Niche Duo vs DF83V - which grinder is better?
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- Опубликовано: 9 фев 2024
- Big thank you to Joe from Espresso Outlet for sending us this awesome grinder. Please check out his website:
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Nice one Jack, I enjoyed that! Good insights.
Thx for watching!
Good analysis! I like your style :)
Thx for watching!
Jack, an interesting comparison, and I agree that the result that counts the most is what falls into your cup. I own several grinders also: A Niche Zero, A Niche Duo, a Kafatek MC5, and a Ceado 37S with 83mm SSP Red burrs, and a Baratza Encore. I had had a DF83 for the briefest of time only because of frustrating mechanical issues. We use all of our grinders daily with our grouping of predominantly lever espresso machines. The Niche Duo is our favorite for French Press and pour overs, this is our hand-down favorite for pour overs. The Ceado 37S with the SSP burrs gives very great clarity and sweetness when paired with our E61 ECM Technika 5 PID, and this combination delivers both beautiful espressos and especially the milk based lattes and cappuccinos that we first have for breakfasts. The Kafatek MC5 when paired with a spring lever machine like the Londinium R24 for medium to dark roasts delivers great espressos. Using the MC5 with a Profitec Pro 800 because of the greater possible brewhead temperatures has become our favorite for light roast brewing. We finish off the mornings with a pairing of the Niche Zero, a classic dark roast , and our essentially modest priced 45mm basket Ponte Vecchio Export....and this combination always gives us beautiful classic single dose (7g) or double dose (14 g) espressos using single Fellini pulls.
Like you we have a LaPavoni Esperto with multiple Coffee Sensor mods, and with our Esperto we find the NZ to be the grinder of choice. So the reason why I have written this note to you is to state that the pairing of a particular grinder with a particular espresso machine (with their individual pressure and temperature profiles) has given us the understanding that no one grinder is optimum for all espresso machines. Some grinders pair better with particular machines. Because you use a Decent perhaps that has contributed to a very different experience in your hands compared with ours which is very heavy with traditional lever machines and their peculiarities....we use the machines/tools optimally as best as we can. In conclusion we love the Niche Duo for our pour-overs and French Press coffees. Cheers, we enjoy your reviews BTW. Keep up the good work.
Thank you very much for watching and sharing your experience. Wow, you have a lot of coffee gear. I thought I was the only crazy one, having so many grinders. I don’t like using La Pavoni for my tests because even when you try, you can’t be very consistent with it. I often use Niche Duo if I don’t like the sharpness in my cup from Max2. My wife prefers it over Max most of the time. I use DF83V as my pour over grinder- great results with those DLC burrs. I just got SSP 83mm cast burrs- will be playing with them soon.
Great review.
Thx for watching!
Nice work Jack, this is the way grinder comparisons should always be done. I can't stand when someone reviewing just says this one is better or they prefer a certain grinder without explaining why. You did a great job saying if you like dark coffees for espresso Duo is better, if you like light 83V is better. This has been my experience with grinders, one doesn't always produce better coffee than another, rather they each do better with different coffees and or brew methods.
Thank you very much for watching and for your kind words.
good review mate, fair and informative.... thanks. I'd love to hear your timemore 078s vs DF83V comparison... probably very similar!
Thx for watching. I had 064s and wasn’t impressed but heard good things about 078. I already sold Niche Duo btw. 83mm burrs are very popular so you have many to choose from hence I would say it has advantage over 078.
Thanks for the excellent video! Just ordered a DF83v in UK. About a six week wait but I'm really looking forward.
I think the variable speed is game changer. Like mentioned, I think it might even offer as much versatility and variation in grind profile as a different set of burrs.
Congratulations! You will love it. I have a video about rpm here:ruclips.net/video/aQpBYs6algA/видео.htmlsi=aJRg-rVuzMUEYdoe There is also another one, about 83mm burrs arriving today.
Always enjoyed your passionate reviews! Cancelled my DF83V2 order and waiting for the DF83V. DUO I can't seem to get the best out of it so my Niche ZERO is still holding the fort before the V arrives. Fingers crossed!
Thx for watching. It should be a nice combo- Zero and DF83V. Good luck
Aside from the variable speed, what else was it that made you go for the V instead?
@@kulkulan223 on top of the variable speed, it's newer, closer to vertical/less retention, auger/pre-breaker for consistency.
Thanks for this! Enjoyed it. I have two family members with Niche Zero and they are both happy with them. They are reliable, neat and make a good base for milk based coffees. It looks like Niche are sticking to this base. The mechanical design is not great for burr alignment and 530 rpm is slow for flat burrs, even 83mm. Still produces decent flavours though as you have proved!
I like how Turin keep upping their game and it seems this is a good platform for an occasional burr upgrade.
I know looks are subjective, but can't unsee a cartoon steam engine, especially with the bellows.
I'm planning a new espresso grinder soon, but I think I'll wait for a review or two of the new Mazzer, which at least has the engineering nailed and would look good by the Bianca. Thanks again, enjoying the content and if I get the Mazzer Philos in April, happy to lend it for a review.
Thx for watching. Mazzer should be very good indeed, as long as they improve the burrs for more clarity. Would love to test it.
I had Niche Zero since 2018 I think, great grinder, daily 5x espresso, no problem, with smal bellow almost no retention, quiet.. Was tempted to try flat burrs, so bought DF83 v2, and honestly I dont like the workflow at all, even with RDT there is always mess, i need to use two kinds of tools to remove retention... when you dial the coffee, its very good BUT.. Was waiting for your video, Duo in my basket, but rather will wait for something new. Thanks for making the video
Thank you for watching and sharing your experience. If you don’t like either of them, maybe new Mazzer Philos grinder would be for you? Niche Zero is great, but would love them to make one with bigger burrs.
@@mycoffeeshow111 yeah, Philos would be great, but there is not so much info, and its very weird how you change settings on the back of grinder
@@notabenex1 you are right. Still, very exciting year for coffee hobbyists (fanatics 😛).
My df83v’s shipping label was created today so I’m excited to get it and start playing. I see some side by side comparisons between it and my Niche Zero in my future. Appreciate the comparison with the duo since it was the other grinder I heavily considered before preordering the df83v.
Congratulations! You should be really happy with it. Did you get 2 sets of burrs? Please let me know how you like it.
@@mycoffeeshow111 I upgraded to the SSP HU burrs. I think it is coming with the dlc espresso burrs as well. I may get brew burrs down the line, but don’t do a ton of pour overs and can’t see myself changing burrs often.
@@erikasoldit I see. I got Cast Silver yesterday- will be playing with them soon 😁
@@mycoffeeshow111 That was another option I had considered. Can’t wait to see what you think of them.
@@erikasoldit the 64mm cast I didn’t like and really wanted to get 83mm MP but I managed to get second hand 83 Cast slightly cheaper so why not.
Hi, catch the sub, love your la pavoni content. Do you have a mazzer super jolly mazzer?
Thank you! All I need now is 95k more 😁. I haven’t played with super jolly, can’t have everything unfortunately
@@mycoffeeshow111 I am in progress gathering parts for it :D . I got a used one for 100$. There is "Daniel Wong" that turns it into doserless grinder which I also ordered, ironically I paid for that mod more than for the grinder itself. I expect to built it in March :D, The result will be 350 watt grinder, "doserless" with ssp burrs under $500 total. Good luck in your journey to 100k.
@@survivorstories1966 that is a nice project. Please let me know how you like it, when is completed.
For the pourover test did you use the espresso burrs in both grinders? How is the df83v with dlc espresso burrs for pourover if not?
I did use pour over burrs for each of them. Mazzer for Niche and DLC for DF83v.
I'm guessing the DF83v buzzing stops if you turn the main power switch off, right? I was just noticing the Breville Smart grind pro was buzzing today and that bugs me.
Yes, it does stop, but not immediately. It takes over 20sec after you turn it off. I don’t think anyone else mentioned it so it might be just mine
@@mycoffeeshow111 some people don't notice or care about these little things but it's good to know in my opinion! I had a cheaper temperature control kettle along side the stagg ekg and wasn't sure which one I wanted to keep until I noticed the cheaper one had a high pitch electric buzz when it was completely off! So sold that one. I have a feeling it contributes to stress / anxiety or just is electronics wasting power unnecessarily. Either way I don't like that! Lol
@@BensCoffeeRants I’m sure I am completely safe with DF83v but just in case I always turn it off when not using 😛
DF into 98mm burr next year? may i know where can i find more info? i think it will be worth waiting
Those are the rumours I heard from China for a while. It seems reasonable to assume that after DF83 next step would be 98mm with maybe some big conical in between.
Cześć Jacek
Czekam na ten młynek z tym że mam mieć od razu z żarnami pod espresso i stąd mam pytanie?
Czy i jak długo żarna Ci się sezonowały/układały.
+/- od jakiego zakresu zaczynałeś.
I co trzeba zrobić zanim wsypię pierwsze ziarno
Pozdrawiam
Jka
Czesc, nie napisałeś ktory młynek ale zgaduje ze DF83V.
Sprawdz czy punkt zero zgadza sie z tym co pokazuje wskaznik ale poza tym zacznij go po prostu używać. Jesli chce sezonowac żarna to 2kg na początek powinno byc wystarczająca. Sprobuj espresso przed sezonowaniem, w trakcie i po przepuszczeniu 2kg. Niektórzy lubią tez wypoziomować zarna ale ja nie mam do tego cierpliwości. Daj znac czy ci sie mlynek podoba.
@@mycoffeeshow111 Ok dam znać co i jak.
Tam są sprężynki i kto wie czy nie trzeba będzie żaren markerem "malować"
Pozdrawiam
Jka
What about same burrs in both grinders? ;)
Good idea but would not be able to do blind tasting. I just got 83mm cast silver burrs- will be playing with it soon.
Finally Jack!! DF64 user V1 here, just bought Profitec Drive 700 what’s next??😂😂
How do you like your Profitec? Are you planning to get a grinder with bigger burrs?
@@mycoffeeshow111 I had profitec 500 before, I wanted a dual boiler, I haven't received it yet! I have a Fiorenzato F83 but I travel a lot so I can't leave the bins in the hopper, it's hard to dial in, so I don't know If I will sell it and try to get the DF83 new version or what, I ended up using more the DF64 than the Fiorenzato... Wrong purchase this time....
@@777nando they are still very popular so no problem selling them. How the coffee tastes? I guess classic full body and little clarity?
@@mycoffeeshow111 yes it's does what I like is grinding time is fast and very fluffy grounds, but hard to adjust on a daily basis, it's basically a war tank 😂😂 you can grind up to 7kg per day imagine I use 4 expressos a day... 😂
@@777nando solution is simple- drink more coffee 😛 If you can, try 6bar shots,- should be awesome with that kind of grinder
For your decent do you still prefer to use the DF83V
Right now, I use df83 for pour overs and Niche for when I want full body espresso. I just bought 83mm cast burrs to experiment with.
@@mycoffeeshow111I really hope you do an 83mm burr comparison now that you have the cast burrs!
@@maxuttech1028 I think I will compare 83mm cast with 64mm cast first. Unfortunately I have to sell my 83mm HU to pay for those silver ones.
Thanks for another great video! I wonder how the Timermore 78 will compare with these. For under 1000, these are probably the main competitors now.
Thx for watching! I had 064s but didn’t like it much. 078 should be much better but can’t say for sure.
I think the immediate reviews whilst valid (and this is a problem with yourube reviews in general) never account for longevity. If i'm spending this amount of money on a grinder i want it to last a lifetime. And i really struggle to see these generic Chinese made grinders like the DF series lasting more than a handful of years. Sure if you are happy replacing your grinder semi-regularly it's not a problem. But to me, a grinder of this price should be a buy it once purchase. I'm not saying that the Niche will last a lifetime but i feel more confident it will and they do sell replacement motors for £100 (which also includes the PCB) should it break and are easy to replace. And that is if it breaks. These DF grinders are thrown in the bin when they break. For that reason i won't buy a DF grinder.
I see your point. I had few DF grinders over the years and haven’t had any issues but you never know. Some retailers offer extended warranty which could help.
Nice job jack, i agree df83v with espresso burrs is on my wish list, just waiting to see if they make any small improvements with a v2 like they have on most other models. Never looked at the niche and thought i want that grinder, it was always missing something even though i think it still looks great. I just don't think it's a good all round grinder like the 83v i feel if i bought the niche i would still be looking for a better grinder, even back when it first came out i wasn't compelled to wait in a queue for one. The df83v seems to have all your going to need brew what ever you like, even with just one set of (espresso) burrs.👍👍😎🇬🇧
Thx for watching! With DF it is difficult to keep up with all new stuff and improvements but I have to say, if you can get DF83V for around £700 it is definitely worth considering. Not perfect but close enough in that price range.
Hi Jack, I have only recently discovered your channel and I have been really enjoying your videos. I am a self confessed Niche person who owns both a zero and a duo and it is maybe just my own bias but I felt you seemed more critical of the Niche than the DF in this video. I am curious what you think of the build quality of the two; the Wired Gourmet’s video tearing down the duo convinced me that it is (if nothing else) a well engineered and constructed machine. It sounds silly but little things like the blue thread locker in the burr carrier bolts is reassuring to me that a product has been designed and manufactured to a high standard (the DF may also do this, I don’t know). The fact that the DF smells of paint would worry me as if they haven’t sorted a problem that obvious then it would make me wonder what else has been overlooked. The myriad niggles people had with the original DF64 is what ultimately made me choose the niche zero in the first place. Turin develop a lot of grinders very quickly and I must admit I would be reluctant to buy one of their machines knowing that they may release a new model in the near future.
I also kind of feel like people who are in the market for a 83mm flat burr grinder are probably going to plan on upgrading the stock burrs eventually. I have just upgraded to SSP LS burrs and found the difference in the cup to be larger than I anticipated. In that sense I feel like qualities like: speed, workflow and build quality are probably the most important. I do completely agree the Duo is frustratingly slow. As I say, I have gone the Niche route so all of the above may be a result of my biased perception but I have been very happy with my purchases.
Thanks again for all your content. BTW is that an Orea V4?
Hi, thx for watching. You might be right about me being critical about Niche. I have been waiting a long time for Duo to arrive and bought it immediately when it was released. My expectations were high. I really like the ease of which you can change the burrs on it. In the blind test it performed well. My wife prefers the coffee from Niche than Kafatek. I said that I think it is good, just nothing special. I was also critical about DF83. In fact I am never really happy with anything, even my end game grinders.
Interesting at the same rpm how much faster Df83 is still.
Niche duo is good if you are actually going to frequently swap between different burrs.
The workflow of the original Niche zero was a game changer for the price there wasn't anything that had as nice and neat workflow. You'd have to spent a lot more and get a lagom p64 for a similar experience but with better flat burr options (and a portafilter fork and variable rpm!). The original Df64s in comparison were messier and needed a lot of little mods and tweaks but they've been consistently updating and tweaking the designs and accesories that come with it so you're right now the workflow is much better!
Yeah, I think it’s about the combination of low rpm and parallel burrs plus visible popcorning.
I hope we will see another, better Niche soon.
@@mycoffeeshow111 the original df83 popcorns a bit without an anti popcorn thing and it was also super fast. But that's a set 1400ish rpm unless it's actually faster.
@@BensCoffeeRants yes, df83 gen 1 was much faster than Niche Duo
Who the heck wants to swap burrs a few times a day every day??
Not myself but if you think about, it is almost like having 2 grinders for the price of one.
@mycoffeeshow111 that's true, but doesn't the variable speed and DLC burrs of a DF64V provide dual purpose capability in one package without having to switch burrs every time, all the time?
@@robertusga well argued The next question then would be the difference between 64mm and 83mm- another rabbit hole.
Mayby I look at it from the wrong perspective. I often test different burrs and it is always a pain to change them. With Niche I can do it much faster.
I mainly drink 90% espresso at home. All I know is that since I have been trying to improve my espresso making setup and trying different coffees, different grinds and grams....I am honestly starting to get sick. And I mean of the flavors, and this expectation of making a better shot. I think it has even made me a little physically sick. I might need to stop drinking this stuff. Great review...But as soon as I heard you say 90 something size burrs for Niche to work on....
I just realized I am sick of all this. I do not enjoy this..."hobby" if you want to call it. I know I very much dislike my grinder and want to change it, but all these grinders, and some at insane prices, as if end game cannot happen...We just have to make a machine adapt to our laziness or uncareful way of grinding, or something....Sorry its this channel I make such a comment on, because I have been watching so many, and this is the first time I am seeing your channel. But you sound honest, and I have to also be honest.
@@philindeblanc thx for watching and sharing your thoughts. Like with everything, if you go too deep you can get overwhelmed. Enjoy your coffee and don’t overthink it. I sometimes switch to pour overs for a week to explore something different.
You need a degree to use the bellow!
Hahaha. You never know.
Talk to fast and broken English is hard to understand.
Yeah, after 20years of living in UK is safe to say I won’t be able to improve that any more 😛
Talk 'too' fast, you mean. Speaking of broken English 😂 but what he has is called an accent and chicks dig it 😅
I understood everything he said. Maybe listen to more people with accents?