If you are wondering where I think Ichigo stacks up against other Swordsman from other series I think Ichigo does fairly well. I believe swordsmen like Zoro, Inuyasha, Kirito, Mihawk, etc. don't show real technique and get bodied pretty easily. I think certain swordsman have a stylistic advantage over Ichigo like Saber (Adaptable), Kenshin(Tricksy), and Mugen(Similar style to Grimmjow). Also if you would like to see the "Bleach has no Swordsman" video: ruclips.net/video/59vhVE9wJXU/видео.htmlsi=r8tG7uuOXp2lY4nb
Id say kirito is way better then you think he is because he had actual kendo training since he was young and won competition on top of him adapting very quickly in a fight
@@halojeff15 ah yes the guy who puts a sword in his mouth and spins like a helicopter is a TRUE example of sword art. Or a guy who carries around a butter knife and can deflect a katana, yes the realism bleeds from the page. Or Inuyasha who has, and I counted 2 attacks vertical cut and horizontal cut.
@@2centswanted113 yea a guy who wears a black cloak and screams his attacks is better than everyone because he looks cooler , i can say dumb shit too bro , zoro using 3 swords at once is already a statement to his swordsmanship and mihawk being so good with any blade is already better than ichigo who we never seen use other weapons besides his zanpakuto and inyusha is a swordsman as well , kirito has kendo . ichigo swordsmanship isn't up to par dawg yall can wank him in a corner like diddy but that doesn't make it true.
@@halojeff15 wait what? Hold on did you just compare Ichigo's outfit and Super powers to the fact that Zoro holds a sword in his teeth as a knock against Ichigo's sword skill. Please point out to me where Zoro actually uses a sword technique? Or changes his style to match his opponent. Recognizing weapon advantage. You know anything I pointed out in the video. But no, apparently fighting 3 katanas with a butter knife and holding a katana in your teeth is the exact same as wearing traditional Japanese clothing (funny how you make fun of a culture that you so diligently watch) and firing a wave of energy from his sword. 🤣🤣🤣 one of us actually has experience and knows what they are talking about the other literally has no clue. Make a real point or don't respond cuz this is a waste of time
To be clear, Ichigo was officially trained in Martial Arts for the longest time. Even after he quit, Ishin made sure he could defend himself from any surprise attack by attacking him all the time, even in his sleep. The only amount of official sword training he ever got was from Urahara and Old Man Zangetsu. With that and his years of prior Martial Arts training, and Ishin constantly attacking him, he has the reflexes and knowledge to fight, he just has to extend it out with the extra length of the sword. As far as I know, it's far easier to teach someone how to use a sword if they're already trained in Martial Arts then it is to teach someone with no experience at all.
So this video is supposed to be 11 minutes long but I cut out the other martial stuff and decided to use it in another video. But pretty much ya, a lot of my base martial arts helped me pick up certain things with a sword but also hurt me in other areas. Some thing's are just not intuitive.
@@2centswanted113 I'd imagine edge alignment would be one of those things but seeing as I'm not trained in any sense of the word I don't know. Could you elaborate on where it hurt? I've never actually heard that before.
@@tekiyuyami6406 yes! You hit it on the head. See as a classically trained boxer I'm taught to rotate my wrist and punch through my target. So turning my wrist to vy for position or striking through my opponents guard was easy but making sure my edge alignment is correct when also making those cuts and such wasn't as intuitive, at least for me.
@@2centswanted113and just because we like bleach ain't nothing wrong with here in the criticism it's the only way to help the show get better good content though
Fun Fact: The art of fighting with a Zanpakuto actually has a name to it in Bleach. It’s Called Zanjutsu, and is considered shameful for any Soul Reaper not to learn.
Yes and no. Zanjutsu is the Zanpakutou wielding skill, which consists of their Zanpakutou innate abillities and unleashed forms. Byakuya using his sakura petals is a form of Zanjutsu, but it would not be considered sword-wielding untill he creates a katana to wield for himself. Other example would be Renji and his original giant snake hip Bankai, which forces Renji to completely change his fighting style compared to katana/shikai. Zanjutsu is Zanpakutou prowess in every aspect and form individual for each Shinigami.
@@boredom120 Correct, but every soul reaper has a sword, some just don't use them. Example: Yoruichi. She is a mostly Taijutsu/Hakuda user, but does have a Zanpakuto.
the only reason people don't think Ichigo can't use a sword is because Bleach doesn't usually show flashy swordplay. And they(the people who seemingly know so much about swordplay) all know that flashy move set is what differentiates a swordsman from a baseball bat user.
The problem is Bleach is excellent in so many areas that it gets overshadowed. Kubo brings to bear a plethora of weapons and styles that aren't from Japan like Ginjo's great sword. Ginjo actually weilds it like a great sword instead of other series where people swing great swords like baseball bats.
@@2centswanted113The anime kinda fixed that with Ichigo vs the Bambis where we see him effectively use dual zanpakutos like how you would dual wield normal blades, and this was with NO experience on dual wielding.
Yes I cut out an extra 3 minutes of Ichigo's martial prowess at the end. I guess I'm saving it for another video. Ichigo is a poor man's Kenpachi when it comes to the desire to fight and he is good at it. One thing I've always seen is people never give Ichigo credit for usually being in a 1v5+ or 2v12 fights. Ichigo almost never is in a fair fight
Another early impressive showing of his skill was when he very quickly and fluidly incapacitated the Lieutenants using the dull areas of his blade mixed with melee while moving to rescue Rukia. He may have been taught lethal skills from an ex assassin in Kisuke but Ichigo knows when to get deadly and when not to. And managing that using a blade is not as easy as it seems.
Funfact: these melee attacks Ichigo uses are not normal punches or kicks they are special soul reaper fighting techniques each with a name passed down and taught by his dad
He doesn't use his blade at all in the manga. Go read Chapter 152. He stabs Zangetsu in the ground and punches all of them. (Breaks Omaeda's Shikai, uppercuts Choujirou, center-strikes Isane.) Not using your sword to defeat sword users is not swordsmanship, and no one cares what the anime has him doing.
@@DuxSupremus This was a display of Hakuda taught to Ichigo by his father rather then him using the Zanjutsu taught by Urahara which is later used in his fight with Byakuya they are two of the four basic fighting styles of the Shinigami both of which Ichigo is a master of.
@@senpaistreams502 Yeah, that doesn't change the fact that 1. Hakuda is not Zanjutsu, 2. Ichigo doesn't actually use Zanjutsu. Ichigo uses Getsuga Tenshou, his Shikai special ability which is what Kisuke was trying to teach him to unlock. Ichigo also extensively uses Blut Vene and Blut Arterie against Renji (both in Karakura and Soul Society), Kenpachi, Byakuya, and even Aizen when Aizen "miscalculates" in cutting him in half. Blut is not Zanjutsu. Kisuke didn't teach Ichigo jack except how to adapt his instinctual and experiential fighting style to "serious" Shinigami duels instead of street fighting punks. Ichigo doesn't suddenly bust out Kidou or any named Zanjutsu moves or Hakuda or anything else. He never names an attack besides Getsuga Tenshou. It's because he doesn't formally know any other attacks. Because he wasn't trained. Because that wasn't the focus of Kisuke's training. The best you can say is Ichigo "instinctively" knows Hakuda from Isshin, but he still never names an attack, and all proper Hakuda attacks are named. Ichigo has no formal education in it. He doesn't know Zanjutsu, Kidou, or Hohou. He doesn't even use Shunpo, for godsakes, he usually uses Sonido. Kisuke only taught him killer instinct. He doesn't know any other Shinigami moves formally.
@@DuxSupremus Yes both Ichigo's Hakuda and Zanjutsu moves have names some listed on the wiki they are not spelled out and when one character used a Zanjutsu technique and bragged about it he got one shot by chad showing how stupid it is boasting about a fucking sword swing all shinigami are formally taught that's why they don't scream them never seen kenpachi yell "Ryōdan" like a moron. Ichigo was taught proper Zanjutsu from both Urahara as noted by Ikakku and also White/Zangetsu as all spirits are well versed in Zanjutsu also to add to the list of things your wrong about Ichigo has never used Sonido out of "vasto lorde" form we can tell by the sound difference and Ulquiorra making a big fuss over it also saying the character with a speed power up can't use Hohou is beyond idiotic it's also stated multiple times a good percent of a shinigami's potential comes from their family and Ichigo is part of one of the great clans and has great mastery over Zankensoki other then kido use please *THINK*.
@@KurosakiNexus yea my point being tho that most ppl ive ever heard bash bleach complained about length. That the story Is longer than it needs to be. My friend holds this opinion yet He likes one piece.
@@usernameig975 I personally don’t like one piece, and don’t know why people enjoy a mid ass story stretched to infinite. I only really like Bleach and Db from the 4 popular shounen.
a quick thing to note is that its a misconception that ichigo was faster than Byakuya, he underestimated him and got caught off guard twice, especially losing sight of him the first time, what he was speed blitzing was actually his Senbonzakura as Byakuya was able to keep up with him until he slowed down, but could keep track of him the entire time. it shows as well that the second Ichigo slowed down too much he was struggling to keep up as with Byakuya only Senbonzakura was
I don't disagree. I will say Ichigo was fast enough to press Byakuya, so much so he felt the need to increase his killing power because he was able to get to Byakuyas flank and wound him after deflecting all of the petals directed by Byakuya. It was at that point Ichigo's body couldn't keep up
Saying ichigo isn't a good swordsman is basically saying yhwach and kisuke aren't They taught him And then ichigo later goes sword for sword,no powers what so ever, against yhwach
No because his swordsman techniques are only what you'd do if you were an anime character, the techniques he performs are flashy and impractical. Actual swordsman techniques aren't THIS flashy and are practical.
@@soundrogue4472you again are wrong. Some are undeniably dead clean and simple. For expample the riposte thrust, that’s classic fencing shit. Usually done with a straighter sword but it can be done using a katana, just requires a little angling. Also, if it’s something that would actually be practical if you were really fast and strong, even if he only does it because he is it’s STILL skilled. If a master swordsman can suddenly do something else and it’s practical they’ll do it. If anything that shows he’s even more skilled because he adapted from being a normal dude to doing things he couldn’t before as he gains power. Not only are you wrong, the point you brought up goes against your own opinion.
@@blacksabbath5300 what scene/ fights can I look up on youtube where he is doing these fencing techinques? I can't find anyone online mention this expect you unless google's search engine is being broken. I heard the AI copolit bring up the fencing techinques. Besides this; how effective is it to use a fighting style not fit for a big ass weapon or even a katana to use fencing style of combat? You wouldn't fight with a short sword the same way you'd fight with a katana because it wouldn't be as effective.
Again to point this out. No because his swordsman techniques are only what you'd do if you were an anime character, the techniques he performs are flashy and impractical. Actual swordsman techniques aren't THIS flashy and are practical.
@@UnifiedEntityI agree; that said no one goes around and says, "so and so character is a skilled swordsman" because that'd be silly, expect One Piece fans with Zoro. Ichigo is a good fighter; just a bad swordsman.
7:06 i find it interesting in retrospect Byakuya directly thrusts the blade at ichigo's face in a way he couldnt see the side of the blade. This is likely due to the face the human eye has a difficulty registering movement and velocity of things that move in a straight line directly toward it like a boxer throwing a straight. It almost in its self indicates how thoughtful and potentially knowledgeable Byakuya is as a swordsman to react with this when he catches Ichigo slipping.
Anime fans needs a breakdown of every movement in order for them to classify it as technical/skillful/strategic otherwise will dismiss it for random movement or a basic punch/sword slash. You put it best with the Giyu Dead calm statement. It has a name, a breakdown of what it does vs ichigo who just does it
They really do. I find it disappointing honestly. Not that everyone should know everything but if your going to have an opinion make sure it's your own and not some brain dead take from 2005
Again I have to point this out. No because his swordsman techniques are only what you'd do if you were an anime character, the techniques he performs are flashy and impractical. Actual swordsman techniques aren't THIS flashy and are practical.
@@soundrogue4472 this take doesn't make sense within fantasy settings. Any character that can perform supernatural feats can create new ways to perform techniques. But this comment contradicts your criticism from the other thread, Ichigo literally works from the bind in his fight against Ginjo and uses an efficient thrust to win the fight.
Really great analyzing of Ichigos skills. Actually crazy how many people just read on Surface lvl and claim he doesn't have top tier lvl swordsmanship. Amazing video, bro. Subscibed because of this
@2centswanted113 Don't put yourself down. Like i said, great analysis. I hope this video gets way more views because it deserves it. Thanks for the recommendation. I will def check out more videos. Keep up the good work
One thing that massively changes the way that Ichigo vs Byakuya went down is not only is Byakuya more experienced and stronger than Ichigo, Ichigo had only just unlocked his Bankai not even a day before they fought and that was his first time ever using it. He had to learn what Byakuya could do and react to it along with figuring out the limits of his Bankai and relearn how to fight with it because it was a completely different sword for him.
Ichigo showing what he can do with 2 swords is impressive. To this day Ichigo's display against Grimmjow was definitely my favorite as far as his sword play. It wasn't refined, it was improvisational and wild
@@yashmehta4087 people sleep on Ichigo's skill especially how they discount Ichigo is normally fighting at a disadvantage. Ichigo fights gangs solo. Hell do it unarmed while they have clubs, tasers, knuckles, rocks, chains, etc.
@@yashmehta4087i still chuckle at the ambulance part. Ichigo is savage, plus ichigo even before he got his true zangetsu was skilled with a sword, guy was keeping up with Ywach and even managed to injure ywachs arm, something even old man yamamoto failed to do. Most people who talk crap about ichigo never even finished the soul society arc.
The thing honestly comes down to the flashyness of the whole verse. The reality is that a large handful of the verse is already decently skilled in swordsmenship that it then shifts to things like stats or abilities. Lets say there was only a small portion of charcters that were at the top in swordsmanship, great "swordsmanship" would be a lot easier for the reader to see.
This is true. Good point. I think it's more about needing recognition. Especially when you run across death battles or "give me your anime cold take" and it's "Man Bleach is just all flashy explosions and no skill, Naruto is better with a sword than Ichigo" type stuff that bothers me
@@tekiyuyami6406 I think people genuinely forget that the characters in bleach are death gods. The skill ceiling has been so high out the gate that there is no need to really point out ones "sword skill" unless it's levels beyond the bare minimum.
It's the same misconceptions people have with DBZ. At a certain point, it's not so much on the technique of the martial arts but utilization of it along with energy use, movement and reading the opponent and hopefully not outclassed in stats and ability. Goku in Z should be a Master at martial arts without wasted movement as opposed to a child where he clearly has to learn the subtly in fighting.
It genuinely shocks me how many people believe this claim just because he is shown being a swordsman in a way that isnt similar to the norm (zoro or kenshin or saber) doesnt mean he isn't a swordsman ichigo has his own style of fighting that grows and gets better with each encounter Its why yhwach was such a strong opponent for ichigo to overcome yhwach's almighty quite literally counters ichigo's whole style of combat.
Zoro isn't a swordsman but Kenshin and Saber are legit. Ichigo is also in that legit category. These characters will use real technique or stances or philosophies and get no credit. But because Zoro puts a sword in his mouth people freak out
Considering ichigo is facing off against characters who have had over a hundred years experience in swordplay and battle tactics etc, he's probably considered the most skilled in swordsmanship in the human world.
You mean to tell me an anime ghost/demon/stand-user/church boy/Jesus-2 doesn't ALWAYS use accurate Historical Martial Arts? You can't tell but I'm shocked.
I love hearing about Ichigo and his skills. Makes me appreciate Kubo more. Also, since you mentioned Kirito in the pinned comment, I wonder how would he fair against Ichigo if they both would be at the same level of speed. Since Kirito is PRETTY DAMN SLOW for Shinigami standards, but I think his dual blade skill is a force to be reckoned with regardless.
Really liked this video, I never thought Itchigo was a bad swordsman but I never had good arguments for why he was actually highly skilled. The turning the sword moment against Ginjo is so subtle and cool that I didn't notice how crazy precise it was. I always just thought that was Itchigo overpowering him, not out-skilling him
Alot of what Kubo does is subtle. I'm just glad my video entertained and could help 🙏🏽. The thing about Ichigo that people will ignore or miss is that Ichigo is never starting a fight with the intent to kill just disable. The only 2 people that ever happened with was Yhwach and Ginjo technically Tsukishima as well but that was rage not ice cold murder.
The issue is mainly because the manga shows action with a lot of big decisive sweeps that cut through page and look really powerful, but it doesn’t leave a lot for the anime to work with most of the time. Lore wise yeah he’s supposed to be a great swordsman, but if you just watch the anime there isn’t a whole lot of times where it’s backed up by much other than exposition. At least comparatively to other sword fight anime
Ichigo is a streetfighter, he fights purely by instinct and overwhelming his opponent with superior speed and power. The moment an opponent has more speed or power, he loses.
@@2centswanted113 I mean you have zero points throughout the entire video. He's never trained swordplay ever in his life. All combat experience he ever received was reflex training from his own father ambushing him every day, and street fights with delinquents. He loses every single fight in the manga where he meets an opponent with greater power, and when he eventually wins, he does it by overpowering them through another cheat ability. He's an instinct fighter. You're trying to portray him as a swordsman, which by definition is someone who fights with extreme routine and discipline, that is NOT Ichigo. Ichigo is NEVER displayed to be this kind of character. He's reactionary, hot headed and often relies completely on his reflexes alone to defend and attack. I'll do you one better even. KENPACHI isn't a swordsman. By his own admission, in fact, he only uses Kendo once in the entire series.
@@Mephil"He's never trained swordplay ever in his life." So did you miss the part where he was training with Urahara after getting his Soul Reaper powers? Pretty sure Urahara taught him the basics of zanjutsu, and then the rest of his fighting style is self taught. Also the literal definition of Swordsman is "a man who fights with a sword", which he very clearly does.
@@ecanoya He was being chased around and dodging attacks, further training his reactionary style. "Pretty sure Urahara taught him Zanjutsu" is your headcanon, they didn't have time to do any of that. All they did was rush to unlock his bankai, that was IT. They had NO TIME for anything else. My boy ichigo fights like Mugen, he's not a Jin. An sure, if you define swordsman as a dude that is holding a sword, fine, he's a swordsman. But that is the most vapid definition I've ever heard. For me, I'd go with the definition of swordsmanship: "Swordsmanship or sword fighting refers to the skills and techniques used in combat and training with any type of sword." If we go for your definition, than I am a swordsman. You're a swordsman. Everybody can be a fucking swordsman.
@@Mephil I was talking about the ten days he trained before going to Soul Society. He even says that Urahara was the one that taught him how to fight when Ikkaku asks "Who was your master?" His fighting style is reactionary, sure, but that just means he doesn't have any formal training in any specific style. Mugen's swordsmanship is fairly improvisational too, like you said, so are you trying to claim that Mugen isn't a swordsman? Cause that'd just be silly.
People always overlook all the nuances in Bleach. The whole point of his training with Urahara was that he learned basic swordplay and got in ten days practice against Urahara. Prior to that Ichigo does say he's just relying on instinct, but from the start of the soul society arc Ichigo knows what he's doing. He doesn't improve his techniques much, he still spams the basics more than anything, but he's also smart enough to know he's spamming the basics and find ways to adapt using that. Just most of the improvement he does have are subtle and not outright highlighted so people just go "it's a shonen so he must have just gotten a power up!"
99% of criticism Bleach gets comes from people who never read or watched the series. I am not saying it isn't above criticism and as a fan I know there is a lot that Bleach can be critiqued on but you hardly ever hear anything about actual flaws.
Ya the dark years of having to defend Bleach every other day was crazy and everything was just unfounded nonsense. "Kubo can't write" "Ichigo is a boring MC with no motivation" etc. I'm glad those days are receding
It’s not that they’ve never seen the series they’ve just only seen the 2004 anime and never read the manga or watched Tybw, if you read the manga you’ll know 2004 Bleach is not a faithful adaptation to the manga
Or they just parrot opinions like: "It all went downhill from soul society." And "The anime Is longer than it needs to be." The second one could have some credibility the first one is just flat out wrong.
This video makes some good points , ichigo was taught all the etiquettes and teachings of a samurai who reaps the souls of humans and cleanses hollows, when going into battle against 100 year old experienced being ichigo was aware of how much he was outmatched but still mustered the courage to continue to fight as a inexperienced 16 year old substitute the first section of the show from the karakura arc to the aizen arc ichigo only had one year of experience and still did really good.
He fights with a sword, he's a swordsman. He might not have the raw skill or ability with one that characters from other anime might possess, but he's still good enough to stand up to other swordsmen in his universe.
He definitely can contend with notable swordsman in other series but those high tiers like Saber from Fate or someone with a wild style like Mugen from Samurai Champloo would probably beat Ichigo if all things were fair.
I know I'm late and this is the first time I've heard people say this about ichigo but, he is matching if not besting people who are called "Death Gods" and have had centuries of experience in combat, and he is a former martial artist high school student who has had only about a week of sword training. With said training being at least the basics, and a "keep learning as you go" way of fighting. If anything this kid has to be on some kind of crack to pull this off every damn time, even before learning about his cracked heritage and potential.
The "Ichigo just spams Getsuga" crowd has existed in the Bleachdom and outside of it since Ichigo learned the move. They ignore the actual times Kubo showed off how naturally good with a sword Ichigo is, and when Kubo gave an Zweihander to Ginjo and had Ginjo use it like how it's used IRL.... Chefs kiss
@2centswanted113 Ichigo's fights are just amazing. And on the haters, I usually ignore haters to the point of forgetting they exist, which is probably why I feel like it's the first time I've heard of them.
Anyone who actually thinks Ichigo doesn’t have technique just is not watching or paying attention to the show. If he was just a slugger he would’ve lost every single fight in the soul society, even Ikkaku would’ve beat him easily.
There are so many comments saying that. And prove they either didn't watch/read Bleach or the video. Like ppl saying Ichigo only fights on instinct. That's an entire subplot of the Arrancar arc that Ichigo doesn't fight instinctually enough.
see i knew that comment about ichigo not being a swordsman was bs but you going in depth and fully explaining not just the text and what we see happening during the battles but the actual real life facts to prove that he knows exactly what he's doing sent it for me
This video is perfect i found a shirt that had him at a C tier in swordsmanship and people in the comment section are really saying he doesn’t have any training or feats with his main weapon a damn “sword “ lmao like what ???
I think people really underestimate how insanely hard fighting with ichigo's constant release sword in soul society arc would actually be, trying to fight with that thing would require ridiculous technique
Interestingly enough, in episode 313 (admittedly a filler episode) Renji and Ichigo have a sparring match without Zanpakutō, which Renji wins due to having more experience, according to Ikkaku.
Ichigo WAS just a strong guy with a big sword at the start of the series. But eventually, you can notice how much skill he must have since he now uses a two-sword style with his new Zanpakuto, which is much harder to master than a single sword.
Ichigo, and most of bleach's characters, fall into a gray category. All of them have a base level of swordsmanship that is relevant to japanese culture as displayed by samurai. However, Ichigo blankly as a swordsman isnt particularly special. The saying "he's a man with a sword", while used in a condescensing manner most of the time, is somewhat true. BUT, this isn't because Ichigo is a poor swordsman. It is because of Bleach's power system. Zanpakuto are sealed as katanas, hence the basic level of swordmanship required by every character. There are standouts who are better than others in swordplay. Yamamoto, Shunsei, Unohana, Ukitake, Byakuya, Aizen, and even Toshiro. However, its hard to measure how skilled they are in plain swordplay because their skill set changes drastically upon including the power system. Personally i would put Ichigo in B tier in a list. He's an adept in most categories, specializing mostly in Kendo and other 2 handed stances. Yes, he often wields his shikai/bankai with one hands for general swings, but he's fairly limited in how he approaches combat. Brute force, rather than meticulous skill. He's not analysing every detail to be the most efficient and that makes for a poorer swordsman. Urahara and Aizen are much more analytic, but their abilities taken into account changes they fight. Urahara and Unohana are, in my opinion, the most skilled of he verse. Now, Ichigo would definitely be above Demon Slayer level combat, but i feel like he'd lose in a battle of swordplay against other characters like Kenshin, Saber, and even probably light novel Kirito (people can shit on SAO, but Kirito is a master swordsman, regardless)
So Ichigo analyzing Ikkaku, Ulquiorra, Renji, Ginjo and others while fighting and countering didn't convince you that he does analyze his fights. Ichigo has pulled off finesse moves against more experienced swordsman I even pointed out 2 in the video. I agree with some of your points but others are clearly shown in the manga and anime. Like the one handed swing thing. I also put in my pinned comment that Kenshin and Saber would win in pure swordsman ship
@@2centswanted113 He does analyse, but oftentimes he doesn't have the pure skill to use that effectively. He was outclassed by Aizen, Gin, and Ulquiorra (all who were stronger than him by large margins; though Gin is debatable). Ichigo's feats are hard to break down if you take away the show's power system. Ichigo's false bankai is mostly a speed boost. It takes all his reiatsu and compresses it into his blade. Obviously being able to slash away all of Senbonsakura Kageyoshi's blades is impressive, it is a Speed Feat, only because if his bankai WAS NOT a speed multiplier, regardless of his level swordplay, he wouldn't have the dexterity to do it. His best showcase of swordsmanship actually comes from his training and final fight with Ginjo, which you showed. He understands parrys, reposts, lunges, and maneuverability, but all of those things are enhanced by his Bankai's speed boost. Ichigo is a decent swordsman in his verse. Especially with his True Zanpakuto, learning how to fight with them instinctively in very little time. It's when you take away his powers and simply hand him a sword, that the cracks start to show. I never said he was a bad swordsman. B tier is middle of the road. Not great, not bad. For a show about swords with super powers, id say it's a fair spot to land. I didn't mean he never analyses in combat, he's always commenting on his opponents moves and tries to react to them, as shown in his fights with Ikkaku, Kenpachi, and Byakuya, but after that, and White's Instinct Speech, he starts fighting more aggressively, leaving the more tactical approaches behind. Funnily enough, when Ichigo fully hollowfies, we see white using distraction and different methods of combat in ways Ichigo simply wasn't. However I understand White is the Zanpakuto, so of course he's going to use the weapon better because Ichigo didn't understand his true self yet. I love bleach and I'll gladly go back and forth with you, friendly, not belittling. I enjoy back and forths because it gives me the opportunity to learn and think about things differently depending on new information.
My biggest critique about Ichigo's fighting style is that he fights way too much like a swordsman. Compared to his hollow who spins the sword around like a flail. The hollow had a more diverse and creative way of fighting compared to Ichigo. By channeling spiritual energy through the bandages of the sword the hollow was basically swinging a chain around with a bomb tied to the end of it.
I don't know Bleach, but I do know One Piece so I very much understand this problem. "But he fights with a sword!" "But the other guy is supposed to be stronger!" "But muh secondary power system!" "BUT PORTRAYAL!"
Ichigo is a skilled Warrior, but his not a traditional swordsman. He himself admitted that he never bothered to learn the techniques Urahara was using but rather uses his own improvised fighting style. He basically fights on intuition. Is he super skilled? Definitely; however he isnt a "swordsman" in a traditional sense, but he is definitely a swordsman in the sense that he is extremely skilled, intuitive, disciplined, etc.
For this video I thought you were going to bring up actual swordsman techniques/ fighting styles and not just what we can see from the manga and anime and draw comparisons to actual swordsman. That's where this criticism of, "Ichigo isn't a swordsman" usually stems from. According to Chapt GPT Copilot so take this with a grain of salt; Ichigo does do some keno techniques so yes Ichigo is a swordsman then. I am dropping a dislike because the fact of the matter is you're focusing on the wrong part of the argument, no one is denying that he's good at winning fights but is he an actual sword fighter. Is he a good swordsman? Well no, what kind of fool does powerful strikes that leave yourself open? Don't get me wrong it looks cool in the anime but as an actual swordsman he's not fighting smart in that kind of instance. edit: 4:47 that's cool and flashy but again an actual swordsman wouldn't do something so risky and foolish; it looks cool for an anime don't get me wrong, but it's too risky because it leaves you open for a counter balance, you're hoping your opponent's blade is fragile and is overall impractical. If he was actual swordsman skills then whoever told him to copy a flashy anime swordsman technique is a fool. No one is the comment section is pointing these issues out with Ichigo's swordsman techniques??? They're just blindly accepting the info you fed them.
The video you are looking for was the previous video which was recommended to watch first. No the criticism of where Ichigos swordsmanship is called into question based on "if he fights like IRL person x" because no animanga sword character does unless directly inspired like Shunsui is with Miyamoto Musashi. Thusly Ichigo doesn't need to use a specific sword style in order to be a good Swordsman. If Ichigo is capable of determining the advantages and disadvantages between his weapon and his opponents and literally end them with precision then that's all he needs. Opening with a power strike isn't foolish, it's a measuring stick as I explained in the video to which Ichigo uses as a read to counter his opponents next attack. I broke that down for 2 separate fights Ikkaku and Ginjo.
Which one? 😂. All 3 are pretty good and I did cover their first fight. But seriously I didn't want to cover every sword fight because I'm going to be doing 1 on his battle with Grimmjow and if I examined every Ichigo sword fight this video might be 60 minutes long.
@@2centswanted113 true, but all three fights with ichigo vs Ywach was pretty good, the first one though is arguably the best since its animated. Cant wait for the rest of the TYBW arc.
@@Thunor93 wait which 3? 1) Was during Ichigo's Bankai training in Soul society arc 2) was at the start of the blood war 3)Is the final battle. Unless your also counting that brief fight infront of the soul king?
The reason I assume it's a nodachi is that Minazuki is drawn with a more pronounced curve so I thought that was the Tachi but your right in some art works Tensa Zangetsu has a pretty curve
Some people don’t realize just how invested Kubo is into his characters, fights and story. He shows more than tells, and the amount of illiteracy is telling😭. People are used to flashy anime that don’t accurately replicate skill, so when Ichigo doesn’t outright monologue his skill, special move name, description of move and the doom of his opponent, swordsmanship is not recognized.
The entire point of ichigo is to be an Jack of all traits main characther. Byakuya at first was not that impressed by ichigo bankai form he could clearly tell that it was incomplete. then suddenly ichigo gets a powerboost from his hollow side which makes him able to keep up with byakuya which even shocks him.
If only Ichigo had the technique and swordskill of Unohana tho. That'd be crazy Also the way I see it, Ichigo has more talent than proper technique. He's kinda like Roy Jones in a way
Fortunately she is the peak of sword skill in Bleach so no one actually is in her level (except Kenny). I agree with that comparison until TLA. Ichigo's approach to swordfighting and his knowledge of combat evolved. Distance makes the heart grow fonder as they say.
Ichigo relied mainly on his speed when it came to sword fighting which despite his lack of swordsmanship he was able to close the gap compared to others who are masters at it.
@@2centswanted113 I had a feeling it would be. I remember bleach way back. I know Ichigo has gotten way stronger in strength, riatsu, speed, and I’m not sure if he got sword training for anyone else I’m pretty sure no. But in early on series like the battle he had with Byakuya Ichigo out speed his and always able to cut his shikai attack.
they clearly haven't watched or read Bleach if they saying that. no, like; genuinely. anyone saying that is just being an intentionally inflammatory troll, talking out their ass. there's almost no point in responding to such accusations. aside from telling them "go watch or read it". other than that? good video!! i personally found the order weird. i would've done Ikkaku, then Byakuya, then Ginjo. but hey, that's just me. another thing worth mentioning is that he only used Getsuga Tensho once, iirc, against Byakuya, in Shikai. which destroys the "Getsuga spammer" or "Getsuga merchant" “argument”. in Bankai, in the anime, i seem to recall him using a Getsuga. before White took over. it was brief, blink and you miss it. and it wasn't black either.
I won’t say he’s not a swordsman, but sword skill absolutely becomes less of a viable option in later seasons. Mainly because he’s being put again literal gods way above his skill level, and really only gets the jump when he gets some kinda power up. Like take aizen, no sword skill can ever beat him and that’s been a proven fact countless times, eventually when ichigo hits dangai he’s so strong he doesn’t even really have to use any sword techniques, he can literally afford just to grab aizen’s sword without risk of being cut cause he’s just that OP in dangai. In more balanced fights, he’ll absolutely implement proper fighting techniques, but when it comes to extremely OP characters, it’s more optimal for him just to power up and getsuga. That’s how I think about it.
all i know is, the same people who say that shit about ichigo prolly dickride zoro for doing his famous "dash across the battlefield one and done" in like 90% of his fights as godlike swordsmanship
People forget how ichigo, naruto and luffys are all fighting people with far greater combat experience than them and they are able to ajust and even later in thier fights go blow for blow with these characters.
Didn't he learn kendo as a kid with tatsuki, or was it Judo. Well he's not unfamiliar with proper martial arts. He isn't just a street fighter with no basics.
It was Karate. I guess I shouldnt have cut that part of the video out. Ichigo was taught Karate by Tatsuki. Taught Hakuda by Isshin. And learned to fight multiple armed opponents without a weapon by fighting local gangs. Ichigo in hands is legit
This is just one of multiple fruitless and baseless claims people make to undermine the credibility of the series. Because they refuse to acknowledge why it’s one of big three, and thereby make a fool of themselves due to their arrogance.
Ikkaku is definitely way older he's fought Kenpachi before both became shinigami and Kenpachi is over 1000 years old he also one of the most experienced and has trained even Renji and maybe other Shinigami especially from squad 11 I'd say Ikkaku is decently older than Byakuya he should've been an adult already when Byakuya was just a teen
Exactly. So we know that Zaraki has only been Kenpachi for at the most 99 years. Kiganjo was Kenpachi during Turn back the pendulum which was 110-100 years before the story of Bleach. When Zaraki faced Kiganjo less than 100 years ago he had Yachiru with him and we also know that Yachiru was present for the Zaraki Ikkaku duel. So they fought at the very least 100 years ago. So anyone pretending they don't have that experience doesn't know bleach.
Last i checked a couple things of note One pappa kurasaki basically trained Ichigo with attacking him randomly getting his reaction skill game up Aside from that cause i cant remember where it was stated Ichigo had hand to hand combat training i think it was in one of the early school episodes Anyway Despite learning the bare basics, kisuke essential forced Ichigo in his training to adapt a kinda killing intent as well as a more survival style of combat like this isnt your hads dude you make a single mistake that could be it for you Regardless i start dying when i see polls on twitter like whos the better swordsman between Zoro and Ichigo. I bust into tears like dude its stated by azien to be a captain you need multiple years of training to master certain forms of combat before your a captain and these dudes are stupid old ichigo is basically not only able to tag n keep up with captain level fighters and at times is doing it with one hand which is relatively a nerf for soul reapers its wild how downplayed Ichigo currently is in fandoms
Bleach doesn't have much in the way of legitimate swordplay pound for pound, cause no shit supernatural critters casually moving lightspeed and fucking on each other with long range, basically energy, attacks but Kubo did try to include elements of swordsmanship where it made sense, IE near peer opponents, to keep it from being just "ha ha I spam ability at you". Like even in the Uliq vs Ichigo fight when Uliq is base and Ichigo masked or Ichigo hollowified and Uliq segunda etapa you see elements of swordplay come into it (though for the latter more hollow ichigo roasting Uliq indirectly by showing he isn't even trying that much)
Maybe canonically Ichigo is skilled at swordplay, but Kubo does not know enough about swordplay to draw/write it properly, which is why the swings are always so stupidly wide and there's no binding and winding. Characters will literally jam their swords against each other and just keep pushing linearly like morons.
@@2centswanted113 In one of your examples Ichigo literally binds Byakuya's blade and both of them hold it, doing nothing but pushing directly against each other for ten full seconds while they talk.
I actually love this clash between tham that happens at 4:19 - 4:32 ruclips.net/video/RMNj2LB99iY/видео.htmlsi=o78_vF6UUOKHfTnU Im sorry its an amv but its the only way i could find hhat scene uncut
If you are wondering where I think Ichigo stacks up against other Swordsman from other series I think Ichigo does fairly well. I believe swordsmen like Zoro, Inuyasha, Kirito, Mihawk, etc. don't show real technique and get bodied pretty easily.
I think certain swordsman have a stylistic advantage over Ichigo like Saber (Adaptable), Kenshin(Tricksy), and Mugen(Similar style to Grimmjow).
Also if you would like to see the "Bleach has no Swordsman" video:
ruclips.net/video/59vhVE9wJXU/видео.htmlsi=r8tG7uuOXp2lY4nb
Id say kirito is way better then you think he is because he had actual kendo training since he was young and won competition on top of him adapting very quickly in a fight
in terms of pure swordsmanship? yeah those guys are embarrassing ichigo outside of that you can continue to lick bleach pages.
@@halojeff15 ah yes the guy who puts a sword in his mouth and spins like a helicopter is a TRUE example of sword art. Or a guy who carries around a butter knife and can deflect a katana, yes the realism bleeds from the page. Or Inuyasha who has, and I counted 2 attacks vertical cut and horizontal cut.
@@2centswanted113 yea a guy who wears a black cloak and screams his attacks is better than everyone because he looks cooler , i can say dumb shit too bro , zoro using 3 swords at once is already a statement to his swordsmanship and mihawk being so good with any blade is already better than ichigo who we never seen use other weapons besides his zanpakuto and inyusha is a swordsman as well , kirito has kendo . ichigo swordsmanship isn't up to par dawg yall can wank him in a corner like diddy but that doesn't make it true.
@@halojeff15 wait what? Hold on did you just compare Ichigo's outfit and Super powers to the fact that Zoro holds a sword in his teeth as a knock against Ichigo's sword skill. Please point out to me where Zoro actually uses a sword technique? Or changes his style to match his opponent. Recognizing weapon advantage. You know anything I pointed out in the video. But no, apparently fighting 3 katanas with a butter knife and holding a katana in your teeth is the exact same as wearing traditional Japanese clothing (funny how you make fun of a culture that you so diligently watch) and firing a wave of energy from his sword.
🤣🤣🤣 one of us actually has experience and knows what they are talking about the other literally has no clue. Make a real point or don't respond cuz this is a waste of time
To be clear, Ichigo was officially trained in Martial Arts for the longest time. Even after he quit, Ishin made sure he could defend himself from any surprise attack by attacking him all the time, even in his sleep. The only amount of official sword training he ever got was from Urahara and Old Man Zangetsu. With that and his years of prior Martial Arts training, and Ishin constantly attacking him, he has the reflexes and knowledge to fight, he just has to extend it out with the extra length of the sword. As far as I know, it's far easier to teach someone how to use a sword if they're already trained in Martial Arts then it is to teach someone with no experience at all.
So this video is supposed to be 11 minutes long but I cut out the other martial stuff and decided to use it in another video. But pretty much ya, a lot of my base martial arts helped me pick up certain things with a sword but also hurt me in other areas. Some thing's are just not intuitive.
@@2centswanted113 I'd imagine edge alignment would be one of those things but seeing as I'm not trained in any sense of the word I don't know. Could you elaborate on where it hurt? I've never actually heard that before.
@@tekiyuyami6406 yes! You hit it on the head. See as a classically trained boxer I'm taught to rotate my wrist and punch through my target. So turning my wrist to vy for position or striking through my opponents guard was easy but making sure my edge alignment is correct when also making those cuts and such wasn't as intuitive, at least for me.
I've never realised that Isshin teaches Ichigo to fight with his surprise attack at home.
Ishin also has Ichigo do kendo with his best friend from a young age before his mother died
Ichigo is just clean w the sword. And the fact he dunked on Ikaku with an overgrown kitchen knife makes it even better.
🤣🤣🤣 over grown kitchen knife. Facts
@@2centswanted113this video is good keep up the good content I don't think Ichigo really have any
@@2centswanted113and just because we like bleach ain't nothing wrong with here in the criticism it's the only way to help the show get better
@@2centswanted113and just because we like bleach ain't nothing wrong with here in the criticism it's the only way to help the show get better good content though
@@cjcj4861tf you on about
Fun Fact: The art of fighting with a Zanpakuto actually has a name to it in Bleach. It’s Called Zanjutsu, and is considered shameful for any Soul Reaper not to learn.
Yes and no. Zanjutsu is the Zanpakutou wielding skill, which consists of their Zanpakutou innate abillities and unleashed forms. Byakuya using his sakura petals is a form of Zanjutsu, but it would not be considered sword-wielding untill he creates a katana to wield for himself. Other example would be Renji and his original giant snake hip Bankai, which forces Renji to completely change his fighting style compared to katana/shikai. Zanjutsu is Zanpakutou prowess in every aspect and form individual for each Shinigami.
@@Elariesel This is absolutely false my brother.
Zanjutsu was used before Zanpakutou ever even existed.
A video he made on Bleach earlier on, he basically said that Zanjutsu is CQC for swordsmanship.
Squad 12 and 4 don't weld swords.
@@boredom120 Correct, but every soul reaper has a sword, some just don't use them. Example: Yoruichi. She is a mostly Taijutsu/Hakuda user, but does have a Zanpakuto.
the only reason people don't think Ichigo can't use a sword is because Bleach doesn't usually show flashy swordplay. And they(the people who seemingly know so much about swordplay) all know that flashy move set is what differentiates a swordsman from a baseball bat user.
The problem is Bleach is excellent in so many areas that it gets overshadowed. Kubo brings to bear a plethora of weapons and styles that aren't from Japan like Ginjo's great sword. Ginjo actually weilds it like a great sword instead of other series where people swing great swords like baseball bats.
@@2centswanted113The anime kinda fixed that with Ichigo vs the Bambis where we see him effectively use dual zanpakutos like how you would dual wield normal blades, and this was with NO experience on dual wielding.
@@2centswanted113 did you just compliment the full bring arc. i thought that was a taboo thing to do.
@@TheBronf on Reddit maybe 🤔
You definitely get to see it in his extended fights like Grimmjow and Ginjo
Reminds me of the Shanks vs Mihawk debate
"Ichigo isn't a swordman, he's a Reishiman"
shanks the hakiman💀
that debate makes no sense, but it's just Mihawk fans being themselves.
@@unohana-retsu it's a joke.
@@user-piku i know, but you know OP fans have agenda's, so yeah, most may not be joking about it.
@@unohana-retsu Yeah it makes no sense. Obviously, as the World's Strongest Swordsman, Mihawk is stronger than Shanks, a swordsman.
Ichigo being a very talented martial artist is always something i easily forget
Yes I cut out an extra 3 minutes of Ichigo's martial prowess at the end. I guess I'm saving it for another video. Ichigo is a poor man's Kenpachi when it comes to the desire to fight and he is good at it. One thing I've always seen is people never give Ichigo credit for usually being in a 1v5+ or 2v12 fights. Ichigo almost never is in a fair fight
Being taught special soul reaper hand-to-hand techniques by his dad without his knowledge is crazy Isshin did well
Another early impressive showing of his skill was when he very quickly and fluidly incapacitated the Lieutenants using the dull areas of his blade mixed with melee while moving to rescue Rukia. He may have been taught lethal skills from an ex assassin in Kisuke but Ichigo knows when to get deadly and when not to. And managing that using a blade is not as easy as it seems.
Funfact: these melee attacks Ichigo uses are not normal punches or kicks they are special soul reaper fighting techniques each with a name passed down and taught by his dad
He doesn't use his blade at all in the manga. Go read Chapter 152. He stabs Zangetsu in the ground and punches all of them. (Breaks Omaeda's Shikai, uppercuts Choujirou, center-strikes Isane.) Not using your sword to defeat sword users is not swordsmanship, and no one cares what the anime has him doing.
@@DuxSupremus This was a display of Hakuda taught to Ichigo by his father rather then him using the Zanjutsu taught by Urahara which is later used in his fight with Byakuya they are two of the four basic fighting styles of the Shinigami both of which Ichigo is a master of.
@@senpaistreams502 Yeah, that doesn't change the fact that 1. Hakuda is not Zanjutsu, 2. Ichigo doesn't actually use Zanjutsu. Ichigo uses Getsuga Tenshou, his Shikai special ability which is what Kisuke was trying to teach him to unlock. Ichigo also extensively uses Blut Vene and Blut Arterie against Renji (both in Karakura and Soul Society), Kenpachi, Byakuya, and even Aizen when Aizen "miscalculates" in cutting him in half. Blut is not Zanjutsu.
Kisuke didn't teach Ichigo jack except how to adapt his instinctual and experiential fighting style to "serious" Shinigami duels instead of street fighting punks. Ichigo doesn't suddenly bust out Kidou or any named Zanjutsu moves or Hakuda or anything else. He never names an attack besides Getsuga Tenshou. It's because he doesn't formally know any other attacks. Because he wasn't trained. Because that wasn't the focus of Kisuke's training.
The best you can say is Ichigo "instinctively" knows Hakuda from Isshin, but he still never names an attack, and all proper Hakuda attacks are named. Ichigo has no formal education in it. He doesn't know Zanjutsu, Kidou, or Hohou. He doesn't even use Shunpo, for godsakes, he usually uses Sonido. Kisuke only taught him killer instinct. He doesn't know any other Shinigami moves formally.
@@DuxSupremus Yes both Ichigo's Hakuda and Zanjutsu moves have names some listed on the wiki they are not spelled out and when one character used a Zanjutsu technique and bragged about it he got one shot by chad showing how stupid it is boasting about a fucking sword swing all shinigami are formally taught that's why they don't scream them never seen kenpachi yell "Ryōdan" like a moron. Ichigo was taught proper Zanjutsu from both Urahara as noted by Ikakku and also White/Zangetsu as all spirits are well versed in Zanjutsu also to add to the list of things your wrong about Ichigo has never used Sonido out of "vasto lorde" form we can tell by the sound difference and Ulquiorra making a big fuss over it also saying the character with a speed power up can't use Hohou is beyond idiotic it's also stated multiple times a good percent of a shinigami's potential comes from their family and Ichigo is part of one of the great clans and has great mastery over Zankensoki other then kido use please *THINK*.
The fact that people dare to say that somebody that was personally taught swordplay by Urahara isn't a swordsman. Like bro
The Bleach hate is wild. To say Ichigo is an inferior swordsman to other people is crazy
@@2centswanted113So many ppl love to shit on Bleach And then you find out that they like dragonball... Like, brother 💀
@@usernameig975both of them get insane hate for no reason.
@@KurosakiNexus yea my point being tho that most ppl ive ever heard bash bleach complained about length. That the story Is longer than it needs to be. My friend holds this opinion yet He likes one piece.
@@usernameig975 I personally don’t like one piece, and don’t know why people enjoy a mid ass story stretched to infinite. I only really like Bleach and Db from the 4 popular shounen.
Giving a name to all your sword swings dont make you a swords man
Preach!
But being taught by several masters and a several hundred year old sword master does
@@Jay-drose he's talking about Demon Slayer
@@2centswanted113 makes sense but I think Uzui could be considered a swordsman
@@Jay-drose And considering that Ichigo learns from all his fights. 👍
a quick thing to note is that its a misconception that ichigo was faster than Byakuya, he underestimated him and got caught off guard twice, especially losing sight of him the first time, what he was speed blitzing was actually his Senbonzakura as Byakuya was able to keep up with him until he slowed down, but could keep track of him the entire time.
it shows as well that the second Ichigo slowed down too much he was struggling to keep up as with Byakuya only Senbonzakura was
I don't disagree. I will say Ichigo was fast enough to press Byakuya, so much so he felt the need to increase his killing power because he was able to get to Byakuyas flank and wound him after deflecting all of the petals directed by Byakuya. It was at that point Ichigo's body couldn't keep up
@@2centswanted113 100% agree somewhere around that time he began slowing down till it became significant
Saying ichigo isn't a good swordsman is basically saying yhwach and kisuke aren't
They taught him
And then ichigo later goes sword for sword,no powers what so ever, against yhwach
Well that's what people are saying even after watching the video
Any body saying Ichigo aint a swordsman just has mist for brains
🤣🤣🤣 never heard that on before. I agree
No because his swordsman techniques are only what you'd do if you were an anime character, the techniques he performs are flashy and impractical. Actual swordsman techniques aren't THIS flashy and are practical.
@@soundrogue4472you again are wrong. Some are undeniably dead clean and simple. For expample the riposte thrust, that’s classic fencing shit. Usually done with a straighter sword but it can be done using a katana, just requires a little angling. Also, if it’s something that would actually be practical if you were really fast and strong, even if he only does it because he is it’s STILL skilled. If a master swordsman can suddenly do something else and it’s practical they’ll do it. If anything that shows he’s even more skilled because he adapted from being a normal dude to doing things he couldn’t before as he gains power. Not only are you wrong, the point you brought up goes against your own opinion.
@@blacksabbath5300 what scene/ fights can I look up on youtube where he is doing these fencing techinques?
I can't find anyone online mention this expect you unless google's search engine is being broken. I heard the AI copolit bring up the fencing techinques.
Besides this; how effective is it to use a fighting style not fit for a big ass weapon or even a katana to use fencing style of combat?
You wouldn't fight with a short sword the same way you'd fight with a katana because it wouldn't be as effective.
@adrielbadillo1942 it's not just about strength.
The same people will say Ichigo was "handed" his power ups. Swear
They consistently have the worst takes. I'm pretty sure that's a skill
Again to point this out.
No because his swordsman techniques are only what you'd do if you were an anime character, the techniques he performs are flashy and impractical. Actual swordsman techniques aren't THIS flashy and are practical.
@@soundrogue4472 That goes for literally 99% of anime even for hand to hand combat.
@@UnifiedEntityI agree; that said no one goes around and says, "so and so character is a skilled swordsman" because that'd be silly, expect One Piece fans with Zoro.
Ichigo is a good fighter; just a bad swordsman.
@@soundrogue4472welcome to anime bro💀😭
7:06
i find it interesting in retrospect Byakuya directly thrusts the blade at ichigo's face in a way
he couldnt see the side of the blade. This is likely due to the face the human eye has a difficulty
registering movement and velocity of things that move in a straight line directly toward it like a boxer throwing a straight.
It almost in its self indicates how thoughtful and potentially knowledgeable Byakuya is as a swordsman to react with this
when he catches Ichigo slipping.
Anime fans needs a breakdown of every movement in order for them to classify it as technical/skillful/strategic otherwise will dismiss it for random movement or a basic punch/sword slash.
You put it best with the Giyu Dead calm statement. It has a name, a breakdown of what it does vs ichigo who just does it
They really do. I find it disappointing honestly. Not that everyone should know everything but if your going to have an opinion make sure it's your own and not some brain dead take from 2005
Again I have to point this out.
No because his swordsman techniques are only what you'd do if you were an anime character, the techniques he performs are flashy and impractical. Actual swordsman techniques aren't THIS flashy and are practical.
@@soundrogue4472 this take doesn't make sense within fantasy settings. Any character that can perform supernatural feats can create new ways to perform techniques. But this comment contradicts your criticism from the other thread, Ichigo literally works from the bind in his fight against Ginjo and uses an efficient thrust to win the fight.
Really great analyzing of Ichigos skills. Actually crazy how many people just read on Surface lvl and claim he doesn't have top tier lvl swordsmanship.
Amazing video, bro.
Subscibed because of this
Thank you brother 🙏🏽 I am not worthy. If you have time check out the swordsmanship video I think you'll like it if you liked this
@2centswanted113 Don't put yourself down. Like i said, great analysis. I hope this video gets way more views because it deserves it.
Thanks for the recommendation. I will def check out more videos. Keep up the good work
One thing that massively changes the way that Ichigo vs Byakuya went down is not only is Byakuya more experienced and stronger than Ichigo, Ichigo had only just unlocked his Bankai not even a day before they fought and that was his first time ever using it. He had to learn what Byakuya could do and react to it along with figuring out the limits of his Bankai and relearn how to fight with it because it was a completely different sword for him.
Ichigo at the end of tybw became a nice swordsman
And he already had great martial arts skills even before soul society arc
Ichigo showing what he can do with 2 swords is impressive. To this day Ichigo's display against Grimmjow was definitely my favorite as far as his sword play. It wasn't refined, it was improvisational and wild
@@2centswanted113 and his hand to hand combat is Also gas is first arc and soul society arc 🤌
@@yashmehta4087 people sleep on Ichigo's skill especially how they discount Ichigo is normally fighting at a disadvantage. Ichigo fights gangs solo. Hell do it unarmed while they have clubs, tasers, knuckles, rocks, chains, etc.
@@2centswanted113 plus dude called ambulance before beating the shit out of multiple delinquents 🗿
@@yashmehta4087i still chuckle at the ambulance part.
Ichigo is savage, plus ichigo even before he got his true zangetsu was skilled with a sword, guy was keeping up with Ywach and even managed to injure ywachs arm, something even old man yamamoto failed to do.
Most people who talk crap about ichigo never even finished the soul society arc.
The thing honestly comes down to the flashyness of the whole verse. The reality is that a large handful of the verse is already decently skilled in swordsmenship that it then shifts to things like stats or abilities. Lets say there was only a small portion of charcters that were at the top in swordsmanship, great "swordsmanship" would be a lot easier for the reader to see.
This is true. Good point. I think it's more about needing recognition. Especially when you run across death battles or "give me your anime cold take" and it's "Man Bleach is just all flashy explosions and no skill, Naruto is better with a sword than Ichigo" type stuff that bothers me
Exactly! If this was Rurouni Kenshin, then it would be a discussion of sword skill instead of whatever people say Bleach is.
@@tekiyuyami6406 I think people genuinely forget that the characters in bleach are death gods. The skill ceiling has been so high out the gate that there is no need to really point out ones "sword skill" unless it's levels beyond the bare minimum.
It's the same misconceptions people have with DBZ. At a certain point, it's not so much on the technique of the martial arts but utilization of it along with energy use, movement and reading the opponent and hopefully not outclassed in stats and ability. Goku in Z should be a Master at martial arts without wasted movement as opposed to a child where he clearly has to learn the subtly in fighting.
i’ve never seen someone actually go out of their way to defend ichigo before, it was nice.
love the video too! have a subscribe ❤
ichigo is literally all about swordsmanship with little getsuga tensho thrown into mix
This....IDK why people don't get this. I'm doing a "Getsuga Tenshou spam" debunk video
It genuinely shocks me how many people believe this claim just because he is shown being a swordsman in a way that isnt similar to the norm (zoro or kenshin or saber) doesnt mean he isn't a swordsman ichigo has his own style of fighting that grows and gets better with each encounter
Its why yhwach was such a strong opponent for ichigo to overcome yhwach's almighty quite literally counters ichigo's whole style of combat.
Zoro isn't a swordsman but Kenshin and Saber are legit. Ichigo is also in that legit category. These characters will use real technique or stances or philosophies and get no credit. But because Zoro puts a sword in his mouth people freak out
People who say Ichigo isn't a swordsman be the same people who say Goku isn't a martial artist. Just ignore them and they'll go away eventually.
Considering ichigo is facing off against characters who have had over a hundred years experience in swordplay and battle tactics etc, he's probably considered the most skilled in swordsmanship in the human world.
I think it's disingenuous to say otherwise
You mean to tell me an anime ghost/demon/stand-user/church boy/Jesus-2 doesn't ALWAYS use accurate Historical Martial Arts?
You can't tell but I'm shocked.
I love hearing about Ichigo and his skills. Makes me appreciate Kubo more.
Also, since you mentioned Kirito in the pinned comment, I wonder how would he fair against Ichigo if they both would be at the same level of speed. Since Kirito is PRETTY DAMN SLOW for Shinigami standards, but I think his dual blade skill is a force to be reckoned with regardless.
Another Banger 🔥 love the breakdown so precise and easy to understand
Really liked this video, I never thought Itchigo was a bad swordsman but I never had good arguments for why he was actually highly skilled. The turning the sword moment against Ginjo is so subtle and cool that I didn't notice how crazy precise it was. I always just thought that was Itchigo overpowering him, not out-skilling him
Alot of what Kubo does is subtle. I'm just glad my video entertained and could help 🙏🏽.
The thing about Ichigo that people will ignore or miss is that Ichigo is never starting a fight with the intent to kill just disable. The only 2 people that ever happened with was Yhwach and Ginjo technically Tsukishima as well but that was rage not ice cold murder.
One thing i noticed about Ichigo's True Bankai is how the chain is connected from the top and bottom. Kinda like a Bow's String.
The issue is mainly because the manga shows action with a lot of big decisive sweeps that cut through page and look really powerful, but it doesn’t leave a lot for the anime to work with most of the time. Lore wise yeah he’s supposed to be a great swordsman, but if you just watch the anime there isn’t a whole lot of times where it’s backed up by much other than exposition. At least comparatively to other sword fight anime
Theres a video attached to this comment section.
Put it this way Ichigo has actual skill he just doesn't use it as often as he should which is Kubo's fault tbh.
When is it you think he's doesn't use it?
@@2centswanted113 later on down in the story Kubo just doesn't portray Ichigo's skill as well as he did in the Ss and Arrancar arc
@pacmiller7564
Well he is Dual wielding Swords that are different in Size and Shape.
And the Bambi figth was a decent showing of that.
Bro is very skilled it's just that others are skilled as well. Not to mention that bro was getting used to his new blade
@@RandomGuy-ci9nt I agree
Hey bro, I absolutely respect you for making this video some anime fans never wanna give respect but want it so back
I appreciate that, Im just happy you enjoyed the video. 🙏🏽
Haha 6:27 JOHNNY YOUNG BOSCH 😂😂great job
Ichigo is a streetfighter, he fights purely by instinct and overwhelming his opponent with superior speed and power. The moment an opponent has more speed or power, he loses.
This the most "I didn't watch the video or topic" comment I've ever seen.
@@2centswanted113 I mean you have zero points throughout the entire video. He's never trained swordplay ever in his life. All combat experience he ever received was reflex training from his own father ambushing him every day, and street fights with delinquents. He loses every single fight in the manga where he meets an opponent with greater power, and when he eventually wins, he does it by overpowering them through another cheat ability. He's an instinct fighter. You're trying to portray him as a swordsman, which by definition is someone who fights with extreme routine and discipline, that is NOT Ichigo. Ichigo is NEVER displayed to be this kind of character. He's reactionary, hot headed and often relies completely on his reflexes alone to defend and attack.
I'll do you one better even. KENPACHI isn't a swordsman. By his own admission, in fact, he only uses Kendo once in the entire series.
@@Mephil"He's never trained swordplay ever in his life." So did you miss the part where he was training with Urahara after getting his Soul Reaper powers? Pretty sure Urahara taught him the basics of zanjutsu, and then the rest of his fighting style is self taught. Also the literal definition of Swordsman is "a man who fights with a sword", which he very clearly does.
@@ecanoya He was being chased around and dodging attacks, further training his reactionary style. "Pretty sure Urahara taught him Zanjutsu" is your headcanon, they didn't have time to do any of that. All they did was rush to unlock his bankai, that was IT. They had NO TIME for anything else. My boy ichigo fights like Mugen, he's not a Jin.
An sure, if you define swordsman as a dude that is holding a sword, fine, he's a swordsman. But that is the most vapid definition I've ever heard. For me, I'd go with the definition of swordsmanship: "Swordsmanship or sword fighting refers to the skills and techniques used in combat and training with any type of sword."
If we go for your definition, than I am a swordsman. You're a swordsman. Everybody can be a fucking swordsman.
@@Mephil I was talking about the ten days he trained before going to Soul Society. He even says that Urahara was the one that taught him how to fight when Ikkaku asks "Who was your master?" His fighting style is reactionary, sure, but that just means he doesn't have any formal training in any specific style.
Mugen's swordsmanship is fairly improvisational too, like you said, so are you trying to claim that Mugen isn't a swordsman? Cause that'd just be silly.
People always overlook all the nuances in Bleach. The whole point of his training with Urahara was that he learned basic swordplay and got in ten days practice against Urahara.
Prior to that Ichigo does say he's just relying on instinct, but from the start of the soul society arc Ichigo knows what he's doing.
He doesn't improve his techniques much, he still spams the basics more than anything, but he's also smart enough to know he's spamming the basics and find ways to adapt using that.
Just most of the improvement he does have are subtle and not outright highlighted so people just go "it's a shonen so he must have just gotten a power up!"
Just saw your vid on a whim, and you got my subscription. This is fantastic reasoning, and answers some of my concerns about Bleach as well. Thanks!
99% of criticism Bleach gets comes from people who never read or watched the series. I am not saying it isn't above criticism and as a fan I know there is a lot that Bleach can be critiqued on but you hardly ever hear anything about actual flaws.
Ya the dark years of having to defend Bleach every other day was crazy and everything was just unfounded nonsense. "Kubo can't write" "Ichigo is a boring MC with no motivation" etc. I'm glad those days are receding
It’s not that they’ve never seen the series they’ve just only seen the 2004 anime and never read the manga or watched Tybw, if you read the manga you’ll know 2004 Bleach is not a faithful adaptation to the manga
Or they just parrot opinions like: "It all went downhill from soul society." And "The anime Is longer than it needs to be." The second one could have some credibility the first one is just flat out wrong.
@@Chillchildren9992004 bleach Is still bangin imo.
@@usernameig975 yo the "all down hill after SS" kills me! Damn now I'm itching to do a video on it
this video really makes me appreciate bleach more
@@Mohamad_Fikri I'm glad I can create some appreciation, thank you!
A lot of people seem to think that just because ichigo doesnt have a name for ever sword slash he does, hes not a swordsman
This video makes some good points , ichigo was taught all the etiquettes and teachings of a samurai who reaps the souls of humans and cleanses hollows, when going into battle against 100 year old experienced being ichigo was aware of how much he was outmatched but still mustered the courage to continue to fight as a inexperienced 16 year old substitute the first section of the show from the karakura arc to the aizen arc ichigo only had one year of experience and still did really good.
This was a deserved answer!!
Thank you! Ichigo is worthy of defense
He fights with a sword, he's a swordsman. He might not have the raw skill or ability with one that characters from other anime might possess, but he's still good enough to stand up to other swordsmen in his universe.
He definitely can contend with notable swordsman in other series but those high tiers like Saber from Fate or someone with a wild style like Mugen from Samurai Champloo would probably beat Ichigo if all things were fair.
Ichigo is a goddamn master swordsman, give my boy respect
Thanks for this people are always downplaying Ichigo’s swordsmanship
I know I'm late and this is the first time I've heard people say this about ichigo but, he is matching if not besting people who are called "Death Gods" and have had centuries of experience in combat, and he is a former martial artist high school student who has had only about a week of sword training. With said training being at least the basics, and a "keep learning as you go" way of fighting.
If anything this kid has to be on some kind of crack to pull this off every damn time, even before learning about his cracked heritage and potential.
The "Ichigo just spams Getsuga" crowd has existed in the Bleachdom and outside of it since Ichigo learned the move.
They ignore the actual times Kubo showed off how naturally good with a sword Ichigo is, and when Kubo gave an Zweihander to Ginjo and had Ginjo use it like how it's used IRL.... Chefs kiss
@2centswanted113 Ichigo's fights are just amazing. And on the haters, I usually ignore haters to the point of forgetting they exist, which is probably why I feel like it's the first time I've heard of them.
Anyone who actually thinks Ichigo doesn’t have technique just is not watching or paying attention to the show.
If he was just a slugger he would’ve lost every single fight in the soul society, even Ikkaku would’ve beat him easily.
There are so many comments saying that. And prove they either didn't watch/read Bleach or the video. Like ppl saying Ichigo only fights on instinct. That's an entire subplot of the Arrancar arc that Ichigo doesn't fight instinctually enough.
Love this amazing examples
see i knew that comment about ichigo not being a swordsman was bs but you going in depth and fully explaining not just the text and what we see happening during the battles but the actual real life facts to prove that he knows exactly what he's doing sent it for me
This video is perfect i found a shirt that had him at a C tier in swordsmanship and people in the comment section are really saying he doesn’t have any training or feats with his main weapon a damn “sword “ lmao like what ???
I think people really underestimate how insanely hard fighting with ichigo's constant release sword in soul society arc would actually be, trying to fight with that thing would require ridiculous technique
In his fight against Gin he frightens the former captain by how adept his perception in battle are. How more swordsman like can he get?
Ichigo is constantly praised by all the Captains he fights about his skill
Interestingly enough, in episode 313 (admittedly a filler episode) Renji and Ichigo have a sparring match without Zanpakutō, which Renji wins due to having more experience, according to Ikkaku.
First of all....sick pfp bro 👏🏽
Second, yes as a Renji hater I despise that moment
The panels are reading backwards and I’m lost
Huh?
Ichigo WAS just a strong guy with a big sword at the start of the series.
But eventually, you can notice how much skill he must have since he now uses a two-sword style with his new Zanpakuto, which is much harder to master than a single sword.
This man is my Career cluster teacher-
Ichigo, and most of bleach's characters, fall into a gray category. All of them have a base level of swordsmanship that is relevant to japanese culture as displayed by samurai. However, Ichigo blankly as a swordsman isnt particularly special. The saying "he's a man with a sword", while used in a condescensing manner most of the time, is somewhat true. BUT, this isn't because Ichigo is a poor swordsman. It is because of Bleach's power system. Zanpakuto are sealed as katanas, hence the basic level of swordmanship required by every character. There are standouts who are better than others in swordplay. Yamamoto, Shunsei, Unohana, Ukitake, Byakuya, Aizen, and even Toshiro. However, its hard to measure how skilled they are in plain swordplay because their skill set changes drastically upon including the power system.
Personally i would put Ichigo in B tier in a list. He's an adept in most categories, specializing mostly in Kendo and other 2 handed stances. Yes, he often wields his shikai/bankai with one hands for general swings, but he's fairly limited in how he approaches combat. Brute force, rather than meticulous skill. He's not analysing every detail to be the most efficient and that makes for a poorer swordsman. Urahara and Aizen are much more analytic, but their abilities taken into account changes they fight. Urahara and Unohana are, in my opinion, the most skilled of he verse.
Now, Ichigo would definitely be above Demon Slayer level combat, but i feel like he'd lose in a battle of swordplay against other characters like Kenshin, Saber, and even probably light novel Kirito (people can shit on SAO, but Kirito is a master swordsman, regardless)
So Ichigo analyzing Ikkaku, Ulquiorra, Renji, Ginjo and others while fighting and countering didn't convince you that he does analyze his fights.
Ichigo has pulled off finesse moves against more experienced swordsman I even pointed out 2 in the video. I agree with some of your points but others are clearly shown in the manga and anime. Like the one handed swing thing. I also put in my pinned comment that Kenshin and Saber would win in pure swordsman ship
@@2centswanted113 He does analyse, but oftentimes he doesn't have the pure skill to use that effectively. He was outclassed by Aizen, Gin, and Ulquiorra (all who were stronger than him by large margins; though Gin is debatable). Ichigo's feats are hard to break down if you take away the show's power system. Ichigo's false bankai is mostly a speed boost. It takes all his reiatsu and compresses it into his blade. Obviously being able to slash away all of Senbonsakura Kageyoshi's blades is impressive, it is a Speed Feat, only because if his bankai WAS NOT a speed multiplier, regardless of his level swordplay, he wouldn't have the dexterity to do it.
His best showcase of swordsmanship actually comes from his training and final fight with Ginjo, which you showed. He understands parrys, reposts, lunges, and maneuverability, but all of those things are enhanced by his Bankai's speed boost.
Ichigo is a decent swordsman in his verse. Especially with his True Zanpakuto, learning how to fight with them instinctively in very little time. It's when you take away his powers and simply hand him a sword, that the cracks start to show. I never said he was a bad swordsman. B tier is middle of the road. Not great, not bad. For a show about swords with super powers, id say it's a fair spot to land.
I didn't mean he never analyses in combat, he's always commenting on his opponents moves and tries to react to them, as shown in his fights with Ikkaku, Kenpachi, and Byakuya, but after that, and White's Instinct Speech, he starts fighting more aggressively, leaving the more tactical approaches behind. Funnily enough, when Ichigo fully hollowfies, we see white using distraction and different methods of combat in ways Ichigo simply wasn't. However I understand White is the Zanpakuto, so of course he's going to use the weapon better because Ichigo didn't understand his true self yet.
I love bleach and I'll gladly go back and forth with you, friendly, not belittling. I enjoy back and forths because it gives me the opportunity to learn and think about things differently depending on new information.
My biggest critique about Ichigo's fighting style is that he fights way too much like a swordsman. Compared to his hollow who spins the sword around like a flail. The hollow had a more diverse and creative way of fighting compared to Ichigo. By channeling spiritual energy through the bandages of the sword the hollow was basically swinging a chain around with a bomb tied to the end of it.
Ichigo adapts Whites techniques into his combat just doesn't copy it fully
On the other hand, Hollow Ichigo.
Is alright. Pretty wild for sure. His best showing was a filler arc
Great vid. Didn't know there was a discord
Thank you. Ya it's free and we just chat and chill
Well Duh, he's obviously a "maskman", even though his primary fighting style is with a sword.
- Signed, Red Haired Shanks fan.
I mean, even in the TYBW arc he shows that he's a very skilled swordsman. Even picking up dual wielding with ease when he never did that before.
It is scary how fast Ichigo picks up on it
immaculate
I fucking wish. I hope the editing wasn't too bad. It's been 3 months 😅
Ichigo not being a swordsman is the most oxymoron shit possible. He literally fights using a sword 🤣🤣🤣🤣
"But he uses Getsuga Tenshou and swings it like a bat". -Internet troll (2006)
@@2centswanted113 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I don't know Bleach, but I do know One Piece so I very much understand this problem. "But he fights with a sword!" "But the other guy is supposed to be stronger!" "But muh secondary power system!" "BUT PORTRAYAL!"
Ichigo is a skilled Warrior, but his not a traditional swordsman. He himself admitted that he never bothered to learn the techniques Urahara was using but rather uses his own improvised fighting style. He basically fights on intuition. Is he super skilled? Definitely; however he isnt a "swordsman" in a traditional sense, but he is definitely a swordsman in the sense that he is extremely skilled, intuitive, disciplined, etc.
For this video I thought you were going to bring up actual swordsman techniques/ fighting styles and not just what we can see from the manga and anime and draw comparisons to actual swordsman. That's where this criticism of, "Ichigo isn't a swordsman" usually stems from.
According to Chapt GPT Copilot so take this with a grain of salt; Ichigo does do some keno techniques so yes Ichigo is a swordsman then.
I am dropping a dislike because the fact of the matter is you're focusing on the wrong part of the argument, no one is denying that he's good at winning fights but is he an actual sword fighter. Is he a good swordsman? Well no, what kind of fool does powerful strikes that leave yourself open? Don't get me wrong it looks cool in the anime but as an actual swordsman he's not fighting smart in that kind of instance.
edit: 4:47 that's cool and flashy but again an actual swordsman wouldn't do something so risky and foolish; it looks cool for an anime don't get me wrong, but it's too risky because it leaves you open for a counter balance, you're hoping your opponent's blade is fragile and is overall impractical. If he was actual swordsman skills then whoever told him to copy a flashy anime swordsman technique is a fool.
No one is the comment section is pointing these issues out with Ichigo's swordsman techniques??? They're just blindly accepting the info you fed them.
The video you are looking for was the previous video which was recommended to watch first.
No the criticism of where Ichigos swordsmanship is called into question based on "if he fights like IRL person x" because no animanga sword character does unless directly inspired like Shunsui is with Miyamoto Musashi.
Thusly Ichigo doesn't need to use a specific sword style in order to be a good Swordsman. If Ichigo is capable of determining the advantages and disadvantages between his weapon and his opponents and literally end them with precision then that's all he needs. Opening with a power strike isn't foolish, it's a measuring stick as I explained in the video to which Ichigo uses as a read to counter his opponents next attack. I broke that down for 2 separate fights Ikkaku and Ginjo.
This video is so good
Thank you. I was hoping it'd be decent at the very least after not posting for 3 months.
Beautiful vid
Thank you
Don't forget the sword fight between him and Ywach.
Which one? 😂. All 3 are pretty good and I did cover their first fight.
But seriously I didn't want to cover every sword fight because I'm going to be doing 1 on his battle with Grimmjow and if I examined every Ichigo sword fight this video might be 60 minutes long.
@@2centswanted113 true, but all three fights with ichigo vs Ywach was pretty good, the first one though is arguably the best since its animated.
Cant wait for the rest of the TYBW arc.
@@Thunor93 wait which 3?
1) Was during Ichigo's Bankai training in Soul society arc
2) was at the start of the blood war
3)Is the final battle. Unless your also counting that brief fight infront of the soul king?
THIS IS WHY HE’S THE ICHIGOAT
And always will be!
Id say its more of a tachi than a nodachi
The reason I assume it's a nodachi is that Minazuki is drawn with a more pronounced curve so I thought that was the Tachi but your right in some art works Tensa Zangetsu has a pretty curve
Some people don’t realize just how invested Kubo is into his characters, fights and story. He shows more than tells, and the amount of illiteracy is telling😭. People are used to flashy anime that don’t accurately replicate skill, so when Ichigo doesn’t outright monologue his skill, special move name, description of move and the doom of his opponent, swordsmanship is not recognized.
Zanjutsu is crazy!..
Agreed, Zanjutsu is the extremely unpredictable
Mans went to carrying kitchen knife to dual swords
The entire point of ichigo is to be an Jack of all traits main characther. Byakuya at first was not that impressed by ichigo bankai form he could clearly tell that it was incomplete. then suddenly ichigo gets a powerboost from his hollow side which makes him able to keep up with byakuya which even shocks him.
What? Nooo, he’s not a a swordsman, he’s… uh… a cutboy. Yeah, that’s the ticket, he’s just as big old cutboy!
If only Ichigo had the technique and swordskill of Unohana tho. That'd be crazy
Also the way I see it, Ichigo has more talent than proper technique. He's kinda like Roy Jones in a way
Fortunately she is the peak of sword skill in Bleach so no one actually is in her level (except Kenny).
I agree with that comparison until TLA. Ichigo's approach to swordfighting and his knowledge of combat evolved. Distance makes the heart grow fonder as they say.
Ichigo relied mainly on his speed when it came to sword fighting which despite his lack of swordsmanship he was able to close the gap compared to others who are masters at it.
That statement is inaccurate
@@2centswanted113 I had a feeling it would be. I remember bleach way back. I know Ichigo has gotten way stronger in strength, riatsu, speed, and I’m not sure if he got sword training for anyone else I’m pretty sure no. But in early on series like the battle he had with Byakuya Ichigo out speed his and always able to cut his shikai attack.
they clearly haven't watched or read Bleach if they saying that.
no, like; genuinely. anyone saying that is just being an intentionally inflammatory troll, talking out their ass. there's almost no point in responding to such accusations. aside from telling them "go watch or read it".
other than that? good video!! i personally found the order weird. i would've done Ikkaku, then Byakuya, then Ginjo. but hey, that's just me.
another thing worth mentioning is that he only used Getsuga Tensho once, iirc, against Byakuya, in Shikai. which destroys the "Getsuga spammer" or "Getsuga merchant" “argument”. in Bankai, in the anime, i seem to recall him using a Getsuga. before White took over. it was brief, blink and you miss it. and it wasn't black either.
I won’t say he’s not a swordsman, but sword skill absolutely becomes less of a viable option in later seasons. Mainly because he’s being put again literal gods way above his skill level, and really only gets the jump when he gets some kinda power up. Like take aizen, no sword skill can ever beat him and that’s been a proven fact countless times, eventually when ichigo hits dangai he’s so strong he doesn’t even really have to use any sword techniques, he can literally afford just to grab aizen’s sword without risk of being cut cause he’s just that OP in dangai. In more balanced fights, he’ll absolutely implement proper fighting techniques, but when it comes to extremely OP characters, it’s more optimal for him just to power up and getsuga. That’s how I think about it.
Ppl saying a person who fights with a sword, isn’t a swordsman, is crazy.
Hate will make people say weird stuff
I was of the camp that ichigo was just a strong guy with a sword. I've been humbly prove wrong
Thank you🙏🏽 I'm glad I could convince you. It's always awesome to see people change their mind because its never easy to admit
all i know is, the same people who say that shit about ichigo prolly dickride zoro for doing his famous "dash across the battlefield one and done" in like 90% of his fights as godlike swordsmanship
😂😂 accurate af, I say that as a Zoro fan
People forget how ichigo, naruto and luffys are all fighting people with far greater combat experience than them and they are able to ajust and even later in thier fights go blow for blow with these characters.
Been thought this he learned from ear
Didn't he learn kendo as a kid with tatsuki, or was it Judo. Well he's not unfamiliar with proper martial arts. He isn't just a street fighter with no basics.
It was Karate. I guess I shouldnt have cut that part of the video out. Ichigo was taught Karate by Tatsuki. Taught Hakuda by Isshin. And learned to fight multiple armed opponents without a weapon by fighting local gangs. Ichigo in hands is legit
This is just one of multiple fruitless and baseless claims people make to undermine the credibility of the series. Because they refuse to acknowledge why it’s one of big three, and thereby make a fool of themselves due to their arrogance.
i subbed
crazy how hard one piece fans are coping in the comment section.
I don't get it, as a Zoro fan Even I can see how little any actual technique is diagrammed for the viewer or reader
Ikkaku is definitely way older he's fought Kenpachi before both became shinigami and Kenpachi is over 1000 years
old he also one of the most experienced and has trained even Renji and maybe other Shinigami especially from squad 11
I'd say Ikkaku is decently older than Byakuya he should've been an adult already when Byakuya was just a teen
Exactly. So we know that Zaraki has only been Kenpachi for at the most 99 years.
Kiganjo was Kenpachi during Turn back the pendulum which was 110-100 years before the story of Bleach. When Zaraki faced Kiganjo less than 100 years ago he had Yachiru with him and we also know that Yachiru was present for the Zaraki Ikkaku duel. So they fought at the very least 100 years ago. So anyone pretending they don't have that experience doesn't know bleach.
He has hands 😂
Careful haters don't like you saying Ichigo can do anything but Getsuga Tenshou
Last i checked a couple things of note
One pappa kurasaki basically trained Ichigo with attacking him randomly getting his reaction skill game up
Aside from that cause i cant remember where it was stated Ichigo had hand to hand combat training i think it was in one of the early school episodes
Anyway
Despite learning the bare basics, kisuke essential forced Ichigo in his training to adapt a kinda killing intent as well as a more survival style of combat like this isnt your hads dude you make a single mistake that could be it for you
Regardless i start dying when i see polls on twitter like whos the better swordsman between Zoro and Ichigo. I bust into tears like dude its stated by azien to be a captain you need multiple years of training to master certain forms of combat before your a captain and these dudes are stupid old ichigo is basically not only able to tag n keep up with captain level fighters and at times is doing it with one hand which is relatively a nerf for soul reapers its wild how downplayed Ichigo currently is in fandoms
Ichigo is a great swordsman. An example of a bad swordsman is Inuyasha.
Dang don't do my dawg Inuyasha like that 😭(Bigger Sesshōmaru fan anyway)
Bleach doesn't have much in the way of legitimate swordplay pound for pound, cause no shit supernatural critters casually moving lightspeed and fucking on each other with long range, basically energy, attacks but Kubo did try to include elements of swordsmanship where it made sense, IE near peer opponents, to keep it from being just "ha ha I spam ability at you". Like even in the Uliq vs Ichigo fight when Uliq is base and Ichigo masked or Ichigo hollowified and Uliq segunda etapa you see elements of swordplay come into it (though for the latter more hollow ichigo roasting Uliq indirectly by showing he isn't even trying that much)
Maybe canonically Ichigo is skilled at swordplay, but Kubo does not know enough about swordplay to draw/write it properly, which is why the swings are always so stupidly wide and there's no binding and winding. Characters will literally jam their swords against each other and just keep pushing linearly like morons.
Literally showed examples of characters engaging from the bind or incorporating IRL sword skills but ok
@@2centswanted113 In one of your examples Ichigo literally binds Byakuya's blade and both of them hold it, doing nothing but pushing directly against each other for ten full seconds while they talk.
@@2centswanted113 not trynna hate ik its anime and its still cool af theyre just not real sword fights
well tbf bleach is a magical girl anime with some shonen aspects
Good vid
Thank you 🙏🏽
I actually love this clash between tham that happens at 4:19 - 4:32
ruclips.net/video/RMNj2LB99iY/видео.htmlsi=o78_vF6UUOKHfTnU
Im sorry its an amv but its the only way i could find hhat scene uncut
Ichigo has low sword technique, definitely