@@glenndoiron9317 i agree priests need a kick, but doesn't a stun do the same thing? stops casting. and mobs get right back to casting that spell even with kicks nowadays - after kicks from all classes.
@@kerkertrandov459 most paladin heals (Holy Shock, Word of Glory, Holy Prism) are all instant casts. Empowered Holy Lights through Infusion of Light cast faster, but not fast enough.
@@MrDoctorDave Unless you are seriously tracking CDR on armaments with LS AC, there's really no reason to ever cast FoL nor HL unless you messed up your position, and you have judgement,Prism and your both HS charges on CD. I only ever use Fol for quick CDR for armaments is there is absolutely nothing happening and I still have infusions left, or to get more by prepping seconds in advance of a pull.
MW devs should be forced to do high keys with dps that have like a single defensive like boomkins. Especially before they nerfed tank busters and the many buffs they did to our damage in small incriments over the course of the season. They'd be begging for pain suppression or barkskin/ironbark (i forget,) and only taking frost mage, dk, prot pal, and ret pal as their team comp cause there was (and kinda still is) way too many things that cannot be outhealed or survived without a damage reduction. I feel like blizz devs don't play the game at all or if they do they don't talk to the dungeon design team nearly enough. Whoever tests healers is likely locked in a broom closet with a flickering light bulb that randomly turns on and off while testing +2 keys with god mode on.
@@Aoibhinn-mw MW dev is insanely good rn, they're making that spec better and better each day, sure life cocoon isnt a great external but hey atleast its an external, cant say the same for say resto sham.
hpal got their rework in DF and felt so good....for a month...until they nerfed, nerfed, nerfed, and now they don't know what they want to do with the class again.
if a rework feels good until a nerf, it was not a good rework in the first place. Good reworks still play good, even after the honeymoon and balancing phase.
honestly at start of tww with herald it felt pretty good, too. was too strong maybe, yes. But blizzard nerfed/buffed the wrong stuff and here we are with AC lightsmith now (which gets nerfed) and the same old problematicly weak basetoolkit. Holy shock/spemders are wet noodles again.
The first nerf was numbers which is fine. Then they nerfed by removing the abilities that made the rework fun in the first place. Not every nerf is just number tuning. The basically reworked the rework into garbage
@@roflixo 10.1.5 rework was never a good rework to begin with, just insanely OP at the time. Many of the changes they did were kind of reverted with TWW beta, when they had to rework the spec AGAIN. And then we were back to square 1.
@@thomasr.7398 it was strong only because Dawnlight was bugged in raid and Light of the martyr was not being properly logged. And they nerfed holy shock and WoG by like 15% and then nerfed Virtue and now the spec has been through reworks and feels like a mess
Im glad i got back into disc priest these last two weeks. Its like the end of dragonflight again and i get to enjoy my time until i switch into fistweave 😂
The questionable direction they they are going with the Hpal nerfs and buffs is the reason why i gave up the Siren patch and will likely be sitting out Undermine(d) and playing other games. I don't feel like struggling real hard again because the spec is just designed stupidly and I have no desire to reroll again.
@@codycurtin2295 what you really ment is, play the flavor of the season healer when hpally is shit. its not about it being fun its about finding the cookiecutter/bis healer haha
Same. My 2 main healers for the last 2 exps have been hpal and monk. Monk was always a bit of fun and hpal was my main but i've pretty much ditched my pally completely now. Any pushing I do, it's straight on the monk. It is a shame as I fell in love with hpal early DF (before the 1st rework i might add) but it really feels like they hate the spec as the amount of constant nurfs they've had since that 1st rework is unbelievable. Pushing towards a caster-centric play style is absolutely the wrong move and might just kill any interest in hpal again. Such a shame.
@@Defocus_ for a lot of people it is but I really try to go by how much fun I have. DEFINITELY a lot of overlap with meta because of I'm struggling the whole time I am just miserable plain and simple. But for instance this patch resto sham is nutso but I just wasn't enjoying either riptide or totems so I played dps. I usually cycle between Hpal, Disc, and Fistweaver
I’m so happy with the changes they are making to the Druid side of my talents 😭 All the talents i am choosing on PTR are talents I actually want and are going to use 😭
Dont need that, just nerf aoe skills for m+ and nerf ST skills for raid. And for healers u can nerf aoe healing past 5 targets for raid. M+ and raid are very easy to balance. For example (i havent played paladin) pala's avenger shield gives him nonstop interrupts in m+ but is useless in raid. So if u nerf that, pala becomes weaker in m+ without becoming weaker in raid. Or if guardian druid is very strong, u can nerf maul which nerfs raid but keeps m+ the same as they dont use maul much there. U dont need separate modifiers like in pvp, just target the right skills.
As main Prevoker 3k, I think the changes to Flameshaper aren’t enough to consider using it instead of Chronowarden. Chronowarden fits really well in m+, with the changes it gives to the class. Hover converts to a blink (you can avoid some mechanics/damage), Hover gives a little defensive, almost all the time with +5% intellect, Tip the Scales haste buff, Cooldown reduction, Echo buff and chronoflames appearing everytime you do a empowered spell.
as a resto shaman main for years, I always wonder what the design philosophy is at Blizzard that they think Disc priest can literally forget they have a mana bar yet I have to drink 20 times per key. Like.. why? I do half Disc's damage and I can't heal as much, yet my spells cost 10 times as much, hmk?
I believe that the priest changes are not nerfs, but buffs depending on how people play the spec, like the way I play the specs, these are major buffs to priests.
Of the healers I've played this season, i ended up maining mist just because it feels so good to control my mana economy. I put down my hpal cause I'd run out of man's in like 4 minutes having to solo heal pugs. Pres is fun, but makes me hate life in Keys. I've been a priest main since tbc and the class as a whole just feels 10 years out of date
Hpal has blessing of winter but it def can be underwhelming. They should buff it to 2% max mana per second (is 1% currently) maybe and see how it plays. Unlike mana tea it can't actually replace drinking before an intense boss fight imo. It can get you through some times depends really on team comp and the boss. Last boss of cot? Def want to drink ime. Last boss of arak? Prolly gonna be fine.
Resto shaman is super fun, totems do the work for u and u have a button for everything plus the best interrupt in the game. If it had a few less buttons it would be perfect. Also dmg rotation is giga easy, u have 3 buttons.
Every single time I'm doing some +10s weeklies on my prevoker I filter groups into almost filled (3/0/1), and join those that have 3 melee dps. I'm not chasing the warlock who decided to use his entire range and blasts from 40y away.
Man disc in recent times has just been feeling so bad bot talking about strength but how it feels. Smite spamming and only having like 4 buttons is so bad. Wild how they keep changing my all time favorite healer into just something mid
I played mistweaver at beginning of the season as a healer twink. It didn't feel right. Since a few days ago I was completely oblivious to the jade empowerment and crackling lighting thing. This thing is lit! combined with a switch to harmony hero talents and this thing that lets the channel jump with your instant heals it's just brutally fun. I out do some tanks in DMG and heal everything. Just great. Single target boss fights we're the challenging part because I opted out of sheilons gift completly. But with the rework of jade empowerment to be a better grp heal in single target situations and this thing that reduces the CD on revival......it's to much . If this goes live mist weaver will burn like a supa Nova for a sort time and then will be nerfed to the ground.
Druid tree change seems ok, but I switched from resto to boomy to actually play the game, and Im not sure how much better the output will be with mastery change. We will see, if we get invited to any keys that is. 😅
I'm fine with caster centric Holy Pala. What I'm not fine with is Avenging Crusader. It's so contradictory to the rest of the spec and to the role of the healer, especially Holy Paladin who's supposed to be THE spot healer. Somehow there's just 1 talent that turns you major CD into a 1-min, deprioritizes Holy Shock, does random smart healing and demands you stay in melee and basically not interact with anything at all. And I'm also not fine with Lightsmith. Feels so out of place to me. Put a buff on a target that is like whatever, put it on anyone, doesn't make a difference if you give the sword to a Rogue, a Mage, a Demo Lock or a Aug Evoker. I still insist that Holy Paladin just needs more talents to create sharper distinctions between caster and melee builds.
R.I.P Disc Priest… if these new changes go through without major adjustments I will lose faith in Blizzard forever. Might be nice to have an extra $15 for beer money that I’ll drink in a night. Not sure what to do with the other 27 days every month though.
As a Resto shaman main, overall the changes are not good enough to make them decent. It is just an L overall. The talents and building to the new talent nodes are rough. We need a rework or revamp of the spec.
Yeah, the changes for holy priest are definitely in the right direction but they fumbled a bit. They were perhaps worried about PoH being too strong with Lightweaver so they only buffed its terrible base by 40%, but on PTR its still only doing like 250k per person at 670il. Now with resonate words and the other 75% buff talent i saw a 1mil crit heal on PoH but thats a LOT of set up and luck. Renew still heals for pitiful amounts, the talents surrounding it arent worth taking except Benediction (mainly cuz what else will you take that early and its in the way of other talents) and the FIVE capstone talents are just a mess of a design for the layout of the tree. With the numbers I was seeing its very possible that you end up with only 1 capstone (Lightweaver) and rely on PoM, Dispersing Light, and Cosmic ripple to handle small aoe damage, and then use sanctify lightweaver+resonate word PoHs for heavy damage, and remain Heal/Flash Heal during downtime. The big push for Apoth means we SHOULD take answered prayers but its in such a terrible spot that it kinda seems like its not worth going for. You lose out on other goodies that are just helpful more of the time than a random 8 second buff. They need to swap answered prayers with Lightwell, and possibly make more of the talent nodes 1/1 instead of 2/2.
Holy Priest has potential to be a real winner if they can stick the landing on some of these changes. A particular pain point for me is that the bottom row contains some interesting tools, like Divine Word, but with Lightweaver being more or less mandatory it’s just too costly to get some of those tools as matters stand.
I'm so sick of Lightweaver gameplay. It isn't fun. I would rather see Lightwell heal for a little bit more. That might make it more viable, it would also pair well with Prayer of Mending/Renew builds by having greater passive healing. Also buff Prayer of Healing slightly to make it more viable. Gameplay would be to keep PoM on CD, spread renews, drop Lightwell for more passive hots, and utilize Flash Heal/Serenity for massive single target healing where necessary, and Sanctify/Prayer of Healing for filler aoe heals. Edit - Forgot to mention - Divine Image is WAY past it's prime. It's less enjoyable than Lightweaver, does not feel impactful and needs to go IMO.
As a tank player healing felt really easy, u just chilling in the background doing the aoe hps check every 45 seconds and not much else the rest of the time. Meanwhile as a tank u blink and ure ded. Defensive down? Ded. Glad they're making healers harder to match the difficulty of tanking, if ure pussy that cant handle challenges go play dps.
What about Disc going Oracle for Twinsight Penance providing Aegis shields since casts would also go on allies? And focus on Crit/Haste rather than Haste/Mastery?
the biggest fix to holy priest would be to cut all cd’s by 70% (faster cd) and 2.75x more cast speed gain from haste or cut cast times for non instant cast spells in half.. these would majorly help fix holy priest without having to overhaul dungeons to correct for blizz fkups with holy spec .. or put high(er) haste stat numbers on tier gear
@@seikanekasinhaving to sequence 6 casts to build modifiers and ramp for damage before executing your rotation then doing your rotation is not just “having spells” it’s having TOO many spells
Hey Jak, one thing you didn't talk much about are tier set except for disc. There's still time for them to change but the evoker one for example is really bad. It makes verdant embrace apply a hot but it can't even echo, shows how much thought were put into them. I think only the hpal one sounds fun with the divine toll cd reduction, I hope they rework most of them. I. I really dislike the shared 2p idea, especially for healers.
I would put evoker in the "big win" tier. Evoker utility is too good to not include in a group with zephyr probadly being the best group cooldown in high keys, aug falling out of meta and disc getting big nerfs. So the most logical step would be putting the evoker on the heal spot next season. best contenders might be druid and monk
if aug were to ever fall out of the meta, and evoker utility was THAT important, you would be more likely to take dev evoker if its damage is good (which it almost always has been, excluding the first half of this season and the very start of DF S3) because they can put source of magic on whatever healer is in the group. pres players can't put source of magic on themselves, and it is a core part of why aug is strong, plus if mistweaver/disc is meta they get more benefit from source of magic than other healers. pres would have to be VERY overtuned to be meta, sad but true
@@SirPhilMcCrackinVonBeggington first thing i have heared from the PTR is that aug is just doing around 90% of the damage of a third DPS and that would definitly mean aug falling out of the "best meta group"
Hpal already felt really scuffed at the start of season1, it felt somewhat fun and playable (no where near top tier) with the light-smith changes halfway through the season, and now they’re nerfing it into the ground again. I really don’t want to go back to casting 😢.
Right with ya on that one, I just simply cannot comprehend Blizzard's unyielding need to continuously boop Holy Pally in the head with nerfs, especially to a well received playstyle. I get that there's a group that loves caster paladin and their opinions are valid, but why can't the Holy Pally dev create a tree that caters to two differ playstyles like MW monk? Now terrible changes to disc....There's already a healer shortage and now it's gonna propagate that even more. Blizz also said they were trying to reduce the amount of burst healing for this season at the beginning of the expansion and that never happened lol.
@@kerkertrandov459 I play all three roles and play 7 different classes, tank and healers are both in shortage. What point are you trying to make other than being toxic?
@@Soulmatic25 that making healers harder isnt a bad thing as it will match tank difficulty. Healers and tanks arent meant to be easy, go play dps if u wanna afk press same 5 button over and over
@@kerkertrandov459 If you're struggling as a tank, maybe try playing a different role instead? As a tank you need to know dungeon route, percentage of mobs, tank busters, and positioning. It's a thankless role, without a doubt, but it's not difficult at all with the right knowledge. Can faceroll as a blood DK or Prot pally, shrugs.
No longer buffing the healer w ebon might is huge for healers. Damage numbers can always change but not buffing a healer is incredibly impactful for us
@@AutomaticJak I agree with this as I already struggle sometimes to justify taking aug to certain keys like Mists. If a dps dies on mistcaller the aug just feels bad cause all the bosses in mist need pure dps to force phase change or else it's a brick. The aug can make people a little tankier for like a few problem things but most of these things up to 15 where around I try to play you don't really need an aug, what you need is for the clone to die faster. In 16 supposedly you start to need an aug and big healer damage to push but I haven't gotten there yet, but def harder for me to imagine justifying aug that isn't at least making me and the tank *also* do more damage and healing, because that's actually pretty helpful. and plus I think some teams pushing like 17 or so have done it without an aug, so if I don't need an aug hypothetically to time keys, and the aug isn't helpful for these single target dps checks that brick keys, and the aug doesn't buff me and the tank, then why would I take the aug except to a place like stonevault? Wouldn't spriest with PI and off healing and stuff be better? It could be ig since skill matters more than spec but I pug mostly so it's a tough decision.
To be clear, in a casual pug environment (M+ 8-12) I don’t like playing pres, and I don’t like have pres in my group. It always seems like hunters or mages or ele will get randomly dropped. Bc they are outside of range (1st boss in Ara is a good example). And while I don’t think that’s the fault of the pres, these kinds of issues don’t exist for other healers. Also, it seems to be a harder spec to pick up and play as an alt/offspec. Not super relevant, tbh, bc it’s true for all healers to a certain extent. And any Pres with normal ilvl and io is gonna know how to play their class. But I’ve seen newbie Pres (including myself at the start of every season) really struggle with CD management, and even proper execution of the CD. I would compare Avenging Crusader and Chi-Ji to Stasis. They all have kinda the same CD. But the melee ones are way easier to execute as a first time to the spec. Even though Stasis is the coolest and most fun and versatile healer CD it requires you to understand your class and incoming damage/healing profiles in a way that other classes don’t and instead can just muscle through with kicks and crusader strikes. Lastly, RIP all Pres who die VEing a target in a frontal/swirlie. Therefore, imo, I think Pres is, on average, a bad choice in fully pugged 8-12 keys. Not bc the spec is bad/underpowered/unfun but bc the game system is essentially working against the playstyle.
Hpal is being pushed in a direction that feels similar to Dragon flight Season 3/4. Mana issues and casting to generate holy power and conserve mana doesn't seem so far off again especially with herald. Tested my hpal on healing dummies it took me just over 4mins to oom myself going all out with healing spenders can't wait :) Maybe I just need more mp5 kekw
Hpala on live is in its worst state since M+ got introduced into the game. In top 5000 M+ runs, hpala is the only spec not showing up ONCE, and for good reason too. So what does Blizz do? Nerfs it, and forces hpala out of its final frontier - melee. Guess Elle won't be swapping back to holy for 11.1 kek
haha that "yayyy" wraps up my thoughts on hpal this season. yeahhh.. rn you try casting flash of light more than once as filler while your other more impactful buttons are down and someone's probably dying. although they both feel like they do so little id rather hit holy light than flash of light. its a good move buffing them, being required to be in melee all the time is not fun especially when you want to not be in melee and still heal.
Holy Paladin Main here. 2600 I.O. I am very sad blizzard keeps doing this crap, Look I get it... a group of HP don't want to play AC build and want a more caster oriented build. Rather than Nerfing AC they should just buff Herold and make that the "Caster" build if people feel they like that play style better! This would be the perfect opportunity for them to separate what both play styles with the hero talents! I am a ride or die Holy Paladin so despite these nerfs I will still be playing it next season, but man is it gonna feel bad trying to get into pugs. Right now I am 638 Ilvl that still gets passed sometimes for "Meta" healers, even if they are lower than me and have less Rating than me. Feels Bad.
@@kerkertrandov459 On that same note a good player can perform well regardless of what spec they are playing. All specs are viable in content that 99.9% of the playerbase is capable of playing. Realistically in the vast majority of content, it doesn't matter. More often than not I see bad players constantly hopping from meta character to meta character barely knowing how to play them, just copy pasting some Icy Veins talent build because a RUclips video said x spec does the best damage and then they end up having sub-par performance. I think it's better to have a handful of classes you intimately understand.
Holy paladin is in a weird spot being a melee class. I don't bring hpals because I play with another melee spec and if you only have 1 ranged in the group it can make some keys way harder than they should like ara kara
2600 io Hpal here with a sub 630 ilevel. I will never play AC build, I can’t stand smart heals. But also, Ellesmere, the literal #1 Hpal in the world has cleared +15s as Herald because he prefers it, so Herald isn’t really bad to begin with. Personally, I love the agency to decide where my heals are going, so even if Herald were the literal worst spec in the game, I’d still play it, and likely get 2500+ fairly easily.
Holy light as paladin feels good to cast, but only the quick one buffed by holy prism, not the normal ones, even in bfa where we had the strong infusion that buffed crit on flash of light, casting those fast and quick spells always felt good in between holy shocks, I wish we went back to that kind of weaving in between, if they want paladins to cast.
my bdk has timed nearly every 12 and is rank 60 on my server where my paladin has timed a Single 12 (NW) and is now rank 49. anything would be better than what hpal is now. for the class to even feel playable in 12s you had to get a bunch of the haste gear out of the raid.
This tier list is just speculations nothing is tested at the point to mark what is the best tier list, unless there is enough data test and logs, could be so different.
@@AutomaticJak I know, but the issue is now in discord channels from healers they are thinking this is going to be, and I know is their fault how to interpret that, but also I think you should say that at least in the preview picture of the image...
like you said PTR is not open when recored this but testing holy priest in PTR m+ feels good healing pumping and stuff butt its still holy just like Rdruid just healing pumper
Rdruid has lots of utility, aoe roots, cyclones, typhoons, incap roar, aoe ms buff, stun, sleep, soothe etc. All priest has is a shitty fear. Rdruid is def not a pumper.
Share your sentiments with Holy Pally completely. AC getting neutered feels awful, and caster melee healer is not the right direction for the spec. I enjoy both Herald and Lightsmith equally, and hope that tuning keeps them relevant. Getting flashbacks to S2->S3 Dragonflight with how they handled Hpal, except this time Hpal was not Overpowered.
Oracle Disc, big fat F_! Managed to kill 6/8M playing Oracle Disc. Havent tried it on Silken yet, but oh boy it's over now unless something is going to chance. Thanks for video, like always.
Blizzard workflow : rework a spec until the gameplay if finally fun and fluid. Let ppl enjoy that spec for 3 months. Destroy all that work for some reason cause you hate when ppl have fun playing your game
Holy Priest belong in the "L" catagory. So far, PoH is far too weak (plus too mana costly), it's not viable. Renew is far too weak, it's not viable. In a M+ enviornment, we still lack AOE healing, defensives, an interrupt, mobilty. All of the same issues we currently have. The bottom of the tree...too many good options but not enough points to take them all, it's a mess! Disc will still be the better choice in a M+ envoirnment over Holy by far! As far as raids....they removed Salv!
@@AutomaticJak I did notice that our holy words have improved, especially sanctify which is great but you alluded in other videos to them potentially getting nerfed so I am worried to it'll get nerfed plus I thought they were really aiming to make PoH and Renew strong for us which it's completely flopped so far. Overall disappointed with the changes for Holy and fear we will still be the worst healer out there for keys in season 2.
@@PyroFortune I agree! Heck, even S4 DF was great imo. Big problem is, dungeons arent like they used to be. Now, it's all about getting through heavy bursts of party wide AOE damage every pull and constantly needing to move around. This expansion has been the worst I have ever experienced as an Hpriest main since Vanilla. We are still in dire need of help! Guess it's time to reroll monk.....
I think I’m in the minority here and maybe heavily healer-brain poisoned. But I think the way the different specs manage mana is really cool and gives you a metric to progress against yourself. Like as Rsham I find it fun to try to maximize the most out of buffs and throughput and not overheal etc to have enough mana. And then drinking water in my rain totem feels very thematic LMAO. I also love casually slow walking and drinking my mana tea as the fire mage explodes in flames, the UH dk is going insane and the Aug is blasting off. And Hpal is cool to rotate through the seasons and then blowing a buncha mana through virtue and WoGs and being able to conserve a lot of mana by rotating through AC and awakening. Deride me all you want. :P I know it’s niche and DPS and tanks hate waiting for me to drink, but I have my water keybound and i encourage the tank to keep pulling and not wait for me. (I try to be ahead of the pull, close to the next one anyway). I also understand that just because I like the mechanic. Doesn’t mean that it’s good. Or even that it’s good for the game and meta. Hahahah
Your post for sure has got to be bait. Homogenize mana either all healers have to drink/deal with mana issues or none of them do so fking boring not being able to play virtue on mythic progress bosses that take longer than a couple of minutes, same goes for m+ why can i run an entire key on my rsham alt (which has more utility, better damage and bloodlust PLUS windfury/mastery group buff and not go oom, but my paladin has to run into all these arbitrary walls? What part about this is "fun" class/game design? It's not unique, it's annoying, you're for sure in the minority with this god awful take.
@@Gongshown yeah I don’t raid, so i don’t have any opinion on that aspect. Hpal is also my most recent alt and I only do casual 8’s and 10s so it’s not like it’s been an overwhelming burden for me personally. Plus I think timing the seasons buff is a pretty cool vibe and trying to get the most out of a nearly depleted mana bar. I agree it’s not’s “good” gameplay. But I find it fun. It’s not bait. Some people just enjoy the game differently. :) 🤗 Although I do agree that they should standardize the mana management like you said. That is a good idea for getting more ppl to heal.
Hpal has been non stop horrible to play since its rework in DF S2. Then in beta they reworked the spec YET ANOTHER TIME and it didn't even got to live until it was dismantled once again. On 11.0.5 got unintended buffs and enabled AC/LS that while not perfect, was fun and a bit of fresh air since Herald sucks now, and of course they had to kill AC anytime is remotely relevant. Why not deleted it at this point? Both hero specs are awful and unfun to play now. 2 Failed reworks in 4 seasons, blizz is peaking here. They just don't know what to do with the spec.
@@kerkertrandov459 I literally play all healers except for Holy priest. No other healer had 2 reworks in 4 seasons and still feels terribly designed, except for maybe disc joining the ranks next season.
You said Holy and Disc Priest were gutted in S1 and look now at Disc ? lol This is just the beginning of the PTR cycle so I guess good time for engagement farming
Disc was really bad in beta and only got good after they massively buffed its healing output at the start of the xpac :) I made videos covering the rise of disc and everything Holy is currently one of the worst healers in S1
Can we bloody fire the person that is pushing for Hpala becoming a caster class. We are at this circle for multiple expansions now. It is made into a caster, nobody likes it, avenging wrath is brought back. People are happy, blizzard in their infinite wisdom come back to the casting that nobody likes. WHY. LIKE. WHY?
I feel that beacon should be stronger on 5 man, so you're not pigeon holed into using the beacon of virtue. Sort of like the disc fix. It's kind of simple really... If the double beacon can safely keep 2 dps up the hardcasting Hpal will be A-tier.
I Love mw and play it every season, regardless of bad or good, but I'm scared of what their doing to it. I absolutely love the changes, but I have a feeling that the nerf hammer will destroy all the goo work they did. The lightening change is good, but wasaaay too strong as well as master of harmony dmg. I just hope they nerf the right things and don't ice us the hpal season 2 experience. Edit: I also hope that they kinda keep the throughput, because that's all that mw has. The phys dmg buff is way to weak (and also enforces ways more restricted comps) as well as their utility. Once mw doesn't hit the throughput requirements anymore, they are completely dead in keys
I don’t see Aug going anywhere. They have a lot of utility still, their personal dmg is going up, they’re buffing dps more. If stuff dies quicker is never a bad thing for tanks/dps
Finally decided to pick up a healer a few weeks go since the last time i healed in shadowlands because it was fun leveling as disc only for it to get made unfun in the next patch, gotta love blizzard
Just giving up on hpal this season. The fact this spec has and is getting nerfed still, is unbelievable. Spec is unplayable. Blizz hates paladin players
It's painfully obvious not a single person at Blizzard plays Holy Paladin. Ever since they removed Holy Infusion like 2 weeks before TWW launch (for some stupid reason) it feels like Holy Paladin's identity just keeps taking hits. Do they even want us to be a melee healer??? What was the point of all the changes they made in beta? Why backtrack on them all throughout all of the 11.0.x patches??? I don't understand this dev team they drive me crazy!!! Why do they keep messing with our casted heals? You wanna know the core of the problem? When these devs decided HURR LET'S CHANGE HOW INFUSION OF LIGHT WORKS and Holy Light has been terrible ever since. I hate Divine Favor it's such a terrible talent. It's just a bs band-aid fix to kind of sort of give us our old infusion back, but here's a genius idea for you Blizzard: How about you swallow your pride and just give us our fast casted Holy Lights back whenever we get infusion??? Congrats! I just fixed 35% of the spec's issues! It has been YEARS and this spec is still suffering from very similar problems it has multiple expansions ago. This is ridiculous!!!
I like caster paladin okay. The 4pc bonus is going to be really great, probably too strong, and I just know they'll address it by nerfing Holy Shock rather than adjusting the bonus. 😕
Im so happy that Lightsmith gets nerfed. "Meta" on Hpal is broken and Herald of the Sun will be more welcome pugs. Herald feels better anyways (In my opinion at least), just the throughput is lower than lightsmith on current patch.
Tried HPala, DiscPriest, Shaman and now MW Monk... yet none fo these are doin' i for me except Druid, gonna stick to the main. I don't think i'm gonna reroll at all, for all ptches are to come. Played HPala in Pandaria and Daza-Alor but yea... now the class feels like a meele-healer and the the spells are healing litteraly 0 except if you go into meele with wings.... but yeah, ain't nobody got time fo dat~
Sad to lose AG as resto sham, the only real chance when you can pump damage comfortable. Without it and no change to our damage we'll be the absolute bottom of dps for season 2 I guess.. (I play far seer)
Click this link sponsr.is/AutomaticJak and use my code AUTOMATICJAK to get 25% off your first payment for boot.dev.
Disc priests: we need a kick
Blizz: okay, we’ll remove Rapture
100% my first thought when I saw tank Brann. "Still won't be able to play nonshadow in delves due to no interupt on my priest"
We were not specific enough, blizz thought we meant a kick in the teeth.
@@RunicSoulEater Holy has Chastise..
@@SirPhilMcCrackinVonBeggington which is a stun, not an interrupt. the mobs get right back to casting that spell as soon as they're out of it.
@@glenndoiron9317 i agree priests need a kick, but doesn't a stun do the same thing? stops casting. and mobs get right back to casting that spell even with kicks nowadays - after kicks from all classes.
As a Holy Pal, if I have to cast a Holy Light to save someone, 4/5 times they die mid cast.
Use instant cast then like priest's Power Word Life (i dont play paladin xd)
Holy Light could be removed from the game and I wouldn't even notice, with how often I find an appropriate time to use it.
@@kerkertrandov459 most paladin heals (Holy Shock, Word of Glory, Holy Prism) are all instant casts. Empowered Holy Lights through Infusion of Light cast faster, but not fast enough.
@@Myrrkat I only cast when I have an infusion but honestly I should just use those procs on flash of lights to get some holy power.
@@MrDoctorDave Unless you are seriously tracking CDR on armaments with LS AC, there's really no reason to ever cast FoL nor HL unless you messed up your position, and you have judgement,Prism and your both HS charges on CD. I only ever use Fol for quick CDR for armaments is there is absolutely nothing happening and I still have infusions left, or to get more by prepping seconds in advance of a pull.
new drinking game: drink everytime jak says environment
Id like to keep my liver thanks
That’d be tough for your body’s environment
I'm a resto shaman, you cannot beat me at a drinking game XD
I rlly wish to see a disc dev playing the spec, I feel it would be a interesting sight.
They don’t play the game, like at all.
@Moonwired Yep, that tracks.
MW devs should be forced to do high keys with dps that have like a single defensive like boomkins. Especially before they nerfed tank busters and the many buffs they did to our damage in small incriments over the course of the season. They'd be begging for pain suppression or barkskin/ironbark (i forget,) and only taking frost mage, dk, prot pal, and ret pal as their team comp cause there was (and kinda still is) way too many things that cannot be outhealed or survived without a damage reduction. I feel like blizz devs don't play the game at all or if they do they don't talk to the dungeon design team nearly enough. Whoever tests healers is likely locked in a broom closet with a flickering light bulb that randomly turns on and off while testing +2 keys with god mode on.
@@Aoibhinn-mw MW dev is insanely good rn, they're making that spec better and better each day, sure life cocoon isnt a great external but hey atleast its an external, cant say the same for say resto sham.
After being the meta healer for a patch lol?
hpal got their rework in DF and felt so good....for a month...until they nerfed, nerfed, nerfed, and now they don't know what they want to do with the class again.
if a rework feels good until a nerf, it was not a good rework in the first place. Good reworks still play good, even after the honeymoon and balancing phase.
honestly at start of tww with herald it felt pretty good, too. was too strong maybe, yes. But blizzard nerfed/buffed the wrong stuff and here we are with AC lightsmith now (which gets nerfed) and the same old problematicly weak basetoolkit. Holy shock/spemders are wet noodles again.
The first nerf was numbers which is fine. Then they nerfed by removing the abilities that made the rework fun in the first place. Not every nerf is just number tuning. The basically reworked the rework into garbage
@@roflixo 10.1.5 rework was never a good rework to begin with, just insanely OP at the time. Many of the changes they did were kind of reverted with TWW beta, when they had to rework the spec AGAIN. And then we were back to square 1.
@@thomasr.7398 it was strong only because Dawnlight was bugged in raid and Light of the martyr was not being properly logged. And they nerfed holy shock and WoG by like 15% and then nerfed Virtue and now the spec has been through reworks and feels like a mess
It's crazy how big of a difference it is when a class has a good dev that understands the issues with the spec and how to fix them
Wait i like how Disc plays now in keys :/
Same. I was really enjoying Disc. I dont get it why Blizzard destroyed Disc so hard :(
Im glad i got back into disc priest these last two weeks. Its like the end of dragonflight again and i get to enjoy my time until i switch into fistweave 😂
The questionable direction they they are going with the Hpal nerfs and buffs is the reason why i gave up the Siren patch and will likely be sitting out Undermine(d) and playing other games. I don't feel like struggling real hard again because the spec is just designed stupidly and I have no desire to reroll again.
Why not just play a different healer? When the spec I love is shit I just play another that is fun at that time
I wouldn’t give up just yet. If we voice our displeasure on the forums they may(probably not) change it with later tuning passes.
@@codycurtin2295 what you really ment is, play the flavor of the season healer when hpally is shit. its not about it being fun its about finding the cookiecutter/bis healer haha
Same. My 2 main healers for the last 2 exps have been hpal and monk.
Monk was always a bit of fun and hpal was my main but i've pretty much ditched my pally completely now. Any pushing I do, it's straight on the monk. It is a shame as I fell in love with hpal early DF (before the 1st rework i might add) but it really feels like they hate the spec as the amount of constant nurfs they've had since that 1st rework is unbelievable. Pushing towards a caster-centric play style is absolutely the wrong move and might just kill any interest in hpal again. Such a shame.
@@Defocus_ for a lot of people it is but I really try to go by how much fun I have. DEFINITELY a lot of overlap with meta because of I'm struggling the whole time I am just miserable plain and simple. But for instance this patch resto sham is nutso but I just wasn't enjoying either riptide or totems so I played dps. I usually cycle between Hpal, Disc, and Fistweaver
I’m so happy with the changes they are making to the Druid side of my talents 😭
All the talents i am choosing on PTR are talents I actually want and are going to use 😭
I would really like to see blizz differentiate M+ and raiding similarly to how they differentiate PVP from everything else.
Agreed! I love raiding and mostly dislike m+, but I feel required to do m+ to get my ilvl up for raid
@ more in the context of talents but yes I understand this sentiment.
Dont need that, just nerf aoe skills for m+ and nerf ST skills for raid. And for healers u can nerf aoe healing past 5 targets for raid. M+ and raid are very easy to balance. For example (i havent played paladin) pala's avenger shield gives him nonstop interrupts in m+ but is useless in raid. So if u nerf that, pala becomes weaker in m+ without becoming weaker in raid. Or if guardian druid is very strong, u can nerf maul which nerfs raid but keeps m+ the same as they dont use maul much there. U dont need separate modifiers like in pvp, just target the right skills.
they already do, for specs like aug, and disc attonement
They dont differentiate anything for pvp. Just slap on some bandaid pvp modifiers if something is obnoxious. Solo shuffle is just another m+
Im so excited for Monk, im gonna make one tonight! Thx Jack :)
As main Prevoker 3k, I think the changes to Flameshaper aren’t enough to consider using it instead of Chronowarden. Chronowarden fits really well in m+, with the changes it gives to the class. Hover converts to a blink (you can avoid some mechanics/damage), Hover gives a little defensive, almost all the time with +5% intellect, Tip the Scales haste buff, Cooldown reduction, Echo buff and chronoflames appearing everytime you do a empowered spell.
as a resto shaman main for years, I always wonder what the design philosophy is at Blizzard that they think Disc priest can literally forget they have a mana bar yet I have to drink 20 times per key. Like.. why? I do half Disc's damage and I can't heal as much, yet my spells cost 10 times as much, hmk?
YEP. I do pride myself on my sneaky between-pulls drinks tho 😂 absolutely slamming back mana buns all key
You forgot to rank Blood DKs on the healing chart.
My b!
I believe that the priest changes are not nerfs, but buffs depending on how people play the spec, like the way I play the specs, these are major buffs to priests.
Of the healers I've played this season, i ended up maining mist just because it feels so good to control my mana economy.
I put down my hpal cause I'd run out of man's in like 4 minutes having to solo heal pugs.
Pres is fun, but makes me hate life in Keys.
I've been a priest main since tbc and the class as a whole just feels 10 years out of date
Hpal has blessing of winter but it def can be underwhelming. They should buff it to 2% max mana per second (is 1% currently) maybe and see how it plays. Unlike mana tea it can't actually replace drinking before an intense boss fight imo. It can get you through some times depends really on team comp and the boss. Last boss of cot? Def want to drink ime. Last boss of arak? Prolly gonna be fine.
Resto shaman is super fun, totems do the work for u and u have a button for everything plus the best interrupt in the game. If it had a few less buttons it would be perfect. Also dmg rotation is giga easy, u have 3 buttons.
Every single time I'm doing some +10s weeklies on my prevoker I filter groups into almost filled (3/0/1), and join those that have 3 melee dps. I'm not chasing the warlock who decided to use his entire range and blasts from 40y away.
@@kerkertrandov459 actually is my next project
Man disc in recent times has just been feeling so bad bot talking about strength but how it feels. Smite spamming and only having like 4 buttons is so bad. Wild how they keep changing my all time favorite healer into just something mid
I played mistweaver at beginning of the season as a healer twink. It didn't feel right.
Since a few days ago I was completely oblivious to the jade empowerment and crackling lighting thing. This thing is lit! combined with a switch to harmony hero talents and this thing that lets the channel jump with your instant heals it's just brutally fun.
I out do some tanks in DMG and heal everything. Just great.
Single target boss fights we're the challenging part because I opted out of sheilons gift completly.
But with the rework of jade empowerment to be a better grp heal in single target situations and this thing that reduces the CD on revival......it's to much .
If this goes live mist weaver will burn like a supa Nova for a sort time and then will be nerfed to the ground.
Druid tree change seems ok, but I switched from resto to boomy to actually play the game, and Im not sure how much better the output will be with mastery change. We will see, if we get invited to any keys that is. 😅
The new monk tier sets about to make me reroll
I always check in with your videos to see if Hpal is playable(and fun) again. Love the content. Hate the balancing.
Things can only get worse before the get better, am I right my fellow Holy Pala enjoyers?... right?....
I'm fine with caster centric Holy Pala. What I'm not fine with is Avenging Crusader. It's so contradictory to the rest of the spec and to the role of the healer, especially Holy Paladin who's supposed to be THE spot healer. Somehow there's just 1 talent that turns you major CD into a 1-min, deprioritizes Holy Shock, does random smart healing and demands you stay in melee and basically not interact with anything at all. And I'm also not fine with Lightsmith. Feels so out of place to me. Put a buff on a target that is like whatever, put it on anyone, doesn't make a difference if you give the sword to a Rogue, a Mage, a Demo Lock or a Aug Evoker. I still insist that Holy Paladin just needs more talents to create sharper distinctions between caster and melee builds.
R.I.P Disc Priest… if these new changes go through without major adjustments I will lose faith in Blizzard forever. Might be nice to have an extra $15 for beer money that I’ll drink in a night. Not sure what to do with the other 27 days every month though.
Dumping holy paladin and going back to dps thx Blizz!
As a Resto shaman main, overall the changes are not good enough to make them decent. It is just an L overall. The talents and building to the new talent nodes are rough.
We need a rework or revamp of the spec.
Yeah, the changes for holy priest are definitely in the right direction but they fumbled a bit. They were perhaps worried about PoH being too strong with Lightweaver so they only buffed its terrible base by 40%, but on PTR its still only doing like 250k per person at 670il. Now with resonate words and the other 75% buff talent i saw a 1mil crit heal on PoH but thats a LOT of set up and luck. Renew still heals for pitiful amounts, the talents surrounding it arent worth taking except Benediction (mainly cuz what else will you take that early and its in the way of other talents) and the FIVE capstone talents are just a mess of a design for the layout of the tree. With the numbers I was seeing its very possible that you end up with only 1 capstone (Lightweaver) and rely on PoM, Dispersing Light, and Cosmic ripple to handle small aoe damage, and then use sanctify lightweaver+resonate word PoHs for heavy damage, and remain Heal/Flash Heal during downtime. The big push for Apoth means we SHOULD take answered prayers but its in such a terrible spot that it kinda seems like its not worth going for. You lose out on other goodies that are just helpful more of the time than a random 8 second buff. They need to swap answered prayers with Lightwell, and possibly make more of the talent nodes 1/1 instead of 2/2.
Holy Priest has potential to be a real winner if they can stick the landing on some of these changes. A particular pain point for me is that the bottom row contains some interesting tools, like Divine Word, but with Lightweaver being more or less mandatory it’s just too costly to get some of those tools as matters stand.
I'm so sick of Lightweaver gameplay. It isn't fun. I would rather see Lightwell heal for a little bit more. That might make it more viable, it would also pair well with Prayer of Mending/Renew builds by having greater passive healing. Also buff Prayer of Healing slightly to make it more viable. Gameplay would be to keep PoM on CD, spread renews, drop Lightwell for more passive hots, and utilize Flash Heal/Serenity for massive single target healing where necessary, and Sanctify/Prayer of Healing for filler aoe heals.
Edit - Forgot to mention - Divine Image is WAY past it's prime. It's less enjoyable than Lightweaver, does not feel impactful and needs to go IMO.
New upcomming patch and Blizzard says: Hey guys, we make the job of the most healer much more harder so u can focus on other roles
As a tank player healing felt really easy, u just chilling in the background doing the aoe hps check every 45 seconds and not much else the rest of the time. Meanwhile as a tank u blink and ure ded. Defensive down? Ded. Glad they're making healers harder to match the difficulty of tanking, if ure pussy that cant handle challenges go play dps.
I got 3 healers. Can’t nerf them all.
You call yourself a healer? I've got 6 (+1)
What about Disc going Oracle for Twinsight Penance providing Aegis shields since casts would also go on allies? And focus on Crit/Haste rather than Haste/Mastery?
I tried it and it felt really weak
@AutomaticJak not enough shields or the aegis felt too small?
the biggest fix to holy priest would be to cut all cd’s by 70% (faster cd) and 2.75x more cast speed gain from haste or cut cast times for non instant cast spells in half.. these would majorly help fix holy priest without having to overhaul dungeons to correct for blizz fkups with holy spec .. or put high(er) haste stat numbers on tier gear
I just miss 10.1 disc. Yeah, button bloat, but at least it was fun
Button bloat is a mad up concept. Having spells is part of the fucking game.
@@seikanekasinhaving to sequence 6 casts to build modifiers and ramp for damage before executing your rotation then doing your rotation is not just “having spells” it’s having TOO many spells
@@Wraghelm Having too many spells is another made up problem, Disc was never bloated in the first place.
Hey Jak, one thing you didn't talk much about are tier set except for disc. There's still time for them to change but the evoker one for example is really bad. It makes verdant embrace apply a hot but it can't even echo, shows how much thought were put into them. I think only the hpal one sounds fun with the divine toll cd reduction, I hope they rework most of them. I. I really dislike the shared 2p idea, especially for healers.
Good call! Will be experimenting w evoker in the next day or two so I’ll be sure to keep an eye on that
Yeah, Pres currently has an absurdly overtuned 4pc and going from that to one which barely does anything is a massive loss in power.
I would put evoker in the "big win" tier. Evoker utility is too good to not include in a group with zephyr probadly being the best group cooldown in high keys, aug falling out of meta and disc getting big nerfs. So the most logical step would be putting the evoker on the heal spot next season. best contenders might be druid and monk
if you think aug is falling off the meta i have bad news for u
if aug were to ever fall out of the meta, and evoker utility was THAT important, you would be more likely to take dev evoker if its damage is good (which it almost always has been, excluding the first half of this season and the very start of DF S3) because they can put source of magic on whatever healer is in the group. pres players can't put source of magic on themselves, and it is a core part of why aug is strong, plus if mistweaver/disc is meta they get more benefit from source of magic than other healers. pres would have to be VERY overtuned to be meta, sad but true
With close as clutch matches returning for aug, I don't see aug falling out of the meta.
@@SirPhilMcCrackinVonBeggington first thing i have heared from the PTR is that aug is just doing around 90% of the damage of a third DPS and that would definitly mean aug falling out of the "best meta group"
Hpally has a blizzard i.d. crisis. Casting in melee and catching puddles.
Hpal already felt really scuffed at the start of season1, it felt somewhat fun and playable (no where near top tier) with the light-smith changes halfway through the season, and now they’re nerfing it into the ground again. I really don’t want to go back to casting 😢.
Right with ya on that one, I just simply cannot comprehend Blizzard's unyielding need to continuously boop Holy Pally in the head with nerfs, especially to a well received playstyle. I get that there's a group that loves caster paladin and their opinions are valid, but why can't the Holy Pally dev create a tree that caters to two differ playstyles like MW monk? Now terrible changes to disc....There's already a healer shortage and now it's gonna propagate that even more. Blizz also said they were trying to reduce the amount of burst healing for this season at the beginning of the expansion and that never happened lol.
@@Soulmatic25 there's still more healers than tanks cuz the role is not that hard
@@kerkertrandov459 I play all three roles and play 7 different classes, tank and healers are both in shortage. What point are you trying to make other than being toxic?
@@Soulmatic25 that making healers harder isnt a bad thing as it will match tank difficulty. Healers and tanks arent meant to be easy, go play dps if u wanna afk press same 5 button over and over
@@kerkertrandov459 If you're struggling as a tank, maybe try playing a different role instead? As a tank you need to know dungeon route, percentage of mobs, tank busters, and positioning. It's a thankless role, without a doubt, but it's not difficult at all with the right knowledge. Can faceroll as a blood DK or Prot pally, shrugs.
Aug really hasn't been "nerfed". Its an overall dps buff with barely any healing loss from the data I've seen.
No longer buffing the healer w ebon might is huge for healers. Damage numbers can always change but not buffing a healer is incredibly impactful for us
@@AutomaticJak I agree with this as I already struggle sometimes to justify taking aug to certain keys like Mists. If a dps dies on mistcaller the aug just feels bad cause all the bosses in mist need pure dps to force phase change or else it's a brick. The aug can make people a little tankier for like a few problem things but most of these things up to 15 where around I try to play you don't really need an aug, what you need is for the clone to die faster. In 16 supposedly you start to need an aug and big healer damage to push but I haven't gotten there yet, but def harder for me to imagine justifying aug that isn't at least making me and the tank *also* do more damage and healing, because that's actually pretty helpful. and plus I think some teams pushing like 17 or so have done it without an aug, so if I don't need an aug hypothetically to time keys, and the aug isn't helpful for these single target dps checks that brick keys, and the aug doesn't buff me and the tank, then why would I take the aug except to a place like stonevault? Wouldn't spriest with PI and off healing and stuff be better? It could be ig since skill matters more than spec but I pug mostly so it's a tough decision.
people saying pres is improving at the start of every major patch is a cope every single time XD
Short range, conical reticule for DB, and VE reverse gripping you… all too risky in a Challenger’s peril meta. Not even to mention the aug effect.
Pres is good tho? So I don't get what you are trying to say here.
To be clear, in a casual pug environment (M+ 8-12) I don’t like playing pres, and I don’t like have pres in my group.
It always seems like hunters or mages or ele will get randomly dropped. Bc they are outside of range (1st boss in Ara is a good example). And while I don’t think that’s the fault of the pres, these kinds of issues don’t exist for other healers.
Also, it seems to be a harder spec to pick up and play as an alt/offspec. Not super relevant, tbh, bc it’s true for all healers to a certain extent. And any Pres with normal ilvl and io is gonna know how to play their class. But I’ve seen newbie Pres (including myself at the start of every season) really struggle with CD management, and even proper execution of the CD. I would compare Avenging Crusader and Chi-Ji to Stasis. They all have kinda the same CD. But the melee ones are way easier to execute as a first time to the spec. Even though Stasis is the coolest and most fun and versatile healer CD it requires you to understand your class and incoming damage/healing profiles in a way that other classes don’t and instead can just muscle through with kicks and crusader strikes.
Lastly, RIP all Pres who die VEing a target in a frontal/swirlie.
Therefore, imo, I think Pres is, on average, a bad choice in fully pugged 8-12 keys. Not bc the spec is bad/underpowered/unfun but bc the game system is essentially working against the playstyle.
Except it isn't. It is in fact improving.
Tbf, werent they giga overtuned at the start of last patch???
for your next tier list you should use the boom meter
Hpal is being pushed in a direction that feels similar to Dragon flight Season 3/4. Mana issues and casting to generate holy power and conserve mana doesn't seem so far off again especially with herald. Tested my hpal on healing dummies it took me just over 4mins to oom myself going all out with healing spenders can't wait :) Maybe I just need more mp5 kekw
i love my chrono pres evoker hope it is a bit more competitive in m+, really dont want to aug
Great, they've just raised the price of the sub in OCE but nerfed my spec... Not sure it's worth even paying anymore at this point.
Hpala on live is in its worst state since M+ got introduced into the game. In top 5000 M+ runs, hpala is the only spec not showing up ONCE, and for good reason too. So what does Blizz do? Nerfs it, and forces hpala out of its final frontier - melee. Guess Elle won't be swapping back to holy for 11.1 kek
Ffs i just finished leveling my priest -_-
Jak taking tips from Linus in doing segways lol
im tryin!
My holy paladin is becoming a holy shit :(
haha that "yayyy" wraps up my thoughts on hpal this season. yeahhh.. rn you try casting flash of light more than once as filler while your other more impactful buttons are down and someone's probably dying. although they both feel like they do so little id rather hit holy light than flash of light. its a good move buffing them, being required to be in melee all the time is not fun especially when you want to not be in melee and still heal.
Holy Paladin Main here. 2600 I.O. I am very sad blizzard keeps doing this crap, Look I get it... a group of HP don't want to play AC build and want a more caster oriented build. Rather than Nerfing AC they should just buff Herold and make that the "Caster" build if people feel they like that play style better! This would be the perfect opportunity for them to separate what both play styles with the hero talents!
I am a ride or die Holy Paladin so despite these nerfs I will still be playing it next season, but man is it gonna feel bad trying to get into pugs. Right now I am 638 Ilvl that still gets passed sometimes for "Meta" healers, even if they are lower than me and have less Rating than me. Feels Bad.
Good players realize that specs are just the means to an end and will reroll to whatever is good. Don't be stuck to a bad spec, be open-minded.
@@kerkertrandov459 On that same note a good player can perform well regardless of what spec they are playing. All specs are viable in content that 99.9% of the playerbase is capable of playing. Realistically in the vast majority of content, it doesn't matter.
More often than not I see bad players constantly hopping from meta character to meta character barely knowing how to play them, just copy pasting some Icy Veins talent build because a RUclips video said x spec does the best damage and then they end up having sub-par performance. I think it's better to have a handful of classes you intimately understand.
Holy paladin is in a weird spot being a melee class. I don't bring hpals because I play with another melee spec and if you only have 1 ranged in the group it can make some keys way harder than they should like ara kara
2600 io Hpal here with a sub 630 ilevel. I will never play AC build, I can’t stand smart heals. But also, Ellesmere, the literal #1 Hpal in the world has cleared +15s as Herald because he prefers it, so Herald isn’t really bad to begin with. Personally, I love the agency to decide where my heals are going, so even if Herald were the literal worst spec in the game, I’d still play it, and likely get 2500+ fairly easily.
Holy light as paladin feels good to cast, but only the quick one buffed by holy prism, not the normal ones, even in bfa where we had the strong infusion that buffed crit on flash of light, casting those fast and quick spells always felt good in between holy shocks, I wish we went back to that kind of weaving in between, if they want paladins to cast.
So tired of Blizzard pushing caster hpal. It just doesn't work in melee
I m generally bored with Activision Microsoft as well brother
my bdk has timed nearly every 12 and is rank 60 on my server where my paladin has timed a Single 12 (NW) and is now rank 49. anything would be better than what hpal is now. for the class to even feel playable in 12s you had to get a bunch of the haste gear out of the raid.
This tier list is just speculations nothing is tested at the point to mark what is the best tier list, unless there is enough data test and logs, could be so different.
It is a first impressions vid and I'll be updating!
@@AutomaticJak I know, but the issue is now in discord channels from healers they are thinking this is going to be, and I know is their fault how to interpret that, but also I think you should say that at least in the preview picture of the image...
How do u get the ground to look so bright in your dungeons?
Stinky bright potion, its the opposite effect of the inky black potion from the dmf. Its on the AH
@@johnthebarbarianty
like you said PTR is not open when recored this but testing holy priest in PTR m+ feels good healing pumping and stuff butt its still holy just like Rdruid just healing pumper
Rdruid has lots of utility, aoe roots, cyclones, typhoons, incap roar, aoe ms buff, stun, sleep, soothe etc. All priest has is a shitty fear. Rdruid is def not a pumper.
I’m really sad to see that blizzard just doesn’t understand what makes disc work how weird these changes are
No its simple, disc was meta so now he needs to not be meta cuz people are tired of it. Just wondering why isnt prot pala getting the same treatment.
Share your sentiments with Holy Pally completely. AC getting neutered feels awful, and caster melee healer is not the right direction for the spec. I enjoy both Herald and Lightsmith equally, and hope that tuning keeps them relevant. Getting flashbacks to S2->S3 Dragonflight with how they handled Hpal, except this time Hpal was not Overpowered.
I switched to Holy Priest in anticipation of 11.1 and I actually like it to be honest
Oracle Disc, big fat F_! Managed to kill 6/8M playing Oracle Disc. Havent tried it on Silken yet, but oh boy it's over now unless something is going to chance.
Thanks for video, like always.
29k mistweaver n unless I'm running my own key it's like impossible to get into a pug. Hopefully that changes next session
I want to see Jak play Classic HC healer and see how he does
Prob like seeing a racecar driver in ordinary trafick with an ordinary car. Prob gonna be fine
Blizzard workflow : rework a spec until the gameplay if finally fun and fluid. Let ppl enjoy that spec for 3 months. Destroy all that work for some reason cause you hate when ppl have fun playing your game
Holy Priest belong in the "L" catagory. So far, PoH is far too weak (plus too mana costly), it's not viable. Renew is far too weak, it's not viable. In a M+ enviornment, we still lack AOE healing, defensives, an interrupt, mobilty. All of the same issues we currently have. The bottom of the tree...too many good options but not enough points to take them all, it's a mess! Disc will still be the better choice in a M+ envoirnment over Holy by far! As far as raids....they removed Salv!
Big thing keeping holy up is how strong their holy words are. It’s really insane rn. Agree w your pts about renew and Poh tho
@@AutomaticJak I did notice that our holy words have improved, especially sanctify which is great but you alluded in other videos to them potentially getting nerfed so I am worried to it'll get nerfed plus I thought they were really aiming to make PoH and Renew strong for us which it's completely flopped so far. Overall disappointed with the changes for Holy and fear we will still be the worst healer out there for keys in season 2.
I loved holy priest in Legion, especially Nighthold and Tomb of Sargeras raid eras. Wish they'd just return it to those tunings maybe
@@PyroFortune I agree! Heck, even S4 DF was great imo. Big problem is, dungeons arent like they used to be. Now, it's all about getting through heavy bursts of party wide AOE damage every pull and constantly needing to move around. This expansion has been the worst I have ever experienced as an Hpriest main since Vanilla. We are still in dire need of help! Guess it's time to reroll monk.....
I LOVE your golden retriever energy. Not derogatory AT ALL. So cute!! Also great vids and info, haha.
I still don't get it why even touch disc priest, it was fun to play and performing well, like ... WHY
because it was performing well that's the reason, anything fun Activision destroys it
I think I’m in the minority here and maybe heavily healer-brain poisoned. But I think the way the different specs manage mana is really cool and gives you a metric to progress against yourself.
Like as Rsham I find it fun to try to maximize the most out of buffs and throughput and not overheal etc to have enough mana. And then drinking water in my rain totem feels very thematic LMAO.
I also love casually slow walking and drinking my mana tea as the fire mage explodes in flames, the UH dk is going insane and the Aug is blasting off.
And Hpal is cool to rotate through the seasons and then blowing a buncha mana through virtue and WoGs and being able to conserve a lot of mana by rotating through AC and awakening.
Deride me all you want. :P I know it’s niche and DPS and tanks hate waiting for me to drink, but I have my water keybound and i encourage the tank to keep pulling and not wait for me. (I try to be ahead of the pull, close to the next one anyway).
I also understand that just because I like the mechanic. Doesn’t mean that it’s good. Or even that it’s good for the game and meta. Hahahah
Your post for sure has got to be bait. Homogenize mana either all healers have to drink/deal with mana issues or none of them do so fking boring not being able to play virtue on mythic progress bosses that take longer than a couple of minutes, same goes for m+ why can i run an entire key on my rsham alt (which has more utility, better damage and bloodlust PLUS windfury/mastery group buff and not go oom, but my paladin has to run into all these arbitrary walls?
What part about this is "fun" class/game design? It's not unique, it's annoying, you're for sure in the minority with this god awful take.
@@Gongshown yeah I don’t raid, so i don’t have any opinion on that aspect. Hpal is also my most recent alt and I only do casual 8’s and 10s so it’s not like it’s been an overwhelming burden for me personally. Plus I think timing the seasons buff is a pretty cool vibe and trying to get the most out of a nearly depleted mana bar. I agree it’s not’s “good” gameplay. But I find it fun.
It’s not bait. Some people just enjoy the game differently. :) 🤗 Although I do agree that they should standardize the mana management like you said. That is a good idea for getting more ppl to heal.
for sure you are the minority or blizzard Activision employee
@@KennyFalmouth506 let’s be real blizzard employees don’t watch Jak! 😜 the state of the game would be much better if they did!
Rage bait brain rot hot garbage take
Gotta keep the disc gameplay awkward at all times.
Its sad how Blizzard has given up with the most difficult healer to play, poor melee Paladin :(
Favorite healer on Top, lets gooooo!!!!!!🎉🎉🎉🎉
Think you’ve said this before but the game playing simply isn’t that much fun any more and these updates are not changing that
What does L stand for ?
middle finger gesture
not shedding any tears for hpal man, spec plays without raid frames this tier you just send damage and heal by accident
Hpal has been non stop horrible to play since its rework in DF S2. Then in beta they reworked the spec YET ANOTHER TIME and it didn't even got to live until it was dismantled once again. On 11.0.5 got unintended buffs and enabled AC/LS that while not perfect, was fun and a bit of fresh air since Herald sucks now, and of course they had to kill AC anytime is remotely relevant. Why not deleted it at this point?
Both hero specs are awful and unfun to play now. 2 Failed reworks in 4 seasons, blizz is peaking here. They just don't know what to do with the spec.
Just play another spec stop malding
@@kerkertrandov459 I literally play all healers except for Holy priest. No other healer had 2 reworks in 4 seasons and still feels terribly designed, except for maybe disc joining the ranks next season.
You said Holy and Disc Priest were gutted in S1 and look now at Disc ? lol This is just the beginning of the PTR cycle so I guess good time for engagement farming
Disc was really bad in beta and only got good after they massively buffed its healing output at the start of the xpac :) I made videos covering the rise of disc and everything
Holy is currently one of the worst healers in S1
Can we bloody fire the person that is pushing for Hpala becoming a caster class. We are at this circle for multiple expansions now. It is made into a caster, nobody likes it, avenging wrath is brought back. People are happy, blizzard in their infinite wisdom come back to the casting that nobody likes.
WHY. LIKE. WHY?
I don't even use shadow covenant, so no skin off my nose.
This might sound like a hot take, but I don't think that there should be any melee healers
I feel that beacon should be stronger on 5 man, so you're not pigeon holed into using the beacon of virtue. Sort of like the disc fix. It's kind of simple really... If the double beacon can safely keep 2 dps up the hardcasting Hpal will be A-tier.
Holy priest aoe could get a 200% increase and still be bad.
MW MONK STONKS
Melee healer omegalul
@@kerkertrandov459 Melee healers are just better at the game cause we don't have the crutch of being in caster range haha
@@bun5118 as they say, work smarter not harder, there's no reason to be in melee if u can be at range, it's much safer
I Love mw and play it every season, regardless of bad or good, but I'm scared of what their doing to it. I absolutely love the changes, but I have a feeling that the nerf hammer will destroy all the goo work they did. The lightening change is good, but wasaaay too strong as well as master of harmony dmg. I just hope they nerf the right things and don't ice us the hpal season 2 experience.
Edit: I also hope that they kinda keep the throughput, because that's all that mw has. The phys dmg buff is way to weak (and also enforces ways more restricted comps) as well as their utility. Once mw doesn't hit the throughput requirements anymore, they are completely dead in keys
clicked literally just to find out if mistweaver was good or not. ty
all the meta did was shift to MW it would appear - Watching people heal +12 like they were +2's. We'll see how blizz ajusts.
holy priest =heal and fast heal. only
I don’t see Aug going anywhere. They have a lot of utility still, their personal dmg is going up, they’re buffing dps more. If stuff dies quicker is never a bad thing for tanks/dps
Finally decided to pick up a healer a few weeks go since the last time i healed in shadowlands because it was fun leveling as disc only for it to get made unfun in the next patch, gotta love blizzard
watching this as a disc/hpal player ...
Just giving up on hpal this season. The fact this spec has and is getting nerfed still, is unbelievable. Spec is unplayable. Blizz hates paladin players
blizz hates everyone
It's painfully obvious not a single person at Blizzard plays Holy Paladin.
Ever since they removed Holy Infusion like 2 weeks before TWW launch (for some stupid reason) it feels like Holy Paladin's identity just keeps taking hits. Do they even want us to be a melee healer??? What was the point of all the changes they made in beta? Why backtrack on them all throughout all of the 11.0.x patches??? I don't understand this dev team they drive me crazy!!!
Why do they keep messing with our casted heals? You wanna know the core of the problem? When these devs decided HURR LET'S CHANGE HOW INFUSION OF LIGHT WORKS and Holy Light has been terrible ever since. I hate Divine Favor it's such a terrible talent. It's just a bs band-aid fix to kind of sort of give us our old infusion back, but here's a genius idea for you Blizzard: How about you swallow your pride and just give us our fast casted Holy Lights back whenever we get infusion??? Congrats! I just fixed 35% of the spec's issues!
It has been YEARS and this spec is still suffering from very similar problems it has multiple expansions ago. This is ridiculous!!!
They make mist better so we all forget brew is a thing
They keep hiring these game development major students with 2.3 GPA and we just cant win anymore as players of this game
I like caster paladin okay. The 4pc bonus is going to be really great, probably too strong, and I just know they'll address it by nerfing Holy Shock rather than adjusting the bonus. 😕
Wtb Soothing Mist to pulse aoe damage on the target lmao
Aug is still buffing healers and tanks with shifting sands versatility buff.
Im so happy that Lightsmith gets nerfed. "Meta" on Hpal is broken and Herald of the Sun will be more welcome pugs. Herald feels better anyways (In my opinion at least), just the throughput is lower than lightsmith on current patch.
Meh I came around to lightsmith and found it quite fun. Now we're just gonna be more mid in 11.1. So grats
Tried HPala, DiscPriest, Shaman and now MW Monk... yet none fo these are doin' i for me except Druid, gonna stick to the main. I don't think i'm gonna reroll at all, for all ptches are to come. Played HPala in Pandaria and Daza-Alor but yea... now the class feels like a meele-healer and the the spells are healing litteraly 0 except if you go into meele with wings.... but yeah, ain't nobody got time fo dat~
I'm all up for these changes, its nice to see more classes getting a bit better to have more than just 1-2 healing types in high keys
Sad to lose AG as resto sham, the only real chance when you can pump damage comfortable. Without it and no change to our damage we'll be the absolute bottom of dps for season 2 I guess.. (I play far seer)