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VEGETA AND THE KAIOKEN | A Dragonball Discussion
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- Опубликовано: 15 фев 2017
- Vegeta and Goku. The latter has the Kaioken, the former does not. Will Vegeta learn the Kaioken in Dragonball Super? Will the prince of all Saiyans learn one of Goku's greatest techniques? Let's discuss the possibility of that!
Thanks to Tyler Lawson [@TyLaw_25] for the topic suggestion!
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[Bag]
[TM/HM's]
[Kaioken]
Use this TM?
Who should it be used on?
Goku - already knows this move
Gohan - can learn
Krillin - can learn
Yamcha - can learn
Tien - can learn
Vegeta - can learn
Yeah I don't get how Yamcha, Tien and stuff (I forgot how many where there). When they were at King kai in the Namek Saga under Goku vs Frieza, why they didn't ask to learn Kaioken while up there.
Sans The Skelepun I doubt Yamcha can learn that haha
Or put it to good use.
technically anyone and everyone can learn the Kioken. Videl can learn the Kioken. Chi-Chi could learn the Kioken. all it takes is learning how to control your Ki. just saying. I want to see a Kioken x20 Hercule.
+carrejua8 He wasn't that much weaker than Tien when he died. He could have, though it might take a bit longer. There was a gap, but there was also a gap between Piccolo and Raditz, and we know how that ended.
Vegeta didn't succumb to Goku. He succumbed to Goku, Gohan (great ape transformation that ended up crushing Vegeta when he fell on him), Krillin (held the spirit bomb and threw it at the right moment) and Yajirobe (cut off Vegeta's tail eliminating his great ape transformation) I've heard so many people say that Goku was stronger against Vegeta, but he wasn't. Vegeta was CLEARLY stronger. He was the first person to survive the spirit bomb. He lost because Goku had a lot of back up and they came in during key moments in the battle. If it had been 1 on 1 Vegeta would have destroyed the entire planet after killing Goku.
Swing Machine finally someone who knows what there talking about.
The Gank Manifesto it kills me when people say Goku beat him alone. That's a DBZ problem. The whole squad will fight and almost, or actually, die and in the end the narrator says "the world is safe, thanks to Goku." Like wait what now? Even after Gohan and the squad killed Cell, Goku was given all the credit without even being alive at the time.
exactly, Goku aked Krilin to let Vegeta go because he didn't win against him on his own and wanted a rematch with him.
Everyone knows this and most people font care due to vegeta starting off as one of the key dbz villians and all the key dbz villians always get ganged up on but as soon as one of them turns good (vegeta) (buu) goku is instantly stronger than them
Armond Luckey !!! Like when majin buu happened , it was vegeta idea to do the spirit bomb and it was Hercules the one who got the most energy from people yet people act like they didn’t exist and that goku was the one to end majin buu all by himself .🙄
I would rather see Tien master the Kaioken. It would make sense. Tien has full control over his body he would be able to handle any multiplier. We've seen this guy split into 4 people and grow 2 extra arms, he could master it.
Not sure about any multiplier, but could definitely see him mastering x2, x4, maybe near-death times x8
The problem with all of that is that the BODY can only go so far regardless of any other circumstance. SSJ Blue requires IMMENSE stamina, hence why Vegeta and Goku don't use it yet in the Tournament Survival Arc. Goku has a mastery over his Ki to an almost perfect state for who he is and his physical endurance is on a level far above and beyond ANYTHING Tien could ever possibly hope to achieve. The Multiform technique and Six-Witches technique don't require an IMMENSE amount of stamina to use or maintain, Rather the Multiform technique splits the individual's power into the amount of forms that they choose and the Six-Witches technique is basically just manipulating your Ki and Body together.
The Kaioken literally forces your BODY to go beyond it's limits and forces it into overdrive. Think about Overclocking a computer, regardless of how powerful it is it has limits and if you push it too far it WILL actually explode. We see this in the SSJ Blue x10 Kaioken from Goku, when he dropped it his entire body went into violent convulsions that threatened to literally tear itself apart just like King Kai stated when he FIRST taught it to Goku. You can't 'Master' the Kaioken because no matter how powerful you are, it FORCES your body to go BEYOND it's current limits to heights you technically aren't able to actually sustain because they're BEYOND what your body is capable of normally. That's why it damages the body so drastically the higher the multiplier.
A x4 alone is potentially fatal, the fact that Goku has survived a x20 is INSANE and even King Kai has stated as much. In fact King Kai didn't think ANYONE would be able to even GO that far let alone survive it and Goku BARELY survived it. A x10 Kaioken in SSJ Blue puts so much strain on Goku's body that it nearly killed him when he could previously survive a x20 (if barely), In fact if we take the filler episodes into account that x10 SSJ Blue Kaioken fucked his ki control up so much that Goku could barely do anything.
TL;DR
It's impossible to Master the Kaioken.
shit picollo needs it so we dont suffer the saiyan sitcom anymore
Merged Zamasu toriyama only cares about Goku , I don't think he would give tien that much interest
Merged Zamasu it would not change any events
As much as I hate to get meta, we all know the real reason no one else learns the move is because the different moves differentiate the characters. Sure, the entire Turtle school and Gohan use the Kamehameha, it's a narrative device to show their common grounds, but only Krilin uses the Destructo Disk, only Yamcha uses Wolf Fang Fist, and only Gohan uses "Be talked about for twenty episodes, be useful in one, be useless for one hundred"...ken... attack...
LOL
Gohan could have just combined his Masenko Ha and his father/ son Kamehameha together into his own energy wave. Then he could have used that new Ki Wave with his Evil Rise/ Evil Ray Strikes. Even his Charge-Assault skills could have been mixed with it. Gohan did as a 5 year old what Goku only did in his early King Piccolo saga teen years. Made his own skills. That was his own way of fighting.
My mato is stay true to who you actually are! Never let anyone change who you wanted to be! Chichi gave him intellect, Goku gave him power and even during the Cell Games, Training/ techniques. But only Gohan can take his own path! A road less traveled gives insight.
@John Carlton Okay thanks for reminding me since Vegeta was able to remove anyone`s tail if he wanted too! However, in the abridged version from team 4 star, maybe he did that! But in the original, Vegeta was crushed by a falling Great Ape kid Gohan even if Vegeta pulled his tail out!
2:52 Lmao, shapes. "I have found a level beyond Super Saiyan Triangle. Super Saiyan DODECAHEDROOOOOOOOON RAAAAAAAAAH"
Permalight Ha, Beerus, I've finally surpassed you! Check out my new form! SUPER SAIYAN PENTAAGOOOONNNNN!
Permalight if that comes true i will donate my kidney. blood 1 once a week and starve my self for a month
He is the True Super Circle!!!!!!!!!!
I have achieved a level of Super Saiyan beyond anything you could imagine. Super Saiyan Rhombicosidodecahedron.
(It's a real thing)
i am now a super saiyan circle! do i have infinite sides or zero sides?
Kaio-what?
xna9 nth
xna9 kaiocrap
where they become red/ have red aura
TTE gaming it's a inside joke
BOOFIRE191
No seriously, Kaio-what?
i'd like to see Piccolo using the Kaioken
A disciplined warrior like him should be able to use it to it's greatest extent
Never seen vegeta learn a technique from anyone else. Not even whis
Fusion dance doesn't count
what about super saiyan
He didn't learn it from anyone he achieved that by crying in space.
PardonMySanity destructo disc
Um Super Saiyan Blue...
8:02 you mean we're not dealing with the average saiyan warrior anymore?
HowDenKing yes
HowDenKing lmao 😂
HowDenKing Ha lol
Vegeta not learning the Kaio-Ken I can understand.
But why didn't Goku taught or was asked to teach this technique to other warrios? Like, the humans?
They have no transformations to get stronger, and the power multiplier up to 20 would be of great help for them to not being too held back by the saiyans.
MQF II Exactly! It's astounding that more people don't seriously consider this.
MQF II well, Goku doesn't know how strong they are, and remember, if your not strong enough, Kaioken will explode your body, but since Gohan is getting back into fighting, maybe if he gets serious, Goku could teach him Kaioken
Hamzah Elshwike They're stronger than Goku was when he met King Kai. And he can sense ki.
MQF II It was a theoretical technique that King Kai thought might be possible. He himself didn't know it. Goku could do it since he's some sort of savant.
MQF II feel like he kind of learned by now, he's a smart learner. He kind of use the basics of it to use ssj blue beyond
"GRR BUT MY PRIDE, I WISH I WERE A CARROT!"
Arceus Lord of Creation Son of a gum-chewing funkmonster! Why the fruit does all this funny stuff happen to me? Forget my life! Always surrounded by miserable failing clods, like this whole world just likes to bend me over and find me in the Alps! Like I’m some sort of schlop receptacle. Well, as far as I care, these miserable cows can have a fancy barbecue with a God damn pig!
"You can become what you eat, but you are best when you are yourself!" "Even Mr. Popo said that to Goku once!" "He was just a kid!"
I think I have the correct answer for why Vegeta hasn't learnt or at least used Kaioken. The only person who Vegeta has seen use it is Goku, and Vegeta knows this ability really well. Lets say Goku and Vegeta were to fight seriously. Vegeta would over power Goku, and then Goku would be forced to use Kaioken during Super Saiyan Blue. Instead of fighting Goku head on at that point like Hit, or someone else who didn't know how Kaioken works, Vegeta would play smart. He would wait and concentrate on dodging Goku's attacks, waiting for Goku to tire himself out. Once Goku becomes too drained from using the Kaioken at high levels, Vegeta can EASILY end the fight. Its not about fighting harder, but smarter.
Kaio Ken adds stupid levels of speed aside from raw strenght. Vegeta would need to be real fast = not plausable. As well as Goku having Instant Transmition on his side on the speed debate. Goku instants to him 1 shots him, the end. No dodging vegeta could ever do to stop that.
Yulack Listen, this is dragon ball, Vegeta can do what ever the plot demands. If he needs to be agile enough to dodge Goku, he is.
A simple mind of a simple man. Smarter and stronger.
"Exactly right it is intelligence! He is smarter than Frieza saw Vegeta looked!"
@@maximusmech9 yup, ying yang
personally, i want to see him learn something from the other universe sayans, like some royal blood line technique that was lost to the 7th universe. that'd be cool
Baylith katan yes that would be awesome
Other people who need to learn Kaioken: Yamcha, Tien, Krillin, Chiaotzu. And Picollo.
how could you leave off piccolo
Dude weres GOHAN
What was Chiaotzu`s technique called where he exploded again? "I forgot about that one!" Chiaotzu could make Nappa mad by using the: "Sting-Ken After-Ray!" This technique combines Fairwell Mr. Tien, Saibaman Bomb & KaioKen-After-Ray together! After-Ray is the Afterimage-Dodon Ray since Chiaotzu used mimicry during the 22nd World Tournament and the 23rd Tournament saga I don`t remember him participating in that one...
@@KingJB2611 I don't think Gohan needs it. I'm pretty sure this video came out before the tournament of power but in the lead up to the tournament of power Gohan had an idea that he could push the mystic Gohan power even further than he currently has. It didn't actually go anywhere but it would be interesting to see Gohan developing transformations along his own path without God ki or kaioken or anything.
I think Vegeta will probably try and create a new technique that does much the same thing, and probably try to at least reduce the downsides if not remove them completely.
Savage_Wisdom he could do it. Like MasakoX said. Vegetable is a smart, talented fighter and his pride can motivate him to grow beyond what others think capable.
Also by pride I mean pride in himself, his family, his home etc not just his saiyan blood
That I would agree with! Vegeta is tactical enough to do so if needed!
That would be broken, lmao at that point who needs Saiyan forms
if Goku uses Kaio-Ken, Vegeta should use Kaio-Ryu...
rtyuik7 what about kaio-akuma?
Compass Rose kaio-hakuna matata?
Nice
rtyuik7 lol
rtyuik7 vegeta should use kaio-prince of all saiyans it gives u an infinite x also if u use it u die
yeah but unlike goku, vegeta's not stupid. Even the elder kai admits that the idea of using kaio ken with super saiyan is pretty much throwing your life away, Goku said himself that there was a 90% chance of him dying by even attempting the transformation and considering getes has a baby coming i dont think he'll be wanting to tick off super saiyan blue kaioken off his bucket list anytime soon
Apple Lysol hey numbnuts a 100% success rate so far? Apart from that one time against zamasu how many times did Goku use it? Oh right! ONCE! And what did that do throw his ki out of whack for days and tore away at his muscles and they just dragged the fight out which is why you are tricked into thinking that technique could be sufficiently sustained for a long period of time, even disregarding Gokus statement that doesn't take away the fact that vegeta knows that it will be impractical and not worth the risks unless you're overwhelmingly sure you'd be able to finish off your opponent quickly
It's dangerous to run Kaioken long during a fight yes, but used like it was against Zamasu? WHAM! It's too good because Kaioken is basically a free crit. It would be stupid not to learn it
Barney Rubble yeah that's a great point I agree with you, like the case with zamasu using it in short bursts would be ideal but with how ssj blue drains stamina so much, the frequency of use would be some what limited
TrueMachwind:Road2Dawn that's only in the manga not in the actual show!
Apple Lysol didn't you watch the show? thats not the only down side soon after his ki was completely whack, his strength, flight, instant transmission and every other ki based ability was messed up.
later he needed at least a full day to recover.
king kai also explained this move should not be use repetitively nore in extended periods of time as *could* it kill him or cripple him to the point he can no longer fight ot use his ki.
the 90% bs you talked about was one of two which has never truly been debated or proven, it could be every time he uses it theres a 90% chance to fail or simply the first the time he used it a 90% to kill him.
But he has the "That's my Bulma" technique lol. He should wish back king kai and ask him to teach him the kaioken and instant transmission techniques.
king kai didnt teach goku instant transmission
i think he means the Kai Kai tec
Sam The Multimedia Man yeah dude he learned to teleport when he landed in yardrat. He learned it there.
King Kai told Goku he could have taught him the instant transmission when Goku went to visit him during the cell saga but Goku never asked about it before so he didn't.
TwistedShark22 You see, I had heard that from more than just a couple people so I know it's fact, but why was king kai using what looked look instantaneous movement in that scene in the original? I haven't watched that scene in Japanese yet lol.
How is exactly is that Trunks beating Goku? Trunks said he would attack him with all he had and Goku literally blocked it with a finger, laughed then punched him to the ground and ended it.
Masako is confusing it with the manga scene where goku needs to go blue to defeat trunks.
It was a gag type statement! Plus it does not take much for Goku to collect electricity/ Ki and surround his finger with it! That is called Light-Finger Guard! Ki infused aura around his finger capable of blocking it! It is based on skill, + Speed and precision!
Because Goku isnt smart enough to teach, like Piccolo. He could have long taught Kaio Ken and Instant Transmission, to the Z fighters. The thought of letting others in on it hasnt even crossed his mind. Nor has the inevitable and incalculabe amount of mortal death, only so he can show off his MMA skills, for sport and ease his boredom.
He taught Gohan and Pan and Uub in GT.
Goku is insanely smart. Just not the bookworm kinda way.
But why teach them the Kaioken?
taught fusion
To be fair, we don't know the specifics of how Goku got Instant Transmission - it's possible that it can only be obtained from a ceremony that can only be performed by the Yardrats (or it can only be obtained by eating their sick).
Of course, Goku could always just bring his friends to planet Yardrat if that's what it took...
Something people seem to forget is that, before Goku actually learned it, the Kaio-ken technique was essentially theoretical. King Kai invented it, but could never use it successfully. It's something to consider when people all go "why doesn't [ insert Z fighter's name here ] know the Kaio-ken?" Especially when people reference Krillin, Yamcha, etc training under King Kai during the Freeza saga.
That said, I think Vegeta could unlock it, but would ultimately choose not to. It's one of Goku's signature moves, and while surpassing Goku has always been what fueled their rivalry, Vegeta's pride and sense of individualism would, imo, win out over the idea of using a move that is so intricately tied to Goku. He'll surpass that wily Kakarot, but Vegeta will do it his way, just like he always has.
Banjaxed i agree
Banjaxed Great point, and it goes to Goku being a Saiyan savant. Goku learns new Ki techniques very fast, going all the way back to the Kamehameha. Vegeta on the other hand is not a "genius" Saiyan, but likely has more raw ability than any other, including Goku. Vegeta starts higher and has a higher ceiling, but Goku is a genius so he's pushing far ahead of where he should be. The difference between a savant who isn't otherwise very bright, and someone who is very intelligent AND had a "good" upbringing. Goku learns better, Vegeta studies harder. It puts them on a near level playing field, except Vegeta can't perform the equivalent of multi-step calculus in his head.
I'd also agree that it's unlikely anyone else will ever manage to use the Kaioken besides Goku. And even if they do, they won't be able to get it past x1 let alone x10 or x20 or x100. An Alt-universe Goku who was raised as a Saiyan likely couldn't do the Kaioken either... although I could see such a character trying and that being his hubris inspired downfall. It's the combination of Goku's affinity for leaning Ki techniques and his naïveté/serenity. Maybe when Vegeta becomes a grandfather and complelty mellows out, that he'll be in a place to master the Kaioken on his own.
No, the question is, why didn't anyone else who trained with King Kaioh learn either Kaioken or the Genkidama?
Matteo Monellini I think king Kai didn't think he they were strong enough to learn it. goku was a saiyan so he would b able to since he his species is meant for fighting.
Which doesn't go well with the fact that they were stronger than Goku when both arrived, progressed through the training at a faster rate than Goku and got out of the training more powerful than Goku did.
sevach the stain might hav been too much for a human
Matteo Monellini tien learned kaioken in anime
This is probably going to sound like an odd and random request but could you be a little more consistent with spellings I mean if you are going to spell the ō in his name "oh" then spell the ō in the technique "oh" too. I mean his name is 界王 and the technique is 界王拳so if you took fist/ken off the end it would be the same. (And that was "Today on stupid little things that bug me"). Or you could just ignore me, that works too.
Thank you again Masako for taking on my question and turning it into a video! And I love the conversation it's sparked in the comment section below. Ultimately I agree with all of the points you made. Vegeta's pride is at the end of day, is what will keep Vegeta second to Goku. One of Goku's biggest, if not biggest, strengths as a fighter is his willingness to learn and adopt new techniques for his own doing. And I agree with everyone who has said it before, why haven't the other Z Warriors learned the Kaio Ken as well? It would make everything more interesting, especially in terms of making the other fighters be able to somewhat close the gap with Goku and Vegeta. Thank you again so much Masako for the shoutout and making the video, and to the rest of everyone for contributing to the discussion
"Thank you and everyone including Massakox for doing this discussion/ video!" "It sparked my own creativity for new skills I can develop for each character in my own fan-fictions!"
I think there's also another factor besides just pride that prevents Vegeta from learning/using the Kaio Ken, at least with Super Saiyan Blue. His mind. Vegeta doesn't ever bother with Super Saiyan 3 because he saw how quickly it drained Goku of his energy when they were fighting Buu, meanwhile Goku continues to use it as his most powerful transformation up until he attains Super Saiyan God despite the risks. It's likely that Vegeta learned of the long term, delayed drawbacks of the form (considering Goku literally teleported into his wife's room while she was taking a shower by accident, and would've had to explain himself at some point), and decided it wasn't worth whatever power increase you could get from it in a similar way that SSJ3 wasn't useful if you would burn through your energy faster. Goku is more willing to take that risk or gamble because his motivations are getting stronger at any cost and beating strong guys, while Vegeta's desire to train stems from the pride in himself and his warrior heritage. Sure, he could take the time to learn a new technique like the Kaio Ken plus Blue that would allow him to become stronger, but at the risk of injuring himself or becoming unable to ever fight again, but he'd rather focus on growing stronger himself and honing techniques that he can more consistently rely on with less drawbacks.
It would have been cool if right before the tournament we saw him show up in front of King Kai smirking and saying "I'd like you to teach me something..."
Kaioken is from king kai right? Could the others kai's have interesting techniques that the z-warriors could learn?
Seribix Ya, they were all in King Kai's planet for a long while. They all should have learned it or at least 1 or 2 of them. However, that would mean that someone other than Goku or Vegeta could make a difference. We can't have that happen!!!!
I wish they had tho. At least Tien should know it!
Seribix Read your comment wrong. I apologise lol
Seribix That is a good point that I never thought about. It would be awesome if they learned other techniques from our Kai's! Especially, if it is a useful technique!
Goku's body can/could barely take the power.You really think the humans could take it?
only bcus king kai said to not overuse it and goku just said fuck it i am gonna spam the shit out of the kaioken. for kirlin kaioken times 2 or 3 would be just fine
Vegeta should have trained with King Kai, learned Kaioken and picked up Instant Transmission from Goku or the Yardrat inhabitants. After all these years you would think he would have at least tried... EVERYTHING. The only thing he really adopted from Goku was the gravity training. The irony in their personalities is that I feel like he works harder and Goku works smarter...
Cloudstrife-0HCS i think vegeta will train with kaioshin not the king kai
Cloudstrife-0HCS and i more thing buddy goku work harder and vegeta works smarter
Prashant Rajput
Goku *learns game-changing techniques*
Vegeta *adds more weight to gravity training*
You call that smarter?
Chris Ll cuz ur fvcken stupid kid get over it , stop getting butthurt dibshit
Young Draco You wouldn't even know the context of my comment if it had hit you in the face.
Prashant: Cloudstrife-0HCS and i more thing buddy goku work harder and *vegeta works smarter*
Me, right after: Prashant Rajput
Goku learns game-changing techniques
Vegeta adds more weight to gravity training
*You call that smarter?*
I thought something similar. Instead of Vegeta What if Tenshinhan asks Goku to take him to King Kai. We as the audience dont know about going to King Kais planet but there is a scene where Tien says to Goku "can I ask you something" then the scene moves on to some other situation. We dont see Tein until the tournament where he does Kaioken on his opponent. As the audience we then realize thats What Tein wanted to ask Goku. His opponent is still standing and Tien lifts his hands for a spirit bomb and kaioken again, instead this time he's not powering himself up but he powers up the energy he's collecting to make his spirit bomb stronger and grow faster. ... pfftt anything can happen in DragonBall yall know that
Or Piccolo and Gohan.
With how namekians work it would make since if Piccolo learned it instead.
DGDN09 imagine if tien split bodies to charge the spirit bomb faster and acted like backline support
Drew Moyer he would be overpowered!
Finally someone who actually made a Spirit Bomb KaioKen Or Spirit Bomb x3-onwards! I did that with the regular spirit bomb in Dragon Ball Xenoverse 1 and powered it x20!
More like why didn't any of the z fighters that went to king K's planet learn it. If piccolo learned it, he could have abused it maliciously. If tien learned it, he could have killed cell with his tri-beam. Don't get me started with krillin and the destructo disc
Yeah I know! I actually experimented in Dragon Ball Xenoverse by combining each energy skill I had unlocked! I wish I could get Big Bang Kamehameha & Super Spirit Bomb! Or even Giant Storm! That would be nice! Anyway thank you for reminding me about Tien`s skills!
He'll enslave his mind and body for a power boost, but can't ask for help learning Kaioken. Something's a little fucky there.
Impetus Vegeta was desperate there. He kinda went mad because he never would have a chance to settle the score with him.
Eyeless Jack he was able to shake off babifis control
He wanted to go back to his evil self because that would enable him to force Goku into a fight. He already knew when fighting... Yakkon, I think, that Goku beats him everytime he thinks he's improved.
Impetus Eh, you're talking about two different things here. Vegeta was fully in control of himself while under Babidi's control and probably knew he'd be able to remain in control if he took the Majin power boost, so in his mind it takes away the annoying sentiment that he's started to develop and forces out all his power for a final confrontation with Kakarot. Whereas with the Kaioken he would actually be forced to DO WHAT GOKU SAYS. Or King Kai. And Vegeta HATES to be ordered around. So ya know, it's the difference between Super's Dad Vegeta and mid-Z's Almost-Dad Vegeta.
I'm pretty sure we can all agree that Vegeta hasn't learned anything useful aside from Super Saiyan stuff because then he would be stronger than Goku.
Blazin to a Masakox video is just so relaxing... Even when you have a flu
His coffee-shop like atmosphere is what makes his videos so relaxing to me.
MasacoffeeshopX.
Ironic.
Vegeta: *Kaio-ken PTSD Flashbacks.*
"Hilarious!"
"I ha E finally done it, Kakarot! I have surpassed you in every way! Behold! The might of a Super Saiyan Rhombus!"
A god of destruction kaioken, Hakaioken
Franklin that woupd be awesome
Franklin transform so hard that you destroy the very thing your standing on
But how would it be different from a normal Kaioken?
"Perfect I like that one!" "HakaioKen Barrage!"
Last time I came this early my sister made me go for a round 2
Sweet home Alabama, amirite?
PsychoChallenges L
nice.
PsychoChallenges Why didn't she make you go for ten?
PsychoChallenges incest joke? disgustingly funny 😃
4:42 "...his best bud 'Jeets"
Love the random DBZA plugs you keep throwing into these videos. :D
Despite being a berserker, Vegeta's fighting style wouldn't gel well with the Kaio-Ken in my eyes. Contrast this with Goku's tendency to focus more on gambles and exposing his enemies weak-points with clever, but practical techniques. As you said, MasakoX, Vegeta likely recognizes the risks from using the technique. As the Namek saga has shown, Vegeta doesn't really like to take risks. He fights when he's certain of his victory (doesn't mean he's right as history has proven). If he ever did learn the Kaio-Ken, he would likely only use it for training purposes if at all.
Now that just tells me he should create an energy based skill used for giving the effect of the Time Chamber/ Gravity Room! Sort of like the Gravity Smash! Also that would be useful for restraining his enemies with Ki magnifications to alter the terrain`s gravity. That would slow down his opponents and make him stronger at the same time! Or just Enhancement Wave could be a good name! Otherwise how about: Gravity Rise? please give me your honest opinion on the name of that skill? Thank you! Sincerely, Joe.
"I agree with everyone there!" "So why not develop a risk free move that surpasses all of Goku`s skills!"
random person:what is kamehameha vs galik gun
me:DO YOU EVEN DRAGON BALL
CrimsonT wow...
CrimsonT Lol
CrimsonT they are practically the same.
#supersaiyantriangle
GenuineWonderGaming #supersaiyansquare
8-bit gamer 16 #supersaiyancircle
#supersaiyanrectangle
#supersaiyantrapazoid
#illuminaticonfirmed
2:58 Oooo you’d better watch out for Tien, he’ll turn all those Super Saiyan Triangles into Super Saiyan Squares!
I really like the idea of Vegeta displaying the kaioken out of nowhere, but with the twist that he's mastered it beyond anything Goku could manage, so much so, it would mix with his SSB aura making it purple, it would fit so goddamn well it hurts
Make it blue but if the user aura is blue make it purple as a side effect
I want these characters to learn new moves instead learning old moves.
Personally I feel like Tien should learn the Kaio Ken, he even might do it going into this new Arc. Tien's best techniques have been consistently shown to have the consequence of self harm and between being one of the strongest humans ever and also having met with king Kai I wouldn't at all be surprised to see a times 5 Kiko ho at some point in the arc.
I agree with your point, but I would like to clarify that Tenshinhan isn't actually human. Tenshinhan is a descendant of an alien race called "Three-Eyed People"
Source: dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Three-Eyed_People
My bad, I knew Chiaotzu wasn't technically human but I never really knew Tien wasn't, I always assumed he was some sort of mutant instead, still... times 5 Kiko ho...
Ninjo X Enlightened He should already be dead, though.
Chris Ll he's in the intro... in fact he's one of the revealed universe survival fighters.
i want him to pull out the 4 witches technique. and for goku to learn it during the fight and have SSBx10+4 witches.... holy shit and then vegeta could get his tail back and have his control over great ape to go SSB, THEN! they become vegito. and they become SSB great ape, x10 kaoken+4 witches so we have a 4 armed great ape with a red and blue aura... why are my boxers suddenly so wet?
Don't have so much to say, i just love your channel.
Pride from Fullmetal Alchemist looks at Vegeta and even he is like "Whoa might want to humble it down a bit there buddy!"
"Garsh-shucks heyuck!"
The kaio-what?
knawwwlllledge-ken
Wait? What episode was you watching when Trunks had the upper hand on ssj3 Goku? He wasn't even close, he got one shotted.
Grandpa C in the manga he was pretty close
Bryzantine oh, but the manga and anime is completely different
Grandpa C that's true. But they kinda blend together since they do the same scenes with different outcomes
Bryzantine like children
Grandpa C what?
I liked how you used the word "baken". XD
Like I said before, I feel that Vegeta is essential to Dragon Ball.
personally, although it would be great for Vageta to learn the kio ken, I want Krillen to learn it. that would be such a great power boost and a sign of Gokus friendship with him.
Vegeta with the kioken would be unstoppable
JIM bruh
That's what he'd think too, heck it's what he thinks even without the kaioken, and it's why he never wins when it matters.
But why has no one even bothered to learn the shunkan ido (teleportation technique)? Is one of the most useful things anyone, even non fighters, can learn. Has Yardrat been destroyed or something?
Danphiroud that's what I'm thinking
Danphiroud I don't think goku knows where it is. Probably has to go to king Kai. but there's isn't a point to learn it in the universe
"I've developed a technique far superior to the Kaioken! I call it... Vegitaken!!!"
I can see the abridged version of that scene now:
Goku: Kaioken!
Vegeta: KAIOWHAT?!
"I can see that joke being a yoke on Goku!" "Since the Yoke`s on him not Vegeta!"
Well even if he continues to make ssj2 stronger, won't ssj3 always be 4x stronger than ssj2? I realize that ssj3 has a very large energy drain, but I think it definitely has the potential to be useful in a pinch.
Jonathan Connelly If he's able to master with ssj2 it will b better. not as strong of a boost but it will last longer than ssj3
I still don't see why ssj3 wouldn't be useful in a pinch, even if it was only used for a second. Of course, now we have ssjb which completely outclasses ssj3 in every aspect, but I still think that ssj3 would still be useful for any Saiyan that has not obtained anything higher than ssj3.
In BoG Vegeta's rage caused his power level to skyrocket to SS3 tier (even if temporarily) when Beerus hit Bulma. He hurt him more than SS3 Goku did.
The drain needed to maintain the form might make powering up after going SSJ3 impossible/very hard, with seen both normal and SSJ2 power up after transforming, Goku tried to gather power in 3 and ended up getting detransformed and totally spent.
However, the true answer that everybody is afraid is:
Multipliers are stupid and bare no resemblance to what actually happens.
Someone was asked to put a number to it and they did to the best they could, but the script doesn't follow these numbers or logic.
Jonathan Connelly buddy think once more time ssj3 multiplies the power of ssj2 4 times if the ssj2 is equal to ssj3 power so it doesn't matter and 1 more thing it depends on who's using the technique because if thats true than vegeta ssj2=goku ssj2 =gohan ssj2=trunks ssj2 but thats not possible
@MasakoX Whats your take on the theory that Alternate Timeline Future Zeno is actually Zamasu?
Eszra I know this was for MasakoX but I hate this theory, how can you take over the king of everything? Like he's the most powerful being and he gets taken over by a failed apprentice god? That doesn't seem possible, they would have noticed it if he did anyway because they can sense ki as well so they would be able to sense Zamasu's ki which is different from zero's.
I agree actually. But here's the thing. What I think is that because Zeno is stronger, but in a sense weak in mind, Zamasu was able to transfer to Zeno. He had no physical form when Zeno blew up the time line, so it's very possible he could have done it. And because Zeno is weak in mind but strong in power, Zamasu's Ki would be hidden under Zeno's. Also why would anyone even think to check Zeno's Ki at all? The last thing anyone would try is to make a sour remark. The theory is a possibility and that's the annoying part.
It's not like they think to sense someones Ki, it's like an aura that people have. Also even if Zamasu didn't have a physical form in that last state, Zeno destroyed literally everything in the universe besides himself, Zamasu wouldn't have time to do anything like transferring to Zeno. Let alone be able to do that in the first place considering he used the Super Dragon Balls to switch bodies with Goku.
TheJstriker101 Future Zamasu was immortal, thus once fused and the loss of the physical body, remember he was powerful enough to leech in to the other time lines, it's very possible that he took on the only living being in that universe. We have never seen Immortality work in Dragon Ball at all, thus it's is a possibility that Zamasu has stolen future Zeno's body. Remember it is just a theory. Watch it'll be the Grand Priest who's evil or something, but that'll be so damn boring!
Eszra A bit late but I remember reading another fan theory that the loss of fused Zamasu's immortal form caused a logical paradox because his soul was still immortal and thus couldn't ascend to King Yema's court. As a result the laws of the universe no longer applied to him, giving him a degree of omnipotence due to this contradiction, allowing him to fuse with the very essence of his universe and begin rewriting its laws. A bit far fetched but certainly more plauseable than any explanation the writers could have come up with.
I'd like to see Gohan's Ultimate transformation linked with something, it's incompatible with super saiyan for the same reasons kaioken is but there's no reason it can't be used with kaioken.
My dream situation would be Gohan learning SSJ God (red) and linking it with his Ultimate form, that in my mind would be the perfect form, flawless energy efficiency that's inherent to both forms and a combined power easily on Blue's level, maybe even on the level of Vegeta's ascended Blue form.
Smart What do you call it: SSUG ("Super Saiyan Ultimate God?")
Also Kaioken isn't Goku's technique. Its a Kai technique. And given Vegeta's interactions with Whis, you'd think he'd go after important "Divine Techniques" like this. I think its just the writers. They reserve moves in TOP for specific people like a signature move I guess.
Kaio what?
capz so original...
Vegeta ssjblue kaio-ken would be very fucking interesting
Through the whole video I just couldn't get over how exceedingly english his shirt looked.
I can't wait for Super Saiyan Triangle! XD
It`s Triangle to be there or be square!" "Ah!" "Get the yoke?"
Super Saiyan Triangle Kaioken itll gonna be amazing
Considering the Super anime and manga are both based on Toriyama's notes/main plot points, and Kaio-Ken didn't appear in the manga, I'm fairly convinced it was just added in by Toei for hype/nostalgia and therefore technically isn't cannon. The fight between Goku and Hit made MUCH more sense in the manga in terms of power-scaling too, and it would explain why Kaio-Ken didn't make a significant appearance in the fight against Zamasu.
Still, if it turns out it is cannon I'd prefer it if Vegeta develops his own multiplication technique to counter the Kaio-Ken as that would make more sense for his character. Maybe "Saiya-Ken" or "Ouji-Ken" (Prince-Fist) and the aura should be purple. Okay fine I've thought about this before but just imagine that Goku vs. Vegeta rematch...
Daniel Newton
Well in Super the anime comes before the manga, other than that it's a cool idea
The anime coming first doesn't really mean anything since the manga isn't being adapted from it, they're both based on Toriyama's outline. Pretty sure the manga was far ahead of the anime at one point anyway and Toyotaro said it will pull ahead again in the future. Anyway thanks. If nothing else Super has done Vegeta some justice, he's kept up with Goku purely through training and relies on his own skills and abilities. It may ultimately limit him in the end but it's impressive all the same.
That means both are canon.
*I want Vegeta to learn it under TWO conditions.*
- It has to be from King Kai
- King kai has to teach him if Vegeta tells him a funny joke, like Goku did.
The comedy of Vegeta doing stand up would be gold.
It would be cool to see him create his own technique similar to the Kaio-Ken.
By the way, Vegeta did more gravity training than Goku, up to 400G, unlike the mere 100G of Goku, so he has experienced more strain on his body, and what does the Kaioken do? Puts strain on your body similar to gravity training, so it would not be unrealistic to say that Vegeta would be able to go upwards of Kaioken x50, x80, or maybe even x100! (Most likely x80, because 100G = x20, so 400G = x80... or he might go Kaioken xOVER 9000!!!!)
Tactical Roll I you realize goku went to gravity training while traveling to namek while vegeta did it after frieza death
Kaio-what now?
Super Episode 81 where we learn about the tournament of power and how there's going to be a battle royal of fighters instead of one on ones. Goku and Vegeta kaioken in the middle of that battle royal would be one of the most bad ass things that could happen, along with maybe Gohan going super Saiyan blue or something like that
"You crack me up laughing!" "That would be interesting to watch, but remember red & Blue makes Purple!" "Why not have Gohan gain a light Lavender Rose` almost pink but still purple color with a dark zembazi brown hair since black & Red makes an even dark shade red resembling the darkest brown closest to black. Sort of like Temptress hair color!
And now he has Ultra Ego, which is pretty much just God of Destruction Kaioken, and it fits him so well, especially with the colours meanings
Trunks beat Goku? When did you dream that?
Trunks did not beat Goku, he just tested Goku and Goku saw Trunks was equal to him upon his re-entry into Earth`s Desolate Mountains next to Yamcha`s old Desert!
If Vegeta had the kaioken, he’d easily surpass goku. Imagine blue evolution kaio kenx20
It would need to be renamed to: "Super Saiyan BEK-Kenx20!" B- for blue. E-evolution- K-for Kaio 2nd K-for Ken (Fist or Punch!").
MOMO look outside tonight
Vegeta could be learning it on his own right now. Learning it from seeing Goku use it. It would be awesome if he just pulled off a x20 Kaioken out of nowhere in the Universal Tournament!
*King Kai:* Okay Vegeta, I'll teach you the Kaioken if you can make me laugh.
he is too prideful simple as that
YEA!!! TAKE DAT BITCHES!!! I LEARNED THE STUPID KAIO- WOTEVER!!!
Vegeta hey baldie
Ur the bald one
Vegeta what did you SAY?
*throws serious punch
*dodges
*final flash
Maybe we will see a 'Whisken', since Whis wanted Vegeta to become the next god of destruction, who knows they will/could introduce that.
If they went that route, they'd probably call it 'Tenshiken' or something, so it'd look a bit less silly.
"Whoah!" "Now that sounds whiskery of a punch!"
Ultra ego says hi
He begged Whis to train him. He sold out to Babidi for the Majin power up. Vegeta is not above using others to make himself more powerful. It is less about Vegeta's motives and more about Toriyama and Toei wanting him and Goku to be more distinct and not full copies of each other (ability-wise)
*GARLIC GUN!*
Yum
i kinda dislike goku now. vegeta needs to take over. Wayy more character development
Koollyboy Burizado Yeah, I agree
In episode 62 of DBZ Kai, about 15 minutes into the episode Piccolo says "All of us have learned to amplify our energy in short intense bursts", so, assuming that is canon, it's kind of implied that everyone who has been to King Kai's knows the Kaioken.
Vegito/Gogeta Super Saiyan Blue Kaioken x10, the ultimate combo.
Instant-Fusion-Ken x200!" "The Perfect combo skill!"
I think vegeta is stronger in raw strength, but goku is a smarter fighter, and that tips the scale in his favour. Goku fights creatively and is always coming with some new techinque to augment his power but vegeta trains like hell and tries to overcome his opponents with brute strength..
i would'nt say that Vegeta is all about brute strenghth he is a smart and tactical fighter, but he is also very "ordinary" in his style of fighting and training, while Goku is extremeley creative.
Yeah, beerus said when vegeta fought him with ssj2 that vegeta is master tactician but he lacka a power to defeat him
Why dont goten and trunks have a tail!!? like gohan was born with one???
Luke JapanWalker chi-chi and bulma probably had them removed off-screen
It is the most likely reason but still to never see them with one is a little strange.
Luke JapanWalker Toriyama forgot about Sayajin having tails by the time Goten & Trunks came about.
I think he actually just got tired of drawing tails.
Saiyan tails are a recessive trait, as stated in a Toriyama interview.
Vegeta always does things his own way, that's why we respect him.
3:44-Stay calm but Goku was just yelling like a madman to go ssb kaioken.
"What is he mad about it`s not his pride & Joy!"
Plus, I'm CERTAIN he's going to be the first Super Saiyan Blue 2, if it comes about, surprising Goku and everyone else around him.
If Cabba reaches Super Saiyan Blue, that would make him the first of his universe`s Saiyans to achieve it just like Kale`s version of Super Saiyan & Super Saiyan 2 (Super Saiyan Berserk Green) from U6. "Yet Broly was the first to be consumed by Super Saiyan Berserk in U7!"
Honestly I've always wanted piccolo to learn the kio ken. like I remember watching the episode when piccolo fused with kami and became hella powerfull. i thought, man what if he knew the kio ken? that be so cool and actually make piccollo somewhat relevant IMO
Kaioken 2x would destroy 2nd form freeza
What would be great is if he went to North Kai to learn it and got rejected, and it was overheard by his nemesis West Kai and he decided to train Vegeta instead to fan the flames of their rivalry. Also because this would retroactively canonize the Otherworld Tournament arc.
Vegeta mentioned in the Saiyan saga, he encountered a technique like the Kaio-Ken before. I think it would be cool if he went to those aliens for help. It would be like the Kaio-Ken, but it would also be different. Maybe it could be more effective than the Kaio-Ken.
Dude this question has bothered me ever since season 3 when you can see it started working again I was like okay why doesn't he just be like hey teach me that
Goku and Vegeta's to do list:
1. Somehow magically make SSB potara fusion last longer
2. Vegeta learns kaioken
3. Vegeta learns spirit bomb
4. After they master all of these, they do a ssbKKx10 potara fusion using the spirit bomb
Hey Masako, how do you think Vegeta will react to Cabba dying alongside Universe 6?
Do you think watching another Saiyan (not to mention the entire race) from another universe do anything to him??
Maybe act on his anger towards Goku or the Omni King??
Makes me wonder... Goku and Vegeta fused many a time. What if Vegeta already knows Goku's techniques through the melding of minds, is in the process of perfecting the ones he finds useful and is keeping them in his back pocket just in case Goku fights him for keeps again. With Goku's selfish streak manifesting more and more, we might actually come to that in a later arc.
Not gonna lie, Vegeta's the kind of guy who really wouldn't care if Kaioken was ripping him apart the more he used it as long as he could secure a victory. I think he knows this which is why he never bothered with it out of fear of going too far with it.
Vegeta also doesn't know the instant transmission while it's an overpowered move
I always thought they would handwave it away by saying that the kaioken is so dangerous that it can only be taught to someone who is already dead, since making a mistake while using it is fatal.
This would fit with Goku learning it while dead, and justify no one else learning it (as long as we all agree to forget about the Z warriors hanging out on King Kai's planet after the Saiyan Saga).
Vegeta already knows the Kaioken. Something that has been a common theme in Dragon ball is that Saiyans learn fighting techniques fast and most often by experiencing them in battle. For whatever reason the Kaioken has never come up as an option for Vegeta to exploit so he never practiced it. After seening Goku using it in god form I imagine there will be something from Vegeta soon.
If and when Dragonball finally ends for good I want it to end with Vegeta & Goku meeting where they first had their fight in the Saiyan saga and it freeze framing as they go to punch each other.
You mean: "The Ultimate Goodbye- 2-Warriors End Rivalry At-last!"
i have a gut feeling that while goku and the gang are busy in exhibition match.. vegeta, after bulla's birth will learn the kaio ken technique to kai planet.
Because Vegeta doesn't ask for help, he finds his own way, hence never learning instant transmission aswell
The first time Vegeta saw Goku use the Kaio-Ken, he said he had encountered a similar move before. So maybe he already knows something similar, but just doesn't consider it useful enough to train, like super saiyan three.