Lost Trains: Liverpool Street to Addiscombe
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- Опубликовано: 30 май 2024
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I like the idea of a series on abondonned routes. It will complement the series by other RUclipsrs on abandonned stations and the least used stations.
Don't worry Jago, we're here for the weird!
We're a weird mob.
When I used to commute into Liverpool Street, I remember seeing Shoreditch through a cutting from the train window. Didn't understand at the time why there was an underground train sat off to the corner.
Working at Shoreditch station you could literally walk along the old trackbed to the lines out of Liverpool Street. Nothing really to block you.
Questipn:
Why particularly choose "Addiscombe" to run services into Liverpool St: why not, say, Beckenham Junction or Bromley South? Were there a lot of City types living in or near Addiscombe who worked in or near Liverpool Street (who didn't want to walk there from London Bridge each morning)? I'm curious.
You covered this really but in reverse: these days, to do the same journey, you'd have to take 4 trains:
1) catch the Croydon Tram (Addiscombe to Elmers End)
2) South Eastern from E End to New Cross
3) London Overground from NC to Whitechapel
4) and Elizabeth Line from WC to Liverpool St/Moorgate.
So yes, a "one seat" service fir that journey would today be preferable to the 4 listed above - for the city-slickers of Addiscombe, certainly.
Noël
Reason for doing video on Deptford Bridge - because it is there.😊
Reasons for doing a video about Addiscombe - because it isn't there? 😊
Not a lifting bridge any more as Deptford Creek is closed for shipping.
Famous Last Words: “…because I’m weird like that…”
I like a bit of weirdness.
No, hardly weird. Definitely eccentric. Or possibly 'I think differently from other people'.
What is "normal" these days?
All the best people are at least a bit strange if not somewhat weird :-)
Nearly not off topic. Bow Curve in Passenger Use on June 15th all day 1/2 hourly. For those that need their Fenchurch Street Stratford Direct itch scraching
I don't really have anything constructive to say beyond the fact that I'm excited for more in this series! Excellent work as always Mr. Hazzard.
Mrs S ( ex. East London Line) watched this with me and suddenly shouted out the name of the very last SM (Station Manager) at Shoreditch. Just asked her his name again for posterity...and she's forgotten it! 🙄
Now remembered: Mickey Soper 🙂
There’s so much walking involved that I need to top up on my water
0:22 I mean I'm pretty sure Jago could make a video on that and it would still be interesting!
Sounds like an amazing series. The first service that comes to mind is Watford junction to Liverpool lime street (I think that's where it went). Originally went into broad street but obvs you can't do that
(lord)Liverpool Street
The Graham Road curve was built so the trains could access Liverpool Street. Now only used for empty stock movements.
"you can't do that"
Told you before.
Addiscombe & then Beckenham (near New Beckenham station) were my old stomping grounds when I lived in London, but I worked north in the Holloway area. I would have loved this - my commute would have been infinitely easier.
Don’t forget that platforms 1 and 2 at Liv St used to be through platforms onto the Met/Circle line. Photos available in Great Eastern Society publications.
Could easily have done Liverpool Street to Croydon Central taking the East London Line to New Cross Gate.. Another service around the same time as this one.
Bearing in mind the South Eastern's original main line is the line from London Bridge to Redhill and then to Tonbridge, which forced the LBSCR to build the Quarry Line to avoid the congestion at Redhill. The LBSCR built the now closed Coulsdon North station as Coulsdon South was built and owned by the SER (as was Merstham). The map at Victoria identifies these 2 stations as SER stations.
If you depart Liv St or approach it from the far side, you can briefly glimpse what's left of Shoreditch at track level. Not much, mind! I've tried to capture it multiple times but alas the train is normally travelling too quickly.
A great piece of trivia with the 90s refurbed ELL stations is that you can see the slight difference between East London orange on the frieze and Overground orange with the platform signs.
You've been stomping a lot on my old turf recently Jago :)
I remember the blue hoardings that used to surround the East London line platform at New Cross when it closed. The CCTV cameras still have Underground stickers on them, and on the approach you can still catch a glimpse of New Cross depot!
There's still numerous signs around New Cross and New Cross Gate directing passengers to the LU East London line, or the subsequent replacement bus services that ran for a few years.
Lewisham of course has changed a lot since my youth, I think most notably the removal of the roundabout and gardens around the station.
Was born in Lewisham Hospital so really that whole area means a lot to me.
I'll be really looking forward to seeing you do all the Lost Trains that went over tracks that the Metropolitan District Railway squatted on and then took over.
There are four platforms at East Putney and the line from there to Wimbledon is owned by Network Rail and the stations used to be run by British Rail staff. When I was a kid we went on a special BR train from Southfields to the seaside. And late one night, I got on a train from Waterloo that went via Wandsworth Town straight through Southfields to Wimbledon, only to get off at Wimbledon and find there were no more District Line trains back to Southfields.
Reproducing the services that used the two other platforms at East Putney would be a bit of a challenge, but I'd love to see the entire routes. Who knows, maybe, if Crossrail 2 happens, and we get some other projects that free up capacity, maybe some of these services will come back in some sort of form.
At the very least, I would love to see the London Overground trains that terminate at Clapham Junction extend on the East Putney Station and turn around there.
4:55 Suddenly got a really strange sense of deja vu there. No idea why.
There's quite a bit there's quite a bit
they changed something in the Matrix
Jago Hazard channel just practicing a bit of rapping😂
Perhaps you were a railway engine in a previous life?
One of the Hazzards of this line of work!
Edgware to Kings Cross on the GNR (via Finsbury Park)? My grandfather took this route in I believe 1939, at least once.
The Edgware, Highgate and London Railway. Opened 1867, closed to passenger traffic 1954, closed to goods traffic 1964. most track removed 1971. The surviving section is now the Northern Line between Highgate and Mill Hill East.
@@Tevildo I still think that extending from Mill Hill East to Edgware is a good idea. Would obviously cost millions though but adds capacity to the Northern Line.
"You really shouldn't take that route. My grandfather took that route once. Once!"
@@davidjames579 They stopped passenger services in 1939 so he took one of the last trains. I wonder how long it took?
What a lovely idea for a series. I would suggest retracing the route from Broad Street to Watford Junction as it was run in its final years into Liverpool Street via the Graham Road Curve off the North London Line. Its current incarnation is as part of the Overground system (and not from Liverpool Street).
I love being able to vicariously poke around in all the little nooks and crannies in and around London. I sincerely wish I had another century (at least) to just explore the city and its environs.
By the time you'd finished you'd have to start all over again.
@@PeterGaunt That would be fine too.
You're at least 100 years old?
@@davidjames579 Sometimes I feel like it.
@@mcarp555 it's when you said you'd like Another 100 years
I find the East London part interesting. Liverpool Street is close to the financial district of London. If you were commuting from here to the South East it could be convenient to change at New Cross or New Cross Gate opposed to going via London Bridge. I guess going into London would be fine. However going out of London would be a pain trying to get onto a paced train in NewCross!
Some interesting Tube services that existed into this century are Upminster to Hammersmith (H&C), Acton Town to Barking via Edgware Road, Ealing Broadway to Edgware Road via Aldgate, Kensington Olympia to Baker Street via Aldgate, Barking to Edgware Road via Victoria and Plaistow to Harrow-on-the-Hill.
Excellent - this looks like my sort of day out, trains, dlr, trains, bus, tram and walking!
I can remember back in the 80s, taking my mk1 Ford Escort from Dorset to Elmers End for a diff replacement (who remembers Exchange and Mart?). Took a train to Addiscombe thinking it was Croyden. Well, was the walk worth it?.......
Now I can understand why LB&SCR had terriers named Fenchurch, Stepney.
You could have mentioned that the "Addiscombe" tramstop is actually in more or less in the same place as Bingham Road station on the Selsdon Road line. I might well have made use this route, for about a year I worked in the Tower Hill area and visited my sister who lives in between Woodside and Elmers End two evenings a week so Whitechapel to Elmers End or Woodside would have been a reasonable way of doing this
The tracks are still down at Spenser Road Halt, including the footbridge. The bridge is still maintained by Network Rail strangely.
As I’m from Ladywell it’s great seeing its station in one of your videos.
When I lived in Lee I once caught a train from Bromley to Stafford direct. I think it started at Folkestone or Dover.
I remember as a small boy living in Deptford in the 70s seeing the East London line trains serving New Cross and New Cross Gate - I couldn't work out how they managed to escape the tunnels.
Yes, I remember Addiscombe - the name: because one afternoon of heat the express-train drew up unwontedly. It was late June. And I remember the East London line too, because 25 years ago I, too, was quite short and didn't go into central London x
Yes please! This is a good series idea. I liked the walk about.
LeviNZ presents his compliments and appreciates the clarity of the video...one can almost smell the rainy ground.
Deptford was whence my very working class forebears sailed around mid November 1858 on the "Strathallan", the whole voyage taking around 90 days with the ship dropping anchor off the new settlement of Timaru in late Feb 1859.
my old area ladywell,where the ladys got water from the well,and where years ago when it rained, ladywell flooded,and my old aurts house used to flood,
Interesting video but the clip around where the old Shoreditch station was an eye opener for sure. I walked around that way many times in the 70s and 80s as i lived only ten minutes away. The change...... And not for the better.
As an Old Croydonian who grew up around Addiscombe and Elmers End I find these fascinating.
Really interesting video, and hopefully the start of a really interesting series!
Always fun to see you in and around Croydon; seeing if I can see myself in the background somewhere.
At any rate, I’d absolutely use this service if it still existed. For one thing it’d make getting to Stansted a damned sight easier, just jump on a train at Addiscombe, change to the Stansted Express at Liverpool St, and Bob’s someone’s uncle.
8:08"blackhorse road" that's a nice clip of a 2009 stock my favorite train
I did a double take at that point too. Who knew there was a Blackhorse Lane as well as a Blackhorse Road?
When I used to live in Romford, I would commute from Liverpool Street and was always fascinated by being able to see the old Shoreditch station as the train pulled out. I think it was one of the first times I looked at something like that and thought "Hmm... I guess these used to be connected!"
You can easily get from Addiscombe to Liverpool Street in under an hour - bus/tram to East Croydon, Thameslink train to Blackfriars, Circle Line to Liverpool Street. With frequent services on all legs of the journey, that's more convenient than an hourly direct train that takes just as long.
In 1979, I worked for a while, on a building site in Brick Lane and, living at East Ham, used to travel to and from work on the Underground changing at Whitechapel and using the East London line to Shoreditch which at the time was only open Monday to Friday rush hours; perfect for me. Sad to see the station building looking as it does now. In 1989, now living in Canning Town, I bought a guitar in Croydon and to get home, walked to Addiscombe; still a rather charming little terminus station in the 'burbs. Changing at NCG, I travelled from there to Whitechapel, so I too have done almost the entire route incrementally.
Wasn't Shoreditch also open Sunday mornings for the market? (Petticoat lane?)
@@cigmorfil4101 Could well be. I only remember it as being some kind of restricted service for sure; other details I've forgotten over the years as it was a very long time ago.
Great video Jago, amazing to think what kind of services would of now existed if this route wasn't abondoned. One adondoned route that is interesting is the St. Pancras to Tilbury Boat trains route via Suffragette (aka GOBLIN) line and Kentish Town. I believe the service ended around 1966.
There's a map of the old London, Brighton and South Coast Railway networks on the wall at Victoria (it's in one of the exits that are straight ahead as you leave the Brighton side; pretty sure it's the one on the left) and it shows the ELR route between New Cross Gate and Liverpool Street as part of its network. Shoreditch station was clearly visible from any suburban train leaving Liverpool Street on the Romford line until it closed.
I had a letter printed in the Croydon Advertiser when I lived in Croydon suggesting it be reincorporated into the main line network to facilitate south-north journeys. Of course, that didn't happen. I was in a boarding school in Ipswich in the early 90s and a direct link from Croydon to Liverpool Street would have made the journey a bit simpler, although I enjoyed the walk from London Bridge to Liverpool Street.
Simce the mid 1920s, Hove Station jas featured part of Victoria's redundant* porte-cochère covering the area due south of the main building. The pre-grouping identity remains strong at both Hove and Brighton stations.
* pre-Southern Railway's knocking the old LBSC & LCDR stations into one, 1923-25.
Yes I think a direct service from Liverpool Street to Addiscombe would be very popular, at least for Jago's subscribers if not anyone else. 😄
Fascinating subject. I sometimes wish that the London Crosslink still existed for a cross capital connection.
One is when SW Rail runs from Wimbledon to Waterloo via the district line/Wandsworth another is the Old Primrose Hill Station in between Camden Road and South Hampstead stations
I only have a casual interest in UK railway history (strangely, for a Mancunian, I have a particular fascination for the Southern Railway!) but I enjoy your videos for the light hearted scripts and excellent narration.🙂
Thankyou Jago. Brilliant!
Thank you. Two words, not one.
Despite living on the Mid-Kent Line, and having worked in the City in the past, I don't think I'd take this service if it still existed. Mostly because it ended six years before my local station, Clock House, opened. I'd just be standing on a platform watching the train trundle past!
I could walk to New Beckenham or Elmers End, but at that point I may as well just go to London Bridge on the Mid Kent Line and take the tube...
It's an interesting historical artefact,and I suspect that most of the ticket takings were probably from New Beckenham from City Gents commuting.
I'm a big fan of "If you build it they will come", but I do wonder if there are already enough connections along the route that people would be happy to take other routes - especially as the tunnel was evidently popular and would probably present a bottleneck that limits service frequency.
While used mainly by goods/parcels trains, the Liv. Street-Shoreditch link (Bishopsgate Jcn.) was used by holiday/excursion trains from the LNER area to the Southern, trains reversed in Liv. St.
Looking forward to this new series. I always enjoy your videos every evening!
I remember a service in British Rail days that went from Millom to Cambridge
Fascinating. I used to live in Addiscombe and would sometimes take the train to London from Addiscombe station just for a bit of fun - it being a lot quicker to walk up to East Croydon station.
Yes, you are correct, the site of the line to Addiscombe is now called the Linear Park.
You asked if such a route would be any use today? Probably not with the fast East Croydon to London service as well as the WIndrush line.
Any videos on the railways in Deptford would be appreciated by me , my Father's family came from there and all his generation are gone now so any historical background information is enjoyed .
Well done on the new series! It sounds fun!
Keep 'em coming, please.
Yes please on a video about Deptford Bridge DLR!
Stratford - Staines - Basingstoke; from Colchester in the early noughties. Also, Colchester via North London loop to Manchester back in the mid-80s?
This is a fresh new angle for the channel Mr. H, really enjoyable. I genuinely hope we get a walk-the-old-route option on the leading train sim pc games someday haha
8:07 - I had a mild shock moment when you said, "...we'll be taking the tram to Blackhorse Road." Maybe one day.
Living in Bolton Lancashire I don't think that I would use the service.🤭
Ooo this is an interesting series idea, plenty of possible routes to cover like the old North London Line services through Primrose Hill to Watford or Metropolitan all the way to Verney Junction (good luck with that if you do it...)
I'd always been fascinated in the idea of trying similar with old Roman Roads and buses, like see how much of Watling Street I could cover from London by bus etc
Nice idea for a series, keep them coming!
Two points:
(1) If you want to use that Readly link, disable your ad-blocker first. Mine treats the whole Readly website as one huge advertisement.
(2) It would have been very useful to show a map (not a diagram) of the area from Liverpool Street to Addiscombe, and overlay on that map two distinctively coloured lines. One would depict the original route, the other the convoluted journey you had to take. If, as you mentioned, this is intended to be the first in an occasional series, perhaps you could do this in future episodes.
I would absolutely use that service, since I live near one station and work near another. At the moment (if I'm not cycling) it takes a 10 min train + a 20 minute walk, which is fine when it's not raining!
I wouldn't know about its potential but I'd use it for the scenery, it's why I like those track walks where it's all naturey. 'Stuck in time' areas are good too📷
I found this format intriguing Jago. A hybrid of travel video, survivor and history lesson. Way cool. Thanks.
Brilliant!👏
I was on the last train from West Ealing to West Ruislip.
There once was a broad gauge train from London Victoria Station to somewhere on the GWR . That would be neat to do .
Jago series, can't wait
We have ended up with Nick Bradley crossed with Geoff Marshall.
Nick Badley*
I don't understand why Liverpool Street to Shoreditch High St is not an 'out of station interchange' - but in any case it's only ten minutes or so to walk. Overground from there to Croydon is about 40 minutes - so with a tram or bus to Addiscombe, that makes it over an hour. Slightly faster - as it should be - is the Elizabeth line to Farringdon, then Thameslink to Croydon - still, to Addiscombe you'd be lucky to beat the Victorian direct train's 52 minutes!
Yes please - more 'lost trains'.
Addiscombe station was not in Addiscombe - Bingham Road was more centrally located in Addiscombe. Addiscombe was called Addiscombe Road but it wasn't on Addiscombe Road - it was on Lower Addiscombe Road. Used to get the train home to Addiscombe occasionally when I lived there - just for a change from the fast trains to East Croydon.. Got to ride in the cab once too..
I have this really weird memory of turning up to Liverpool Street late in the evening (usually on a Friday after a visit to the pub) and seeing a train with an unusual livery (i.e. not the usual First Great Anglia grey with blue and green stripes) waiting to depart to somewhere that I seem to think was not normally served from Liverpool Street. This would have been back in the early- to mid-2000s but for the life of me I can't remember the exact details - I'd love to know if this is actually a real memory and not a figment of my imagination.
I think trains that the trains that use Fenchurch Street are diverted into Liverpool Street when the track around fenchurch st is closed for maintenance.
Used to drive trains from nx down to elmers end then either down to hayes, or alternatively to woodside then addiscoombe.
One of my current objectives is to visit the site of Addiscombe Road, I’ve not quite managed it yet. I’m definitely going to make reference to this video .
I would consider the former timetabled journey 'Mansion House to Windsor'.
Harwich to Glasgow...
A very interesting theme!
Say Jago. Is there any chance you could look at the recent "Thamslink 2000" automation of the Thamslink core and compare it to the East London Line (Windrush Line) to see if you can figure out if it would be possible to "restore" the Liverpool Street to Addiscombe route and other lost routes, without impacting the current London Overground services.
I've often thought that, if Wapping Station and Rotherithe Station were rebuilt, the East London Line could be taking 8 car trains or even 12 car trains. We could get a lot more people through London, from North of London to South of London and "replicate" Thameslink's success. (The Same could also be done with the West London Line, if you have a list of the other routes that used to use that. Plus we could boost the North London Line and South London line to help other cross-London services get brought back.)
If you extend Rotherhithe station you will have practically joined it to Canada Water. Not that it would be a bad thing.
this line would have been really useful for me as i usually have to commute to whitechapel from bexleyheath. A service from lewisham would have been great
I'm here for this series!
+1 on a Deptford Bridge video. If you time it well enough, I may give you a wave from my balcony.
Readily might be useful, but we must lament the passing of the weekday Evening Standard
It's been the evening Metro for ages now.
Great idea: I think this will be a great series!
Great video as always
Tremendous premise - this is the opportunity for the long awaited Primrose Hill to Broad Street video. If I win the Euromillions, I swear I will commission you to do this!
What a sad state Shoreditch station building finds itself in. Shame that another use couldn't have been found for this historic structure.
There must be things to say about Deptford Bridge. What was there before? Blackheath Hill station is 2 bus stops away.
I'd like to suggest Lugate Hill to Wimbledon via Loughborough Junction and Clapham Junction - a route I would have used in former years
I could certainly see the Liverpool St.-Lewisham section being useful, especially if it were an Overground frequency service (ie a train every 10-15 minutes) as well as it being a broadly circular route avoiding much of Zone 1, and therefore fitting the ethos of the Overground.
I made a journey from London Bridge to Elmers End which is somewhat similar to your journey, just two days ago - Southern train bound for Caterham to East Croydon, then tram to Elmers End.
Seems like the fastest and easiest route these days would be Elizabeth Line to Farringdon, Thameslink to East Croydon and then a bus and a quick walk to get to Addiscombe Station Park (takes 53-59 minutes depending on when you go). Not that many people actually want to go there. If you want to get to East Croydon (which is where most people actually want to go), it's only 37 minutes. I'm not sure the old route could compete with that. If you need to get from South East London to Croydon you have at least 3 alternative options now, so there would be no point in reinstating the route.
Sometimes what survives and what doesn't is a quirk of fate. You can't get a direct train from Liverpool St to Addiscombe BUT you can get a direct train from Shoreditch High St to West Croydon on the Overground.
I have only done part of it - but will mention the walk along the Ravensbourne from Deptford Bridge Station.
I doubt I'd use it as I live in North Wales and I missed your connection comment I think, and anyway the trams don't come this way.😉
Have enjoyed your videos for some time, reminding of a rail system I formerly worked on. Now living in Perth WA, and would like see something on the line from London Bridge out to Forrest Hill / Sydenham way. Or what’s left of Crystal Palace (low level). Sorry to be long winded, keep your great work.
Few word’s missed, sorry for that.
How about an episode called "Lost trains: Gloucester to Hereford. One of the inter-city railway that Dr Beeching closed"? Nicer scenery, and nowhere near Croydon!
I’m sure there’s more complicated ways to get there as well
Now that would be a video 🤣
Well, I would have used the Addiscombe to Redhill service had it been built. I lived next to Addiscombe station and worked opposite Redhill Station.
I see that you had a nice stroll in the rain there.