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Insurance can be as big of a cost as the bike itself, if not even more. Harleys and other cruisers tend to get a little bit of a break, but still it can be a massive expense. I'd be curious to know how many of the Street models are sold on an annual basis? Personally, the two 2018 models I like the most are the Deluxe and the Fat Boy 114, mainly because I'm only about 5'7", now, so a low seat height and easy reach to the bars works for me. I remember that H-D offered a Sportster in an 883R, with orange paint and checkered flag graphics, that wasn't overly expensive at the time, and a plain-jane XL1200 with mid controls, and the 3.3 gallon tank. It also had a decently padded 2-up seat. The only downside to me with those models, is that they were both carbureted, which meant lots of tinkering to go from 1300-ft Phoenix to 6500-ft Flagstaff. With the new injected models, it wouldn't a concern, other than having to adjust riding style to match the power losses. I would also like to know what do you think about the bikes in the 300cc-class for new riders?
There are a couple reasons I did not buy a Harley when bought a new bike in February of 2016, first was the almost $27,000 price tag of the Road Glide Ultra and even more importantly was the fact that there is not enough room on the bike for my 6'3" 280 lb. frame. The fact that I was able to get a new 2015 Kawasaki Voyager for $14,000 and it was a way more comfortable bike(personal experience). Now here it is just a little over 2 years later and I will be doing the 37,500 mile service next week and the only issue I've had is with getting a little moisture in the clutch system that would freeze when the temps were below 32 and would cause the clutch not to work until the motor got hot enough to melt the ice in the system, but a good flush of the clutch system and all is fine now. Plus, I am still under the factory warranty until February of 2019 and for $700 I can extend it for another 3 years, so I will be under warranty until the bike has over 100,000 miles on it.
Matt Laidlaw Millennials born during the new millennium your generation extra born in the 80s it's very simple. It's the Millennials that can't figure it out.
As a millennial I have to say the only thing stopping me from buying a Harley-Davidson is how ridiculously expensive they are. I’m too tall for the affordable bikes and too broke for the full size bikes.
Just buy a used one. I'm 31, 6'6" tall and ride a 2012 Electra Glide that I purchased used last year for $13k with 14.5k miles. Bone stock and has been a good platform for doing incremental upgrades.
Regarding the price of a Harley-Davidson. At 70 yrs. old I don't consider myself "too old" to buy another Harley. Like many of my friends who have gone over to a trike. (we all know that riding a trike is not like riding a regular motorcycle) I contemplated trading in my 2011 Ultra Classic (18,000mi.) because the wife no longer feels safe on two wheels. Went to the dealer talked numbers and came up with my bike + $25,000. While I love motorcycling I refuse to put that kind of money into a motorcycle. I kept the Ultra and we bought a like new 2014 Mustang Convertible for LESS than 1/2 the cost of a new trike, and NO debt + I still have the Ultra....and we're still in the wind (so to speak) I see guys financing a Harley for 7 to10 YEARS!!! That's insanity. I feel sorry for the current generation that many can't even afford to leave home and support themselves and/or that girlfriend that they moved in to mom and dad's house....but that's another story.
Hey you can always get a trike conversion for that bike for around 3/5k.......and yeah if you have to finance a bike for 7-10 years your gonna pay double for that thing, problem with kids today is they buy clearly what they know they can't afford just to keep up with the Jones'.... If you have to finance it, you can't afford it , put your money away and keep saving. Or just comprimise and buy used, let some other dummy take that hit, back in 2013 we bought a new chevy tahoe ltz $68,000.......never again I told my wife, that truck doesn't even have 35k miles on it now and we will be lucky to get $18k for it........bullshit
@@trentdawg2832 .....I don't mind financing if I can use the manufacturer's money 0%-1.5% (rare) promos. I still have the money in the bank though but why not use 𝙩𝙝𝙚𝙞𝙧 money.
You don't need a new Harley as your first bike. Buy anything you can afford and just start riding. It will add adventure and dimension to your life. Thanks Matt for this thoughtful response.
HA! Greatest song ever written just exactly on this topic: ruclips.net/video/MjJ9Ye8CHfs/видео.html I still tear up everytime I think about the old days... Still haven't got my PanHead yet.. Someday....
Ben Daulton I have my bike at a tuner right now being dyno’d and tuned for $250. HD isn’t the only shop, you need to shop around otherwise don’t complain when you overpay.
I am sorry Matt .... but thee main reason people aren't buying Harley is because of the price plain an simple ... I have a 2009 street bob... I paid for it in 2012 $8999.00.... I can't go to the dealer and get my self in a $22,000 RK....when I know a motorcycle only gonna be good for 5 months of the year .... harley always been expensive BUT NOW it's just way too much money...I just can't justify it....
I bought a 17’ Street glide standard for 20k. Should have came with led everything, security, abs, all the bells and whistles for that much money. The only thing anyone should pay extra for is a bigger engine... everything else aftermarket is on the buyer. (Customization) the price for new Harley is outrageous
Ray Matthews Wait wait wait ....wait up ....wait up.... metrics might of HAD a better engine BEFORE..... not any more.... no metric can go toe to toe with the Milwaukee 8 and that's a fact .... every one knows that and when I said every one in the motorcycle industry knows the Milwaukee engine is a superior engine and let's not fucking argue becuase that's a fact ....Now quality of bike itself metrics NEVER ... EVER.... EVER been on par with Harley.... they didn't come NEAR THE QUALITY OF CRAFTSMANSHIP of the guys in in Milwaukee ... Harley almost never use plastics the way metrics bike use on their bikes ...... SO ILL GIVE YOU THE ENGINE .... they did had a better engine until 2017..... but never had a better quality than American bikes and that's including Indian and victory along with Harley...engine wise today HARLEY has the best engines .... noticed how NOBODY.... NOBODY say shit about Harley anymore .... because.. Harley new engines are up there...so with that said ....There is no way I'll pay $22,000 for anything other than a down payment for a house or a car ... for a motorcycle NO WAY.
Tony Vasconcelos - You are actually wrong, in October 2017, Consumer Reports listed all of the motorcycles on quality, value an reliability, 1 bike was #1 on all 3 categories, the Yamaha Star series cruisers were listed as #1 in Quality, Value, Reliability and cost to maintain. Harley was 2/3 down the list, just above Ducati and Triumph. I am actually looking at picking up a 2018 Harley Heritage Classic 114 for my wife, they are good looking bikes, right now, she has a 2002 Yamaha v star 650 that she got new and loves it, but its time for a new bike. I have a few Indian's, but they are too big for her, the Heritage is ideal, but i agree on the price, they are not worth $20k, but we are planning a big ride this year in June over to South Dakota, then travel Route 66 from Chicago to LA I will have my 2014 Indian Chief Vintage that i just completed stage 1 and stage 2 and she will be on her new 2018 Harley Heritage 114 Should be a fun couple weeks.
I,m 72. I own a 2008 CVO Road King (105th). This bike cost over $31,000.00 in 2008. Way too much money ! I,m also beginning to feel the weight (800 lbs) on my knees. Maintenance is too high and frequent. It is much more dangerous on the road. The road themselves are not maintain like they used to be. People are always in a great hurry. Every time I get on my bike, it is like going on a combat mission. You got to be wary. I,m going to ride until I can,t. Great article!
Drivers on their phones is scaring a whole lot of people away from hitting the road. People texting and driving almost scared me away from my harley purchase. But YOLO
I'm 31 years old. I've been riding for over 13 year on and off. This last time was the big thinker. I pawned it on it for many months whether to get back on a bike or not because my children are getting older this needing me to be a more involved in their lives. So I pondered the risk of getting back on the saddle. I chose to take the risk 4 pure enjoyment in my life for all of the hard work that I do. I cherish that enjoyment all the time that I ride but every second that I am writing I am thinking about the hazards around me
I ride a Harley, and I love it. BUT for the money I wish I would have spent it on a used bike instead. Either way I get my smiles from it and it stays. I know a lot of riders who ride Japanese cruisers that: 1. Out perform 2. Require less maintenance / Longer Intervals 3. Are cheaper MSRP and OTD 4. Dont charge an arm and a leg for parts and accessories that you have to put on as soon as you buy the damn thing. 5. Vulture like dealerships Like I said, I ride Harley, Im not switching and am happy with my bike. But if you cant do something about your prices and dealership culture of having vulture like commission sales people then I'm sorry to see HD go out of business.
I ride a kawi vulcan 900 and you hit the point right on the nose. I payed 3200 for my vulcan. It's in perfectly mint condition with only 9800 miles when I got it. Now I probably could have found a sportster at a similar price, but I'm also aware of hd reliability issue which was another thing that sold me on my bike. If hd can address their reliability issues they'd probably be better off and I probably would have gone after a sportster.
Harley can croak , won't bother me a bit !!! Plenty of great bikes out there !!! I have one !!! Got a loaded 2011 Ducati multistrada with 40.000 miles on it , 6 GRAND !!!!!!! 😄😄😄😄😄😎😎😎😎 turned 81.000 miles last week! !! My last bike 🍺
I had a Kawasaki Vulcan 900 and have ridden all over Australia in it and it was a dream to ride. It was flawless except for one time the stator packed up. I also have a Harley and as most of the population have said, PRICE. Anything you want someone to do something it costs an arm and a leg. Was looking at maybe updating to a new model, but Holy cow look at the prices. Harley needs to really do a true self assessment and also listen to people. PRICE. It's better to sell more bikes at a lower price than hardly any at ridiculously high prices. You can duck and weave and proclaim we are a prestigious brand, but if you don't sell bikes, it means nothing.
@@donjonson9587 I to ride a 900 classic lt paid around the same amount of money and it only had 800 miles on it and it has a blue to speaker, chrome everywhere and white wall tires oh and I forgot one more thing it rides like a dream and it’s very reliable.
I rated riding about 4 years ago. Definitely wanted a Harley, but didn't want plop down $9k for a first bike, so I got a Honda Shadow. I have so much excitement on it, I decided I don't need to spend the extra funds on the Hogs. I've moved on to a Kawasaki Vulcan based on the same reasoning.
You can always rent them, so try that out and see if you want to commit. The kids can do just like most of us, take out school loans and pay them off themselves. I can see to help them out if they go to med school but let them pay for their own education. I did, my kids did, and others have.
Big Poppa NYC excellent choice...I am a bike tech....no need to spend so much more on something not as reliable along with service over twice as everyone else and anything tagged HD with a 300% mark up
If you ever wanted to ride just do it don't wait. Don't say I'll get one when I pay off some bills or ohhh maybe next year. There will always be bills that need to be payed but there won't always be a tomorrow. It's just money. Spend it while your still here and live life. Don't sit around and watch it pass by. This statement isn't just for bikes. It's for anything you want in life.
Matt, you’re a bright guy, but like HD you avoid addressing one of the obvious issue with HDs and that’s pricing. I went into my local dealer thinking I like to trade in my 1200 Sportster for a Softail Slim. I was shocked that the dealer wanted $5,500 over MSRP. I’m sorry, but no way will I pay that. So now I am looking at used. Fortunately there are a lot of garage queens out there. A significant portion of those who buy a Harley end up never riding them and creating good value for those who don’t want to pay ridiculous prices.
@@lurrdluffy yea the dealer markups are insane. Go in and tell them you know what msrp is and to lower the offer, if they dont or give you some “its in high demand” bs just tell them theyre price gouging and leave. They will call you months later with a way better offer for the exact same bike that was “in high demand”
Also dealers need to get off the elitist attitude. Either pay what I want for the bike or get out of the dealership. Harley dealers are killing harley sales with how they approach the buyer when they come to buy a bike.
What a Good Video. I was born in 1950. Started riding in 1964. A 250 Zundapp, then a 650 Triumph, then HD. I got a 2017 S.G.S. in Jan. and Love it. Problem is most young people can't afford a new Motorcycle. So expensive. While I do see some young guys they're few and far between. H.D. needs a few more 6 or 7 thousand dollar bikes and help with financing. All I ever wanted to do was ride Motorcycles, kids today is not like us. Take-Care
I think you are spot on with the price. Also, the "RISK", the later generations are so very risk averse. Think about how we grew up with no bicycle helmets, knee + elbow pads and tons of other safety requirements. Now, you can't do anything just to do it. Motorcycles should be at the forefront of the green movement because they don't pollute as much as cars.
Harley does have a couple bikes in the $6000-$8000 price range new off the showroom floor. One of the biggest problems with them is they are almost always overshadowed by the bigger more expensive models. I am lucky to live in the middle of 2 HD dealerships and during a visit to either one on any given day there are always a ton of the high end bikes and nothing to next to nothing of the HD street bikes or the lower end Sportsters. So for that new rider or guy/gal that wants a Harley and just doesn't have the $15-$20K to drop on a bike, they show up at the HD dealer and find nothing... So off to Honda or another JP brand that has plenty of different bikes in that range and a bunch of different styles too. They also have the $20k+ bikes. I also cannot remember the last time I watched a HD commercial while watching TV. Last weekend I seen a couple Honda commercials advertising the all new Rebel, their line of dirt bikes (all different sizes for everyone in the family) and they also showed off the $50k Goldwing. They made riding look fun and exciting and affordable. My local Honda dealership ALWAYS has the low and mid range bikes in stock with the high end bikes being the exception. Just sayin, HD could market the bikes a bit different... make them look fun (they are) and all the other perks of riding including the great mileage and see if that helps.
Dominic Racca Yea, they could do more. I'm outside of Vegas. We have 3 large dealers here and I hardly ever see young guys in them. I do see some ride them every so often. Take-Care
Dominic Racca: You are so right on that. Also, there is more to it than just having bikes in the price range, there is a huge ‘Bang for the Buck’ problem as well a street 750 (MSRP $7600+) is so stripped down it's barely usable, the Street Rod ($8600+) is actually properly equiped, but not as well as a Kawasaki Vulcan S ($7500) or a Yamaha MT-07 ($7600) both of witch will out perform the Street Rod is every possible way. And that is the least asinine Bike to Dollar comparison between a Metric to an HD.
I cant justify spending $25000 plus on a new bike when I can buy a new truck for 10 grand more and drive it in the snow too. Also if you buy a brand new bike that bike will last you 20 years! Unless you absolutely want the newest models no need to buy a new bike every few years. My Dyna is now 18 years old and still gets the job done. Although thanks to these new Dyna posers my FXDX that books for $5400 is now worth over $10000 according to what dudes are selling Dynas for now. No Harley should cost more than $18000 They aren't worth a penny more. Lower prices = more sales it's simple economics. Harley is now run by buiness men and not bikers like the old days thats the problem. Profits over customers wants or needs.
Vicious Cycles PROFITS !! Over customers needs or wants ! Couldn’t agree with you more ! Maybe it’s time for these GREEDY VULTURES ( not talking about Matt , he’s a cool dood ) on the CEO level to climb down off their high horses ! This is one of the BIGGEST problems in America today , G R E E D. Pay 50k for a CVO ? They can shove that ! Stop blaming Millennials .... Harley needs to start bringing their prices back down to earth ! Within reach .. OR , watch the Metrics & other brands get 80 % of the business !!
Harley’s are priced super high and tend to chase ppl away that aren’t 100% dedicated to buying a Harley. I bought a 2011 FatBoy for a lot more than a similar foreign bike would’ve cost but I knew I wanted a Harley and had to pay the price.
Eddie B. Exactly! Harley’s were made for blue collar and always was a blue collar bike until the 2000’s then it all went down hill. Now bikes are made for doctors and CEO’s that want to go to their first bike week and now the blue collar guy can’t afford or justify buying a new bike.
I don't buy that. The problem is debt. The average American is in enough debt they can barely afford to eat, and it's not by necessity. It's by choice.
In my case I want a 2018 street glide special... But they're almost $25000.. Harley has to drop those prices. But yes heavy restrictions on EVERYTHING. But once again. Harley Davidson will suffer. And if their prices keep increasing into the stratosphere. People just aren't going to buy them.
Everything in life has and will go up in prices every year, not just Harley Davidson. This can go from the auto industry, motorcycles, houses, food, life in general will just keep going up. I also want a 2018 street glide special or road glide special, but then us our selfs are hard headed as well and why not think of getting a 2017 or 2016 model when there cheaper. Is just in us to be hard headed and headed and want the latest and greatest. Harley won’t be the only one to suffer in this world. Everyone will suffer no matter what field you look at. I want a pick up truck, I remember when you were able to get a loaded truck for 35k look at it now, over fucken 60k for a loaded one.
joserubenvega I agree . Look at trucks. For example; 2010 to present-day, a new 2500 diesel is GOINGTO cost anyone About $60,000 and the interiors on these things are in the realm of Mercedes Benz luxury.. it's absolutely insane. Then you have gasoline as well. The pickup truck market is where I notice that most.
Hell, I'll tell you why their sales are declining! It's simple, they have systematically ignored the very people who put them at the top and that's the blue collar man! I've had 4 brand new bikes from 2012 to 2015 and I simply can't afford to buy a new bike anymore. They have gone up in price so high it's ridiculous! I did pay $40,000 for a Screaming Eagle Limited but, after 7 months, the payments were eating me alive and I just couldn't continue on like I was. The average blue collar man is having to pay for a home mortgage, his truck or his wife's car, and if there are kids in the family it's even worse. You used to could buy a Harley and I mean the touring bikes, fix them up with accessories, keep them, pay them off and when you sold it you could make a little profit so you could go buy another new one. Now Harley Davidson has flooded the market with all these new bikes and made getting one so easy with no down payment and a little credit, you are good to go! Anybody can buy a brand new Harley if your credit is approved. Harley owns the bank! Eagle Mark Savings will put you to riding buddy! Just ask Mr. Davidson! People want one so bad, they will make a hasty decision and buy one, keep it a few months or maybe if their lucky, at least a year. Then they turn around and sell them off to someone else and lose their ass off cause they will be lucky to break even. It's a viscious cycle where they are so easy to get but, if you decide you can't afford it any more, wife has a baby, some kind of hardship in your family, the bike is the first thing to go. Nobody wants to buy your bike because for one, you've probably only rode the bike but a few thousand miles or less and nobody wants a used bike with a couple thousand miles on it when they can walk into any dealership and get a new one financed! They blame it on the baby boomers saying they are getting older and they say the younger generation is the crowd they are catering to. The baby boomers are who put Harley on the map! HD stands for hundred dollar! You can't go into any dealership without spending $100 to buy something. Harley is slick! They will build a bike, sell it, and the very next year make some wholesale change to it and if a customer wants to upgrade say his headlight or something else with a new product that just come out, he can't just buy the headlight, they have to buy something else to make the headlight fit. I know because I had a 14 model Streetglide and changed out my headlight and was going to give my stock headlight to a friend that had a bike 2 years older than mine and it wouldn't fit! He would have had to buy a whole new nacell for it to work! Both bikes were Streetglides! I bet there people's garages all around the world with old (almost new) parts they accumalated over the years and can't do anything with them. I didn't mean to rant and rave but, Harley has screwed themselves because that old, old Harley the blue collar man purchased years ago that put Harley into the big time, can't afford a new one. When is the prices gonna stop going upward? I could not see myself buying another new Harley that costs as much as my dam truck!
I don't buy that. The problem is debt. The average American is in enough debt they can barely afford to eat, and it's not by necessity. It's by choice.
@@hondaguy425able My gf and I both bought used Harleys for 10k. Couple months later two of my buddy's got Harleys for less than 12k. This generation ain't buying new bikes. That's why they having bad numbers.
Im a new rider, i love riding. I like all kinds of bikes and i ride an M109R and love it. But here's the thing about motorcycles that i noticed real fast, everything about them is overpriced! I looked at replacing the stock size rims for my bike and the price was crazy! I could put a set of rims on my truck for the bike price of bike wheels. I think Harley Davidson makes nice bikes ,but their prices are dumb high i like the fatboy but its like 18 thousand . For about 4 grand more i can get a Indian Chieftain with a 7inch screen ,nav, remote locking bags,and front windshield control. Its crazy to over pay for a bike and still have to make changes to it.
Here's a real world reason for Harley sales are hurting, this happened right before Christmas. I have a 2014 FLHTK and a friend of mine has a 2001 Electra Glide. He has ridden mine a couple times and wants to up grade to a M8 FLHTK. We went to the dealer to check out the new sleds. they had a 2017 TK with an MSRP of $24,999. He talked to a salesman and started talking a deal. When they sat down the price suddenly changed to $34,000!! Salesman told him that nobody sold them for MSRP. So we left. No deal NO sale. A $9000 markup??? really? Until the Harley Davidson corporation gets a handle on the dealers nothing is going to change. (btw he just picked up a really clean 2015 TK with under 5000 miles for $17,000) I really hope they can get a handle on this because I'm going to retire later this year and want to upgrade to 2018 FLHTKSE CVO, but as of today this ain't gonna happen.
denny thomas i tried to buy a used bike from my local Harley dealer. It was on the website for 12k we talked for a few I tried to get him down a little bc it already had a dealer markup he told me to hold on a minute and went in the back he came back out and said the bike is actually 14k I said it's not and went to pull it back up on their website and dude went in the back and raised the price on the website. Needless to say he got told to go fuck himself.
Vicious Cycles thats just shitty sales tactics. My dealer had my Street Bob on their site for $10,599. When I went to look at it, it had a 12,199 price tag. I told my saleswoman that on the website the price was lower.. She walked to her sales managers office, came out and said I was correct and that they lowered it the day before. Ended up buying it because they were patient and honest with me. Thats not HD's fault that they raised the price on you.. Thats the dealer using shitty tactics. Happens in car sales too.
Mainly HDs problem is marketing. They need to create more contracts with sports league, like UFC and X-Games. You get athletes and celebs on these bikes and they become eye candy to the public. They also need to post sshort videos on RUclips of younger, good looking dudes riding Harleys and picking up chicks. 85% of younger guys that ride motorcycles wanted to because they had thoughts of them with a hot chick on the back. Its the simple stuff that works.
denny thomas Few years back last kid got married and move out , I became a free and decided fulfilled my dream and get a bike , went to HD dealer and Indian dealer with both dealer was denied for over priced bike and some bull crap excuses , went to Japan dealer got me a leftovers Suzuki Hayabusa and Yamaha star 950 for less than one bike price ! Don’t judge for customer appearance!
Well said Matt! I live in Pennsylvania and today we had a break in the weather, the snow is melting and I took my Low Rider out. Twisting that throttle and getting in the wind is my passion. When I twist that throttle and hear those pipes barking I have a permanent smile that cannot be removed with a crowbar. Ride on brothers and sisters. Keep the rubber down and get in the wind!!
For me the reason i dont have a bike ( i want one) is price. How much was a Harley back in its best sales? Now a entry level Harley is $20k. Thats way to much. For a hobby thats just not realistic.
Matt. I'm a 65 year old Honda Gold Wing rider and have been riding motorcycles since 1963, but I must say that was one of the best videos I've seen for the support of motorcycling. Thanks so much! Mike Burdette
HD is dying because young people can’t afford the new bikes that cost the same as a small to midsize car. They do not have the same reliability either. If you buy a used one, it costs an arm and a leg to get it ride ready.
Not always. Theres some very clean low mileage harleys out there for half the price of new one. Buying a brand new one will probably be more costly. And used ones Will have hundreds of dollars of accessories sometimes at no extra cost. You buy new and then theres all kinds of expensive stuff you'll want to go with it. Used isnt always a bad option if you find one thats been takin care of and maintained obviously
My father had an twin cam 88 electra glide standard with 40k on it. No issues at all just changed fluids and all was good. All these "reliability" are from way back. My father and I know quite a few people with harleys and no one has ever had a problem. Main thing though is get what you can afford and like and ride it
were all have ideas why motorcycles are declining, ironically they are declining as they become better, tho one reason regardless of riding back ground were ALL agree...PRICE. reason why macdonalds became a giant was/is price. they make less per unit, but sell a lot. i tried to purchase harleys 3 times, finance programs and the huge markups stopped me every time, shame...
McDonalds is pricing themselves out too. Big Mac, fries and a coke used to cost about $4 5 years ago, now its around $12....... screw them!!! btw I'll keep riding my Honda & do my own maintenance :)
1.Crippling debt. School loans. Lack of disposable income You get out of college and you have a mortgage on your hands. 2. Motorcycle companies do not advertise. Rarely do you see ads on tv unless you are watching motogp or it's a geico insurance commercial. The industry needs to spend money on advertising, cleaning up the motorcycle image, and promoting safe riding ie msf course. You'd be surprised how many people don't know the process of how to get the endorsement . 3. Riding is not for everyone. Never was never will be.
brakes940 I agree especially when it comes to income. Bikes are looked at as boys toys or fun objects and are just a dream/fantasy for most now days with like you said spiraling debt and cost of living always on the increase.
Good video Matt and you hit on a lot of what's wrong with motorcycle sales through out the industry. One thing I see Harley losing sales over is due to their pricing, I mean when a fully loaded Harley cost as much as a fully loaded 4X4 truck well that's just plain crazy. Harley needs to stop and take another look at how much goes into their pockets which I would guess is a major factor in their pricing being so high. I own 3 Harleys at this time and with what I paid for them I could have damn near purchased another house.
We have the same problems here in the UK with dwindling motorcycle sales. When i took my test in the 80's i rode around for a bit and a guy stood on the corner of the street with a clip board! Once you passed you could ride what ever you liked. Now youngsters have to jump through so many hoops just to ride a small machine. Like you say most kids are only interested in computers/smart phones then a car perhaps. Harley don't help themselves though, their bikes are so dam pricey.
mark henry : All true, but more than this it’s a battle to get anywhere in the UK. I envy the open roads in this vid. It’s no fun fighting through traffic.
You made a lot of valid points in your video. From my perspective with regards to Harley Davidson, the company continues to shoot itself in the foot with 2 main reasons; price and perceived poor quality/reliabilty. I have always loved Harleys. My first bike was a 1988 Sportster which I bought new for $3995. I then added a 1997 Buell S1 Lightning which I bought new for around $10k. Then came my 2000 Road King which I also bought new for around $15k. I loved all 3 bikes for the type of riding I used them for; my Sporty was the beginner bike, the Buell was for more spirited riding in the twisties and the Road King was for long distances and touring. Harleys started to become really stupid with their prices when the CVO models started to come out shortly thereafter. Fast forward to 2006 when BMW came out with the K1200 R, a naked sport touring bike with ABS, heated grips, electronic adjustable suspension and an engine putting out a claimed 160 horsepower! And at the time, the K1200R had a very unique look to it. I test rode one in 2007 and fell in love with it. It was fast, comfortable and handled like a dream!! Oh and yes, it has saddle bags and a tail bag. I bought it 7 years after the Road King for about the same price of $15k How can Harley Davidson compete with that?? I still have the latter 3 bikes and still love them in their own right. But most people do not have the luxury of owning 3 motorcycles. So which ONE will the average Joe buy for their money? Unless it's someone who is extremely loyal to an American brand (and there is absolutley nothing wrong with that), it ain’t gonna be the Harley!!! WAKE UP, HARLEY DAVIDSON!!!
i dont need a smart phone ,... i dont need this computer... if i didnt have my Car , i wouldnt have a job... ( i have aTruck, Silverado) if i didnt have my Harley , i wouldnt feel whole! thank u god for allowing me to b able to have my harley , my job and my truck... im a single dad. have been for 13 years. i couldnt wait to put my son on two wheels. we raced dirt bikes till he was 8 years old. he'd still ride if, i had the time to commit to racing. i dont have that luxury. he had no desire to get his license till last year when he turned 18. Evel Knievel made me curious to 'Harley-Davidson' back in the 70's. I want my son and i to ride together on Harleys in STURGIS! God Help Us A-L-L! he has three years b4 he turns 21. WISH ME LUCK! thx for taking time Matt Laidlaw for what u do.
Some points that I believe are missed from the top comments: 1) Stagnant Wages 2) Student Loans (When Millenials end up forking over around 50K to pay their student loans, you can understand that some cuts have to be made) 3) High Rents (Money being transferred from Millenials to Boomers and Xers, less disposable income to spend on other things) 4) Endless legal barriers and bureaucracy (Licensing, Insurance, Additional rules make it costly to own and operate) 5) Learning to ride needs a significant financial and time commitment (Can't learn in your parents' car with them sitting in the passenger seat)
1) 2019 wages are the highest in history - even in inflation adjustment. 2) taking out loans you can't afford to pay back - idiots. 3) rents are only high if you choose to live in a high rent area - move! 4) nothing new here - stop voting for those who promote this. 5) Just buy an inexpensive used bike and ride it. Used V-star 650's are $2k on Craigslist everywhere. 6) stop whining, get a second job and stop expecting life to be handed to you.
access to areas where kids CAN ride without getting hassled by land owners or leo's is very scarce compared to when we rode in the 60s-70s. Not much we can do about it, it is what it is.
It's not so much the cost of a new bike, it's the fact that people don't have the cash flow to be able to own a car and pay rent. My dad was born in 1940 and bought a brand new loaded 65 Impala SS when he was 25... on a teachers salary. I was 35 when I bought my one brand new striped down pickup in 2005 with what is considered a good paying union job. The cost of living VS. wage stagnation in the U.S. since the 1970's has made a huge difference in disposable income, that and the fact that companies almost demand 50-60 hrs. a week from employees and people don't have TIME to even relax and have hobbies. People are getting burned out by employers constantly talking about "better ROI and operating ratio" for the stockholders and ALL hobbies are taking a back seat to people just trying to get by.
Good video, but I'm surprised you didn't mention the actual price of motorcycles. Bikes are way too expensive, especially here in The Netherlands. Just a quick example about a Indian Scout Sixty, if you want to buy it here (don't have a Harley example at hand, but they are expensive too): A Scout Sixty is around $9000, which is around €7350. But, here in The Netherlands, the base price of a Scout Sixty is €14500, which is crazy. For that kind of money, I could get a great used car, which I can use throughout the whole year, so in rain, snow etc. and use it to go on long vacations and take 3-4 people with me. A motorcycle just can't give you that, which makes them hard to sell, especially at these prices here. If you'd want a touring motorcycle here, a good and fairly new one so that you also feel save riding it, so not some old piece of junk, get ready to spend €25k+ ---> Again, it's a crazy amount if you look at what kind of a car you can get for that kind of money. You mention the shift in financial responsibility, but spending 1k or even 2k on a good laptop isn't as life changing as spending 15k on a bike which offers much less than a car. So you'd have to be pretty loaded to buy one if you already own a car or be a HUGE fan to justify your hobby. And THAT'S the reason I think why sales are dropping. Bikes are way too expensive, while most people consider them a hobby. Everything else is also getting more expensive and people are thinking with their brain and not their heart, which I totally get in this situation.
Living in Finland, I totally agree with you. Americans are complaining about the high prices of HDs and bikes in general but goddamnit it's nothing compared to the European pricing. It's basically impossible to get a Dyna for example for under ~13k euros and if you want a new Street Bob or a Fat bob you'll have to pay €20k+. I've been wanting a Harley for a while now (I drive a Yamaha Dragstar now) mainly because their looks appeal to me the most, but I just cannot justify putting over 10k euros and giving my current bike away just to get a 10 year old Dyna. I've been drooling over a 1200 nightster for a few weeks now and time will tell if I'll end up buying it or not. At €10k with my savings and by trading in my current bike the price could be JUST BARELY justifiable.
I think he was right about the shift in financial priorities. The laptop might only be $1-2k but mobile phones are a few hundred too and then you have the ongoing expenses of internet, and data/service provider. When you think about that it is a similar financial commitment to a down payment on a bike and then monthly loan repayments. Maybe if Harley could find a more palatable loan/lease it would encourage more sales. Like having now down payment and rolling the prices of servicing into the repayments.
It's still quite different than paying €40 for your internet connection and stuff. Let's say you buy a bike for €10k and pay €200 every month, it'll take you like 5 years with interest to pay up and that's quite a bit more every month than your regular €40 and what not.
TzeiEm I guess it depends on where you live, what you pay for laptop, phone and Internet/service provider fees and what you pay for a motorcycle. I live in Australia and I pay $1440 P.a for my Mobile plan and Internet. Add to that $1000 for a laptop. I bought my motorcycle for $5500. So if I were to save the money I spend on telecommunications I could buy my bike outright in 3 years. If I get a loan yeah I'm going to be paying more per month or paying it off for like 5 years. After that time though you only have running costs where as phone and Internet will cost you indefinitely.
Damn, that's a lot of money for tele and internet :D But yeah, you got your bike for $5500 which is significantly lower than what Harleys cost and that was one of the key points here (in our conversation, not in the video for some reason). Make it $15000 for the bike and add $1000 P.a for insurances on top of that and it's a whole different story. If all bikes were $5-10k then there wouldn't be as much of a problem.
Matt, I agree with a lot you say. I made an attempt to buy a 2018 street bob. Test ride and loved was absolutely ready to buy. Ran credit and the dealer said my score was 70 points lower than it is. I know because I bought a car a few months before. Anyway, back on topic they offered me a 15% finance rate. 15, lol. I walked. They then called me and said well, we can do 12%. 12 is a joke as well. I really wanted a street bob and knew I wouldn’t be happy with a sportster. They wouldn’t budge on rate so I went and bought an Indian Scout. Yes, power plant it’s equivalent to a 1200 but goobs more power! Oh, btw Indian financed at 5.99. I was primed and ready to buy but Timms Harley-Davidson of Augusta obviously didn’t want my business. Their loss! I’m loving my Scout!
I don't disagree with anything you've said. Great video as always, Matt. I'm solidly in the Gen X generation, so that may put perspective on what I say below. I'd like to know your thoughts on the pre-owned market. While Millennials aren't buying new bikes, the pre-owned market is keeping other dealerships alive because Millennials are buying them. Millennials are also building their own. A quick RUclips search of Cafe Racer showcases the abundance of 35 year old bikes being brought back to life by Millennial builders. A focus on pre-owned and aftermarket parts will keep the industry alive until Millennials can afford new bikes.
What a beautiful and deep video! Being on 2 wheels no matter the brand, is a blessing and the definition of freedom. I myself as a rider thought this was great, thanks for sharing! 🤙
GM MOTO I second that it's the only thing that brings me joy. I have 3 Harley Davidson bikes. I am old enough to afford them but I have been riding 50 years. Mc- road race trail ride I loved it all.
Harley dudes need to start embracing other riders as well. I own a sporty and a klr650. I am glared at if I pull up to place that is packed with Harleys. Im 55. I grew up. A lot of harley riders never left high school.
I have a 2016 Softail Slim S. When I ride with friends, they all ride metric (European and Japanese brands). Each of them has had a negative experience with Harley riders. I have lost respect for Harley as a brand.
Matt’s videos are the only ones on RUclips where I can read the comments without saying “Ok. Let’s just nuke the world. Humanity doesn’t deserve tomorrow.” Thanks for keeping it classy RUclipsrs. Well, 80% classy anyway.
Great video. I think there needs to be an alternative to the HOG chapters so us younger riders can meet up. Every time I ride with HOGs its with older dudes. I have nothing but respect for them but it’s just not fun if you are 20+ years younger than everyone else.
I’m totally with you on this one. I took my first ride with the local HOG chapter this past weekend. Don’t get me wrong they seem like a great bunch of guys and are very welcoming. But I’m not sure I can make it a regular thing.
That is the other big problem with cruiser culture in general, it is typically very old, white and non-inclusive. Sportbike culture is typically much younger and more diverse, but has the problem with squids and aggressive riding.
Matt, I did the same thing. Bought my first motorcycle when I was 15 in the 80s, a 1977 Honda Cr 125. Paid $75.00 for it. Took it apart myself, put new rings, gaskets, honed the cylinder, got it running. Ran that bike off road and on the streets. Where we lived most streets were dirt / asphalt. No licence, not even a helmet. My friends had dirt bikes too. Sometimes we would see a cop and take off into the fields where they couldn't go - rebels lol :)
Matt, I appreciate your view and want to thank you for speaking out in this video. As. A “Boomer”with kids in “Gen X and Millennial “ generations, I kind of feel the love for riding is fading away. My son was neither interested in the military or motorcycle riding. I cut my teeth on both. It hurts my heart to not have these common interests, but it is what it is. After a three decade absence, I am getting back to riding. Unfortunately, I cannot get my son interested in the idea.... Things will work themselves out. In any event, I appreciate your videos. Ride safe
1. Between the music and the soft mono tone voice couldn’t make it past 4:00 without falling asleep. 2. Price: period to much for parts and new anything. 3. The “ American made@ bs. 75% of every part is imported . 4. Reliability. The just are not reliable. 5. Almost all look the same. Mix it up some. Just sayin.
Yeah, but in Captain America the bike they choosen doesn`t even look like Harley, but in the Terminator you only need a glance to know exactly what it is.
Hey Matt, I really appreciate all your wisdom and experience. At this time in my life these videos speak volumes, I’m looking to start riding here soon, all my friends have bikes, thx!
I think Harley Davidson is pricing themselves right out of the Industry!! $40K for a 2018 FLHXSE And the 2018 FLHXSE models are all hideous, eliminating Iconic Chrome and mixing denim paint With regular gloss paint? Sure don’t like the direction!! In fact they don’t even offer a version like they did In 2017 black black and more blacked out?? No thank you I will keep my 2016 FLHXSE forever I guess Harley’s loss .......
TheRooster1122 easy im in my thirties and guess what i hate all the chrome black it out and i hate the sportster i will never buy one so if thats there only affordable bike for us ill choose to go fast instead for my money cause i can get way more bike for my buck
I have owned 5 bikes over my life time, all were Japanese brands because thats what i could comfortably afford. I have always wanted to own a Harley but never will because they cost to damn much. The Japanese bikes do the same for less than half the cost and little to no maintenance. Every new model year i look at the new Harley but reality always kicks in when i see the price and the payments.
The video games, x games and stuff is awsome. One way they could've use the celebrities to boost sales with less criticism. Wouldve been to have the celebrity present the bike to a deserving person maybe. Just my opinion.
I read an article recently that said we’re Xennials (I was born in ‘79). Basically we grew up at a time when things changed from analog to digital. We didn’t have internet as kids, but we did have it before we graduated high school. Basically, we have our feet in both the Gen-X and Millennial generations, which gives a bit of an advantage over both because we can see things from both points of view. I think the biggest barrier is the risk one you talked about. I let family and spouse talk me out of getting a bike until I was 37. Finally said to hell with that, got myself a heritage classic based on your videos and then traded it in for my Road King Special, again, heavily influenced by your video when it was released (I knew I wanted it before it ever showed up at my dealership and I bought it the day after it was put on the floor, Haha). Keep up the awesome videos, brochacho!
Very insightful approach on this topic. Many of your points applied to me. I began riding at a later age once I got over the typical concerns associated with mc ownership ranging from safety to costs concerns. A main influence was my father-in-law who rode throughout his life. I saw a sense of profound happiness and a general love for his Harley. I wanted that, so I tried it. Another point that is probably atypical for most is that I’m a loner. My Harley’s, to me, are my passport to freedom and something that I can experience alone. The biggest hinderance, especially initially, was the cost of getting the bike to look and act the way I wanted it. So I began learning on how to wrench on them. Now, after a few years of riding, I love Harley’s! Thanks for your work on these videos, I appreciate them. Ride safe. Juan Carlos Galiano
JC, I have been snooping around Matt’s RUclips for several years now. At 61, 5 pavement MC incidents (Long Past) bringing on the pavement burns, concussions etc, has me yearning for the lone wolf ride moments you speak of. Politically, Cal is the shit-ziods but geography weather? Is two wheeler heaven. Back when I rode full time Cal. Population was give or take 20 million. These days, over 40 million compete for a space to move about over an infrastructure of roadways in some cases over 35 years old. Potholes here in Kern County can get so bad my Jeep on 33’s damn near bashes my teeth together hitting one at night 60 MPH. I would suggest riding conditions overall to include few to anyone actually paying attention to much around them (Even the cops fittle with their laptops) to the point future cars will become autonomous as so few people wish to keep their heads up paying attention anymore. Living by a H.S. Has me witnessing students ALWAYS head down drooling over their c-phones. Crosswalks, same same. Failure to even look before stepping into the targeted pedestrian. Kern Counties got a BIG Problem with Teens getting smacked around by moving vehicles least once a week. This new way of street survival has me scratching my head wondering exactly how are future driver instructors supposed to teach HORIZON driving skills to “yuts” whom grew up with their heads always down???
Ironically it was also my father in law who got me into riding. I didn't start until I was in my mid 20s and was already married. Though I decided early on that my preference was for sportbikes, though my father in law still keeps trying to get me to buy a Harley.
Gary Bowen I’m very familiar with what you’re describing and it certainly adds to the dangers of being out on the street. People today are so dang distracted and that’s a massive concern. You see them in their vehicles and even while on foot, like zombies, oblivious to what’s happening around them. 🤦🏻♂️
I agree with all your points, couple things I would add is wage stagnation. Think about it. You a get buck raise but your rent goes up 100-200$ every year, in CA registration just went up. 250$ plus a year for your bike reg. There just isn’t enough money at the end of the month for a new bike for most. I think those that are interested in riding look used. I’m 50 most guys my age went to work out of high school these young people today go to college and accumulate huge debt for school. I wonder if this hurts bike sales as well.
Matt as a "Baby Boomers" my wife and I have worked hard and have been at a point in our lives for a long time where we can afford to keep and maintain several bikes along with our cars. As far as the safety aspect goes people get struck by lightning on golf courses. As far as cost goes yes it is a consideration for young people but they will spend $1000 for an IPhone. On the other hand California makes it financially impractical for a lot of people to pay registration and insurance fees.They only knock we have about Harley is clothing prices they are way out of line. I plan to be on two wheels until I am in my 80's and then it is Trike time. Very Deep video keep them coming. Remember 4 wheels move you 2 wheels move the SOUL.
Right there with you brother!! Been riding for almost 50 years now and no plans on stopping, that will happen when I can't hold one up any longer...rediculuous taxes and legislation/regulation are definitely the biggest deterrents and then as Matt stated millenials lack of desire to do things that require thought and effort as opposed to mindlessly sitting in front of a screen...they don't know what they're missin'!! Up to us to change it!!
Andrew Trapani - I agree about the prices on clothes. And what also bothers me is where they are made. My wife got a little Harley pocketbook from a co-worker for Christmas. Both the handbag and the gift bag it came in were labeled Made in China. :(
I really wanna buy an iron 883 even though the price here in China is about $25,000. Unfortunately, riding motorcycles is prohibited in urban areas in my city and Harley is not nimble and fast enough to dodge cops. Meanwhile riding on a bumpy country road is gonna be a butthurt experience. Fuel consumption is close to a Prius C and the gas here is expensive. I am so jealous of you American's motorcycling environment .
Hello, I enjoyed your video. I was born in 1957 and had a mini bike when I was 10 and worked my way up from there, plenty of places to ride back then. I agree with everything You said 100 percent. Thanks 👍
Ricky Bobby i don't think i'm spending that much per km but a new rider in Ontario will spend 5000 for first year insurance for a used harley, i heard of one young guy who spent 10g for his first year on a brand new vrod. I does go down fast about half your second year and by your fourth year of ridding it should be down to about a grand per year. All the people i ride with i hear most of the bitching about insurance, if they ever had to depend on it they probably wouldn't complain that much.
Ricky Bobby ya i don'doubt that, i have nwver had a insurance claim of any kind. It's pretty much a one sided relationship for the last 30 years. Now that i think of it they're not really putting anything into this sham of a relationship. I've been used.
The truth is that Harley makes beautiful bikes! The problem is that they are average bikes that are way overpriced!!!!!! That's the truth! I have nothing against Harley but I would never buy one.
I love the looks of the street bob as well as the slim but I can get a Vulcan for almost half the price! Not as pretty as the Harley but still a good looking bike that's very reliable
I should add that what you are doing with these videos is exactly what needs to be done. Making more people feel welcome in dealers , and interacting with folks.
Btw ; good point mentioning Terminator 2 : I bought a ‘92 fat boy after watching the movie . I think this is when Harley started do make it in other color than the originally military grey ... I also go a sawed off shotgun I remember ! But this was a trend bigger than just the movie : the evolution engines had just came out , the baby boomers were in their 40’s. Mickey Rourke was also big in promoting the Harley culture ...Schott and perfecto jackets were everywhere ...and you were 11!!
Yea. It was bigger than just terminator but you also just reinforced my point with all the other pop culture influencers that were happening at the time. LoL at the shotgun comment.
Bikes (especially H-D) last much longer than they used to. A 20-year old Road King that has been properly serviced has the same value to me as a new one. Yet it costs half as much.
Make Motorcycling Great Again!!! Been street ridin since I was 12. I'm in my 60s and already have 3 HDs but I'd buy another HD if they made an e-bike under $15K. Just sayin...
Tom Dillon I got back it to motorcycling some time time ago. I bought a used Ultra Classic and just as happy There is plenty of choices in the used market.
You did a very good job with your content on this video. This topic of declining motorcycle sales and Harley-Davidson layoffs was something my friends and I recently had a long discussion about because we all ride. When we talked about it, we didn't organize our thoughts as well as you did but, instead, threw out random examples of what we were trying to get across. Organizing your ideas into these three categories and then providing examples, and even some solutions for them like you did was impressive. And, as I listened to you, I realized that I could easily find some examples within my own family/household and my finances that fit all three of your categories that prevent or stop someone from buying a motorcycle and riding. While I certainly agree with your assessment that the addition of computers and smartphones (and the monthly services associated with them) are good examples of shifting financial priorities, I would add another example that is even more costly (at least for me). It's healthcare and insurance associated with it. I'm a bit older than you; I was born in '67 and started my career right out of college in 1990 and have been with the same employer since then. When I started there, I had no monthly health insurance taken out of my check. Every doctor/physical therapy visit was $10 and every prescription was $2. Now, I pay $342 per month for family coverage (my employer contributes twice that amount which I am grateful for), doctor visits are $30, physical therapy is $60 and prescriptions are all over the place. I'm not trying to be political here. I'm just pointing out that these are very good examples of rather large, necessary expenses (or financial priorities), that young people have today that are common, or normal, that simply didn't exist 30 years ago. That's a lot less spending money every month for me, and for the young people who might otherwise be able to buy a nice motorcycle. I know I could afford a nice bike with $342 a month. Anyway, I thought your video was very good. I liked it a lot. Thank you.
relating everything you mentioned. the fact that HD doesn't have that iconic pop culture presence it once did coupled with consumers having information at their finger tips. HD, I believe, has priced itself out of the market. Ive been in the market for a Harley for 5 years. almost bought a Softail but was turned off by how little I was getting for the money. I've bought 3 more motorcycles since and none were a Harley. I was obsessing over a new road glide special. but I just couldn't pull the trigger seeing what Honda and BMW are offering for their touring bikes. could you imagine how much Harley would charge for a bike that was similarly equiped like a GW or a K1600??? people use to say "yeah but those other bikes aren't Harleys". you're right HD is losing more and more people who think like that. it's not good business strategy for HD to lower prices on existing products. what I believe it has to do is keep the prices the same but start introducing new models with more power and tech so as to be competitive. no doubt they are between a rock and a hard place.
The problem is is that the Harley brand is tied to their past. One little change they make that moves away from what they had before will have people running out with their pitchforks. Basically, if Harley adds more tech and whatnot and improves, its not a Harley anymore.
As almost a daily rider, all weather (except ice & snow) for 54 of the last 57 yrs. This is the most well thought out, presentation, from an obviously extremely qualified individual on his view (of which I totally agree with) of the present state of both the motorcycle and the motorcycle market. Well done, and thank you!
Excellent video, and would offer that there are perhaps three adjacent factors in no particular order: stagnant wages for many (the job market is heating up and so now this may change), under-employment by many millennials (this may now also change for the same reason), and poor m/c trade-in values (making for easier trades is an established way for vehicle companies to boost sales volume, as “you have to spend money to make money”).
Totally on point. Very few of my friends ride and most think I'm crazy with all the reckless drivers out there. I got my son a dirt bike to keep him off the tablet. Maybe someday my kids will want to ride with me. Btw...My '18 heritage rocks!!!
I have a 2012 RG dealer changed the trade in price the second time we spoke, then the 2018 model went from 31k to 35k, he dropped the trade in price by 4K. Harley’s are over priced and the dealers think they can just corner you. I will buy a metric bike before I do this deal.
Hello Matt! I bought a used red Harley-Davidson 2002 Road King fireman special! I’m not a very Harley-Davidson experience rider yet but I’m training myself around my neighborhood. I’m a retired in December 1997 from US Marines. When I was in the Marines I dreamt of owning a Harley-Davidson one day. After retirement I started a kids martial arts studio and I own and taught kids after my retirement. During my time of teaching I still have the burning desire of riding and owning one. So after I sold my studio last year I went and bought a used Harley-Davidson May 18, 2020. Anyway i like your channel and I’ve learned a lot from you. Thank you for what you do! Franco
I believe These Motorcycle companies Harley, Indian etc. They need to start pushing more to the younger crowd during these rallies. I go to Sturgis every year, and yeah you have the young girls walking around handing out free stuff. But they need to get current music artist out there, not just the old rock bands and old country singers.
They get the music/artists out there that the people want...when they start wanting the current stuff it will happen...simple...supply and demand...as always!!
I think there is a lot more than that to it personally. For Harley to interest younger folks that previously weren't into bikes, they should make some more modern styled bikes. Now I'm not going into the Harley hate camp here. There's nothing wrong with the current bikes, but I don't see why they can't make some sort of more sporty bike along with the current line. And not just like VRod where it isn't much of a departure. I'm talking super sport bikes. Imagine a Harley styled high power cammed out lopey possibly V4 American styled hot rod that performs in the twisties too and I'd bristling with modern tech. Or even a high powered twin. Look what Harley does with the NHRA. I know they're capable of it. It would be like the corvette of bikes. That and some naked bikes built on the same chassis. That would make Harley far more interesting to a younger audience in my opinion. Certainly would for myself. I wouldn't mind having a big cruiser of their's for long trips, but I have no interest in any of the other bikes Harley makes. Only one that's ever interested me was the VRod, but the way you sit on it is very uncomfortable for me and they only make it one way as far as I could tell. If Harley wants me to be interested, they need to make a bike I'd like to own.
I think price has a lot to do with it but Harley is making strides by offering a few lower priced models but Harley is a premium brand so I don’t see prices coming down and the younger generations just don’t have the disposable income that Baby Boomers seem to have so putting up large amounts of money for a bike isn’t economical for them. In San Francisco the streets are always crowded so I see a lot of younger people on scooters, bicycles and on other motorcycle brands that cost less. Thanks Matt
I'm sitting in an SUV for the price of a Harley, BMW, or Goldwing. For basically the same price, the SUV comes with a metal roof, electric windows, 4 big comfortable seats, air conditioning, keyless entry, 4 wheels and rims plus a spare, 4 doors and handles - so many more parts. Motorcycles, now,, cost way, way too much for what they are - too much to purchase and too much to service in comparison to 4 wheel vehicles. Decades ago, two wheels were poor man's transportation. I have been riding motorcycles since 1963, my first being a 1967 Matchless 750.
The music on this video is so fitting. It sounds almost sad and nostalgic to how things were, just as you’re explaining it. I love my cars and motorcycles.
Harley will go the way of the Buffalo. You cannot live on your laurels of the past. Harleys don't have entry level bikes that are worth anything. I have owned several Harleys in my lifetime but these days if I were to buy a big twin it would be a Kawasaki Vulcan Nomad or even a "thumper" it would a KLR650. Harley cannot compete with Indian, Kawasaki, Suzuki, Yamaha, Honda. Hell they can't compete with Triumph either. Another big twin that beats the pants off Harley is Moto Guzzi. That is why Harley is going to die. And yes, I am a Boomer. I still ride at 69 years old. Lately I have been looking at a Victory Hammer S for my "mid-life crisis." Peace. The "Motorcycle Culture" is rapidly dying.
Moto Guzzi are literally the ugliest bikes in the world for me . If the japanese put the same amount of quality in the paint , chrome and finish in general would cost as much as a Harley . I own tow bike one of them is a Suzuki c50 , i love it very much but the finish quality is very low , left hand side plastic panel fell on the road while I was riding , just an example.
David Bennett Harley owns 50 percent of motorcycle sales in the USA. Your comment makes absolutely no sense. Before my last two Harley’s I had a Kawasaki Vulcan 1500 classic and the rings were finished at 18000 miles. Pure junk.
In my humble opinion Harley Davidson is the reason why their sales are declining. Their arrogance as a company who is selling a “lifestyle“ have failed to read the market. Bikers as you will, aren’t buying new Harley Davidson‘s because they’re unbelievably overpriced! Couple that with when you walk into a dealer these days it’s no better than a used car dealership. Super arrogant and aggressive salesman that don’t care about anything other than charging you 8.99% interest at Harley Davidson credit and thinking you’re too stupid to know the difference. Harley Davidson is their own worst enemy and they will not figure it out until the end up having to file chapter 11. They will be around forever but not in the abundance that they once were. Plus, other motorcycle makers are making amazing bikes for less. In addition, the used motorcycle market is overrun with used motorcycles that have less than 5000 miles. Instead of paying $32,000 for a new Harley I bought a 2016 heritage softail with 4700 miles for 15,000 and that was even over priced in my humble opinion. If you want to ride a motorcycle you should consider a Goldwing, a BMW, and Indian, and the list goes on. If you want to wear a leather jacket with A bunch of stupid patches sewn on because you went to the dealership on Saturday and the lady was there with her sewing machine, well, then buy a Harley. Simply put those who want to pretend to be “bikers“ will buy a Harley. But those who have a brain and willing to be patient who just simply want to ride a quality motorcycle or consider mini other brands and realize that they don’t have to pay $32-$35,000 for a very capable road machine
Back in the mid 60’s I traded a 36 passenger school bus that I converted into a camper for a 650 BSA. The insurance was steep living in Illinois and you were not required to have insurance to get state tags. Our insurance agent got all of the information needed for insurance and told us to give him a call if we got in trouble. I rode for 10 years before moving to Florida and selling the BSA. After retiring and moving to Wisconsin in November of 2013 my wife asked me “When are we getting a Harley?” Needless to say we got a new 2014 XL1200T! Traded it in for a new 2019 FXLR at 78 years young! Just love riding here in Wisconsin! Keep it in our garage during the winter just in case we get a few good days to ride.
Matt I agree with a lot of what you said to a point but @14:00 you start talking about this Sportster revamp and come on thats over a decade ago now. And this is where I feel a lot of the guys in your position just don't get it, and get whats going on with the industry. Most people realize the limit of the Sportster really fast and then feel cheated. In many parts of the country like TX and FL for example where highway traffic is moving at 85 - 90 MPH on a normal day a Sportster just doesn't cut it. You sold a lot of Sportsters but how many of those people did you sell a second bike to? And what has Harley done since then? As someone who started riding when they were 20 and have done so non stop (I'm 30 now), I have 250k miles on bikes. I'm what Harley says they are trying to attract and I have never owned a Harley, I have ridden many and I don't plan on owning one anytime soon. They are making nothing that really appeals. I like the new Fat Bob but once you learn its only 75 HP thats a deal breaker to a lot of people. Harley and industry has a lot of work ahead of them to attract the young riders, but the industry as a whole is not in a bad place. If you look at the Euro brands they keep having record sales year after year as everyone else is having sales declines. Ducati, BMW, Triumph, KTM have all had record sales for the past few years. Why? Because they are making bikes people want. It's as simple as that. Adventure bikes, Scramblers, Super Naked, Sport Touring the list goes on, these are the bikes people want, and they don't want to be ripped off by the cookie cutter designs that have been coming from Japan. I want Harley to succeeded but they need to stop wasting money on advertising and stupid bikes like the street platform. IDK about how it is in CA, but in FL they sell none of them. My brother works in a dealer here in SFL and has yet to see someone buy a street rod or street 750. These are not the bikes people want. Price is also a huge factor because dealers are really beating people up on service and that really has to change because its a huge turn off.
I appreciate the comment and I agree with most of it. I do however always cringe when people knock the horse power of a bike (especially a Fatbob) because this bike is in no way a slow bike. Have you ever even ridden one? I agree about the Sportster. I always try to help people be as realistic as possible about their riding style and preferences. If they are an experienced rider who gets out on the freeway a lot then I always recommend against those bikes. Watch my reviews and you will see KTM does a lot of great stuff and i have owned and ridden their bikes but they have issues as well. They are some of those most unreliable bikes out there. They are always having mechanical issues, leaks, etc. I agree with your comment about the Street. That bike has been very difficult to sell hence the reason for my comment about making it a type of scrambler/flat track style.
If we were talking sport bikes i'd agree but these bikes are cruisers. Horsepower is not the end all when it comes to them. If you're looking at a cruiser, you likely want to cruise and in that vein, torque is more valuable. Not counting the "power cruisers" most guys don't wind out the gears. Seventy-five or 100 hp is good but torque at the bottom end is better given how these bikes are ridden. It's up to the dealer to make sure the buyer knows what to expect. On a side note: jesus christ use paragraphs next time you decide to write up a wall of text.
Matt, I understand what your saying about HP and these bikes but then at the same time Harley shouldn't be saying the Fat Bob can go carve canyons and keep up with a sport bikes as they have or dealers saying it would beat or keep right up with my XDiavel. I have ridden a Fatbob and its a Harley I would consider buying if was just a tad cheaper, but it doesn't have a chance of keeping up with a XDiavel. HP isn’t everything and torque is fun, but at some point in the power band HP has to take over from torque when your getting up in the RPM to keep it fun. And when a lot of people figure out, mostly younger riders that a 114 Harley is making half the power of a much smaller bike (Motor size ) from another brand it can and often is a let down. Big power numbers are in today. I get why Harley is so hesitant to change but I really think they need to look across the pond and take some influence and just make the change because they are quickly loosing my generation and it will be very hard for them to get them to switch to a HD. Of the people I ride with frequently, they are all millennials and not one owns a Harley, we all started on Jap sport bikes and almost everyone has moved to euro bikes and all have left sport bikes. Personally I would like to see a FatBob style of Harley with a more modern frame design (No down tubes or bottom) and a more modern motor, overhead cam, high rev, short stroke. I would be all over something like that and I know a lot of others who would also be.
Actually, considering the value of the inflation-filled dollar these days, motorcycles are very reasonably priced especially in the USA. The main problem IMO is that younger generations are brainwashed by digital crap like video games, computers and cellphones etc. FFS there are hordes of thirty-something guys who are still in their parents' basements gaming in a fantasy world every day of the week (the gaming industry is bigger than the movies). Young people are just not getting out into the great outdoors like they used to and that is a shame, and also bad for their physical and mental health. I've been riding motorcycles steadily for 50 years (currently a Triumph Street Triple R) and it has helped me keep my sanity through some difficult times.
Is there room for both?. I love my gaming, but I love motorcycling and my Harley?. Motorsport is huge in gaming... Make these vehicles, including motorcycle placement in those games, may see an effect like Terminator 2, admittedly that would be immensely hard to match.... I know in Grand Theft Auto, I always gravitated to getting on the bikes, rather than the cars?
Great video. I'm a 58 year old adventure rider and have several dual sport bikes from a BMW Adventure down to a Honda XR650R. I started out in the dirt as a kid in the 70's starting with Honda trail 50s and Suzuki trail hoppers when there were no restrictions as you mentioned. We rode everywhere with little resistance. I love Harleys, they look great sitting in front of a bar, but I like high performance road capability along with the ability to hit a fire road or cross a pass in the Rocky Mountains at any given time. I even road the transamerica trail back in 2007. Again, as you mentioned it was the foundation developed in my youth that made me the rider I am today. Too often I hear the comment "They're organ donor machines" and my reply is, so is that couch and that bag of cheetos your eating! Somewhere we developed this attitude that avoiding all risk was the absolute main goal in life? Most of the organ donor class of riders I see are middle age and older men and women who now have the money to buy a bike and they think that Harley Davidson is the only bike in the world cause they think it will make them finally look cool after all these years, but having little to no experience on any bike they go out and try to keep up with better suited bikes in the mountains and end up going wide on a turn and killing themselves. I can't tell you how many of these people I see these days and they are skewing the statistics against us! As far as price I totally agree that Harley's are too expensive but they are banking on the fanatical brand name recognition of my generation which isn't what it used to be; the younger generation doesn't get the leather clad biker image of the baby boomers who are dying off quickly.
Right on Matt! That was a very thoughful and insightful analysis, and I agree with your conclusions. Most of my family, friends, and colleagues think my priorities are out of whack because they haven't experienced the passion that many of us have for riding. You manage to capture some of that passion in your videos, and this was one of your best. And thanks for the footage that brought back great memories of riding to Julian and eating at the Miner's Diner followed by pie at Julian Pie Co., and even getting fuel at the Mini Mart. Keep it up, brother!!!
Hey Guys thanks for watching and supporting my channel. I always try to answer all comments and questions but sometimes that's impossible. Please checkout my Patreon Page to Support my Harley-Davidson content Creation and become part of that community where I can answer all questions. www.patreon.com/mattlaidlaw
Insurance can be as big of a cost as the bike itself, if not even more. Harleys and other cruisers tend to get a little bit of a break, but still it can be a massive expense. I'd be curious to know how many of the Street models are sold on an annual basis?
Personally, the two 2018 models I like the most are the Deluxe and the Fat Boy 114, mainly because I'm only about 5'7", now, so a low seat height and easy reach to the bars works for me. I remember that H-D offered a Sportster in an 883R, with orange paint and checkered flag graphics, that wasn't overly expensive at the time, and a plain-jane XL1200 with mid controls, and the 3.3 gallon tank. It also had a decently padded 2-up seat. The only downside to me with those models, is that they were both carbureted, which meant lots of tinkering to go from 1300-ft Phoenix to 6500-ft Flagstaff. With the new injected models, it wouldn't a concern, other than having to adjust riding style to match the power losses.
I would also like to know what do you think about the bikes in the 300cc-class for new riders?
Matt Laidlaw o
Uh...I gave up at the (2:30) mark...if you have something to say...THEN SAY IT! "Top 3 Reasons" why Harley is in 'deep shit?' Here are three! $ $ $
There are a couple reasons I did not buy a Harley when bought a new bike in February of 2016, first was the almost $27,000 price tag of the Road Glide Ultra and even more importantly was the fact that there is not enough room on the bike for my 6'3" 280 lb. frame. The fact that I was able to get a new 2015 Kawasaki Voyager for $14,000 and it was a way more comfortable bike(personal experience). Now here it is just a little over 2 years later and I will be doing the 37,500 mile service next week and the only issue I've had is with getting a little moisture in the clutch system that would freeze when the temps were below 32 and would cause the clutch not to work until the motor got hot enough to melt the ice in the system, but a good flush of the clutch system and all is fine now. Plus, I am still under the factory warranty until February of 2019 and for $700 I can extend it for another 3 years, so I will be under warranty until the bike has over 100,000 miles on it.
Matt Laidlaw Millennials born during the new millennium your generation extra born in the 80s it's very simple. It's the Millennials that can't figure it out.
As a millennial I have to say the only thing stopping me from buying a Harley-Davidson is how ridiculously expensive they are. I’m too tall for the affordable bikes and too broke for the full size bikes.
Yea. They are expensive man.
Just buy a used one. I'm 31, 6'6" tall and ride a 2012 Electra Glide that I purchased used last year for $13k with 14.5k miles. Bone stock and has been a good platform for doing incremental upgrades.
David Waite amen!
Ben Daulton sounds like a new rider. less than ten years. like to see how you think about motorcycles in another 5 to ten years
This is it 100%. Harley's are just ridiculously over-priced
Regarding the price of a Harley-Davidson. At 70 yrs. old I don't consider myself "too old" to buy another Harley. Like many of my friends who have gone over to a trike. (we all know that riding a trike is not like riding a regular motorcycle) I contemplated trading in my 2011 Ultra Classic (18,000mi.) because the wife no longer feels safe on two wheels. Went to the dealer talked numbers and came up with my bike + $25,000. While I love motorcycling I refuse to put that kind of money into a motorcycle. I kept the Ultra and we bought a like new 2014 Mustang Convertible for LESS than 1/2 the cost of a new trike, and NO debt + I still have the Ultra....and we're still in the wind (so to speak) I see guys financing a Harley for 7 to10 YEARS!!! That's insanity. I feel sorry for the current generation that many can't even afford to leave home and support themselves and/or that girlfriend that they moved in to mom and dad's house....but that's another story.
I hope I'm ridding when I'm your age sir
God bless you. Keep riding. And ride safe.
Get used
Hey you can always get a trike conversion for that bike for around 3/5k.......and yeah if you have to finance a bike for 7-10 years your gonna pay double for that thing, problem with kids today is they buy clearly what they know they can't afford just to keep up with the Jones'....
If you have to finance it, you can't afford it , put your money away and keep saving. Or just comprimise and buy used, let some other dummy take that hit, back in 2013 we bought a new chevy tahoe ltz $68,000.......never again I told my wife, that truck doesn't even have 35k miles on it now and we will be lucky to get $18k for it........bullshit
@@trentdawg2832 .....I don't mind financing if I can use the manufacturer's money 0%-1.5% (rare) promos. I still have the money in the bank though but why not use 𝙩𝙝𝙚𝙞𝙧 money.
You don't need a new Harley as your first bike. Buy anything you can afford and just start riding. It will add adventure and dimension to your life. Thanks Matt for this thoughtful response.
mchristr agreed!
Will agree with that. First bike I bought is a Yamaha Vstar 650 classic
Yes, absolutely
HA! Greatest song ever written just exactly on this topic: ruclips.net/video/MjJ9Ye8CHfs/видео.html
I still tear up everytime I think about the old days...
Still haven't got my PanHead yet.. Someday....
Me too... but it's a Knucklehead i want
1.Cost
2.Quality
3. Terrible dealer experiences
4.Performance 5.Reliability
#6 engine sumping!
Tell me about it. I lost 4k on a 2 month old 2019 with Stage 3 kit. Sumped after 2 months...@@Itsme-mx5tl
Now with the trade war with China, is that their are going to be better quality knockoffs, that fix the flaws and improves the quality.
Ben Daulton I have my bike at a tuner right now being dyno’d and tuned for $250. HD isn’t the only shop, you need to shop around otherwise don’t complain when you overpay.
I am sorry Matt .... but thee main reason people aren't buying Harley is because of the price plain an simple ... I have a 2009 street bob... I paid for it in 2012 $8999.00.... I can't go to the dealer and get my self in a $22,000 RK....when I know a motorcycle only gonna be good for 5 months of the year .... harley always been expensive BUT NOW it's just way too much money...I just can't justify it....
Tony Vasconcelos so true.. My Harley Dealer rarely has bikes under 7k that are worth anything. 20k for a bike just isn't justifiable to me
Tony Vasconcelos agreed with you on this one
I bought a 17’ Street glide standard for 20k. Should have came with led everything, security, abs, all the bells and whistles for that much money. The only thing anyone should pay extra for is a bigger engine... everything else aftermarket is on the buyer. (Customization) the price for new Harley is outrageous
Ray Matthews
Wait wait wait ....wait up ....wait up.... metrics might of HAD a better engine BEFORE..... not any more.... no metric can go toe to toe with the Milwaukee 8 and that's a fact .... every one knows that and when I said every one in the motorcycle industry knows the Milwaukee engine is a superior engine and let's not fucking argue becuase that's a fact ....Now quality of bike itself metrics NEVER ... EVER.... EVER been on par with Harley.... they didn't come NEAR THE QUALITY OF CRAFTSMANSHIP of the guys in in Milwaukee ... Harley almost never use plastics the way metrics bike use on their bikes ......
SO ILL GIVE YOU THE ENGINE .... they did had a better engine until 2017..... but never had a better quality than American bikes and that's including Indian and victory along with Harley...engine wise today HARLEY has the best engines .... noticed how NOBODY.... NOBODY say shit about Harley anymore .... because.. Harley new engines are up there...so with that said ....There is no way I'll pay $22,000 for anything other than a down payment for a house or a car ... for a motorcycle NO WAY.
Tony Vasconcelos - You are actually wrong, in October 2017, Consumer Reports listed all of the motorcycles on quality, value an reliability, 1 bike was #1 on all 3 categories, the Yamaha Star series cruisers were listed as #1 in Quality, Value, Reliability and cost to maintain.
Harley was 2/3 down the list, just above Ducati and Triumph.
I am actually looking at picking up a 2018 Harley Heritage Classic 114 for my wife, they are good looking bikes, right now, she has a 2002 Yamaha v star 650 that she got new and loves it, but its time for a new bike.
I have a few Indian's, but they are too big for her, the Heritage is ideal, but i agree on the price, they are not worth $20k, but we are planning a big ride this year in June over to South Dakota, then travel Route 66 from Chicago to LA
I will have my 2014 Indian Chief Vintage that i just completed stage 1 and stage 2 and she will be on her new 2018 Harley Heritage 114
Should be a fun couple weeks.
I,m 72. I own a 2008 CVO Road King (105th). This bike cost over $31,000.00 in 2008. Way too much money ! I,m also beginning to feel the weight (800 lbs) on my knees. Maintenance is too high and frequent. It is much more dangerous on the road. The road themselves are not maintain like they used to be. People are always in a great hurry. Every time I get on my bike, it is like going on a combat mission. You got to be wary. I,m going to ride until I can,t. Great article!
Thanks for the
Comment.
Till you get hit by a car.
Yep!
@@paulamundson8657 the only way to ride my friend. Looking at these bikes and wanting one at age 27 can only be a dream..
And cell phones.
Drivers on their phones is scaring a whole lot of people away from hitting the road. People texting and driving almost scared me away from my harley purchase. But YOLO
Normthethird yea I got cut off after 4 months of having my bike. I'm just coming to the conclusion that you can't have nice things.
Guys I second that. It sucks. We now have to choose our roads and rides more carefully. Living here in SE mass it’s more and more cars less free road.
Agreed. There is an epidemic of distracted driving. Still riding all the same.
I'm 31 years old. I've been riding for over 13 year on and off. This last time was the big thinker. I pawned it on it for many months whether to get back on a bike or not because my children are getting older this needing me to be a more involved in their lives. So I pondered the risk of getting back on the saddle. I chose to take the risk 4 pure enjoyment in my life for all of the hard work that I do. I cherish that enjoyment all the time that I ride but every second that I am writing I am thinking about the hazards around me
I ride a Harley, and I love it. BUT for the money I wish I would have spent it on a used bike instead. Either way I get my smiles from it and it stays. I know a lot of riders who ride Japanese cruisers that:
1. Out perform
2. Require less maintenance / Longer Intervals
3. Are cheaper MSRP and OTD
4. Dont charge an arm and a leg for parts and accessories that you have to put on as soon as you buy the damn thing.
5. Vulture like dealerships
Like I said, I ride Harley, Im not switching and am happy with my bike. But if you cant do something about your prices and dealership culture of having vulture like commission sales people then I'm sorry to see HD go out of business.
I ride a kawi vulcan 900 and you hit the point right on the nose. I payed 3200 for my vulcan. It's in perfectly mint condition with only 9800 miles when I got it. Now I probably could have found a sportster at a similar price, but I'm also aware of hd reliability issue which was another thing that sold me on my bike. If hd can address their reliability issues they'd probably be better off and I probably would have gone after a sportster.
Harley can croak , won't bother me a bit !!! Plenty of great bikes out there !!! I have one !!! Got a loaded 2011 Ducati multistrada with 40.000 miles on it , 6 GRAND !!!!!!! 😄😄😄😄😄😎😎😎😎 turned 81.000 miles last week! !! My last bike 🍺
I had a Kawasaki Vulcan 900 and have ridden all over Australia in it and it was a dream to ride. It was flawless except for one time the stator packed up. I also have a Harley and as most of the population have said, PRICE. Anything you want someone to do something it costs an arm and a leg. Was looking at maybe updating to a new model, but Holy cow look at the prices. Harley needs to really do a true self assessment and also listen to people. PRICE. It's better to sell more bikes at a lower price than hardly any at ridiculously high prices. You can duck and weave and proclaim we are a prestigious brand, but if you don't sell bikes, it means nothing.
@@donjonson9587 I to ride a 900 classic lt paid around the same amount of money and it only had 800 miles on it and it has a blue to speaker, chrome everywhere and white wall tires oh and I forgot one more thing it rides like a dream and it’s very reliable.
I rated riding about 4 years ago. Definitely wanted a Harley, but didn't want plop down $9k for a first bike, so I got a Honda Shadow. I have so much excitement on it, I decided I don't need to spend the extra funds on the Hogs. I've moved on to a Kawasaki Vulcan based on the same reasoning.
big poppa just say it...your a harley hater.
johnny white just a realist... once my kids graduate, maybe I can get a preowned dream bike (Ultra). But in the meantime, I’m not sweating it.
dont worry about ya kids graduateing ya might be dead by then.get out there and buy a 2nd hand one now!
You can always rent them, so try that out and see if you want to commit. The kids can do just like most of us, take out school loans and pay them off themselves. I can see to help them out if they go to med school but let them pay for their own education. I did, my kids did, and others have.
Big Poppa NYC excellent choice...I am a bike tech....no need to spend so much more on something not as reliable along with service over twice as everyone else and anything tagged HD with a 300% mark up
If you ever wanted to ride just do it don't wait. Don't say I'll get one when I pay off some bills or ohhh maybe next year. There will always be bills that need to be payed but there won't always be a tomorrow. It's just money. Spend it while your still here and live life. Don't sit around and watch it pass by. This statement isn't just for bikes. It's for anything you want in life.
Well said, that's my train of thought also!
Coal Ryder amen brother! You can always earn more money but you can’t take it with you when you die.
Matt, you’re a bright guy, but like HD you avoid addressing one of the obvious issue with HDs and that’s pricing. I went into my local dealer thinking I like to trade in my 1200 Sportster for a Softail Slim. I was shocked that the dealer wanted $5,500 over MSRP. I’m sorry, but no way will I pay that. So now I am looking at used. Fortunately there are a lot of garage queens out there. A significant portion of those who buy a Harley end up never riding them and creating good value for those who don’t want to pay ridiculous prices.
Marty's Videos I found a 2008 Rocker with only 25 miles on it
5500 over MSRP?Fuck that, I was thinking about switching to Harley but nvm lol
@@lurrdluffy yea the dealer markups are insane. Go in and tell them you know what msrp is and to lower the offer, if they dont or give you some “its in high demand” bs just tell them theyre price gouging and leave. They will call you months later with a way better offer for the exact same bike that was “in high demand”
Also dealers need to get off the elitist attitude. Either pay what I want for the bike or get out of the dealership. Harley dealers are killing harley sales with how they approach the buyer when they come to buy a bike.
What a Good Video. I was born in 1950. Started riding in 1964. A 250 Zundapp, then a 650 Triumph, then HD. I got a 2017 S.G.S. in Jan. and Love it. Problem is most young people can't afford a new Motorcycle. So expensive. While I do see some young guys they're few and far between. H.D. needs a few more 6 or 7 thousand dollar bikes and help with financing. All I ever wanted to do was ride Motorcycles, kids today is not like us. Take-Care
I think you are spot on with the price. Also, the "RISK", the later generations are so very risk averse. Think about how we grew up with no bicycle helmets, knee + elbow pads and tons of other safety requirements. Now, you can't do anything just to do it. Motorcycles should be at the forefront of the green movement because they don't pollute as much as cars.
Harley does have a couple bikes in the $6000-$8000 price range new off the showroom floor. One of the biggest problems with them is they are almost always overshadowed by the bigger more expensive models. I am lucky to live in the middle of 2 HD dealerships and during a visit to either one on any given day there are always a ton of the high end bikes and nothing to next to nothing of the HD street bikes or the lower end Sportsters. So for that new rider or guy/gal that wants a Harley and just doesn't have the $15-$20K to drop on a bike, they show up at the HD dealer and find nothing... So off to Honda or another JP brand that has plenty of different bikes in that range and a bunch of different styles too. They also have the $20k+ bikes. I also cannot remember the last time I watched a HD commercial while watching TV. Last weekend I seen a couple Honda commercials advertising the all new Rebel, their line of dirt bikes (all different sizes for everyone in the family) and they also showed off the $50k Goldwing. They made riding look fun and exciting and affordable. My local Honda dealership ALWAYS has the low and mid range bikes in stock with the high end bikes being the exception. Just sayin, HD could market the bikes a bit different... make them look fun (they are) and all the other perks of riding including the great mileage and see if that helps.
Dominic Racca Yea, they could do more. I'm outside of Vegas. We have 3 large dealers here and I hardly ever see young guys in them. I do see some ride them every so often. Take-Care
Dominic Racca: You are so right on that. Also, there is more to it than just having bikes in the price range, there is a huge ‘Bang for the Buck’ problem as well a street 750 (MSRP $7600+) is so stripped down it's barely usable, the Street Rod ($8600+) is actually properly equiped, but not as well as a Kawasaki Vulcan S ($7500) or a Yamaha MT-07 ($7600) both of witch will out perform the Street Rod is every possible way. And that is the least asinine Bike to Dollar comparison between a Metric to an HD.
those bikes in the 6000 or 8000 range, have no power....LOL
I cant justify spending $25000 plus on a new bike when I can buy a new truck for 10 grand more and drive it in the snow too. Also if you buy a brand new bike that bike will last you 20 years! Unless you absolutely want the newest models no need to buy a new bike every few years. My Dyna is now 18 years old and still gets the job done. Although thanks to these new Dyna posers my FXDX that books for $5400 is now worth over $10000 according to what dudes are selling Dynas for now. No Harley should cost more than $18000 They aren't worth a penny more. Lower prices = more sales it's simple economics. Harley is now run by buiness men and not bikers like the old days thats the problem. Profits over customers wants or needs.
Yea. Your Dyna is worth a lot now my friend.
Vicious Cycles PROFITS !! Over customers needs or wants ! Couldn’t agree with you more ! Maybe it’s time for these GREEDY VULTURES ( not talking about Matt , he’s a cool dood ) on the CEO level to climb down off their high horses !
This is one of the BIGGEST problems in America today , G R E E D.
Pay 50k for a CVO ? They can shove that !
Stop blaming Millennials .... Harley needs to start bringing their prices back down to earth ! Within reach .. OR , watch the Metrics & other brands get 80 % of the business !!
Harley’s are priced super high and tend to chase ppl away that aren’t 100% dedicated to buying a Harley. I bought a 2011 FatBoy for a lot more than a similar foreign bike would’ve cost but I knew I wanted a Harley and had to pay the price.
Amen brother. Amen
Eddie B. Exactly! Harley’s were made for blue collar and always was a blue collar bike until the 2000’s then it all went down hill. Now bikes are made for doctors and CEO’s that want to go to their first bike week and now the blue collar guy can’t afford or justify buying a new bike.
Price. End of story
SAME REASONS FOR ME MATT ; PRICE IS TOO MUCH FOR 2003 H--D TO 2017 H-D .
U.S.M.C.
DENVER FOWLER
@Kid Pistol 27 Plastic products
Quality? Dependability?
I don't buy that. The problem is debt. The average American is in enough debt they can barely afford to eat, and it's not by necessity. It's by choice.
In my case I want a 2018 street glide special... But they're almost $25000.. Harley has to drop those prices. But yes heavy restrictions on EVERYTHING.
But once again. Harley Davidson will suffer. And if their prices keep increasing into the stratosphere. People just aren't going to buy them.
Everything in life has and will go up in prices every year, not just Harley Davidson. This can go from the auto industry, motorcycles, houses, food, life in general will just keep going up. I also want a 2018 street glide special or road glide special, but then us our selfs are hard headed as well and why not think of getting a 2017 or 2016 model when there cheaper. Is just in us to be hard headed and headed and want the latest and greatest. Harley won’t be the only one to suffer in this world. Everyone will suffer no matter what field you look at.
I want a pick up truck, I remember when you were able to get a loaded truck for 35k look at it now, over fucken 60k for a loaded one.
joserubenvega I agree . Look at trucks. For example; 2010 to present-day, a new 2500 diesel is GOINGTO cost anyone About $60,000 and the interiors on these things are in the realm of Mercedes Benz luxury.. it's absolutely insane. Then you have gasoline as well. The pickup truck market is where I notice that most.
MISERSTYLE then the people who assemble them gotta take a big paycut no?
Francisco Martinez no they need to simplify the design. Stop adding bs features that increase cost of production and inhibit owner repair.
As soon as Toyota buys them, they will no longer be made in America
Hell, I'll tell you why their sales are declining! It's simple, they have systematically ignored the very people who put them at the top and that's the blue collar man! I've had 4 brand new bikes from 2012 to 2015 and I simply can't afford to buy a new bike anymore. They have gone up in price so high it's ridiculous! I did pay $40,000 for a Screaming Eagle Limited but, after 7 months, the payments were eating me alive and I just couldn't continue on like I was. The average blue collar man is having to pay for a home mortgage, his truck or his wife's car, and if there are kids in the family it's even worse. You used to could buy a Harley and I mean the touring bikes, fix them up with accessories, keep them, pay them off and when you sold it you could make a little profit so you could go buy another new one. Now Harley Davidson has flooded the market with all these new bikes and made getting one so easy with no down payment and a little credit, you are good to go! Anybody can buy a brand new Harley if your credit is approved. Harley owns the bank! Eagle Mark Savings will put you to riding buddy! Just ask Mr. Davidson! People want one so bad, they will make a hasty decision and buy one, keep it a few months or maybe if their lucky, at least a year. Then they turn around and sell them off to someone else and lose their ass off cause they will be lucky to break even. It's a viscious cycle where they are so easy to get but, if you decide you can't afford it any more, wife has a baby, some kind of hardship in your family, the bike is the first thing to go. Nobody wants to buy your bike because for one, you've probably only rode the bike but a few thousand miles or less and nobody wants a used bike with a couple thousand miles on it when they can walk into any dealership and get a new one financed! They blame it on the baby boomers saying they are getting older and they say the younger generation is the crowd they are catering to. The baby boomers are who put Harley on the map! HD stands for hundred dollar! You can't go into any dealership without spending $100 to buy something. Harley is slick! They will build a bike, sell it, and the very next year make some wholesale change to it and if a customer wants to upgrade say his headlight or something else with a new product that just come out, he can't just buy the headlight, they have to buy something else to make the headlight fit. I know because I had a 14 model Streetglide and changed out my headlight and was going to give my stock headlight to a friend that had a bike 2 years older than mine and it wouldn't fit! He would have had to buy a whole new nacell for it to work! Both bikes were Streetglides! I bet there people's garages all around the world with old (almost new) parts they accumalated over the years and can't do anything with them. I didn't mean to rant and rave but, Harley has screwed themselves because that old, old Harley the blue collar man purchased years ago that put Harley into the big time, can't afford a new one. When is the prices gonna stop going upward? I could not see myself buying another new Harley that costs as much as my dam truck!
They bought more bikes cause they were affordable. Bikes now days costing people 30 grrand
I don't buy that. The problem is debt. The average American is in enough debt they can barely afford to eat, and it's not by necessity. It's by choice.
I think it’s a combination of both.
What a load of bullshit. My XSR700 cost me 8k out the door what the hell are you talking about 30k.
@@johnroe3915 go by a Harley Davidson and you will see.
@@hondaguy425able My gf and I both bought used Harleys for 10k. Couple months later two of my buddy's got Harleys for less than 12k. This generation ain't buying new bikes. That's why they having bad numbers.
Im a new rider, i love riding. I like all kinds of bikes and i ride an M109R and love it. But here's the thing about motorcycles that i noticed real fast, everything about them is overpriced! I looked at replacing the stock size rims for my bike and the price was crazy! I could put a set of rims on my truck for the bike price of bike wheels. I think Harley Davidson makes nice bikes ,but their prices are dumb high i like the fatboy but its like 18 thousand . For about 4 grand more i can get a Indian Chieftain with a 7inch screen ,nav, remote locking bags,and front windshield control. Its crazy to over pay for a bike and still have to make changes to it.
Here's a real world reason for Harley sales are hurting, this happened right before Christmas. I have a 2014 FLHTK and a friend of mine has a 2001 Electra Glide. He has ridden mine a couple times and wants to up grade to a M8 FLHTK. We went to the dealer to check out the new sleds. they had a 2017 TK with an MSRP of $24,999. He talked to a salesman and started talking a deal. When they sat down the price suddenly changed to $34,000!! Salesman told him that nobody sold them for MSRP. So we left. No deal NO sale. A $9000 markup??? really? Until the Harley Davidson corporation gets a handle on the dealers nothing is going to change. (btw he just picked up a really clean 2015 TK with under 5000 miles for $17,000) I really hope they can get a handle on this because I'm going to retire later this year and want to upgrade to 2018 FLHTKSE CVO, but as of today this ain't gonna happen.
denny thomas i tried to buy a used bike from my local Harley dealer. It was on the website for 12k we talked for a few I tried to get him down a little bc it already had a dealer markup he told me to hold on a minute and went in the back he came back out and said the bike is actually 14k I said it's not and went to pull it back up on their website and dude went in the back and raised the price on the website. Needless to say he got told to go fuck himself.
Vicious Cycles thats just shitty sales tactics. My dealer had my Street Bob on their site for $10,599. When I went to look at it, it had a 12,199 price tag. I told my saleswoman that on the website the price was lower.. She walked to her sales managers office, came out and said I was correct and that they lowered it the day before. Ended up buying it because they were patient and honest with me.
Thats not HD's fault that they raised the price on you.. Thats the dealer using shitty tactics. Happens in car sales too.
Mainly HDs problem is marketing. They need to create more contracts with sports league, like UFC and X-Games. You get athletes and celebs on these bikes and they become eye candy to the public. They also need to post sshort videos on RUclips of younger, good looking dudes riding Harleys and picking up chicks. 85% of younger guys that ride motorcycles wanted to because they had thoughts of them with a hot chick on the back.
Its the simple stuff that works.
denny thomas Few years back last kid got married and move out , I became a free and decided fulfilled my dream and get a bike , went to HD dealer and Indian dealer with both dealer was denied for over priced bike and some bull crap excuses , went to Japan dealer got me a leftovers Suzuki Hayabusa and Yamaha star 950 for less than one bike price ! Don’t judge for customer appearance!
Fred Cadillac I have the Yamaha Roadliner S that's a beautiful riding bike and they go pretty cheap used.
Well said Matt! I live in Pennsylvania and today we had a break in the weather, the snow is melting and I took my Low Rider out. Twisting that throttle and getting in the wind is my passion. When I twist that throttle and hear those pipes barking I have a permanent smile that cannot be removed with a crowbar. Ride on brothers and sisters. Keep the rubber down and get in the wind!!
For me the reason i dont have a bike ( i want one) is price. How much was a Harley back in its best sales? Now a entry level Harley is $20k. Thats way to much. For a hobby thats just not realistic.
Entry level Harley 20k? lol, you can pick up a 2018 Sporstster 883 with less than 1k miles on it for $7,500
Ya, you should stay away from bikes and keep playing your video games. Hobby. lmfao
Drive a $3,500 truck, ride a $20,000 Harley-Davidson.
Timothy Hall thats me 26.000 dollar roadglide and a 3500 truck
Of course. Cars are to carry junk not your soul. And soon will be self-driving.
haha
Sounds like the smarter choice! 👌🏻🇺🇸🦅😂
Drive a $4000 truck and daily a $3000 HD. No way in hell I'm spending 20k on a bike, that's just financial stupidity.
Matt. I'm a 65 year old Honda Gold Wing rider and have been riding motorcycles since 1963, but I must say that was one of the best videos I've seen for the support of motorcycling. Thanks so much!
Mike Burdette
Thank you
Thanks for watching.
Mike Burdette agreed. Well done, Matt.
My dad had Gold Wings in the 6th and 70s. My parents went from Boston to The Keys for the honeymoon.
You get it cause you ride.
HD is dying because young people can’t afford the new bikes that cost the same as a small to midsize car. They do not have the same reliability either. If you buy a used one, it costs an arm and a leg to get it ride ready.
Not always. Theres some very clean low mileage harleys out there for half the price of new one. Buying a brand new one will probably be more costly. And used ones Will have hundreds of dollars of accessories sometimes at no extra cost. You buy new and then theres all kinds of expensive stuff you'll want to go with it. Used isnt always a bad option if you find one thats been takin care of and maintained obviously
My father had an twin cam 88 electra glide standard with 40k on it. No issues at all just changed fluids and all was good. All these "reliability" are from way back. My father and I know quite a few people with harleys and no one has ever had a problem. Main thing though is get what you can afford and like and ride it
yeah they are very reliable now and if you want a used one many for 5000-8000
were all have ideas why motorcycles are declining, ironically they are declining as they become better, tho one reason regardless of riding back ground were ALL agree...PRICE.
reason why macdonalds became a giant was/is price. they make less per unit, but sell a lot.
i tried to purchase harleys 3 times, finance programs and the huge markups stopped me every time, shame...
They are not getting better there getting worse just like cars and other stuff
McDonalds is pricing themselves out too. Big Mac, fries and a coke used to cost about $4 5 years ago, now its around $12....... screw them!!! btw I'll keep riding my Honda & do my own maintenance :)
1. $$$
2. $$$
3.$$$
1.Crippling debt. School loans. Lack of disposable income You get out of college and you have a mortgage on your hands.
2. Motorcycle companies do not advertise. Rarely do you see ads on tv unless you are watching motogp or it's a geico insurance commercial.
The industry needs to spend money on advertising, cleaning up the motorcycle image, and promoting safe riding ie msf course.
You'd be surprised how many people don't know the process of how to get the endorsement .
3. Riding is not for everyone. Never was never will be.
brakes940 I agree especially when it comes to income. Bikes are looked at as boys toys or fun objects and are just a dream/fantasy for most now days with like you said spiraling debt and cost of living always on the increase.
Good video Matt and you hit on a lot of what's wrong with motorcycle sales through out the industry. One thing I see Harley losing sales over is due to their pricing, I mean when a fully loaded Harley cost as much as a fully loaded 4X4 truck well that's just plain crazy. Harley needs to stop and take another look at how much goes into their pockets which I would guess is a major factor in their pricing being so high. I own 3 Harleys at this time and with what I paid for them I could have damn near purchased another house.
We have the same problems here in the UK with dwindling motorcycle sales. When i took my test in the 80's i rode around for a bit and a guy stood on the corner of the street with a clip board! Once you passed you could ride what ever you liked. Now youngsters have to jump through so many hoops just to ride a small machine. Like you say most kids are only interested in computers/smart phones then a car perhaps. Harley don't help themselves though, their bikes are so dam pricey.
mark henry : All true, but more than this it’s a battle to get anywhere in the UK. I envy the open roads in this vid. It’s no fun fighting through traffic.
Im 25, from the UK and I ride a Dyna. If I wasn't contracting in Afghanistan there would be no way I could ever afford a Harley. Prices are ridiculous
me too, watching moto vloggers in the USA with long often empty roads and stunning scenery fills me with envy!
You made a lot of valid points in your video. From my perspective with regards to Harley Davidson, the company continues to shoot itself in the foot with 2 main reasons; price and perceived poor quality/reliabilty. I have always loved Harleys. My first bike was a 1988 Sportster which I bought new for $3995. I then added a 1997 Buell S1 Lightning which I bought new for around $10k. Then came my 2000 Road King which I also bought new for around $15k. I loved all 3 bikes for the type of riding I used them for; my Sporty was the beginner bike, the Buell was for more spirited riding in the twisties and the Road King was for long distances and touring. Harleys started to become really stupid with their prices when the CVO models started to come out shortly thereafter. Fast forward to 2006 when BMW came out with the K1200 R, a naked sport touring bike with ABS, heated grips, electronic adjustable suspension and an engine putting out a claimed 160 horsepower! And at the time, the K1200R had a very unique look to it. I test rode one in 2007 and fell in love with it. It was fast, comfortable and handled like a dream!! Oh and yes, it has saddle bags and a tail bag. I bought it 7 years after the Road King for about the same price of $15k How can Harley Davidson compete with that?? I still have the latter 3 bikes and still love them in their own right. But most people do not have the luxury of owning 3 motorcycles. So which ONE will the average Joe buy for their money? Unless it's someone who is extremely loyal to an American brand (and there is absolutley nothing wrong with that), it ain’t gonna be the Harley!!! WAKE UP, HARLEY DAVIDSON!!!
i dont need a smart phone ,...
i dont need this computer...
if i didnt have my Car , i wouldnt have a job... ( i have aTruck, Silverado)
if i didnt have my Harley , i wouldnt feel whole! thank u god for allowing me to b able to have my harley , my job and my truck...
im a single dad. have been for 13 years. i couldnt wait to put my son on two wheels. we raced dirt bikes till he was 8 years old. he'd still ride if, i had the time to commit to racing. i dont have that luxury. he had no desire to get his license till last year when he turned 18. Evel Knievel made me curious to 'Harley-Davidson' back in the 70's. I want my son and i to ride together on Harleys in STURGIS! God Help Us A-L-L! he has three years b4 he turns 21. WISH ME LUCK! thx for taking time Matt Laidlaw for what u do.
Thank you for the peek into your world man. I appreciate the comment.
Jim. I feel the same way. I have two 50s cars, a Viper, a 17 Dodge truck and a 17 S.G.S. I ride my H.D. more that all the cars put together.
Some points that I believe are missed from the top comments:
1) Stagnant Wages
2) Student Loans (When Millenials end up forking over around 50K to pay their student loans, you can understand that some cuts have to be made)
3) High Rents (Money being transferred from Millenials to Boomers and Xers, less disposable income to spend on other things)
4) Endless legal barriers and bureaucracy (Licensing, Insurance, Additional rules make it costly to own and operate)
5) Learning to ride needs a significant financial and time commitment (Can't learn in your parents' car with them sitting in the passenger seat)
Yea agreed. I feel like I did include #4 and 5 though.
1) 2019 wages are the highest in history - even in inflation adjustment.
2) taking out loans you can't afford to pay back - idiots.
3) rents are only high if you choose to live in a high rent area - move!
4) nothing new here - stop voting for those who promote this.
5) Just buy an inexpensive used bike and ride it. Used V-star 650's are $2k on Craigslist everywhere.
6) stop whining, get a second job and stop expecting life to be handed to you.
access to areas where kids CAN ride without getting hassled by land owners or leo's is very scarce compared to when we rode in the 60s-70s. Not much we can do about it, it is what it is.
Agreed
It's not so much the cost of a new bike, it's the fact that people don't have the cash flow to be able to own a car and pay rent. My dad was born in 1940 and bought a brand new loaded 65 Impala SS when he was 25... on a teachers salary. I was 35 when I bought my one brand new striped down pickup in 2005 with what is considered a good paying union job. The cost of living VS. wage stagnation in the U.S. since the 1970's has made a huge difference in disposable income, that and the fact that companies almost demand 50-60 hrs. a week from employees and people don't have TIME to even relax and have hobbies. People are getting burned out by employers constantly talking about "better ROI and operating ratio" for the stockholders and ALL hobbies are taking a back seat to people just trying to get by.
Good video, but I'm surprised you didn't mention the actual price of motorcycles. Bikes are way too expensive, especially here in The Netherlands. Just a quick example about a Indian Scout Sixty, if you want to buy it here (don't have a Harley example at hand, but they are expensive too):
A Scout Sixty is around $9000, which is around €7350. But, here in The Netherlands, the base price of a Scout Sixty is €14500, which is crazy. For that kind of money, I could get a great used car, which I can use throughout the whole year, so in rain, snow etc. and use it to go on long vacations and take 3-4 people with me.
A motorcycle just can't give you that, which makes them hard to sell, especially at these prices here. If you'd want a touring motorcycle here, a good and fairly new one so that you also feel save riding it, so not some old piece of junk, get ready to spend €25k+ ---> Again, it's a crazy amount if you look at what kind of a car you can get for that kind of money.
You mention the shift in financial responsibility, but spending 1k or even 2k on a good laptop isn't as life changing as spending 15k on a bike which offers much less than a car. So you'd have to be pretty loaded to buy one if you already own a car or be a HUGE fan to justify your hobby. And THAT'S the reason I think why sales are dropping. Bikes are way too expensive, while most people consider them a hobby. Everything else is also getting more expensive and people are thinking with their brain and not their heart, which I totally get in this situation.
Living in Finland, I totally agree with you. Americans are complaining about the high prices of HDs and bikes in general but goddamnit it's nothing compared to the European pricing. It's basically impossible to get a Dyna for example for under ~13k euros and if you want a new Street Bob or a Fat bob you'll have to pay €20k+. I've been wanting a Harley for a while now (I drive a Yamaha Dragstar now) mainly because their looks appeal to me the most, but I just cannot justify putting over 10k euros and giving my current bike away just to get a 10 year old Dyna. I've been drooling over a 1200 nightster for a few weeks now and time will tell if I'll end up buying it or not. At €10k with my savings and by trading in my current bike the price could be JUST BARELY justifiable.
I think he was right about the shift in financial priorities.
The laptop might only be $1-2k but mobile phones are a few hundred too and then you have the ongoing expenses of internet, and data/service provider.
When you think about that it is a similar financial commitment to a down payment on a bike and then monthly loan repayments.
Maybe if Harley could find a more palatable loan/lease it would encourage more sales.
Like having now down payment and rolling the prices of servicing into the repayments.
It's still quite different than paying €40 for your internet connection and stuff. Let's say you buy a bike for €10k and pay €200 every month, it'll take you like 5 years with interest to pay up and that's quite a bit more every month than your regular €40 and what not.
TzeiEm I guess it depends on where you live, what you pay for laptop, phone and Internet/service provider fees and what you pay for a motorcycle.
I live in Australia and I pay $1440 P.a for my Mobile plan and Internet. Add to that $1000 for a laptop.
I bought my motorcycle for $5500.
So if I were to save the money I spend on telecommunications I could buy my bike outright in 3 years. If I get a loan yeah I'm going to be paying more per month or paying it off for like 5 years.
After that time though you only have running costs where as phone and Internet will cost you indefinitely.
Damn, that's a lot of money for tele and internet :D But yeah, you got your bike for $5500 which is significantly lower than what Harleys cost and that was one of the key points here (in our conversation, not in the video for some reason). Make it $15000 for the bike and add $1000 P.a for insurances on top of that and it's a whole different story. If all bikes were $5-10k then there wouldn't be as much of a problem.
Matt, I agree with a lot you say. I made an attempt to buy a 2018 street bob. Test ride and loved was absolutely ready to buy. Ran credit and the dealer said my score was 70 points lower than it is. I know because I bought a car a few months before. Anyway, back on topic they offered me a 15% finance rate. 15, lol. I walked. They then called me and said well, we can do 12%. 12 is a joke as well. I really wanted a street bob and knew I wouldn’t be happy with a sportster. They wouldn’t budge on rate so I went and bought an Indian Scout. Yes, power plant it’s equivalent to a 1200 but goobs more power! Oh, btw Indian financed at 5.99. I was primed and ready to buy but Timms Harley-Davidson of Augusta obviously didn’t want my business. Their loss! I’m loving my Scout!
I’m glad you got a bike man. Enjoy. I’m surprised that you got such a better rate at the Indian Dealer
I don't disagree with anything you've said. Great video as always, Matt. I'm solidly in the Gen X generation, so that may put perspective on what I say below. I'd like to know your thoughts on the pre-owned market. While Millennials aren't buying new bikes, the pre-owned market is keeping other dealerships alive because Millennials are buying them. Millennials are also building their own. A quick RUclips search of Cafe Racer showcases the abundance of 35 year old bikes being brought back to life by Millennial builders. A focus on pre-owned and aftermarket parts will keep the industry alive until Millennials can afford new bikes.
Agreed man. There are a lot of Millennials that are carving their own niches into the Motorcycle world. It’s exciting to see.
What a beautiful and deep video! Being on 2 wheels no matter the brand, is a blessing and the definition of freedom. I myself as a rider thought this was great, thanks for sharing! 🤙
GM MOTO I second that it's the only thing that brings me joy. I have 3 Harley Davidson bikes. I am old enough to afford them but I have been riding 50 years. Mc- road race trail ride I loved it all.
Harley dudes need to start embracing other riders as well. I own a sporty and a klr650. I am glared at if I pull up to place that is packed with Harleys. Im 55. I grew up. A lot of harley riders never left high school.
The pompous attitude of Harley riders has pushed me very far away from the brand. I do not want to be associated with those sons of anarchy sheep.
I have a 2016 Softail Slim S. When I ride with friends, they all ride metric (European and Japanese brands). Each of them has had a negative experience with Harley riders. I have lost respect for Harley as a brand.
Matt’s videos are the only ones on RUclips where I can read the comments without saying “Ok. Let’s just nuke the world. Humanity doesn’t deserve tomorrow.” Thanks for keeping it classy RUclipsrs. Well, 80% classy anyway.
Just watched Matt’s lane splitting video. I retract my previous comment. Lol
Harley should have developed the Buell Line...it was a great fun bike..I had two
I have a firebolt and love it.
Most don't get how serious what you said is. America almost had their own sport bike. Hmmmmmm.
It won a championship too, and they dropped it.
Great video. I think there needs to be an alternative to the HOG chapters so us younger riders can meet up. Every time I ride with HOGs its with older dudes. I have nothing but respect for them but it’s just not fun if you are 20+ years younger than everyone else.
You’re the first person I’ve seen bring this up. I see this as a major problem. Thank you for the comment.
I’m totally with you on this one. I took my first ride with the local HOG chapter this past weekend. Don’t get me wrong they seem like a great bunch of guys and are very welcoming. But I’m not sure I can make it a regular thing.
Great video Matt!
That’s exactly why I never joined or rode with any of the HOG chapters. It’s also why I had no interest in going to any HOG rallies.
That is the other big problem with cruiser culture in general, it is typically very old, white and non-inclusive. Sportbike culture is typically much younger and more diverse, but has the problem with squids and aggressive riding.
Matt, I did the same thing. Bought my first motorcycle when I was 15 in the 80s, a 1977 Honda Cr 125. Paid $75.00 for it. Took it apart myself, put new rings, gaskets, honed the cylinder, got it running. Ran that bike off road and on the streets. Where we lived most streets were dirt / asphalt. No licence, not even a helmet. My friends had dirt bikes too. Sometimes we would see a cop and take off into the fields where they couldn't go - rebels lol :)
I love it.
so true!
Hey Matt. You have to do this kind of videos more. The scenery is relaxing. Ride safe.
Gen x/ z is under employed, Harley's are too expensive . That's why !
Matt, I appreciate your view and want to thank you for speaking out in this video. As. A “Boomer”with kids in “Gen X and Millennial “ generations, I kind of feel the love for riding is fading away.
My son was neither interested in the military or motorcycle riding. I cut my teeth on both.
It hurts my heart to not have these common interests, but it is what it is.
After a three decade absence, I am getting back to riding. Unfortunately, I cannot get my son interested in the idea....
Things will work themselves out.
In any event, I appreciate your videos. Ride safe
1. Between the music and the soft mono tone voice couldn’t make it past 4:00 without falling asleep. 2. Price: period to much for parts and new anything. 3. The “ American made@ bs. 75% of every part is imported . 4. Reliability. The just are not reliable. 5. Almost all look the same. Mix it up some. Just sayin.
He said I'm a poor shoestring budgeter nothing like getting looked down at by a failing business
Yeah, but in Captain America the bike they choosen doesn`t even look like Harley, but in the Terminator you only need a glance to know exactly what it is.
Dimitrije Dimitrijevic I think u mean the Avengers in CA was a '42 WLA. And it sure looked like a Harley. In Avengers it was a Sport 750
+Mitch Clyman Yes, you are correct. I made a mistake.
Soft tail slim was in Avengers movie i think
Hey Matt, I really appreciate all your wisdom and experience. At this time in my life these videos speak volumes, I’m looking to start riding here soon, all my friends have bikes, thx!
I think Harley Davidson is pricing themselves right out of the Industry!! $40K for a 2018 FLHXSE
And the 2018 FLHXSE models are all hideous, eliminating Iconic Chrome and mixing denim paint
With regular gloss paint? Sure don’t like the direction!! In fact they don’t even offer a version like they did
In 2017 black black and more blacked out?? No thank you I will keep my 2016 FLHXSE forever I guess
Harley’s loss .......
TheRooster1122 easy im in my thirties and guess what i hate all the chrome black it out and i hate the sportster i will never buy one so if thats there only affordable bike for us ill choose to go fast instead for my money cause i can get way more bike for my buck
Chrome sucks ass...... Literally...... I hear it sucking ass every time I see it......
TheRooster1122 CVO up to 55k in australia.
I have owned 5 bikes over my life time, all were Japanese brands because thats what i could comfortably afford. I have always wanted to own a Harley but never will because they cost to damn much. The Japanese bikes do the same for less than half the cost and little to no maintenance. Every new model year i look at the new Harley but reality always kicks in when i see the price and the payments.
The video games, x games and stuff is awsome. One way they could've use the celebrities to boost sales with less criticism. Wouldve been to have the celebrity present the bike to a deserving person maybe. Just my opinion.
I read an article recently that said we’re Xennials (I was born in ‘79). Basically we grew up at a time when things changed from analog to digital. We didn’t have internet as kids, but we did have it before we graduated high school.
Basically, we have our feet in both the Gen-X and Millennial generations, which gives a bit of an advantage over both because we can see things from both points of view.
I think the biggest barrier is the risk one you talked about. I let family and spouse talk me out of getting a bike until I was 37. Finally said to hell with that, got myself a heritage classic based on your videos and then traded it in for my Road King Special, again, heavily influenced by your video when it was released (I knew I wanted it before it ever showed up at my dealership and I bought it the day after it was put on the floor, Haha).
Keep up the awesome videos, brochacho!
Thanks for sharing. I’m always happy to hear someone say screw it and buy the bike and start enjoying life. Thanks for the comment.
Very insightful approach on this topic. Many of your points applied to me. I began riding at a later age once I got over the typical concerns associated with mc ownership ranging from safety to costs concerns. A main influence was my father-in-law who rode throughout his life. I saw a sense of profound happiness and a general love for his Harley. I wanted that, so I tried it. Another point that is probably atypical for most is that I’m a loner. My Harley’s, to me, are my passport to freedom and something that I can experience alone. The biggest hinderance, especially initially, was the cost of getting the bike to look and act the way I wanted it. So I began learning on how to wrench on them. Now, after a few years of riding, I love Harley’s! Thanks for your work on these videos, I appreciate them. Ride safe. Juan Carlos Galiano
Thanks for the comment my friend. This is exactly along the lines of the point I’m trying to get across.
JC, I have been snooping around Matt’s RUclips for several years now. At 61, 5 pavement MC incidents (Long Past) bringing on the pavement burns, concussions etc, has me yearning for the lone wolf ride moments you speak of. Politically, Cal is the shit-ziods but geography weather? Is two wheeler heaven. Back when I rode full time Cal. Population was give or take 20 million. These days, over 40 million compete for a space to move about over an infrastructure of roadways in some cases over 35 years old. Potholes here in Kern County can get so bad my Jeep on 33’s damn near bashes my teeth together hitting one at night 60 MPH.
I would suggest riding conditions overall to include few to anyone actually paying attention to much around them (Even the cops fittle with their laptops) to the point future cars will become autonomous as so few people wish to keep their heads up paying attention anymore. Living by a H.S. Has me witnessing students ALWAYS head down drooling over their c-phones. Crosswalks, same same. Failure to even look before stepping into the targeted pedestrian. Kern Counties got a BIG Problem with Teens getting smacked around by moving vehicles least once a week.
This new way of street survival has me scratching my head wondering exactly how are future driver instructors supposed to teach HORIZON driving skills to “yuts” whom grew up with their heads always down???
Ironically it was also my father in law who got me into riding. I didn't start until I was in my mid 20s and was already married. Though I decided early on that my preference was for sportbikes, though my father in law still keeps trying to get me to buy a Harley.
mrvwbug44 I’ve often been tempted to get a sports bike but think I might get myself in trouble with all of that instantaneous power! 😁
Gary Bowen I’m very familiar with what you’re describing and it certainly adds to the dangers of being out on the street. People today are so dang distracted and that’s a massive concern. You see them in their vehicles and even while on foot, like zombies, oblivious to what’s happening around them. 🤦🏻♂️
I agree with all your points, couple things I would add is wage stagnation. Think about it. You a get buck raise but your rent goes up 100-200$ every year, in CA registration just went up. 250$ plus a year for your bike reg. There just isn’t enough money at the end of the month for a new bike for most. I think those that are interested in riding look used. I’m 50 most guys my age went to work out of high school these young people today go to college and accumulate huge debt for school. I wonder if this hurts bike sales as well.
Matt Laidlaw for Motorcycle President
how bout cut the spin and hype, and build a great motorcycle, at an affordable price? Harleys are WAY overpriced.
Matt as a "Baby Boomers" my wife and I have worked hard and have been at a point in our lives for a long time where we can afford to keep and maintain several bikes along with our cars. As far as the safety aspect goes people get struck by lightning on golf courses. As far as cost goes yes it is a consideration for young people but they will spend $1000 for an IPhone. On the other hand California makes it financially impractical for a lot of people to pay registration and insurance fees.They only knock we have about Harley is clothing prices they are way out of line. I plan to be on two wheels until I am in my 80's and then it is Trike time. Very Deep video keep them coming. Remember 4 wheels move you 2 wheels move the SOUL.
Thanks for the comment. Enjoy the ride.
Right there with you brother!! Been riding for almost 50 years now and no plans on stopping, that will happen when I can't hold one up any longer...rediculuous taxes and legislation/regulation are definitely the biggest deterrents and then as Matt stated millenials lack of desire to do things that require thought and effort as opposed to mindlessly sitting in front of a screen...they don't know what they're missin'!! Up to us to change it!!
Andrew Trapani - I agree about the prices on clothes. And what also bothers me is where they are made. My wife got a little Harley pocketbook from a co-worker for Christmas. Both the handbag and the gift bag it came in were labeled Made in China.
:(
"four wheels move you, two wheels move the soul" What does "three" wheels do? Lol.
John Scott it makes you extremely cool. Hey I am 64 and believe a trike may be a reality some day
What Harley really needs to do is downscale and put customers before profits.
I really wanna buy an iron 883 even though the price here in China is about $25,000. Unfortunately, riding motorcycles is prohibited in urban areas in my city and Harley is not nimble and fast enough to dodge cops. Meanwhile riding on a bumpy country road is gonna be a butthurt experience. Fuel consumption is close to a Prius C and the gas here is expensive. I am so jealous of you American's motorcycling environment .
Yea. I feel you brother. I have friends that have informed me of the motorcycling scene in China. You have to be very wealthy.
Yiming Lai get a visa and come join the fun!
Hello, I enjoyed your video. I was born in 1957 and had a mini bike when I was 10 and worked my way up from there, plenty of places to ride back then. I agree with everything
You said 100 percent. Thanks 👍
I haven't watched the vid yet but in canada its the insurance companies ruining the ride.
Ricky Bobby i don't think i'm spending that much per km but a new rider in Ontario will spend 5000 for first year insurance for a used harley, i heard of one young guy who spent 10g for his first year on a brand new vrod. I does go down fast about half your second year and by your fourth year of ridding it should be down to about a grand per year. All the people i ride with i hear most of the bitching about insurance, if they ever had to depend on it they probably wouldn't complain that much.
Ricky Bobby ya i don'doubt that, i have nwver had a insurance claim of any kind. It's pretty much a one sided relationship for the last 30 years. Now that i think of it they're not really putting anything into this sham of a relationship. I've been used.
Agreed the manufacturer should go after the insurance companies but then again if that was too happen we'd all be riding effin E bikes
The truth is that Harley makes beautiful bikes! The problem is that they are average bikes that are way overpriced!!!!!! That's the truth! I have nothing against Harley but I would never buy one.
So if you were to buy a Harley which one would you choose and at what price would you be willing to pay?
I love the looks of the street bob as well as the slim but I can get a Vulcan for almost half the price! Not as pretty as the Harley but still a good looking bike that's very reliable
05 RG not one problem!!!! Love my HD!!
Plus they let you lane split in california, kind have to with all the crazy traffic,
It's funny how Matt only likes the comments which are not talking about Harleys being overpriced ... heh
I should add that what you are doing with these videos is exactly what needs to be done. Making more people feel welcome in dealers , and interacting with folks.
Btw ; good point mentioning Terminator 2 : I bought a ‘92 fat boy after watching the movie . I think this is when Harley started do make it in other color than the originally military grey ... I also go a sawed off shotgun I remember !
But this was a trend bigger than just the movie : the evolution engines had just came out , the baby boomers were in their 40’s. Mickey Rourke was also big in promoting the Harley culture ...Schott and perfecto jackets were everywhere ...and you were 11!!
Yea. It was bigger than just terminator but you also just reinforced my point with all the other pop culture influencers that were happening at the time. LoL at the shotgun comment.
Bikes (especially H-D) last much longer than they used to.
A 20-year old Road King that has been properly serviced has the same value to me as a new one.
Yet it costs half as much.
Make Motorcycling Great Again!!! Been street ridin since I was 12. I'm in my 60s and already have 3 HDs but I'd buy another HD if they made an e-bike under $15K. Just sayin...
Tom Dillon I got back it to motorcycling some time time ago.
I bought a used Ultra Classic and just as happy
There is plenty of choices in the used market.
You did a very good job with your content on this video. This topic of declining motorcycle sales and Harley-Davidson layoffs was something my friends and I recently had a long discussion about because we all ride. When we talked about it, we didn't organize our thoughts as well as you did but, instead, threw out random examples of what we were trying to get across. Organizing your ideas into these three categories and then providing examples, and even some solutions for them like you did was impressive. And, as I listened to you, I realized that I could easily find some examples within my own family/household and my finances that fit all three of your categories that prevent or stop someone from buying a motorcycle and riding. While I certainly agree with your assessment that the addition of computers and smartphones (and the monthly services associated with them) are good examples of shifting financial priorities, I would add another example that is even more costly (at least for me). It's healthcare and insurance associated with it. I'm a bit older than you; I was born in '67 and started my career right out of college in 1990 and have been with the same employer since then. When I started there, I had no monthly health insurance taken out of my check. Every doctor/physical therapy visit was $10 and every prescription was $2. Now, I pay $342 per month for family coverage (my employer contributes twice that amount which I am grateful for), doctor visits are $30, physical therapy is $60 and prescriptions are all over the place. I'm not trying to be political here. I'm just pointing out that these are very good examples of rather large, necessary expenses (or financial priorities), that young people have today that are common, or normal, that simply didn't exist 30 years ago. That's a lot less spending money every month for me, and for the young people who might otherwise be able to buy a nice motorcycle. I know I could afford a nice bike with $342 a month. Anyway, I thought your video was very good. I liked it a lot. Thank you.
relating everything you mentioned. the fact that HD doesn't have that iconic pop culture presence it once did coupled with consumers having information at their finger tips. HD, I believe, has priced itself out of the market. Ive been in the market for a Harley for 5 years. almost bought a Softail but was turned off by how little I was getting for the money. I've bought 3 more motorcycles since and none were a Harley. I was obsessing over a new road glide special. but I just couldn't pull the trigger seeing what Honda and BMW are offering for their touring bikes. could you imagine how much Harley would charge for a bike that was similarly equiped like a GW or a K1600???
people use to say "yeah but those other bikes aren't Harleys". you're right HD is losing more and more people who think like that.
it's not good business strategy for HD to lower prices on existing products. what I believe it has to do is keep the prices the same but start introducing new models with more power and tech so as to be competitive. no doubt they are between a rock and a hard place.
The problem is is that the Harley brand is tied to their past. One little change they make that moves away from what they had before will have people running out with their pitchforks. Basically, if Harley adds more tech and whatnot and improves, its not a Harley anymore.
As almost a daily rider, all weather (except ice & snow) for 54 of the last 57 yrs. This is the most well thought out, presentation, from an obviously extremely qualified individual on his view (of which I totally agree with) of the present state of both the motorcycle and the motorcycle market. Well done, and thank you!
Excellent video, and would offer that there are perhaps three adjacent factors in no particular order: stagnant wages for many (the job market is heating up and so now this may change), under-employment by many millennials (this may now also change for the same reason), and poor m/c trade-in values (making for easier trades is an established way for vehicle companies to boost sales volume, as “you have to spend money to make money”).
Good video. I agree with most of what you said. But tell me why mc sales are declining in the USA but growing in Europe?
Dealer labor cost too high, 500+ for my iron 883 first service
Wat. My Kawasaki dealer (the only brand this dealer carries) just to me to do it myself, lol. Oil change and check some stuff.
It isn’t that people don’t want ride they do. They don’t want to 20,000$ to 55,000$ for a bike
Totally on point. Very few of my friends ride and most think I'm crazy with all the reckless drivers out there. I got my son a dirt bike to keep him off the tablet. Maybe someday my kids will want to ride with me. Btw...My '18 heritage rocks!!!
Great choice on bike. I love the new Heritage. Thanks for the comment.
my son and I ride together on flsts bikes. we are so lucky to have those. riding with him is my joy of all. like looking at myself right beside me.
I have a 2012 RG dealer changed the trade in price the second time we spoke, then the 2018 model went from 31k to 35k, he dropped the trade in price by 4K. Harley’s are over priced and the dealers think they can just corner you. I will buy a metric bike before I do this deal.
Harley's biggest problem is Yamaha, Honda, Kawasaki, Suzuki, BMW, Ducati, Triumph and KTM.
Hello Matt! I bought a used red Harley-Davidson 2002 Road King fireman special! I’m not a very Harley-Davidson experience rider yet but I’m training myself around my neighborhood. I’m a retired in December 1997 from US Marines. When I was in the Marines I dreamt of owning a Harley-Davidson one day. After retirement I started a kids martial arts studio and I own and taught kids after my retirement. During my time of teaching I still have the burning desire of riding and owning one. So after I sold my studio last year I went and bought a used Harley-Davidson May 18, 2020. Anyway i like your channel and I’ve learned a lot from you. Thank you for what you do!
Franco
I believe These Motorcycle companies Harley, Indian etc. They need to start pushing more to the younger crowd during these rallies. I go to Sturgis every year, and yeah you have the young girls walking around handing out free stuff. But they need to get current music artist out there, not just the old rock bands and old country singers.
Yup. I feel the same.
They get the music/artists out there that the people want...when they start wanting the current stuff it will happen...simple...supply and demand...as always!!
I'm sure there is a demand they just aren't there.
I think there is a lot more than that to it personally. For Harley to interest younger folks that previously weren't into bikes, they should make some more modern styled bikes. Now I'm not going into the Harley hate camp here. There's nothing wrong with the current bikes, but I don't see why they can't make some sort of more sporty bike along with the current line. And not just like VRod where it isn't much of a departure. I'm talking super sport bikes. Imagine a Harley styled high power cammed out lopey possibly V4 American styled hot rod that performs in the twisties too and I'd bristling with modern tech. Or even a high powered twin. Look what Harley does with the NHRA. I know they're capable of it. It would be like the corvette of bikes. That and some naked bikes built on the same chassis. That would make Harley far more interesting to a younger audience in my opinion. Certainly would for myself. I wouldn't mind having a big cruiser of their's for long trips, but I have no interest in any of the other bikes Harley makes. Only one that's ever interested me was the VRod, but the way you sit on it is very uncomfortable for me and they only make it one way as far as I could tell. If Harley wants me to be interested, they need to make a bike I'd like to own.
I think price has a lot to do with it but Harley is making strides by offering a few lower priced models but Harley is a premium brand so I don’t see prices coming down and the younger generations just don’t have the disposable income that Baby Boomers seem to have so putting up large amounts of money for a bike isn’t economical for them. In San Francisco the streets are always crowded so I see a lot of younger people on scooters, bicycles and on other motorcycle brands that cost less. Thanks Matt
I'd buy a harley but im not paying as much as a car to get one. Thats why i got an fz 09 instead
I always need the token FZ owner in the comments of all my videos.
rode about a dozen harleys last summer, only liked the lowrider S, but not paying 20+ for it
Why buying new harley when old harley bikes makes even better riding experience and cheaper?
I'm sitting in an SUV for the price of a Harley, BMW, or Goldwing. For basically the same price, the SUV comes with a metal roof, electric windows, 4 big comfortable seats, air conditioning, keyless entry, 4 wheels and rims plus a spare, 4 doors and handles - so many more parts. Motorcycles, now,, cost way, way too much for what they are - too much to purchase and too much to service in comparison to 4 wheel vehicles. Decades ago, two wheels were poor man's transportation. I have been riding motorcycles since 1963, my first being a 1967 Matchless 750.
I get the same satisfaction on my 750 Honda Shadow Aero...without bankrupting me. Do I want a Harley? Sure, but not at these prices!
lose the music. it sounds like the soundtrack from a 60's western
The music on this video is so fitting. It sounds almost sad and nostalgic to how things were, just as you’re explaining it. I love my cars and motorcycles.
25 yrs old, with a 2019 street glide special 🤙🏻 #millenial
When I’m on the road.Just me and my bike .. absolutely no gadgets.Harley needs to keep it raw.
Harley will go the way of the Buffalo. You cannot live on your laurels of the past. Harleys don't have entry level bikes that are worth anything. I have owned several Harleys in my lifetime but these days if I were to buy a big twin it would be a Kawasaki Vulcan Nomad or even a "thumper" it would a KLR650. Harley cannot compete with Indian, Kawasaki, Suzuki, Yamaha, Honda. Hell they can't compete with Triumph either. Another big twin that beats the pants off Harley is Moto Guzzi. That is why Harley is going to die. And yes, I am a Boomer. I still ride at 69 years old. Lately I have been looking at a Victory Hammer S for my "mid-life crisis." Peace. The "Motorcycle Culture" is rapidly dying.
Moto Guzzi are literally the ugliest bikes in the world for me . If the japanese put the same amount of quality in the paint , chrome and finish in general would cost as much as a Harley . I own tow bike one of them is a Suzuki c50 , i love it very much but the finish quality is very low , left hand side plastic panel fell on the road while I was riding , just an example.
Crixy M You do realise that Moto Guzzi is Italian and not Japanese?
David Bennett Harley owns 50 percent of motorcycle sales in the USA. Your comment makes absolutely no sense. Before my last two Harley’s I had a Kawasaki Vulcan 1500 classic and the rings were finished at 18000 miles. Pure junk.
Kawasakis always had the faster engine. as far as reliable: ugghhh! and FR -you ARE an a-hole, haha!
In my humble opinion Harley Davidson is the reason why their sales are declining. Their arrogance as a company who is selling a “lifestyle“ have failed to read the market. Bikers as you will, aren’t buying new Harley Davidson‘s because they’re unbelievably overpriced! Couple that with when you walk into a dealer these days it’s no better than a used car dealership. Super arrogant and aggressive salesman that don’t care about anything other than charging you 8.99% interest at Harley Davidson credit and thinking you’re too stupid to know the difference. Harley Davidson is their own worst enemy and they will not figure it out until the end up having to file chapter 11. They will be around forever but not in the abundance that they once were. Plus, other motorcycle makers are making amazing bikes for less. In addition, the used motorcycle market is overrun with used motorcycles that have less than 5000 miles. Instead of paying $32,000 for a new Harley I bought a 2016 heritage softail with 4700 miles for 15,000 and that was even over priced in my humble opinion.
If you want to ride a motorcycle you should consider a Goldwing, a BMW, and Indian, and the list goes on. If you want to wear a leather jacket with A bunch of stupid patches sewn on because you went to the dealership on Saturday and the lady was there with her sewing machine, well, then buy a Harley. Simply put those who want to pretend to be “bikers“ will buy a Harley. But those who have a brain and willing to be patient who just simply want to ride a quality motorcycle or consider mini other brands and realize that they don’t have to pay $32-$35,000 for a very capable road machine
Indians sales are not declining !!!
Back in the mid 60’s I traded a 36 passenger school bus that I converted into a camper for a 650 BSA. The insurance was steep living in Illinois and you were not required to have insurance to get state tags. Our insurance agent got all of the information needed for insurance and told us to give him a call if we got in trouble. I rode for 10 years before moving to Florida and selling the BSA.
After retiring and moving to Wisconsin in November of 2013 my wife asked me “When are we getting a Harley?” Needless to say we got a new 2014 XL1200T! Traded it in for a new 2019 FXLR at 78 years young! Just love riding here in Wisconsin! Keep it in our garage during the winter just in case we get a few good days to ride.
HD needs to bring back lower cc bikes is 500 for entry level market JMO.
They already did. Look up street 500. XG500.
Yeah I don’t know why Harley never though of that!!! Haha
flyingrv6 They did. There is a 500 and a 750.
Matt I agree with a lot of what you said to a point but @14:00 you start talking about this Sportster revamp and come on thats over a decade ago now. And this is where I feel a lot of the guys in your position just don't get it, and get whats going on with the industry. Most people realize the limit of the Sportster really fast and then feel cheated. In many parts of the country like TX and FL for example where highway traffic is moving at 85 - 90 MPH on a normal day a Sportster just doesn't cut it. You sold a lot of Sportsters but how many of those people did you sell a second bike to? And what has Harley done since then? As someone who started riding when they were 20 and have done so non stop (I'm 30 now), I have 250k miles on bikes. I'm what Harley says they are trying to attract and I have never owned a Harley, I have ridden many and I don't plan on owning one anytime soon. They are making nothing that really appeals. I like the new Fat Bob but once you learn its only 75 HP thats a deal breaker to a lot of people. Harley and industry has a lot of work ahead of them to attract the young riders, but the industry as a whole is not in a bad place. If you look at the Euro brands they keep having record sales year after year as everyone else is having sales declines. Ducati, BMW, Triumph, KTM have all had record sales for the past few years. Why? Because they are making bikes people want. It's as simple as that. Adventure bikes, Scramblers, Super Naked, Sport Touring the list goes on, these are the bikes people want, and they don't want to be ripped off by the cookie cutter designs that have been coming from Japan. I want Harley to succeeded but they need to stop wasting money on advertising and stupid bikes like the street platform. IDK about how it is in CA, but in FL they sell none of them. My brother works in a dealer here in SFL and has yet to see someone buy a street rod or street 750. These are not the bikes people want. Price is also a huge factor because dealers are really beating people up on service and that really has to change because its a huge turn off.
I appreciate the comment and I agree with most of it.
I do however always cringe when people knock the horse power of a bike (especially a Fatbob) because this bike is in no way a slow bike. Have you ever even ridden one?
I agree about the Sportster. I always try to help people be as realistic as possible about their riding style and preferences. If they are an experienced rider who gets out on the freeway a lot then I always recommend against those bikes. Watch my reviews and you will see
KTM does a lot of great stuff and i have owned and ridden their bikes but they have issues as well. They are some of those most unreliable bikes out there. They are always having mechanical issues, leaks, etc.
I agree with your comment about the Street. That bike has been very difficult to sell hence the reason for my comment about making it a type of scrambler/flat track style.
If we were talking sport bikes i'd agree but these bikes are cruisers. Horsepower is not the end all when it comes to them. If you're looking at a cruiser, you likely want to cruise and in that vein, torque is more valuable.
Not counting the "power cruisers" most guys don't wind out the gears. Seventy-five or 100 hp is good but torque at the bottom end is better given how these bikes are ridden. It's up to the dealer to make sure the buyer knows what to expect.
On a side note: jesus christ use paragraphs next time you decide to write up a wall of text.
Matt, I understand what your saying about HP and these bikes but then at the same time Harley shouldn't be saying the Fat Bob can go carve canyons and keep up with a sport bikes as they have or dealers saying it would beat or keep right up with my XDiavel. I have ridden a Fatbob and its a Harley I would consider buying if was just a tad cheaper, but it doesn't have a chance of keeping up with a XDiavel.
HP isn’t everything and torque is fun, but at some point in the power band HP has to take over from torque when your getting up in the RPM to keep it fun.
And when a lot of people figure out, mostly younger riders that a 114 Harley is making half the power of a much smaller bike (Motor size ) from another brand it can and often is a let down. Big power numbers are in today.
I get why Harley is so hesitant to change but I really think they need to look across the pond and take some influence and just make the change because they are quickly loosing my generation and it will be very hard for them to get them to switch to a HD.
Of the people I ride with frequently, they are all millennials and not one owns a Harley, we all started on Jap sport bikes and almost everyone has moved to euro bikes and all have left sport bikes.
Personally I would like to see a FatBob style of Harley with a more modern frame design (No down tubes or bottom) and a more modern motor, overhead cam, high rev, short stroke. I would be all over something like that and I know a lot of others who would also be.
Actually, considering the value of the inflation-filled dollar these days, motorcycles are very reasonably priced especially in the USA. The main problem IMO is that younger generations are brainwashed by digital crap like video games, computers and cellphones etc. FFS there are hordes of thirty-something guys who are still in their parents' basements gaming in a fantasy world every day of the week (the gaming industry is bigger than the movies). Young people are just not getting out into the great outdoors like they used to and that is a shame, and also bad for their physical and mental health. I've been riding motorcycles steadily for 50 years (currently a Triumph Street Triple R) and it has helped me keep my sanity through some difficult times.
Well said my friend. Thank you for the comment.
Is there room for both?. I love my gaming, but I love motorcycling and my Harley?. Motorsport is huge in gaming... Make these vehicles, including motorcycle placement in those games, may see an effect like Terminator 2, admittedly that would be immensely hard to match.... I know in Grand Theft Auto, I always gravitated to getting on the bikes, rather than the cars?
Great video. I'm a 58 year old adventure rider and have several dual sport bikes from a BMW Adventure down to a Honda XR650R. I started out in the dirt as a kid in the 70's starting with Honda trail 50s and Suzuki trail hoppers when there were no restrictions as you mentioned. We rode everywhere with little resistance. I love Harleys, they look great sitting in front of a bar, but I like high performance road capability along with the ability to hit a fire road or cross a pass in the Rocky Mountains at any given time. I even road the transamerica trail back in 2007. Again, as you mentioned it was the foundation developed in my youth that made me the rider I am today. Too often I hear the comment "They're organ donor machines" and my reply is, so is that couch and that bag of cheetos your eating! Somewhere we developed this attitude that avoiding all risk was the absolute main goal in life? Most of the organ donor class of riders I see are middle age and older men and women who now have the money to buy a bike and they think that Harley Davidson is the only bike in the world cause they think it will make them finally look cool after all these years, but having little to no experience on any bike they go out and try to keep up with better suited bikes in the mountains and end up going wide on a turn and killing themselves. I can't tell you how many of these people I see these days and they are skewing the statistics against us! As far as price I totally agree that Harley's are too expensive but they are banking on the fanatical brand name recognition of my generation which isn't what it used to be; the younger generation doesn't get the leather clad biker image of the baby boomers who are dying off quickly.
Price and image...only people riding new harleys are people i don't have any interest in hanging out with
Right on Matt! That was a very thoughful and insightful analysis, and I agree with your conclusions. Most of my family, friends, and colleagues think my priorities are out of whack because they haven't experienced the passion that many of us have for riding. You manage to capture some of that passion in your videos, and this was one of your best. And thanks for the footage that brought back great memories of riding to Julian and eating at the Miner's Diner followed by pie at Julian Pie Co., and even getting fuel at the Mini Mart. Keep it up, brother!!!
I think your priorities are right in line my friend.