What is not controversial is that I am super happy that Allan is building my engine! We appear to be overachieving the initial HP target…and everyone loves an overachiever! Thanks, Allan!
Brother, you know there are some arm chair couch specialist that make no mistakes. Lol. You can't make everyone happy all the time. Some people some of the time. I learned long ago. You give some really great info. Everyone makes mistakes or says something not exactly the way you want to say it and social media will attack you. You know the couch specialists lol. Thank you the content brother.
That's all we can is learn. This is Hugh Robinson. I changed the name of my channel. Grampito is what I grandkids call me so I thought it would be cool to name it that.
No need to apologize Al, I’m sure you’ll get the heads mounted and engine buttoned up soon enough!! Another good video explaining different springs and what to look for 👌🏻
Also I can give you nearly 30 years of racing engine experience to help you and your viewers on how to eliminate or at least Almost eliminate any kind of flat tappet cam break in failure by simply drilling two holes behind the front cam bearing on a small block Chevrolet Simply remove the front cam bearing Locate the groove that's cut into the bearing journal in the block, drill a .090 hole from the center groove all the way into the lifter galley on both sides and reinstall the new cam bearing now you are oiling the cam and lifters from both ends at the same time rather than starting from the rear and working its way to the front which takes a long time. Hope this helps. Brian Salter Salter Racing
That particular tool your using might be a little off due to its quality but i just wanted you to know the discrepancy with the .150 drop in the top of it. They usually have a step and if you're retainer fits into the inside of it, instead of the outside, it can be off .150 because thats the typical drop depth from the outside diameter on top to the inside step. I have a tool like that, a name brand, and its great as long as you understand the step it has in the top. Also your installed spring can pull the valve up an additional.010 into the seat further than just pulling it up by the retainer and so screwing that tool tight against the retainer gives you an extremely accurate reading thats close to actual installed height when using a quality tool Please don't take what I said as an attack on you it wasn't meant to be Just trying to help
Great video as usual!! I have a peanut port headed Mark IV big block (the classic Marketplace buy so borderline worn out), that I’m swapping in a custom FT hyd Bullet Cam cam. 227/233 @ .050 108° LSA and .510 lift, I’ve checked for coil bind with the original springs and they’re good. Hopefully those tired old springs are just the ticket to break the cam in 🤞🏼
Good video Sir, I bought a cheap spring height micrometer 2 days ago, it looks the same as yours. I checked it with my Verniers and they are out , I have to turn the around to the .010 to get to 2.000. But for the money I paid I can't complain $20 vs $200+. Get what you pay for I suppose
I’ve had like .040 machined off the bottoms of retainers and also had small “lightening” holes around the top ridge in the past and got quite a bit of weight of them w/ out hurting their strength @ all..
The inner step in both of my height micrometers is .150. I have to allow for that with small retainers OR use a spring shim under the retainer to use the top of the micrometer, either way I have to calculate that in the final installed height. I don't know about the pro comp micrometer however the ones I have I had to calibrate. if you unscrew the micrometer all the way, the inner vernier scale ring is just lightly pressed on. You can pop it off where it's loose...screw it back together with the inner ring loose...use a set of calipers to set a known height and mark where the ring needs to be. Then unscrew it....line up the inner vernier with your mark on the inner screw feed and use a large socket/pipe whatever and a dead blow to press it back on. I had to do both of mine that way and got within .003 to .005. I don't know if that will work for yours or not, just throwing that out there. Maybe it'll help with yours. Hey great video! To many people over spring for their application and throw power away. Have a good day brother!
Thanks for the advice Mark. I did unscrew it, but the numbers are etched into the barrel so I cannot move them. You are correct about correcting for the .150 step on the top. AG
@@goldsgarage8236 What I'm saying is...that inner barrel is just lightly press fit to the inner screw feed. It's only held on by about a .100 step at the top. You can "tap" it off....turn it to correct it...and tap it back on. Mine were way off when I got them as well.
Young man can u do a video on setting preload on lifters? Every other video people are arguing whether or not to soak the lifters in oil first. I can't make up mind which is better.
Thanks for the question Guv. Sure, I will do that for you. You do not have to soak your lifters, but you should prime the oil system. The priming process will fill your lifters with oil for you. AG
I am rebuilding a Mopar 440 for my 12000lbs motorhome (73 Winnebago)..Engine had never been rebuilt..Totally original..After all the machine work, machine shop said the valve springs were fine to reuse..It had 125k miles before the rebuild.. Now with a slightly higher lift duration camshaft, would it be better to replace the original springs with new..even though the machine shop said that they were fine ?? Dodge had to lower the compression ratio by dropping the piston down to .150 below the deck..Had about a 7.75 to 1 compression ratio..New pistons brought that up to 9.2..dynamic about 7.9
Good question Michael. I think i would trust your MS. As long as the spring force is correct for the camshaft that they installed. We change springs on our race car as a precaution after 2000 laps at 6000RPM and they still meet new specifications. AG
@@goldsgarage8236 Thank you for the reply!! If an engine like this Mopar is turning 3000 rpm at 60 miles per hour, the springs squeeze and release 1500 times per mile..Multiply that by 125000 miles and you have 187,500,000 times it is flexed!! And I guess it can keep going!! This engine has a steel factory crank..Original bore (now 30 over) and the crank did not need cutting at all..Just a light polish..ready to go again This is a great channel!! Subscribed and keep up the good work!
I think it would be very valuable to make a pull to 6200 on the dyno to see if the engine actually goes into valve float. The cam grind might be designed well enough that there is no issue whatsoever.
Thanks Yarrda, based on our experience with the 602 valve springs, you are probably right. Usually we keep increasing the RPM on the dyno until the power starts to fall off. AG
Regarding the micrometer: Does it unscrew all the way (to where you're holding two pieces in your hands)? If so, perhaps the threads are such that it can be assembled more than one way. Maybe it was assembled incorrectly and can reassembled in such a way that it works properly. Just a shot in the dark.
That would be a pretty big cam, possibly a roller or even solid roller. Remember that the spring rate is in lb./in. so if you have a higher lift cam, the force will keep increasing. AG
@goldsgarage8236 the part that stumps me is that its rated for only .615 lift. They are ls springs. I dont know how much reciprocating weight is in those compared to a sbc.
Not really sure Brian. They were used with a solid roller race cam, they are pretty big. If you are interested let me know and I will check them on my spring checker for seat and open force for you. AG
Hello myfriend, I would love to know if you can tell me what's the max lift & RPMs these springs can handle, here are the springs specs: seat load 136 lbs @ 1.800'' , open 412 lbs @ 1.170'' , spring rate 438 lbs/in and coil bind 1.125'' , thanks in advance
The difference between the seat and open spec is .630". It depends on the weight of your valves and lifters, Roller lifters are heavier. They are pretty big springs so I would think 7000RPM would be no problem. To be sure I suggest you check with the manufacturer. AG
Thanks Ethan. i suggest you check with the cam manufacturer to be sure. It depends on whether it is FT or roller, the weight of the valve etc. Generally for a SBC with FT cam 110-120lb. on the seat, 280 at max lift. Roller cams have heavier lifters and faster lobe ramps so they need bigger diameter springs and more force. 150lb. on the seat and 320-350 open. Again, please check with the manufacturer for the correct specs for your cam. AG
I’m running stock springs to break the cam in how long do I leave them in before I change them out I don’t race it just a driver I have the springs the cam manufacturer said to buy
Thanks Robert, good idea to use the stock springs. As soon as the cam is successfully broken in you can remove them. After 30 to 40 minutes of run time should be safe. AG
Run conical as their the lightest and strongest setup u can get!! No need for titanium retainers w/ conical as there so small it doesn’t make $ense!! Lots of free’ed up Hp with light weight valve train parts !
![How To Lap Valves, Spring Height Micrometer, and Reface Valve Stems [EXPLAINED]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ziPg0qUF4Lg/mqdefault.jpg)
What is not controversial is that I am super happy that Allan is building my engine! We appear to be overachieving the initial HP target…and everyone loves an overachiever! Thanks, Allan!
Thanks Will. i hope to get back to your engine this week with more videos about the assembly. AG
Brother, you know there are some arm chair couch specialist that make no mistakes. Lol. You can't make everyone happy all the time. Some people some of the time. I learned long ago. You give some really great info. Everyone makes mistakes or says something not exactly the way you want to say it and social media will attack you. You know the couch specialists lol. Thank you the content brother.
Thanks Grand for putting all that into perspective. I am ok with constructive criticism and try to learn from my mistakes and get better. AG
That's all we can is learn. This is Hugh Robinson. I changed the name of my channel. Grampito is what I grandkids call me so I thought it would be cool to name it that.
Thanks Hugh. I will look for more comments from GrandpitoVic. AG
I have been following Gold's Garage for a few weeks now and this channel has become one of my favorites, great, solid info that's easy to follow.
Very nice compliment Neil. Thanks for watching and commenting. AG
ALWAYS valuable content coming out of Gold's Garage!
Thanks alleyoop, a loyal follower. AG
Hey thanks for the spring info. I was one of the ones asking for it.
Thanks for the suggestion @100. Let me know if there is anything else you would like to see.AG
No need to apologize Al, I’m sure you’ll get the heads mounted and engine buttoned up soon enough!! Another good video explaining different springs and what to look for 👌🏻
Your engine is my priority for today Roland. I will send you some pictures. AG
Ty for sharing your experience, knowledge and wisdom
And thank you for watching and commenting David.AG
Also I can give you nearly 30 years of racing engine experience to help you and your viewers on how to eliminate or at least Almost eliminate any kind of flat tappet cam break in failure by simply drilling two holes behind the front cam bearing on a small block Chevrolet
Simply remove the front cam bearing
Locate the groove that's cut into the bearing journal in the block, drill a .090 hole from the center groove all the way into the lifter galley on both sides and reinstall the new cam bearing
now you are oiling the cam and lifters from both ends at the same time rather than starting from the rear and working its way to the front which takes a long time.
Hope this helps.
Brian Salter
Salter Racing
Thanks for the tip Brian, that is a new one on me for sure. AG
That particular tool your using might be a little off due to its quality but i just wanted you to know the discrepancy with the .150 drop in the top of it. They usually have a step and if you're retainer fits into the inside of it, instead of the outside, it can be off .150 because thats the typical drop depth from the outside diameter on top to the inside step.
I have a tool like that, a name brand, and its great as long as you understand the step it has in the top.
Also your installed spring can pull the valve up an additional.010 into the seat further than just pulling it up by the retainer and so screwing that tool tight against the retainer gives you an extremely accurate reading thats close to actual installed height when using a quality tool
Please don't take what I said as an attack on you it wasn't meant to be
Just trying to help
Thanks so much for taking the time to share your knowledge and experience Brian. Very constructive and no offence taken for sure. AG
Great video as usual!! I have a peanut port headed Mark IV big block (the classic Marketplace buy so borderline worn out), that I’m swapping in a custom FT hyd Bullet Cam cam. 227/233 @ .050 108° LSA and .510 lift, I’ve checked for coil bind with the original springs and they’re good. Hopefully those tired old springs are just the ticket to break the cam in 🤞🏼
Thanks for watching and commenting Jimmy. AG
Good video Sir, I bought a cheap spring height micrometer 2 days ago, it looks the same as yours. I checked it with my Verniers and they are out , I have to turn the around to the .010 to get to 2.000. But for the money I paid I can't complain $20 vs $200+. Get what you pay for I suppose
Thanks for the comment Riverstone. AG
I’ve had like .040 machined off the bottoms of retainers and also had small “lightening” holes around the top ridge in the past and got quite a bit of weight of them w/ out hurting their strength @ all..
Thanks Baims. Very detailed. every little bit helps. Thanks for sharing. AG
AG, you always have to run higher valve spring pressure to prevent valve float over 6,000 rpm.. conical springs are a good ideal several benifits...
Correct, thanks Leonard. AG
Thank You Sir, for Great Information.
Thanks for the comment Seadogg. AG
The inner step in both of my height micrometers is .150. I have to allow for that with small retainers OR use a spring shim under the retainer to use the top of the micrometer, either way I have to calculate that in the final installed height. I don't know about the pro comp micrometer however the ones I have I had to calibrate. if you unscrew the micrometer all the way, the inner vernier scale ring is just lightly pressed on. You can pop it off where it's loose...screw it back together with the inner ring loose...use a set of calipers to set a known height and mark where the ring needs to be. Then unscrew it....line up the inner vernier with your mark on the inner screw feed and use a large socket/pipe whatever and a dead blow to press it back on. I had to do both of mine that way and got within .003 to .005. I don't know if that will work for yours or not, just throwing that out there. Maybe it'll help with yours. Hey great video! To many people over spring for their application and throw power away. Have a good day brother!
Thanks for the advice Mark. I did unscrew it, but the numbers are etched into the barrel so I cannot move them. You are correct about correcting for the .150 step on the top. AG
@@goldsgarage8236 What I'm saying is...that inner barrel is just lightly press fit to the inner screw feed. It's only held on by about a .100 step at the top. You can "tap" it off....turn it to correct it...and tap it back on. Mine were way off when I got them as well.
Here to support
Thank you Offshore, AG
Young man can u do a video on setting preload on lifters? Every other video people are arguing whether or not to soak the lifters in oil first. I can't make up mind which is better.
Thanks for the question Guv. Sure, I will do that for you. You do not have to soak your lifters, but you should prime the oil system. The priming process will fill your lifters with oil for you. AG
Great video. Thanks Alan
Thanks for the compliment Shanman. More to come. AG
I am rebuilding a Mopar 440 for my 12000lbs motorhome (73 Winnebago)..Engine had never been rebuilt..Totally original..After all the machine work, machine shop said the valve springs were fine to reuse..It had 125k miles before the rebuild..
Now with a slightly higher lift duration camshaft, would it be better to replace the original springs with new..even though the machine shop said that they were fine ??
Dodge had to lower the compression ratio by dropping the piston down to .150 below the deck..Had about a 7.75 to 1 compression ratio..New pistons brought that up to 9.2..dynamic about 7.9
Good question Michael. I think i would trust your MS. As long as the spring force is correct for the camshaft that they installed. We change springs on our race car as a precaution after 2000 laps at 6000RPM and they still meet new specifications. AG
@@goldsgarage8236 Thank you for the reply!! If an engine like this Mopar is turning 3000 rpm at 60 miles per hour, the springs squeeze and release 1500 times per mile..Multiply that by 125000 miles and you have 187,500,000 times it is flexed!! And I guess it can keep going!!
This engine has a steel factory crank..Original bore (now 30 over) and the crank did not need cutting at all..Just a light polish..ready to go again
This is a great channel!! Subscribed and keep up the good work!
Thanks Michael, i have a video about springs. Given the correct operating parameters, a spring life can be infinite. AG
Another great video.. thanks!!!
Thanks Eric. AG
I think it would be very valuable to make a pull to 6200 on the dyno to see if the engine actually goes into valve float. The cam grind might be designed well enough that there is no issue whatsoever.
Thanks Yarrda, based on our experience with the 602 valve springs, you are probably right. Usually we keep increasing the RPM on the dyno until the power starts to fall off. AG
Regarding the micrometer:
Does it unscrew all the way (to where you're holding two pieces in your hands)?
If so, perhaps the threads are such that it can be assembled more than one way.
Maybe it was assembled incorrectly and can reassembled in such a way that it works properly. Just a shot in the dark.
Good thinking KD. that makes sense, but it is a single lead thread and only engages in one location. I did try it though. Thanks for the input. AG
Since i got extra conical springs now, what kind of cam would require a 400lb open spring?
That would be a pretty big cam, possibly a roller or even solid roller. Remember that the spring rate is in lb./in. so if you have a higher lift cam, the force will keep increasing. AG
@goldsgarage8236 the part that stumps me is that its rated for only .615 lift. They are ls springs. I dont know how much reciprocating weight is in those compared to a sbc.
What kind of springs do you have for sale the big block springs
Not really sure Brian. They were used with a solid roller race cam, they are pretty big. If you are interested let me know and I will check them on my spring checker for seat and open force for you. AG
@@goldsgarage8236 Please do..250 seat 750-800 open.
Any videos on valve lash
Thanks for the question, yes we will do that for you on a future video. I am working on Camshafts 201 right now. AG
That spring hieght tool is ok, but since i have a set of snap gauges, i just use them.
Thanks Glenn. Good point, snap gauges are faster and accurate enough, I will probably do the same. AG
Hello myfriend, I would love to know if you can tell me what's the max lift & RPMs these springs can handle, here are the springs specs: seat load 136 lbs @ 1.800'' , open 412 lbs @ 1.170'' , spring rate 438 lbs/in and coil bind 1.125'' , thanks in advance
The difference between the seat and open spec is .630". It depends on the weight of your valves and lifters, Roller lifters are heavier. They are pretty big springs so I would think 7000RPM would be no problem. To be sure I suggest you check with the manufacturer. AG
How much spring pressure do I need for a .468 max lift cam with a max rpm of 6000 rpm?
Thanks Ethan. i suggest you check with the cam manufacturer to be sure. It depends on whether it is FT or roller, the weight of the valve etc.
Generally for a SBC with FT cam 110-120lb. on the seat, 280 at max lift.
Roller cams have heavier lifters and faster lobe ramps so they need bigger diameter springs and more force. 150lb. on the seat and 320-350 open.
Again, please check with the manufacturer for the correct specs for your cam. AG
I’m running stock springs to break the cam in how long do I leave them in before I change them out I don’t race it just a driver I have the springs the cam manufacturer said to buy
Thanks Robert, good idea to use the stock springs. As soon as the cam is successfully broken in you can remove them. After 30 to 40 minutes of run time should be safe. AG
@@goldsgarage8236 thanks
I always use desmodromic on my toys. Valve spring? What is that?))))
Thanks for commenting William.AG
Run conical as their the lightest and strongest setup u can get!! No need for titanium retainers w/ conical as there so small it doesn’t make $ense!! Lots of free’ed up Hp with light weight valve train parts !
Correct, conical is similar to Beehive in that the retainers are smaller and lighter. AG