Great video. Agree that an ampless/IEM stage should be much more consistent and most FOH engineers love lower stage volumes. Glad you mentioned the loss of "feeling" the bass. Would be interested to see your thoughts on products like the Backbeat and Amplified stage boards that recreate the physical effect of stage vibrations to the player.
I’ve only had the chance to use a floor board by Eich once. The board combined with the subs beneath the stage was a bit too overwhelming, but i’m sure they work well on very dry stages.
Not related to the topic, but congratulations for playing with Dr.Krapula!! They are a band from my city in Colombia. Their album Tomates was like one of the first albums I bought as a kid. It's really cool to see people I admire and respect like you, playing with bands I care a lot about like Los Krapula. Vamos Colombia!!
I’ve had a conversation with a friend of mine about going ampless at a gig. And he told me that going ampless depends on the venues itself. Some venues have good p.a systems to go ampless, while other places have older p.a systems that don’t exactly support ampless rigs. I personally prefer using amps live. But I have gone ampless during recordings. I have positive experience with both situations. And truthfully I wouldn’t mind going ampless as long as I get to use my stomp boxes(especially since I use effects on bass). Other than that, I would still use an amp live. However I do own a preamp pedal for emergency purposes. Like if my amp isn’t working right, I have a preamp pedal for the sound guy to hook up the xlr output to continue my performance. So it really does pay to own backup gear like that. Cause you might never know if it would come in handy.
Excellent video mi hermano, as usual!!! As you said: preparation, known your gear, identify any "weak links" in your soundchain, and be conscious about sound your need vs the sound you want, are keys for getting the best amp-less sound... I've been trying to get my band into the "ampless" territory, but it takes time... They are not very aware of what the technology offers these days in terms of mixing, monitoring and easy of use(the Behringer XR18 and similar mixers offer a lot of possibilities and flexibility for a the same price of a half-decent regular mixer/snake combo) , without even mentioning the other part: the different and great options now on amp simulators, IR's and other gear; from the Valeton GP200 to the Helix, to the Kemper, the quality and flexibility of the modelers has been advancing much beyond the Line6 POD we all knew. I started with the in-ears and man, never look back: controlling the amount of sound your ears are getting, means your hearing is protected!! Only that justifies the cost and minor discomfort you can have wearing in-ears... Plus, within a couple gigs you realize you hoe much controlled and focused your playing can be, hearing what you want to hear, and hoe detailed it can be. Just identify your weak spots (in my case, I use a GP Lightstone tube preamp, plus a NUX Melvis Davis preamp as a backup-you never can have enough preparation working with real tubes) so you can have your sound running nicely again within the next 3 minutes!! Sorry for the long post, but this is a theme I think many musicians should talk and share their thoughts and experiences, as you always do!! Thanks mi hermano!! Paz y lo mejor para vos!!!
That’s true. However, everything should run smoothly if you have a good tech rider for the FOH crew and know where everything should be plugged in. We have experienced several times that if something was not working properly or if a signal was not arriving to the mixing desk, it was a mistake on part of the FOH crew, because they patched something incorrectly on their end 😅
Ivan ... we also invested in an IEM system with a splitter and customized headphones to control our own monitor mix but we still have to receive all the parts so no experience yet ;-) Just a question, as a bass player I have a Helix Line6 LT but I rather use my pedalboard including Origin Effects (Cali76 comp + DCX) pedals and going through a BassRig Super Vintage simulator pedal. I know you also own a Orgin Effects BassRig Super Vintage pedal, in your opinion will it do the job well or will the Helix Line6 LT be a better candidate ? Thanks for your opinion/feedback bro. Again ... great video
I get why some folk like the in ear idea but for me it`s having players in their own little world of sound and that isn`t the reason I got into playing live. For live use I have a FRFR cab and a SansAmp with a feed to foh, easy to set up and you still get enough on stage volume to make it enjoyable, which is the whole point for me.
I would say my biggest challenge with IEMs is how to get a good consistent sound in my ears that sounds good out of FOH too. Last night I used IEMs and had an Ampeg 410 with SVT head on stage. The sound on stage was fine. I felt the sound in my ears was thin. I didn't have individual control on that IEM sound. Just volume. Have you learned anything that you can share that might help me adjust those two to get a better result? Like also I can come up with a good sound in my room but transfered to IEMs and out loud on stage with a band, it doesn't work. I can't hear it well unless I crank mids very hard. I got to tell you that cutting through other instruments and still get an inear sound that inspires seems elusive. I really feel I need separate controls for both. But maybe you do have that with the Quad Cortex? If so, I missed that somewhere. I haven't looked further into that. Maybe I should...
@@IvanBassist My chain goes from a tuner into a Spectra Comp compressor between 9 and 10 o’clock. Then into a Orange Bass Butler using just the clean channel. (I use this compressor too. They are pretty different. Signal doesn’t sound squashed to me at all. Fairly lively sounding with both on.) Then from AMP out into a Rupert Neve DI and from the thru into the bass amp. Either an Ampeg SVT with 410 or a Markbass Mini CMD 121P with the extension cab. The Neve goes to FOH. The Neve has the front switch set to “instrument.” So I believe I’m sending the same signal that I have for my amp into my ears. So if I run an octave pedal or distortion off the second channel of the Bass Butler, which goes to FOH too. That is probably blowing it. I think I need to separate the two somehow but not sure how.
I did some reading about the bass butler. It seems the AMP Out has NO cabinet simulation. However, both clean and distortion XLR out do have one. If you want to have the combined sound of the pedal in your ears, i’d suggest ditching the Rndi and: A) Sending both XLRs signals to FOH and then ask for a blend of both for your IEMs B) As an alternative you can get a mixer like this one: www.thomann.de/de/radial_mix2_1.htm?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIwfKvqqyVgQMVuvDjBx0CkgAUEAQYASABEgLasvD_BwE and only send the combined signal to FOH and to your IEMs. This approach saves one channel on the mixing desk and gives you some more control over the sound balance.
@@IvanBassist I actually already have one of those mixers. I've experimented a little a while back but may need to revisit in a different way. The dirty side of the Butler doesn't get used all the time. But it's nice to engage here and there. I mostly run the clean side and taper the EQ with the actual amp settings on the Ampeg or the Markbass. The Butler doesn't have any mids on the clean channel. I use mids a lot. It's everything to cutting. That gets me a "live" sound that works well enough most places. But the inears don't sound great with that "live" sound in my opinion. I felt the Neve sounded great at FOH and got both the channels of the Butler as well as the Spectra Comp and Octave pedal when those got engaged. Just for my ears that doesn't sound full. I don't know how much control FOH has on the "tone" of my ears. The system used at Knott's Berry Farm just allows me volume. I'm not sure about some of the other systems. I'll have to ask. Ultimately, I'd like to individually control my LIVE sound to FOH, which I do now. Then control my IEM sound and tone individually. But I still need other instruments for my IEMs too. So the feed needs to come from FOH to my ears. I thought maybe a rolls.com/product/PM351 would work. That separates the other instruments and my bass but I cannot or don't know how to control the TONE and sound of the bass in the IEMs. And that DI on the Rolls is just not great compared to the BB DI or the Neve. There is a better way to do this I'm sure. I am just not clearly thinking what it is.
Hey Ivan, Thanks for your videos! They are always well thought out and informative. Have you ever tried a backbeat? It’s like having a subwoofer on your back. I have the original (G1) and the new one (G2). It compliments in ears really well!
I’ve thought about getting one, but i got other things to invest in first on my list. Mostly the venues where I play have decent subs beneath the stage and that helps with the feel of the bass :)
It can take almost as long to wire & DI everthing...then the bands sound is down to the guy at the mixing desk...what if you don't know him or he has not heard your music before, if you have your music handy for him to listen to & he has the time great, but your bands sound is then not your bands sound....handy yes but maybe being older i remember being able to set up pretty quick...practice makes perfect...digital screws up to ,i would say just as much as analogue, all software problems at most gigs nowadays.... easier to travel & less worry yes but i would be worried about the bloke at the mixing desk...some guy's at mixing desk's are in the wrong job imho & experience....oh the joy's of touring if not prepared properly or the right equipment to get your tone right without your backline to mix in or even hear at all...i get upset going straight DI as not my tone i'm hearing in any type of in-ear or stage monitors, but i'm slightly older..lol...God bless himself for Punk Rock '77...when else could you play with just 2 or 3 notes at 130bpm...& the crowds luvved it...lol...you had to have a bit swagger & look the part but you learned to play on the job...fantastic days,when folk could afford tickets or got in for nothing without one anyway...Blink 182 charged £1500 for playing Wembley....it was not a sell out but they are now, the band that done a buck world tour...good to see ethics are still alive...no wonder more kids are getting put off playing now as it is criminally overpriced by old has been's in their '60's & '70's.....most can't even play live now, cough Nikky Six but yet made more money on a tour a few years ago when faking it than they ever did playing live...John 5 what are you doing ?...you have real talent & are kool...& ain't over 60-65 yrs old.....
![Quando Rondo - Life Goes On [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/eIf3fhMXAow/mqdefault.jpg)
Great video. Agree that an ampless/IEM stage should be much more consistent and most FOH engineers love lower stage volumes.
Glad you mentioned the loss of "feeling" the bass.
Would be interested to see your thoughts on products like the Backbeat and Amplified stage boards that recreate the physical effect of stage vibrations to the player.
I’ve only had the chance to use a floor board by Eich once. The board combined with the subs beneath the stage was a bit too overwhelming, but i’m sure they work well on very dry stages.
Not related to the topic, but congratulations for playing with Dr.Krapula!! They are a band from my city in Colombia. Their album Tomates was like one of the first albums I bought as a kid. It's really cool to see people I admire and respect like you, playing with bands I care a lot about like Los Krapula. Vamos Colombia!!
Saludos!
I’ve had a conversation with a friend of mine about going ampless at a gig. And he told me that going ampless depends on the venues itself. Some venues have good p.a systems to go ampless, while other places have older p.a systems that don’t exactly support ampless rigs. I personally prefer using amps live. But I have gone ampless during recordings. I have positive experience with both situations. And truthfully I wouldn’t mind going ampless as long as I get to use my stomp boxes(especially since I use effects on bass). Other than that, I would still use an amp live. However I do own a preamp pedal for emergency purposes. Like if my amp isn’t working right, I have a preamp pedal for the sound guy to hook up the xlr output to continue my performance. So it really does pay to own backup gear like that. Cause you might never know if it would come in handy.
Best solution right there :)
Second that my friend.
Excellent video mi hermano, as usual!!! As you said: preparation, known your gear, identify any "weak links" in your soundchain, and be conscious about sound your need vs the sound you want, are keys for getting the best amp-less sound... I've been trying to get my band into the "ampless" territory, but it takes time... They are not very aware of what the technology offers these days in terms of mixing, monitoring and easy of use(the Behringer XR18 and similar mixers offer a lot of possibilities and flexibility for a the same price of a half-decent regular mixer/snake combo) , without even mentioning the other part: the different and great options now on amp simulators, IR's and other gear; from the Valeton GP200 to the Helix, to the Kemper, the quality and flexibility of the modelers has been advancing much beyond the Line6 POD we all knew.
I started with the in-ears and man, never look back: controlling the amount of sound your ears are getting, means your hearing is protected!! Only that justifies the cost and minor discomfort you can have wearing in-ears... Plus, within a couple gigs you realize you hoe much controlled and focused your playing can be, hearing what you want to hear, and hoe detailed it can be. Just identify your weak spots (in my case, I use a GP Lightstone tube preamp, plus a NUX Melvis Davis preamp as a backup-you never can have enough preparation working with real tubes) so you can have your sound running nicely again within the next 3 minutes!!
Sorry for the long post, but this is a theme I think many musicians should talk and share their thoughts and experiences, as you always do!!
Thanks mi hermano!! Paz y lo mejor para vos!!!
Muchas gracias por ver el canal! 🙏🏽
The setup time aspect depends. I've seen some bands take LONGER setting up in-ear rigs, and sounchecking them, than with convention amps or wedges.
That’s true. However, everything should run smoothly if you have a good tech rider for the FOH crew and know where everything should be plugged in.
We have experienced several times that if something was not working properly or if a signal was not arriving to the mixing desk, it was a mistake on part of the FOH crew, because they patched something incorrectly on their end 😅
Ivan ... we also invested in an IEM system with a splitter and customized headphones to control our own monitor mix but we still have to receive all the parts so no experience yet ;-)
Just a question, as a bass player I have a Helix Line6 LT but I rather use my pedalboard including Origin Effects (Cali76 comp + DCX) pedals and going through a BassRig Super Vintage simulator pedal.
I know you also own a Orgin Effects BassRig Super Vintage pedal, in your opinion will it do the job well or will the Helix Line6 LT be a better candidate ?
Thanks for your opinion/feedback bro.
Again ... great video
I get why some folk like the in ear idea but for me it`s having players in their own little world of sound and that isn`t the reason I got into playing live. For live use I have a FRFR cab and a SansAmp with a feed to foh, easy to set up and you still get enough on stage volume to make it enjoyable, which is the whole point for me.
I would say my biggest challenge with IEMs is how to get a good consistent sound in my ears that sounds good out of FOH too. Last night I used IEMs and had an Ampeg 410 with SVT head on stage. The sound on stage was fine. I felt the sound in my ears was thin. I didn't have individual control on that IEM sound. Just volume. Have you learned anything that you can share that might help me adjust those two to get a better result? Like also I can come up with a good sound in my room but transfered to IEMs and out loud on stage with a band, it doesn't work. I can't hear it well unless I crank mids very hard. I got to tell you that cutting through other instruments and still get an inear sound that inspires seems elusive. I really feel I need separate controls for both. But maybe you do have that with the Quad Cortex? If so, I missed that somewhere. I haven't looked further into that. Maybe I should...
How are you sending the sound to FOH and into your ears? Is it completely direct/a clean DI signal or do you have some sort of amp/cabinet simulation?
@@IvanBassist My chain goes from a tuner into a Spectra Comp compressor between 9 and 10 o’clock. Then into a Orange Bass Butler using just the clean channel. (I use this compressor too. They are pretty different. Signal doesn’t sound squashed to me at all. Fairly lively sounding with both on.) Then from AMP out into a Rupert Neve DI and from the thru into the bass amp. Either an Ampeg SVT with 410 or a Markbass Mini CMD 121P with the extension cab. The Neve goes to FOH. The Neve has the front switch set to “instrument.” So I believe I’m sending the same signal that I have for my amp into my ears. So if I run an octave pedal or distortion off the second channel of the Bass Butler, which goes to FOH too. That is probably blowing it. I think I need to separate the two somehow but not sure how.
I did some reading about the bass butler.
It seems the AMP Out has NO cabinet simulation. However, both clean and distortion XLR out do have one.
If you want to have the combined sound of the pedal in your ears, i’d suggest ditching the Rndi and:
A) Sending both XLRs signals to FOH and then ask for a blend of both for your IEMs
B) As an alternative you can get a mixer like this one: www.thomann.de/de/radial_mix2_1.htm?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIwfKvqqyVgQMVuvDjBx0CkgAUEAQYASABEgLasvD_BwE and only send the combined signal to FOH and to your IEMs. This approach saves one channel on the mixing desk and gives you some more control over the sound balance.
@@IvanBassist I actually already have one of those mixers. I've experimented a little a while back but may need to revisit in a different way. The dirty side of the Butler doesn't get used all the time. But it's nice to engage here and there. I mostly run the clean side and taper the EQ with the actual amp settings on the Ampeg or the Markbass. The Butler doesn't have any mids on the clean channel. I use mids a lot. It's everything to cutting. That gets me a "live" sound that works well enough most places. But the inears don't sound great with that "live" sound in my opinion. I felt the Neve sounded great at FOH and got both the channels of the Butler as well as the Spectra Comp and Octave pedal when those got engaged. Just for my ears that doesn't sound full. I don't know how much control FOH has on the "tone" of my ears. The system used at Knott's Berry Farm just allows me volume. I'm not sure about some of the other systems. I'll have to ask. Ultimately, I'd like to individually control my LIVE sound to FOH, which I do now. Then control my IEM sound and tone individually. But I still need other instruments for my IEMs too. So the feed needs to come from FOH to my ears. I thought maybe a rolls.com/product/PM351 would work. That separates the other instruments and my bass but I cannot or don't know how to control the TONE and sound of the bass in the IEMs. And that DI on the Rolls is just not great compared to the BB DI or the Neve. There is a better way to do this I'm sure. I am just not clearly thinking what it is.
when it comes to not feeling the sound in ampless situations: you might want to read into the tecamp pleasure pump....
Hey Ivan,
Thanks for your videos! They are always well thought out and informative. Have you ever tried a backbeat? It’s like having a subwoofer on your back. I have the original (G1) and the new one (G2). It compliments in ears really well!
I’ve thought about getting one, but i got other things to invest in first on my list.
Mostly the venues where I play have decent subs beneath the stage and that helps with the feel of the bass :)
It can take almost as long to wire & DI everthing...then the bands sound is down to the guy at the mixing desk...what if you don't know him or he has not heard your music before, if you have your music handy for him to listen to & he has the time great, but your bands sound is then not your bands sound....handy yes but maybe being older i remember being able to set up pretty quick...practice makes perfect...digital screws up to ,i would say just as much as analogue, all software problems at most gigs nowadays.... easier to travel & less worry yes but i would be worried about the bloke at the mixing desk...some guy's at mixing desk's are in the wrong job imho & experience....oh the joy's of touring if not prepared properly or the right equipment to get your tone right without your backline to mix in or even hear at all...i get upset going straight DI as not my tone i'm hearing in any type of in-ear or stage monitors, but i'm slightly older..lol...God bless himself for Punk Rock '77...when else could you play with just 2 or 3 notes at 130bpm...& the crowds luvved it...lol...you had to have a bit swagger & look the part but you learned to play on the job...fantastic days,when folk could afford tickets or got in for nothing without one anyway...Blink 182 charged £1500 for playing Wembley....it was not a sell out but they are now, the band that done a buck world tour...good to see ethics are still alive...no wonder more kids are getting put off playing now as it is criminally overpriced by old has been's in their '60's & '70's.....most can't even play live now, cough Nikky Six but yet made more money on a tour a few years ago when faking it than they ever did playing live...John 5 what are you doing ?...you have real talent & are kool...& ain't over 60-65 yrs old.....
I love the sound of ampless but just not very practical for my situation.