Jumbo-Visma Comes Together for Sepp Kuss | Vuelta a España 2023 Stage 20 | THEMOVE+
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- Опубликовано: 27 сен 2024
- Spencer and Johan discuss if Jumbo-Visma, and in particular Primož Roglič, sealing Sepp Kuss’ overall Vuelta win with a clear display of teamwork on Stage 20 has successfully cooled the debate around the team’s infighting before breaking down how Wout Poels leveraged impressive tactics, and strength, to beat Remco Evenepoel for the stage win.
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You were a great combo Spencer and Johan, love listening to your commentary. I could listen Johan talk about cycling all day, a legend
Johan is fabulous.
Johan admitting they probably speculated too much. What a boss..! He just earned my respect big time.
Yes, and at the end of the day the fact that Kuss managed to hold on to the red jersey on Angliru will make his win that much sweeter.
Thanks guys for the commentary, was a fun Vuelta.
The video of the Sepp, Primoz and Jonas crossing the line together was such an image of teamwork and comradery, and it was the right thing too. This new Move+ broadcast is a great way to keep up with the intricacies of bicycle racing. Hats off to Johan and Spencer!
Yes, Sepp Kuss is the unintended and accidental leader of the Vuelta bu the man did 3 grand tours in a single season. Mind = Blown.
and before the year before he did the last two, so five in a row.... chapeau what a rider!!!!
Yes. Sepp. See you in the douches
Spencer, you came out of nowhere and you and Johan are the best analysis and listening to for bike racing that I've ever heard, thank you guys so much!
The turning point for me after his breakout on stage 6 was the Individual Time Trial. When Sepp turned in a great time trial, he let everyone know he was ready to challenge for the red jersey. Usually, he would have saved himself for the mountains, but he must have gotten the green light to ride to his potential. Congratulations to Sepp!
That's when he won. He held that jersey all the way through... He had no gift, he's the gift....
ayuso has a fantastic future ahead of him, he’s 21 and he’s a warrior… we will see him on TDF podium some day 😊
@@larshansen4557no chance
Sure! But don't foget that Pogacar and Vingegaard arr ony 25 and 26 years old!
@@larshansen4557 Maybe.... but only if Tardej or Jonas isn't there though... (If they of cause don't hand it away to a team mate.)
@@dennisdevelin why i said podium 😉
Okay, then lets hope for him that Kuss and roglic also not there then.. 😉😉
Incredible race, incredible season. We may never see a team like this again.
Best commentary in cycling. Thanks to both Spencer and Johan. 👍
What a roller coaster this grand tour has been!
I wish they called the races.
Your coverage is truly worthy of a major tv network.....great analysis......commentary.....you guys win the GC....one, two three, podium...
Three tours...three wins...three winners...three mates on the final podium...three cheers for the team that, in the end, epitomizes the definition of team!!! (With all respect to rest of the team that supported them all the way...covering for the best domestique in the peloton is no easy task.)
Here's a comp for Sepp- Geraint Thomas did all that work for Froome for all those Tour wins as a super domestique. Then Froome had his accident and G became a primary GC rider, and won a Tour.
That was a very emotional tour, haha, everyone off their rocker. In the end I am glad you guys restored some level-headedness to the commentary. Hats off to Jumbo, a masterclass, was beautiful to watch in its way.
Incredibly sweet watching Jonas and Primoz crossing the finish line today with their arms around Sepp ❤🥲
I also appreciate Primoz being completely transparent yesterday, and, ultimately, the way he rode today demonstrates you can be frustrated and still wholeheartedly celebrate your friend and teammates.
Kudos to TJV!
Congratulations Sepp!!!
A comment we all needed. It is indeed not only possible to harbor two conflicting feelings, but this is actually what makes us human.
@@bojandolinar1535 verklempt watching the three of them today, extra special was the pure joy from Primoz’s smile throughout the whole stage and radiating even more emotion in the green room and podium. Jonas looked so calm and relaxed during the Team presentation. A beautiful exciting Vuelta, kudos TJV, Sepp Primoz and Jonas 🏆❤️🥲🚵♀️🍾🥂
So glad you guys gave us the Move+ for this Vuelta. The combo of Spencer and Johan is incredible and informative. Give us more!
The more The Move the merrier! Agreed.
Yea, you guys are pretty awsome..😊
What a beautiful stage…and a beautiful ending for such a great guy…kudos to Sepp and his two “super” domestiques …..👍🏽👏🏾👍🏽
I'm shocked that no commentator or race analyst has picked this up but if you watch the beginning of the sprint Poels waits until Remco looks behind to check where he is and only starts to go just as he turns his head back to the front. I believe that if Remco has reacted a ms earlier then he'd have taken Poel before the line. It was genius and a lesson for every lesser sprinter in a one on one battle. Maybe it wasn't mentioned because it is what they track cyclist does, maybe every road cyclist, but you see so many of the riders fail to get a good enough jump coming from the back to make it stick that it was refreshing to see someone pull it off to perfection, and especially because it was Poels, who everyone must see had had a great Vuelta in the service of his team leader.
If you watch the coverage, when Sepp was hugging his family someone said "Are you glad it's over" Sepp replied "Yes, never again".. .
I believe his Wife said congratulations, please don't ever do this to me again.
I thing the stress that it brought was quite too much.🎉
@@Tilemason1either way, it's not the life he seems to want. He's paid big money to do what he enjoys.
@@mgoo1713 that's how I see it, good for him. ❣️
I think JV and PR are so good they know they will have more good opportunities in future GTs, but are understandably very competitive, and it's not surprising they would bridle a bit in this situation.
I’m sure Froome and Bernal had exactly the same thoughts
Jeebus, what this Vuelta has shown is that there are many drama queens in the world. I always said let's wait till stage 21 before we judge Jumbo Visma. 60 wins till now, 3 grand tours a 1/2/3 sweep. Guys they know what they are doing. You don't get from worst world tour team to the best team if your organisation is full of knuckleheads.
Well said! Totally agree.
Great commentary for this Vuelta, thanks guys. Johan correctly called it early on when he said this was going to be a great year for TJV. Great to see Sepp get such a great win for himself. He has to be the most super domestique since -- since -- can't remember the guy's name. He comes from Queens.
Roberto Heras is from Queens?
Georgie's from Farmingdale,LI@@brippie
Thank you Johan! Such valuable insight🙌
The Move + is exceptional! Fun Vuelta this year! Congrats Sepp!
Congrets❤ sepp kus from 🇩🇰❤.its very Good For american Cycling ❤
Thumbs up to Johan for coming clear on making a mistake! Think he talked to someone in the team and knows Vingegaard clearly said to the team he wanted Kuss to win after week 2 even if Vingegaard easily could have won for himself if that was his game plan.
Kudos guys for acknowledging that perhaps you over analyzed and over reacted to the Jumbo tactics.
Great coverage of this Vuelta, thanks Johan, and Spencer.
I can imagine Kuss riding the Giro as the GC leader for Jumbo Visma, but they will also bring Kooij with a sprint train.
Another great episode!!! Thanks, Spencer and Johan! Hope you’ll be back soon.
We have to give JV big kudos. It's natural that Primoz was upset. And the media tried to read too much of what he said yesterday. Primoz and Jonas genuinely are happy with Kuss's win. I never saw Primoz as a huge ego rider. Maybe JV wants to see if Kuss can be a GC option moving forward. What better way to see how he can fend off an attack in a friendly and safe environment. Who knows?
Anyway, all this talk about who's the leader of the team is just us trying to read too much of what's not there. Just stirring up some controversy. I don't see JV like Sky/Ineos with it's Bernal's team or Thomas or Froome or Wiggins, or Contador vs. Lance team. If the management can say we support Kuss, I don't see any reason why they can't say - we'll support Primoz for 2024 TDF along with Jonas, to give him a chance to complete what's missing in his palmares. So I will be shocked if Primoz leaves JV. But time will tell.
And here's the quote from Jonas:
…“And for sure if you want to do well, this is one of the great teams to be in.”
IMO Primoz has a better chance to stay with JV than move to another team. I'm sure Primoz knows it.
For next year, UAE has strengthened its team. Adam seems to have flourished since his arrival. Sivakov's arrival as someone with a position to rival Kuss's position or even 3rd option for GC. I would be curious if JV put their eggs solely in Jonas's basket next year.
Chapeau to Poehls. I was happy he won it. He might be old, but what a display of brain vs. brawn.
It sounded like his wife said, ‘don’t ever do that to me again’ and Sepp said, ‘no never again.’
When all said and done, i´m still glad to follow this PC, even though i sometimes disagree. The interest u have for the sport and the knowledge too, made a good mix of insight and subjective thoughts. From a Danish prospective, ts has been a great year for Danish Cycling, and for me it´s also has been fun and interesting, to get your guys views on races through out the season. Thx for taking your time. Cheers from Denmark.
Fantastic to enjoy finer points of Vuelta with you! Spencer and Johan on Outcomes! Woot Woot 💙
Three Grand Tours with three different winners, but this time it was the only guy who did all three... Awesome, Kuss.
All angry reactions were premature 😂
And don’t forget, Jumbo was winning other races while the Tour de Spain was going on. Amazing!
Great post analysis. Johan has a great analytical mind for racing. Remco made a split second mistake going into the last corner today by being in front of Poels. But he immediately jumped when he realized the move. Kudos to both for an exciting finish.
I've never seen anything like this finish before.
Sepp's "victory" here will always have an * after it in the mental books.
To me this was the first GT that was won by internet commentators.
Great episode. Very smart.
First of all I think it is proper to congratulate JUMBO VISMO. This sport is all about making myths, history and victories for the record books and this we most say that Jumbo did The first team ever to take all 3 GTs in same season and than with 3 different raiders and then just to put the nail in the coffin ending with taking the podium in the Vuelta in what will be known as the best team season in history.. And I have to honor the move to admit that you went overboard with emotions after stage 17. For that I salute u. Jumbo did the right thing to back Kuss up(Jonas did all along). and so did you admitting your were wrong. Thx for that, I really think that the world went crazy and went for Jonas and Roglic without knowing what really went on. I respect Jonas for backing KUSS up and I salute Roglic for being a racer who wants to win and that's what his team management told him to do and pay him for and that's what he did. Shame on all of the haters of Jonas and Roglic. People also forgot that this have never happened in history before so I think everybody was a little confused about the whole situation. Though I personally think that it would have been the right thing to let the 3 of them race each other and let the strongest win. Well I am danish and a big Jonas fan of course, so I would have loved him to win the tour Vuelta double as only the 4th raider in history to do that(if I remember correct), and of course next year try to do again to be the first one ever to do it twice. For the future legacy of the great champions Roglic, Kuss and Jonas, I really hope that Roglic will move to ineos so we can have a tour battle between the 3 best GT raiders in the world next year, with extremely talented Remco as an outsider. So 4 teams with 4 super strong raiders against each other tour 24 would be great for all who loves pro cycling. Kuss has to find out if he wants to stay as a helper to Jonas who should go after history and records. If I was Jonas agent I would ask the Jumbo management to back Jonas up trying to become one of the Goats of GTs. Jonas has shown in this Vuelta that he has the ability to win the tour and the Vuelta in one year which means that he has a realistic chance at getting between 8-12 grand tour victories and become one of the all time goats of GT racing. You can only get to those numbers if you can win 2 GTs a season. It is seldom that a raider comes along who has the potential to compete against angetill, mercxk and Bernard H. I am not saying he will do it, a lot has to work his way and some luck too. So of course they have to try and make this a reality or they are nuts. So if Roglic wants more than the giro the next 2 years, he will have to move to another team and the same goes for Sepp. American media already speculating that Kuss and Jonas goes as joint leaders for the next Tour de France. It's crazy how Jonas is constantly being underestimated. He is by far the best GT raider in the world right now. Smashing Tadaj with over 7 minutes in the tour. Now 2nd in the Vuelta in the same year(one he probably could have won if they were allowed and wanted to). Had any other person than Jonas done this, (especially from the big nations)which is the most dominant anybody has been since Froome the world would have praised this raider and that the team should do everything to try to break records and make history. But for some strange reason, nobody in the international press is doing this, which in my world is very strange. He definitely has the potential and talent to make history and this is what Jumbo should try to accomplish over the next 5-6 years with Jonas as the 100% captain on the team. Plus IF KUSS and ROGLIC moves to other teams it will be more equal competition for everybody and more interesting for us spectators. But congrats to Jumbo And KUSS. What a fairytale win for Kuss and what a season for the greatest GT team in history.
*sp- rider 😂
That said, i think you are too much Team Jonas though you are right he is absolutely the strongest rider right now. However, Jonas’ talent only can get him so far individually and it helps that his team is stacked. 😂 Of course, if Tadej had the same stacked team…their could be a healthy debate as to if Tadej would be equal or better? One thing for sure is when you have a strong team such as Jumbo…it makes for far less work for Jonas as oppose to efforts of Tadej or Remco, whom have weaker teams. Make no mistake…the Jumbo train is the team to beat but i also want to recognize that…as Johan says 😂…this is not playstation. Any of these riders, Tadej or Remco, can have bad days especially since they are having to do more of the work themselves as oppose to any of the leaders on Jumbo. However, I agree with you that Jonas should be the captain for le tour but i think Kuss has been very valuable to Jumbo and dare i say more valuable now. I am also in agreement that Roglic should go to a team that will give him another shot at le tour. For sure as a spectator, that would be fantastic but Roglic…like it or not is not getting any younger so u could see his motive to attack especially since he prepared the way he did for the Vuelta. Jonas and Roglic are hired by the team to be killers. Cant blame them for doing what they do even with all the nonsense that happened. However, both had the opportunity to give Sepp some luv for being a loyal lieutenant that definitely contributed to Jonas’ and Roglic’s many wins. Sepp was positioned right early on and had the best TT of his life but does not have that killer mentality like Jonas or Roglic, lets be real here. One thing for sure is that Sepp makes Jumbo stronger in regards to other opposing riders having to keep honest now by Sepp’s performance. 👍😃
Yes Jonas proved he was completely capable of winning this second tour for the year, and beating Sepp, and I think could beat Sepp if he didn't have team loyalty. I don't blame Jonas for riding away in Stage 16, Jonas did his job in Stage 16 even though that threatened Sepp's Vuelta win. There would be time to support Sepp after Stage 16. \
I also excuse Jonas following Roglic and abandoning Sepp at end of Stage 17, which I think Jonas might have sensed Jonas needed to do just to make sure that if Sepp failed, Jonas not Roglic should get the Vuelta win. As long as Jonas did the right thing in Stages 18 and 20, which he did, Jonas could be excused for Stage 17.
Too bad that Jonas did not do in Stage 17 the best thing Jonas could have done to prove his Vuelta superiority: to trust in Sepp, let Roglic go, ease up a little for Sepp and then work with Sepp to catch Roglic or keep Roglic close enough. The way Sepp worked with Landa was not something that would surprise Jonas, so why not gamble on working with Sepp himself.
(What Roglic did was complicated to judge, but whether he chose to support Sepp after stage 17 or was forced to against his will, after stage 16 Roglic must have known that Sepp or Jonas would win the Vuelta, not Roglic, so Roglic supporting Sepp after Stage 17 was inevitable.)
@@adrianwood06 of course I'm biased as I'm danish and a Hugh fan of Jonas. But let's look at the facts. What we really know and no speculations. No matter how good a team you have, you have to climb those high altitude mountains yourself, no wind breaker here. Same to say about ITT. No team help and the GTs get decided in the mountains and on ITTs. Jonas has the 2nd highest vo2max on 97 ever recorded cross all elite athletes. Tadaj is in my opinion the best all-round raider in the world and should try to focus mainly on the tour, so we once and for all can see if he can beat Jonas. I don't think he will. He has a problem with consistency, high altitude mountain stages and warm weather conditions and not even a strong team can help him with that. If u look at GTs that Jonas has raced as a captain. From mid way Tour de France 21, he has not cracked once. Not once has a team mate had to slow down and help him up a mountain, not once has he been dropped severely. The most he has lost is 21 sec to Pog in the tour 23 . And no team mates were there to help him.. Not once when he got dropped did he get help to close the gap. He did it himself. The only time u can say he has had help with a set back is the couples stage tour 22, where WWA saved Jonas for a setback due to a puncture. and of course the team helping him when he punctured on stage 1 Vuelta TTT. Of course it helps to have a strong time with attacking so your opposition get tied, like tour stage 13 cranon, where ROGlic and Jonas attacked POG over and over again. One of the best stages in history in my opinion. Which led to Pog to crack. But facts are that Remco, Roglic and POG cracks once in a while. And Jonas don't. When the others go down to 90-93% in week 3, Jonas only drops to 95-97%, (these numbers I have from their Watts/kg numbers)which is what makes him superior to the others no matter what team you have. to be continued
@@adrianwood06 I really do think the argument that Jonas has a much better team does not apply to the tour 23, several times it was POGI, who had teammates around him at the final climb(majka) and not Jonas.Obviously he did in tour 22 and Vuelta 23. I do not agree that Jonas has a killer instinct like ROGLIC. That is Jonas biggest weakness. He is too nice and humble. BUT he is by far the most consistent and strongest rider in a 3 week GT race and that is my point. When people and experts talk about the possibility of Remco winning the Tour. Most people says that he is not on the level of Jonas and POGI. How the hell is Pogi compared to Jonas. Jonas did not beat him, he smashed him, he destroyed POGI in tour 23 with over 7 1/2 minutes with top 10 over 20 minutes behind. Not really a comparison when u look at the clock and final result of the last 2 tours. Even the last 3 tours in the 3rd week. This is my point. IF Jonas was from a big country with a media pron personality, he would have been praised as the new Merxk/lance in GT races. But F..k now we have to hear that KUSS should have the Vuelta, Roglic the Giro and Jonas should be satisfied with the tour. This is absolute bullshit. When u have the best GT raider on your hands, who has shown that he is capable of winning 2 GTs a year, then you should go all inn on trying to beat records and make him the sole captain of the team. If it had been ROG, POGI or Remco with those numbers and results, we would have heard about nothing else and that is a fact.
Enjoyed your coverage this Vuelta! Nice work!
Thank for the coverage guys. Well done, please keep it up!
#Sepptember!!!!
So happy for Walt Pouls...im fact the whole Bahrain team was awesome in last week.
Finally - after Johan has received inside knowledge from team JV - an admission that the hetz against Jonas from The Move has been wrong, untruthful and, moreover, contrary to what Jonas himself has stated to the media since the rest day. The conclusion - that it is The Move that has acted untrustworthy and not Jonas, who alone, as a double winner of the Tour de France, insisted on 2 stage victories and that Roclic did not run away with the victory
By the way - Armstrong would not in a million years have don that
By the way - Armstrong would not in a million years have don that
Thank you. I said 4 days ago that jonas wanted kuss to win. He stated it several time in interviews and they showcased it.
Thanks again for a great show!!
Love these episodes!!!
When the commentary should have been about an amazing team holding positions 1,2,3 on the gc plus the top team it was made to be about negative stuff that didn’t exist. Well done TJV awesome team, a band of brothers working together in a fiercely competitive field.
Great show as always....
Please Johan, ask Lance how he would've felt if he were on Roglic position having either George or Chechu on yellow in front of him.
......and BIG time congratz to Seb.
Jumbo doesn't have a sponsor for next year so letting an American win makes sense if they want financial help from the USA... Also the tactics are already set before the race but with Sepp taking a 6 Min lead after stage 6 I think they weren't in a situation like this before... If like to think they would let Sepp win as long as he could keep red from the beginning...Kuss won it from his performance in time trial... This is years of hard work paying off for them now... Congratulation.
Its pretty certain they do have a new sponsor but are not announcing it until year end - methinks its the Saudi's
Great episode
Sepp won the race because the red jersey gave him wings in the time trial. Nobody expected him to perform there as well as he did.
Johan jij bent de inspiratie van de Jumbo gedachte laatste daagjes..groetjes van Remco..eindelijk een trotse naamgenoot van moj😊
For the first time ever in the last year I’m so proud to be an American !!!
TJV will always do the right thing after exhausting all other options…
Today they finally came together to land the Eagle of Durango in legendary style! 3 grand tour wins with 3 different champions in 2023. Chapeau to Sepp Kuuuuuuss, Primos Roglic , Jonas Vingegaard and the entire JV team on a season for the ages! 💓💛❤️🦅🇺🇸‼️
I think bringing Jonas full stop was always going to be 2 territorial cats hissing at each other.
Face it 6 GT between them, you don't get that being super generous. Maybe a beautiful watch or a pair of jet skis. Nobody gives away a GT.
If Sepp didn't lose lot on TT - he deserves to von this race
Underrated comment, great point.
Sepp learned Spanish and did some press interviews in Spanish. He endeared himself to those fans. This is much like the last great American champion Greg LeMond did when he moved to Europe and endeared himself to the French.
He lives in Andorra which is Spanish speaking
On LR they mentioned this is the second time they’ve noticed RE take his hand off his bars and touch his map, took a few seconds which he lost the stage by 🤷♀️
Many commenters need to study their history. Featured riders are OFTEN upended from circumstances that allowed a helper to win. Just in the TdF alone in recent years:
Jonas was a domestique for Roglic in 2022.
Bernal was riding for Thomas in 2019.
Thomas was riding for Froome in 2018.
Jonas and Primoz were both TJV captains in TdF 2022, after Jonas was runner up in TdF 2021.
Johan stating that Jumbo is in even a stronger position now because they have a rider that can put into the breakaway that is strong enough to win a race, "and so much worse for others teams" doesn't that apply to Jumbo's GC riders too?
Would they have done it if it was the Tour de France?
It appears that pro-cycling is the only sports where match-making is allowed. Hopefully the bookies will return all the bets that has been put on PR and JV.
is there a better 123? to see another grand tour sweep you need to go back to 1966 vuelta, before that 1945 vuelta before that 1928 tour before derailleurs were legal. the closest in my opinion in 96 roubaix but even that really doesnt come close to what they did.
I don't think Jonas wins last year without Primoz sacrificial raid on the Granon, even wrecked to the point of dropping out just after that stage because of the crash.
Without the crash there's a good probability that they both would have been tag teaming Tadej.
This race would have been completely different if Remco hadn't first donated a huge break that backfired, then had the stage 13 meltdown. It would have been fireworks between Jonas and Primoz against Remco.
This was a perfect storm of situations, strengths and failures. That have led us to an American GT winner, possible winter wars in the JV camp and still some questions of Remco's long climb abilities.
Though the questions about his ❤️and resolve after setback. No doubt he's passed that with 3 wins and 2 2nds. Then we have Wout Poles amazing last week. The Dutchman on 🔥 this summer with wins in the TDF and Veulta.
Last but certainly not least my GT MVP's
Robert Gesink and Dylan Van Barle.
These 2 controlled 80+ % of the kms of these 3 weeks.
Personally this was Hollywood perfection
Drama throughout with plot twists aplenty, amazing solos and record setting team performance.
VEULTA 23 AMAZING ❣️
thats alot of if's .. u dont think Jonas would have won last years tdf without primoz 🤣
Who will be Jumbos 2024 Vuelta captain? Will Sepp get a chance to defend?
Tradition says that he will be given first choice but he might refuse or want to lead the Giro
It's nice to see Sepp get his moment of glory. That said, I don't think the strongest rider won. I think JV or Primoz could have beaten him. I understand team orders and all that. Kudos to JV and Primoz for swallowing their own goals. JV could have been the first rider in a long time to win the Tour/Vuelta double. Primoz could have tied the record with 4 Vuelta wins. And IMHO either one could have beaten Sepp.
Also, does anyone else feel this would have been a lot more fun if Tadej had decided to ride the Vuelta, and Remco didn't have that one bad day?
They eventually became team players. Remember sepp had a strong hand in their stage wins while not offering him anything near the same support until the last few stages. Sepp was definitely strongest.
Most likeable winner in a loong time
Yeah - since TdF 2023 😊
The other teams' lack of GC contenders was the true thorn in the 2023 Vuelta.
If Sepp, Jonas, and Roglic are that much better, then the other teams should have courted one or more away with bigger contracts
If this Vuelta has proven anything, it's that you can't just buy a team. All 3 TJV riders now at the top of the game where nothing more than talents when they arrived at TJV without too much in results. Who besides Tadej Pogačar would possibly have made a difference? It's not the money, but what you do with it.
my wife was complaining why I am still watching cycling in Sepptember -- you did it on May and July, right? It's all your fault Spencer and Johan
I'm convinced that Remco saw the writing on the wall and sandbagged the "bad day" to open the door to a spectacular "come back" performance. THAT was the reason for pointing to the head...the smarts to win...on that last solo across the line for the win.
I don’t think the fans speculated. Jonas looked like the big villain at first, however Primoz was the wolve in sheep’s clothing. They saved themselves a PR nightmare.
Looked like the big villain in the eyes of who? It can only be peasants. Vingegaard did nothing wrong in this Vuelta; he literally gifted away a Grand Tour win when he didn't have to. You'll never see a leader do that again for his domestique.
If it was an ITT you couldn’t have rode defensive they would all went all out.
OK, the charity event is over. Now, we need to see some real cycling and kick out all the rainbow mobs in the public opinion.
What a joke guys like you are. They mainly saved me and a lot of other reasonable non partisan cycling fans a storm of hysterical social media posts from people like you, Spencer and I am sorry to say Johan as well.
They have a 1-2-3 and have managed a very complicated situation that no cycling team has ever been in.
Rather than padding yourself on the back for how right you were it is time to eat some humble pie.
Yep
the illusions live strong in America:-)
Sepp will vin the TDF. Keep on believing. If he went to another team he would fade away and nobody would talk about hin in two years time. He is a nice guy he is also a great climber. But is only a small part in what you need to stand on your own two legs as leader of a team in a TDF challenge against Pocacar, Vingegaard and Evenepoel next year. He would not get near the podium.
True. The TdF is a whole level up. Hopefully we’ll see, more competition is always good.
❤
America is BACK JACK
Thumbs up if you love Johan! Brilliantly cycling mind! -->
Is it a race, or an election of Mr Nice Guy?
I am aware of the pro cycling unspoken rules. So unspoken that it’s the only subject that matter in this « race ».
Stage 6: Remco is in red, Roglic and Vingegaard ( TEAM LEADERS GETTING HIRED TO WIN RACES) are not in their best shape. Van Baarle and Kuss ( DOMESTICS GETTING PAID TO SUPPORT TEAM LEADERS) are sent upfront for some tactics reasons to put pressure on Evenpoel.
Sepp Kuss go for stage victory and red jersey.
Happy Birthday Kuss, thank you for your amazing job this year, enjoy for a day in red, and let’s get back to business.
Vingegaard and Roglic are asked to win that Vuelta.
Turned out Kuss is on fire for the time trial. Good job Kuss, but let’s get realistic, back to the mountains, Vingegaard and Roglic will fight for victory.
They did it with professionalism, day after day, climb after climb, baby sitting the brave Kuss, clearly not the strongest of the 3 teammates. But the crowd has voted, the American domestic deserves to win. The 2 best riders in the world are summed to not race and becoming domestics starting stage 14.
The race became a long procession to the Champs Élysées, Evenpoel putting 11mn to the peloton every 2 stages, each day looking cringier than the day before.
I’m at the point that I feel uncomfortable for Kuss, having more pitty than support.
This 2023 Vuelta has been a shit show since day one, making me wondering why I should continue watching it, the happy end being decided 10 days ago by spectators, instead of participants.
Champs Elysees, that's definitely a long procession.
BUT first, let me find the fast forward.
More Johan!
I think actions speak louder than words. Setting the record straight on the last day or two after all of the backlash only means they knew they had a PR nightmare and needed a good team message. Roglic keeps saying he has his own thoughts. That doesn't mean Jonas and Primoz aren't happy for Sepp, but they likely both wanted to win, and knew they could. Both ideas can coexist. Without the team meetings, Jonas and Primoz likely would have continued to attack. Primoz planned all season to race this race as the sole leader. Jonas and Sepp showing up was not in his plan, and he is unhappy not to be able to tie the Vuelta record...rightfully so, but he still needed to recognize Sepp's position and ride for him. Again, actions speak louder than words.
John went soft, calling it just speculation. Other pods and cycling journalists oat the Vuelta tell us that things were quite tense in Jumbo land with Roglic.
I blame Remco for all this drama
AMERICAN CYCLING IS BACK
I've loved your coverage throughout the year. Value your insight into the team dynamics. Watching the narcissism of both Primoz and Jonas on display, regardless of this result (go Sepp), I think you do yourselves as disservice by minimising what you and we all observed. The smiles (under duress) do not patch the underlying disrespect shown for Sepp. Those 2 are narcissists. You're gaslighting us, your listeners, to try and say we didn't see what we all saw so clearly. There is a great learning from these 3 weeks. It will bear out as we see moves of cyclists from tjv as contracts end. Sepp might get a few offers... and I hope he considers them. The dye is cast for him at tjv, and now that they (plugge) "protected" his win, they'll want greater payback and commitment from Sepp going forward. Interesting times.
Very good remark, donald trump. " as you all know". but again small IQ people and ignorants and anti-fact-checking fans like you, may have point. Outright idiotic remark
Nah. They got chewed by everyone and they’re just trying to recover.
Wait... Does this mean Sepp Kuss will not be going to the TDF? He has to defend the Vuelta next year right?
Oh, he’ll be at TDF. Kuss was in the Vuelta last year, had to abandon due to sickness. Sepp told Jonas on camera today “you’re next,”
Mr. Spenser: "It is "understadable Primoz feels that way" (To win this race) But it was "disusting" when he thought that Jonas felt that way! But it is clear now how that went! Jonas was all in for riding for Kuss after week 2! (Not the team or Primoz) What a lot BS!!! That guy (Mr.Spenser) can't even hide the fact, now even after the last three stages, that he want his fellow country man to "win" it so bad.... and he doesn't like Jonas! (If he could have, he probably would have said all the infighting Jonas caused) Yeah I get it... Mr. Spenser really can't stand Jonas. And he like Primoz. Even with now trying to prettend otherwise! It is not what you say in the end when all facts are on the table, but what you say almost every other day in a 3 week race!
So why am I following this site? Because i like Mr. Bruyneels thoughts a lot! I am fan of all this great riders (Especially Tardej and Jonas), I just want fair to be fair!
The case for it being 'understandable' for Primoz is that right at the start of the year he was rostered as leader for the Giro and the Vuelta and almost certainly that was as a reward for being left out the TDF as its well known Roglic really wants to have another TDF and himself as the leader - but that is impossible with Jonas on the team.
So Primoz wins the Giro and then is looking forward to the Vuelta (and doing a ton of training) when suddenly at the end of the Tour Jonas says he is going to the Vuelta and Sepp is as well. Roglic would be fine with Sepp coming as a super-domestique but Jonas? He would have said to himself what role is Jonas going to be?
Then as the race goes on Sepp is on top form and it turns out he has ambitions of the win of his own and that the team support the idea and you can see how Roglic is pissed off.
As to Jonas its clear now that he diid support Sepp winning the overall GC and certainly in the third week but if he had not then he would have had no excuse
For all the kumbaya going on here, nobody's going to forget how Richard Plugge and Grisha Niermann handled this, and the idea that the bad blood between Vingegaard and Roglic has just magically disappeared is naive. Really, really happy for Sepp. He earned it. He deserved it.
nobody knows how they handled it, this is literally all just speculation and drama drummed up by fans and media.
They are so good, maybe to good to be normal !!! What about doping you gays should know something about that !!! One did get cought and one had hart atack in the car !!??
C'mon guys, no need to back pedal on what Jonas and Roglich were doing to Kuss. We all saw it and said what was happening when it happened. To say that we didnt know what was going on in the team is nonsense. Everyone on multiple channels and social media called them out on it. Even the interviews with them said that it aint over till its over. They knew what a p.r nightmare and the repercussions were going to be and they changed their strategy. No need to change your story.
the TT sort of sorted it out, no? Also didn't Jonas basically take the red jersey on the Ang...? It was only saved by Landa....??I see a lot of revisionist history. Jonas was within 4 (went to 8 by Landa)--Jonas wasn't going to give the red back. I think both were going for it...
TJV told the riders to fight for it. Jonas did not want to fight for it, he said that to the team on the second rest day, but he was overruled. So Jonas was in a position where he wanted Sepp to win, but they were all still fighting for the red jersey, and Primoz was still planning to go for the red jersey. The team told the riders not to wait for each other if they dropped. So when Roglic rode away on the "Angry Lou" then Jonas had to either stay with Sepp, and take the risk of losing the Vuelta to Primoz if Sepp had totally cracked, or go with Roglic but just shadow him and not try to take extra time. Jonas could have climbed Angrilu probably 1-2 minutes faster than he did, but he held back in hopes that Sepp would still have the red jersey. The radio did not work properly because they were on a mountain top and the car could not follow, so he had no updates on where Sepp was. Jonas also did not challenge for the stage win to not get the extra bonus seconds. Jonas said the day after that he regretted not sticking with Sepp.
But what was he supposed to do? Jonas said himself that he was stuck between a rock and a hard place. Basically, there is a fight for the red jersey going on between three people, he want Sepp to win, but he doesn't want Primoz to win. The best thing to do is gain time on Primoz, which is what Jonas did, without actually taking the red jersey away from Sepp. By gaining time on Primoz, he ensured that if Primoz attacked for the red jersey, and Jonas followed him, then he'd just give it to Jonas instead, which would make Primoz less likely to attack and therefore protect Sepp.
@@mmarcel right :D Primož was.1:30 behind and atacked so late he could never take that time. He went for stage win that Jonas robbed him off on stage 16 (that was team plan), maybe gain some time on opponents. Jonas went for red. They were then still free to go for it by team before social media stopped it. Only difference is Jonas was telling the press he would like Sepp to win, 3 minutes after some luck and bonus seconds kept Sepp in red, while Primož said he doesn't mind Sepp to win but would like to fight for it. Jonas saying his focus is working for Sepp after Angliru is the same as eating 2 large chocolates for dinner and telling your wife your main focus is losing some weight as fast as.possible ;) But this guy is a genious. Nearly stole grand tour win from his teammate on his birthday and make most of spectators blame another teammate for that. Sad.
@@Soli11 I am still confused. just let Roglic ride on his own--he wouldn't have taken the red. But, by following Roglic, he basically took the red from Sepp and put it on his shoulders. I'm not buying any of this. It was only through a really hard push and Landa and the grace of God that Jonas didn't take the Red. The only real challenge that day was Jonas. Roglic had nothing to do with it that day...to some extent. Revisionist history...I blame team management...should have consolidated behind Sepp after the TT, imho.
@@gaspercebulj9477 yep. It was pretty clear Jonas was going after the Red. People are somewhat guiliblle and think too highly of people (I've become a cycnic). I think Roglic is at least being a bit more straightforward in some of his comments. That Red jersey was saved by the skin of his ass by Landa and Sepp at the end of the stage. Jonas was about to bag it, had zilcho to do to with Roglic. Let Roglic win the damn stage.
@@mmarcel how? by pushing him off the bike? presumably Roglic was going full gas and would have done so w/o Jonas there. Roglic was a useful excused for Joans to take the race.
Sepp Kush for the win!
I don’t care about nationality of the winner. I just want a Mano y Mano race, where the strongest wins.
As G. Thomas pointed out, it’s not about the strongest rider.
Mano a mano stage race, eh? Yeah, that's not a thing, chief.
😂 Don't trust the Dutch guy Hahaha
Primos got screwed over.
Race was determined in the court of public opinion!
Roll and Christian are the worst in the way they rallied for Kuss to “win”
Hey welcome to cycling. It’s good to see newbies tune in and start to learn how pro cycling is a team sport.
@@rockhopper01 👍🏽👍🏽
haha agreed . @@rockhopper01
It's been over ten years since an American has been doninant so having an American cyclist winning will get Americans invested in cycling again.
Toute résistance est futile