Finally, I found someone. I was always feeling the same thing. Pronation through hand and thumb was making me feel uncomfortable. I wasn't feeling my pronation. Pronation through wrist is the best exercise for pronation. Also, I made my own exercise for pronation. Fırst of you are going to put the strap on your wrist as supinated position. Like a bicep curl. The strap will stay there. After that, you are going to loop the bottom strap through your hand. With this, weight will be on your wrist and on your hand at the same time. Unlike through the thumb, it feels way more better and it eliminates the cheating chance. Have a nice day. God be with you.
I tried it and it really takes the hand out of the equation. Only downside for me was strap bruised and scuffed my wrist because I don't have callous there yet. The feel is actually different and more comfortable, I can focus on my arm instead of my wrist and I was surprised.
One solution is just do these exercices with no wrist bent. And you can also add more torque by adding layers (using washcloth or whatever) under the belt. Nonetheless a great video
My man. You're really hung up on that forearm line. You also get a couple of things wrong about torque (τ = Fr), such as (1) in which direction the distance (r) is measured, and (2) how the force (F) is calculated (it's not mass). However, focusing on the issue, fundamentally, the most efficient way to pronate in arm wrestling is with (1) a rise, (2) _a cup_ and (3) a roll (pronation). It's not really ideal trying to think of only rotating your entire forearm as one straight line. Even in the King's Move, which entirely sacrifices everything else in favor of your pronation eliminating the _opponent's cup,_ you still do care whether you lost _your own cup._ Remember what's the setup in arm wrestling. The opponent's grip is around your thumb - they don't touch your wrist. This changes with the strap, but again, if the strengths are even close, you're only able to pronate when you've achieved some level of cup and rise (or higher grip). You _are_ correct when you say that when training pronation, your wrist should not be _bent in._ But not because this only trains your "rise" (just add some more weight and you'll see the pronation tipping point), but because this is not the neutral starting point before "go". As a toproller, you still wouldn't wanna lose the pronation before you achieve the rise/cup _just_ because you couldn't adequately engage it there. Lastly, the way you keep showing the exercise itself, unfortunately, is also wrong. You don't want to train your pronation starting your palm up. This is _defensive pronation._ From a lost match back to neutral. This will basically never happen. Most ideally, you want to _protect_ all things rise/cup/pronation much as you can. This is why the exercise should be from _neutral_ to the _winning side._ And it doesn't have to be much - the real AW match gets much easier the further you go. That's also why Devon only teaches breaking the heaviest weight off the floor even by one single inch.
_"You also get a couple of things wrong about torque (τ = Fr), such as (1) in which direction the distance (r) is measured, and (2) how the force (F) is calculated (it's not mass)"._ Yes, I know - didn't feel the need to get all technical about torque, Newtons, and perpendicular force vector alignment since the main point was that with a zero lever arm, the torque is zero. _"It's not really ideal trying to think of only rotating your entire forearm as one straight line"._ Since the _pronator teres_ muscle (which is solely responsible for pronation) can only affect the pronation by pulling on the _radius_ bone, the human body can only do pronation one way, which is the rotation of the entire forearm as one straight line. Sure in an arm wrestling match, there are a lot of other strengths which are required on top of pronation. This however doesn't mean that pronation isolation training wouldn't be wise, or that instead of training pronation, we should accidentally end up training the rising or cupping, which is the issue I am addressing in the video. _"This changes with the strap, but again, if the strengths are even close, you're only able to pronate when you've achieved some level of cup and rise (or higher grip)"._ In the video, I didn't make any claims about when the pronation is needed in an arm wrestling match, so don't see where this argument is coming from. However though, if this argument is stemming from the idea that "One should train for arm wrestling the exact way one arm wrestles in a match", then I must just disagree with the premise of the argument since I do not think one should. There are many good exercises, like for example the strict curl, pullups, dumbbell rows, etc. all of which are not movements one identically does in an arm wrestling match, but which still train muscles that play a key role in an arm wrestling match, just like this isolation pronation movement does, hence making the movement a valid exercise for arm wrestling. _"You are correct when you say that when training pronation, your wrist should not be bent in. But not because this only trains your "rise" (just add some more weight and you'll see the pronation tipping point), but because this is not the neutral starting point before 'go'"._ You seem to be implying that "if the starting point would be so that you get a little bend in your wrist, that then pronation could be trained with the high belt setup with a bent wrist." I do not agree with this, because as I argue in the video, this movement doesn't have torque in it, and hence doesn't actually train the pronator. It doesn't make sense to train something with a movement that doesn't actually train that something in my opinion. _"This is defensive pronation. From a lost match back to neutral. This will basically never happen. Most ideally, you want to protect all things rise/cup/pronation much as you can. This is why the exercise should be from neutral to the winning side"._ In the video, I show that the no torque position can be found (1) in the neutral position when one bends their wrist in, (2) in the palm up position when one dumbs their rising, but it can also be found (3) in the palm down position if one over engages their rising, and hence the point remains that since the torque can be made zero in all positions, the high belt pronation exercise doesn't actually train the pronator (if one doesn't keep their wrist straight). In other words, you seem to be implying that "with the high belt pronation, the torque can not be made zero in the palm-down position hence making the high belt pronation a valid movement to train this very range". I disagree with the premise of this argument because the torque can also be made zero in the palm-down position by over-engaging the rising. Obviously one can still train the pronation with the high belt exercise if one truly keeps their wrist straight, which is what I also said in the video. My point just was that the movement is problematic since one can very easily exclude the very muscle from the lift which they are trying to train. I hope these answers helped to clear some misconceptions regarding what I said in the video.
With that there is also a possibility of the level becoming zero depending on the wrist manipulation, in which case it also stops being a pronation exercise. I can do a video on it in the future since this topic isn't as simple as it seems.
This makes sense, I was doing the wrong form and I noticed it activated more of my brachioradialis more than my pronator. Great vid!
Finally, I found someone. I was always feeling the same thing. Pronation through hand and thumb was making me feel uncomfortable. I wasn't feeling my pronation. Pronation through wrist is the best exercise for pronation.
Also, I made my own exercise for pronation.
Fırst of you are going to put the strap on your wrist as supinated position. Like a bicep curl. The strap will stay there. After that, you are going to loop the bottom strap through your hand.
With this, weight will be on your wrist and on your hand at the same time. Unlike through the thumb, it feels way more better and it eliminates the cheating chance.
Have a nice day. God be with you.
I will try
I tried it and it really takes the hand out of the equation. Only downside for me was strap bruised and scuffed my wrist because I don't have callous there yet. The feel is actually different and more comfortable, I can focus on my arm instead of my wrist and I was surprised.
One solution is just do these exercices with no wrist bent. And you can also add more torque by adding layers (using washcloth or whatever) under the belt. Nonetheless a great video
My man. You're really hung up on that forearm line. You also get a couple of things wrong about torque (τ = Fr), such as (1) in which direction the distance (r) is measured, and (2) how the force (F) is calculated (it's not mass).
However, focusing on the issue, fundamentally, the most efficient way to pronate in arm wrestling is with (1) a rise, (2) _a cup_ and (3) a roll (pronation). It's not really ideal trying to think of only rotating your entire forearm as one straight line. Even in the King's Move, which entirely sacrifices everything else in favor of your pronation eliminating the _opponent's cup,_ you still do care whether you lost _your own cup._
Remember what's the setup in arm wrestling. The opponent's grip is around your thumb - they don't touch your wrist. This changes with the strap, but again, if the strengths are even close, you're only able to pronate when you've achieved some level of cup and rise (or higher grip).
You _are_ correct when you say that when training pronation, your wrist should not be _bent in._ But not because this only trains your "rise" (just add some more weight and you'll see the pronation tipping point), but because this is not the neutral starting point before "go". As a toproller, you still wouldn't wanna lose the pronation before you achieve the rise/cup _just_ because you couldn't adequately engage it there.
Lastly, the way you keep showing the exercise itself, unfortunately, is also wrong. You don't want to train your pronation starting your palm up. This is _defensive pronation._ From a lost match back to neutral. This will basically never happen. Most ideally, you want to _protect_ all things rise/cup/pronation much as you can. This is why the exercise should be from _neutral_ to the _winning side._ And it doesn't have to be much - the real AW match gets much easier the further you go. That's also why Devon only teaches breaking the heaviest weight off the floor even by one single inch.
_"You also get a couple of things wrong about torque (τ = Fr), such as (1) in which direction the distance (r) is measured, and (2) how the force (F) is calculated (it's not mass)"._
Yes, I know - didn't feel the need to get all technical about torque, Newtons, and perpendicular force vector alignment since the main point was that with a zero lever arm, the torque is zero.
_"It's not really ideal trying to think of only rotating your entire forearm as one straight line"._
Since the _pronator teres_ muscle (which is solely responsible for pronation) can only affect the pronation by pulling on the _radius_ bone, the human body can only do pronation one way, which is the rotation of the entire forearm as one straight line. Sure in an arm wrestling match, there are a lot of other strengths which are required on top of pronation. This however doesn't mean that pronation isolation training wouldn't be wise, or that instead of training pronation, we should accidentally end up training the rising or cupping, which is the issue I am addressing in the video.
_"This changes with the strap, but again, if the strengths are even close, you're only able to pronate when you've achieved some level of cup and rise (or higher grip)"._
In the video, I didn't make any claims about when the pronation is needed in an arm wrestling match, so don't see where this argument is coming from. However though, if this argument is stemming from the idea that "One should train for arm wrestling the exact way one arm wrestles in a match", then I must just disagree with the premise of the argument since I do not think one should. There are many good exercises, like for example the strict curl, pullups, dumbbell rows, etc. all of which are not movements one identically does in an arm wrestling match, but which still train muscles that play a key role in an arm wrestling match, just like this isolation pronation movement does, hence making the movement a valid exercise for arm wrestling.
_"You are correct when you say that when training pronation, your wrist should not be bent in. But not because this only trains your "rise" (just add some more weight and you'll see the pronation tipping point), but because this is not the neutral starting point before 'go'"._
You seem to be implying that "if the starting point would be so that you get a little bend in your wrist, that then pronation could be trained with the high belt setup with a bent wrist." I do not agree with this, because as I argue in the video, this movement doesn't have torque in it, and hence doesn't actually train the pronator. It doesn't make sense to train something with a movement that doesn't actually train that something in my opinion.
_"This is defensive pronation. From a lost match back to neutral. This will basically never happen. Most ideally, you want to protect all things rise/cup/pronation much as you can. This is why the exercise should be from neutral to the winning side"._
In the video, I show that the no torque position can be found (1) in the neutral position when one bends their wrist in, (2) in the palm up position when one dumbs their rising, but it can also be found (3) in the palm down position if one over engages their rising, and hence the point remains that since the torque can be made zero in all positions, the high belt pronation exercise doesn't actually train the pronator (if one doesn't keep their wrist straight). In other words, you seem to be implying that "with the high belt pronation, the torque can not be made zero in the palm-down position hence making the high belt pronation a valid movement to train this very range". I disagree with the premise of this argument because the torque can also be made zero in the palm-down position by over-engaging the rising.
Obviously one can still train the pronation with the high belt exercise if one truly keeps their wrist straight, which is what I also said in the video. My point just was that the movement is problematic since one can very easily exclude the very muscle from the lift which they are trying to train.
I hope these answers helped to clear some misconceptions regarding what I said in the video.
What about using a dumbbel loaded on one side?
With that there is also a possibility of the level becoming zero depending on the wrist manipulation, in which case it also stops being a pronation exercise. I can do a video on it in the future since this topic isn't as simple as it seems.
Here is video in which I addressed the issue:
ruclips.net/video/ePcvYE2jhig/видео.html&ab_channel=T12J7
The issue comes up at the time mark 00:02:20
informative, ty.
Hello prudnik
Thanks