I like to think the Brand-Shei plot hole isn't really a plot hole at all, rather it's a statement on the sheer carnage Morrowind endured in such a short amount of time, it's possible Brand-Shei's parents thought their great house was wiped out when they fled, which isn't a big leap when you look at what was going on at the time, it kinda adds to the tragedy that if his parents just stayed in Morrowind and rode out the storm, they wouldn't have been killed in a literal storm while fleeing to Skyrim.
@@blindtreeman8052 I mean, Neloth was around to see Dagoth Ur defeated by the Nerevarine... he's REALLY old. Probably has to get dementia at some point.
@@Rip.van.winkle4 No, I'm thinking of Neloth. In Morrowind, if you join Telvanni then he becomes your patron. Though I am curious what happened to Divayth Fir.
the funny thing is this little slip up could be fixed by a little modification, like having the player actually fill up a barrel of the poisoned mead and carrying it to the other building and setting it in place, and then the player sits down just to watch the guards walk through the door for the taste testing. and done, just like there was no mistake at all.
@Brandon Quist i guess at that point the player can leave the mission for a while after he dumped the stuff and walk in and you can immersivity assume that the guy got the sample himself when you weren't looking, then the narrative makes sense, sort of.
@@isaacramos1942 so what i was talking about with this idea was adding in a modification through mod magic to fix this little questionable quest design. there are plenty of mods that help fix little issues in this game all the time.
Oh shi- YEAH! Well.. she COULD have had help, but there doesn’t seem to be anyone that is in assistance with her, besides Esbern, and he’s hidden away, so.. yeah, I call plothole.
Solution to Brand-Shei: He isn't the last living member of Clan Telvanni, he's the last person in line to become the leader of the clan. Similarly to Clan Arthur of Scotland in the real world (the last chief died without an heir, leaving the clan leaderless for two centuries), the clan continues to exist. Lynden Telvanni's diary is, in short, the opinion of Lynden Telvanni (I.E. what HE thinks is going on), and the moment you permit the possibility that Lynden is only saying what he knows and believes, then doesn't necessarily contradict anything Neloth says.
Yeah, something like this. There's a political entity House Telvanni. And then there's the original leading noble family of that house that it's named after. Brand-Shei is the last heir of that noble family. Political entity is still around, noble family is gone.
Telvanni leadership isnt based in lineage though. In Morrowind you either get all the magisters to agree to make you the leader, or you kill the ones who oppose you.
Telvanni isn't a clan that's filled with just members of a single family. It's one of the Houses where anyone can join from whole families to lone individuals to even non-dunmers as long as they prove themselves. Telvanni is also a special one where you're allowed to kill other members to rise through the ranks and the only way to be their Archmagister in-game is to kill the current one. I guess a better explanation to this is someone at Bethesda screwed up with the journal. The father's last name is TENvanni, so he was probably meant to be talking about his own clan or family Tenvanni being wiped out, not the whole House Telvanni.
An easy explanation for Sybille Stentor's lack of ageing bothering anyone is a quote from Savos Aren, Arch Mage of The College of Winterhold. "What you learn here will last you a lifetime - several, if you're talented." ―Savos Aren This shows that magic can be used to extend one's life, giving Stentor an excuse for being so young.
i always figured serana’s dwarven comment was more of a, “it’s weird to see such big, advanced cities be so empty” type comment- like she knew there were no more dwarves, but it didn’t strike her as “real” until seeing it with her own eyes, if that makes sense?
@@KujiraFEl this is something a lot of fans see as plot holes in several franchises that aren’t exactly plot holes. How much do you or I know about every missing ancient civilization? It’s not that weird that a character doesn’t know things that are important to us as the player.
Yea, it could also be a combination of the shock of really seeing it along with the shock that they still haven't come back. The dwarves are incredibly intelligent, if they wanted to find a way back to mundus its shocking that they havent yet.
or that they were all dead and that a distant cousin or something took over once the crisis was over. most people in those morrowind family are added into it not born into it.
Yeah he could have just not known about Neoloth, because if you get to the end of Neoloths questline it pretty heavilly implies that Neoloth is one of the last Telvani and has to rebuild.
Plot hole fixed: the official quote says that serana went to sleep in the second era before the septim dynasty. is should be taken into account that she lived long before that and in isolation. this could explain the fact that she was surprised not to find the dwemer. So basically, she knew of the dwemer's existence but not the fact they had disappeared. I do not know the exact date but it could have been that the disappearance if the Dwemer was not revealed to the rest of the world until after she went to sleep.
But if we go by the timeline of the First and Second Eras there are a few thousand years between the disappearance of the Dwemer at the Battle of Red Mountain in the year 700 of the First Era and the beginning of the Second Era. The First Era lasts almost 3000 years, ending with the fall of the Reman Empire. That is a long period of time for this secret to have been kept from the rest of the world, especially since Dwemer ruins are so common in Morrowind and Skyrim.
i think it's easier to explain this detail through the one who created the prophecy was a snow elf who became a vampire during a point in time when the snow elf's were still within the landscape before the dwemer took them in. so i don't think the 2nd era makes much sense in this case, the writer gave some conflicting information that suggests theory rather than truth. to get to the heart of the story, you have to go back to the beginning.
@@JJ_-fp9sj yeah this seems like a likely explanation to me, even when still awake Serana was sequestered in a remote castle that likely didn't get a lot of visitors. It doesn't seem at all implausible that the disappearance of the Dwemer simply didn't come up.
I found a weird plot-hole which is to do with the main quest, the dragonborn is supposed to defeat dragons and save skyrim, however is unable to do this because he has about 300 mods installed and crashes at the start of his quest
Great House Telvanni is likely a different entity from the mainline Telvanni family. Seeing as Neloth isn’t assigned a last name, and Brelyna is a Maryon, what we can assume is that the political entity of Great House Telvanni; that being a collection of loosely related mage clans, continues. Meanwhile, Brand-Shei could be the last able to legitimately bear the last name Telvanni.
Yeah exactly, in the main quest of Morrowind it is possible to join House Telvanni but i don't think any members of the house council are actual members of the family Telvanni.
It could also be the case that the person writing in the journal believes him to be the final heir, and is just an unreliable narrator. But I do like that distinction as well. Kind of like how house Hlalu was disbanded, but there's still a Dunmer family in Windhelm with that last name.
The houses are based on clans and tribes. That means that while kinship is a key point of the great houses it is not impossible to join one. Telvanni especially are liars, slavers and backstabbers so in the event of a catastrophe it is not unlikely that they turn on eachother. In Oblivion theres even a rumor that house Telvanni is trying to push back the invaders but it is not going well. As for Neloth he kidnapped, stole, lied and had others assassinated even as far back as Morrowind so his ego is probably telling him he is the greatest person to ever walk the earth and that he lies to make others believe him.
Additionally, when Neloth makes you a member of house Telvanni in the dragonborn DLC he specifically says that doesn't mean much anymore but will again in a few years. Implying house Telvanni is at least massively diminished.
Vampires don't age, and I always thought it was kind of an open secret that Sybille Stentor was a vampire, not really surprising that nobody is phased by it imo
Seems pretty easy to explain in a world with magic. When you get to the college, Savos Aren says, "What you learn here will last a lifetime. Several if you are talented." Expanded lifespans are not uncommon for magical users, and Sybil is widely renowned for being an accomplished wizard. It seems reasonable that they just believed she artificially extended her life.
@@MistaOppritunity the guards or certain characters mention Sybille doing horrible things to the prisoners the cook talks about how he never sees her eat
@@banegas0411 This is true, however these are people in or close to the royal court who know to keep their god damn mouth shut. It is believable that anyone who hasn't noticed it would believe she has artificially extended her life with magic.
I'm with Nate in this one. since Skyrim it's pretty much a representation of a bigger population. when Ancano release the magical anomalies into winterhold. in theory the casualties of the attack on winterhold are going to be high. I know it sounds like a pretext.. but that is my honest feeling on how Bethesda is going to manage the story going forward ;)
"What you learn here will last you a lifetime. Several, if you're talented." -Savos Aren, Archmage of Winterhold He's pretty much saying outright that powerful wizards have access to magic that slows down their aging dramatically. It would be really easy for Sybille to claim that's what she's using to appear younger than her true age. Not to mention that Sybille's nature might be somewhat of an open secret in the Court itself at least, but she's tolerated anyways due to her long history with the rulers and her powerful magical skills, just as long as she can keep her thirst to those nobody will miss.
In regards to the Psijics, maybe their plan went beyond just trying to save Tamriel. A personal theory is that they deliberately let the events play out the way they did, perhaps to drive home some sort of warning for the College that they need to be more careful with the divine artifacts they unearth, or perhaps even to deliberately mix up the hierarchy of the College and get the Dragonborn in power for reasons known only to themselves. Basically the Psijics are illuminati confirmed
I wouldn't consider the Auger to be "alive" in the same sense, kind of like how some ghosts are completely sentient and aware. I think theres more to that implication than just extending the life of a physical body.
You speak so definitively for a group of writers that can't even keep their complexity in check. Good on you for knowing better than creators who love leaving us PUZZLES to figure out.
@@jonathanwells223 No, you are wrong, we don't know how old was Serana when she went to sleep, she probably was already hundreds of years old before her endless slumber begun.
when i first did that Honningbrew thieves guild quest i had that same thought and when Mallus was like "great job bro you're awesome" or whatever i literally said out loud "dude that's not what i poisoned, Sabjorn's mead is just that shit."
Right? I was wondering why you even needed to bother poisoning the mead in the first place if it's so shit that the guards think they've been poisoned when it's just the normal old mead. If you're being beaten back by mead like that, I feel true and boundless sorrow for the people of Skyrim and their poor tastebuds.
In my mind it's not a plot hole and it's just a touch of irony; you poison the mead being produced, but unknown the the Blackbriar family this made no difference because the increasingly poor hygiene standards at the other meadery already caused the Honningbrew mead to be undrinkable. The place is full of rats after all
In the Eye of Magnus storyline, the Order makes it clear they avoid getting involved in things; the first guy who contacts you says that some in his Order believe even the warning is too far. It's not until AFTER a crisis happens that the rest of the Order is convinced to help.
I'd also say that since they knew what was going to happen, there's also a chance they couldn't get involved. Sort of that trope of "you know what happens in the future, but if you change the past you'll break everything". Thus they didn't want to chance messing with the future by getting involved too soon. Just speculating, so idk.
Also, maybe they wanted to get involved sooner, but the Eye was too powerful in its current state to let them do anything. One of the Psijics had to physically travel to the College because just being close to it was blocking their ability to appear to the player, until they made their way to Mzulft.
The Psijic order guy did say that other members thought him communicating with the dragonborn was an offense. It could have been internal affairs and Ancano forced them to act. That's the best explanation I can think of.
Yeah seems more like the psijics told their new intern not to mess eith the events, but the new guy was like bruh but thats wrong. And at the end they were like alright fine but since they know about us now we gotta take the orb.
Plus, it would be strange for the College of Winterhold not to have some kind of magical defenses to keep other magical orders from coming and going as they please. They're suspicious of their fellow members trying to steal their research. Why wouldn't they be even more suspicious of outside magical orders trying to do the same? I find it hard to believe that there wouldn't be *any* kind of magical wards around the College to prevent outsiders just popping in and taking whatever they please.
It always seemed to me that they couldn't take the sphere because they were essentially dealing with a time paradox ... he said "events have been set in motion ... but there may be a way to stop it" .... it's almost like it had to happen all the way up to ancano (my personal favourite theory is that this is what causes the great collapse) and their ability to change/help matters was limited to the small cryptic hints they gave out ...
Heavy lifting? Do you refer to the tons of loot she's hauled around at the dragonborn's behest, or the nearly as voluminous count of arrows in the back she's still got sticking in her because she just won't stay out of the line of fire? I swear, every other shot, she deliberately dives in the way...
I noticed the Honningbrew plot hole myself, but my own head canon is that the mead in the cask on the counter was simply tainted by the skeevers. You arrive too late to poison that particular batch before it was dispensed from the vat, but it was toxic anyway. Sabjorn was too late himself in dealing with the problem and his mead was already dirty.
@@KarmasAB123 - That's entirely plausible. Mallus doesn't seem like the sharpest tool in the shed and Mavis is halfway across the province. It might have been the best plan they could cook up, but it's quite likely it didn't quite work as intended and you simply back into a lucky break so that it looks like it did.
If you see several people in dark clothes sneaking in and out of the woods at night, and suspect them of being violent types, are you gonna take that to your corrupt shit bird of a Jarl, or quietly try and keep to yourself and hope you don’t draw their ire?
Simple really, the provinces are scaled down. Skyrim is a lot bigger than the game would have you believe. The brotherhood is much further away from falkreath than you'd think
The Dark Botherhood base is known, I would guess they do know and noticed. Admit it though, would you be one who confronts them over it? And you do know that some guards do know of Dark Botherhood in Skyrim, as does Thieves Guild, so someone probably getting a payout.
I like to imagine that any attempts resulted in people sent dying, so the locals kind of just stopped trying since the DB isn't outright hostile to them.
@@turkepic3637 The Draugr were from the time when Dragons ruled the world. I believe that the ones that know shouts that you fight are supposed to be the Nords that rose up against the dragons and used the shouts to fight them and Alduin. This means that they probably are far older than before. Though this could be explained as serana pulling your leg and all but i doubt that
@@aquilaofdeath7660 well she is surprised an empire based out of cyrodil existed. One existed in 1e 243 so its 100 percent possible she was alive during the dragon war
Hey Nate, I don't know if you noticed this, but at approximately 1:15 and 4:21, into this video, there is a headless bikini clad Mjoll The Lioness hovering past, in the background.
The Sybille one is pretty simple to explain: the Jarls of Solitude have protected her. She’s obviously very important to the family and it would be highly unlikely that they wouldn’t have figured out she’s a vampire. They probably just pay off or threaten anyone who figures it out in order to keep her around
Yeah, I assumed it was something of an open secret, at least among the Jarl's (first Torrygg, then Elisif) inner circle. Over the years she became powerful, but she also aided the family, so as long as she stays in line and is of aide to the Jarl, she's welcome.
On the whole Eye of Magnus thing, three words: preserving the timeline. Something further in the future they wanted to happen required the events in the quest line to occur, at least that's my rationalization.
My guess is a cut part of the quest that involves time-travel and you doing something in the past that needed doing to maintain continuity, which got swapped for the resolution we're stuck with.
Before Ancano's power play, Quaranir says, "My presence here will be seen as an affront to some within the Order." At that point in the storyline, the Psijic Order didn't have a consensus that intervention was called for.
They could also be observing the movements of the thalmor or other related events happening elsewhere. Had the order taken it right off the bat, they may have lost vital information about what the thalmor are planning overall.
@@overlorddante "Psijic report; Thalmor Methodology; 4E202/02/12 (Turdas): Research at the College of Winterhold confirms that the Thalmor are less a political order and more a collection of power-mad rogues with no respect for the rule of law or the lives of what they deem 'lesser races'. This marks the twelfth such study, out of a total of twelve, to reach this conclusion, and causes wonderment and befuddlement in the minds of the authors regarding why, exactly, the Psijic Order's leadership can't simply accept that we are dealing with a pack of racist cave trolls with no guiding principles beyond their own personal betterment. See attached citations."
The cut College questline was apparently to have involved your discovery of the Eye causing the Great Collapse through some weird reality issues, and you would spend time undoing this and reversing the Great Collapse which was caused in the past by an event that would not happen till the future which became the present and it SUCKS that they never finished this and gave us this weird thing that can barely be called a quest line at all.
For the Eye of Magnus fight, you have to use the Staff of Magnus on the Eye to disable it. I like to think that reduced the power of the Eye so the Psijic order could move it. But maybe I'm giving Bethesda's writers too much credit.
People forget that the Psijic Order also said that they cannot directly intervene in the events that you started, you must finish it, and only then will they help. That’s when they take the eye of magnus
For me the Psijic order always made sense. The member that interacts with you mentions that his order does not usually interfere directly. He also mentioned constantly that the world was not ready for the eye. So once Ancano acted, that proved the psijics correct. However they were unable to take the eye while Ancano was using it. Either his use of the eye made it impossible, or that was still counted as directly interfering. Or perhaps removing it while it was being used would be too dangerous. Once you defeat Ancano, the Psijics can safely remove the eye within the bound of their orders law. To make a long story short, the Psijics weren’t allowed to act under their orders laws until Ancano proved the eye would be abused, and then was stopped so the order could safely take the eye away. I mean that’s how I naturally justified it. Not saying that’s how it was written to be. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
It's always how I justified it as well. I just considered the monks an order that stuck way too close to their own rulebook (almost like modern day public servants), leading to them not being able to stop a serious evil from happening. They're pathetic, but it at least explains why they did what they did.
@@NolenGYT Except that here, nobody's claiming that the Psijics are all-knowing, all-powerful, and completely benevolent. I find those claims about a god to be absurd... but about an order of mages (known for stubbornness and bigheadedness) with strict bureaucracy and millennia-old internal policies? Makes perfect sense to me.
@@evanabney3659 I mean to be fair also people are complaining about the Psijic Order not taking the Eye soon enough. But, technically they weren't obligated to help anyway. The player would have been completely caught off guard and had very little information when attempting to deal with aftermath though. Would have been even more trouble too. Of course another question rings in my mind. Why was Acrano a Advisor to begin with? Everyone is highly suspicious of him. A rouge student/instructor would have made more sense to be honest.
The psijic monk mentions that there's some infighting going on, and that some will be angry he's even speaking to you. My guess is that internal politics are what kept the psijic order from being especially active in the quest
I know, I have not played that questline in eight years and still that was pretty clear for me. He made it pretty clear he was not even supposed to be talking to you several times, perhaps he then managed to persuade the rest of the order that they should keep the eye and that is why they later appear to collect it.
Or maybe because they probably didn't like the greed of those from the college of winterhold and let them stole just to see everyone involved eventually dying except the dragonborn, they are pacifists and let those guys kill themselves without get their hands dirty
Keep in mind that during the first contact with the guy from the Psijic Order (in Saarthal) he mentions that the Dragonborn has _"set in motion a chain of events that cannot be stopped."_ Judging based on this dialogue, he seems to imply that there is a specific desired outcome to the whole ordeal with the Eye of Magnus and that the Psijics have already seen the multiple outcomes through some form of foresight into the future. One could speculate that Ancano had to die before things got REALLY out of hand (Ancano would have most likely continued to seek ultimate power if he were still alive), and the only way to remove him from history is to let him start unraveling the Eye in order to be slain by the Dragonborn. The Psijic guy also talks about how the Order will make judgement based on our actions, meaning that they are prepared for an alternate future in which the Dragonborn fails along the way (be it they die, commit selfish acts, join Ancano, etc.) So the whole thing regarding the Winterhold questline isn't that bad like people are complaining, but is more like the story is incomplete and a lot of details have been omitted which would have solidified the story.
I seem to recall someone commenting on her unusually high magical ability, even for a Breton. It may be they assume she is using magic and alchemy. The age of the Blades woman, can’t recall her name for the life of her right now, also seems young for the age of her stories. It seems she’d have had to have been pretty young when the blades were taken down several decades ago, but talks like she was a seasoned Blade by that time. Sure, she hasn’t been front and center of a Hold’s court but still struck me as a bit off.
@@IAmTheRealBill I hope I'm not misremembering, but I think one of the books you pick up in the thalmor embassy states that she's around fifty-something. But I'm not sure, been a long time since I last did that mission.
I always assumed Serana was asleep during the Dragon War cause Dunehvar went to the Soul Cairn during that time to find help/knowledge and since was trapped guarding Valerica. Serana was put to sleep before her mother went to the Cairn.
We don't know what Dunehvar was doing that entire time. I doubt he was guarding Valerica the entire time either. Plus, it seems fairly reasonable that time would pass differently in the Soul Cairn than in Mundus. There's also the fact that the ability to distinguish how long you've been there is going to be rather difficult as there's no real day or night cycle.
"What you learn here can last you a life time-- several, if you're talented." -Savos Aren. Mages can drastically extend their life through magic. For example, Divayth Fyr is/was 4000 years old. That's impossible for a Dunmer, usually. High Elves can only live about 1000 years if they're lucky, and they're the longest living race on Tamriel. A powerful mage, only about 80-ish years old looking 30? Not that shocking. Nobody questioning it is probably influenced by the Nord's superstitions about magic.
Have to agree with Dampened Spirits. Every time I do that quest my immediate thought is why not poison the barrel right there and thus keep the perfectly good vat for later sales...
@@whitewolf3051 No you can't. How could you possibly fail that quest? Maybe you were wondering if the related NPCs could be killed. I think they're all essential
Wouldn't she have been around when they disappeared then? Isolated she might have been, but the disappearance of a race 'might' have become a topic of conversation in a few thousand years?
I think that Serana's conflicting informations might actually be related to how Dragon Breaks work. She could very well have seen the Dwemer walking around before her "bedtime", but due to _Weird Time Fuckery™_ they've been vanished from time, even retroactively. Maybe this is one of those instances where the "mistakes" where actually intentional, conscious choices?
Next video idea: "5 things you may have missed in my '5 things you may have missed' videos." Put the 1:20 chick in as an honourable mention because this is a different kind of list.
Hey, Nate. Here's an idea for the Psijic order. They're like the Jedi Order. They are passive and inactive to a hostile situation until they absolutely NEED to intervene.
For that last one: kind of obvious it's trying to imply there was an unstated passage of time between us poisoning the mead, and it being brought to the guards, not that it was already poisoned. Could they have shown it better by having him come to get the mead after we tampered with it, or him and the guards enter to taste from the source? Yes, but they cheaped out and just had there be an unseen, unstated passage of time.
Yeah, it would just have been nice to add a few more lines of dialogue after you go back to Sabjorn to collect your reward: Dovahkiin: "I have placed the poison in the skeever nests." Sabjorn: "Great job; just in time, too. Tomorrow I am holding a tasting for the captain of the guard, commander Caius. How about you join us?" [Objective: Return to honningbrew meadery to watch the plan unfold] Having to wait for a day for quest progression was a very common thing in Oblivion and I feel like a few quests in Skyrim would have benefitted from taking the passage of time into account.
Serana could've been sleeping since before the battle of the red mountain, had she the odd and quite charming quirk of adressing dark elves as "chimer"
That in itself would be a plothole, though, because I don't recall her ever being surprised that the chimer, who were known for their golden skin, now bear ashen skin and bloodred eyes. She might have been alive before the chimer became the dunmer, but she must be aware of the change the chimer went through, otherwise she would not be able to identify a dunmer as a chimer.
On sybelle. Mages can live several lifetimes unchanged ex. Fallion, Wulfarth the undying, Savros Aren, and Tolfdir. As a matter of fact its one of the first things that The Archmage says to the player. SO a long lived young looking wizard...It happens
@@dxmixnj6583 Wood Elves live normal human years, Dark Elves 200 years, and High Elves 1,000 years if they don't get sick or injured if they are a powerful mage they can live for much longer, example is Mannimarco.
That's what I thought too. Most people in Skyrim are ignorant about magic. If anybody asks how she stays young, it would be easy for her too pretend she uses spells to stay young. It would fool everyone except maybe other wizards, and I think other wizards are less likely to care about her being a vampire anyway.
@@dagothur2666 err Mannimarco is his own can of worms he is a very confusing character who A. Is a necromancer so if he is immortal he has acheived it in a non standard way and B. Is a High elven mage plus C. Has ties with the Psyjic order well historical ones anyways he really doesn't represent anyone else very well he is a very complicated character who walked a very non standard path of magic
The one about Bran-Shei isn't necessarily a plot hole. The family could've still nearly fallen to ruin at some point and his father truly believing that all was lost could've fled to Skyrim thinking Bran was actually the last living heir but then instead of completely collapsing the family was somehow able to recover.
Neloth is a magister in Morrowind aswell, implying that there wasnt any moment between the third game and the fifth game, where House Telvanni fell into ruin.
It mentioned several times during the eye of magnus and psyjic order quest that there is a split in the group. There are those who don't want to get involved with the rest of the world and those who want to help you. They might want to limit as much interaction with the outside world as possible but the unseen effects of the eye forced their hand.
Biggest plot hole in Skyrim: How come if I literally take off all my clothes, drop them on the floor and then eat 500 loafs of bread in the middle of a town *NO ONE* says anything... HOW CRAZY IS THIS PLACE REALLY?!
The kids might start laughing at you for being naked. And the guards might complain about your littering or ask if they can take that armor you dropped.
I did that and there's this one guy in solitude who said "can a have the clothes you drop?" And I said yes but after I came back 10 days in game time the clothes are still there. Lol
Dragons, zombies, demons, gods, vampires, werewolf, werebears, elf's, dragon born, magic, giants, mammoths, skeletons, dragon priests, giant spiders, blind elf's, ghosts, and giant robots, I dont think a naked guy eating bread is much if a concern
The one with the honningbrew meadery is easy to explain if you went back through the Skever den It would make more sense that the mead served was the poisoned one instead of leaving through the front door of the mead distiller house
I remember the psygic dude saying in the first time he contacted the dragonborn that the rest of the order didn't want him to interfere... Then after the questline they take the orb having realized how dangerous it is in the wrong hands. Just my interpretation anyway
Psijic order usually doesn't wanna directly deal with any of Tamriels problems. They have a monk like lifestyle. Where they spend most of their days worshipping the Aedra. It's not at all a plot hole. I just think nate needed to fill a slot in the video.
I hadn’t realized that they literally wrote the same backstory for two guys in the same town, Brand-Shei and Rune are both guys who were found as a baby being the lone survivor of a massive shipwreck and were adopted by those who found them and were given odd names and who both wish desperately to learn about their parents and family. I wonder if Riften has a local support group for these very specific kinds of guys
concerning the mead thing, i always just think to myself: well Maven didn't know me very well, so maybe she hired multiple people to poison the mead and i was just not the first to succeed."
Or they rose back to power because isn't it like 200 years between the shipwreck and you finding and giving the journal to him. So alot could have changed in 200 years.
Or the writer of the book believe that the Telvani was destroyed and not know he didn’t see the hole picture of what happen. From what he saw and experience, he jump to the conclusion that they were wiped out.
The Eye of Magnus was under a sealing spell before the questline started, possible that the seal conceal the location or the nature of the Eye. Psjics might have some form of cryptic vision but not the whole clear overview of what will happen so they are also quite unsure of the future. They are not omniscent. They do not intervene so they let things unfold, with the exception of this one, this event might cause global catasthrope. They took the Eye because it became unstable and the college of winterhold cannot do anything to stop it so they took it away for the meantime. If it hadnt been unstable I think they wouldnt move it away. It feels like nuke about to explode. They cant just take the eye away from the start, it is a nordic artifact discovered by the college, it might cause complications and they might get suspected for hoarding magical artifacts. They have no rights to it, therefore they didnt make any move, also last time the snow elves coveted the eye things didnt went well for them. Hope this all answer your questions.
Late to the party I know but there is a theory that the eye of Magnus is what caused the great collapse, the psychic order know about it because it already happened but theybjad to wait until the right moment to interrupt the sequence of events and prevent total disaster without destroying the whole timeline ... the original quest line was speculated to have been much longer and reveal much more of this ...
@@jodiejackson3089 From what I read and hear ingame, the great collapse was or is an after effect of the dwarves tampering with the heart of lorkhan also known as "The eruption of red mountain". All sources doesnt specify nor point any significance or link to the eye and Great collapse as the Night of Tears happen ages before it, all it talks about was Ysgrammor's backstory, simply put, it's been sleeping all this time.
@@jodiejackson3089 Night of tears happened in the late Merethic while the Great collapse happened in the fourth Era (4E 122). To get a better grasp how long the gap between the 2 events heres a list of era. Dawn era Merethic era - Night of tears First era - 2920 years Second era - 896 years Third era - 433 years Fourth era - currently at 4E 201, Great Collpse 4E 122
Late comment but ultimately the Psijic Order doesn't interfere directly unless if something gets really bad like world ending bad. If they told Savos Aren or anyone besides Acrano that they were taking the Eye of Magnus due to danger. They wouldn't have raised a fuss. The College of Winterhold had influence from the order prior and they are looked at in high regard. Considering how fast they showed up to take the orb I am assuming that they were waiting for justification (interfering directly is looked down on by members of the order) and testing to see if the world was ready for such of artifact. But, yes they are not omniscient. As for who sealed it probably some ancient Nordic mages considering the location.
@@Hawaiian_Pizza_Enjoyer yeah, that is a problem. it should've been that you can only notice the eyes if you are vampire yourself. i'm not a game programmer, so i don't know how hard that would be, but it doesn't seem too difficult to pull off.
Thomas Jenkins it probably isn’t. They could have assigned vampirism the same effect of aura whisper but only for entities within unbroken fov and the effect would only apply to the eyes
For Sybille, I just thought that everyone important in the Blue Palace know, but don't care since she has proved herself long ago. Tho they have to keep a low profile for outsiders (Not sure the vigilants of Stendarr or the Dawnguard would like that)
For Brand-Shei the only thing i can think of is that his father honestly thought that house telvanni was gone in the chaos and destruction of the red mountain, fleeing and dying not knowing he was wrong
I figured people at Bethesda weren't privy how alcohol is actually made and just figured big barrels would be good enough. To be fair, the nords might prefer their alcohol warmed, and this is a popular brewery with a tap room that rivals the bars at the major city inns, it could just be a dedicated vat on minimal heat dedicated to warming the mead for visitors rather than for the the brewing process.
@Cú i'm thinking the mead keg was already poisoned but you were there to poison the rest so it would seem like the meadery was just being negligent with all of the mead
The other thing about the meadery quest is how the poisoning wasn't linked back to the Dragonborn. He stands there stating he doesn't know how it got poisoned, directly after sending this wandering stranger alone throughout his property with poison.
Imagine Brand Shei going to Solstheim and meeting Neloth who reveals his recently discovered heritage is a lie. Not only does that place Brand Shei back at square one, but also it would make him wonder even more who his parents were and why his father believed they were the last Telvanni.
Delphine...how she got the Horn of Jurgen Windcaller? The Dragonborn must - clear up cave full of Draugrs and spell casters - using shout to open up the gates - avoid traps and spiders Maybe Delphine can get passed all the enemies and traps, but she sure can't get pass the gates that the only way to pass it is by using shout.
The most glaring plot hole of plot holes... it's why I recommend Not So Fast - Main Quest. It actually stops that bullshit and forces her to find another way to get your attention.
I mean, she and the Greybeards seem to know each other. We know others have visited and learned to harness the voice yet we never see them shout. It's possible Delphine learned a shout.
In "Dampened Spirits" you were likely meant to return through the tunnel, giving Sabjorn enough time to fill the sampling barrel full of fresh mead and return
Could also be the usual game limitations of how characters and assets get there. Happens in many games, a character telling you to meet them somewhere, never being encountered on the path or heading the wrong way to start, yet already being there no matter how quick you move, or going ahead and disappearing as soon as they're off screen. While Skyrim does its best to avoid this, having some characters physically walk to a destination if you walk there and warp there if you fast travel, there are still limitations in such a situation, since to have it happen properly would require the player to wait for him to head over to collect more mead and bring it back, either by teleporting him to the door to enter, pick an animation to look like he's collecting the mead, then walk back to make the player wait the least amount of time, or making the player wait through him walking from his usual spot over, taking even longer to head over. I mean, think about it. You never see him nor any merchant actually do anything to replenish stocks, closest being seeing some blacksmith merchants use the forge but never replenish the materials they'd be using. So just like having Lucan have his wares, go to bed, and reopen shop with drastically different wares, its meant to be implied that he did get more mead and you just don't get to see it
My theory about why the psijics didn't take the artifact: Clearly they can see the future to at least some extent given that they warn you about events unfolding, so perhaps they recognized some level of causality that they needed to contact you in that moment so that the events surrounding the eye would play out in a specific way in order for the future to be set along the proper path.
@@davidhatcher7016 Ok it is a complicated Matter and added to the lor after the elder scrolls 2 Daggerfall. In the end of this game the Player has a choice that has huge impacts over how history will go on (it is whom to give the Bras Tower Numidium to) so by the time of TES 3 Morrowind, Bethesda had to think of a solution how all 3 of your choices can be canon. So the invented the dragon break. Whenever a kataclysmic event is happening, time (or Akatosh, dragon god of time) will step in and create several timelines and collabse them into one. Which is making all of them true and fals at the same time, canceling out the world ending event. I know Not quite the easiest topic but I hope I was able to help you understand. If bot watch Camel Works or Fudgemuppets videos on the topic :)
5 лет назад+8
They are not plot holes, but "surprise contradictions"
I don't think it's the dragonborn they want Archmage but a new one in general, if Oblivion is anything to go on, considering that he had some shady dealings in the past.
Also, the order doesn’t like to get involved (partially) because they want to avoid any hostilities that may threaten their existence, so if they took the eye without the college wanting it gone, it may have warranted retaliation. To them, avoiding the chance for conflict is well worth a couple of lives that would’ve died anyway.
Serana may have literally just never found out Dwemer are gone simply due to ignorance but still know about dark elves from just meeting them like the last time she may have entered dwemer ruins being before they poofed Edit: It's also confirmed due to there being a single dwemer in Morrowind not all Dwemer poofed
my guess about number 5: the game assumes you leave for a while after poisoning the mead.... which would make it believeable that the guards drink the poisoned mead
the fermentation process for alcohol making in general takes a lot of time. like at least a few days, (plausible in a video game with time passing mechanics) but usually actually a few months in the real world
They could've easily fixed this by saying "come back in a few days" or something and then let the quest continue or something. Would've made a whole lot more sense tbh.
@@whitewolf3051 Is there a way to fail at anything in skyrim besides dying? (except the "get the horn from some nord" quest for the greybeards, which you can't influence either)
For the Eye of Magnus questline, I’m guessing Ancano was always watching the eye. Savos Aren somewhat trusts him. They wouldn’t be able to move the eye until that trust is broken, or Ancano dies.
It's not a plothole but.. If there's one thing that makes no sense it's that I, (Nazeem) am not the hardest end boss there is.. It seems that I am just too powerful for the Dragonborn. (S)He'd lose instantly. Do you get to the cloud district very often? Oh, what am I saying.. Of course you don't.
Nazeem, you are easily the most satisfying 1000 gold to cost me when I hit Whiterun... though I suppose waiting until thanehood makes more sense... one free kill card.
I just wanna know if my boy Janus Hassildor is still kickin' out there around this time. Probably not as Count of Skingrad, but not like in a bad way or anything.
For the poisoned mead, There's also Mallus suddenly being present when he wasn't there to kill the rats earlier. I assumed they just didn't bother explaining things. Mallus poisoned the keg. But if only the keg were poisoned, his boss, Sabjorn, would soon blame Mallus and be released from prision. However, later testing showed poison in the vats in a room only Sabjorn could enter, "proving" to the investigators that it was Sabjorn who was responsible for the poisoning of the guards. Therefor Mallus could go from temporarily in charge while it was being sorted out, to officially in charge for good.
What still confuses me about the eye of magnus is its name. When you get summoned to the archmage's office by ancano because theres a psijic there, the psijic will note that "our people" have taken to calling the orb "the eye of magnus". This is before we even hear of the augur of dunlain, who is the one to tell us that it's even connected to magnus at all. Beyond that, the EYE part is very convenient for the line "to see through the eye of magnus, you will need his staff." The only plausible explanation I can think of is that ancano named it as such, since he is the only one confirmed to have visited the Augur recently. So a random advisor decides out of nowhere to refer to a massive floating orb as "the eye of magnus" and no one seems to mind?
For the brewery quest line I came up with my own solution to the problem. Since my character was a master Smithy and enchanter, I crafted myself a pair of gauntlets that gave me a near-perfect sneak skill. I then snuck my way through the underground tunnel to the brewery vat, poisoned it, proceeded back down into the lower level of the brewery. At this point I massacred the spider and skeever population, bumped off Hamelin, and waited 24 hours before poisoning the skeever nest. My figuring is this gave the poisoned Mead plenty of time to brew, and to ready to be served to the guards by the time I came back. it is true that I could have massacred the skeever and Hamlin before poisoning the Mead vat, but I was playing as a high elf, and he would want to test his new gauntlets with the largest sample size possible.
The problem is that nobody seems to notice or care that this one woman has been the court wizard for decades and still looks in her 20s after all of it. Like, they're all ok with an obvious vampire wandering around with the rumors of her sadistic behavior. No one notices that she's a vampire, no one comments, no one cares.
@@DelinquentChibi The archmage says that what you learn could last you a life time, or several on some cases, and the librarian if I'm not wrong is 800 years old
Or perhaps the Psijic Order chose not to/couldn't interfere with events. As well, the Eye they state interferes with their own magical abilities. A combination of these is certainly not out of the question. The Psijic mage did also clearly state that, "Events have been set into motion that cannot be stopped."
In ESO, the psijics state over and over that they don't interfere unless it's absolutely necessary. They purposefully distance themselves from civilization.
I would like to think that they let things get out of hand so when they do take it no one complains. If they just took it both the empire and the aldmeri dominion would use all their resources to hunt down the psijic order.
I'd say that the order didn't take the eye because of the amount of factors associated with the dragonborn. With our eventual success against alduin, use of the elder scrolls, becoming the champion of many deadra.... They couldn't see which eventuality would happen because we were at the center of the happenings. There were probably points where having the eye at the college was fine or the use of the elder scrolls did something to the eye, or a god opened it.... We just so happened to head in the direction of destruction and again with our influence they could tell that we were not the ones to lead the college to watch the eye.... Maybe.
Because he doesn't age. He doesn't even get taller. It's a common misconception but when you seem him next to other characters he's the same size. Any other visual change is just for the audience. Only change that other characters notice is his personality and confidence. As for his voice, that's a dubbing "mistake." In the original Japanese version (of Duel Monsters) the difference between Yugi's and Atem's voices are subtler. THE MORE YOU KNOW.
Oblivion gives us a possible explanation for the sybille stentor plotline. The count of Skingrad is a vampire and is known to the authorities but is tolerated because he is a powerful ally. It's entirely possible that the court of Solitude is aware of the situation but does nothing because of the advantages of having Stentor on their side.
Exactly. That's also why they don't bat an eye when the dragonborn is a vampire, because they need the dragonborn. The dragonborn is the reason skyrim isn't completely ruled by dragons.
With the Honningbrew Meade thing, I think that it's implied that you return through the tunnels rather than the front door. So it's more of an issue with story scripting than anything really.
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
The real mystery is how the hell did they get the Eye of Magnus through the door?
They put it in their inventory and took it out in that room.
easy... using pokeballs
Magic?
They yeeted it through the ceiling
Magic n shit
I like to think the Brand-Shei plot hole isn't really a plot hole at all, rather it's a statement on the sheer carnage Morrowind endured in such a short amount of time, it's possible Brand-Shei's parents thought their great house was wiped out when they fled, which isn't a big leap when you look at what was going on at the time, it kinda adds to the tragedy that if his parents just stayed in Morrowind and rode out the storm, they wouldn't have been killed in a literal storm while fleeing to Skyrim.
Or from a Bad House?
That or neloth is just deluded and in denial.
@@blindtreeman8052 I mean, Neloth was around to see Dagoth Ur defeated by the Nerevarine... he's REALLY old. Probably has to get dementia at some point.
I think Brand-shei is the heir to the Telvanni Family - not the heir to House Telvanni as a political faction.
@@Rip.van.winkle4 No, I'm thinking of Neloth. In Morrowind, if you join Telvanni then he becomes your patron. Though I am curious what happened to Divayth Fir.
Personally, i like the theory that *that* batch of Honningbrew mead tasted _so bad_ that the guard _thought_ he was being poisoned.
the funny thing is this little slip up could be fixed by a little modification, like having the player actually fill up a barrel of the poisoned mead and carrying it to the other building and setting it in place, and then the player sits down just to watch the guards walk through the door for the taste testing.
and done, just like there was no mistake at all.
@Brandon Quist
i guess at that point the player can leave the mission for a while after he dumped the stuff and walk in and you can immersivity assume that the guy got the sample himself when you weren't looking, then the narrative makes sense, sort of.
@@5226-p1e lol while thats a smart way to think, thats just you pretending it took longer.
@@isaacramos1942
so what i was talking about with this idea was adding in a modification through mod magic to fix this little questionable quest design.
there are plenty of mods that help fix little issues in this game all the time.
The way you italicized those words to show emphasis makes me irrationally angry.
Another plothole is how Delphine got Jurgen Windcaller horn without the whirlwind sprint shout
Couldn't that just be done with two people?
i did it just by sprinting during my first ever run :D
She took the back way.
She just placed rocks or whatever on the pressure plates
Oh shi- YEAH! Well.. she COULD have had help, but there doesn’t seem to be anyone that is in assistance with her, besides Esbern, and he’s hidden away, so.. yeah, I call plothole.
M'aiq has many plot holes, none are easily seen by most.
The biggest pot holes are found in dawnguard when those two dragons surface from the frozen lake. Oh you said plot holes my bad.
I see you and nazeem on every video
@@reverandswanson6352 M'aiq is essential and Nazeem is novelty, so..
Get outta here M'aiq lol
I don't care if M'aiq has a million plot holes. I'm always happy when I cross paths with this lovely individual. I wish I could make him a follower.
Solution to Brand-Shei: He isn't the last living member of Clan Telvanni, he's the last person in line to become the leader of the clan. Similarly to Clan Arthur of Scotland in the real world (the last chief died without an heir, leaving the clan leaderless for two centuries), the clan continues to exist. Lynden Telvanni's diary is, in short, the opinion of Lynden Telvanni (I.E. what HE thinks is going on), and the moment you permit the possibility that Lynden is only saying what he knows and believes, then doesn't necessarily contradict anything Neloth says.
So he considered only his line worthy to inherit, but other clan members continue to exist? That seems reasonable.
Yeah, something like this. There's a political entity House Telvanni. And then there's the original leading noble family of that house that it's named after. Brand-Shei is the last heir of that noble family. Political entity is still around, noble family is gone.
Telvanni leadership isnt based in lineage though. In Morrowind you either get all the magisters to agree to make you the leader, or you kill the ones who oppose you.
Telvanni isn't a clan that's filled with just members of a single family. It's one of the Houses where anyone can join from whole families to lone individuals to even non-dunmers as long as they prove themselves. Telvanni is also a special one where you're allowed to kill other members to rise through the ranks and the only way to be their Archmagister in-game is to kill the current one.
I guess a better explanation to this is someone at Bethesda screwed up with the journal. The father's last name is TENvanni, so he was probably meant to be talking about his own clan or family Tenvanni being wiped out, not the whole House Telvanni.
@@orangesilver8 That’s not how the great houses work there are multiple Telvanani Councilers in morrowind play the game
An easy explanation for Sybille Stentor's lack of ageing bothering anyone is a quote from Savos Aren, Arch Mage of The College of Winterhold.
"What you learn here will last you a lifetime - several, if you're talented."
―Savos Aren
This shows that magic can be used to extend one's life, giving Stentor an excuse for being so young.
yep oldest human ever that we know of was 274 and he wasn't dead yet
Also, don’t elves have a naturally longer life span?
@@thescoundrel793 Sybille Stentor isn't an elf, she's a Breton. Longest of the human lives but not as long as elves.
@@Zoper1409 Actualy bretons have similar or shorter lifespans than the other humans not longer
@@wolves600 My mistake, I just assumed they inherited their lifespan along with their magical intuition from their Mer side.
1:20 headless naked floating guard, you have too many mods insulted (edit:installed) don’t you
Also at 4:20 lmao
Beat me to it 😢
Hahahahaha
M'aiq likes this one
U don hav to main englishes insulted dew u?
i always figured serana’s dwarven comment was more of a, “it’s weird to see such big, advanced cities be so empty” type comment- like she knew there were no more dwarves, but it didn’t strike her as “real” until seeing it with her own eyes, if that makes sense?
i think she didn't give a fuck about dwemers
and she doesn't know who they are
she knows of them just by rumors maybe
@@KujiraFEl this is something a lot of fans see as plot holes in several franchises that aren’t exactly plot holes.
How much do you or I know about every missing ancient civilization? It’s not that weird that a character doesn’t know things that are important to us as the player.
@@lifotheparty6195 this is exactly the same thing i said
Yea, it could also be a combination of the shock of really seeing it along with the shock that they still haven't come back. The dwarves are incredibly intelligent, if they wanted to find a way back to mundus its shocking that they havent yet.
1:19
When the realistic skin mod isn't working
Thank YOU!!! Haha, I didn't think anyone else noticed when this 1st video dropped
Hahaha hahaha omg
I'm so glad I'm not the only one who noticed the Headless Guardsman.
Lmao thanks, I didn't even see that x
I know it’s the mod but i’m gonna pretend that this was a bethesda thing
It is possible that Brand Shei's father thought the Telvani were all dead.
or that they were all dead and that a distant cousin or something took over once the crisis was over. most people in those morrowind family are added into it not born into it.
Pretty much all of these make sense in some way
Another possibility is some split in the family at some point where both families considered themselves to be the "true" one.
It is 400 years later
Yeah he could have just not known about Neoloth, because if you get to the end of Neoloths questline it pretty heavilly implies that Neoloth is one of the last Telvani and has to rebuild.
Plot hole fixed: the official quote says that serana went to sleep in the second era before the septim dynasty. is should be taken into account that she lived long before that and in isolation. this could explain the fact that she was surprised not to find the dwemer. So basically, she knew of the dwemer's existence but not the fact they had disappeared. I do not know the exact date but it could have been that the disappearance if the Dwemer was not revealed to the rest of the world until after she went to sleep.
But if we go by the timeline of the First and Second Eras there are a few thousand years between the disappearance of the Dwemer at the Battle of Red Mountain in the year 700 of the First Era and the beginning of the Second Era. The First Era lasts almost 3000 years, ending with the fall of the Reman Empire. That is a long period of time for this secret to have been kept from the rest of the world, especially since Dwemer ruins are so common in Morrowind and Skyrim.
Or harkon just didn't bother to tell his isolated daughter
i think it's easier to explain this detail through the one who created the prophecy was a snow elf who became a vampire during a point in time when the snow elf's were still within the landscape before the dwemer took them in.
so i don't think the 2nd era makes much sense in this case, the writer gave some conflicting information that suggests theory rather than truth.
to get to the heart of the story, you have to go back to the beginning.
i was thinking it might be just this lol
@@JJ_-fp9sj yeah this seems like a likely explanation to me, even when still awake Serana was sequestered in a remote castle that likely didn't get a lot of visitors. It doesn't seem at all implausible that the disappearance of the Dwemer simply didn't come up.
I found a weird plot-hole which is to do with the main quest, the dragonborn is supposed to defeat dragons and save skyrim, however is unable to do this because he has about 300 mods installed and crashes at the start of his quest
He crashes so early that he doesn't even let Ralof start his dialogue on the cart.
Mortal Salvez sad to say that is accurate
@@Ecl1p5e-MM8BDM my ralof talks on the cart, but the cart is god knows where, flipping around indiscriminately.
@@thomasjenkins7506 surprising that's the one plothole in this thread not caused by mods
@Dshay Martian What
Great House Telvanni is likely a different entity from the mainline Telvanni family. Seeing as Neloth isn’t assigned a last name, and Brelyna is a Maryon, what we can assume is that the political entity of Great House Telvanni; that being a collection of loosely related mage clans, continues. Meanwhile, Brand-Shei could be the last able to legitimately bear the last name Telvanni.
Yeah exactly, in the main quest of Morrowind it is possible to join House Telvanni but i don't think any members of the house council are actual members of the family Telvanni.
I had the same thought. I'd have to read the journal again to be sure. And maybe play Morrowind again. :)
It could also be the case that the person writing in the journal believes him to be the final heir, and is just an unreliable narrator.
But I do like that distinction as well. Kind of like how house Hlalu was disbanded, but there's still a Dunmer family in Windhelm with that last name.
The houses are based on clans and tribes. That means that while kinship is a key point of the great houses it is not impossible to join one.
Telvanni especially are liars, slavers and backstabbers so in the event of a catastrophe it is not unlikely that they turn on eachother. In Oblivion theres even a rumor that house Telvanni is trying to push back the invaders but it is not going well.
As for Neloth he kidnapped, stole, lied and had others assassinated even as far back as Morrowind so his ego is probably telling him he is the greatest person to ever walk the earth and that he lies to make others believe him.
Additionally, when Neloth makes you a member of house Telvanni in the dragonborn DLC he specifically says that doesn't mean much anymore but will again in a few years. Implying house Telvanni is at least massively diminished.
Vampires don't age, and I always thought it was kind of an open secret that Sybille Stentor was a vampire, not really surprising that nobody is phased by it imo
Seems pretty easy to explain in a world with magic. When you get to the college, Savos Aren says, "What you learn here will last a lifetime. Several if you are talented." Expanded lifespans are not uncommon for magical users, and Sybil is widely renowned for being an accomplished wizard. It seems reasonable that they just believed she artificially extended her life.
@@MistaOppritunity the guards or certain characters mention Sybille doing horrible things to the prisoners
the cook talks about how he never sees her eat
@@banegas0411 This is true, however these are people in or close to the royal court who know to keep their god damn mouth shut. It is believable that anyone who hasn't noticed it would believe she has artificially extended her life with magic.
Same.
She has the glowing eyes, and from the way the executioner talks about her, it sounds like he knows and is just being vague.
You can become a vampire at an older age
“Ancano kills countless students and teacher.”
Ancano: **kills two people**
Jonathan Mattson I’m bad at counting
I'm with Nate in this one. since Skyrim it's pretty much a representation of a bigger population. when Ancano release the magical anomalies into winterhold. in theory the casualties of the attack on winterhold are going to be high.
I know it sounds like a pretext.. but that is my honest feeling on how Bethesda is going to manage the story going forward ;)
elfdrow But he said specifically teachers and students
TheEpicNate315 Lol it’s good, I just found that kinda funny
@@sly4164 umm you do have a point.
sorry Nate he won by TKO XD
"What you learn here will last you a lifetime. Several, if you're talented." -Savos Aren, Archmage of Winterhold
He's pretty much saying outright that powerful wizards have access to magic that slows down their aging dramatically. It would be really easy for Sybille to claim that's what she's using to appear younger than her true age.
Not to mention that Sybille's nature might be somewhat of an open secret in the Court itself at least, but she's tolerated anyways due to her long history with the rulers and her powerful magical skills, just as long as she can keep her thirst to those nobody will miss.
In regards to the Psijics, maybe their plan went beyond just trying to save Tamriel. A personal theory is that they deliberately let the events play out the way they did, perhaps to drive home some sort of warning for the College that they need to be more careful with the divine artifacts they unearth, or perhaps even to deliberately mix up the hierarchy of the College and get the Dragonborn in power for reasons known only to themselves. Basically the Psijics are illuminati confirmed
Hell, if you have Dawnguard installed she gets the appearance changes vampires got as part of the DLC.
I wouldn't consider the Auger to be "alive" in the same sense, kind of like how some ghosts are completely sentient and aware. I think theres more to that implication than just extending the life of a physical body.
Theory: Serana didn't explore dwemer cities, and since she was isolated, she didnt have the chance to hear about the strange event
Yagrum Bagarn (Morrowind) he is the last known dremer to be seen in morrowind which takes place in the 3rd era
The Dwemer were dead and gone well before Serana was even born. It’s a stupid plot hole for a tacked on story arc.
You speak so definitively for a group of writers that can't even keep their complexity in check. Good on you for knowing better than creators who love leaving us PUZZLES to figure out.
@@tackogronday What
@@jonathanwells223
No, you are wrong, we don't know how old was Serana when she went to sleep, she probably was already hundreds of years old before her endless slumber begun.
10 Tiny Details You might’ve missed: in case you didn’t know, if you kill a Dragon with Esbern around, he’ll comment on you taking the dragons soul
M'aiq is a giant plot hole, how does M'aiq live for thousands of years? Is M'aiq a god?
M'aiq The Liar is a god
Maybe he is a god
He’s a ghoul Khajiit
It's because of all the callipers I bet
M'aiq is secretly lorkhan in disguise, tricking mortals into believing false facts.
Sybille was born on a leap year BAM THEORY OVER!
february 29th specifically
I like how hate doesn't even mention the fact that there is a half naked headless woman floating around 1:20 and in 4:21
The real Biggest Plot Hole...
i thought that was normal in skyrim ;)
lol I missed that
at some point you just get used to it ya know
ikr
when i first did that Honningbrew thieves guild quest i had that same thought and when Mallus was like "great job bro you're awesome" or whatever i literally said out loud "dude that's not what i poisoned, Sabjorn's mead is just that shit."
Right? I was wondering why you even needed to bother poisoning the mead in the first place if it's so shit that the guards think they've been poisoned when it's just the normal old mead. If you're being beaten back by mead like that, I feel true and boundless sorrow for the people of Skyrim and their poor tastebuds.
In my mind it's not a plot hole and it's just a touch of irony; you poison the mead being produced, but unknown the the Blackbriar family this made no difference because the increasingly poor hygiene standards at the other meadery already caused the Honningbrew mead to be undrinkable. The place is full of rats after all
In the Eye of Magnus storyline, the Order makes it clear they avoid getting involved in things; the first guy who contacts you says that some in his Order believe even the warning is too far. It's not until AFTER a crisis happens that the rest of the Order is convinced to help.
Was I about to comment this also,
@@spadeworksproduction great minds think alike i was about to type that
I'd also say that since they knew what was going to happen, there's also a chance they couldn't get involved. Sort of that trope of "you know what happens in the future, but if you change the past you'll break everything". Thus they didn't want to chance messing with the future by getting involved too soon. Just speculating, so idk.
Also, maybe they wanted to get involved sooner, but the Eye was too powerful in its current state to let them do anything. One of the Psijics had to physically travel to the College because just being close to it was blocking their ability to appear to the player, until they made their way to Mzulft.
The Psijic order guy did say that other members thought him communicating with the dragonborn was an offense. It could have been internal affairs and Ancano forced them to act. That's the best explanation I can think of.
They maybe wanted Ancano to weaken or active it for them
Yeah seems more like the psijics told their new intern not to mess eith the events, but the new guy was like bruh but thats wrong. And at the end they were like alright fine but since they know about us now we gotta take the orb.
Plus, it would be strange for the College of Winterhold not to have some kind of magical defenses to keep other magical orders from coming and going as they please. They're suspicious of their fellow members trying to steal their research. Why wouldn't they be even more suspicious of outside magical orders trying to do the same? I find it hard to believe that there wouldn't be *any* kind of magical wards around the College to prevent outsiders just popping in and taking whatever they please.
It always seemed to me that they couldn't take the sphere because they were essentially dealing with a time paradox ... he said "events have been set in motion ... but there may be a way to stop it" .... it's almost like it had to happen all the way up to ancano (my personal favourite theory is that this is what causes the great collapse) and their ability to change/help matters was limited to the small cryptic hints they gave out ...
My favourite plot hole is how i'm the hero everyone has heard off when lydia did all the heavy lifting.
She is sworn to carry your burdens.
Heavy lifting? Do you refer to the tons of loot she's hauled around at the dragonborn's behest, or the nearly as voluminous count of arrows in the back she's still got sticking in her because she just won't stay out of the line of fire? I swear, every other shot, she deliberately dives in the way...
She is also the best bouncer ever no one gets in the door.
Or out the door
Litterally i mean those 8 sets of daedric armour are heavy
I noticed the Honningbrew plot hole myself, but my own head canon is that the mead in the cask on the counter was simply tainted by the skeevers. You arrive too late to poison that particular batch before it was dispensed from the vat, but it was toxic anyway. Sabjorn was too late himself in dealing with the problem and his mead was already dirty.
But is that's the case, Mallus still set you up with a plan that doesn't work and just lucked out.
@@KarmasAB123 - That's entirely plausible. Mallus doesn't seem like the sharpest tool in the shed and Mavis is halfway across the province. It might have been the best plan they could cook up, but it's quite likely it didn't quite work as intended and you simply back into a lucky break so that it looks like it did.
Do the people of Falkreath not notice the random people emerging from the forest, in dark armor, or do they just not care?
If you see several people in dark clothes sneaking in and out of the woods at night, and suspect them of being violent types, are you gonna take that to your corrupt shit bird of a Jarl, or quietly try and keep to yourself and hope you don’t draw their ire?
Simple really, the provinces are scaled down. Skyrim is a lot bigger than the game would have you believe. The brotherhood is much further away from falkreath than you'd think
The Dark Botherhood base is known, I would guess they do know and noticed. Admit it though, would you be one who confronts them over it? And you do know that some guards do know of Dark Botherhood in Skyrim, as does Thieves Guild, so someone probably getting a payout.
I like to imagine they don’t give a shit and it became like an annoying inside joke among the residents.
I like to imagine that any attempts resulted in people sent dying, so the locals kind of just stopped trying since the DB isn't outright hostile to them.
With serana, she also makes comments about the draugr and remembering them alive.
Well that breaks the fucking game.
@@azearaazymoto461 why
@@turkepic3637 The Draugr were from the time when Dragons ruled the world. I believe that the ones that know shouts that you fight are supposed to be the Nords that rose up against the dragons and used the shouts to fight them and Alduin. This means that they probably are far older than before. Though this could be explained as serana pulling your leg and all but i doubt that
@@aquilaofdeath7660 well she is surprised an empire based out of cyrodil existed. One existed in 1e 243 so its 100 percent possible she was alive during the dragon war
@@aquilaofdeath7660 g
Hey Nate, I don't know if you noticed this, but at approximately 1:15 and 4:21, into this video, there is a headless bikini clad Mjoll The Lioness hovering past, in the background.
that's hilarious
Hahahajhahaha yes
Glad Im not the only one who saw that
I was about to say it
lmao. Creepy taste, nate. But you do you!
The Sybille one is pretty simple to explain: the Jarls of Solitude have protected her. She’s obviously very important to the family and it would be highly unlikely that they wouldn’t have figured out she’s a vampire. They probably just pay off or threaten anyone who figures it out in order to keep her around
Not like good vampires being tolerated is unheard of, we already know about the Count of Skingrad from Oblivion
@@battlesheep2552 Ah, yes...Count Janus Hassildor of Skingrad. He believes a thank you is in order.
Or people assume her magic is keeping her young
Yeah, I assumed it was something of an open secret, at least among the Jarl's (first Torrygg, then Elisif) inner circle. Over the years she became powerful, but she also aided the family, so as long as she stays in line and is of aide to the Jarl, she's welcome.
On the whole Eye of Magnus thing, three words: preserving the timeline. Something further in the future they wanted to happen required the events in the quest line to occur, at least that's my rationalization.
My guess is a cut part of the quest that involves time-travel and you doing something in the past that needed doing to maintain continuity, which got swapped for the resolution we're stuck with.
Before Ancano's power play, Quaranir says, "My presence here will be seen as an affront to some within the Order." At that point in the storyline, the Psijic Order didn't have a consensus that intervention was called for.
They could also be observing the movements of the thalmor or other related events happening elsewhere. Had the order taken it right off the bat, they may have lost vital information about what the thalmor are planning overall.
@@overlorddante "Psijic report; Thalmor Methodology; 4E202/02/12 (Turdas): Research at the College of Winterhold confirms that the Thalmor are less a political order and more a collection of power-mad rogues with no respect for the rule of law or the lives of what they deem 'lesser races'. This marks the twelfth such study, out of a total of twelve, to reach this conclusion, and causes wonderment and befuddlement in the minds of the authors regarding why, exactly, the Psijic Order's leadership can't simply accept that we are dealing with a pack of racist cave trolls with no guiding principles beyond their own personal betterment. See attached citations."
The cut College questline was apparently to have involved your discovery of the Eye causing the Great Collapse through some weird reality issues, and you would spend time undoing this and reversing the Great Collapse which was caused in the past by an event that would not happen till the future which became the present and it SUCKS that they never finished this and gave us this weird thing that can barely be called a quest line at all.
The psyijic order didn’t want to pay to teleport, and were looking for a wayshrine the whole time
To skyrim? 😂
That'd cost 30 crowns
Cringe
For the Eye of Magnus fight, you have to use the Staff of Magnus on the Eye to disable it. I like to think that reduced the power of the Eye so the Psijic order could move it.
But maybe I'm giving Bethesda's writers too much credit.
the college of winterhold managed to move it without the staff
Anything more than acknowledging that the story somehow managed to stumble through the quality check is giving them too much credit
@@C.Dickey not as far though
@@C.Dickey i suppose there's a difference between removing the eye of magnus from this world than to simply relocating it somewhere close
People forget that the Psijic Order also said that they cannot directly intervene in the events that you started, you must finish it, and only then will they help. That’s when they take the eye of magnus
1:18. Look in the background
Hahaha omg didn't notice the headless t-pose, ty!
Too much moon sugar
What? I don't see anything
Oh nvm
Also at 4:20
For me the Psijic order always made sense. The member that interacts with you mentions that his order does not usually interfere directly. He also mentioned constantly that the world was not ready for the eye. So once Ancano acted, that proved the psijics correct. However they were unable to take the eye while Ancano was using it. Either his use of the eye made it impossible, or that was still counted as directly interfering. Or perhaps removing it while it was being used would be too dangerous. Once you defeat Ancano, the Psijics can safely remove the eye within the bound of their orders law.
To make a long story short, the Psijics weren’t allowed to act under their orders laws until Ancano proved the eye would be abused, and then was stopped so the order could safely take the eye away.
I mean that’s how I naturally justified it. Not saying that’s how it was written to be. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Horrible explanation. Reminds me of the type of cope Christians use to justify their God allowing people to suffer.
It's always how I justified it as well. I just considered the monks an order that stuck way too close to their own rulebook (almost like modern day public servants), leading to them not being able to stop a serious evil from happening. They're pathetic, but it at least explains why they did what they did.
I like your theory because it justifies my hated for the Thalmor. That, and it makes sense, and when tested by Occams Razor, it holds water.
@@NolenGYT Except that here, nobody's claiming that the Psijics are all-knowing, all-powerful, and completely benevolent. I find those claims about a god to be absurd... but about an order of mages (known for stubbornness and bigheadedness) with strict bureaucracy and millennia-old internal policies? Makes perfect sense to me.
@@evanabney3659 I mean to be fair also people are complaining about the Psijic Order not taking the Eye soon enough. But, technically they weren't obligated to help anyway. The player would have been completely caught off guard and had very little information when attempting to deal with aftermath though. Would have been even more trouble too.
Of course another question rings in my mind. Why was Acrano a Advisor to begin with? Everyone is highly suspicious of him. A rouge student/instructor would have made more sense to be honest.
The psijic monk mentions that there's some infighting going on, and that some will be angry he's even speaking to you. My guess is that internal politics are what kept the psijic order from being especially active in the quest
I know, I have not played that questline in eight years and still that was pretty clear for me. He made it pretty clear he was not even supposed to be talking to you several times, perhaps he then managed to persuade the rest of the order that they should keep the eye and that is why they later appear to collect it.
Or maybe because they probably didn't like the greed of those from the college of winterhold and let them stole just to see everyone involved eventually dying except the dragonborn, they are pacifists and let those guys kill themselves without get their hands dirty
Keep in mind that during the first contact with the guy from the Psijic Order (in Saarthal) he mentions that the Dragonborn has _"set in motion a chain of events that cannot be stopped."_ Judging based on this dialogue, he seems to imply that there is a specific desired outcome to the whole ordeal with the Eye of Magnus and that the Psijics have already seen the multiple outcomes through some form of foresight into the future. One could speculate that Ancano had to die before things got REALLY out of hand (Ancano would have most likely continued to seek ultimate power if he were still alive), and the only way to remove him from history is to let him start unraveling the Eye in order to be slain by the Dragonborn. The Psijic guy also talks about how the Order will make judgement based on our actions, meaning that they are prepared for an alternate future in which the Dragonborn fails along the way (be it they die, commit selfish acts, join Ancano, etc.) So the whole thing regarding the Winterhold questline isn't that bad like people are complaining, but is more like the story is incomplete and a lot of details have been omitted which would have solidified the story.
@@kalsyphr5039 Yeah, really wish you could join Ancano or something by becoming thalmor as an high elf or something.
Yes but they could've just gone into Saartahl and take the thing out without having to interact with a single living human.
Witcher 3: solve the murder quest by asking questions
Skyrim: solve the murder quest by ignoring wuunferth's self incriminating lie
I think Serana is more surprised that even after thousands of years the Dwarves are still gone. She probably figured they'd be back
What's happening in the background at 1:20 ? Whoever was able to save that lady definitely had some mad restoration skills y'all.
Restoration 1000
was looking for this comment lmao
"How is that wizard still alive?"
"Her grandmother was an elf"
even worse than a vampire then
Shartin Mart tea
I seem to recall someone commenting on her unusually high magical ability, even for a Breton. It may be they assume she is using magic and alchemy. The age of the Blades woman, can’t recall her name for the life of her right now, also seems young for the age of her stories. It seems she’d have had to have been pretty young when the blades were taken down several decades ago, but talks like she was a seasoned Blade by that time. Sure, she hasn’t been front and center of a Hold’s court but still struck me as a bit off.
@@IAmTheRealBill I hope I'm not misremembering, but I think one of the books you pick up in the thalmor embassy states that she's around fifty-something. But I'm not sure, been a long time since I last did that mission.
@@Katepuzzilein It states she's in her 50s. It says esbern is in his 70s yet he's running to Sky Haven Temple lol
I always assumed Serana was asleep during the Dragon War cause Dunehvar went to the Soul Cairn during that time to find help/knowledge and since was trapped guarding Valerica. Serana was put to sleep before her mother went to the Cairn.
We don't know what Dunehvar was doing that entire time. I doubt he was guarding Valerica the entire time either. Plus, it seems fairly reasonable that time would pass differently in the Soul Cairn than in Mundus. There's also the fact that the ability to distinguish how long you've been there is going to be rather difficult as there's no real day or night cycle.
@@SadisticSenpai61 True, time flows different in Oblivion Realms. But still seems to indicate he was there since the First Era/Dragon War.
It's Durnehviir. Just saying.
1:21 hey uh is that supposed to be there
😂😂😂😂 I was listening to the video so I didn't even notice it. 😂😂😂
Ghosts do exist
Oh my Odin I went back and saw it the second time
ah yes, the elusive decapitated, naked, floating guard.
truly a beautiful specimen.
"What you learn here can last you a life time-- several, if you're talented." -Savos Aren. Mages can drastically extend their life through magic. For example, Divayth Fyr is/was 4000 years old. That's impossible for a Dunmer, usually. High Elves can only live about 1000 years if they're lucky, and they're the longest living race on Tamriel. A powerful mage, only about 80-ish years old looking 30? Not that shocking. Nobody questioning it is probably influenced by the Nord's superstitions about magic.
Have to agree with Dampened Spirits. Every time I do that quest my immediate thought is why not poison the barrel right there and thus keep the perfectly good vat for later sales...
I think the guys just a retard and accidentally poisoned his own mead anyway
The mead was already poisoned, but Mallus wanted you to get rid of that Skeever lord Hamelyn 🤣
i just left it as head cannon that the guy under the meadery was the one who actually poisoned the mead.
Out of curiosity, can a person fail the thieves guild mead quest? If so, how can one fail the quest?
@@whitewolf3051 No you can't. How could you possibly fail that quest? Maybe you were wondering if the related NPCs could be killed. I think they're all essential
I always assumed Mallus had tampered with the barrel the captain of the guard drinks from
The Serena one isn't a plothole because she could've been born when the dwemer were around and went to sleep in the second era
That's a good point. I vaguely remember reading that humans didn't realize the Dwemer had vanished until the middle of the Second Era
There is also the possibility of her being a very sheltered child(?) Which would make sense
Yeah she hardly ever got to leave the castle so her perception of the outside world would probably come from books and tales mostly
Wouldn't she have been around when they disappeared then? Isolated she might have been, but the disappearance of a race 'might' have become a topic of conversation in a few thousand years?
Maybe she was surprised that they're STILL gone
I think that Serana's conflicting informations might actually be related to how Dragon Breaks work. She could very well have seen the Dwemer walking around before her "bedtime", but due to _Weird Time Fuckery™_ they've been vanished from time, even retroactively. Maybe this is one of those instances where the "mistakes" where actually intentional, conscious choices?
The most egregious part of the college of winter hold questline is that you can't pickpocket those sweet psjjic monk robes.
Console commands and mods exist
@@WasLilChrisnowbigish yeah I know I just wonder why things like that were left out of the base game y'know?
Personally think the college of winterhold story would have been better if you got to join the psijics in someway
@@williamrees4747 agreed.
@@williamrees4747 but they only accept high elves, the only exception was one mage of the Tribunal of Morrowind, Sothacil I think
Next video idea:
"5 things you may have missed in my '5 things you may have missed' videos."
Put the 1:20 chick in as an honourable mention because this is a different kind of list.
Hey, Nate. Here's an idea for the Psijic order. They're like the Jedi Order. They are passive and inactive to a hostile situation until they absolutely NEED to intervene.
The fact that Jarl Ballin' never beat Ulfric in a dance off
S W A G
Holler if u need me
AROOOOOOOO
Scorge haters gonna hate
Why is the doom slayer drinking coffee isn't he supposed to be getting ass fucked by hayden
For that last one: kind of obvious it's trying to imply there was an unstated passage of time between us poisoning the mead, and it being brought to the guards, not that it was already poisoned. Could they have shown it better by having him come to get the mead after we tampered with it, or him and the guards enter to taste from the source? Yes, but they cheaped out and just had there be an unseen, unstated passage of time.
same with the solstheim thing, how did the cultists get there so fast?! pissed me off.
Yeah, it would just have been nice to add a few more lines of dialogue after you go back to Sabjorn to collect your reward:
Dovahkiin: "I have placed the poison in the skeever nests."
Sabjorn: "Great job; just in time, too. Tomorrow I am holding a tasting for the captain of the guard, commander Caius. How about you join us?"
[Objective: Return to honningbrew meadery to watch the plan unfold]
Having to wait for a day for quest progression was a very common thing in Oblivion and I feel like a few quests in Skyrim would have benefitted from taking the passage of time into account.
Serana could've been sleeping since before the battle of the red mountain, had she the odd and quite charming quirk of adressing dark elves as "chimer"
That in itself would be a plothole, though, because I don't recall her ever being surprised that the chimer, who were known for their golden skin, now bear ashen skin and bloodred eyes. She might have been alive before the chimer became the dunmer, but she must be aware of the change the chimer went through, otherwise she would not be able to identify a dunmer as a chimer.
Even if that were the case she wouldn't even recognise them as Chimer as they looked completely different to Dunmer
On sybelle. Mages can live several lifetimes unchanged ex. Fallion, Wulfarth the undying, Savros Aren, and Tolfdir.
As a matter of fact its one of the first things that The Archmage says to the player.
SO a long lived young looking wizard...It happens
Well most of them are elves...which can live over 200 years
@@dxmixnj6583
Wood Elves live normal human years, Dark Elves 200 years, and High Elves 1,000 years if they don't get sick or injured if they are a powerful mage they can live for much longer, example is Mannimarco.
Falloio, Tolfdir, and Wulfarth are human
That's what I thought too. Most people in Skyrim are ignorant about magic. If anybody asks how she stays young, it would be easy for her too pretend she uses spells to stay young. It would fool everyone except maybe other wizards, and I think other wizards are less likely to care about her being a vampire anyway.
@@dagothur2666 err Mannimarco is his own can of worms he is a very confusing character who A. Is a necromancer so if he is immortal he has acheived it in a non standard way and B. Is a High elven mage plus C. Has ties with the Psyjic order well historical ones anyways he really doesn't represent anyone else very well he is a very complicated character who walked a very non standard path of magic
The one about Bran-Shei isn't necessarily a plot hole. The family could've still nearly fallen to ruin at some point and his father truly believing that all was lost could've fled to Skyrim thinking Bran was actually the last living heir but then instead of completely collapsing the family was somehow able to recover.
I guess but telvanni doesnt even have heirs. Anyone can climb the ranks and become the head wizard of theyre powerful enough
Neloth is a magister in Morrowind aswell, implying that there wasnt any moment between the third game and the fifth game, where House Telvanni fell into ruin.
It mentioned several times during the eye of magnus and psyjic order quest that there is a split in the group. There are those who don't want to get involved with the rest of the world and those who want to help you. They might want to limit as much interaction with the outside world as possible but the unseen effects of the eye forced their hand.
Did anyone else notice the naked t posed headless woman in background?
I was about to say the same thing
Could get a timestamp?.. for research purposes naturally
Rory Donaldson uh, yes, timestamp pls
@@rorydonaldson2794 1:20 and 4:20 both times behind Bran
1:20
Biggest plot hole in Skyrim:
How come if I literally take off all my clothes, drop them on the floor and then eat 500 loafs of bread in the middle of a town *NO ONE* says anything... HOW CRAZY IS THIS PLACE REALLY?!
The kids might start laughing at you for being naked. And the guards might complain about your littering or ask if they can take that armor you dropped.
@@SirConto I remember being yelled at by a guard for dropping an iron sword I didn't want.
I did that and there's this one guy in solitude who said "can a have the clothes you drop?" And I said yes but after I came back 10 days in game time the clothes are still there. Lol
Dragons, zombies, demons, gods, vampires, werewolf, werebears, elf's, dragon born, magic, giants, mammoths, skeletons, dragon priests, giant spiders, blind elf's, ghosts, and giant robots, I dont think a naked guy eating bread is much if a concern
ThatGuyMilk how bout stealing pants off someone wearing them
The one with the honningbrew meadery is easy to explain if you went back through the Skever den It would make more sense that the mead served was the poisoned one instead of leaving through the front door of the mead distiller house
Hilarious? The frequency of your visits to the cloud district
Nazeem do you see your wife very often? Oh what am I saying of course you don’t
Do you live through a normal Skyrim playthrough very often? Oh what am I saying, I make damn sure you don’t.
@@bullyrag OOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
Indentity thief. I am the original Nazeem. You stole the idea of being a god.
Nazeem faker or not it changes nothing
I remember the psygic dude saying in the first time he contacted the dragonborn that the rest of the order didn't want him to interfere... Then after the questline they take the orb having realized how dangerous it is in the wrong hands. Just my interpretation anyway
Psijic order usually doesn't wanna directly deal with any of Tamriels problems. They have a monk like lifestyle. Where they spend most of their days worshipping the Aedra.
It's not at all a plot hole. I just think nate needed to fill a slot in the video.
@@turtleshell6391 no it still doesn't make sense bc the psijics can literally see the future.
I hadn’t realized that they literally wrote the same backstory for two guys in the same town, Brand-Shei and Rune are both guys who were found as a baby being the lone survivor of a massive shipwreck and were adopted by those who found them and were given odd names and who both wish desperately to learn about their parents and family. I wonder if Riften has a local support group for these very specific kinds of guys
well, Riften has the orphanage of Skyrim... so there is that.
concerning the mead thing, i always just think to myself: well Maven didn't know me very well, so maybe she hired multiple people to poison the mead and i was just not the first to succeed."
Mallus poisoned the cask, and had the Dragonborn poison the vat to cover his tracks!
The Telvani plot hole can be patched with a quick story about a family losing, then regaining their status due to some Game of Thrones-style scheming.
How and why is the player supposed to assume that instead of dismissing Neloth as crazy and Bethesda writers as objectively retarded?
Or they rose back to power because isn't it like 200 years between the shipwreck and you finding and giving the journal to him. So alot could have changed in 200 years.
Or the writer of the book believe that the Telvani was destroyed and not know he didn’t see the hole picture of what happen. From what he saw and experience, he jump to the conclusion that they were wiped out.
The Eye of Magnus was under a sealing spell before the questline started, possible that the seal conceal the location or the nature of the Eye.
Psjics might have some form of cryptic vision but not the whole clear overview of what will happen so they are also quite unsure of the future. They are not omniscent.
They do not intervene so they let things unfold, with the exception of this one, this event might cause global catasthrope.
They took the Eye because it became unstable and the college of winterhold cannot do anything to stop it so they took it away for the meantime. If it hadnt been unstable I think they wouldnt move it away. It feels like nuke about to explode.
They cant just take the eye away from the start, it is a nordic artifact discovered by the college, it might cause complications and they might get suspected for hoarding magical artifacts. They have no rights to it, therefore they didnt make any move, also last time the snow elves coveted the eye things didnt went well for them.
Hope this all answer your questions.
Late to the party I know but there is a theory that the eye of Magnus is what caused the great collapse, the psychic order know about it because it already happened but theybjad to wait until the right moment to interrupt the sequence of events and prevent total disaster without destroying the whole timeline ... the original quest line was speculated to have been much longer and reveal much more of this ...
@@jodiejackson3089 From what I read and hear ingame, the great collapse was or is an after effect of the dwarves tampering with the heart of lorkhan also known as "The eruption of red mountain".
All sources doesnt specify nor point any significance or link to the eye and Great collapse as the Night of Tears happen ages before it, all it talks about was Ysgrammor's backstory, simply put, it's been sleeping all this time.
@@beauvsb5230 I thought that all took place 100 years or more before the great collapse ... little bit "curse of king tut" isnt it??
@@jodiejackson3089 Night of tears happened in the late Merethic while the Great collapse happened in the fourth Era (4E 122). To get a better grasp how long the gap between the 2 events heres a list of era.
Dawn era
Merethic era - Night of tears
First era - 2920 years
Second era - 896 years
Third era - 433 years
Fourth era - currently at 4E 201, Great Collpse 4E 122
Late comment but ultimately the Psijic Order doesn't interfere directly unless if something gets really bad like world ending bad. If they told Savos Aren or anyone besides Acrano that they were taking the Eye of Magnus due to danger. They wouldn't have raised a fuss. The College of Winterhold had influence from the order prior and they are looked at in high regard. Considering how fast they showed up to take the orb I am assuming that they were waiting for justification (interfering directly is looked down on by members of the order) and testing to see if the world was ready for such of artifact.
But, yes they are not omniscient. As for who sealed it probably some ancient Nordic mages considering the location.
Sybille Stentor is a vampire. If you have Dawnguard installed her eyes glow
and she's been "influencing" the court for years.
The fact that vampires started to be painfully obvious with the Dawnguard DLC is a plot hole in and of itself
@@Hawaiian_Pizza_Enjoyer yeah, that is a problem. it should've been that you can only notice the eyes if you are vampire yourself.
i'm not a game programmer, so i don't know how hard that would be, but it doesn't seem too difficult to pull off.
Thomas Jenkins it probably isn’t. They could have assigned vampirism the same effect of aura whisper but only for entities within unbroken fov and the effect would only apply to the eyes
She also doesn’t glow with a detect life spell, but she does with detect dead. Food for thought.
For Sybille, I just thought that everyone important in the Blue Palace know, but don't care since she has proved herself long ago. Tho they have to keep a low profile for outsiders (Not sure the vigilants of Stendarr or the Dawnguard would like that)
You can murder her and nobody cares
She is the smartest person in that palace. Probably one of the smartest people in Skyrim, really.
@@Umbra_Ursus thats not very hard to be the smartest person outside of the collage of winterhold
or she knows to much
For Brand-Shei the only thing i can think of is that his father honestly thought that house telvanni was gone in the chaos and destruction of the red mountain, fleeing and dying not knowing he was wrong
I just figured the mead was rancid due to the whole skeever problem.
Clear Sky Guardian I mean, it’s fermented honey beer, technically it’s already rancid lol
Well, honey is bee vomit. Fermented vomit is still vomit.
I figured people at Bethesda weren't privy how alcohol is actually made and just figured big barrels would be good enough. To be fair, the nords might prefer their alcohol warmed, and this is a popular brewery with a tap room that rivals the bars at the major city inns, it could just be a dedicated vat on minimal heat dedicated to warming the mead for visitors rather than for the the brewing process.
or it can just be a bad batch of meed
@Cú i'm thinking the mead keg was already poisoned but you were there to poison the rest so it would seem like the meadery was just being negligent with all of the mead
The other thing about the meadery quest is how the poisoning wasn't linked back to the Dragonborn. He stands there stating he doesn't know how it got poisoned, directly after sending this wandering stranger alone throughout his property with poison.
Imagine Brand Shei going to Solstheim and meeting Neloth who reveals his recently discovered heritage is a lie. Not only does that place Brand Shei back at square one, but also it would make him wonder even more who his parents were and why his father believed they were the last Telvanni.
Delphine...how she got the Horn of Jurgen Windcaller? The Dragonborn must
- clear up cave full of Draugrs and spell casters
- using shout to open up the gates
- avoid traps and spiders
Maybe Delphine can get passed all the enemies and traps, but she sure can't get pass the gates that the only way to pass it is by using shout.
maybe she snuck in through the back
@@poopydoopy3313 the secret door can only be opened from inside
@@MizanQistina yeah nevermind idk how she did it
The most glaring plot hole of plot holes... it's why I recommend Not So Fast - Main Quest. It actually stops that bullshit and forces her to find another way to get your attention.
I mean, she and the Greybeards seem to know each other. We know others have visited and learned to harness the voice yet we never see them shout. It's possible Delphine learned a shout.
In "Dampened Spirits" you were likely meant to return through the tunnel, giving Sabjorn enough time to fill the sampling barrel full of fresh mead and return
Okay but why would anyone when the door is right there lol
@@fightingfaerie last second change would take too long to fix
Could also be the usual game limitations of how characters and assets get there. Happens in many games, a character telling you to meet them somewhere, never being encountered on the path or heading the wrong way to start, yet already being there no matter how quick you move, or going ahead and disappearing as soon as they're off screen.
While Skyrim does its best to avoid this, having some characters physically walk to a destination if you walk there and warp there if you fast travel, there are still limitations in such a situation, since to have it happen properly would require the player to wait for him to head over to collect more mead and bring it back, either by teleporting him to the door to enter, pick an animation to look like he's collecting the mead, then walk back to make the player wait the least amount of time, or making the player wait through him walking from his usual spot over, taking even longer to head over.
I mean, think about it. You never see him nor any merchant actually do anything to replenish stocks, closest being seeing some blacksmith merchants use the forge but never replenish the materials they'd be using. So just like having Lucan have his wares, go to bed, and reopen shop with drastically different wares, its meant to be implied that he did get more mead and you just don't get to see it
Not to mention mead is a fermented drink that takes like a month or more of sitting in a dark room to be made
Or Mallus who works for Maven dealt with the barrel inside the meadery while we got the rest for when the guards do an inspection
My theory about why the psijics didn't take the artifact: Clearly they can see the future to at least some extent given that they warn you about events unfolding, so perhaps they recognized some level of causality that they needed to contact you in that moment so that the events surrounding the eye would play out in a specific way in order for the future to be set along the proper path.
They're not plot holes, they're dragon breaks.
huh?
@@davidhatcher7016 I guess you don't know what a dragon break is?
@@darkessinzero yes
@@davidhatcher7016 Ok it is a complicated Matter and added to the lor after the elder scrolls 2 Daggerfall.
In the end of this game the Player has a choice that has huge impacts over how history will go on (it is whom to give the Bras Tower Numidium to) so by the time of TES 3 Morrowind, Bethesda had to think of a solution how all 3 of your choices can be canon. So the invented the dragon break.
Whenever a kataclysmic event is happening, time (or Akatosh, dragon god of time) will step in and create several timelines and collabse them into one. Which is making all of them true and fals at the same time, canceling out the world ending event.
I know Not quite the easiest topic but I hope I was able to help you understand. If bot watch Camel Works or Fudgemuppets videos on the topic :)
They are not plot holes, but "surprise contradictions"
The 4th plot hole might actually not be one. Perhaps the Psijic Order wanted the Dragonborn to become archmage for some kind of plan.
I don't think it's the dragonborn they want Archmage but a new one in general, if Oblivion is anything to go on, considering that he had some shady dealings in the past.
Also, the order doesn’t like to get involved (partially) because they want to avoid any hostilities that may threaten their existence, so if they took the eye without the college wanting it gone, it may have warranted retaliation. To them, avoiding the chance for conflict is well worth a couple of lives that would’ve died anyway.
Isn't it also possible that because their teleporting a gigantic magical orb into another dimension it takes a while to do the magic ritual
@@danschreimann215 or it is quick but inter-dimensional lag caused it to take forever
Serana may have literally just never found out Dwemer are gone simply due to ignorance but still know about dark elves from just meeting them like the last time she may have entered dwemer ruins being before they poofed
Edit: It's also confirmed due to there being a single dwemer in Morrowind not all Dwemer poofed
1:20 in... WTF is up with the headless warrior-lady in the background?! LMAO!
my guess about number 5: the game assumes you leave for a while after poisoning the mead.... which would make it believeable that the guards drink the poisoned mead
I always go back the way I came. Takes more time, but immersion wise; I feel it makes more sense...?
the fermentation process for alcohol making in general takes a lot of time. like at least a few days, (plausible in a video game with time passing mechanics) but usually actually a few months in the real world
They could've easily fixed this by saying "come back in a few days" or something and then let the quest continue or something. Would've made a whole lot more sense tbh.
Is there a way to fail the quest?
@@whitewolf3051 Is there a way to fail at anything in skyrim besides dying? (except the "get the horn from some nord" quest for the greybeards, which you can't influence either)
For the Eye of Magnus questline, I’m guessing Ancano was always watching the eye. Savos Aren somewhat trusts him. They wouldn’t be able to move the eye until that trust is broken, or Ancano dies.
It's not a plothole but.. If there's one thing that makes no sense it's that I, (Nazeem) am not the hardest end boss there is.. It seems that I am just too powerful for the Dragonborn. (S)He'd lose instantly.
Do you get to the cloud district very often? Oh, what am I saying.. Of course you don't.
You were sealed by the power of m'aiq the cloud visitor
No, Nazeem, I do not get to the Cloud district very often, I'm too busy being thane of all of Skyrim.
Nazeem, you are easily the most satisfying 1000 gold to cost me when I hit Whiterun... though I suppose waiting until thanehood makes more sense... one free kill card.
Fuck off Nazeem
Aaaand into the sky you go...
Aaaand welcome back to Tamriel, by gods you really bounced!
In reference to Sybile, powerful mages in The Elder Scrolls universe are known to have a longer life span, if they are powerful enough.
I always just took the whole poisoned mead debacle, as there being a hidden cut scene? Like in movies? So it never bothered me.
I just wanna know if my boy Janus Hassildor is still kickin' out there around this time. Probably not as Count of Skingrad, but not like in a bad way or anything.
He's pretty cool, he saved my from necromancer on a rainy night before.
That's one spooky headless guards woman gliding in the background at 1:20...
For the poisoned mead, There's also Mallus suddenly being present when he wasn't there to kill the rats earlier.
I assumed they just didn't bother explaining things.
Mallus poisoned the keg. But if only the keg were poisoned, his boss, Sabjorn, would soon blame Mallus and be released from prision.
However, later testing showed poison in the vats in a room only Sabjorn could enter, "proving" to the investigators that it was Sabjorn who was responsible for the poisoning of the guards. Therefor Mallus could go from temporarily in charge while it was being sorted out, to officially in charge for good.
What still confuses me about the eye of magnus is its name. When you get summoned to the archmage's office by ancano because theres a psijic there, the psijic will note that "our people" have taken to calling the orb "the eye of magnus". This is before we even hear of the augur of dunlain, who is the one to tell us that it's even connected to magnus at all. Beyond that, the EYE part is very convenient for the line "to see through the eye of magnus, you will need his staff." The only plausible explanation I can think of is that ancano named it as such, since he is the only one confirmed to have visited the Augur recently. So a random advisor decides out of nowhere to refer to a massive floating orb as "the eye of magnus" and no one seems to mind?
For the brewery quest line I came up with my own solution to the problem. Since my character was a master Smithy and enchanter, I crafted myself a pair of gauntlets that gave me a near-perfect sneak skill. I then snuck my way through the underground tunnel to the brewery vat, poisoned it, proceeded back down into the lower level of the brewery. At this point I massacred the spider and skeever population, bumped off Hamelin, and waited 24 hours before poisoning the skeever nest. My figuring is this gave the poisoned Mead plenty of time to brew, and to ready to be served to the guards by the time I came back.
it is true that I could have massacred the skeever and Hamlin before poisoning the Mead vat, but I was playing as a high elf, and he would want to test his new gauntlets with the largest sample size possible.
Bethesda watching this:
“write that down , write that down!”
the court wizard has always been a vampire when you install the dawnguard DLC her eyes glow like the rest of the vampires it's obvious
The problem is that nobody seems to notice or care that this one woman has been the court wizard for decades and still looks in her 20s after all of it. Like, they're all ok with an obvious vampire wandering around with the rumors of her sadistic behavior. No one notices that she's a vampire, no one comments, no one cares.
@@DelinquentChibi Some of the dialogue in the college of winterhold seens to imply that expert mages live longer than normal humans or elves
@@areacua95 Really? I've never noticed that before. I'll have to keep my ears open for some of that dialogue.
@@DelinquentChibi The archmage says that what you learn could last you a life time, or several on some cases, and the librarian if I'm not wrong is 800 years old
@@areacua95 that's expected if you know how to use amazing magic LOL
Or perhaps the Psijic Order chose not to/couldn't interfere with events. As well, the Eye they state interferes with their own magical abilities. A combination of these is certainly not out of the question.
The Psijic mage did also clearly state that, "Events have been set into motion that cannot be stopped."
In ESO, the psijics state over and over that they don't interfere unless it's absolutely necessary. They purposefully distance themselves from civilization.
I would like to think that they let things get out of hand so when they do take it no one complains. If they just took it both the empire and the aldmeri dominion would use all their resources to hunt down the psijic order.
I'd say that the order didn't take the eye because of the amount of factors associated with the dragonborn. With our eventual success against alduin, use of the elder scrolls, becoming the champion of many deadra.... They couldn't see which eventuality would happen because we were at the center of the happenings. There were probably points where having the eye at the college was fine or the use of the elder scrolls did something to the eye, or a god opened it.... We just so happened to head in the direction of destruction and again with our influence they could tell that we were not the ones to lead the college to watch the eye.... Maybe.
The poisoned mead ACTUALLY DRIVES ME NUTS. I'm so glad you included this
Lol, could be that his shity mead was tainted from skeever droppings or something 😂
the real plot hole is why there is a headless naked guard at 1:14
the same one is in the backround here 4:20
"in an ancient nord tomb"
or just a regular random tomb back then
When Yugi transforms to Atem, nobody is questioning his aging as well sooo...
My guess would be that the change is for the audience's sake, even if that includes Yugi suddenly becoming taller as well.
Because he doesn't age. He doesn't even get taller. It's a common misconception but when you seem him next to other characters he's the same size. Any other visual change is just for the audience. Only change that other characters notice is his personality and confidence. As for his voice, that's a dubbing "mistake." In the original Japanese version (of Duel Monsters) the difference between Yugi's and Atem's voices are subtler. THE MORE YOU KNOW.
Oblivion gives us a possible explanation for the sybille stentor plotline. The count of Skingrad is a vampire and is known to the authorities but is tolerated because he is a powerful ally. It's entirely possible that the court of Solitude is aware of the situation but does nothing because of the advantages of having Stentor on their side.
Exactly. That's also why they don't bat an eye when the dragonborn is a vampire, because they need the dragonborn. The dragonborn is the reason skyrim isn't completely ruled by dragons.
With the Honningbrew Meade thing, I think that it's implied that you return through the tunnels rather than the front door. So it's more of an issue with story scripting than anything really.
1:18 Don't mind me, just a normal naked headless T-posing guard