been doing squats like that for years no problems and pushing good weight until a friend of mine who thought they knew better got me to keep a more vertical back. i noticed a drop in weight, smaller thighs, and more back issues. Thanks Rip for vindicating me. can’t wait til leg day
@@hardassteel Its not suppose to be completely vertical, thats hard to even do. The mistake people make is leaning forward when they squat, your nose drops straight down.
A more vertical angle is to be combined with high bar squat really, should have no back problems. The angle here is for low bar style. Obviously the front squat is super vertical
Rip is like that teacher that seems very harsh in the beginning but once you get to know him he is just a chill out loving teacher that jokes with his students, goes on trips with them, etc .He will ultimately pass your test even though you knew nothing
I agree with all of that besides the last sentence. I feel that if Rip noticed one of his students was struggling he would stay back after class to tutor them until they truly understand. He's got a passion for this like no-one else.
I was old by two personal trainers that my bent over squat was extremely wrong and that would cause me serious back problems in the future. I tried everything to achieve this perfectly vertical squat, which was extremely counter intuitive for me and it felt like shit. I am so glad I found Alan Thrall and Mark Rippetoe to actually shed some light into this. Because you are definitely fed this bullshit of horizontal back squat in gyms.
Depends on the type of squat - highbar (more vertical torso, Olympic weightlifting) vs lowbar (more horizontal torso, powerlifting). I’ve always been accustomed to the more vertical torso because it simply felt more natural. I tried doing lowbar just today and it felt more awkward. I will start implementing lowbar to my weekly lifting session as well as keeping my highbar sessions.
An important side note to back angle: it really depends on how longs your thighs are compared to the whole leg. The longer the thigh is, the more your back is going to be tilted forward at the bottom of the squat. If you have relatively short thighs you will end up with a more vertical angle at the bottom of the lift. The key is to make sure that the bar is where its supposed to be (right below the spine of the scapula) and that you are moving the bar along a straight line over midfoot
It's in insane after all this time trying to squat properly and reading and watching so many videos, this one video made a huge difference for me. Thank you.
It’s funny how a lot of comments bag on Rip’s physique as an indicator that he doesn’t know what he’s talking about. He’s a strength “coach” not a current powerlifting “athlete” which is why he doesn’t look like a chiseled athlete. Hell, he’s a 60+ year old man! Like all coaches, he’s passing on his knowledge from his 40 years of experience in lifting heavy shit. Criticizing Rip on the basis of appearance is the same as looking at Bill Belichick and asking, “What in the world does this overweight old man know about professional football?” ☝️🥴
The handyman teaches a damn good fitness class. You wouldn’t expect him to have so much knowledge about physiology and biometrics. The attire with the old gym shirt kinda reminds me of a book in the library that no one picks up and is actually pretty good once you read it.
Thank you I can’t tell you how many times people have scolded me about squat form and I allowed them to discourage me with their bro science bs! I’ve been squatting heavy again for weeks now and progressing like never before!
okienatural If you said that to his face, he'd feed to a fawve knuckle sandwich. No calories, and great for dieting as you'll be eating gruel through a straw for three months.
All jokes aside he does squat reps of 25 at 250kg, n that's before he's even had breakfast because of that energy storage facility he's got gawn on in belly.
I used to squat that way. Straight up and down. Felt like I was doing it right but was never able to get stronger. Then I tried it this way and my squat has changed dramatically. That part about push up a bit out of the hole with your hips first is gold.
THANK YOU! Came here for vindication after discovering on my own. That so many naturally incorporate forward lean indicates that it's a highly functional movement pattern. Even when doing air squats, when I try to stay more upright, I feel it mostly in my knee joints, butt, and low back. When I allow my body to lean more forward, I feel it more in the thighs and without discomfort in my knees. Exactly what I want as someone interested in both aesthetics and functionality (this should also improve my vertical jumping). I discovered this when the light bulb in my head after picking something off the floor using about a 90° angle knee bend, and noticing the satisfying quad engagement, the exact opposite of what the bodybuilding mags would have you believe.
Just practice that back angle a lot before you throw on weight if you've always squatted wrong like I have... I did it with the correct back angle for the first time a while back and went face first x) Fortunately I *was* just practicing form and only had two 45's on the bar and just threw it forward over my falling head (otherwise it would have cracked my skull). Needless to say, I practiced a little more. Now I have it worked out and my squat feels a lot stronger coming out than it ever has.
I read starting strength in 2010 as I was finishing up a bachelors program in exercise science. I started working with athletes in college weight rooms instead of the general public in commercial gyms and realized my knowledge base was completely lacking when it came to specific, measurable strength gains in squat, deadlift, and pressing. As I started to add weight to the bar, a roided up, tattoo-sleeved jabroni in a tank top told me I was leaning forward too far with my back squat. He LOOKED bigger and stronger than me at the time. I’m so glad I never listened to him, and made strength gains beyond my self-perceived capabilities because I stuck with starting strength
I’m so glad I found this channel, I always used to squat with the idea of the elbows in the knees type of form method but I never knew the intention behind the back angle
I am extremely grateful for Mr. Rippetoe's instruction both on RUclips and in his books, which will give you an incredible understanding of the exercises if you will take the time to study them. For all of you budding comedian's out there posting jibes, I suggest you go elsewhere ... Those of us that really want to learn don't want to put up with your juvenile comments.
Very true, the best squatter ever Ed Coan bends his back and uses a technique called opening your taint aka open your groin instead of thinking Bend your knees. 100% works
Thank you for showing this I watched one of your other videos and it feels so much better squatting this way everyone else tells me to keep my back straight up but it feels so uncomfortable with my back straight up I wish I would have learned this years ago.
I just started going to the gym, and i had a much better go of it putting a "hip hinge" (like people tell you to do for RDLs) into the squat, and feeling more horizontal than i see EVERYONE else doing it. it destroyed my glutes, and i loved it, and there wasnt much quad work being done (for better or worse) Every time ive tried to do the squat more vertical, ive had slight upper and lower back pain afterwards- but after the horizontal hinge versions, i feel great! I was thinking "squat/good morning hybrid " before i even got to this video Love seeing other people do/feel how i do on this, i'll keep doing research of coruse, but thanks a ton for putting this video up!
This type of squat is all well and good, not questioning it. However, most people start and continue to squat this way because the high bar ass-to-grass squat is a lot more difficult and requires more discipline/practice to develop. You need to decide if you want to do a pure (and beautiful) leg exercise with high bar ATG, or a hip driven posterior chain exercise with Rippetoe here.
David Zimmermann pretty sure you want to squat the healthy way with better muscular and skeletal support. No one should really be going for ass to grass either because it’s incredibly hard on the knee ligaments. Remember- function over beauty
@@jessezitting9153 your wrong.. If you can squat ass to grass the proper way then it shows that you have good mobility... If you can't do ass to grass with or without without weights then you really need to work on it. It means that your lacking... Flexibility is just as important as everything else. Alot of people these days are way too stiff and that isn't healthy....
@@BMAB85 MOBILITY should be the aim, that is strength across a range of flexibility. Flexibility without strength is a good way to injure yourself and\or prematurely wear out your joints. It's one of the reasons stretching for muscle tightness rarely works as anything other than temporary pain relief.
@Aaron NoneYa The US will probably lose some power, but its not like the old British Empire. The US is 3rd in population and 4th in land mass. Unlike the British Isles, the US has massive resources of its own. Rome was similar to the British Empire in the fact that only people from Italy were really Romans. The other Europeans were conquered people that had no real loyalty to Rome. Lectures and articles by people with agendas aren't credible no matter how good their credentials are. That article is so pathetic. It praises Chinese, Russian, Japanese, Iranian, and North Korean nationalism while saying American nationalism is the cause of the US's downfall. Try thinking about what you read instead of just blindly believing everything.
People take Internet comments on YT and Reddit too seriously. IRL, most people don't go to the gym, and the small subsection of people that go don't know how to train with a barbell. Most people really don't argue against the forward lean as much as negative internet comments would make it seem.
@@bongers43 Had to stop because I didn't have access to the school gym anymore. Learned a lot about form and that I need to take it easy when I'm tempted to add more weight. Just moved and will start again soon. Thanks for asking!
I've been doing Olympic lifts in the last years and have always squatted high bar (vertical back). Over the course of there years I had multiple back injuries and finally a herniated disc. Now I'm trying Rippetoe's low bar and I hope to strengthen that back a bit. After my hernia I tested both the high and low bar and must admit the low bar felt easier on my back.
Tom Platz says to keep the back vertical. Conflicting advice everywhere. Bending forward like Mark says feels more natural to me, can't keep a vertical back without falling on my butt.
I have a long torso and short legs, relatively. If I bend over as shown, I have the bar past the front of my toes. So, any solution to this? How about I keep the bar over my feet and keep doing what I've been doing.
00Noontide hes actually pretty terrible, he gave the exact opposite advise that. shouldve been given. Leaning forward and driving with your hips in the squat is absolutely terrible for your back, because eventually your quads will become weak, hips will shoot up, back angle will increase, bar path deviates and now you're off balance and doing a goodmorning. Squat is quad dominant, and is primarily knee extension, maintaining a vertical back angle in the squat is much harder to do and much more efficient way to train your hips given that movement. The squat is not hip extension, the deadlift is, he's teaching the squat how someone would teach the deadlift. The deadlift will train everything the squat doesn't already do. Saying leaning forward and driving with your hips in the squat is the same thing as saying let your knees come all the forward and stay vertical in the deadlift. He has everything completely backwards. Train this way, go ahead, you'll feel way stronger at first because your legs are weak and your compensating with your lower back but eventually a few months of heavy training down the road you'll get chronic low back pain and have to either quit or lower the weight relearn it all over again. Your choice
Exotic Nugget doesn’t matter if its lowbar or highbar you should focus on staying as upright as possible because the prime mover in the squat is the quads and by forcing hip extension throughout the movement keeps your hips under you, your knees over your toes, ensuring your back angle never deviated throughout the lift and a straight bar path centered over midfoot. Sitting back is simply deloading the prime movers and loading mainly the lower back which is a stabilizer- not a prime mover and the hamstrings which contribute absolutely nothing to knee extension. Its a bastardized movement pattern designed for geared powerlifters in squat suits to better utilize them. But that was all probably jibber jabber to you wasn’t it. Look at layne nortons squat like I said previously. Its a well known fact in the fitness industry rippetoe is a dogmatic clown.
Low bar I think for everyone would shift the most weight due to posterior chain however not all squats are the same and bar position and back angle does change it as we call one a high bar and one a low bar. People should just learn to accept that and not argue. I'm a high bar squatter and I squat more upright because I want bigger quadriceps primarily, if I decide I want to powerlift and get a stronger posterior chain I will low bar squat and it's that simple. I also feel it's more safe on your back high bar squatting (more vertical torso) than low bar and thats a big deal for me for longevity. I respect Rippetoes ideologies on training for the most part. I do however believe there is merit to high bar squatting as mentioned above and understanding quadricep size will be the limiting factor behind increasing your high bar squat.
If you're trying to gain the most amount of muscle in the shortest amount of time as a novice the answer is clearly low bar. If you're trying to be quad dominant and not work your posterior chain then do high bar. That's the only reason anyone would need it.
Great video!Thx!I had the problem/idea very long about keeping the torso as vertical as possible(good for front squats though)but since i applied it for back squats the force was always too much on the knees/quads(having some idea that those should do the main work,this needless to say didn't allow for any particular increase in weights on the bar....i recently watch a video with Ed Coan where he talked about "open up the groin/sinking in to the hips",now,i'm quite new to squatting and i really wanna learn it,one interesting thing is that i'm pretty strong in the Leg press,but that seems not to mean shit really(think Mark R talked about that in another vid,well do you folks have some tip or advice here?Ok,regards from Sweden/M
Ha I feel you, I wouldn’t last too long in that type of environment. I’m the type that would interrupt and say but it feels like shit when I squat like that.
My problem with staying bent forward is that the bar likes to roll forward onto my neck. I assume it's a problem with my grip/stance, or it would happen to everybody.
Toby Bromfield The thing that Rippetoe and starting strength are best known for is promoting the low bar squat as opposed to the high bar. It goes without saying that this is about the low bar squat since they explicitly have said that is the squat they teach.
Will Austin I was just saying, for those who have just come across this video by chance or don't know the channel. It's important to note. If you start doing high bar squats like this, you're going to run into some problems.
Dick Johnson Why would you say that? There wouldn't be such a debate between high and low bar, and some body builders/power lifters/athletes using one and some the other, if they both weren't equally effective and liked. As long as an exercise isn't damaging to the muscle, you can't say it's rubbish, that's just ignorant. Some movements work well for some and don't work at all for others. I know many top trainers and body builders who swear by high bar. I personally much prefer high bar, but I'd never say low bar wasn't good. It's just preference.
Ryan Finchum It's a bad way to squat, but a fantastic way to gift your coach a mental image that'll have him beasting with his calloused palm later that night.
BS in olympic weightliftig you stay as vertical as possible in all the squat variations and since crossfit uses OLY lifts this is the correct way to teach the squat. E.g. try to do an overhead squat while keeping that back angle ripp talks about -> you will tear your shouldres out of their sockets!
exactly and you responded to that by first saying no, claiming that a horizontal back angle may be maintained during an overhead squat if appropriate shoulder mobility is a given. Then you kind of went back and "admitted" that a more upright posture IS in feact benfeficial for the overhead squat. (I don't intend to be polemic but indeed given an appropirate amount of mobility you can also snatch in a good morning position. I don't think this is a good argument). Just to be perfectly clear I don't have anything against low bar squats but as far as I can see there is a reason why OLY lifters train highbar i.e. it is the most beneficial back(!)squat for their intented purpose. It is probably not the best form for general strength training (it requires too much flexibility) nor powerlifting (though this depends a lot on individual factors i.e. levrages, injuries etc.). If this is what you meant by "Good and bad for both styles" then my answer is yes. In any event a competent coach should be able to teach both styles.
This is helpful. I'm 6'4" and don't lean forward enough. Additionally I can't get my heals on the ground. I squat on my toes and it puts way to much pressure on my knees; it's been like that for years. At the moment I'm just squatting on to a weight bench to build the muscle (body weight). I lose control on the way down and fall the last 6inchs or so. I have put a 2x4 under my heel and the fixes the problem at the moment but does not seem to cure it. I would appreciate any ideas.
Chad Wiley it could also be your hip flexibility, especially considering your height. Tight hips make it hard to squat very low. I recommend trying some hip stretches and see if it helps.
@@scottyg4962 Thanks Scotty G. It's a work in progress. I've gotten one of those exercise balls and put it up against the wall and can squat pretty good with the assist. I just need a plan of action or a holistic approach to get me to an actual squat. I'm sure if I had access to Mark he would get me there. I just don't want to give $ to a personal trainer then do the work and not get the result.
@@markfrankham1 Yes, I think it's a combination of things. I'm doing dead lifts and some butt exercises to strengthen those muscles. Making progress on the way up but the way down I still lose control. Difficult to focus on a muscle one can feel.
My problem is that my hip flexibility is too good. As a kid I always sat with my knees up to my chin. So I tend to go too low with my damn squat. Then I discovered after mulling it over, I think; that if I lean forward and shove my hips back that I tend to get more tightness when I reach just below parallel. But I still notice that my back angle tends to lag too much on the way up and I end up carrying the load with my back, kind of like a good morning. But to be fair it’s not my back that hurts, it’s my knees. And I know my back angle shouldn’t be vertical, and I know my knees need to be out. Am I figuring this out? Thanks any tips are appreciated.
An upright below parallel squat should always be the goal, it will makes you much stronger, bigger and more mobile. But if you care about powerlifting then low bar might allow you to push bigger numbers.
sh0ckwavex Your post doesn't reference who you're trying to reply to, but most shoulder and wrist issues which are associated with squatting are because people aren't actively pulling down. If you aren't pulling down, your body will instinctively try to push up against the bar. The bar is almost definitely more than you can overhead press. Besides keeping your upper and mid back tight, pulling down protect your joints. Don't comment if you are just repeating things you've heard.
While Rippetoe's reason why people squat vertically could be correct for some, I personal feel that it's because it's easier to keep your shoulders down and back when the torso is vertical
To be completely precise, a non-vertical back angle DOES in fact shear the back. A cantilever beam with a load on the end is under shear stress. BUT, this is natural in the squat, which is Mark’s point.
Philipp Krinner hamstrings flex the knee and extend the hip. In a closed chain all that happens is the femur rotates but the strings do the same no matter what.
Matthew McNulty do Superman's lying face down, it's in rips book, do several until your lower back is fatigued, 3x10 something like that, introduce lactate to low back (it will get fatigued), and recruit muscle memory when you are pulling yourself into the hole (bottom of the squat) never drop into it, pull yourself in with lumbar and thoracic extension of spine, use hip drove to come out of the squat, maintain the knees spread apart and over the second or third toe (don't ever let the knees travel forward, that also means your hamstring lost tension and lumbar flexed) also, just get Rippetoes book, Starting Strength and read it
PearsAreOkay Hi! What do you mean with 'maintain the knees spread apart' and pulling yourself in the hole? Is that a conscious and controlled effort like pulling yourself under the bar when cleaning?
Am having a problem in that as i squat down i start to shift the weight to my heels n that messes everything bcoz it means i cant handle heavy weight. I feel/ know my legs can handle heavy weights but the mechanics r not right
Less weight, and it sounds like you're moving the bar path out of the straight line pattern. Break at the hips and the knees at the same time. (AKA = bend knees and bend down at the same time) and control the descent. You can push your big toe into the floor as another mental cue to keep your whole foot on the floor and the bar path vertical.
Having run sslp, I would have to advise against rip's coaching cues here. I encountered more and more of a good morning squat which resulted in me hitting a wall on my squat. I would advise people watch Quinn henock or squat university videos for a more complete squat tutorial. I would say that in a low bar squat, your torso will be inclined further at around 45 degrees but cueing hip drive out of the hole, eliminates the use of the quads and forces you to use your back to get through the sticking point. Also see Greg nuckols' complete squat manual, it's probably the best complete squat guide out there
No, high bar mechanics are different, as are the ways they target muscle groups. This style is more glute and hip dominant, while high bar is more quad dominant.
The Chinese do it. They believe that bending over allows more "muscle mass" can be applied (muscle of the upper back) to handle the load and not just that of the shoulders.
First there is no such thing as an "Asian/Chinese Body type". "American body type" ? Does not exist. There is a body type that is "preferable" for the Olympic lifts. This is the long trunk ,short legs and even shorter "femurs" . Several races/ethnic groups have this "physique" type although it may not be the "predominant" one for that race/ethnicity. The Chinese use a much more "bent over" trunk due to the exact reasons that I have stated.
Have to continue to "disagree" with you. Perhaps not all Chinese lifters display the "Hawk " position but many do. I am pretty sure that that they internally rotate the shoulder as well. Like I said I am pretty sure that I have read in more than one place that the Chinese believe that this overhead position is held further behind than most countries lifters do with the explanation that the muscles of the shoulder girdle are not sufficient to support the bar overhead as are the muscles of the upper back.This might be sufficient proof-facebook.com/chineseweightlifting/videos/1561573133964252/ As an interesting aside Andrew Charniga (Sportivnypress.com) has an article written that the Bulgarian sport scientists found that the High bar back squat correlated very strongly with the Snatch.
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
Gotta love Rip for staying calm and patient while repeating this for the millionth time.
Getting paid to say it for the millionth time helps.
Captain Something. Rip knows that this is likely the first time they've heard it. he's got the heart of a teacher.
he drinks a gallon of milk
Captain Jack Aubrey of the Royal Navy i
BEAT THAT OUT OF YOUR HEAD
been doing squats like that for years no problems and pushing good weight until a friend of mine who thought they knew better got me to keep a more vertical back. i noticed a drop in weight, smaller thighs, and more back issues. Thanks Rip for vindicating me. can’t wait til leg day
Squats should be more than one day bro
@@hardassteel Its not suppose to be completely vertical, thats hard to even do. The mistake people make is leaning forward when they squat, your nose drops straight down.
It's not leg day brother, it's squat day.
A more vertical angle is to be combined with high bar squat really, should have no back problems. The angle here is for low bar style. Obviously the front squat is super vertical
6:00 - When I attend a seminar I'm going to say, "No!" when Rip asks if I know where my nipples are. What follows should be a unique experience.
Ken Craig My nipples are back at the barn being milked by Amish virgins to churn butter, why?
Lol
Bet you havent done it
@@aguuug5139 - Not yet, but it’s on my bucket list
@@KenOnStrengthwe're waiting
Rip is like that teacher that seems very harsh in the beginning but once you get to know him he is just a chill out loving teacher that jokes with his students, goes on trips with them, etc .He will ultimately pass your test even though you knew nothing
I agree with all of that besides the last sentence. I feel that if Rip noticed one of his students was struggling he would stay back after class to tutor them until they truly understand. He's got a passion for this like no-one else.
I was old by two personal trainers that my bent over squat was extremely wrong and that would cause me serious back problems in the future. I tried everything to achieve this perfectly vertical squat, which was extremely counter intuitive for me and it felt like shit.
I am so glad I found Alan Thrall and Mark Rippetoe to actually shed some light into this. Because you are definitely fed this bullshit of horizontal back squat in gyms.
They told me the same thing, I said to them that is the Bro Science mantra.
Depends on the type of squat - highbar (more vertical torso, Olympic weightlifting) vs lowbar (more horizontal torso, powerlifting). I’ve always been accustomed to the more vertical torso because it simply felt more natural. I tried doing lowbar just today and it felt more awkward. I will start implementing lowbar to my weekly lifting session as well as keeping my highbar sessions.
An important side note to back angle: it really depends on how longs your thighs are compared to the whole leg. The longer the thigh is, the more your back is going to be tilted forward at the bottom of the squat. If you have relatively short thighs you will end up with a more vertical angle at the bottom of the lift.
The key is to make sure that the bar is where its supposed to be (right below the spine of the scapula) and that you are moving the bar along a straight line over midfoot
True
It's in insane after all this time trying to squat properly and reading and watching so many videos, this one video made a huge difference for me. Thank you.
Some people's nipples are pointing at the floor when they are standing straight up.
looool
Women Sack tits or men boobs ?
😄
lmao
Meatloaf?
It’s funny how a lot of comments bag on Rip’s physique as an indicator that he doesn’t know what he’s talking about. He’s a strength “coach” not a current powerlifting “athlete” which is why he doesn’t look like a chiseled athlete. Hell, he’s a 60+ year old man! Like all coaches, he’s passing on his knowledge from his 40 years of experience in lifting heavy shit. Criticizing Rip on the basis of appearance is the same as looking at Bill Belichick and asking, “What in the world does this overweight old man know about professional football?” ☝️🥴
He's also explicitly not a bodybuilder.
People have a false idea of what a strong, natty 60+ looks like.
The handyman teaches a damn good fitness class. You wouldn’t expect him to have so much knowledge about physiology and biometrics. The attire with the old gym shirt kinda reminds me of a book in the library that no one picks up and is actually pretty good once you read it.
This information is too real for the internet. Thank you so much for sharing and this channel.
Thank you I can’t tell you how many times people have scolded me about squat form and I allowed them to discourage me with their bro science bs! I’ve been squatting heavy again for weeks now and progressing like never before!
Let your results speak the truth against their opinions.
Rip looks like he's been hitting the jelly doughnuts for sets of fawve.
okienatural If you said that to his face, he'd feed to a fawve knuckle sandwich. No calories, and great for dieting as you'll be eating gruel through a straw for three months.
cardio? all you need is hip drahhve
Uncool one, you must be Rips little pool boy. Do you grease up his big Buddah belly while he sips on bourbon in his Speedo?
Men who have been muscular in their youth tend to end up with that look. There is still some muscle underneath.
All jokes aside he does squat reps of 25 at 250kg, n that's before he's even had breakfast because of that energy storage facility he's got gawn on in belly.
I used to squat that way. Straight up and down. Felt like I was doing it right but was never able to get stronger. Then I tried it this way and my squat has changed dramatically. That part about push up a bit out of the hole with your hips first is gold.
THANK YOU! Came here for vindication after discovering on my own. That so many naturally incorporate forward lean indicates that it's a highly functional movement pattern. Even when doing air squats, when I try to stay more upright, I feel it mostly in my knee joints, butt, and low back. When I allow my body to lean more forward, I feel it more in the thighs and without discomfort in my knees. Exactly what I want as someone interested in both aesthetics and functionality (this should also improve my vertical jumping). I discovered this when the light bulb in my head after picking something off the floor using about a 90° angle knee bend, and noticing the satisfying quad engagement, the exact opposite of what the bodybuilding mags would have you believe.
Just practice that back angle a lot before you throw on weight if you've always squatted wrong like I have... I did it with the correct back angle for the first time a while back and went face first x) Fortunately I *was* just practicing form and only had two 45's on the bar and just threw it forward over my falling head (otherwise it would have cracked my skull). Needless to say, I practiced a little more. Now I have it worked out and my squat feels a lot stronger coming out than it ever has.
I read starting strength in 2010 as I was finishing up a bachelors program in exercise science. I started working with athletes in college weight rooms instead of the general public in commercial gyms and realized my knowledge base was completely lacking when it came to specific, measurable strength gains in squat, deadlift, and pressing. As I started to add weight to the bar, a roided up, tattoo-sleeved jabroni in a tank top told me I was leaning forward too far with my back squat. He LOOKED bigger and stronger than me at the time. I’m so glad I never listened to him, and made strength gains beyond my self-perceived capabilities because I stuck with starting strength
Wow! Literally an epiphany! I can actually squat now after this video! Amazing!
I’m so glad I found this channel, I always used to squat with the idea of the elbows in the knees type of form method but I never knew the intention behind the back angle
I am extremely grateful for Mr. Rippetoe's instruction both on RUclips and in his books, which will give you an incredible understanding of the exercises if you will take the time to study them. For all of you budding comedian's out there posting jibes, I suggest you go elsewhere ... Those of us that really want to learn don't want to put up with your juvenile comments.
Thanks, I’ve been doing squats wrong for a little time. This helps.
Very true, the best squatter ever Ed Coan bends his back and uses a technique called opening your taint aka open your groin instead of thinking Bend your knees. 100% works
Thank you for showing this I watched one of your other videos and it feels so much better squatting this way everyone else tells me to keep my back straight up but it feels so uncomfortable with my back straight up I wish I would have learned this years ago.
I just started going to the gym, and i had a much better go of it putting a "hip hinge" (like people tell you to do for RDLs) into the squat, and feeling more horizontal than i see EVERYONE else doing it. it destroyed my glutes, and i loved it, and there wasnt much quad work being done (for better or worse)
Every time ive tried to do the squat more vertical, ive had slight upper and lower back pain afterwards- but after the horizontal hinge versions, i feel great!
I was thinking "squat/good morning hybrid " before i even got to this video
Love seeing other people do/feel how i do on this, i'll keep doing research of coruse, but thanks a ton for putting this video up!
This video alone should have 10 million views....😊
This type of squat is all well and good, not questioning it. However, most people start and continue to squat this way because the high bar ass-to-grass squat is a lot more difficult and requires more discipline/practice to develop.
You need to decide if you want to do a pure (and beautiful) leg exercise with high bar ATG, or a hip driven posterior chain exercise with Rippetoe here.
David Zimmermann pretty sure you want to squat the healthy way with better muscular and skeletal support. No one should really be going for ass to grass either because it’s incredibly hard on the knee ligaments. Remember- function over beauty
@@jessezitting9153 your wrong.. If you can squat ass to grass the proper way then it shows that you have good mobility... If you can't do ass to grass with or without without weights then you really need to work on it. It means that your lacking... Flexibility is just as important as everything else. Alot of people these days are way too stiff and that isn't healthy....
@@BMAB85 MOBILITY should be the aim, that is strength across a range of flexibility. Flexibility without strength is a good way to injure yourself and\or prematurely wear out your joints. It's one of the reasons stretching for muscle tightness rarely works as anything other than temporary pain relief.
I love how he uses physics terms like moment arm. I've always understood the human body in this manner
This guy is more American than a bold eagle with a gun xD
Also he makes sense, finally someone who understands the biomechanics of a squat!
Nathan27inch *Bald
Thanks for pointing that out people obviously didn't understand me
@Aaron NoneYa The US will probably lose some power, but its not like the old British Empire. The US is 3rd in population and 4th in land mass. Unlike the British Isles, the US has massive resources of its own. Rome was similar to the British Empire in the fact that only people from Italy were really Romans. The other Europeans were conquered people that had no real loyalty to Rome.
Lectures and articles by people with agendas aren't credible no matter how good their credentials are. That article is so pathetic. It praises Chinese, Russian, Japanese, Iranian, and North Korean nationalism while saying American nationalism is the cause of the US's downfall. Try thinking about what you read instead of just blindly believing everything.
People take Internet comments on YT and Reddit too seriously. IRL, most people don't go to the gym, and the small subsection of people that go don't know how to train with a barbell. Most people really don't argue against the forward lean as much as negative internet comments would make it seem.
laughter95 Thanks. About to start my training tomorrow.
@@mikeschmitt4896 how's your training going?
@@bongers43 Had to stop because I didn't have access to the school gym anymore. Learned a lot about form and that I need to take it easy when I'm tempted to add more weight. Just moved and will start again soon. Thanks for asking!
Good morning, how can I deal with hamstring shortening, which recommendations can I follow? Thank you.
(っ◔◡◔)っ ❤ HIP DRAHVE ❤
Use youa hiaps and youa baack
@@martin1024 >_< ❤️❤️❤️❤️
This is the best squat vid I've seen. Had no idea about what a proper back angle should be.
The longer back, the bigger the lever is, the more vertical back is, sheer force is bigger and more chance for injury
I wanted to see them squat!
Isaac Campos ... And I wanted to see them eat Cheerios in tomato juice...unfortunately for both of us, that wasn't the point of this video.
Cool One ... Rather than Nails in a Bowl of Semen with Frog legs afloat ...
Cool One 😂😂😂😂
Looking at all that stomach hanging over Rip's belt, it's hard to believe that he refers to bodyweight squats as "air squats".
He carries his home gym all the time
Hahahhahah
Where is part 2
I've been doing Olympic lifts in the last years and have always squatted high bar (vertical back). Over the course of there years I had multiple back injuries and finally a herniated disc. Now I'm trying Rippetoe's low bar and I hope to strengthen that back a bit. After my hernia I tested both the high and low bar and must admit the low bar felt easier on my back.
Are you allowed to squat low bar in the Olympics
olympic squat is easier on your back and harder on your knees.
Thank you for calling it low bar
Some one watching this video is going to set it high bar injury themselves
Tom Platz says to keep the back vertical. Conflicting advice everywhere. Bending forward like Mark says feels more natural to me, can't keep a vertical back without falling on my butt.
Being more vertical is better for quad hypertrophy.
I wish I could have shown this video to the gym bro who asked me if I had low back pain because I was bending forward with the bar on my back
That is why you were getting hurt.
The que to bend over never worked for me. Finally a guy at the gym simply said “sit back”. That fixed my squat
a demonstration would of been nice
I have a long torso and short legs, relatively. If I bend over as shown, I have the bar past the front of my toes. So, any solution to this? How about I keep the bar over my feet and keep doing what I've been doing.
"you've been told by everybody who thinks they have an opinion about this..." brilliant sarcasm... love it...
Vertical Squats have their place. They’re quad dominant and one can’t use as much weight. Pros and Cons to every movement.
💯💯💯
great coach! wish I could be there!
00Noontide hes actually pretty terrible, he gave the exact opposite advise that. shouldve been given. Leaning forward and driving with your hips in the squat is absolutely terrible for your back, because eventually your quads will become weak, hips will shoot up, back angle will increase, bar path deviates and now you're off balance and doing a goodmorning. Squat is quad dominant, and is primarily knee extension, maintaining a vertical back angle in the squat is much harder to do and much more efficient way to train your hips given that movement. The squat is not hip extension, the deadlift is, he's teaching the squat how someone would teach the deadlift. The deadlift will train everything the squat doesn't already do. Saying leaning forward and driving with your hips in the squat is the same thing as saying let your knees come all the forward and stay vertical in the deadlift. He has everything completely backwards. Train this way, go ahead, you'll feel way stronger at first because your legs are weak and your compensating with your lower back but eventually a few months of heavy training down the road you'll get chronic low back pain and have to either quit or lower the weight relearn it all over again. Your choice
ChrisYaBish thanks for the thorough response, but I'll stick with Rip's method!
How did it go two years later?
@@TopDoggyRobby Hes teaching low bar which not high bar.
Exotic Nugget doesn’t matter if its lowbar or highbar you should focus on staying as upright as possible because the prime mover in the squat is the quads and by forcing hip extension throughout the movement keeps your hips under you, your knees over your toes, ensuring your back angle never deviated throughout the lift and a straight bar path centered over midfoot. Sitting back is simply deloading the prime movers and loading mainly the lower back which is a stabilizer- not a prime mover and the hamstrings which contribute absolutely nothing to knee extension. Its a bastardized movement pattern designed for geared powerlifters in squat suits to better utilize them. But that was all probably jibber jabber to you wasn’t it. Look at layne nortons squat like I said previously. Its a well known fact in the fitness industry rippetoe is a dogmatic clown.
Low bar I think for everyone would shift the most weight due to posterior chain however not all squats are the same and bar position and back angle does change it as we call one a high bar and one a low bar. People should just learn to accept that and not argue. I'm a high bar squatter and I squat more upright because I want bigger quadriceps primarily, if I decide I want to powerlift and get a stronger posterior chain I will low bar squat and it's that simple. I also feel it's more safe on your back high bar squatting (more vertical torso) than low bar and thats a big deal for me for longevity. I respect Rippetoes ideologies on training for the most part. I do however believe there is merit to high bar squatting as mentioned above and understanding quadricep size will be the limiting factor behind increasing your high bar squat.
If you're trying to gain the most amount of muscle in the shortest amount of time as a novice the answer is clearly low bar. If you're trying to be quad dominant and not work your posterior chain then do high bar. That's the only reason anyone would need it.
Great video!Thx!I had the problem/idea very long about keeping the torso as vertical as possible(good for front squats though)but since i applied it for back squats the force was always too much on the knees/quads(having some idea that those should do the main work,this needless to say didn't allow for any particular increase in weights on the bar....i recently watch a video with Ed Coan where he talked about "open up the groin/sinking in to the hips",now,i'm quite new to squatting and i really wanna learn it,one interesting thing is that i'm pretty strong in the Leg press,but that seems not to mean shit really(think Mark R talked about that in another vid,well do you folks have some tip or advice here?Ok,regards from Sweden/M
Why do people always look like they're about to shit themselves out fear around Rip?
LiveLoveLift92 cause he speaks like he’s upset at you
Ha I feel you, I wouldn’t last too long in that type of environment. I’m the type that would interrupt and say but it feels like shit when I squat like that.
My problem with staying bent forward is that the bar likes to roll forward onto my neck. I assume it's a problem with my grip/stance, or it would happen to everybody.
As someone with bad sciatica I avoid low bar and bending my back... maybe I could do more but my posture feels better
Squatting this way always felt better for me with heavy low bar.
He can talk a glass eye to sleep
Don’t know why but could listen to rip talk about anything lol
The couch is pretty good!
I literally took Marks advice and beat that old idea out of my head..... Doctor is telling me I got a brain tumor for beating my head senseless.
I’d take a brain tumour for good Squat form any day
*Low bar squat.
With high bar squats you don't do that.
Toby Bromfield The thing that Rippetoe and starting strength are best known for is promoting the low bar squat as opposed to the high bar. It goes without saying that this is about the low bar squat since they explicitly have said that is the squat they teach.
Will Austin I was just saying, for those who have just come across this video by chance or don't know the channel. It's important to note. If you start doing high bar squats like this, you're going to run into some problems.
Toby Bromfield Oh yeah I definitely agree.
Well, high bar is rubbish. Low bar is more effective and efficient way to squat from a bio mechanical perspective.
Dick Johnson Why would you say that? There wouldn't be such a debate between high and low bar, and some body builders/power lifters/athletes using one and some the other, if they both weren't equally effective and liked. As long as an exercise isn't damaging to the muscle, you can't say it's rubbish, that's just ignorant. Some movements work well for some and don't work at all for others. I know many top trainers and body builders who swear by high bar. I personally much prefer high bar, but I'd never say low bar wasn't good. It's just preference.
I heard an angled back in sqauþing can give you herniated disks. Never heard it can shear your back. Is there any truth to that?
so when the Crossfit coach tells me to stand against and face the wall as closely as possible and squat, it's a bad way to squat?
no it's not a bad way to squat. It's a good way to train the body for front squats. Front squats are not back squats.
Ryan Finchum It's a bad way to squat, but a fantastic way to gift your coach a mental image that'll have him beasting with his calloused palm later that night.
BS in olympic weightliftig you stay as vertical as possible in all the squat variations and since crossfit uses OLY lifts this is the correct way to teach the squat. E.g. try to do an overhead squat while keeping that back angle ripp talks about -> you will tear your shouldres out of their sockets!
"They train high bar, front, and overhead which are best served by lots of dorsiflexion and a more upright posture." I rest my case ;)
exactly and you responded to that by first saying no, claiming that a horizontal back angle may be maintained during an overhead squat if appropriate shoulder mobility is a given. Then you kind of went back and "admitted" that a more upright posture IS in feact benfeficial for the overhead squat. (I don't intend to be polemic but indeed given an appropirate amount of mobility you can also snatch in a good morning position. I don't think this is a good argument).
Just to be perfectly clear I don't have anything against low bar squats but as far as I can see there is a reason why OLY lifters train highbar i.e. it is the most beneficial back(!)squat for their intented purpose. It is probably not the best form for general strength training (it requires too much flexibility) nor powerlifting (though this depends a lot on individual factors i.e. levrages, injuries etc.). If this is what you meant by "Good and bad for both styles" then my answer is yes. In any event a competent coach should be able to teach both styles.
The grandma-looking woman in the background is pretty hot.
Whose grandma does she look like?
grandma-looking: slav females in their mid 20s
That’s my mom...
@no yeah totally yeah, grandma
@no yeah totally definitely older than 35 😂
This is helpful. I'm 6'4" and don't lean forward enough. Additionally I can't get my heals on the ground. I squat on my toes and it puts way to much pressure on my knees; it's been like that for years. At the moment I'm just squatting on to a weight bench to build the muscle (body weight). I lose control on the way down and fall the last 6inchs or so. I have put a 2x4 under my heel and the fixes the problem at the moment but does not seem to cure it. I would appreciate any ideas.
Chad Wiley it could also be your hip flexibility, especially considering your height. Tight hips make it hard to squat very low. I recommend trying some hip stretches and see if it helps.
@@scottyg4962 Thanks Scotty G. It's a work in progress. I've gotten one of those exercise balls and put it up against the wall and can squat pretty good with the assist. I just need a plan of action or a holistic approach to get me to an actual squat. I'm sure if I had access to Mark he would get me there. I just don't want to give $ to a personal trainer then do the work and not get the result.
Could be lack of ankle mobility, dorsiflexion. An easy fix. Good luck
Chad Wiley I wish you the best of luck. I'm sure if you put in your hard work though that you will get the results you strive for.
@@markfrankham1 Yes, I think it's a combination of things. I'm doing dead lifts and some butt exercises to strengthen those muscles. Making progress on the way up but the way down I still lose control. Difficult to focus on a muscle one can feel.
5:35 Did he ever do a video on fixing lower back inflection???
My problem is that my hip flexibility is too good. As a kid I always sat with my knees up to my chin. So I tend to go too low with my damn squat.
Then I discovered after mulling it over, I think; that if I lean forward and shove my hips back that I tend to get more tightness when I reach just below parallel. But I still notice that my back angle tends to lag too much on the way up and I end up carrying the load with my back, kind of like a good morning.
But to be fair it’s not my back that hurts, it’s my knees.
And I know my back angle shouldn’t be vertical, and I know my knees need to be out.
Am I figuring this out? Thanks any tips are appreciated.
DEM HEWPS, gotta use them HEWPS
An upright below parallel squat should always be the goal, it will makes you much stronger, bigger and more mobile. But if you care about powerlifting then low bar might allow you to push bigger numbers.
Can you break this down for me, I don't understand the terms you used here
Upright below parallel?
Is that Mike Birbiglia?
Can we turn some lights on?
COULD one user vertical positioning for squatting on a Smith machine
i try to do this but i feel like im hunching over and rounding my lower back instead of bending on the hips. any recommendations?
emmanuelibus squeezing your chest up and keeping upper back tightness helps with that.
emmanuelibus Less weight.
emmanuelibus read the 3rd edition of starting strength
Actively pull the bar down to tighten the lats. Think the first movement down is back and the first movement up is hips forward as the chest comes up.
sh0ckwavex Your post doesn't reference who you're trying to reply to, but most shoulder and wrist issues which are associated with squatting are because people aren't actively pulling down. If you aren't pulling down, your body will instinctively try to push up against the bar. The bar is almost definitely more than you can overhead press. Besides keeping your upper and mid back tight, pulling down protect your joints.
Don't comment if you are just repeating things you've heard.
While Rippetoe's reason why people squat vertically could be correct for some, I personal feel that it's because it's easier to keep your shoulders down and back when the torso is vertical
god save the rip
To be completely precise, a non-vertical back angle DOES in fact shear the back. A cantilever beam with a load on the end is under shear stress. BUT, this is natural in the squat, which is Mark’s point.
low bar squat technique vs. high bar squat. or. powerlifting vs. oly lifting.
mark is insane. but i love him. he has true beliefs.
Dont the hamstrings extend the knees in a close chain movement?
Philipp Krinner hamstrings flex the knee and extend the hip. In a closed chain all that happens is the femur rotates but the strings do the same no matter what.
when you get the low bar in the right place and use hip drive heavy weight becomes much easier..
Where can I get that T-shirt?
At the Starting Strength Fall Classic weightlifting meet.
JP Belliard Nick Delgadillo is selling them on his Facebook page. Last day to order is today.
facebook.com/nickdelgadillo/posts/10212776920677484
JP Belliard squareup.com/store/retzev-training-and-logistics-solutions-llc/
JP Belliard Off Rippetoe's back if you're man enough.
Excellent thanks
40 Pizzas in 30 days
🤣👍💯🎉
My lower back keeps going into flexion no matter how hard I try to brace. How am I supposed to fix this? 😕😕
Matthew McNulty do Superman's lying face down, it's in rips book, do several until your lower back is fatigued, 3x10 something like that, introduce lactate to low back (it will get fatigued), and recruit muscle memory when you are pulling yourself into the hole (bottom of the squat) never drop into it, pull yourself in with lumbar and thoracic extension of spine, use hip drove to come out of the squat, maintain the knees spread apart and over the second or third toe (don't ever let the knees travel forward, that also means your hamstring lost tension and lumbar flexed) also, just get Rippetoes book, Starting Strength and read it
PearsAreOkay thanks dude. but I did manage to fix this a while back haha, appreciate though! And I have the book now :)
PearsAreOkay Hi! What do you mean with 'maintain the knees spread apart' and pulling yourself in the hole? Is that a conscious and controlled effort like pulling yourself under the bar when cleaning?
Am having a problem in that as i squat down i start to shift the weight to my heels n that messes everything bcoz it means i cant handle heavy weight. I feel/ know my legs can handle heavy weights but the mechanics r not right
Less weight, and it sounds like you're moving the bar path out of the straight line pattern. Break at the hips and the knees at the same time. (AKA = bend knees and bend down at the same time) and control the descent. You can push your big toe into the floor as another mental cue to keep your whole foot on the floor and the bar path vertical.
CHERNOBYL STUDIOS i will try it,
I’m a beginner and squat like this. I’ve been trying to fix it for a while.... turns out it’s ok? Yas
Having run sslp, I would have to advise against rip's coaching cues here. I encountered more and more of a good morning squat which resulted in me hitting a wall on my squat. I would advise people watch Quinn henock or squat university videos for a more complete squat tutorial. I would say that in a low bar squat, your torso will be inclined further at around 45 degrees but cueing hip drive out of the hole, eliminates the use of the quads and forces you to use your back to get through the sticking point.
Also see Greg nuckols' complete squat manual, it's probably the best complete squat guide out there
Obviously, you have to read the squat ch in the book which is 100 pages for the complete tutorial. This explanation is max 5-6 pages
“Your giant brain, the giant iPhone” -Mark Ripptoe
love the shirt Mark
"Bend over when you squat" They dont call him Rip for nothin.
Excellent, overturning the misconceptions.
Sir when i bend in squat the bar starts rolling and i dont feel comfortable
That's because you're placing the bar too high on your traps.
Honestly serious question is that a comedy show like “ the office “?
Great video This is true
I find that the back angle gets adjusted intuitively to maintain balance and it will vary with the weight you're lifting..
OG droppin knowledge
Even on a high bar squat?
No, high bar mechanics are different, as are the ways they target muscle groups. This style is more glute and hip dominant, while high bar is more quad dominant.
Is that a giant Rat-L-Trap hanging on the wall?
Anybody(that Olympic lifts) found that squats executed this way help
the snatch considerably? I have.
The Chinese do it. They believe that bending over allows more "muscle mass" can be applied (muscle of the upper back) to handle the load and not just that of the shoulders.
First there is no such thing as an "Asian/Chinese Body type". "American body type" ? Does not exist. There is a body type that is "preferable" for the Olympic lifts. This is the long trunk ,short legs and even shorter "femurs" . Several races/ethnic groups have this "physique" type although it may not be the "predominant" one for that race/ethnicity. The Chinese use a much more "bent over" trunk due to the exact reasons that I have stated.
Have to continue to "disagree" with you. Perhaps not all Chinese lifters display the "Hawk " position but many do. I am pretty sure that that they internally rotate the shoulder as well. Like I said I am pretty sure that I have read in more than one place that the Chinese believe that this overhead position is held further behind than most countries lifters do with the explanation that the muscles of the shoulder girdle are not sufficient to support the bar overhead as are the muscles of the upper back.This might be sufficient proof-facebook.com/chineseweightlifting/videos/1561573133964252/
As an interesting aside Andrew Charniga (Sportivnypress.com) has an article written that the Bulgarian sport scientists found that the High bar back squat correlated very strongly with the Snatch.
I watched this at 2x speed and it still felt slow. Actually felt like: Dad, I get it now let me do it.
Not gonna lie, I could listen to RIP reading a children’s book!
Does everyone from Texas talk like Arthur Jones? Oh, Arthur was from Arkansas?
Does Rip even lift lift bro?
Was going to ask "Who invited Michael Bloomberg?", but the guy's wearing a shirt with a SEAL trident, so I'll refrain. Much respect.
OK, but do people actually squat like this when they do 250kg + weights?