Jim Cornette Reviews Dave Meltzer's Comments On His Star Ratings
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- Опубликовано: 14 июл 2023
- From Episode 300 of the Jim Cornette's Drive Thru
Artwork by Travis Heckel!
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The fact that Kurt Angle doesn’t have a single 5 star match already tells you everything
i was thinking the same thing how people can take this man seriously where some of the greatest matches aren't in Dave 5 star list. especially a Kurt Angle Match i can count at least 2 off of the top of my head are 5 star even taker and Michaels was a 5-star match.
I know! Kurt vs Brock and Benoit are 5 star matches. The fact Dave didn’t give them a single one is insulting
@@kennethbrown2358 Kurt vs HBK, all 3 match each deserves the 5 stars rating...
It’s fucking hilarious actually
Daves point was hes had close to 5 star matches which is just as good as 5 stars so you shouldnt be hung up on that 5 number when 4.75 stars is just as good. Thats his dumb logic.
Zero 5 star matches for Kurt Angle automatically invalidates his rating system.
Ospreay has more 5 star ratings than any other wrestler ever I believe close to 30 and I don't really mind Ospreay much prefer him over omega,bucks etc but that's ridiculous
His match vs HBK at Mania is better than 99% of Meltzer's so called 5 star matches.
@@stingfan5642 How many people watched all those Osprey matches outside of Japan ? Very few people even saw them. Thats why he rates them highly because its cool to like something thats not popular. Hipster mentality. WWE popular so not cool and doesnt get rated highly.
@@Chaz4543it’s not even just an anti-WWE bias. The Rick Rude/Ricky Steamboat iron man match is the definition of what a 5* match should be, and it’s less than 5*. Yet the Plumber and the Hardly Boys get them handed out to them like candy.
Zero 5 stars to Eddie Guerrero as well.
Not giving Shawn-Taker 5 stars because it was “my turn your turn” as he called it while giving the elite multiple 5 star matches for doing the same exact thing in a way more obvious fashion is the craziest thing he could’ve said
He just exposed his star rating is phony with that explanation
Because neither named a maneuver after him
If any match was the appropriate time to use "my turn, your turn" it was this match that was beautifully built up and presented as an epic showdown between two legends against a thematic backdrop of light and darkness/good and evil. Meltzer is a hack.
And none of their matches builds to the finish. They’re just a bunch of moves back and forth, and then it ends.
@@notgonnapay and their matches often end in an underwhelming way, in comparison to some of the crazy moves they do throughout the match, which ironically is something that Meltzer claims he doesn't like in this clip
Imagine trying to buy a $5 item, but you just give the cashier $4.75 and say, "Don't worry about it. It's the same thing."😂
@@EwanCumia 😯 😬
That basically happened to me.
Working in retail you'd be surprised just how often that kind of thing happens.
Maybe that's how they fudge the attendance numbers?
I worked two separate stints in retail. People try that far more often than you'd think
Dave Meltzer the man who takes forever to say absolutely nothing
I did once listen to a Dave clip on multiple occasions and had to keep telling myself what he was initially asked because his answer in the end had fck all to do with the question.
@@JohnKobaRuddy he would make a great politician.
Bullshit Artist 101
@@bipolarminddroppingshe already is one
you know uh iiii i dont know u know u know u know u know and and and and uh uh uh
The fact that Moxley has had more 5 star matches in the past year than the WHOLE WWF/E promotion for 25yrs is crazy. His credibility has to be questioned.
It's the angle thing that blows my mind. How can you say Moxley has higher rating matches than Kurt Angle? Absolutely zero credibility.
The fact that Moxley has ANY 5 star matches is ridiculous
Not questioned, just disregard his ratings. Clearly Meltzer is a goof. He's an AEW stooge working the game to remain relevant in the business.
He's nuts and completely lost the plot.
@@Pogo113 It's clear what he give 6 stars to Omega/Osprey and don't give 5 starts to Okada/Bryan just to allow Omega have more 5+ matches then Okada
This interview further proved that Dave Meltzer is the mark of all marks.
THANK YOU!
"Its all about surprising, shocking, and not being predictable."
Mox bleeds every match. 20 stars out of 5.
Brock vs Taker at Wrestlemania 30 should be 50 stars for unpredictability 😂
Chris Van Vliet is a pro. So much respect for him
I especially respect him for sticking up for wrestling fans when outsiders call it "fake".
He was part of the Barbie junket so he’s already more legitimate than anyone in mark reporting territory
He’s one of the few journalists that can get a sound byte with Dwayne Johnson on short notice. That’s credibility that teabags anything Meltzer has.
He came with receipts, too
Yeah he is the best wrestling journalist eventhough he is not exclusive to Wrestling. He has had big interviews and has his own show and all.
Daves excuse for HBK vs Undertaker for not being five stars was that it was "predictable". Unlike the predictable no selling, hand holding and synchronized dancing in every Young Bucks match he gave 5 stars to
I wonder did he bets on Taker winning at Mania 30, until Vince decided to change the results. Yes, the match are predictable but Vince mind and mood aren't
Thing is I don't think the Taker v Michaels match was that predictable especially to smart fans, if there was one person that had political sway to persuade Vince to have him end the streak and the ego to ask to do it, it was Shawn Michaels.
It's the best match ever. Dm is insane
Well, Uncle Dave obviously grades on a curve: an automatic +1 star for each Cucamonga Kid in the match.
That singular match is legit the moment I stopped giving a damn about his ratings and realized he was an out of touch idiot with a newsletter
The funniest part about this is that Van Vliet is basically laughing at Meltzer the whole time without him figuring it out.
Not a single one of Shawn Michaels' amazing post-comeback Wrestlemania matches got 5 stars. Amazing.
The one he had with Angle deserved 5 stars. I'm not a Michaels fan, but that match is still amazing to me.
Shawn doesn't care. He's too busy still earning money in the business and is still busy counting the money he made in the ring.
HHH vs HBK vs Chris Benoit (W20), HBK vs Kurt Angle and both the matches between HBK and Taker were all 5 star quality matches.
@arvindshastry6434 I'll be honest I can't stand hbks personality. He was a problem back stage.but that match against hhh was great the match against taker was great
HBK vs Jeff Hardy from Raw 2007 was better than anything in AEW.
it's crazy that an olympic gold medalist with a broken fricking neck never had a 5 star match but Wheeler Yuta and Chuck Taylor did LMAO
That's an atrocity
@@RockSmith-rl9qr utterly absurd
Makes you want to smack tf out these lame idiots spreading blasphemy
Pretty much why his rating system is meaningless.
@@robintst na Dave's existence is just meaningless..sick of us as a society not calling out dumb people.
CVV did a great job as he always does. I really felt like he was able to simultaneously be respectful while also pointing out Dave‘s star rating nonsense.
Yeah, 100% my opinion as well. It was fascinating hearing CVV respectfully challenge Dave's nonsense.
I’m surprised Chris and Jim/Brian’s paths haven’t crossed more often.
@@HessenUKChris seems like a guy who is a true fan, and is willing to view things that Jim/Brian would absolutely hate. I wouldn’t be shocked if he avoided them vise versa.
Like Jim/Brian often said. If you're a modern day journalist, and you don't kiss up to your interviewee, NO ACCESS!
I gotta give James at Wrestling Shoot Interviews a plug/props too. He's got a good channel as well.
Chris taking the piss out of Dave by just taking what he said during the interview and restating it without all the beating around the bush was HYSTERICAL
“If Undertaker vs HBK involved a blowup doll, it would’ve been a 7 star classic.” - Meltzer
Plus 2 if it's in the tokyo dome
IMAGINE? 🤦🏾♂️
I love how Chris Von Vilet said in the politest way possible that he's full of shit 🤣🤣
Lol yes he did
He should've confronted him more & actually said he's full of shit.. instead of doing it through innuendo
Chris Ven Vtiel should've slapped him
Black belt in bullshido 😂😂
@@andystegall7407who?
Dave: "Idk 5 star ratings are a different beast "
Van Vliet: "My brother in christ, you made the star ratings "
Hearing Meltzer trip over himself while Cornette and Brian bust out laughing is the best
Dude, Chris is one of the kindest and most respectful interviewers in wrestling and for him to question Dave's TNA viewing was amazing. You know Dave is full of crap when even Chris says something.
Yea in early TNA AJ styles was putting on absolute clinics with guys like Jerry Lynn how you could just ignore it is baffling I think he just flat out didn’t watch alot of north american wrestling in that period.
@@walmartian422 AJ at his peak or even now is an industry leader and redefined greatness in the ring. To overlook that is criminal.
'He looks like he has a strong smell of vinegar', is the best Cornette line in a while. Also, it will forever blow my mind how inarticulate Meltzer is.
And yet he's considered "journalist".
What was meaning to this joke? Brian even said most wouldn’t get it🤣🤣🤣
It was the first thing I thought seeing Dave and Travis artwork..😂
Plz elaborate, what's it about
@@stephendwane8166 I looked it up and apparently, it means that he has kidney disease because without functioning kidneys, your sweat and urine smells like vinegar. I have no idea why he would think that Meltzer has kidney disease though lmao
The fact that he’s given Jon Moxley multiple 5 star ratings in a single year, and never gave Eddie Guerrero a single 5 star rating his whole career is an indictment of his entire star rating system.
When World's Collide
@@chrischar9428 Damned good event.
He never gave Eddie Guerrero five stars in any of his matches over the course of his career? Wow! I would not have guessed that.
@@mattmorgan2534 He got one from a tag match when he was tagging with Art Barr
@@mattmorgan2534 did u not see my post
Kurt Angle is my pound for pound greatest wrestler of all time and the fact that he has zero five stars and the Bucks have 11 Five star matches and even a 6 star match is fucking insane.
But he has 4.75 star matches, which is the same thing 😂 fucking Dave
Kurt came up when the business was cooling off, the Bucks came up during a mini-resurgance.
@@DreamDimensions-hv4lgAngle was in WWF in 1999 which is some of WWF's biggest years. He left in Mid 00's so no he wasn't. Also he was in Impact vs Samoa Joe.
I could see a one or two 5 star match total discrepancy. But 11? One of which was a 6 star? Stop. Just Stop. Any further and you will remove all doubt as the saying goes.
@@sidhenihilist He debuted at Survivor Series and didn't become a name until 2000, and was mostly just an annoying heel. By the time he became a well respected worker in 2002 the company was in a freefall ratings-wise.
@@DreamDimensions-hv4lgbut should a company as a whole effect a matches rating, shouldn't the match be what is rated not the company included in that rating
I have never heard someone contradict themselves so much in one hour. He's basically saying that his 4 star ratings are better than his 5 stars 😂
A 5 star match today = 4 stars twenty years ago. The scale changed after Okada/Omega.
Dave would give you nickel and fight you until the very end to convince you that that coin is equal to a dime
He’s basically admitting that a 5 star match in this era was a 4 star match in the past then realizing that he just buried the present guys he tries to repair that by contradicting himself and then claiming that everything today is actually so much better because the conditions are more favorable to producing 5 star matches. He’s trying to square the circle without burying the past or present but it’s just not working.
So 4 doesn’t mean 5 today. Dave even admits it.
Meltzer is insane. You can hear him trying to convince himself, before he finally spits it out. Unreal, that anyone in their right mind could take Dave seriously.
His Californian girls voice is extremely grating and his reasoning is baffling. He's a "scope". Scope is a specific charity in Britain.
Conrad Thompson swears by the guy which I don’t understand at all. Dave Meltzer’s has literally no credibility in the behind the scenes stuff it just makes no sense to me lol.
He seemed utterly surprised that someone would call him on his shit. With legit charges, instead of the usual, “he’s a dirtsheet writer.” Actual charges, “this is why you’re not a legit voice in sports. You’re on the payroll.”
He's a shill
29:49 especially this
Dave Meltzer blocked me on twitter after I called him out for spreading falsehoods about CM Punk. Meltzer can’t handle getting called out and he’s a lunatic.
Dave is the embodiment of that "someone is wrong on the internet" comic from xkcd. He'll spend hours searching out people to argue with, ones that don't even mention or tweet at him.
Idk man Dave really changed things up a bit when he fell in love with Nick and Matt
He blocked Dutch Mantell when he was given facts on why Memphis wasn't a joke territory
I would block you too, if I were a "celebrity". He probably gets 100s of such messages every day and his notifications are probably full of stuff like that. The simple thing to do is to block those people.
You are a random nobody on the internet who has direct access to famous people via twitter etc, its unhealthy that you actually directly tweet at celebrities.
I've never been blocked by anyone like Meltzer, because I'm not childish enough to actually @ them in my tweets...
@@z2ei Yeah but in this case, Dave blocked him after he "called him out" which means he probably @'d him. If you @ a celebrity in your tweets, they are going to block you.
I like how Dave says, "I can go back and think, maybe that match was not 5 stars more like 4 and three quarters." Then Chris asks him about Hogan vs. Rock at Wrestlemania 18 getting 3 stars and asks "can we give it 4? " Dave quickly states, "I can't go back in the past, it is all about the future." lol
🤣🤣🤣🤣
CVV is the only dude in all of wrestling who I think not a single person has a problem with
Even MJF literally only misspelled his name in a live interview and treated his interviews seriously lol. He's the Ariel Helwani of pro wrestling
He's definitely up there with Mick Foley and Bobby Eaton (RIP) and people like that that everyone in the business loves
@@funkytiger8683he’s far more respected than the rat Helwani. Nobody likes that guy in mma
Dave’s the only grown man that gives me a headache after listening to him for 15 seconds.
He speaks, but says nothing.
His constant anddd, ermmm.. urghhh.. stuttering is just unbearable. How is he so highly rated as a wrestling great critic? He can't think of any logical answers to back up his ratings so just drags out the answers for so long
He has the cadence and verbal skills of a confused teenage girl
I was listening to the Chris Van podcast with him and I got to a point where I said “meh screw this” and turned it off.
I couldn't listen to the cvv interview without getting a headache from dave
Dave Meltzer is the greatest worker in wrestling today eventhough he's never been in the business.
- Al Snow
I love how much disdain Al Snow has for uncle Dave
@@JohnKobaRuddy
I know.
Al doesn't get mad at anybody and is a genuinely nice guy...
But he detests what Uncle Dave has done to the business al loves
To paraphrase Ole, Al did it, and Molly Meltzer Magoo wishes he did.
Dave is the definition of someone who loves to hear themselves talk... ALSO, Kurt Angle has probably wrestled more 5 star matches than anyone across multiple promotions ., He was a monster in TNA.
He downplays the compliments and position he's in but strokes his ego at the same time when he speaks, truly disgusting
I really liked his match with Desmond Wolf at Turning Point 2009.
@calamaty9963 the Samaoa Joe TNA matches were the archetypal example of what AEW sold us on with the "sports based" product to start. Hasnt been as good of a shoot match since.,
Would add Angle vs. Bret to dream matches list with Bret vs. Hogan, Warrior vs. Goldberg, Goldberg vs. Austin
No, Misawa and Okada have way more 5 star matches, and they drew way bigger crowds than Angle did in TNA.
Listening to Dave here, you realize that the greatest skill Omega and the Bucks have is working the Observer star rating. Usually you try to work the live audience to get the best reaction but their goal is specifically to get high star matches from Meltzer and their style of wrestling is designed around that.
Worst of all they act as though getting a high rating from this clown actually means something of note and makes them legit. I despise modern wrestling.
Go for the Shepard and you'll get the flock
@JohnKobaRuddy it's one of reasons wrestling is in such a poor state today
I will never understand how some people pay Dave money or use his ratings as the way to grade matches lol
MARKS
Complete tools
They are marks for all these goofs and Dave is the biggest mark for wanting to be liked by his little girlfriends in Aew.
Meltzer has gone nuts over the last decade, but there were plenty of reasons to pay Dave money for his newsletter until then. This was a closed off industry with no respect from news media companies and Dave covered it very well and knew / knows history better than 99% of fans.
@@VirgilZandigand then he rode that reputation into the 2010s where he lost all relevancy but yet tried to maintain this leadership over the IWC. It wasn't too long ago you could hardly say anything about about the Bucks or Omega, or argue about a match and the only opposition would be "But Meltzer says...'
I think we all deserve 7 stars for all the mental gymnastics we must do to understand Uncle Dave.
6 because You're not in the Tokyo Dome 😂.
@@MetalJT24😂😂😂😂😂
I still find 19:10-19:23 hilarious...
C.V.V. saying "That isn't the same thing, though..." was what really got me to laugh when I watched the interview in real-time.
An example of how redundant Dave's system is is that Adam Cole and Jericho at Double or Nothing got 3.25 stars despite, the crowd being dead, Jericho working at the pace of Andre the Giant and the fans absolutely hating the finish all because Dave is friends with Jericho.
Dave only gave 3 stars to Hulk vs The Rock where the fans loved every second of the match
As soon as Chris brought up Michaels and Undertaker, you can just hear Uncle Dave struggling to justify that call, then it's all just damage control from there.
He try to bs his way though the question and tried to cut CVV off when he question it. CVV saw through him and exposed his phony a** his excuse why Kurt didn't get 5 star is a prove that his star rating is phony. Kurt matches with HBK, Taker, Brock, Benoit deserves the 5 stars
Dave Meltzer is a bonafide master of answering questions while saying absolutely nothing at the same time😂😂
It blows my mind that he didn't rate any of the early 2000s matches with guerrero or angle or benoit at 5 stars. But AEW is killing it with the 5 stars. C'mon buddy
He was more into MMA at the time. PRIDE was red hot and UFC was on the come up, wrestling both in the US and Japan were cooling off.
@@DreamDimensions-hv4lg Dave has always been a shill. Like, come on, I enjoy puroresu as much as any old guard wrestling fan but some of those AJPW are MASSIVELY overrated.
@@Ramekink His ridiculous praise of Baba over Inoki is laughable. Baba couldn't work to save his life even in his PRIME, yet Meltzer considers him one of the greatest workers of all time and 1000 times better than Inoki. I defy ANYONE to watch ANY Inoki match and any Baba match back to back and tell me Baba was better.
Dave did a good job explaining why nobody should take his star ratings seriously
Van Vliet did such a great job pushing Meltzer. That's why I rate the dude as the number 1 interviewer. Would love to have him interview Bryan and Jim
The Elite fanbase gonna have a meltdown and scream "CANCEL CHRIS VAN VLIET".
Van Vlient should interview Tony, I think Tony will cry on air
He should interview Jim.
Why would you want him pushing Brian and Jim?
@@sigmablockwell The Elite are useless
WWE have 18 matches that are rated 5 stars with their highest rating being 5.5 stars.
AEW (which has been around for 4 years) have 22 matches that are rated 5 stars with their highest rating being 6 stars.
That alone should tell you how biased Dave is.
Not just biased..but clueless and all his followers are the ones that need to drop d**d ..yet people that follow jim are the zombies and etc? What a joke these nerds are. And wonder why they'll never get Laid or have a life.
They're clueless and socially unaware about common sense things.
TNA has one in 21 years despite all the great talent that worked there. You can hate the storylines and bookers but the in ring product in impact should’ve produced more then one 5 star match
@@TheWill1225 exactly but Dave raves about the old tna talent now that they're in aew and they're putting on some of the worst matches ever...the guy is a joke..can we just ignore this pos.
Neither Austin vs Rock match at Mania is rated 5 stars, that's absolute insanity. The Rock has no 5 star matches. Eddiie Guererro has no 5 star matches as a solo (he has one when he was tagging with Art Barr). Angle and Lesnar have no 5 star matches. Benoit has none. Aj Styles has one. Cena only has one. Ridiculous.
@@mlaws11291Cena and styles at least one of those should’ve been 5 stars I believe Cena Bryan Summerslam was 5 stars triple h vs undertaker mania 17 is honestly 5 stars it’s fantastic like wtf
"Well you know yeah but it's like whatever" - Dave Meltzer
🤣🤣
For anyone interested in translating any of Dave's star ratings, try "Meltzer Math". Take the rating, multiply it by the number of people on his Christmas card list, take the square root of that, and subtract one star if there's more than six people, a second if it exceeds 25 minutes, and a third if it exceeds 40 minutes. If applicable, the Tokyodome is a wild card that can be used to adjust as needed.
Sounds like remedial Steiner Math, ngl lol.
@@jmtheelitefan9616Steiner math made more sense than Dave's horse shit
What happens when you add Kurt Angle to the mix?
@@bigpoppa1234 In that case, the match is scored out of 4.5 stars.
Meltzer speaks the way AEW books.
Like a 14 year old girl from California
Insane how the first thing Dave brings up is crowd reaction but Hogan vs rock is not 5 star🤣🤣🤣🤣
Vleet was so smooth with this interview, he's the man for this one 👍🏻
I was thinking that too. Meltzer is out of his God damn mind. How on God's green Earth was that match 3 stars
cvv watched the rock vs hogan live as a fan.. he was there and he interviewed both hulk and hogan about it. love cvv
@@samer9277both Hulk AND Hogan?????
How'd he manage that?😶
@@void5439Uncle Dave could do it!!!
Hulk knocks it down to a 4.
I still laugh around 29:30-29:58.
When Dave Meltzer says "That's an interesting thing." around 29:49, I howled with laughter...
11 Time Bryan Danielson Technical Wrestler of the Year Award Winner - Bryan Danielson
didn't have a single 5 star match before joining AEW.
Punk vs Bryan at MITB 2012 was really good. That’s one that really stands out to me.
first the near 50 minute Hardy vid now this today? cant think of a better way to kick off a weekend morning thank you Jim and Brian!
Agreed whole heartedly
I can... side position thrusts
Can do those while having Corny in one earbud
"kurt angle has never put on an elite level wrestling match"
Dave is insane. If it was possible for a human being to literally be wrestling, it would be Kurt Angle. His work is flawless and nobody is going to fuck with him behind the scenes.
I'm sure Kurt has had elite matches. It's Kurt. I highly doubt he ever had an Elite level match.
@@deejayguppy6087what's elite level?
@@JohnKobaRuddyAsk Randy Orton lol.
@@JohnKobaRuddy By elite level, I mean really good matches. By Elite, ie Matty Nicky Kenny, level, it's the same thing over and over again, like the Tribal Chief said.
Angle should consider that a compliment
Dave Meltzer himself gets a 5-star rating in the use of jibberish. Also, hearing a classic Brian laugh at 29:50 made my week.
Btw when Dave said he didn't give Taker vs Michaels because of the predictability of it, that is a FUCKING lie. He admitted on his review when the match came out that he was there live, and that the dive took him out of the match, and that's the reason he didn't give it five stars. He is backtracking.
He
According to Dave's logic Ultimate Warrior winning the Intercontinental Title at Summerslam is a 5 star match. For starters the crowd was popping huge to start with but at the end of the match it was twice as loud. Secondly the fact the match lasted 30 seconds definitely was surprising
Lol
Not to mention Warrior was a *_surprise_* opponent at said event!
@@S4UBSTR4LIEN_M4RRSUPI4L Honkys shocked reaction was the best part of the whole "match" 😂
Thats the thing that gets me is Dave will justify stupid stuff the bucks do and says "it works for that audience". Yet he would shit on the likes of Warrior and Goldberg. They stuff they did worked for that audience and they drew a hell of a lot more money/viewers then the bucks
@@MarcoNegrisEye You have to give props to the Honky Tonk Man his facial expressions sold that match great, that has to be worth at least 1 star
Every time I hear Meltzer talk, I ask myself if he ever had some kind of personal interaction with any human being before.
And by the way CVV is a great interviewer, I really admire his work.
Only Olle Anderson? Which went well😆
Uhm yeah see uhm yeah uhm uhm well you see uhm -Uncle Dave. I don’t think he’s ever had a coherent conversation
This is just my opinion, but I I am pretty sure that Dave is on the autism spectrum
@@nowtheworld138 Don't forget all the "Well you know"s
@@highlordlaughterofcanada8685 lmao brother I read it in Jerry Jarrett’s voice.. in my brain that belongs to Jerry “huh” Jarrett 😂
3 stars for Hulk v Rock is pretty telling. I was there that night and my ears were ringing that night because of how loud the crowd was.
“He has a look like he smells vinegar”😂 I don’t get the “inside” joke, but the fact that he really does💀
"5 stars & above are reserved for my friends." Dave Meltzer
Listening to Dave putting sentences together as a "journalist" is torture!
Yeah, my grandmother with dementia can form sentences better
He makes Shitstain look like a literary genius.
Uhhh, you know, I mean …. Like uhhhh
At least he can put it together good on paper when he has his pieces but fuuuuck when he talks
His voice is AWFUL
How on earth does anybody take Dave seriously? He has no self awareness, takes himself more seriously than a heart attack, and has zero idea about how personal biases affect judgement.
Man is a dope.
CVV is a really great interviewer. Right level of confrontation while remaining respectful. He verbally eviscerated Meltzer while smiling the whole time.
"It's the ELITE rating."
You mean "The. Elite. The-The Elite."
Oh my days. This was a joy to listen to. Van Vliet one of the kindest fellas doing wrestling podcasts just inadvertently curb stomped Dave Meltzer.
@@SummerShark69 And won't even consider that he might be wrong.
@@SummerShark69 Hell I don't think he EVER re-evaluates any matches in general, it's like he thinks whatever rating he puts on it should be the final one.
Dave was very non-plussed at points. Saying one thing, then quickly reversing himself. Savage, Angle, Van Dam, total of 5-star matches... Zero.
@@monabear7287 Dean malenko had a 5 star match in ECW. I'm sure Eddie had great matches in WCW. many others too. But Dave has some kind of mental issue where bright lights and flashes get him off. He is a full grown simpleton.
Every b.s. answer Dave had, Van Vliet had a comeback and made Meltzer look like an absolute fool
I laughed so much when Uncle Dave said that Undertaker vs Michaels didn't got 5 stars because it was too long,but gave more than 5 stars to Ospreay vs Omega that took longer than Taker and Michaels😂
I guess this logic only apply with people that he doesn't like, because he gave Joe vs Punk less than 4 stars🤦🏻
He also tried to justify it by saying he knew what Taker and HBK were doing when The Young Bucks, the 5 star kings for Dave, has the most predictable matches 😅
@@christiankarlkarganilla2763 yeah, Taker getting knocked out when Sim Snuka failed to catch him at WM 25 and the Streak vs Career stip at Mania 26 smell more unpredictable (at that time) that Young Buck superkick party can ever be. His reasoning is still sounded phony to me. Admit that you made a mistake Uncle Dave and stop pushing what stupid criteria Young Bucks and Omega had met to get your 5 stars
I guess they didn't take enough "risks" in the match to earn his very "prestigious" 5 STARS lol
Jericho vs Commander got 4 stars.
Punk vs. Joe got 3.75 stars
He very clearly has a disability that gives him the childlike idiocies.
Good on Chris for pushing the subject with him and making the points anyone with a brain would
I love when I realize when the thumbnail art, matches up with a quote or section in the segment
Chris is usually very welcoming and positive on his interviews as he has interviewed huge celebirties over the years so it was nice to see him actually question Meltzers ratings and notice the flaws in them.
He was still very polite. Meltzer just had no idea how to defend his position and methods. As gentle as Chris was, I don’t see Meltzer coming back on 😂
@JM1993951 Uncle Dave panicked when CVV questioned his star rating that he resorted to bs his way though and try to shut CVV up, talking over him when CVV trying to refute his arguments
Mixing rotten tomatoes with attack of the killer tomatoes is so fucking great. Travis keeps up the great work
Best WWE match I ever saw was Hardys vs Edge and Christian in ladder match for Tag belts. Both teams were spent at the end I was shocked that none were hospitalized.
If I had a shot for every "you know " and stutter from Meltzer says in the interview, I would have died from liver failure by now. It´s incredible how Meltzer can´t express a coherent thought to save his life, it took him 20 minutes to say " I don´t give 5 stars to WWE because It´s not the wrestling style that I like".
23:23 - So predictable is bad when it is Taker and Shawn.... but the fact that everything AEW has ever done is 100% exactly what everybody expects it to be every single time.... thats innovation....
Shawn and Taker... kills finishes..... Everybody in AEW doing every single move they know in every single match they have, kicking out of everything, and a roll up finish.... 5-stars....
Dave is a putz.
What's funny is that match wasn't predictible at all. Not even that Michaels kicked out of a Tombstone (which never happened before by someone who is not a powerhouse like Kane or Batista), but even the finish of the match after that point became questionable. If before going into the match you thought it would be a great match but an obvious win for Taker, after that you began thinking "Hey, I think Michaels could actually pull this off"
Dave watching HBK and Taker: Eh, too predictable…
Dave watching the young bucks have the same match every time: Oh wow! A super kick! Remarkable! How do they continue to surprise me? Woah! Their tag match broke down into a series of moves with no psychology! THIS IS WRESTLING!!!
It's hard to justify Dave's point when the only protected move in that company was the one winged angel and even it's been kicked out of by this point
Omega doing 8 V triggers in every match and never pins anyone with it.. but they won't kick out of his Chris Sabin's cradle shot rip off finisher.. like it's some sort of innovative move or something😂
If Shawn and Taker match would have been in AEW, it would have gotten a 5 star rating.
Also by Dave’s own explanation why didn’t he give rock vs hogan 5 stars. The crowd was super hot, the match was really good, the finish was good and the finish led to hogan turning babyface and accomplished something so by Dave’s own logic that match should have been 5 stars but it wasn’t it was like 3 1/4 stars. That’s just one example. What Dave should say is “I give all my friends that name moves after me and put me over bc I really want to be liked and feel important 5 stars”
Hogan has been living rent free in Dave's head for years
@@wildwine6400haha
@@wildwine6400 THIS IS WHAT WE CALL A RAGSHEET, BROTHER!
No surprise, he hates Hogan. Hogan vs. Andre was originally rated -4 stars by him, until he was pressured by his readers and he gave it +1 star. The biggest match of the 80's, the one match everybody was talking about. Meltze has always been a work rate mark who doesn't understand how pro wrestling actually works.
@@ShadowAngel-lt8nw yup that’s exactly what it is, he gives star ratings based on who he likes and who likes him. He rambles on about the criteria he uses to rate matches yet he doesn’t actually use that criteria to rate the matches. Hogan rock match was just one example that met his supposed criteria yet it got a shit rating. Not even 4 stars and it’s for the reason you just stated.
AEW has 21 five ⭐️matches in 4 years and WWE has only 19 !! In it’s ENTIRE HISTORY 😂😂😂😂
26:44
“Umm… you know… I mean… it’s just, you know… (unintelligible noise)…. Yeah… it’s.. it’s.. harder”
Classic Meltzer. He’s definitely hitting that word quota in some creative ways.
Dave gave The Wyatts vs The Shield at Elimination Chamber (2014) a 4.25 rating. How he can think anything Moxley has done in AEW is better than that is beyond me.
There just weren't enough forks and screwdrivers.
@@quentinkaasa47don’t forget the bed-of-nails...I haven’t seen that spot since the old freak-show days.
I cant even name a single Moxley match, how does he have so many 5 star matches
How can he rate anything that Mox has done in his entire career as being higher than 1 star is beyond me, Mox is god awfulful
Bray gods rest his soul always did make Ambrose look more expensive than he is.
18:58 Chris is Channeling all of our years of frustration here 😂
29:30
42:55
When Dave said a 5 star match has to be “ELITE ELITE ELITE” I fucking busted out laughing.
I love that Brian got such a huge kick out of that vinegar joke
Dave can keep his style with the flips and the psychology only he can understand, and I’ll be over here watching Angle, Savage, Eddie Guerrero, Hennig, Edge, etc.
Obviously he's been wrestling since the 70s and has probably seen more of those guys matches than you have, but doesn't think WWE is be-all end-all. The top CMLL, AJPW and NJPW guys are arguably better than anyone on that list.
You would think for someone that has been doing this for 40 years, he'd have a formula he could recite in his sleep, but he seems to be somehow caught off-guard by the questions (or trying to avoid being accountable for the criticisms)
This. You can hear the brakes in his mind screeching as he continues to contradict what makes a 5 star match.
He doesnt wantto be held to account is part of it. He wants the " its just my opinion" cop out ready in case he needs it.
The fact that kurt Angle never got a 5 star match but Moxley has multiple means the rating system is bullshit.
Dave Meltzer spent an hour finding a lot of different ways to say he doesn't like WWE
Dave trying to explain his ratings through crowd reaction is hilariously bad because he gave Hogan vs Andre minus 4 stars and that match had over 90 thousand people hanging on every single little move that happened during the match.
I watched that match last night for the first time and spent the whole thing ranting and swearing at Dave for that rating.
What an epic epic spectacle, david vs goliath, 90,000 people who 100% believed every moment of the hero conquering insurmountable odds.
The match should have gotten extra praise for squeezing so much excitement out despite Andre's physical state if anything.
And then his readers later voted it Worst Match of the Year.
What is hysterical to me is that Dave used to be able to tell the difference between the marks, the smart fans and the wrestlers and now he can’t tell the difference between all of them. Now Dave and the wrestlers are the marks.
Uncle Dave because the markiest if them all....
He’s the pied piper of marks currently
He also used to be able to speak. Now I have no idea what's coming out of his mouth.
CVV tried so hard to respectfully allow Dave to make this entire thing make sense and Dave just couldn’t do it. Dave is so steadfast to not come out and say that it’s simply a reflection of his preferences that he looks sillier every time he talks about it. If he’d stop trying to pretend that it’s some objective measurement of anything and just acknowledge what it actually is people would stop going after him so much. People get annoyed because he refuses to concede what his system actually is and how it isn’t any objective measurement of quality and he ends up looking like a good.
Someone buy Chris Van Vliet a beer. The man just didn't let Dave gaslight him. He kept Dave on point.
Dave recently just gave Young Bucks and Hangman vs Dark Order on Rampage 4.5 stars. By his logic a nothing 6 man match on a random rampage that wasn't even 10 minutes was equivalent to a PPV caliber match.
And yet, Rock/Hogan at WM18 is 3* according to Unca Dave. He’s on the payroll, totally delusional or both.
@@zlinedavidthe match itself is basic but that’s the point for me it doesn’t have to be crazy stuff the crowd the energy the way they played with the crowd the entire time the hulk up the leg drop the reversal of roles for rock and hogan on the fly it’s absolutely 5 stars it’s a classic
For uncle Dave and his childlike autism brain it's whatever hits the dopamine in his head that makes a match 5 stars and beyond.
@@JohnSmith-wh2obcrowd alone makes the match 3.5 stars from the get go at rock Vs Hogan. And it was still very good.
"But you know", "Not really but", "You know it's like"
Jesus Christ, Meltzer needs more periods in a sentence than Jon Moxley needs blood every match.
When chris brought up kenny omega having multiple 5 stars and Dave’s reaction was like yeah so? 😂
By “tons of 4 3/4⭐️ matches” Dave is referring to 3 of them during Kurt Angle’s entire career
About the MMA thing? Dave spent a good ten - probably closer to fifteen - years constantly harping that wrestling needed to be more like it. More grounded, more "realistic", etc. And then he does a 180 the second AEW is announced.
It's amazing to hear how many words Meltzer uses to say absolutely nothing.
Reminds me of Tony on Ariels show 🤣
@@Melo_Soul yeah, Tony does the corporate non-answer thing while his eyes bug out of his head, and Dave chews on marbles and calls them words.... both take 8 mins to answer a "yes or no" question.... saying both yes and no, while somehow not saying either... 🤣
Word salad
That's literally how he's made any kind of name for himself. You ever see some of those Observer issues??? Just *walls* of rambling text.
He's the original influencer. His entire thing is just....non-stop content. It's meaningless, but it's non stop. This dude every week on his show will ramble on and on about why AEW got a .0000001 rating this week and a .0000002 rating last week. MEANINGLESS nonsense.
He's an absolute hack and he needs to go away.
@@chrischar9428 salad is giving it too much credit
Don’t EVER underestimate how far bullshitting can take you in life. It’s an art.
And Dave is a master in this field
Looked up the list the other day the fact RVD OR KURT ANGLE don’t have a 5 star match is WILD!
Dave saying in the interview that five star matches are only for the Elite matches will never not be hilarious
Also Chris Van Vliet is awesome
Can't upvote cos 69 but yeah
I watch a lot of Chris Van Vliet's interviews and in general the tone to his interviews are very friendly and very light. It's weird listening to him grill someone using that same tone of voice.
Also Chris is right, TNA had some absolute bangers back in the day that maybe should have gotten 5 stars.
I was feeling the same way, I definitely enjoyed it though.
I often joke how the Impact Zone is the opposite of the Tokyo Dome. People joke about Meltzer would rate a match higher if it was in the Tokyo Dome, I say he would rate matches higher if they weren't in the Impact Zone.
Impact still has bangers as seen with Josh Alexander's title reign. Sadly, I really believe Meltzer is a massive Impact hater and always was. I'm sorry but it's laughable how he only thought one match in 21+ years was a five star and that match was nearly 18 years ago. Meanwhile, he breaks his scale repeatedly for AEW and New Japan. Even WWE, a company people say he's hard on, has gotten four of their matches five star ratings in the last 13 months.
❤Prime TNA
@@ryanporzl1990 Yes, the Impact Zone is the opposite of the Tokyo Dome. One seats a couple hundred people sitting there asleep, the other seats up to 60k with some of the hottest main events in wrestling.
@@DreamDimensions-hv4lg You clearly haven't watched an Impact show.
The thing he’s desperately trying not to say is that he wants five stars to be incredibly hard to attain for wrestling overall, but he also has a vested interest in the people he anointed as the best currently working to be seen at that level, and he wants AEW to be perceived as the greatest wrestling company currently running, so the best way to accomplish that in his mind is to pump them full of stars as quickly as possible.
Never explain yourself. It's a sign of weakness.
Happy 300 episodes Jim I hope you'll make it to 400!
I milestone for sure!! 😎
If it’s about the audience reaction, how does he explain Rock vs Hogan getting 3 stars?
Because Hogan. That's it.
8:40 that was so out of pocket and I love it😂
Chris Van Vliet making a complete arse of Meltzer TO HIS FACE is absolutely brilliant!😅