Full restoration of an Indian (??!) watch!
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- Опубликовано: 24 ноя 2023
- Today we are restoring a most unusual watch; an HTM Janata from the 1970s. It has seen better days (haven't we all) and isn't really a watch that has enough value for our efforts, but it's still fun to see what an Indian watch looks like!
Join Stian for a full restoration and service of this old watch as we delve into the history of HMT as a company and the future of watchmaking! As always there will be a few detours and completely unrelated tangents...
With subtitles in your language!
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bit.ly/468Bfbk Rodico
bit.ly/3J8mX0u Polywatch
bit.ly/42wAZQf Presto tools
bit.ly/3J6UND7 Bergeon tools
bit.ly/3X21iwL Horotec tools
bit.ly/3X2xiAU Chinese made watchmaking tools
bit.ly/3qFqgWk Digital microscope
bit.ly/3CkZt4f Ultrasonic cleaner
bit.ly/3qAAPtX Ultrasonic cleaning solution
bit.ly/43V9HEr Denture cleaning tablet
bit.ly/3X1rpUl Chinese “Horia style” jeweling tool
bit.ly/3P5EQR7 Demagnetizer
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Развлечения
Restorations like this one are why I love to watch these videos. I was a hobbyist and loved the thrill of buying old non-runners on eBay and servicing them back to a running condition. Unfortunately, I now need to take a medication that makes my hands tremor just enough that I had to give it up. This movement is a simple one but you did a fantastic job on it and the case. I love it that it lives and runs again. I really enjoy your videos. It eases the loss of being able to do this a bit.
Glad you like them and sorry to hear that 😔I'll keep the videos coming, my friend 👍
To fill in some history on your otherwise excellent video, the Citizen movement in question that was licensed to HMT was the 0201. When it was first licensed in 1961, it was considered a thourougly modern design, having only been released by Citizen the year prior. Citizen wasn't the first choice to partner with HMT. Both the Swiss and Seiko were approached before them and both pretty much just laughed at the idea that India could mass-produce wristwatches. Unfortunately for them, Citizen were the ones who responded in order to capture a larger market share in South Asia against Seiko. A mistake that Seiko would eventually realize and rectify with their Allwyn series for the Indian market. The key reasons why the 0201 was selected for licensing out of Citizen's catalog at the time was because it was a simple, good quality movement that was both cheap to produce and could go an extremely long time without a service. Exactly what the Soviet Union did with the French Lip R26 to remake it as the ZiM 2602 as the USSR's own people's watch some 15 years prior. A caliber I believe you've also worked on!
The result of the HMT-Citizen deal, the HMT 020, is really just a Citizen 0201 with simpler finishing. The 0231, in contrast, was introduced in 1975 for the reason of simplifing mass production and lasted all the way until 2016. Roughly 90% of the component parts between an HMT 020 and 0231 movement are interchangable. As such, I believe you have an HMT 0231 with a 020 main bridge. Not uncommon in these watches.
HMT in addition to making wristwatches, also produced tractors and (as the name implies) machine tools. While the wristwatch division was formally shut down in 2016 by the Indian government, there has been a successful movement to revitalize the HMT watches division. It is now possible to buy a new HMT watch even now in 2023, but only if you're in India when you do it.
Nowadays, HMTs are by far the biggest bargain in vintage watches. A servicable mechanical movement with a proven design, 17 jewels, shock protected balance, an actual glycodur balance wheel, full stainless steel construction, a screw-down caseback, and an enviable history. All for roughly $20 USD. While not the best watches ever made, they are excellent for practicing servicing work on and regular wear. Such as the late-70s HMT Deepak on the factory HMT-branded stainless steel bracelet I happened to be wearing when this video appeared in my recommendations! Coincidence?
Thanks for sharing your excellent insights!
@@VintageWatchServices If I may add, HMT watches are often found in "Mumbai special" form with different or painted dials, hands and cases. In the case of HMT watches, I find it is not so bad thing and it makes it an exception of a rule. Watches were expensive thing in 60's and 70's and watchmakers had to "manage" to fix it using parts from different watches. Many of the watches on sale today are such, there are many new dials and cases, but I believe those are not Chinese, but local-made parts that reflect that tradition of repair.
Also, the original Citizen movement is a basic one from the family that contains precision movements as the one found in Citizen "Homer", with date, hack etc. IIRC, even the balance is the same. So if you are fixing one and need the balance, try one from HMT first!
great info, thanks
@@ddsfard You're quite welcome!
I find myself skipping a Rolex ad to view a video on an Indian watch; much more interesting! Now I want one for my collection, but perhaps not one from the 1970's.
😁👍
The main reason I don't skip parts of your video is because I enjoy your stories about the watch industry.
😊👍
Great job. Watching from India...I'm 26 years old and i have total 7 hmt watches ☺️
The watch looks beautiful. This watch is HMT one of the most popular one. This particular model is has a great dial, and collectible.
Never expected to see a HMT Watch here, I own three HMTs one is a pilots watch really cute when compared to my Laco almost half the size of it. Again a great video, many thanks for sharing.
I have an early HMT Pilot that I have owned for decades. I still enjoy wearing it occasionally. It's the perfect size for my smallish wrist.
Another Indian watch to look out for is called Allwyn they were made in the seventies and eighties and they used seiko 6319A movement's in them I’ve got one in the que for a little restoration project and only cost a few £s, another nice informative video mate thanks for keeping us entertained. 🙏😉🍻👌
incredibly clean looking mechanism for a 50 year old watch. The condition of the gasket, case, and crystal were about the only evidence of age.
I love the brief feature's display before you show the watch on your wrist. Not displays in the wild (beach, nightclub, or nightstand/intimate) but on the bench. The Rodico blob prop tickled my sense of mischief. Love your videos when they appear.
Thanks so much 😊
Think of the years of wear this watch has been thru. Inexpensive but used perhaps daily for decades. Thanks as always for your videos.
Excellent! You brought this watch back to life for another 50 years!
I love that noise when you drop the case into the ultrasonic cleaner jar - it reminds me of a movie I saw back in the early 1970s to do with a submarine and that underwater echo takes me back many years.
Great video, I've got one of the reissue Kohinoors in a kinda Tiffany Blue / Nardo Grey kind of colour. Great little watch and fairly unique.
I appreciate seeing the before and after shots. Nice work on the case!
Watching this lovely video while wearing my own HMT. 😊
HMT actually did introduce quartz and analog-digital watches to the Indian market earlier than Titan but they were priced higher than their mechanical models and so sales volumes were low. As a result, HMT decided to re-focus on mechanical movements. Subsequently we see improved automatic calibers introduced and even one with a pointer date complication.
It’s awesome to see someone treating one of these HMT watches with the respect it deserves. The end result looks great.
I have a few of these hmt watches in my modest collection. They are okay, and getting them doesn't break the bank. The quality varies a lot, though.
The watches from HMT with the broad arrow are genuine military .🤗🤗
Always enjoyable watching you do this❤👍🏿👍🏼
Love the Longines strap.
As a HMT collector myself
I thank you for restoring this beautiful watch.🎉❤
Love the strap!
Hey Stion, how you struck with this beauty. HMT is indias first mechanical watch brand setup by Indian government, the movement was developed in collaboration with Citizen, it is emotion for us. With tough competition and available of quartz watches HMT started making losses and it was shut down. HMT kohinoor, janta, pilot , himalya these are iconic watches. Thanks for fixing it.
Thanks for watching!
*As always, a great job. For a basic movement, it looks as if it would last decades with regular servicing.* *_The design of the case screams "1970s" at high volume!_*
It does! 😂
Very nice!
I'd love to wear that watch...
I've bought a couple of HMT watches off the ebay and they're actually quite good. Especially when they're only around $30.00 AUD each👍👍
Bought my girlfriend one from ebay for around that same price. I liked hers so much that I have one coming for myself. And I normally wear my IWC. These watches are a steal!
I am brand new to watch repair as a hobby and had found a citizen watch with a citizen homer 0201 inside off ebay for $30, its a lot of fun watching along to this and seeing the manufacturing differences between the citizen and the hmt, those indians picked a good movement to license manufacture
oh, and I'm 27!
Very cool!
Janata means public, i.e. watch called public for the public. Cheap and quite ok. I had a later model HMT manual wind watch while studying in India. I lost it unfortunately. Your knowledge of India is really very good.
Wonderful restoration result. Regulated to a deviation of 0 seconds per day!
Great video! Very informative and easy to follow. I love the watch, very simple and yet very nice looking watch. And your choice of band was spot on. Keep up the great work, we all enjoy them!
Nice job, Stian. Somebody made that watch, and now they live on!
I'm almost positive that this watch is now better than new. Great job.
Another restoration well done. The polished edge and the watch band really compliment the overall finish. Thank you.
An impressive transformation!
A very enjoyable video with superb photography!
Great job. Beautiful watch!
It turned out beautiful and nicely strapped.
Great work as usual, You are a master and great teacher. Not that I repair watches. I have to pay for the servicing of the watches I buy, and wear.
Thanks for watching! 😊
Stian, are you using a new lens? The shots of lubricating the escape wheel and seating the balance are brilliant . .. and not a nose hair in sight. Stay well.
Yep, trying out a microscope camera :=
Well done.@@VintageWatchServices
Absolute awesome restoration great job done. Btw HMT rocks. .
That's a very smart looking watch. And a cool story of a brand I didn't know much about. Oviously love the luxury stuff you do, but vids like these are very interesting too. Thanks!
Enjoyed every minute.
Great work as usual and thanks for treating this simple, cheap watch with the same care and attention you give to the high end stuff. It's also nice to see a video on Indian watches that isn't about frankenwatches bought by the unwary.
Excellent work! Your videos are always a pleasure to watch!
I noticed that the gasket you fitted at the end of the video was not correct. You fitted it on the caseback under the movement spring (28:00), but really it should have been fitted on the caseback on the outside of the thread to prevent the ingress of moisture and contaminants (6:20), or have I miss seen this?
Best Regards from the UK!
Hello Tony, thanks for watching! You are completely correct, I put the case back gasket in the wrong place 😁
Thanks for the good time, btw, I think the Tata competitor you mentioned is Titan watches, probably inferior to HMT.
Another wonderful job my friend. 😁👍 very enjoyable watch.
Hallo Stian,
Vielen Dank für dieses wunderbare Filmchen. Ich liebe deine sanfte Wiederherstellung alter Uhren und angenehme Präsentation deiner Arbeitsschritte. Mach bitte weiter so!
Viele Grüße von der Nordsee!
Vielen Dank!
For amateurs wanting to use fix-o-drop but not wanting the eye-watering price of the bottle used for storage and application, the Moebius 8981 Fix-O-Drop 10 mL bottle already comes with a mesh screen in the bottle neck thus eliminating the need for a specialty bottle.
Nice work Stian. And on a piece from the sub-continent, no less! 👍
Hi Stian, wonderfully interested my friend, thoroughly enjoyed this one, best wishes to you and yours
Thanks Ralfy, the same to you, mate 😊
Superb watch with low cost to purchase to everyone, still it is available in between 30 to 35 dollars in second hand. Nice video and explanation. Jai Bharat
Great work!
Thanks!
The HMT watches were built with technical support and collaboration of Citizen, Japan.
This movement reminds me of early Seiko movements for the Marvel which i believe this Citizen and Seiko are derived from the ETA 1080.?? Great restoration as always
Best brushing i have seen on a restoration the case looks new
Thanks, David! 😊
I don't think the brand-new watch looked (nor ran) as good as this one after your fantastic restoration!
😊👍
I'm very impressed with how consistently you post especially compared to other watch repair channels, I'm looking at you Marshal and Nekkid. Keep up the great work.
Thx :)
Beautiful work - thanks for putting this video together.. reminds me the childhood days when people were wearing these in the hay days of HMT.. HMT Kohinoor Saffron is a good watch and similar to Janata. thanks much!
Wonderfully Well Done..!!
Many thanks!
I’ve got a couple ‘made in India’ watches, in my eclectic collection. Inexpensive. Keep time well.
Wow! HMT's are one of the few brands I've been looking at this past couple weeks because they are obtainable as somebody just getting started. Super helpful video!
Can I buy this one from you? Please 😂 I know that's one of my more out there questions, but that would be totally rad!
Thanks again Stian!
Very much agree. HMT's watch of the people stayed true to its purpose by being both solid quality and affordable even today. I would also recommend the USSR's people's watch done 15 years beforehand, the ZiM 2602, for much the same reason.
@@jakekaywell5972 awesome, thanks for the ideas! I'll soak up as much as I can. 😎
Hello Forest, I'll likely do a giveaway for this one but my father in-law has first dibs...
@@VintageWatchServices thanks Stain, I figured it would go to family or friends, but I would for sure be interested if not. My name's Joe, BTW. Just a regular one 🤙
Beautiful
Thank you!
Nice job makes it pop even for a cheap movement
I keep seeing HMT-watches on ebay and thinking of adding one to my collection. After this video this could indeed happen soon. Thanks for sharing videos about more affordable curiosities and for treating them with the same respect as the more expensive ones!
I couldn't make out Your error, yet. Did You put in the ratchet the wrong way around?
Very much agree. HMT's watch of the people stayed true to its purpose by being both solid quality and affordable even today. I would also recommend the USSR's people's watch done 15 years beforehand, the ZiM 2602, for much the same reason.
Thanks Jochen :) I'll reveal the error shortly!
Brilliant.
Thanks, Mick!
My favorite brand (despite having many other vintage seikos and swiss watches). I have quite a few. They are classic and beautiful, and there were many hundreds if not thousands of variants. They were made to bring a nice looking watch to an average working man, and that appeals to me quite a bit. Maybe somewhat akin to old timexes, but with a better movement.
Your Timex comparison isn't really accurate. Yes, Timexes were made to be affordable, but they were very obviously built down to a price. A number of corners were cut, not just in finishing but also in how their movements fundamentally worked. Pin-pallet, usually jeweless movements out of stamped sheet metal were the result. In addition, they were marketed as being something a lot more desirable than they really were. The MVMT of yesteryear.
Rather, HMT compares well with ZiM, the Soviet Union's people's watch. Both state-owned companies whos primary concern wasn't watchmaking. With no prior watchmaking experience, both licensed a caliber design from a well-established foreign watchmaker and produced it FOREVER in order to provide a basic, but still very good quality watch for their respective peoples. Decent number of jewels, an actual glycodur balance, and constructed in such a way that either an HMT or ZiM can be actually serviced. Unlike Timex pin-pallets, it bears repeating.
I have an HMT Chirag. Same movement. Different case. Yes, the model name is the same as my name. They're also extremely cheap. A brand new one costs around €33
HMT Janata with a longines strap! That is some upgrading!😂
I love you HMT Watch I am HMT lover
😁👍
I ordered one on their official website. My cousin will bring it for me from India, I wish it was available globally.
Meanwhile I'm watching every video about HMT😅
HMT started manufacturing watches again after 6 years of closure.
I love it Stian! The issue, not sure, was it the click? The nib the wrong side of the click spring! It wasn’t the setting lever screw,, which is a classic forget, but it doesn’t have one. What was the dog bone shaped spring thing under the setting lever? Regarding mainspring winders, what’s the trick to getting T shaped ends in to the winder and the T into the barrel? I can’t get them in the winder, but it takes me 1/2hr to get it in the winder by hand! Ta ta!
Thanks, Boyd! The issue was that I switched the ratchet wheel and crown wheel screws :)
It's easy enough to get the T-end into the mainspring winder, you simply pull the arbor handle out a millimeter or so to give the T-end space to slip in. Placing the T into the slot in the drum is tricky and I don't have a perfect solution for it. I try to place it close enough and the gently move it into place with a small screwdriver blade against the T.
@@VintageWatchServices Thanks Stian, I need more practice!
Ha, how timely! I just bought a couple of Citizen 1802’s from India to practice with!
Lovely video again, and a nice and different daily watch. Forøvrig var lyden av delene i elma-glasset superb. Minner klart om Arne Nordheim.
😂👍
Dear Stian, Thank you so much for this wonderful video. It is so much more satisfying than watching another Rolex (🤪🤪) or Tudor (🤪) restoration because it encapsulates another time, another history and another part of the world. And this is why I think you are the by far the best watch restorer on RUclips: you tell us stories, and that is what counts - 👍👌👏! Again: thank you.
Thanks so much, Yves, I really appreciate that 😊
Sir i am from India......hmt is a legend brand here.....they not only sell watches but they manufacture agricultural, defence products too.
ruclips.net/video/DOkz_5usHKY/видео.htmlsi=xWxcp9RteCKFmgu_
watch amazing and beautiful HMT watch review
Beautiful, no job too small 🙏🏻👌🏻😎
You did not install the the set lever button before installing the barrel bridge. I started on simple Russian made Poljot watches (2609 movements) and learned much from them. I have seen these HMT watches as "Pilot" models. They sometimes use FHF movements too.
I actually switched the screws for the ratchet and crown wheels... AND I put the case back gasket in the wrong place 😂
Awesome video ! Is there any other watch manufactures in India ?
Thanks! Yes, the biggest one is Titan, partially owned by the Tata group
I myself being a vintage collector have 62 of them
I have an HMT I bought many years back. Wore it a lot but I may have lost it or tossed it. Don't remember. I got another on ebay. It ran great but then I left it in my drawer for a few years. And checking it now it doesn't work. It's tightened on the spring but barely runs and stops in less than a minute. So me, having no experience or proper tools just opened it. And also realizing I have no lube for watches. All I did end up doing was soak a q-tip in lighter fluid and dapped it around the main spring barrel thinking it was old lube gumming it up. Now it works! Don't know how bad that is long term. But whatever. It's a cheap watch anyways. Plus I don't want to get deep into it.
Nice videoooo!! 📖
Thanks! 😊
I think that it deserves a 1970's metal bracelet to set it off. 😁
😁👍
Turning the proverbial pig into a unicorn!!!
Very, very nice. I own six HMTs which I imported from India about 10-13 years ago. Pity you didn't show how to fix the beat error. When I looked at the movement, the lever for such an adjustment appears to be missing. It's just curiosity; mine all run great.
Thanks for watching! Yes, this movement has a fixed stud holder thus the beat error has to be adjusted manually.
It always makes me wonder why 17 jewels... Surely there should be a jewel at each end of a wheel arbor making the total an even number? 🤔 However, I then thought of the jewel on the balance that engages with the pallet fork. 💡
👌
The impulse jewel. I often forget to count that one also!
Hi Stian, i always enjoy watching your videos mate, totaly agree with getting watches like this or Russian, witch i did i have a lovely collection now, Japanese, Russian, Chinese, Swiss and a British stop clock which i just fixed, that was fun, great video Stian cheers. Dave from UK
Very much agree. HMT's watch of the people stayed true to its purpose by being both solid quality and affordable even today. I would also recommend the USSR's people's watch done 15 years beforehand, the ZiM 2602, for much the same reason.
Thanks, Dave!
Fascinating video, as always, but that crystal would have cleaned up much better with a little sandpaper and rubbing compound...
Wasn't that what I did then? 🤔
@@VintageWatchServices Lots of scratches and hazing still visible in the "after" shots.
Was Ta - Ta a deliberate pun?! You won't fit an Indian truck in your workshop!
Awesome watch, to me, history and knowledge betters pure cash. I'd be proud to have that on my wrist.
Keep up the good work.
I was actually thinking about that when I said it!
Nice turtle like case.
Great restoration 🙂👍
Do you sell this watch?
Unfortunately not, I gave it to my father in-law :)
The Longines leather strap is more expensive than the watch.
Just my opinion, but that is a pleasantly handsome movement for the price. Case & dial look purty durn good too, at the end.
As for the "dying profession" angle, I think oh no, not even close. Maybe more for watches than clocks... but e.g. the only clock repair in my area is typically backed up six months and more, and we don't know what will happen when he retires. IMO it will become a more valued talent as fine watches and clocks find more enthusiasts, and fewer people who can service and tweak them just right. The better items were built to last centuries, and many owners believe in making that happen.
Stian, you said HTM had a working agreement with Seiko. Did Seiko supply all the watch parts and movements? If they did so, did HTM make the face and cases for the watches and installed what Seiko supplied them? Or did Seiko send HTM all the watch parts and HTM actually made the entire watch? As always, I thoroughly appreciate your response and enjoy your videos immensely. I hope you and yours are healthy and at peace and cheers from this old retired coot living the dream in Tennessee.
The company is HMT. Hindustan Machine Tools. No agreement was made between HMT and Seiko, rather Citizen. Citizen supplied the blueprints, tooling, and technical training to produce the Citizen 0201 as the HMT 020 in India. Everything in an HMT watch, including the movement, is made in-house.
Hello Robert, as the other commenter noted, it was Citizen that HMT worked with and licensed movements from. The Indian government did in fact reach out to multiple manufacturers but it was only Citizen that was interested in working with them. That of course turned out to be a pretty darn good decision by Citizen and conversely very short-sighted by the other manufacturers.
Initially HMT only made the simpler parts such as bridges, plates and screws and received stock from Citizen for things like the hairspring and jewels, but eventually HMT also started making those themselves. They would thus in Swiss speak be termed a manufacture at that point :) I'm not sure how long that took but would assume at least a decade after 1961.
@@VintageWatchServices I don't know why I said Seiko and not Citizen but I really appreciate the responses Stian. Like I've commented before Stian, the history lessons in your videos is one of my favorite sections.😊👍
@@jakekaywell5972 Thanks for the info Jake
So where can one get a full illustration of a movement of a particular make and model in order to aid in putting back together?
I think the best online repository is at watchguy.co.uk but even that one probably covers only 10% of the watches you might find...
Very nice restoration but pray tell what was the error you made during assembly ?thanks
I swapped the screws for the ratchet and crown wheels AND I put the case back gasket in the wrong place 🤔
Yes noticed the back gasket but not the swapped screws thought they were both left hand thread.
Great video! What are the names of wheel's for polishing the watch case, first stage, second stage etc? Thanks
Thanks! I use a Boplas wheel for taking out scratches and then cambric wheels for mirror polish
@@VintageWatchServices what grit should be used for the first stage of removing scratches? I was thinking of buying artifex wheels, I'm not able to get boplas. Thanks
HMT is an emotion for us Indians 😍😍😍
😊👍
Is there any other watch brand in India ? Regards from Brazil...
@@dylantosta4218Titan. Owned by Tata group