*cries in Malus's possession mechanic* EDIT: oh okay he got buffs in T&T and can Confederate Malekith in second turn. I'd say he's better than both Hellebron and Lokhir now.
@@alittledeath2817 no the one I use makes it to where both sides are unique one is for city building and diplomacy the other is for war. Besides Malus's faction is already op he always runs a train through snikitch,imrik and khalida in my campaings
Or your angry purple demigod wife with anger issues that's more gullible than a 16 high schooler in a club PS Not speaking from experienced I've never hurt a child I swear
@Fourthspartan56 There is some logic in your words. But when applied to the game in which Dwarves make an allience with Skaven and High Elves invite Beastmen in a war against Empire, or when said Empire declares war on Talsyn for no reason (because apparently those -10 relations means you are their mortal enemy), you argument pales a little bit. The fact is - diplomacy in TW:WH2 is not good. And +X relations with whatever it is just much needed tool for isolationist factions like WE so AI could leave them the f alone and let them heal the damn forest.
@@pietrocogliati9705 Tomb kings needs the submod, and there are some restrictions based on the Lore. Arkhan cannot confederate with anyone, and Settra DOES NOT SERVE, which means he cannot be confederated into another faction. In summary: Khalida and Khatep can confederate each other, but not Settra, and Settra can confederate both of them.
One important factor for the flying doomstack: a buffing stalk hero(that can attack invisible). that lets you have a groundunit the enemy doesnt know about, that can still do stuff
They really should allow for all-flying armies in campaign and make this "have one on the ground" only a necessity for online/competitive battles. Yeah, it is a balance thing, but come on, sometimes you have to throw out balance for something that is either cool or makes more sense or even both.
i remember when this was also a problem with confederating belegar, where only some of the ancestor heroes would come along, seemingly at random. very annoying
@@minerva9104 Throgg aint that bad and saw Legend multiple times bashing him for not having +5 public order from Wulfrik sword. Which is laughable because not only you should but given your position you eventually WILL confederate Wulfrik and get said sword and +5 public order. Frankly maybe thats even easier as this Chain quest really needs to you to raid in Brettonia early on ... not always possible. Better if AI gets it out of ass and you confederate them. You lose Wulfrik factions traits which are very good. But its not that Throgg are really bad. And honestly ? I have used Ice Trolls on both VH and Legendary and with proper buffs / tech in Throgg army they can get literally super insanely strong. Going over 200 weapon strenght which is mostly AP ain't half bad. 0 mammoths - ice trolls, ice wyrms , fimirs , some heroes. Totally scary army. Damage output is way higher than from mammoths. You would be surprised what bunch of ice trolls can do in terms of damage with 200 ++ weapon strenght EACH. And they don't run away all that easily with Throgg and once they got some techs etc.
Or just expand it to buff all cavalry in many differant ways. Talsyn could be the Cavalry faction like how the Heralds of Ariel are the flying faction, ect ect.
I know this is from 7-8 months ago, but legit yeah. I was fighting the Sisters with Malekith and was like "why is everything shooting Volleys of Kunous at me? Why are all my Dreadspears dead before battle even starts?"
Well, it's factually what they are anyway, so it's just as likely that both went to the same conclusion without watching each others content. But perhaps it is a reference. xD
likewise! Just sucks that CA isnt able to balance their game with regards to difficulty (AI buff/player debuffs). So we all end up using some version of "legends doomstacks", just to get by in the end game :P
I hate the same thing. I love how cool units look in this game, and i just wanna watch them charge straight into their enemies. Problem is tho, if I play on lower difficulties, the game becomes really easy and boring, but if I play on harder difficulties, then most of the units that look cool start to suck pretty much. (especially the melee infantries and cav)
@@mcmarkmarkson7115 you can, actually. The way the difficulty system works is just so stupid. The AI gets immense amount of MA and MD bonuses, making your melee troops trash no matter what they're. So you're stuck with magic, ranged units and some monsters. Thet should have a different difficulty system that doesn't focus on only one or two stats
@@erensametkaratas6593 You've probably already tried this, but you can keep battle at "normal" to retain the usefulness of melee units and up the difficulty in the campaign to ensure more stacks to fight.
@@mcmarkmarkson7115 Sorry, but thats just bs... We're talking about a dev team that has 20 years of experience. Why on earth would they have units in the game that make no sense on harder difficulties, forcing the players to adopt doomstacks to ensure "safe" victories, and not use the entire top tier unit roster? I love to use cav, but on harder battle difficulties they underperform badly. I dunno... rant done :P we can agree to disagree ^^
SoT are OP on every scale. I'm on turn 80 of a legendary campaign and i used their hawk rider stack to beat Malekith black and blue. Didn't even feel skilled. Just felt like I was abusing some kind of exploit.
Every time I play as Durthu I find myself grabbing widowmaker and challenging Archaon for title of the Everchosen. Now I will do so with Ariel at my side after slaying Orion.
Drycha's own faction has some really cool insta-recruitable units (aka Wild Spirits) and apart from stupid flying cats (Manticores) they are a blast to play. Drycha boosts them a lot. Her angry Treemen Lords have additionally interesting abilities not found elsewhere providing more boosts to her special units. So she is the first Wood Elf faction I actually enjoyed playing. I get why it is difficult to rate her, but playing as Drycha turned out to be the most fun I had playing with pointy ears. In any case, good content. Thanks for the video.
I'd argue that Durthu and Drycha should have slightly higher faction power rankings because they also are getting the ability to modify forest spirits with various aspects similar to the Greenskin's scrap mechanic
Faction power ranking means what the lord brings factionwide. Those are faction mechanics so they don't count. Same reason why he didn't count Grom's Caudlron in greenskins video.
One way of making Orion better: give him the Lore of Beasts. Given that Isha has the Lore of Life and that Orion is supposed to be Kurnous incarnate, it would make actual sense. x/
@@heirofcarnage1782 gives him some extra options at least and the balance of spells can always be tweaked. Honestly he needs to be able to buff his troops, doesn't he just buff glade riders?
@@TheBarser Orion is really sub par compared to the current wood elf legendary lords, if you watch legend of total wars lord comparison he details that Orion does not bring much to the table. worth a watch.
I'm pretty stoked to play Durthu. I like the wood elves a lot (they start slow, but their armies are nigh invulnerable even at low levels), but I never played Durthu because the melee focused armies seemed too weak to me. But with amber cost for units being gone, I'm thinking I'm gonna start a Durthu campaign tonight.
Love it as always. I think another interesting one would be your take on how to fix the worst legendary lords. Like what would be great to add to Tretch, Throgg, Orion, etc that would make them viable, or at least competitive?
I've been playing Total War games since Medieval 1. Since then, the only games I've missed were Empire and Three Kingdoms. It was awesome to have new maps that expanded small areas but the WE and BM campaigns are the shortest, easiest, and most uninspired, I have ever played in a TW game. I'm glad that you enjoyed it but I didn't and the fact that there have been no more mini-campaigns since then strongly suggests that I'm not alone. Give me a couple of mini-campaigns from other factions that are actually worthwhile first and I might consider playing them again if they get brought into WH3. Emphasis on CONSIDER.
@Hotlikerobot09 I’m with you on this and Sokar (although not for it) brought up a great concept that I would enjoy. More mini map scenarios for the factions. Yes Please!!!
Why the f would they do that ? Mini map campaign are a time sink for CA that at the end of the day is not what people will play the most. That's why they stop doing it, it's a huge waste of time and resources at the cost of the main map. Thank god they took that decision. Let them focus and provide the best campaign exp possible, and most of all, let them focus on the final ME map as much as possible. It's the last game, apart from dlc we won't get WH shit anymore. Anything that takes time away from ME should be throw in the trash bin.
Oh Legend, your ability to make timely content that will get views is only equaled by your ability to cheese total war! Of course this was coming today, and of course I clicked as fast as I could. Also, when you go over those bad lords, it would be interesting to hear your take on how to improve them. I know you don't use mods, but it could inspire modders and help the rest of the community.
@@jakubwojtaszek4360 I asked mostly about his thoughts in general of the mechanic, if he think it is well made or just a bunch of superficial/not really creative buffs
@@Luizsergioprado the aspect mechanic, from my understanding, is straight from the tabletop. It’s a give and take, buff this, weaken that. I think it could be neat. And it’s nice that it can be changed on a whim, as long as you have the cash for it.
@@Luizsergioprado If I remember correctly (legend said it during the stream) he doesn't think they are as good as greenskinz scrap upgrades because they buff you but also debuff you at the same time. For example there is one spite that gives +10% physical resistance and either melee defence or leadership, but makes unit slower by 10% or something like that. Though you can swap them if situation demands it.
@@mandu6665 The real problem with Malus is that he's infinitely better when you confederate him than actually playing as Hag Graef. Confederated, you get a ludicrously powerful one-man army without any downsides, while actually playing as his faction means you have to deal with all of the nonsense with his insanity mechanic. Personally, I'd rather just have the unstoppable killing machine without the hassle.
Orion needs to be able to buff Great Stag Knights, nobody will ever use Wild Riders anymore with Great Stag Knights available. In addition he should get buffs to Lord and Hero recruitment ranks. Since he's the King of Athel Loren, and when he Calls for a Wild Hunt, only the most able Lords answer his call.
Hawk riders with SoT and Ariel + 1-2 glade captains as HoA is without a doubt a doomstack, with some of the daith items, techs, and any number of buffs including from galde cap and dark magic/ healing from Ariel, they can do anything at range or in melee
someone needs to explain to me why waywatchers seem nerfed, they went from 150% accuracy to 100% so new they can be reduced in accuracy with spells, and the trait that gives extra range to the entire army has been removed, but thats about it?
That's it pretty much, the thing is tree men kinda got buffed (w tech and wizards) so it's less that waywatchers are bad and instead that trees ar better
I think they hopefully fixed the issue with Coeddil and Drycha with the current beta patch. The problem seemed to be that he didn’t have the Immortal trait and could die at anytime. Maybe he’ll work properly now.
Other virgin Wood Elf armies: *Deer, Audreys, bigger Audreys.* Sisters of Twilight armies: *A-10 Warthogs disguised as bald eagles. Probably powered by cheeseburgers and freedom.*
I mean spellcasters usually warrant a 10/10 just for being a spellcaster, since magic is so powerful. But if you have a bad lore, or a lore that doesn't fit the faction very well, a Lord might get lower than that.
so I may have missunderstood this, but playing as Drycha it is easy af to get Coeddil.. I get him turn 11 without fail, each time I play her. Also, while you cant confed Orion or the sisters.. who needs them? they dont hold up to the Treeman Leaders maxed out anyhow... Furthermore, by turn 20 you will have already gotten Durthu, if you went to hit Karak Kadrin like a smart strategist. Drycha needs her melee upgrades to be a great melee lord, ending up being able to hold Karl franz and Manfred and Vlad down, if you add her spells to it, she can even win if done right. The biggest thing though.. the fact that she can summon the beasts. you get a 12 unit army that is pretty good, even into the late game of 500+ turns as support. Previously the only faction that could do this were the Undead.
@@zkatom3773 two bodies but one being, split between the two personalities... It's wierd. It's the opposite of Malus and Tzarkan, they are two different beings "sharing" a body. All this metaphysic nonsense is giving me a headache xD
nice for a none warhammer player this is really helpful. I think it’s cool and fair that the sisters are so good but what I saw is that they should buff Drycha on her own to be more reliable on her own and that Wild Riders should be buffed too to make Orions butt more useful he should also buff the new cavalry units aswell. I think WE cavalry is overall too weak imo from what I saw. And they have to be so diplomatic - do you really think that fits the WE’s?
What does Drycha have in common with Grom? Both are LL's released alongside a faction overhaul. In both cases, the faction can be divided into two main units types. Grom is a Goblin, that came with new Goblin units, and the faction update focused heavily on improving Gobbo's while basically ignoring Orcs. Drycha is a Forest Spirit, that comes with new Forest Spirit units, and the faction update heavily favours Tree Spirits over Elves. Two DLC/reworks in a row with the same results... suggestive of the future? Is it reasonable to expect future Orc and Elf LLs that come with an update that improves the neglected half of the respected rosters?
Drycha has a perk that lets you hire Branchwraiths from any city and at a higher level. Does that not count as a Faction bonus? Outside of her, Alarielle (and maybe Isabella, I don't remember) is the only Lord I can think of that has a perk like that. Probably others, I just don't remember
I was playing as Durthu this weekend and I used the tech tree item that cost 5k to reveal the other forests. I immediately got a confederation mission for Drycha where I had to win 5 wood elf battles. I went to the bow of oreon and sacked their place a few times and got her, but it was a little too late since she was past level 5 for Coeddil. But turns out as soon as you reveal all the maps and have the tree up to a certain level you get easy confederation missions.
I love how Orion is not only a demigod but also the defacto leader of the Wood Elves and is complete shit. The Sisters of Twilight are basically flying rocket arty, the other two lords have/are powerful tree men that can wipe units out. And then there Orion throwing a fucking stick at people.
So, in summary, being a follower of both Legend and the multiplayer scene: Orion is very good, just not in the meta of a legendary campaign. Updates and changes were built around multiplayer where mobility and maneuvering are far more important, which is fine. Drycha is much the same story. Clearly designed around Multiplayer, where she is considered S tier due to her cost effectiveness, summons and pendulum casts all of which are super valuable when playing against a competent opponent with equal resources. Bugged confederation mechanic and not being built for legendary holds her back in campaign. Durthu is kind of the opposite story. AI cant counter giant monsters like Durthu, meaning he just curbstomps entire armies and is super strong in campaign. Players have the brains to go "Hey, I should probably mow down the giant tree before he gets into melee". Taking Durthu in multiplayer against any faction that can take a cannon is practically throwing gold away, and his abysmal speed means most competent players can just kite him the whole fight. Ironically, Lore of Beasts (often referred to as "Lore of manticore summoning") was up until this update meta-breaking and practically an auto-include for any faction that can take it. Sisters of Twilight in campaign: Knife-ear Luther Harkon, flying monster with a consistent obscenely strong ranged attack and no weaknesses. Sisters of Twilight in Multiplayer: Knife-ear Luther Harkon, flying monster with a consistent obscenely strong ranged attack and no weaknesses. OP AF. Conclusion: I think CA has kind of come to the conclusion that campaign, especially on Legendary, is always going to be a janky busted meta made mostly of exploits and abusing the dumb AI and have stopped trying to build characters around it, focusing on multiplayer balancing where, lets be honest, it is a lot more important how individual legendary lords perform in battle.
I unironically think Drycha as her own faction can be better considering her non-stop aggression thanks to having access to the "necromancy" and her unique mechanics making elves expendable (still 3rd place though, as her own legendary lord and compared to all 3 other factions)
I think a way of buffing ALL LL/H is to increase the amount of attacks over time. Seeing how slow the battle animations are for LL/H is kind of sad, they should be throwing around spears, shooting arrows, whirling swords around like madmen in combat. Seeing how long it takes Orion to throw or thrust a spear is just awful.
@@CharalamposKoundourakis I’m talking about actually watching them in battle. Watching their motions is like watching old people try and play cricket. Which is already boring.
Drycha gives frenzy to the tree doomstack for all armies though (also aspects, but Durthu does that too). Also she has a unique tech that gives all the malicious treemen the murder of spites 'mortis engine' like effect. (technically there's the other tech that gives them deathblow so they're stronger when they're close to death as well) So she gives huge buffs to THE doomstack unit
The Twins are absolute monsters. The hawkrider arrow of kuranos is a infantry blender. Cant spam them but they are really useful when youre commanding the army.
honestly think SoT should be 10/10 if you are playing there faction because the Daith armory mechanic is incredibly powerful. I just finished my vortex camp and got as far as im aware of all the items Daith can make. a lot of the items are incredibly strong, especially the pendant that heals and it can be used infinitely every 90 secs and its legendary upgrade is as strong as overcast regrowth, and the fact that the items arent SoT exclusive meaning you can put them on any character is insane. also even after Daith has made everything he can for each respective item slot he then periodically will just boost every elf unit across the faction depending on which upgrade you get. SoT are stronk as hell
Doesn't orion also come with the wild hunt mechanic? Or do they all get that? It's also worth noting that he never breaks, which, combined with his general strength and his new damage resistance, makes him a really reliable combat lord. The +5% missile strength is also a pretty big game, imo. I'm not saying he's the best thing ever, but I don't really see that he needs to be improved, either. I also totally don't get the wild rider flame. I see them used all time in multiplayer, and they always perform amazingly. A vanguard deployed, fast, hard-hitting cav unit will always be good in the campaign, and is a necessary ingredient for ranger and waywatcher kiting. All that being said, I have to agree Orion would be 4th here, compared with all the more potent things going on for the other lords. The sisters sound freaking op.
Been going through these LL ranking vids you did. If you haven't already, maybe you should do a special campaign mechanic rankings separately, since you understandably disregard them in the LL rankings. I'd watch that.
Pretty sure that sister of twilights shot description, either the single target or the spread can't remember right now, specifically says it can damage structures. Just cause you said they can't destroy walls.
I feel like you kind of missed that all of Drycha's tree spirits get frenzy. She also has a unique tech that gives all Treemen a mortis engine effect. Her tree spirits are hands down much better than Durthu's.
Bruh you should make TIME STAMPS. I kinda watched/heard the video while doing other stuff and I noticed I missed Ariel entirely. Unless you didn't talk about her, but then I distinctly remember you talking about Coeddil?
The drycha evaluation is a bit meh, just ignore the case of confederating her! Based solely on starting as Drycha, you have no problems getting both Coedil and confederating Durthu. And her best power isn't part of her character, but the faction: the frenzy version of tree spirits AND buffs to spiders and wolves. True about Life magic, but having Life AND Shadow doesn't hurt! (well, the enemies...) I think Orion is fine, it adds to replayability of woodelves to go for different units for once. Or mostly ranged and just a few to mop up.
I always liked to use the hawk riders ability from the sisters a lot early in the game. Running around with 4 of them in Ana ent let me open a salvo and destroy the opponents ranger units as fast as I could so then my hawk riders and archers could safely put arrows in everything.
Will you do more of those ? Very interesting and informative video. Would be amazing to see this kind of stuff for tomb kings, vampire pirates and vampire counts. Would be amazing
Legend, what's your opinion on the Meme-tastic hawk rider spam with the Sisters of Twilight? Dragon spam is definitely better, but I'm wondering if hawk-riders can at least be valuable in their army specifically.
IDK if dragon spam is better. Volley of Kurnous is ridiculously strong right now, and Hawk Riders are much cheaper. Rocking 11 Hawk Riders with the Sisters ATM, going to replace all units with them eventually.
Lore of missle! lore of MISSILE, Carl!? OMG what's next? Lore of hamburgers or lore of bus tickets? Srsly, never played wood elves, though we have only ortodoxal LORES of 7 winds, mixed magic of high and dark. Ashin's lore of assasination or whatever looks like just a ninja techniques.
Well, Orion got Damage Resistance 20% instead of Missile Resistance 20%, which is something. He is ok to confederate i guess, to get that +5% to missile damage. If he gives the bonus while he is fired from your roster, its better to just keep him there on standby, ready to be recruited when something somewhere needs defending. That way he can quickly raise armies with his trait and be fired again.
"Orion is one of the worst lords in the game" , rates him 8, 5, 5
*Cries in tretch*
he did already said tretch is the WORSE of them all tho.
*cries in Malus's possession mechanic*
EDIT: oh okay he got buffs in T&T and can Confederate Malekith in second turn. I'd say he's better than both Hellebron and Lokhir now.
@@alittledeath2817 laughs in mods
@@Byzantine_Orthodox_Christian Iirc the mods that fix it just make it op and it's still boring
@@alittledeath2817 no the one I use makes it to where both sides are unique one is for city building and diplomacy the other is for war. Besides Malus's faction is already op he always runs a train through snikitch,imrik and khalida in my campaings
Orion looks like a Beastman thats why CA keeps shafting him.
lol, good one sir
Is Orion gonna go on Life Support like Morghur The Dark Omen?
lmao
Don´t offend the beastmen, they look better than that abomination.
@@blackmoon2128 what is your deal with Mel Gibson?
imagine being a demigod and being lower down than a angry purple shrub with anger issues
Or your angry purple demigod wife with anger issues that's more gullible than a 16 high schooler in a club
PS Not speaking from experienced I've never hurt a child I swear
A shrub with tits. WHY THE FUCK DOES A TREE HAVE TITS
@@lennartk6714 because spirits are mammals too of course
Pretty sure drycha is older than Orion by a long shot, making her like super ancient shrub mom
He took the shaft of his own spear! xD
I just find it funny that CA nerfing diplomacy for all WE makes Sisters more valuable because of their +15 diplo with Elven factions.
You know what they say: if you want someone to feel good - harm them, and then do as it was before. Powercreep in all its glory. And artificial too.
@Fourthspartan56 There is some logic in your words. But when applied to the game in which Dwarves make an allience with Skaven and High Elves invite Beastmen in a war against Empire, or when said Empire declares war on Talsyn for no reason (because apparently those -10 relations means you are their mortal enemy), you argument pales a little bit. The fact is - diplomacy in TW:WH2 is not good. And +X relations with whatever it is just much needed tool for isolationist factions like WE so AI could leave them the f alone and let them heal the damn forest.
@@Vasiliy9hells before sisters of twilight I wouldn't have thought to play wood elf campaign. Now it is an actuak good campaign.
All I know or care about with Drycha is that, from my understanding, she can use all the elf units as expendables. All I needed to hear.
Not all of them, there are some restrictions. But yeah, the fact that they get expendable is awesome
@@carloscaballeromoreno4853 I will so play drycha lmao.
Just started to get really into TW: W2, can you explain to a noob what a unit being expendable means?
@@Jigsaw550 It means that there is no morale penalty to your army when they die.
@@brandongranger3849 except for other expendable units
Happy to see Optimus Pine isnt low
Underrated comment
I give your naming of him a 10/10
One more reason to be thankful for "Legendary Confederations" mod.
does it work? i tried with tomb king but i could only confederate some of the other
@@pietrocogliati9705 Tomb kings needs the submod, and there are some restrictions based on the Lore. Arkhan cannot confederate with anyone, and Settra DOES NOT SERVE, which means he cannot be confederated into another faction. In summary: Khalida and Khatep can confederate each other, but not Settra, and Settra can confederate both of them.
I use one that allows me to recruit the LL's of destroyed factions if they belong to my race.
@@pietrocogliati9705 You need submods to use it with Tomb Kings and Vampire Coast.
personally I prefer "recruit defeated lords"
Looking at you teclis, imrik
A dragon with duel-wield eagle-claw bolt thrower took the 1st place, who would have thought.
To be fair sisters are better on Gwindalor
@@alittledeath2817 A Great Eagle with dual-wielded eagle-claw bolt throwers that also summons a dragon*.
@@ElementalEnergyWolf I just imagined bolt throwers shooting dragons that also have noxious breath. Amazing
Hey dad
The crazy thing is that they can still shoot while in melee
One important factor for the flying doomstack: a buffing stalk hero(that can attack invisible).
that lets you have a groundunit the enemy doesnt know about, that can still do stuff
good thing the wood elves have a nice stalking hero for the eagle rider doomstack with 48 volleys of kournos...
They really should allow for all-flying armies in campaign and make this "have one on the ground" only a necessity for online/competitive battles. Yeah, it is a balance thing, but come on, sometimes you have to throw out balance for something that is either cool or makes more sense or even both.
They really should make coedil recruitable if you have confederated drycha. Otherwise its just too random
Yeah but that would be weird from a lore perspective
i remember when this was also a problem with confederating belegar, where only some of the ancestor heroes would come along, seemingly at random. very annoying
wouldn't you be able to get Coedill from her questline though?
@@Eclipsed_Embers You would, but she unlocks the item for the quest at rank 5, it's very unlikely you'll confed her before then.
Wait for one or two weeks, the DLC is releasing in 3h30, I bet some modder will fix it. Would be nice if CA does it on their own though
Might aswell go all the way now for all races, with the new patch and whatnot :)
Cant wait to see the Norsca lord ranking.
@@holdinmcgroin8639 ha
@@holdinmcgroin8639 Throgg naturally gets an 11/10 because hes just that good.
@@minerva9104 You mis-read it. 1.1/10 is legends ranking.
@@minerva9104 Throgg aint that bad and saw Legend multiple times bashing him for not having +5 public order from Wulfrik sword. Which is laughable because not only you should but given your position you eventually WILL confederate Wulfrik and get said sword and +5 public order. Frankly maybe thats even easier as this Chain quest really needs to you to raid in Brettonia early on ... not always possible. Better if AI gets it out of ass and you confederate them. You lose Wulfrik factions traits which are very good. But its not that Throgg are really bad. And honestly ? I have used Ice Trolls on both VH and Legendary and with proper buffs / tech in Throgg army they can get literally super insanely strong. Going over 200 weapon strenght which is mostly AP ain't half bad. 0 mammoths - ice trolls, ice wyrms , fimirs , some heroes. Totally scary army. Damage output is way higher than from mammoths. You would be surprised what bunch of ice trolls can do in terms of damage with 200 ++ weapon strenght EACH. And they don't run away all that easily with Throgg and once they got some techs etc.
"King of the woods" should have applied to great stag knights as well
And to the new glade riders too. It would help with the early game.
Or just expand it to buff all cavalry in many differant ways. Talsyn could be the Cavalry faction like how the Heralds of Ariel are the flying faction, ect ect.
Boi, that Volley of Kurnous Hawk Rider spam needs to be felt firsthand to understand how powerful the Sisters are as faction leaders.
I agree. It feels like hands-down one of the most overpowered doomstacks for me right now.
I know this is from 7-8 months ago, but legit yeah. I was fighting the Sisters with Malekith and was like "why is everything shooting Volleys of Kunous at me? Why are all my Dreadspears dead before battle even starts?"
14:55: “They remind me to flying eagle claw botl throwers” Is that a reference to Tarifff????
Well, it's factually what they are anyway, so it's just as likely that both went to the same conclusion without watching each others content. But perhaps it is a reference. xD
I mean their shots are very similiar and changing their ammo has literally the same symbol.
Doesn't Drycha have a unique tech that gives all tree units in faction poison attacks? That's huge buff for her army
I've been waiting for this. Thank you!!!
Man I hope someone mods Orion to give him bonuses fitting of a freaking avatar of Kurnous.
Ouch, Orion
Definitely do a tomb kings power comparison. I love playing as them and want to hear your thoughts on them.
It's a pity for Orion and Wild riders, they are super cool. I'll play them on lower difficulties to enjoy to epic stag charges.
likewise! Just sucks that CA isnt able to balance their game with regards to difficulty (AI buff/player debuffs). So we all end up using some version of "legends doomstacks", just to get by in the end game :P
I hate the same thing. I love how cool units look in this game, and i just wanna watch them charge straight into their enemies. Problem is tho, if I play on lower difficulties, the game becomes really easy and boring, but if I play on harder difficulties, then most of the units that look cool start to suck pretty much. (especially the melee infantries and cav)
@@mcmarkmarkson7115 you can, actually. The way the difficulty system works is just so stupid. The AI gets immense amount of MA and MD bonuses, making your melee troops trash no matter what they're. So you're stuck with magic, ranged units and some monsters. Thet should have a different difficulty system that doesn't focus on only one or two stats
@@erensametkaratas6593 You've probably already tried this, but you can keep battle at "normal" to retain the usefulness of melee units and up the difficulty in the campaign to ensure more stacks to fight.
@@mcmarkmarkson7115 Sorry, but thats just bs... We're talking about a dev team that has 20 years of experience. Why on earth would they have units in the game that make no sense on harder difficulties, forcing the players to adopt doomstacks to ensure "safe" victories, and not use the entire top tier unit roster? I love to use cav, but on harder battle difficulties they underperform badly. I dunno... rant done :P we can agree to disagree ^^
Dam you've been on that content grind the last few weeks. Thanks for the reviews and effort you put in man!
Now we wait for Counts lizardmen and Humans. I love listening to your explanations of all this stuff.
Love these vids.
I imagine that Sisters of Twilight must be OP on small unit scale.
SoT are OP on every scale. I'm on turn 80 of a legendary campaign and i used their hawk rider stack to beat Malekith black and blue. Didn't even feel skilled. Just felt like I was abusing some kind of exploit.
Every time I play as Durthu I find myself grabbing widowmaker and challenging Archaon for title of the Everchosen. Now I will do so with Ariel at my side after slaying Orion.
We need Drycha This Is Total War campaign.
Legend has expressed his distaste for This is Total War campaigns countless of times on his livestreams, I doubt we'll see one anytime soon, if ever.
@@aliasonarcotics he will make a new one eventually but they are for special occasions.
Drycha TITW? Eh, she's surrounded by Empire provinces and vampires, she can't win both at the same time...
@@dostayer3369 she can't... But Legend can, yes-yes
I shudder to think of a This Is Total War campaign as Wood Elves because of their crappy garrisons. Must be a waking nightmare!
Drycha's own faction has some really cool insta-recruitable units (aka Wild Spirits) and apart from stupid flying cats (Manticores) they are a blast to play. Drycha boosts them a lot. Her angry Treemen Lords have additionally interesting abilities not found elsewhere providing more boosts to her special units. So she is the first Wood Elf faction I actually enjoyed playing. I get why it is difficult to rate her, but playing as Drycha turned out to be the most fun I had playing with pointy ears. In any case, good content. Thanks for the video.
I'd argue that Durthu and Drycha should have slightly higher faction power rankings because they also are getting the ability to modify forest spirits with various aspects similar to the Greenskin's scrap mechanic
Faction power ranking means what the lord brings factionwide. Those are faction mechanics so they don't count. Same reason why he didn't count Grom's Caudlron in greenskins video.
LegendofTotalWar
: once again dlc a lord is leading a head of its race.
Me: but the entire wood elf faction is a DLC as well
Technically so is all of the warhammer 1 factions to the 2nd game
One way of making Orion better: give him the Lore of Beasts. Given that Isha has the Lore of Life and that Orion is supposed to be Kurnous incarnate, it would make actual sense. x/
Thats a pretty damn good idea actually
I mean it wouldn't make him much better. Lore of beasts is meh, in practice that just means he has to spread his skill points out even more.
@@heirofcarnage1782 gives him some extra options at least and the balance of spells can always be tweaked.
Honestly he needs to be able to buff his troops, doesn't he just buff glade riders?
He is good enough
@@TheBarser Orion is really sub par compared to the current wood elf legendary lords, if you watch legend of total wars lord comparison he details that Orion does not bring much to the table. worth a watch.
I'm pretty stoked to play Durthu. I like the wood elves a lot (they start slow, but their armies are nigh invulnerable even at low levels), but I never played Durthu because the melee focused armies seemed too weak to me. But with amber cost for units being gone, I'm thinking I'm gonna start a Durthu campaign tonight.
"here we have Mel Gibson aka Orion" lolll
I dont get it
@@reverseimagesearch0results363 Orion looks like young Mel Gibson
Nobody notice this little "pop" at 14:12 ?
Well done Legend, i am laughing at the joke x)
Hahahaha! I missed that. Thanks! :) Made me laugh out loud.
LegendofTotalWar: Lets me see how Total War factions play, without playing them myself since 2012.
Love it as always. I think another interesting one would be your take on how to fix the worst legendary lords. Like what would be great to add to Tretch, Throgg, Orion, etc that would make them viable, or at least competitive?
That's easy.
1. Buff Ranged units
2. Buff SEM
3. Be caster
The end.
One power comparison after the other, thanks for getting these out Legend!
I really hope in WH3 they bring the wood elves and beast man mini campaigns into the game.
I've been playing Total War games since Medieval 1. Since then, the only games I've missed were Empire and Three Kingdoms. It was awesome to have new maps that expanded small areas but the WE and BM campaigns are the shortest, easiest, and most uninspired, I have ever played in a TW game. I'm glad that you enjoyed it but I didn't and the fact that there have been no more mini-campaigns since then strongly suggests that I'm not alone.
Give me a couple of mini-campaigns from other factions that are actually worthwhile first and I might consider playing them again if they get brought into WH3. Emphasis on CONSIDER.
@Hotlikerobot09 I’m with you on this and Sokar (although not for it) brought up a great concept that I would enjoy. More mini map scenarios for the factions. Yes Please!!!
Why the f would they do that ? Mini map campaign are a time sink for CA that at the end of the day is not what people will play the most.
That's why they stop doing it, it's a huge waste of time and resources at the cost of the main map. Thank god they took that decision.
Let them focus and provide the best campaign exp possible, and most of all, let them focus on the final ME map as much as possible. It's the last game, apart from dlc we won't get WH shit anymore. Anything that takes time away from ME should be throw in the trash bin.
Oh Legend, your ability to make timely content that will get views is only equaled by your ability to cheese total war! Of course this was coming today, and of course I clicked as fast as I could. Also, when you go over those bad lords, it would be interesting to hear your take on how to improve them. I know you don't use mods, but it could inspire modders and help the rest of the community.
Durthu is always amazing. And look at those animations, this guy is awesome.
would love to see more legendary lord power comparison videos including one for the empire
i enjoy watching these alot. its really annoying digging thru the game to figure out what lords skill trees look like.
The +1 uses for volley of kurnous can boost hero's and lords that have that as well right? not just their special eagle.
Fairly sure Volley of Kurnous is the version for Hawk riders that is specific to their faction
@@keleral388 ooh the other one is arrows of kurnous?
@@lincolnmyth1342 Yeah the volley is Sisters specific for Hawk Riders. Characters use "Arrow of Kurnous".
Cannot wait for you to make a Beastmen Lord Power Comparison when the rework comes :)
Vampire counts next, plese. Would be very interesting Vlad vs Manfred. + they have also half legendary lord and its Red duke.
Hey legend, would you consider doing a "best/worst generic lord" for each faction?
One thing Legend, how do you evaluate/your thoughts on that "scrap " mechanic that Durthu and Drycha received?
He doesn't count those since they are their faction mechanic not lord mechanic.
@@jakubwojtaszek4360 I asked mostly about his thoughts in general of the mechanic, if he think it is well made or just a bunch of superficial/not really creative buffs
@@Luizsergioprado the aspect mechanic, from my understanding, is straight from the tabletop. It’s a give and take, buff this, weaken that. I think it could be neat. And it’s nice that it can be changed on a whim, as long as you have the cash for it.
@@Luizsergioprado If I remember correctly (legend said it during the stream) he doesn't think they are as good as greenskinz scrap upgrades because they buff you but also debuff you at the same time. For example there is one spite that gives +10% physical resistance and either melee defence or leadership, but makes unit slower by 10% or something like that.
Though you can swap them if situation demands it.
Legend you're a content machine! Love these.
Hey Legend, I hope you'll be doing these power comparisons for all factions :)
I really enjoy these videos
Can't wait for the next one !
hope you keep these power comparisons up!
Legend, have you changed your mind about the Dark Elves Lord rankings, now that you have played as the immortal, one man army Malice?
10/10 in battle. 0/10 for everything else.
@@mandu6665 But then commander power is 10/10 as well because you can not buff your army if you are the army.
@@mandu6665 The real problem with Malus is that he's infinitely better when you confederate him than actually playing as Hag Graef. Confederated, you get a ludicrously powerful one-man army without any downsides, while actually playing as his faction means you have to deal with all of the nonsense with his insanity mechanic.
Personally, I'd rather just have the unstoppable killing machine without the hassle.
Orion needs to be able to buff Great Stag Knights, nobody will ever use Wild Riders anymore with Great Stag Knights available. In addition he should get buffs to Lord and Hero recruitment ranks. Since he's the King of Athel Loren, and when he Calls for a Wild Hunt, only the most able Lords answer his call.
Hawk riders with SoT and Ariel + 1-2 glade captains as HoA is without a doubt a doomstack, with some of the daith items, techs, and any number of buffs including from galde cap and dark magic/ healing from Ariel, they can do anything at range or in melee
Please do a lord comparison video for the Vampire Counts. They're probably my favorite race and I'd be interested to see how you rank them :)
i was just thinking how much i'd like a video like this. thanks.
someone needs to explain to me why waywatchers seem nerfed, they went from 150% accuracy to 100% so new they can be reduced in accuracy with spells, and the trait that gives extra range to the entire army has been removed, but thats about it?
That's it pretty much, the thing is tree men kinda got buffed (w tech and wizards) so it's less that waywatchers are bad and instead that trees ar better
They also removed the weapon/missile strength building from outposts. Not having extreme range is rather large nerf.
I think they hopefully fixed the issue with Coeddil and Drycha with the current beta patch.
The problem seemed to be that he didn’t have the Immortal trait and could die at anytime. Maybe he’ll work properly now.
Still waiting on the dwarves legendary lord comparison
Other virgin Wood Elf armies: *Deer, Audreys, bigger Audreys.*
Sisters of Twilight armies: *A-10 Warthogs disguised as bald eagles. Probably powered by cheeseburgers and freedom.*
9/10 FOR A SPELL CASTER...THATS A FAIRLY LOW...Am i on meth... help someone, please
I mean spellcasters usually warrant a 10/10 just for being a spellcaster, since magic is so powerful. But if you have a bad lore, or a lore that doesn't fit the faction very well, a Lord might get lower than that.
so I may have missunderstood this, but playing as Drycha it is easy af to get Coeddil.. I get him turn 11 without fail, each time I play her. Also, while you cant confed Orion or the sisters.. who needs them? they dont hold up to the Treeman Leaders maxed out anyhow... Furthermore, by turn 20 you will have already gotten Durthu, if you went to hit Karak Kadrin like a smart strategist.
Drycha needs her melee upgrades to be a great melee lord, ending up being able to hold Karl franz and Manfred and Vlad down, if you add her spells to it, she can even win if done right.
The biggest thing though.. the fact that she can summon the beasts. you get a 12 unit army that is pretty good, even into the late game of 500+ turns as support. Previously the only faction that could do this were the Undead.
Legend has to really decide if the Sisters of Twilight are they or a she.
Terchnically both are correct considering their backstory.
They are two persons so yeah they.
@@zkatom3773 two bodies but one being, split between the two personalities... It's wierd. It's the opposite of Malus and Tzarkan, they are two different beings "sharing" a body. All this metaphysic nonsense is giving me a headache xD
@@TheRewasder97 You see two bodies with two personalities so just call them they lol, not that difficult.
@what's left of Stalin I am bad at grammar. now time for pronounce twitter bad.
Empire or Bretonia would be most welcomed next. Looking forward to what you do next regardless of the faction though
nice for a none warhammer player this is really helpful. I think it’s cool and fair that the sisters are so good but what I saw is that they should buff Drycha on her own to be more reliable on her own and that Wild Riders should be buffed too to make Orions butt more useful he should also buff the new cavalry units aswell. I think WE cavalry is overall too weak imo from what I saw. And they have to be so diplomatic - do you really think that fits the WE’s?
What does Drycha have in common with Grom?
Both are LL's released alongside a faction overhaul. In both cases, the faction can be divided into two main units types. Grom is a Goblin, that came with new Goblin units, and the faction update focused heavily on improving Gobbo's while basically ignoring Orcs. Drycha is a Forest Spirit, that comes with new Forest Spirit units, and the faction update heavily favours Tree Spirits over Elves.
Two DLC/reworks in a row with the same results... suggestive of the future? Is it reasonable to expect future Orc and Elf LLs that come with an update that improves the neglected half of the respected rosters?
Ehm, do you think they might buff Orion a bit for the final release or in a close patch?
And btw, all wood elf lords are dlc lords
That last thing had me laughing, like everybody forgot about that :D
Great breakdown, good infos, thanks!
Drycha has a perk that lets you hire Branchwraiths from any city and at a higher level. Does that not count as a Faction bonus?
Outside of her, Alarielle (and maybe Isabella, I don't remember) is the only Lord I can think of that has a perk like that. Probably others, I just don't remember
Number 4 goes to Mel Gibson
immediately laughed, heard it a million times still hilarious
I honestly like these video not for the rankings but the individual break downs on the lords
Love the comparison vids man!
I was playing as Durthu this weekend and I used the tech tree item that cost 5k to reveal the other forests. I immediately got a confederation mission for Drycha where I had to win 5 wood elf battles. I went to the bow of oreon and sacked their place a few times and got her, but it was a little too late since she was past level 5 for Coeddil. But turns out as soon as you reveal all the maps and have the tree up to a certain level you get easy confederation missions.
I love how Orion is not only a demigod but also the defacto leader of the Wood Elves and is complete shit. The Sisters of Twilight are basically flying rocket arty, the other two lords have/are powerful tree men that can wipe units out. And then there Orion throwing a fucking stick at people.
So, in summary, being a follower of both Legend and the multiplayer scene:
Orion is very good, just not in the meta of a legendary campaign. Updates and changes were built around multiplayer where mobility and maneuvering are far more important, which is fine.
Drycha is much the same story. Clearly designed around Multiplayer, where she is considered S tier due to her cost effectiveness, summons and pendulum casts all of which are super valuable when playing against a competent opponent with equal resources. Bugged confederation mechanic and not being built for legendary holds her back in campaign.
Durthu is kind of the opposite story. AI cant counter giant monsters like Durthu, meaning he just curbstomps entire armies and is super strong in campaign. Players have the brains to go "Hey, I should probably mow down the giant tree before he gets into melee". Taking Durthu in multiplayer against any faction that can take a cannon is practically throwing gold away, and his abysmal speed means most competent players can just kite him the whole fight. Ironically, Lore of Beasts (often referred to as "Lore of manticore summoning") was up until this update meta-breaking and practically an auto-include for any faction that can take it.
Sisters of Twilight in campaign: Knife-ear Luther Harkon, flying monster with a consistent obscenely strong ranged attack and no weaknesses. Sisters of Twilight in Multiplayer: Knife-ear Luther Harkon, flying monster with a consistent obscenely strong ranged attack and no weaknesses. OP AF.
Conclusion: I think CA has kind of come to the conclusion that campaign, especially on Legendary, is always going to be a janky busted meta made mostly of exploits and abusing the dumb AI and have stopped trying to build characters around it, focusing on multiplayer balancing where, lets be honest, it is a lot more important how individual legendary lords perform in battle.
Some good points but his faction traits and his unique skill line don't matter for mp. They gave him some absolute crap for sp.
Counterpoint: less than 5% of players play multiplayer and if CA balances around it then they screw over the vast majority of the playerbase.
I unironically think Drycha as her own faction can be better considering her non-stop aggression thanks to having access to the "necromancy" and her unique mechanics making elves expendable (still 3rd place though, as her own legendary lord and compared to all 3 other factions)
Thanks again Legend for another great video!
I think a way of buffing ALL LL/H is to increase the amount of attacks over time. Seeing how slow the battle animations are for LL/H is kind of sad, they should be throwing around spears, shooting arrows, whirling swords around like madmen in combat.
Seeing how long it takes Orion to throw or thrust a spear is just awful.
Combat power is a small part of it, heroes are already plenty strong. Orian needs faction buffs.
@@CharalamposKoundourakis I’m talking about actually watching them in battle. Watching their motions is like watching old people try and play cricket. Which is already boring.
@@lewishorsman2219 If you have time paying that much attention to your Lords/Heroes fighting then your battles are too easy.
This is the best content from you in a while!
may i suggest a legendary hero tier list? id like to see how they all match up to eachother
He's gonna start a new series 'legendary hero power comparison' for each faction
I love these lord comparisons. Please do vampire counts!
Drycha gives frenzy to the tree doomstack for all armies though (also aspects, but Durthu does that too). Also she has a unique tech that gives all the malicious treemen the murder of spites 'mortis engine' like effect. (technically there's the other tech that gives them deathblow so they're stronger when they're close to death as well)
So she gives huge buffs to THE doomstack unit
The Twins are absolute monsters. The hawkrider arrow of kuranos is a infantry blender. Cant spam them but they are really useful when youre commanding the army.
Time for the Dawi. I can never seem to choose between them
Another great vid Legend
honestly think SoT should be 10/10 if you are playing there faction because the Daith armory mechanic is incredibly powerful. I just finished my vortex camp and got as far as im aware of all the items Daith can make. a lot of the items are incredibly strong, especially the pendant that heals and it can be used infinitely every 90 secs and its legendary upgrade is as strong as overcast regrowth, and the fact that the items arent SoT exclusive meaning you can put them on any character is insane. also even after Daith has made everything he can for each respective item slot he then periodically will just boost every elf unit across the faction depending on which upgrade you get. SoT are stronk as hell
Orion gettin all pumped up listening to the smack 1:45 :D
Doesn't orion also come with the wild hunt mechanic? Or do they all get that? It's also worth noting that he never breaks, which, combined with his general strength and his new damage resistance, makes him a really reliable combat lord. The +5% missile strength is also a pretty big game, imo. I'm not saying he's the best thing ever, but I don't really see that he needs to be improved, either.
I also totally don't get the wild rider flame. I see them used all time in multiplayer, and they always perform amazingly. A vanguard deployed, fast, hard-hitting cav unit will always be good in the campaign, and is a necessary ingredient for ranger and waywatcher kiting.
All that being said, I have to agree Orion would be 4th here, compared with all the more potent things going on for the other lords. The sisters sound freaking op.
Good point. The wild hunt is his thing. Though it is his faction thing, so well. But still he is a good lord, just not the best to confederate
Been going through these LL ranking vids you did. If you haven't already, maybe you should do a special campaign mechanic rankings separately, since you understandably disregard them in the LL rankings. I'd watch that.
Also +1000 points for the choice of music in 9:40 :v
do you know the name of that music ? i couldn't find it anywhere
Pretty sure that sister of twilights shot description, either the single target or the spread can't remember right now, specifically says it can damage structures. Just cause you said they can't destroy walls.
I feel like you kind of missed that all of Drycha's tree spirits get frenzy. She also has a unique tech that gives all Treemen a mortis engine effect. Her tree spirits are hands down much better than Durthu's.
Legend plays with single entities or range, Frenzy is melee so....
@@generalharness8266 Treemen are single entities and get frenzy, I don't see your point
Bruh you should make TIME STAMPS.
I kinda watched/heard the video while doing other stuff and I noticed I missed Ariel entirely.
Unless you didn't talk about her, but then I distinctly remember you talking about Coeddil?
The drycha evaluation is a bit meh, just ignore the case of confederating her! Based solely on starting as Drycha, you have no problems getting both Coedil and confederating Durthu. And her best power isn't part of her character, but the faction: the frenzy version of tree spirits AND buffs to spiders and wolves. True about Life magic, but having Life AND Shadow doesn't hurt! (well, the enemies...)
I think Orion is fine, it adds to replayability of woodelves to go for different units for once. Or mostly ranged and just a few to mop up.
I always liked to use the hawk riders ability from the sisters a lot early in the game. Running around with 4 of them in Ana ent let me open a salvo and destroy the opponents ranger units as fast as I could so then my hawk riders and archers could safely put arrows in everything.
Will you do more of those ? Very interesting and informative video. Would be amazing to see this kind of stuff for tomb kings, vampire pirates and vampire counts. Would be amazing
Legend, what's your opinion on the Meme-tastic hawk rider spam with the Sisters of Twilight? Dragon spam is definitely better, but I'm wondering if hawk-riders can at least be valuable in their army specifically.
IDK if dragon spam is better. Volley of Kurnous is ridiculously strong right now, and Hawk Riders are much cheaper. Rocking 11 Hawk Riders with the Sisters ATM, going to replace all units with them eventually.
Lore friendly stuff cringes about ur broken 0 skill builds 24/7 xd no surprises people is that bad on multiplayer tho 🤪
Lore of missle! lore of MISSILE, Carl!? OMG what's next? Lore of hamburgers or lore of bus tickets? Srsly, never played wood elves, though we have only ortodoxal LORES of 7 winds, mixed magic of high and dark. Ashin's lore of assasination or whatever looks like just a ninja techniques.
Well, Orion got Damage Resistance 20% instead of Missile Resistance 20%, which is something. He is ok to confederate i guess, to get that +5% to missile damage. If he gives the bonus while he is fired from your roster, its better to just keep him there on standby, ready to be recruited when something somewhere needs defending. That way he can quickly raise armies with his trait and be fired again.
Orion has also the kinda busted cloak of isha that makes him almost unkillable until he reaches his healing cap
The subtitles are pure comedy
Well, it is bound to happen, that a dlc lord, from a dlc faction is on the first place.