It’s more like why would you want to make the vegan food to look like or taste look like meat? It’s like a cannibal went vegan but make food look like human or human parts also taste like human and call it human organs name… don’t you think that’s gross?
I think Kenji put it perfectly in his crispy oven fried wings video; “language is used to communicate things. If I say ‘oven fried’ you know that they’re like fried wings but I baked them in the oven.”
I see what you're saying because saying "vegan meatball" is the easiest way of describing the food and it will give you a pretty accurate idea of what to expect. So in that sense it's the most accurate and clear description. But it's very unclear contradictory in another sense, because obviously it can't be a MEAT ball if it's vegan, so that's probably where the confusion comes from.
Ironic because those two ideas are actually contradictory in most cases. The more specific you try to be the less efficient it becomes. Language is about striking an appropriate balance between specificity and efficiency.
@GlimB There is no better way to say it though. Also meat does not always equate meat in every language. In german there is "fruit meat" which is the edible part of citrus fruits like oranges. Saying "round pea protien balls" just won't make you think of what it actually is, a meatless meatball
I’d rather be told what it actually is ,then further explained if I don’t understand. I understand the concept and intention of vegan imitation foods but it’s still misleading .. I don’t want to participate in eating something that is not fully transparent from the start. I don’t have hate towards vegans . However I don’t trust or respect them if they don’t name things for what they are. I have tried many different vegan foods. Some are okay. But putting a steamed carrot with yeast extract and soy sauce then calling it a hotdog is absurd.
@@chanceDdog2009 but if you're okay with being further explained if you don't understand, and you don't understand it being called vegan meat, is that not just the exact same situation for you...? Like, clearly if you were given "vegan____," your first reaction would be to say "How do you make ____ vegan?"
Also, as a vegetarian, I wanted to add one more thing: it helps us distinguish between what products are meant to taste like meat versus which will taste like veggies . If I see "smoky tempeh," I'm expecting it to taste like tempeh, but if I see "plant based bak'n" I'm expecting it to at least resemble bacon
That makes a lot of sense, actually. I'll admit I can get nitpicky when it comes to meat names for plantbased food, but if think about it, I'm more annoyed at a certain grocery chain in my country. They've been pushing their own line of vegan products and claiming it's "for the environment" when it's obvious they just want to line their pockets selling vegetables for meat prices. I guess I've been projecting that on all vegans😅
Smoky is an adjective. It's a suitable descriptor. Bacon, though, is a noun, referring to a very specific thing with flavor profiles and basic physiological response triggers that imitators can't possible expect to mimic. It might be useful to people already practicing vegetarian diets, but it's the worst possible PR move for trying to "spread the good word" and try to get people to eat more vegetable content in their diets.
@@sean-in-wnc the idea is to make it taste like bacon though. If it's trying to taste like a unique thing, like be a substitute, then it's fair that it would just be referred to based on its ingredients. But if it's trying to imitate a certain food, then I think the naming mechanism they use is apt, although it risks not actually tasting like what it's supposed to, which can alienate people from it. plenty of meat substitutes do a good job of tasting similar to what they're replacing. Generally the issue I have is texture, at least in my limited experience.
Even as a meat eater, I can understand that just because someone decides for ethical reasons they are vegan, it does not necessarily mean they dislike the taste of animal products. It makes sense, especially if you grew up eating animal products, that you'd be interested in meals that 'replicate' those comforing meals and flavour profiles.
vegetarian* majority of vegans are those that shove veganism down peoples throats with a small amount of them being dom estic terror ists, Vegetarians dont eat meat, but still use aminal by-products. Vegans on the far end are the ones blocking traffic and camping out blocking butcher shops and plants, and violating food security laws. there are some vegans that just want to live their lives in their own world, then there is the far end.
THANK YOU. It's like people can't comprehend others making lifestyle choices for reasons other than personal preference. Or maybe they don't want to admit that veganism is an ethical stance rather than a silly dietary fad
100% agree, i love meat but its expensive and not the healthiest always. Thats why i love channels that teach ways of making meat dishes meat free so i can hopefully get closer to a diet with a lot less meat
Omg must be tough be persecuted like that all the time Try being queer, non white, disabled, fat etc 😘 (Obviously idk if you're any of those things, but given your comment, it's seems unlikely)
@@439801RS try being white we get a lot of anti-hate if thats the proper word because oh we had shitty ancestors just like everyone else and lots of the uber rich are white
plus, it's not impossible to just explain the new name. With the professional yap artists that most vegans are, this shouldn't be a problem. They're leaning on the culinary attractiveness of meat to sell their noncomparable products
Also important to note that the practice of calling milk-like substances "whatever-milk" is literally like thousands of years old. Nutmilk (get it out of your system) is not a particularly complex thing to come up with and we are not the first to do so.
If platypus milk can exist without platypus nipples, i don't see why coconut milk can't exist without coconut nipples. (This comment is a joke. I just wanted an excuse to share the weird fact I know. That fact being that Platypuses excrete their milk through their skin and not through a nipple like other mammals do.)
I assume those people correcting people about vegan meat or coconut milk are just technical geniuses via Seanbaby. “You're smart enough to spot a technicality, but too dumb to know everyone else did too and it was light years away from the point.”
@@GodlyDra you should get an ocd or autism assessment (not an insult btw i hope you're doing ok but that's not a regular behavior for most people afaik and could very well be a sign of neurodivergence)
@@GodlyDra you can just imagine the word "imitation" in the phrase if it helps. Vegan imitation meat or coconut imitation milk are both correct and clear in their meaning
I just call it the chicken sandwich if there's breading on the chicken, and the grilled chicken sandwich otherwise. It'd be a chicken burger of it was ground chicken, but that would be gross and I'd rather just have a chicken sandwich.
Only if by "chicken burger", they mean "ground chicken shaped into a patty", and not "fried chicken". Just like how I have no problem with a vegan burger, or a vegetarian cheeseburger.. but cheese is required for a cheeseburger, and coagulated soy juice is not cheese.
this has got to be one of my top 10 annoyances in food communities and it seems to always come from bad faith commenters who are just looking to cause conflict.. Like yes, everybody knows almond milk isn't really milk. the "milk" part is a descriptior letting you know its color, taste and consistency are intended to make it a potential replacement for milk, and everybody understands that is isn't really milk from a mammal. but some people insist on being snarky about such things, saying "just call it juice", when that name would imply an entirely different purpose in the kitchen and would not properly convey what it is intended for. and calling it "Almond-derived milk substitute" is just too wordsome for a normal person conversation. as long as you have the Neccessary qualifiers that make it clear you arent consuming the thing ( milk, burger, etc) its perfectly acceptable language that 99% of the poulation understands without having to be explained that is isn't the "real" thing. the only people regularly being stnarky about it are the pople who for some reason or another aren not happy with the idea of such alternatives existing in the first place.
@@jennyknopps1291 Big Milk (actually a thing) has spent decades and billions upon billions on lobbying governments to do things like advertise cow milk in schools, etc. - and when plant-based milks started getting popular they set their sights on getting legislation passed to prevent almond/oat/etc. milk from being described milk. It's largely promoted not because of any positive health effects (in fact a number of the 'commonly known' positive health effects aren't supported by science), it's because these companies spend an absurd amount of money on it.
I think what’s especially annoying is when they call it something new and then people comment dumb shit like “oh so it’s a burger with no meat”. You can’t win. It leaks into all food content comments, it is so annoying. Like the cowboy caviar discourse.
As a carnivore myself I really don’t understand the comments made on vegan accounts. Vegans dont not like meat. They don’t eat meat for various reasons like the environment or the well-being of animals it has nothing to do with taste or anything 😭
You are mostly right, but I actually am revolted by most meat and have been vegetarian my whole life because of it...but yeah I'm vegan for all the other reasons you implied lol
i have been vegetarian for 7 years, and even before that, i did not like meat. i thought anything on a bone (like chicken legs) was disgusting. pork grossed me out. but it was all that was given to me and i had to eat. meat is also super normal to eat and is encouraged to eat as the "main" for every meal (except maybe breakfast, where sausage and bacon are more like sides). not to mention meat-free options + protein substitutes like chick'n nuggets just weren't around years ago / weren't easily accessible. if i had vegetarian options available as a kid, maybe i wouldn't have gone hungry so often.
But most of their reasons are bs. Vegans do way more harm to the environment than meat eaters and it's not even close. Pretty sure you don't have to wipe out the entire wildlife in the area to raise a cow.
I'm a vegetarian and I like the taste of meat. Even after 9 years, I'm still cooking smoky walnuts hoping they will taste more like bacon. Still don't eat bacon
thank you for this man 😭 whenever i read those comments i just want to scream "are you really that stupid or are you just trying to rage bait??" it's always "erm why vegan eat something that isn't meat if they don't eat meat? checkmate liberal i am very smart" god forbid we try new things!! why does calling vegan "meat" meat make them seethe so hard like they own the word meat
At this point i just dismiss most comments like that as actual industrial astroturfing, if nothing else it's best for your mental health to assume that it's just a team of people making 50000 accounts to post propaganda.
Sometimes people are really that stupid... Sometimes it's people seeing anger as a fun thing. Sometimes it's both... Not vegan at all, but Vegetarian and Vegan food chefs are one of the more creative people on the platform. Like seriously, some of their stuff are incredibly sustainable and cheap... Probably would be helpful if your budget is tight. And I absolutely never get why the hate... For Industrial sized out of touch corporate trying to cash in on Vegetarianism... Sure, they're out of touch after all. But for at home cooks and stuff? Really? You saw a person made curry with incredibly cheap ingredients and you're mad at that?
They're really showing their ignorance because the word "meat" originally means ANY kind of food, not just flesh. "Meat and drink" meant you were going have a meal, not that it had to include a hunk of animal.
Samuel Johnson's first dictionary from 1755 lists almond milk as one definition of milk. There are written recipes from 1000 years ago, and even English language ones from as early as 1390.
vegans would be in heaven if i gave them a vegan chicken sanwitch with chicken, and tel them why it taste so good. I will just tell them "the chicken only ate vegetable and no bugs or other animals.
honestly i think that a lot of people would comment similar things if they called them something new cause like "uuh that's a burger?? dont you know??? you didn't invent those foods just for changing some ingredients??!"
Also if someone is looking for ideas on how to veganize an existing recipe how are they supposed to find your 'flax seed and flour breaded seitan with italian seasonings over pasta with marinara sauce' recipe by name?
There's not much common sense in lying about the dish. Your vodka Mariana isn't a vodka marina if it doesn't use the recipe it's something else entirely. If someone came to me and just said it's a vodka meatball marinara imma assume there's meat. It's not the same cuisine if it's not that, pretty damn simple. If it's not chicken and uses black beans then make up a name for it. Language can evolve and new words created for things.
@@Lemony123 You cannot change the meaning of something that is inherently ingrained in something, the root always remains that is how all language exists and evolves. Nor does changing something vital to peoples tastes, per chance allergies and more a great idea. Doing so is nothing more than about controlling the views of other and as such any who make such attempts i will wholeheartedly and aggressively press back against.
I'm a barista, the other day I was working and a lady came in to get a cappuccino. Upon my asking what kind of milk she wanted, she said cow's milk, and proceeded to explain to me that oat/pea milk isn't actually milk, and it's not allowed to be called milk. Instead, it's oat "DRINK". I smiled and nodded but inside was like oh my god please shut the fuck up, everyone KNOWS it isn't real milk, but can't we call it that since it's how it's used anyway??? Edit: you guys I don't live in the US, please stop assuming 💀
Assuming this was in the US, she's not even correct. The FDA basically said it's fine to call it soy (or almond, flax, oat, etc.) milk because people aren't dumb enough to think that it's actual milk. The best response though probably would have been to say "I'm asking you if you want whole milk or nonfat."
@@J.Tarrou not in the US! I'm in the Netherlands :) Also my cafe only uses whole milk, we don't have other fat percentage options... that's not really a common thing outside of the US, tbh. Anyway, a quick Google search tells me that apparently, they're taxed as soda here... Which is actually insane, like what does almond milk have in common with COKE? 😐💀 idk if that has changed after backlash against the law last year, but I have other things to do so I'm not gonna look more into it lol
@@thenarwhalmage hahaha I'll keep that in the pocket for next time! I need some more witty/funny/non-offensive responses for sure. That same week actually, I asked a lady what kind of milk she wanted ("cow or plant-based") and she was like "oh I don't want breast milk thanks" ????? She started preaching to me about how cow milk is actually breast milk so OF COURSE she wants the plant based milk... Idk what happened that week, all the weirdos wanted coffee apparently 😅
@@munchsownil558how often do you interact with vegans in your day to day life that justifies you being weird about other people's diets? Because I've met far more people like you in my life than these so called "annoying vegans" I hear so much about
it’s just the truth, i’m not going to look up a “tofu burger” i’m going to look up a “vegan burger” and even see recipes or ideas i wouldn’t have thought of like using mushrooms or synthetic meat
Seen a lot of vegan food ppl making this point but it's good to see it coming from someone who is more mainstream! A lot of vegans like myself like the taste of meat etc we just don't want to contribute to animal suffering so that's why we have these substitutes!
Unconscious physiological response triggers have no time for your condescending tone nor your lack of understanding of biology. They're too busy starting a chain reaction of expectations, from metabolic responses to literal salivation, in the expectation of bacon which will never come, with tempeh masquerading in its place. Vegan meat is the "dad dressed up in a Spider-Man costume for his kid's birthday party that nobody asked for or wanted, but who gets really offended that you didn't appreciate his effort" of foodstuffs.
@@brianvalenti1207 yeah fr tho. Like I watch vegan channels to gain ideas for recipes that wouldn't typically be easy to find otherwise. I like a good meatless Monday here and there. I also enjoy meat over tofu. It's simply preference.
I never understand those types of comments. If you don't want a vegetarian/vegan recipe then why are you here? Are you incapable of going one meal without some kind of meat? Will you only eat rice if it's cooked in chicken broth?
The ones I hate are the accounts that just HAVE to complain anytime a cooking channel uploads a vegan recipe, despite the fact that the channel already has tons of fantastic meat recipes.
@@MBaron14 it is ? Are you sure it isn’t because you know deep down that they are right? That kill animals for taste pleasure isn’t a good justification??
@@MansMan42069 you realize animal agriculture causes 91% of forest distruction right? Every problem caused by plants is multiplied by 10-15x for animal agriculture because it takes 10-15x the calories
The smarter among us think both vegan meat and boneless wings are crimes against humanity. Or at the very least marketing nonsense used to divide and create false senses of superiority. But i like crimes against humanity better, just feels better on my tongue. Much like real meat as compared to either vegan substitutes or boneless abominations.
Ikr, it's hilarious The only people making a stink in comment sections are people who are trying to bait vegans with saying how good cows taste, or they're making the same 3 arguments about why not eating meat is worthy of capital punishment
Meatheads are way more anoying than the most extreme vegans. I even got into an argument with a meathead who was mad about vegan mayo being called mayo. Because 'the egg is a core ingredient."
Also words are just associations of concepts so for example meatballs refer to anything fitting it'd associations (round, meaty, specific texture and flavor) so if something recreates most of it and people recognize it as such it is that thing
Really wish people would take this to heart. I'm so tired of people posting recipes for "the best xyz EVER!" and it's just mediocre at best. I'm sorry Sharon, but you can't tell me to cook my chicken breast at the surface temperature of the sun and claim it'll taste like anything else other than old shoe casserole.
When I hear someone going about that „issue” I say „why you calling that hotdog instead of cylindrical shaped ground buttholes?”. Why they are so mad for no reason, there are worse things in the world than someone calling plants a sausage ffs.
Im glad someone out there is explaining the duh logic behind it. Im not vegan or vegetarian, but i do understand why is sometimes called "vegan stake" etc. People at this point wants to be annoying
You are so right. Just because people don’t eat meat doesn’t mean that they don’t like it. Many are vegan or vegetarian for other reasons and still miss their favorite foods. The mock version is often very satisfying.
Shrimp roll is a standard item in New England. A shrimp lobster roll would have both. Not at all the same as adding an adjective to indicate an absence of an ingredient. The better comparison is crab vs artificial crab. Nobody sees the adjective and thinks they are getting real crab. Nobody should think they are getting an animal product if the word vegan is on the label.
I would argue a burger does not even necessitate meat, we will still specify the type of filing in a burger as beef, pork, turkey, chicken, salmon, ect. So saying a chickpea, plant based, vegan, whatever burger is... normal. Being a burger has way more to do with preparation and assembly than what the patty is made of.
@@yulfine1688 Do you believe that you cannot call something a sandwich unless it uses salt-beef? Words and usage often extend past their point of origin, and the city of hamburg does not exclusively eat ground beef.
@Nefferduat hamburger is by definition a ground meat patty usually beef, placed inside a bun or roll. It comes from hamburg steaks introduced by German migrants to the US. Guess what a hamburg steak is? Ground beef, seasoning, egg, bedcrumb and even milk combined with the meat which is formed into patties. So yes it very much has a more strict definition unlike a sandwich.
@@yulfine1688 copy and pasting the wikipedia definition of something and removing the part you do agree with to support your claim sure is a thing you can do to prove you are right i guess
@Nefferduat I didn't remove anything though nor was it copy pasted i typed out the definition. Not sure what else you want that is the basic definition mate. If you want to pointless argue further with no validation to do so that's on you.
Ceasar Salad with chicken and no anchovies (or either or) people just get pedantic over some of the weirdest stuff while not following through with other similar stuff
It's also about "What is this good for?" "Vegan chicken" would be used to replace chicken in a recipe. "Vegan burger" would be made like a hamburger. Etc.
Just call it a “vegan chicken alternative” then. I agree with this sentiment totally… but the examples he gave in the video don’t make any sense and have no relation to your point. calling that pasta dish penne a la vodka… if I received that at a restaurant after ordering vodka sauce I would probably demand a refund and leave. Or calling a shrimp salad roll a lobster roll… again wtf? Why would you use the wrong name? Which is the point the comment he’s mocking are getting at… it’s SEO nonsense. It’s rage baiting for engagement. It’s being purposefully (though mildly and inconsequentially) antagonistic to increase content engagement and make more ad revenue money.
Honestly its just another manifestation of the need to be right that is so prevalent now a days. People are so wrapped up in proving they are smarter than everyone else that they will "ummm actually" at any chance they get. And as this becomes more common, the bar for accuracy just gets lower and lower. As long as people with bad faith arguments can get other insufferanlt people on their side, these kind of comments will always exist
Because some foods are specific with their ingredients. Otherwise it's not that food so don't call it that. Linguistics evolves create a new name for the dish because a meatball is very specific as is the hotdog and hamburger especially considering it's history. Deviating from that means its not longer that food. Pretty dann simple
I appreciate the pragmatist sentiment. Note that the very same people you mention have no problem referring to industrial variations of mayonaise as such, despite it having very little in common with actual mayonaise. Same thing goes for tons of other foods which - once industrialised - are miles apart from the original.
When I’ve spoken to people who adopted a vegan lifestyle they were never really fussed about the idea of fake meat, a lot of people said they wouldn’t eat a meat substitute because they dislike the taste of the animal products themselves. This led me to believe that a lot of these products are “gateway” or “transitionary” products to help those who want to reduce meat consumption but don’t just wanna eat a plate of cooked veggies and rice
This phenomenon reminds me of that concept from Jean Baudrillard, Simulation and Simulacra. Like, as humans, we make copies and imitations of things. But there comes a point where we lose the origin. So we just have copies of copies, which are their own things instead. And no, I haven’t read his actual work. And yes, I vaguely listened to a podcast about it months ago and wanted to sound smart in a RUclips comment.
If I didn’t love this channel before, I certainly do now. Simply for pointing out the obvious about vegan food naming conventions, and that these comments are not coming from a place of curiosity, but place of perceived superiority
mom is vegetarian so growing up, and still today, we have “grillers” on regular rotation. Theyre good! Love the maple breakfast patties by Morningstar too
Lots of people call pumas "mountain lions" like they're lions or exclusively live in mountains There is also "milk of Magnesia", does it imply "nipples of Magnesia"? People are dumb
It's funny because most of the rest of this guy's recent shorts are explaining confusing groceries. Almost all of these confusing groceries began as misnomers for the sake of communicating what the product is like. These vegan products are just the next wave of that. It's not particularly confusing now, but give it 20 years. Manufacturers will start being intentionally deceptive, once the standard for calling things "chicken" that are not chicken is set. It won't be long before few people realize that "Chick'N" is not just a branding of "chicken," but rather an intentionally deceptive way to not be falsely advertising. The large "Plant-based" label will be small, or non-existent. For an existing example of exactly this... see bac'n bits. How many consumers actually think they contain bacon?
Similarly "I had a vegan burger" -> "Why do you have to bring up that you're vegan all the time vs "I had a burger" -> "I thought you were vegan‽" double bind bullshit but anyway, you're right, people don't actually care, they just want to seethe about linguistic change as if vegetables weren't literally called "green meat" at one point in history.
Thank you! I’m not vegan but I don’t much give a sht if people use the language they’re familiar with to describe what they’re eating, it literally hurts no one.
One thing i come across which i love is people saying something like "For people who eat meat use [insert meat] instead" and its always very nice. Seeing the inverse is also nice.
Some things they take too far. I saw a recipe for "vegan nachos" and it was apple slices drizzled in caramel and chocolate chips. It's like, you can make nachos vegan, apples caramel and chocolate chips are not nachos.
People are so childish when it comes to vegan/vegetarian food, like why are you getting your knickers in a twist over the absence of meat, you're not being forced to eat it, calm down
I assume it's because they see the existence of vegan food as a moral judgement on them as meat eaters and it freaks them out. Cos anyone would get narky when their food source is threatened and when someone says "The factory farming industry is despicably cruel and we shouldn't support it." there's literally no come back. So they just get mad at the mere existence of vegans and vegan food, as if that will change the fact that they are participating in a corrupt system. I get it, so few people have the power, time, energy and money to change how things are done, even just for themselves, but it doesn't excuse how incredibly stupid and selfish the attitude is.
I think people always forget that words are just common use descriptors for concepts and they can be bent to some degree in order to fit the language needs of the individual or the society that uses them. They arent immutably tied to that thing that the word typically describes. Language and the meanings of them is just common usage. Something simply being reminiscient of something else is enough for me to call it by that, just in a different way. An example pulling from food is the Cauliflower Steak, or Vegan Bacon. Nobody is claiming these things to be steak or bacon respectively, but they are prepared/manufactured/eaten in a way reminiscent of those things. So, for the purpose of making the name easier, thats what we call them in everyday life.
That makes sense in many cases, but not really when used in a way that doesn’t reference a specific form of food or style of cooking. For example, a vegan chicken nugget, nugget already describes the form so adding chicken as an adjective when there is none is extraneous and not properly descriptive. Similar to the example he gives of a lobster roll, but with shrimp (he’s wrong on that one) that would be a shrimp roll, not a lobster roll, the roll already describes the roll and lobster states what’s in it. It’s the same as saying a salmon hamburger, or a veal chicken parmesan.
@@kevinmoynihan5118 No, the word nugget does not fully describe the product if we're talking about those vegan chicken nuggets. A nugget can be almost anything.
@@kevinmoynihan5118 I used to work in a vegetarian restaurant, and we had veggie nuggets on the menu. They were made from potatoes, carrots, broccoli, breadcrumbs etc and were fried. They resembled chicken nuggets in appearance on the outside, but were nothing like chicken nuggets in flavor or texture. We called them veggie nuggets because that's what they were. If you Google "veggie nuggets recipe" you'll find many different versions of this recipe, and they are mostly reminiscent of pakoras or falafel. This is old-school vegetarian cooking. The vegan products that have come out in the last several years are more complex (highly processed) and are made with gluten, soy, pea protein, mycoprotein (a fungus product) or a combination of these. They are specifically designed to simulate actual chicken. That's why they are named vegan chicken nuggets rather than veggie nuggets. They are two entirely different things.
I'm just annoyed by the fact some foods sound much more delicious if in kept a descriptor instead of a "vegan" one. For example, mushroom burger is something that I'd definitely love to try. However if it was only described as "vegan burger" it wouldn't call my attention as I'd associate it with processed foods and a flavor I'm not familiar.
I think you're thinking of a Portobello burger, still called that. Something called a "vegan burger" is more often than not, meant to somewhat imitate the taste and/or texture of a meat burger.
It’s interesting, when something is labelled as vegan people are way less likely to eat it. Even if it’s something that’s always vegan (eg potato chips), if it has a big vegan label on it it decreases sales by like 20%.
Thing is, vegans will often argue that hotdogs don't have dogs in them, conveniently "forgetting" that hotdogs were never marketed as a dogmeat substitute that "tastes just like the real thing!!". That's where a lot of people take issue.
Yeah, the vegans can make a dish called "green buffalos" where they fill a green bell pepper with a ton of vegan stuff and cook it in olive oil. If they called it "vegan Buffalo steak" them they would be banned from the cookout, but if they just let it be what it is, gave it a silly name, everything would be fine "Ants on a log" is an amazing snack but nobody treats it like some ant substitute.
@thaliacrafts407 I think you are confused. There is no reason for a vegan to take issue with a hot dog being free of dog flesh. Hot dogs are a type of sausage that are often made from pork. Do you think Orthodox Jews should not be allowed to call their version 'Kosher Hot Dogs' because they use beef instead of pork? Since hot dogs can be made with beef, pork, turkey or a combination of all three as it's just a style of sausage, it makes sense that vegans should be allowed to call their version 'Vegan Hot Dogs.'
It's actually a good explanation. It applies in a most cases. I personally still feel some content creators stretch definitions to some ridiculous points sometimes, but I see what you're saying.
That's the problem is they do a hot dog has a specific definition and fit and people know what that means, if you're hot dog isn't made out of those ingredients it's not a hot dog.. linguistics isn't complicated
They are not chicken. There is no chicken in them. They are veggie patties. The name "veggie patty" is easily understood, and does not list an ingredient that is not found in the dish.
i swear ya tell someone you're a vegetarian and you always get the same like 5 questions asked and it's practically always done in bad faith i should just start carrying around a business card or some shit for these people with a little FAQ on the back
The difference is, “meatballs” are a description, and “veggieballs” is just as clear an example. Same with “vegetarian chicken nuggets”, just say “veggie nuggets”
@allthebanter9316 Veggieballs would not be a good name for vegan "meatballs" as many people would think they were falafel or something similar. Same with just using the word nuggets, I wouldn't necessarily think it would resemble chicken nuggets.
@@stephenlurie821 People call chicken nuggets simply nuggets all the time, just like calling a hamburger a burger. Veggie nuggets pretty clearly describe nuggets made from vegetables. I don’t know what else a veggie nugget would be.
@@kevinmoynihan5118 A nugget made from vegetables could be any number of things. If I saw Veggie Nuggets on a package my first thought might be batter dipped and fried cauliflower - which is delicious, by the way. Broccoli and zucchini can also be prepared this way. Although soy protein aka TVP, and gluten aka wheat meat are vegetarian, most people don't think of them when they see the word vegetable. It seems like referring to them as vegan chicken nuggets would be most clear. I always read the ingredient lists, but if I just saw the word nuggets...
@@stephenlurie821 this may be a cultural thing then, but where I live “veggie” refers to vegetarian, not just vegetables. So “veggie nuggets” would be “vegetarian nuggets” not “vegetable nuggets”. And “veggie nugget” is no worse a descriptor than “veggie chicken nugget”
@@allthebanter9316 Hi there! I understand that when people use the term 'veggie' they may mean vegetarian or vegan. For example, if I hear someone order a Veggie Pizza, I figure they want a regular pizza with all the vegetable toppings. If they didn't want cheese, they would specify that they wanted vegan 'cheez' or no cheese at all. What I was trying to say was 'veggie nuggets' sounds ambiguous to me. If it isn't described as 'vegan chicken nuggets' or 'veggie chicken nuggets' I wouldn't know what to expect. I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that the nuggets were going to be an imitation chicken product. I mean, if someone asked me if I wanted some nuggets to snack on, I'd think "Oh, I wonder if that's chocolate covered walnuts or granola clusters.". If they elaborated and said they were heating up some veggie nuggets, I'd still wonder what they were offering me. Like, it could be falafel balls or tempura cauliflower. I'm guessing you're talking about a product that resembles white meat chicken that is breaded and deep fried. If that were described as 'veggie chicken nuggets' I would understand.
Ship of Theseus: culinary edition
Ramen, roux with cream cheese, sausage. Chicken Alfredo pasta?
@@aterack833 sure, but it's still not vegan.
@@coolidgpyou could use vegan cream cheese and vegan sausage if you wanted to (or i guess "cream cheeze" and "saus'ge" or whatever they're calling it)
@@coolidgp i didn’t see the title
It’s more like why would you want to make the vegan food to look like or taste look like meat? It’s like a cannibal went vegan but make food look like human or human parts also taste like human and call it human organs name… don’t you think that’s gross?
I think Kenji put it perfectly in his crispy oven fried wings video; “language is used to communicate things. If I say ‘oven fried’ you know that they’re like fried wings but I baked them in the oven.”
@@potbird5401 What a great anecdote! Your life must be full of wonder.
@@DangerSquiggles It would be nice if that were true
@@potbird5401 try morning star farms their substitutes taste so close to the original & have a good flavor
No, I didn’t, until you told me you baked them. There’s a reason we I have different words for ‘bake’ and ‘fry’ smh
@@cloudmastr8105 Your insight into semantics is astounding
It amazes me when people forget the entire point of language is just to communicate as efficiently and specifically as possible.
It doesn't amaze me, when people say "it amazes me", when it's not true.
It's a bit tiresome, though.
I see what you're saying because saying "vegan meatball" is the easiest way of describing the food and it will give you a pretty accurate idea of what to expect. So in that sense it's the most accurate and clear description. But it's very unclear contradictory in another sense, because obviously it can't be a MEAT ball if it's vegan, so that's probably where the confusion comes from.
Ironic because those two ideas are actually contradictory in most cases. The more specific you try to be the less efficient it becomes. Language is about striking an appropriate balance between specificity and efficiency.
@GlimB There is no better way to say it though. Also meat does not always equate meat in every language. In german there is "fruit meat" which is the edible part of citrus fruits like oranges. Saying "round pea protien balls" just won't make you think of what it actually is, a meatless meatball
@@GlimBI don't believe there is genuine confusion. There is only anti-vegan sentiment.
I’m always amazed at how unbelievably repetitive comments are on vegan food accounts
Yeah, we literally make fun of vegans for constantly going "i'm vegan" and then people do that....
@@okidokidraws i forgive you for going "i'm vegan" this time
I’d rather be told what it actually is ,then further explained if I don’t understand.
I understand the concept and intention of vegan imitation foods but it’s still misleading ..
I don’t want to participate in eating something that is not fully transparent from the start.
I don’t have hate towards vegans . However I don’t trust or respect them if they don’t name things for what they are.
I have tried many different vegan foods. Some are okay.
But putting a steamed carrot with yeast extract and soy sauce then calling it a hotdog is absurd.
theyre so easily triggered by veganism
ironic
@@chanceDdog2009 but if you're okay with being further explained if you don't understand, and you don't understand it being called vegan meat, is that not just the exact same situation for you...? Like, clearly if you were given "vegan____," your first reaction would be to say "How do you make ____ vegan?"
Coconut is a mammal:
- has hair
- gives milk
Wrong
Capybara egg
Coconuts don't have ears.
I thought coconuts were bowling balls my life is a lie
Also, as a vegetarian, I wanted to add one more thing: it helps us distinguish between what products are meant to taste like meat versus which will taste like veggies . If I see "smoky tempeh," I'm expecting it to taste like tempeh, but if I see "plant based bak'n" I'm expecting it to at least resemble bacon
That makes a lot of sense, actually. I'll admit I can get nitpicky when it comes to meat names for plantbased food, but if think about it, I'm more annoyed at a certain grocery chain in my country. They've been pushing their own line of vegan products and claiming it's "for the environment" when it's obvious they just want to line their pockets selling vegetables for meat prices. I guess I've been projecting that on all vegans😅
Smoky is an adjective. It's a suitable descriptor. Bacon, though, is a noun, referring to a very specific thing with flavor profiles and basic physiological response triggers that imitators can't possible expect to mimic. It might be useful to people already practicing vegetarian diets, but it's the worst possible PR move for trying to "spread the good word" and try to get people to eat more vegetable content in their diets.
@@sean-in-wnc the idea is to make it taste like bacon though. If it's trying to taste like a unique thing, like be a substitute, then it's fair that it would just be referred to based on its ingredients. But if it's trying to imitate a certain food, then I think the naming mechanism they use is apt, although it risks not actually tasting like what it's supposed to, which can alienate people from it.
plenty of meat substitutes do a good job of tasting similar to what they're replacing. Generally the issue I have is texture, at least in my limited experience.
"at least resemble bacon" had to lol
This makes a lot more sense to me than what he says in the video. All his examples are just "if I called it what it is, you wouldn't know what it is."
Even as a meat eater, I can understand that just because someone decides for ethical reasons they are vegan, it does not necessarily mean they dislike the taste of animal products. It makes sense, especially if you grew up eating animal products, that you'd be interested in meals that 'replicate' those comforing meals and flavour profiles.
You get it
vegetarian*
majority of vegans are those that shove veganism down peoples throats with a small amount of them being dom estic terror ists,
Vegetarians dont eat meat, but still use aminal by-products.
Vegans on the far end are the ones blocking traffic and camping out blocking butcher shops and plants, and violating food security laws.
there are some vegans that just want to live their lives in their own world, then there is the far end.
THANK YOU. It's like people can't comprehend others making lifestyle choices for reasons other than personal preference. Or maybe they don't want to admit that veganism is an ethical stance rather than a silly dietary fad
100% agree, i love meat but its expensive and not the healthiest always. Thats why i love channels that teach ways of making meat dishes meat free so i can hopefully get closer to a diet with a lot less meat
Also kill free lab meat, technically not vegan because animal product, but same idea
I miss the 90s when you could say coconut milk without everyone shreeking and writhing like a worm on arizona cement in july.
What a simile
Omg must be tough be persecuted like that all the time
Try being queer, non white, disabled, fat etc 😘
(Obviously idk if you're any of those things, but given your comment, it's seems unlikely)
@@439801RS try being white we get a lot of anti-hate if thats the proper word because oh we had shitty ancestors just like everyone else and lots of the uber rich are white
@@439801RS hey friend. i hope your day is going well and the world is kind to you today.
People who hate vegans also hate those people so @@439801RS
The fact that this needs to get explained...
That's like asking why a buildING isn't called a buildED when clearly it is finished.
"Built"
For those of us who speak Spanish, chingaderinera sauce is VERY explanatory.
All I hear him say chingadera sauce
plus, it's not impossible to just explain the new name. With the professional yap artists that most vegans are, this shouldn't be a problem. They're leaning on the culinary attractiveness of meat to sell their noncomparable products
so fuckin funny dawg
@@schwig44yap artist 😂
Or those of us who work construction with Hispanics
Also important to note that the practice of calling milk-like substances "whatever-milk" is literally like thousands of years old.
Nutmilk (get it out of your system) is not a particularly complex thing to come up with and we are not the first to do so.
any1 want to get nutmilk out of my system....
😋@@DarkMAGA
It's nut juice
@@maryfaith8286 cow milk is just modified bovine sweat, i think i'll take the nut juice.
@@maryfaith8286 thats what I said, but the health inspector said I couldn't sell "Cum"
If platypus milk can exist without platypus nipples, i don't see why coconut milk can't exist without coconut nipples.
(This comment is a joke. I just wanted an excuse to share the weird fact I know. That fact being that Platypuses excrete their milk through their skin and not through a nipple like other mammals do.)
I like your joke :)
@@internetshaquille Almond milk was popular among the rich during the middle ages for gawds sac.
TF?? Platypuses are the strangest animal istg. Thank you for this cursed fun fact! 😂👍
So the platypus kids just lick their mom's milky sweat ?? 💀💀
I assume those people correcting people about vegan meat or coconut milk are just technical geniuses via Seanbaby. “You're smart enough to spot a technicality, but too dumb to know everyone else did too and it was light years away from the point.”
Or people who have a need for things to fit within exact definitions.
(Thats me, calling something it isn’t can and will give me a panic attack)
@@GodlyDra you should get an ocd or autism assessment (not an insult btw i hope you're doing ok but that's not a regular behavior for most people afaik and could very well be a sign of neurodivergence)
@@GodlyDra
are you serious
@@d.h.foster8937
Yes.
I am always serious.
@@GodlyDra you can just imagine the word "imitation" in the phrase if it helps. Vegan imitation meat or coconut imitation milk are both correct and clear in their meaning
I have no thoughts and I must seethe
The Shorts-Watcher's Prayer
Bros mind is a cymbal monkey clapping away😭
Is this a reference to I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream?
But will you also be coping and seething?
@@fletcherhorn7709everything is
People will scream about the existence of a vegan cheeseburger but are completely fine with chicken burger
I just call it the chicken sandwich if there's breading on the chicken, and the grilled chicken sandwich otherwise. It'd be a chicken burger of it was ground chicken, but that would be gross and I'd rather just have a chicken sandwich.
@@druhu4590 just call it a chicken burger like a normal person
@druhu4590 Turkey burger, bison burger?
It's a chicken sandwich. I would never call it a chicken burger. You in the UK?
Only if by "chicken burger", they mean "ground chicken shaped into a patty", and not "fried chicken". Just like how I have no problem with a vegan burger, or a vegetarian cheeseburger.. but cheese is required for a cheeseburger, and coagulated soy juice is not cheese.
Chingaderinara sauce! 😂😂😂 I spit my water!
😂 I'm going to use that. Thanks!
Same here. I live in Spain but I love Mexican slang.
I love it too! I’m going to use the name it’s so funny
😂😂😂 people are sleeping on how good that was
that shit made me & my bf bust up 😂
this has got to be one of my top 10 annoyances in food communities and it seems to always come from bad faith commenters who are just looking to cause conflict..
Like yes, everybody knows almond milk isn't really milk. the "milk" part is a descriptior letting you know its color, taste and consistency are intended to make it a potential replacement for milk, and everybody understands that is isn't really milk from a mammal. but some people insist on being snarky about such things, saying "just call it juice", when that name would imply an entirely different purpose in the kitchen and would not properly convey what it is intended for. and calling it "Almond-derived milk substitute" is just too wordsome for a normal person conversation.
as long as you have the Neccessary qualifiers that make it clear you arent consuming the thing ( milk, burger, etc) its perfectly acceptable language that 99% of the poulation understands without having to be explained that is isn't the "real" thing. the only people regularly being stnarky about it are the pople who for some reason or another aren not happy with the idea of such alternatives existing in the first place.
I've seen some brands call almond milk, almond beverage.
@@jennyknopps1291Probably because legally they can't actually call it milk. But in layman speaking it really doesn't matter
@@jennyknopps1291 Big Milk (actually a thing) has spent decades and billions upon billions on lobbying governments to do things like advertise cow milk in schools, etc. - and when plant-based milks started getting popular they set their sights on getting legislation passed to prevent almond/oat/etc. milk from being described milk. It's largely promoted not because of any positive health effects (in fact a number of the 'commonly known' positive health effects aren't supported by science), it's because these companies spend an absurd amount of money on it.
@@Ash_Wen-lisame with "dairy-free frozen dessert" instead of "ice cream"
I think what’s especially annoying is when they call it something new and then people comment dumb shit like “oh so it’s a burger with no meat”. You can’t win. It leaks into all food content comments, it is so annoying. Like the cowboy caviar discourse.
As a carnivore myself I really don’t understand the comments made on vegan accounts. Vegans dont not like meat. They don’t eat meat for various reasons like the environment or the well-being of animals it has nothing to do with taste or anything 😭
You are mostly right, but I actually am revolted by most meat and have been vegetarian my whole life because of it...but yeah I'm vegan for all the other reasons you implied lol
i have been vegetarian for 7 years, and even before that, i did not like meat. i thought anything on a bone (like chicken legs) was disgusting. pork grossed me out. but it was all that was given to me and i had to eat. meat is also super normal to eat and is encouraged to eat as the "main" for every meal (except maybe breakfast, where sausage and bacon are more like sides). not to mention meat-free options + protein substitutes like chick'n nuggets just weren't around years ago / weren't easily accessible. if i had vegetarian options available as a kid, maybe i wouldn't have gone hungry so often.
I am vegetarian and I miss meat, lol. I just fill the void with carbs.
But most of their reasons are bs. Vegans do way more harm to the environment than meat eaters and it's not even close. Pretty sure you don't have to wipe out the entire wildlife in the area to raise a cow.
I'm a vegetarian and I like the taste of meat. Even after 9 years, I'm still cooking smoky walnuts hoping they will taste more like bacon. Still don't eat bacon
thank you for this man 😭 whenever i read those comments i just want to scream "are you really that stupid or are you just trying to rage bait??" it's always "erm why vegan eat something that isn't meat if they don't eat meat? checkmate liberal i am very smart" god forbid we try new things!! why does calling vegan "meat" meat make them seethe so hard like they own the word meat
At this point i just dismiss most comments like that as actual industrial astroturfing, if nothing else it's best for your mental health to assume that it's just a team of people making 50000 accounts to post propaganda.
@swedneck is that actually best for your mental health tho?
@@KraziEyevin Yes.
Sometimes people are really that stupid... Sometimes it's people seeing anger as a fun thing. Sometimes it's both...
Not vegan at all, but Vegetarian and Vegan food chefs are one of the more creative people on the platform. Like seriously, some of their stuff are incredibly sustainable and cheap... Probably would be helpful if your budget is tight.
And I absolutely never get why the hate...
For Industrial sized out of touch corporate trying to cash in on Vegetarianism... Sure, they're out of touch after all.
But for at home cooks and stuff? Really? You saw a person made curry with incredibly cheap ingredients and you're mad at that?
They're really showing their ignorance because the word "meat" originally means ANY kind of food, not just flesh. "Meat and drink" meant you were going have a meal, not that it had to include a hunk of animal.
Their heads would probably pop off if they knew how old alternative milks are 😂
They know. It's just a running joke.
Samuel Johnson's first dictionary from 1755 lists almond milk as one definition of milk. There are written recipes from 1000 years ago, and even English language ones from as early as 1390.
vegans would be in heaven if i gave them a vegan chicken sanwitch with chicken, and tel them why it taste so good. I will just tell them "the chicken only ate vegetable and no bugs or other animals.
@@njujuznem6554 native Americans have been refuring to a nut milk as milk for way before Columbus
Because its milky, both resembling milk and cloudy or opaque in colour. Many things can be called milk/milky.
honestly i think that a lot of people would comment similar things if they called them something new cause like
"uuh that's a burger?? dont you know??? you didn't invent those foods just for changing some ingredients??!"
Also, the more archaic definition of "meat" is pretty much any food. Like people call the flesh of coconut the "meat".
Yeah I say that all the time when they say stop changing the meaning of words. Meat used to mean any non liquid food.
This is technically still true in languages like swedish, our word for food is "mat" which is etymologically the same as "meat".
"Meat pies" and "sweet meats"...I think I heard meat is like "beverage", a term for non-plant foods
Also if someone is looking for ideas on how to veganize an existing recipe how are they supposed to find your 'flax seed and flour breaded seitan with italian seasonings over pasta with marinara sauce' recipe by name?
But that's not a vegan version of the recipe. It's a different recipe. Doesn't have to be a bad thing.
Does anyone really know what's in "bolognese?" Call it "veganese" and let people grow into it.
it's so nice to come across a meat eater with common sense
There's not much common sense in lying about the dish.
Your vodka Mariana isn't a vodka marina if it doesn't use the recipe it's something else entirely.
If someone came to me and just said it's a vodka meatball marinara imma assume there's meat.
It's not the same cuisine if it's not that, pretty damn simple.
If it's not chicken and uses black beans then make up a name for it.
Language can evolve and new words created for things.
@@yulfine1688And, existing word could also change meaning!
@@Lemony123 You cannot change the meaning of something that is inherently ingrained in something, the root always remains that is how all language exists and evolves.
Nor does changing something vital to peoples tastes, per chance allergies and more a great idea.
Doing so is nothing more than about controlling the views of other and as such any who make such attempts i will wholeheartedly and aggressively press back against.
I'm a barista, the other day I was working and a lady came in to get a cappuccino. Upon my asking what kind of milk she wanted, she said cow's milk, and proceeded to explain to me that oat/pea milk isn't actually milk, and it's not allowed to be called milk. Instead, it's oat "DRINK". I smiled and nodded but inside was like oh my god please shut the fuck up, everyone KNOWS it isn't real milk, but can't we call it that since it's how it's used anyway???
Edit: you guys I don't live in the US, please stop assuming 💀
You should have said that you actually were asking about goat vs cow milk. That would have stumped her.
Assuming this was in the US, she's not even correct. The FDA basically said it's fine to call it soy (or almond, flax, oat, etc.) milk because people aren't dumb enough to think that it's actual milk.
The best response though probably would have been to say "I'm asking you if you want whole milk or nonfat."
@@J.Tarrou not in the US! I'm in the Netherlands :) Also my cafe only uses whole milk, we don't have other fat percentage options... that's not really a common thing outside of the US, tbh. Anyway, a quick Google search tells me that apparently, they're taxed as soda here... Which is actually insane, like what does almond milk have in common with COKE? 😐💀 idk if that has changed after backlash against the law last year, but I have other things to do so I'm not gonna look more into it lol
@@thenarwhalmage hahaha I'll keep that in the pocket for next time! I need some more witty/funny/non-offensive responses for sure. That same week actually, I asked a lady what kind of milk she wanted ("cow or plant-based") and she was like "oh I don't want breast milk thanks"
?????
She started preaching to me about how cow milk is actually breast milk so OF COURSE she wants the plant based milk... Idk what happened that week, all the weirdos wanted coffee apparently 😅
Just say you also had sheep milk in stock to shut her the he'll up
I'm not even a vegan and I get super annoyed by the anti-vegan rhetoric.
I get super annoyed by vegans constantly learning their superiority over others
@@munchsownil558 Same bro, same.
@@munchsownil558Both are dumb
@@munchsownil558 i have met so many vegans and literally none of them are like that.
@@munchsownil558how often do you interact with vegans in your day to day life that justifies you being weird about other people's diets? Because I've met far more people like you in my life than these so called "annoying vegans" I hear so much about
As a New England native, the very idea of "a lobster roll but shrimp instead" stunlocked my brain, like a verbal flashbang
Right? It was so totally *wrong*.
Shrimp roll would be simpler and less confusing
The best part of this… shrimp salad is a thing… you can get shrimp salad rolls.
This short is just rage bait I think haha
Gonna hop into a hamburger video's comments and ask why they're calling it a hamburger when there's no ham
No ham and hopefully no person from Hamburg, but you never know
Bc it's derived from the name hamburg steak, originating in Hamburg, Germany. A minced steak with seasoning and onion. 🌈 The More You Know.
Sure, ya could. It'd be dishonest and disingenuous, and also a terrible argument, but sure. Go for it.
@@NorthernSeaWitchthought it was technically Austrian?
it’s just the truth, i’m not going to look up a “tofu burger” i’m going to look up a “vegan burger” and even see recipes or ideas i wouldn’t have thought of like using mushrooms or synthetic meat
That sounds like a personal problem.
@@sean-in-wnc there wasn't even a problem in the comment you are replying to
Seen a lot of vegan food ppl making this point but it's good to see it coming from someone who is more mainstream! A lot of vegans like myself like the taste of meat etc we just don't want to contribute to animal suffering so that's why we have these substitutes!
“Actually Megan, I can’t picture anything in my mind’s eyes, I have aphantasia.”
Unconscious physiological response triggers have no time for your condescending tone nor your lack of understanding of biology. They're too busy starting a chain reaction of expectations, from metabolic responses to literal salivation, in the expectation of bacon which will never come, with tempeh masquerading in its place.
Vegan meat is the "dad dressed up in a Spider-Man costume for his kid's birthday party that nobody asked for or wanted, but who gets really offended that you didn't appreciate his effort" of foodstuffs.
Same with people who say "this would be better with meat" OK THEN MAKE IT WITH MEAT, THIS VEGAN CHANNEL ISNT FOR YOU
So much for living togther in respectful harmony.
@@brianvalenti1207 yeah fr tho. Like I watch vegan channels to gain ideas for recipes that wouldn't typically be easy to find otherwise. I like a good meatless Monday here and there. I also enjoy meat over tofu. It's simply preference.
So much internet drama could be avoided if people were able to just say "This isn't for me, I'll go watch something else"
I never understand those types of comments. If you don't want a vegetarian/vegan recipe then why are you here? Are you incapable of going one meal without some kind of meat? Will you only eat rice if it's cooked in chicken broth?
The ones I hate are the accounts that just HAVE to complain anytime a cooking channel uploads a vegan recipe, despite the fact that the channel already has tons of fantastic meat recipes.
We need a copy pasta version of this short. Very good explanation, shuts down like 90% of annoying comments on cooking videos.
Yeah, these people aren’t genuinely asking these questions.
Most of them Exactly it’s just a gotcha question
That's because taking vegans seriously is sillier than being a vegan. Mockery is appropriate.
@@MBaron14 it is ? Are you sure it isn’t because you know deep down that they are right? That kill animals for taste pleasure isn’t a good justification??
@@SSStofu008Not even close. The wildlife killed to cater to vegan food production doesn't make you saintly, my guy.
@@MansMan42069 you realize animal agriculture causes 91% of forest distruction right?
Every problem caused by plants is multiplied by 10-15x for animal agriculture because it takes 10-15x the calories
Yet these people never seem to need to cry about something like "boneless wings" which arent wings at all.
The smarter among us think both vegan meat and boneless wings are crimes against humanity. Or at the very least marketing nonsense used to divide and create false senses of superiority. But i like crimes against humanity better, just feels better on my tongue. Much like real meat as compared to either vegan substitutes or boneless abominations.
This is actually an ongoing debate amongst carnivores, you only brought it up because you or someone else has complained about it
And thank goodness they aren't, I prefer breast meat over any other piece of chicken.
@@undead8393wait… they are from breast meat? I thought it was just wings that have been deboned?
@@undead8393thank you for your sacrifice
"Chingaderanara sauce" made me spit out my drink laughing, i havent recovered
No that “chingaderinera” comment might be one of the funniest things I’ve ever heard you say lmfaooo
everyone talks about how vegans are annoying but honestly the comments under any vegan video are way lamer than anything ive heard a vegan say
Ikr, it's hilarious
The only people making a stink in comment sections are people who are trying to bait vegans with saying how good cows taste, or they're making the same 3 arguments about why not eating meat is worthy of capital punishment
+
Meatheads are way more anoying than the most extreme vegans. I even got into an argument with a meathead who was mad about vegan mayo being called mayo. Because 'the egg is a core ingredient."
Yeah ive met only one vegan that honestly was way worse than the majority of comments on vegan stuff.
most egan videos show you healthy and or yummy content. it's guilt baby. x
FRANKLY, Chingaderinara tells me exactly what I needed to know.
I can assure Chingaderinara sauce is tasty 😂
stahp 😂
Also words are just associations of concepts so for example meatballs refer to anything fitting it'd associations (round, meaty, specific texture and flavor) so if something recreates most of it and people recognize it as such it is that thing
Try Soy Spheres
@@Eggy79 no
Vegetable balls.
Until someone sue
So if I take rat poison and somehow make it resemble meatballs in every sense, I get to call them meatballs? You see the issue right?
Best advice I got in culinary school: Name generate expectations. Never name a dish with a name you know will have an expectation it cant meet.
Really wish people would take this to heart. I'm so tired of people posting recipes for "the best xyz EVER!" and it's just mediocre at best. I'm sorry Sharon, but you can't tell me to cook my chicken breast at the surface temperature of the sun and claim it'll taste like anything else other than old shoe casserole.
EXACTLY.
When I hear someone going about that „issue” I say „why you calling that hotdog instead of cylindrical shaped ground buttholes?”. Why they are so mad for no reason, there are worse things in the world than someone calling plants a sausage ffs.
I really wish you hadn't reminded me about hotdog ingredients
@@soulchoreahey, if it’s good it’s good. No need to think bout the ingredients.
@@edgaranalhoe7678 absolute facts. As long as everything is safe to eat and you enjoy eating it, the ingredients really don't matter that much
Coconut nipples.
@@Absurdtheisticexactlyyy, my man
Im glad someone out there is explaining the duh logic behind it. Im not vegan or vegetarian, but i do understand why is sometimes called "vegan stake" etc.
People at this point wants to be annoying
When I first heard this explanation it made so much sense, it’s nice that this video has more examples
That's because the comments made aren't in good faith. They aren't guninely asking, they just want to express their disdain for vegans.
Okay but those morningstar crumbles made into sloppy Joe's are really good
beyond spicy crumbles go crazy
You are so right. Just because people don’t eat meat doesn’t mean that they don’t like it. Many are vegan or vegetarian for other reasons and still miss their favorite foods. The mock version is often very satisfying.
Shrimp roll is a standard item in New England. A shrimp lobster roll would have both. Not at all the same as adding an adjective to indicate an absence of an ingredient. The better comparison is crab vs artificial crab. Nobody sees the adjective and thinks they are getting real crab. Nobody should think they are getting an animal product if the word vegan is on the label.
The word vegan is is just a substitute for the word substitute
This right here! Shrimp rolls exist, this guy is just oblivious and stupid to it.
@@augustuslunasol10thapostle not always. mock crab is typically just fish; vegan would be associated with imitation without animal products
I would argue a burger does not even necessitate meat, we will still specify the type of filing in a burger as beef, pork, turkey, chicken, salmon, ect. So saying a chickpea, plant based, vegan, whatever burger is... normal. Being a burger has way more to do with preparation and assembly than what the patty is made of.
Hamburger has a history from Austria or Germany from an actual place it started.
Pretty big difference there mate
@@yulfine1688 Do you believe that you cannot call something a sandwich unless it uses salt-beef? Words and usage often extend past their point of origin, and the city of hamburg does not exclusively eat ground beef.
@Nefferduat hamburger is by definition a ground meat patty usually beef, placed inside a bun or roll.
It comes from hamburg steaks introduced by German migrants to the US.
Guess what a hamburg steak is?
Ground beef, seasoning, egg, bedcrumb and even milk combined with the meat which is formed into patties.
So yes it very much has a more strict definition unlike a sandwich.
@@yulfine1688 copy and pasting the wikipedia definition of something and removing the part you do agree with to support your claim sure is a thing you can do to prove you are right i guess
@Nefferduat I didn't remove anything though nor was it copy pasted i typed out the definition. Not sure what else you want that is the basic definition mate.
If you want to pointless argue further with no validation to do so that's on you.
Making carbonara with bacon in america
Italians: UMMM DONT CALL IT CARBONARA
Ceasar Salad with chicken and no anchovies (or either or)
people just get pedantic over some of the weirdest stuff while not following through with other similar stuff
It was originally bacon. Carbonara with guanciale is the fancy kind.
This short is peak commentary and very funny
As a Mexican, “Chingaderanera Sauce” made me giggle like a schoolgirl. 😅
Jokes on you, I don’t even know what a lobster roll is either.
It's also about "What is this good for?" "Vegan chicken" would be used to replace chicken in a recipe. "Vegan burger" would be made like a hamburger. Etc.
Just call it a “vegan chicken alternative” then. I agree with this sentiment totally… but the examples he gave in the video don’t make any sense and have no relation to your point. calling that pasta dish penne a la vodka… if I received that at a restaurant after ordering vodka sauce I would probably demand a refund and leave. Or calling a shrimp salad roll a lobster roll… again wtf?
Why would you use the wrong name? Which is the point the comment he’s mocking are getting at… it’s SEO nonsense. It’s rage baiting for engagement. It’s being purposefully (though mildly and inconsequentially) antagonistic to increase content engagement and make more ad revenue money.
Honestly its just another manifestation of the need to be right that is so prevalent now a days. People are so wrapped up in proving they are smarter than everyone else that they will "ummm actually" at any chance they get. And as this becomes more common, the bar for accuracy just gets lower and lower. As long as people with bad faith arguments can get other insufferanlt people on their side, these kind of comments will always exist
Because some foods are specific with their ingredients. Otherwise it's not that food so don't call it that.
Linguistics evolves create a new name for the dish because a meatball is very specific as is the hotdog and hamburger especially considering it's history.
Deviating from that means its not longer that food. Pretty dann simple
I appreciate the pragmatist sentiment. Note that the very same people you mention have no problem referring to industrial variations of mayonaise as such, despite it having very little in common with actual mayonaise. Same thing goes for tons of other foods which - once industrialised - are miles apart from the original.
If it doesn't come from cococows it's not coco milk
This gave me a good chortle.
You mean cocogoats?
When I was little, my dad told me that chocolate milk came from brown cows and I believed it for the longest time 😂
Everyone knows that coconut milk comes from coconut cows, just like chocolate milk comes from browns cows and strawberry milk comes from pink cows.
@@kevinmoynihan5118 yes, chocolate milk is exclusively made on Earl J Browns farm.👌
"Coconut nipples" was my nickname in high school.
When I’ve spoken to people who adopted a vegan lifestyle they were never really fussed about the idea of fake meat, a lot of people said they wouldn’t eat a meat substitute because they dislike the taste of the animal products themselves. This led me to believe that a lot of these products are “gateway” or “transitionary” products to help those who want to reduce meat consumption but don’t just wanna eat a plate of cooked veggies and rice
I mean, people understand what chicken fried steak is.
This phenomenon reminds me of that concept from Jean Baudrillard, Simulation and Simulacra. Like, as humans, we make copies and imitations of things. But there comes a point where we lose the origin. So we just have copies of copies, which are their own things instead.
And no, I haven’t read his actual work. And yes, I vaguely listened to a podcast about it months ago and wanted to sound smart in a RUclips comment.
If anyone wants to school me on this connection to Baudrillard, I earnestly would love to hear it.
Welp, that's today's rabbit hole. Thank you 😊!
Even without reading you have the gist of it right
Very cool, something to look into
The humility to admit you didn’t actually read it already makes you smart dude
"Chingaderinara sauce" is actually freaking hilarious. 🤣🤣🤣🤣
If I didn’t love this channel before, I certainly do now. Simply for pointing out the obvious about vegan food naming conventions, and that these comments are not coming from a place of curiosity, but place of perceived superiority
Gochujang and mezcal?? That sounds crazy lol
he has a video on that sauce and it really is great. I make it about every couple of months and it's always a treat!
mom is vegetarian so growing up, and still today, we have “grillers” on regular rotation. Theyre good! Love the maple breakfast patties by Morningstar too
Morningstar Spicy Chick'n patties are better than any of the actual chicken brands.
Coconut nipples is a combination of words I never thought I'd hear.
"Coconut Nipples" is what I call my girlfriend.
This irritates me a lot. Its like people have never heard of a misnomer before
This 'seahorse' doesn't even have hooves. Checkmate, liberals.
Lots of people call pumas "mountain lions" like they're lions or exclusively live in mountains
There is also "milk of Magnesia", does it imply "nipples of Magnesia"?
People are dumb
It's funny because most of the rest of this guy's recent shorts are explaining confusing groceries. Almost all of these confusing groceries began as misnomers for the sake of communicating what the product is like.
These vegan products are just the next wave of that. It's not particularly confusing now, but give it 20 years. Manufacturers will start being intentionally deceptive, once the standard for calling things "chicken" that are not chicken is set. It won't be long before few people realize that "Chick'N" is not just a branding of "chicken," but rather an intentionally deceptive way to not be falsely advertising. The large "Plant-based" label will be small, or non-existent.
For an existing example of exactly this... see bac'n bits. How many consumers actually think they contain bacon?
@@hcn6708 organic chemistry (although it wasn't a misnomer at the time the term was adopted)
@dracofile8825
You may have heard the word misnomer, but you obviously don't know what it means.
I’m surprised at how this channel’s shorts are becoming my new favorite daily routine
Similarly "I had a vegan burger" -> "Why do you have to bring up that you're vegan all the time
vs
"I had a burger" -> "I thought you were vegan‽"
double bind bullshit
but anyway, you're right, people don't actually care, they just want to seethe about linguistic change as if vegetables weren't literally called "green meat" at one point in history.
Thank you! I’m not vegan but I don’t much give a sht if people use the language they’re familiar with to describe what they’re eating, it literally hurts no one.
Understanding colloquialism is super important and I think this is a great way of putting it - well said!
I never thought of the necessity for coconut nipples regarding coconut milk before, but you make a good point there guy.
Sir, you make this world a better place with these videos
NGL fam, I found you a couple days ago and your content is on point.
Plant and animal milks all taste bad to me, but cheese is delicious.
Except for the decades long precedent of calling "fat-in-liquid" emulsions milk.
Centuries. Nearly a millennium. The people who are whining are illiterate and overbearing about it.
Annoying comments about vegans are way more common than annoying vegans.
As someone who keeps wondering this, you actually answers my question. Thanks man
thanks Shaq, you are my favorite non-plant-based youtuber. but still based nonetheless
This tech will come in handy on mars, Lord knows we're not taking livestock over there
One thing i come across which i love is people saying something like "For people who eat meat use [insert meat] instead" and its always very nice. Seeing the inverse is also nice.
Some things they take too far. I saw a recipe for "vegan nachos" and it was apple slices drizzled in caramel and chocolate chips. It's like, you can make nachos vegan, apples caramel and chocolate chips are not nachos.
that's a separate issue, and is just people wanting free PR by jumping on a term that people are looking for.
@@swedneck they must want bad pr
Caramel isn't vegan though? Like unless they were using vegan caramel it would have cream and butter in it. Same with chocolate chips.
@@cayenne_pepper7665chocolate is a bean product. It's completely vegan unless somebody adds dairy to it.
@cayenne_pepper7665 better police your people lol
Yeah those commenters dont want an actual answer, they're just spiteful
LMFAO at the "Chingaderinera sauce".
There's a related but seperate issue of if said tvp patty is meat or vegetable. Thing is, nutritionally, it's not a vegetable.
It's not either, it's an ultra processed food ingredient.
If you wanted it in a less scary class, just call it a protein.
What do you mean, nutritionally, it's not a vegetable?
Are you implying it's a ... grain?
If the protein is gluten, the argument could be made.
Most of them are based off of beans, and beans are often classes as a protein and a vegetable, so classing it as a protein seems safe
All the TVP that I've seen at grocery stores has soy flour as the sole ingredient; that makes it vegetarian as soy beans are a type of vegetable.
People are so childish when it comes to vegan/vegetarian food, like why are you getting your knickers in a twist over the absence of meat, you're not being forced to eat it, calm down
I assume it's because they see the existence of vegan food as a moral judgement on them as meat eaters and it freaks them out. Cos anyone would get narky when their food source is threatened and when someone says "The factory farming industry is despicably cruel and we shouldn't support it." there's literally no come back. So they just get mad at the mere existence of vegans and vegan food, as if that will change the fact that they are participating in a corrupt system. I get it, so few people have the power, time, energy and money to change how things are done, even just for themselves, but it doesn't excuse how incredibly stupid and selfish the attitude is.
I think people always forget that words are just common use descriptors for concepts and they can be bent to some degree in order to fit the language needs of the individual or the society that uses them. They arent immutably tied to that thing that the word typically describes. Language and the meanings of them is just common usage. Something simply being reminiscient of something else is enough for me to call it by that, just in a different way. An example pulling from food is the Cauliflower Steak, or Vegan Bacon. Nobody is claiming these things to be steak or bacon respectively, but they are prepared/manufactured/eaten in a way reminiscent of those things. So, for the purpose of making the name easier, thats what we call them in everyday life.
"I respect that you don't eat meat. Please respect that I don't eat fake meat." - Raven
This vid made me subscribe.. thanks for the objective view ... think all these debates are pointless and are just people butthurt
Really enjoying these informative shorts
At the end of the day, most vegans are former non-vegans. The meat and dairy-based terminology is useful shorthand for what we're replacing.
That makes sense in many cases, but not really when used in a way that doesn’t reference a specific form of food or style of cooking. For example, a vegan chicken nugget, nugget already describes the form so adding chicken as an adjective when there is none is extraneous and not properly descriptive. Similar to the example he gives of a lobster roll, but with shrimp (he’s wrong on that one) that would be a shrimp roll, not a lobster roll, the roll already describes the roll and lobster states what’s in it. It’s the same as saying a salmon hamburger, or a veal chicken parmesan.
@@kevinmoynihan5118
No, the word nugget does not fully describe the product if we're talking about those vegan chicken nuggets. A nugget can be almost anything.
@@kevinmoynihan5118
I used to work in a vegetarian restaurant, and we had veggie nuggets on the menu. They were made from potatoes, carrots, broccoli, breadcrumbs etc and were fried. They resembled chicken nuggets in appearance on the outside, but were nothing like chicken nuggets in flavor or texture.
We called them veggie nuggets because that's what they were. If you Google "veggie nuggets recipe" you'll find many different versions of this recipe, and they are mostly reminiscent of pakoras or falafel. This is old-school vegetarian cooking.
The vegan products that have come out in the last several years are more complex (highly processed) and are made with gluten, soy, pea protein, mycoprotein (a fungus product) or a combination of these. They are specifically designed to simulate actual chicken.
That's why they are named vegan chicken nuggets rather than veggie nuggets. They are two entirely different things.
Coconut Nipples ..got me 😂
I'm just annoyed by the fact some foods sound much more delicious if in kept a descriptor instead of a "vegan" one. For example, mushroom burger is something that I'd definitely love to try. However if it was only described as "vegan burger" it wouldn't call my attention as I'd associate it with processed foods and a flavor I'm not familiar.
I think you're thinking of a Portobello burger, still called that. Something called a "vegan burger" is more often than not, meant to somewhat imitate the taste and/or texture of a meat burger.
It’s interesting, when something is labelled as vegan people are way less likely to eat it. Even if it’s something that’s always vegan (eg potato chips), if it has a big vegan label on it it decreases sales by like 20%.
Thing is, vegans will often argue that hotdogs don't have dogs in them, conveniently "forgetting" that hotdogs were never marketed as a dogmeat substitute that "tastes just like the real thing!!". That's where a lot of people take issue.
Yeah, the vegans can make a dish called "green buffalos" where they fill a green bell pepper with a ton of vegan stuff and cook it in olive oil. If they called it "vegan Buffalo steak" them they would be banned from the cookout, but if they just let it be what it is, gave it a silly name, everything would be fine
"Ants on a log" is an amazing snack but nobody treats it like some ant substitute.
@@druhu4590"baby back ribs" would be a lot darker of a dish 😂
Citation
Fucking
Needed
How do you know it doesn't taste like dogs?
@thaliacrafts407
I think you are confused.
There is no reason for a vegan to take issue with a hot dog being free of dog flesh.
Hot dogs are a type of sausage that are often made from pork. Do you think Orthodox Jews should not be allowed to call their version 'Kosher Hot Dogs' because they use beef instead of pork?
Since hot dogs can be made with beef, pork, turkey or a combination of all three as it's just a style of sausage, it makes sense that vegans should be allowed to call their version 'Vegan Hot Dogs.'
It's actually a good explanation. It applies in a most cases. I personally still feel some content creators stretch definitions to some ridiculous points sometimes, but I see what you're saying.
That's the problem is they do a hot dog has a specific definition and fit and people know what that means, if you're hot dog isn't made out of those ingredients it's not a hot dog.. linguistics isn't complicated
I hate explaining my vegan chicken patties at work its just food
Are they made of vegan chickens? 🤔
@@KraziEyevinno, but they’re similar in taste, appearance, and function to a non-vegan chicken patty.
@@thenarwhalmageno they’re not
@@Dctctx I am living in your walls
They are not chicken. There is no chicken in them. They are veggie patties. The name "veggie patty" is easily understood, and does not list an ingredient that is not found in the dish.
The only thing more annoying than vegans are people complaining about vegans
The only thing more annoying than that is vegans complaining about people complaining about vegans.
@@MBaron14 youre trying too hard
@@phylippezimmermannpaquin2062 *you're
@@MBaron14
You're brilliant! You were able to notice a poster's typo! That missing apostrophe was criminal.
Now this is a man who understands the interesting culinary challenge of vegan cooking
i swear ya tell someone you're a vegetarian and you always get the same like 5 questions asked and it's practically always done in bad faith i should just start carrying around a business card or some shit for these people with a little FAQ on the back
The difference is, “meatballs” are a description, and “veggieballs” is just as clear an example. Same with “vegetarian chicken nuggets”, just say “veggie nuggets”
@allthebanter9316
Veggieballs would not be a good name for vegan "meatballs" as many people would think they were falafel or something similar.
Same with just using the word nuggets, I wouldn't necessarily think it would resemble chicken nuggets.
@@stephenlurie821 People call chicken nuggets simply nuggets all the time, just like calling a hamburger a burger. Veggie nuggets pretty clearly describe nuggets made from vegetables. I don’t know what else a veggie nugget would be.
@@kevinmoynihan5118
A nugget made from vegetables could be any number of things. If I saw Veggie Nuggets on a package my first thought might be batter dipped and fried cauliflower - which is delicious, by the way. Broccoli and zucchini can also be prepared this way.
Although soy protein aka TVP, and gluten aka wheat meat are vegetarian, most people don't think of them when they see the word vegetable.
It seems like referring to them as vegan chicken nuggets would be most clear. I always read the ingredient lists, but if I just saw the word nuggets...
@@stephenlurie821 this may be a cultural thing then, but where I live “veggie” refers to vegetarian, not just vegetables. So “veggie nuggets” would be “vegetarian nuggets” not “vegetable nuggets”. And “veggie nugget” is no worse a descriptor than “veggie chicken nugget”
@@allthebanter9316
Hi there!
I understand that when people use the term 'veggie' they may mean vegetarian or vegan. For example, if I hear someone order a Veggie Pizza, I figure they want a regular pizza with all the vegetable toppings. If they didn't want cheese, they would specify that they wanted vegan 'cheez' or no cheese at all.
What I was trying to say was 'veggie nuggets' sounds ambiguous to me. If it isn't described as 'vegan chicken nuggets' or 'veggie chicken nuggets' I wouldn't know what to expect. I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that the nuggets were going to be an imitation chicken product.
I mean, if someone asked me if I wanted some nuggets to snack on, I'd think "Oh, I wonder if that's chocolate covered walnuts or granola clusters.". If they elaborated and said they were heating up some veggie nuggets, I'd still wonder what they were offering me. Like, it could be falafel balls or tempura cauliflower.
I'm guessing you're talking about a product that resembles white meat chicken that is breaded and deep fried. If that were described as 'veggie chicken nuggets' I would understand.