I don't know if any of y'all remember Dragonball Z. But Lebron is literally Hercule from DBZ. Seeks adoration from fans by lying, manipulating, and coniving.
I’ve said that since he came into the league him playing basketball was a business decision and a good decision for him and his family but he’s an overrated player.
If everyone wanted to be like Mike (The GOAT), and Kobe was the only one to successfully get the closest, then how is LeBron better than Kobe? He’s not. MJ Kareem Kobe Everyone else (LeBron is not top 10)
Mel, you know your stuff sir....best sports talk on youtube hands down (or should i say, Man Down)... logic, reason, and facts to back up everything...i love the debates!
People who put Kobe or Lebron above Jordan still dont understand what type of athelete, basketball player, competitor, student of the game and winner Jordan was.
@avandocartwright5616 magic is my favorite player.. the problem with a lot of Jordan fans, is when someone points out certain aspects of the game that other players excelled at better than Jordan, they get defensive and take it as they're saying the player is better than Jordan. Breaking news Jordan is not the greatest at every aspect of the game. He is arguably the greatest individual player to ever play the game, but the game is not a individual sport and their are more aspects of the game that are more valuable to winning than being a unstoppable force that can score at will. Intangibles are more valuable to winning than any individual stat line. Jordan's 63pts vs Boston should tell you that, his 37ppg average in 86 should tell you that. Phil Jackson said it best. Pippen was more valuable to the TEAMS SUCCESS THAN JORDAN WAS. He said nobody can score the ball like Jordan but scoring isn't the end all be all, pippen was our leader, he directed our offense and he got the best out of his teammates. He took on all the big challenges for us.. if Jordan had to guard the best player on the opposing team every single night he wouldn't have the energy to be the type of scorer that he was. Not saying he wasn't a great defender because he was without a doubt. But he didn't play lock down defense on the opposing teams best wing player for 48 minutes
@toddjones2245 pippen was not more valuable than mj, you said a bunch of jibberish, mj was a better offense and defensive player than pippen, pippen was a great role player tho, and yes mj needed pippen, but nobody wins by himself, but pippen has said numerous times mj made him the player we all know and love
@bobbymoore2076 so you're saying Phil Jackson doesn't know what made his team great? This is why I don't take most of yall super fans seriously. Once you think you know more than the actual coach who knows what made his team great, you automatically lose all credibility.
Heres a hot take for yall, lebrons not even better then duncan. Duncan has 2, back to back ncaa chips, won a championship in his second year in the league (only ever done by magic), never won less then 50 games and never missed the playoffs once in his career (in the stacked west filled with kobes lakers and nashes suns), has 5 chips in the nba and a 12-5 record on lebron. And came a lucky ray allen three away from a 6th.
Gotta correct you on some facts about Duncan. He never won a Championship in college. Magic won a championship his rookie season, Bird won in his second season. Both were rookies 79-80 seasons ~ Magic won in 80’ Bird in 81’. I’ve been a supporter of the Spurs since 78’ back to the Ice Man George Gervin days. Watched Duncan a ton in college, live (I was a Maryland fan | traveled down to college park dozens of times to watch the great college players. I also watched Duncan destroy Antonio McDyess in a tournament game at the Baltimore arena.. Everything else you spoke was true about Duncan. Just issuing the facts.
@mobrown1198 my friend, use google he won 2 back to back ACC (american college championships) and i said he won in his second year and referenced magic because he was the only guy who did it as early as him (didnt know bird won that early, so thanks for pointing that out).
Starbury is absolutely right. Fundamentally Kobe is a better BASKETBALL PLAYER than LeQueen and it’s based on the fact that Kobe could let other players handle the ball and run the offense while Kobe played off ball and could run off screens and cut. LeQueen can not do any of those things consistently. And the people who say you can’t judge a player with the eye test can’t break down a basketball play or sequence of plays to save their lives so they are compensating for their lack of basketball knowledge by trying to discredit the eye test and the wealth of knowledge you can gain just by STUDYING FILM!!!!
Isaiah Thomas tried to bench Marbury in NY. But Marbury said "I know some stuff on you. I'm playing." And he played. Waiting for the Marbury biography to hear about what he "knew" about IT.
Also, how are some people so delusional? Man said that there is nothing that Kobe did better than Lebron, then went on to quote stats. Kobe led the Lakers and led the Olympics squad. Guillermo is on something for sure.
Someone said that the eye test is stupid, speaking about a game that is played based on vision. Players have to rely on what they see to play and are judged based on how they perform in situations that are seen by players and fans alike. The eye test is important because it provides context to players and games in ways that stats cannot. For example, we know Rodman's stats but without seeing him play or hearing from people who did, you would not be able to grasp his true impact.
To the caller that said that Wade was on the way down when Lebron joined the Heat, do remember that, in 2011, Wade outplayed Lebron. It is important to speak sensibly when you open your mouth to speak. These people tend to be all in their feelings. Didn't Wade berate Lebron for how badly he was performing?
Bruh, it's super hard to jabe a conversation like that because you gotta correct them on everything they say or just let it go while they build a case on the premise of a lie
I actually agree with this. But if they insist on 1 record, then a new stat should emerge, which are stats during games that matter. None of the garbage time stats should mislead people about who’s great
I seen most of them play. Mike is still on a different level than most of them. Yes, he got some style from Dr. Jay, but he took it to a whole different level and he wasn’t as tall as Dr. Jay.
Did you hear what that guy from fake goat kingdom said about the Lefraud’s 2011 Miami team? He claimed it wasn’t a super team it wasn’t a good constructed team? He believes there no such thing as a super team! This guy is either getting paid by unclutch sports or delusional!
😂😂😂🤣 LeBron actually reached the finals multiple times , conference finals multiple times, and second round multiple times without a Shaq or LeBron beside him... How many times has D Wade done that?
LeBron has less total games won in the finals than MJ. Let that sink in.... that Includes 6 yrs of losses plus the 16 wins for 4 rings He has 6 wins total in 6 finals combined the 6 finals his team lost in combined MJ has 24.wins in 6 to 11 losses LeBron has 16 losses to 2 wins in 4 finals combined
Saying that LeBron Lance Armstrong James can shoot better than GOAT MJ or Bean is like saying Lionel Ritchie can sing better than R Kelly..... IT'S NO COMPARISON!!!
@mrj2774 kobe studied a bunch of players moves, he used Hakeem post game and mastered it, he took Jordan's game and not only mastered it, he extended to the 3pt line, which made him a 3 level threat, whereas Jordan was a 2 level threat. I put him at worst Jordan's equal, because of this one xfactor. The level of competition and what he beat that level of competition with.
Son... I've said it for awhile now... If LeBron can shoot so we'll why did it take him TWENTY + YEARS to figure out how to shoot threes? Smh. Also I like how you mentioned thst despite LeBrons myriad of accomplishment, his GAME seems so awkward. #theformatpodcast
@@pambrown5625 He shot 40% from three in Miami ONCE. In statistics that's called an OUTLIER. Also as I know how much you love stats, go and look at WHERE LeBron has shot the majority of his shots from for the majority of his career. That "efficiency" PLUMNETS in the mid-range and deep twos. 🤷🏾♂️ But you got it. You can continue to scouring comments sections of sports channels to earn your Klutch check 😉. Hope you had a good Thanksgiving. #theformatpodcast
@@theformatpodcast1847bro lebron shoots better from 3 than mj and kobe so what does that mean nothing. Only when the line moved in did mj shoot 40 percent from the 3 so why didnt kobe shoot 40 from the 3? Thats a moot point
@@Mandownsports 1 MVP in 20 years 2 Fmvps out of 5 chips gave up a 3 1 Lead to Steve nash and Tim Thomas but that keeps him in the debate and swept by Dallas straight delusion bro
I dont think Steph doesn’t respect Bron aa a player but he saw MJ in all his glory and he is stating his opinion. What LBJ fans choose not to realize is the fact that when Lebron pushed every coach away cuz he didn’t want to do anything different MJ embraced the coaching. MJ also had better numbers than Lbj wen Bulls coach Doug Collins told MJ to run the point and he wantd to put the ball in his best playrs hands..FYI(32,8,8) I luv Bron and I tell my gen z bron groupie son its ok to be #2( I dont have him 2 but I do that for my son😉😉)
Eye test is king, when bron wears "check my stats" or brings up his stats in a loss. He is telling fans "don't use the eye test" his camp has been campaigning against the eye test for years..why? Because the eye test exposes empty stats, avoiding his defensive assignment for easy rebounds ect.
The only thing that is not valid in the GOAT convo is Le Balco. He was,is and will never be part of it. Kobe yes he was, is and will be in the GOAT convo. No amount of Media Voteds player, Stats, made up category "longetivity" will erase Balco's short cuts and NBa finals losses and lowering the standards made Balco's NBa career a massive failure.
Great show and topics. Ray Allen had to fight through tough defenses to get off many of his shots. He was a bigger, stronger and a fast athlete who was about 3 inches taller than Steph. Ray had a proven ability to handle tough defense. I'm taking him over Steph in every game situation, including defense, other than wide open 3s from the farthest distance. That move with acquiring Shumpert and J.R. was devious. Weakening your opponent, instead of facing and beating them, while not wanting the challenge of running through the gauntlet to win the Chip will never be respected. All of the Lebron stories are going to come out once he retires.
Kobe Bryant made his own lane form Jordan but, he wasn't Jordan! Kobe Bryant was a player that Mike didn't do and Lebron is come into the league at average age Kobe Bryant was 16 when the NBA notice that he was something special. Kobe Bryant will to refuse to loose to anyone is match for match as Jordan and more! And that alone is what I can understand! In my opinion I refuse to let anyone say they are better than me without playing me and not winning! To me it is that you better beat me where i can't come back from to win! And I believe that is the same drive Kobe and Jordan goes off of!
@sunshinehwy all star appearances mean absolutely nothing. Kyle korver and Bard Miller made an all star appearance. Most all star selections are based on team success unless you are a super star. Gasol for instance, his 1st 7 seasons as a number one option in Memphis 18ppg 10rebs 1 all star appearance and he only made that one because Amari stoudamire was injured . In L.A. as a #2 he averaged 18ppg 9rebs and was a perennial all star. Now explain what was the difference in Memphis and L.A.? The team success. Same as Rip Hamilton in Detroit.
And the reason MJ's shooting percentage WENT DOWN to .497 percent, is because of his last 2 years on the Wizards when he shot .42 percent playing on a bad knee. If MJ never played on the Wizards, his career shooting percentage would have been 52% from the field. Let that sink in.
Guillermo is a casual fan 😂 adding dunks and layups is not shooting. So clearly Lebron shooting percentage is obviously lower by taking out dunks and layups. Lebron is not a great shooter 🤦🏽♂️
Stephon Marbury spoke the truth. And I like the fact that he’s not afraid to just come out and say it. without any hesitation because nowadays even the old school players hesitate, and have to praise LeBron first before giving their answer about who’s the goat. And my thoughts about the whole eye test thing is. I started watching Jordan when I was 10 years old with my older sister when he got drafted in 84. I’m 50 years old now so I remember growing up judging players by the eye test and I feel like that’s the best way to do it because you’re actually watching players year after year instead of just looking at their stats and judging if they’re a great player off of that analytics has taken the fun out of watching players to determine if they’re great or not but that’s what happens when we let this generation hijack the criteria of how we judge if a player is great or not and the funny thing is I’m from Ohio and I grew up watching all of Jordan‘s Kobe’s and LeBron’s career and I got Jordan and Kobe as my number one and number two 🐐🐍
Dude, I don't get to tap in much, because I am extremely busy this time of year and there's also basketball 🏀 season... however, I love what you cats do, so let me know how I can support financially... or guest wise, I still have a few DFW contacts
Thanks bro, any you wanna support would be much appreciated. Just DM me on Instagram @mandown_podcast if you got some good guest or cashapp us @ $MandDownSports for any donations
lebalco gets exposed on this channel, and people see through his nonsense. Dude is not the goat and should not be mentioned with Mike,Kobe, and definitely not Kareem!
Mel I gotta correct you on a comment you made. About Jordan and kobe jump.shot. you said Jordan shot jump shots with a hand in his face and shot 50% and kobe shot a jump shot with a hand in his face and shot 45% Jordan did not have a hand in his face because he elevated so high you literally could not get a hand in his face which is equivalent to a open jump shot, kobe's jump shot heavily contested way more than Jordan's and it's not even close, because kobe didn't have that elevation on his jump shot. If kobe had Jordan's elevation kobe would have easily shot over 50% Phil Jackson and pippen as well has stated kobe was by far the better shooter, pippen even stated that kobe would shoot Jordan out of the gym. And this was 5 years before the last dance.
He must haven't seen people hands in Kobe face and he was still making them in a playoff series Battier hands was in his face Kobe is a volume shooter he took more shots than a lot of players
That's true Kobe made some of the toughest jump shots ever, Kobe would take on 3 players and force up a shot and make it sometimes, I think the only difference between mj and Kobe outside of the athletism and quickness was shot selection Kobe would shoot over 5 starters and 2 bench players before he passed it before passing it to a teammate that's not worthy because he didn't practice hard Shaq know
@@Mandownsports bro these kobe fans think mj was shooting a dam jump shot at peak jumping ability lol who shoots a jump shot at max vertical lolmj was a better shooter hands down, kobe was the more difficult shot maker, that's because mj didn't take ridiculous shots, kobe could get hotter than any player that I've ever seen but he could also shoot his team out of a game bt misses
The man that brought up the eye test is 100% right. As ball players we look at the players skillset to determine who is better. There’s no realistic world where LeBron is a better basketball player than Kobe Bryant. It’s not even close. The only REAL goat debate is between MJ and Kobe. I personally have MJ as the goat and Kobe right behind him. That debate is close. Lebron isn’t sniffing anything near those two
Mel my brother I really love the show 🙏🏽 . On the MJ and LeBron debate it's not even close just look at all of the all-star players and some superstar players that LeBron has at his disposal and he only won 4 championship s . When MJ played with the bulls he played with only one all-star on those championship teams and that was Scottie Pippen which was 7 all-star appearance s. And let this sink in MJ only lost one playoff series when Pippen was a legitimate all-star and that was when he came out of his first retirement. So Jordan playoff record during those championship years was a 17-1 record so what are we debating about.
Luka is overrated kindly like LeBron it's same b.s guys like rue and naji marshall can actually play but not wit them guys on the court because they play for stats jus some facts fo ya 💪
I'd rather discuss Greatest Primes. F this "goat" shit. Too subjective. . Let's discuss 4-8 years of pure Dominance. Bird aVerAgiNg 50-40-90 for 4 seasons is just nuts! Three-peats?!? 22 years of participation awards don't impress me half as much.
〽️an Down! This was definitely necessary ❤ Anyone that thinks bron is better than KOBE BEAN BRYANT is not a real basketball student nor a real fan. I grew up thinking magic was the best ever, then in 1998 I had to give Jordan his props, but I still was team magic. But when kobe went on his run from the time shaq left until he left the game, it was no doubt Kobe was no less than #2. I've never seen anyone better than him, but I give the nod to mj because he set the standard for what we think a great looks like in modern nba history
Jordan was physically bigger than Kobe and went up stronger and less affected by contract and prone to injury, so I’d put Jordan a little higher. Kobe also blew the 2004 Finals and Jordan never had such a blemish.
This was a really, really good discussion!, my guy Stephon M., merked this discussion. Alot of really great points were spoken, the morons still showed they dusty asses, no big surprise there, but Mel was on point with this discussion!, Jheah!, that's was caller was so irritating to listen to, he was dense and clueless. That cat was mad disrespectful about my guy Kobe. Great, great show Mel, I really enjoyed listening to it.
Bro when they did that Chris Paul trade. Lebron was already in Miami if I’m not mistaken. I think they overturned the CP3 trade because they was done using Kobe as the face of the league with the scandals. They were already focused on Lebron and they had to derail anything they could to help Lebron.
@mel your right about the eye test!! if that was the case then Austin Reeves would be the goat.. in high school dude was putting up numbers and he was passed over because they thought they was fake but it was in a small town then when they didn't recruit him and then saw him play they tried to recruit him cause they thought his stats was fake cause he was acting like 44 points.. if they was goin off of stats then he would of been recruited to a big time school easy but they had to see him play first.. lol
Bro Said MJ is a carbon copy of Dr. J… GTFOH Dr J jumpshot wasn’t impressive at all. Maybe there’s a resemblance in how they carried themselves and just being super athletic Other than that… I believe dude misused the “carbon copy”
Take away Dr. J athleticism… are they really similar in any way? Doc didn’t have a jumpshot Similar in archetype: 6-6, wiry, big hands, athletic ? Yes Similar game style? No
I MEAN NO DISRESPECT TO JORDAN WHEN I SAY THIS BUT IF CAREER WISE KAREEM IS IN FRONT OF KOBE , HE'S IN FRONT OF JORDAN AS WELL EASY..FROM AN ACCOMPLISHMENT STAND POINT 88-2 HIS COLLEGE CAREER GOING 30 -0 IN 1 SEASON AND 29-1 THE OTHER 2 SEASONS WITH WAY MORE COLLEGE ACHIEVEMENTS THAN JORDAN..ITS NOT EVEN WORTH COMPARING ..THEN ,LEBRON DOESN'T EVEN BELONG IN THE CONVERSATION..I TAKE CARSINO'S PERSPECTIVE WHEN IT COMES TO TRASH 🗑️ CAN JAMES.. HOWEVER JUST BETWEEN THE TWO SHOOTING GUARDS...IF WE INCLUDE CONFERENCES COMPETITION THEY PLAYED AGAINST FOR THEIR CAREERS I BELIEVE KOBE FACED MORE COMPETITION ..DUE TO THE FACT THAT THE SHORT 8 SEASONS MIKE FACED BIRD HE FACED BIRD WHO HAD A HURT BACK AND RETIRED EARLY WITH A 23-11 WINNING RECORD OVER MIKE & 6-0 IN THE PLAYOFFS VS MIKE ..BABY ZEKE HAD A RECORD OF 24-19 VS MIKE & 12 -10 OVER MIKE IN THE PLAYOFFS AND THE SAME AS BIRD ,BABY ZEKE WAS ON HIS WAY OUT OF THE LEAGUE RETIREMENT IN 94 AND IT TOOK MIKES BULLS 7 SEASONS TO GET COMPETITIVE SO MIKE HAD BABY ZEKE MAYBE 4 TO 5 SEASONS OF REAL COMPETITION VS BABY ZEKE!!... OLAJUWAN WAS IN THE WEST WITH A 13-10 RECORD VS JORDAN ...SO FOR MIKES EASTERN CONFERENCE COMPETITION WISE DOMINIQUE AND EWING WERE GREAT BUT THEY WERE THE ONLY ONES TO STAY IN THE EAST.BARKLEY WENT OUT WEST AND BIRD AND ISIAH RETIRED EARLY.. EVERYONE IN THE WEST KOBE FACED STAYED IN THE WEST FOR THE MOST PART WITH ONLY DUNCAN HAVING A WINNING RECORD OVER KOBE AND KARL MALONE BUT KOBE DIDN'T REALLY PLAY HIS FIRST 3 SEASONS BUT AFTER HE BECAME A STARTER HE WAS 13-12 OVER MALONE.....SO FROM THEIR RESPECTIVE CONFERENCES COMPETITION WISE KOBE FACED MORE COMPETITION LONGER WITH MORE SUCCESS TAKING AWAY HIS FIRST 3 SEASONS COMING OFF THE BENCH ... ADDING KOBE HAS MORE DEFENSIVE SELECTIONS , ASSIST AND POINTS PLAYING THE SAME POSITION.WITH KOBE HAVING A 7-5 RECORD VS JORDAN..3 YEARS COMING OFF THE BENCH HURT HIS LAST 4 SEASONS & MIKE PLAYING 15 SEASONS,...IF ANYTHING I'D SAY THEY WERE EVEN .... I'LL EVEN TAKE THE WHOLE 1-A 1-B LABEL BEFORE I ALLOW YOU ALL TO PUT MIKE OVER KOBE ..KOBE'S JUMPER,MIDRANGE ,LEFT HAND AND POST GAME WERE ALL BETTER..HELL THE BEST WE'VE SEEN..THEN HE RETIRED AND HAD THE MAMBA ACADEMY AND GAVE SOOOO MUCH BACK TO THE GAME WITH PLAYERS HE'S HELPED AND INFLUENCED WE CAN SEE IN THE GAME TODAY IN THE NBA AND GLOBALLY!!!!... ..THE RESPECT OPPOSING TEAMS AND THEIR FANS SHOWED KOBE HIS RETIREMENT YEARS WAS LIKE NOTHING WE'D SEEN... TRUTHFULLY YOU JORDAN FANS WOULD DO BETTER WITH YOUR 1-A 1-B CLAIMS BUT PLEASE STOP WITH THE CLEAR JORDAN CLAIMS..ITS JUST NOT REALISTIC!!!!!
It's got to be Kareem. He wasn't as good of a basketball player as Jordan, mainly because of positions, but he was at least as impactful as MJ was. Then there's Kobe Bean Bryant. There's nothing I can say that hasn't already been said!
If LeBron was actually amazing everyone would be tuning in but Jordan still holds record for most viewers when less people were on the planet bc everyone knew they're watching something special
To me there are three areas for the B ball GOAT in no order and MJ beats your favorite player in all three or two of the three areas. Winning Championships Overall Stats Eye test/Game looks better
Old school J fan and Chicago resident. When did the pupil pass the teacher? J taught Kobe the way the game should be played and then some but not everything. Kobe copied moves from day one but J entered league his own man. Its true he used Dr J's reverse layup but J perfected. The rest of his game was unlike any player before him. That's why Magic is my second GOAT because he was the first big point guard ever to dominate his position and more importantly his will to win reminds me of J
It's not fake James is in the #50 to #75 area of greats! To many crap records to even ever have been considered top 25! Turnovers, missed shots, travling (refs) know call! know D!!! 6 8 260 lbs. an avg 7 boards a game when the lanes empty half the time! Pathetic!!!
The question should be Who did Kobe Compete with vs the others, Kobe Bryant competed at a high level with people like Tim Duncan Kobe Bryant infact is the only player with a Winning Record against Tim Duncan in the play offs and LeBron has lost to Tim Duncan in the finals 2 times and 1 of those times he got blown out with Dwade Bosh Ray Allen in his arsenal but sadly Many Ginobli coming off the bench with little patty mills and a freshman defender Kawhi with a old Tim Duncan was enough to blowout the goat. Also who was pay Gasol before Kobe, did he ever get to the playoffs before Kobe? Would you pick Gasol over Pippen or Denise Rodman ? ? Would you pick metta world peace over Rodman or Pippen? We have to compare and contrast and put into context, magic and bird was out of their prime when Jordan came into their prime but people still use them to make a case for Jordan.
@imrazali6005 the level of competition that kobe faced and beat is unmatched in league history and he beat that competition with less help than anybody. 86% of all his playoff opponents won 50+ games that's unheard of in any team sport. The amount of elite defensive wing players he faced night in and night out while facing advanced defensive schemes is crazy. In contrast to Jordan playing in a isolation era against average to below average defensive wing players on most nights. That's BBQ chicken for Jordan. The closes thing Jordan faced to what kobe kobe faced was the 1996 sonics. That season the sonics played the most illegal zone defense in league history and got called for the most illegal defensive calls in league history, the Bulls complained that series that the sonics were getting away with playing illegal zone, it's well documented. Now add one of the greatest defensive guards all time in Gary Payton and you have what kobe faced almost every single night. The outcome was Jordan having his worst playoff performance of his nba career. And why he pleaded with the committee and the league meetings in 02 to not allow zone, he stated if he had to face zone defenses then he wouldn't have had the career he did. The evidence *1996 NBA FINALS*
Now position wise! Jordan and Kobe are guards! Put Lebron up at Karl Molone, or Ben Wallace those men of that size and power that played the same position as Lebron compare them to him who is better! I would even put Ron Artest against lebron on working the floor who is better then! Kobe walked the floor onto NBA at 16yrs old! Who can do that! Lebron didn't he was 18 Kobe was 16yrs old.
People who know basketball know that's what Bron camp is doing it's to Late you played to long you suppose to have these stats and his shooting is still weak it's not on the real shooters level because he just now have a Lil shot it's still a weak shot he has you can't depend on his shot that's why he still doesn't want to take that last shot when they need it the same Ole Bron it's nothing different about him and his game you can stop his progress if you stop him from dribbling he's stuck just look at his game no bag just the facts!!
People have to understand how hard it is and how much your body breaks down, how focused you have to be to 3 peat even one time like Kobe and Shaq led teams, Jordan did it twice, that alone should make him the undisputed GOAT
Just to add to Lebron's position on the goat list. At small forward , which supposedly is Lebron's position, who is more polished and complete there. Why Larry Bird of course. So wherever you rank Bird is Lebron not after him?
Kobe probably wouldn't win any rings on the same team with Scottie pippen. Kobe might have a game similar to Mike but Kobe is not Michael Jordan and he doesn't have the charisma of Michael Jordan so he can't massage the ego of Scottie pippen to keep him engaged...
This is the one topic I think about so much especially when people compared Kobe Bryant to Michael Jordan because you can't just insert another guy because his game is similar and expect the result to be the same... Michael Jordan did a lot to shield Scottie pippen from the media and take on the tough questions so his teammates didn't have to answer them. There were times when the media wanted to interview Scottie pippen but Michael Jordan would pull him away and say no let's go. I don't believe Kobe Bryant would do those things for Scottie pippen and Michael Jordan knows you have to throw a dog a bone and kobe ain't throwing a dog any bones! You have to go get that bone for yourself when you're on the team with Kobe Bryant... Kobe Bryant is a victim of his own intelligence and life circumstances growing up as a loner in italy. He didn't socialize like Michael Jordan did growing up so he has a tendency to alienate teammates where Michael Jordan is able to ingratiate himself with teammates and for a guy like Scottie pippen that's going to make all the difference. This is why Michael Jordan praised Scottie pippen in the media so much, because he knew Scottie pippen needed to hear those things come from the best player on the team...
Thank you for speaking the truth here. Lebrone inability to play in ANY system is also what makes him limited. He has never really had a hall of fame coach " where he can actually shut his mouth and listen to". Every coach he's had Since he's entered the league has been second to "to him," which is he's played with so many coaches AND got many of the FIRED! He's " the gufted savant how can it be his fault? ." But we have to ask this question... . How can a" gifted savant" win lesser championchips, play on more teams and play with more all-star players than everyone else and still be called the greatest ever ? Ridiculous! ? Lastely, this backwards notion that jordan can be " the greatest to ever do it and lebron to be called the most complete individual player of all time is more BS!" To talk abt this dude is to "not deal with reality ! "
What hurts Kobe was he was a Robbin to Shaq during the prime of his winning. I don't like how Lebron got to greatest but MJ nor Lebron were every Robbins. Robbin can not be the Batman/GOAT.
Legit question, when LeBron is done and gone, hopefully sooner than later. What is the direction the league will take? Hit a soft recently and start mvmg the game back to where it was, keeping it the same, or only have 41 games per season to eliminate load management. 😢. Whatever it is, I just hope there are to try and reboot to the 90s or 2000s season.
@@hotpiegravy2347 the league gotta do a hard reboot and reset. They have to build the league around GREAT basketball like the 90s & early 2000s. Let us see great competition again.
@@hotpiegravy2347 well, that's what they should do but I don't think they will. What I actually think they will do is keep changing rules and adding more gimmicks like a new allstar format and the in season tournament and a new playoff format to pretend they trying to create a buzz but they are really just finding new ways to monetize a new idea with their sponsors. The NBA will no longer be a basketball league but instead be a entertainment league that the owners, Vegas, Amazon and politicians can use as a vehicle to drain money from its fans, push agendas, and capture the minds of the younger generation
Mike would not do well with Lebron teams, Jordan would struggle because he need another primary ball handler and defender. Jordan would struggle because he would have to do it all, like Lebron has struggled from doing it all.
I look to see what kinda decisions they make. You seen some of these dudes ball hogging when they ain’t the one. The whole team is out of sync, and he think he the gas to the car when he the sugar in the tank. Just messing everything up because he wanna shine. Jordan to me is number 1, Kobe 2 or 1A, Jordan set the precedent and didn’t allow his teams to lose 3 straight for 8 years…nobody can say that. It’s because if they were in danger of losing 3 in a row he would take over, and they’d win. No one can say that. And idk if ppl understand what that really means. He originated "I will not lose" before Jay Z lol. I think like the one caller was talking bout putting Jordan with Lebron, it wouldn’t happen. Jordan would dip out, "I’m retiring because f*ck Lebron." And yeah you have to get players that are designed for Lebron to play with, I think Jordan would be able to fit in with whoever. Long comment, my bad. Y’all the GOAT on here for basketball talk lol.
I haven't respected LeBron ever since his decision to join wade n bosh in miami stacking the deck ass ninjas him n wade was cheaters i grew up watching every team having one superstar to build around i dont ever remember the best player lebron n the 3rd best player wade along with a top 10 player bosh team up in the 80s, 90s n even 2000s til i saw lebron/wade then 6 years player we had the 2nd n 3rd curry/kd best players team up with a top 20 sg,klay its a shame
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
I don't know if any of y'all remember Dragonball Z. But Lebron is literally Hercule from DBZ. Seeks adoration from fans by lying, manipulating, and coniving.
😂😂😂😂...
Nice observation 😂
Don’t do Hercule like that he didn’t hesitate to shoot at super Buu lebron would’ve passed the gun to Dende
@deshaunwatson4462 😂😂😂
Best illustration PERIOD 🤣🤣🤣
"Lebron mechanics shooting with his elbows out.." 🤣🤣🤣 about spit out my drink 😆
@@V12BenzAMG 🤣🤣🤣🤣
How can you use stats instead of the eyes, when Lebron been stat padding for years?
Basically he’s sayin Kobe is a real basketball player, LeBron is a football player playing basketball
I’ve said that since he came into the league him playing basketball was a business decision and a good decision for him and his family but he’s an overrated player.
" Everything that's missing in the nba automatically comes back when defense comes back ". I think that's a micdrop right there...
That's a fact!
If everyone wanted to be like Mike (The GOAT), and Kobe was the only one to successfully get the closest, then how is LeBron better than Kobe? He’s not.
MJ
Kareem
Kobe
Everyone else (LeBron is not top 10)
This has become such a joke! LeBron needs to get the hell out of the league and stop all this nonsense!
@@card-pull-king asap
Mel, you know your stuff sir....best sports talk on youtube hands down (or should i say, Man Down)... logic, reason, and facts to back up everything...i love the debates!
Thanks homie, I appreciate the support 100%
Lebron fans don’t want to hear the truth. They will tear down Lebrons teammates to big up Lebron
Every time
IN 20+ YRS OF PLAYING IN THE NBA, YOUR 3PT FG PERCENTAGE IMPROVES, BUT NOT FT PERCENTAGE???? 😅😂
🤣🤣🤣🤣
People who put Kobe or Lebron above Jordan still dont understand what type of athelete, basketball player, competitor, student of the game and winner Jordan was.
That's a fact.
I just said the same thing
@avandocartwright5616 magic is my favorite player.. the problem with a lot of Jordan fans, is when someone points out certain aspects of the game that other players excelled at better than Jordan, they get defensive and take it as they're saying the player is better than Jordan. Breaking news Jordan is not the greatest at every aspect of the game. He is arguably the greatest individual player to ever play the game, but the game is not a individual sport and their are more aspects of the game that are more valuable to winning than being a unstoppable force that can score at will. Intangibles are more valuable to winning than any individual stat line. Jordan's 63pts vs Boston should tell you that, his 37ppg average in 86 should tell you that. Phil Jackson said it best. Pippen was more valuable to the TEAMS SUCCESS THAN JORDAN WAS. He said nobody can score the ball like Jordan but scoring isn't the end all be all, pippen was our leader, he directed our offense and he got the best out of his teammates. He took on all the big challenges for us.. if Jordan had to guard the best player on the opposing team every single night he wouldn't have the energy to be the type of scorer that he was. Not saying he wasn't a great defender because he was without a doubt. But he didn't play lock down defense on the opposing teams best wing player for 48 minutes
@toddjones2245 pippen was not more valuable than mj, you said a bunch of jibberish, mj was a better offense and defensive player than pippen, pippen was a great role player tho, and yes mj needed pippen, but nobody wins by himself, but pippen has said numerous times mj made him the player we all know and love
@bobbymoore2076 so you're saying Phil Jackson doesn't know what made his team great? This is why I don't take most of yall super fans seriously. Once you think you know more than the actual coach who knows what made his team great, you automatically lose all credibility.
Heres a hot take for yall, lebrons not even better then duncan. Duncan has 2, back to back ncaa chips, won a championship in his second year in the league (only ever done by magic), never won less then 50 games and never missed the playoffs once in his career (in the stacked west filled with kobes lakers and nashes suns), has 5 chips in the nba and a 12-5 record on lebron. And came a lucky ray allen three away from a 6th.
Duncan has a great ase to be above Lebron for sure
Gotta correct you on some facts about Duncan.
He never won a Championship in college.
Magic won a championship his rookie season, Bird won in his second season.
Both were rookies 79-80 seasons ~ Magic won in 80’ Bird in 81’.
I’ve been a supporter of the Spurs since 78’ back to the Ice Man George Gervin days.
Watched Duncan a ton in college, live (I was a Maryland fan | traveled down to college park dozens of times to watch the great college players.
I also watched Duncan destroy Antonio McDyess in a tournament game at the Baltimore arena..
Everything else you spoke was true about Duncan.
Just issuing the facts.
@mobrown1198 I said Duncan won in college!? When?
@mobrown1198 my friend, use google he won 2 back to back ACC (american college championships) and i said he won in his second year and referenced magic because he was the only guy who did it as early as him (didnt know bird won that early, so thanks for pointing that out).
@@vindigga6 lies
Starbury is absolutely right. Fundamentally Kobe is a better BASKETBALL PLAYER than LeQueen and it’s based on the fact that Kobe could let other players handle the ball and run the offense while Kobe played off ball and could run off screens and cut. LeQueen can not do any of those things consistently. And the people who say you can’t judge a player with the eye test can’t break down a basketball play or sequence of plays to save their lives so they are compensating for their lack of basketball knowledge by trying to discredit the eye test and the wealth of knowledge you can gain just by STUDYING FILM!!!!
Stephon is speaking the truth 🙏🙏Man Down your show is the shit, informative, well spoken and facts
@@tonyjones7675 thanks bro, I appreciate that 🙏 💯
Isaiah Thomas tried to bench Marbury in NY. But Marbury said "I know some stuff on you. I'm playing." And he played. Waiting for the Marbury biography to hear about what he "knew" about IT.
Lol
He knew about Thomas sexual preference allegitally.
Also, how are some people so delusional? Man said that there is nothing that Kobe did better than Lebron, then went on to quote stats. Kobe led the Lakers and led the Olympics squad. Guillermo is on something for sure.
He on that LeDiddy oil 🛢
@@Mandownsports Hahahaaa
Someone said that the eye test is stupid, speaking about a game that is played based on vision. Players have to rely on what they see to play and are judged based on how they perform in situations that are seen by players and fans alike. The eye test is important because it provides context to players and games in ways that stats cannot. For example, we know Rodman's stats but without seeing him play or hearing from people who did, you would not be able to grasp his true impact.
Very well said and accurate Sir 👏 👌
@Mandownsports 👊🏿
🎯
@Mandownsports ill piggy back on that statement
To the caller that said that Wade was on the way down when Lebron joined the Heat, do remember that, in 2011, Wade outplayed Lebron. It is important to speak sensibly when you open your mouth to speak.
These people tend to be all in their feelings. Didn't Wade berate Lebron for how badly he was performing?
Bruh, it's super hard to jabe a conversation like that because you gotta correct them on everything they say or just let it go while they build a case on the premise of a lie
@@Mandownsports I agree; can't let them build on the lies. Well done!
Starbury baby! Coney Island native
This era of NBA Basketball deseves a separate But Equal Hall of Fame Record Books. #ThisIsntTheSameGameAnymore 😂
Exactly 💯
I actually agree with this. But if they insist on 1 record, then a new stat should emerge, which are stats during games that matter. None of the garbage time stats should mislead people about who’s great
So Mel basically what we finding out is LeBron or the nba sabotage Melos career. 🤯
Pretty much
A few folks. They sabotaged Kobe too
I seen most of them play. Mike is still on a different level than most of them. Yes, he got some style from Dr. Jay, but he took it to a whole different level and he wasn’t as tall as Dr. Jay.
Best show. I'm saving this one!!!!!
🫡 salute, glad you found the channel
Did you hear what that guy from fake goat kingdom said about the Lefraud’s 2011 Miami team? He claimed it wasn’t a super team it wasn’t a good constructed team? He believes there no such thing as a super team! This guy is either getting paid by unclutch sports or delusional!
🤣🤣🤣
I’ll take a healthy d wade over bron. He more of a dawg
Tim Duncan and Kevin Durant too
😂😂😂🤣 LeBron actually reached the finals multiple times , conference finals multiple times, and second round multiple times without a Shaq or LeBron beside him... How many times has D Wade done that?
D wade won with a fat out his prime shaq. Lebron has always needed a 1a player his side to win
@@liquidswordz2797 What happened when Shaq left?
@liquidswordz2797 A lot of great players have won with other top players in the league , not just LeBron... it just probably look different.
LeBron has less total games won in the finals than MJ. Let that sink in.... that Includes 6 yrs of losses plus the 16 wins for 4 rings
He has 6 wins total in 6 finals combined the 6 finals his team lost in combined
MJ has 24.wins in 6 to 11 losses
LeBron has 16 losses to 2 wins in 4 finals combined
Saying that LeBron Lance Armstrong James can shoot better than GOAT MJ or Bean is like saying Lionel Ritchie can sing better than R Kelly..... IT'S NO COMPARISON!!!
That was insane
Amen my brother
He is in the same category as James Harden, volume shooters and volume scorer's 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
When it come to the gait debate if someone says lebron and then pivots to why he does off the court I checkout because they have no leg to stand on
Kobe studied all the greats as well and didn't steal all Jordans moves
@mrj2774 kobe studied a bunch of players moves, he used Hakeem post game and mastered it, he took Jordan's game and not only mastered it, he extended to the 3pt line, which made him a 3 level threat, whereas Jordan was a 2 level threat. I put him at worst Jordan's equal, because of this one xfactor. The level of competition and what he beat that level of competition with.
@@toddjones2245that's straight facts 👌
He also studied one leg fade away of dirk after 2011 imagine if he is playing in this soft era withe step back and lot of spacing
Son... I've said it for awhile now... If LeBron can shoot so we'll why did it take him TWENTY + YEARS to figure out how to shoot threes? Smh. Also I like how you mentioned thst despite LeBrons myriad of accomplishment, his GAME seems so awkward.
#theformatpodcast
He shot 40 from the 3 in miami. And u cant be that into shooting efficiency and think kobe is better than bron. Cant help yourself
@@pambrown5625 He shot 40% from three in Miami ONCE. In statistics that's called an OUTLIER. Also as I know how much you love stats, go and look at WHERE LeBron has shot the majority of his shots from for the majority of his career. That "efficiency" PLUMNETS in the mid-range and deep twos. 🤷🏾♂️ But you got it. You can continue to scouring comments sections of sports channels to earn your Klutch check 😉. Hope you had a good Thanksgiving. #theformatpodcast
@@theformatpodcast1847bro lebron shoots better from 3 than mj and kobe so what does that mean nothing. Only when the line moved in did mj shoot 40 percent from the 3 so why didnt kobe shoot 40 from the 3? Thats a moot point
He still ain’t figured out how to shoot free throws
@HeftyJefa facts. #theformatpodcast
Wats good Mel! Great show.
Salute 💯
@@Mandownsports😅😅😅😅😅 you sound delusional Kobe was never better than LeBron since high school
@keithmitchell8372 if you say so
@@Mandownsports 1 MVP in 20 years 2 Fmvps out of 5 chips gave up a 3 1 Lead to Steve nash and Tim Thomas but that keeps him in the debate and swept by Dallas straight delusion bro
@keithmitchell8372 oh ok. I can dig it
He doesn't watch basketball 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭 saying Iverson's better than Wade 2009 is wild 😅😅😅😅😂😂😂😂
I dont think Steph doesn’t respect Bron aa a player but he saw MJ in all his glory and he is stating his opinion. What LBJ fans choose not to realize is the fact that when Lebron pushed every coach away cuz he didn’t want to do anything different MJ embraced the coaching. MJ also had better numbers than Lbj wen Bulls coach Doug Collins told MJ to run the point and he wantd to put the ball in his best playrs hands..FYI(32,8,8)
I luv Bron and I tell my gen z bron groupie son its ok to be #2( I dont have him 2 but I do that for my son😉😉)
Eye test is king, when bron wears "check my stats" or brings up his stats in a loss. He is telling fans "don't use the eye test" his camp has been campaigning against the eye test for years..why? Because the eye test exposes empty stats, avoiding his defensive assignment for easy rebounds ect.
The only thing that is not valid in the GOAT convo is Le Balco. He was,is and will never be part of it. Kobe yes he was, is and will be in the GOAT convo. No amount of Media Voteds player, Stats, made up category "longetivity" will erase Balco's short cuts and NBa finals losses and lowering the standards made Balco's NBa career a massive failure.
Great show and topics. Ray Allen had to fight through tough defenses to get off many of his shots. He was a bigger, stronger and a fast athlete who was about 3 inches taller than Steph. Ray had a proven ability to handle tough defense. I'm taking him over Steph in every game situation, including defense, other than wide open 3s from the farthest distance.
That move with acquiring Shumpert and J.R. was devious. Weakening your opponent, instead of facing and beating them, while not wanting the challenge of running through the gauntlet to win the Chip will never be respected. All of the Lebron stories are going to come out once he retires.
Man, everything you just typed is IN POINT!
Kobe Bryant made his own lane form Jordan but, he wasn't Jordan! Kobe Bryant was a player that Mike didn't do and Lebron is come into the league at average age Kobe Bryant was 16 when the NBA notice that he was something special. Kobe Bryant will to refuse to loose to anyone is match for match as Jordan and more! And that alone is what I can understand! In my opinion I refuse to let anyone say they are better than me without playing me and not winning! To me it is that you better beat me where i can't come back from to win! And I believe that is the same drive Kobe and Jordan goes off of!
LeBron was forced to be in the debate by their own selves.
Guillermo is always whylin…😂
Lol
Lol Bron-Kobe both had 1x All Star teammate when KG-Ray-Pierce beat them, but only one ran to a Finals MVP .. that's leadership?
@sunshinehwy all star appearances mean absolutely nothing. Kyle korver and Bard Miller made an all star appearance. Most all star selections are based on team success unless you are a super star. Gasol for instance, his 1st 7 seasons as a number one option in Memphis 18ppg 10rebs 1 all star appearance and he only made that one because Amari stoudamire was injured . In L.A. as a #2 he averaged 18ppg 9rebs and was a perennial all star. Now explain what was the difference in Memphis and L.A.? The team success. Same as Rip Hamilton in Detroit.
And the reason MJ's shooting percentage WENT DOWN to .497 percent, is because of his last 2 years on the Wizards when he shot .42 percent playing on a bad knee. If MJ never played on the Wizards, his career shooting percentage would have been 52% from the field. Let that sink in.
Guillermo is a casual fan 😂 adding dunks and layups is not shooting. So clearly Lebron shooting percentage is obviously lower by taking out dunks and layups. Lebron is not a great shooter 🤦🏽♂️
That's so obvious lol 😆 Why would he argue against that?
Stephon Marbury spoke the truth. And I like the fact that he’s not afraid to just come out and say it. without any hesitation because nowadays even the old school players hesitate, and have to praise LeBron first before giving their answer about who’s the goat. And my thoughts about the whole eye test thing is. I started watching Jordan when I was 10 years old with my older sister when he got drafted in 84. I’m 50 years old now so I remember growing up judging players by the eye test and I feel like that’s the best way to do it because you’re actually watching players year after year instead of just looking at their stats and judging if they’re a great player off of that analytics has taken the fun out of watching players to determine if they’re great or not but that’s what happens when we let this generation hijack the criteria of how we judge if a player is great or not and the funny thing is I’m from Ohio and I grew up watching all of Jordan‘s Kobe’s and LeBron’s career and I got Jordan and Kobe as my number one and number two 🐐🐍
Dude, I don't get to tap in much, because I am extremely busy this time of year and there's also basketball 🏀 season... however, I love what you cats do, so let me know how I can support financially... or guest wise, I still have a few DFW contacts
Thanks bro, any you wanna support would be much appreciated. Just DM me on Instagram @mandown_podcast if you got some good guest or cashapp us @ $MandDownSports for any donations
lebalco gets exposed on this channel, and people see through his nonsense. Dude is not the goat and should not be mentioned with Mike,Kobe, and definitely not Kareem!
The funny thing is Zo morning named guys but he himself...and Shaq, are both part of that group lol.
Right ✅️
Mel I gotta correct you on a comment you made. About Jordan and kobe jump.shot. you said Jordan shot jump shots with a hand in his face and shot 50% and kobe shot a jump shot with a hand in his face and shot 45% Jordan did not have a hand in his face because he elevated so high you literally could not get a hand in his face which is equivalent to a open jump shot, kobe's jump shot heavily contested way more than Jordan's and it's not even close, because kobe didn't have that elevation on his jump shot. If kobe had Jordan's elevation kobe would have easily shot over 50% Phil Jackson and pippen as well has stated kobe was by far the better shooter, pippen even stated that kobe would shoot Jordan out of the gym. And this was 5 years before the last dance.
@@toddjones2245 fair enough 👌
He must haven't seen people hands in Kobe face and he was still making them in a playoff series Battier hands was in his face Kobe is a volume shooter he took more shots than a lot of players
That's true Kobe made some of the toughest jump shots ever, Kobe would take on 3 players and force up a shot and make it sometimes, I think the only difference between mj and Kobe outside of the athletism and quickness was shot selection Kobe would shoot over 5 starters and 2 bench players before he passed it before passing it to a teammate that's not worthy because he didn't practice hard Shaq know
That's very true
@@Mandownsports bro these kobe fans think mj was shooting a dam jump shot at peak jumping ability lol who shoots a jump shot at max vertical lolmj was a better shooter hands down, kobe was the more difficult shot maker, that's because mj didn't take ridiculous shots, kobe could get hotter than any player that I've ever seen but he could also shoot his team out of a game bt misses
The man that brought up the eye test is 100% right. As ball players we look at the players skillset to determine who is better. There’s no realistic world where LeBron is a better basketball player than Kobe Bryant. It’s not even close. The only REAL goat debate is between MJ and Kobe. I personally have MJ as the goat and Kobe right behind him. That debate is close. Lebron isn’t sniffing anything near those two
You preaching
Mel my brother I really love the show 🙏🏽 . On the MJ and LeBron debate it's not even close just look at all of the all-star players and some superstar players that LeBron has at his disposal and he only won 4 championship s . When MJ played with the bulls he played with only one all-star on those championship teams and that was Scottie Pippen which was 7 all-star appearance s. And let this sink in MJ only lost one playoff series when Pippen was a legitimate all-star and that was when he came out of his first retirement. So Jordan playoff record during those championship years was a 17-1 record so what are we debating about.
Luka is overrated kindly like LeBron it's same b.s guys like rue and naji marshall can actually play but not wit them guys on the court because they play for stats jus some facts fo ya 💪
I'd rather discuss Greatest Primes. F this "goat" shit. Too subjective. . Let's discuss 4-8 years of pure Dominance.
Bird aVerAgiNg 50-40-90 for 4 seasons is just nuts! Three-peats?!? 22 years of participation awards don't impress me half as much.
I grew up hating Jordan and if i had the 1st pick of any all time great im taking Mike. Lol. If i had the 2nd im taking Kobe. Simple as that.
Same
〽️an Down! This was definitely necessary ❤ Anyone that thinks bron is better than KOBE BEAN BRYANT is not a real basketball student nor a real fan. I grew up thinking magic was the best ever, then in 1998 I had to give Jordan his props, but I still was team magic. But when kobe went on his run from the time shaq left until he left the game, it was no doubt Kobe was no less than #2. I've never seen anyone better than him, but I give the nod to mj because he set the standard for what we think a great looks like in modern nba history
I don't even think it's close
@Mandownsports aint no thought, it's stamped! 💯 〽️an Down
Jordan was physically bigger than Kobe and went up stronger and less affected by contract and prone to injury, so I’d put Jordan a little higher. Kobe also blew the 2004 Finals and Jordan never had such a blemish.
I completely agree with you. Kareem is number 2.
This was a really, really good discussion!, my guy Stephon M., merked this discussion. Alot of really great points were spoken, the morons still showed they dusty asses, no big surprise there, but Mel was on point with this discussion!, Jheah!, that's was caller was so irritating to listen to, he was dense and clueless. That cat was mad disrespectful about my guy Kobe. Great, great show Mel, I really enjoyed listening to it.
Thanks bro, glad you enjoyed it
Bro when they did that Chris Paul trade. Lebron was already in Miami if I’m not mistaken. I think they overturned the CP3 trade because they was done using Kobe as the face of the league with the scandals. They were already focused on Lebron and they had to derail anything they could to help Lebron.
Good point
@mel your right about the eye test!! if that was the case then Austin Reeves would be the goat.. in high school dude was putting up numbers and he was passed over because they thought they was fake but it was in a small town then when they didn't recruit him and then saw him play they tried to recruit him cause they thought his stats was fake cause he was acting like 44 points.. if they was goin off of stats then he would of been recruited to a big time school easy but they had to see him play first.. lol
That's interesting 🤔
MAGIC IS NOT IN THE CONVO? 5 RINGS IN 15 YEARS
Bro Said MJ is a carbon copy of Dr. J… GTFOH
Dr J jumpshot wasn’t impressive at all.
Maybe there’s a resemblance in how they carried themselves and just being super athletic
Other than that… I believe dude misused the “carbon copy”
You might be right ✅️
@JEF8LOVE Jordan was a carbon copy of DRJ the difference is Jordan added more to his game. Which made him better
Maybe we have different understandings of what a “carbon copy” is
Take away Dr. J athleticism… are they really similar in any way?
Doc didn’t have a jumpshot
Similar in archetype: 6-6, wiry, big hands, athletic ? Yes
Similar game style? No
I MEAN NO DISRESPECT TO JORDAN WHEN I SAY THIS BUT IF CAREER WISE KAREEM IS IN FRONT OF KOBE , HE'S IN FRONT OF JORDAN AS WELL EASY..FROM AN ACCOMPLISHMENT STAND POINT 88-2 HIS COLLEGE CAREER GOING 30 -0 IN 1 SEASON AND 29-1 THE OTHER 2 SEASONS WITH WAY MORE COLLEGE ACHIEVEMENTS THAN JORDAN..ITS NOT EVEN WORTH COMPARING ..THEN ,LEBRON DOESN'T EVEN BELONG IN THE CONVERSATION..I TAKE CARSINO'S PERSPECTIVE WHEN IT COMES TO TRASH 🗑️ CAN JAMES.. HOWEVER JUST BETWEEN THE TWO SHOOTING GUARDS...IF WE INCLUDE CONFERENCES COMPETITION THEY PLAYED AGAINST FOR THEIR CAREERS I BELIEVE KOBE FACED MORE COMPETITION ..DUE TO THE FACT THAT THE SHORT 8 SEASONS MIKE FACED BIRD HE FACED BIRD WHO HAD A HURT BACK AND RETIRED EARLY WITH A 23-11 WINNING RECORD OVER MIKE & 6-0 IN THE PLAYOFFS VS MIKE ..BABY ZEKE HAD A RECORD OF 24-19 VS MIKE & 12 -10 OVER MIKE IN THE PLAYOFFS AND THE SAME AS BIRD ,BABY ZEKE WAS ON HIS WAY OUT OF THE LEAGUE RETIREMENT IN 94 AND IT TOOK MIKES BULLS 7 SEASONS TO GET COMPETITIVE SO MIKE HAD BABY ZEKE MAYBE 4 TO 5 SEASONS OF REAL COMPETITION VS BABY ZEKE!!... OLAJUWAN WAS IN THE WEST WITH A 13-10 RECORD VS JORDAN ...SO FOR MIKES EASTERN CONFERENCE COMPETITION WISE DOMINIQUE AND EWING WERE GREAT BUT THEY WERE THE ONLY ONES TO STAY IN THE EAST.BARKLEY WENT OUT WEST AND BIRD AND ISIAH RETIRED EARLY.. EVERYONE IN THE WEST KOBE FACED STAYED IN THE WEST FOR THE MOST PART WITH ONLY DUNCAN HAVING A WINNING RECORD OVER KOBE AND KARL MALONE BUT KOBE DIDN'T REALLY PLAY HIS FIRST 3 SEASONS BUT AFTER HE BECAME A STARTER HE WAS 13-12 OVER MALONE.....SO FROM THEIR RESPECTIVE CONFERENCES COMPETITION WISE KOBE FACED MORE COMPETITION LONGER WITH MORE SUCCESS TAKING AWAY HIS FIRST 3 SEASONS COMING OFF THE BENCH ... ADDING KOBE HAS MORE DEFENSIVE SELECTIONS , ASSIST AND POINTS PLAYING THE SAME POSITION.WITH KOBE HAVING A 7-5 RECORD VS JORDAN..3 YEARS COMING OFF THE BENCH HURT HIS LAST 4 SEASONS & MIKE PLAYING 15 SEASONS,...IF ANYTHING I'D SAY THEY WERE EVEN .... I'LL EVEN TAKE THE WHOLE 1-A 1-B LABEL BEFORE I ALLOW YOU ALL TO PUT MIKE OVER KOBE ..KOBE'S JUMPER,MIDRANGE ,LEFT HAND AND POST GAME WERE ALL BETTER..HELL THE BEST WE'VE SEEN..THEN HE RETIRED AND HAD THE MAMBA ACADEMY AND GAVE SOOOO MUCH BACK TO THE GAME WITH PLAYERS HE'S HELPED AND INFLUENCED WE CAN SEE IN THE GAME TODAY IN THE NBA AND GLOBALLY!!!!... ..THE RESPECT OPPOSING TEAMS AND THEIR FANS SHOWED KOBE HIS RETIREMENT YEARS WAS LIKE NOTHING WE'D SEEN... TRUTHFULLY YOU JORDAN FANS WOULD DO BETTER WITH YOUR 1-A 1-B CLAIMS BUT PLEASE STOP WITH THE CLEAR JORDAN CLAIMS..ITS JUST NOT REALISTIC!!!!!
People need to find something to do better besides arguing about something that means anything!
LeFake to the Max needs to stop it
6 rings to 3 and a half season bubble chip, 2 (3 peats ) to zero 3 peats ?
How ignorant is that Carmelo Phil Jackson had nothing to do with that
It's got to be Kareem. He wasn't as good of a basketball player as Jordan, mainly because of positions, but he was at least as impactful as MJ was. Then there's Kobe Bean Bryant. There's nothing I can say that hasn't already been said!
If LeBron was actually amazing everyone would be tuning in but Jordan still holds record for most viewers when less people were on the planet bc everyone knew they're watching something special
Facts
MJ THE GOAT.
Change the podcast name to “wedon’tfuckwithBronsports” at this point 😂😂😂😂
No
@ why not? The whole panel loves him especially the emotional opinionated women on there that don’t know nun bout no hoops AT ALL
No LeBron no 🍲
To me there are three areas for the B ball GOAT in no order and MJ beats your favorite player in all three or two of the three areas.
Winning Championships
Overall Stats
Eye test/Game looks better
Old school J fan and Chicago resident. When did the pupil pass the teacher? J taught Kobe the way the game should be played and then some but not everything. Kobe copied moves from day one but J entered league his own man. Its true he used Dr J's reverse layup but J perfected. The rest of his game was unlike any player before him. That's why Magic is my second GOAT because he was the first big point guard ever to dominate his position and more importantly his will to win reminds me of J
Mel’s most deluded callers GOAT list. They have the greatest delusions of all time.
1. Guillermo
2. Young Disciple
3. Worldbreaker
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@ You should have that on the channel.
How can a copy be better than the original. The orginal Mona Lisa is worth more and better than a copy.
Marbury said he played against derrick harper lol and did he forget lebron played his era too avg 30 back then also so what are we talking about...
It's not fake James is in the #50 to #75 area of greats! To many crap records to even ever have been considered top 25! Turnovers, missed shots, travling (refs) know call! know D!!! 6 8 260 lbs. an avg 7 boards a game when the lanes empty half the time! Pathetic!!!
The question should be Who did Kobe Compete with vs the others, Kobe Bryant competed at a high level with people like Tim Duncan Kobe Bryant infact is the only player with a Winning Record against Tim Duncan in the play offs and LeBron has lost to Tim Duncan in the finals 2 times and 1 of those times he got blown out with Dwade Bosh Ray Allen in his arsenal but sadly Many Ginobli coming off the bench with little patty mills and a freshman defender Kawhi with a old Tim Duncan was enough to blowout the goat. Also who was pay Gasol before Kobe, did he ever get to the playoffs before Kobe? Would you pick Gasol over Pippen or Denise Rodman ? ? Would you pick metta world peace over Rodman or Pippen? We have to compare and contrast and put into context, magic and bird was out of their prime when Jordan came into their prime but people still use them to make a case for Jordan.
@imrazali6005 the level of competition that kobe faced and beat is unmatched in league history and he beat that competition with less help than anybody. 86% of all his playoff opponents won 50+ games that's unheard of in any team sport. The amount of elite defensive wing players he faced night in and night out while facing advanced defensive schemes is crazy. In contrast to Jordan playing in a isolation era against average to below average defensive wing players on most nights. That's BBQ chicken for Jordan. The closes thing Jordan faced to what kobe kobe faced was the 1996 sonics. That season the sonics played the most illegal zone defense in league history and got called for the most illegal defensive calls in league history, the Bulls complained that series that the sonics were getting away with playing illegal zone, it's well documented. Now add one of the greatest defensive guards all time in Gary Payton and you have what kobe faced almost every single night. The outcome was Jordan having his worst playoff performance of his nba career. And why he pleaded with the committee and the league meetings in 02 to not allow zone, he stated if he had to face zone defenses then he wouldn't have had the career he did. The evidence *1996 NBA FINALS*
Iverson was better than Wade on offence and defence? Lol.
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Now position wise! Jordan and Kobe are guards! Put Lebron up at Karl Molone, or Ben Wallace those men of that size and power that played the same position as Lebron compare them to him who is better! I would even put Ron Artest against lebron on working the floor who is better then! Kobe walked the floor onto NBA at 16yrs old! Who can do that! Lebron didn't he was 18 Kobe was 16yrs old.
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People who know basketball know that's what Bron camp is doing it's to Late you played to long you suppose to have these stats and his shooting is still weak it's not on the real shooters level because he just now have a Lil shot it's still a weak shot he has you can't depend on his shot that's why he still doesn't want to take that last shot when they need it the same Ole Bron it's nothing different about him and his game you can stop his progress if you stop him from dribbling he's stuck just look at his game no bag just the facts!!
People have to understand how hard it is and how much your body breaks down, how focused you have to be to 3 peat even one time like Kobe and Shaq led teams, Jordan did it twice, that alone should make him the undisputed GOAT
Just to add to Lebron's position on the goat list. At small forward , which supposedly is Lebron's position, who is more polished and complete there. Why Larry Bird of course. So wherever you rank Bird is Lebron not after him?
Cap the number of 3's taken at 20.
Kobe probably wouldn't win any rings on the same team with Scottie pippen. Kobe might have a game similar to Mike but Kobe is not Michael Jordan and he doesn't have the charisma of Michael Jordan so he can't massage the ego of Scottie pippen to keep him engaged...
This is the one topic I think about so much especially when people compared Kobe Bryant to Michael Jordan because you can't just insert another guy because his game is similar and expect the result to be the same... Michael Jordan did a lot to shield Scottie pippen from the media and take on the tough questions so his teammates didn't have to answer them. There were times when the media wanted to interview Scottie pippen but Michael Jordan would pull him away and say no let's go. I don't believe Kobe Bryant would do those things for Scottie pippen and Michael Jordan knows you have to throw a dog a bone and kobe ain't throwing a dog any bones! You have to go get that bone for yourself when you're on the team with Kobe Bryant...
Kobe Bryant is a victim of his own intelligence and life circumstances growing up as a loner in italy. He didn't socialize like Michael Jordan did growing up so he has a tendency to alienate teammates where Michael Jordan is able to ingratiate himself with teammates and for a guy like Scottie pippen that's going to make all the difference. This is why Michael Jordan praised Scottie pippen in the media so much, because he knew Scottie pippen needed to hear those things come from the best player on the team...
Thank you for speaking the truth here. Lebrone inability to play in ANY system is also what makes him limited. He has never really had a hall of fame coach " where he can actually shut his mouth and listen to". Every coach he's had Since he's entered the league has been second to "to him," which is he's played with so many coaches AND got many of the FIRED! He's " the gufted savant how can it be his fault? ." But we have to ask this question... . How can a" gifted savant" win lesser championchips, play on more teams and play with more all-star players than everyone else and still be called the greatest ever ? Ridiculous! ? Lastely, this backwards notion that jordan can be " the greatest to ever do it and lebron to be called the most complete individual player of all time is more BS!" To talk abt this dude is to "not deal with reality ! "
What hurts Kobe was he was a Robbin to Shaq during the prime of his winning. I don't like how Lebron got to greatest but MJ nor Lebron were every Robbins. Robbin can not be the Batman/GOAT.
The influence of - and obsession with - analytics has ruined the game.
Legit question, when LeBron is done and gone, hopefully sooner than later. What is the direction the league will take? Hit a soft recently and start mvmg the game back to where it was, keeping it the same, or only have 41 games per season to eliminate load management. 😢. Whatever it is, I just hope there are to try and reboot to the 90s or 2000s season.
@@hotpiegravy2347 the league gotta do a hard reboot and reset. They have to build the league around GREAT basketball like the 90s & early 2000s. Let us see great competition again.
@@Mandownsports I sure hope so.
@@hotpiegravy2347 well, that's what they should do but I don't think they will. What I actually think they will do is keep changing rules and adding more gimmicks like a new allstar format and the in season tournament and a new playoff format to pretend they trying to create a buzz but they are really just finding new ways to monetize a new idea with their sponsors. The NBA will no longer be a basketball league but instead be a entertainment league that the owners, Vegas, Amazon and politicians can use as a vehicle to drain money from its fans, push agendas, and capture the minds of the younger generation
Kobe Magic Bird Kareem Russel Robinson Akeem Duncan Oscar Isaiah Barkley havelchick
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Kobe bryant was never on par with young athletic mj, you bean bryant stans don't understand this, bean is definitely better than lebron tho
The WNBA is the better product. It's basketball 🏀
Michael by himself as far as impact GOAT and then everyone else.
Watch Dr J and MJ highlights/game and lets talk
1-3 w.e order MJ, Kareem, Bill.. 4-6 Kobe, LeBron, Magic.. 7-9 Tim, Shaq, Wilt.. 10-12 Curry, Bird, Dr.J
Lebron ahead of Magic, Bird, J? Lmao
Mike would not do well with Lebron teams, Jordan would struggle because he need another primary ball handler and defender. Jordan would struggle because he would have to do it all, like Lebron has struggled from doing it all.
Which lebron team are you referring to ...?
Basically any former or current players that agree with your narrative is right joke 🤡🤦♂️
Facts bro he can't talk about Kobe without narratives and myths
I look to see what kinda decisions they make. You seen some of these dudes ball hogging when they ain’t the one. The whole team is out of sync, and he think he the gas to the car when he the sugar in the tank. Just messing everything up because he wanna shine. Jordan to me is number 1, Kobe 2 or 1A, Jordan set the precedent and didn’t allow his teams to lose 3 straight for 8 years…nobody can say that. It’s because if they were in danger of losing 3 in a row he would take over, and they’d win. No one can say that. And idk if ppl understand what that really means. He originated "I will not lose" before Jay Z lol. I think like the one caller was talking bout putting Jordan with Lebron, it wouldn’t happen. Jordan would dip out, "I’m retiring because f*ck Lebron." And yeah you have to get players that are designed for Lebron to play with, I think Jordan would be able to fit in with whoever. Long comment, my bad. Y’all the GOAT on here for basketball talk lol.
I haven't respected LeBron ever since his decision to join wade n bosh in miami stacking the deck ass ninjas him n wade was cheaters i grew up watching every team having one superstar to build around i dont ever remember the best player lebron n the 3rd best player wade along with a top 10 player bosh team up in the 80s, 90s n even 2000s til i saw lebron/wade then 6 years player we had the 2nd n 3rd curry/kd best players team up with a top 20 sg,klay its a shame
@@CPote-ue3hf yeah it's very hard to