how do you know its true (you dont) and radical love would be justice not eternal tourture for conciously stealing and then not beliving due to bad evidence and reasons being rejected
Of course they oppose it, how else would they scare us into submission? Look at some of the politicians these days. If you just listen to what some of them say logically you will be hard pressed not to facepalm and wonder why nearly everyone else fell for the lies. They have been brainwashed. It is similar to how we have been brainwashed into thinking that Hell would be eternal torture. There are various ways the Greek Bible has been mistranslated and by the time that translation makes its way to English the meanings of some words may have gotten twisted. Is it because Greek is a difficult language for people who speak English to read? Maybe. I also feel that the mistranslations were deliberate as a way to scare us. How hard would it be to change a word here and there and have something with a completely different effect? Not really that difficult with enough time to proof read it and fix grammar and spelling errors so it sounds more convincing..
My observation is many Christian’s will believe in hell before God’s mercy. And to me that makes hell the focus of worship and not God. Think of it this way before you believe and seek forgiveness of sin one must believe in a consequence of that error. who is seeking redemption: the person who seeks to avoid punishment or the person who sees an error and turns from it out of love for God and neighbor? The true answer is both shall be saved. The first with compassion and the last with love. Its is inconsistent with what we know of God to believe in eternal damnation.
And do you know why it Dosen't seems like something that jesus would do because he never actually said he would Christians just made it up let me Show you what the Bible Actually teaches about eternal life and Hell
danm imagine this imagine if I was to give you a Gift and you say to me no thanks I decline your gift and Because you declined my gift I torture you wow what a terrible god we Christians serve right? That would all be true if that was actually what jesus teached in the Bible about hell pls what you Christians have been teaching is just simply not true God is not punishing you in Burning Flames for All Eternity there is not one bible verse not even one that indicates that let me tell you what God will actually do and im gonna prove it with bible scriptures see what is gonna happen is that those who followed jesus will simply live forever and those who died in their sin are simply going to die and the Punishment when they get thrown into the Lake of fire is Eternal Death that's why it says that's the second Death in Revelation 21:8 it does not says eternal torment also think about this if the Eternal life is a Gift of God then Eternal torture does not even make sense because in order for you to burn forever you have to be imortal which only the redeemed people in Christ will be Romans 6:23 for the Wages of sin is DEATH notice how God never say is eternal torture yet for some reason that is what Christians say God is gonna do let me end the verse For the wages of sin is death but the Free Gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our lord so now think about this if Sinners were to live forever even if its in Torment what exactly is the Gift of God? It Dosen't say its heaven it clearly says eternal Life you cannot be eternal without God so some Christians saying that Sinners are gonna burn forever is just not true cause that would mean that sinners also have eternal life also let me give you the ultimate prove to Show you that people simply just lie and God dosen't let sinners burn forever Jesus Died for our sins notice how he never got tortured for our sins for All eternity but he died and do you know why Because God dosen't get any pleasure out of us suffering for All Eternity that will never satisfy his Wrath and anger towards sin that's why sinners will have to die in order for Gods anger towards sin to end Because if sinners Were to sin for All eternity in Hell against God ,God would be angry for All eternity also Revelation 21 1:4 says All the Former things will pass there will be no more pain now think about this firstly the verse wouldn't even make sense if sinners Were to still burn and continue sinning in Hell then the Statement that all former things will pass would be false secondly if God says there will be no more pain do you think there is going to be a Torture Chamber for sinners?? Is simply not true what will happen is you will be thrown in to the lake of fire yes but its not forever what will be forever is the Punishment you will die forever you are not more going to be existent and is only fair Because God gave you this life we was not existing in the beginning or even 100 years ago god offered us a Gift that we can either accept or reject and the result of not accepting god is that life is taken back Because ultimatly God gave it to you God dosen't have any reason to torture you forever for a life you did not wanted God is so mercyfull and loving and the Fact that Christians think that that's what God is going to do Roast sinners forever is just so funny to me and Ending this whit if we humans Were really imortal and our soul to what was the point of the Three of Life? And why did God prevent Adam and Eve to eat from the Three of life if they are imortal anyways also in Genesis 3:4 this is what the Devil Told Eve when he tempted her to eat from the forbidden Fruit You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman.its seems like the biggest lie of the Devil was that we humans are Gods and are certainly imortal and that we can never die even if we get tortured for All eternity I mean we still don't die don't we it seems like Troughout the Bible it was only Life or Dead there is no such thing as eternal Torture is either life or Dead and the lie that many belive is that we are imortal that Is what the Devil wants us to think we are going to be gone forever Because even if you were to b•urn in hell forever God would still be there he's omnipresent
I don’t think your theory is correct but neither is eternal torment. The wages of sin is death. Also do not fear man that can destroy the body but fear God who can destroy both body and soul in hell. Your choices matter. Christ is King.
Well, it originated with St. Augustine in his translation of the Greek word "Aionis" which means "age enduring" but he insisted it meant "Eternal" i.e. "Eternal Torment" This was under the rule of Constantine. And was used to instill fear into the Europeans during the dark ages, far before Colonization (or at least the Colonization outside of Europe) But yes, it was the minority view for the first 500 years of the Church.
That is all it is, a simple twisting of the translation. The only true Bible there ever was is the original texts which are in Greek. Unfortunately I do not know how to read Greek.
God BLESS YOU!! Your heart is good and we know our God does not torture flawed humans for eternity. Eternal life in hell? People dont grasp what this actually means.
When you believe in a god, that doesn’t want all people to flourish, you have no motivation to want to see all people flourishing. What’s worse, is that when you believe that “God” doesn’t love all people, you are able to defend your own prejudice. I know I am preaching to the choir here, but it has taken me many years to have the courage to write such a comment. I am still working through a lot of legalistic thinking. Good livestream with Tim today, man!
Are you trying to suggest that man-made, man-written, man-compiled, man-edited words of men who claimed invisible voices spoke to them, and which reflect the values, attitudes, knowledge, and myths of the time they were written, are not the words of a god? How did you come to that conclusion?
The work of man. How did you come to that conclusion because to say that shows that you don't know anything about God or the Bible. The Bible has Godly wisdom that no man on Earth could come up with on his own so your stance on thinking the Bible is the work of man is rather stupid and has no foundation for truth. People will believe any and everything except God and His word.
@@dumbcat the bible is full of scientific facts, for example yesterday i saw that there is one verse in the bible that says Air has weight, which is a fact today
Thank you! I think it goes even deeper than colonization, but to the very Calvinist foundations of Liberal ideology. If we accept that those who are not blessed are not chosen, then we can pity them, but we can do little to help them.
Calvinist ideology easily goes down both sides of the political isle. But yes, very few people realize how influential Calvinist ideology was in the formation of American religion. (Puritans, the Great Awakenings…etc)
Incorrect. This man is not inventing this view. This would not have been the majority view in the earliest church closest to Jesus time if it were so easily debunked by your statement. Don’t you think before you speak? Do you think you’re that brilliant? lol it is only through Jesus that restoration is possible. God in Christ restoring the cosmos to Himself. 1 Corinthians. Before Jesus we were all dead in our sins. Death is the sting of sin. But because of Jesus, death is now swallowed up in victory. Death was the fate of sin, not eternal torture in hell. With the resurrection comes restoration. The Father restored us into a purified state through the fire. The word picture of Proverbs 17:3, Isaiah 48:10… in fact, why do you think brimstone/sulfur is added to the fire? Refining through sulfurization.
The Kingdom of God is within you, and You are the Temple of God. My vision is we can change this hole world one act of love at a time. In the long run, love will win. God is patient..... but ❤ is stronger, in the long run we will ALL be saved by Gods love. Why? Becouse ❤️ IS stronger. God is the strongest force in the hole universe.
Early Christians essentially believed in Mormon doctrine. Three degrees of glory in the afterlife. People who are wicked, murderers, receive the lowest degree of glory. Essentially where the lowlifes go after their redemption. Gang members, murderers, dictators, etc. Honorable go to the middle kingdom. The righteous receive a fullness. Read Papias, Ireneaus, Origen, and John Chysostom. Its also taught by Paul in the new testament. And Jesus himself said "the dead that believe on the son of man will be given mercy" essentially, meaning ALL of the dead. Obviously eternal hell makes God a monster worse than Hitler. The idea is repugnant. If that is true I am with you. There is no God. But the entire message of Christianity was supposed to be about deification. God partaking of the suffering of man in its fullness, so that he might fully share his attributes and glory in its fullness. The giving of godhood. The way I look at this is its impossible to have a change in someones life unless you are willing to share in their life. Can you have a relationship with a woman without sharing in her life? In her struggles, and even internalizing that. NO! So why should God be able to effect change unless he is willing to share in a persons life? I look at in relational terms. The degree of salvation is equal to the degree of a relationship you are able to have with God. I am sure none of this matters to you since you are an atheist but explaining my perspective. Also early Christianity should be closer to Judaism for obvious reasons.
That's the issue. Scripture got often edited. For example name is Yahaveh not God: Godriel = Satan. And yet we should not question? There is no love in it.. I start to think God is the Demiurge.. extremely inteligent but not really for our own good. There is nothing good in eternal torture. Even if I get "saved" I can never stand besides God and accept that as righteous punishment. No matter how wicked I've been I would never In my life even consider ever doing that to someone. People can change.
@zalmoxe6842 It's greek mythology influence. Aionios does not translate to eternal or forever yet our modern bibles say it does. The spirit is put through a purification which will only be age abiding at most. Jesus is the reason through God's plan that any purification can now take place.
Torture was bastardized from the word touchstone. The word we got for forever or eternal was more along the lines of æon. age. Eon. The smoke of their touchstone will rise up In the age of ages. A touchstone as you know is used to test for impurities. For he sits like a refiner. Well now , the verse of in the presence of God and his angels. That's the one that resonates with me. For it contradicts eternal separation from God. For we are in his presence when he purifies us. Furthermore brimstone is sulphur used to remove impurities, much like in blacksmithing. The lake of fire is not a lake at all but a pool of fire, the refiner's crucible. That is his plan. To purify even the devil himself. He is the Creator. The OG. Of course Dude has a crucible in which he can create, and refine. That's where it all started. He's not going to look his creation, his children in the eye, and say you're broken and beyond repair. Into the fire you go.. No. He would say my child you are broken I have the tools for the job. He wouldn't toss us into the fire without reason, or out of spite. For God Is Love. He puts us in the fire to purify even the most wicked. God creates for a purpose, he does not make mistakes. Once we are created, we exist . Period. He saw that it was good! We live forever. That's how it ends. God giveth Life. Amen
The myths of Gehenna and Hades were developed before Christ came. 1 Enoch describes fire, cries of pain, and darkness. Jews adapted the sleep of Sheol and added all sorts of Greek ideas into it.
They basically believed what Joseph Smith taught and why the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is accused of being a cult. They believed in three degrees of glory, those in the lowest glory are the wicked. Read Papias. This was preserved by Ireneaus, and origen and John Chrysostom believed the same. They did not believe in universal salvation in the sense that everyone will receive the same reward, but universal salvation in the sense that some receive a partial salvation, and some receive a fullness. I believe this changed with Augustine. Three degrees of glory was the predominant view in early Christianity. The idea of eternal hell makes God a monster worse than Hitler. But in the true understanding of things, even Hitler as bad as he is can find a measure of redemption.
It is not. That is a twisting of scripture. Read paul with 1st corinthians 15, and early Christians did not believe in eternal hell. Papias, ireneaus, origen, etc. But I am sure a Christian living 2000 years after the fact knows more than people living then, based off a few verses stripped from their historic context.
Ummm no eternal torment is not even in the Bible... yes hell is actually not eternal and im happy that alot of people have finally came to the truth The OPPOSIT Of Eternal Life is Eternal Death That is the Eternal punishment its eternal Death the result of the fire is eternal and the Punishment of your DEATH is FOREVER not eternal torture is literally that simple to understand also just the fact that Christian say hell is seperation from God for All eternity well that's not true either psalms 139:8 Says this If I go up to the heavens, you are there; if I make my bed in the depths, you are there. 9 If I rise on the wings of the dawn, if I settle on the far side of the sea, 10 even there your hand will guide me, your right hand God is clearly omnipresent so the Idea that he wouldn't be in Hell is false that's Why Revelation 14:10 says this 10 he also will drink wthe wine of God's wrath poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and yhe will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. Notice how Gods presence is still in Hell so the Idea that hell is eternal torture that is seperated from God is Satanic Doctrine God is Omnipresent and is therefore everywhere the biggest lie of the Devil was to deceive people into thinking that we are imortal is just simply not true and again if the Punishment of sin is eternal torture jesus Death dosen't make sense because jesus took our sin And therefore took the Punishment that we deserved on himself what was the PUNISHMENT? It was Death again DEATH Not eternal Torture and why did Jesus Rose again because that is what we believers are gonna experience we are going to rise again and live forever that is the Gift of God the Gift of God is living because if sinners also get to live forever even if its a miserable life that means they also have eternal life and they still would somehow be in Gods presence Rev 14:10 comfirms that Gods present is in hell ....see how the Idea of eternal torture just fails in every aspect in oder to be seperated from God for All eternity you have to be non existent that's why eternal torture does not work not only that if sinners Were to burn forever without dying just think about this its kinda an act of Grace because Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego were in fire and were not consumed by it that's why God says to the wicked But the wicked will perish psalms 37:20 Though the LORD’s enemies are like the flowers of the field, they will be consumed, they will go up in smoke. they will be Gone annihilationism is definitely the truth on what God is planing on doing God even is so loving for some Christians to even think he's gonna Roast sinners forever is Just WOW
@kennethyoung7564 5 of the 6 early schools of Christianity believed in Christian universalism or ultimate reconciliation well in to the 6th century AD
Augustine and Turtulian definitely believed in eternal punishment. Long before the era of colonialism. The justice of it also depends on if people are able to take responsibility for their misdeeds without blaming others or circumstances. A parol officer that let out a criminal that did not take responsibility for his actions or showed little remorse for them would be an unjust officer. There are a lot of people out there that will never admit they were wrong no matter what you say or do to them.
Eternal torment is 💯 pagan. John the Baptist called Jesus the Savior of the world. John said he is the propitiation for our sins and not ours only but the whole world. Luke states all flesh shall see God's salvation. Paul said God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. Which of these verses should i jettison in order to buy into the doctrine of eternal damnation?
This always puzzles me when someone asks this. Are you revealing something disturbing of yourself here? What is it you want to do but don't because of "hell"? It seems some people need that guard rail to keep them in check. Many atheists out there and they don't go around murdering and raping people and that's without a belief in "hell". You may want to evaluate and get some therapy about your impulses you are resisting only out of fear of "hell".
You lost me at colonialism. Not everything is the fault of colonialism... Over 1,000 years passed between Basil of Caesarea and the start of anything we would consider colonialism by Christian peoples. Not the least of which was the rise and influence of Augutine of Hippo. Also, since most Christians have believed in eternal conscious hell, including the many who have done many great, even wordl-changing things, it's hard to justify the claim that the reason the world isn't a egalitarian utopia is the fact that univeralsim isn't more popular among Christians.
danm imagine this imagine if I was to give you a Gift and you say to me no thanks I decline your gift and Because you declined my gift I torture you wow what a terrible god we Christians serve right? That would all be true if that was actually what jesus teached in the Bible about hell pls what you Christians have been teaching is just simply not true God is not punishing you in Burning Flames for All Eternity there is not one bible verse not even one that indicates that let me tell you what God will actually do and im gonna prove it with bible scriptures see what is gonna happen is that those who followed jesus will simply live forever and those who died in their sin are simply going to die and the Punishment when they get thrown into the Lake of fire is Eternal Death that's why it says that's the second Death in Revelation 21:8 it does not says eternal torment also think about this if the Eternal life is a Gift of God then Eternal torture does not even make sense because in order for you to burn forever you have to be imortal which only the redeemed people in Christ will be Romans 6:23 for the Wages of sin is DEATH notice how God never say is eternal torture yet for some reason that is what Christians say God is gonna do let me end the verse For the wages of sin is death but the Free Gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our lord so now think about this if Sinners were to live forever even if its in Torment what exactly is the Gift of God? It Dosen't say its heaven it clearly says eternal Life you cannot be eternal without God so some Christians saying that Sinners are gonna burn forever is just not true cause that would mean that sinners also have eternal life also let me give you the ultimate prove to Show you that people simply just lie and God dosen't let sinners burn forever Jesus Died for our sins notice how he never got tortured for our sins for All eternity but he died and do you know why Because God dosen't get any pleasure out of us suffering for All Eternity that will never satisfy his Wrath and anger towards sin that's why sinners will have to die in order for Gods anger towards sin to end Because if sinners Were to sin for All eternity in Hell against God ,God would be angry for All eternity also Revelation 21 1:4 says All the Former things will pass there will be no more pain now think about this firstly the verse wouldn't even make sense if sinners Were to still burn and continue sinning in Hell then the Statement that all former things will pass would be false secondly if God says there will be no more pain do you think there is going to be a Torture Chamber for sinners?? Is simply not true what will happen is you will be thrown in to the lake of fire yes but its not forever what will be forever is the Punishment you will die forever you are not more going to be existent and is only fair Because God gave you this life we was not existing in the beginning or even 100 years ago god offered us a Gift that we can either accept or reject and the result of not accepting god is that life is taken back Because ultimatly God gave it to you God dosen't have any reason to torture you forever for a life you did not wanted God is so mercyfull and loving and the Fact that Christians think that that's what God is going to do Roast sinners forever is just so funny to me and Ending this whit if we humans Were really imortal and our soul to what was the point of the Three of Life? And why did God prevent Adam and Eve to eat from the Three of life if they are imortal anyways also in Genesis 3:4 this is what the Devil Told Eve when he tempted her to eat from the forbidden Fruit You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman.its seems like the biggest lie of the Devil was that we humans are Gods and are certainly imortal and that we can never die even if we get tortured for All eternity I mean we still don't die don't we it seems like Troughout the Bible it was only Life or Dead there is no such thing as eternal Torture is either life or Dead and the lie that many belive is that we are imortal that Is what the Devil wants us to think we are going to be gone forever Because even if you were to b•urn in hell forever God would still be there he's omnipresent
@@kittiesandbotsgemini9892umm your wrong tho yes hell is actually not eternal and im happy that alot of people have finally came to the truth The OPPOSIT Of Eternal Life is Eternal Death That is the Eternal punishment its eternal Death the result of the fire is eternal and the Punishment of your DEATH is FOREVER not eternal torture is literally that simple to understand also just the fact that Christian say hell is seperation from God for All eternity well that's not true either psalms 139:8 Says this If I go up to the heavens, you are there; if I make my bed in the depths, you are there. 9 If I rise on the wings of the dawn, if I settle on the far side of the sea, 10 even there your hand will guide me, your right hand God is clearly omnipresent so the Idea that he wouldn't be in Hell is false that's Why Revelation 14:10 says this 10 he also will drink wthe wine of God's wrath poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and yhe will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. Notice how Gods presence is still in Hell so the Idea that hell is eternal torture that is seperated from God is Satanic Doctrine God is Omnipresent and is therefore everywhere the biggest lie of the Devil was to deceive people into thinking that we are imortal is just simply not true and again if the Punishment of sin is eternal torture jesus Death dosen't make sense because jesus took our sin And therefore took the Punishment that we deserved on himself what was the PUNISHMENT? It was Death again DEATH Not eternal Torture and why did Jesus Rose again because that is what we believers are gonna experience we are going to rise again and live forever that is the Gift of God the Gift of God is living because if sinners also get to live forever even if its a miserable life that means they also have eternal life and they still would somehow be in Gods presence Rev 14:10 comfirms that Gods present is in hell ....see how the Idea of eternal torture just fails in every aspect in oder to be seperated from God for All eternity you have to be non existent that's why eternal torture does not work not only that if sinners Were to burn forever without dying just think about this its kinda an act of Grace because Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego were in fire and were not consumed by it that's why God says to the wicked But the wicked will perish psalms 37:20 Though the LORD’s enemies are like the flowers of the field, they will be consumed, they will go up in smoke. they will be Gone annihilationism is definitely the truth on what God is planing on doing God even is so loving for some Christians to even think he's gonna Roast sinners forever is Just WOW
I don't believe in eternal conscious torment, but universal salvation is equally unbiblical, just like how Sunday worship is equally unbiblical, and that's been going on for over 1000 years. Choose life, not sin and death, it's made very clear especially in revelation that two groups will be made separate, one is the believers, and the others who did not truly believe, who are destroyed. That being said I do think that those who have not even heard the gospel but have lived their life according to the law overall, have a chance at forgiveness.
no worries mate,, by your logic I should probably go back to smoking meth. Heroine fetinol xanax and literally just every single other drug I spent 20 years realizing how much it would kill me and kept going back. One day god did respond and restored my body mind and heat over 2 weeks! Sober now praising his glory his name! I’m here watching this thinking about myself hearing you message “you are just perfect spending 6 figs a year while away on flights and high profile events and vain ambition mixed with drugs to the 10th power and no grace joh or personal power of peace…. I’d summarize Jesus must like me like this!! Sweet.. no sir edification of your soul searching and your personal choices change as soon as God comes in. Good has no plans to glorify anyone in sin, because he’s busy saving up the real men pulling up and Out of darkness spiritually
@@kyleham1916 If I can understand his point and your point correctly and conclude it in this sense, he's talking about the after life, after judgement day (Pure assumption, I don't know whether judgement day exists for jews) so in that sense you shouldn't go back to everything you used to do, but if the Original Poster agrees with the youtube short creators comment on eternal damnation, then I must understand it in a sense that his religion has the same perspective. That we will all be saved, this means that you can go back to doing what you used to do since your eventually gonna be saved anyway 🤷♂️
@@kyleham1916i just got clean last 2 years from meth and Cocaine and just last month stopped smoking cigarettes and alcohol i only drink maybe one or 2 shots once every 7 or 8 months excluding the wine at church yea we use actual wine and kids are not eligible too be baptized and receive communion until baptism and they must complete classes before baptism so they do not take a false pledge too god that way they fully understand what they are doing who they worship and love and fear and who too follow and not the ways of the world and too love everyone even your enemies. Our church thinks kids should be at the age of accountability and actually understand there are consequences for sin and not repenting and turning away from the sin.
Well, here's the Good News. Every knee will bow and and tongue confess. It is stated in four different text that all (literally every single person) will make this confession.
No love does not change the world. The world has many forms of love. The love of self the love of money loving your children more than God. Your message is seducing, because it comes from the carnal mind.
I don't know about that, Jesus summed up all of the Law and the Prophets with two commandments to love. He also said that loving one another is how everyone will know we are his disciples. Seems like he thought love was of primary importance.
@@johndavid3474 Yes…? Do you feel that means he did not change the world? Cause here we are talking about him 2,000 years later… Seems like the kind of love Jesus talked about had so much power to change the world that the Roman state and Jewish church leaders felt he was a dangerous person and had him executed.
@@Kira_Martel What no one ever told you is to be a disciple of Christ means forsaking this world, why? Because the god of this world is Satan. If you believe LOVE will change the world then you are giving heed to seducing spirits.
Ypu're right about Saint Basil and universalism. You're sincerely WRONG about the origins of eternal punishment. It's origins have nothing to do with 'colonisation'. You need to go much deeper and further back. I'm talking Clement of Rome (35-101 AD), Justin Martyr 100-165 AD), Hippolytus of Rome (170-235 AD) etc. Then read their influence on the medieval scholastics who further developed the doctrine of eternal damnation. The concept of eternal damnation was then carried into modernity through the protestant reformation (Luther, Calvin etc). Come on dude, the whole 'muhh colonisation bruh' answer was really superficial and disappointing here🙄🤦♂️ This is what happens when you try and interpret theological issues of the ancient world through a modern, secularized and politicized lens. I'd like to believe this was an issue of your ignorance of church history. But your 'socialist' identification would suggest this was a wilful misreading of church history from a bad faith actor looking to make the ancient and theological subservient to the modern and political 🙄🤦♂️ Tell me I'm wrong...
I never said that's where the origin came from. I didn't say anything about the origins of any position in this short video. I said that I believe it became the mainstream position (especially in an American context, which I failed to add) because it was used so much to justify colonization. I was talking about the suppression of theological positions that a lot of people are unaware of, and sharing my perspective on it. So yeah. You're wrong. Peace.
@@DamonGarcia "I believe the eternal torture stream became the norm because of colonization" - your literal words in this video. No hint anywhere in that statement of 'using eternal damnation to justify colonization'. Your backtracking here is embarrassing. The fact you moved from an eastern universalism (as if that was the norm view of hell for 2 thousand years) and then *immediately tried to attribute the rejection of that view to colonization (conveniently missing out 1000yrs of church history) is wrong and very dubious* . You also literally stated that the eternal torture stream "became the norm BECAUSE of colonization", not as a means to JUSTIFY it. The statement is also just objectively incorrect. The 'eternal torture stream' had been the norm for much of Christendom for almost a millennia before American colonization. Even prior to the great schism not all eastern Christians were universalists. Saint Basil also *did not* say that "the majority of Christians in his time believed in universalism", as you deceptively state in this video. So yeah. You're wrong on both counts. You were caught out. Be honest and admit it.
@@Joeonline26 The origins of hell come from Greek mythology. But the Mexican guy in the video is correct in the sense that it was certainly used as a tool to control people. Ironically, the Mexican guy in the video was raised as a Catholic and subscribed to the doctrine of hell for years.
@@DamonGarcia The origins of hell come from Greek mythology. But the Mexican guy in the video is correct in the sense that it was certainly used as a tool to control people. Ironically, the Mexican guy in the video was raised as a Catholic and subscribed to the doctrine of hell for years.
that would only be true if the only motivation for anyone to do good was to get into heaven. like, even most christian dogma doesn't accept that you can be saved through your own works.
People are good people because they have sympathy not because they are afraid of going to hell, I don’t believe in god but I don’t plan on being a bad person
@@The_Working_Class_Catholic I do the right thing because I was raised that way 💀 even if I wasn’t Christian I would still give what I have to help people who need it
Scripture says Christ’s conquering of death was to save everyone. Their are no addendum to that statement. God saves everyone and that mean whether they choose to or not. What is the point of the church then? Read the beatitudes. Our purpose is to perpetrate and enact the good news. That good news does not stop with Gods saving grace-there is so much more to the gospel!
@@sciencesociety2919 According to scripture hell is first referenced in the book of Isaiah. Isaiah 66:24 And they shall go forth and look upon the carcasses of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be abhorring unto all flesh. So we know it will be eternal fire, then we need to know if it is eternal. Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. So we know that it's possible to destroy both soul and body in hell, so it's possible it could be eternal but in certain circumstances it could be annihilation.
@@sojourner4726 This is just not so Matthew 7:21-23 Not everyone that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? And in thy name have we not cast out devils? And in thy name have we not done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. This makes it clear not everyone will be saved.
Ignoring the fact that what/where/when is "The Kingdom of God" used in this phrase, I'm missing the part where it says you will "burn" and be tortured "forever." Jesus' time on earth and the sacrifice would not be so profound and unique if it were still arbitrary and conditional with zero chance of redemption. Damon isn't saying don't worry and do whatever you want it's all good you still get into "Heaven." For people who claim to believe that God created all things including the colors of the rainbow, some of us still have difficulty with nuance and seeing anything except in black and white.
Well, hell sells. But your very own Jesus says (Matt 25:46) And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. So y'all need to get your story straight. But then--you're the bunch who can't even decide if your premier sacrament is dip, dribble, dunk, or dry clean so I'm not holding out any hope.
The true message of Christ will always be opposed by those in power. Radical love is fundamentally at odds with the preservation of the status quo.
how do you know its true (you dont) and radical love would be justice not eternal tourture for conciously stealing and then not beliving due to bad evidence and reasons being rejected
Of course they oppose it, how else would they scare us into submission? Look at some of the politicians these days. If you just listen to what some of them say logically you will be hard pressed not to facepalm and wonder why nearly everyone else fell for the lies. They have been brainwashed. It is similar to how we have been brainwashed into thinking that Hell would be eternal torture. There are various ways the Greek Bible has been mistranslated and by the time that translation makes its way to English the meanings of some words may have gotten twisted. Is it because Greek is a difficult language for people who speak English to read? Maybe. I also feel that the mistranslations were deliberate as a way to scare us. How hard would it be to change a word here and there and have something with a completely different effect? Not really that difficult with enough time to proof read it and fix grammar and spelling errors so it sounds more convincing..
My observation is many Christian’s will believe in hell before God’s mercy. And to me that makes hell the focus of worship and not God.
Think of it this way before you believe and seek forgiveness of sin one must believe in a consequence of that error.
who is seeking redemption: the person who seeks to avoid punishment or the person who sees an error and turns from it out of love for God and neighbor?
The true answer is both shall be saved. The first with compassion and the last with love. Its is inconsistent with what we know of God to believe in eternal damnation.
it just doesn't make sense. a loving being such as Jesus wouldn't want his creations to suffer without end.
And do you know why it Dosen't seems like something that jesus would do because he never actually said he would Christians just made it up let me Show you what the Bible Actually teaches about eternal life and Hell
danm imagine this imagine if I was to give you a Gift and you say to me no thanks I decline your gift and Because you declined my gift I torture you wow what a terrible god we Christians serve right? That would all be true if that was actually what jesus teached in the Bible about hell pls what you Christians have been teaching is just simply not true God is not punishing you in Burning Flames for All Eternity there is not one bible verse not even one that indicates that let me tell you what God will actually do and im gonna prove it with bible scriptures see what is gonna happen is that those who followed jesus will simply live forever and those who died in their sin are simply going to die and the Punishment when they get thrown into the Lake of fire is Eternal Death that's why it says that's the second Death in Revelation 21:8 it does not says eternal torment also think about this if the Eternal life is a Gift of God then Eternal torture does not even make sense because in order for you to burn forever you have to be imortal which only the redeemed people in Christ will be Romans 6:23 for the Wages of sin is DEATH notice how God never say is eternal torture yet for some reason that is what Christians say God is gonna do let me end the verse For the wages of sin is death but the Free Gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our lord so now think about this if Sinners were to live forever even if its in Torment what exactly is the Gift of God? It Dosen't say its heaven it clearly says eternal Life you cannot be eternal without God so some Christians saying that Sinners are gonna burn forever is just not true cause that would mean that sinners also have eternal life also let me give you the ultimate prove to Show you that people simply just lie and God dosen't let sinners burn forever Jesus Died for our sins notice how he never got tortured for our sins for All eternity but he died and do you know why Because God dosen't get any pleasure out of us suffering for All Eternity that will never satisfy his Wrath and anger towards sin that's why sinners will have to die in order for Gods anger towards sin to end Because if sinners Were to sin for All eternity in Hell against God ,God would be angry for All eternity also Revelation 21 1:4 says All the Former things will pass there will be no more pain now think about this firstly the verse wouldn't even make sense if sinners Were to still burn and continue sinning in Hell then the Statement that all former things will pass would be false secondly if God says there will be no more pain do you think there is going to be a Torture Chamber for sinners?? Is simply not true what will happen is you will be thrown in to the lake of fire yes but its not forever what will be forever is the Punishment you will die forever you are not more going to be existent and is only fair Because God gave you this life we was not existing in the beginning or even 100 years ago god offered us a Gift that we can either accept or reject and the result of not accepting god is that life is taken back Because ultimatly God gave it to you God dosen't have any reason to torture you forever for a life you did not wanted God is so mercyfull and loving and the Fact that Christians think that that's what God is going to do Roast sinners forever is just so funny to me and Ending this whit if we humans Were really imortal and our soul to what was the point of the Three of Life? And why did God prevent Adam and Eve to eat from the Three of life if they are imortal anyways also in Genesis 3:4 this is what the Devil Told Eve when he tempted her to eat from the forbidden Fruit You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman.its seems like the biggest lie of the Devil was that we humans are Gods and are certainly imortal and that we can never die even if we get tortured for All eternity I mean we still don't die don't we it seems like Troughout the Bible it was only Life or Dead there is no such thing as eternal Torture is either life or Dead and the lie that many belive is that we are imortal that Is what the Devil wants us to think we are going to be gone forever Because even if you were to b•urn in hell forever God would still be there he's omnipresent
I don’t think your theory is correct but neither is eternal torment. The wages of sin is death. Also do not fear man that can destroy the body but fear God who can destroy both body and soul in hell. Your choices matter. Christ is King.
Well, it originated with St. Augustine in his translation of the Greek word "Aionis" which means "age enduring" but he insisted it meant "Eternal" i.e. "Eternal Torment" This was under the rule of Constantine. And was used to instill fear into the Europeans during the dark ages, far before Colonization (or at least the Colonization outside of Europe) But yes, it was the minority view for the first 500 years of the Church.
That is all it is, a simple twisting of the translation. The only true Bible there ever was is the original texts which are in Greek. Unfortunately I do not know how to read Greek.
God BLESS YOU!! Your heart is good and we know our God does not torture flawed humans for eternity. Eternal life in hell? People dont grasp what this actually means.
When you believe in a god, that doesn’t want all people to flourish, you have no motivation to want to see all people flourishing. What’s worse, is that when you believe that “God” doesn’t love all people, you are able to defend your own prejudice. I know I am preaching to the choir here, but it has taken me many years to have the courage to write such a comment. I am still working through a lot of legalistic thinking. Good livestream with Tim today, man!
So true! I was just reading Keith Giles’s book, Jesus undefeated: Condemning the false doctrine of eternal torment
I stopped believing in "the word of god" once i discovered that its no more than the work of man
ruclips.net/video/wzeW8G989XA/видео.html
Are you trying to suggest that man-made, man-written, man-compiled, man-edited words of men who claimed invisible voices spoke to them, and which reflect the values, attitudes, knowledge, and myths of the time they were written, are not the words of a god? How did you come to that conclusion?
Isaac Newton believed the Bible. He even spent decades calculating when Jesus Christ would return. In the end Newton settled on the year 2060.
The work of man.
How did you come to that conclusion because to say that shows that you don't know anything about God or the Bible.
The Bible has Godly wisdom that no man on Earth could come up with on his own so your stance on thinking the Bible is the work of man is rather stupid and has no foundation for truth.
People will believe any and everything except God and His word.
@@dumbcat the bible is full of scientific facts, for example yesterday i saw that there is one verse in the bible that says Air has weight, which is a fact today
Thank you! I think it goes even deeper than colonization, but to the very Calvinist foundations of Liberal ideology. If we accept that those who are not blessed are not chosen, then we can pity them, but we can do little to help them.
Calvinist ideology easily goes down both sides of the political isle.
But yes, very few people realize how influential Calvinist ideology was in the formation of American religion. (Puritans, the Great Awakenings…etc)
but you dont know eho is and who is not xhoosen thats why xou need to love and presch to everyone
Wow! I love your soul brother!
If suffering in hell can purify sinners , then there was no need for Jesus to bleed , die on the cross and to live again.
Incorrect. This man is not inventing this view. This would not have been the majority view in the earliest church closest to Jesus time if it were so easily debunked by your statement. Don’t you think before you speak? Do you think you’re that brilliant? lol it is only through Jesus that restoration is possible. God in Christ restoring the cosmos to Himself. 1 Corinthians. Before Jesus we were all dead in our sins. Death is the sting of sin. But because of Jesus, death is now swallowed up in victory. Death was the fate of sin, not eternal torture in hell. With the resurrection comes restoration. The Father restored us into a purified state through the fire. The word picture of Proverbs 17:3, Isaiah 48:10… in fact, why do you think brimstone/sulfur is added to the fire? Refining through sulfurization.
If God's wrath was poured out on to Jesus in our place then why would it be poured out on us still?
@@carlosfurones0117Christus Victor! Amen
Jesus paid the ransom to sin and satan with himself only it was more than that because this defeated death which is the wage of sin.
The Kingdom of God is within you, and You are the Temple of God.
My vision is we can change this hole world one act of love at a time.
In the long run, love will win.
God is patient..... but ❤ is stronger, in the long run we will ALL be saved by Gods love. Why?
Becouse ❤️ IS stronger.
God is the strongest force in the hole universe.
Sounds very similar to Jewish mythology (atheist Jewboi here)
Early Christians essentially believed in Mormon doctrine. Three degrees of glory in the afterlife. People who are wicked, murderers, receive the lowest degree of glory. Essentially where the lowlifes go after their redemption. Gang members, murderers, dictators, etc. Honorable go to the middle kingdom. The righteous receive a fullness. Read Papias, Ireneaus, Origen, and John Chysostom. Its also taught by Paul in the new testament. And Jesus himself said "the dead that believe on the son of man will be given mercy" essentially, meaning ALL of the dead. Obviously eternal hell makes God a monster worse than Hitler. The idea is repugnant. If that is true I am with you. There is no God. But the entire message of Christianity was supposed to be about deification. God partaking of the suffering of man in its fullness, so that he might fully share his attributes and glory in its fullness. The giving of godhood. The way I look at this is its impossible to have a change in someones life unless you are willing to share in their life. Can you have a relationship with a woman without sharing in her life? In her struggles, and even internalizing that. NO! So why should God be able to effect change unless he is willing to share in a persons life? I look at in relational terms. The degree of salvation is equal to the degree of a relationship you are able to have with God. I am sure none of this matters to you since you are an atheist but explaining my perspective. Also early Christianity should be closer to Judaism for obvious reasons.
"Imagine a world where..."
That's the issue. It doesn't matter what you imagine or believe but what scriptures itself say on the topic.
That’s the issue. So why do you imagine such a place of unbiblical torture? You get offended but you don’t get educated.
That's the issue. Scripture got often edited. For example name is Yahaveh not God: Godriel = Satan. And yet we should not question? There is no love in it.. I start to think God is the Demiurge.. extremely inteligent but not really for our own good. There is nothing good in eternal torture. Even if I get "saved" I can never stand besides God and accept that as righteous punishment. No matter how wicked I've been I would never In my life even consider ever doing that to someone. People can change.
You obviously believe our modern bibles are inerrant. You'd be mistaken though
@zalmoxe6842 It's greek mythology influence. Aionios does not translate to eternal or forever yet our modern bibles say it does. The spirit is put through a purification which will only be age abiding at most. Jesus is the reason through God's plan that any purification can now take place.
Torture was bastardized from the word touchstone. The word we got for forever or eternal was more along the lines of æon. age. Eon. The smoke of their touchstone will rise up In the age of ages. A touchstone as you know is used to test for impurities. For he sits like a refiner. Well now , the verse of in the presence of God and his angels. That's the one that resonates with me. For it contradicts eternal separation from God. For we are in his presence when he purifies us. Furthermore brimstone is sulphur used to remove impurities, much like in blacksmithing. The lake of fire is not a lake at all but a pool of fire, the refiner's crucible. That is his plan. To purify even the devil himself. He is the Creator. The OG. Of course Dude has a crucible in which he can create, and refine. That's where it all started. He's not going to look his creation, his children in the eye, and say you're broken and beyond repair. Into the fire you go.. No. He would say my child you are broken I have the tools for the job. He wouldn't toss us into the fire without reason, or out of spite. For God Is Love. He puts us in the fire to purify even the most wicked. God creates for a purpose, he does not make mistakes. Once we are created, we exist . Period. He saw that it was good! We live forever. That's how it ends. God giveth Life. Amen
Could you please link evidence for this. Especially regarding touchstone, I'd love you to be correct. I just want it to be rooted in God's word.
All i have to say is,
Amen Lord God and Lord Jesus ❤
Nah man that’s not how it works
The myths of Gehenna and Hades were developed before Christ came. 1 Enoch describes fire, cries of pain, and darkness. Jews adapted the sleep of Sheol and added all sorts of Greek ideas into it.
Hell is Eternal 🔥 Save our Souls Jesus ✝️🙏🏼🕊️
Malachi 4:3
Your a goddamn psychopath if you think hell is just because it’s not
Protestants are lying to you, because non demoninatial today
Great video!!
OH, *PLEASE* BE TRUE!
They basically believed what Joseph Smith taught and why the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is accused of being a cult. They believed in three degrees of glory, those in the lowest glory are the wicked. Read Papias. This was preserved by Ireneaus, and origen and John Chrysostom believed the same. They did not believe in universal salvation in the sense that everyone will receive the same reward, but universal salvation in the sense that some receive a partial salvation, and some receive a fullness. I believe this changed with Augustine. Three degrees of glory was the predominant view in early Christianity. The idea of eternal hell makes God a monster worse than Hitler. But in the true understanding of things, even Hitler as bad as he is can find a measure of redemption.
I got away from Christianity bc the dont mirror Jesus really but this version I can give some value to
Too good to be true imo.
Hell is too bad to be true!
look where we are now and without God u think its a better place?
The Bible does say we must love everyone and eternal torment is in the Bible😢
It is not. That is a twisting of scripture. Read paul with 1st corinthians 15, and early Christians did not believe in eternal hell. Papias, ireneaus, origen, etc. But I am sure a Christian living 2000 years after the fact knows more than people living then, based off a few verses stripped from their historic context.
Ummm no eternal torment is not even in the Bible... yes hell is actually not eternal and im happy that alot of people have finally came to the truth The OPPOSIT Of Eternal Life is Eternal Death That is the Eternal punishment its eternal Death the result of the fire is eternal and the Punishment of your DEATH is FOREVER not eternal torture is literally that simple to understand also just the fact that Christian say hell is seperation from God for All eternity well that's not true either psalms 139:8 Says this If I go up to the heavens, you are there; if I make my bed in the depths, you are there. 9 If I rise on the wings of the dawn, if I settle on the far side of the sea, 10 even there your hand will guide me, your right hand God is clearly omnipresent so the Idea that he wouldn't be in Hell is false that's Why Revelation 14:10 says this 10 he also will drink wthe wine of God's wrath poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and yhe will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. Notice how Gods presence is still in Hell so the Idea that hell is eternal torture that is seperated from God is Satanic Doctrine God is Omnipresent and is therefore everywhere the biggest lie of the Devil was to deceive people into thinking that we are imortal is just simply not true and again if the Punishment of sin is eternal torture jesus Death dosen't make sense because jesus took our sin And therefore took the Punishment that we deserved on himself what was the PUNISHMENT? It was Death again DEATH Not eternal Torture and why did Jesus Rose again because that is what we believers are gonna experience we are going to rise again and live forever that is the Gift of God the Gift of God is living because if sinners also get to live forever even if its a miserable life that means they also have eternal life and they still would somehow be in Gods presence Rev 14:10 comfirms that Gods present is in hell ....see how the Idea of eternal torture just fails in every aspect in oder to be seperated from God for All eternity you have to be non existent that's why eternal torture does not work not only that if sinners Were to burn forever without dying just think about this its kinda an act of Grace because Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego were in fire and were not consumed by it that's why God says to the wicked But the wicked will perish psalms 37:20 Though the LORD’s enemies are like the flowers of the field, they will be consumed, they will go up in smoke. they will be Gone annihilationism is definitely the truth on what God is planing on doing God even is so loving for some Christians to even think he's gonna Roast sinners forever is Just WOW
Only because of detrimental mistranslations. Properly translated texts do not include any eternal punishment
@kennethyoung7564 5 of the 6 early schools of Christianity believed in Christian universalism or ultimate reconciliation well in to the 6th century AD
Augustine and Turtulian definitely believed in eternal punishment. Long before the era of colonialism. The justice of it also depends on if people are able to take responsibility for their misdeeds without blaming others or circumstances. A parol officer that let out a criminal that did not take responsibility for his actions or showed little remorse for them would be an unjust officer. There are a lot of people out there that will never admit they were wrong no matter what you say or do to them.
Yea, and they translated horribly in the vulgate and created serious misunderstandings and false impressions of God
Facts.
This doctrine ultimately ruined everything for a while for me
See the Torah says hell is not eternal so why would it something like that chance
Eternal torment is 💯 pagan.
John the Baptist called Jesus the Savior of the world. John said he is the propitiation for our sins and not ours only but the whole world. Luke states all flesh shall see God's salvation. Paul said God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. Which of these verses should i jettison in order to buy into the doctrine of eternal damnation?
Yes but with that why people act good or bad what is going to stop someone from selling or killing someone if hell isn't real
This always puzzles me when someone asks this. Are you revealing something disturbing of yourself here? What is it you want to do but don't because of "hell"? It seems some people need that guard rail to keep them in check. Many atheists out there and they don't go around murdering and raping people and that's without a belief in "hell". You may want to evaluate and get some therapy about your impulses you are resisting only out of fear of "hell".
You lost me at colonialism. Not everything is the fault of colonialism...
Over 1,000 years passed between Basil of Caesarea and the start of anything we would consider colonialism by Christian peoples. Not the least of which was the rise and influence of Augutine of Hippo.
Also, since most Christians have believed in eternal conscious hell, including the many who have done many great, even wordl-changing things, it's hard to justify the claim that the reason the world isn't a egalitarian utopia is the fact that univeralsim isn't more popular among Christians.
Sorry but there's no defyn their fates because hell is forever whether you like it or not had their chance to behave better now the boil in the pot
I was looking for this comment lmao
@@charlespipins2498 lol
Well that would be pretty horrible if it was actually true...😬 let me tell you what the Bible actually teaches about hell
danm imagine this imagine if I was to give you a Gift and you say to me no thanks I decline your gift and Because you declined my gift I torture you wow what a terrible god we Christians serve right? That would all be true if that was actually what jesus teached in the Bible about hell pls what you Christians have been teaching is just simply not true God is not punishing you in Burning Flames for All Eternity there is not one bible verse not even one that indicates that let me tell you what God will actually do and im gonna prove it with bible scriptures see what is gonna happen is that those who followed jesus will simply live forever and those who died in their sin are simply going to die and the Punishment when they get thrown into the Lake of fire is Eternal Death that's why it says that's the second Death in Revelation 21:8 it does not says eternal torment also think about this if the Eternal life is a Gift of God then Eternal torture does not even make sense because in order for you to burn forever you have to be imortal which only the redeemed people in Christ will be Romans 6:23 for the Wages of sin is DEATH notice how God never say is eternal torture yet for some reason that is what Christians say God is gonna do let me end the verse For the wages of sin is death but the Free Gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our lord so now think about this if Sinners were to live forever even if its in Torment what exactly is the Gift of God? It Dosen't say its heaven it clearly says eternal Life you cannot be eternal without God so some Christians saying that Sinners are gonna burn forever is just not true cause that would mean that sinners also have eternal life also let me give you the ultimate prove to Show you that people simply just lie and God dosen't let sinners burn forever Jesus Died for our sins notice how he never got tortured for our sins for All eternity but he died and do you know why Because God dosen't get any pleasure out of us suffering for All Eternity that will never satisfy his Wrath and anger towards sin that's why sinners will have to die in order for Gods anger towards sin to end Because if sinners Were to sin for All eternity in Hell against God ,God would be angry for All eternity also Revelation 21 1:4 says All the Former things will pass there will be no more pain now think about this firstly the verse wouldn't even make sense if sinners Were to still burn and continue sinning in Hell then the Statement that all former things will pass would be false secondly if God says there will be no more pain do you think there is going to be a Torture Chamber for sinners?? Is simply not true what will happen is you will be thrown in to the lake of fire yes but its not forever what will be forever is the Punishment you will die forever you are not more going to be existent and is only fair Because God gave you this life we was not existing in the beginning or even 100 years ago god offered us a Gift that we can either accept or reject and the result of not accepting god is that life is taken back Because ultimatly God gave it to you God dosen't have any reason to torture you forever for a life you did not wanted God is so mercyfull and loving and the Fact that Christians think that that's what God is going to do Roast sinners forever is just so funny to me and Ending this whit if we humans Were really imortal and our soul to what was the point of the Three of Life? And why did God prevent Adam and Eve to eat from the Three of life if they are imortal anyways also in Genesis 3:4 this is what the Devil Told Eve when he tempted her to eat from the forbidden Fruit You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman.its seems like the biggest lie of the Devil was that we humans are Gods and are certainly imortal and that we can never die even if we get tortured for All eternity I mean we still don't die don't we it seems like Troughout the Bible it was only Life or Dead there is no such thing as eternal Torture is either life or Dead and the lie that many belive is that we are imortal that Is what the Devil wants us to think we are going to be gone forever Because even if you were to b•urn in hell forever God would still be there he's omnipresent
@@kittiesandbotsgemini9892umm your wrong tho yes hell is actually not eternal and im happy that alot of people have finally came to the truth The OPPOSIT Of Eternal Life is Eternal Death That is the Eternal punishment its eternal Death the result of the fire is eternal and the Punishment of your DEATH is FOREVER not eternal torture is literally that simple to understand also just the fact that Christian say hell is seperation from God for All eternity well that's not true either psalms 139:8 Says this If I go up to the heavens, you are there; if I make my bed in the depths, you are there. 9 If I rise on the wings of the dawn, if I settle on the far side of the sea, 10 even there your hand will guide me, your right hand God is clearly omnipresent so the Idea that he wouldn't be in Hell is false that's Why Revelation 14:10 says this 10 he also will drink wthe wine of God's wrath poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and yhe will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. Notice how Gods presence is still in Hell so the Idea that hell is eternal torture that is seperated from God is Satanic Doctrine God is Omnipresent and is therefore everywhere the biggest lie of the Devil was to deceive people into thinking that we are imortal is just simply not true and again if the Punishment of sin is eternal torture jesus Death dosen't make sense because jesus took our sin And therefore took the Punishment that we deserved on himself what was the PUNISHMENT? It was Death again DEATH Not eternal Torture and why did Jesus Rose again because that is what we believers are gonna experience we are going to rise again and live forever that is the Gift of God the Gift of God is living because if sinners also get to live forever even if its a miserable life that means they also have eternal life and they still would somehow be in Gods presence Rev 14:10 comfirms that Gods present is in hell ....see how the Idea of eternal torture just fails in every aspect in oder to be seperated from God for All eternity you have to be non existent that's why eternal torture does not work not only that if sinners Were to burn forever without dying just think about this its kinda an act of Grace because Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego were in fire and were not consumed by it that's why God says to the wicked But the wicked will perish psalms 37:20 Though the LORD’s enemies are like the flowers of the field, they will be consumed, they will go up in smoke. they will be Gone annihilationism is definitely the truth on what God is planing on doing God even is so loving for some Christians to even think he's gonna Roast sinners forever is Just WOW
nice
I don't believe in eternal conscious torment, but universal salvation is equally unbiblical, just like how Sunday worship is equally unbiblical, and that's been going on for over 1000 years. Choose life, not sin and death, it's made very clear especially in revelation that two groups will be made separate, one is the believers, and the others who did not truly believe, who are destroyed.
That being said I do think that those who have not even heard the gospel but have lived their life according to the law overall, have a chance at forgiveness.
@@anonymousdontbotheraboutit2895such as
As one of jehovahs witnesses we believe that we will live in a perfect world where death Pain and suffering will be no more
no worries mate,, by your logic I should probably go back to smoking meth. Heroine fetinol xanax and literally just every single other drug I spent 20 years realizing how much it would kill me and kept going back.
One day god did respond and restored my body mind and heat over 2 weeks! Sober now praising his glory his name! I’m here watching this thinking about myself hearing you message “you are just perfect spending 6 figs a year while away on flights and high profile events and vain ambition mixed with drugs to the 10th power and no grace joh or personal power of peace…. I’d summarize Jesus must like me like this!! Sweet.. no sir edification of your soul searching and your personal choices change as soon as God comes in. Good has no plans to glorify anyone in sin, because he’s busy saving up the real men pulling up and Out of darkness spiritually
@@kyleham1916 If I can understand his point and your point correctly and conclude it in this sense, he's talking about the after life, after judgement day (Pure assumption, I don't know whether judgement day exists for jews) so in that sense you shouldn't go back to everything you used to do, but if the Original Poster agrees with the youtube short creators comment on eternal damnation, then I must understand it in a sense that his religion has the same perspective. That we will all be saved, this means that you can go back to doing what you used to do since your eventually gonna be saved anyway 🤷♂️
@@kyleham1916i just got clean last 2 years from meth and Cocaine and just last month stopped smoking cigarettes and alcohol i only drink maybe one or 2 shots once every 7 or 8 months excluding the wine at church yea we use actual wine and kids are not eligible too be baptized and receive communion until baptism and they must complete classes before baptism so they do not take a false pledge too god that way they fully understand what they are doing who they worship and love and fear and who too follow and not the ways of the world and too love everyone even your enemies. Our church thinks kids should be at the age of accountability and actually understand there are consequences for sin and not repenting and turning away from the sin.
Only the ones that accept Jesus wont go to hell.
Well, here's the Good News. Every knee will bow and and tongue confess. It is stated in four different text that all (literally every single person) will make this confession.
No love does not change the world. The world has many forms of love. The love of self the love of money loving your children more than God.
Your message is seducing, because it comes from the carnal mind.
I don't know about that, Jesus summed up all of the Law and the Prophets with two commandments to love. He also said that loving one another is how everyone will know we are his disciples. Seems like he thought love was of primary importance.
@@Kira_Martel And yet he was crucified.
@@johndavid3474 Yes…? Do you feel that means he did not change the world? Cause here we are talking about him 2,000 years later… Seems like the kind of love Jesus talked about had so much power to change the world that the Roman state and Jewish church leaders felt he was a dangerous person and had him executed.
@@Kira_Martel What no one ever told you is to be a disciple of Christ means forsaking this world, why?
Because the god of this world is Satan.
If you believe LOVE will change the world then you are giving heed to seducing spirits.
Ypu're right about Saint Basil and universalism. You're sincerely WRONG about the origins of eternal punishment. It's origins have nothing to do with 'colonisation'. You need to go much deeper and further back. I'm talking Clement of Rome (35-101 AD), Justin Martyr 100-165 AD), Hippolytus of Rome (170-235 AD) etc. Then read their influence on the medieval scholastics who further developed the doctrine of eternal damnation. The concept of eternal damnation was then carried into modernity through the protestant reformation (Luther, Calvin etc). Come on dude, the whole 'muhh colonisation bruh' answer was really superficial and disappointing here🙄🤦♂️ This is what happens when you try and interpret theological issues of the ancient world through a modern, secularized and politicized lens. I'd like to believe this was an issue of your ignorance of church history. But your 'socialist' identification would suggest this was a wilful misreading of church history from a bad faith actor looking to make the ancient and theological subservient to the modern and political 🙄🤦♂️ Tell me I'm wrong...
I never said that's where the origin came from. I didn't say anything about the origins of any position in this short video. I said that I believe it became the mainstream position (especially in an American context, which I failed to add) because it was used so much to justify colonization. I was talking about the suppression of theological positions that a lot of people are unaware of, and sharing my perspective on it. So yeah. You're wrong. Peace.
@@DamonGarcia "I believe the eternal torture stream became the norm because of colonization" - your literal words in this video. No hint anywhere in that statement of 'using eternal damnation to justify colonization'. Your backtracking here is embarrassing. The fact you moved from an eastern universalism (as if that was the norm view of hell for 2 thousand years) and then *immediately tried to attribute the rejection of that view to colonization (conveniently missing out 1000yrs of church history) is wrong and very dubious* . You also literally stated that the eternal torture stream "became the norm BECAUSE of colonization", not as a means to JUSTIFY it. The statement is also just objectively incorrect. The 'eternal torture stream' had been the norm for much of Christendom for almost a millennia before American colonization. Even prior to the great schism not all eastern Christians were universalists. Saint Basil also *did not* say that "the majority of Christians in his time believed in universalism", as you deceptively state in this video. So yeah. You're wrong on both counts. You were caught out. Be honest and admit it.
@@Joeonline26
The origins of hell come from Greek mythology.
But the Mexican guy in the video is correct in the sense that it was certainly used as a tool to control people.
Ironically, the Mexican guy in the video was raised as a Catholic and subscribed to the doctrine of hell for years.
@@DamonGarcia
The origins of hell come from Greek mythology.
But the Mexican guy in the video is correct in the sense that it was certainly used as a tool to control people.
Ironically, the Mexican guy in the video was raised as a Catholic and subscribed to the doctrine of hell for years.
@@Joeonline26malachi 4:3
Bro, if everyone was gonna be saved the entire world would be way worse.
...What? Why?
that would only be true if the only motivation for anyone to do good was to get into heaven. like, even most christian dogma doesn't accept that you can be saved through your own works.
People are good people because they have sympathy not because they are afraid of going to hell, I don’t believe in god but I don’t plan on being a bad person
@@The_Working_Class_Catholic I do the right thing because I was raised that way 💀 even if I wasn’t Christian I would still give what I have to help people who need it
@@TheAmityElf idk what I was even trying to say when I made this 💀
The point should not be what certain people believe, but what the Bible says. The Bible is the word of God and not the traditions of man.
And what do you believe the Bible says on this matter
Scripture says Christ’s conquering of death was to save everyone. Their are no addendum to that statement. God saves everyone and that mean whether they choose to or not.
What is the point of the church then? Read the beatitudes. Our purpose is to perpetrate and enact the good news. That good news does not stop with Gods saving grace-there is so much more to the gospel!
@@sciencesociety2919 According to scripture hell is first referenced in the book of Isaiah.
Isaiah 66:24 And they shall go forth and look upon the carcasses of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be abhorring unto all flesh.
So we know it will be eternal fire, then we need to know if it is eternal.
Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
So we know that it's possible to destroy both soul and body in hell, so it's possible it could be eternal but in certain circumstances it could be annihilation.
@@sojourner4726 This is just not so
Matthew 7:21-23 Not everyone that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? And in thy name have we not cast out devils? And in thy name have we not done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
This makes it clear not everyone will be saved.
Ignoring the fact that what/where/when is "The Kingdom of God" used in this phrase, I'm missing the part where it says you will "burn" and be tortured "forever." Jesus' time on earth and the sacrifice would not be so profound and unique if it were still arbitrary and conditional with zero chance of redemption. Damon isn't saying don't worry and do whatever you want it's all good you still get into "Heaven." For people who claim to believe that God created all things including the colors of the rainbow, some of us still have difficulty with nuance and seeing anything except in black and white.
Well, hell sells. But your very own Jesus says (Matt 25:46) And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. So y'all need to get your story straight. But then--you're the bunch who can't even decide if your premier sacrament is dip, dribble, dunk, or dry clean so I'm not holding out any hope.
Jesus was likely an annihilationist. Not a universalist, but still a far cry from a damnationist.
Yes, it would.
God's punishment is hell, it's where he punishes the spirits, just how a teacher has a detention room to punish misbehaving child. 🏔️
Wow