”Twists” are only successful when the writer has the skill to provide the audience with all the information, clues and foreshadowing they need to see the twist coming yet still manage to surprise them when it unfolds. Internal logical consistency is key, anything else is hacky Deus ex machina and disrespectful to the audience. The mark of true success is to have the audience derive pleasure long after viewing the movie or reading the novel by discussing and debating this ”twist”. It’s like the satisfaction one derives in solving a puzzle. We should respect our audience enough to strive to always put this much effort into our writing.
What popped out of this episode was the idea of coming up with a character first, and then writing a story that challenges that character's fears and needs. It's more than a character-driven story, it's a character-created story. Film Courage always gives me new ideas and techniques to consider when writing a story.
Here's a process that always helps me: 1) Figure out my genre 2) Come up with a theme that the genre works with well 3) Create a character that embodies the theme 4) Finally, construct a plot that facilitates the character embodying the theme Genre conjures Theme Theme creates Character Character guides Plot Plot reveals Character Character embodies Theme Theme fits Genre
I feel like a lot of new stories, instead of focusing on plot *or* characters, now prioritise themes, and characters now act in seemingly shallow, uninteresting, or illogical ways in order to project the theme. Themes, I find, are completely pointless if you don't care about the characters exploring them, and sadly, I've noticed a lot of character depth and design has been sacrificed in order to place the theme front and centre. 'What is the show/movie trying to say as a statement?' seems to be the priority more so now than 'How much do you empathise with the character?' or even 'What events took place?' - It's a simile to post-modernism, where it's not at all about the art itself, but what the art is trying to say. The new Star Wars is a great example of this to me, where I feel the characters don't have a lot of interesting traits. They seem to react how the story/themes needs them to react, rather than simply reacting based on their own character and what they've experienced, which leaves me thinking they are either shallow, or worse, not believable.
I read the first third of this post and my immediate thought was The Last Jedi. A movie that seems to have decided its themes and plot elements first, and contrived and contorted everything else to fit those molds... and it just doesn't work.
I came up with my long list of characters a while back, and one day I decided I wanted to start writing. The plot came to me pretty easily, because with a wide range of defined characters, I could just have them do what they would normally do in the situation. It's nice to have someone point out that my writing method is valid.
I really do believe that letting your characters, that you've created, create the story is profoundly more impactful than making a plot and forcing your characters to be molded in a way that fits that plot.
@@oldmanjinkinsskyrim737 character driven stories are characters that have character growth and major change in their personalities the most common tend to be the redemption arc, plot driven characters are characters used to drive the plot things just happen sometimes they tend to be plot device an example of this is joker from dc comics the writers use and write him as a plot device in MOST of the stories and feels less like a character another example is johan liebert from monster he had major plot armour throughout the whole series.
Really great interview! Character informs plot and helps the writer avoid contrived situations. That was my main takeaway and he does a good job of making his case. I think he’s also got the right idea about twists. The twist is definitely the most prized aspect of a good/memorable film, but perhaps not for the reasons he implies. I think audiences are entertained by the ‘the twist’ because it’s a glimpse at a new idea. Whenever we don’t see something coming, especially an ending, that signals to me that the writer was thinking outside the box. Something we’ve all been told is not possible because apparently there are no more original ideas. Go figure. So in essence ‘the twist’ is a glimmer of hope that reminds us creativity is still possible.
The best thing about your channel is that these videos are usually relevant to the scene, question or problem I am facing on that day. Thank you for answering these important questions.
Everyone has what works for them. Personally, I like to start with a character and a basic idea of how the story starts and ends and then follow the character around to see where he/she leads me.
It's so true...and I've seen it in film, when an outline of events is created first, and the character is forced to behave a certain way to fit the outline, you end up with characters that do things that are against their personality, against their nature. It's confusing to the viewer and takes you out of the story so much.
Love this! Thanks for these insights on character. I’ve struggled with this clashing of character and plot on previous projects and this really help clear things up in an obvious way.
I recall watching North by Northwest for the first time and thinking to myself as I watched the crop duster scene, WHAT THE HECK? Now I know what happened. Thanks!
You’re so right sir… I would just suggest a few different words. How about “Story”, comes from the character. I mean, put few three dimensional characters in a similar situation… for instance, what if we had two more passenger on board in Titanic. Captain Jack Sparrow and Forest Gump? I guess an entire different story will emerge from these character. Plotting or the amazing Art of plotting is creating exciting and challenging settings and situations for characters. The story will come out from characters (provide we know our characters). Hope you agree with me, or please illuminate me, if I am wrong. Thanks
I learned that "cool stuff" is just really great when it moves the story and it's part of the characters moving it, a movie that only has plot is a forgetable one.
I dont think this is necessarily true. It sounds true, but not necessarily so. Someone who really cares for characters may really care that what the characters are experiencing makes sense. I care, but if someone is spiraling into chaos but it doesn't make sense I'm not going to say, "It's alright I'm confused. As long as 'they do them then I'll do me'." I can get that nonsense from the average user at Instagram. I care to know their experience is a sensible story for them. Edit for typos
This is exactly how I write. It's amazing to see this video. If you write stories where the characters dictate the plot it provides fresher dialogue because the characters 'write themselves'. I do create the overarching situation they're in, but how they react isn't pre-ordained by me - it's determined by their history as they've been written. It also makes the stories more fun to write.
This is so cool. This makes sense..I thought I was “dumb” because I have been watching so many writers say the complete opposite. Now, I have someone who tells me character driven stories are good and okay to do.
Character serves plot 100% of the time. Once you have compelling characters, they and only they, will write the story for you, if you can get out of your own way.
Definitely agree, a character CAN do something out of character but there needs to be justification. Same goes for the classic hero's journey structure, the beats need a reason to be happening to this specific pre-defined character before it happens. Sometimes it helps to make the beats, then write backwards to figure out the path from the previous to next, and then iron it out to flow well. Thx for the vid!
Finally! I resonate with what he said. "Do you think about creating characters who serve or motivate the plot?" Everything I write is character-driven and the protagonist is responsible for the major events (with good or bad actions, mainly bad actions or big failures because I'm focusing on Neo Noir lately).
@The New Paulo Coelho I'm a visual storyteller (comic book artist-for-hire working for publishers, but I'm licensing my IP for a PC game and a comic book now). I've been working on my graphic novel since 2016 (Got myself a publisher for this comic book, so I'm drawing the last chapter and editing the first issues). My GN has Neo Noir and thriller genre elements. That's why :) Are you working for the U.S. entertainment industry as well? I'm curious about you and your nickname. Paulo Coelho is my fellow countryman :)
There's some good information in here but I don't know that I buy all of it. I think asking if plot or characters is more important is a dumb question, not because the question itself is stupid but because it misses the point. Both Plot and Characters are incredibly important and together they tell a comprehensive story, to neglect one over the other doesn't serve that story. It's the writers responsibility to develop both of them to the best of their ability. While it's definitely true that strong characters who can drive and motivate the plot are better than characters who are just there to make a well developed plot functional; it is also equally true that a compelling plot that supports those strong characters is better than a forgettable one that just happens while you focus on the strength of your characters. It is important as a writer to put forth your best work when you craft a story, which means focusing on all of the stories elements not just one of them. To find a writer that would say that their "philosophy" favored one of those elements over the other would signal to me that those writers have elements in their stories that could be developed better.
I don't think it's this one-or-the-other thing with character and plot. You need both. A character-driven story in which nothing genuinely heightened ever happens is gonna suck. A plot-driven story with wooden characters is gonna suck. A story with a killer plot and believable, human characters can be great, even if the characters aren't the most groundbreaking: for instance, the new Netflix show "Alice in Borderland". A story with fantastic, original characters and a sturdy but less-than-showstopping plot can also be great: i.e., indie movies like Leave No Trace. The best stories fire on both cylinders. Breaking Bad, Moonlight, the Bourne trilogy. Characters that are fascinating, original, and believable, and a plot that fully delivers with gripping, heightened situations and life-altering stakes. Corey Mandell, another great screenwriter I found through these interviews, calls this Creative Integration. I'm taking his class now-it's phenomenal! Highly recommend it.
I've noticed that when I decide everything that is going to happen in advance during the outline, in some cases once I reach a scene the plot points no longer matchup with how the character has been acting previously. For instance, I had a character who was going to go into a building, but when he was outside he was afraid and no longer wanted to so he went home instead. After talking to his father and regrouping he was able to become determined enough to go back, but while he still goes inside the building I think him needing to go home first adds to the story and his character. Overall, I think Jack Perez is spot-on that characters who motivate the plot and move the story forward are the most interesting. Sometimes, I think that means making adjustments to the plot based on what has happened with the characters previously, since if they directly drive the story forward to me that makes them feel so much more alive and real.
That does feel more real. That hesitation and refusal. Actually that refusal is part of Joseph Campbell's monomyth analysis of story structure so you're still spot on with the framework even if it was unconscious
Heroes are courageous. Unless the character has a deep wound holding them back and making them scared (for a moment), the hero needing to go back to daddy for reassurance, unless at the beginning of the story to set up fear (a bad trait for a hero) is tantamount to a non hero. I once wrote a story about a fearful guy. Looking back, it was a rookie mistake, because I had him so afraid of acting just in order to demomstrate one huge act of courage later, making him passive up to that point. Lesson learned though. Heroes dont shy away in the face of fear or danger, they act. |They hesitate at times, but they dont need pep talks unless they recently have been defeated around midpoint or toward the end of act 2 before the final push to the climax in act 3
@@esjel9804 He doesn't go to see his dad, he goes to his apartment and his dad is unexpectedly there. Also he does have a deep wound, but I won't say what the wound is since it isn't relevant to the point I was making. I disagree that heroes never shy away in the face of danger, and I see courage coming from feeling fear and then going and doing what you need to do anyway. In my opinion, if a hero always wants to act immediately without feeling afraid that makes for a boring character since there's no internal conflict and they become too one dimensional.
@@esjel9804 I do agree that protagonists need to act on a consistent basis in order to avoid being passive, but sometimes fleeing a threat can itself be an action. A great example of this is when the Fellowship are fleeing the Balrog in Moria, the heroes are courageous no question but still know they need to flee in order to survive. What makes that scene so powerful to me, is that Gandalf stands up against the Balrog to save the others even though he believes it will lead to his own doom. However, I think that if he had stood up against the Balrog without first running away that scene would not have been nearly as iconic. As 0vrStart said above, it all comes down to whether you want your character to have an arc or not, and since character arcs are one of my favorite parts of stories I prefer having strong arcs.
I'm starting to write my movie, I like to create scenearios in my mind with all kind of situations, ordinary and extraordinary ones and I imagine how my three or four main characters would react or what they would do.
When this dude starts talking about making a character and then knowing how they would react to certain situations because of how well you've come to known your character. I was like this is some SUPER S TIER advice 👌 I like character driven stories more because their much more enjoyable rather then oh ima do this because plot
That’s my problem with the BvS movie. It was “okay, we have to get these characters together. Let’s have a lot of explosions!” And it never stopped to ask if the heroes they were remaking (who have a LONG history of characterizations) would actually do that
You cannot have one without the other. Every film or show or book HAS a perfect balance of plot and character, but it's up to the writers to find/identify that balance.
The thing is though, Hitchcock was right because it WAS awesome, he knew it, and now we know it because those scenes became iconic the instant they were comitted to celuloid. Every writer dreams of creating sequences that memorable. Unfortunately, we're not all Hitchcock lol.
Look at history I find that one of the reasons why people find history so boring is because of the fact that they bog down the students with stories that are not interesting. Whereas I find the actual history very intriguing because of the people who push through and create history by virtue of their character and who and what they are. The good the bad and the ugly in every sense. As my High School History teacher quoted the boring teacher teaches boring history. The pro-active show aspects of people through history that are the stuff of blockbuster Hollywood movies of aforementioned past that still influences us today.
Was he referring to Jurassic park 3 or land of the lost? Those are the only films I can recall that have a man afraid of heights, a pterodactyl, and a tight rope.
I applaud his ethics on writing discipline. To be fair, that scene made North By Northwest iconic. Thus, there's a time and a place to indulge yourself.
Thanks for this interview. I create characters that are multi-faceted and then put them in scenes that slowly reveal how they adapt to the situations in which they become involved. Like pealing the layers of an onion to reveal the core of the character. I like to use psychology and suspense rather than explosions, gun fights or special effects.
I really dislike this "two camps" idea of Plot vs. Character. Because Plot + Character = Story. One without the other is pointless. And one being more developed than the other is a story that could be improved. I get that you have to start with one when you first sit down to write. Either the plot comes first in your mind, or the characters do. But by the end of your many, many rewrites, whatever is lacking should have been boosted to the point where neither are noticeably stronger than the other. Like that dinosaur tightrope example, your script should be rewritten to the point that there are multiple set ups throughout the story, so that when the payoff happens, it makes perfect sense, character and plot wise.
The two camps exist because most movies either focus on the plot or the character because focusing on both can result in a terrible story. For example while people may be happy to see ordinary teens dealing with a love triangle during high school (character based) or Earth's military fighting against an alien invasion (plot based) no one wants to see ordinary teens dealing with a love triangle during an alien invasion.
I don't think it's a matter of one versus the other. I think it's more of a case of the plot being driven by the character's choices, and those choices come about from knowing your characters well, rather than sitting down and saying, 'we need to hit this beat, this beat, and this one' and making the characters fit in to that one-dimensional range.
@@adz951 "I think it's more of a case of the plot being driven by the character's choices" That only works in a character focused show where the characters can have an impact on the plot. So it will work in a story about a high school boy going on a journey (such as Into the Wild) but won't work during a war drama (such as Sands of Iwo Jima) where most of the choices will be outside of the main characters' control. Also there's a third camp: message, where the focus is on the message more than the characters or plot. An example would be Animal Farm or the Lorax.
@@uanime1 I wish I could respond to those examples - I've read Animal Farm but have not seen any of the movies you've mentioned. Can you suggest any more recent films that might fall under those banners? In terms of Animal Farm (and my memory of the book) I'd say it's still character driven - characters making choices that drive the plot.
@@adz951 "Can you suggest any more recent films that might fall under those banners?" Regarding plot driven movies I recommend any war movie as the character will be told where to go and who to fight, and all the character can do is fight, desert, or die. The important thing is that the character's motivation is determined by someone else, thus they have limited agency. For example in the Sands of Iwo Jima the American soldiers are fighting the Japanese soldiers because these countries are at war and if they weren't at war none of these soldiers would have any reason to fight. Outside of war movies I recommend movies where the character has to react to the situation but there isn't a character with the ability to resolve the situation by themselves. Examples would be Shin Godzilla (the choice is do the one thing that can stop Gozilla or get nuked by the USA), The Hobbit (Bilbo can help but cannot win a war by himself). Most superhero and action movies wouldn't count since the heroes have all the power they need to stop the villain by themselves. Regarding James Bond while he is ordered by the government to stop the villains (limited agency) he almost always has all the skills/gadgets he needs to defeat the villains by himself so I'd say he doesn't count. Plot driven movies are becoming rare since Hollywood wants heroes who have complete agency and can solve all the problems by themselves. Regarding message driven movies I recommend any movie nominated for best documentary at the Oscars. Movies outside of this are pretty rare so I can only list some of the most famous ones such as Supersize Me (fast food is bad for your health), Lorax (environmentalism), Day after tomorrow (climate change), Animal Farm (dictatorships can quickly form), Grave of the Fireflies (war can destroy lives). "In terms of Animal Farm (and my memory of the book) I'd say it's still character driven - characters making choices that drive the plot." For the majority of the book Napoleon is the only character whose choices matter, with everyone else having to react to those choices. When the choices the POV characters face is obey, flee, or die the POV characters aren't driving the plot any more.
very often I write down lines as I'm going, or as I'm envisioning it, and they rarely make it in. but they help crystallize the concept and motivate you to get it done
So here's an interesting thing. I've been learning about psychology and human behavior since I was 13, and having characters that behave realistically has merit. I got into writing with the intention of being true to what I had learned about people, but then I saw something on The West Wing. There was a scene in the first episode where a woman was mad at a guy, and as he's trying to explain his motives, she goes up to him and slaps him in the face. Normally when people get slapped, they get really mad. He didn't get really mad, he just kinda threw his arms up as if to say "What gives?" Then she explained her position, which developed the scene. So that's when it really clicked for me that characters are different from people. You can choose to have them behave realistically, or you can choose to have them behave unrealistically. I think you can definitely do both in the same story, having characters behave realistically adds believability and uncertainty to the story, where the story may require a certain type of response, but they behave in a way that upends that path, but then there are times where you can be a puppet master and have the characters behave in a way that serves the story, perhaps you set up a situation, and having them evoke a certain, but unrealistic, response can have an emotional payoff that being too realistic may subvert. I think it's advantageous to decide on a case-by-case basis.
I think it's best to stick with one style for each project. If you want a more plot driven story with unrealistic characters that's fine but make sure they remain that way. If you want a character driven story where the plot develops based on realistic character motivations then keep it that way until the end of the project.
Very very true..., once write has figured out exact personality of main character....,that character itself helps writer to carry forward story in authentic manner....& Close to reality too
This was a really refreshing video! I strongly agree with Mr. Perez that the characters matter more than the plot. Of course, I would say that there is no plot without characters, so the two do not exist separately the way I see it. But there certainly are some filmmakers who believe in "cool shit" as Mr. Perez expresses it, and I think he is justified in using that expression. For me, at least, I would never be motivated to tell a story if I didn't care about the characters. And I often find the temptation to write in cool elements easy to resist if I judge these elements to contradict the greater purposes of the story.
I think is based on what the writer focused on, character or plot, because you can make characters first or plot first. Both character and plot can give a sepsific message that writer want to said.
I prefer stories that don't need twists are the best. Also, twists usually feel cheap or like a simple way to flip things to make the story different. Take the movie Hancock for example, I really liked where it was going and what it was about until the Charlize Theron superhero switch too. It would have been more fulfilling and dynamic if it wasn't a thing about destiny weakening him by being with her, but that he's weakened when he gets his heart broken (That sounds like a great story waiting to happen.) I feel like the Hancock character was going in a strong direction too with that story he told about Frankenstein. I would have preferred not knowing where he came from and what his backstory was. It's funny but it made the movie feel less real when it was revealed who they were and that there were two superhuman type characters. Also, it's funny how precise I'm being about a movie that came out years ago haha. And man did I hate the switch in "Glass." That movie could have ended so much better.
I'm pretty sure this is also Tarantino's style of approaching a script and tbh it's one of the best advice you're ever going to get about storytelling. 🙌
Character is most important to me as a witness to a characters story. I hate it when a "Twist" de-values the entire first portion of the characters journey, The Sixth Sense was a very successful twist because it didnt make the first portion of the film redundant.
If you come up with some cool thing, and you want that to be one of the center pieces of your story, think to yourself what kind of character would actually do this? That way you can get your "thing" done believably. You will have "less freedom" in writing your character that way, but you can still do a strong and flushed out character. If you come up with a cool character, and you want him to be the center of your story. Well, then you have a little less freedom with the direction of your plot. I think you can do it both ways. I have no clue what kind of character would chase someone with a crop duster, but I'm sure one could be thought up in a satisfying manner.
I feel this is very insightful and I would at the moment, agree with what Jack says, but a quick google search to the films he has worked on gives me very mixed feelings on taking his advice.
this guy said it, i always hear people saying, "oh, a good movie is a movie that has a great ending, a twist, and ending that blows me away" and it is cool to watch movies like that but i don't think that's the only way to tell a good story
Was thinking of kat dennings in Thor. I always remember her character because she was so likeable and funny and there for pretty much no reason. But I always remember her.
In my own writing, I often end up giving the reins to the characters and have to update the outline afterwards. Sometimes, I manage to force my characters back into the plot, but it's like herding cats.
In my own story the climax in Act 2 of this 3 act story the protagonist and antagonist were supposed to face off and have a fight that was just gonna be brutal and bloody. It was so badass and I wanted that for the ending of Act 2 so much. But as I wrote out the story it became abundantly clear that with the revelations and actual character of these two the fight could never make sense. This antagonist would never wanna harm this protagonist . And so when the protagonist arrives for his showdown the antagonist can only apologize and cry knowing all he's done already And the protagonist beats him to death. The antagonist doesn't even try to block or anything. It's a bloody and terrible scene to see unfold. But it's what these characters would do given everything that had occurred and been revealed.
“Outlander” the only thread that make Jamie and Clair consistent are that they are played by the same actors. Other than that, it’s just contrivances to keep the thing keep spinning those plates.
I guess if we follow Dan Harmons wheel of focusing on what a character fundamentally wants and the underlying need behind it, along with competing interests. Maybe itll help fix those issues. Generally a lot of tales are an obstacle course and personal evolution in pursuing a desire.
I didn’t know there was a phrase to describe these 2 types of characters, but now I do. And now I understand why certain characters don’t appeal to me. As someone working to hone their skill in writing action stories, I really don’t like it when characters are just there to make a cool action scene happen. It’s tacky. So, do I think of characters who serve or who motivate the plot? I’m going to go with those who motivate the plot. Those who have to choose how to react to new scenes based on the actions they made before that brought about this new scene. Meaning that, if they’d chosen to do something different in the previous scene, this new one wouldn’t exist or would be completely different. Like life. That’s how I justify new scenes in my action stories. If the characters making a different choice in the previous scene wouldn’t change the new scene, I have to ask myself if that new scene really serves the story or if it’s just something cool that I wanted to include because it’s cool. Having said that, sometimes I do include scenes because I think they’re cool. Just not every scene.
Film gives us a lens into the human spirit like nothing else can." Kimberly Steward. "You should not dream your film. You should make it." Mr. Steven Spielberg. Of all the music that reached farthest into heaven, it is the beating of a loving heart. Henry Ward Beecher. "The only limit is the one you set yourself." - Felix Baumgartner Manhattan New York City. February 2019. Twenty seven year old, Josephine Warren, an courageous and fearless arts educator, disability legal justice activist, and a future film director and film producer, reflects on her wonderful childhood growing up in Manhattan New York City and coping with mild High Functioning Aspergers Autism Syndrome and coping with her getting bullied, (through her love of theater and film screenwriting). Josephine, 27, the eldest of four children; Sandra Warren, 25, Michaela Warren, 25, and Josephine’s only and youngest brother Reed Warren, lived in Manhattan New York City her whole life. In late February 2019, Josephine Warren, expressed to her siblings and her parents, just how much she wanted to attend film directing graduate school at the University of Southern California Los Angeles, instead of serving in the US Navy Seals as a military aviation technician. Toward the middle of her life, her bullies and her parents Trisha Warren and Alex Warren; former Navy Seal graduates keep on, hiding her film school applications in their office drawers, as, they fear that Josephine, their daughter, would fail to follow in her parents footsteps of becoming a Navy Seal West Point Academy soldier; as that is what the Warren family legacy is defined as, according to Josephine Warren. Even though Josephine lived with Aspergers her entire life, Josephine would use her adversity and failures, as foundation blocks, toward her evolving into one of the most inspiring film directors in New York City and global history; At the end of her film, Josephine Warren, receives the most inspiring reward of her life, and she ends up inspiring, tens of billions of lives, through her artistic voice and loving and gratitude giving heart and human existence alone. At the film’s end, Vincent Everett, an doctoral graduate student of the University of Phoenix and a Five Star US Navy Seals Admiral at Phoenix’s “SEALS RECRUIT ACADEMY” in Arizona, falls romantically in love with Josephine, in Baka Jerusalem Israel after reading her film script for Superheroic and shows his soldiers unit, that the human race can inspire, even in adversity and obstacles. Superheroic, A Mr. Jonathan Trauner Directed Film. (I have shared my Superheroic film script to the Scarlet Lens Film Production Company of Toronto Canada and to Mrs. Leah Rifkin; Renowned Film Director and Author of Beyond The Directors Chair; She said that my story has the power to inspire the Oscar Academy of Beverly Hills California. Even though I have Aspergers, I have completed my Superheroic film story, I am an Israeli American immigrant Jerusalem Jewish Israeli citizen, and I work for Mobileye Intel in Jerusalem for their Computer Algorithms Correction Department. I also shared my Superheroic film story with Nancy Spielberg and she was so inspired by my story, characters, and Superheroic film script message; My dream is to win an Oscar Academy Award in Los Angeles California in real life. My mission as a film director and storyteller is to inspire the world through storytelling, love, gratitude, and heart. Main Theme for my Future Oscar Academy Award Winning Film Superheroic; Never Give Up. (The Score, Unstoppable). The Score's Unstoppable identifies with my primary Superheroic film theme which is never give up. ruclips.net/video/Xydf351l-gw/видео.html
I really like a story where a character changes or makes a big decision near the end. Casablanca is like that. I agree with him that surprise endings seem kinda cheap.
I mostly agree. However, a movie with no plot or a bad plot can not be saved by an interesting character. A film with flat characters can work with a gripping plot, as long as you care enough about the characters. But, generally speaking, he is mostly correct. And he is most certainly correct that the protagonist has to be the one making the decisions and taking the actions which drive the plot. This is key.
This is a problem the current Star Wars movies are suffering from. I'm dumbfounded that these things get greenlit. Without good writing, it's all forgettable garbage. Simple analogy is that the character(s) are the mouse (mice) and the plot is the maze they have to be put through to get the cheese. Without mice we can root for, who cares? Disney, is Mickey just any old rat? Or is he a specific character? You can make money, or you can make art that will stand the test of time and become a classic. And you can do both, it just takes talent and some care. But it should always be the goal.
Plot is work. Character is necessary to carry the plot. In short, I write in terms of personality rather than characterization. It helps me understand the goal better with the word personality. Your show should have personality as well as your characters. All characters need a sense of humor, even if its just for a moment, dark, eerie, sinister, it doesn't matter. But using tone to carry your story is important and you accomplish this with a personality to your story. That's what makes it feel unique and is unique. In order to accomplish this, you need a personality yourself. Ah ha, that's the problem!
Characters are easier to write than plots apparently, because plot holes are typically accepted as collateral damage. This in spite of the increasingly well-documented cases of audience PTSD.
Breaking Bad was totally written character first and then they wondered what the character would do or say in this situation. They didn't predetermine what themes would be explored either, but said they came naturally after the fact as they put two different characters together. I don't think the plot and all the why's and how's are even remembered, yet everyone seems to remember who the characters are.
It sounds like Jack Perez dislikes poorly written characters and the easiest way for him to write is to create the character first then once he’s fully realized said character he lets some part of his mind that this character speaks through guide him to the end. Personally, I think you have do things either way. I think a good story requires both great characters and strong plot. The exact direction you start from is writer preference but both elements need to be there and they need to be strong.
From the point of view of a Game Master, I basically exist to tell EVERYONE ELSE'S story(ies) at the table... The Players create the PC's, the heroes (or villains if that's their thing) who actually TAKE agency in the world-setting and mold it to their vision(s) of the future "how things should be"... BUT... I still have to create the litany of "everyone else" in the world. For a table of six Players (and thus usually 6 "PC's") the other billions of people, humans, apes that talk, dwarves, dragons, gnomes, elves, orcs, drow, monstrosities, droids, or what have you are all on MY shoulders... A majority are there as "fodder" just to dress up the towns and villages (or cities and metro-plexes) with life. A fair fraction also have to serve plots and story hooks... They drag along the usual schtick, doing a job for a boss or pulling the "company line" as it were from behind the scenes... Then there are the few "Plotters" who reappear in various capacity to either help the PC's along in their efforts, or hinder them with BS and occasionally outright assaults... Finally, there are "villains" to the PC's "heroes" (give or take role reversal) to think about, and once in a while I get to throw in a "true heavy" or even a "nemesis"... These are the highest of achievements for a PC or Party to butt heads against. SO it's reasonable to concede that in RPG's, the Characters ABSOLUTELY drive the plot(s) forward. Particularly true of willful Players with intent, but even with Players who like to railroad a campaign through modules and follow their storyline to fruition, the PC's (Player Characters) can be interesting if constructed thoughtfully and then played and fleshed out "in-game" well. It's possible to RP in such a way that you (individual Player) are very WELL aware of a "rail-roady" or limited choice style of campaign, but that your Character (drawn up in so many statistics and numerical skill or ability levels) is completely unaware that he/she is acting as the story requires, not by a particular agency of their own... In writing, whether novel or cinematic, there are stories that do present "a pile of cool shit"... AND it's painfully obvious when you read/watch them. Done well, or as well as possible, the cool stuff is fun enough to watch that you don't really consider (too much) the sensibility involved (or the lack of it)... "Desperado" is a good example. It keeps relatively close to character design and arc, while still being entirely composed of "cool shit to watch"... more than a quality dramatic piece or even a great comedy work... There's nothing wrong with it. At the same time, there's nothing wrong with starting the outline with a short-list (I'd probably limit to three scenes, myself) of things that are "so cool they have to be included"... BUT the trick here is to be thorough in the detective work as you basically "write backwards"... I've done it, AND can honesty assure you it's a top-notch pain in the ass! In my experience, you start with the scene (from that short-list) and ask, "How did we get here..." and write up the list of possibilities. Then you pick the best explanations for that, and move to that explanation to ask the same again... as you go, you should start writing up the Character(s) involved... similar to a Character Sheet in a TTRPG, and any of a thousand sites on the internet or probably a million available second-hand RPG guides and books can give great examples and suggestions about building Characters... If you just keep repeating this process, you can create the back-story for just about any one scene... stitching together from one scene to another is a little more difficult ("touch and go"?)... but with a bit of luck and careful guidance, you should be able to accomplish it. NOW... in my experience (um... dubious at the best of times) the first draft is going to be a piece of crap, AND it's probably going to read like a hopeless collection of flashbacks or dream sequences... That's where you "clean it up" and start "straightening out the kinks"... It's a big continuity issue, making sure all the quirks of Character are included in EVERY scene from set-up to climax, and that you can give just enough wiggle room for development as you fill in any plotholes and/or eliminate obvious drek. I've found the second draft to be the best point in process to really "deep dive" into the "story bible" a list of rules and laws by which the storyline MUST function in order to be "real" in this particular world-setting... SO what IS my experience??? In retro- (or "reverse") writing? In-game, I've had to conjure up explanations in lore for particular festivals, or excuses for superstitions... both for Non-Player Characters involved in a given campaign as well as Player Characters who's Players were just "dry" for a background reason, but had this hilarious quirk they just can't possibly leave out... (ugh)... Sometimes, I have to create the reasons for over-engineered "villainous plots" to satisfy the Players as they investigate whatever is going on and then make efforts to stop the villains from "winning" at any cost. It's not always the easiest thing to do, explaining WHY a villain who's been thoughtful enough to infiltrate an Imperial Fortification to steal a core component of some super-weapon, only to leave it laying around in a crate somewhere in a cave in the jungle... as opposed to building a new super-weapon with it to destroy the Imperial Forces, or worse... SO writing "bass ackwards" isn't exactly natural, but it can actually be done well, and Players with much intelligence, WILL call you out for shoddy craft... especially if (like me) you're the kind of facetious ass who calls them out for shoddy acting or poor Character Development efforts... We work together in the collab' of Gaming, so we (often abrasively) have each other's backs. (lolz) On the "Plot-focused" school of thought... Actually, there are inherently (maybe) six total plots... 1. Murder/revenge 2. Kidnap/hostage 3. Infiltrate/theft 4. Delivery/messenger 5. Romance/Seduction 6. Politics/Campaign Pretty much every "other" kind of adventure is some twist or combination of those six... Trust me, I've been GM'ing as much as Playing for 30+ years... and there really isn't anything else. Derive the story to it's basic skeletal form, and this is what you'll get... SO the remarkably original works aren't so much original stories as they are uniquely interpretted with unusually relatable and powerfully layered and fleshed characters (among litanies of other details) to package the whole thing. Great stories "feel" like they're original because of those details, whether high fantasy settings and clever semantics are used to obfuscate the same old kidnapping/rescue plot, OR stranger characters acting bizarrely in futuristic settings excuse just another "heist" being planned and executed with twists into seduction and politics to obscure it... It only "feels" unique while you're busy suspending belief to invest in the interesting parade of characters that drive the thing forward OR do everything to slow or reverse the plot as it shambles and staggers and clatters down the otherwise very uninteresting and predictable course of every other Kidnapping/rescue OR Infiltration/Theft course ever dreamed. ;o)
@@convolution223, not a terrible suggestion... Except that under the "protection" you derive by asking "what are you protecting against?"... Either 1. Murder/attack OR 2 kidnap OR 3 Theft... All of which were mentioned, and it's not a hard leap of logic to suggest that anyone with something to lose WILL be protecting it "the best they can"... As for exploration, it's an element of world-building involved in practically every story ever told. BUT... getting back to the point (of my original)... It's not about creating or telling an original story. Those just don't really exist... The nuances of sci-fi and fantasy or futuristic dystopias only provide an interesting new PERSPECTIVE for telling the same old plots and twists. If you can handle that basic understanding of writing and creative process, no matter your choice venue for stories or character presentations, you can and likely will find success. If you can NOT handle that basic principle, then you'll only find success in a very short term, up to the point that the evidence will become so vast and so obvious that you can no longer deny it... AND the inevitable collapse will suck the fun and purpose of bothering right out of you. I had a "dry" spell some... oh about 12 or 13 years back. I used to think there were all kinds of ways to make original stories... original characters... and I was rather "too impressed" with myself and my table(s). THEN... someone a little more thoughtful about their reading repertoire came to play. I've been fairly well read, the classics as well as a relatively impressive list of contemporary works... and not even to mention everything I could get my mitts on regarding history... field guides... and instructionals (like DIY cabinetmaking, or Tools and their uses from the Dept of Navy)... SO I wasn't easily intimidated by someone "being well read" or "well versed in so-and-so"... BUT... This gal could pick a book off the top of her head and list at least two characters that everyone's PC reminded her of. She could sit through a handful of sessions (usually 5 or 6) and start predicting EXACTLY where the "big-bad" was and what was being plotted behind the scenes... Now, she didn't make a big habit of ruining the story every time she could... She only spoke up about it occasionally, and it came in the form of a question... BUT it was no less infuriating at the time. "You're seriously not about to..." She would preamble into the EXACT friggin' plan I was building toward... ...AND what the hell do you say to that? "Um... well... Yeah, that's what I WAS going to do... till you opened your mouth and ruined the fucking thing... OKAY... Break time so I can screw together another plot... smoke 'em if you got 'em!" AND for a short time, I dumped GM'ing on her lap. I wasn't "good enough" to keep the game interesting, at least in her obvious opinion, so I drew Character Sheets... AND found myself (like the rest of the table) getting suggestions around the different stories and authors who had "dubiously similar" characters in their work... Then I dropped out of the game for about three months... I had to reckon with the lack of plots actually available. It didn't take too long, and I wasn't an ass about it, excusing myself politely for "other projects that so severely needed my effort"... There are a couple different lists out there, from a couple different "schools of philosophy" on the matter, but in my own reckoning, I refined it down to those six (6)... beyond which I find repetitive to one degree or other. Now, I'm not ranting here. I can understand your suggestion, and appreciate the thought going into it. I'm only trying to clarify from where I left off, so you can maybe have an easier time "simplifying" and "deriving" the same lessons that I pissed away a couple months getting through (and over with emotionally) myself. Don't sweat it... The whole world and all of humanity is a rather... unimaginative bunch if we really bothered scrutinizing it. SO we will probably prefer not to scrutinize. We (writers) will enjoy creating our interesting twists and sharing stories with others... AND we (readers/audience) will enjoy NOT studying too dubiously hard over those stories to sweat out all the flat-out unoriginal tripe that gets occasionally peppered into every story told just to keep some of the world-craft anchored to words and terms we can understand. Sorry this thing got quite so friggin' long again... (lolz) Suspense of disbelief is called that for "reasons". Right? ;o)
Interesting read there man, the part about coming up with a few must-have secenes and piecing them together backwards is absolutely my method. What you get is multiple dream sequences that loosely connect to one anothe, so it is a bit difficult to stitch but when it clicks it really f'n clicks. You should be the one interviewed by Film Courage, haha.
yeah i prefer a plot where am not able to tell whats going to happen next to a predictable one with great characters. its just more engaging and exciting if you cant tell whats going to happen next in a movie. The best ones merge the two like game of thrones. Social network was absolutely fucking brilliant because it realised since we already knew the ending being that its public knowledge and it used that ending as sorta the beginning striking element in the story and introduced characters we didnt really know of like sean parker to spice up the story and keep us interested. i mean thats my favourite screenplay of all time and i keep learning something from it everytime.
The Hateful Eight was based on Characters and Tarantino didn't knew how to end it. the original idea was about Django being stuck with 7 psychos but he said nah let's remove Django and replace him with a new character that can do things Django can't.
”Twists” are only successful when the writer has the skill to provide the audience with all the information, clues and foreshadowing they need to see the twist coming yet still manage to surprise them when it unfolds.
Internal logical consistency is key, anything else is hacky Deus ex machina and disrespectful to the audience.
The mark of true success is to have the audience derive pleasure long after viewing the movie or reading the novel by discussing and debating this ”twist”.
It’s like the satisfaction one derives in solving a puzzle. We should respect our audience enough to strive to always put this much effort into our writing.
What popped out of this episode was the idea of coming up with a character first, and then writing a story that challenges that character's fears and needs. It's more than a character-driven story, it's a character-created story. Film Courage always gives me new ideas and techniques to consider when writing a story.
Here's a process that always helps me:
1) Figure out my genre
2) Come up with a theme that the genre works with well
3) Create a character that embodies the theme
4) Finally, construct a plot that facilitates the character embodying the theme
Genre conjures Theme
Theme creates Character
Character guides Plot
Plot reveals Character
Character embodies Theme
Theme fits Genre
I feel like a lot of new stories, instead of focusing on plot *or* characters, now prioritise themes, and characters now act in seemingly shallow, uninteresting, or illogical ways in order to project the theme. Themes, I find, are completely pointless if you don't care about the characters exploring them, and sadly, I've noticed a lot of character depth and design has been sacrificed in order to place the theme front and centre. 'What is the show/movie trying to say as a statement?' seems to be the priority more so now than 'How much do you empathise with the character?' or even 'What events took place?' - It's a simile to post-modernism, where it's not at all about the art itself, but what the art is trying to say. The new Star Wars is a great example of this to me, where I feel the characters don't have a lot of interesting traits. They seem to react how the story/themes needs them to react, rather than simply reacting based on their own character and what they've experienced, which leaves me thinking they are either shallow, or worse, not believable.
I read the first third of this post and my immediate thought was The Last Jedi. A movie that seems to have decided its themes and plot elements first, and contrived and contorted everything else to fit those molds... and it just doesn't work.
Thank you for this thought! Really expanded my mind.
Funny this video is recommended to me and I see this post after Last of Us Part 2 comes out.
@@Ryuksgelus was thinking about this video when reading about TLOU2. What a mess.
Great point, i totally agree
Gary oldman + johnny knoxville
Josh Duhamel Sr lol
actually 30% Gary Oldman, 30 % Johnny Knoxville, 40% Michael Shannon
gary oldville?
With sprinkles of Sam Lake
Pinch of 1980s David Byrne too.
I came up with my long list of characters a while back, and one day I decided I wanted to start writing. The plot came to me pretty easily, because with a wide range of defined characters, I could just have them do what they would normally do in the situation. It's nice to have someone point out that my writing method is valid.
I love this guy. "You have this pile up of cool shit" lmao he looks like gary oldman too
Oldman's younger American brother
I really do believe that letting your characters, that you've created, create the story is profoundly more impactful than making a plot and forcing your characters to be molded in a way that fits that plot.
My favorite writing moments are when the characters take over. It's like I'm just taking dictation as the characters reveal themselves to me.
That's best part of a first draft.
It's why I love writing so much
👍
I always have ideas for cool beats and scenes. Sometimes those ideas survive meeting my characters.
What a great way to put it.
I'm so glad I'm not alone on this. I prefer character driven stories. In fact my books are character driven.
Character driven stories are almost always superior. Unless maybe your writing a biography.
@@oldmanjinkinsskyrim737 character driven stories are characters that have character growth and major change in their personalities the most common tend to be the redemption arc, plot driven characters are characters used to drive the plot things just happen sometimes they tend to be plot device an example of this is joker from dc comics the writers use and write him as a plot device in MOST of the stories and feels less like a character another example is johan liebert from monster he had major plot armour throughout the whole series.
Really great interview! Character informs plot and helps the writer avoid contrived situations. That was my main takeaway and he does a good job of making his case.
I think he’s also got the right idea about twists. The twist is definitely the most prized aspect of a good/memorable film, but perhaps not for the reasons he implies. I think audiences are entertained by the ‘the twist’ because it’s a glimpse at a new idea. Whenever we don’t see something coming, especially an ending, that signals to me that the writer was thinking outside the box. Something we’ve all been told is not possible because apparently there are no more original ideas. Go figure. So in essence ‘the twist’ is a glimmer of hope that reminds us creativity is still possible.
The best thing about your channel is that these videos are usually relevant to the scene, question or problem I am facing on that day. Thank you for answering these important questions.
Love to hear it. Great that RUclips is populating the right ones for you.
How does this character uniquely react to this "world" and what's put in front of him, is what I read. 🙏
I found that very interesting about having a well thought out character that will literally write his/her own story.
Everyone has what works for them. Personally, I like to start with a character and a basic idea of how the story starts and ends and then follow the character around to see where he/she leads me.
👍
That a simple plot method.
Just imagine how is starts and ends. Then figured out what happened in the middle.
It's so true...and I've seen it in film, when an outline of events is created first, and the character is forced to behave a certain way to fit the outline, you end up with characters that do things that are against their personality, against their nature. It's confusing to the viewer and takes you out of the story so much.
Love this! Thanks for these insights on character. I’ve struggled with this clashing of character and plot on previous projects and this really help clear things up in an obvious way.
Love jack Perez . Such a calm and wise teacher. I wish he was my mentor.
I recall watching North by Northwest for the first time and thinking to myself as I watched the crop duster scene, WHAT THE HECK? Now I know what happened. Thanks!
You’re so right sir… I would just suggest a few different words.
How about “Story”, comes from the character. I mean, put few three dimensional
characters in a similar situation… for instance, what if we had two more passenger
on board in Titanic. Captain Jack Sparrow and Forest Gump? I guess an entire different
story will emerge from these character.
Plotting or the amazing Art of plotting is creating exciting and challenging settings and situations for characters. The story will come out from characters (provide we know our characters).
Hope you agree with me, or please illuminate me, if I am wrong. Thanks
I learned that "cool stuff" is just really great when it moves the story and it's part of the characters moving it, a movie that only has plot is a forgetable one.
One things for sure. Jack Perez is a cool character name.
I think audiences who have lower empathy are more interested in plot, while those with higher empathy are more interested in the characters.
And that's why you have to care for both at the same time I think
Great observation!
@@alexispapageorgiou72 true
@@Omnicient. I dont see the link there
I dont think this is necessarily true. It sounds true, but not necessarily so. Someone who really cares for characters may really care that what the characters are experiencing makes sense. I care, but if someone is spiraling into chaos but it doesn't make sense I'm not going to say, "It's alright I'm confused. As long as 'they do them then I'll do me'." I can get that nonsense from the average user at Instagram. I care to know their experience is a sensible story for them.
Edit for typos
This is exactly how I write. It's amazing to see this video. If you write stories where the characters dictate the plot it provides fresher dialogue because the characters 'write themselves'. I do create the overarching situation they're in, but how they react isn't pre-ordained by me - it's determined by their history as they've been written. It also makes the stories more fun to write.
👍
This is so cool. This makes sense..I thought I was “dumb” because I have been watching so many writers say the complete opposite. Now, I have someone who tells me character driven stories are good and okay to do.
One of the best instructors ever. I always feel exciting and motivating every time I get his class.
Love Jack, one of our favorites.
Character serves plot 100% of the time. Once you have compelling characters, they and only they, will write the story for you, if you can get out of your own way.
Sometimes they should motivate and other times they should serve. It's a balance when struck right that can make any story an epic one.
Definitely agree, a character CAN do something out of character but there needs to be justification. Same goes for the classic hero's journey structure, the beats need a reason to be happening to this specific pre-defined character before it happens. Sometimes it helps to make the beats, then write backwards to figure out the path from the previous to next, and then iron it out to flow well. Thx for the vid!
Finally! I resonate with what he said. "Do you think about creating characters who serve or motivate the plot?" Everything I write is character-driven and the protagonist is responsible for the major events (with good or bad actions, mainly bad actions or big failures because I'm focusing on Neo Noir lately).
@The New Paulo Coelho Hm? Why am I focusing on Neo Noir?
@The New Paulo Coelho I'm a visual storyteller (comic book artist-for-hire working for publishers, but I'm licensing my IP for a PC game and a comic book now). I've been working on my graphic novel since 2016 (Got myself a publisher for this comic book, so I'm drawing the last chapter and editing the first issues). My GN has Neo Noir and thriller genre elements. That's why :)
Are you working for the U.S. entertainment industry as well? I'm curious about you and your nickname. Paulo Coelho is my fellow countryman :)
There's some good information in here but I don't know that I buy all of it. I think asking if plot or characters is more important is a dumb question, not because the question itself is stupid but because it misses the point. Both Plot and Characters are incredibly important and together they tell a comprehensive story, to neglect one over the other doesn't serve that story. It's the writers responsibility to develop both of them to the best of their ability. While it's definitely true that strong characters who can drive and motivate the plot are better than characters who are just there to make a well developed plot functional; it is also equally true that a compelling plot that supports those strong characters is better than a forgettable one that just happens while you focus on the strength of your characters. It is important as a writer to put forth your best work when you craft a story, which means focusing on all of the stories elements not just one of them. To find a writer that would say that their "philosophy" favored one of those elements over the other would signal to me that those writers have elements in their stories that could be developed better.
This man is on point! I also love this channel! Thank you, thank you!
Thank you for your support Kelly!
I don't think it's this one-or-the-other thing with character and plot. You need both.
A character-driven story in which nothing genuinely heightened ever happens is gonna suck. A plot-driven story with wooden characters is gonna suck. A story with a killer plot and believable, human characters can be great, even if the characters aren't the most groundbreaking: for instance, the new Netflix show "Alice in Borderland". A story with fantastic, original characters and a sturdy but less-than-showstopping plot can also be great: i.e., indie movies like Leave No Trace.
The best stories fire on both cylinders. Breaking Bad, Moonlight, the Bourne trilogy. Characters that are fascinating, original, and believable, and a plot that fully delivers with gripping, heightened situations and life-altering stakes.
Corey Mandell, another great screenwriter I found through these interviews, calls this Creative Integration. I'm taking his class now-it's phenomenal! Highly recommend it.
These were great points.
Thank you for this interview.
I've noticed that when I decide everything that is going to happen in advance during the outline, in some cases once I reach a scene the plot points no longer matchup with how the character has been acting previously.
For instance, I had a character who was going to go into a building, but when he was outside he was afraid and no longer wanted to so he went home instead. After talking to his father and regrouping he was able to become determined enough to go back, but while he still goes inside the building I think him needing to go home first adds to the story and his character.
Overall, I think Jack Perez is spot-on that characters who motivate the plot and move the story forward are the most interesting. Sometimes, I think that means making adjustments to the plot based on what has happened with the characters previously, since if they directly drive the story forward to me that makes them feel so much more alive and real.
That does feel more real. That hesitation and refusal. Actually that refusal is part of Joseph Campbell's monomyth analysis of story structure so you're still spot on with the framework even if it was unconscious
Heroes are courageous. Unless the character has a deep wound holding them back and making them scared (for a moment), the hero needing to go back to daddy for reassurance, unless at the beginning of the story to set up fear (a bad trait for a hero) is tantamount to a non hero.
I once wrote a story about a fearful guy. Looking back, it was a rookie mistake, because I had him so afraid of acting just in order to demomstrate one huge act of courage later, making him passive up to that point. Lesson learned though. Heroes dont shy away in the face of fear or danger, they act. |They hesitate at times, but they dont need pep talks unless they recently have been defeated around midpoint or toward the end of act 2 before the final push to the climax in act 3
@@esjel9804 Depends if you have a character arc or not.
@@esjel9804 He doesn't go to see his dad, he goes to his apartment and his dad is unexpectedly there. Also he does have a deep wound, but I won't say what the wound is since it isn't relevant to the point I was making.
I disagree that heroes never shy away in the face of danger, and I see courage coming from feeling fear and then going and doing what you need to do anyway. In my opinion, if a hero always wants to act immediately without feeling afraid that makes for a boring character since there's no internal conflict and they become too one dimensional.
@@esjel9804 I do agree that protagonists need to act on a consistent basis in order to avoid being passive, but sometimes fleeing a threat can itself be an action. A great example of this is when the Fellowship are fleeing the Balrog in Moria, the heroes are courageous no question but still know they need to flee in order to survive.
What makes that scene so powerful to me, is that Gandalf stands up against the Balrog to save the others even though he believes it will lead to his own doom. However, I think that if he had stood up against the Balrog without first running away that scene would not have been nearly as iconic. As 0vrStart said above, it all comes down to whether you want your character to have an arc or not, and since character arcs are one of my favorite parts of stories I prefer having strong arcs.
I'm starting to write my movie, I like to create scenearios in my mind with all kind of situations, ordinary and extraordinary ones and I imagine how my three or four main characters would react or what they would do.
Before writing a scene ask youself what you want it to accomplish. How you get there is what sets a good writer apart.
Good learning tips to writing a script.
When this dude starts talking about making a character and then knowing how they would react to certain situations because of how well you've come to known your character. I was like this is some SUPER S TIER advice 👌 I like character driven stories more because their much more enjoyable rather then oh ima do this because plot
That’s my problem with the BvS movie. It was “okay, we have to get these characters together. Let’s have a lot of explosions!” And it never stopped to ask if the heroes they were remaking (who have a LONG history of characterizations) would actually do that
Thank you! Was just talking about this very thing with my collaborator.
You cannot have one without the other. Every film or show or book HAS a perfect balance of plot and character, but it's up to the writers to find/identify that balance.
The thing is though, Hitchcock was right because it WAS awesome, he knew it, and now we know it because those scenes became iconic the instant they were comitted to celuloid. Every writer dreams of creating sequences that memorable. Unfortunately, we're not all Hitchcock lol.
His pitch was so good that I forgot he pissed on a god
Look at history I find that one of the reasons why people find history so boring is because of the fact that they bog down the students with stories that are not interesting. Whereas I find the actual history very intriguing because of the people who push through and create history by virtue of their character and who and what they are. The good the bad and the ugly in every sense. As my High School History teacher quoted the boring teacher teaches boring history. The pro-active show aspects of people through history that are the stuff of blockbuster Hollywood movies of aforementioned past that still influences us today.
So glad to hear a pro debunking the current obsession with subverting expectations at the expense of story.
Liked what he had to say, looked up his movies.... Mega Shark vs. Giant Octopus (2009) :/ Wild Things 2 (2004) ;/ "Some Guy Who Kills People" (2012)
Was he referring to Jurassic park 3 or land of the lost? Those are the only films I can recall that have a man afraid of heights, a pterodactyl, and a tight rope.
Probably Jurassic Park 3 because in Land of the Lost, the conflict lied in trying not to wake the eggs and not with trying to fight off a Pterodactyl.
I applaud his ethics on writing discipline. To be fair, that scene made North By Northwest iconic. Thus, there's a time and a place to indulge yourself.
Thanks for this interview. I create characters that are multi-faceted and then put them in scenes that slowly reveal how they adapt to the situations in which they become involved. Like pealing the layers of an onion to reveal the core of the character. I like to use psychology and suspense rather than explosions, gun fights or special effects.
I really dislike this "two camps" idea of Plot vs. Character. Because Plot + Character = Story. One without the other is pointless. And one being more developed than the other is a story that could be improved. I get that you have to start with one when you first sit down to write. Either the plot comes first in your mind, or the characters do. But by the end of your many, many rewrites, whatever is lacking should have been boosted to the point where neither are noticeably stronger than the other. Like that dinosaur tightrope example, your script should be rewritten to the point that there are multiple set ups throughout the story, so that when the payoff happens, it makes perfect sense, character and plot wise.
The two camps exist because most movies either focus on the plot or the character because focusing on both can result in a terrible story. For example while people may be happy to see ordinary teens dealing with a love triangle during high school (character based) or Earth's military fighting against an alien invasion (plot based) no one wants to see ordinary teens dealing with a love triangle during an alien invasion.
I don't think it's a matter of one versus the other. I think it's more of a case of the plot being driven by the character's choices, and those choices come about from knowing your characters well, rather than sitting down and saying, 'we need to hit this beat, this beat, and this one' and making the characters fit in to that one-dimensional range.
@@adz951
"I think it's more of a case of the plot being driven by the character's choices"
That only works in a character focused show where the characters can have an impact on the plot. So it will work in a story about a high school boy going on a journey (such as Into the Wild) but won't work during a war drama (such as Sands of Iwo Jima) where most of the choices will be outside of the main characters' control.
Also there's a third camp: message, where the focus is on the message more than the characters or plot. An example would be Animal Farm or the Lorax.
@@uanime1 I wish I could respond to those examples - I've read Animal Farm but have not seen any of the movies you've mentioned. Can you suggest any more recent films that might fall under those banners?
In terms of Animal Farm (and my memory of the book) I'd say it's still character driven - characters making choices that drive the plot.
@@adz951
"Can you suggest any more recent films that might fall under those banners?"
Regarding plot driven movies I recommend any war movie as the character will be told where to go and who to fight, and all the character can do is fight, desert, or die. The important thing is that the character's motivation is determined by someone else, thus they have limited agency. For example in the Sands of Iwo Jima the American soldiers are fighting the Japanese soldiers because these countries are at war and if they weren't at war none of these soldiers would have any reason to fight.
Outside of war movies I recommend movies where the character has to react to the situation but there isn't a character with the ability to resolve the situation by themselves. Examples would be Shin Godzilla (the choice is do the one thing that can stop Gozilla or get nuked by the USA), The Hobbit (Bilbo can help but cannot win a war by himself). Most superhero and action movies wouldn't count since the heroes have all the power they need to stop the villain by themselves. Regarding James Bond while he is ordered by the government to stop the villains (limited agency) he almost always has all the skills/gadgets he needs to defeat the villains by himself so I'd say he doesn't count.
Plot driven movies are becoming rare since Hollywood wants heroes who have complete agency and can solve all the problems by themselves.
Regarding message driven movies I recommend any movie nominated for best documentary at the Oscars. Movies outside of this are pretty rare so I can only list some of the most famous ones such as Supersize Me (fast food is bad for your health), Lorax (environmentalism), Day after tomorrow (climate change), Animal Farm (dictatorships can quickly form), Grave of the Fireflies (war can destroy lives).
"In terms of Animal Farm (and my memory of the book) I'd say it's still character driven - characters making choices that drive the plot."
For the majority of the book Napoleon is the only character whose choices matter, with everyone else having to react to those choices. When the choices the POV characters face is obey, flee, or die the POV characters aren't driving the plot any more.
very often I write down lines as I'm going, or as I'm envisioning it, and they rarely make it in. but they help crystallize the concept and motivate you to get it done
I like how this is the same wise advice as Alan Watt, just explained from another perspective: care about your character before your structure.
"If you don't want to see my ad, go ahead and--" SKIP.
Same.
Jack Perez talking the truth, mad respect man.
So here's an interesting thing. I've been learning about psychology and human behavior since I was 13, and having characters that behave realistically has merit. I got into writing with the intention of being true to what I had learned about people, but then I saw something on The West Wing. There was a scene in the first episode where a woman was mad at a guy, and as he's trying to explain his motives, she goes up to him and slaps him in the face. Normally when people get slapped, they get really mad. He didn't get really mad, he just kinda threw his arms up as if to say "What gives?" Then she explained her position, which developed the scene. So that's when it really clicked for me that characters are different from people. You can choose to have them behave realistically, or you can choose to have them behave unrealistically. I think you can definitely do both in the same story, having characters behave realistically adds believability and uncertainty to the story, where the story may require a certain type of response, but they behave in a way that upends that path, but then there are times where you can be a puppet master and have the characters behave in a way that serves the story, perhaps you set up a situation, and having them evoke a certain, but unrealistic, response can have an emotional payoff that being too realistic may subvert. I think it's advantageous to decide on a case-by-case basis.
I think it's best to stick with one style for each project. If you want a more plot driven story with unrealistic characters that's fine but make sure they remain that way.
If you want a character driven story where the plot develops based on realistic character motivations then keep it that way until the end of the project.
Very very true...,
once write has figured out exact personality of main character....,that character itself helps writer to carry forward story in authentic manner....& Close to reality too
I’m really trying to fit this good interview into the world of... Mega shark Versus Giant Octopus. Very confusing.
THANK GOD FOR THIS PAGE!
This was a really refreshing video!
I strongly agree with Mr. Perez that the characters matter more than the plot. Of course, I would say that there is no plot without characters, so the two do not exist separately the way I see it. But there certainly are some filmmakers who believe in "cool shit" as Mr. Perez expresses it, and I think he is justified in using that expression.
For me, at least, I would never be motivated to tell a story if I didn't care about the characters. And I often find the temptation to write in cool elements easy to resist if I judge these elements to contradict the greater purposes of the story.
He nailed the Game of Thrones finale
this channel is incredible
Thanks Coach!
I feel like this guy, Jack Perez, would make an excellent actor.
I think is based on what the writer focused on, character or plot, because you can make characters first or plot first. Both character and plot can give a sepsific message that writer want to said.
I always try to turn my plots into character driven plots.
I prefer stories that don't need twists are the best. Also, twists usually feel cheap or like a simple way to flip things to make the story different. Take the movie Hancock for example, I really liked where it was going and what it was about until the Charlize Theron superhero switch too. It would have been more fulfilling and dynamic if it wasn't a thing about destiny weakening him by being with her, but that he's weakened when he gets his heart broken (That sounds like a great story waiting to happen.) I feel like the Hancock character was going in a strong direction too with that story he told about Frankenstein. I would have preferred not knowing where he came from and what his backstory was. It's funny but it made the movie feel less real when it was revealed who they were and that there were two superhuman type characters. Also, it's funny how precise I'm being about a movie that came out years ago haha. And man did I hate the switch in "Glass." That movie could have ended so much better.
I'm pretty sure this is also Tarantino's style of approaching a script and tbh it's one of the best advice you're ever going to get about storytelling. 🙌
Character is most important to me as a witness to a characters story. I hate it when a "Twist" de-values the entire first portion of the characters journey, The Sixth Sense was a very successful twist because it didnt make the first portion of the film redundant.
If you come up with some cool thing, and you want that to be one of the center pieces of your story, think to yourself what kind of character would actually do this? That way you can get your "thing" done believably. You will have "less freedom" in writing your character that way, but you can still do a strong and flushed out character.
If you come up with a cool character, and you want him to be the center of your story. Well, then you have a little less freedom with the direction of your plot. I think you can do it both ways. I have no clue what kind of character would chase someone with a crop duster, but I'm sure one could be thought up in a satisfying manner.
I feel this is very insightful and I would at the moment, agree with what Jack says, but a quick google search to the films he has worked on gives me very mixed feelings on taking his advice.
amazing advice
this guy said it, i always hear people saying, "oh, a good movie is a movie that has a great ending, a twist, and ending that blows me away" and it is cool to watch movies like that but i don't think that's the only way to tell a good story
Was thinking of kat dennings in Thor. I always remember her character because she was so likeable and funny and there for pretty much no reason. But I always remember her.
In my own writing, I often end up giving the reins to the characters and have to update the outline afterwards. Sometimes, I manage to force my characters back into the plot, but it's like herding cats.
In my own story the climax in Act 2 of this 3 act story the protagonist and antagonist were supposed to face off and have a fight that was just gonna be brutal and bloody. It was so badass and I wanted that for the ending of Act 2 so much. But as I wrote out the story it became abundantly clear that with the revelations and actual character of these two the fight could never make sense. This antagonist would never wanna harm this protagonist . And so when the protagonist arrives for his showdown the antagonist can only apologize and cry knowing all he's done already And the protagonist beats him to death. The antagonist doesn't even try to block or anything. It's a bloody and terrible scene to see unfold. But it's what these characters would do given everything that had occurred and been revealed.
Raise your hand if you watch these videos and quietly critique your own work to make sure you aren't breaking any rules
“Outlander” the only thread that make Jamie and Clair consistent are that they are played by the same actors. Other than that, it’s just contrivances to keep the thing keep spinning those plates.
Every writer needs to see this!
Chads: “are you an ass or boobs guy”
Writers: “are you a plot or character guy”
Ass and character of course...
I must say I can't stand it when characters are psychologly inconsistent, for no apparent reason.
I guess if we follow Dan Harmons wheel of focusing on what a character fundamentally wants and the underlying need behind it, along with competing interests. Maybe itll help fix those issues.
Generally a lot of tales are an obstacle course and personal evolution in pursuing a desire.
Interesting characters make interesting choices... that drive the story.
"You can't just put stuff in because it's cool..." J. J. Abrams has entered the chat.
I didn’t know there was a phrase to describe these 2 types of characters, but now I do. And now I understand why certain characters don’t appeal to me. As someone working to hone their skill in writing action stories, I really don’t like it when characters are just there to make a cool action scene happen. It’s tacky.
So, do I think of characters who serve or who motivate the plot? I’m going to go with those who motivate the plot. Those who have to choose how to react to new scenes based on the actions they made before that brought about this new scene. Meaning that, if they’d chosen to do something different in the previous scene, this new one wouldn’t exist or would be completely different. Like life.
That’s how I justify new scenes in my action stories. If the characters making a different choice in the previous scene wouldn’t change the new scene, I have to ask myself if that new scene really serves the story or if it’s just something cool that I wanted to include because it’s cool. Having said that, sometimes I do include scenes because I think they’re cool. Just not every scene.
Film gives us a lens into the human spirit like nothing else can." Kimberly Steward.
"You should not dream your film. You should make it." Mr. Steven Spielberg.
Of all the music that reached farthest into heaven, it is the beating of a loving heart.
Henry Ward Beecher. "The only limit is the one you set yourself." - Felix Baumgartner
Manhattan New York City. February 2019. Twenty seven year old, Josephine Warren, an courageous and fearless arts educator, disability legal justice activist, and a future film director and film producer, reflects on her wonderful childhood growing up in Manhattan New York City and coping with mild High Functioning Aspergers Autism Syndrome and coping with her getting bullied, (through her love of theater and film screenwriting). Josephine, 27, the eldest of four children; Sandra Warren, 25, Michaela Warren, 25, and Josephine’s only and youngest brother Reed Warren, lived in Manhattan New York City her whole life. In late February 2019, Josephine Warren, expressed to her siblings and her parents, just how much she wanted to attend film directing graduate school at the University of Southern California Los Angeles, instead of serving in the US Navy Seals as a military aviation technician. Toward the middle of her life, her bullies and her parents Trisha Warren and Alex Warren; former Navy Seal graduates keep on, hiding her film school applications in their office drawers, as, they fear that Josephine, their daughter, would fail to follow in her parents footsteps of becoming a Navy Seal West Point Academy soldier; as that is what the Warren family legacy is defined as, according to Josephine Warren. Even though Josephine lived with Aspergers her entire life, Josephine would use her adversity and failures, as foundation blocks, toward her evolving into one of the most inspiring film directors in New York City and global history; At the end of her film, Josephine Warren, receives the most inspiring reward of her life, and she ends up inspiring, tens of billions of lives, through her artistic voice
and loving and gratitude giving heart and human existence alone.
At the film’s end, Vincent Everett, an doctoral graduate student of
the University of Phoenix and a Five Star US Navy Seals Admiral at
Phoenix’s “SEALS RECRUIT ACADEMY” in Arizona, falls romantically
in love with Josephine, in Baka Jerusalem Israel after reading her film
script for Superheroic and shows his soldiers unit, that the human race
can inspire, even in adversity and obstacles. Superheroic, A Mr. Jonathan
Trauner Directed Film. (I have shared my Superheroic film script to the Scarlet
Lens Film Production Company of Toronto Canada and to Mrs. Leah Rifkin; Renowned Film Director and Author of Beyond The Directors Chair; She said that my story has the power to inspire the Oscar Academy of Beverly Hills California. Even though I have Aspergers, I have completed my Superheroic film story, I am an Israeli American immigrant Jerusalem Jewish Israeli citizen, and I work for Mobileye Intel in Jerusalem for their Computer Algorithms Correction Department. I also shared my Superheroic film story with Nancy Spielberg and she was so inspired by my story, characters, and Superheroic film script message; My dream is to win an Oscar Academy Award in Los Angeles California in real life. My mission as a film director and storyteller is to inspire the world through storytelling, love, gratitude, and heart. Main Theme for my Future Oscar Academy Award Winning Film Superheroic; Never Give Up. (The Score, Unstoppable). The Score's Unstoppable identifies with my primary Superheroic film theme which is never give up. ruclips.net/video/Xydf351l-gw/видео.html
Thanks
I really like a story where a character changes or makes a big decision near the end. Casablanca is like that.
I agree with him that surprise endings seem kinda cheap.
I mostly agree. However, a movie with no plot or a bad plot can not be saved by an interesting character. A film with flat characters can work with a gripping plot, as long as you care enough about the characters.
But, generally speaking, he is mostly correct. And he is most certainly correct that the protagonist has to be the one making the decisions and taking the actions which drive the plot. This is key.
“You have this pile up of cool sh*t.” The emphasis here, of course, is on sh*t.
This is a problem the current Star Wars movies are suffering from. I'm dumbfounded that these things get greenlit. Without good writing, it's all forgettable garbage. Simple analogy is that the character(s) are the mouse (mice) and the plot is the maze they have to be put through to get the cheese. Without mice we can root for, who cares? Disney, is Mickey just any old rat? Or is he a specific character?
You can make money, or you can make art that will stand the test of time and become a classic. And you can do both, it just takes talent and some care. But it should always be the goal.
The word I prefer is “coherency”. The tight rope tetradactyl scene must fit seamlessly with the whole of the story.
Plot is work. Character is necessary to carry the plot. In short, I write in terms of personality rather than characterization. It helps me understand the goal better with the word personality. Your show should have personality as well as your characters. All characters need a sense of humor, even if its just for a moment, dark, eerie, sinister, it doesn't matter. But using tone to carry your story is important and you accomplish this with a personality to your story. That's what makes it feel unique and is unique. In order to accomplish this, you need a personality yourself. Ah ha, that's the problem!
The issue is the ex machina sometimes the characters get used as a plot device they feel less like a character
I agree an interesting character is worth a thousand plots. A good character will make the story write itself.
Characters are easier to write than plots apparently, because plot holes are typically accepted as collateral damage. This in spite of the increasingly well-documented cases of audience PTSD.
When your character is defined as a hot head for example it makes sense for not acting logically.
I don't think twists are cheap but yes there is more to a story than a good twist.
All these film courage videos are very useful: They demonstrate the kind of crap you get if you hire a script doctor.
Breaking Bad was totally written character first and then they wondered what the character would do or say in this situation. They didn't predetermine what themes would be explored either, but said they came naturally after the fact as they put two different characters together.
I don't think the plot and all the why's and how's are even remembered, yet everyone seems to remember who the characters are.
Oh man, he's right A LOT of movies do that, just making shit look cool but stupid.
It sounds like Jack Perez dislikes poorly written characters and the easiest way for him to write is to create the character first then once he’s fully realized said character he lets some part of his mind that this character speaks through guide him to the end.
Personally, I think you have do things either way. I think a good story requires both great characters and strong plot. The exact direction you start from is writer preference but both elements need to be there and they need to be strong.
From the point of view of a Game Master, I basically exist to tell EVERYONE ELSE'S story(ies) at the table... The Players create the PC's, the heroes (or villains if that's their thing) who actually TAKE agency in the world-setting and mold it to their vision(s) of the future "how things should be"...
BUT... I still have to create the litany of "everyone else" in the world. For a table of six Players (and thus usually 6 "PC's") the other billions of people, humans, apes that talk, dwarves, dragons, gnomes, elves, orcs, drow, monstrosities, droids, or what have you are all on MY shoulders... A majority are there as "fodder" just to dress up the towns and villages (or cities and metro-plexes) with life. A fair fraction also have to serve plots and story hooks... They drag along the usual schtick, doing a job for a boss or pulling the "company line" as it were from behind the scenes...
Then there are the few "Plotters" who reappear in various capacity to either help the PC's along in their efforts, or hinder them with BS and occasionally outright assaults...
Finally, there are "villains" to the PC's "heroes" (give or take role reversal) to think about, and once in a while I get to throw in a "true heavy" or even a "nemesis"... These are the highest of achievements for a PC or Party to butt heads against.
SO it's reasonable to concede that in RPG's, the Characters ABSOLUTELY drive the plot(s) forward. Particularly true of willful Players with intent, but even with Players who like to railroad a campaign through modules and follow their storyline to fruition, the PC's (Player Characters) can be interesting if constructed thoughtfully and then played and fleshed out "in-game" well. It's possible to RP in such a way that you (individual Player) are very WELL aware of a "rail-roady" or limited choice style of campaign, but that your Character (drawn up in so many statistics and numerical skill or ability levels) is completely unaware that he/she is acting as the story requires, not by a particular agency of their own...
In writing, whether novel or cinematic, there are stories that do present "a pile of cool shit"... AND it's painfully obvious when you read/watch them. Done well, or as well as possible, the cool stuff is fun enough to watch that you don't really consider (too much) the sensibility involved (or the lack of it)... "Desperado" is a good example. It keeps relatively close to character design and arc, while still being entirely composed of "cool shit to watch"... more than a quality dramatic piece or even a great comedy work... There's nothing wrong with it.
At the same time, there's nothing wrong with starting the outline with a short-list (I'd probably limit to three scenes, myself) of things that are "so cool they have to be included"... BUT the trick here is to be thorough in the detective work as you basically "write backwards"... I've done it, AND can honesty assure you it's a top-notch pain in the ass!
In my experience, you start with the scene (from that short-list) and ask, "How did we get here..." and write up the list of possibilities. Then you pick the best explanations for that, and move to that explanation to ask the same again... as you go, you should start writing up the Character(s) involved... similar to a Character Sheet in a TTRPG, and any of a thousand sites on the internet or probably a million available second-hand RPG guides and books can give great examples and suggestions about building Characters...
If you just keep repeating this process, you can create the back-story for just about any one scene... stitching together from one scene to another is a little more difficult ("touch and go"?)... but with a bit of luck and careful guidance, you should be able to accomplish it.
NOW... in my experience (um... dubious at the best of times) the first draft is going to be a piece of crap, AND it's probably going to read like a hopeless collection of flashbacks or dream sequences... That's where you "clean it up" and start "straightening out the kinks"... It's a big continuity issue, making sure all the quirks of Character are included in EVERY scene from set-up to climax, and that you can give just enough wiggle room for development as you fill in any plotholes and/or eliminate obvious drek. I've found the second draft to be the best point in process to really "deep dive" into the "story bible" a list of rules and laws by which the storyline MUST function in order to be "real" in this particular world-setting...
SO what IS my experience???
In retro- (or "reverse") writing? In-game, I've had to conjure up explanations in lore for particular festivals, or excuses for superstitions... both for Non-Player Characters involved in a given campaign as well as Player Characters who's Players were just "dry" for a background reason, but had this hilarious quirk they just can't possibly leave out... (ugh)...
Sometimes, I have to create the reasons for over-engineered "villainous plots" to satisfy the Players as they investigate whatever is going on and then make efforts to stop the villains from "winning" at any cost. It's not always the easiest thing to do, explaining WHY a villain who's been thoughtful enough to infiltrate an Imperial Fortification to steal a core component of some super-weapon, only to leave it laying around in a crate somewhere in a cave in the jungle... as opposed to building a new super-weapon with it to destroy the Imperial Forces, or worse...
SO writing "bass ackwards" isn't exactly natural, but it can actually be done well, and Players with much intelligence, WILL call you out for shoddy craft... especially if (like me) you're the kind of facetious ass who calls them out for shoddy acting or poor Character Development efforts... We work together in the collab' of Gaming, so we (often abrasively) have each other's backs. (lolz)
On the "Plot-focused" school of thought... Actually, there are inherently (maybe) six total plots...
1. Murder/revenge
2. Kidnap/hostage
3. Infiltrate/theft
4. Delivery/messenger
5. Romance/Seduction
6. Politics/Campaign
Pretty much every "other" kind of adventure is some twist or combination of those six... Trust me, I've been GM'ing as much as Playing for 30+ years... and there really isn't anything else. Derive the story to it's basic skeletal form, and this is what you'll get... SO the remarkably original works aren't so much original stories as they are uniquely interpretted with unusually relatable and powerfully layered and fleshed characters (among litanies of other details) to package the whole thing. Great stories "feel" like they're original because of those details, whether high fantasy settings and clever semantics are used to obfuscate the same old kidnapping/rescue plot, OR stranger characters acting bizarrely in futuristic settings excuse just another "heist" being planned and executed with twists into seduction and politics to obscure it... It only "feels" unique while you're busy suspending belief to invest in the interesting parade of characters that drive the thing forward OR do everything to slow or reverse the plot as it shambles and staggers and clatters down the otherwise very uninteresting and predictable course of every other Kidnapping/rescue OR Infiltration/Theft course ever dreamed. ;o)
I'd add a general: Mystery/Protection to the list. as someone might want to explore while being wary of losing what they have.
@@convolution223, not a terrible suggestion... Except that under the "protection" you derive by asking "what are you protecting against?"... Either 1. Murder/attack OR 2 kidnap OR 3 Theft... All of which were mentioned, and it's not a hard leap of logic to suggest that anyone with something to lose WILL be protecting it "the best they can"...
As for exploration, it's an element of world-building involved in practically every story ever told.
BUT... getting back to the point (of my original)... It's not about creating or telling an original story. Those just don't really exist... The nuances of sci-fi and fantasy or futuristic dystopias only provide an interesting new PERSPECTIVE for telling the same old plots and twists. If you can handle that basic understanding of writing and creative process, no matter your choice venue for stories or character presentations, you can and likely will find success.
If you can NOT handle that basic principle, then you'll only find success in a very short term, up to the point that the evidence will become so vast and so obvious that you can no longer deny it... AND the inevitable collapse will suck the fun and purpose of bothering right out of you.
I had a "dry" spell some... oh about 12 or 13 years back. I used to think there were all kinds of ways to make original stories... original characters... and I was rather "too impressed" with myself and my table(s). THEN... someone a little more thoughtful about their reading repertoire came to play. I've been fairly well read, the classics as well as a relatively impressive list of contemporary works... and not even to mention everything I could get my mitts on regarding history... field guides... and instructionals (like DIY cabinetmaking, or Tools and their uses from the Dept of Navy)... SO I wasn't easily intimidated by someone "being well read" or "well versed in so-and-so"...
BUT... This gal could pick a book off the top of her head and list at least two characters that everyone's PC reminded her of. She could sit through a handful of sessions (usually 5 or 6) and start predicting EXACTLY where the "big-bad" was and what was being plotted behind the scenes... Now, she didn't make a big habit of ruining the story every time she could... She only spoke up about it occasionally, and it came in the form of a question... BUT it was no less infuriating at the time.
"You're seriously not about to..." She would preamble into the EXACT friggin' plan I was building toward...
...AND what the hell do you say to that? "Um... well... Yeah, that's what I WAS going to do... till you opened your mouth and ruined the fucking thing... OKAY... Break time so I can screw together another plot... smoke 'em if you got 'em!"
AND for a short time, I dumped GM'ing on her lap. I wasn't "good enough" to keep the game interesting, at least in her obvious opinion, so I drew Character Sheets... AND found myself (like the rest of the table) getting suggestions around the different stories and authors who had "dubiously similar" characters in their work...
Then I dropped out of the game for about three months... I had to reckon with the lack of plots actually available. It didn't take too long, and I wasn't an ass about it, excusing myself politely for "other projects that so severely needed my effort"... There are a couple different lists out there, from a couple different "schools of philosophy" on the matter, but in my own reckoning, I refined it down to those six (6)... beyond which I find repetitive to one degree or other.
Now, I'm not ranting here. I can understand your suggestion, and appreciate the thought going into it. I'm only trying to clarify from where I left off, so you can maybe have an easier time "simplifying" and "deriving" the same lessons that I pissed away a couple months getting through (and over with emotionally) myself. Don't sweat it... The whole world and all of humanity is a rather... unimaginative bunch if we really bothered scrutinizing it. SO we will probably prefer not to scrutinize. We (writers) will enjoy creating our interesting twists and sharing stories with others... AND we (readers/audience) will enjoy NOT studying too dubiously hard over those stories to sweat out all the flat-out unoriginal tripe that gets occasionally peppered into every story told just to keep some of the world-craft anchored to words and terms we can understand. Sorry this thing got quite so friggin' long again... (lolz)
Suspense of disbelief is called that for "reasons". Right? ;o)
Interesting read there man, the part about coming up with a few must-have secenes and piecing them together backwards is absolutely my method. What you get is multiple dream sequences that loosely connect to one anothe, so it is a bit difficult to stitch but when it clicks it really f'n clicks.
You should be the one interviewed by Film Courage, haha.
I read this whole thing, you're awesome
Profound advice from the guy who did Mega Shark vs Giant Octopus....
I was so invested Mega Shark's character arc. It was such a profound emotional journey.
Being the character and write..boom🎉
yeah i prefer a plot where am not able to tell whats going to happen next to a predictable one with great characters. its just more engaging and exciting if you cant tell whats going to happen next in a movie. The best ones merge the two like game of thrones. Social network was absolutely fucking brilliant because it realised since we already knew the ending being that its public knowledge and it used that ending as sorta the beginning striking element in the story and introduced characters we didnt really know of like sean parker to spice up the story and keep us interested. i mean thats my favourite screenplay of all time and i keep learning something from it everytime.
The Hateful Eight was based on Characters and Tarantino didn't knew how to end it. the original idea was about Django being stuck with 7 psychos but he said nah let's remove Django and replace him with a new character that can do things Django can't.