Have Rushdown Fighters Fallen Off? | Super Smash Bros. Ultimate

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  • Опубликовано: 29 сен 2024
  • Rushdown fighters used to be the most popular class and playstyle in Smash Ultimate during its early days. Since then, the game has evolved and developed to favor more punish oriented playstyles, causing the archetype to suffer greatly in results and representation. We're gonna discuss what happened with Rushdown fighters, and if they're still viable or not.
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    #SSBU #Characters #Rushdown

Комментарии • 221

  • @Nefaliss
    @Nefaliss Год назад +45

    8:12 Unrelated to the topic but i find this image really funny.
    Looks like ZSS as a Cop is chassing criminals in Wario who is panicking, Wolf who wants to shoot her back, Joker who is running like he can never be caught and PT who is finding them an escape route.

  • @jugrajchauhan3810
    @jugrajchauhan3810 Год назад +3

    I will always play rushdowns even if they have fallen off cause they’re fun

  • @EthanGrace938
    @EthanGrace938 Год назад

    Meanwhile I believe Robin could be s tier

  • @zedith6045
    @zedith6045 Год назад +288

    I personally think that Joker is definitely a bait and punish character. I used to play him like a rush down, similar to how I play Mythra but I kept doing poorly. Once I made the realization that he's a bait and punish character and not a rush down aggressive character I started getting a lot better results

    • @jaredbeavers4272
      @jaredbeavers4272 Год назад +10

      You play joker and pyra mythra I don't want to hear your opinion

    • @zedith6045
      @zedith6045 Год назад +65

      @@jaredbeavers4272 I also play Kirby, Bowser, DK, Young Link and Shulk. I don't play competitively I just play whatever characters I like playing

    • @jaredbeavers4272
      @jaredbeavers4272 Год назад +3

      @@zedith6045 that's fine then but anyone who mains joke or pyra mythra I can't respect as a gonon main😂 hope you can understand

    • @jaredbeavers4272
      @jaredbeavers4272 Год назад

      Considering you play bowser and dk im sure you do

    • @zedith6045
      @zedith6045 Год назад +27

      @@jaredbeavers4272 yeah fair enough, I just like Xenoblade and Persona 5 so I like playing them. although I'll be honest I don't like playing them all the time because against friends it's just unfun overwhelming them with characters like them so instead I play the fun party characters like DK and Bowser lol

  • @IamNster
    @IamNster Год назад +150

    Tbh I think the pandemic had something to do with the rise of zoners. It was an online meta, so zoners naturally got a bit of a buff, but then people had all this time to lab and realize, "Oh, this is unironically kind of broken!"
    Edit: This seems unrelated to the video, but I'm tryna say that I don't think rushdown characters got worse. I just think that the zoners got better over time.

    • @LavaCreeperPeople
      @LavaCreeperPeople Год назад +2

      ok

    • @dennisd.4726
      @dennisd.4726 Год назад +12

      They took 'keep a 6 foot distance' too seriously

    • @donkylefernandez4680
      @donkylefernandez4680 Год назад +1

      From a risk/reward pov Zoners and Campers naturally have the highest advantage in safety. I wholeheartedly believe in Samusxx where games look more Street Fighter and less Smash Bros. That said, we need SonicFox to take a crack at smash. Swordies being the "chosen best" is a microchasm of this since they have the added benefit of range while still being somewhat fast to watch. # NoMorals

    • @superheriber27
      @superheriber27 Год назад

      ​@@donkylefernandez4680Ew no

  • @ringss_
    @ringss_ Год назад +28

    I think it's hilarious that Light is the leading player in a dying archetype, because he's notoriously bad at ANY other character, so it seems like he'd have a lot of difficulty switching to adapt

    • @extonjonas6820
      @extonjonas6820 Год назад +8

      I think light just does not play any other character, I think he is dedicated to fox and for good reason as his dedication has made him really good at tackling even the worst matchups. With that being said, if he wanted to play another character, I am sure he could

    • @ringss_
      @ringss_ Год назад +3

      @@extonjonas6820 He def could pick up another character, but when he plays smashdown with Marss or Cosmos or something, he gets totally cooked

    • @TheFullPackage
      @TheFullPackage Год назад +2

      @@ringss_ Being bad at smashdown in a casual setting doesn't necessarily represent how good he would be playing other characters/archetypes if he really wanted to

  • @metaknightSSBU
    @metaknightSSBU Год назад +42

    Unfortunately the meta has shifted more towards defensive playstyle, which is why zoners and whiff punish characters are more viable. This has also made it so that sets are more boring too watch imo

  • @ahmadkazan5473
    @ahmadkazan5473 Год назад +51

    The thing is that every character designed to be rush down has the tools to be better at bait and punish character since fast movment and safe hitboxes are the best way to force panic and win interactions,unless your shiek and you have to constantly be in your opponent's face to get back a percent lead every rushdown designed character is better at being a bait and punish character.

  • @aprinnyonbreak1290
    @aprinnyonbreak1290 Год назад +10

    Smash Ultimate has gradually morphed into a "first to initiate, first to lose" vibe so I'm not surprised

  • @JonnyJayKhan
    @JonnyJayKhan Год назад +14

    Joker seems more like a character that uses his mobility and tiny hurtbox to schmove around opponents and find openings, similar to Metaknight with his jumps and fast falls or Wario with his aerial drift
    Wario I would also say is more of a schmovement thread the needle character, and Wolf is the definition of bait and punish. PT is obviously a mix of archetypes but I would say only Squirtle is a rush down

  • @N12015
    @N12015 Год назад +11

    In conclussion: FP2 was a *massive mistake.* Rushdown was already being learned.

  • @TheDoomsdayzoner
    @TheDoomsdayzoner Год назад +5

    It's funny that Sonic was supposed originally to be a rushdown character. But Sakurai refuses to let go of Brawl moveset they made in the last minute.

  • @CookieGal-
    @CookieGal- Год назад +19

    Some of them have, but before watching the video I would say it's not them specifically, just the playstyle itself. Only characters who genuinely have to hold forward (who weren't the best of those characters to begin with) are falling away, like Falcon and Roy (where even Roy could be more of an issue with his players being uncomfortable with the forced change in playstyle).

  • @NapalmDust
    @NapalmDust Год назад +8

    Video Idea: Why LITERALLY NO ONE plays Mii Swordfighter.
    I would love to see their flaws explained in depth.

    • @AZSprocket
      @AZSprocket Год назад

      For real. You see more Gunners than you do Swordfighters, and that's saying something.

  • @olbluelips
    @olbluelips Год назад +16

    I think a big contributor to this is not being able to shield out of dash. In earlier games every character had access to this insane defensive option. Now you have to commit to dashing, which makes closing space much harder than earlier games. Without this defensive option, rushdowns have very little to protect themselves from ults slew of confirms and high-damage moves

    • @AnenLaylle7023
      @AnenLaylle7023 Год назад

      Uh you can shield out of dash bro. Google dash shielding.

    • @cannibalfish2429
      @cannibalfish2429 5 месяцев назад

      You CAN shield out of dash

    • @olbluelips
      @olbluelips 5 месяцев назад +1

      @@cannibalfish2429 not immediately. You’re still forced to dash for a certain number of frames (char dependant), so the faster your dash is, the more committal it is as well

  • @bobomber
    @bobomber Год назад +4

    I think gameplay is overall more healthy when rushdown characters are strong because there is an inherent level of risk in taking aggressive actions and that risk should be rewarded. Second, I think the game is more entertaining to watch and has a higher overall skill ceiling when these characters are played.

  • @Trevor-kc6zv
    @Trevor-kc6zv Год назад +4

    Rush down characters are easily the best to watch. The switch to characters who excel against rush down is gonna hurt the watchability of Smash long term. It’s sad to see this laid out and sucks that Smash is moving away from having fun with characters to camping and waiting

  • @sebaschan-uwu
    @sebaschan-uwu Год назад +6

    Sheik, joker, diddy kong, zss and chrom are not rush down characters. Just because they are fast does not make them rush down. Rush down is an archetype based on playstyle. If you play any of these characters as if they were fox or pikachu you would lose against any half witted player. Their speed is not just to close distance but to set up their superior neutral and for zss to enable her evasive ability and whiff punishing. But for someone like falcon, his speed is mainly for closing distance because his neutral is pretty ass even with his high speed.

  • @banditimaclubyou8388
    @banditimaclubyou8388 Год назад +5

    Imo, if your character can be generalized as a rush down, then by default they are also able to bait and punish. Vice versa might not hold the same results, though.

  • @D_To_The_J
    @D_To_The_J Год назад +7

    The more I play the more I discovered that rushdown and aggression is at a larger disadvantage as if you wiff you are going to get punished hard and a lot of rush down characters don't have the best disadvantages.

  • @billybill1270
    @billybill1270 Год назад +4

    Wario is not a rushdown character, his ability to hold forward is limited and his kit is far more specialised to whiff-punishing.

  • @danielferrieri7434
    @danielferrieri7434 Год назад +35

    Video Idea: The History of 8 Player Smash

    • @Newbmann
      @Newbmann Год назад

      Zero,Samsora,Kola,Esam,Leo,Spargo,zackary,Gluto.

    • @sandycrash8868
      @sandycrash8868 Год назад +2

      You mean why Casual smash is dead good idea for a video hint hint

    • @Newbmann
      @Newbmann Год назад

      @@sandycrash8868 nah its not really dead just more so restricted to here me out events and parties and stuff.
      Almost like whats expected of a party game.

    • @KanSanyara
      @KanSanyara Год назад

      @@Newbmannyeah no in parties where people are over 7 years old they'll usually play 4 player smash and switch after a match

    • @aprinnyonbreak1290
      @aprinnyonbreak1290 Год назад +1

      @@sandycrash8868
      Casual Smash is dead because of For Glory/Elite Smash.
      Before, the one guy in a friend group who was better than everyone else could at least settle into casual society as a setpiece.
      Now, the average friend group has such a wide range of skill, that casual play among the group is basically impossible.

  • @winky3
    @winky3 Год назад +4

    at 10:20 Cosmos actually recently tweeted he's trying to make the inkling work again, and he's dropping PaM.

  • @Huckle777
    @Huckle777 Год назад +2

    Yes and this is why I kinda hate smash ultimate lately. The meta rewards camping and playing slow/cheesy as opposed to being more combo based like I really wish it was... The meta has made the game so boring and lame and Im just waiting for Rivals 2 at this point.

    • @dave9515
      @dave9515 Год назад

      How does someone tell him? 😟

  • @kapn_ctk
    @kapn_ctk Год назад +6

    I play very rushdown style mii brawler. And I found the most difficult part is when I make a small mistake and then get bodied hard, or when my opponent adapts to all of my options and I feel I have no more entry points. I can be pretty rough.

    • @benjaminratthe9904
      @benjaminratthe9904 Год назад +5

      That thing about entry points hits hard as a Falcon main. You only have so many ways to approach and sometimes it feels like some characters' forward tilt just beat all of them lol

  • @grimsdol4665
    @grimsdol4665 Год назад +6

    I think Rushdown fell off because they're only good against slow opponents and almost none of em are Meta, and trying to rush down characters like zoners won't work when many if them have strong out of shield punishes forcing you to slow down

    • @tomcampbell8934
      @tomcampbell8934 Год назад +1

      Samus having that up B out of shield is complete bullshit

    • @ojutay8375
      @ojutay8375 Год назад +3

      ​@@grimsdol4665not just up b. Pac-Man Nair is frame 6, Min Min up smash is frame 7. It's insane that they can box

    • @Spyder-Marth
      @Spyder-Marth Год назад +2

      ​@@ojutay8375 exactly my thinking when Min Min was released. No zoner should be able to fight well up close AND at a distance. That's ridiculous. Samus mains are extremely abundant for a reason

  • @tallgeese88
    @tallgeese88 Год назад +1

    People just realized Smash Ultimate is a casual and spam-heavy "keepaway" battle game. I sat "keepaway" because its a better representation of the playstype than "zoner." "Zoner" is a term coward/keepaway players made up to feel better about their playstyle. I dont call Smash a fighting game because it doesnt really involve fisticuffs... its a battle game. You battle with your long range guns and pokes. Thank god I play Tekken and only bust this game out for parties. Its true face has finally been revealed. Guy who made the video is now coming around to realizing it. Imagine treating Smash as an actual legit fighting game.... these realizations are the inevitable result.

  • @angusweir1708
    @angusweir1708 Год назад +3

    Is Captain Falcon the type of character that warrants a video with the title "Why No One Plays" or "Why Everyone Plays"? Or perhaps a different title altogether like "Why (Not) Everyone Plays Captain Falcon"?
    He seems very common at lower levels of play but not very common at all in higher levels.

  • @shizo66
    @shizo66 Год назад +8

    camping/zoning is just too strong in smash brothers. Its more balanced in other fighting games due to lack of available screen but smash is unique where the stage is tremendously bigger in all directions, playing a character that isnt lightning fast and doesnt have a fireball of some kind just feels bad, and its made worse when the other person does.

  • @sandycrash8868
    @sandycrash8868 Год назад +6

    The problem with rush down is they have poor Edge guarding safe options. Joker with out arsen grenjia the pikas are the only true safe rush down off stage fighters everyone else has a much greater risk to reward where it’s better to just stay on stage even the ones I mention still prefer to stay on stage and spam back air

    • @Nouser_237
      @Nouser_237 Год назад +2

      Not entirely sure if Joker should be considered a rush down

  • @koolersdomain3905
    @koolersdomain3905 Год назад +4

    Personally I feel like every rushdown character has had to transform into a bait and punish character. with how good out of shield options are in the high level meta it feels like a lot of characters one might consider "rushdown" moreso just camp at burst range and throw out stuff until someone comes into their protective bubble and gets clipped by it or whiffs a move nearby so they can punish. kazuya and steve 0-deaths I think also scare people into desperately not wanting to get clipped by a move, so they play them like this. This was lowkey a thing before with luigi and a few other advantage heavy characters but I think this fear really took off once they saw how broken these two characters combos are.

  • @dave9515
    @dave9515 Год назад +2

    Rushdowns fell off because the game didn't benefit them as much compared to zoners, bait and punish, turtlers, keep aways and other more defensive archetypes in reality. Make most moves safe in the game and you can't exactly punish mistakes now can you. Passive aggressive isn't agressive now is it and thats what spamming safe moves on a shield is. Rushdowns usually have significantly less reward and safety compared to other characters too. FP2 isn't what caused this. People figured out the gamestate is all. If rushdowns make a comeback it won't be from them rushing down but moreso from them taking more defensive playstyles and embodying a similar style to kazuya and bait and punish types. Also still waiting for people to start parrying more. It can be good in some situations and not only that but even if the opponent has a safe move and you parry as long as it aint samus or a projectile character that can punish parries you could use it as a tool to get in someone's head and even those with the proper timing you could use parries. Defense is just inherently stronger in ultimate and whiff punishing is significantly weaker to the point it does not exist which contributes to rushdowns struggling. Hitbox interpolation being more whack, hurtbox shifting being a bigger deal, lack of crossups, lack of large combos because of balloon knockback, lack of threatening grabs for a lot of the cast and its not hard to see why the rushdowns fell off. Ultimate is just a major game of cheese and advantage and if you don't have a monster neutral, monster advantage, or majorly cheesy gimmick your character is gonna struggle hard regardless how well they are designed. Cloud rose because of his monstrous neutral while his advantage leaves a lot to be desired while roy fell because his neutral isn't strong enough to carry his advantage when his advantage won't be having him TOD characters. Aegis fell off a while ago and the proof is in the results of everytime someone uses them and loses constantly which happens a lot now. Ultimate was never an aggressive game to begin with.

  • @gameboyn64
    @gameboyn64 Год назад +3

    I think a good way to tell you are playing a rush down character is if you are holding foward most of the match

  • @dazedd-fi4yx
    @dazedd-fi4yx Год назад +3

    the only reason why rushdowns were ever "viable" was because ppl wanted to play this way. Not interacting is the best way to win since melee.

  • @OnijJokuma
    @OnijJokuma Год назад +3

    I should go back to Fox. He is just the best character in this game.

    • @tomcampbell8934
      @tomcampbell8934 Год назад +1

      I came from melee and he’s the only character I enjoy playing. I hate waiting so fucking long falling in the air just to hit the ground again. I can’t stand how floaty everyone is

    • @OnijJokuma
      @OnijJokuma Год назад

      @@tomcampbell8934 I can see that. Fast falling is such a great set of movement.

    • @RealBroccoliHour
      @RealBroccoliHour Год назад

      Fox’s recovery and weight is way to exploitable to outright be the best character in the game

    • @OnijJokuma
      @OnijJokuma Год назад

      @@RealBroccoliHour Fox encourages the player to make fewer mistakes. Fox, in the right hands, is meant to control the whole situation with speed and precision. Fox just demands a lot, but it's worth it once you gain control and understanding.

  • @kailesperance1922
    @kailesperance1922 10 месяцев назад +1

    The reason why people say FP2 is ruining the game is because even though every fighter has a hard counter, when you’re being forced to use specific characters to counter a few, very OP ones, that’s a problem

  • @henrybitencourt
    @henrybitencourt 8 месяцев назад +1

    Terry mythra roy and Fox is one of the few rushdown characters that adapt the New slower paced more bait and punish playstyle

  • @kaito2220
    @kaito2220 Год назад +1

    Yeah the meta has shifted to way lamer playstyles and to characters nobody enjoys fighting. Here's to hoping smash 6 doesn't make the same mistakes if/when it comes

  • @AZSprocket
    @AZSprocket Год назад +4

    The archetypical rushdown characters are Fox and Captain Falcon. Get in fast, do a lot of damage, get out fast, and rely almost completely on fast movement and fast frame data to do that. One of their other trademark features is that they are glass cannons: they have among the worst disadvantage states in the game, and are often very easy to KO or edge guard.
    The difference between brawlers and rushdowns is thay brawlers have a much better disadvantage state, and arent super easy to kill in comparison. Brawlers also tend to have a bit slower frame data.

    • @sauce8277
      @sauce8277 Год назад +1

      Ah yes, Falcon. The glass cannon.

    • @redfish6549
      @redfish6549 Год назад +7

      @@sauce8277 my dude get combo to oblivion. And if you have a lingering move his recovery is kinda mid.

    • @AZSprocket
      @AZSprocket Год назад +1

      ​@@sauce8277maybe glass cannon is the wrong term for Falcon, but it definitely applies to Fox.
      A better expression then is a character that has limited recovery options (Falcon is a fairly predictable character in terms of recovery) and limited combo breaks/escape options (once a character is in a combo, it's harder to escape). In other words, all offense, no defensive options.

    • @TheFullPackage
      @TheFullPackage Год назад +2

      ​@@AZSprocketadding on to what you said, what most people don't know about Falcon is that he also has the most committal dash in the game, with it having the equal 2nd most frames on top of how much distance it covers. Not to mention his turnaround, which is another example of his very lacking defence. Your defence becomes so much worse when both dashing and turning around leave you much more vulnerable relative to the cast.

  • @Rollenstone
    @Rollenstone Год назад +1

    I see you with that FF14 music.

  • @sandycrash8868
    @sandycrash8868 Год назад +1

    Still waiting for why no one plays causal smash / CAUSAL SMAHS IS DESD

  • @Blargleflakes
    @Blargleflakes Год назад +8

    Dhalsim has had hurtboxes on his limbs since SNES…and someone still thought disjoints on min min was a good idea :(

    • @grimsdol4665
      @grimsdol4665 Год назад +2

      that's smash hros for someone says "wouldn't it be cool if" and no one asked "hey is that fun or balanced"

    • @PaperGraysterYT
      @PaperGraysterYT Год назад +1

      because min min is dlc so it’s totally excusable

    • @grimsdol4665
      @grimsdol4665 Год назад +1

      @@PaperGraysterYT Ness's Yo yo would like to have a word with you

    • @PaperGraysterYT
      @PaperGraysterYT Год назад +1

      @@grimsdol4665oh crap you’re right
      but if anything at least that doesn’t cover 60% of the stage

    • @grimsdol4665
      @grimsdol4665 Год назад

      @@PaperGraysterYT only 60% of the ledge lol

  • @squirrelwithabanana
    @squirrelwithabanana Год назад +1

    You can’t say that Ned held on to ranking better than gluto did 😭 Gluto is still top 10, Ned is not top 150

  • @RaheemRollair
    @RaheemRollair Год назад +2

    Damn, I didn't think that Rushdowns were falling off. I thought that they were still broken and still taking games, sets and tourneys. But you convinced me completely otherwise, especially with the dodging mention (But that still happens online anyways with the Bad netcode). The best way to understand the process of the game itself is by watching the pros. Everybody knows the Unga Bunga tactics and are baiting them perfectly. No wonder the Rushdown fighters were dropped by their mains.

  • @ToadetteTails6969
    @ToadetteTails6969 Год назад +1

    My personal verdict on rushdown brawlers: I think rushdown-ers are mostly decent. However, I think that smaller rushdown-ers (E.g: Pikachu and Pichu) do better than the most due to their size (especially Pika). Smaller size = less of a chance of getting hit. Pretty simple, right?
    I suppose that by now, with the passing of time, people have learn't how to properly deal with them. It's crazy that Light's still been keeping Fox alive. Dude deserves respect.

  • @meatloaf7939
    @meatloaf7939 Год назад +1

    Love the channel but youve gotta upgrade your mic or change your sound mixing it is very hard to hear you

  • @Ban-zx9se
    @Ban-zx9se Год назад +1

    I think another important note is that almost every game, especially platform fighters like smash, gradually shifts towards more patient play as the meta develops. Even Melee is noticeably more meticulous given many top players heavy emphasis on positioning, which goes to show defensive options won't matter as much as the ability to maintain an advantage when everyone can potentially 0td off of any stray interaction. (Which is why I believe Sonic has seen a significant rise) As far as Light's antithetical playstyle gets him, eventually people will grind out these sorts of uncomfortable interactions and develop such an acute game sense that these strategies will inherently become less effective.

  • @illford
    @illford Год назад +1

    I feel this has already aged because Cosmos started playing Inkling again 💀

    • @zate5355
      @zate5355 Год назад +1

      And will get no results

  • @nydeity9100
    @nydeity9100 Год назад +1

    The game rewards being lame now.

  • @brooksyang5834
    @brooksyang5834 Год назад +2

    Looking at the patch notes it feels so weird to see cloud buffed cuz now he's the one dominating the meta

  • @olbluelips
    @olbluelips Год назад +1

    Yoshi’s doing ok, but he’s arguably a trapper. I think he’s a rushdown as well as a trapper tbh

  • @syrupshrike9742
    @syrupshrike9742 Год назад +2

    I think part of whiff punishing being favored over rushdown is that they're two sides of the same coin, but rushdown is more committal. Where whiff punishing is punishing endlag, rushdown requires you to punish startup by using your faster frame data. It's essentially always easier to react to a move whiffing (startup, active frames, and endlag) rather than just the startup, where it's almost always a read. Lastly, dedicated rushdowns usually still have strong whiff punishing, but many whiff punishers can't rush down as well.

    • @fartenthusiast-zl2qv
      @fartenthusiast-zl2qv Год назад +3

      yeah thats why rush down imo is way more interesting to watch it seems more like a gamble rather than running away and choosing safe options

  • @Nako3
    @Nako3 Год назад +1

    11:37, that roy didnt just go for a read he went for a whole book xD

  • @manwithnoname4346
    @manwithnoname4346 Год назад +2

    Props for the ff14 music. Took me a second to recognize it

  • @gliderman8934
    @gliderman8934 Год назад +2

    the fire nation joke made me laugh

  • @lastnamefirstname8655
    @lastnamefirstname8655 Год назад +1

    rushdowns still work, but the changing meta does mean different playstyles will be needed for rushdowns to perform again.

  • @Buzterer
    @Buzterer Год назад +1

    Since the meta is evolving organically, its just a matter of tie before rushdown becomes meta again

  • @SuperHalo-rn4rr
    @SuperHalo-rn4rr Год назад +1

    Spectating wise, I suppose I'm in the minority or not being indifferent or favorited to watching specific character types. I just like watching Smash in its many forms. Fun I think is still pretty subjective too, but that's to joy of smash. Still nice video! The FFXIV music almost made me think I was running the game while watching this lol.

  • @sandycrash8868
    @sandycrash8868 Год назад +4

    Joker is definitely a rush down but he’s a rush down like sonic. It’s not optimal to play him like that better to play bait and punish

  • @chistynk7490
    @chistynk7490 Год назад +3

    Can't wait for a video about the "choosing to lose" characters 🙏

    • @ringss_
      @ringss_ Год назад

      Armadillo, Peanut, Kirbykid, etc etc

    • @chistynk7490
      @chistynk7490 Год назад +1

      @@ringss_ *Fox/Mythra/Sheik/Joker/Pikachu/Young Link/Rob/Sonic

    • @julienrogeau8362
      @julienrogeau8362 Год назад +2

      @@chistynk7490 this man spit facts

    • @ringss_
      @ringss_ Год назад +1

      @@chistynk7490 OH YOU MEANT THAT, I thought you meant the low-tier allure
      I understand now, characters bound by human error

    • @extonjonas6820
      @extonjonas6820 Год назад

      @@chistynk7490 These characters are so varied, what would you even say in that video. "You are playing a good character so if you lose you are just worse than your opponent"

  • @drbiohazmat
    @drbiohazmat Год назад +1

    I know this is irrelevant but hearing FFXIV music over smash just reminds me of how much I've wanted a FFXIV fighter for years 😔

  • @mysticsquirtle5109
    @mysticsquirtle5109 Год назад +4

    Rush downs have become more difficult overall due to defensive options and invincibility became much more prominent. They have always been more of a glass canon (or have a glaring weakness), but now get exploited more by tools that majority of characters have. That being said there are 2 things that make a good rush down, that you mentioned, but didn’t go into much detail on
    1: rush downs often have to use their tools to force options. A character like Roy, who can struggle offstage or at an awkward midrange excels at racking up damage, taking early stocks, pressuring shield, and having good and safe frame data. Swinging aimlessly no longer works as well, but precise timings can gain an early lead where now someone needs to approach you to exploit weaknesses. Terry is very similar in current practicality and execution
    2: offence is defence. A lot of rush downs excel at pressuring and have great tools or movement or both to always make someone uncomfortable. I’ll examine Light like you did, the reason he does so well with Fox is because he rarely commits to a hard shield and doesn’t throw out options without purpose. You might say he’s mashing when he bairs Glutonny’s Leo’s or Sonix’s shield 5 times at ledge, but it’s how fox plays defence. Those bairs are all spaced where a burst option struggles and won’t amount to much if they even manage to hit. He’s trying to pressure a roll or jump, or condition into shield, saying “you can’t hit me, if you move you lose your stock”. On top of that he knows Fox falls insanely fast, and uses short and full hops, as well as fast falls and double jumps, to mix up his landings and stay untouchable
    What makes a good rush down currently is their ability to pressure defensively and explode offensively

    • @dave9515
      @dave9515 Год назад +2

      Reason number one also explains the downfall well. This game has no whiff punishing so even hitting shields isn't enough to force options. The options need to really scare the player. If ultimate had robust movement for microspacing and positioning rushdowns would do a bit better but then balloon knockback needs to be removed, crossups come back and of course last but not least make hitbox interpolation better on the cast as a whole. If they did this then rushdowns wouldn't struggle as hard. ROA has a great gamestate and no archetype is favored over another imo.

    • @mysticsquirtle5109
      @mysticsquirtle5109 Год назад +2

      @@dave9515 I love Rivals, completely agree. This game does have whiff punishing but a lot of good characters have stupid tools that can’t be whiff punished (Rob nair, Steve up tilt is literally + on shield, Minmin as a character). I think rushdowns should have strong safe on shield options that don’t require a prior commitment, but isn’t so absurd that it breaks them. Roy jab is a good example, it’s not entirely safe, but adds a huge threat and has good shield stun to make it rewarding at first, and it’s not safe due to how frame data in this game generally works (any aerial on ultimate frame data is assuming you land it as low as possible, whereas all grounded moves can’t be cancelled on the ground like aerials).
      Also regarding Roy jab and rivals, I love the idea of jabs being more useful. In rivals, you could cancel a jab into any tilt as long as you can do another hit of jab after (basically Terry jab with input moves, the last hit can’t cancel), and they don’t stun you when parried but still give the opponent invincibility. In smash 4 and previous smash in general, characters had more jab combos, Marth jab 1 up tilt in sm4sh, fox jab 1 up smash in melee, I think they could be designed as a better tool for rush downs as a whole.

  • @Hikaru1468
    @Hikaru1468 Год назад +1

    I just got into competing in smash ultimate after being a long time viewer and I main sheik, with a rushdown falco and cloud secondary, and I prioritize aggression, and as I've started to enter tournaments I have become very aware that movement both forwards and backwards become very important especially against matchups like diddy, where movement and bait and punish game becomes so important, Even if it is less fun than absolutely not letting the other player play the game, focusing on options like movement help me to still enjoy the intricacies of Smash and make me a better player.

  • @peter42466
    @peter42466 Год назад +1

    I still feel that fighter pass 2 ruined the game as a spectator buffer ruined it as a player for me but fighter pass 2 made the game so dull as a spectator and also the people just made adaptations would make rushdowns useless in melee I feel it was the fact that every character can wall you out now which made it worse

    • @aprinnyonbreak1290
      @aprinnyonbreak1290 Год назад +1

      Agree.
      Pythra, Kazuya, and Steve basically redefined the game and, imo, made it worse.
      It's great if you like them as characters, but they killed my interest in Smash as anything more than a party game.
      Which, admittedly, Steve is very fun in that context.

    • @peter42466
      @peter42466 Год назад

      @@aprinnyonbreak1290 custom stages with steve is so fun

    • @bullettime1116
      @bullettime1116 Год назад +1

      ​@@aprinnyonbreak1290that was Nintendo intention regardless, they have a hard on to remind you guys that they despise competitive smash

  • @Visual217
    @Visual217 Год назад +1

    I think the major reason is that most rushdown characters have a deceptively high skill floor and deceptively low skill ceiling. Watch any upper mid/high tier players and you'll see that they're much more focused on fishing for glancing blows to stun their opponent into a combo/kill attack. What makes a rushdown character so menacing is how safe yet precise these glancing blows are to throw out. You need to be smart about how you throw them out but these characters have such a slim window to be punished. A high level player is much smarter about when to start spamming attacks.
    As the meta progresses, everyone starts learning the optimal neutrals of these rushdown characters and are much better able to counter. High level rushdown players are more quickly realizing the limited toolsets of their mains once their opponent knows their playbook. Either through heavy punishers like Steve and Kazuya knowing a characters optimal neutral or through longer disjointed attacks like Aegis not giving rushdown characters room to breath while being unable to get in. The more prevalent parry meta makes this even more difficult for rushdown characters.

  • @DaminRSW
    @DaminRSW Год назад

    homie can't be putting the ffxiv music on his vids
    jamming instead of listening...........

  • @Squidwolf
    @Squidwolf Год назад +1

    Only inkling. Also terry is not a rush down

  • @Flare8295
    @Flare8295 6 месяцев назад

    Chrom is a Swordie and Terry is a Footsie

  • @LavaCreeperPeople
    @LavaCreeperPeople Год назад +1

    I haven't played this game in over a year

  • @Winter101Storm
    @Winter101Storm Год назад +6

    "The exception to all of this, is Light. Who's single handedly keeping Fox alive by being so ridiculously cracked at the game, that by sheer force of will he just makes it work." This made me LOSE IT

  • @KrypticX27
    @KrypticX27 11 месяцев назад

    isn’t Sonic a rush down? i play him like one

  • @substitutedoll5224
    @substitutedoll5224 Год назад +1

    ROB is a rushdown character

    • @theguy6680
      @theguy6680 Год назад +2

      Rob is everything and the best character

    • @KrossTheManJ
      @KrossTheManJ Год назад +2

      Your technically wrong. Rob is a rushdown brawler zoner swordfigher bait and puni-

  • @bby7630
    @bby7630 Год назад

    I think I'm kinda done with ultimate

  • @fr0stdr4ke95
    @fr0stdr4ke95 Год назад

    12:04 So... Sonix. Honestly I'd be cool with more people playing patient and aggressive as need be.

  • @Creepo_J
    @Creepo_J Год назад

    Incineroar is bad at approaching so he can only really punish people and wall them out which makes your prioritize positioning better and microspacing for a whiff punish
    The most aggressive spot for incineroar is high above in the air adjacent to someone on the ground

  • @AestheticRagdoll
    @AestheticRagdoll Год назад

    Had to do a double take take the FF14 music playing in the background

  • @pamoon_
    @pamoon_ Год назад

    I think there is a distinction with playing rushdown properly (bobbing and weaving) and unga bunga.

  • @SolarMoth
    @SolarMoth Год назад

    slaaldad samus

  • @mdrival20
    @mdrival20 Год назад

    I’m surprised kazuya isn’t top 5 honestly the damage output is insane and his punish game with the ewgf is also insane

  • @nwang03
    @nwang03 Год назад

    Anyone know what song is playing in the background?

  • @brooksyang5834
    @brooksyang5834 Год назад

    The fact that sora is probably the worst fighters pass 2 character really says something

  • @pepper6592
    @pepper6592 Год назад

    Roy still feels too 6 to me so idk rush down still rlly good against not Steve and kaz and rob

  • @SonicTheCutehog
    @SonicTheCutehog Год назад

    Ultimate's meta shifted to the more boring characters

  • @MaggieBeaver
    @MaggieBeaver Год назад

    Do why everyone plays Dr Mario

  • @realbeetion
    @realbeetion Год назад

    I feel like a Why NO ONE Plays Duck Hunt would be interesting since as a below average smash player, he seems pretty good but on the official tier list, he's in C- tier and I'm not sure why.

    • @STONKS_MemeMan
      @STONKS_MemeMan Год назад

      Duck Hunt is essentially Zelda but worse. An extreme zoner but Dick Hunt has worse ways of escaping than Zelda if someone gets close

  • @thewarrior8497
    @thewarrior8497 Год назад

    You should make a pacman or pokemon trainer video

  • @Venom-el5ne
    @Venom-el5ne Год назад

    Can you do “Why No One Plays Bowser Jr”

  • @billclintonsmagicbeefarm
    @billclintonsmagicbeefarm Год назад

    Very based of you for the FF14 bgm

  • @xxwallzxx4509
    @xxwallzxx4509 Год назад

    Fox is still strong and sees high level play from Light. Terry is still strong and sees high level play from Riddles when he wants to. Captain Falcon is not a bad pick. The players themselves have been struggling.

    • @xavierfredericks2688
      @xavierfredericks2688 Год назад +2

      He is a lot less safe then people think because he can’t really turn and run away and his approach hitboxes are not big.

  • @Bluzlbee
    @Bluzlbee Год назад

    the risk reward ratio is too high to gamble a win

  • @winky3
    @winky3 Год назад

    not tryna horny-post but zss at 8:10 oh my goodness

  • @cardinmalone4974
    @cardinmalone4974 Год назад

    Why is Mr. Game & Watch consider as an "anti-rushdown" fighter? Can you explain this?

    • @nicklassvendsen8299
      @nicklassvendsen8299 Год назад +1

      Game & Watch is one of characters that has the strongest oos options, that leads into combos. So rushdown characters ussually takes a heavy hit from Game & Watch.

  • @CoHzus
    @CoHzus Год назад

    smartboarddddd back at it again lets go man

  • @coolkid12515
    @coolkid12515 Год назад

    most diddy kong mentions in a vars video

  • @MrM30w
    @MrM30w Год назад

    Cool video, do you want to do some 1v1s

  • @Pollocabra
    @Pollocabra Год назад

    Love the use of XIV music. Yesssss

  • @sailesh_sharma
    @sailesh_sharma Год назад

    Cosmos going back to Inkling now

  • @ZERODE11
    @ZERODE11 Год назад +2

    In my opinion there are two ways to play sonic play like a Rush down or play campy I would also call Mii brawler a Rush down because of his combos

    • @AZSprocket
      @AZSprocket Год назад +1

      Mii Brawler can be played as both a rushdown and as a brawler, depending on your specials. Give him shotput and maybe feint jump, and he is a brawler, give him any other neutral B and down B and he is a rushdown.

  • @gjgrapesmifidaniel637
    @gjgrapesmifidaniel637 Год назад

    wow the change was wierd

  • @AegisZentix
    @AegisZentix Год назад

    Music pls it’s so good 😊