I don't see any parallels with the A's former desire to move to Louisville and their current desire to move to Vegas. It's interesting history but that's all. Different times, different people. Finley wasn't looking to build something new in K.C. or apparently in Louisville. He just wanted a better lease. He was an owner that annoyed the other owners as he was always looking for ways to promote the game. Designated base runners, orange balls, etc. Way back in the early 80s I was working for a federal agency. Finley was requesting a ruling from the agency regarding one of his businesses, (not the A's). One day my phone rang and it was Finley. We chatted about what progress was being made about his business. I updated him and he was grateful. He then offered me a dozen orange baseballs to show his appreciation. I thanked him and said I would have to refuse the gift. I guess I was naive and thought it was always improper to accept a favor for doing my job. But Charlie O was quite a character.
Some of his ideas, or proposed innovations, like orange baseballs were kind of stupid and while he was sort of genius in that he helped build A's into the last pre-free agency Dynasty and drafted and brought in so many great, future HOFers, he didn't do himself any favors with his big mouth, arrogance at flouting the rules or using or viewing his players as disposable assets to be paid less-than-market value contracts with Catfish Hunter, Reggie Jackson, Vida Blue, Sal Bando and alienating the fans in Oakland by being an absentee owner working in Chicago and living on his farm in Indiana and coming across as flippant, coarse, Jerry Jones-esque styled elitist and a mean-spirited prick. He once punished one of his own players in the 1973 World Series for making a simple base-mechanic mistake and ordered his manager not to play him the next game @ NYM, MLB commissioner Bowie Kuhn ordered this ban reversed and Finley referred to Kuhn as a "village idiot". When the benched A's player went to bat first in New York a few nights later, the entire crowd at Shea Stadium gave him a standing ovation just as a fuck you to the A's arrogant prick of an owner. He was boastful, proud, vain, and massively egotistical but I think intrinsically, he was really just a small, scared man who knew and realized that MLB would soon be going through radical, structural changes and not the variety he liked or could control. Free agency was coming and he instantaneously knew he couldn't compete and keep all his treasured, but misused great team and the first shoe to drop was the Supreme Court's ruling that MLB's Reserve Clause was unconstitutional and illegal and by New Year's Day, Catfish Hunter was the first major A's player to take advantage of it and while Oakland did win another AL West title in 1975, without that sharp, reliable 20-game winning starting pitcher in Catfish and Reggie being shipped off to Baltimore midway through the 1975 season, the A's were easily beaten by a resurgent, surprising Boston Red Sox team and while they came close to winning the AL West in 1976, that would be the last hurrah for Finley's A's great dynasty teams of the early-to-mid 70's. Finley himself, arguably was partly responsible for those A's teams not staying together longer and falling out due to ego conflicts, power-mad decisions, and his own huge, big mouth. He could never learn how to just stay out of the way in a vein similar to how later Bulls GM Jerry Krause refused or couldn't do with all the success the 90's Bulls had and his primary, divisive role in deciding to break up the legendary cast of future NBA HOFers.
I agree. Finley was did not want to move to Kentucky. Finley had heard about the $1.00 annual lease to the Chiefs. Finley expected the same deal. Finley threatened to move hoping to receive the same deal. I know this well, since my father, Carl Finley, would live wherever the team was based. Dad did not want to live in KY. This was a bluff by Charlie.
I hate seeing John Fisher’s face I hope I never see that man in person ! I got some words for him ! Give him that East Oakland energy bet not catch him
Pretty interesting history. Finley was self made, and a much sharper businessman than the present owner. He built a team that won 3 straight Series. No mean feat.
And they won those 3 straight when there were some incredible teams in the league. Tigers,Reds, Red Sox, Pirates, Orioles, Mets. Also interesting that the A's home attendance those 3 years was in the bottom half of the league, only breaking 1m in '73. 3rd least home attendance in 1974, only more than Twins and Giants.
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Hearing "I wish them every success" from Cincinnati definitely constitutes a kiss of Judas... 🤣 ...Those very Reds were why Baseball refused to allow a franchise in Louisville - and will continue to do so. It would be a virtually overlapping market for a region with half the population of Chicago, with minimal growth prospects...Yeah, Charlie O was a character. Between him and Al Davis, Oakland has had two of the most cantankerous owners in pro sports history - yet both left their own indelible stamps on their respective sports...A big difference in the Kentucky vs. Vegas stories is that MLB and Finley were in a proverbial bar fight in 1963 and '64. Present-day, MLB is coddling their beloved frat boy failure John Fisher, blowing kisses at everything he wants to do - sane or not - at the same time flipping Oakland the bird. The A's have always been a bit of a free radical in baseball, even in their days in Philadelphia, with sputters and spurts of success along the way. But at the moment, unless the A's receive an ownership transfusion - and fast - the A's will be the first failed baseball franchise since the Newark Peppers of the Federal League in 1915. They won't succeed anywhere with current ownership, and if Fisher manages to strap the team into a warehouse behind the Tropicana, neither will any future management...Yeah, Manfraud. Hang that one on your mantle...(How ironic that the owner of the Senators was waxing ethical about Finley's treatment of Kansas City. They packed a moving van for Dallas in 1971.)
I think the Cincinnati region has better than minimal growth prospects with low cost of living and great water resources. Chicago has a lot of things going against it
@@cumulus1234JSYK, my statement wasn't meant as a putdown of Cincy, Looah, or the region, just a recognition that, one, it doesn't have Sunbelt growth prospects, and two, that whole Ohio River Valley is seen as one conurbation area. If they wouldn't consider putting a team in Columbus because of proximity to Cleveland and Cincinnati, they surely won't put one in Northern Kentucky - where the Cincinnati airport is...
MLB in Louisville isn't crazy; there was a National League team there until the NL contracted after the 1899 season (contracting out Louisville, Cleveland, Baltimore, and Washington). Today I'd expect that if a major league tried Louisville, it would be the NBA -- Louisville shares with their Indiana neighbors a fervor for basketball, and there's already an arena downtown. I've never been inside but I've driven past; from the outside it looks good-sized.
Since all this happened when I was an exceptionally well-read 8th grader growing up In Louisville, KY, I am amazed that this is the first time that I have ever heard of any of this. Nevertheless, I am quite familiar with each and every Kentuckian named in these newspaper articles, and I also have personal experience with Fairgrounds Stadium before, during, and after this time. From listening very carefully to every word that you said and reading every word that was written, I conclude that there are absolutely ZERO similarities between Louisville and Las Vegas. There is one HUGE similarity with how the AL and the MLB have persecuted the A's over the past 70 years. The AL screwed over the A's then. The MLB is screwing over the A's now. And both the AL and MLB have screwed over the A's at every single opportunity and every single way that they could for the past 70+ years. The AL and MLB owners are a travesty. Each and every owner should be sued in their individual capacities for what they have done over the past 70 years, and if the bankruptcy laws say that they should be allowed to keep the shirts that they are wearing, then that will have to pass for justice. This travesty sickens me.
There are some key differences between the proposed Louisville move and this one. First, and by far the most important, is that by the time he asked to move the team to Louisville? The other owners of American League teams hated Charlie Finley with the passion of 1,000 white hot suns. That's not the case with Fisher. Second, Missouri Senator Stuart Symington wasn't at that meeting by happenstance - as soon as he caught wind of Finley's desire to move the A's out of Kansas City (well before the Louisville move was discussed), Symington quietly leaned on Major League Baseball, with veiled threats about revoking its anti-trust exemption. And after the Louisville vote, and despite that deal's rejection, Symington then *not so quietly* leaned on Major League Baseball - and Symington was not a Senator you trifled with. MLB finally relented to Finley, but tried to placate Symington by guaranteeing that Kansas City would have an expansion franchise for the 1971 season. Symington said that wasn't good enough, and that he was planning to begin anti-trust hearings immediately if a better solution wasn't made, and made public. Within days? The American League suddenly was going to expand two years early, to Kansas City and... well, somewhere else. Stuart Symington was not only directly responsible for the Royals existence, but was indirectly responsible for (a) the Seattle Pilots enfranchisement in 1969, its subsequent debacle, and ultimately the existence of the Milwaukee Brewers, and (b) the National League's expansion into Montreal and San Diego, which was done as a reaction to the American League's intent to expand. Kansas City was the only of the four markets that didn't struggle, mightily, out of the gate; all four were hastily put together - Montreal had an unsuitable stadium for years, San Diego's ownership had Walter O'Malley's blessing but not two nickels to rub together until Ray Kroc bought the team, and the Seattle Pilots were... well... the Seattle Pilots.
MLB moving an expansion team into Montreal in 1969 did make a lot of sense from the standpoint that for nearly 40-50 years, the city, both English and French-speaking Canadians, or Quebecois had a large, grass roots support of several minor-league baseball teams which had players, like Jackie Robinson, who went on to break MLB's color barrier and massively re-shape the game from a sociocultural perspective. Also, even though Montreal and rest of Quebec were having a rash of French-Canadian nationalism and (occasional terrorist attacks from far-left Quebec seperatists FLQ), the city and region were long past ready to embrace and love an MLB team, even if they knew they'd struggle mightily in the first few years. In Montreal, fan support was overwhelmingly positive from very beginning and even though the Pilots experiment failed after one year, the city of Seattle and Green River county both sued MLB to eventually get a new, expansion MLB team, which they also shared with the new-expansion NFL team, Seahawks in the Kingdome.
Interesting parallel #2 - Allyn and Daley were looking to get out of their situations. Allyn eventually would sell to his brother in 1970. Daley sold the Indians in 1962 - and got roped into bankrolling a certain team in the Pacifc Northwest until finally telling Dewey Soriano "No, let Bud Selig buy the team and move them to Milwaukee."
THIRD parallel - Symington brought anti-trust hearings against MLB if the AL didn't give KC a team once Finley left for Oakland. That resulted in the Royals joining the majors two years before the Pilots franchise was ready.
Ah yes 1960’s Louisville, Kentucky and 2020’s Las Vegas, Nevada. They really are like identical twins they are SO similar! Nothing difference between those two cities and time eras at all! I’m sure MLB owners will think of Las Vegas right now in 2023 just like previous owners thought of Louisville, Kentucky in the sixties, I mean they really they just so similar how could they not!! Love you Brodie, but come on man they are apples and oranges imo. I just don’t see “all the parallels” you seem to see.
@@brodiebrazil Are you saying the owners hate for Fisher and Finley are the parallels? If that’s the case I agree (on that one parallel, still not really seeing “all the parallels” but I digress), I mean they obviously loathed Finley back then and I think they mostly hate Fisher now. But still, I think it was a double whammy for Finley. They hated him and they thought northern Kentucky (Louisville) was a stupid idea. They may hate Fisher but I’m pretty sure the owners mostly love the idea of Vegas.
I don't see any parallels with the A's former desire to move to Louisville and their current desire to move to Vegas. It's interesting history but that's all. Different times, different people. Finley wasn't looking to build something new in K.C. or apparently in Louisville. He just wanted a better lease. He was an owner that annoyed the other owners as he was always looking for ways to promote the game. Designated base runners, orange balls, etc. Way back in the early 80s I was working for a federal agency. Finley was requesting a ruling from the agency regarding one of his businesses, (not the A's). One day my phone rang and it was Finley. We chatted about what progress was being made about his business. I updated him and he was grateful. He then offered me a dozen orange baseballs to show his appreciation. I thanked him and said I would have to refuse the gift. I guess I was naive and thought it was always improper to accept a favor for doing my job. But Charlie O was quite a character.
Some of his ideas, or proposed innovations, like orange baseballs were kind of stupid and while he was sort of genius in that he helped build A's into the last pre-free agency Dynasty and drafted and brought in so many great, future HOFers, he didn't do himself any favors with his big mouth, arrogance at flouting the rules or using or viewing his players as disposable assets to be paid less-than-market value contracts with Catfish Hunter, Reggie Jackson, Vida Blue, Sal Bando and alienating the fans in Oakland by being an absentee owner working in Chicago and living on his farm in Indiana and coming across as flippant, coarse, Jerry Jones-esque styled elitist and a mean-spirited prick. He once punished one of his own players in the 1973 World Series for making a simple base-mechanic mistake and ordered his manager not to play him the next game @ NYM, MLB commissioner Bowie Kuhn ordered this ban reversed and Finley referred to Kuhn as a "village idiot". When the benched A's player went to bat first in New York a few nights later, the entire crowd at Shea Stadium gave him a standing ovation just as a fuck you to the A's arrogant prick of an owner.
He was boastful, proud, vain, and massively egotistical but I think intrinsically, he was really just a small, scared man who knew and realized that MLB would soon be going through radical, structural changes and not the variety he liked or could control. Free agency was coming and he instantaneously knew he couldn't compete and keep all his treasured, but misused great team and the first shoe to drop was the Supreme Court's ruling that MLB's Reserve Clause was unconstitutional and illegal and by New Year's Day, Catfish Hunter was the first major A's player to take advantage of it and while Oakland did win another AL West title in 1975, without that sharp, reliable 20-game winning starting pitcher in Catfish and Reggie being shipped off to Baltimore midway through the 1975 season, the A's were easily beaten by a resurgent, surprising Boston Red Sox team and while they came close to winning the AL West in 1976, that would be the last hurrah for Finley's A's great dynasty teams of the early-to-mid 70's.
Finley himself, arguably was partly responsible for those A's teams not staying together longer and falling out due to ego conflicts, power-mad decisions, and his own huge, big mouth. He could never learn how to just stay out of the way in a vein similar to how later Bulls GM Jerry Krause refused or couldn't do with all the success the 90's Bulls had and his primary, divisive role in deciding to break up the legendary cast of future NBA HOFers.
I agree. Finley was did not want to move to Kentucky. Finley had heard about the $1.00 annual lease to the Chiefs. Finley expected the same deal. Finley threatened to move hoping to receive the same deal. I know this well, since my father, Carl Finley, would live wherever the team was based. Dad did not want to live in KY. This was a bluff by Charlie.
Appreciate all your work Brodie! Top notch reporting. If the A's do end up staying in Oakland, a lot of the credit should go to you. Cheers
A+ research, Brodie. This is a story I had no idea of.
Brodie this is almost the same moves when SF Giants were going to move to Toronto in the early 70’s
I hate seeing John Fisher’s face I hope I never see that man in person ! I got some words for him ! Give him that East Oakland energy bet not catch him
0:02) In South America the country is Brasil. The team emblem looks more like an "Walking A" brand.
The common theme! Terrible owners
Pretty interesting history. Finley was self made, and a much sharper businessman than the present owner. He built a team that won 3 straight Series. No mean feat.
Finely almost turned it over again when he brought in BillyBall before the Haas family bought the team.
Thank you.
And they won those 3 straight when there were some incredible teams in the league. Tigers,Reds, Red Sox, Pirates, Orioles, Mets.
Also interesting that the A's home attendance those 3 years was in the bottom half of the league, only breaking 1m in '73. 3rd least home attendance in 1974, only more than Twins and Giants.
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Interesting! I have a book about the Swingin A's but it just briefly discussed this issue./ `Thanks for filling in the rest
My book is titled: FINLEY BALL. I wrote my book because so many others have partial facts or just theories.
I'm afraid the current MLB owners see Las Vegas as the new "bright and shiny" and may not check the details, unfortunately.
Sad but true
Hearing "I wish them every success" from Cincinnati definitely constitutes a kiss of Judas... 🤣 ...Those very Reds were why Baseball refused to allow a franchise in Louisville - and will continue to do so. It would be a virtually overlapping market for a region with half the population of Chicago, with minimal growth prospects...Yeah, Charlie O was a character. Between him and Al Davis, Oakland has had two of the most cantankerous owners in pro sports history - yet both left their own indelible stamps on their respective sports...A big difference in the Kentucky vs. Vegas stories is that MLB and Finley were in a proverbial bar fight in 1963 and '64. Present-day, MLB is coddling their beloved frat boy failure John Fisher, blowing kisses at everything he wants to do - sane or not - at the same time flipping Oakland the bird. The A's have always been a bit of a free radical in baseball, even in their days in Philadelphia, with sputters and spurts of success along the way. But at the moment, unless the A's receive an ownership transfusion - and fast - the A's will be the first failed baseball franchise since the Newark Peppers of the Federal League in 1915. They won't succeed anywhere with current ownership, and if Fisher manages to strap the team into a warehouse behind the Tropicana, neither will any future management...Yeah, Manfraud. Hang that one on your mantle...(How ironic that the owner of the Senators was waxing ethical about Finley's treatment of Kansas City. They packed a moving van for Dallas in 1971.)
I think the Cincinnati region has better than minimal growth prospects with low cost of living and great water resources. Chicago has a lot of things going against it
@@cumulus1234JSYK, my statement wasn't meant as a putdown of Cincy, Looah, or the region, just a recognition that, one, it doesn't have Sunbelt growth prospects, and two, that whole Ohio River Valley is seen as one conurbation area. If they wouldn't consider putting a team in Columbus because of proximity to Cleveland and Cincinnati, they surely won't put one in Northern Kentucky - where the Cincinnati airport is...
Huge difference... Those owners were against move... These owners appear to support it...
actually the bigger difference is that it was discussed so publicly back then... zero quotes or comments either way about a similar scenario in 2023.
Fisher has an obligation to the people of Oakland to make it good. That White Sox owner had it right.
A missed opportunity for the A's to rebrand themselves as the Louisville Sluggers!!!
Funny that the Senators owner said that lmao.
MLB in Louisville isn't crazy; there was a National League team there until the NL contracted after the 1899 season (contracting out Louisville, Cleveland, Baltimore, and Washington). Today I'd expect that if a major league tried Louisville, it would be the NBA -- Louisville shares with their Indiana neighbors a fervor for basketball, and there's already an arena downtown. I've never been inside but I've driven past; from the outside it looks good-sized.
Since all this happened when I was an exceptionally well-read 8th grader growing up In Louisville, KY, I am amazed that this is the first time that I have ever heard of any of this. Nevertheless, I am quite familiar with each and every Kentuckian named in these newspaper articles, and I also have personal experience with Fairgrounds Stadium before, during, and after this time. From listening very carefully to every word that you said and reading every word that was written, I conclude that there are absolutely ZERO similarities between Louisville and Las Vegas.
There is one HUGE similarity with how the AL and the MLB have persecuted the A's over the past 70 years. The AL screwed over the A's then. The MLB is screwing over the A's now. And both the AL and MLB have screwed over the A's at every single opportunity and every single way that they could for the past 70+ years. The AL and MLB owners are a travesty. Each and every owner should be sued in their individual capacities for what they have done over the past 70 years, and if the bankruptcy laws say that they should be allowed to keep the shirts that they are wearing, then that will have to pass for justice. This travesty sickens me.
There are some key differences between the proposed Louisville move and this one. First, and by far the most important, is that by the time he asked to move the team to Louisville? The other owners of American League teams hated Charlie Finley with the passion of 1,000 white hot suns. That's not the case with Fisher. Second, Missouri Senator Stuart Symington wasn't at that meeting by happenstance - as soon as he caught wind of Finley's desire to move the A's out of Kansas City (well before the Louisville move was discussed), Symington quietly leaned on Major League Baseball, with veiled threats about revoking its anti-trust exemption. And after the Louisville vote, and despite that deal's rejection, Symington then *not so quietly* leaned on Major League Baseball - and Symington was not a Senator you trifled with. MLB finally relented to Finley, but tried to placate Symington by guaranteeing that Kansas City would have an expansion franchise for the 1971 season. Symington said that wasn't good enough, and that he was planning to begin anti-trust hearings immediately if a better solution wasn't made, and made public. Within days? The American League suddenly was going to expand two years early, to Kansas City and... well, somewhere else. Stuart Symington was not only directly responsible for the Royals existence, but was indirectly responsible for (a) the Seattle Pilots enfranchisement in 1969, its subsequent debacle, and ultimately the existence of the Milwaukee Brewers, and (b) the National League's expansion into Montreal and San Diego, which was done as a reaction to the American League's intent to expand. Kansas City was the only of the four markets that didn't struggle, mightily, out of the gate; all four were hastily put together - Montreal had an unsuitable stadium for years, San Diego's ownership had Walter O'Malley's blessing but not two nickels to rub together until Ray Kroc bought the team, and the Seattle Pilots were... well... the Seattle Pilots.
MLB moving an expansion team into Montreal in 1969 did make a lot of sense from the standpoint that for nearly 40-50 years, the city, both English and French-speaking Canadians, or Quebecois had a large, grass roots support of several minor-league baseball teams which had players, like Jackie Robinson, who went on to break MLB's color barrier and massively re-shape the game from a sociocultural perspective. Also, even though Montreal and rest of Quebec were having a rash of French-Canadian nationalism and (occasional terrorist attacks from far-left Quebec seperatists FLQ), the city and region were long past ready to embrace and love an MLB team, even if they knew they'd struggle mightily in the first few years. In Montreal, fan support was overwhelmingly positive from very beginning and even though the Pilots experiment failed after one year, the city of Seattle and Green River county both sued MLB to eventually get a new, expansion MLB team, which they also shared with the new-expansion NFL team, Seahawks in the Kingdome.
Yes, I remember the whole thing
FYI, then American League President Joe Cronin is a graduate of Sacred Heart High School in San Francisco.
wow, small world
And the Denver A’s in 1978.
Except this time baseball wants to see the A's move
The big difference? The owners back then HATED Finley.
Interesting parallel #2 - Allyn and Daley were looking to get out of their situations. Allyn eventually would sell to his brother in 1970. Daley sold the Indians in 1962 - and got roped into bankrolling a certain team in the Pacifc Northwest until finally telling Dewey Soriano "No, let Bud Selig buy the team and move them to Milwaukee."
THIRD parallel - Symington brought anti-trust hearings against MLB if the AL didn't give KC a team once Finley left for Oakland. That resulted in the Royals joining the majors two years before the Pilots franchise was ready.
The A's have moved and threatened to move more times than any franchise in MLB history. This franchise has a very nomadic history
Ah yes 1960’s Louisville, Kentucky and 2020’s Las Vegas, Nevada. They really are like identical twins they are SO similar! Nothing difference between those two cities and time eras at all! I’m sure MLB owners will think of Las Vegas right now in 2023 just like previous owners thought of Louisville, Kentucky in the sixties, I mean they really they just so similar how could they not!! Love you Brodie, but come on man they are apples and oranges imo. I just don’t see “all the parallels” you seem to see.
the cities... aren't the parallels.
@@brodiebrazil Are you saying the owners hate for Fisher and Finley are the parallels? If that’s the case I agree (on that one parallel, still not really seeing “all the parallels” but I digress), I mean they obviously loathed Finley back then and I think they mostly hate Fisher now. But still, I think it was a double whammy for Finley. They hated him and they thought northern Kentucky (Louisville) was a stupid idea. They may hate Fisher but I’m pretty sure the owners mostly love the idea of Vegas.
Imagine Kentucky having a professional sports team. 😂
Living here is such a wasteland for pro sports.
The More Things Change......😂😂😂
I have followed the A's since the 1967 season. I cannot see many similarities between the current (2023) situation and the circumstances in 1967.
Using public money to relocate a team.
Coincidence? I think not!
😂🎉😢😮😅😊❤