Endgame for the Psychedelic Renaissance? Jamie Wheal
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- Опубликовано: 27 июл 2024
- Tensions are running high in the fast-growing field of psychedelic medicine. As companies use aggressive tactics to corner the market, researchers and activists are being pushed toward check-mate.
Alexander Beiner speaks with Jamie Wheal to make sense of what's been happening - including patent grabs, Tim Ferriss raising the alarm around psychedelic ethics, and striking new accusations of corporate lobbying to prevent Oregon from democratising psilocybin therapy.
Links referenced in the film:
Vice article by Shayla Love revealing Compass Pathways' patent tactics: www.vice.com/en/article/93wmx...
Tim Ferriss' Twitter thread raising the issue of aggressive psychedelic patenting: / 1366887907248771077
And his blog post about it: tim.blog/2021/03/05/some-thou...
Christian Angermayer's response: / open-letter-tim-ferris...
David Bronner's blog post alleging Compass Pathways' involvement in lobbying to stop Measure 109 in Oregon: www.drbronner.com/all-one-blo...
We Will Call it Pala (short story): hereandnowstudios.com/we-will...
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Companies don't know what they are messing with.
Psychedelics have their own agenda.
@@bradbecker8982 Oh, but they do! You just don't think so.
@@bradbecker8982
The word "psychedelic" is also used to refer to the substances, as I'm sure you know.
The idea that the medicines are alive isn't a new idea. The shamanic cultures of the world have long considered the plants to have their own consciousness.
You are right, they have their own agenda. I believe we can work with them because I have. I have had the most success while working with a shaman. So we could work with the shamans and the plants to help ourselves and others. In fact I think it is one of the greatest medicines for the ills of our society because the plants have their own agenda. For some reason this is a very hard topic for people to talk about. Nobody talks about the shaman’s role. If western people work with shamans for years then they to could become shamans and help people. It’s not going to work if people try to do this in a scientific clinical way or try to go at it alone.
Like Carl Jung said, beware of unearned wisdom, gentlemen.
@@RomanKosins that seems to me the whole point of the talk. The 'shaman' is no different to the priest as the link between the experience as it pertains to HOW the individual 'should' interpret the experience. A safety net of social cohesion that allows the experience an interpretive purpose and anchor somehow.
When that anchor becomes interpreted through priests and shaman that are attached/aligned to systems/values of the mainstream society, then the counter-culture questioning aspect of the experience may be adjusted accordingly.
It's an interesting lens to question the whole undertaking of drugs through. Are psychedelic drugs themselves experienced as perceived reality that's different partially BECAUSE drugs are interpreted as against the mainstream?
Can I be considered to be on psychedelics because of posing such a question ⁉️ lol
'Yoga' is a prime example of a transformational practice coming into the main stream and being watered down and then become something totally other than ... is anything at all sacred ??? Not at this level of human consciousness, the very thing these tools are here to shift ! Hearing Jamie speak really psyches me up !!
No people just don't believe it in like the fairies
I was just thinking the same thing about yoga....
Yeah but now we all do yoga. Difficult to see how a world with only a few men in India doing a more 'authentic' sprirutual version is optimal? I mean you'r more than welcome to go live in an ashram. Personally it just doesn't fit in with my other life goals like 30 mins of yoga does.
@Vicky Turner It's a mindset achieved by everything, Yoga has become a race bait.
Have faith in Osho
100%!!!!
This is a main reason why I left Peru where psychedelic tourism is fkn exploitative, often profit focused, actually downright psychologically dangerous for some unsuspecting punters and generally worrying. The problems of instilling a “western scientific capitalist” framework are equally fraught. I hope these issues can be resolved and I’m so grateful for you guys taking the conversation head on. 🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽
Jamie Wheal is so great when he gets going, that was one of the best 'fuck off's of all time. Back of the net.
So great to hear impassioned acknowledgement of the weak wankers of the world
Appreciate your comment...
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the best p.s.y.c.h.y p.r.o.d.u.c.t.s p.e.e.p.s.
This bruh is dope a.s.f with s.h.r.o.o.m.s,
d.m.t, I.s.d and .o.t.h.e..s
When you strip out the sacred it’s banal bullshit, like everything else. The root of the problem is the scientistic materialist worldview behind the bio-medical approach being used. The new priesthood does not know shit from shinola. Thin gruel indeed.
Look what China did in 1967 - 1976 called the Cultural Revolution.. aggressive destruction of everything that was of the Old China, all spiritual, all that was wise, the spirit of the old china was you know from legends and dynasties, nearly completely gone. Wiped, books and libraries burned, great minds killed... Why? For transformation, now China has smart people, more productive, grows, is richer financially and powerful.. but it lacks the depth, it lacks the old wisdom, that is gone. Chinese people are not Chinese anymore, this China of today is a new country. It is like saying, they traded their soul for a boost in productivity and intelligence. Where does it lead? To an ant-like civilization. Everybody surveilled constantly. The phone is the cip we feared, but there the laws for privacy is non-existent. Is as you said, "When you strip out the sacred it’s banal bullshit".
I was afraid of this too. I almost just want them to stay illegal/underground. By now we should all know what happens when "they" get ahold of anything. Like you said, it will loose it's soul. I'm already seeing a lot of people using psychedelics for all the wrong reasons, especially acid. It's like a toy for the younger generation. You can go so deep with lsd and get so much done. It's not a party drug.
No I think there’s a problem with your confused and lazy conflation of distinct phenomena into a messy pile of negativity
Appreciate your comment...
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the best p.s.y.c.h.y p.r.o.d.u.c.t.s p.e.e.p.s.
This bruh is dope a.s.f with s.h.r.o.o.m.s,
d.m.t, I.s.d and .o.t.h.e..s
So...you mean what we’re seeing is that these people who’ve had transformative experiences really haven’t been transformed? So, psychedelics don’t REALLY transform you...but that you still MUST do the work of fully incorporating the experiences so that you CAN transform. Well gee...that’s a surprise...right? The mindset of the West just doesn’t change...always looking for a shortcut and always wanting to squeeze some kind of personal gain out of every possible material thing. But...hey...the Universe is a badass teacher...and people will definitely find out...in all the ways Jamie is speaking about and more. A truly transformed person would never participate in ANYTHING that goes against said transformation, EVEN if it means the demise of their body. THAT’S what transformation actually is...not some experience. It is a complete change of being, of essence that none of the corrosive forces Jamie is speaking of could even come close to touching.
You’re foolish to underestimate the enemy! EVERYTHING, including mother’s milk and even pregnancy itself, can be commodified by capitalism! How could consciousness, or at least the “Keys” to it, be sacrosanct?
@@r.bevantrembly3687 - Oh...I’m not underestimating. I fully know what you state is the gospel truth. But...I also know what actual transformation is. And...actual transformation CANNOT be commodified or corrupted, nor can someone who is actually transformed. That was my whole point. I was just being quite sarcastic because I am so over this BS about how psychedelics enlighten you and cure everything. Just another place people are looking for a savior...because they still cannot see the only savior anyone will ever have no matter what is themselves...and they still cannot see that you cannot get out of doing the work. There is no savior external to anyone. Never has been, never will be.
@@Hermetic7 I'm starting to realise this myself
This is absolutely BRILLIANT! Bravo Ali & Jamie! We all need to scream this from the roof tops!!!
So great to see there’s more thinking like this!
The integrity of the community context in which one reintegrates their experience into is the key for the success of healing‼️
Man, i wish Terence was here for this time in history.
I watched terrance's last interview recently. He described the universe and all intelligence coming to a concrescent formulation. This is what we are seeing now, especially through movements like this, where all subcultures are merging and cross-pollinating through hyper capitalist ventures.
@@darylsmith5930 the internet too. Which he talked a lot about bringing everything together.....even in the 90s he knew what wad gonna happen. I grew up then and i don't know anybody that seen this coming. Buy i think all of us having mini computers/cell phones in our pockects is a huge reason too
Yeh I wish that almost everyday
And Alexander Shulgin, and many others.
Terrence is dead. He wants us to ‘Be here now’
Solution: grow your own
Jamie Wheal is pretty damn awesome. One of those guys that I'm thankful for. "He said it - so I don't have to."
Nobody does real like Wheal. A strange kind of grim satisfaction to hear such a poetic sensemaker say we're fucked.
I thought something similar lol
But he also said, that these mystery traditions and psychedelics usage has survived empire after empire.
If you don't compete in the game, they can't crush you. Didn't McKenna say something similar? Something about, if beige fascism is on the rise you have to engage in some kind of psychedelic anarchy.
Thats the product Wheal is selling.
Psychedelics have actually had a big impact on my life but I feel like it's not appropriate to even talk about them. It's interesting that it's becoming more acceptable now.
Most excellent. Thank you. Coming from the OG Bay Area underground warehouse background...the biggest trip in my life has been to watch this three ring circus with front row seats.
I told everybody decades ago once they start legalizing things this would happen. I was referring specifically to Marijuana but it works this way with everything. This was so predictable. People said the system is corrupt. I said then why do you want to make these things apart of the system. They said these things would replace the system. I said no they will become apart of the same corrupt system. Nobody ever listens.
I'm with ya. I live in a recreational marijuana city, it's getting so abused. It's lost all it's charm to me.
This is great. I need to inform myself more
Incredible information. Thank you!
So many cats in so many bags. This is going to be interesting. Great talk, thanks for making the effort to share these perspectives.
Great topic, thanks for making this interview
Excellent chat.
i just wanna let you fine people know, i invested in a diy flow hood/cabinet. i'm gonna grow a shitton of mushrooms this year.
Someone I know very well worked for whole foods then allegro coffee. 10 years and a major move to a new area of the us for work and boom they were deemed an inefficiency and let go during the pandemic. The bit about the anaconda squeezing the “inefficiency” out it absolutely true.
This whole interview is amazing and it’s obvious the speakers have thought and reached on this topic. It’s a genuine conversation about the reality of the psychedelic movements future with in a capitalistic corpo-state.
Authenticity is the greatest of all psychedelics
I can dig it
no, there is nothing more banal than someone being 'authentic'
Very good to point out the dangers of losing the wisdom tradition and having capitalism reduce it to the race to the bottom. Listening to the whole interview and glad that Jamie is bringing this forward. We need the experienced folks show what a proper ceremony is. Not some dude with phone assistance during your trip
Jamie Wheal for our wisdom council!
You glorious, Maestros! Gracias.
We need to keep the scientists, academics, profiteers, and everyone else besides Shamans and trippers who have taken psychedelics enough time to have good and bad trips and know how to handle people while they're tripping. If you've never done psychedelics, you don't belong in the game. PERIOD. Don't insert your bad-spirit into the psychedelic headspace. IT WILL RUIN IT FOR EVERYONE.
Peter joseph speaks at length about (systemic) market dynamics and its influence on society in his book. It would be great to have h on rebel wisdom :)
YES. Thank you so much! this is freakingly important
We are in a global shift if redefining institutions. The idea of “going back” to where we were is passe. Capitalism as we've known it, is up for dissection and reconstruction hopefully, that will challenge ethical standards and values. The power is in the people and for the people to resist the pressure that drives unmitigated capitalism. What's wrong with living simply and keeping corporate exploitation? The power is ours, the consumers.
You should have talked for several hours, this was great. Thank you.
For proof of a lot of what was talked about in here, just join a psychedelic group on FB.
Money , its about Money and how It corrupts
Great discussion esp the discussion re corporate forces (rather than "market forces", as we have always had markets even huntergatherers had some form of place of exchange between tribes)
How about a show discussing how psychedelics are effecting everyday life in general...like are people nicer to each other? Less depression? Less crime? Etc ...🤷🏻♂️🇺🇸
Beautifully articulated by Jamie. For long-time listeners and participants who may understand what is the meaning of "stitched up", can you explain it to me?
Like another person says in the comments, a few years ago i thought that Wheal is a grifter but i’ve come to love him more and more. This was fantastic 🤘
Organic Wal-Mart for yuppies. Brilliant.
I was highly sceptical and suspicious of Wheal, but he talks too much sense to be a grifter.
I've had the exact same experience watching Wheal. Something about his face I think. He's good though
He's a closet SJW, but he knows his stuff about psychedelics and was correct in his predictions of how psychedelics would go mainstream.
@@Ajax-wo3gt my pet hamster could have predicted that tho, evolution of human consciousness is tied in with the medicine.
@@wizdumb3777 Nothing you've said is a legitimate retort to what I've said. Move along, pleb.
@@Ajax-wo3gt lmao, how are you offended by that? Clearly need more psychedelics to sort that weak ass mentality out 😂
I'm going to patent blinking... it's ok, you can still blink but I get royalties. Deal?
Call me cynical, but what I don`t get is how anyone thought that this process of co-opting of psyche medicine by moneymen would not happen.
Ali asks Jamie for an example of where something positive gets big and has not been co-opted in this way and he is unable to come up with a single example.
Jamie Wheal is amazing.
I just don't get how we are speaking about this as a product. If I come into a psychedelic trip with a bad thought let alone bad intention I know that I might be in for a freakish trip. These tools have way more power than any corporate system
I truly love listening to Jamie Wheal speak, there’s always so much descriptive visuals in every point he makes. However, sometimes I find he over executes what he wants to convey. It’s like someone’s asked for a clear technical drawing of the overall architecture but Jamie produced this beautiful renaissance oil painting of the building. It’s awe inspiring on the surface & I appreciate the detail but to use it in executing the project to build skyscrapers misses the simplicity of drawing lines between the points.
Don’t get me wrong, Jamie is a stunning intellectual but some of the tangents that the conversation leads down even leaves the interviewer at difficulty to make educated comments - & I feel some of the points are at risk of pseudo intellectualizing the topic.
Are we really that shocked that as we introduce normalizing psychedelics to society that it would get in to the hands of greedy capitalists to take advantage & make their own corner to draw in punters just to make a quick buck?... & of course scientists were always going to explore the pharmaceutical properties of psychedelics... it has been on the cards for a long time & can help make major breakthroughs for medical treatments for things such as depression & PTSD etc.
Was it ever truly realistic to imagine that we’d live in a world were psychedelics were never capitalized on? 😅 I don’t want that as much as the next person, no way! But that’s not to say that the truly spiritual & enlightening use of psychedelics will disappear! Course we won’t let that happen! Like with everything, people will vote with their feet, if the spiritual & enlightening natured version of psychedelic experience is the one we want then that’s what we’ll pay for & demand. Even in the time when psychedelics haven’t been capitalized on, there’s still black markets & dark, nasty areas where people take advantage of others as well - It’s just taking a different form as corporate companies. Every psychedelic experience pursued out there hasn’t always been a story of shamanic enlightenment that boosts your spiritual awakening through the stratosphere. It would be naive to think that...
Jamie is diagnosing the issue very well but resolving a vision of how we should realistically integrate psychedelics in to the western world is something we’ll have to wait for him to elegantly describe next time I suppose!! Which I very much look forward to.
Anyway, I really feel like I’m missing some substance from the conversation & I totally hold my hands up that this could majorly be my personal issue in correctly digesting some of the concepts haha! So I’d certainly appreciate anyone who can realign my thoughts on this talk!
I personally don’t think you missed anything. Some of the first words spoken were (paraphrased), ‘there are 3 moves left in the game [before the good guys lose]’.
I think there is a little more hope than that, but I don’t believe that hope will ever lie in the mainstream. ✌🏼
Anyone that investigates psychological thinking is already misaligned with their families. It certainly does not take psychedelics to disrupt families. People are dreadfully unconscious, as well as uninformed about human behavior and life in general.
The Whole food example is great to show the difference between corporates and family businesses (both can be arbitrarily large) - one, by law, is forced to be a corporate sociopath, the other, the family business may or may not be run by a sociopath - but how do we change this law?
Get rid of the need for corporations to turn a profit in order to exist or get rid of them altogether.
Another crazy idea is to force corporations by law to give a portion of their shares to the communities they are located in, their employees, and THEN the moneymen/public traders... allowing seats on the board for each group of folks instead of just the investors/moneymen.
@@RaphaelCGA yes good idea ... have you heard of this idea of shareholder capitalism... part of great reset...?
@@socraticsceptic8047 will look it up. If it's similar to what I outlined then.. I'm not surprised someone was thinking along similar lines then I was with that idea.. the question is: how will it be co-opped by those that want to "win" instead of seeing how long we all can last.
I’m looking for a graph of what Jamie Wheal is taking about ..... not finding it, anyone have one already?
This chap clearly knows the subject very well.
2:53 Truth bomb!
This is not a game. This is life changing medicine
Wow that fuck off was something else brilliant 😂😂😂😂😂. Always good to watch and listen to Jamie wheal.
Appreciate your comment...
@vanzmyco_ on I.n.s.t.a.g.r.a.m s.e.l.l.s
the best p.s.y.c.h.y p.r.o.d.u.c.t.s p.e.e.p.s.
This bruh is dope a.s.f with s.h.r.o.o.m.s,
d.m.t, I.s.d and .o.t.h.e..s
Appreciate your comment...
@vanzmyco_ on I.n.s.t.a.g.r.a.m s.e.l.l.s
the best p.s.y.c.h.y p.r.o.d.u.c.t.s p.e.e.p.s.
This bruh is dope a.s.f with s.h.r.o.o.m.s,
d.m.t, I.s.d and .o.t.h.e..s
Anyone know who Jamie means by "Matt" and perhaps have a link to the article discussed around 43:00?
Dr. Matt Johnson @Hopkins. Important paper he published recently on the "Jingle Effect" of discussing consciousness without having shared empirical definitions and the problem of therapists or guides smuggling in their own mishmash spirituality into treatment sessions with suggestible patients. Paper title: "Consciousness, Religion, and Gurus: Pitfalls of Psychedelic Medicine"
@@jamierwheal Sounds fascinating, thank you!
well-ness does have a soporific ring to it; well-ness as a state (potentially) leading to a deficit of aware-ness...a new item on the spa-buddhism menu, but with a psychedelic twist ...just a reflection...
As long as the spores themselves are legally for sale, people who choose to cultivate will sidestep the greed and selfish interest that has entered into the arena to corrupt what is a most beautiful and ultimately healing experience that promises to return its participants to wholeness and completion….the psychedelic experience.
The question is, "Do the Ends justify the means?"
When I seen a book titled how to make money in the upcoming psychedelic revolution, I was disgusted, the interest in psychedelic substances specifically for profit, or specifically for the control or leadership of psychedelic usage, or the substances themselves, is totally misguided, misinterpreted, misused, misunderstood, I mean the point is completely missed!!!!
And it really sucks.
I am an experienced psychedelic explorer of over 30 years. And the mainstream societal acceptance of psychedelics is sure to corrupt it on some levels. Even though I believed at one point that the entire population needs a good dosing. Still do.
Anybody know where David has gone?
A focused medically induced trauma to the left hemisphere could perhaps provide a more permanent solution than psychedelics. Oh, the resultant monetization model is sooo short term.
The cynical description of commerce that Jamie describes sounds a lot like the dynamics in self-help/MLM markets. Toxic places, they are
All academic studies have a "Disclosure" section declaring funding sources and any conflicts of interest. Are you accusing them of lying?
Every time he says "fuck off" I feel like cheering!
Ha! I just grow my own 🤣
I used to grow too. It was a fun hobby and tripping every other month used to be good therapy. Easy yet rewarding.
37:00 - Dunning Kruger effect
The endgame is enlightenment.
Or complete collapse.
"Let the mystery be the mystery." WORD
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the best p.s.y.c.h.y p.r.o.d.u.c.t.s p.e.e.p.s.
This bruh is dope a.s.f with s.h.r.o.o.m.s,
d.m.t, I.s.d and .o.t.h.e..s
This is becoming more and more the brand new world
Brave?
@@kw5961 yes brave 😆
I remember Roland. He was a great guy. Probably still is.
The problem is their are no more shamans. The initiation experience has left the masters and shamans and has been given to the individual. Life initiates us. The main thing we need is research and legality for individuals to do what they choose with their body. We do not need to capitalize psychedelics. The offerings to shamans were a psychological experience for the initiated where they are proving how sincere they are for healing or teaching. The shaman also has no other job so less than it is wealth it is the capacity for them to live decently within context of the society they belong to.
The plan was fucked from the start imo because people were not sincere.
Jamie wheal is too wonderful
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@vanzmyco_ on I.n.s.t.a.g.r.a.m s.e.l.l.s
the best p.s.y.c.h.y p.r.o.d.u.c.t.s p.e.e.p.s.
This bruh is dope a.s.f with s.h.r.o.o.m.s,
d.m.t, I.s.d and .o.t.h.e..s
It was to be expected, wasn't it?
Yup
I want to know about Jamie's light and dark wedding bands. heh
Looks like the dark one is the oura smart ring activity tracker
@@tru9requ Ah, that makes sense, thanks!
You guys are so dreamy
We need to bring back the Hammurabi's code for people like that. Just kidding. But it damn sure should be illegal to corner ANY market. That includes government. New World Order anybody? Get ready for this kind of thing across the board.
The term “Psychedelic Renaissance” poisoned the well.
THEASE people are going to fuck it all up.
Compass Pathways have even eliminated PF Tek. We 're doomed
What's PF Tek?
@@dignan193 It's how the majority of novice growers of Psilocybin cultivated mushrooms from spores. Inoculated in glasses using vermiculite and rice flour. This was how things were done before Compass Pathways make such materials vanish, you understand? We used to send mushrooms to state run psychiatric labs for experiment. It good job before Compass Pathways come along. We no eat 'shrooms. We only work legal government.. What is Psilocybin.. Who are you?? Arrgghh , crank caller ,, me know nothing (hangs up)
They haven't been patented in South America, but that hasn't stopped commercialization, nor psychedelic tourism with faux shamans who make random concoctions to make gringos happy.
If you want a Rebel movement that has no end game, we need David to be our Leader...because...like...he never finishes his
True rebellion is growing your own food 👈😀
Amen
Checkers is done. Chess rapping up. The next game will be roulette. Every move a high stakes roll of the dice. Or be wise, quit the game.
We may want to curtail our belief in magic bullets. Financializing and pharmaceuticalizing the "benefits" of using these plant compounds in certain contexts and with carefully considered intent...well, we can intuit the second, third order, and collateral effects we might be headed for. Wouldn't it be wonderful if this time we could go slower and do things better. Not in the current culture. $$$$$$$ #profitsfirst misses the meaning altogether. The uphill battle will continue as long as there are homo sapiens on earth.
its always that way .. its not right and we need to follow only them.
Maybe it will be like raiders of the lost ark. Big capital will open the ark of psychedelics and it will melt their minds. I think this may be the end of civilisation
It reminds me of H.P. Lovecraft, lol:
"The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of the infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far."
Yes, but remember, if you just close your eyes and turn the other way, you won't be affected, lol. The ethics of that movie, hahaha.
This is a shame.
Who/what is/are the Carni's - Carnivores??
I assumed carnival worker type grifters. Which is how I always saw Trump BTW
It’s unfortunate when important information is delivered like just “another media news circuit”.
I get it. It’s frustrating.
But when we share really important disclosure information or news in opposition, consider instead speaking for awareness in a way that is not snared with rancidity and/or judgement. This is exactly where we poison our own influence. And hand the power right back to the ones we oppose.
It’s passed the time - do it differently. Be better than old & antiquated opposition paradigm of “Us vs. them” by BEING better on all levels. (Minus the “better than thou” syndrome)
You’re criticising the critical tone? Wow.
Same experience I had. The attention economy is the problem. He is working in the same space of attention for Capital, but isn't being very good about recognizing his own delivery being part of a negative feedback loop. Still important to hear and I know I'm not above doing the same. May be doing it now to get attention by calling him out.
I would have liked to hear a bit more nuance and sympathy for why Capitalism ties so strongly to money and what realistic measures we can attempt to still keep values of the free market economy ideals outside of monetary ties. (Which does sound strange to say "outloud" when using the term economy)
@@JH-ji6cj ;
You bring forward the heart of my point. The greatest influence of change is not diminishing or shutting down the opposition, but about offering another perspective from a place of sympathy/understanding and constructive feedback.
Of course, the receptivity of it can be defensive, because well... that’s where they are experiencing the circumstances in themselves (hence the case in point).
And honestly, there’s nothing wrong with that; with wanting to be and express forms of anger and fear. If the goal is to vent and not create best case solutions.
From that standpoint, hearing an opposing view that is coming from a grounded and non-diminishing individual would commonly be heard as “criticizing with criticism”. Again that’s part of their own discovery.
What I hear from you J H, was not you contradicting yourself by bringing up a differing point from the video from a neutral and constructive place. That’s a place where big changes over... a place of mutual respect for differing views. Regardless if I/they agree or not on all your points.
It’s about inward distinctions and awareness of intent. At least that’s where I’m at so far.
Thank you for you thoughtful comment.
Lilly, I recognize you from other channels we have in common. I agree with the sentiment. I remember saying to a family member years ago who was “on the other side” of the political spectrum that I was gravitating to...that the truth is, we all want the same thing. She scoffed at me and emphatically said...No. We do not. I felt a little defeated at that. And have continued to have similar exchanges. Can’t we just all get along? 😂 It’s like it’s an age old paradigm that is dying to be reborn. But maybe the truth is, at our core we are divided. The thing we seek could be singular, but it shifts depending on where we are standing. The polarity of everything; it could be as enduring as our endless quest for answers.
@@mattgumbley1317 integral thinking is combinatorial as is being wise, so I think it's fair to call out critical rants over critical thinking. I'm all for critical thinking, but not so much vilifying yuppies, esp when I can't imagine most people thinking both of the guys in this video are yuppies making their living off of the attention economy associated to spirituality concerns. Whole Foods of the mind, so to speak.
I get it, I'm here too, but I think it's especially fair to call out lack of nuance and context as fair criticism OF critique.
What are the best models for alternatives to our current economic system and exchanging goods and services?
Exactly. It always comes back to trade and value...esp when trade is seen as most valuable when taken for free.
Edit: and yeah that last line was tongue-in-cheeck sarcasm. To me the bigger question, like hot peppers, is whether plants produce psychedelics as a thorn or a fruit.
Blockchain and crypto will transform this and provide some alternative
Recommend Sacred Economics by Eisenstein. And doughnut economics by Kate Raworth for an understanding of the current situation.
you just do it yourself, and bypass all the bullshit, never fails
What I'm hearing is the return of the mystery school 🧙🏾♂️
It's all very easy to get a hold of. the sheep populous are there for a reason
does anyone know how the psychedelic culture is in Colorado? is there an emerging job market surrounding psychedelics? curious.
Give this to whom Owns it ... Only.. I believe Natives
The beauty of psychedelics, is they are anti-authoritarian. Just grow your own and tell corps to fuck-off!
EDIT: I'm not sure I get Jamie Wheal, though. Having never heard of him, I searched YT and listened to some of his older talks/interviews. He sounds exactly like the types of people he rails against in this video. What happened? Did he have an ego death?
I don’t quite understand the surprise here. The observed effects are simply capitalism doing what it does... Same as it ever was.
I think the surprise comes from the fact that it was so unthinkable 20 years ago
@@GuyJames Capitalism in its current form has been functional on Earth for centuries. I'd be hugely surprised if, 20 years ago, it was felt that the psychedelic space _as a market opportunity_ was somehow uniquely exempt from capitalism's mechanism of action.
Why cannot both participants - company and people interests coexist?
Allow individuals to do their research and decide the appropriate avenue.
Suggest Sacred economics
Usually the companies screw the balance in order to grab more power and wealth for themselves at the expense of everyone else and then blame everyone else for being "lazy" and they "just need to work harder". Also whenever the workers collectively get together to ensure their interests are met THAT organization of workers gets captured by greed and corruption and it stops ensuring the interests of the workers. Also in order for your last statement to be a thing you have to put regulations to stop the psychologically manipulative practices that is modern marketing.
As someone who went on a 10 day ayahuasca retreat in November of 2019. The western mind has no business, pun intended, in this area of mind exploration or even the pursuit of enlightenment.
You meant to say the Western "capitalist mindset," not the Western mind as a whole. I agree but to reduce the Western mind to merely a profit motive is beyond ignorant.
@@WiseG33k Maybe the arrogant western mindset, which you beautifully just demonstrated. Tell me what part of western culture stems from the traditions and culture from the Amazon?
Right, Google it and make another rage bait comment
@@JohnnyMUTube I was not in the least angry. I said I agree with you (in part). You, on the other hand, come across as quite angry and unpleasant. So much for the enlightened mind.
You're the one who brought up the "Western mind," you define it, then. The burden of proof to justify your view rests solely on your shoulders here, not mine.
If you don't want or care to do that or think my Western mind is too narrow to grasp your infinite wisdom, then we don't need to continue this back and forth any further. Good day.
@@JohnnyMUTube if you're actions are any indication of what enlightenment might be, then why would anyone ascribe to it given your rage and hatred and bigotry toward Western ideas? Seems more you demonstrate the problems with attachment that your retreat didn't release you from, namely, that critical thinking is actually an important facet of mental exploration and psychedelics don't give you those tools.
If anything, your representation seems to imply that your retreat only further cemented dislike and distrust of the community you were disliking by searching out the experience to 'get away/be emancipated from' that community. Dangerous stuff and not a good look on what you exemplify spirituality being.
@@WiseG33k I agree with your response, but would ask your opinion if the video itself did any better to dispel the vitriol against yuppies/Westerners. I am all for constructive criticism of the Western culture I live in, and subscribe to this channel in an attempt to be better at understanding those criticisms, but this talk seems to have a lot of directed aggressive attacks that lack nuance and context.
I'm not looking to hear from a liberal Ben Shapiro, though I do understand that emotion is big in the attention economy. I'm not overly annoyed with the talk, really, just mildly. Spidey-sense going off I guess.
Marketing will focus on only the benefits, play down the dangers, and totally hype it up ( market it ). Companies and rival industries in the space will infight and claim each other to have dangerous practices. But overall that might improve safety and the ethics in the business long term. Eventually. Some where down the road
Appreciate your comment...
@vanzmyco_ on I.n.s.t.a.g.r.a.m s.e.l.l.s
the best p.s.y.c.h.y p.r.o.d.u.c.t.s p.e.e.p.s.
This bruh is dope a.s.f with s.h.r.o.o.m.s,
d.m.t, I.s.d and .o.t.h.e..s
Appreciate your comment...
@vanzmyco_ on I.n.s.t.a.g.r.a.m s.e.l.l.s
the best p.s.y.c.h.y p.r.o.d.u.c.t.s p.e.e.p.s.
This bruh is dope a.s.f with s.h.r.o.o.m.s,
d.m.t, I.s.d and .o.t.h.e..s
jamie whom shall I go with. In the market
Nothing to worry. Psychedelics are playing us! It will all work out at the end!
nice
Shrooomms
can some one teach me to make dmt? done it a bunch of times frog andd synethic, grown shrooms and weed for years happy to teach you in return, going to start grwing opium and a few cacti :) cacti are aall legal lol have fun!!
im not worried the war on drugs will never end, will keep making new ones lol,
Me too please.