First Line Frenzy #7: An Editor Reviews Your Opening Line
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- Опубликовано: 7 сен 2024
- #FirstLineFrenzy returns to Reedsy Live with another opportunity to get feedback from a top editor. Any writer can submit the first line of their story for critique in an educational, fun, supportive environment.
Through her mini-reviews, Reedsy editor Rebecca Heyman will reveal what makes an opening line successful and compelling.
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Re: women's education and corsets. Corsets were worn well into 1910s and the first women's colleges in North America were opened in the mid 19th century -- so absolutely women wore corsets at schools!
Thanks so much, Miyuki! Exactly the kind of thing I’d be looking to confirm if I were editing that MS.
Exactly!
I find this video fascinating. It is so interesting to hear how people start pulling the reader in with the very first line. I would love to submit my first line for critique. I think one of the best things about the writing community is how we share information and learn from one another.
Hi there! If you register for our next FLF Live (which will be before the end of the year), you'll get an email link to a Google form where you can submit your line. I also post FLF critiques on my IG and Twitter, and I have a form over there as well. Hope to read something from you soon :0)
Rebecca: women don't bit lips, it doesn't happen in the world
Me bitting my lips all the time, even without a reason: oops
I find that a common tick for neurodivergent afab people and that comment kinda pissed me off.
For the newbies: It's not snow, it's a fence. 😆
Literally never get tired of seeing this :0)
You read my mind : ) I want to fall asleep in the sunlight on that couch in the background.
Just watched this. So much learning in the comments. Thanks
So nice to be here. Thank you for holding this.
Huge thanks for this. I've just caught up from Australia and now taking another look at my so-called 'finished' YA.
Thanks for watching, Peter! Good luck with your WIP.
Good afternoon from Salt Lake City, UTAH. USA Thanks in advance for all the Reedsy Staff does!
#2. Have you ever seen a partially-pregnant woman?
I learn so much from you both. Thank you so very much.
Thanks for being here, Marcie!
So excited you replied.
I actually like the faerie sentence. Its matter-of-factness and understated quality makes it more humorous.
Hugues from Boston, MA USA
Thank you for another First Line Frenzy
Hi Martin, watching on the catch up - many thanks Rebecca.
You’re so welcome, Terry!
I don’t know why Rebecca hopes that biting her lip isn’t the character’s thinking face….that’s exactly how I interpret that phrase and it paints a very vivid picture. I don’t know…maybe “biting” is what is throwing her off? Would “pursing” one’s lips be better? I think if it as “biting my lip” any time that my lips turn inward into my mouth (which, yes, is what my face does whenever I think about something that I’m unsure about).
Thank you for another brilliant FLF guys!!
Thanks for being here, Nina!
Have been looking forward to this session. Glad to be here
My line from the novel: The game of revenge
I claim that no one can win the game of revenge; every step in this game takes you close to the fire tub, and one day your heart stops beating.
This is intriguing but I'm not sure a heart would breathe? Maybe your heart stops beating? Otherwise I really like it :)
Oh! That was beating not breathing.
The line about the heart seems tacked on. Technically everyone's heart stops beating one day so the connection isn't clear.
@@tamarleahh.2150Your response really inspired me. It would be great of you share your kind opinion about modifying it.
Hi Martin I am Deidre Brock from Cape Town, South Africa. Love your webinars.
I think obsessing over the first line is not entirely justifiable. The Shining by Stephen King, which is undeniably a bestseller, starts with a simple sentence: "Jack Torrence thought: Officious little prick," followed by a fairly detailed description of a man who is a minor, albeit important character in the story. In terms of impact, my favorite books tend not to have a "planet-killer grade" first line. Would you expect a fantastic adventure after reading this sentence: "Alice had sat on the bank by her sister till she was tired" ?
What are you talking about. That's a great first line.
It sounds like she bit her lip, not because of a nervous habit, but because she was trying to eat something and she bit her lip instead. It happened to me all the time when I was wearing braces.
So glad to be here. Kathleen from NYC
Right you are. Ms. Woolf was not yet permitted to enter Cambridge - 1920s.
how about " Heavily pregnant, Mary trudged through the cemetery name shopping."
Considering the critique talked about not leading with the fact that the person is pregnant as far as the very first words I would maybe say, “Mary slowly made her way through the cemetery, shopping for names, both hands placed protectively on her growing belly”. Something like that. It’s so interesting to see how different people say things. I love seeing everyone’s ideas and thoughts on this. Very interesting!
@@ExploreEmbraceExpress bad advice. sentence is too long, you used two unnecessary adverbs - slowly and protectively. Why protectively? Who's she protecting it from?
Thanks so much great help!
When you say someone 'bit their lip' it can either mean by accident (like while eating) or it can refer to the action of gnawing your upper teeth along the pad of your bottom lip to peel the skin off. I do it, as do many people I know with anxiety, but maybe 'bit' just isn't quite the right word.
I bite my lip all the time. But it's one of those weird facial tics that happens when in deep thought more so than an emotional response. Kinda liked clicking a pen over and over. But I guess my point is people do bite their lips. But it has become somewhat cliche in writing.
I believe "cerimonialy seated" refers to japanese seating etiquette and the wording is a bit unfortunate. If you know the rules, you know exactly were the character sits. If not, it's confusing. I, as writer would not assume western readers would know. I just would find out were the persons sit and write that, if it's important. Those in the know will know, those who aren't at least won't be confused. 😅 I believe Let's ask Shogo has a video about who sits were if anybody is interested.
The way Rebecca was triggered by the whole lip biting thing was hilarious 😂
Never bit my lip in my long, long life, unless as a child when I feel on my skates.
fell, sorry
My first line is:
He was only eighteen!
Hello from Atlanta in the States.
The political statement at 26 mins was odd...
I feel bad my opening line didn't make it as a feature on this video. I want to see the critiques to improve my opening line.
But I'm glad I joined this live stream, thank you.
Thanks for being here, Jossef. As Martin mentioned, we got ~1600 lines submitted for this one-hour session, so getting to everyone was never in the stars. That said, I hope you'll keep joining us -- you never know when your line will be chosen.
'Off by heart' is a common saying, like 'off the top of my head', but the first thing I noticed in that sentence is the word 'off' is redundant, because 'by heart' works just as well. The sentence struck me as quite personal, so I probably would have gone with a name to start instead of a pronoun.
I can't figure out how to post to chat. But I am here.
Hello from Moss Beach, California
Hello from PORTLAND, MAINE
I was listening and not watching and I thought the second line was “Holy pregnant! A well-dressed woman went name shopping in a cemetery.” I liked it thinking about it that way. Voicey. But I agree with you completely when I realized it’s “Wholly pregnant.” Isn’t that funny?
When do you submit for first line frenzy?
Sign up to their newsletter and then they'll send you an invitation
Good morning from Mount Vernon Washington
USA
Hi from Northwest CT
Good afternoon from Vermont
Hi from Owatonna MN
Monica Bauer here in Tucson, Arizona.
Patience from Zambia
Sooo tempting, that semicolon thing.
I'd like to add my name to the chat, but I don't know where to put my greetings--so here it is!
From Gloversville, New York
Rob Anderson from Orlando
Marcia Willett from Theodore, Alabama
I thought the line at frame 37:00 could be adapted as an intriguing first line for a dark academia novel.
The first part is a complete sentence. no comma
Hi, Lakshmy Nair from Chicago.
i don't know why I bother clicking to this sort of thing. every comment the pretty lady makes wanting to know more about the weather, the scene etc, I want to scream:" It's the FIRST LINE! what do you expect?" Will writers PLEASE remember they're smart and stop this nonesense? I am a reader. I MISS reading good books. I"d never stop to whine about the very first line not giving me EVERYTHING. Jeez...
No... but the point of this video is to critique for the very best first line. She’s just completing the assignment. A single line might be what you read in the book store before making a purchase. It’s an important line! I love this series SO much, it is so incredibly fun to listen to, and the advice translates into advice for the rest of the novel’s writing.
@@paigeo1383 you seem like an intelligent young writer who wants to learn. I am a bit older than you and have also been curious and want to learn what can help me improve and therefore have loads of experience now in to what to avoid. I understand the intriguing notion that a good first line might be the key that gets you a literary agent or entice the reader,but it is a scam. why do you think all these people offering services for money( and young inexperienced writers waste tons of money on scams like 'helping with query', 'help with first line' stuff( cos this is what this is, promoting that ( in my opinion) idiotic notion and services), but think about it: why do all these people who insist the first line is a make or break( it isn't, speaking of experience) always (out of billions books throughout literary history) they only use this ONE example from Orwell's 1984? and I do think this lady tries her best to keep a straight face and be as constructive as she can given the insanity of this. I also think we are groomed into loving this sort of criticism( shark tank, apprentice, etc). There is a horrid sadistic manipulative person called query Shark that attracts insecure, innocent or sadism-voyeristic readers under the premise of " this is what you need to know to write the perfect query, these are the rules,stupid! etc" but a. all the advice she gives that is actually helpful, albeit very basic and mostly things one can find by googling " query letter writing" fits in half an A4 page. but no! instead this narcissist wants us to read all her snarky remarks and 'funny' put-downs because she KNOWS it's what makes it entertaining for her"audience". 2. many of her advice is rubbish, as it only applies to her( i say speaking of great experience on the matter) and not MOST agents around and 3. the query letters she praises and about which she goes" this is something I would represent myself" are almost always the ones that 'break' her rules. it's a joke. On writers. Because of course, in a saturated market, this extremely exposing of yourself art that is writing makes one insecure. But it also shows you how many desperate( as are most writers, including myself at some point) writers there areout there in the world. Here's what I've learned: 1. no great first line will land you an agent if ( and that's often the case) the rest of the chapter is 'meh'. 2. a 'busy' or 'cheeky-trying -to get-your attention' line might get you into trouble if the agent is tired, so keep it simple. As far as a reader goes, I never knew a reader who put down a novel with an interesting theme cos the 1st line!!!wasn't eye catching. if anything, I loath when I see an overly thought out 1st line, as it implies that it will only go downhill from here forth. there are also scam-services convincing writers that the first PARAGRAPH!! shuold have everything one needs, drama, the characters in full, etc. 3. Unless you write in a very very very commercial genre( the kind that does well even in self-publishing, with less exposure) or something very very similar to the latest hit( think of all the novels with "the girl .." in the title that were instantly sold to publishers after "gone, girl" or the movie version of " the girl with the dragon tatoo", the only thing that will get you to the publisher's door ( before you turn 70) is knowing the right people, having the right contacts, or similarly to lottery winning, good old lady-luck. I hope I'm not dissapointing you. Truth is, I'm very dissapointed with the publishing business anyway, which is why I changed professions and now represent musicians. good luck, keep writing, don't give up your day job and do what Marcel Proust and James Joyce did: write something unique or wait till you can do that, and then be an arrogant prick who dares to be different and when self-publishing pays for his own fake rave reviews on Le Figaro! good luck
@@classicalperformances8777 I’m not that young... I’m 30... granted... young to a 70-year-old, but it’s not like I’m a complete novice.
I don’t know what you were expecting out of a segment called “first line frenzy.” She concedes often that her own bias is affecting her response. *Oops, I pressed send and I didn’t mean to.. editing my comment now.*
Like I said - she’s just completing the assignment. I’ve personally never felt like I’m being sold something. I’ve felt like she is giving valuable advice to writers who need - or at very least want - it. I don’t feel like she’s putting anyone down. Sometimes she giggles or makes a remark or joke, but it’s good for people to see honest feedback that hasn’t been sugar coated to make you feel nice. (And at very least is the reminder that even if some people love your work, not everyone will.) Not everyone IS a good writer. However, it can be learned.
There are rules, and there are exceptions to the rules. The rule is that you want to grab the attention of a reader as soon as possible. And the goal of first line frenzy is to help your first line be able to achieve that. If you aren’t concerned with an attention-grabbing first line, then I’m not sure why you’re here! It’s in the name!
To each his own!
@@paigeo1383 by the way, 30 IS young and you look great!!
skip the Dumplings were never lonely ... start with-- Even in small batches assembled before sunlight, each dumpling had ninety-nine brothers and sister filled with juicy pork and spring onions formed into a half-moon shape by Fengui. ??
She needs to stop complaining about political names. Coming from a very politically opinionated person, I don’t care what names are in books. Unless it’s either of the two main candidates (Trump or Biden for example from the last election) I do NOT care if a character just so happens to have the same name as a political figure. When you bring in politics in things like this that are supposed to be fun and informative, it’s just annoying. We don’t care what your opinion is on the names of political figures, and the readers won’t care either. They’re just names. I don’t know where she’s from but McConnel and Kavenaugh are common enough names that nobody would think too much on it.
I dabber a bit in politics and new media here and there, but I have not the slightest idea whom these McConnel or Kavenaugh entities even are supposed to be. Then again, I'm just an unscholared European myself. A far and away little sibling sucking from the great McConnoleahouhoo family's teet. Yes, McConnoleahouhoo is my name. And laugh thai shall but my riches are pure and fortune and once invested I shall bow to no one and shall bath in ivory muhahaha.
Oh sh*t sorry, got a bit off there for second. Just wanted to say I have no bloody idea who those two chaps are either, but enjoyed and learned from the episode nonetheless.
@@gertje8875 Kavenaugh is a Supreme Court judge in the Republican Party that was kinda drug through the mud a while back. Honestly I had heard the name McConnel (coincidentally another Republican which makes me think she generally leans more left but regardless politics of any kind in stuff like this is just annoying) but I had to Google him😅 I try and keep up with politics but take breaks now and then. But my point was that nobody cares if character names just happen to be the same as random political figures. Names are names🤷🏻♀️
Hi Katelyn (and @Tubal below)! Thanks so much for watching. I want to respond to your criticism here and point out that I would give the same advice about any highly recognizable, potentially divisive name. For instance, I wouldn't want to see a fictive character named Thatcher or Obama. My advice to avoid the name McConnell isn't about political posturing; it's about offering authors insight about best practices. I also want to note, more personally, that First Line Frenzy is my creation. I've donated my time, expertise, and passion to this project for over five years. My opinions form the bedrock of this program, and so in fact, those opinions most certainly belong here. If you find that annoying, I respectfully recommend finding other free programming to enjoy.
@@firstlinefrenzy931 Obama, I can see, it’s more uncommon and highly associated with presidency (a point I also made in a previous comment), but Thatcher is more common and wouldn’t distract the readers from the story. I do understand where you’re coming from, but from a reader’s perspective I just don’t think it’s as jarring as you believe. The two names you happened to point out during the first line frenzy premiers are very common names and if agents or editors are picky over that so be it, but as someone who wants to be a published author someday that’s not something I would compromise in purely because it might offend someone or be seen as “divisive”. If someone is that bothered by a simple name they don’t have to read the book.
I can see the problem if someone used a specific name, for example Selena Gomez, which would be really jarring because of the status of the name and it’s association, but Selena and Gomez alone or paired with different names wouldn’t be anything other than simple, common names.
Again, I can see being pickier with higher up, more famous last names such as Trump or Pelosi (not sure if that’s common anywhere or not) or Obama or Bush, but the two you picked out were common enough that readers wouldn’t care.
I agree, that political statement threw off the rest of the video. I didn't notice the name until she pointed it out. This type of hypersensitivity is not needed.
The president could be a woman
Where can we post lines now?
Hello
Please help
You assumed that the president was a man, LOL.
She can't handle a common last name because a relatively obscure politician she dislikes shares that name (maybe 10% of the US population even recognizes this name, and even fewer can say more than that). She is WAY too into politics and maybe should consider making that her career instead. I stopped the video once I heard that... Wow. Just wow.
YEAH! BRIAN, SHE WAS REFERRING TO MITCH McCONNELL. HE IS NOT THE ONLY AMERICAN OF IRISH DESCENT TO HAVE THAT SURNAME.
I AM NOT HAPPY WITH HER PRESENTATION. IF SHE WAS MY EDITOR, I WOULD NEVER WRITE AGAIN. THE PROBLEM THAT I HAVE IS THAT A BOOK IS EDITED UP TO 8 TIMES, SO BY THE TIME IT IS POLISHED BY EDITORS FOR PUBLISHING, IT IS NO LONGER YOUR BOOK. TRAD. PUBLISHING WON'T CARE AS LONG AS IT SELLS, BUT YOU NO LONGER HAVE AN AUTHENTIC VOICE. THIS IS WHY PEOPLE DON'T FINISH THEIR BOOKS: EDITORS ARE GOING TO PISS ALL OVER THEM. AUTHORS ARE STORYTELLERS, NOT PROFESSORS OF ENGLISH GRAMMAR.
I HAVE ENOUGH MATERIAL TO TELL ME HOW TO SELF-EDIT, BUT I WANTED A PROFESSIONAL EDITOR TO DO A FINAL POLISH. I AM LOOKING AT SOMEWHERE BETWEEN AU$1695 AND AU$2,000 FROM JUST TWO SOURCES. THERE ARE ANOTHER THREE OR FOUR. I JUST DON'T HAVE THE MONEY.
ALSO, MOST AMATEUR AUTHORS WHO HAVE NEVER BEEN TO COLLEGE/UNIVERSITY WOULDN'T KNOW WHAT A STYLE GUIDE IS, AND WHICH ONE IS APPROPRIATE FOR YOUR BOOK. I WAS ALWAYS TAUGHT THAT UP TO TEN, YOU WRITE THE WORD, AFTER THAT YOU CAN WRITE THE NUMBER IN THE SENTENCE UNLESS IT IS AT THE START OF A SENTENCE. HOW MANY PEOPLE WATCHING CAN TELL ME WHAT STYLES THESE ARE: APA, MLA, CHICAGO.
I SENT IN MY OPENING LINE BUT THOUGHT IT LACKED CONTEXT, WHICH IS HER PROBLEM, SO I SENT IN SOME MORE SENTENCES TO GIVE IT SOME CONTEXT, SO I DOUBT IT WILL BE USED.
MY STUDY TELLS ME THAT THE OPENING TWO SENTENCES HAVE TO GRAB YOUR READER BY THE THROAT AND INCITE THEM TO KEEP READING. THEN YOU HAVE TO HAVE AN EXCELLENT FIRST PAGE. THEN YOU HAVE TO HAVE AN EXCELLENT FIRST FIVE PAGES. THEN YOU HAVE TO HAVE AN EXCELLENT FIRST 10 PAGES. YOU ARE NO LONGER A STORYTELLER. YOU ARE A GRAMMARIAN. ALL THE PEOPLE I HAVE READ OR WATCHED HAVE SAID THAT BAD GRAMMAR SUCH AS PUNCTUATION IS A TURN OFF FOR THE READER. I HAVE OCD. I USED TO BE AN EXCELLENT SPELLER AND GRAMMARIAN, SO THESE THINGS BUG ME. BUT YOU FIX THEM AS YOU GO ALONG AFTER THE FIRST DRAFT IS FINISHED.
I LOVE REEDSY AND HIS WEBSITE AND BUSINESS MODEL, BUT I AM NEVER GOING TO BE BEST FRIENDS WITH REBECCA.
@@1sirteddles if you write things in caps lock it looks like you're yelling words
@@1sirteddles She bothered me in this one too with the politics, but books go through so many rounds of edits for more than just grammar. Especially debut authors, the editors are also checking for plot holes and character arcs, dialogue tags that don’t work, repetitive words or phrases, plot development etc. there’s a lot that they help with and those things are also very important. If any of these things lack the book will be less enjoyable, especially for avid readers who pay close attention to details.
I think the main problem with agents today is they let their personal bias and preferences get in the way too much. Some agents only accept certain genres and it’s frustrating because it seems like the story potential doesn’t matter unless it’s something THEY want to read. Plus nowadays they want us to get all these special sensitivity readers and it’s bogus. At the end of the day there’s always gonna be someone who doesn’t like the story, and you just can’t help that, you can’t please everyone.
I do think she was a little too picky with these lines though. As an avid reader I always give the frost sentence, page and chapter the benefit of the doubt before I judge it. I’ve read books with boring first chapters that had an amazing story, and books with great first chapters but the rest of the book was awful. It just depends on the book.
Imagine being so invested in political theatre that the sight of a name not only triggers but compels you to make a statement about it. That has to be a type of psychosis right?
Her politics are awful, but she’s insightful. So I just ignore her politics and enjoy her other commentary. :) I also think it’s generally wise to not use a name of a prominent political figure unless the name is SO common like Brown or Smith. You don’t want readers to get distracted!
Ok. Can you clarify the rules next time? First line might be the first sentence to some. It's not to me and may not be to others. I think of a line of print and could be two sentences. Two of my snappy sentences might be shorter than one long literary allusion. So say clearly. One sentence only please.
Hi Harry! The "1st line = 1st sentence" rule is included in the registration email, I believe -- but we'll ensure it's doubly clear going forward. It's certainly been the "rule" since FLF began many moons ago. Apologies for any confusion, and thanks for being here :0)
@@firstlinefrenzy931 Thanks for that - but I've just checked through the process from invite to registration. It says First Line throughout, and I thought that sensible, to prevent unnecessary ellipses or colons. So if you mean First Sentences ONLY - then please say so next time 8-)
@@harryharrison2465 I'll pass that feedback along, Harry. Thanks, and sorry for any confusion!
Dear Martin, many of the workshops and webinars you host are absolutely fantastic.
But I will be bold enough to say that ‘First Line Frenzy’ is a waste of time and resources, and actually rather detrimental to a writer's craft and growth.
Here’s what I observed:
To start with, the Editor often comments on grammar. That’s not a meaningful response, because the author has not submitted the first sentence for a grammar check! Rather, a more wholesome response based on proven concepts and constructs would be valuable to the author.
Then, there are other reasons, supposedly from an ‘experienced editor’s point of view’. These are quite vague and unsubstantiated. For example, her feedback on a 'first sentence' submitted to her was that there are three names in the first sentence, which is likely to be confusing.
So how does one justify the success of this sentence: "Once there were four children whose names were Peter, Susan, Edmund, and Lucy."?
As you know, it’s from 'The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe’ by C.S. Lewis (1950)
In another example on this webinar, the opening sentence submitted was, "A few days after Christmas in 1934, Albert Einstein came to Pittsburgh to speak on infinity."
Her response was - '… It's a fact… so what?'
If so, how does that compare with:
"Call me Ishmael."
This, too, is just a fact - a character stating his name in the beginning of the book. You know where it's from: Moby Dick by Herman Melville (1851)
I do realise that a lot of writers register and attend the webinar and interact on the chat - which is great as a community-building activity. But so far as learning is concerned, it’s a big zero.
How flaky was that????
Please help