Bernhard Goetz "Subway Vigilante" | Mental Health & Personality
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- Опубликовано: 6 сен 2024
- This video answers the questions: Can I analyze the1984 New York subway shooting that was covered on the Netflix special trial by media?
In this incident, four African-American men were shot by a Caucasian man, Bernhard Goetz. Afterward, Goetz is called the Subway vigilante, and is characterized by some as a villain and by others as a hero as people vigorously debate over issues like crime, self-defense, and race.
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American Psychiatric Association. (2013). Diagnostic and statistical manual of mental disorders (5th ed.). Arlington, VA: Author.
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“After the shooting, the passengers moved even more vigorously to the other side of the car”
🤣 Like, why didn't they haul ass to another train car?
Lol
All but 2 ladies frozen i fear who later got blamed by Goetz. Sometimes the anonymity of old age is no advantage.
I'll guess that Goetz personality came in focus because of his trying to be a public figure(politician, nature advocate). But I also think, that since he definitely was defending himself, although it seems very quick to jump to it being life or death, considering there didn't seem to be a planned act of violence. Yet any person trained in firearms use is told if you use it. Do not let the chance of it be taken away from you occur. Though in that I don't think he was caring whether or not nearby people were going to get hurt. Noting in this, Goetz statement of being tired of being afraid what's suppose to be open to general public use( paying the toll).
To me it seems he was hoping it would happen, and risk whatever happened after( should it be he lived, like a math calculation).
It was never brought out whether it was a self appointing, ever of a group, intent on doing it( vigilante( as lone hero), setting it for their case( as Guardian Angels did), league of justice type org), or whatever someone might think up, on stuff considering conspiracy angles in so much entertainment.
I think it fits he was a frustrated wannabe and was lucky he lived( lives).?
For me, this story made the news, but it was long forgotten. I guess in his way, he was - the Batman- one time out. But I think as people know, Batman is breaking the law too. It's criminal vs criminal, not good guy vs bad guy.
Thank you. Good luck.
Class in the U.K. you can’t even get out of the car till a stop xxx
Sexually assaulting a pregnant woman?? Oh My God!
When this case happened, I was young. But studying it later, I felt the fact he'd tried to follow the law to get his license to carry shows he was only intent on not becoming a victim again. And as a former victim, I can't blame him one bit.
“Sometimes the media painted them as innocent angels like they were taking the subway to their volunteer positions at a homeless shelter having just left choir practice. The reality is they were on their way to commit a felony and decided to commit another felony on the trip. They couldn’t even wait to commit the felony they intended to commit.” HAHAHAHAHAHA Quotes like these are why I 💜 Dr Grande’s channel. This analysis blew me out of the water. Totally spot on. I’ve lived in NYC my whole life and the subway is pretty much always an unpleasant experience, but the 1980s and even early 1990s was off the charts bad. My dad got jumped 3 times by these same type of criminals back then, but luckily he was young and strong enough to fight them off (without a gun thankfully or else he might have become Bernie Goetz 2.0). This vid hits close to home and is also infused with such great humor. Thank you!
The problem was not his self defense. The issue was the excessive force he used after shooting them.
My dad says he would purposefully make himself look crazy to drive away these types of criminals.
@@Lion_Hamza I got no sympathy for them. If you plan to rob someone and are hurt or killed it's your fault. You created the situation, you caused the violence. You violated their solidarity. You can't expect someone who is in shock and adrenaline to not use 'excessive force' when saving his life. Also they have no problem intimidating one man as 4, yet somehow 1 man shooting them is excessive. You dont know what people are capable of, if they have ptsd, if they have a gun, when you threaten and try to rob someone you created the situation and anything that happens is your fault. I'm tired of this victim mentality, a gang robs a man, he defends himself, but because they're black they're victims of him somehow.
@@simonemurray1345 I agree. Well said.
@@simonemurray1345 4 against 1. All 4 armed with white tools.
Your sarcasm and humour paired with your vocabulary is truly stimulating.
Being a squirrel advocate does not make one nuts.
Having nuts as advocate a doctor does not make.
HA! *Rimshot*
*KNEESLAP*
Bernie is a national treasure. His act of self defense, outstanding marksmanship, and protecting the public from thugs, should be awarded with a presidential Medal of Freedom.
I know Mr. Goetz personally through an old job. I knew him as a vegetarian, progressive libertarian who treated everyone with respect. He was a little odd, but it's NYC, that's life.
So those four hood r ats from the Bronx acting in a destructive manner
Very good analysis. I worked with Bernie who is an electrical engineer in the 1990's. He explained to me what he was thinking at the time. He was worried that all the crooks would "survive" in a Darwinist sense, and that he would be eliminated by them as "unfit" in a Darwinist sense. A young man who then worked with me as well explained that at the time of the Bernie Goetz incident, he had just been mugged on the subway and received a life long scar on his forehead. He explained that crime went way down on the subway immediately after the Goetz incident because the muggers thought that there were vigilantes after them.
Stands to reason. We should do it now; start scarring the be- Jesus out of people who think they'll get away with doing crime; because stiff consequences will ensure governing our own actions. I was a Black youth throughout the 1970s. I was raised by good parents, and taught very well by them. I never wanted to bother anyone, or make people fear & think badly of me. I had good thoughts, and never pursued overt criminality; yet crime was all around me. We have to follow our own consciousness. Become the person we should really be. Not follow a narrative of what people think we should be.
I was living in the Bronx during those days. Bernard Goetz was lauded for standing up to crime and criminals. He acted properly and defended himself. I agreed then and I agree now.
He didnt do himself any favors after that
He should have stayed in hiding , dyed his hair black , grown a beard and put in contact lenses .
Historically, marijuana selling squirrel advocates has made up a large portion of the hipster population in NYC for at least the last 30 yrs.
Timely issue
@Lemon Meringue it's a little known favorite pastime of ny'ers🙂
😂😂
Having been a New Yorker in my twenties at the time, I can tell you it's impossible to over-estimate just how BIG a deal this was. Indeed, it was probably of primary importance in moving political attitudes toward "law and order," and changing the face of New York from a crime-ridden and decaying city to the rather low crime city it is now. And yes, Goetz' rather "nutty" demeanor confused and complicated the politics of the event.
I've been in that 1980s NYC and guess what, without racism in my heart I'm not afraid of the people I meet there even when they're rougher than me. I don't mean to downplay how rough some people are there, but how much do you think he's an "easy target" is because of what's in his heart?
In the previous mugging he was nearly beaten to death, that motivated him to get a gun and practice quick drawing. When he was approached on the subway his self training kicked in. That was from an interview he did with William Shatner.
Then maybe also some PTSD, as well.
@@kimberlygabaldon3260 I don't know who represented him but one of the first things that that attorney should have done was had him tested for PTSD, possibly resulting from the first assault he had experieced. He would have had the right to use that as his defense. PTSD can wreck a person's life if not recognized and treated early on, making it very difficult, if even possible, to treat later on.
@@alaskawoods9205 this is 1984, PTSD wasn't exactly well or widely understood at the time
@@napatora It may not have been as known to the public as it is now, but I'm almost certain it was known in psychological circles, with which attorneys in such cases would do well to consult--- and good ones do. The knowledge of "trauma" has already been with us, and one can reason, and argue in court, (whether or not PTSD was well-established on the books) that trauma was an important, relevant factor. After all, there was the "Twinkie defense" once, and I think it won out, did it not?
@@alaskawoods9205 That's a much taller order though, expecting the expert to not just convince the jury that that's what happened but that that's a legitimate concern as well. It's not that it hasn't been done before, but the defense lawyer would literally have to teach the courtroom what ptsd was, get them to a point where they believe that it's real, and then and only then convince them that it's important enough to be a deciding factor in the case.
"Four mugs got four slugs".
I say give the guy a medal. We need more people like him
cast Toby Mcguire to play Goetz in a biopic
A lot of fallout from this case for all involved...The young men did not change their criminal behavior and Goezt went bankrupt No winners here The takeaway? The squirrels are doing alright Thanks Dr G
When does an armed robbery ever have a winner? If the robber is successful? If the robber dies?
The Takeaway is Goetz should not have tried to be a celebrity
it definitely has a. winner. he didn't go to prison for it and he defended himself. also crime in the subways went down. Bernard is definitely the winner here and I'm glad for it
The young men thought Goetz was an easy target. And he seemed sick of being an easy target and relived when he was no longer seen as one.
“...advocates for squirrels” I did not see that one coming
"First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out-
Because I was not a socialist..."
Squirrels are a wonderful animal when you get to know them.
Alex North rats with bushy tails! Just kidding, I feed them with my bird feeder. 😹
😂😂😂🖒🐿
Goetz is actually a skilled re-habber of squirrels. I personally know people who work with wildlife who have followed some of his suggestions with success.
In the early 1980's my house was broken into. Even though I had no property of any value stolen, I felt like I had been violated. For the next 4 weekends l sat alone in the house with the lights out and windows open hoping the theif would return, I also had a shotgun. Obviously, no one showed up and I went on with my life, when the getz thing happened l felt vindicated, like he did it for me and people in my sistuation. Consequently, getz will always be a hero to me. He got back at the bad guys.
Low key chastising someone for not having a proper holster, is what I came here for.
Having a proper holster is key.
Jake Curtis Absolutely!!!!
Dr. Grande makes me bust up laughing!
Jake Curtis I mean, I don’t disagree, I just appreciate his ability to pick out that one thing and make the statement about it. The absurdity of that just gets me.
same
"He who steals, Goetz it."
Boo!
Be more funny!
This guy Goetz it.
I used to have that a t-shirt with that a picture of Bernie Goetz on it. Check out Dr. Grande's video on dark humor...
That would make a fantastic T shirt..
Oh let's face it! No matter what his personality was, he was a hero. He did the cops' jobs for them, and he did what a lot of us wish we coulda/woulda done at different times. I'd be in his corner any day, and frankly, I think it would be nice if there were more citizens like him and less cops attempting to uphold laws. Look at the cops getting away with everything unlawful and psychotic and how terrible things have gotten! But Goetz was scrutinized because he was a quirky Charlie Bronson? Please. If I'm being assaulted, I'm not going to care what the personality analysis of my rescuer is like.
What a messed up society.
Thank you Dr Grande. 👍🌹
Elisa. Good point,
"I'm liberating $5 from you" 😂
Omg, these cases aren't funny, but somehow you make'um funny
How about this..in a new city i bought weed... then the gang took it back and said "you're dimissed" hahahaha.. i left and a block away yelled i had $500 in my pocket what a bunch of idiots.. they chased me.. i got away. I have the antagonistic trait. I had to laugh.. you're dismissed.. heheheh.. its like they were mirroring their teacher...$20 was worth the story.
Agreed!
LOL
You're analysis is spot on ! I followed this in the news when it was current. It should have been an open and shut case in my opinion (no brainer). These four guys should have not been in the streets before the incident !
The most remarkable thing about this case is how reliably the over-arching theme absolutely countervails the sociological narrative which is upon us now. The criminals targeted Goetz because he looked as though he'd be easy to rob. The criminal justice system targeted him for prosecution and did not charge the criminals. They were criminals in character as their later lives confirmed. The criminal justice system is indeed biased, often on behalf of criminals. Currently, trial by headline is popular as evidenced by politicians undermining law enforcement even when there is clear-cut evidence that the police followed procedure.
And mayors can override video evidence that all can see as well as procedures they were elected to uphold.
HillbillyHell Body language is my first language.
GETZ STORY IS ONE THING.
IT CERTAINLY HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT'S GOING ON WITH THE POLICE NOW!
@@juneaskew6871 They need better training. A lot of these killings have to do with poor adrenaline control, I dont think theres malice on the police's end(in most cases).
@@austinlittle5407 agreed
What I do respect about Goetz is the fact that he stood up for his believes, no matter what. Even when he was asked in an interview in 2017 if he regrets the shootings, he just said, very clear: "No!". I would have no regret of defending myself in front of these kind of thugs. I really do believe that the jury took the right decision to not charge him with murder.
As about Trial by Media, I am not surprised that he is pictured as a bad guy by Netflix. The giant network is always one-sided, it makes you to believe that the minorities are never wrong, only the straight white men are to blame every time.
I have personally done a lot of research and interviewed many squirrels. The consensus is that any advocate will do. Or were they saying any acorn will do? Sometimes it's hard to tell. They tend to mumble while their cheeks are full of nuts.
Riveting information! I would love to hear more of these interviews. Continue on your fantastic work.
@@jadeemarie Currently working on a doctoral dissertation on Squirrelology. Soon my results will be published. 😉
If I'm lucky MGM will pick up the screenwriter version. Could be a blockbuster!
I was considering Andrew Lloyd Webber. But, thought it might translate better with MGM ala "The Eternal Triangle" for all you Tom Lehrer fans ("Oedipus Rex" who had a quite complex, complex). 😄😄
If he was an advocate for honey badgers, would he have been elected mayor due to offering a tough on crime stance the squirrels could not compete with? I mean if a honey badger is in trouble and calls you...
Oh wait, Tom Lehrer fans will roast me!! It's not from "Oedipus Rex" rather it's from "Lobachevsky". Haha Egg on my face. Let the roasting begin. 😂🤣😂🤣
"because few squirrels can count that high".... the only reason that wouldn't be a believable response, obviously.
that made me laugh harder than i expected.... have a good one, thanks again
Same, Dr Grande's dry humor has me rolling
I love squirrels and cannabis is great too.
@@The_Gallowglass i'm with you, my friend
IDK, squirrels are pretty smart...
@@riamazzarone3707 they can only find roughly 20% of the acorns they hide..... they're plenty smart, i agree, but they're just not very good with numbers (and, seemingly, hiding things)
Dr G. I have come to the point where I cannot drink anything while watching these videos. Your sense of humor just hits me, and inevitably I start choking. Keep up the good fight for mental health, and keep up the great analysis of stories for us all!
I was a kid in NYC in the early 90s, and it is very difficult for anyone who looks at the city today to imagine how bad it was around that time. Crime was rampant, and police did NOTHING. I remember being 7 years old and witnessing a pizza shop owner thrusting a butcher knife at a black guy who was trying to jump over the counter to rob the place. This happened IN THE DAYTIME ON A WEEKDAY, mind you! It's no wonder Giuliani swept the mayoral race with his "tough on crime" stance. Basically, if you've heard of how Morningside Park is, imagine most of Manhattan being that way. Because that's how it was.
I hate violent criminals. They would burn society down and laugh about it. I can't muster any sympathy for the victims here. They purely brought it on themselves. When you threaten a stranger, you are playing with some unknown variables.
@@belindapaul9828 That's one way to look at it I guess.
They should not have approached him. Never know about someone strange to you. People who do are playing Russian roulette. They needed to be working jobs to build character. Robbing people doesn't do that.
@@belindapaul9828 @@belindapaul9828 glad they were stopped. You're the kind of person who wants to wait for animals to become animals before they are stopped. I'd rather the animals not hurt anyone before they are stopped. They were carrying sharpened screw drivers and even admitted to fully intending to commit crimes, which they dif attempt. Glad they were shot. They even said they were robbing him. Come on. You know better than this.
@@belindapaul9828 you technically have the details right. BUT, look at the quality of lives between Goetz and the four criminals. The surviving thugs went on to prey on society, while Goetz sold weed once? You are acting like this is just punchcards where you can poke out a couple holes on both sides and say "it's even, both did some illegal stuff". This is a matter of human character. One was minding his own business and simply trying to get on with his day. The others were actively looking to abuse someone; on that day, and many days before and after. Not all illegal acts are the same due to intent and extenuating circumstances. I know you will never budge. I hope you have never been, or will be the victim of violent attack. It would seem with your aspy-like robotic analysis of the situation that you haven't. I have been. Don't think that those hooligans have the same value as a productive citizen. Goetz and the muggers were equal at birth, but diverted hugely by the time they met. Did you hear the terrible crimes the survivors went on to commit? They physically threatened him. That's enough to shoot. All it takes is one punch to the head to do serious permanent brain damage, especially when hitting the ground. I have an idea. Don't prey on people! You are defending people who would rape you and your kids and rip off everything you hold dear. Why on Earth you want to allow those types to roam around is alien to me.
@@belindapaul9828 They dehumanized themselves when they became predators. They threw away our crucial social contact and therefore nullified their claim to live with the rights we are afforded as law abiding productive citizens. A person whose life or safety is in immediate danger must make the decisions of judge jury and executioner because there is no one there to help and no time for the police to arrive before it's all over. You would allow yourself to be butchered or severely and permanently injured because you don't think you have the authority to decide you need to take whatever action is available to you to stop it? It's your life but that sounds pretty stupid.
Albert Camus, ( The Stranger) its a good read and pretty much explains how this case relates to our emotions.
Dont mess with strangers. You never know what they are perceiving or what they're capable of.
Dr Grande has the best comment section on RUclips
It's not ok to use violations of your rights to exercise cruel vengeance, but...the ppl who initially perpetrate the violations are the ones primarily responsible for what happens after. We would hope victims show restraint towards perpetrators, but morally, I don't know how much restraint we should expect.
Disproportionate responses are wrong, but putting someone in a situation where they have to respond to violations of their rights is the greater wrong imo
This is really well put, thank you :)
For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.
Action: Twats targeted a man who looked like an easy mark.
Reaction: The easy mark removes a 5-shooter from his incorrect holster and shoots them.
Yes it is when they are trying to kill you, or worse they are trying to kill your family.
ironic that he got charge for possessing a gun but not for using it
I mean technically that was the only thing he did wrong. Should have acquired the gun legally.
Self defense is not illegal.
Squirrels really do need advocates! We're well aware how vicious owls can be, as Michael Peterson can attest, violent offenders. Squirrels are high risk as victims of an owl attack.
@@Time_to_Stop_Animal_Abuse my comment was meant to be sarcastic, but you're definitely not wrong about cats and squirrels! My neighbors started raising chickens last year and ever since, I've had to go outside with my dog when he potties because the chickens have attracted birds of prey to our house (more than we already had at least, because there are also lots of wild rabbits and quail that live on and around our property). Red tailed hawks, burrowing owls, and horned owls are pretty common these days and I still see coyotes every now and then, but luckily they don't bother with our fence. My dog is a toy breed so he'd get snatched in a second no matter how tough he thinks he is. He's caught quail, mice, and rabbits and he's tried bringing a live garden snake in once, but he's smaller than the neighbor's full grown chickens so it gets me nervous letting him in the yard on his own now.
When in Jamaica, a man approached me, informing me that he had a knife. He demanded $20.00. I bargained him down to 5 and we came to an amicable agreement. I love Jamaica!
You seem like a rational guy
I am surprised but pleased that you concluded that he never should've been charged.
OMG I cannot wait to share this with my husband lol. Seriously, I did not know all those facts about BG. THANK YOU, Dr. Grande, for providing this fact-based layout of facts!
43million dollars? Thats an OBSCENE award, I have NEVER heard of that kind of award, even for families who had been murdered
13:14 “few squirrels can count that high” lol . INFJ Gold
One of the muggers (James Ramseur) actually committed(overdosed)suicide in a rundown hotel room in the Bronx.
It's unbelievable how the assailants were not charged! Goetz didn't have to shoot, or at least not so soon, but as a victim of muggings with deadly weapons I can understand the feeling of helplessness that the experience engenders. This is one of those situations where everyone sucks.
Learned helplessness is what both muggers and people like Goetz too are hoping to see in peoples eyes they are approaching MsMdip before robbing shooting and accusing to get out of trouble. Remember that when it is your turn to get past retirement age too.
He had to, they had stabbing weapons and unlike a gun, they are always loaded and don't miss, ever. He only mistake was his shot placement was not good enough to shoot all four of them fatally. Dead criminals do not victimize any more people one a would be victim drops the hammer on them.
How soon is too soon?
And how late is too late?
Thank you! This was the crazy story of the moment when I moved to NYc. It brings back a lot of gritty New York memories! Meow! The coddling liberal attitude toward violent offenders day in and day out can affect your mental health deeply, when you realize you are nothing but a tax paying moving target, yikes!
Raw Olympia if the police even turn up, it’s only to bring the blood ambulance or some guys to sweep up the remains with a dustpan and brush
Unbelievable that anyone could ever think of Goetz as being a hero. Dr. Gande your sense of humor shows incredulity about Goetz being like a hero automatic transformer or incredulity about thieves in general being only a bit more than victim panhandlers which poverty always makes them do it too.
I'd forgotten this incident but it was a big deal in the 80's. Thanks for sharing another excellent evaluation on a golden oldie.
I remember being, very much, on his side until I heard him interviewed. What a putz.
Yeah not a good guy at all
Getting robbed and bullied will do that to you.
A helluva guy...
This was the best analysis of anything I’ve ever heard, on any platform. Just so you know, Dr. Grande, I have a proper holster, and I don’t let my dog chase squirrels.
I have a personality disorder but lived by a Creed of: "No one is to blame for my pain, character intact, keep it the same" Awkward statement but I want to Not hurt anyone more than anything.
If I can donate my brain to science after I die, (I am not suicidal) I can help someone if the future. I don't know the process for donating my brain but want to know how. I talked myself into getting an MRI in 08/2018 due to sensory disorders. I am 50 years-old, male, suspected of having Aspergers but have never been in a relationship.
I feel I have to be my own doctor but I am running myself into the ground doing it. I just need one person to help me. I live in the Fresno area of Central California but most of the psych med professionals seem like condescending baby-boomers and I hate stereotyping too, I just haven't been proven wrong yet.
I hope you are able to connect with a doctor that treats you with the kindness and patience you deserve.
There was a NY based punk band called, ED GEIN'S CAR at the same time and they wrote a ballad for Goetz called "Boo hoo.". Popular song at CBGB's. I remember the story well, having lived in the area at the time. Goetz was a hero to most people. Since you're on NY in that period, you should look into the case of Joel Steinberg and Heda Nussbaum.
ruclips.net/video/wJLThM9o9bY/видео.html
I lived in NYC during the time of this crime. It was very dangerous to use the subway unless it was high commute time. Very little police presence. Pretty sure using deadly force to protect your life is a defense to assault and murder in that state, so the jury got it right.
I bumped into Mr. Goetz in a pet store once, where we were shopping for our pets. We chatted for a little while, mainly about our pets. He was very pleasant, polite, and respectful (I was there alone, not part of a gang; and I hadn't threatened him with a weapon, so he was obviously free to just be his normal, peaceful, shyly effervescent self). He never mentioned that he was running for Mayor of NYC (no huge ego evident), or that he was the famous "Subway Shooter" (no attention needs apparent). I never mentioned that I recognized him (I didn't do it with Woody Allen, Jean Stapleton, Darryl Hannah, Tony Roberts, Diane Keaton, Lou Albano, Al Roker, Ron Howard, or any of the others with whom I shared the sidewalk, or ran into in the lobby or hallway of a building, near a shooting (movie shooting), or with whom I'd even happened to ride the subway. I'm an Empath, so I have to assume some of us don't consider that in a city of 12 million people at any given time, they might get enough of that and need their space like anybody else. And I did not, in any way, think of Mr. Goetz as a Narcissist or a criminal, or an unstable or dangerous person, nor as a dishonest man, just as someone who had once been forced into an unfortunate (for him) predicament. As for the other players, whatever happened to them needed to be chalked up to just an "occupational hazard", which it what it was, realistically. I was short on time but had I had more time I would have liked to have remained and talked some more.
I have to disagree with Dr. Grande's (safe) semi-assessment of Mr. Goetz' "attention-seeking" behavior based on the his having given a couple of pre-trial interviews and how he "kept talking about it". This could very well be attributed to trauma, to emotional overload.
When a person is overwhelmed by a sudden, unexpected, physically-threatening event (and consider that Mr. Goetz may have been already suffering from undiagnosed PTSD from a previous brutal assault) the mind, the very psyche, goes into overdrive, attempting to make sense of what has just happened. It could be 6 months later and if the person could not successfully sort out the whats whys, and put in into a clear and logical story in their mind, they may be compelled to verbally go over and over what they experienced; it is not enough to merely think it out over and over. To have it make sense to yourself, after the relatively comfortable paradigm you'd been living with has been shattered, you need to verbalize your story, sometimes to as many people as you can tell it to. This is trauma the person cannot contain; it needs to be exorcised in this manner. Telling and re-telling the enormity of what has happened to you until you can convince yourself that "this is what happened, this really happened to me" is imperative in processing this new information, and in relationship to how it has altered various areas of your life, and helping your acceptance of it all, so that you won't remain suspended between two spheres: your shattered paradigm and the new one you're feverishly working to form so that you can once again stand on terra firma. It's simultaneously an exorcism, and a bridge between the now-damaged world you inhabited and the seemingly vacuous one you're now forced to enter. Every time you hear yourself repeat the reality of your story, you solidify the ground beneath your feet as you move forward. The traumatized person must not only move forward but must have assurance that there is a space to move into, that will support them, that will not collapse. The telling of your story acts like a propeller into a new place *away* from what is, ironically, not only the sphere of existence you're painfully driven from and from the event that came crashing down on that world and forever altered it, forcing you to leave it behind, and compelling you to repeat story again and again. In truth, you don't want to have to tell, even yourself, that story, much less have it occupy your thoughts and your re-telling of it as infinitum. But that's the exorcism mechanism. It's a process.Thus, each painful re-telling of your story becomes a railroad tie, gradually setting down new track for you to travel on, as you move to your next sphere of reality.
Now, the very fact that Mr. Goetz had referred to himself as "a monster" during questioning only indicates his level of shock *at himself* over how he had reacted. A real sociopath would have never said that, and not to police.They say that if you're an honest person, you should avoid ever taking a lie detector test, because your honesty will work against you. Seems as if the system was designed by the psychopaths, to benefit psychopaths. (FPBP) Good, honest people oftentimes suffer the worst in an energetically (for the most part) cannibalistic culture. Just look at what they did to Jesus/Yeshua the Christed One/The Messiah, The Son of The Living God.
Good case, Dr. Grande. Self defense is almost invariably fraught with perils for anyone who invokes it. It's always a worst case scenario. Talking to the media, or oversharing with investigators has rarely worked in anyone's favor. In 1984 I think NYC was dealing with fiscal limits, escalating violent and property crime, hiring freezes, garbage strikes, etc. and his actions occurred in the context of a terrorized citizenry, as you pointed out, but his verbal stream of consciousness wasn't in his best interest. Media circuses derail the objective climate necessary for a fair and impartial judicial process, as prosecutors often seem to be playing to the media rather than fairly weighing the responsibilities and offenses of the involved parties. Things may have changed in NY since 84, but it is virtually impossible to get a permit for concealed carry there currently. Even transporting a rifle during hunting season is strictly and rigidly limited.
An aggressive armed rat pack of adolescent males is dangerous. If they had disarmed him they would have been armed with a handgun, not just sharpened screwdrivers. No easy answers to this one. He should have lawyered up and taken his lawyers advice, I think.
Yes, he should have remained silent and let his lawyer do the talking. After the fact, he should not speak to anyone, the press especially. If he was bothered by what happened, then he should take that up with a priest or a counselor. Other than that, he should shut up.
Can you do a video on the people who have to comment “FIRST” on videos?? Oh my goodness it’s so incredibly annoying and narcissistic
Kurtis Williams I have done it a few times...🌝😇🌝
Second! 😁😁😁😁
Ask yourself why does it concern you?
🤣🤣🤣🤣
He sounds like a hero to me.
I lived in NYC then, and it was not the city’s finest hour. The incidents were handled poorly. My word, Goetz had a big mouth. He should have zipped it.
Many people feel the need to give their side of the story when it is best to keep one's mouth shut.
@@LaurenThompsonIsMyRealName He demonstrated no racism at all. A black juror even said this. Even during his video taped confession, (that you have clearly never seen), when he was extremely agitated he never once used a racial epitaph or even mentioned race at all . Why did you bring race into it?
Lauren Thompson There was a lot of sympathy for Goetz at the time because NYC had a bad crime problem which has since improved considerably. Race was not an issue and had nothing to do with this. The young people were and remained criminals. I thing Dr. Grande makes that point nicely.
His gun is louder than his mouth and I am glad his gun did the talking.
He applied to carry and qualified, but still denied. The system was broken.
Or they knew he seemed unhinged and realized he wasn’t safe to carry.
I was in NYC BG (Before Giuliani). It was bad.
I got an email response after contacting Bernhard Goetz once. Nice guy. I recall hearing this story back in high school.
This is a hard one. Not sure what I would do given similar circumstances.
Re the prosecution and the defence seeking jurors who had been mugged - in NY in those days, EVERYONE had been mugged
I understand that the legal side of things can sometimes cloud judgement in these cases, but we should also step back and think “ are four lives worth less than $5?”. Instead maybe saying, “ I could murder all of these kids for daring to violate my rights and make me a victim today, but I would rather diffuse this and not become a murderer”. A big part of gun ownership is having the discretion when not to use it. The people registering his gun permit may have noted something about Goetz personality and made an executive decision to deny his license. If the four teens were as close as he described, Goetz would not have had room to stand up and reach for his gun, let alone shoot all four of them once each. And considering he did have the time to do so, he also could have held his weapon trained on the teens to keep them at bay. I disagree with Dr. Grande that Goetz should not have been charged at all in exchange for immunity, as a trial should have at least taken place to determine his culpability.
I can't believe people take the side of criminals. If you don't want to get shot, don't mug me with sharpened screw drivers.
@@georgea.567 Pretty sure you're the one defending a criminal since Goetz was carrying an unlicensed firearm and was the only one to ever serve prison time.
You try to keep 4 men at bay armed with sharpened screw drivers at close quarters range.
Goetz should NOT have been charged with attempted murder. These 5 teens boarded that train knowing full well their intention was to commit a felony sooner than later that day. Unfortunately, 2 of them provoked Goetz...” stopping them in their tracks.”
The personalities /attitudes portrayed in court established they are the ones that should have been charged.
Hi dr. Grande, thank you so much for sending me the heart. I am confined to my bed, have been going on three years. I watch you every day. I have learned I am not a sociopath . lol
I remember this case as well.
The subway was much different back then compared to now.
Great video Dr
Your thorough investigation into these cases is impressive!
Dr. Grande your analysis of the Bernard Goetz was great as usual I learned things about the case that I did not know before. Goetz was my hero. These guys got what they deserved. Guys like this run in packs. They seek soft targets like singles or the elderly. They are cowards that count on the fact that law abiding citizens cannot hurt them. When you mess with people sooner or later you will run into someone who is fed up and despite the law they will get you. Sir please consider doing Ted Streleski aka the “Ball-peen Killer”. What specifically went wrong?
Great video!! I was just watching a documentary about him.
I think he is high on neuroticism rather than mid-range because he worried and acted on his worry of conflict by carrying a gun. I am a gun owner, and many people like myself play over hundreds of criminal acts that could be perpetrated around us or to us.
Oh, yeah, I remember this case well! I vacillated on his guilt or innocence for quite a while. In the end, I put myself in his position, and am pretty sure I’d have done the same.
NY was a LOT different then. Getting on certain lines of the subway, at certain times of day, was pretty dicey. It was like the Wild West, you always were on high alert, and back then, I never considered riding alone, no matter where I was headed, or what time of day it was.
I didn’t see Goetz as a hero, but he wasn’t a villain, either.
Very interesting video. Haven’t thought of this case in years.
Thank you, Doc!
Why is it ok to rob someone or harass people it’s not ok.
I've always wondered about the right to self-defense and the weird sort of dissociation/autopilot state a person goes into when they're in that kind of traumatic situation. It might sound reasonable to say he could have just pulled out the gun and threatened them to back off before firing, but I know in that kind of anxious situation where I could feel myself starting to slip away I could only be focused on eliminating the threat for fear of dissociating entirely and becoming unable to defend myself.
NONSENSE! TOTAL NONSENSE! 4 men within grabbing distance of the gun, no way!
Would love to hear your take on Christopher Dorner.
BUMP
Great idea
I heard about Dorner being an immature cop.
I wonder if the African American youths ever mugged anyone else after that little experience
probably not the disabled one - ha.
Thoroughly enjoyed that! I’m very familiar with the good Doctor’s more recent offerings so it was interesting to see how he did things in the earlier days of his channel. Lots of the characteristics are very similar but he’s definitely finessed his style since then and has it down to a fine art these days!
So that's the Bernie Goetz mentioned in the Billy Joel song. The more you know.
Is it We Didn't Start the Fire.?
@@geraldfriend256 Uptown Girl?
Very good Dr Grande you get a gold star for this one
Not sure I agree with Dr Grande's assessment of the verdict in this case. While the young assailants should not have gotten off, Goetz is not innocent in all of this. He attempted to murder these boys, and did not explore all available options of defense prior to shooting them. He went gun first, and in a similar situation (subway) as his earlier experience being mugged. Makes me think there's a degree of premeditation here.
I agree. because of the ferocity of his response I cant completely agree with Dr. Grande on this one. were the shooter an undercover or off-duty officer it still would be overkill.
Exactly my thoughts. I just commented when all the others moved away from the guys because of their behavior why didn't Goetz. I think him having a gun emboldened him to remain near the guys. He could not know they were going to attempt to rob him or rough him up. But their behavior didn't off put him enough to move away from them.
Have you ever been mugged?
I would have agreed before hearing Dr Grande's argument on trauma. He was robbed before, as such, it's easy to imagine him just not being able to react in moderation. They had clearly deadly weapons, so while I would agree with the overkill narrative if the 5th shot was fired after saying something, I think here we're still narrowly within what's reasonable. If you get yourself voluntarily into predicament, you can't complain if you get shot. Robbing somebody with a weapon tends to have this effect.
AsToldByMuriel Not only that, but he says only two of the men approached him and one told him to give him $5 but he shot all 4? Including the 2 that didn’t approach him?
I've had that tunnel vision before. Sometimes your instincts just kick in and you react because there is no time to think. I don't care so much for myself, but if you hurt my friends and family I lose it. My sister's ex-husband broke the door down once and kicked her bedroom door in, pushed her down on the bed. I was sleeping over on the couch, having spent the day with her and the kids. I lept up off that couch, sprinted 25 feet like Usain Bolt, and gave him a good knuckle sandwich to the side of the head, knocking him down. I reacted. It just happened. It took a minute for me to be fully aware of what I'd just done. He took off before the cops got there, but he tried to get me charged with assault and battery--said I gave him a concussion. The cops laughed at him for obvious reasons.
It sounds like he was made an example of by a city that failed to protect its citizens against criminals.
How do you keep a straight face describing him as a squirrel advocate. I like the thread of humor. Nice work! You truly help people understand human psychology!
I was talking to a lady old Southeast Asian woman walking along by herself taking buses around LA and I was talking to her in front of the grocery store and she said she can’t wait because sometimes the bus takes so long. she likes to walk up to the next bus stop and she can’t do it because there’re so many homeless people on the street. she said she was talking to one of them about what he was smoking. he said it was weed, she told him it was crack. I said don’t talk to them, don’t look at them. don’t get their attention. keep to yourself and be careful go around them when you can. It’s a very serious crime hazard here. I’m talking about an old lady, southeast Asian nice lady trying to take buses and we can’t. So people get fed up. A homeless man went up onto the Venice Beach from behind gold’s gym and hatcheted another homeless over a homeless lady gf, a homeless love triangle. Don’t be naive. Law abiding citizens are forced to move over and make way for criminals in today’s world. I’m over it.
Dr. Grande is quite knowledgeable about firearms.
Yes we get it.
Very surprised that you are of the opinion that Goetz shouldn't have been charged. I don't know the ins and outs of the law in this case but if Goetz felt threatened in the moment the four men approached him and demanded $5, could he not have pointed the gun at them without firing? None of the men used or threatened physical force. He was on a train with other passengers present, it's unlikely his life was in danger. I'm Australian and over here we're not as quick to excuse unnecessary gun violence.
You couldn't use a firearm in Australia even if you wanted to.
4 black guys move to surround you and isolate you from the rest of the carriage, call it profiling or whatever but I don't think I've ever heard of a situation that started in this way end with a friendly pat-on-the-back. They have already disrupted the carriage enough that several passengers have moved away or disembarked entirely. Maybe you don't live in a city, the 'urban youth' stereotype persisted for a reason. You are surrounded, which guy are you going to point the gun at? And how are you going to stop the other three from disarming you? Now you are in significantly more danger than you were a second ago and have no way to protect yourself anymore.
@@marsnz1002 Rest assured I feel extremely fortunate to live in Australia, where gun violence is minuscule compared to the US. So you're saying there was absolutely no way to diffuse this situation other than for Goetz to shoot the four "black guys" at close range, potentially killing them, even though their crime up until that point was being disruptive and then approaching Goetz and saying "Give me $5". Only in America.
We need more vigilantes.
Yes. I'm currently watching that Netflix series. It's taking some time but it's very good. I remember that when I was a kid. This case was quite something.
"few squirrels can count that high." Thank you, that was a laugh I needed today. :)
"which really makes no sense because squirrels can't count that high" 😂 I love how you bring humour to serious situations
Oooooh! I got a hot topic for you, do the psychology behind people that fall for MLMs
My cousin an NYPD detective arrested B. Goetz. Crime went way down after the shootings surprise, surprise.
Aggressive panhandling. Oh the creativity.
Enjoyed this video. Really uncertain regarding Mr. Gretzky.
Someone who was mugged no doubt would understand how heroic shooting these four was.
I think like this: a guy was obviously about to be robbed, disrespectfully ordered to hand over his money, outnumbered 4:1 by criminals with a stabbing weapon. He defended himself effectively with a gun. The victim blaming injustice system put the victim on trial instead of the perpetrators, covering up a murder by one of their members, Stephanie Lazarus, 2 years later. If police groundlessly murders random people in the street who are standing with their backs towards them, they are often not held responsible. This system has nothing to do with justice - it's just an arrogant, capricious exercise of power.
Dr Grands, you analysis of notorious cases in current history is so helpful for people to get an insight into human behavior. Would you please consider looking at the video of a San Francisco women named Lisa in the latest incident of racial profiling. I am suggesting it because I am a POC who is multi ethnic and I have been dicriminated against, just like many, many others based on my skin color. I am Latino, Western European and African and and these same groups have treated me with prejudice. Racism and prejudice of any kind is an unfortunate human problem. I am eager to hear your thoughts.
Yes, I would like to hear him discuss stories like Lisa's! :-)
Also, I'm so very sorry that you had to endure such cruelty & racism. :-( But you have many, MANY more allies than you might think! :-)
I haven't watched the video yet, but it irks me that no one ever mentions the the protagonist of the Michael Douglas movie "Falling Down" is seemingly based on him. Looking forward to watching this!
Damn, 20 minutes later than usual. I was already become worried that something had happened
Brains Applied were you out robbing a Subway 😚😚😚
HillbillyHell my first language was German. 😚😀
I've seen the documentary on Netflix. Thanks for doing a video about this, doctor. It was very interesting and I enjoyed watching it! Keep your deadpan humor being busy..... hehehe, Dr. Grande 😃🇳🇱
Back in the early 80's ... Death Wish II (1982) where vigilante Charles Bronson is exterminating punks... one would expect people to sympathize with the shooter. Unfortunately for Goetz, everything that could have been done wrong, was done exactly that way.
Better luck next time, and use .475 Wildey Magnum.
I miss Charles Bronson!
It was self defense. It's very shameful that the robbers didn't get prosecuted.