And now Taylor has a V-Class bracing system. I tried a spanish guitar at a shop and it was so much lighter than any guitar I've held before, it makes sense to me now. Thanks Randy for the cool explanation.
that lightness contributes greatly to the sound of the guitar, Taylors new V bracing also seems to be a plus, I have a Taylor 714CE here right now (videos coming soon) is just an awesome sounding guitar, it too is extremely light.
Randy Schartiger Awesome! Looking forward to that Taylor video. Where I live music shops only bring Yamaha, Fender, Takamine for acoustics, so I get my other brands junkie fix off of RUclips haha
Hey Randy, You are right again, NayyWooo!!! Ole Cf and his cronies designed and started using x-bracing in the early 1850's, and it's been around ever since. Good info . Keep up the great work you are putting out there. Kevin
Thanks Suzanna! I've been held up on gluing the neck on because humidity here has been peaked! Today is the first day in over a week it has been below 80%, usually been hanging at 100% and I really don't want to set this neck when humidity is that high. I probably am not going to see it below 70% so most likely will get it tonight. Hold on! :P
Great! I know what you're talking about. I try to keep the interior here around 58%-62% when I'm gluing. Sometimes it gets a little higher depending on what it's doing out side.
My wife says I must have really forward shifted bracing because a prominent belly started appearing a few years back. But I figure the worst that'll happen is a increase in action - and I can live with that.
There really is a lot involved when you consider the types of wood the bracing and top are, and the tightness of the grain particularly in the lower bout of the top. Thanks Tim!
Standard X- tapered bracing has done me well for many years. 58 D-28. I have a a few FS bracing gtrs and they just have too much boom and overtones for my preference. Even some bluegrass players still prefer a standard X braced guitar. Love your channel.
Very interesting, especially as I'm very heavy-handed when it comes to playing guitar..that's probably why my old handmade Fylde acoustic I had a few years ago didn't last too well !
Hey Randy I see some companies use glue cloth across the X brace and some use a wood Cap. On the X brace and some don’t use anything. What are your thoughts is it entirely necessary or is it just an added strength measure?
I still bust out laughing when you do the antlers! Martin was the first major guitar maker to use X bracing. They did not patent it, and soon, everyone was using it. A D-28 is an example of standard bracing. It isn't shifted or scalloped, which is why it has been the work horse of Martin for so many years. Martinites, correct me if I am wrong. I am wrong a lot, according to my wife. I also think lower priced guitars hold up so well because they were built for beginners and had to be tough. Some of them are laminates, so aren't as sensitive to humidity. I have an old Martin DM that is a boomer, but it lacks the clarity of my more expensive Martins.
i am thinking about laminating some carbon fiber on one or both x braces or maybe the bridge plate on my next build.i tried this on a guitar a long time back.it is still holding up,.
Loved the information Randy! What effect does brace material have? For example, Bob Taylor said a sitka top with Adirondack bracing is more desirable than an adi top with sitka bracing. Ive also seen rosewood braces as well Is it the same properties as back and side woods?
Great information. But do you think there could be an in between bracing? One not to thick or to thin. If you built a guitar with ladder style bracing and put scallop bracing in it. Do you think that give it better sound? One last question. If you were going to rebuild an old Kay or Stella or Harmony guitar from start to finish. What would you do with the bracing? I also have a sujestion. Randy, Why don't you post your PO Box address on here. And allow all of the viewers to send you a what ever they can afford. Whether it's just one dollar or five dollars. What ever people can afford. If everyone sent just a little bit. At the end you should have enough money to buy a new buffer and air blower. What ever it is you need. I know most can not afford a lot. And some of us don't care to mess with PayPal or things like that. We all enjoy your videos. And we all learn from them. Myself included. I don't mind sending a few bucks. But I prefer to send it by money order or plain cash. Besides Randy knows what tools he needs and where he can get them. Most of us don't know what tools prrciestly you need. If I knew the excat tool or part you need. I'd be willing to bet I could find the part or tools at wholesale prices. Randy I hope you and the viewers will consider my sujestion. And maybe we can help you get the tools you need. Without breaking anyone's bank, lol. After all is said and done. Small change will add up to large change over time. Randy l mean no disrespect toward you or your viewers. This is just an ideal of mine. I thought I'd run it by you and your viewers. Thanks everyone.
By coincidence I have been doing a bit of 'research' into bracing the last couple of days. I knew it was important but I couldn't quite understand why there are so many bracing patterns and what the difference is. Thanks to your video I now have a better understanding. You make a very interesting point about cheap guitars lasting longer and expensive ones not so, depending on conditions obviously. I am interested in getting a good acoustic but I am a little worried about the detrimental effect the Scottish weather might have on it. The temperature and humidity can vary quite a lot. I'm beginning to think I'd be better to find a decent sounding cheap guitar than spending a lot on one that might go wrong quickly. Any recommendations for a mid priced but sturdy acoustic? I've even had a look at carbon fibre acoustics, which can handle the changing conditions but they sound 'weird' IMO. I'd rather get a more traditional acoustic.
I think carbon fiber guitars sound a little weird too, they do hold up well under almost any conditions but I'd get tired of that funky sound I'm sure. Most Yamaha acoustic guitars are built like a tank, yet some of them sound pretty good and occasionally you'll run onto one that sounds as good as a Martin, if you really want an acoustic that's guaranteed to sound good and good chance it'll hold up check out lower end Blueridge, they IMO are the best when you consider the sound and durability over time.
Many thanks for the good info and advice. I haven't looked at Blueridge guitars before but I just have and they look interesting. I even had a quick look at the local second hand market and although there isn't any close by on sale at the moment, I'll keep my eyes open. I did find one that's a few miles from me which has something odd in the listing and I wondered if you'd be interested in checking it out. The guy selling it says its a dearer model BR 143, but it's 'incorrectly' labelled inside as a cheaper BR 43. Do you think this is likely or is the guy at it? Here's the link to the listing, if you're interested ... www.gumtree.com/p/guitar-instrument/blueridge-historic-series-br-143-000-acoustic-guitar/1240588468
i don't think that's a br143 but a br43 as the sticker inside says, it's for sure in new like condition according to the pics and probably the braces and everything else is in as good of condition as it looks, be careful tho, being posted up as a 143 seems kind of fishy. :)
lol, yea too fishy for this fish. I don't have a lot of spare cash at the moment so getting an acoustic is on the back boiler for now. The more knowledge the better for when I do buy one. Cheers. :0)
Hello mighty master Randy! Would you please give a piece of advice? 1. My guitar has bellied up noticeably. 2. Not any place of the top has sunk in. 3. The bridge lifted a bit and tilted a tiny bit towards the fretboard. 4. Knocked it all over and touched every brace - every one of them seems sound. 5. String action did not raise and the plain of the fretboard is equal to bridge. If every point is right, may regluing the bridge and putting a lighter gauge strings be all it needs? Or the unwarping of the top MUST be done?
Lexonn my 57 Martin d28 had that prob. I took the bridge off cause it split years ago from the same problem I believe.than I humidified it for a week and the belly almost disappeared it has a lower action now I was able to take it down to about an 1/8in at the 12thas low as I can make it on the first.woth no buzzing or misffretting. I got lucky.
I would take the bridge off and humidify from inside the body for at least one week then glue the bridge back on. It sounds like exactly what a Bridge Doctor would fix if you wanted to get rid of any belly left after humidifying.
Good stuff again. Has me wondering if theres a bracing method that can sound good n last longer too. Being an electric player I've not looked into it so much but I'm still curious about it.
one bracing pattern that would hold up over time and last without changing would be the ideal pattern, most big companies tend to believe the x bracing pattern is the best but one would think with all the technology of today someone would come up with something actually better.
I'm thinking bracing that is flat as possible but perhaps wider along with some different light but strong materials as another commenter had said, that could do it. My thought is something that restricts air movement less but still adds structural rigidity.
Thanks Randy. Are you anywheres near Parkersburg? Me & the wifey drove 8 hours from NJ out to there the other summer to trade 2 guitars for one. I loved it out there. Good people. Great scenery. And if I hit the lottery, I'll buy you a new airbrush & buffer.
lol Parkersburg must be a hot spot, I meet a guy from OH. there occasionally to pick up banjo necks he builds, I'm roughly a 2 hour drive from there. I hope you win the lottery! :D
I got the belly outta of that new 12 string. Humidity for a few days then I'd check it ….it got better then tuned up , Then the belly would come back , so I took some weights & put over the belly w/more sponges w/water for about a week….it's Flat & Holding! Hold ON!!!! lol Btw did you hear about the Rose Wood "crackdown"? All Rosewood is now on a list you gotta have papers on it FENDER & Gibson I think will not be making Rose wood Guitar necks sides…maybe they will do some for a up charge on custom shop gtr's.
Yep it took that belly a long time to form and likely will take a long while to get rid of it and keep it gone, Just like humidifying, people don't realize how long it takes a guitar "normally" to dry out and that it takes a very long time to get them to maintain proper humidity again once it's up to par. Yeah I know rosewood is becoming a thing of the past, they've pretty much used it all up when it comes to high grade rosewood like Brazilian and East Indian.
But it was Brand New came in w/a belly I stacked weights on & two Cast Iron Skillets a mason hammer head…I guess 50 Pounds of weight w/the Humidity flattened it right on out.
There is a lot involved in acoustic bracing and the top, types of wood used on each and the tightness of the grain, it gets deep lol thanks for watching brother.
So cheaper guitars are built better and better guitars are built cheaper. Got it. The exact reason i never plan on spending $1,000+ on a "better" guitar. Doesn't matter how good a guitar sounds if it spends half of the year at a luthiers shop.
Pretty much so, the old timers used to say an instrument sounded its best right at the brink of it falling apart. Cheaper instruments usually hold together longer because of their heavy build but almost always never sound as good.
@@RandySchartiger Thank you. It helped me a lot, it is difficult to find information on top and harmonious fan for those who are starting out like me at Luthieria. In Brazil I easily find woods like Purple Heart, Louro Freijó (Good substitute for Alder), Marfin (Substitute for Maple), Nogueira, Imbuia (Brazilian Walnut), Cabreuva (Abundant in South of country, great for back) has an incomparable perfume, Cedro Rosa (Mogno), Muiracatiara , among an infinity of other local woods, Brazil is a huge country, imagine the amount of wood species. Funny that even though they probably have the best in the world, the Luthiers here still use imported woods such as Maple, Alder, Ebano, etc.
Nice video. I'm a guitar builder for 10 plus years . your info is dead on correct!!
Tnx
And now Taylor has a V-Class bracing system.
I tried a spanish guitar at a shop and it was so much lighter than any guitar I've held before, it makes sense to me now. Thanks Randy for the cool explanation.
that lightness contributes greatly to the sound of the guitar, Taylors new V bracing also seems to be a plus, I have a Taylor 714CE here right now (videos coming soon) is just an awesome sounding guitar, it too is extremely light.
Randy Schartiger Awesome! Looking forward to that Taylor video. Where I live music shops only bring Yamaha, Fender, Takamine for acoustics, so I get my other brands junkie fix off of RUclips haha
Randy you are a gentleman and a scholar, thank you for educating me with your fine videos I learn so much from you , when I watch them!
you're welcome bro thank you for watching! :)
And a fine judge of good whiskey!
This dude embodies America. We have some cool people here. Thanks a lot.
Hey Randy,
You are right again, NayyWooo!!! Ole Cf and his cronies designed and started using x-bracing in the early 1850's, and it's been around ever since. Good info . Keep up the great work you are putting out there.
Kevin
I was pretty sure Martin designed them around 150 years ago but not sure enough to quote it lol thanks for watching brother!
Great info Randy. I like the different bracing, different sound. The neck is looking great. Can't wait to see the neck glued on. Hoold Ooon! :D
Thanks Suzanna! I've been held up on gluing the neck on because humidity here has been peaked! Today is the first day in over a week it has been below 80%, usually been hanging at 100% and I really don't want to set this neck when humidity is that high. I probably am not going to see it below 70% so most likely will get it tonight. Hold on! :P
Great! I know what you're talking about. I try to keep the interior here around 58%-62% when I'm gluing. Sometimes it gets a little higher depending on what it's doing out side.
My wife says I must have really forward shifted bracing because a prominent belly started appearing a few years back. But I figure the worst that'll happen is a increase in action - and I can live with that.
100amplifiers humidify it man
LMFAO! Humidify it! LOL!
Randy Schartiger Probably with beer. ^^
A beer belly. Yes, that's what my ex called it, which I wasn't braced for.
I can them "six-pack abs".
Excellent, this is a topic that I thought about but never pursued any info to understand it.
There really is a lot involved when you consider the types of wood the bracing and top are, and the tightness of the grain particularly in the lower bout of the top. Thanks Tim!
Brilliant explanation. Thank you. Love your channel, new in town!
Thanks very much for taking the time to explain all that. Lots of information there. BTW, your accent is priceless.
Thanks for the breakdown Randy I've often wondered about the bracing 👍
Thanks for watching my friend, it makes a huge difference in the sound.
Standard X- tapered bracing has done me well for many years. 58 D-28. I have a a few FS bracing gtrs and they just have too much boom and overtones for my preference. Even some bluegrass players still prefer a standard X braced guitar. Love your channel.
I thought Martin invented the Scalloped Bracing System...Very informative video, Randy!
Very interesting, especially as I'm very heavy-handed when it comes to playing guitar..that's probably why my old handmade Fylde acoustic I had a few years ago didn't last too well !
Thanks for the info Randy. I always wondered about the differences in bracing on acoustic guitars.
Thanks Randy. That clears some wondering for me.
Very good information Randy 👍
Hey Randy I see some companies use glue cloth across the X brace and some use a wood Cap. On the X brace and some don’t use anything. What are your thoughts is it entirely necessary or is it just an added strength measure?
I still bust out laughing when you do the antlers! Martin was the first major guitar maker to use X bracing. They did not patent it, and soon, everyone was using it. A D-28 is an example of standard bracing. It isn't shifted or scalloped, which is why it has been the work horse of Martin for so many years. Martinites, correct me if I am wrong. I am wrong a lot, according to my wife.
I also think lower priced guitars hold up so well because they were built for beginners and had to be tough. Some of them are laminates, so aren't as sensitive to humidity. I have an old Martin DM that is a boomer, but it lacks the clarity of my more expensive Martins.
i am thinking about laminating some carbon fiber on one or both x braces or maybe the bridge plate on my next build.i tried this on a guitar a long time back.it is still holding up,.
That would be a cool build! Carbon fiber hardly chances at all with the climate the way wood does so it should last. Thanks for watching!
That's a great idea.
happich simichrome polish is available on amazon for $10.34 for a 1.7oz tube. another great video, cheers randy
Just ordered a new tube from there yesterday! :)Thanks mate and cheers!
@@RandySchartiger
Thank you helped me a lot
Great video man. A lot of great info.
Interesting info, Randy!
Have a great Wednesday,
Cristina
Thanks so much Cristina, there really are a lot of things involved in acoustic guitar tops and bracing.
Good info brother! I never knew all that. Rock on!
Thanks for tuning in brother!
Good video Randy!!!)))🎸🎸🎸👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼😊
Come on guys let's all chip in a $1and get Randy a buffer and a air brush paint thing we can do it and remember that the poor fella never sleeps
Of chip in a buck a month a Patreon and win a guitar! Either or both would be awesome for us all! :)
Loved the information Randy! What effect does brace material have? For example, Bob Taylor said a sitka top with Adirondack bracing is more desirable than an adi top with sitka bracing. Ive also seen rosewood braces as well
Is it the same properties as back and side woods?
Great information. But do you think there could be an in between bracing? One not to thick or to thin. If you built a guitar with ladder style bracing and put scallop bracing in it. Do you think that give it better sound? One last question. If you were going to rebuild an old Kay or Stella or Harmony guitar from start to finish. What would you do with the bracing? I also have a sujestion. Randy, Why don't you post your PO Box address on here. And allow all of the viewers to send you a what ever they can afford. Whether it's just one dollar or five dollars. What ever people can afford. If everyone sent just a little bit. At the end you should have enough money to buy a new buffer and air blower. What ever it is you need. I know most can not afford a lot. And some of us don't care to mess with PayPal or things like that. We all enjoy your videos. And we all learn from them. Myself included. I don't mind sending a few bucks. But I prefer to send it by money order or plain cash. Besides Randy knows what tools he needs and where he can get them. Most of us don't know what tools prrciestly you need. If I knew the excat tool or part you need. I'd be willing to bet I could find the part or tools at wholesale prices. Randy I hope you and the viewers will consider my sujestion. And maybe we can help you get the tools you need. Without breaking anyone's bank, lol. After all is said and done. Small change will add up to large change over time. Randy l mean no disrespect toward you or your viewers. This is just an ideal of mine. I thought I'd run it by you and your viewers. Thanks everyone.
By coincidence I have been doing a bit of 'research' into bracing the last couple of days. I knew it was important but I couldn't quite understand why there are so many bracing patterns and what the difference is. Thanks to your video I now have a better understanding.
You make a very interesting point about cheap guitars lasting longer and expensive ones not so, depending on conditions obviously. I am interested in getting a good acoustic but I am a little worried about the detrimental effect the Scottish weather might have on it. The temperature and humidity can vary quite a lot. I'm beginning to think I'd be better to find a decent sounding cheap guitar than spending a lot on one that might go wrong quickly.
Any recommendations for a mid priced but sturdy acoustic?
I've even had a look at carbon fibre acoustics, which can handle the changing conditions but they sound 'weird' IMO. I'd rather get a more traditional acoustic.
I think carbon fiber guitars sound a little weird too, they do hold up well under almost any conditions but I'd get tired of that funky sound I'm sure. Most Yamaha acoustic guitars are built like a tank, yet some of them sound pretty good and occasionally you'll run onto one that sounds as good as a Martin, if you really want an acoustic that's guaranteed to sound good and good chance it'll hold up check out lower end Blueridge, they IMO are the best when you consider the sound and durability over time.
Many thanks for the good info and advice. I haven't looked at Blueridge guitars before but I just have and they look interesting. I even had a quick look at the local second hand market and although there isn't any close by on sale at the moment, I'll keep my eyes open. I did find one that's a few miles from me which has something odd in the listing and I wondered if you'd be interested in checking it out. The guy selling it says its a dearer model BR 143, but it's 'incorrectly' labelled inside as a cheaper BR 43. Do you think this is likely or is the guy at it? Here's the link to the listing, if you're interested ...
www.gumtree.com/p/guitar-instrument/blueridge-historic-series-br-143-000-acoustic-guitar/1240588468
i don't think that's a br143 but a br43 as the sticker inside says, it's for sure in new like condition according to the pics and probably the braces and everything else is in as good of condition as it looks, be careful tho, being posted up as a 143 seems kind of fishy. :)
lol, yea too fishy for this fish. I don't have a lot of spare cash at the moment so getting an acoustic is on the back boiler for now. The more knowledge the better for when I do buy one. Cheers. :0)
Great info; thanks.
My Gibson Hummingbird has double X bracing from the factory. 1972 Hummingbird Custom.
My later model Gibson Hummingbird 2007 model has single X bracing.
Hello mighty master Randy!
Would you please give a piece of advice?
1. My guitar has bellied up noticeably.
2. Not any place of the top has sunk in.
3. The bridge lifted a bit and tilted a tiny bit towards the fretboard.
4. Knocked it all over and touched every brace - every one of them seems sound.
5. String action did not raise and the plain of the fretboard is equal to bridge.
If every point is right, may regluing the bridge and putting a lighter gauge strings be all it needs?
Or the unwarping of the top MUST be done?
Lexonn What is the humidity where you keep the guitar? Could be too much humidity.
Lexonn my 57 Martin d28 had that prob. I took the bridge off cause it split years ago from the same problem I believe.than I humidified it for a week and the belly almost disappeared it has a lower action now I was able to take it down to about an 1/8in at the 12thas low as I can make it on the first.woth no buzzing or misffretting. I got lucky.
I would take the bridge off and humidify from inside the body for at least one week then glue the bridge back on. It sounds like exactly what a Bridge Doctor would fix if you wanted to get rid of any belly left after humidifying.
Randy Schartiger looks like we were thinking along the same lines there bubba.
Randy Schartiger dam man your getting smarter every day lol
Great info, buddy!
Thanks mang! I'm going to scallop braces in a Martin D28 guitar tonight!
bracing... yeah, what he said.
Many thanks Jerry!
I am learning a lot from your channel. Thanks man. Not everyone is willing to share..
I appreciate you watchin man and am glad to hear my videos helped.
Good stuff again. Has me wondering if theres a bracing method that can sound good n last longer too. Being an electric player I've not looked into it so much but I'm still curious about it.
one bracing pattern that would hold up over time and last without changing would be the ideal pattern, most big companies tend to believe the x bracing pattern is the best but one would think with all the technology of today someone would come up with something actually better.
I'm thinking bracing that is flat as possible but perhaps wider along with some different light but strong materials as another commenter had said, that could do it. My thought is something that restricts air movement less but still adds structural rigidity.
Great video.
Thanks for the help👌🏼 god bless
Thanks Randy. Are you anywheres near Parkersburg? Me & the wifey drove 8 hours from NJ out to there the other summer to trade 2 guitars for one. I loved it out there. Good people. Great scenery. And if I hit the lottery, I'll buy you a new airbrush & buffer.
lol Parkersburg must be a hot spot, I meet a guy from OH. there occasionally to pick up banjo necks he builds, I'm roughly a 2 hour drive from there. I hope you win the lottery! :D
is it normal that my yamaha guitar has a cloth in the brace on it wrapped in the center???plss
if you mean the center of the X brace then yes it's supposed to be there, that clothe is on almost every X brace design for enforcement.
I noticed that some of the higher guitars are now offering ladder braced models.
I got the belly outta of that new 12 string. Humidity for a few days then I'd check it ….it got better then tuned up , Then the belly would come back , so I took some weights & put over the belly w/more sponges w/water for about a week….it's Flat & Holding! Hold ON!!!! lol
Btw did you hear about the Rose Wood "crackdown"? All Rosewood is now on a list you gotta have papers on it FENDER & Gibson I think will not be making Rose wood Guitar necks sides…maybe they will do some for a up charge on custom shop gtr's.
Yep it took that belly a long time to form and likely will take a long while to get rid of it and keep it gone, Just like humidifying, people don't realize how long it takes a guitar "normally" to dry out and that it takes a very long time to get them to maintain proper humidity again once it's up to par. Yeah I know rosewood is becoming a thing of the past, they've pretty much used it all up when it comes to high grade rosewood like Brazilian and East Indian.
But it was Brand New came in w/a belly I stacked weights on & two Cast Iron Skillets a mason hammer head…I guess 50 Pounds of weight w/the Humidity flattened it right on out.
I do that two or three times a year to all my guitars with no string tension. Works great.
Holy Crap! I did not know!
There is a lot involved in acoustic bracing and the top, types of wood used on each and the tightness of the grain, it gets deep lol thanks for watching brother.
is that bridge on upside down?😮
Shawn Duncan it's what's known as a reverse belly bridge. Most J45s have this arrangement.
Subscribed bro
thanks so much brother! and welcome aboard!
So cheaper guitars are built better and better guitars are built cheaper. Got it. The exact reason i never plan on spending $1,000+ on a "better" guitar. Doesn't matter how good a guitar sounds if it spends half of the year at a luthiers shop.
So cheaper guitars are over-engineered and expensive ones are more like sports cars i.e. higher tuning, so more likely to fail sooner.
Pretty much so, the old timers used to say an instrument sounded its best right at the brink of it falling apart. Cheaper instruments usually hold together longer because of their heavy build but almost always never sound as good.
That's a lot of animals in a really small area.
Good info Brother
Many thanks for checking it out brother!
@@RandySchartiger
Thank you. It helped me a lot, it is difficult to find information on top and harmonious fan for those who are starting out like me at Luthieria.
In Brazil I easily find woods like Purple Heart, Louro Freijó (Good substitute for Alder), Marfin (Substitute for Maple), Nogueira, Imbuia (Brazilian Walnut), Cabreuva (Abundant in South of country, great for back) has an incomparable perfume, Cedro Rosa (Mogno), Muiracatiara , among an infinity of other local woods, Brazil is a huge country, imagine the amount of wood species.
Funny that even though they probably have the best in the world, the Luthiers here still use imported woods such as Maple, Alder, Ebano, etc.