McIlroy, Reed embedded golf ball rulings at Farmers Insurance Open
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- Опубликовано: 30 янв 2021
- In the third round of the 2021 Farmers Insurance Open at Torrey Pines (South), Patrick Reed and Rory McIlroy are each given relief as a result of an embedded ball per USGA rule 16.4. Reed’s situation came on the par-4 10th hole and McIlroy’s on the par-5 18th. PGA TOUR Rules Official Ken Tackett explains what happened during each ruling in a conversation with CBS’ Jim Nantz.
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The Farmers Insurance Open features a star-studded field - including two-time FedExCup winner Rory McIlroy and past champion Jon Rahm - from the scenic Torrey Pines Golf Course in La Jolla, California, near San Diego. Reigning champion Marc Leishman looks to become the event's fourth back-to-back winner, while Jason Day and Jordan Spieth make their calendar-year debuts. There's a robust group of local products teeing it up at Torrey Pines, led by multi-time TOUR winner Xander Schauffele (who went to San Diego State), and of course, Phil Mickelson - who is coming to Torrey Pines after hosting The American Express.
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I would’ve placed it on the fairway screaming “Found it”😆
🤣
Thanks for the advice Donald.
@tryingtobefairandobjective3480 you're pathetic
The issue in this case is a large majority of people trust Rory and a large majority don’t trust Patrick.
correct - well said
Exactly - they were identical situations.
my concern comes from the fact that whats to stop ether player from pushing their ball into the ground issentially creating a crater, id much quicker believe that patrick could do that but i dont think rory would
@@theowedge8245- totally agree with this
and this is the only issue and why all players should wait for a rules official to come before moving the ball
People trust Rory but not Patrick based on their reputations and good or bad, you have to earn a reputation.
The rules official can't confirm a ball is embedded if the ball has already been moved. Period.
Yup. There are prob a thousand indentations in that grass within a 10 foot radius.
Right?
The rules official doesn't have to make the call in the first place, the player is allowed to make the call based on their own judgement, just like Rory had done. If anything, Reed was actually going the extra mile to check he was doing everything right. Ironically had he not called the rules official, he wouldn't have his reputation being dragged through the mud, and he would still have been following the rules.
@@namelastname8872 he knew exactly what he was doing, if you've played golf once in your life you can feel if a ball is embedded.
@@faretheewell3711 the volunteer said it didn't bounce. Hit a ball that high and far, and the person closest to it says it didn't bounce, there is a high chance that ball is imbedded.
There's two differences between these examples that may be relevant. Firstly, it's conceivable--but yes, improbable--that Rory's ball nestled back down into the impression created by his shot. The camera angle is front-on, so it's hard to judge the distance, if any, that the ball travelled on that first bounce. The camera angle on Reed's shot is unequivocal though - the ball hops at least half a foot from where the shot first lands. Unless his ball came to rest in a previous players' indent, his ball should have been just sitting down in the grass.
Secondly, Reed is quick to interpret the marshall's "Ah no, I didn't see it bounce" as "No it didn't bounce." This could be innocent enough, and Reed certainly doesn't want to hear that it bounced, so I think we should allow a bit of leeway for some expected motivated reasoning. What needed to happen here is the marshall stepping forward and clarifying her comment, i.e., "Just to be clear, I said I didn't see it bounce, not that it didn't bounce." I get it that you're on live TV, there's a famous sportsperson involved, but miscommunications like this create the grey areas where stuff like this happens.
All of this is true, but the rules are still in play. If he was uncertain, he didn't have to call anyone over prior to lifting the ball just the same as Rory didn't. And if the marshall didn't think it was embedded when he felt the ball mark, he could've had him replace the ball and hit it... whereas, Rory didn't even take that measure (and he didn't have to).
I'm not a fan of Reed's, but he's a victim of his own reputation here, IMO. Your points are valid, though.
neither ball was imbedded
@@slickrick2470 Yes, I think so too, but Rory did the correct thing (if he was to take an advantage), called the playing partners first, lifted the ball to check, THEN PUT IT BACK IN THE SAME SPOT AS HE FOUND IT, Patrick did not do that. Rory's partners could have easily come to have a look and dispute it and he probably would have played the ball as it lies. If Patrick did the same thing as Rory, and the playing partners might just say go ahead and take a drop then.... we wouldn't be talking about this thing all over the internet now. He wanted to cheat that's why he asked did anyone saw the ball bounce...who asks that? He was already looking for a backup reason to cheat.
Well said
Good point, well made. They should revert to balls only capable of being embedded in close cropped parts of the course - in the rough, you take your medicine.. and would allow Langer to win into his 70s :)
Is Patrick on the Board of RobinHood?
The rules says embedded in its own pitch mark which means the first bounce the ground may have been broken but definitely not the second bounce. Reed actions like digging the ball out from the ground is lol. Very much cheating.
LMAO I think he may be
🤣
@@melvinlow5283 he must think we're all idiots. He says very quickly...those that were asked if the ball bounced replied not that it didn't bounce but the volunteer woman said TWICE actually, didn't SEE it bounce. And the other bollex excuse of slowing down the game. I watched him palm the freaking BALL!!!! He has totally illigitamized the Gentleman's game. From now on I will watch games without him.
@@melvinlow5283 You don't know what you're talking about.
his caddy cleaned the ball. that's not allowed
LOL…Love how he’s pursing his lips during the Patrick Reed explanation as if in disbelief, but his nodding in agreement when the same explanation is given for Rory….LOL…
Laughable, reading some of these comments... People be like, "Why didn't anyone else see the ball bounce in slow motion and multiple angles, like I just did".. 😂🤣
I saw it bounce without slow motion and with one camera angle. Let's not overlook the fact that reed said if a ball bounces it's impossible to get imbedded. And we all know now that it bounced, so riddle me that batman!!!
Right?
@@CoutureThug the answer lies in a song from 1974
How did he find the ball embedded if it actually bounced ? Food for thought....
crazy
Looked like he may have been pressing the ball down. Regardless ridiculous
That's the point. And PGA Tour just trying to ignore the fact.
They said it didn’t bounce so he knew he had a chance. He definitely knew what he was doing
@@tony.f5874 They did not say it didn't bounce, they said they didn't see it bounce, they are different. if patrick had lifed the ball before the official got there how is the offical suposed to see that it was embedded, As it did bounce there cant be an embedded dent where he picked the ball from so i dont know what the official saw to be proved that the ball had been embedded before being lifted.
The spotter said it did not bounce. We saw it on tape, but all he has to go by is what the spotter said.
He should of left the ball where it was then he would of had to play it. Cheat
The spotter said she didn’t see it bounce not that it didn’t.
@@joedaily1 exactly he should of moved it untill officials came
Doesn't matter anyway though, there was no the ball was plugged.... So no it doesn't matter what the spotter says....
@@chriscampbell3055 If we are going to determine whether Reed is a cheat or not, i think it is important what the spotter said. We have to understand what evidence Reed had available to him before he made the call to move his ball. If people who witnessed the shot couldn't tell him whether it bounced or not, it can be seen as reasonable given the ground conditions that his ball was plugged. Legally, he is allowed to make the call without the use of a rules official anyways. Ironically he went the extra mile by checking that he is following the rules correctly, which has been confirmed by multiple officials that he was following the rules, but people are saying that he only called the rules official in the first place due to a case of "guilty conscience". Ha! No good deed goes unpunished.
He can win tournaments but he can’t win respect
Brilliantly put
I dont think he cares about peoples respect either lol
Rory will continue to cheat and not get called out, it is what it is
Certainly not with the bias against him and the double standards that get applied. That doesn't help anyone.
Ol' Pat definitely did some crafty pressing down before he lifted and removed the ball from its spot. It's sad because the guy has a sweet game without the cheating.
Shame isn’t it 🤦♂️
He literally followed the rules exactly. But because it's Reed, people say he's cheating lmao.
With good reason
Because there is no way Reeds balk plugged after a small bounce like that through 4” of grass
Wonder why that would be? The half dozen videos of him cheating to improve his lie in previous matches perhaps?
@@charlesthronesbery5601 what if it went inside another hole
@@MartinPCI he would have to play it as it lies. What he did here that was a true sign of being a good chest is checked that no one saw it bounce. Everyone said they didn’t see it so that gave him free reign to plug it himself. He even said there’s no way the ball could plug off a bounce..he said that before he found out it did bounce.
Rule #1
The player should always know the rules.
This here is a beautiful example.
Rule #2
When embed, call the marshal instead.
%100 right. Your golf IQ cant comprehend so yeah : your awesome
meaning he got away with free relief
@@Zug75 exactly chap . He used the rules for his advantage.
bad take especially with golf. golf has so many obscure rulings like you apparently cant move grass 20 feet in front of your ball. not sure exactly what reed did but it seems to me that he asked a question and proceeded pretty well with it and didnt seem that he knowingly wanted to cheat
Both of these should not have been allowed - they were not embedded. However, Patrick takes it to the next level.
Scoop Reed is my favorite golfer and the inspiration for my scoop wedge. The scoop wedge is a patent pending scoop on the back of a wedge or any iron to eliminate those nasty unwanted mounds whilst in the bunker. Thanks Scoop!
If the ball would of went straight down and stayed there there's a possibility it could of been embedded but the damn ball bounced a foot and dropped no way that ball was embedded from 1 foot drop
Exactly jord a being embedded means it just plugs straight into the ground. They do not hit the ground then bounce up. Both those shots were not embedded shots as we know it. Maybe in those situations they should have an official refering it for replay. Then they would have seen both shots bouncing and therefore not embedded. They probably don't to speed up play I guess
@@btet19 and therein "lies" room for manipulation. Why make the rules then don't follow them? Young golfers looking on will think that's ok. NOT!!!!
As mentioned above, it's important to remember the players and all that witnessed the shot told Reed that it didn't bounce. Based on that, is it not fair play for him to proceed as if it hadn't bounced and assume it could be plugged?
The marshall said it was all good. As long as the check clears Patrick.
like pro sports there's black money, under the table involved, so sad how the pga has turned into : ( betting odds gambling and like fan duel or draft kings, pga tour could be scripted to with these weird loopholes in the rules of golf reed and others might do to. or they miss short putts on purpose to win or lose could be staged. we just cant tell their that good at like like acting.
@@Zug75 Have another one, ray.
@@ohwowthatsgood “couple too-tree fingers of a pour with a like like floater two top it off they’re :” ...how’d I do?
The marshals are volunteers who are not even required to know the rules of the game. There is no way they are making that call. I think you meant rules official?
It looks like he pushed the ball down into the ground before he picked it up, to make a depression for the rules official.
He pushed down a tee, he was marking the ball, with a tee.
Same question how did rules official know where Reeds ball had been.
He did everything correctly, not sure why ppl are complaining
And you can see through the grass..yeah DAF
Conclusion: You earn your reputation.
If the finger doesnt fit, you must acquit. LOL!!!!!!!
lol good one
The volunteer or Marshall said “ no, I didn’t see it bounce”. Patrick knew he would possibly use the embedded excuse before the round, because of the conditions . He saw that bad lie and said to himself “ I’m using the embedded excuse here.” The Marshall lady contributed to this debacle in some way. Patrick picking up the ball and moving it is problematic, like he didn’t think the official would agree it was embedded if he saw it “ still there in the original spot “. Patrick got the bad confusing info from the lady, then Patrick did what we now know Patrick does, which is ....A propensity to try and “ manipulate his lie”. He is an opportunist when it comes to his lie. Other golfers don’t go “there”....he does
Did everything accordingly with the rules, in front of cameras and like hundreds of people watching him = cheating somehow
Ken Tackett has a future in politics. Double talk.
i can see him running for public office
Whether it was embedded or not Patrick has a jaded history that will follow him around for the rest of his career and he knows it. He just doesn’t care. If he really wanted to show his integrity he would have called the rules official before lifting the ball.
Albert Einstein said he wouldn’t play golf he couldn’t work out the rules either 😂😂🇬🇧
Looked to me like he pushed the ball into the ground in order to make the 'lip' as he identified it. There no way that ball plugged after a bounce. imo years of practice cheating. The volunteer said "I didn't see it bounce". Huge difference to it didn't at all.
he still didn't mark the ball before lifting and he cleaned it. He broke the rules
What you think is pushing the ball was him marking the spot with a tee... pushing in the tee... and he did NOT clean the ball and told his caddie... don’t clean the ball.... you guys are deaf and blind....
Cheater Cheater Biscuit Eater!!
What's to say that the lip wasn't there before his ball landed in it?
@@nopressuregolf He marked the ball, and he informed his playing partner he was going to mark it. Did you not watch the video?
This boils down to people don’t like Patrick Reed... that’s all
Patrick has a history of cheating. He has earned his dislikes.
Everything he did was within the rules. The volunteers said they didn't see a bounce, the rule allows you to move the ball and the official gave him the green light to drop. Idk what all of your problems are. The PGA allowed it so time for you to get over it.
He pushed it down. Just look at the up & down motion of his ✋
There is zero chance that Rorys shot landed back on the pitch mark after bouncing. The camera angel makes it seem that could be the case but if you look very closely you can tell it bounced at least a foot ahead of the original mark. Both players bent the rules to gain an advantage and it’s hilarious that Rory is getting a free pass while Reed is being chastised. And you can bet that at least a dozen other players did the same thing that day that wasn’t caught on camera.
Rory doesn’t cheat
Never once been accused or caught cheating
The other player not so much.
No evidence that either bent the rules. It's possible that Reed's ball landed in divot created by a previously embedded ball or from a shot, and Reed probably didn't see it bounce from his perspective. The entire situation is probably innocent
@@imtheman4805 Reed has never been caught cheating either, people accuse him of cheating. There's a difference. The people who claim he has cheated are basing their accusations on speculation and mind reading
@lrn_news9171
FatPrick was caught cheating 8 times
Peter Kostis stated he saw him cheat on 5 separate occasions.
Everyone knows he cheats but apparently YOU!!!
Reed's ball clearly bounced several feet, so if it was embedded its because he pushed it down... Rory's bounced straight up and back into the same spot.. but if the rule states you don't need an official ruling, its players judgement then so be it
Several feet?? It was no more than 20 inches I promise. May be even less than a foot
Lol rory's ball bounced forward atleast a foot... but keep telling yourself that
@@GolfLikeTrev go to that course, walk it off and come back with an exact measurement
@@bretwells3610 and so what if it did? doesn't make my comment any less valid
@@Saskman73 you said rory's bounced straight up and then down back into his pitch mark... which would make rory's situation totally different than Reed's. They both took advantage of this rule and probably other golfers as well.
We can see it hop from the replay. It went about 6-8" from the landing. So he marked his ball and removed it. The official said he could feel a lip. I think Reed had the official evaluate the first divot and not the hop divot.
Patrick was supposed to get 4 strokes penalty. 1 for lifting the ball and then 1 for placing the ball he did not drop like he said in the interview. He did not win the tournament.
To shut you all up, he won by 5 shots.
exactly he smoked the field
They need to modify this rule. As the commentators stated, it's getting way to easy to just pick up the ball. Change the rule to read, "In tournament play, an embedded ball must be verified by a course rules official prior to picking the ball up or moving it." These guys are playing for a million dollars, there is no room for people who cheat or seek an unfair advantage in this game.
Really? Cheat? Advantage? Really? And to shut you up, he won by 5 shots.
I thought he did verify with an official. I'm not really sure what else he could have done.
@@jaybird9988 did you read the comment you’re replying to? OP is claiming there should be an addendum to the rules saying an official should verify before a ball is even allowed to be removed. Very simple - and I agree.
Totally agree. A plugged lie can most easily be determined by an official when the ball is plugged, or supposedly plugged. Letting the player remove it and then call for a ruling seems at odds with the character of almost every other rule in golf.
@@pichoharispe 1st place isn’t the only spot awarded points, standings, or money. OP’s point far exceeds this single situation. Ever seen the delta in prize money between 3rd & 4th? Heck, let’s take it further and look at 29th and T18 in this tourney for example...$29,386.36. I’ll give it to ya that the rules officials stand by their actions, but are you gonna keep your mouth shut if the person 1 stroke ahead of you did something like that given the video we see now, with that kinna money on the line? We all play golf for our own reasons, money is not the sole driving factor, but still - to his point; at this level before a ball is picked up it seems incredibly reasonable and appropriate to have an official take a look. (Which is also something most tour players do already in these situations)
These two are so good
At the apex of the bounce, both balls magically turned into lead.
good old days when you had to play the ball as it was
cause reed knows how to cheat and get away with it.
These guys ain't that good today to play it as you found it or take a few penalty strokes! Hit it in the fairway pros!😂🤣😄😉😆😣😥😏😋🤔
@@davidgivins4203 lol who are you
@@davidgivins4203 I play Club Golf and on some courses we get relief on the fairway from Pitch marks. Neither did anything wrong and were within the rules. And the Old days of play it were it lies, never existed. Those rules have existed for over a hundred years. So the ball ends up next to a Camera Tower, how do you play that? You get relief.
Like the good old day when Trump kicked his playing partners ball into the bunker? lol
I don’t like reed, and he does have a history that goes against him, however I don’t believe he’s in the wrong in any way here
It’s impossible to know if he pushed the ball down when “checking it” to create the lip. His ball did not come down with enough force to create a pitch mark in that length grass. There should not have been a lip.
@@garrettnobles8956 the grasses burner account has been detected
@@garrettnobles8956 like you said impossible to know. Why jump right to the negative? The guy def cheated a couple times but lets not jump on him with both feet
@@miketampabay9446 he himself said it was impossible to imbed if it bounced. the reason he checked with the volunteer was to see if he had an opportunity to cheat: no bounce = possibility of embedded ball, or of embedding the ball and getting a drop. the physics is not in his favor. he cheated.
@@tonycarter6321 how do you know there wasn't indentation from prior play? You don't, neither do i, crazier things have happened. I know once people view someone a certain way, that person is dead to them. I try not to be that way. Rory had the exact same situation
The PGA Tour / TV coverage is using a disingenuous rhetorical tactic here by only focusing on the question of “Did Patrick Reed break Rule 16-4” and acting like it’s the entirety of the argument, concluding that he did not break Rule 16-4, and subsequently assuming that this means that he did not cheat. Yes, they do correctly show that the procedure he took was legal by Rule 16-4. However, a question that’s far more important and damning towards Reed that was conveniently left out of the video is “Was the ball actually embedded, and if not, did Reed deliberately influence the Rules Official into deciding that the ball was embedded by destroying the evidence that would have shown that the ball was not embedded.” The answer to this is likely that the ball was never embedded, and that Reed’s motivation for quickly and deliberately marking and removing the ball was to destroy the evidence that the ball wasn’t embedded, and to make the situation ambiguous enough to allow the rules official to give him the benefit of the doubt. If this is indeed what happened, then it is a breach of Rule 1-3 which can be penalized.
Neither one saw the ball bounce, both asked the questions and made a decision based on info available at the time, so all the "weekend amateur warriors" can go back to be just that and not try to be the angels that they are not. Say what you want about Reed and his past, but he did all the right thing there.
He should of left it where it was Hese a cheat, it was never embedded off that second bounce
@@benlovekin6151 You say that because you saw the reply, they can't see the ball from where they stood. How can you cheat if you don't know what actually happened? A cheater is someone who takes advantage "knowing" what really happened. Reed asked the Marshal and the rules official, he couldn't do anymore than that. Rory asked his competitive playing partner, and he's one of the most honest golfer on the tour. Please give it a break, it's nonsense to call them "cheaters".
The problem is that because Reed has a history of cheating, we are looking at it through that bias. He asked all the right questions and believe he followed the rules. Lets move on
but he has no history of cheating...
@@HashbeanSC2 what? He’s been caught cheating at least twice now
I think that bias is perfectly reasonable. A cheater usually stays a cheater, and in this situation reeds claim of it being imbedded doesn’t rly make sense
@@aidanwalsh9792 When?
@aidanwalsh9792
Actually he has been caught cheating 8 times
Peter Kostis said he saw him cheat 5 times that were separate from the recent cheating scandals
She didn't say it didn't bounce, she said she "didn't see it bounce"
Yes, that means "she did not see it bounce" You are trying to say she miss-worded and probably meant to say "i didn't see it at all land" which looked very obvious. She won't be their again ha
Did it bounce? “Uh, no. I didn’t see it bounce.”
👏🏼👏🏼 Patrick’s and Ken’s responses.
He did nothing wrong, they told him it didn’t bounce and did everything correct from there. This wasn’t his fault at all. He shouldn’t be getting the criticism he is getting.
Are you kidding? He’s a known cheater! He deserves all the criticism/critics. And more questioning!
My thing with reed is that the ball did bounce, it’s really that girl’s fault who said it didn’t bounce
That is OK, but it is not easy watching a ball come in when you have not seen it come in. And she is a Volunteer, not a rules official.
She said she didn't see it bounce, big difference from yes it plugged straight in.
@@joshclayg no body saw it bounce, so what could Reed do beside from what he did?
@@trinster928 Are saying it was embedded? lol. That 2nd bouce was onto a pillow. Thats 3-4" of plush rough. 1st thing : call for a rules official & not after you have altered the crime scene. Geeeeez
Rory’s bounced too
Im gonna start doin this and say, hey bro its embedded.
LMAO
The New Rule: In the new Rules of Golf, the wording of the rule, or “default,” has essentially been flipped. Rule 16.3 gives relief for a ball embedded anywhere in the “general area” (the new term for “through the green”). The Committee may adopt a Local Rule restricting that relief to areas cut to fairway height or less in the general area. But it’s likely most won’t opt to do so. In short, instead of enacting a Local Rule to get the relief, relief will now be given across the board unless a specific Local Rule is enacted to restrict relief. Why It Was Changed: According to the USGA, this change makes sense because, regardless of whether your ball is in the fairway or rough, having to play a ball that is stuck in wet or soft ground “should not be considered part of the normal challenge of playing a course.” Additionally, other relief Rules do not make distinctions based on the height of the grass in the general area.
Will It Be Controversial? This Rules change is likely a welcome one, and isn’t expected to incite any controversy.
How It Can Help You: If you happen to be faced with an embedded ball, the Local Rule allowing relief is now the default, which should help eliminate confusion.
And this is in Rule 16. 4
If relief is allowed and the player takes relief, there is no penalty even if the player did not mark the spot of the ball before lifting it or cleaned the lifted ball.
Hahaha. Its only when the course is wet from rain
The issue I have is a layup five iron that bounced in the rough isn’t embedded. Maybe some have been getting away with it for so long it’s become somewhat normal.
I don’t disagree with the embedded ball aspect, he was told it did not bounce. He DID break the rule by cleaning the ball. It specifically states you cannot clean an embedded ball unless on the green.
REED is having the last laugh with the W LOL..
He's despised by most players and fans. He's a fool if he's laughing.
Funny to see how much higher the scores are on sunday once they started enforcing this.
@@harrisonfunke8466 Who cares as long as you get the W lol..let em weep
@@DTB1995 I’m guessing you are new to the game or you play with a Magic eraser. Chump!!!
This guy is truly a legendary “cheat” or “magician”..in all my years of playing competitive golf in rain drenched Asia, I’ve never seen a ball bounce out of its pitch mark and make another..come on PGATOUR wake up!!
I imagine the on course announcers all have several stories of him cheating, but are not allowed to comment on it.
@@MrYoshi-ly6me Peter Kostis has called him out. Has said he’s seen Reed handful of times improve his lie. He stamps down grass behind the ball with his iron.
@@DLR528 they all do. give me a break. they all push their wedges down behind the ball before every green side chip or pitch.
I agree, but does that just apply to Reed's ball or can McElroy's ball bounce out of its pitch mark and make another? Unlike Reed, McElroy was in serious contention to win the tournament.
He followed the procedure pretty well, but my money is on him poking a hole, digging around and breaking the dang ground himself lol
He pushed into the ground alright but that was a tee, he was marking the ball
The issue is not the rules, but the fact that he kept messing with the lie. We can clearly see him touching the lie after having removed the ball.
Also, the drop of Rory did not give him an advantage. That is the opposite for Patrick, his drop gave him an advantage.
The organisation should put an official next to him in all tournaments, at least in Major.
You know what the clear difference is... Rory didn't search for some patch of grass that was better than the other. He didn't look to take advantage of the rule. Reed, on the other hand, looked for this 1x1 patch of grass that was stepped down and not as lush. I can't say weather or not Reed did anything to his ball when he checked it to see if it was embedded, but he took advantage of the rule and improved his lie afterwards.
Every ball in the rough would be embedded at Torrey pines IMAO. Players are taking advantage of the rule. It’s gotta change.. They should call the official first to see if it’s truly embedded.
yep he cheated
I see a lot of people saying that just because Reed's shot bounced means it couldn't be embedded. We don't know how soft that ground is. it could have bounced out of a thick tuft of grass, and then down into really soft ground that had less grass around it. Both shots bounced before coming to rest. I find it interesting that the reputation of the players plays an unfair role here. Reed has the rep of being "loose" with the rules, yet he follows the rules and even asks for an official - which he clearly doesn't HAVE to do. Even Nantz says that Rory has an "impeccable" image (something he doesn't say about Reed), and he's even more loose with the rules (if you want to call it that). He doesn't bother to get an official's input. This was a non-issue turned into an issue because of a reputation that might not even be earned.
Rules in place. Patrick follows the rules. What’s the issue?
Wow... I was under the impression that an embedded ball had to actually be, you know, embedded in the ground. Not just sitting in a bad lie close to a mark on the ground.
Oh it was embedded all right, in deep rough. Makes me sick for so called pros to not take the high road. Just hit it son.
Nailed it!
Pros get soooo many advantages with the rules. Imagine if we had a grand stand as a backboard on every hole
If it broke the ground and it is that soft then it can get embedded. I've played in soggy conditions where I drop from the knee and it breaks ground. He did everything right and then some. And the pros get rules breaks cause they know all of them. Study up son and you can get some breaks too!! @Chris @K Harris
He asked if it bounced. What kind of question is that? Before you even see it
@Tony you don't need to know if it bounced or not. As a golfer you just go up to your ball and play it. And you shouldn't have to question the ball until you see it. He was anticipating breaking the rules before he even saw his ball. That's my point.
@Tony besides with a rules official literally 15 seconds away. A normal player would see that he has an embedded ball and get an official to verify it to avoid this. Especially if your a golfer with a bad reputation. The guy is just a weasel.
@@BOOGiNS you don’t know much about competitive golf do you
I think he's asking because of the condition of course was very soft ground same with rory asking because they all know it's going to plug easy in wet soggy ground must not been best condition to play golf
@@zachkingsland5224 child please
Bouncing has nothing to do with the ruling.
The ball is either embedded or not, and if embedded, the player is entitled to a free drop, no rules official needed.
It’s time, @pgatour, it’s time.
"They said it didn't bounce", no no, that's not at all what she said. What she said was, "No I didn't SEE it bounce", completely different.
Yeah but for all he and his player partners know, the ball didn’t bounce. What the volunteer should have said was, I’m not sure either way.
It’s pretty much him taking her word for it, which is what any other player would have done. You’re arguing semantics, if nobody in the group saw it bounce, then the volunteer said I don’t see it bounce (whether it did or not) he took her word for it and proceeded in a way any player who knows the rule would have done
True this my good statistical friend!
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence
It's not like Reed picked up his ball, cleaned it, and didn't let anyone else look at the lie before he dropped... that was Rory.
Good call!
Exactly. They give Rory a pass on everything and pine for him all day hoping he'll win another tournament. Shameless broadcasting.
Exactly, Maybe they can dig up the two college teammates/ insurance salesmen to bad mouth him some more.
People with a track record of integrity get the benefit of doubt and those who are shady get more shade. On your money games you watch certain “friends” closer than others. That’s life stop complaining and play.
Its as much his playing partners fault for not taking the time to walk down and look at it himself. Unfortunately in golf for something like this, the agreement between the playing partners is binding even if it is based on reputation. Hes got a good reputation and hasnt been seen digging a hole to china in the sand so nuff said lol
He just kept talking so he would eat up time and not get anymore questions. Smart
Firestorm? It's BS. It does not matter what the camera saw, live play is live play. The officials call was "I didn't see it bounce", it disappeared down a hole caused by whatever, a second official agreed on site, he dropped and continued play. What Firestorm can there be???
When golfing, you are your biggest referee. Every golfer learns everyday regardless of levels, not justifies. Hate to urge for regulations because of wrongdoings, rather I hope PGA promotes culture of honesty, integrity and decency. I know it might sound old, but it is the value that defines golf, a sport I love above anything.
PGA has no integrity with only one black golfer on tour including the lesser tour!🤔
@@davidgivins4203 Cameron Champ? Tony Finau? Are you just thinking of Tiger?
@@davidgivins4203 Are you saying people should get a free pass to the tour based on skin color instead of earning that spot? You should delete your racist comment.
@@mitchellgibson257 I'm being kind when I say one.! Calvin Pete was the last black golfer on the PGA. Asian mother, white, mother, etc causes you to be mixed, biracial as they are!
@@davidgivins4203 so how do you think the PGA is unfairly stopping black minorities playing?
I'm no Patrick fan at all but why are we all calling Patrick for this when Rory did the exact same thing (or less as no referee) when Rory seems invisible...yes Patrick has clearly and proven on camera cheats but not here...of course it helped he kept his back to the camera but I'm sure that was not on purpose...maybe
because Patrick Reed later said "if the ball bounces a few feet into a different spot, its impossible for it to embed itself" and sure enough on the replay his ball in fact DID bounce itself into a different spot from the spot it actually landed and it apparently embedded itself... He really doesnt have a leg to stand on and its his own fault..
because no.1 a ball bouncing two feet in the air cannot embed itself....so the ball wasn't embedded to begin with. No. 2 he picked the ball up, palmed it, and removed it from it's spot before anyone else took a look at it. For someone of his character and reputation you would think this would be of upmost importance. He simply doesn't give a damn. The rules official said, ok it was plugged, thus granting Patrick a license to steal.
@@iamfodder1017 the rules official felt the alleged hole and said he felt a rim so had to say that it must have been plugged....Rory asked for NO official....just said it had been plugged....NO replay showed his ball to jump back from 2 feet high and 're plug in the exact same spot...while I admit I am no reed fan he asked for official and used a club for club distance....Rory did neither of these 2 things....while it was ok to call reed a cheat when he did it as soon as Rory did the same with those 2 protocols missing you cannot call reed if you don't call Rory...unless your saying the filmed evidence was fake.....
Because Rory has a history of being a stand-up guy on the golf course without a demonstrated history of cheating/bending the rules like Patrick Reed. It's that simple. I don't believe for a moment that Rory would intentionally cheat. On the other hand I would expect Patrick Reed to cheat given the opportunity.
@@wanlover477 Rory has no form for cheating and never seems to try to gain any sort of advantage. I dont recall him ever trying to get a ruling that would help him unless completely justified. With all he has achieved in the game why choose this tournament to suddenly change his MO? Further after the fuss over Reed earlier in the week why would you do the exact same thing? Unless the ball was genuinely embedded.
Reed on the other hand has a history of blatantly cheating and being caught. He has every reason to do it because it is what he does. There's a very good chance he improved the hole pushing the ball into the ground while looking at it then got an official to give a ruling to basically gloss over his action.
Now while I agree the incidents are very similar, you must understand why so many people condemn Reed and not Rory.
Whether the ball bounced or not, has zero outcome if the ball is in fact embedded. Patrick is under the impression saying, “if the ball didn’t in fact bounce, “then his conclusion, is it has to be embedded, which is false.
If Reed had asked the lady official if she had "seen the ball dropped", probably she would have said "No, I did not see the ball dropped".
Because she didn't see it drop, of course she didn't see it bounce.
So.... It's a question of not seeing the ball drop that she concluded she did not see it bounce.
If she had seen the ball drop, she would have seen it bounced once.
In my opinion, that lady's verdict was what Reed used as his next course of action, as he presumed was permitted as per the rules.
Reed is very lucky to have no fans on the course for the round Sunday. A normal event the spectators would have ate him alive for that embedded ball trick. The outcome may have been a little different. Other players could have at least picked up on the atmosphere and pushed back a little more. The last 9 holes could have been some of the most boring golf I have seen in my life. No sense of wanting to win after reed sucked the life out of the tournament Saturday.
Oh, please dude. I know Reed's reputation is not the best, but in this case he did nothing wrong. You can clearly hear the course marshall tell him that she did not see the ball bounce. Then the rules official said he felt a lip which would indicate an imbedded ball. What more do you want him to do?
@@paulmaile8175 I wasn't watching I didn't see it bounce either
@@WCGwkf Wes Steele saw the ball bounce through his hateful eyes.
If there were fans it probably would have hit someone and given him an even better lie after the deflection.
100% of golf fans know he’s a Cheater
That we can all agree on!
it's very simple. With Reed's history, he should have called over an official before touching anything. Talent comes and goes; but your good or bad name is remembered for ever.
Good point, well made. He's gotta be squeaky clean.. good enough to let a shot ride.
The Marshal stated that she "didn't see it bounce". She - Did Not Say that the ball didn't bounce. Big difference. Had the Marshal watched the ball land, she would have also watched the ball clearly bounce about a foot high. Ergo, she didn't see the ball bounce. Reed went on to tell the rulers official that the Marshal stated that the ball "Didn't Bounce" which was clearly not true. Reed mistated to the rules Official what the Marshal said and literally mistated her words. Reed took advantage of the situation based on his inability to listen to the marshal and interpret her statement. After that point there are many other comments that state the many other problems in Reeds handling of this situation.
You can see the balls bounce. I’ve played enough golf to know that a ball bouncing less than 2 feet cannot be imbedded, even in wet conditions.
Doesn't mean the ball didn't land in a divot caused by a previously embedded ball or a divot caused by a previous shot.
Rule 16.4 needs revised... Per Patrick's cheating in the eyes of golf fans.
It had to be in fairway for this relief until Jan 2019 and you can see why. Pretty much impossible to determine whether a ball is "below the level of the ground" in deep rough. I think they should revert to the previous rule. Clearly neither player was entitle to relief given that their balls bounced but they could not see that. At least Reed asked for a ruling.
We all saw the ball take a hope forward, and didn't come to rest where his ball originally landed, if you look, Patrick starts fiddling with the ball then tells his playing partners that he wants to check it... Miraculously his ball either came to rest in a different pitch mark, or he straight up embedded his own ball by pushing it down when he was fiddling with the lie, so that's why he called the rules official over to show him that the ball was embedded, which would somewhat justify him taking relief. Plus, since we all know he's a cheater, calling the official over will make it seems less likely he cheated if they concurred with his ball being in a pitch mark.
You win the stupidest comment of the day. LOL
@@trinster928 The day is still young, I don't doubt your ability to top it.
@@hurfdurfy8167 not after you arrived. LOL
That's not "miraculously". Idk if you watch golf at all but a lot of weird things happen in golf, heck a hole in one is way more unlikely than landing in an old pitch mark
"we all know he's a cheater"
We don't, not everyone agrees with this accusation, there's no actual evidence of Reed deliberately cheating.
They are not nearly same baldhead, it's completely different. Rory's ball bounced straight up into the same spot where it hit the ground first and peedhead's ball landed away from the first spot which physically cannot get embedded.
No way a ball that bounces a foot in the air becomes imbedded. And, given his history, why on earth remove the ball before an official arrives to remove it themselves, and provoke criticism? There’s no way that ball was imbedded.
Reed was leaning down for a while, with various hand movements. That essentially makes the situation suspicious for him. Rory picked his up straight away and is renowned for his integrity - we trust him. There’s the difference
in your mind
Rory -Trustworthy
FatPrick - Not at All
No way the ball was embedded after a small bounce lol that’s crazy
So Rory cheated too?
@@samjames8690 Yeah, both did. Both balls bounced ones. No way it's embedded on the second bounce.
Reeds took a bigger hop forward, but no one saw it, so he has to go on what information he has. Rory's ball bounced straight up and back into the hole, but again, no one saw it bounce, so ditto the same as Reed. And as the PGA saw nothing wrong, then it is a non issue. And they both dropped the ball back into the long rough and played it. As a Club Golfer, I saw nothing wrong with what either did.
@@BatMan-xr8gg The thing is that even if both thought their ball didn't bounce, it would be easy to mark it, lift the ball to see if it was embedded. If it was embedded, then take a drop. If it wasn't embedded, put it back where it was.
@@casualguy3938 They both did that. They marked the spot with their tee and lifted the ball to check if it was, and then took relief because they believed it was embedded and both balls had to be cleaned before playing on. They did nothing wrong, and played by the rules
At about 2.3 minutes into this video USGA Rule 16.4 is displayed and it clearly says the ball can not be cleaned. During the Rory McIlroy segment Rory's caddie clearly cleans the ball and then hands it back to Rory. If both these balls hit the ground once and stuck I'd agree they could be embedded. How they became embedded off the second bounces is questionable to me. That being said, both players, but especially Reed, should not have done anything without a rules official present.
Reed is a victim of his own reputation here. I didn't see the Rory incident to compare but it's in his checking of the ball that's the element open for discussion. He didn't see the ball bounce, none of the playing group did and the official around the landing site said it didn't. Once the rule official came over he confirmed a lip so said embedded and therefore allowed relief. It's the question of how did it get embedded after a hop? The same applies to McIlroy of course only McIlroy didn't appear to get any advantage, he stated he didn't need a club length and dropped the ball back under the cabbage, Reed clearly gained advantage in that his ball was visible after the drop and with his reputation it opens the question.
The ball bounced a foot after landing and embedded through thick rough, really? If that is the case not sure why it didn’t embed when he took drop. What has been missed is the placing of the ball to similar position to where he will drop to see how the ball will lie which surely is breaking the rules. Not sure why you would be walking in the rough where you could potentially be taking a drop other than to gain an advantage (use the expansion joint on the path as reference). Rory was not seeking to gain an advantage, he dropped the ball in a similar lie and it was not visible after he did so. Would love to know where this “Breaking the plane” phrase came from. So you can be in the rough in aa indent of a few millimetres and get a drop but no drop if your on the fairway in a divot.
He didn’t know it bounced the volunteer said it didn’t bounce
@@deaconlarmee6249 Video shows it bounce, which proves it didn't embed. Not physically possible on the second bounce through rough with a wedge. He pushed the ball into the ground before picking it up so the official could make a "judgement call" with the ball not even there. DQ
Rory was able to get his ball out of the bottom of the rough. So yes he did improve his lie. Reed is no different than Rory...
@@bretwells3610 Rory's ball is still in the bottom of the rough not visible. The height he dropped is similar to the bounce. And where was Reed's ball after the drop? Wow sitting on the grass and you could almost see the whole ball.
@@user-je1ie9vx8f reed had to play off the down slope though and rory's ball was moved from the bottom of the rough to the middle. No difference both should have played where it lied
If he felt like he did everything right, then why the need to bring over a rules official?? I will tell you why....guilty conscience!
I don't think I follow your logic. He's trying extra hard to make sure he's following the rules. Turns out he was. What is he supposed to feel guilty about?
@@namelastname8872 point of fact: you call over a rules official BEFORE moving the ball, not after! Blatant cheater move with covering his tracks. Reed knew 100% that a rules official wouldn’t give him relief so he took it upon himself to do so.
@@swisstrader But the rules official doesn't have to make the call in the first place, the player is allowed to make the call based on their own judgement, just like Rory had done. If anything, Reed was actually going the extra mile to check he was doing everything right. Ironically had he not called the rules official, he wouldn't have his reputation being dragged through the mud, and he would still have been following the rules.
@@namelastname8872 his reputation has been dragged thru the mud for many years now, not just because of this single incident. Cheater.
@@swisstrader He may or may not have cheated in the past, I actually don't know. But on this occasion, it's been found by all officials both during and after the incident, having seen all the close up video footage, that he did not cheat.
He asked the spotter 'did you see it bounce'? She said no I didn't see it bounce. He then told the rules official that she said it didn't bounce!
That's not what she said.
Reed is one of the worst thing to ever happen to golf.
I don’t particularly like the guy but in all honesty he did everything within the rules of golf he even let his playing competitors know that he was lifting his ball and let the official make the ruling just happened to the wrong person
He shouldn't have palmed the ball. Thinking that no one caught that little act on camera. Well bud, we did. He knew it and we knew it. Not a true gentleman of the game.
0:32 ？
How exactly is that embedded? Play it where it lies.
Shouldn’t matter if it bounced or not. That does NOT have any impact on whether a ball has plugged or not plugged in it’s final landing spot
Patrick reed is the Judge Smails of the tour. He'd use a smails foot wedge if he could get away with it
He followed the rules to a tee... Explain what he did wrong. He literally did everything correctly. This only blew up because it's Reed. If it was Dustin Johnston would you care as much? Just answer me that
@@josephdurkin8180 yeah, well thats just like your opinion man - lebowski
@@theweekendhack ... it's pretty much fact. They even showed Rory do the same exact thing, even cleaned his ball, but Reed is the focus.
@@theweekendhack you saw the actual rule.. . Watch this video again read the rule and tell me what he did Wrong I would like to see your perspective on how Reed cheated. So so you think rory cheated as well?
Patrick "Rules Official said we did it perfectly" - (Sounds like a political phone call some time back)
Sounds like Trump’s description of his Ukrainian phone call.
@@themaestro5338 Exactly.
look at Jim at the end "he ain't buyin it"
I think it's the ruling itself that is in error. A player shouldn't be allowed to make the conclusion themselves. It should be checked by another player in the group before the ball is touched. If there's a disagreement then an official should be brought in. All before the ball is touched by the player of the ball. It's a simple amendment. I've never had any trouble defining an imbedded ball. Most times they're not that easy to get out.
What makes me assume he’s cheating is that he covered up the camera as he played with his lie at 0:33 while the rules official was on his way. After he played with the lie, the official felt a lip. Conclusion: Reed dug a lip. Nobody working for the tour considered that. The tour clearly is biased for reed.
Lol I didn’t see this comment but you’re the same dude who commented on my last post. Anyway this is what I was saying earlier to my boys in our group chat. Knowing Patrick Reed, this could be the point where he used the ball or his finger to dig a lip in the ground. But I honestly wanna give him the benefit of the doubt in this one instance ONLY because the volunteer said the ball didn’t bounce. If the ball doesn’t bounce, 9/10 times it’s gonna be embedded.
The ball bounced, so it was not in fact embedded. There's no way Reed didn't discover that when he first moved it. Nor McIlroy, for that matter. They cheated. Period.
"did it bounce?"
"no i didn't see it bounce"
why is there a controversy here
if you didn't see that ball bounce, the answer should have been "I didn't see it land at all"
@@krusher74 more or less saying the same thing, but yeah
Rule 16.4
Haters need to move on with your eternal search to second guess, apply personal bias, and attempt at cancel culture.
The bigger story was how well PR played on Sunday while all you haters were hating.. You missed an amazing demonstration of professional golf by Captain America.
It looks like Jim Nantz is very happy with these new rules. Especially at the end of the video.
You don’t have to call the official.
Both did well.