips at all would be appreciated
Are the build 223 wildcat yall built reliable and be used for weekly riding or would parts need to be replaced to offen?
They are supposed to be tougher than a Predator.
I have a hemi predator I have beaten on almost every day for aout 10 months now and it still fires up first pull, still on the stock rod.
So I would think a Wildcat would do what you asked without a problem.
26mm measured at the venturi ??
no, only uneducated reseller call this a 26mm carb. the venturi area is 22mm equivalent.
Thanks!
Thank you for the donation!
Hey, I have a 212cc predator with a stage 1 kit on it and I would like too upgrade it too like stage 2 or more, I'm 14 and scared to mess up my engine, so if you could help that would awesome
Good luck
By a cheap used one and tear into it best way to get started.
Good point
Im looking to build the fastest possible trailmaster hurricane. Do you build motors for other people. I have a very high budget for this build!
Best if you email him and ask.
😂
Tillotson, one of the Biggest Karting specific carburetor companies made one of the WORST 4Cycle carbs ever for the 225RS. (I am running a World Formula Carb, Friggin lights out)
EC sourced a bunch of Built 196cc "Clone" stuff for the engine
Early engines had a few gremlins, but they are working through them, later Generation engines are much improved (except the carb)
Carb had nothing to do with the engine issues. Nothing wrong with the current carb either... Most if not all gremlins are fixed as of now on new batch engines coming out
The wc22 pilot does not actually have a 12.5 pilot. EC must drill them out. It's closer to a .45mm jet. The amount of money and time I wasted figuring that out was fun😒
Lets step it up to a lectron carb.
Can you dyno 196r
But will it play Crysis. :D
Try a nibbi 24
I love my PWK carb. I have about 1000 miles on it and it has been solid thus far. I have tried other carbs and I had issues with them. Including Nibbi
Dyno a 440 duromax
Why would you even compare such an untuned carb? That makes no sense to me. It put unnecessary bad light on a part that it should not. When replacing a carb, it should be expected to have to properly tune it.
We tuned non of the carbs. Every carb tested claims it’s tuned.
@@RedBeardsGaragethats a ridiculous claim, any tuner knows that a carb is going to need tuned to the elevation and many other factors, hell the daily weather can ruin a good ride.
@@shaner.5 True, but are you expected to change the metering rods, float levels, air bleeds, emulsion tube and nozzle too? Because if you are optimizing the tune of a carburetor for weather or elevation it may require more than jet changes which is not something most novice mini biker can do . If you read the description of these carburetors they all claim to be tuned to improve the performance of your engine. Neither the Tillotson FM22 or WC22 were adjusted and were much closer out of the box. If you look up the average humidity and elevation in Dallas Tx and Sweetwater Tn its 500 vs 1000ft(500ft difference) and 6% humidity(66% vs 72% average) it's not like you are in Colorado at 6500ft and 30% humidity. The WC22 was tested on the Ghost 223, Wildcat 223 and the Tillotson 225RS and 225R at different times of the year but performed nearly the same in each test. Also consider, the GPS parts were used on the channel for years and the TM24 seem to run fine without re-jetting and it's tuned from the same place but you rarely if ever see the GPS22 or VM22 and its probably for this reason.
@@PrecisionGarage it would be interesting to use the same jets in each carb if possible, the jets with the correct AFR. Jets vary to much from brand to brand even the same manufacturer only way to really know a jet or pilot is to flow test, even if its with a pop bottle a peice of tubing and a scale or a test tube and a stop watch. Its amazing how far off jets really are. So a 155 jet should flow 155ml in 30 seconds or a minute i forget the length of time but its the only way to know if a 130 is flowing more than a 125 jet i have had a 130 flow more than a 160, manufacturers suck so its peace of mind, to many people have problems tuning there carbs and this simple test will solve so many of those tuning problems.
@@shaner.5 True, jet flow is an important part of tuning. We don't know the true value of these jets. But it's like I said there is more to carburetor tuning than jetting. There is also the different changes between the engines: three exhausts, three intakes, two different ignition coils, two flywheels with different timing. The Tillotson FM22 and WC22 both use enrichment valves where the GPS22 looks to use a choke shutter which will affect airflow and possibly signal, so if the same jets were used, I would still expect different results. The only way we're going to know is if nothing changes but the carburetors(same engine, same intake, etc) and which ever runs best use those jets in each of the carburetors. I would add an eBay or Amazon VM22 carburetor in the mix. It seems the carburetors took spotlight in the video but the title is Tillotson 225RS vs 225R where one is suppose to be a 15hp engine and the other a 17hp, turns out they are both about 14.5hp. The WC22 carburetor was probably used as a constant in the the test between the two engines since it's been the same carburetor used on the other stage 3 engines. The Tillotson FM22 is the Tillotson 225RS carb and the GPS22 is the Tillotson 225R carb and the WC22 is the constant used on all the engines and has shown better A/F Ratios. In any case, the Tillotson 225R isn't going to make the 17hp that it's claimed to make. Just my .02
Do a nibbi carb
9:3:1 compression is pretty weak for a race motor imo! Should be 10.5:1 or more ! Race motors like Race gas!
Great and very well thought out video! Also...thoughts on the nibbi 24mm carbs? I really like mine! My step son's predator 212 with mikuni 22 on a 105 main, (Everyone claims a 130, not the correct answer lol) and richest needle clip and ARC rod and fly with the 265 cam made 14.51hp at 5k on dyno here in Pittsburgh, PA area. not too shabby! My Tilly 212 pulls on it slightly at speed and I'm a good bit heavier so I'm guessing mines around 15-16hp. I need to get rid of a light throttle stumble....CAN'T GET RID OF IT! I'm lost as I've tried EVERYTHING!
I found out that a 130 is actually a lot of fuel ROFL.
Could smell it everytime I started the bike.
Man I spent all winter and part of Spring saving up the best performance parts I could afford and it took so long that I damn near lost interest. Even after spending like 4-5 grand on mine and my oldest daughters bikes. So we got some sunny Oregon days and I got the parts cleaned and started painting stuff. I like to paint the right way so I use primer, color coat and clear coat all the same brand and series paints. In this case I used all Duplicolor high heat engine paint with enamel and ceramic. I’m doing my bike in gloss black and the duplicolor metal cast high heat anodized blue for the accents on my head and other parts which I haven’t planned out completely or done yet. I did the head and the exhaust was done black with a faded point into the blue where it meets the head so it’s gonna look dope. My daughter is getting gloss black and Teal which looks even cooler tbh😂. I gotta get building though so I’m watching all your videos again to get hyped up and refresh my memory