I found the comments about arcstrider being cheesy feeling odd when set against the multiple gear swaps. For me, while gear swapping is obviously an optimal strat in lowman activities that are not tuned for lowman (like 3man raids and solo GMs)... Dungeons are tuned for solo play and it just feels... cheesy to have access to multiple full sets of mods and exotics when the clear design intention is to have only the one set. I'm not throwing shade on anyone for gear swapping. You do you. I'm just saying that it seems odd to say that an easy damage option is cheesy when swapping gear the way you are swapping it was literally only possible on PC until new-gen consoles came out, and even with loadouts, is still somewhat clunky on consoles. Meaning it's not intended playstyles. Which again, is fine. But when one exists as a usable and viable strat that doesn't require gear swapping, and the other does require swapping... To me the one that requires the swap is the cheesier option, even if it is more complicated and potentially more satisfying to execute on. Either way, you have solid and creative strats, and the production quality of the video is very solid. ESPECIALLY where you take time at the end to explain in detail (and slow motion) how exactly your strategy works and how to adapt if things don't quite go exactly to plan. Really this is a solid video and I appreciate you taking the time to make it!
Saying that loadout swaps are more cheesy compared to DPS builds which spam *melees* infinitely, healing you and dealing more damage than top tier weapon builds while only requiring a couple of shots of tractor cannon and a couple of special ammo is a pretty wild take. I did a 3-phase against Ecthar on void hunter yesterday, and when I checked RUclips to see how others did it, I couldn't find a single Hunter 3-phase that wasn't arc Liar's spam; or a single Titan 3-phase that wasn't solar mini-hammer spam. I also have a you-do-you attitude, and I think these builds should be usable, but they shouldn't be the *BEST DAMAGE* and also *EASIEST* at the same time, that's why they're so cheesy. I wonder how many people have forgotten to play the game in any other way since these builds have been around for years now and Bungie seems ok with it. I just find it weird. And if loadout swaps weren't an intended playstyle for PvE then we'd lose our ability cooldowns when we do them, like they've implemented in endgame PvP. There definitely isn't a "clear design intention" to have the one set or they could also lock our gear like in a GM. Plus, they could have not given us the loadout system at all? And the game as a whole being clunky on console is a handicap for console players, it's not the baseline the game is designed around, which is definitely PC. I held out as a console player for many years before moving to PC when I got frustrated that the game wasn't being optimised for console as a priority any more. Next gen helped a bit but at some point you have to accept you're basically playing with additional modifiers that make the game harder than its been designed for, when you stick to console. I appreciate the nice comments about the video though, thanks for those
@@glacierrays I think the nature of cheeses and exploits brings it down to personal opinion because there is overlap between them and between normal play. As you said, it's obvious that Bungie intends for us to swap gear on the fly. My take comes from a dev play through of Prophecy where their dev team confirmed that all dungeons are designed to be soloed. They are intended to challenge 3 people, but ultimately they're intended to be the pinnacle of solo play in the game. With that in mind, I find it hard to imagine that a dev is sitting there tuning the fight to be balanced around said dev's ability to hot-swap their gear. I agree that cheesy builds get in the way of players learning how to play the game properly. And that is part of why I personally don't encourage people to gear swap unless they're playing content like a 3 man raid or something. You know, content where the encounters are obviously tuned to be handled by more 3 people, and players have to swap gear around mid-fight to compensate for being understaffed. With that said, I don't really care that people do it. Just don't be shocked if some day they patch it out of the game. They already did in Trials, and they already made a "soft attempt" at it recently in normal play when they added that 2second delay to weapon firing.
I'm so relieved for you.
Haha thanks! Gonna give it a few days then will go back in and try some other builds out for 4-phases
I found the comments about arcstrider being cheesy feeling odd when set against the multiple gear swaps. For me, while gear swapping is obviously an optimal strat in lowman activities that are not tuned for lowman (like 3man raids and solo GMs)... Dungeons are tuned for solo play and it just feels... cheesy to have access to multiple full sets of mods and exotics when the clear design intention is to have only the one set.
I'm not throwing shade on anyone for gear swapping. You do you. I'm just saying that it seems odd to say that an easy damage option is cheesy when swapping gear the way you are swapping it was literally only possible on PC until new-gen consoles came out, and even with loadouts, is still somewhat clunky on consoles. Meaning it's not intended playstyles. Which again, is fine. But when one exists as a usable and viable strat that doesn't require gear swapping, and the other does require swapping... To me the one that requires the swap is the cheesier option, even if it is more complicated and potentially more satisfying to execute on.
Either way, you have solid and creative strats, and the production quality of the video is very solid. ESPECIALLY where you take time at the end to explain in detail (and slow motion) how exactly your strategy works and how to adapt if things don't quite go exactly to plan. Really this is a solid video and I appreciate you taking the time to make it!
Saying that loadout swaps are more cheesy compared to DPS builds which spam *melees* infinitely, healing you and dealing more damage than top tier weapon builds while only requiring a couple of shots of tractor cannon and a couple of special ammo is a pretty wild take. I did a 3-phase against Ecthar on void hunter yesterday, and when I checked RUclips to see how others did it, I couldn't find a single Hunter 3-phase that wasn't arc Liar's spam; or a single Titan 3-phase that wasn't solar mini-hammer spam. I also have a you-do-you attitude, and I think these builds should be usable, but they shouldn't be the *BEST DAMAGE* and also *EASIEST* at the same time, that's why they're so cheesy. I wonder how many people have forgotten to play the game in any other way since these builds have been around for years now and Bungie seems ok with it. I just find it weird.
And if loadout swaps weren't an intended playstyle for PvE then we'd lose our ability cooldowns when we do them, like they've implemented in endgame PvP. There definitely isn't a "clear design intention" to have the one set or they could also lock our gear like in a GM. Plus, they could have not given us the loadout system at all? And the game as a whole being clunky on console is a handicap for console players, it's not the baseline the game is designed around, which is definitely PC. I held out as a console player for many years before moving to PC when I got frustrated that the game wasn't being optimised for console as a priority any more. Next gen helped a bit but at some point you have to accept you're basically playing with additional modifiers that make the game harder than its been designed for, when you stick to console.
I appreciate the nice comments about the video though, thanks for those
@@glacierrays I think the nature of cheeses and exploits brings it down to personal opinion because there is overlap between them and between normal play. As you said, it's obvious that Bungie intends for us to swap gear on the fly.
My take comes from a dev play through of Prophecy where their dev team confirmed that all dungeons are designed to be soloed. They are intended to challenge 3 people, but ultimately they're intended to be the pinnacle of solo play in the game. With that in mind, I find it hard to imagine that a dev is sitting there tuning the fight to be balanced around said dev's ability to hot-swap their gear.
I agree that cheesy builds get in the way of players learning how to play the game properly. And that is part of why I personally don't encourage people to gear swap unless they're playing content like a 3 man raid or something. You know, content where the encounters are obviously tuned to be handled by more 3 people, and players have to swap gear around mid-fight to compensate for being understaffed.
With that said, I don't really care that people do it. Just don't be shocked if some day they patch it out of the game. They already did in Trials, and they already made a "soft attempt" at it recently in normal play when they added that 2second delay to weapon firing.