There are so many used Harleys available that it didn’t make much sense to keep offering entry level bikes. so they decided to focus on the upper level models. We’ll see how that works out. Theysuffer from their own success.
@@michaelgorman5748 , from and article on "the Motley Fool" "But the history books seem to have gotten it wrong. The tariffs actually did little to help Harley-Davidson survive, though they likely did cost some workers their jobs and raised costs for consumers. What actually saved Harley-Davidson was Harley-Davidson." Now you know the rest of the story.
Im not a millennial, as I'm 51, but I was looking for a new bike and decided to look at the Harleys. I found one that I liked and asked a salesman about it. He shot a smart comment at me about the high price and noted that he's not going to waste his time with someone that can't afford it. That right there killed any chance of me ever buying a Harley ever. I ended up getting a BMW M1000RR and I couldn't be more happy. If Harley wants to sell, they might want to clean up the sales staff just a little.
Same happened to me in a Yamaha dealership. The sales girl swiped me from top to bottom while I was looking at a Bolt in display. She said to me: Don't even look at it, you clearly can not afford it" I looked at her in disbelief and walked out of there.
@@Bikerbear0585 yeah, crazy huh! Talk about judging a book by a cover. They got this belief that people that have money, look like they do in Hollywood. Unfortunately for them, that is not the case. I'm happy as hell that I didn't get one of their Harleys now. I couldn't be any more happier with my M1000RR. Damn that thing's fast! She probably did you a favor in the long run.
That’s rare. Where I live, the Harley sales staff has bent over backwards to sell me a bike. The problem is they are just too expensive. There are many other awesome bikes for much less money.
Well I own two motorcycles. A Ducati and a Suzuki. I don't own a car or truck and two bikes is still cheaper than one car or truck so I don't consider them luxury items.
That's why so many women will tell you that they love motorcycles, but if it's not a Harley they will turn their nose up at you. Reason is exactly that: it's a luxury item and a status statement and tells them that you can (theoretically) afford them too. THAT'S what they're looking for...
The problem with Harley Davidson is they used to be a motorcycle company who also made T-shirts. Today, they're a T-shirt company that also makes motorcycles. R.I.P.
@@bryananderson4988 Not a Harley I don't. But I have been coast to coast on a motorcycle 6 times. Only a fool would even try to do that on a Harley. Today, my present ride is a Can Am Spider R/T limited which is Canadian made and I wouldn't hesitate to take it cross country. It's also about the same price as a Harley.
Harley has fallen into the same catch 22 trap as Levi's. The fewer they sell the more they have to charge. The more they charge the fewer they sell. I walked into a clothing shop the other day and was utterly shocked to see an £120 price tag on a pair of Levi's 501 jeans. I walked a few doors down into another shop and paid £20 for a nearly identical, just as good quality, jeans without the brand logo. Vanity is a very expensive mistress!!!.
A gold wing cost more than a road gluid. That b.s Harleys are too expensive comes from comparing bottom tear jap bikes to top tear Harleys. Rather than top tear jap bikes to top Harleys or bottom teat Harleys to top tear jap bikes
I'm a millennial (40) and I considered a Harley. I really liked the road king. My dad always wanted a Harley. My uncle, his brother, road Harleys. So there would be something about carrying on that tradition that appeals to me. At the end of the day, I couldn't justify it. The dealerships all felt like used car lots with ridiculously inflated prices. The BMW 1250 GS had so much more to offer for a similar price and with my BMW dealership, what you see is what you get. No BS Market adjustments, markup, assembly fees, etc. The price online is what I paid. Even aside from the price, the Harley just couldn't compete. My 1250 GS adventure has heated grips, electronically adjustable suspension, Cruise control, traction control, Customizable ride modes, TFT with Bluetooth connectivity, an 8 gallon tank, tons of top end power, and on and on. The Harleys selling point was basically "come on. It's a Harley."
the price of a new road glide in Indonesia is even 1.16 billion IDR. That's the same as 75,000 USD. I even have difficulty calculating the zeros on my calculator. So the main requirement for having one here is that you have to be very rich. 
I always wanted a Harley for the same reasons you mentioned, knowing many older family members who rode Harley’s but when it came time to get a bike of my own…it just wasn’t feasible. The money was most definitely a factor but another massive factor was why am I paying for 1943 technology at 2143 prices? There’s so many other options and choices at that price point (and cheaper) that catch my attention. I ended up with an Italian Harley instead, a Moto Guzzi, and it’s a lot of fun plus a real head turner with classy looks. Plus, the shaft drive makes it practically a get in and go bike that will take you anywhere at any time. More time riding and less time fiddling with chains, aligning the rear wheel, etc. One day I’d still love to have a Harley but it’s not a priority anymore at this point. They’ve priced themselves way out of reach for me to much care
I was also on one for about 7 years. I had bad knees, and I had trouble getting on and off, but I loved the bike. It also had several potential high mileage problems, so I parted with it and got an F800GT, which was much lower and easier for me to get on and off. I put 77,000 miles on it in 4.5 years and then went on to the Sportster.
Living in Italy, I see many beautiful motorcycles, including a lot of Harleys. The point is that Harleys are not only expensive but also not practical. Riding a 350 kg beast through mountain passes isn’t satisfying, and maneuvering a bike as wide as a small car through traffic on the way to work is inconvenient. Then, I look at Triumphs and understand that when a brand wants to evolve while staying true to its heritage, it finds a way.
As a gen-Xer, I actually ended up getting an Italian bike instead of a Harley. Very simply, Moto-Guzzi offers a similar product at a much better price and that is what I went with.
Millenial here. When I started college in 2011, I had a Kawvasaki Vulcan 800. O loved it. Harley guys at meets called it a "rice burner" and told me to get a real man's bike. When I got old enough and had a bigger checking account, I decided not to be a part of that world and get a triumph rocket. Harley and their culture created this whole issue. Now they gotta lay on it
Yeah. When they come to bars they're blaring Chris Stapleton, and rev their motors. Come into the bar, and act like they run the joint. Drives the women out of the bar.
The only bikers that do not " nod" at me when I'm on my bike are HD riders and those that have just started riding in their middle age, I've been riding 44years since I was 16.
Ditto me, starting in 1970 on a funky little Trail 90 with the centrifugal clutch. Not long ago, someone on a loud-pipe Fatboy or some such thing saw my oncoming flat-six timing cover, (rather conspicuous on a Valkyrie) and gave me the middle finger. No doubt he was one of those fire-breathing, flag-waving patriots who could talk the talk but not walk the walk, resentful that almost any large-bore rice-burner could run away from him with almost zero effort.
As a young Gen X'er I'm considerably worse off than my boomer parents, so I can only imagine how bad it is for Millennials. I started riding bikes *because* I wanted a Harley. Not anymore. I can't relate to the brand, the style, and definitely not the price. As a consequence, I drifted away from cruisers and now I'd rather have a Japanese naked, and my aspirational bike is now a sport touring. Hell, at this point, for the price of a Harley I can buy two of them.
@@Iniquityslasher Nice try, boomer. I'm a biochemist, work for big pharma. Do Harley pay simps per comment or are you just sore I hurt the fee fees of daddy's brand?
I'm a retired mechanical engineer - that gives me an appreciation for good engineering design, something H-D doesn't have. All their offerings (except for the Pan America) are simply tweaks on an archaic design. "Style"???? Right out of the 50s. Start with a clean sheet of paper, look at the Japanese and European offerings, an learn something.
I'm a young gen-x myself and have owned a couple of HDs, but won't buy another one. I appreciate the style, but even I have a hard time discerning models anymore. Putting a different front and rear fender on something doesn't make it a different model. I ride a victory now, which started and ended with better engineering than HD, especially in the motors. Indian is continuing that after they closed the victory brand. My next bike likely to be a sport touring model though, just wish that anyone other than bmw still made one. If HD put the diversity of of a Pan-America in a touring chassis, I'd consider it. I have extremely little optimism that they'll do it though.
How many Founding Father quotations does modern education give the younger generation? “And I sincerely believe with you, that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies; and that the principle of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale.” “Bank-paper must be suppressed, and the circulating medium must be restored to the nation to whom it belongs.” “I wish it were possible to obtain a single amendment to our constitution. I would be willing to depend on that alone for the reduction of the administration of our government to the genuine principles of its constitution; I mean an additional article, taking from the federal government the power of borrowing.” -Thomas Jefferson “Paper money has had the effect in your state that it will ever have, to ruin commerce, oppress the honest, and open the door to every species of fraud and injustice.” -George Washington “All the perplexities, confusion and distress in America arise, not from defects in their Constitution or Confederation, not from want of honor or virtue, so much as from the downright ignorance of the nature of coin, credit and circulation.” -John Adams
I’m a baby boomer and have owned nearly 30 bikes, mostly Triumphs and Ducatis. I’ve never found a Harley I was interested in owning, and don’t expect that to change. The old adage about yesterday’s technology at tomorrow’s prices always rang true with me.
I met a senior fella recently at a local service station riding a scooter that showed interest in my gsxr. After which he rattled off about 10 different sport/sport touring bikes he'd owned over the years. Seriously thought to myself what a legend. If all he can handle riding now is a scooter, it's still better than any HD. Millennial myself, the circles I move in, general consensus is HDs are a pile of 🐕 💩. I might be ignorant of their history but as a brand they've given me no reason to display any interest.
Same here, but a Gen X'er, currently riding a Triumph Street Triple RS. Have owned a lot of bikes, and the only HD's I was ever interested in were the Bronx (which was never brought to market), and the XR1200 (until I rode one). The Indian FTR1200 is the closest thing to anything HD makes that I'm even slightly interest in, and after riding one on a demo ride (yawn), I've determined that the Triumph I already have is a WAY better bike, and cost $8k less. So yeah. If HD goes away, it's their own fault.
Older millennial, and I can admire the fine craftsmanship of Harley Davidsons. However, I can also admire the fine craftsmanship of Rembrandt in a museum either for free or at a very low charge.
Wow look at you with the philosophical approach and what not or what have you! 😂 you read a book and you just gotta tell everyone you meet don’t you? 😂 jkjk have a great one ser… 😅
@Ultra1036speed Harleys still won't go, stop, or turn. They have crap tires, crap brakes, crap suspension, crap geometry, flexy frames and forks, crap ergonomics, impotent engines, agricultural transmissions, rubber-mounted everything, and that stupid zero-lash rubber-band final drive. They're dog slow, handle like a sinking oil tanker, and the brakes are terrible.
@@DortonFarbWhat a load of bullshit. My dad has all kinds of motorcycles from Harley’s to Ducatis to old ass Moto Guzzi BMW’s and on and on. His Harley’s ride fucking fine 😂 You people who pick and choose brands are clowns.
Millennial here - during the summer of 2020 I was 34 and spending my time at home researching toys to treat myself too when the world to returned to a bit of normalcy. I grew up on the back of my dad's 81 Low Rider and I have been on Moto Guzzis for 20 years. I was all ready to go lay myoney down on a new Bronx and then at the end of that summer Harley gave it the ax and told me they didn't want me as a customer. I went with a new 2020 Triumph Speed Twin in the spring of 21 and never looked back.
H-D could have been where Triumph is now. Triumph has some really nice budget friendly models. As long as they built Sportsters, they should have been well under $10k. Why can't H-D build a bike like Triumph's 400 Scrambler x?
@jbeery004. That is the biggest problem Harley has, they have failed to understand the post boomer generations. I am Gen X myself and they lost me when I was a teen.
You nailed it with this video. Overweight, overpriced, dealer attitude and rider culture will keep me away from Harley even though I could afford one. Many Japanese and European brands to consider instead.
You should rent one some time and go on a trip. That weight you've been brainwashed to hate makes them uber composed and comfy. I've owned and traveled on most brands and there is a reason that HD sells so many baggers. Light is great if you're road racing or motocrossing, but not so great in a cross wind at interstate speeds.
My wife and I went to our nearest Harley Davidson dealer to buy a new 883 Sportster about 10 years ago. What we found was a nice selection of motorcycles that all had price tags showing at least $2k over factory retail and most had a few chrome accessory items that drove the prices up even higher. They had a 5 year old 883 Sportster in the used bikes that I liked too, but it was priced at exactly the MSRP of a new 883 Sportster. When I spoke to a salesman, he immediately let me know that all prices were firm, take it or leave it. We left on the same Kawasaki Ninja we came in on and never wasted our time our theirs after that.
Its been awhile since I looked into bikes but I'm happy to see that the strategy of selling yesterday's technology at tomorrows prices is alive and well at this company
Personally, I ride because I love the feeling of being one with my machine and flying free down the road. I don't ride to look cool. Harley feels like more of a fashion statement than a passion for riding.
Exactly, I just ride to have that freedom of riding because it's a great and relaxing feeling all in itself and there's NOTHING else like it at all. I chose a motorcycle that I like ALOT and that suits me and that's that and I'm NOT trying to impress anyone whatsoever!
have you ever ridden a harley? if you're into cruisers there's no other cruiser that feels as badass as a harley. i've rode honda's, yamaha's, victory's and indians and harleys are a cut above in making you feel the exhilaration of a motorcycle. the jap cruisers and even indian/victory feel like imitations.. it sucks that harleys are $20k+ new and not many people can afford that but there's nothing else like them and hopefully they start offering affordable options that aren't tiny sportsters because it would be a shame if they went away or become completely unobtainable
I agree with you! Too many people out there these days with inflated egos gatekeeping. I've seen guys aggressively insulting someone else's bike or an accessory on said bike because they thought it was dumb, as though that person they were insulting got the bike purely for someone else to enjoy. I say shut up and mind your own business. I dress the way I do and ride what I like because it is for ME, nobody else.
You summed up why I still haven't purchased a Harley after over 40 years on 2 wheels... Price and attitude. Twice in the last 2 years I have been only a signature away from buying an HD, only to walk away because the value just wasn't there in my opinion.
About a year ago I sat down to deal on a Street Glide and the first thing they asked for was 4 references. What the hell? I left and will never return to an H-D dealership to even just to browse.
You should have given Honda, Yamaha, Kawasaki and Suzuki as your 4 references. Been riding for over 50 years and never owned a Harley. I've driven 3 in that time. One was actually a 65cc 2 stroke Harley branded Benelli, one the owner had a stroke and I drove it home for them, and the third one, the owner who was a friend of my cousins friend died and I drove it half way across the country to where his sister, who got it in the will, lived. That was last February in at and below freezing temperatures with no windshield, no heated anything, loud pipes, radically raked front forks (chopper) and forward foot controls. I also put in a new battery and rear tire to make it road worthy. None of his Biker Buddies would do it, they wanted the bike for themselves. Oh and I don't live in the same state as they do neither. Good video!
If the references is the biggest issue I do apologize, most people have 4 friends, and these are just for credit purposes and will never actually be contacted, unless you were to default on your loan
@@chrisdexter3451 *Asking for forgiveness is easier than asking for permission.* Any dealer that asks for 4 personal references as soon as everyone sits down is either working for a jerk of a dealership or is one themselves. I don't know who you are but apologies don't make up for unethical business practices. *F Harley dealerships and the Harleys they ride on.*
I got yelled at over a comment I made to a Harley guy. He was talking about how lucky he was to finally find a Harley mechanic that he could trust and depend on. I commented that I did not need a good mechanic because I drive a Honda.
I've been to my local Harley dealership multiple times, and the sales staff (and the grizzled old guys who just hang out there) were all nice and polite. It's too bad buying a Harley has never crossed my mind. Working class millennials like myself can't possibly afford it. That dealership just happens to be our local Royal Enfield distributor and I'm buying one of those instead.
I'm 40, you hit the nail on the head. Owner and dealership attitudes soured me on HDs, even though they're beautiful bikes. When I was a kid, a Road King style motorcycle popped into my head when I thought of a motorcycle. I learned to ride in my early 20s on a beat up 1980 Kawasaki LTD 1000. The decade I spent riding that bike, I got lots of comments from old heads on HDs about "when are you gonna buy a REAL BIKE?". It was also usually the HD riders that wouldn't wave back to me since I obviously wasn't on a REAL BIKE. I was taught how to ride by an old head biker I worked with, but he rode a modified Yamaha VMax. Those attitudes chased me around for years, discouraging me from going to meets and group rides. I would just ride around alone. Fast forward to 2014 and I was looking to buy a brand new bike. I looked at Road Kings since they were a childhood fixture for me, but I got attitude from the sales people at my local HD dealership about finally upgrading to a REAL BIKE. Cue Triumph. I always liked their bikes, but I wanted a big cruiser, and up until then, they didn't have much in that vein besides the America, and it wasn't all that interesting to me. That year, they launched the Thunderbird LT and I was in love with it. It was cheaper than a Road King, but had the same look, and already came factory equipped with crash bars, highway pegs, a taller windshield, white-walls, spoke wheels, and beautiful paintwork. However, even when I went to my local Triumph dealership, they were a multi-brand dealership that also sold HDs and the salesman was obviously disinterested in selling me a Triumph. He had almost nothing to say about the bike while I was looking at it in the showroom. When I asked for a test ride, he said sure, let me show you around while we get the bike pulled out and ready for you. We immediately went into the HD showroom and he talked for almost 20 minutes about the new Project Rushmore HDs with the new at the time infotainment systems. I ended up buying the Triumph and love the bike, but I never went back to that dealership. I service my bike myself and I didn't have any warranty problems with my Triumph. I'm not in the market to replace my Thunderbird, but if I were, I'd go straight back to Triumph and buy the Speedmaster. Even though it's a smaller bike that my Thunderbird, it's still a looker. I'd kit it out similar to my Thunderbird, with bags, crash bars, and a windshield. Harley-Davidson just isn't on my radar and probably never will be at this point in my life.
Same thing happened to me. Lived in Australia at the time and owned a 1980 GSX1100 (loved that bike) but was looking at a buell to just change it up. Went to the dealership and there's the attitude on full display. "Oh I had one of those old GS's once, but like you I wanted a real bike." kind of bull roar. Turned right around and left.
Motorcyclists should have a lot in common, including a love of all things mechanical. It used to irritate me that Harley riders would never return a friendly wave from a sport bike rider. At first I thought it was snobbery, but eventually concluded they're just embarrassed to be seen on an overweight, poor-handling bike with a 1950s-era engine.
"Harley riders would never return a friendly wave from a sport bike rider" I've been riding Harleys and Buells for 15 years and I've never heard or seen that sentiment.
A guy I worked with rides his Sportster to our monthly luncheon. When he saw my Triumph Bonneville, he said “That’s almost a Harley.” I laughed. Lots of non riders think they have something important to say to owners/riders of non HD riders. I enjoy having a reliable, oil tight, easy to maintain and paid off Triumph.
as a 40 year old who just learned how to ride a motorcycle this year, I too had the distaste for the harley brand elitism that typically accompanies the bikes. When I was shopping for a bike I did look at a few at a dealership but the large bike just didn't appeal to me. After looking at several styles of bikes I ended up with a Royal Enfield Interceptor. It fits my needs extremely well and has a style and a price that fits me. If I were to end up buying a Harley at this point it would be something from the 50s-80s, I do also Daily drive a 1967 C20 that I've had now for 17 years.
I am 83 years old and still ride my 2002 Road King that I bough new for around $17,000. Harleys are heavy, but when you are rolling it doesn't seem to be a problem. I love it. But I agree, the main problem with the Harleys is the price.
Yea I’m 19, I make $30,000 a year so when a new Harley is $20,000+ I’m not going to be getting one anytime soon. I got my klx 230 dual sport new for $5000 a couple years ago as my first bike.
Definitely agree, for the price of a 2023 Sportster, I can get both a brand new Yamaha Mt-07, which is a blast to ride, and an YZF- 250, if I want to do motocross. Or I can get one and a Sea-doo, an ATV, a used car, or simply save the money. On top of that, I’m 23, I have my own place fully owned, am paid well, but I still feel the effect of inflation, food, gas, clothing, basically everything it takes to live is so expensive. So I’m not saving up to buy an Harley, but get little pleasures more often, and I’ll probably get a CB500 or a scooter for around the town, which cost a lot less.
The KTM is a good bike, you did just fine. Houses have gotten stupid expensive. Millennials need affordable houses. I am fortunate and bought each of my kids a house years ago when they were cheap and rented them until my kids were ready for a house. I don't know how millenials even survive in this messed up economy.
I agree. The culture has shifted out from under them, and not enough people are good earners. Plus, to some extent the outlaw image can be had with blue hair dye a couple of piercings. The whole inked and in leathers thing has just become common place. The statement about riding Harley because you value freedom is drown out by a lot of modern noise.
Sells of new bikes may be down, but lots of young people are buying used Harleys. They are doing some amazing stuff with them. Check out East Coastin Crew, Kruesi stunt team, C Bear, to name a few.
I've had a Honda and a Harley. The Harley is far better for touring. If you want to race around in the fetal position, buy a crotch rocket. If you want to see the country in comfort, buy a Harley.
@@joejunior1974 Which Harley? OMG, you slick out a sporty and they can be back killers over long distance. My surgery can attest. But the road king (bought a year after surgery) was sweeeeet in so many ways.
@TheGreenHeartofItaly-fl3wv Lowrider ST. Harleys have so many aftermarket parts that you can transform them to fit your needs. I have an aftermarket seat, floorboards, pullback risers, and rockford fosgate audio system. I love this bike! Totally comfortable for long rides, and still lots of power and looks awesome!
@JD-vl5yh I love my vrod, harley guys call it a lady bike until I take off and they can't keep up 😂 I also love my r1. I don't know if I'm a harley guy or rice rocket guy, I just call myself someone who loves motorcycles and think the stigmatism against other bikes is childish and those people need to grow tf up. Different strokes I guess.
@@SickSensei223 My best bud let me try his before. That's the only cruiser I've had that much fun on in my life. Wouldn't buy one but I can at least appreciate the appeal. The only current thing I've seen of their lineup I'd like to sit on is a Pan America. Kinda looks like a vacuum cleaner from the front but also 80s cool. I doubt it'd do much for me after owning an Africa Twin but who knows.
Being one from the millennial generation. I have always wanted a Harley personally. I have almost bought a brand new Harley several times in recent years. The dealers and their sales tactics trying to overcharge over msrp and other fees has turned me away everytime.
that's one thing people forget about. yea that price tag might say 13k but once you've bought it. and the fees are added that bike is closer to 15k out the door
Dude just go to an independent bike dealership. For example I went to Ol' Reds in Simpsonville SC and bought my HD Street Glide from them. It was 6 years old with low miles and I got me the bike I've always wanted with a beautiful paint and great stereo system for just over 10 thousand. Had the bike 5 years now and it still looks brand new because I try to keep it looking polished, next bike I'm doing the same thing because although I love going to the HD dealerships to look around I will not be paying 40k plus for a brand new street glide , just like I ain't paying $35 dollars for just TWO combos at Five Guys (happened once , never again lol). Good luck
As a late millennial (95) Harleys were the motorcycles I grew up around and when I finally decided to get one they announced they were killing the air cooled sportsters so I bought a used one. The biggest problem is the price like you said 32k for a street glide is more then I have payed for all of my vehicles and just isn't realistic for my age group.
I hate them groups and labels they call people these days all because someone was born within a certain decade or century, it's literally the dumbest thing EVER and people are just simply just people that were just born within a certain time and that's all there's to it. People need to STOP calling people like boomers, millennials etc etc, it's so freaking annoying and I hate labels!
@@LONEWOLF-rq5tlyour right but the terms are used to kinda let you know where people's heads are at by a certain generation. I'm 65 and grew up in a WAY different world on both sides of the pond 🇬🇧🇺🇲 Compared to newbies nowadays with their different attitudes to motorcycles. 👍😎
dude my coworker dropped 40k on his street glide, to me that ridiculous, it's a toy, I'll drop 40k on a truck, a house etc.. but no way I'm paying 40k for a freaking bike
I'm 60 years old and right at the very end of the baby boomer generation. I'm not a very big guy at only 5 ft 7 and due to arthritis it's harder for me to ride a big bike. I used to have a big twin, but I was younger then. I've been thinking about getting a smaller bike like a Sportster. Even an 883 fits me very well. But I am getting tired of hearing my old friends tell me that I'm turning into a woman because I would like to ride a sporty. Look, people, it doesn't matter what you ride, as long as you are in the Wind
Hey I'm 70 years old. Thanks to God in good health.i ride a 2023 Vulcan s 650 and really like it very affordable. One day I was out on the highway and a group of Harley riders were closing in fast . So I let them pass me and I rode way in the back. Well I had enough of that and I passed them doing about 90mph. That was fun .
I walked in to a Harley dealership ready to spend and got insulted by the salesman for wearing a full face helmet. I left with no bike and then bought used one owner Harley from a retired man for a lot less...
Same happened to me, but I couldn’t resist being a smarta$$ about it. It was along the lines of, “If you slow down, you don’t need to wear a helmet like that.” I said, “Yeah, I know! But you see, my bike is WAY too fast! In fact, a bunch of old dudes down the street told me to come here and I could find something that was incredibly expensive and real slow.” It actually got a laugh out of him, but I still didn’t buy a Pan America.
@@nickq204The Pan American is a nice bike, but not worth £19,000 imho. If i actually get any money, i would probably buy a new 450 RE Himalayan at around £7,000 and not worry about dropping it.
@@mr1bienvenu1 Harleys are not junk. They aren't Honda quality, but the fit and finish is very good. They are just outdated in many ways. I see what the other guy is saying about "if I have to explain it, you wouldn't understand". Let me try to explain it. I was always put off by the H-D crowd. They seemed, to me, to be super brand loyal dirt bags or wannabe dirt bags. Therefore, I wrote off Harleys as obnoxiously loud loser bikes. I recently decided to buy a more road oriented motorcycle and a friend talked me into riding a Sportser 1200. Shockingly, I really liked it. I bought it. It's no CBR1000 or Africa Twin, but I don't need those extremes. I love the simplicity and the old school charm. It has Screaming Eagle slip-on pipes, so it isn't overly loud and has a good rumble that I like to listen to since I'm a gear head. It's hard to explain to people sometimes why you would like an outdated motorcycle. You might ride one and not get it, but I suggest you give one a try. I like all motorcycles and riding styles. I may get tired of the Harley and sell it and my Kawasaki Versys-x 300 (great on/off road bike for the money) for a good off road/ADV bike. Either way, I'm not going to hang out with those stereotypical H-D guys or become one.
My 2008 softail has max 62 horses, according to Harley of course. I have custom pipes, sure it adds something, I get the engine is probably not as efficient as it once was. Say it’s 50 horses. Is that not enough?
Harley-Davidsons live in the realm of torque, not horsepower. What's the difference you ask? Horsepower allows higher top speeds (but the law doesn't!), Torque allows you to pull a heavy load, and also to accelerate this load. Different kinds of power. I never heard of anyone getting a ticket for accelerating too fast. But even a lowly H-D can get you a speeding ticket anywhere that there is some kind of speed limit. There are a lot of RUclips videos of the "Drag race between H-D and insert sportbike name here). Have you ever seen one where the H-D lost? Different kind of bike for a different kind of rider. I sold my Ducati a few years back after catching myself doing dumb stuff at triple digit speeds. Now I do dumb stuff at double digit speeds on older H-Ds. Am I safer? Probably not. But I feel safer. LOL! Regards.
@@DeanAWhite-gr8eo I didn't ask, and considering I ride Guzzis and build engines I say I've got a pretty good understanding thanks. Just a joke, always shocks me how salty some HD riders can be if you comment on their precious brand.
I recently tried to buy a Harley. I've been riding for over 50 years and have lost count of the number of motorcycles I've owned. I was looking for a basic 2024 softail standard which starts at ~ $15K. I gave up. Getting the bike to be reasonably comfortable entailed thousands of dollars in modifications to the seat, handlebars, foot pegs, control cables etc. Add on the outrageous dealer charges for setup and documentation, plus the HD transportation charges, and you are easily well over $20K. It's like Harley intentionally built an entry level big twin that no human could ride without dumping thousands on "upgrades." Conversely, I could walk into any metric dealership and sit on a big cruiser that is supremely comfortable in stock form. BTW, Indian seems to be following in Harley's footsteps when it comes to the basic Chief. I also totally agree on the limited knowledge of the sales staff regarding motorcycles. They are clueless. So, I guess I will never own a Harley. BTW I was amazed at a row of Harleys with enormous front wheels and tons of body work and electronics that had MSRPs over $60K, marked down to ~ $47K. They were comical. The dash looked like it came off a Boeing 747. They look like clown bikes for the circus. Why would anyone purchase such an ostentatious contraption? I think they came with a Harley branded leather jacket that had front and back emblems that said I AM A JERK.
I visited a gathering of Harley enthusiasts 10 years ago. The motorcycles were amazing in their beauty, but in the parking lot there were groups of Harley-Boys walking around and fighting with each other. I was attacked by a strong feeling of disgust that has not passed since.
Harleys are not real bikes, theyre WWII replica bikes. You dont call a Replica Firearm a real firearm... its a replica, meant for parades and reenactments...... the engines still used push rods til 2021... its a joke. theyve changed CEOs got bought out and now are importing chinese bikes. like Harley died a long time ago lol
@@heathjude50 He's right. Sonny Barger said more or less the same thing, and he should know. Harleys are stone-age junk. The people who ride them care more about image than riding skills. They're a pathetic bunch of losers.
@@erichartmann815Calm your ass down. Some people accept they're not gonna get into MotoGP, so they stick to style over performance. Not just Harley enthusiasts, but also Moto Guzzi, Triumph, and some Beemer heads. The real losers are the kids that buy a sub-$10k Suzuki sport bike to ride at 120mph on public roads, endangering everyone because they can't afford a track day with full gear.
@@Merc399Do what,bro you're just saying dumb stuff now like for real because no matter how overpriced and overrated Harleys are especially in my opinion, they're still DEFINITELY real motorcycles bub so I'd say you need to know what you're talking about before speaking on something that you CLEARLY have no idea what you're talking about!
Yes I had a Honda Magna 1100 and as you said was a nice bike. However when you ever need anything fixed for these I have found it to be nearly impossible to get parts. Harleys are much easier to find parts for
All my life I have ridden two brands, Harley and Honda. I think you are spot on in your assessment. HD made a huge mistake dropping the air cooled sportster like they did.
I think one has to go a lot deeper. Who made the decisions that turned America's economy from a manufacturing one into a service economy? Many good paying blue collar and middle class jobs in manufacturing died. I listened to our illustrious politicians in both major parties extolling the virtues of free markets etc. This was years ago when the average Chinese factory worker made about 62 cents an hour. How in hell does America compete in a world economy with that? I am 75, a student of history and a Navy veteran which means I have seen a lot in my time. It is hard for me to believe that this deeper reality and deliberate sabotage of my country by our own politicians and big wheels in banking and finance. I remember when Harley built a 350 cc bike that was affordable. But you are right about the new culture of inclusiveness being part of it. I despise racism and bigotry and always have. I don't know what the answers are but you have hit the nail on the head!
@wa1ufo We can't compete with low wage countries in manufacturing labor we make it up in high-end services. Don't confuse the service sector with waiters. Every high-speed rail, bridge or dam in China was built with many high-end services from the US and Europe. Economist will tell you that a service economy is where a mature well-maintained economy will end up. China right now is blowing up because they seem to only know how to do manufacturing. If they don't solve it and get their service sector growing their economy will suffer. If you followed economics in the 80's and 90's you will certainly remember how Japan was taking over the world with their manufacturing. They couldn't maintain it and struggled to move to the larger service sector that they have now. The US economy is the envy of the world with better GDP growth, higher wage growth, lower inflation!, lower gas prices than all other modern economies. The problem is not everyone benefits from our great economy and every attempt to help those left behind is met with a big FU freeloader!
You made some good points but here is a reason why I am a little spooked. Somewhat north ot me a huge transformer for our power grid had to be replaced. It had to be ordered from China as they are not manufactured here! A country with GE and Westinghouse doesn't make this transformer which is very critical for our grid here. So it was ordered from China. It arrived in a seaport on the east coast and it required a special trailer to haul it up to its location. This makes me wonder about other critical parts that our power grid needs on occasion. Any huge solar storm could cause major damage to our grid from the EMP when it hits. In any case, with Putin, that mental case in N.Korea and our sun which has the ability to bring down our grid I think we need to bring back the manufacture of those items.
@@wa1ufo That is a legit concern. I work with some folks in the Government that handle this type of issue for the military. I'm not aware of an agency that handles that kind of stuff for our infrastructure, but rest assured that if a big problem occurs then someone will care. I'm a capitalist, but there are many instances where the Government does need to get involved to protect an industry for national security reasons.
Well done video. 🙏🏻 As a Gen Xer myself, I have incredible sympathy for Millennials and the generations behind them. The wealth gap is real--and an absolute tragedy.
I actually prefer heavy bikes, but the Japanese have perfected that too, and that's why i love my 97 Honda Valkyrie. It will run circles around any HD and an excellent value
I've been riding street bikes for 44 years, and still haven't found a better bike than the Valkyrie. The one motorcycle that I definitely will still own the day I die will be my 2001 Interstate.
My buddy had two Valkyries, then a Rune. He said it was like riding a couch going down the highway. He's on a Goldwing now, but always misses his first V
I’m on the old end ofmillennials at 40. I have a Yamaha v star 650. It was my first road bike. Decades on dirt bikes but never got into road bikes until my late 30s. Honestly I thought I would one day “upgrade” to a Harley, but never will. Grew up reading easy rider etc, and now a days I think metric chops are what most fit the spirit of the 70s chopper scene. Making the most out of what you got and what your capable of. The v star puts a smile on my face, is easy to tinker with, 20 years of cheap parts, and I’ll likely ride it until I can’t ride anymore.
Good choice. If you decide to upgrade, look at a used Roadstar. I've ridden street bikes for over 35 years and owned Honda, Kawasaki, Suzuki and Yamaha. My first Yamaha was the vstar 650, upgraded to the vstar 1100, but after riding my Roadstar 1700 and a few Harleys, the roadstar will be my last.
My first bike was a vstar 1100 one of the best bikes I’ve ever owned out of all the bikes I’ve ridden the only Harley I’d consider buying is a vrod lol I now ride and 07 zx14 and honestly the Japanese bikes are where it’s at that and not every bike looks the same unlike Harley’s “wow 13 people in the pack have a orange and black street glide”
I rode a V-Star 650, and had a Harley Sporster 1200 1997. If you try the Sporster, you wont be able to like your V-Star anymore. Dont believe me, just check by yourself...
The one mechanic at my Indian dealership said he switched to Indian 4 years ago when his Harley-Davidson's engine blew up at 55,000 now he has 68,000 Miles on his Indian and it still runs great. He's been riding for 40 years. He said after the engine blew up he had enough with Harley and those are the bikes he rode before going to Indian.
@@mikedineen7857 that's amazing. I've never rode one but I hear nothing but good things about the gold wing. I learned the basics on a little Honda monkey then I bought my scout a year later. Honda and Indian both hold a special place in my heart.
Millennial here and just bought my first bike this past year. At first I wanted a Harley and had my eye on the Nightster but just couldn't justify the 13k + price tag. Like you said, even the pre-owned inventory was expensive. Eventually I bought a Royal Enfield Interceptor and I really love it. Looks great and lots of fun at a fraction of the price. When I decide to upgrade, not sure Harley will even be a consideration after exploring the options from Europe and Japan.
The interceptor 650 is a mighty fine bike that you should be proud of. I’ve owned the Royal Enfield Continental GT 535 and 650. The newer 650 was night and day better all the way around in quality and power compared to the 535. You made a great choice on that interceptor! One of the smoothest engines and shifters I’ve ever experienced. Make sure to take a look at Moto Guzzi motorcycles. Shaft drive, easy to maintain, and sounds like a built small block Chevy muscle car. The V7 850 series would be a fantastic choice!
@@donniebaker5984Honda Rebel $11k, Royal Enfield $6500, huge difference. Royal Enfield has the right idea, I own the GT 650, super cool, smooth, reliable, and so affordable. I looked at the Rebel, can’t justify the price.
Let me explain the whole big picture. HDs are an investment, along with being the best looking, sounding bikes period. They keep there value and alot actually increase as they age. Riceburnners don't. They are perishable items like brake pads and fan belts
There is a generation that didn't grow up watching "Easy Rider" & they don't want to look like their Harley riding grandparents. I do believe that is a factor in Harley sales. They're selling an identity not engineering.
Great video. I'm an older millennial that owns two cheap second hand bikes, an old K100 and a KLR. Hard to beat German and Japanese engineering. My dad owns a HD. The only way I'll ever own a HD is if I inherit it. But I'd sell it immediately. Zero appeal to me. I'd rather buy second hand Japanese old bikes and fix them up these days over buying new. I've decided to work less in my life than have new shiny expensive things.
Im 34 and was looking at a 2023 street glide. I was laughed out of the delarship and had 7k ready for a down payment. I ended up just buying a buddy's 06 Hornet 919 he just bought a street glide. Had straight pipes clipons the bike runs great. Hevent looked back. Im the one laughing now. I havent riden in 12 years and this $900 cb is making me pleanty happy.
When I bought my 2021 Sportster S I felt nothing but love at the dealership. And the last 2 Harley meet ups I went to there were sport bikes, nakeds, etc and everyone was vibing with each other.
I grew up in Chicago and we have a HUGE polish community. I recently moved to Kentucky and there a growing polish community here as well lol. You guys love your motorcycles too! I really love your channel, you have great honest content. Thank you
I still have my first and only Harley. A 1995 fxstsb springer softail that I bought used in 98. With routine maintenance and always being garage kept it still runs and looks as good as the day I bought it. For me it’s been a fun bike to own. With a large aftermarket and its mechanical simplicity it’s an easy bike to work on for the diy owner. It’s not fast and doesn’t stop on a dime but I still get a grin whenever I throw a leg over it. There’s a few newer Harley’s that I like. The Breakout, Fatboy and the Street Glide look great but after owning the Springer for 25 years I could never get rid of her. She’s part of the family
Man you are making me feel bad now... I own a 883 XL low 2008 and i'm currently thinking about selling it to get a new royal enfield 650. She's like my first love but i know her destiny would be to sit inside the garage if i decide to keep her. Its a decision that's breaking my heart...
@@djrandizz if you just want a stylish cruiser, again, they make those and they don't all cost $25k+ so what are we doing here? Harleys are overpriced and they aren't even good
As a millenial, I definitely like Harleys. They seem like great bikes and I love the way the touring chassis bikes move. For 28k out the door though, that price is disgusting for something that has a fraction of the performance of my Concours 14 I got for $6,500 used. They are cool bikes, but I totally can't justify spending that amount of money on a bike like that.
LMFAO , So you bought a Used Concourse but didn’t have the brain power to justify buying a used Harley? Evos are the most reliable Harley’s ever made, Twin Cams are also excellent bikes and I’ve never paid more than $5000 for them. My Softail is parked next to my Honda, and my KTM race bike. To each their own.
their middle of the pack bike cost 20 to 25 grand. now I do have a harley cause yea I love the look but I also had a 2010 v star 950 that cost me 3 grand. my buddy had a sporster 1200 that cost him 9k and guess which bike was was faster. not by a little but by alot
I have a favorite biker bar. 99% of the attendees roll in on their Harley's on bike night. Everyone turns around when a new bike enters the parking lot and looks to see what's coming... when it's just another Harley, they look for a half a second and then turn back to their beers. But when someone rolls in with a different kind of bike, everyone looks and keeps looking, and if it's a cool bike, they gather around it and check it out. So the bottom line is - you can't stand out when you buy the same "ME TOO!" Harley that everyone else has.
If you don't mind getting greasy, you can buy old 80s/90s Jap bikes quite cheap. Guys bought the bikes cuz they were cool. Had a close brush with death, or married, kids and the bike got parked in the garage ansdd slowly pushed back into the far corner covered with christmas decoration boxes. Low miles, maybe a few scuffs n scratches from storage. Clean the carbs, new tires, fluids. A 30 - 40 yr old Jap classic fires up the "I remember those" comments and stories ensue. I still have my '83 Honda VF1100C aka V65 Magna. I don't ride, got old n crippled.
Exactly why I didn't buy a Harley when I started riding again in 2007. I wanted to wear a helmet, and I didn't buy into the "badass" persona. I bought a Victory and loved it. Since then I've moved into ADV bikes and won't look back. I think if Harley wants to survive, they should start building dual sports and start widening their focus.
@@timh6845 The Panam is the best bike I've ever ridden, I absolutely adore it. I didnt try its closest competitor, the BMW 1300, but I just cant get over the horizontally opposed twin aspect. Got my Panam for 14k with extras too lol, certified pre owned so I still get 2 years warranty!
I think you hit the nail in the head with both reasons. As a millennial, I don’t want to be associated with those exclusivity clubs. It also doesn’t help that Harley riders DON’T WAVE BACK!!!
Boo hoo. The wave is not a big deal. I've met metric riders that are just as douchey to me on my Harley as the Harley guys are when I'm on my metric bike. It's the person not the bike and those people are everywhere.
Gen X Harley Street Glide lover here. I spend half my time in South America, (Work in oil and gas) and the only option down there was a Honda XR150. It was 2,000 usd, light as a feather, perfect for dirt roads or street. Perfect for lane splitting, and a lot of fun. I looked at some new CVO's at home, 50,000-60,000 dollars. I got three boys-- going to buy three Honda XR-150's for their first bikes.
3 of the same bikes sounds kind of boring... I don’t blame you though. They’re affordable, reliable, and fun. But you made me reflect on my past with your comment. I grew up with an older brother and my dad, and each of us always had something to ride around the farm. Since I was the youngest, It was kind of exciting to know that one day I would get my brothers bike, he would get my dad’s, and then one day, I would get my dads. And we went through this “cycle” all those years growing up, and so many different bikes. I wish I still had every one of them. But if they were all the same bikes, than I would only need one. Lol... But you do you. Sounds like an easy enough plan, and one that will definitely work.
They shouldn't have killed Buell. It was a very short sighted decision. That was their entry level, their sports/sports touring division and the brand that gave them cachet outside the cruiser market. The Pan America is nice but it's about a couple decades late. I agree with this video, but I'd highlight that it's a real thing that HD was made for American roads. If you want the big, torquey, comfortable v-twin that eats up cross continental highway miles, you're always going to look at a HD bike. And that kind of bike is just fundamentally always going to make sense in the US market.
Killing the 883 for cheap chinese 500s is also bad. Tney could have sold it to an Indian brand who would deliver it to America and Europe for Half the price and 4 times the reliability!
@shadow_realm47 they had no choice on the 883 front. The EPA forced them to kill that bike cause of the engine not meeting newer bullshit redtape standards.
Buell did not sell well. Plain and simple. The margins were small they make much more on the Chinese made 500 tho I can't imagine why anyone would want one except to say I own a Harley. Their Italian made ones were pretty good and cheap but the dirt bikes were slow even by dirt bike standards.
@@nicholasbrowning4558 If you walked into a HD dealership 20 years ago, if they had any Buell bikes at all it would only be the Blast. To be fair, the Blast did it's job and probably taught tens of thousands of people to ride motorcycles. If you look on craigslist or marketplace, you can probably find a dozen blasts, so it's still teaching people to ride. But Harley never properly pushed or supported Buell. If you wanted to buy Buell's sports tourer or ADV bike, the odds were the nearest dealership that stocked one was hundreds of miles away. There were always reports from day one of HD dealerships refusing to order parts or service Buell bikes, and then when Buell inevitably failed to be profitable they blamed Buell. It's typical HD short sightedness. They had no plans or enthusiasm for pushing MV Augusta bikes either, but the fortune they spent acquiring it would have paid for a decade of Buell's operating costs. Where's HD now? They pushed nostalgia(heritage) at premium prices, and now they have a geriatric customer base and a reputation for producing overpriced chrome highway ornaments for gullible boomers. Anyone could have seen this coming from 20 years ago.
I am 55 and have owned four metric bikes before now. I snatched up a low mileage 2005 Harley Heritage Classic at an auction for a very good price. It is everything a Harley experience should be. Living in Canada we only have half a year to ride so the usage of the bike and the enjoyment of riding is somewhat limited. So spending a full ticket price for a Harley is discouraging. However, the advice in this video about seeking out a used Harley is quite sound as the build quality and aftermarket support is very good. I think that th e market is really the problem for the manufacturers. As riders, we have lots of choices; many great choices. Go find what you like at a price you like. You can only ride one at a time. And these are not like spouses, so you can change them for another quite readily for little penalty!
That was truly a masterpiece my friend. I don't know how anyone could have said it any better than the way that you did. What's to add! Well done my Canadian friend!!! You get an A+ for sure!!
Agree with everything you said. Unfortunately, harley keeps raising prices without adding any features to justify the price increase. They will sell you a bike that has the exact same specs as it did 3 years ago for 30% more today. They lack some of the most basic electronic features that Japanese bikes offer at one-third of the price. The accessories catalog is ridiculously overpriced, and you absolutely need some options to make the bike worth your time. Harley is banking too much on their brand, and at the end of the day, my hard earned cash will not be filling up some complacent and greedy company's pockets.
All I need to say is that I have owned a 750 Norton Commando since 1973 and I can ride it any day of the week. Out of 12 bikes that I have owned since 1969, this is the one I kept and restored.
You being a mechanic as I am makes us completely irrelevant to new bike sales AND immune to everything that killed the British motorcycle industry. No one who was not a mechanic or rich enough to pay one belongs or belongs on vintage British motorcycles which are delightful technical artifacts but not at all suited to NORMAL use. My fellow Nortonistas are often so immersed they forget we are irrelevant and that no one would buy a new one except for the few who pay CNW or Kenny Cummings to create what is essentially a new Commando. (I've a 750 Commando and 850 Interstate plus the usual three or four more in bits.)
I'm 60 years old ,had around twenty bikes in my life. From Japanese to British to Italian , now riding a low rider 1690 and loving it . Each to their own 😊
Like you said a year ago, Harley should have built the Super Meteor. I do think there'd be a market for the Bronx, although whether it's big enough to fund the development is a question. Slightly overweight and underpowered would only bother spec sheet warriors. Only one in a thousand riders could actually ride any current litre bike to its potential in anything other than a drag race.
Good point. I'd like to have ridden the Bronx to compare. I think that a Super Meteor sized, air cooled 750-900cc M8 bike under 10K would serve Harley well. Unfortunately they do a great job with their upscale bikes but are not good at designing their entry level offerings.
I totally agree. Im a 64 yr old old school biker who's just bought his last bike. I bought a 2021 Harley Davidson Fat Bob 114 that was ridiculously expensive. It a real pleasure to ride but after customizing it a little it came out the door at over $30,000.00 with all its warranties. I could have bought two Japanese bikes and still had enough for a box of beer.How many 20 - 35 yr olds have 30K laying around to put out on something they only put a few miles on every year? Everybody loves my bike until I tell them what I've got into it. WTF everybody says !
All the old school bikers I know actually ride their bikes daily or damn near. They don't buy a bike for a specific season. If you are only riding a few times a year you are not a biker.
I don't get it. I'm the same age as you, and have been riding on the street since age 16. Bought my first new bike at age 20, a Yamaha XS650. I've always wanted a Harley, but by the time I could afford one at MSRP in the mid '90s, they were selling for twice MSRP. I finally got my first Harley, a 14 year old FXRS, in 2003. H-D has not made anything I would even consider riding for almost 10 years. I don't consider myself a biker, even though I have owned around 50 bikes, and have ridden close to a million miles. I don't wear the "pirate" costume that I associate with "outlaw bikers". I ride Harleys because I love the look, sound, and feel of older Harleys. The new smooth, quiet, flat black H-Ds just don't do it for me.
As a new rider many years ago, I aimed to get a HD, I didn’t, I got my car licence and went 2 decades on 4 wheels. I had an urge to get on two wheels again. I did look at the Sportster and the 48 but tbh, the cost new, then depreciation and thought I’d give it a miss. I got a pre owned 883 Sportster ultra low mileage, saved thousands, used it, hated it, got rid of it! Went Triumph route instead 👍
Harley's only real way to survive imo is to go to watchmaker route by making their bikes as expensive and show-offy as they can and hope people fall for it.
As a millennial, I love my Harley! I bought it used but it is by far my favorite bike I've owned. Its crusty and old and by no means perfect but it puts a smile on my face.
I love mine too. I'm also a millennial born in '87 and I've wanted a Harley all my life. Now I'm on number 3. (#2 was sadly stolen). We'll buy Harleys when we can.
100% agree with the video. Hit everything spot on. I'm a millennial and it pretty much read my mind for the past 3 years. I own a Harley, but for the exact reason mentioned in the video, used = cheaper ... and I'm aware that I'm out preformed by others on similar metric bikes.
After 30 years on BMW's I switched to a Sportster (bike #31) and I'm glad I did it. I needed to get back to basics. You have to harden yourself up to life on a bike. It did take me 4-6 weeks to get used to it. I was riding 2 hours a day all year around and have for years. I can see why a lot of younger guys get off of a super slick Japanese sport bike and end up not liking a Harley, because for one, the never lived on the their sport bike to start with. I'm 72 and have been on bikes since the mid 60's. I went the British route first with Triumphs, BSAs and Nortons. Then went on to BMWs when all of those dealers collapsed and blew away and using a British bike for every day use was a dead end. I'm retiring next week and I wanted something easy to work on, plus parts availability. It wasn't until 2 years ago that we got a new car, so I could use the spare for bad days. I endured it all for over 50 years. Snow, icy roads, storms, wind , rain, heat , traffic, animals, things falling off of farm trucks, logs, farm animals and after it all I'm still here. 🙂
@helmuthare I found a nice 2011, garage kept with 6800 miles on it 2.5 years ago. I wanted a 1200 , but this 883 was spotless, and I knew I would a long time before I found another this nice. I was in the bike business at one time and became a pretty good judge of horse flesh. Some of the reasons I got it was because I was retiring and didn't need boat anchor bike payments and parts in Germany. I'm 72, and I'd rather stay on 2 wheels, that I can easily afford, than have a bike with hard to get parts.
Back in the early 80s. I was 14 maybe 15 years old. No drivers license yet. One of the neighbors was given a wrecked Harley Davidson dirtbike. The forks were bent backwards so far that the tire was touching the frame or the engine. We’re just a bunch of teenagers , kids if you will. Anyway we pulled the forks with the rim on it far enough so it was rideable. And that’s the way it was ridden . For a long long time. Just a bunch of us learning to ride a bike. Man that thing was beat up. But it ran. And it was cool. I’d love a reasonably priced Harley Davidson dirtbike.
Great video buddy, we bought a brand new Road Glide Ultra in 2016, sold it after a year, lost 10k and went back to my DR650. Worst bike I've owned yet was the Harley over $40k out the door with zero extras. My Dr650 was $8500 out the door with a 5 year warranty added for $450ish. Harley has sold out to greed decades ago, if not for those who still love to dress up in cosplay on the weekends Harley would be done for.
@user-bt6vy8df4w I will never buy from HD again not since 2006 when I got my dyna super glide. My 2013 HD Road Glide Ultra I got from a private non HD dealer and love it. I really like the look of the 120th anniversary Road Glide but I can wait until someone trades one in at the privately owned non HD shop. I will always love HD bike's I've grown up on them. But I am not a fan of the HD company they turned on the customer.
Well said. You nailed it. Rode bikes as a kid. Now I'm 50 and want a cruiser again. I could afford a Harley, just couldn't justify paying that when I believe the Yamaha Stryker is better engineered. And also much cheaper.
I'm a millennial who has been riding for three years. Got almost 30k miles under my belt so far. I ended up buying a third gen Honda Magna and I absolutely love it. I didn't buy a Harley for a few reasons... #1 is definitely the value. I want something cheap enough to where if I mess up and drop it, I'm not going to be crying for days. Even a $10,000 bike was completely out of the question. #2 is performance - I wanted something fun, quick and at a manageable weight. When the lightest bike in the lineup is 700lbs and is only pushing 50 hp I gotta look elsewhere. #3 - I wanted something more unique than the billions of V-twin bikes running around. #4 - Harley culture is annoying. Unfortunately the Harley stereotypes have only been reinforced since I've been riding. If I pass another rider and give them the wave and it's not returned it's almost certainly going to be an older guy on a Harley. To be fair, it does seem to be a minority. Maybe my tastes will change as I get older. Who knows?
The reason I would never owned a Harley with a real Harley motor is they can't be internally balanced they can only be between two RPMs rangers. That's why I love the V-Rod well design well-balanced motor.
I’m 73 and still ride. You’re right on all points. I bought into Harleys because of resale value. Now there’s so damn many and everyone wanted to be a Harley guy or girl. There wasn’t a lot to choose from back in the day. Offshore products were a challenge to find parts and fasteners to fix your ride. You had to be your own mechanic so there’s that.
I'm a millennial. The typical image of the Harley rider in my mind for a long time was an overweight old guy. When I was looking to get my first street bike, I wanted the Softtail Slim S in olive green. A buddy had one and I thought it was the coolest looking bike (like a WW2 throwback). Local dealer had a used one. I went back to buy it a few months after checking it out, and for no reason at all it was $2k more. Another buddy who rode Victory told me to check out Indian. It seemed like a cooler brand, had a lot of excellent performance options. So I chose the FTR Rally (wasn't even looking for that style of bike at the time, lol). It reminded me of my dirt bike growing up, so I figured it's be a good transition bike to street riding. When I go to get that big bagger, I'm already sold on the Challenger for many of the same reasons.... Don't get me wrong, I like Harley. I follow a lot of younger folks on IG doing cool things with them. I just think I found what I was looking for with Indian.
You're right about the image. When people ask me if I want a harley, or if I own one. I always say (as a bit of a joke) that I'm too young for a harley.
Cruiser pipes are too close to my right leg and I burned my calf on one so I think that makes me an expert. Beware when they say, "Throw your leg over it and see how she feels". Now Triumph uses a parallel twin and the pipe comes out in front and is wrapped forward and beneath the foot pegs. Great job Triumph!
I'm a Millenial, i'm a Gal, and i just bought a Harley. Mind you, a second-hand Sportster 883 Iron from 2012, but as far as second-hand motorcycles are concerned, there wasn't a huge difference in price between the brands. There might have been before Covid, but now any half-decent second-hand will set you back at around 8000€ easy. I know for a fact that i'm probably not going to stick with my Sportster forever though, i'll want to upgrade eventually, but when i look at the current prices, whether new or second-hand, i'm having trouble imagining dunking twice the price of my car in a motorcycle.
Find someone who knows what they’re doing, upgrade the 883 with a big bore kit to a 1250. Idk how big you are or your riding style but that should be all the power you’d want if everything else on the 883 is to your liking
@@rollyourownRandF I'm 175cm / 5'8"ft, i like riding straight with my feet in the middle, the default position of my 883 suits me fine, i'm not fond of forward pedals.
@@rollyourownRandF Right now i wouldn't want to change anything, i don't really have a lot of experience yet to be able to say what i really want out of my bike. I want to ride with some friends, do some scenic roads, perhaps a small road-trip somewhere so i can really get a good feeling of my bike and what i'd like to "upgrade" or change. Technically i don't even have my license yet, i still have to pass the driving and manoeuvres exam, and i crashed recently (with the driving school bike, not mine fortunately) and broke my wrist, so i can't ride at all as i have a cast right now 😅
@@Tomcat_Centauri that sucks, honestly a set of crash bars and a parking lot to practice low speed maneuvers helps a lot. Obviously not much you can do with a broke wrist though, hope you recover soon and get back on it!
Well said. This toxic culture of excluding people (celebrated by a minority, as you said) has also killed the off-road-scene here in Germany. Besides that, Harley's quality reached it's peak with the, to a great extent, Porsche-engineered EVO in the Nineties. What came after, was certainly not flawless.
Harley had their peak and they got drunk off it. Once that drunken state wore off, and they scrambled to attract international consumers, that's when they realized just how far they've been left behind by other brands from Europe and Japan.
Porsche did not engineer the EVO, they participated in engineering the V-Rod. The EVO hit the market in 1983/84, not the 1990's. It is in fact a Harley patented design. The fact is that Harley club riders don't care what you ride unless you are in the club. So the feeling you have are generated 100% from your own sense of inadequacy, and nothing else. That's the same for every limp wristed whining person that acts that way, including the whining POS in the video.
I’m 78, and have been riding for 65 years. When I was young, I rode Hondas, starting with the CB750, and ending up with the V65 Sabre. Then when I was a bit older and more conservative in my tastes, I switched to Triumphs. I am currently riding my 3rd Triumph Bonneville. But between Bonnies, I snuck in a Harley. My wife decided she wanted to ride with me, and wanted one of those cushy queen seats with arm rests and drink holders and her personal stereo. So, I sold my Triumph, and bought a Harley CVO Ultra Limited, with a stage three performance kit added. They didn’t have stage four back then. It set me back almost exactly 50 grand. I have a very clear memory of my very first ride on my new Harley. I rode down the street, shifting up through the gears. I thought to myself, "I feel like I’m operating a piece of farm machinery!” I felt like I was sitting IN the bike rather than on it. I kept and rode the Harley for three years, after which my wife decided she’d had enough, and didn’t want to go riding any more. I sold the Harley, and bought my present Triumph Bonneville. And, I’m a happy camper once again. I love riding a motorcycle that feels and operates like a motorcycle.
The sportster was the gateway that brought people in. It was affordable and made the barrier for entry manageable. Now when models im shopping for are the same price as my car....yea im shopping used. Love Harley bikes but man they need to step back and bring something 10k or lower to the market if they want to stand a chance.
I used to hate Harleys and their riders until I started riding. Spent 3 weeks in the saddle last year traveling 2500 miles via the IDBDR on my T7. After long hours in the saddle, I get why people love their big bikes. But I love single track, two tracks, forest service roads, and the wilderness more than highways so I’m willing to sacrifice long distance comfort for a bike designed to travel on rougher surfaces. To each their own. I’d love to take a day cruise on a big, cumbersome HD someday just to experience it but have no desire to ever own one.
As a 31 yr old, who started riding on and older carbureted sportster 1200c, 6th season in, I still have that bike, bc I love the Harley feeling, totally different riding experience. That being said I wanted something a little sporty-er, got and sv650 that was substantially newer, less miles, for less money. Then last year came, saved up a bunch of cash, had planned on going to my local Harley dealer with over half of the msrp on a new street bob, was in love with the looks of that bike, thought it would be a great replacement for the sportster, only to find out they were wanting to charge me nearly 5g’s over msrp, with that exact mentality that you mentioned of how good a deal it is, told my brother who was they’re with me if he wants a real bike let them know(he has a mt09), couldn’t have been a worse experience. And that’s as someone who loves the bikes and the brand, but that was terrible Following that up I went to the triumph Detroit and Ducati Detroit dealships, both of which couldn’t have been nicer. Want so much more out of Harley Davidson
Comparing old sportster with MT09 is like comparing 19-century sailing ship with modern aircraft carrier. One is very nice-looking and another is actually useful.
As a millennial, why on earth would I buy a Harley? So old men can think "hes part of the lazy generation but at least he has a cool bike"? No thanks. If I had the amount of money it costs for a Harley just lying around, there's about 100,000 other things I'd buy first to improve the quality of my life. If I really was in the market for a bike, there's better and more reliable brands at a fraction of the cost of a Harley. Also, every old dude I've known who has/had a Harley has had a ton of mechanical problems. No Thanks
Millennial's dad's bikes are Harleys. Their grandpa's bikes were original Honda CB 750s, Kawasaki Z-1, Z-900s & 650s, Suzukis, 4 cylinder Goldwings, Yamaha XS650s, various Motoguzzis, Nortons, and air cooled BMWs.
Guess I'm a grandpa - old hondas, triumphs, BMW airheads from 60's and 70's. Massive amount of character in these bikes. For all those bikes, you could not buy one new Harley. New bikes way too gadgetized. If you must have a Harley, used is the way to go. Friends in a motocycle club have HD's from 40's-70's. I would like one of those, but very expensive.
@@Okayymatt Your father and grandfather were definitely both O.G's. Those AMF Harley Shovelheads were NOT easy to keep running and they leaked like a sieve. They probably had busted knuckles, callouses, grease under their fingernails, and smelled like oily gasoline. Those were REAL men. Brass knuckles, jail time, and the good old days of skunk-weed and that old yellow meth they would snort. Us Honda and Yamaha riders were scared of them. I had to give my bud Ricky a lift one day on my Yamaha Virago. He said "Please Lord - don't let anyone see me on this rice burner!" And "I don't want to die on a Yamadog!".
I think a cheap and basic bike, like a scrambler, would be successful. Although it's unlikely, I believe Royal Enfield made it work. A simple bike that just does the job. I've also noticed a shift towards smaller bikes. The XR150L is now available in America, and it's surprising to see people buying it. Perhaps the trend of bigger, faster, and harder bikes is coming to an end.
When I first got interested in motorcycles twenty years ago, I was interested in Harleys. But, at 5'6" with a 28" inseam, I could not handle how heavy these bikes are. I wish they would come out with lighter, lower displacement models.
In 2017, I went to buy a Harley, and the service I received made me walk out of the store and go over to Kawasaki... they acted like they were doing me a favor... I love my Vaquero, never been happier...
Incredible that management at HD have ignored the demographics and allowed their market leading position to collapse. If you look at Triumph, it continues to offer an impressive build quality, competitive performance and a range of aesthetically pleasing bikes. However, it has recognised the demographic shift and in 2023 launched a series of new, lower priced bikes which even challenges the Royal Enfield’s low priced, somewhat dated offerings. Triumph has a heritage and brand recognition comparable to HD but, it seems, its management must be a lot more nimble and consumer focused. It would be sad if HD becomes a niche player as you predict but it was noticeable this year that they did not exhibit at the UK’s preeminent national bike show this autumn/fall. This was an omission that did not go unnoticed by many within the biking community. Does this indicate that HD management are withdrawing into a likely flawed strategy, often adopted by large corporations, of cutting costs to maintain short term profitability rather than investing in products for long term success? I hope not.
I would read a bike mfg not presenting at Motorcycle Live as less of an indictment of the mfg and more of trade shows' effectiveness as marketing tools in the modern era. Motorcycle Live as an event is in decline. BMW didn't show at INTERMOT; they already have an established dealer network and vast assortment of social media influencers that will eagerly market for them (and for free). I doubt they'll be at Motorcycle Live next year and I expect won't be the only ones besides HD.
Went to the Harley dealer (Australia) earlier this month to buy my dad some new gloves. Every single model was marked "made in Thailand", yet still priced as if hand made in the US.
Yup. Right on. Gen Xer here. Bought a motorcycle two years ago. Went to several Harley dealers and demo'd a couple of bikes. They were nice, but heavy. Bought a Triumph at about half the cost and much better performance. Couldn't be happier.
Harley is doing a fantastic job of pricing itself out of existence.
Said every year since 1980.
Fantard alert....
There are so many used Harleys available that it didn’t make much sense to keep offering entry level bikes. so they decided to focus on the upper level models. We’ll see how that works out. Theysuffer from their own success.
@@terrellgarren7125 If it wasn't for the govt putting huge tariffs on foreign bikes over 750cc's Harley would have died in the 80's.
@@michaelgorman5748 , from and article on "the Motley Fool"
"But the history books seem to have gotten it wrong. The tariffs actually did little to help Harley-Davidson survive, though they likely did cost some workers their jobs and raised costs for consumers. What actually saved Harley-Davidson was Harley-Davidson."
Now you know the rest of the story.
Im not a millennial, as I'm 51, but I was looking for a new bike and decided to look at the Harleys. I found one that I liked and asked a salesman about it. He shot a smart comment at me about the high price and noted that he's not going to waste his time with someone that can't afford it. That right there killed any chance of me ever buying a Harley ever. I ended up getting a BMW M1000RR and I couldn't be more happy. If Harley wants to sell, they might want to clean up the sales staff just a little.
Are you from Maine sir? Millinocket born and raised here!
@@gk7588 Born and raised in Madawaska, and now in Saco Maine driving OTR for a company down this way.
Same happened to me in a Yamaha dealership.
The sales girl swiped me from top to bottom while I was looking at a Bolt in display. She said to me: Don't even look at it, you clearly can not afford it"
I looked at her in disbelief and walked out of there.
@@Bikerbear0585 yeah, crazy huh! Talk about judging a book by a cover. They got this belief that people that have money, look like they do in Hollywood. Unfortunately for them, that is not the case. I'm happy as hell that I didn't get one of their Harleys now. I couldn't be any more happier with my M1000RR. Damn that thing's fast! She probably did you a favor in the long run.
That’s rare. Where I live, the Harley sales staff has bent over backwards to sell me a bike. The problem is they are just too expensive. There are many other awesome bikes for much less money.
Motorcycles used to be the cheap trills, now they are a luxury item and a status statement 😢
To me it's transportation up and down the mountains cheaply with more smiles per mile. You can keep the status
That's why get a cheap motorcycle
Well I own two motorcycles. A Ducati and a Suzuki. I don't own a car or truck and two bikes is still cheaper than one car or truck so I don't consider them luxury items.
Maybe stop being obsessed with big cc and illegal speed.
Because here in Asia that sentiment still rings true.
That's why so many women will tell you that they love motorcycles, but if it's not a Harley they will turn their nose up at you. Reason is exactly that: it's a luxury item and a status statement and tells them that you can (theoretically) afford them too. THAT'S what they're looking for...
The problem with Harley Davidson is they used to be a motorcycle company who also made T-shirts. Today, they're a T-shirt company that also makes motorcycles. R.I.P.
You don’t even ride tho
@@bryananderson4988 Not a Harley I don't. But I have been coast to coast on a motorcycle 6 times. Only a fool would even try to do that on a Harley. Today, my present ride is a Can Am Spider R/T limited which is Canadian made and I wouldn't hesitate to take it cross country. It's also about the same price as a Harley.
@@bryananderson4988 u sound 🏳️🌈
@@KinoTechUSA69you are literally sucking a cucumber on your profile pic, quite representative of the Harley crowd.
Lol..@@KinoTechUSA69
Harley has fallen into the same catch 22 trap as Levi's. The fewer they sell the more they have to charge. The more they charge the fewer they sell. I walked into a clothing shop the other day and was utterly shocked to see an £120 price tag on a pair of Levi's 501 jeans. I walked a few doors down into another shop and paid £20 for a nearly identical, just as good quality, jeans without the brand logo. Vanity is a very expensive mistress!!!.
Im waering levis ride a brand new Harley and am a Millennial. 😂
@@mattd03411 cringe boomer
@@mattd03411
And live in your parents house
I buy pants at Walmart
A gold wing cost more than a road gluid. That b.s Harleys are too expensive comes from comparing bottom tear jap bikes to top tear Harleys. Rather than top tear jap bikes to top Harleys or bottom teat Harleys to top tear jap bikes
I'm a millennial (40) and I considered a Harley. I really liked the road king. My dad always wanted a Harley. My uncle, his brother, road Harleys. So there would be something about carrying on that tradition that appeals to me. At the end of the day, I couldn't justify it. The dealerships all felt like used car lots with ridiculously inflated prices. The BMW 1250 GS had so much more to offer for a similar price and with my BMW dealership, what you see is what you get. No BS Market adjustments, markup, assembly fees, etc. The price online is what I paid. Even aside from the price, the Harley just couldn't compete. My 1250 GS adventure has heated grips, electronically adjustable suspension, Cruise control, traction control, Customizable ride modes, TFT with Bluetooth connectivity, an 8 gallon tank, tons of top end power, and on and on. The Harleys selling point was basically "come on. It's a Harley."
the price of a new road glide in Indonesia is even 1.16 billion IDR. That's the same as 75,000 USD. I even have difficulty calculating the zeros on my calculator. So the main requirement for having one here is that you have to be very rich.

I always wanted a Harley for the same reasons you mentioned, knowing many older family members who rode Harley’s but when it came time to get a bike of my own…it just wasn’t feasible.
The money was most definitely a factor but another massive factor was why am I paying for 1943 technology at 2143 prices? There’s so many other options and choices at that price point (and cheaper) that catch my attention. I ended up with an Italian Harley instead, a Moto Guzzi, and it’s a lot of fun plus a real head turner with classy looks. Plus, the shaft drive makes it practically a get in and go bike that will take you anywhere at any time. More time riding and less time fiddling with chains, aligning the rear wheel, etc. One day I’d still love to have a Harley but it’s not a priority anymore at this point. They’ve priced themselves way out of reach for me to much care
You’re comparing apples to oranges. Harley and BMW r 2 different platforms
I was also on one for about 7 years. I had bad knees, and I had trouble getting on and off, but I loved the bike. It also had several potential high mileage problems, so I parted with it and got an F800GT, which was much lower and easier for me to get on and off. I put 77,000 miles on it in 4.5 years and then went on to the Sportster.
@@willharris6492forgot about that. Thanks
Living in Italy, I see many beautiful motorcycles, including a lot of Harleys. The point is that Harleys are not only expensive but also not practical. Riding a 350 kg beast through mountain passes isn’t satisfying, and maneuvering a bike as wide as a small car through traffic on the way to work is inconvenient. Then, I look at Triumphs and understand that when a brand wants to evolve while staying true to its heritage, it finds a way.
I can't imagine riding a Harley through those beautiful mountain roads and hearing the muffler scrape whenever maneuvering the curves.
Switched from Harley to Triumph in 2018 and have never looked back. It was like I stepped off of a tractor and got into a sports car.
As a gen-Xer, I actually ended up getting an Italian bike instead of a Harley. Very simply, Moto-Guzzi offers a similar product at a much better price and that is what I went with.
I didn't think much of Triumph until I saw the Speedmaster in person. Also I'll take a vespino over anything for city riding LOL
I’ve toured the Alps , the Transylvanian alps , the Pyrenees and the Dolomites on two different types of Harleys , all good 👍
Millenial here. When I started college in 2011, I had a Kawvasaki Vulcan 800. O loved it. Harley guys at meets called it a "rice burner" and told me to get a real man's bike. When I got old enough and had a bigger checking account, I decided not to be a part of that world and get a triumph rocket. Harley and their culture created this whole issue. Now they gotta lay on it
No they diddnt
I'm a old fat hairy douchebag, like most Harley riders are and I won't buy a Harley either. Never heard a bad word about the Vulcan.
@@bryananderson4988 Yeah, they kinda did.
Yeah. When they come to bars they're blaring Chris Stapleton, and rev their motors. Come into the bar, and act like they run the joint. Drives the women out of the bar.
@@benjismith593 Yeah.
"What's the biggest problem with a Harley supremacist?"
"Reaching the handlebars when he is gargling on his boyfriend's balls"
The only bikers that do not " nod" at me when I'm on my bike are HD riders and those that have just started riding in their middle age, I've been riding 44years since I was 16.
Ditto me, starting in 1970 on a funky little Trail 90 with the centrifugal clutch. Not long ago, someone on a loud-pipe Fatboy or some such thing saw my oncoming flat-six timing cover, (rather conspicuous on a Valkyrie) and gave me the middle finger. No doubt he was one of those fire-breathing, flag-waving patriots who could talk the talk but not walk the walk, resentful that almost any large-bore rice-burner could run away from him with almost zero effort.
Hey man, if you're new to riding letting go with one hand is a little scary!
@PeterAngles-jq7gr a xr650l is all that is needed to embarrass one
Same. Told me all I ever needed to know about (not ever) wanting a HD.
@PeterAngles-jq7gr my 2022 MT07 would...
As a young Gen X'er I'm considerably worse off than my boomer parents, so I can only imagine how bad it is for Millennials. I started riding bikes *because* I wanted a Harley. Not anymore. I can't relate to the brand, the style, and definitely not the price. As a consequence, I drifted away from cruisers and now I'd rather have a Japanese naked, and my aspirational bike is now a sport touring. Hell, at this point, for the price of a Harley I can buy two of them.
Can’t afford it working at Walmart huh?
@@Iniquityslasher Nice try, boomer. I'm a biochemist, work for big pharma. Do Harley pay simps per comment or are you just sore I hurt the fee fees of daddy's brand?
I'm a retired mechanical engineer - that gives me an appreciation for good engineering design, something H-D doesn't have. All their offerings (except for the Pan America) are simply tweaks on an archaic design. "Style"???? Right out of the 50s. Start with a clean sheet of paper, look at the Japanese and European offerings, an learn something.
I'm a young gen-x myself and have owned a couple of HDs, but won't buy another one. I appreciate the style, but even I have a hard time discerning models anymore. Putting a different front and rear fender on something doesn't make it a different model. I ride a victory now, which started and ended with better engineering than HD, especially in the motors. Indian is continuing that after they closed the victory brand. My next bike likely to be a sport touring model though, just wish that anyone other than bmw still made one. If HD put the diversity of of a Pan-America in a touring chassis, I'd consider it. I have extremely little optimism that they'll do it though.
How many Founding Father quotations does modern education give the younger generation?
“And I sincerely believe with you, that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies; and that the principle of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale.”
“Bank-paper must be suppressed, and the circulating medium must be restored to the nation to whom it belongs.”
“I wish it were possible to obtain a single amendment to our constitution. I would be willing to depend on that alone for the reduction of the administration of our government to the genuine principles of its constitution; I mean an additional article, taking from the federal government the power of borrowing.”
-Thomas Jefferson
“Paper money has had the effect in your state that it will ever have, to ruin commerce, oppress the honest, and open the door to every species of fraud and injustice.”
-George Washington
“All the perplexities, confusion and distress in America arise, not from defects in their Constitution or Confederation, not from want of honor or virtue, so much as from the downright ignorance of the nature of coin, credit and circulation.”
-John Adams
I’m a baby boomer and have owned nearly 30 bikes, mostly Triumphs and Ducatis. I’ve never found a Harley I was interested in owning, and don’t expect that to change. The old adage about yesterday’s technology at tomorrow’s prices always rang true with me.
I met a senior fella recently at a local service station riding a scooter that showed interest in my gsxr. After which he rattled off about 10 different sport/sport touring bikes he'd owned over the years. Seriously thought to myself what a legend. If all he can handle riding now is a scooter, it's still better than any HD. Millennial myself, the circles I move in, general consensus is HDs are a pile of 🐕 💩. I might be ignorant of their history but as a brand they've given me no reason to display any interest.
I will never buy harley , overpriced underperformed machines
It's the $$$ and a flood of used bikes...
I do love the sportster'S
I live on Maui, you know how many Triumphs and Ducatis I see? 90% of the bikes here are Harleys
Same here, but a Gen X'er, currently riding a Triumph Street Triple RS. Have owned a lot of bikes, and the only HD's I was ever interested in were the Bronx (which was never brought to market), and the XR1200 (until I rode one). The Indian FTR1200 is the closest thing to anything HD makes that I'm even slightly interest in, and after riding one on a demo ride (yawn), I've determined that the Triumph I already have is a WAY better bike, and cost $8k less. So yeah. If HD goes away, it's their own fault.
Older millennial, and I can admire the fine craftsmanship of Harley Davidsons. However, I can also admire the fine craftsmanship of Rembrandt in a museum either for free or at a very low charge.
Wow look at you with the philosophical approach and what not or what have you! 😂 you read a book and you just gotta tell everyone you meet don’t you? 😂 jkjk have a great one ser… 😅
If I’m buying a motorcycle, it should do what they’re supposed to do. Go, stop, and corner spectacularly. Bonus points for keeping its fluids inside.
AMEN! 😂
Harleys haven't leaked oil since the shovel heads ! Since you obviously know nothing about Harleys that's pre 84.
@Ultra1036speed Harleys still won't go, stop, or turn. They have crap tires, crap brakes, crap suspension, crap geometry, flexy frames and forks, crap ergonomics, impotent engines, agricultural transmissions, rubber-mounted everything, and that stupid zero-lash rubber-band final drive. They're dog slow, handle like a sinking oil tanker, and the brakes are terrible.
@@DortonFarbWhat a load of bullshit. My dad has all kinds of motorcycles from Harley’s to Ducatis to old ass Moto Guzzi BMW’s and on and on. His Harley’s ride fucking fine 😂
You people who pick and choose brands are clowns.
Harleys don't leak oil, they are just marking their territory...
Millennial here - during the summer of 2020 I was 34 and spending my time at home researching toys to treat myself too when the world to returned to a bit of normalcy. I grew up on the back of my dad's 81 Low Rider and I have been on Moto Guzzis for 20 years. I was all ready to go lay myoney down on a new Bronx and then at the end of that summer Harley gave it the ax and told me they didn't want me as a customer. I went with a new 2020 Triumph Speed Twin in the spring of 21 and never looked back.
Normality ?
H-D could have been where Triumph is now. Triumph has some really nice budget friendly models. As long as they built Sportsters, they should have been well under $10k. Why can't H-D build a bike like Triumph's 400 Scrambler x?
Speed Twin, amazing machine.
@jbeery004. That is the biggest problem Harley has, they have failed to understand the post boomer generations.
I am Gen X myself and they lost me when I was a teen.
I believe, there is finally one Harley for every AZZ-HOLE!
The market is saturated. 😂
You nailed it with this video. Overweight, overpriced, dealer attitude and rider culture will keep me away from Harley even though I could afford one. Many Japanese and European brands to consider instead.
Emphasis on the Overweight.😎
Emphasis on the "rider culture"
You should rent one some time and go on a trip. That weight you've been brainwashed to hate makes them uber composed and comfy. I've owned and traveled on most brands and there is a reason that HD sells so many baggers. Light is great if you're road racing or motocrossing, but not so great in a cross wind at interstate speeds.
You should only consider them then go buy a Harley. If you have ever ridden a Harley you would not say what you just said.
Gold wing cost more than a road gluide.
My wife and I went to our nearest Harley Davidson dealer to buy a new 883 Sportster about 10 years ago. What we found was a nice selection of motorcycles that all had price tags showing at least $2k over factory retail and most had a few chrome accessory items that drove the prices up even higher. They had a 5 year old 883 Sportster in the used bikes that I liked too, but it was priced at exactly the MSRP of a new 883 Sportster. When I spoke to a salesman, he immediately let me know that all prices were firm, take it or leave it. We left on the same Kawasaki Ninja we came in on and never wasted our time our theirs after that.
Its been awhile since I looked into bikes but I'm happy to see that the strategy of selling yesterday's technology at tomorrows prices is alive and well at this company
It's hard to be the dominant manufacturer AND the highest cost/price producer all at the same time.
Personally, I ride because I love the feeling of being one with my machine and flying free down the road. I don't ride to look cool. Harley feels like more of a fashion statement than a passion for riding.
Exactly, I just ride to have that freedom of riding because it's a great and relaxing feeling all in itself and there's NOTHING else like it at all. I chose a motorcycle that I like ALOT and that suits me and that's that and I'm NOT trying to impress anyone whatsoever!
have you ever ridden a harley? if you're into cruisers there's no other cruiser that feels as badass as a harley. i've rode honda's, yamaha's, victory's and indians and harleys are a cut above in making you feel the exhilaration of a motorcycle. the jap cruisers and even indian/victory feel like imitations.. it sucks that harleys are $20k+ new and not many people can afford that but there's nothing else like them and hopefully they start offering affordable options that aren't tiny sportsters because it would be a shame if they went away or become completely unobtainable
I agree with you! Too many people out there these days with inflated egos gatekeeping. I've seen guys aggressively insulting someone else's bike or an accessory on said bike because they thought it was dumb, as though that person they were insulting got the bike purely for someone else to enjoy. I say shut up and mind your own business. I dress the way I do and ride what I like because it is for ME, nobody else.
@@LONEWOLF-rq5tl "ALOT" is not a word!
@@Jeff82556hO My nAmEs JefF 🥴
You summed up why I still haven't purchased a Harley after over 40 years on 2 wheels... Price and attitude. Twice in the last 2 years I have been only a signature away from buying an HD, only to walk away because the value just wasn't there in my opinion.
About a year ago I sat down to deal on a Street Glide and the first thing they asked for was 4 references. What the hell? I left and will never return to an H-D dealership to even just to browse.
You should have given Honda, Yamaha, Kawasaki and Suzuki as your 4 references. Been riding for over 50 years and never owned a Harley. I've driven 3 in that time. One was actually a 65cc 2 stroke Harley branded Benelli, one the owner had a stroke and I drove it home for them, and the third one, the owner who was a friend of my cousins friend died and I drove it half way across the country to where his sister, who got it in the will, lived. That was last February in at and below freezing temperatures with no windshield, no heated anything, loud pipes, radically raked front forks (chopper) and forward foot controls. I also put in a new battery and rear tire to make it road worthy. None of his Biker Buddies would do it, they wanted the bike for themselves. Oh and I don't live in the same state as they do neither. Good video!
@@macplus3339 Honda, Yamaha, Kawasaki, and Suzuki...LMAO. I love it!
If the references is the biggest issue I do apologize, most people have 4 friends, and these are just for credit purposes and will never actually be contacted, unless you were to default on your loan
@@chrisdexter3451 *Asking for forgiveness is easier than asking for permission.*
Any dealer that asks for 4 personal references as soon as everyone sits down is either working for a jerk of a dealership or is one themselves. I don't know who you are but apologies don't make up for unethical business practices.
*F Harley dealerships and the Harleys they ride on.*
I got yelled at over a comment I made to a Harley guy. He was talking about how lucky he was to finally find a Harley mechanic that he could trust and depend on. I commented that I did not need a good mechanic because I drive a Honda.
*"it comes with a sticker for your forehead that says: sucker."*
Hahahah!
And your sticker says queer ! 😂😂😂
Don't forget the h.o.g pin that says "sucker" as well!
You must watch the south park episode about bikers
Or loser
I had to rewind and listen again and then was like "he really said it" 🤣🤣🤣🤣
I've been to my local Harley dealership multiple times, and the sales staff (and the grizzled old guys who just hang out there) were all nice and polite. It's too bad buying a Harley has never crossed my mind. Working class millennials like myself can't possibly afford it. That dealership just happens to be our local Royal Enfield distributor and I'm buying one of those instead.
Because only next to an Enfield a Harley looks semi-decent?
@@nervotica7991quite opposite
@@vivekjoshi5600 - you missed my point COMPLETELY.
Nothing wrong with a royal Enfield
I'm selling my Harley cause i wanna buy an interceptor 650. Royal Enfield has still soul
I'm 40, you hit the nail on the head. Owner and dealership attitudes soured me on HDs, even though they're beautiful bikes. When I was a kid, a Road King style motorcycle popped into my head when I thought of a motorcycle. I learned to ride in my early 20s on a beat up 1980 Kawasaki LTD 1000. The decade I spent riding that bike, I got lots of comments from old heads on HDs about "when are you gonna buy a REAL BIKE?". It was also usually the HD riders that wouldn't wave back to me since I obviously wasn't on a REAL BIKE. I was taught how to ride by an old head biker I worked with, but he rode a modified Yamaha VMax. Those attitudes chased me around for years, discouraging me from going to meets and group rides. I would just ride around alone. Fast forward to 2014 and I was looking to buy a brand new bike. I looked at Road Kings since they were a childhood fixture for me, but I got attitude from the sales people at my local HD dealership about finally upgrading to a REAL BIKE. Cue Triumph. I always liked their bikes, but I wanted a big cruiser, and up until then, they didn't have much in that vein besides the America, and it wasn't all that interesting to me. That year, they launched the Thunderbird LT and I was in love with it. It was cheaper than a Road King, but had the same look, and already came factory equipped with crash bars, highway pegs, a taller windshield, white-walls, spoke wheels, and beautiful paintwork. However, even when I went to my local Triumph dealership, they were a multi-brand dealership that also sold HDs and the salesman was obviously disinterested in selling me a Triumph. He had almost nothing to say about the bike while I was looking at it in the showroom. When I asked for a test ride, he said sure, let me show you around while we get the bike pulled out and ready for you. We immediately went into the HD showroom and he talked for almost 20 minutes about the new Project Rushmore HDs with the new at the time infotainment systems. I ended up buying the Triumph and love the bike, but I never went back to that dealership. I service my bike myself and I didn't have any warranty problems with my Triumph. I'm not in the market to replace my Thunderbird, but if I were, I'd go straight back to Triumph and buy the Speedmaster. Even though it's a smaller bike that my Thunderbird, it's still a looker. I'd kit it out similar to my Thunderbird, with bags, crash bars, and a windshield. Harley-Davidson just isn't on my radar and probably never will be at this point in my life.
Same thing happened to me. Lived in Australia at the time and owned a 1980 GSX1100 (loved that bike) but was looking at a buell to just change it up. Went to the dealership and there's the attitude on full display. "Oh I had one of those old GS's once, but like you I wanted a real bike." kind of bull roar. Turned right around and left.
Motorcyclists should have a lot in common, including a love of all things mechanical. It used to irritate me that Harley riders would never return a friendly wave from a sport bike rider. At first I thought it was snobbery, but eventually concluded they're just embarrassed to be seen on an overweight, poor-handling bike with a 1950s-era engine.
"Harley riders would never return a friendly wave from a sport bike rider" I've been riding Harleys and Buells for 15 years and I've never heard or seen that sentiment.
A guy I worked with rides his Sportster to our monthly luncheon. When he saw my Triumph Bonneville, he said “That’s almost a Harley.” I laughed. Lots of non riders think they have something important to say to owners/riders of non HD riders. I enjoy having a reliable, oil tight, easy to maintain and paid off Triumph.
Give him his own sh*t right back to him and tell him, "That's a woman's bike." Which is the knock HD riders have on Sportsters.
I believe, there is finally one Harley for every AZZ-HOLE!
The market is saturated. 😂
I’m not going to start an argument over something meaningless. I love HD Sportsters, too bad HD doesn’t.
I once owned a lowrider.Six months later sold it and bought another triumph.Now on my sixth Triumph and loving it.
Tell him to look closely at that picture of Marlon Brando in “The Wild One” next time he’s in the HD dealership-Brando is sitting on a Triumph.
as a 40 year old who just learned how to ride a motorcycle this year, I too had the distaste for the harley brand elitism that typically accompanies the bikes. When I was shopping for a bike I did look at a few at a dealership but the large bike just didn't appeal to me. After looking at several styles of bikes I ended up with a Royal Enfield Interceptor. It fits my needs extremely well and has a style and a price that fits me. If I were to end up buying a Harley at this point it would be something from the 50s-80s, I do also Daily drive a 1967 C20 that I've had now for 17 years.
I am 83 years old and still ride my 2002 Road King that I bough new for around $17,000. Harleys are heavy, but when you are rolling it doesn't seem to be a problem. I love it. But I agree, the main problem with the Harleys is the price.
Yea I’m 19, I make $30,000 a year so when a new Harley is $20,000+ I’m not going to be getting one anytime soon. I got my klx 230 dual sport new for $5000 a couple years ago as my first bike.
And the dealers attitude, esp. in Europe.
I'm 41. Bought my HD 48 Sportster new in 2019. Sure, I've got a few years left on the note, but it's a fun ride. I'm slowly making it mine.
Definitely agree, for the price of a 2023 Sportster, I can get both a brand new Yamaha Mt-07, which is a blast to ride, and an YZF- 250, if I want to do motocross. Or I can get one and a Sea-doo, an ATV, a used car, or simply save the money.
On top of that, I’m 23, I have my own place fully owned, am paid well, but I still feel the effect of inflation, food, gas, clothing, basically everything it takes to live is so expensive. So I’m not saving up to buy an Harley, but get little pleasures more often, and I’ll probably get a CB500 or a scooter for around the town, which cost a lot less.
The KTM is a good bike, you did just fine.
Houses have gotten stupid expensive. Millennials need affordable houses.
I am fortunate and bought each of my kids a house years ago when they were cheap and rented them until my kids were ready for a house. I don't know how millenials even survive in this messed up economy.
The whole Harley vibe is way past its peak.
I agree. The culture has shifted out from under them, and not enough people are good earners. Plus, to some extent the outlaw image can be had with blue hair dye a couple of piercings. The whole inked and in leathers thing has just become common place. The statement about riding Harley because you value freedom is drown out by a lot of modern noise.
Sells of new bikes may be down, but lots of young people are buying used Harleys. They are doing some amazing stuff with them. Check out East Coastin Crew, Kruesi stunt team, C Bear, to name a few.
I've had a Honda and a Harley. The Harley is far better for touring. If you want to race around in the fetal position, buy a crotch rocket. If you want to see the country in comfort, buy a Harley.
@@joejunior1974 Which Harley? OMG, you slick out a sporty and they can be back killers over long distance. My surgery can attest. But the road king (bought a year after surgery) was sweeeeet in so many ways.
@TheGreenHeartofItaly-fl3wv Lowrider ST. Harleys have so many aftermarket parts that you can transform them to fit your needs. I have an aftermarket seat, floorboards, pullback risers, and rockford fosgate audio system. I love this bike! Totally comfortable for long rides, and still lots of power and looks awesome!
Born in 64. Last 3 bikes were a Yamaha Bolt, Suzuki M109R Boss, and a Hayabusa. I never did like the sound of a Harley.
The best way to turn fuel into noise without any horsepower gain is by riding a Harley
Hayabusa forever 👍
@JD-vl5yh I love my vrod, harley guys call it a lady bike until I take off and they can't keep up 😂 I also love my r1. I don't know if I'm a harley guy or rice rocket guy, I just call myself someone who loves motorcycles and think the stigmatism against other bikes is childish and those people need to grow tf up. Different strokes I guess.
@@SickSensei223 My best bud let me try his before. That's the only cruiser I've had that much fun on in my life. Wouldn't buy one but I can at least appreciate the appeal. The only current thing I've seen of their lineup I'd like to sit on is a Pan America. Kinda looks like a vacuum cleaner from the front but also 80s cool. I doubt it'd do much for me after owning an Africa Twin but who knows.
Being one from the millennial generation. I have always wanted a Harley personally. I have almost bought a brand new Harley several times in recent years. The dealers and their sales tactics trying to overcharge over msrp and other fees has turned me away everytime.
that's one thing people forget about. yea that price tag might say 13k but once you've bought it. and the fees are added that bike is closer to 15k out the door
Dude just go to an independent bike dealership. For example I went to Ol' Reds in Simpsonville SC and bought my HD Street Glide from them. It was 6 years old with low miles and I got me the bike I've always wanted with a beautiful paint and great stereo system for just over 10 thousand. Had the bike 5 years now and it still looks brand new because I try to keep it looking polished, next bike I'm doing the same thing because although I love going to the HD dealerships to look around I will not be paying 40k plus for a brand new street glide , just like I ain't paying $35 dollars for just TWO combos at Five Guys (happened once , never again lol). Good luck
Fortnine posted a video on why moto dealerships suck and seem predatory.
Ecxatly the same, they think people are stupid. Good bike but asholes sale man and the price are beyon 7k, so to who are they selling to.
Never buy new.Try not to buy from a dealer only did it once in 01 second bike bought from private entity better experience..
As a late millennial (95) Harleys were the motorcycles I grew up around and when I finally decided to get one they announced they were killing the air cooled sportsters so I bought a used one. The biggest problem is the price like you said 32k for a street glide is more then I have payed for all of my vehicles and just isn't realistic for my age group.
I hate them groups and labels they call people these days all because someone was born within a certain decade or century, it's literally the dumbest thing EVER and people are just simply just people that were just born within a certain time and that's all there's to it. People need to STOP calling people like boomers, millennials etc etc, it's so freaking annoying and I hate labels!
@@LONEWOLF-rq5tlyour right but the terms are used to kinda let you know where people's heads are at by a certain generation. I'm 65 and grew up in a WAY different world on both sides of the pond 🇬🇧🇺🇲 Compared to newbies nowadays with their different attitudes to motorcycles. 👍😎
dude my coworker dropped 40k on his street glide, to me that ridiculous, it's a toy, I'll drop 40k on a truck, a house etc.. but no way I'm paying 40k for a freaking bike
I have 2 children 38&42 both bought used Sportster s. Only bikes that they like.
@@LONEWOLF-rq5tlwrong video, man.
I'm 60 years old and right at the very end of the baby boomer generation. I'm not a very big guy at only 5 ft 7 and due to arthritis it's harder for me to ride a big bike. I used to have a big twin, but I was younger then. I've been thinking about getting a smaller bike like a Sportster. Even an 883 fits me very well. But I am getting tired of hearing my old friends tell me that I'm turning into a woman because I would like to ride a sporty. Look, people, it doesn't matter what you ride, as long as you are in the Wind
Hey I'm 70 years old. Thanks to God in good health.i ride a 2023 Vulcan s 650 and really like it very affordable. One day I was out on the highway and a group of Harley riders were closing in fast . So I let them pass me and I rode way in the back. Well I had enough of that and I passed them doing about 90mph. That was fun .
I walked in to a Harley dealership ready to spend and got insulted by the salesman for wearing a full face helmet. I left with no bike and then bought used one owner Harley from a retired man for a lot less...
Same happened to me, but I couldn’t resist being a smarta$$ about it. It was along the lines of, “If you slow down, you don’t need to wear a helmet like that.” I said, “Yeah, I know! But you see, my bike is WAY too fast! In fact, a bunch of old dudes down the street told me to come here and I could find something that was incredibly expensive and real slow.”
It actually got a laugh out of him, but I still didn’t buy a Pan America.
Seems like a strange thing to insult somebody about. I guess they never run out of insults
@@nickq204The Pan American is a nice bike, but not worth £19,000 imho.
If i actually get any money, i would probably buy a new 450 RE Himalayan at around £7,000 and not worry about dropping it.
Honestly, I've bought two Kawasaki's. Honestly I just see no reason to buy a slower, heavier motorcycle that is also more expensive.
If I have to explain it, you wouldn't understand!
@@socaltriker4212Go ahead, try to explain it. Good luck 😂 HD is junk.
@@socaltriker4212 and that's exactly the off putting Harley rider attitude mentioned in the video.
@@gerardmontgomery280 One of the reason I dumped my HD for Moto Guzzi, the greatest group(clan) on two wheels.
@@mr1bienvenu1 Harleys are not junk. They aren't Honda quality, but the fit and finish is very good. They are just outdated in many ways. I see what the other guy is saying about "if I have to explain it, you wouldn't understand". Let me try to explain it. I was always put off by the H-D crowd. They seemed, to me, to be super brand loyal dirt bags or wannabe dirt bags. Therefore, I wrote off Harleys as obnoxiously loud loser bikes. I recently decided to buy a more road oriented motorcycle and a friend talked me into riding a Sportser 1200. Shockingly, I really liked it. I bought it. It's no CBR1000 or Africa Twin, but I don't need those extremes. I love the simplicity and the old school charm. It has Screaming Eagle slip-on pipes, so it isn't overly loud and has a good rumble that I like to listen to since I'm a gear head. It's hard to explain to people sometimes why you would like an outdated motorcycle. You might ride one and not get it, but I suggest you give one a try. I like all motorcycles and riding styles. I may get tired of the Harley and sell it and my Kawasaki Versys-x 300 (great on/off road bike for the money) for a good off road/ADV bike. Either way, I'm not going to hang out with those stereotypical H-D guys or become one.
Harleys are best at converting fuel to noise, without the side effect of horsepower.
My 2008 softail has max 62 horses, according to Harley of course. I have custom pipes, sure it adds something, I get the engine is probably not as efficient as it once was. Say it’s 50 horses. Is that not enough?
Harley-Davidsons live in the realm of torque, not horsepower. What's the difference you ask? Horsepower allows higher top speeds (but the law doesn't!), Torque allows you to pull a heavy load, and also to accelerate this load. Different kinds of power. I never heard of anyone getting a ticket for accelerating too fast. But even a lowly H-D can get you a speeding ticket anywhere that there is some kind of speed limit. There are a lot of RUclips videos of the "Drag race between H-D and insert sportbike name here). Have you ever seen one where the H-D lost? Different kind of bike for a different kind of rider. I sold my Ducati a few years back after catching myself doing dumb stuff at triple digit speeds. Now I do dumb stuff at double digit speeds on older H-Ds. Am I safer? Probably not. But I feel safer. LOL! Regards.
@@DeanAWhite-gr8eo I didn't ask, and considering I ride Guzzis and build engines I say I've got a pretty good understanding thanks. Just a joke, always shocks me how salty some HD riders can be if you comment on their precious brand.
@@NoThanksnothanks it is enough, for a thirty year old 500cc motorbike
@@NoThanksnothanks It weights 800 pounds donut ?
I recently tried to buy a Harley. I've been riding for over 50 years and have lost count of the number of motorcycles I've owned. I was looking for a basic 2024 softail standard which starts at ~ $15K. I gave up. Getting the bike to be reasonably comfortable entailed thousands of dollars in modifications to the seat, handlebars, foot pegs, control cables etc. Add on the outrageous dealer charges for setup and documentation, plus the HD transportation charges, and you are easily well over $20K. It's like Harley intentionally built an entry level big twin that no human could ride without dumping thousands on "upgrades." Conversely, I could walk into any metric dealership and sit on a big cruiser that is supremely comfortable in stock form. BTW, Indian seems to be following in Harley's footsteps when it comes to the basic Chief. I also totally agree on the limited knowledge of the sales staff regarding motorcycles. They are clueless. So, I guess I will never own a Harley. BTW I was amazed at a row of Harleys with enormous front wheels and tons of body work and electronics that had MSRPs over $60K, marked down to ~ $47K. They were comical. The dash looked like it came off a Boeing 747. They look like clown bikes for the circus. Why would anyone purchase such an ostentatious contraption? I think they came with a Harley branded leather jacket that had front and back emblems that said I AM A JERK.
I visited a gathering of Harley enthusiasts 10 years ago. The motorcycles were amazing in their beauty, but in the parking lot there were groups of Harley-Boys walking around and fighting with each other. I was attacked by a strong feeling of disgust that has not passed since.
Harleys are not real bikes, theyre WWII replica bikes. You dont call a Replica Firearm a real firearm... its a replica, meant for parades and reenactments...... the engines still used push rods til 2021... its a joke. theyve changed CEOs got bought out and now are importing chinese bikes. like Harley died a long time ago lol
@@Merc399you have no clue what you’re talking about
@@heathjude50 He's right. Sonny Barger said more or less the same thing, and he should know. Harleys are stone-age junk. The people who ride them care more about image than riding skills. They're a pathetic bunch of losers.
@@erichartmann815Calm your ass down. Some people accept they're not gonna get into MotoGP, so they stick to style over performance. Not just Harley enthusiasts, but also Moto Guzzi, Triumph, and some Beemer heads. The real losers are the kids that buy a sub-$10k Suzuki sport bike to ride at 120mph on public roads, endangering everyone because they can't afford a track day with full gear.
@@Merc399Do what,bro you're just saying dumb stuff now like for real because no matter how overpriced and overrated Harleys are especially in my opinion, they're still DEFINITELY real motorcycles bub so I'd say you need to know what you're talking about before speaking on something that you CLEARLY have no idea what you're talking about!
I enjoy my Honda Sabre 1100. metric cruisers for life. doesn't leak oil, or leave me stranded. only very basic maintenance. Great bike.
Spoken never by any harley owner , lol ..
"If you want to work on motorcycles, buy a Harley. If you want to ride motorcycles, buy a Honda."
Harley’s are old school tech compared to the Japanese bikes.
I had one. Shaft drive with lock nut-adjustable valves, so low maintenance, not to mention comfortable, smooth and fast.
Yes I had a Honda Magna 1100 and as you said was a nice bike. However when you ever need anything fixed for these I have found it to be nearly impossible to get parts. Harleys are much easier to find parts for
All my life I have ridden two brands, Harley and Honda. I think you are spot on in your assessment. HD made a huge mistake dropping the air cooled sportster like they did.
Yes I agree, they don't have a good bike for less money anymore.😢
Yea. Then they discontinued the Dyna line super glide in favor of the more cheaply made Low rider.
I think one has to go a lot deeper. Who made the decisions that turned America's economy from a manufacturing one into a service economy? Many good paying blue collar and middle class jobs in manufacturing died. I listened to our illustrious politicians in both major parties extolling the virtues of free markets etc. This was years ago when the average Chinese factory worker made about 62 cents an hour. How in hell does America compete in a world economy with that? I am 75, a student of history and a Navy veteran which means I have seen a lot in my time. It is hard for me to believe that this deeper reality and deliberate sabotage of my country by our own politicians and big wheels in banking and finance. I remember when Harley built a 350 cc bike that was affordable. But you are right about the new culture of inclusiveness being part of it. I despise racism and bigotry and always have. I don't know what the answers are but you have hit the nail on the head!
@wa1ufo We can't compete with low wage countries in manufacturing labor we make it up in high-end services. Don't confuse the service sector with waiters. Every high-speed rail, bridge or dam in China was built with many high-end services from the US and Europe. Economist will tell you that a service economy is where a mature well-maintained economy will end up. China right now is blowing up because they seem to only know how to do manufacturing. If they don't solve it and get their service sector growing their economy will suffer. If you followed economics in the 80's and 90's you will certainly remember how Japan was taking over the world with their manufacturing. They couldn't maintain it and struggled to move to the larger service sector that they have now. The US economy is the envy of the world with better GDP growth, higher wage growth, lower inflation!, lower gas prices than all other modern economies. The problem is not everyone benefits from our great economy and every attempt to help those left behind is met with a big FU freeloader!
You made some good points but here is a reason why I am a little spooked. Somewhat north ot me a huge transformer for our power grid had to be replaced. It had to be ordered from China as they are not manufactured here! A country with GE and Westinghouse doesn't make this transformer which is very critical for our grid here. So it was ordered from China. It arrived in a seaport on the east coast and it required a special trailer to haul it up to its location. This makes me wonder about other critical parts that our power grid needs on occasion. Any huge solar storm could cause major damage to our grid from the EMP when it hits. In any case, with Putin, that mental case in N.Korea and our sun which has the ability to bring down our grid I think we need to bring back the manufacture of those items.
I forgot to mention that, after the order was placed, It took over two years to arrive!
@@wa1ufo That is a legit concern. I work with some folks in the Government that handle this type of issue for the military. I'm not aware of an agency that handles that kind of stuff for our infrastructure, but rest assured that if a big problem occurs then someone will care. I'm a capitalist, but there are many instances where the Government does need to get involved to protect an industry for national security reasons.
@@wa1ufo Harley never built a 350 bike. They were made in Italy .
Well done video. 🙏🏻 As a Gen Xer myself, I have incredible sympathy for Millennials and the generations behind them. The wealth gap is real--and an absolute tragedy.
I actually prefer heavy bikes, but the Japanese have perfected that too, and that's why i love my 97 Honda Valkyrie. It will run circles around any HD and an excellent value
Yup, my Honda is 2002 VTX1800 R. Made in Ohio.😊. Immaculate, 1-owner, 3 grand.
I've been riding street bikes for 44 years, and still haven't found a better bike than the Valkyrie. The one motorcycle that I definitely will still own the day I die will be my 2001 Interstate.
it's the greatest cruiser ever made, in all of history. i wish they'd make them again. i would buy one on the spot.
My buddy had two Valkyries, then a Rune. He said it was like riding a couch going down the highway. He's on a Goldwing now, but always misses his first V
I'm really considering a used Subaru boulevard 109R. They look pretty damn good.
I’m on the old end ofmillennials at 40. I have a Yamaha v star 650. It was my first road bike. Decades on dirt bikes but never got into road bikes until my late 30s. Honestly I thought I would one day “upgrade” to a Harley, but never will. Grew up reading easy rider etc, and now a days I think metric chops are what most fit the spirit of the 70s chopper scene. Making the most out of what you got and what your capable of. The v star puts a smile on my face, is easy to tinker with, 20 years of cheap parts, and I’ll likely ride it until I can’t ride anymore.
Good choice. If you decide to upgrade, look at a used Roadstar. I've ridden street bikes for over 35 years and owned Honda, Kawasaki, Suzuki and Yamaha. My first Yamaha was the vstar 650, upgraded to the vstar 1100, but after riding my Roadstar 1700 and a few Harleys, the roadstar will be my last.
My first bike was a vstar 1100 one of the best bikes I’ve ever owned out of all the bikes I’ve ridden the only Harley I’d consider buying is a vrod lol I now ride and 07 zx14 and honestly the Japanese bikes are where it’s at that and not every bike looks the same unlike Harley’s “wow 13 people in the pack have a orange and black street glide”
I rode a V-Star 650, and had a Harley Sporster 1200 1997. If you try the Sporster, you wont be able to like your V-Star anymore. Dont believe me, just check by yourself...
"Newcomers like Royal Enfield"
R.E. are building bikes since 1901 😅😅😅
The one mechanic at my Indian dealership said he switched to Indian 4 years ago when his Harley-Davidson's engine blew up at 55,000 now he has 68,000 Miles on his Indian and it still runs great. He's been riding for 40 years. He said after the engine blew up he had enough with Harley and those are the bikes he rode before going to Indian.
I had a gold wing I sold when it had 180.000 miles on it.
@@mikedineen7857 that's amazing. I've never rode one but I hear nothing but good things about the gold wing. I learned the basics on a little Honda monkey then I bought my scout a year later. Honda and Indian both hold a special place in my heart.
Millennial here and just bought my first bike this past year. At first I wanted a Harley and had my eye on the Nightster but just couldn't justify the 13k + price tag. Like you said, even the pre-owned inventory was expensive. Eventually I bought a Royal Enfield Interceptor and I really love it. Looks great and lots of fun at a fraction of the price. When I decide to upgrade, not sure Harley will even be a consideration after exploring the options from Europe and Japan.
you should have bought a Honda Rebel ..they only cost $11,000 dollars
The interceptor 650 is a mighty fine bike that you should be proud of. I’ve owned the Royal Enfield Continental GT 535 and 650. The newer 650 was night and day better all the way around in quality and power compared to the 535. You made a great choice on that interceptor! One of the smoothest engines and shifters I’ve ever experienced. Make sure to take a look at Moto Guzzi motorcycles. Shaft drive, easy to maintain, and sounds like a built small block Chevy muscle car. The V7 850 series would be a fantastic choice!
@@donniebaker5984Honda Rebel $11k, Royal Enfield $6500, huge difference. Royal Enfield has the right idea, I own the GT 650, super cool, smooth, reliable, and so affordable. I looked at the Rebel, can’t justify the price.
Same boat - I went with a Honda Fury, myself. Haven't looked back.
Let me explain the whole big picture. HDs are an investment, along with being the best looking, sounding bikes period. They keep there value and alot actually increase as they age. Riceburnners don't. They are perishable items like brake pads and fan belts
Gen x 51, I've had 11 motorcycles so far never even considered a harley ever
There is a generation that didn't grow up watching "Easy Rider" & they don't want to look like their Harley riding grandparents. I do believe that is a factor in Harley sales. They're selling an identity not engineering.
Easy Rider made me mad that I wasted 2 hours of my life watching it.
Great video. I'm an older millennial that owns two cheap second hand bikes, an old K100 and a KLR. Hard to beat German and Japanese engineering. My dad owns a HD. The only way I'll ever own a HD is if I inherit it. But I'd sell it immediately. Zero appeal to me. I'd rather buy second hand Japanese old bikes and fix them up these days over buying new. I've decided to work less in my life than have new shiny expensive things.
You meet the nicest people on a Honda.
Heh Heh Heh... the Honda marketing crew nailed it! Hahahaha
Im 34 and was looking at a 2023 street glide. I was laughed out of the delarship and had 7k ready for a down payment. I ended up just buying a buddy's 06 Hornet 919 he just bought a street glide. Had straight pipes clipons the bike runs great. Hevent looked back. Im the one laughing now. I havent riden in 12 years and this $900 cb is making me pleanty happy.
Laughed out? Why so?
When I bought my 2021 Sportster S I felt nothing but love at the dealership.
And the last 2 Harley meet ups I went to there were sport bikes, nakeds, etc and everyone was vibing with each other.
I grew up in Chicago and we have a HUGE polish community. I recently moved to Kentucky and there a growing polish community here as well lol. You guys love your motorcycles too! I really love your channel, you have great honest content. Thank you
I still have my first and only Harley. A 1995 fxstsb springer softail that I bought used in 98. With routine maintenance and always being garage kept it still runs and looks as good as the day I bought it. For me it’s been a fun bike to own. With a large aftermarket and its mechanical simplicity it’s an easy bike to work on for the diy owner. It’s not fast and doesn’t stop on a dime but I still get a grin whenever I throw a leg over it. There’s a few newer Harley’s that I like. The Breakout, Fatboy and the Street Glide look great but after owning the Springer for 25 years I could never get rid of her. She’s part of the family
These are the Harleys to buy. Those Evos keep going ifyou care for them
Man you are making me feel bad now... I own a 883 XL low 2008 and i'm currently thinking about selling it to get a new royal enfield 650. She's like my first love but i know her destiny would be to sit inside the garage if i decide to keep her. Its a decision that's breaking my heart...
Never understood why anyone would pay 25k+ for a motorcycle thats not hitting 200mph
I’ll help you. Not everyone wants to go that fast
@@djrandizz there are bikes that dont go that fast that are also not 25k+
@@RudeXII there we go, progress! So if it isn’t speed maybe it’s… style? A feeling that machine invokes? A culture surrounding bike?
@@djrandizz if you just want a stylish cruiser, again, they make those and they don't all cost $25k+ so what are we doing here? Harleys are overpriced and they aren't even good
@@RudeXII sounds like you’ve chosen that you don’t want to understand
As a millenial, I definitely like Harleys. They seem like great bikes and I love the way the touring chassis bikes move. For 28k out the door though, that price is disgusting for something that has a fraction of the performance of my Concours 14 I got for $6,500 used. They are cool bikes, but I totally can't justify spending that amount of money on a bike like that.
You can't compare your Concours to a Harley, two completly different types of bikes built for completely different purposes.
I owned a concourse and roadglide and can tell you they arnt comparable but both are amazing in their own right
LMFAO , So you bought a Used Concourse but didn’t have the brain power to justify buying a used Harley? Evos are the most reliable Harley’s ever made, Twin Cams are also excellent bikes and I’ve never paid more than $5000 for them. My Softail is parked next to my Honda, and my KTM race bike. To each their own.
their middle of the pack bike cost 20 to 25 grand. now I do have a harley cause yea I love the look but I also had a 2010 v star 950 that cost me 3 grand. my buddy had a sporster 1200 that cost him 9k and guess which bike was was faster. not by a little but by alot
@@WADEPH33R3 The V Star and the Sportster aren't built to be fast. Both will easily surpass posted speed limits, how much faster is irrelevant.
I’m a younger millennial (30) and I ride a Harley but I’d never buy a new one from a dealership.
Amen.
"Whatever HD can do, a motorbike can do better"
Yes.
I love watching HDs get smaller and disappear, in my Z H2 mirrors. It doesn't take long!
I have a favorite biker bar. 99% of the attendees roll in on their Harley's on bike night. Everyone turns around when a new bike enters the parking lot and looks to see what's coming... when it's just another Harley, they look for a half a second and then turn back to their beers. But when someone rolls in with a different kind of bike, everyone looks and keeps looking, and if it's a cool bike, they gather around it and check it out. So the bottom line is - you can't stand out when you buy the same "ME TOO!" Harley that everyone else has.
If you don't mind getting greasy, you can buy old 80s/90s Jap bikes quite cheap. Guys bought the bikes cuz they were cool. Had a close brush with death, or married, kids and the bike got parked in the garage ansdd slowly pushed back into the far corner covered with christmas decoration boxes. Low miles, maybe a few scuffs n scratches from storage. Clean the carbs, new tires, fluids. A 30 - 40 yr old Jap classic fires up the "I remember those" comments and stories ensue. I still have my '83 Honda VF1100C aka V65 Magna. I don't ride, got old n crippled.
If this is why you buy a car or bike, you're a loser
Hehe. Different "me too" movement with a similar result.
Exactly why I didn't buy a Harley when I started riding again in 2007. I wanted to wear a helmet, and I didn't buy into the "badass" persona. I bought a Victory and loved it. Since then I've moved into ADV bikes and won't look back. I think if Harley wants to survive, they should start building dual sports and start widening their focus.
The Pan America is a mighty fine ADV Bike.
@@timh6845 The Panam is the best bike I've ever ridden, I absolutely adore it. I didnt try its closest competitor, the BMW 1300, but I just cant get over the horizontally opposed twin aspect. Got my Panam for 14k with extras too lol, certified pre owned so I still get 2 years warranty!
They need to build low hp and displacement bikes cheap to get new riders in.
@timh6845 I'm sure it is but it weighs 900lbs and has too much power for new riders. Not to mention the cost.
Millennials aren’t 18 anymore@@ADobbin1
I'm a gen z and I bought my Harley Davidson Sportster recently and i plan on eventually upgrading to a 883 iron once my first one is paid off
I think you hit the nail in the head with both reasons. As a millennial, I don’t want to be associated with those exclusivity clubs. It also doesn’t help that Harley riders DON’T WAVE BACK!!!
I own a Harley and wave to everyone on two wheels. Not all of us are dicks.
Would you like a tissue?
Boo hoo. The wave is not a big deal. I've met metric riders that are just as douchey to me on my Harley as the Harley guys are when I'm on my metric bike. It's the person not the bike and those people are everywhere.
I haven’t had a Harley yet not wave back in Roanoke, Virginia.
Thought that was only a Korean thing. Damn
Gen X Harley Street Glide lover here. I spend half my time in South America, (Work in oil and gas) and the only option down there was a Honda XR150. It was 2,000 usd, light as a feather, perfect for dirt roads or street. Perfect for lane splitting, and a lot of fun. I looked at some new CVO's at home, 50,000-60,000 dollars. I got three boys-- going to buy three Honda XR-150's for their first bikes.
3 of the same bikes sounds kind of boring... I don’t blame you though. They’re affordable, reliable, and fun. But you made me reflect on my past with your comment. I grew up with an older brother and my dad, and each of us always had something to ride around the farm. Since I was the youngest, It was kind of exciting to know that one day I would get my brothers bike, he would get my dad’s, and then one day, I would get my dads. And we went through this “cycle” all those years growing up, and so many different bikes. I wish I still had every one of them. But if they were all the same bikes, than I would only need one. Lol... But you do you. Sounds like an easy enough plan, and one that will definitely work.
Thanks for sharing! I tested that bike on the channel this past summer and liked it a lot. That's real value for the money.
They shouldn't have killed Buell. It was a very short sighted decision. That was their entry level, their sports/sports touring division and the brand that gave them cachet outside the cruiser market. The Pan America is nice but it's about a couple decades late. I agree with this video, but I'd highlight that it's a real thing that HD was made for American roads. If you want the big, torquey, comfortable v-twin that eats up cross continental highway miles, you're always going to look at a HD bike. And that kind of bike is just fundamentally always going to make sense in the US market.
Killing the 883 for cheap chinese 500s is also bad. Tney could have sold it to an Indian brand who would deliver it to America and Europe for Half the price and 4 times the reliability!
Harley makes good tourer, but nobody does it like the Goldwing. They may get a rep of 'Old Man Bikes' but they really are incredible machines
@shadow_realm47 they had no choice on the 883 front. The EPA forced them to kill that bike cause of the engine not meeting newer bullshit redtape standards.
Buell did not sell well. Plain and simple. The margins were small they make much more on the Chinese made 500 tho I can't imagine why anyone would want one except to say I own a Harley. Their Italian made ones were pretty good and cheap but the dirt bikes were slow even by dirt bike standards.
@@nicholasbrowning4558 If you walked into a HD dealership 20 years ago, if they had any Buell bikes at all it would only be the Blast. To be fair, the Blast did it's job and probably taught tens of thousands of people to ride motorcycles. If you look on craigslist or marketplace, you can probably find a dozen blasts, so it's still teaching people to ride. But Harley never properly pushed or supported Buell. If you wanted to buy Buell's sports tourer or ADV bike, the odds were the nearest dealership that stocked one was hundreds of miles away. There were always reports from day one of HD dealerships refusing to order parts or service Buell bikes, and then when Buell inevitably failed to be profitable they blamed Buell.
It's typical HD short sightedness. They had no plans or enthusiasm for pushing MV Augusta bikes either, but the fortune they spent acquiring it would have paid for a decade of Buell's operating costs. Where's HD now? They pushed nostalgia(heritage) at premium prices, and now they have a geriatric customer base and a reputation for producing overpriced chrome highway ornaments for gullible boomers. Anyone could have seen this coming from 20 years ago.
I am 55 and have owned four metric bikes before now. I snatched up a low mileage 2005 Harley Heritage Classic at an auction for a very good price. It is everything a Harley experience should be. Living in Canada we only have half a year to ride so the usage of the bike and the enjoyment of riding is somewhat limited. So spending a full ticket price for a Harley is discouraging. However, the advice in this video about seeking out a used Harley is quite sound as the build quality and aftermarket support is very good. I think that th e market is really the problem for the manufacturers. As riders, we have lots of choices; many great choices. Go find what you like at a price you like. You can only ride one at a time. And these are not like spouses, so you can change them for another quite readily for little penalty!
That was truly a masterpiece my friend. I don't know how anyone could have said it any better than the way that you did. What's to add! Well done my Canadian friend!!! You get an A+ for sure!!
I agree, he's the best.
Agree with everything you said. Unfortunately, harley keeps raising prices without adding any features to justify the price increase. They will sell you a bike that has the exact same specs as it did 3 years ago for 30% more today. They lack some of the most basic electronic features that Japanese bikes offer at one-third of the price. The accessories catalog is ridiculously overpriced, and you absolutely need some options to make the bike worth your time. Harley is banking too much on their brand, and at the end of the day, my hard earned cash will not be filling up some complacent and greedy company's pockets.
All I need to say is that I have owned a 750 Norton Commando since 1973 and I can ride it any day of the week. Out of 12 bikes that I have owned since 1969, this is the one I kept and restored.
You being a mechanic as I am makes us completely irrelevant to new bike sales AND immune to everything that killed the British motorcycle industry. No one who was not a mechanic or rich enough to pay one belongs or belongs on vintage British motorcycles which are delightful technical artifacts but not at all suited to NORMAL use. My fellow Nortonistas are often so immersed they forget we are irrelevant and that no one would buy a new one except for the few who pay CNW or Kenny Cummings to create what is essentially a new Commando. (I've a 750 Commando and 850 Interstate plus the usual three or four more in bits.)
I'm 60 years old ,had around twenty bikes in my life. From Japanese to British to Italian , now riding a low rider 1690 and loving it . Each to their own 😊
Like you said a year ago, Harley should have built the Super Meteor.
I do think there'd be a market for the Bronx, although whether it's big enough to fund the development is a question. Slightly overweight and underpowered would only bother spec sheet warriors. Only one in a thousand riders could actually ride any current litre bike to its potential in anything other than a drag race.
Harley needs bikes in the 5k-10k range to stay relevant on the large scale. RE is killing them in this area.
And now Royal Enfield is kicking in the doors whooping up on HD market share
Good point. I'd like to have ridden the Bronx to compare. I think that a Super Meteor sized, air cooled 750-900cc M8 bike under 10K would serve Harley well. Unfortunately they do a great job with their upscale bikes but are not good at designing their entry level offerings.
@@Ntmoffi I disagree. You can buy many used Harleys if you can only afford $5-$10k. There are already plenty of budget bikes for those on a budget.
150 hp at the crank is underpowered?
I totally agree. Im a 64 yr old old school biker who's just bought his last bike. I bought a 2021 Harley Davidson Fat Bob 114 that was ridiculously expensive. It a real pleasure to ride but after customizing it a little it came out the door at over $30,000.00 with all its warranties. I could have bought two Japanese bikes and still had enough for a box of beer.How many 20 - 35 yr olds have 30K laying around to put out on something they only put a few miles on every year? Everybody loves my bike until I tell them what I've got into it. WTF everybody says !
All the old school bikers I know actually ride their bikes daily or damn near. They don't buy a bike for a specific season. If you are only riding a few times a year you are not a biker.
I don't get it. I'm the same age as you, and have been riding on the street since age 16. Bought my first new bike at age 20, a Yamaha XS650. I've always wanted a Harley, but by the time I could afford one at MSRP in the mid '90s, they were selling for twice MSRP. I finally got my first Harley, a 14 year old FXRS, in 2003. H-D has not made anything I would even consider riding for almost 10 years. I don't consider myself a biker, even though I have owned around 50 bikes, and have ridden close to a million miles. I don't wear the "pirate" costume that I associate with "outlaw bikers". I ride Harleys because I love the look, sound, and feel of older Harleys. The new smooth, quiet, flat black H-Ds just don't do it for me.
Two Japanese bikes and a world of reliability and performance.
As a new rider many years ago, I aimed to get a HD, I didn’t, I got my car licence and went 2 decades on 4 wheels. I had an urge to get on two wheels again. I did look at the Sportster and the 48 but tbh, the cost new, then depreciation and thought I’d give it a miss. I got a pre owned 883 Sportster ultra low mileage, saved thousands, used it, hated it, got rid of it! Went Triumph route instead 👍
Harley's only real way to survive imo is to go to watchmaker route by making their bikes as expensive and show-offy as they can and hope people fall for it.
Same as pickup trucks
As a millennial, I love my Harley! I bought it used but it is by far my favorite bike I've owned. Its crusty and old and by no means perfect but it puts a smile on my face.
I love mine too. I'm also a millennial born in '87 and I've wanted a Harley all my life. Now I'm on number 3. (#2 was sadly stolen). We'll buy Harleys when we can.
100% agree with the video. Hit everything spot on. I'm a millennial and it pretty much read my mind for the past 3 years. I own a Harley, but for the exact reason mentioned in the video, used = cheaper ... and I'm aware that I'm out preformed by others on similar metric bikes.
After 30 years on BMW's I switched to a Sportster (bike #31) and I'm glad I did it. I needed to get back to basics. You have to harden yourself up to life on a bike. It did take me 4-6 weeks to get used to it. I was riding 2 hours a day all year around and have for years. I can see why a lot of younger guys get off of a super slick Japanese sport bike and end up not liking a Harley, because for one, the never lived on the their sport bike to start with. I'm 72 and have been on bikes since the mid 60's. I went the British route first with Triumphs, BSAs and Nortons. Then went on to BMWs when all of those dealers collapsed and blew away and using a British bike for every day use was a dead end. I'm retiring next week and I wanted something easy to work on, plus parts availability. It wasn't until 2 years ago that we got a new car, so I could use the spare for bad days. I endured it all for over 50 years. Snow, icy roads, storms, wind , rain, heat , traffic, animals, things falling off of farm trucks, logs, farm animals and after it all I'm still here. 🙂
respect!
@helmuthare I found a nice 2011, garage kept with 6800 miles on it 2.5 years ago. I wanted a 1200 , but this 883 was spotless, and I knew I would a long time before I found another this nice. I was in the bike business at one time and became a pretty good judge of horse flesh. Some of the reasons I got it was because I was retiring and didn't need boat anchor bike payments and parts in Germany. I'm 72, and I'd rather stay on 2 wheels, that I can easily afford, than have a bike with hard to get parts.
Back in the early 80s. I was 14 maybe 15 years old. No drivers license yet. One of the neighbors was given a wrecked Harley Davidson dirtbike. The forks were bent backwards so far that the tire was touching the frame or the engine. We’re just a bunch of teenagers , kids if you will. Anyway we pulled the forks with the rim on it far enough so it was rideable. And that’s the way it was ridden . For a long long time. Just a bunch of us learning to ride a bike. Man that thing was beat up. But it ran. And it was cool. I’d love a reasonably priced Harley Davidson dirtbike.
Great video buddy, we bought a brand new Road Glide Ultra in 2016, sold it after a year, lost 10k and went back to my DR650. Worst bike I've owned yet was the Harley over $40k out the door with zero extras. My Dr650 was $8500 out the door with a 5 year warranty added for $450ish. Harley has sold out to greed decades ago, if not for those who still love to dress up in cosplay on the weekends Harley would be done for.
DR650 is awesome - had one, never a problem. Sold it for about the same after 4 years. Try the new Fat Boy & have 2 in the garage, lol. All the best.
@user-bt6vy8df4w I will never buy from HD again not since 2006 when I got my dyna super glide. My 2013 HD Road Glide Ultra I got from a private non HD dealer and love it. I really like the look of the 120th anniversary Road Glide but I can wait until someone trades one in at the privately owned non HD shop. I will always love HD bike's I've grown up on them. But I am not a fan of the HD company they turned on the customer.
It’s a “life style” choice.😂. Join the branded.
@@mygreatbigfoot1679 wtf you talking about join the branded? Why say something like that to someones personal opinion? Kinda rude..
@@chainshishd9127😀🫵It’s a brand ain’t it grand.
Well said. You nailed it. Rode bikes as a kid. Now I'm 50 and want a cruiser again. I could afford a Harley, just couldn't justify paying that when I believe the Yamaha Stryker is better engineered. And also much cheaper.
I'm a millennial who has been riding for three years. Got almost 30k miles under my belt so far. I ended up buying a third gen Honda Magna and I absolutely love it. I didn't buy a Harley for a few reasons... #1 is definitely the value. I want something cheap enough to where if I mess up and drop it, I'm not going to be crying for days. Even a $10,000 bike was completely out of the question. #2 is performance - I wanted something fun, quick and at a manageable weight. When the lightest bike in the lineup is 700lbs and is only pushing 50 hp I gotta look elsewhere. #3 - I wanted something more unique than the billions of V-twin bikes running around. #4 - Harley culture is annoying. Unfortunately the Harley stereotypes have only been reinforced since I've been riding. If I pass another rider and give them the wave and it's not returned it's almost certainly going to be an older guy on a Harley. To be fair, it does seem to be a minority. Maybe my tastes will change as I get older. Who knows?
Right on!
The reason I would never owned a Harley with a real Harley motor is they can't be internally balanced they can only be between two RPMs rangers. That's why I love the V-Rod well design well-balanced motor.
I’m 73 and still ride. You’re right on all points. I bought into Harleys because of resale value. Now there’s so damn many and everyone wanted to be a Harley guy or girl. There wasn’t a lot to choose from back in the day. Offshore products were a challenge to find parts and fasteners to fix your ride. You had to be your own mechanic so there’s that.
I'm a millennial. The typical image of the Harley rider in my mind for a long time was an overweight old guy. When I was looking to get my first street bike, I wanted the Softtail Slim S in olive green. A buddy had one and I thought it was the coolest looking bike (like a WW2 throwback). Local dealer had a used one. I went back to buy it a few months after checking it out, and for no reason at all it was $2k more. Another buddy who rode Victory told me to check out Indian. It seemed like a cooler brand, had a lot of excellent performance options. So I chose the FTR Rally (wasn't even looking for that style of bike at the time, lol). It reminded me of my dirt bike growing up, so I figured it's be a good transition bike to street riding. When I go to get that big bagger, I'm already sold on the Challenger for many of the same reasons.... Don't get me wrong, I like Harley. I follow a lot of younger folks on IG doing cool things with them. I just think I found what I was looking for with Indian.
You're right about the image. When people ask me if I want a harley, or if I own one. I always say (as a bit of a joke) that I'm too young for a harley.
Boomer here. Never owned a Harley, never will
Cruiser pipes are too close to my right leg and I burned my calf on one so I think that makes me an expert. Beware when they say, "Throw your leg over it and see how she feels". Now Triumph uses a parallel twin and the pipe comes out in front and is wrapped forward and beneath the foot pegs. Great job Triumph!
I'm a Millenial, i'm a Gal, and i just bought a Harley.
Mind you, a second-hand Sportster 883 Iron from 2012, but as far as second-hand motorcycles are concerned, there wasn't a huge difference in price between the brands. There might have been before Covid, but now any half-decent second-hand will set you back at around 8000€ easy.
I know for a fact that i'm probably not going to stick with my Sportster forever though, i'll want to upgrade eventually, but when i look at the current prices, whether new or second-hand, i'm having trouble imagining dunking twice the price of my car in a motorcycle.
Find someone who knows what they’re doing, upgrade the 883 with a big bore kit to a 1250. Idk how big you are or your riding style but that should be all the power you’d want if everything else on the 883 is to your liking
@@rollyourownRandF I'm 175cm / 5'8"ft, i like riding straight with my feet in the middle, the default position of my 883 suits me fine, i'm not fond of forward pedals.
@@Tomcat_Centauri What are you wanting out of your sporty? Like what would make you change from it?
@@rollyourownRandF Right now i wouldn't want to change anything, i don't really have a lot of experience yet to be able to say what i really want out of my bike. I want to ride with some friends, do some scenic roads, perhaps a small road-trip somewhere so i can really get a good feeling of my bike and what i'd like to "upgrade" or change.
Technically i don't even have my license yet, i still have to pass the driving and manoeuvres exam, and i crashed recently (with the driving school bike, not mine fortunately) and broke my wrist, so i can't ride at all as i have a cast right now 😅
@@Tomcat_Centauri that sucks, honestly a set of crash bars and a parking lot to practice low speed maneuvers helps a lot. Obviously not much you can do with a broke wrist though, hope you recover soon and get back on it!
Well said. This toxic culture of excluding people (celebrated by a minority, as you said) has also killed the off-road-scene here in Germany. Besides that, Harley's quality reached it's peak with the, to a great extent, Porsche-engineered EVO in the Nineties. What came after, was certainly not flawless.
Harley had their peak and they got drunk off it. Once that drunken state wore off, and they scrambled to attract international consumers, that's when they realized just how far they've been left behind by other brands from Europe and Japan.
Porsche did not engineer the EVO, they participated in engineering the V-Rod. The EVO hit the market in 1983/84, not the 1990's. It is in fact a Harley patented design. The fact is that Harley club riders don't care what you ride unless you are in the club. So the feeling you have are generated 100% from your own sense of inadequacy, and nothing else. That's the same for every limp wristed whining person that acts that way, including the whining POS in the video.
You've just hit the nail on the head. Pure and perfect presentation 👍🏼
I’m 78, and have been riding for 65 years. When I was young, I rode Hondas, starting with the CB750, and ending up with the V65 Sabre. Then when I was a bit older and more conservative in my tastes, I switched to Triumphs. I am currently riding my 3rd Triumph Bonneville. But between Bonnies, I snuck in a Harley. My wife decided she wanted to ride with me, and wanted one of those cushy queen seats with arm rests and drink holders and her personal stereo. So, I sold my Triumph, and bought a Harley CVO Ultra Limited, with a stage three performance kit added. They didn’t have stage four back then. It set me back almost exactly 50 grand. I have a very clear memory of my very first ride on my new Harley. I rode down the street, shifting up through the gears. I thought to myself, "I feel like I’m operating a piece of farm machinery!” I felt like I was sitting IN the bike rather than on it. I kept and rode the Harley for three years, after which my wife decided she’d had enough, and didn’t want to go riding any more. I sold the Harley, and bought my present Triumph Bonneville. And, I’m a happy camper once again. I love riding a motorcycle that feels and operates like a motorcycle.
The sportster was the gateway that brought people in. It was affordable and made the barrier for entry manageable. Now when models im shopping for are the same price as my car....yea im shopping used. Love Harley bikes but man they need to step back and bring something 10k or lower to the market if they want to stand a chance.
I used to hate Harleys and their riders until I started riding. Spent 3 weeks in the saddle last year traveling 2500 miles via the IDBDR on my T7. After long hours in the saddle, I get why people love their big bikes.
But I love single track, two tracks, forest service roads, and the wilderness more than highways so I’m willing to sacrifice long distance comfort for a bike designed to travel on rougher surfaces.
To each their own. I’d love to take a day cruise on a big, cumbersome HD someday just to experience it but have no desire to ever own one.
As a 31 yr old, who started riding on and older carbureted sportster 1200c, 6th season in, I still have that bike, bc I love the Harley feeling, totally different riding experience. That being said I wanted something a little sporty-er, got and sv650 that was substantially newer, less miles, for less money. Then last year came, saved up a bunch of cash, had planned on going to my local Harley dealer with over half of the msrp on a new street bob, was in love with the looks of that bike, thought it would be a great replacement for the sportster, only to find out they were wanting to charge me nearly 5g’s over msrp, with that exact mentality that you mentioned of how good a deal it is, told my brother who was they’re with me if he wants a real bike let them know(he has a mt09), couldn’t have been a worse experience. And that’s as someone who loves the bikes and the brand, but that was terrible
Following that up I went to the triumph Detroit and Ducati Detroit dealships, both of which couldn’t have been nicer. Want so much more out of Harley Davidson
Get a 40$ GENUINE HD BANDANA WHILE THERE?
HD.
GOOD RIDENCE
Comparing old sportster with MT09 is like comparing 19-century sailing ship with modern aircraft carrier. One is very nice-looking and another is actually useful.
As a millennial, why on earth would I buy a Harley? So old men can think "hes part of the lazy generation but at least he has a cool bike"? No thanks. If I had the amount of money it costs for a Harley just lying around, there's about 100,000 other things I'd buy first to improve the quality of my life. If I really was in the market for a bike, there's better and more reliable brands at a fraction of the cost of a Harley. Also, every old dude I've known who has/had a Harley has had a ton of mechanical problems. No Thanks
Millennial's dad's bikes are Harleys. Their grandpa's bikes were original Honda CB 750s, Kawasaki Z-1, Z-900s & 650s, Suzukis, 4 cylinder Goldwings, Yamaha XS650s, various Motoguzzis, Nortons, and air cooled BMWs.
Guess I'm a grandpa - old hondas, triumphs, BMW airheads from 60's and 70's. Massive amount of character in these bikes. For all those bikes, you could not buy one new Harley. New bikes way too gadgetized. If you must have a Harley, used is the way to go. Friends in a motocycle club have HD's from 40's-70's. I would like one of those, but very expensive.
I'll be 40 next week and, FWIW, both my father and grandfather rode Harleys.
@@Okayymatt Your father and grandfather were definitely both O.G's. Those AMF Harley Shovelheads were NOT easy to keep running and they leaked like a sieve. They probably had busted knuckles, callouses, grease under their fingernails, and smelled like oily gasoline. Those were REAL men. Brass knuckles, jail time, and the good old days of skunk-weed and that old yellow meth they would snort. Us Honda and Yamaha riders were scared of them. I had to give my bud Ricky a lift one day on my Yamaha Virago. He said "Please Lord - don't let anyone see me on this rice burner!" And "I don't want to die on a Yamadog!".
I think a cheap and basic bike, like a scrambler, would be successful. Although it's unlikely, I believe Royal Enfield made it work. A simple bike that just does the job. I've also noticed a shift towards smaller bikes. The XR150L is now available in America, and it's surprising to see people buying it. Perhaps the trend of bigger, faster, and harder bikes is coming to an end.
Harley Scrambler. That’s a great idea. They need to let me design it. They seem to nerd everything out a little.
I was the CT125 was $4000, the same bike in Asia is $1300.
When I first got interested in motorcycles twenty years ago, I was interested in Harleys. But, at 5'6" with a 28" inseam, I could not handle how heavy these bikes are. I wish they would come out with lighter, lower displacement models.
In 2017, I went to buy a Harley, and the service I received made me walk out of the store and go over to Kawasaki... they acted like they were doing me a favor... I love my Vaquero, never been happier...
Incredible that management at HD have ignored the demographics and allowed their market leading position to collapse. If you look at Triumph, it continues to offer an impressive build quality, competitive performance and a range of aesthetically pleasing bikes. However, it has recognised the demographic shift and in 2023 launched a series of new, lower priced bikes which even challenges the Royal Enfield’s low priced, somewhat dated offerings. Triumph has a heritage and brand recognition comparable to HD but, it seems, its management must be a lot more nimble and consumer focused. It would be sad if HD becomes a niche player as you predict but it was noticeable this year that they did not exhibit at the UK’s preeminent national bike show this autumn/fall. This was an omission that did not go unnoticed by many within the biking community. Does this indicate that HD management are withdrawing into a likely flawed strategy, often adopted by large corporations, of cutting costs to maintain short term profitability rather than investing in products for long term success? I hope not.
I would read a bike mfg not presenting at Motorcycle Live as less of an indictment of the mfg and more of trade shows' effectiveness as marketing tools in the modern era. Motorcycle Live as an event is in decline. BMW didn't show at INTERMOT; they already have an established dealer network and vast assortment of social media influencers that will eagerly market for them (and for free). I doubt they'll be at Motorcycle Live next year and I expect won't be the only ones besides HD.
Indeed, Triumph is a great example of a brand that saved its heritage and has stepped into a new age at the same time
Went to the Harley dealer (Australia) earlier this month to buy my dad some new gloves. Every single model was marked "made in Thailand", yet still priced as if hand made in the US.
And the Lamborghini Ducati , 100,000 dollars , walking out shops everywhere , and made in Bologna ,RARARA
Yup. Right on. Gen Xer here. Bought a motorcycle two years ago. Went to several Harley dealers and demo'd a couple of bikes. They were nice, but heavy. Bought a Triumph at about half the cost and much better performance. Couldn't be happier.
Half the price and nearly half the weight 😊
Pay $20000 for what? To do the speed limit? Freedom and Badassery? I'll pay $3000 for a used sport bike, thanks