@@DakuHonoonot automatic, as far as i understand…manually removing the supposed “no no” words/phrases. It’s a huge undertaking on top of creating the content. Great video, though! Thanks for another excellent upload! Appreciate the extra effort that went into this one!
Mussolini hated Austria moustache man so much he didn’t take a translator to their meetings and openly referred to him as a “deranged monkey” in Italian to his face
@@Schmorgot It could be worse... I'm in the Italian Navy and once I heard someone calling another sailor a "Cannone da Saluto caricato a Salve" (Salute cannon loaded with Blanks) referring to his... Lower regions...
@@Lau2856. Basically both French and British goverments had given their approval to the italian invasion, but they didn't take into account the pubblic outrage of their population that followed. So they had to back-track and condem the invasion or risk beeing kicked out of power.
10:29 Not at all impossible! Literally all it would have taken is for Britain and France to have both been just SLIGHTLY less invested in the Great Game, and Italy would have been allowed far more leeway with it's imperial ambitions IN AFRICA, which effectively would have removed the friction point between Italy and the Western Powers.
Right in time for the new HOI 4 DLC coming in November. Austria is getting a national focus tree with Belgium and the Congo too. Also, Hungary is getting it's national focus tree reworked just like Germany too.
Mussolini didn't want to enter in the war so soon ,he told to hitler Italy could be ready in 1943 but Hitler without advise Mussolini invaded Poland in 1939
19:19 What on earth is this map? Germany lost all colonies after WW1 and didn't even briefly regain the same territories during WW2 either. This map shows most German colonies it had before WW1 but strangely Germany has post WW1 borders on that map for some reason. It's just wrong.
I would love to see further exploration of the coalition against germany or the pact of Rome given that germany would still be early into their remilitarization
Small correction: "Duce" does not mean "boss", but, deriving from the Latin "Dux", or "commander [of the army]", litterally "he who leads [the army]", the more correct translation could be "leader" or "commander".
Do a, "What if Stalin Listened To Barbarossa Warning" even if it's unrealistic. It's an interesting topic of how the soviets would perform if they all gave their all in the start!
Not a fan of censoring the word Hitler and the Nazis. Appreciate the logic to it and the sentiment behind it, but in a video focusing on fascism in Europe in the 30s, they are unavoidable words. Other than that, top video.
Mussolini had an atheist communist father and a catholic mother. Mussolini didn’t become a nationalist after the war, he did during the war, but was rejected by his fellow socialists and fled to Switzerland. Mussolini also hated the Mafia and often used his man Cesare Mori to battle them when he got into power. Also, the march on Rome happened AFTER Mussolini got into power, as a show of force of the new government in control. Pretty much all Fascism was corporatist, Mussolini had Syndicalist ambitions, but it didn’t really didn’t take effect, unless if you ask the “Historian” TIKHistory.
Italy couldn't have joined the second ww with the allies, because England, that was the main italian allied, became ostile to Italy before the war, because Italy wanted to make an empire (and that's kinda funny considering that by England here I mean the British Empire).
Great scenario. Couple of notes though that didn't seem considered. 1. Would the mustache have declared war on the US in this timeline? With only Japan as an ally (and would that happen even?) Would he have the stones to declare war? It was him, not Roosevelt that technically brought the "neutral" Americans to Europe. 2. Assuming that the US enters the war and we see the Italian march, which may or may not now drive the need for D-Day altogether, the years of bombing doesn't happen. Yes the allies have better and closer access but does thr scenario suggest that bombing from Italy now effectively replicates a two year bombing campaign so that Germany, German industry and the German economy is sufficiently softened up to a similar degree as 1945? 3. Assume it plays out as suggested, allies invade through Italy. Germany would be forced to withdraw from the USSR. Upon the withdrawal and to support allied invasion efforts, and with a less ravaged USSR the Soviet counter offensive occurs then. Now how that is fought is subject to debate and a stronger, less ravaged German army shorten their supply lines could slow the Soviets, plus because the Red Army doesn't endure the same level of defeat and chaos maybe the military commanders from the purge aren't released, so maybe the Soviets don't have as competent leadership as our timeline, but the most likely result is probably still the race to Berlin so to speak, and the outcome in the East is similar to our own timeline. Minus the facist block in the western Balkans. But as I said it was a well developed and well argued scenario. I'm probably being nitpicky
I don't think the Yugoslav situation would play out the same. Germany wanted Yugoslavia on their side for a long time. With Italian claims on Yugoslavia, Germany would have much more leverage in making a deal beneficial to both them and Yugoslavia. In this scenario Yugoslavia might even join Axis earlier so as to protect itself from Italian pretentions on Dalmatia and Kosovo i Metohija. This would in turn shift Bulgaria heavily to Allies' side if they weren't already, because not only they had claims against Yugoslavia, they were already an Italian client state given the fact Tsar Boris' wife was from the House of Savoy.
I don't think Yugoslavia would have needed to do that, as Italy would have probably be compensated in other ways and be content Yugoslavia was it's client more tgan colony
What if Germany allied with the Balkan nations instead of Italy( like how they had planned to originally), traded slovakia for danzig with the poles and mediated balkan disputes to then invaded the soviets in the name of restoring the Tsar for international support.
If Germany did that World War II would have not happened. Germany would become the peacemaker of the Balkans and Eastern Europe. Germany would also use those nations as buffers between them and the Soviet Union. Germany would then focus on helping Japan in their war against China and form alliances with Iran, Turkey, Egypt and Afghanistan. Germany and its allies would invade the Soviets with Japan's help and they would restore the Russian monarchy with Grand Duke Vladimir Krilliovich of Russia as Tsar.
I could honestly see Germany on the verge of defeat by the time Pearl Harbour would happen. Italians, more Free French, and the British Commonwealth forces that would've otherwise been in North Africa, could collectively be enough to drive the Germans back into Austria and France in those early stages before the Soviets get involved. If Hitler would still hit the Soviets, it would be with a lesser force with less in the way of resources, and German morale would be notably lower. The Brits would have suffered less bombing too, enabling their air campaign to be more effective.
@@twrampage I don't see the US fighting in Europe in this scenario, most likely outcome would be lend lease only and focus attention on stopping Japanese expansion in pacific.
Will Italy fully democratize after the death of Mussolini? Or will the PNF assert their political influence and create a big-tent coalition to become the sole dominant political institution, like the LDP in Japan?
pnf will assert, there really were no real threats to the fascist ideology post ww2 in our timeline, to the point that one of the political descendant of the fascist party is the current ruling party
Maybe in this scenario with northern industries dangerously close to the frontline we could see many of them shifted to southern italy much like it happened in ussr with siberia. This way maybe the north-south divide in italy would have been less
France had to keep some troops on the italian border in case Italy attacked - indeed Italy did attack but the troops France had there were enough to stop them. With an alliance with Italy, there isn't a need for more than the regular peacetime border patrols, allowing these units to be deployed elsewhere, such as in a strategic reserve. Same for some units in North Africa as there isn't a question mark over what may come from italian Libya. France would have an easier time standing, especially as the lack of reserves allowed Rommel's push to be decisive.
Reminds me of an old German joke: - General, sir, the Italians entered the war! - Send a battailon or two, it will stop them. - They entered on our side, sir! - God forbid! Send three armys to support them!
If Italy went to the Allies the initial thought it Germany would be isolated. However I think Germany moves more carefully with demanding any territory and with no Allies seeks an alliance with the only other isolated power in Europe… The USSR also isolated and wanting reclaim territory likely agrees as they did in our time. Granted they agreed after the Allies backed down I don’t think Germany would attempt to fight France, Britain, Italy and either Austria or the Checks without some ally who would join any war if either power ends up in a war with multiple adversaries. The Soviets would likely see this as a way to take more of Poland in order to support Germany then see the benefits of allowing Germany to expend its manpower and military equipment fighting the Allies. Everything probably still happens. The territory is easily defendable from Italy. Germany likely takes out the minor power wasting more equipment but still quickly defeats France. You probably see Italy change sides when France falls then Germany likely invades the Soviets from a far weaker position. However maybe Italy decides to fight on and this keeps Germany from invading the Soviet Union until the British grow tired of U-boats sinking their ships and having no real European front to launch invasions from because mountains are hard to launch of invasions through. I don’t think even Hitler would be foolish enough to try to fight the Soviets, maintain two active fronts with Italy and also having to be prepared for the BEF attempting a landing which would only be possible if Germany attacked the Soviets. I think this would drive Germany and the USSR closer together until the war ends at least.
Several issues with your scenario: 1) mussolini would've invaded Ethiopia anyway. You overexaggerate the consequences of the Ethiopian war, the sanctions levied against Italy were mostly symbolic and the allies were willing to look away if it meant opening a new front. 2) the Anschluss would've not happened or at least not so smoothly without mussolini consenting to it. Italy relenting on Austrian Independence was due to the pact of steel. 3) likewise, the Munich conference on the sudetes was Mussolini's idea. Without his mediation, the war might have broken out over Czechoslovakia in 1938 instead.
Hi, i disagree on the first point: at first i thought it too, but when you look at the military equipment and all it's shortcomings (for example the bad quality boots) there is a lot of stuff that was made with inadequate materials due to sanctions.
1) Yes, but Long may have not cared much 2) Perhaps, but it would have been more difficult 3) Germany wasn't ready when they invaded Austria and Czechoslovakia ( who had a good military and industry) they would have lost quickly
@@biobomb93 not really. The biggest issue with Italian supply during WW2 was the utter depletion of the stocks due to the Ethiopian and Spanish wars. The sanctions were also removed or anyway strongly diminished later. During the winter 39-40 Britain was still supplying Italy with coal, steel and oil.
@@NoName-hg6cc Hitler absolutely wanted war over Czechoslovakia, even if as you said they were not ready (or at least it wouldn't have been as easy as with Poland) Actually, even after the invasion of Poland mussolini tried to host another Munich conference, but the allies demanded the full withdrawal of Germany from Poland and Hitler didn't want to stop his invasion because of the molotov von Ribbentrop Agreement anyway. Btw Mussolini was not aware of the full stipulations of the molotov von Ribbentrop Agreement
I could be wrong but I’m pretty sure Self-Determinism was Woodrow Wilson’s brainchild as part of his 14(?) points at the Treaty of Versailles that ended World War I, not World War II. In fact, it was that self determinism that led in part to the dissolution of Austria-Hungary, which simultaneously set the stage for not only the Anschluss, but also more general German and Soviet aggression and influence at the crossroads of Central and Eastern Europe
I don't think Italy would have held as well as it did because in our timeline the german occupied large parts fairly easily even after losing most of the peninsula but otherwise most of the video makes sense
Germany occupied Italy easily because most of its army was away, Italians were tired of 3 years of war and the King ran away without leaving instructions!
All very interesting from an Anglo-perspective. “Duce” means “leader” not boss (similar but different”. Also, there’s something strange going on with the voice over, have a look at that (just a professional tip nothing more than that)
Excellent video, but sad Italy wasn’t gifted or held onto Corsica after the war. Sad face. 😞 P.S. Can you do a video where Oswald Mosley remained in the Labor Party and built up his power base within it and became Prime Minister of Britain?
I originally had this as an uncensored video but RUclips put it in monetization purgatory for 36 hours straight until I reuploaded a censored version. It’s very unfortunate, especially as I’d rather not ruin the quality of the content by saying things like “Austrian Moustache Man” or “No-No Germans” like other more pop history oriented RUclipsrs do.
Another interesting idea is Japan and German were actually at odds with Germany supporting the Chinese Nationalists. Perhaps the Pact of Steel would never have been signed at all.
I feel like a lot of Mussolini history leaves out influence from Marinetti. Futurism played a huge part in Fascism's violence, with the only difference being that Futurism was completely anti-traditional. Otherwise interesting vid 👍
The allies would have certainly seized austria first instead of being split so Austria wouldnt be neutral but instead join NATO. I agree that Chezchia would join NATO too.
This is bad this what if has to start by Italy successfully protecting Austria and its Austro-fascism. If there is a fight and it is in the Austrian mountain not in Italy.
Nazi Germany had no colonies. Germany lost all of its colonies after WWI. I'm not sure that the Nazi invasion of Yugoslavia would have happened in this timeline. There are two possibilities. One, it's quite possible in this timeline, Yugoslavia would have remained neutral. In that case I don't think Hitler would have bothered invading it because that would just be a distraction from Barbarosa. In our timeline, Hitler invaded Yugoslavia because it pulled out of the Axis and to rescue Italy who was losing its war with Greece which wouldn't have happened in this timeline with Italy allied with the West. The second possibility is that in this timeline, Yugoslavia joining the Axis may have stuck because of Italy's territorial ambitions in Dalmatia. Yugoslavia remaining in the Axis would have eliminated the need for a Nazi invasion. I'm not sure what affect Italy now having to battle both Germany and Yugoslavia on its borders would have had. The Luftwaffe and the Yugoslav air force may have bombed Italy from Yugoslav territory. A blitz for Italy? Maybe. If Yugoslavia remained neutral, it seems like the allies could have made it to Warsaw before the Soviets and also possibly taken all of Eastern Europe with Hungary, Romania, and Bulgaria surrendering to the Western allies after the fall of Nazi Germany. They may have never even allied with Nazi Germany in the first place because all three had close ties to Fascist Italy.
In that future, the Italian underworld would see some terrible post-war decades with the reduction of the three underworld groups in their public influence and their members driven underground for foreign nations not part of the international extradition treaty🤓
@ RUclips restricts the video’s reach, meaning that it doesn’t actually show up in anyone’s feed and you have to access it directly though the channel, this basically kills the video Not to mention RUclips restricting and demonetizing the videos
with the extra forces made availiable to the Allies there is simply ZERO chjance of France falling it was a close run thing IRL but France will have 20+ additional divisions most of them elite divisions and Germant would also have to divert at least 40 Divisions to the Alpine Front
So much censure It almost sound like you have a hiccup. :) Does youtube really domonetise for so little? I understand mantaining a clean platform but.......... this is starting to become concerning
You're a small minded person if you think that's incoherent. Economic inequality is a condition for economic progress and the enrichment of all. Equality is a foolish pipe dream. Even the Germans, under a certain regime, fought against this silly idea.
If Fascist Italy had sided with the Allies, they would have had to send two divisions to hold the mountain passes, AND twenty divisions to give them a backbone.
Never watched a more inaccurate video in my life, complete lack of knowledge of italian history and WW2 history in general. horrible or no research was done at all to make this
Sigh...no Italy didn't switch sides during WWII, the south was " liberated" by the allies, and the North was still under the fascist , under the Republica di Salò. So the Italian army also was split in two, and now they must face each other. So from the Italian perspective it was a civil war basically, for the allies and fascists was just a continuation of the hostilities
Apologies for the delay on this video. I had to navigate RUclips's monetization gymnasium
did you censor it yourself by cutting frames or was it automatic?
Germany did not retain colonies alfter ww1, you did a big mistake, the norther african capaine is impossible
@@DakuHonoonot automatic, as far as i understand…manually removing the supposed “no no” words/phrases. It’s a huge undertaking on top of creating the content. Great video, though! Thanks for another excellent upload! Appreciate the extra effort that went into this one!
Mussolini hated Austria moustache man so much he didn’t take a translator to their meetings and openly referred to him as a “deranged monkey” in Italian to his face
lol this has got to be the funniest thing I’ve read in a while 🤣
@@Schmorgot
In Italian, the term is even funnier: "Scimmia Degenerata".
@@LorenzoFerrari-d5e Me pulling up to the insult competition but my opponent is Mussolini without a translator
@@Schmorgot
It could be worse... I'm in the Italian Navy and once I heard someone calling another sailor a "Cannone da Saluto caricato a Salve" (Salute cannon loaded with Blanks) referring to his... Lower regions...
@@LorenzoFerrari-d5e I wish I had the ability to come up with jokes as good as that lol
The idea of Italy being the sixth member of, or replacing U.S.S.R. as the permanent member of the United Nations Security Council intrigues me.
They couldn't even Greece in 1v1 and had to call the daddy to fix it. That and a state that caught up in nuclear weapons in 3 years.
Or maybe them being the 7th member
Fascism would've been seen like how communism is instead of being lumped in with nazism.
@@VegitoBlue202 no
Facts.
That's why we are all fascists nowadays
@@bernhardjordan9200 who are we?
@@Deepfried_duck the ocident ,
Always trust a Muffinman.
Mr Z. Will your channel return to Alternate history or will it remain focused on Contemporary politics?
not always if it's edp445...
the muffin man?
@@P1kaSans the muffin man!!!
Does he live on Drury Lane?
Why did the 2 countries controlling 80% of africa get mad over ethiopia?
League of Nations reasons and Ethiopia survived the Scramble for Africa and created good relationships with Britian and French in 1904
@@Lau2856. Basically both French and British goverments had given their approval to the italian invasion, but they didn't take into account the pubblic outrage of their population that followed.
So they had to back-track and condem the invasion or risk beeing kicked out of power.
They liked eating the all pie and they forget that “sharing is caring” 😂
Maybe they like coffee
10:29 Not at all impossible! Literally all it would have taken is for Britain and France to have both been just SLIGHTLY less invested in the Great Game, and Italy would have been allowed far more leeway with it's imperial ambitions IN AFRICA, which effectively would have removed the friction point between Italy and the Western Powers.
Right in time for the new HOI 4 DLC coming in November. Austria is getting a national focus tree with Belgium and the Congo too. Also, Hungary is getting it's national focus tree reworked just like Germany too.
Fun fact: Mussolini has a brief job as a elementry school teacher before ruling italy
@@bumblerah5883 So, that's why he was so good at national politics.
The masses are barely above children.
Mussolini didn't want to enter in the war so soon ,he told to hitler Italy could be ready in 1943 but Hitler without advise Mussolini invaded Poland in 1939
19:19 What on earth is this map? Germany lost all colonies after WW1 and didn't even briefly regain the same territories during WW2 either. This map shows most German colonies it had before WW1 but strangely Germany has post WW1 borders on that map for some reason. It's just wrong.
@@kygigni not to mention pre-1912 Kamerun
Maybe they forgot to take the colonies in the peace treaty.
good video man
As an Italian enjoyer, learning Italian, always trying to make Italy as op as possible in any alt history scenario i make lol.
Thanks as an Italian/Roman
As an Italian, I would have liked this outcome
I would love to see further exploration of the coalition against germany or the pact of Rome given that germany would still be early into their remilitarization
Small correction: "Duce" does not mean "boss", but, deriving from the Latin "Dux", or "commander [of the army]", litterally "he who leads [the army]", the more correct translation could be "leader" or "commander".
Italian equivalent to "Fuhrer"
I really enjoyed the video and it would be cool to see a part 2 of this video exploring this Cold War era Italy
Thanks For this Guys! Love your content ❤❤❤
What if the Russian Empire survived in Siberia and Alaska? Great video, a western aligned Italy during WW2 would change alot of things.
❤❤
he did a video about that before but now its gone for some reason
Alaska isn’t happening it had long been American by that point
@@PluralOfSillyGoose Easily solved by it not being sold.
Do a, "What if Stalin Listened To Barbarossa Warning" even if it's unrealistic. It's an interesting topic of how the soviets would perform if they all gave their all in the start!
Not a fan of censoring the word Hitler and the Nazis. Appreciate the logic to it and the sentiment behind it, but in a video focusing on fascism in Europe in the 30s, they are unavoidable words. Other than that, top video.
@@ThomasSmithThomas My thought too. RUclips censorship is insane!
This alternat version of Italy and France would have crushed the Turkish invasion of Cyprus
Italy shall redeem their performance in the previous war
It did happen during WW2 and it's called the Italian resistance against Germany as a co-belligerent of the Allies.
Precious war?
very interesting scenario. The word fascist certainly wouldn't be as overused as it is now
Mussolini had an atheist communist father and a catholic mother. Mussolini didn’t become a nationalist after the war, he did during the war, but was rejected by his fellow socialists and fled to Switzerland. Mussolini also hated the Mafia and often used his man Cesare Mori to battle them when he got into power. Also, the march on Rome happened AFTER Mussolini got into power, as a show of force of the new government in control. Pretty much all Fascism was corporatist, Mussolini had Syndicalist ambitions, but it didn’t really didn’t take effect, unless if you ask the “Historian” TIKHistory.
Italy couldn't have joined the second ww with the allies, because England, that was the main italian allied, became ostile to Italy before the war, because Italy wanted to make an empire (and that's kinda funny considering that by England here I mean the British Empire).
This was the wiser decition for italy then go axies 😅
Great scenario. Couple of notes though that didn't seem considered.
1. Would the mustache have declared war on the US in this timeline? With only Japan as an ally (and would that happen even?) Would he have the stones to declare war? It was him, not Roosevelt that technically brought the "neutral" Americans to Europe.
2. Assuming that the US enters the war and we see the Italian march, which may or may not now drive the need for D-Day altogether, the years of bombing doesn't happen. Yes the allies have better and closer access but does thr scenario suggest that bombing from Italy now effectively replicates a two year bombing campaign so that Germany, German industry and the German economy is sufficiently softened up to a similar degree as 1945?
3. Assume it plays out as suggested, allies invade through Italy. Germany would be forced to withdraw from the USSR. Upon the withdrawal and to support allied invasion efforts, and with a less ravaged USSR the Soviet counter offensive occurs then. Now how that is fought is subject to debate and a stronger, less ravaged German army shorten their supply lines could slow the Soviets, plus because the Red Army doesn't endure the same level of defeat and chaos maybe the military commanders from the purge aren't released, so maybe the Soviets don't have as competent leadership as our timeline, but the most likely result is probably still the race to Berlin so to speak, and the outcome in the East is similar to our own timeline. Minus the facist block in the western Balkans.
But as I said it was a well developed and well argued scenario. I'm probably being nitpicky
I don't think the Yugoslav situation would play out the same. Germany wanted Yugoslavia on their side for a long time. With Italian claims on Yugoslavia, Germany would have much more leverage in making a deal beneficial to both them and Yugoslavia. In this scenario Yugoslavia might even join Axis earlier so as to protect itself from Italian pretentions on Dalmatia and Kosovo i Metohija. This would in turn shift Bulgaria heavily to Allies' side if they weren't already, because not only they had claims against Yugoslavia, they were already an Italian client state given the fact Tsar Boris' wife was from the House of Savoy.
I like this take
I don't think Yugoslavia would have needed to do that, as Italy would have probably be compensated in other ways and be content Yugoslavia was it's client more tgan colony
It would be very interesting! A Europe divided between fascism, communism and capitalism...
I always appreciate 3 way Cold War scenarios.
It’s here
Took em long enough
What if Germany allied with the Balkan nations instead of Italy( like how they had planned to originally), traded slovakia for danzig with the poles and mediated balkan disputes to then invaded the soviets in the name of restoring the Tsar for international support.
If Germany did that World War II would have not happened. Germany would become the peacemaker of the Balkans and Eastern Europe.
Germany would also use those nations as buffers between them and the Soviet Union. Germany would then focus on helping Japan in their war against China and form alliances with Iran, Turkey, Egypt and Afghanistan.
Germany and its allies would invade the Soviets with Japan's help and they would restore the Russian monarchy with Grand Duke Vladimir Krilliovich of Russia as Tsar.
@@N.Aristotle how would they restore the tsar if they were all murdered in the Russian Revolution
> Nazis
>Restoring the Tsar
Concerning their ideology, they would prefer Rodazoveshky or something.
@@zandrus9191 or Sergey Taboritsky
At 19:10 Please note that Germany had already lost ALL their colonies after World War One.
I could honestly see Germany on the verge of defeat by the time Pearl Harbour would happen. Italians, more Free French, and the British Commonwealth forces that would've otherwise been in North Africa, could collectively be enough to drive the Germans back into Austria and France in those early stages before the Soviets get involved.
If Hitler would still hit the Soviets, it would be with a lesser force with less in the way of resources, and German morale would be notably lower. The Brits would have suffered less bombing too, enabling their air campaign to be more effective.
@@twrampage I don't see the US fighting in Europe in this scenario, most likely outcome would be lend lease only and focus attention on stopping Japanese expansion in pacific.
@@chaddog313 Yeah, quite likely.
It might well mean that the invasion of the Japanese home islands goes ahead in this sped up timeline.
Great video
I wonder if Yugoslavia would fall under the Italian sphere, or at least Croatia & Slovenia
Do a "What if the Pahlavi Dynasty was not overthown?" Scenario plesse.
The good timeline
Will Italy fully democratize after the death of Mussolini? Or will the PNF assert their political influence and create a big-tent coalition to become the sole dominant political institution, like the LDP in Japan?
pnf will assert, there really were no real threats to the fascist ideology post ww2 in our timeline, to the point that one of the political descendant of the fascist party is the current ruling party
Maybe in this scenario with northern industries dangerously close to the frontline we could see many of them shifted to southern italy much like it happened in ussr with siberia. This way maybe the north-south divide in italy would have been less
France had to keep some troops on the italian border in case Italy attacked - indeed Italy did attack but the troops France had there were enough to stop them.
With an alliance with Italy, there isn't a need for more than the regular peacetime border patrols, allowing these units to be deployed elsewhere, such as in a strategic reserve. Same for some units in North Africa as there isn't a question mark over what may come from italian Libya. France would have an easier time standing, especially as the lack of reserves allowed Rommel's push to be decisive.
Reminds me of an old German joke:
- General, sir, the Italians entered the war!
- Send a battailon or two, it will stop them.
- They entered on our side, sir!
- God forbid! Send three armys to support them!
Like the old joke goes Italians only lost with Germany when they were allies!
Or also: Germany, win some battles, lose the war 😂
If Italy went to the Allies the initial thought it Germany would be isolated. However I think Germany moves more carefully with demanding any territory and with no Allies seeks an alliance with the only other isolated power in Europe… The USSR also isolated and wanting reclaim territory likely agrees as they did in our time. Granted they agreed after the Allies backed down I don’t think Germany would attempt to fight France, Britain, Italy and either Austria or the Checks without some ally who would join any war if either power ends up in a war with multiple adversaries. The Soviets would likely see this as a way to take more of Poland in order to support Germany then see the benefits of allowing Germany to expend its manpower and military equipment fighting the Allies. Everything probably still happens. The territory is easily defendable from Italy. Germany likely takes out the minor power wasting more equipment but still quickly defeats France. You probably see Italy change sides when France falls then Germany likely invades the Soviets from a far weaker position. However maybe Italy decides to fight on and this keeps Germany from invading the Soviet Union until the British grow tired of U-boats sinking their ships and having no real European front to launch invasions from because mountains are hard to launch of invasions through. I don’t think even Hitler would be foolish enough to try to fight the Soviets, maintain two active fronts with Italy and also having to be prepared for the BEF attempting a landing which would only be possible if Germany attacked the Soviets. I think this would drive Germany and the USSR closer together until the war ends at least.
Sisisisisisisisisisi
Si?
💚🤍❤
Lore of What if Mussolini joined the Allies in World War Two? | Alternate History momentum 100
Several issues with your scenario:
1) mussolini would've invaded Ethiopia anyway. You overexaggerate the consequences of the Ethiopian war, the sanctions levied against Italy were mostly symbolic and the allies were willing to look away if it meant opening a new front.
2) the Anschluss would've not happened or at least not so smoothly without mussolini consenting to it. Italy relenting on Austrian Independence was due to the pact of steel.
3) likewise, the Munich conference on the sudetes was Mussolini's idea. Without his mediation, the war might have broken out over Czechoslovakia in 1938 instead.
Hi, i disagree on the first point: at first i thought it too, but when you look at the military equipment and all it's shortcomings (for example the bad quality boots) there is a lot of stuff that was made with inadequate materials due to sanctions.
1) Yes, but Long may have not cared much
2) Perhaps, but it would have been more difficult
3) Germany wasn't ready when they invaded Austria and Czechoslovakia ( who had a good military and industry) they would have lost quickly
@@biobomb93 not really. The biggest issue with Italian supply during WW2 was the utter depletion of the stocks due to the Ethiopian and Spanish wars. The sanctions were also removed or anyway strongly diminished later. During the winter 39-40 Britain was still supplying Italy with coal, steel and oil.
@@NoName-hg6cc Hitler absolutely wanted war over Czechoslovakia, even if as you said they were not ready (or at least it wouldn't have been as easy as with Poland)
Actually, even after the invasion of Poland mussolini tried to host another Munich conference, but the allies demanded the full withdrawal of Germany from Poland and Hitler didn't want to stop his invasion because of the molotov von Ribbentrop Agreement anyway.
Btw Mussolini was not aware of the full stipulations of the molotov von Ribbentrop Agreement
@M-tl4xt Yes, the war would have ended in a swift victory for the allies, though. Unless USSR intervened
What if Europe didn't feared Russia's potential?
What if 19 century europe let religion dictate their geopolitical diplomacy?
Either all forms of socialism are incoherent, or none are.
God bless TIKHistory.
I could be wrong but I’m pretty sure Self-Determinism was Woodrow Wilson’s brainchild as part of his 14(?) points at the Treaty of Versailles that ended World War I, not World War II. In fact, it was that self determinism that led in part to the dissolution of Austria-Hungary, which simultaneously set the stage for not only the Anschluss, but also more general German and Soviet aggression and influence at the crossroads of Central and Eastern Europe
Why do the colors sometimes randomly change brightness?
Yas!! The Duce shall rise again.
I don't think Italy would have held as well as it did because in our timeline the german occupied large parts fairly easily even after losing most of the peninsula but otherwise most of the video makes sense
Germany occupied Italy easily because most of its army was away, Italians were tired of 3 years of war and the King ran away without leaving instructions!
@@NoName-hg6cc sure but italy's army was terrible the entire war
@micahistory Most of the time it undeperformed, but not always and Germany would have to cross the Alps
@@NoName-hg6cc yeah
All very interesting from an Anglo-perspective. “Duce” means “leader” not boss (similar but different”. Also, there’s something strange going on with the voice over, have a look at that (just a professional tip nothing more than that)
The voice over seems fine, what's wrong with it?
Excellent video. I'm glad you took one of my suggestions! 👍👍
What if Japan joined the Allies?
I think that Italy might be able to talk France into giving Corsica to them as the island is Italian formally under the Roman Empire.
Excellent video, but sad Italy wasn’t gifted or held onto Corsica after the war. Sad face. 😞
P.S. Can you do a video where Oswald Mosley remained in the Labor Party and built up his power base within it and became Prime Minister of Britain?
If Italo Balbo had been leader, Italy would have been Allied from the start.
I hate how you have to cencor hitler nazi and other things does youtube really hate the words that mush
It ruins the story telling
I originally had this as an uncensored video but RUclips put it in monetization purgatory for 36 hours straight until I reuploaded a censored version. It’s very unfortunate, especially as I’d rather not ruin the quality of the content by saying things like “Austrian Moustache Man” or “No-No Germans” like other more pop history oriented RUclipsrs do.
@@DeanMonsieur so r u gonna put the uncensored version it on patriot?? Maybe one day or so
if I am correct he didn’t lead the march on Rome he was at the Swiss border to enter if it failed
Oh so THIS is why I love black button down shirts
Why do colors always slightly change shortly after something got animated?
Mussolini never stopped being a socialist. Fascism is socialism with a nationalist flavour (opposed to communism which is Internationalist).
Another interesting idea is Japan and German were actually at odds with Germany supporting the Chinese Nationalists. Perhaps the Pact of Steel would never have been signed at all.
Is this a better or worse Italian timeline
@@JoboGamezzz far better
Far far better
Better W dvx W l'Italia
I feel like a lot of Mussolini history leaves out influence from Marinetti. Futurism played a huge part in Fascism's violence, with the only difference being that Futurism was completely anti-traditional. Otherwise interesting vid 👍
This is how it should have gone...
The allies would have certainly seized austria first instead of being split so Austria wouldnt be neutral but instead join NATO. I agree that Chezchia would join NATO too.
Why is the name Hitler bleeped out?
RUclips
Monetization
RUclips is run by cuck liberals
@@AmericanImperium1776 (((You)))Tube
to make sure the people forget history so they later repeat history
This is bad this what if has to start by Italy successfully protecting Austria and its Austro-fascism. If there is a fight and it is in the Austrian mountain not in Italy.
Nazi Germany had no colonies. Germany lost all of its colonies after WWI. I'm not sure that the Nazi invasion of Yugoslavia would have happened in this timeline. There are two possibilities. One, it's quite possible in this timeline, Yugoslavia would have remained neutral. In that case I don't think Hitler would have bothered invading it because that would just be a distraction from Barbarosa. In our timeline, Hitler invaded Yugoslavia because it pulled out of the Axis and to rescue Italy who was losing its war with Greece which wouldn't have happened in this timeline with Italy allied with the West. The second possibility is that in this timeline, Yugoslavia joining the Axis may have stuck because of Italy's territorial ambitions in Dalmatia. Yugoslavia remaining in the Axis would have eliminated the need for a Nazi invasion. I'm not sure what affect Italy now having to battle both Germany and Yugoslavia on its borders would have had. The Luftwaffe and the Yugoslav air force may have bombed Italy from Yugoslav territory. A blitz for Italy? Maybe. If Yugoslavia remained neutral, it seems like the allies could have made it to Warsaw before the Soviets and also possibly taken all of Eastern Europe with Hungary, Romania, and Bulgaria surrendering to the Western allies after the fall of Nazi Germany. They may have never even allied with Nazi Germany in the first place because all three had close ties to Fascist Italy.
Wouldnt a better time to invade be during the sudeten crisis or anchluss?
0:00 That is why you dont become a dependant.
4:14 Fascism is a somewhat incoherent philosophy. You don't say.
In that future, the Italian underworld would see some terrible post-war decades with the reduction of the three underworld groups in their public influence and their members driven underground for foreign nations not part of the international extradition treaty🤓
Nah we'd be the best country in the world not having influence from 3rd world usa degeneracy😔🙏sadly didn't happen
Interesting video, what is up with the muting of: Nazi/s, Hitler etc? History is History.
@@towgod7985 RUclips shadowbans you for saying bad words they don’t like, better to not take the risk
@Weweta OK, Now I 'am really curious, what does shadowban entail?
@ RUclips restricts the video’s reach, meaning that it doesn’t actually show up in anyone’s feed and you have to access it directly though the channel, this basically kills the video
Not to mention RUclips restricting and demonetizing the videos
with the extra forces made availiable to the Allies there is simply ZERO chjance of France falling it was a close run thing IRL but France will have 20+ additional divisions most of them elite divisions and Germant would also have to divert at least 40 Divisions to the Alpine Front
Why can I watch this from RUclips music?
So much censure
It almost sound like you have a hiccup. :)
Does youtube really domonetise for so little?
I understand mantaining a clean platform but.......... this is starting to become concerning
Is it just me or is the history/context segment getting longer and longer
I yap a lot
Next week’s is shorter don’t worry 😂
In all honesty I somehow see this as helping germany more than it helps the allies.
Real Strassa Front hours
it would lead to Allies loosing the war
That's la Campanella in the background
You're a small minded person if you think that's incoherent. Economic inequality is a condition for economic progress and the enrichment of all. Equality is a foolish pipe dream. Even the Germans, under a certain regime, fought against this silly idea.
@@jobloluther fascism doesnt work
A minot erroryou said the allies invaded italy in1934 not 1943
Mussolini would be like Franco.
If Fascist Italy had sided with the Allies, they would have had to send two divisions to hold the mountain passes, AND twenty divisions to give them a backbone.
Italy beat Russia with knights and made Brits sweat to beat us in North Africa and Mediterranean stop using propaganda
If Italy had to fight for the Allies it would have to fight in France and Italy and probably win while French and English recreated
19:19 What colonies?
Before the German empire fell, it used to have colonies in Africa and the pacific.
9:34 That is a really $h1t pixelation job.
Never watched a more inaccurate video in my life, complete lack of knowledge of italian history and WW2 history in general. horrible or no research was done at all to make this
How so?
Halk tuah fries in bag
This comment doesn't belong here
This comment doesn't belong anywhere
@@3bydacreekside it belongs here
@@surobyk Hawktuahlini
Heil Europa
What
Fascism is the way for the modern World.
Like how the country who betrayed its allies (yes, yes, it was a defensive alliance) complain about getting cheated.
@@JLAvey Austria broke the treaties of the 3ple alliance first during the bosnian crisis
Sigh...no Italy didn't switch sides during WWII, the south was " liberated" by the allies, and the North was still under the fascist , under the Republica di Salò. So the Italian army also was split in two, and now they must face each other. So from the Italian perspective it was a civil war basically, for the allies and fascists was just a continuation of the hostilities
That is why I described it as a “pop history” notion of Italy during World War II
The Allies would most certainly have lost with Italy on their side
Mussolini didn't abandon the Socialist cause, he switched to a different kind of Socialism.
Exactly. Not all socialists are Marxists.
700th like
the stupidly censored videos are unwatchable.
I sure will NOT join.
Bye forever.