For sisters, you could have chosen Novitiates. Still trained, but not in power armor. Hits on 4s, 4+ save, T3 , and 1 wound a pop and they are 85 points. Arcos do win lore wise, but right now they are much more valuable than Repentia and novitiates in game.
I'm just pinning this one because it seems to be the popular comment of the Novitiates bunch. I'm gonna be real with you, I forgot them entirely while doing the final picks. They absolutely were the pick. Solid A/A-
@@thepoorhammerpodcasti’ll actually come to Brad’s defense here. Although Novitiates is the correct choice in the tabletop, lore wise Arco-Flagellants still take the win. They are heretics whose fate is an act of punishment, so not only are they expendable, it is a genuine benefit for the Sisters that they perish in combat. Great episode regardless!
Gretchin got robbed. They're A+ material. This is that situation where the teacher got stuck in a rut looking at other assignments, and forgot it was the "Cannon Fodder" episode, not the "Guardsmen Equivalent" episode.
I actually give my Tzaangors the chainsword and pistol option only because I think it actually looks cooler and helps distinguish them a bit from my daemons.
Its kind of part of the appeal with guard for me, when my lil fodder do well it feels very heroic and I dont really care if they die cause I can bring them back with a strat
Imperial Guard is gigachad because your opponent has fun getting to kill tons of units and I get to enact my sci fi fantasy of commandeering hopeless hordes of soldiers to meet their demise against deadly xenos. Bonus points for being the one army that gives everyone a true sense of how terrible it is living in the 40k universe.
33:24 actually that’s not true good sir! The LOV are a fairly large size, GW has directly stated that there much larger than current lore Tau (keep in mind they’ve grown a lot in lore since release). And the hearthkin in particular aren’t even full time soldiers, and are more like a militia, meaning there pretty expendable.
It would be interesting if you kept track of the grades you give each faction and then present their "report card" at the end of the episode to see which is the best at satisfying all these criteria.
A good analogy for the gretchin: You were asked how many planets are in the solar system, and instead of just answering correctly you went out and found a new planet to make sure the rest of the class was wrong.
The basic Guardsman are actually a pretty efficient datasheet. 10 Guardsmen trade relatively well with similar units (Gaunts, guardians etc) . With orders they are very versatile, with a wide breadth of utility.
Guard infantry actually are very good in game with their born soldier ability auto wounding on 6s. In a 2K point game you can bring 330 guardsman, and most 2k lists you fight, physically won’t have enough shots to even kill half your models in 5 turns. Then they have crazy good OC, and then 300 rapid fire lasgun shots and a handful of special weapons actually had an insanely consistent high damage output
Jackals are also the only World Eater’s unit that can have two Marks of Khorne, meaning you can just plant a 20 man squad on your home objective and get two free blessings dice reroll
I would argue that the main quality of cannon fodder is the ability to draw enemy fire that the enemy would arguably be wiser directing elsewhere. Which would make my suggestion for Space Marine cannon fodder the Rhino.
3:35 thank you, i was taking my time to get into the Cadia lore, i saw some books and all, but well, now i know that it was a terrible idea to begin with. dodged
I was chuckling to myself wondering what you’d have to say for Custodes after I started the video. What can be considered cannon-fodder in the faction with the strongest “basic line troops” in the entire setting, especially lore-wise, where a single Custodian takes thousands of man-hours of genetic engineering and training to produce. They’re the exact opposite of “cheap & easily replaceable.” 😆
Y'know, thinking about it. What did the black crusade so far *really* Do to cadia? They blew up the homeworld sure, but last I checked, they had colonized *the entire system.* You might have blown up one factory, but there's like, 5 more in the same area you didn't touch.
I brought a list of tanks, infantry, artillery, and even a Valkyrie to a 2k game and had a sacrificial squad run up to draw the enemy out and somehow the sergeant from that squad was still there turn 3 being a massive pain for my enemy, who missed every shot during the shooting when targeting her and the non infantry hardly did anything
Null and blank are both accurate! Sisters get called 'Null maidens' quite a bit, and Blank is a very common term. Also applicable is pariah, as psychic blanks are spurned by the rest of society - they just feel bad to be around.
I jumped around a lot to check out specific armies so I might have missed it, but was Leader options at all a consideration in how good any army's chaff is? Because I feel like, at least for DG Poxwalkers, they are a lot better when you consider them as basically just 50pts for an extra 10 wounds on Typhus. I also question how important just, physically occupying space was. I don't mean in the sitting on the objective, but physically blocking your opponent from either reaching an objective or coming in from reserves. It's more difficult now but not impossible, especially with some of the cheaper ppm units. It's certainly an army specific consideration - obviously the more jumpy armies would feel the impact of this more - but a fair one to consider.
Grey Knights should probably include inquisitors and henchmen in their armies again just for more diverse units and better cannon fodder like when it was Codex: Daemonhunters
In most lore where they go into details about it a blank is just someone with little to no presence in the warp. Tau are almost all blanks. They neither suppress or enhance the warp by existing, in the same way as a rock, or a cloud. A null is someone with an anti-psychic presence, whose existence imposes 'normalcy' on the universe around them. Nulls are very strong blanks.
Pink horrors should have been A+, and it was touched on, but once you do the math, its so much greater. 10 pink models = 10 wounds Split to 2 blues = +20 wounds, 30 wounds total. Blues to brimstone = +10 wounds, 40 wounds total. Add in the faction D3 respawning for the Pinks, = near infinite wounds = infinite bodies = infinite fodder. Obviously splitting isnt garenteed, but its not an absolute like every other faction (minus guard's "reinforcement" strategem reviving whole units)
I do think Poxwalkers deserve better than a B despite the lack of gun, because with Guardsman you have to train them to an extent which makes them have some effort to make more of. Poxwalkers literally make more of themselves out of their enemies (or the random passerby's). A guardsman is handed the helmet and gun of the guy that died in front of him, Poxwalkers *are* the guy the died in from of him
I’m listening to fall of cadia right now, it’s absolutely fantastic. I don’t want to spoil, but if you’re expecting space marines to be idiots, you won’t be disappointed.
Aw, you didn't split daemons into 4 parts this time :( Thought I'd get to hear you talk about plaguebearers, since sitting on objectives and eating bolter rounds is pretty well all they do!
For Tau I would argue that the correct answer might be Tactical Drones, at least from a lore point. Tau are not happy to throw soldiers in the meat grinder, even the non-Tau species. That's why they rely so heavily are Drones. That's what the Tau really see as expendable. Even still, they aren't that good as far as "cannon fodder",. at least in 10th, due to their lack of OC.
I had a Spanish teacher that literally passed me with the lowest grade. She told me she never graded anything I turned in she just never wanted to have me again
To be fair to eldar guardians though, while the whole "every eldar life is precious for a dying race" is definitely an important factor, there's the other perspective of- the guardian's are not your full time military troopers. The full time standing army of the craftworld are the aspect warriors, who take even more time and effort to become what they are. Guardians are a militia army formed from the civilians of the craftworld. So technically the entire population above a certain age within the craftworld is eligible to be a guardian, even if their actual path might be a craftsman, an artist, a scholar etc. And from that perspective, raising a guardian army isn't that difficult (relative to their species, that is)
Saddly here I am with roughly 15 Tzangoors with pistol and chainsword. I Just started playing and didn't know better, I thought I had to give em 40k arsenal for Thousand sons xD
I’m late but I gotta put in a word of support for Jakhals. Cheapest we have bar spawn which don’t count. Melee is alright, they kill like two marines w/ the charge. Wouldn’t personally hold that against them, but I see merit in doing so. Great at holding points. They have sticky if it’s needed, and have icons to reward you w/ blessing rerolls if you use them forholding points. Native fnp, which can be bugged to a 5++ using blessings also lets them survive smalls arms fire being dumped into them just a little longer than similar units in other factions. Lore wise, they are still viewed as expendable, being used in the millions by some warbands like.
Neophyte Hybrids are even better, because you can get regenerating models for them! And if the unit gets wiped, they get to come back! They're just so cheap and utterly expendable.
Not that you care, but for once Brad is right either way, because technically both nulls and blanks would be correct terms, as would be pariahs but that just makes me really wish they'd bring back Necron Pariahs because those were cool as hell. Also specifically for Eric, failed space marines become, depending on the chapter, anything from servitors to the dude who writes the purity seals. Or they just get got.
Man if you think the way they've handled the end of the 13th Black Crusade is bad now you should see how it was before they retconed it where Chaos just "barely won". Hell even the Eldar were able to make some minor gains and take back some Crone Worlds in the original version of the campaign.
Every factions secret, cooler, second faction. Ei admech technically having cult mechanicus and skitarii Gene steelers having guard in them Tau having kroot
So im just getting into wh and was wondering about what would help my army. Started with the salamanders warforged strike force box and was hoping to hear where i should go from here. Its got 20 intercessors, 3 eradicators, 3 aggressors and adrax. Any help would be great
For sisters, you could have chosen Novitiates.
Still trained, but not in power armor.
Hits on 4s, 4+ save, T3 , and 1 wound a pop and they are 85 points.
Arcos do win lore wise, but right now they are much more valuable than Repentia and novitiates in game.
I'm just pinning this one because it seems to be the popular comment of the Novitiates bunch. I'm gonna be real with you, I forgot them entirely while doing the final picks. They absolutely were the pick.
Solid A/A-
That was my thoughts exactly
I'm glad someone said this before me lmao
Popped down here to say this lol.
@@thepoorhammerpodcasti’ll actually come to Brad’s defense here.
Although Novitiates is the correct choice in the tabletop, lore wise Arco-Flagellants still take the win. They are heretics whose fate is an act of punishment, so not only are they expendable, it is a genuine benefit for the Sisters that they perish in combat.
Great episode regardless!
I once again ask for every faction terminator
Please get this guy some likes, this needs to happen.
@@kraftyevanby the Emperor's will, let's make this happen
I second this
Yes please 🙏
Agreed.
Gretchin got robbed. They're A+ material. This is that situation where the teacher got stuck in a rut looking at other assignments, and forgot it was the "Cannon Fodder" episode, not the "Guardsmen Equivalent" episode.
WE WUZ ROBBED!
DAYZ RACIST TO DA BOYZ
WEZ SHHOUDLA BE S TIERS
If they were comparing to guardsmen, they should have done a squad of 10 boyz. What the hell
for real "orks option fits TOO well so we have to penalize?" come the fuck on.
32:07 a MIKEBURNFIRE AND ZACHAZARD REFERENCE
This was extremely unexpected, but welcome none the less
A suprise to be sure, but a welcome one
I want a collab between them somehow
@@amycox7508 have zach react to 40k guns with poorhammer explaining lore. I feel like Zach would have some things to say about a bolter
Mikeburnfire jumpscare!!
I actually give my Tzaangors the chainsword and pistol option only because I think it actually looks cooler and helps distinguish them a bit from my daemons.
Must suck to be the "poster child of cannon fodder"
Its kind of part of the appeal with guard for me, when my lil fodder do well it feels very heroic and I dont really care if they die cause I can bring them back with a strat
Imperial Guard is gigachad because your opponent has fun getting to kill tons of units and I get to enact my sci fi fantasy of commandeering hopeless hordes of soldiers to meet their demise against deadly xenos.
Bonus points for being the one army that gives everyone a true sense of how terrible it is living in the 40k universe.
You guys should do a “Book report” Episode where each Faction gives you their “Best” Book. Infinite and The Divine is the Benchmark to beat
1:50 krieg were cool when I was getting into guard, but if I see one more wehrboo fan or shovel meme I'm gonna eat a fucking krak grenade.
33:24 actually that’s not true good sir! The LOV are a fairly large size, GW has directly stated that there much larger than current lore Tau (keep in mind they’ve grown a lot in lore since release).
And the hearthkin in particular aren’t even full time soldiers, and are more like a militia, meaning there pretty expendable.
It would be interesting if you kept track of the grades you give each faction and then present their "report card" at the end of the episode to see which is the best at satisfying all these criteria.
A good analogy for the gretchin: You were asked how many planets are in the solar system, and instead of just answering correctly you went out and found a new planet to make sure the rest of the class was wrong.
Gretchin deserve the A+, they just did a bunch of extra work expecting extra credit.
"Its not the longest book I've ever wridden." Well, with that English I'm just happy you can read!
I love how Brad ignored all the pistol holsters on the Jakhals just so he could talk about "prison pockets." 😂😂
The basic Guardsman are actually a pretty efficient datasheet. 10 Guardsmen trade relatively well with similar units (Gaunts, guardians etc) . With orders they are very versatile, with a wide breadth of utility.
Guard infantry actually are very good in game with their born soldier ability auto wounding on 6s. In a 2K point game you can bring 330 guardsman, and most 2k lists you fight, physically won’t have enough shots to even kill half your models in 5 turns. Then they have crazy good OC, and then 300 rapid fire lasgun shots and a handful of special weapons actually had an insanely consistent high damage output
3:26 Brad go cry to your false gods #NewPlanetWhoDis
„Thirteen crusades made em rename the next street over.“
I mean… and tore the galaxy in half? 😅 kind of a big thing? 😅
A Lions shoutout? On a Poorhammer podcast? This is truly the greatest crossover of all time and warp.
Jackals are also the only World Eater’s unit that can have two Marks of Khorne, meaning you can just plant a 20 man squad on your home objective and get two free blessings dice reroll
Fall of Cadia is absolutely up the Robert Rath standard, the only gripe is about the narrator on Audible, but the book was still really damn good
Def. of cannonfodder is thay you throw them forward to chew enemy ammo. The flaggios seems very good for this ;)
Damn I came here for 40K not to be reminded of what happened to the lions this year.
I would argue that the main quality of cannon fodder is the ability to draw enemy fire that the enemy would arguably be wiser directing elsewhere.
Which would make my suggestion for Space Marine cannon fodder the Rhino.
Warboss: send the cannon fodder
*Boys load grenchins
My Black Templar Crusade squads are the gold standard for space marines.
3:35 thank you, i was taking my time to get into the Cadia lore, i saw some books and all, but well, now i know that it was a terrible idea to begin with. dodged
I was chuckling to myself wondering what you’d have to say for Custodes after I started the video. What can be considered cannon-fodder in the faction with the strongest “basic line troops” in the entire setting, especially lore-wise, where a single Custodian takes thousands of man-hours of genetic engineering and training to produce. They’re the exact opposite of “cheap & easily replaceable.” 😆
I feel like GSC should have gotten extra credit since half the army is cannon fodder.
Rate every faction's primaris lieutenant equivalent please.
Like the "every faction's Terminator" guy, I will just keep asking.
Y'know, thinking about it.
What did the black crusade so far *really* Do to cadia?
They blew up the homeworld sure, but last I checked, they had colonized *the entire system.*
You might have blown up one factory, but there's like, 5 more in the same area you didn't touch.
I was not expecting a Mikeburnfire reference in my 40K video.
I brought a list of tanks, infantry, artillery, and even a Valkyrie to a 2k game and had a sacrificial squad run up to draw the enemy out and somehow the sergeant from that squad was still there turn 3 being a massive pain for my enemy, who missed every shot during the shooting when targeting her and the non infantry hardly did anything
Null and blank are both accurate! Sisters get called 'Null maidens' quite a bit, and Blank is a very common term. Also applicable is pariah, as psychic blanks are spurned by the rest of society - they just feel bad to be around.
I jumped around a lot to check out specific armies so I might have missed it, but was Leader options at all a consideration in how good any army's chaff is? Because I feel like, at least for DG Poxwalkers, they are a lot better when you consider them as basically just 50pts for an extra 10 wounds on Typhus.
I also question how important just, physically occupying space was. I don't mean in the sitting on the objective, but physically blocking your opponent from either reaching an objective or coming in from reserves. It's more difficult now but not impossible, especially with some of the cheaper ppm units. It's certainly an army specific consideration - obviously the more jumpy armies would feel the impact of this more - but a fair one to consider.
The best part about playing skaven in total warhammer 3/Warhammer age of sigmar is that everything is cannon fodder
Blank is the term for the person, and null is a description of their presence. _however_ the terms are effectively interchangeable.
Grey Knights should probably include inquisitors and henchmen in their armies again just for more diverse units and better cannon fodder like when it was Codex: Daemonhunters
The Imperialis Militia from Horus Heresy is basically "we made a faction that is nothing but cannon fodder. This includes tanks and super heavies."
Skiitaari rangers - ACTUAL redshirts. That alone should've given them a boost in the rating. :)
In most lore where they go into details about it a blank is just someone with little to no presence in the warp. Tau are almost all blanks. They neither suppress or enhance the warp by existing, in the same way as a rock, or a cloud. A null is someone with an anti-psychic presence, whose existence imposes 'normalcy' on the universe around them. Nulls are very strong blanks.
Kroot would have been S tier cannon fodder if Geedubs hadn't removed their Sniper bullet option
Honestly this is my favourite format you guys do, good fun
Pink horrors should have been A+, and it was touched on, but once you do the math, its so much greater.
10 pink models = 10 wounds
Split to 2 blues = +20 wounds, 30 wounds total.
Blues to brimstone = +10 wounds, 40 wounds total.
Add in the faction D3 respawning for the Pinks, = near infinite wounds = infinite bodies = infinite fodder.
Obviously splitting isnt garenteed, but its not an absolute like every other faction (minus guard's "reinforcement" strategem reviving whole units)
I do think Poxwalkers deserve better than a B despite the lack of gun, because with Guardsman you have to train them to an extent which makes them have some effort to make more of. Poxwalkers literally make more of themselves out of their enemies (or the random passerby's). A guardsman is handed the helmet and gun of the guy that died in front of him, Poxwalkers *are* the guy the died in from of him
black templar have neophytes/intiates they're dirt cheap and fodder as well as flexible.
I’m listening to fall of cadia right now, it’s absolutely fantastic. I don’t want to spoil, but if you’re expecting space marines to be idiots, you won’t be disappointed.
Why the heck did you grade cabalites when they have wracks?
Aw, you didn't split daemons into 4 parts this time :(
Thought I'd get to hear you talk about plaguebearers, since sitting on objectives and eating bolter rounds is pretty well all they do!
I'll have you know that those Ultramarine scouts are clearly Colts and not the Lions, they even have horseshoe logo
All my Tzaangors have Chainswords and Guns!...... I am the PROOF!
For Tau I would argue that the correct answer might be Tactical Drones, at least from a lore point. Tau are not happy to throw soldiers in the meat grinder, even the non-Tau species. That's why they rely so heavily are Drones. That's what the Tau really see as expendable. Even still, they aren't that good as far as "cannon fodder",. at least in 10th, due to their lack of OC.
Pink horrors also get points for having guards infantry points per dollar
and after watching this episode I have determined you guys are from my area lol. RIP Lions.
new listener. just finished ugliest models and hopped on this one. OPR is amazing and very hyped to hear it get more recognition
May I suggest a version of this, but for Vehicles?
I had a Spanish teacher that literally passed me with the lowest grade. She told me she never graded anything I turned in she just never wanted to have me again
13:00 "real football" so, the kind of football where you don't kick the ball with your foot? 😉
To be fair to eldar guardians though, while the whole "every eldar life is precious for a dying race" is definitely an important factor, there's the other perspective of- the guardian's are not your full time military troopers. The full time standing army of the craftworld are the aspect warriors, who take even more time and effort to become what they are. Guardians are a militia army formed from the civilians of the craftworld. So technically the entire population above a certain age within the craftworld is eligible to be a guardian, even if their actual path might be a craftsman, an artist, a scholar etc. And from that perspective, raising a guardian army isn't that difficult (relative to their species, that is)
It's worth pointing out that many guardians will be former aspect warriors, which is why they have nearly identical statlines
You started talking about the termagaunts “guns” as soon as my mom walked in
A lot of Kabalite warriors are born in a vat. So mass produced cannon foder.
Saddly here I am with roughly 15 Tzangoors with pistol and chainsword. I Just started playing and didn't know better, I thought I had to give em 40k arsenal for Thousand sons xD
If I had a wish. I'd use it to make Brad British and have him listen to one episode.
31:54 "Roadside Picnic" I get that reference!
I’m late but I gotta put in a word of support for Jakhals.
Cheapest we have bar spawn which don’t count.
Melee is alright, they kill like two marines w/ the charge. Wouldn’t personally hold that against them, but I see merit in doing so.
Great at holding points. They have sticky if it’s needed, and have icons to reward you w/ blessing rerolls if you use them forholding points. Native fnp, which can be bugged to a 5++ using blessings also lets them survive smalls arms fire being dumped into them just a little longer than similar units in other factions.
Lore wise, they are still viewed as expendable, being used in the millions by some warbands like.
For 1000 sons, I'm already sad. As soon as they said cannon fodder, I started crying in goat birdman
I just want them to be good to field, but with the new rules, it seems like a much better idea to summon some pink horrors, and the changeling
Serf spam could be a neat Astartes fodder unit.
Football: *exists*
Americans: create a sport with no ball, which you don't play with your foot, then proceed to call it the true football
Neophyte Hybrids are even better, because you can get regenerating models for them! And if the unit gets wiped, they get to come back! They're just so cheap and utterly expendable.
Didnt expect a mikeburnfire reference
the leagues of vinci are a original army made for age of fantasy, the ad mech equivalent is the machine cult
Not that you care, but for once Brad is right either way, because technically both nulls and blanks would be correct terms, as would be pariahs but that just makes me really wish they'd bring back Necron Pariahs because those were cool as hell.
Also specifically for Eric, failed space marines become, depending on the chapter, anything from servitors to the dude who writes the purity seals. Or they just get got.
16:59 And Nurglings can't hold an objective 🫠
Vaush is a real big fan of that one gaunt model lol
Read, it's not the longest book you've ever read. We can tell it's not the longest book Eric has ever "ridden" hahaha
I still say us as the orks with Gretchen get a lil cp farm for 3 units so feilding 60x grechen in 3 groups gas
You can add a red gobo or a wortsnagga
gretchen are so dispensable, orks use them as ammunition
10:10 how sweet that Brad thinks an Imperial Guardsman will survive to the age of eighteen.
I was thinking about y’all durning the lions game, I really think this decade they are gonna win it all
40:00-40:06 I was thinking the same. 🤣
The "cadia exploded get fucked" is gonna spark a discussion i can see it
Man if you think the way they've handled the end of the 13th Black Crusade is bad now you should see how it was before they retconed it where Chaos just "barely won". Hell even the Eldar were able to make some minor gains and take back some Crone Worlds in the original version of the campaign.
You mean that one from 2003, decided by results of over a quarter million games of 40k and Battlefleet Gothic
So ready for Saban to have his Pete Bell moment and start coaching a peewee team to Nattys:-).
We. Are. Not. A. Brick. Wall. We. Are. Skitarii.
Plays game with hands - name it football.
i checked (23:38) its not the catachan statline. catachans have 5+save and 2 oc
Roadside Picnic reference! I'm here for it!
Every factions secret, cooler, second faction. Ei admech technically having cult mechanicus and skitarii
Gene steelers having guard in them
Tau having kroot
Votann are apparently more numerous than eldar and Tau
IMPERIAL GUARD NUMBER 1 🎊🦅🦅ASTRA MILITARUM MENTIONED IN THE SAME SENTENCE AS "GOOD"
arco flagulents are actually pretty tanky against D1 weapons with their 4+ Feel no pain.
Tzaangor favoritism. 'Oh they have an invuln and 4 toughness, but they're cannon fodder!'
Next up ranking every factions main battle tank
So im just getting into wh and was wondering about what would help my army. Started with the salamanders warforged strike force box and was hoping to hear where i should go from here. Its got 20 intercessors, 3 eradicators, 3 aggressors and adrax. Any help would be great
Truly one of my favorite types of videos. Theyre always a delight. Especially when space marines suck at the topic
Oh wow, is Poorhammer based in Michigan? Nice. Michigan represent!
gretchen are not just cannon fodder, they are ammo
But when do we get every faction’s best piece of lore?
when Votann has any lmao
No one in the world outside of the US cares about American HANDball. Meanwhile, FOOTball in the rest of the world is what everyone else cares about.
Im pretty sure that nulls and blanks are the same thing, right?