"They said it didn't bounce" No, they said they didn't see it bounce. Once a cheat always a cheat, he obviously pushed the ball into the ground to create an impression before he lifted it, then pushed his finger back into the hole to make sure before telling the official it had been imbedded. Even OJ's jury would not find Reed innocent on this one.
that is exactly what i was thinking,he pushed his finger into the spot more than once to create the indentation. you made a great comment and your post is right on the money. my son always says what do you mean dad,when i see p reed on tv in a tourney i always say theres the cheater...thanks for a great post my man
"They said it didn't bounce" No, they said they didn't see it bounce. Correct! Reed is a liar and it shows each time he talks. OJ's jury would find Reed guilty and OJ "not guilty". USA! USA! USA!
Reed created the broken buried ball plane, he planned it right from the moment he asked if it had bounced. Once the lady said that she didn't see it bounce, BAM...he had his plan. What a lot of folks are missing is that Patrick Reed plays golf like a soccer player plays soccer. His DNA is made for this, and he loves it. When a soccer player gets that free penalty and scores on his opponent...all stemming from that fake dive, that's Reed on the golf course getting one over on the field.
There are only two ways there was an indention in the ground exactly where his ball was: 1) His ball somehow miraculously landed in a previous ball's indention or there was some sort of indention in the ground that was caused by something else that his ball bounced into 2) He pressed the ball into the ground to create an indention for the rules official to see. Your best guess as to which one of these two things happened is as good as mine.
It's really pretty simple: If the ball didn't embed into the ground from the initial strike, going 130 yards in the air, it CANNOT embed into the same ground from an 18" bounce!
Not necessarily. That's an assumption you're making. If the ground is soft enough, it could embed from only a foot or even less. Only a part of the ball needs to be below the ground to be considered embedded. There's no way you can do anything but give him the benefit of the doubt. All players push the rules to the Max. This no exception. Trial by the public seems same as trial by social media.
@@martinhellstrom9299 I'm betting he pressed down on the ball before picking it up. He had NO business picking up his ball before calling over his playing partners and rules officials. I would have DQ'ed him for that alone.
*Reeds in his own defense said if it bounced this would have NOT have happened. Facts are it did with yours? Why yours did on high ground explain this. This is not like Rorys case on the bottom of the gulley? One excuse after another diverting attention!!!*
He hadn't even arrived at the ball before he was sniffing for 'embedded' ball relief. On approach he could see it was on a down slope out of the rough and knew if he could get a drop away from the down slope he was in much better position. Guy is an experienced cheater and this is without question another rules violation.
Im not arguing with the tour official explicitly stating he acted in accordance with the rules and this whole uproar is stupid and you are all just trying to find a reason to go after someone.
The volunteer says “oh no, i didnt see it bounce. Reed then changes their words and tells the official that the volunteer stated that the ball did not bounce. She said “didnt see” it bounce, not the same as definitively stating it did not bounce. Just by the fact that reed repeats “they said it didnt bounce” like 4+ times, that tells me he’s bullshitting.
The Volunteer did say "the ball did not bounce", she said "I did not see it bounce". Patrick said several times the volunteer said "It did not" bounce. He was wrong...he should have waited for the official to come over before starting.
How long did it take for the official to get there? So every questionable play we should stop and wait for an official for 5 minutes or more? They're not with every group dummy.
@@spi9177 Nice to see someone sticking up for him but I just find that times at the Hero tournament were improving lie and he has had other occurrences as well. Rory has done similar stuff with embedded lie but because of his past I believe he was in keeping with the integrity of the game. Watching Reed you get a much different feeling. Anyone who has seen the replay of moving sand behind the ball at the Hero’s knows it was no accident. I’d perhaps say a mistake from a twenty five handicap with a belly full of beer not noticing but at his skill level he knew.he moved sand and he kept doing it until he had a clear impact.
For those who didn't get it, the question that many are asking is, did he thump the ball into the ground while checking it? Reed himself said during the interview after the round, "if the ball bounces, it's literally impossible for the ball to plug". With that, it is very reasonable to question HOW the ball managed to break ground as he claimed it and verified by the ref.
That he did. He should have not even been near that ball until the official got there. He clearly pushed the whole in the ground. His fat azzz literally pushed it down. Because that spot where his ball landed was thick. And he wanted a better lie.
Ask the question! If by his own admission it’s impossible for a ball that bounced to be embedded, how was there a lip!? He just pressed it down when hovering over it - pretty obvious.
If you watch carefully (hands and shoulders) it looks like he leans in and pushes the ball into the ground to make sure the lip would be there, then calls for the rules official.
The problem is he didn't just pick up the ball... it really does look like he pushed it down before. In the interview after the round, he said himself it's impossible for a ball that bounced to be embedded!
Change the rule...don’t allow a player to touch the ball. Make him wait for a rule official to arrive and make a ruling before the player can mark and lift it.
@2000bcanning That's not a bad idea~but if you did that EVERY time, it'd take forever to finish a game. These guys in the PGA at this level, are under a strict timeline and if they slow play too much, they can be penalized. The PGA actually shortened the time you have to find a ball from 5 minutes to 3 minutes. In this case I just assume Reed's a cheater. I cannot stand him, even though he is a really good player. Because he cheats. The worst kind of player. In a game where honesty and above board playing are part of the fibre of the game, he stands out. He's like tRUMP. The Orange Nightmare takes a shot before everyone, no matter if it's his turn or not~runs to his cart and takes off, before others can see where his ball went and when they get to the fairway or green? His ball has magically landed in the perfect spot on the fairway/green~or~he'll kick someone else's ball off the green or throw it into the rough. Now tRUMP doesn't care who knows he cheats. His malignant narcissism won't allow him to care~he MUST WIN at all costs. I'm putting Reed ahead of the Orange Nightmare, because the Orange Nightmare literally cannot help himself. Reed can. So that makes him worse than the ON as far as cheating goes. Plus Reed will never, ever outlive the fact that no matter how he tries he'll always be known as a cheater. Forever. What a legacy! SMH And all it took, was to be honest.
Reed pulled the ball out and seemingly put it back in or at least poked his fingers in there a couple times. Long grass is cushy-er than short cut fairway grass and certainly would prevent an embedded ball pitch mark on any ball that bounced. The ball's initial velocity was absorbed at the spot of the bounce, then went to approx. knee height and that velocity then created its own pitch mark? No way.
@@mikepxg6406 she said she did not see it bounce. She obviously wasn't looking hard enough as it did bounce on video. She shld have said she didn't see it land. Then she might have lost her job. Kapish?
I am a PGA Member and I have played competitive golf for over 30 years and I have never seen a player proceed in this manner. For me Patrick is not entirely at fault and here’s why. It appears in the replay I saw he did look over to his fellow playing competitor and suggested he may have a plugged ball. His fellow competitor, assuming this competitor is keeping his card should have immediately gone over to investigate to protect the field. Patrick should have waited until his fellow competitor or a rules official came to observe. However, if Patrick did get a nod or a weak response from his fellow competitor he was able to proceed since the rules of the game allow for players to manage the rules. I think the Tour needs to use this situation to train players on what to do in this situation. First line of defence is the player himself and then his fellow competitor keeping his card.
You’re missing the point. He moved the ball before a rules official could determine if it was embedded. Unethical at the least and more significant if it was a closer finish. Patrick is a tool.
It appears that he moved the ball based on what the volunteer said and not based on if the ball was actually plugged. When Captain America throws his mighty shield!!!!
The fact is the ball did bounce and did not end up in it's original mark making it super unlikely to be embedded as Patrick says it was. I believe he took advantage of a rule that needs to be changed. And Im sure others have too.
I'll say it again. He is a serial cheater. The PGA tour is spineless not to call this incident out or his obvious pattern of deplorable behaviour. Absolutely horrible for the game and for the image of the tour. I'm from La Jolla and play Torrey on a weekly basis. I've been left of the green on 10 SC countless times. Balls do not embed on their second bounce in 5 inches of kukuya/rye oversead period. He took one look at that lie and knew it was awful (potentially unplayable but not embedded) and picked it up before anyone could take a look at it and new he would get a drop closer to the cart path in less than an inch of rough. He should have left the ball as it lay until a third party could inspect the lie. The tour should give him a lengthy suspension otherwise they are just emboldening him to continue this disgusting pattern of behaviour. I can barely watch this tournament now. Makes me want to turn the television off every time he's on camera. Bobby Jones is rolling over in his grave.
If you watch the video closely. Pay attention to his right shoulder when he first hovers Over the ball. You can see how his right shoulder pops and retracts as if he’s putting pressure into the ground the relasesing
Yep. And he's fully aware of where the camera is. Positioned himself to block the view, or at least tried. Patrick Reed is a chubby little cheating machine. He's lost all credibility and I think we can safely assume his career is over. No longer has the talent to play a straight game. Entirely despised by fans and colleagues alike.
"I didn't see it bounce" turns into "NO, IT DID NOT" in Patrick Reed's world. True test is - would you trust this guy to call a penalty on himself if no-one else saw a ball he was addressing in the rough move? No way would he ever do that. He's a cheat.
What are you talking about. Reed-" did it bounce" Volunteer- "NO, I did not see it bounce" You did hear her say "NO" didn't you? The fact that you purposely left out the first word from the volunteer "NO" says everything anyone needs to know about your credibility, it's odd how those that have no credibility accuse others of the same.
Point ONE....he wasn't even required to ask for an official....(just ask WalkoffthecourseRory).....Point TWO....Patrick, his playing opponents, the volunteer, nor the rules official saw it bounce....(your assuming shows your ignorance as to why the PGA even has Rules Officials).
Great video this one. My comments are this. Patrick Reed has history here. Video clearly shows the ball bounced. To combat any ambiguity then every observer that heads off with a group, must now also be a rules official. So every group has a rules official following. The official has a radio so they can refer to video replay and then eliminates any questions about doing the right thing. There is nothing to say that while Patrick was foraging around there, he didn’t push the ball down a little with his finger. Remember, he has history here. And he has so much raw talent in this game.
Your absolutely correct , this is the point most are missing Patrick didn't see it land ( if he saw it he may not want to admit the bounce and therefore not likely to gain the free drop , ) he did however miss quote the volunteer as you said , I think we know what that implies !
He could've avoided all of it if he had followed the words the volunteer actually said. The volunteer says they didn't see it, not that it didn't happen. In that case before doing anything consult the rules official and go from there. The fact he acted before getting a ruling, changed what the volunteer said, and has a history of making questionable decisions shows the issues. He will never have the benefit of the doubt because he's ruined it for himself. I have a friend who is the same way. He doesn't cheat often but he's been caught and it's always little stuff that probably doesn't matter. But because he's done it he can't be trusted. And what's so annoying is like Patrick he is so good at golf there's not even a point to do it.
Yes you are correct. The last time he did exact same thing. He begins by trying to get the validation he needs so as to proceed the way he wants instead of actually trying to determine what his action should be. He wants to improve his lie so uses voice and questioning to bring his result about . He starts out trying to control the narrative and result he wants not the actual truth.
1:31 of the video, he picks the ball up, then pushes it DOWN (you can see from the way his body moves). Then he stares at the ground (probably wondering if anyone saw this), puts the CLEAN ball to the side.
Why did he not call over another player before lifting ball walking around then asking for ref. The same day Rory had imbeddded ball he called people over to see did not lift but Rory dose not cheat that's the differences
Interesting. He did things “textbook”, and he deferred to the rules official to make the final judgment. And, everyone there said it did not bounce. So, at the end of the day, he is above reproach in this case. However, in seeing the replay, it DID bounce, and not high, and so it is very hard to believe that it would be embedded after the bounce.
No one said it didn't bounce! I didn't hear a single person say it didn't bounce. There is a HUGE difference between someone saying "I didn't see it bounce" to someone saying "it didn't bounce". Patrick had no right to conveniently conclude that the volunteer said "it didn't bounce" because she didn't say that. Words have meanings and matter for a reason. Logic 101. Had he not jumped to that conclusion, his next step would have been to engage a rules official to try and determine whether the ball had or had not bounced because up to that point, no one (not even the volunteer) had proposed that it had not bounced.
you can see him pushing the ball in to make a lip where the ball landed, he manipulated the ground for his own good just like when he was digging for treasure in the sand
I believe he did. No one was around. He probably pushed the ball down in to make it look like it was embedded. It looked like it bounced. Lol. On a bounce, no way it was embedded. He just didn't want to hit it out of the rough grass.
If they are going to the Cameras and giving penalties after the fact (which I believe is BS) the ball clearly bounced and in NO WAY! could have imbedded in its own mark. Hence he should be penalized.
In golf if a person did cheat for one time, there’s high chance he or she would do it again. But if you didn’t at the first time, you would not do for the rest of your life.
Anyone who says Rory's shot on 18 didn't bounce, clearly didn't watch the beginning of the telecast on CBS today. Funny how because he has a "good" reputation it's no big deal 🤔 And I'm a big fan of Rory, but c'mon man!
Yes... when you have a reputation for doing sketchy shit and cheating it means something... people don't just forget about what type of person you are... it's relevant...
Ok this is simple. Have an actual tour official watching live on cameras that can radio other officials on course in real time if they are able to see something that others missed. It would help them find wayward shots as well.
He also said that he “ asked the other players if it bounced” video shows he didn’t. He just informs them that she said it didn’t bounce and tells them he is moving it. He didn’t mark it and then made a hole.
@@fenrarebreedsav2594 no no no, completely different, his ball was plugged no bounce. There was no pitch mark obviously because his ball bounced as you saw. Patrick created a pitch mark by now waiting and picking up the ball before rules official got there.
Did she see the ball dropped? If she did see it drop, then she would probably see it bounced once. If she did not see it drop, then how could she conclude she did not see it bounce? So the right question is did you see the ball drop.... then proceed with, if you see it drop, then did you see it bounce. If the answer to the first question is negative, then you cannot ask her if she see the ball bounced. Logic.
@@seymourbutts563 It's two different matter to see the ball drop against seeing it bounce. You should first ask if you see the ball drop.... then proceed by asking if you see it bounce. I do hve doubt tht she saw the ball drop, thus i hv doubt when she claimed she didn't see it bounce.
I was going to say the same thing. She never said "It didn't bounce" she clearly said she didn't SEE it bounce. I fault the PGA for constantly allowing these shenanigans.
@@sudoroot8900 Reed clearly tells the official that "they said it didn't bounce". That was untrue and his statement was surely going to influence the decision. Of course, if he had said "well we couldn't really see but nobody saw it bounce...er or not bounce, so I picked the ball up, shoved my fingers into the ground, tossed the ball to one side, then shoved my fingers in again twice to show you exactly where the ball was" then it may have been a different outcome.
@@orchestralmockups I think he cheats but it's clear he is talented enough that he doesn't have to do it. That's a character flaw and the PGA doesn't do anything about it. A couple of fines and a suspension and I bet he will change his behavior.
If you are unsure of what happened don't touch it until rules official arrives! He also put the ball down in the rough which would have knocked some mud off the ball ,while pretending he was trying to avoid knocking mud off the ball.......
She said ummm no I didn't see it bounce. This doesn't mean that it didn't bounce, she just didn't see it. He's not only a cheat, he is also a Manipulator. He asks her definitively, Did it bounce??? He's already made up his mind that the ball didn't bounce & will use her words against her to justify the lie. All of a sudden this guy is the most hated player in Golf.
@@dr.jeffpanozzo1180 Or proof that cheaters cheat. When someone lifts their ball out of trouble, they've changed the lie, it certainly isn't the same as it was.
So (using Reed’s own words now) “its impossible for the ball to be embedded if the ball bounces”, (which it in fact did), then it doesn’t matter if anyone saw the ball bounce, it would have been impossible for the ball to have been embedded wether someone “saw” it bounce or not. According to Reed it was impossible to be embedded.
@@anthonyeisfeldt9288 Yes...unless the ball literally broke the surface, bounced straight up and back into that mark (which it may have)...Reeds bounced forward no where near first impact
I played with a guy in high school that claimed he shot 68-73 every single round so we got a stroke counter on him one day and watched every move he made and he shot 81 but turned in 72..but our coach still made him our #1....well we got in the regional tourney and had scoring officials with every group, I won as an individual with 77 and went to state, our #1 shot 89 that day and everybody finally figured out he was a Patrick reed player, this was in 2003
I’m not necessarily a Reed fan; however, the PGA Official Rules folks declared that Reed did NOT break the rules and there is no infraction. Who cares about mine nor any others’ opinion!? All I know is, Patrick Reed is one mentally tough dude. And oh yes, he is pretty darn good, too! Let it go and stop demonizing this man! The “authorities” clearly said there was nor breaking of the rules. You want clarity; there it is! By an authoritative voice! Great win, Patrick!
If you can't reconcile with your parents (despite their misgivings, if any), you don't have the empathy to appreciate what a parent went through to bring you up from a helpless baby to adulthood. Cheating at golf is nothing compared to that.......
@Tony I'm not judging. Let he who doesn't sin cast the first stone. I'm a sinner myself. I just express my views as to why someone cannot forgive their own birth parents.
ck lee parents are not Gods, they are humans, how do you know it’s not justified? I don’t know a lot about Reeds specific case but people have a stigma around estrangement that is not justified in my opinion. Estrangement is another version of divorce from my point of view. A more extreme version than marital or friendship “divorce.” But still, people assuming there is no reason for parent-child estrangement are wrong. They have not experienced abuse from there parents or children that would warrant a divorce, which is good. But please stop with the holier than thou attitude assuming you know what the best decisions are for people in toxic family relationships. All that being said, it’s possible Reed’s wasn’t justified but assuming because someone birthed you means you have to stay connected with them is idiotic. It’s also disrespectful to all the good parents out there. It doesn’t take that much to be a biological mother or father. To be a good parent is one of the most virtuous achievements one can pursue.
@@setbyyah5637 ya. Please tell that to your parents your viewpoint and that you will act like Reed and abandon them , citing your holier than righteousness.... Which parent won't regret with a son like you. Abuse me or not, I will love my parents unconditionally cause without them, I won't exist. Plain and simple
ck lee you’d make a great slave then, even if your parent loves you conditionally and abuses you, “oh they created me that means I have to tolerate a relationship that is toxic and painful for the rest of my life.” Sounds like Stockholm Syndrome to me Side note how do you know I am a guy? I mean I am but that was a leap, maybe so you could ascribe the label of a “horrible son?” And you can frame it as “abandoning” them but you can also look at it as “escaping” an abusive relationship. You know that Domestic Violence exists right? However I anticipate more ad hominem attacking my character instead of my arguments. I criticized your arguments and what I perceived to be an unattractive attitude. You know nothing about me or my life so you can piss off with your character attacks
It did happen to Rory. It bounced then did embed after the bounce but this guy asked on the way to the ball because he knew he wanted a new lie. If you watch him they only show him from behind but you can see him putting pressure on the ground making a dent in the ground intentionally.
Rory’s bounced. Was his man made too? You have to be consistent either way. I get Reed’s past makes it tough. Either they were both wrong or not. Pick. 🤷🏼♂️
@@raymondarmatino5030 Rory said after watching the video, that he has no doubt that his ball bounced up and went back into its original pitch mark, which is believable based on the video, and that it is Rory.
@@JB-iq2pi I believe Rorys ball was imbedded and he has the right to pick it up and check. He called the official to keep things in check which is a great idea so there's no doubt. Rory doesn't need to cheat. I'm with you however the ball got imbedded.
Bro why would he face the camera to check in the first place? i think he pushed it down but this isnt a reason to accuse him of having a dishonest character
@@shronk9463 sunshine is the best disinfectant. Transparency on your actions show your open character. If you try to hide your actions from the camera, I'd say you have something to hide.
He was facing the green, it’s instinct to stay behind the ball and the green when near your ball. I’m not saying he’s isn’t a cheater, but I don’t think he intentionally faced away from the camera.
The officials ruled that everything he did was within the rules. “ I don’t like the way he was acting around the ball” ... what the hell does that mean? Did he follow the rules... YES! Move the hell on already and stop pushing the obvious Cheater narrative!!! Shame on you Golf Chanel
Really? I play in a freakin' Mens' Club, a MENS' CLUB!! There are thousands of them in our country, and I bet almost all of them at our hacking level dare not touch that ball without a competitor watching over us. I've never lifted a ball on my own without a peer's consultation with the exception of getting it out of the water hazard and then dropping it. If Reed is the standard, I can intentionally embed every single crucial buried ball in the rough near the end of a tournament i'm leading. Get real. This is NOT real golf.
@@oldmcdonald9582 OM, it's a bad rule, really. You should not touch that ball until a playing partner is there. BTW, embedded ball has to be it's own pitch mark etc...that rarely happens. The PGA should revisit this rule's wording.
A bounced ball on first impact, rapidly decelerates and accelerates in the opposite direction. If it hits a hard surface, say the pathway, it's initial velocity would cause the ball to deform more and would accelerate the ball at a greater velocity than when it hits the ground that is covered in deep grass. So, the harder the ground, the higher the bounce. As the bounce in this case was minimal, the second bounce's velocity was greatly diminished, as seen in the video, and would not have the velocity to pass through the thick grass and leave an indentation in the ground. If the ground was soft enough to embed a ball, it would have embedded on the original flight, due to it's velocity. Due to cheaters, like Patrick Reed, the rule should be changed so that a player cannot be the one to make the judgement.The player should not be allowed to touch the ball, and the official should be called and they should determine if the ball is embedded. We don't allow criminals to determine if their guilty, so why allow a player to prejudge a decision of an official.
The only thing that really makes me question his intent (aside from his recorded history) is him characterizing his conversation with the volunteer as her saying "she said it didn't bounce". No Patrick, she didn't say that! She said she didn't see it bounce. I didn't see it bounce either, but that was because I wasn't watching the telecast... and it doesn't give Patrick the right to conclude that I said "it didn't bounce".
The ball bounced, therefore it either landed in an already existing plug which is physically impossible in thick rough. Or a plug was created, created well enough for the official to say “yea i feel a lip there”. So with the odds at hand, is it more likely the impossible happened off the bounce or the already convicted cheater made it happen?
The bigger issue here is that just about every other sport that is played on a professional level has some sort of in-game replay booth/officials. With all of the technicalities involved in golf, and with all of these major tournaments already being televised, why do we still not have live replay officials who can accurately review the tape and make the correct call so that we never have to question why something was or wasn't allowed. For the most part, I think Patrick did the right thing by asking the volunteer standing nearby, and he called for an official, but how easy would it have been for that official to get on his little radio and ask the replay booth to see if the ball bounced? Get your shit together PGA
No problem with that because through his judgement, his ball was embedded in it's own pitch mark and relief was allowed due to that. Since he took the relief, he could clean the ball.
I saw that event live. I knew right away his ball was not plugged, The PGA officials should have penalized him. They need to add an addendum so these guys don't move their ball around without an official making a ruling.
I’m so sick of old man golf and golf media painting Reed to be this horrible person and serial cheater. This is one of the biggest ways they remain relevant and boost ratings, by creating and hyping up controversy. Yeah sure the optics didn’t look great, but he literally handled it as anyone would when everyone around him agreed it didn’t bounce.
In his defense, when he asked the volunteer "did it bounce" she didn't just reply "I didn't see it bounce", she replied "no, I didn't see it bounce". I would generally take that as affirmation. In this case she was wrong. If he didn't have such a shady past with this stuff we'd all give them the benefit of the doubt. But hey... how nice would it be to have hundreds of volunteer spotters finding your ball for you when you play? How many balls have we amateurs lost when you could swear the ball had to be right there, sometimes on or near the fairway, sometimes near the green.
@@rolandkennedy80 ball spotter said "I didn't see it bounce" That is a completely different statement from "It didn't bounce" It's a moot point anyway. The chances that his ball was embedded were approximately 0.00%
@@stevenhowlett2950 Sure, he probably paid her a million dollars to "play along". I think you're right. I'm not a fan of Reed but in this case I don't he did anything egregious. He couldn't see it land from the bunker, his playing partners didn't see it and the 'blind' volunteer who marked the ball "didn't see it bounce". I was hoping Hovland would beat him but Reed played great golf down the stretch, habitual cheater or not.
At the minimum these situations should require official intervention before moving the ball. It may have been technically by the book but it just does not pass the eye test when only the player can tell what's really happening. Reed should make a point to avoid these situations but he relishes them. I think he likes the attention
Damon “I’m not comfortable with Patrick around the ball” Rory did the same thing. Patrick should get in all your “ announcer” faces and see how comfortable you are.
Anybody that’s played golf more than a couple years knows the ball will not plug after a bounce like it did. He even says that it literally impossible for it to plug. I call BS!
what's wrong with the tournament director? first time in front of the camera? nervous or uncomfortable with the lie he's telling? he said he look at the video. must have seen that the ball bounced
Honestly, he never has to ask an official for a ruling. He could have easily said it was embedded and took a drop without the official. Officials are there for consultation, not rules enforcement.
he can't win on this part of it. He asks the rules official to make sure he doesn't get roasted, and people roast him for asking. If he didn't ask people would go off on him for wasting time that he could have just called the official instead. So lose lose at this point
but how did both reid and the official say yes it feels like it broke the ground. when clearly it didnt. couldnt be anything to do with the fact it certainly looked like reid put pressure on the ball when first checking.
The initial contact with the ground could have made an indentation. But a bounce like that could not have possibly embedded. No way. He saw a shitty lie and he blatantly cheated. He did it in NCAA and now on tour. It is disgraceful
@@stevewest114 it doesn't take a genius Steve to ascertain that a ball cannot embed on a second bounce in 5+ inches of rough. Stop sticking up for Reed. The dude has a history of cheating. You should read up on his time in NCAA.
He was a little too eager to pick that damn ball up and the people running the tournament have no clue apparently. This is not an isolated incident hes got a problem
If he did everything he was entitled to do--according to the rule official--what is the problem? I hope he doesn't allow this crap to bother him because this is ridiculous.
He is not entitled to push down on the ball to fake it being embedded. There is no way on a slight bounce that the ball would have created an indentation. He has been caught cheating in the past and he was cheating here again.
The problem is his past history, the problem is he said something different to what the volunteer woman said and he clearly had his way with the official sad. Don't make excuses for a cheater.
@@db2939 BS, you can’t tell what he is doing from that angle. What we know FOR SURE, is that a ball that bounces up a foot cannot make an indentation... so where did the indentation come from? Given the prior video evidence that Reed is a cheater, I see no reason not to suspect him here.
Absolutely. Based on his past actions we all know he wasn't probing the ground with his finger, he was using it to create a half round circle with a lip. Simple.
@@markbourdo1219 Yes you're right Mark. I have no idea what he actually did or didn't do there. That's why I prefaced my comment with "based on his past actions". We all know the stories about him since college, we've all seen him cheat on several occasions ... on TV. The ball hit and bounced. It dropped from a distance of about 1 and1/2 feet and in my estimation as someone who plays golf( I'm sure that you do as well), that ball could not have embedded. Rorys ball hit and bounced straight up and (as far as several golfers have said) seemed to come down in the actual ball mark thus leaving him with a true embedded lie. And lastly, Patrick told the officials that "they said it didn't bounce" which of course is not true. The marshall said she didn't "see it" bounce. listen Mark I'm not having a go at you, I happen to like watching Patrick play. He's really good. Which is why so many people have some kind of feelings about him. You know ... stop friggin cheating Pat. Just play the game. Sorry, 1 more, look at the film at 1:26 , he presses down so hard it lifts his body up. End of story?
Watching from the Uk 🇬🇧 Patrick does not give a shit , it’s so funny he gets away with it .......can’t wait for his caddy to write a book - what a story 💰💰💰💰💰📙
If he didn't have anything to hide, he would not have lifted the ball. A rules official cannot make a ruling if the ball is not where it comes to rest.
Can't believe so many of you sticking up for this guys maybe you are used to cheating so it's ok in your eyes. They are making a mockery of the game they know cameras are everywhere but they have been doing it for so long they believe it's ok. The game of golf is going to suffer they better take the cameras away and no close ups. They all cheat if giving a chance please take your blinders off.
@@ll-bc7ou what are you talking about? One can always lift the ball and check (embedded, cracked ball, etc) You must mark and not clean. When done replace where and how it was.
All caps response about Rory, but Rory isn’t a person who has been accused of cheating before. That’s why there is no issue. Plenty of people stand in front of banks every day, no on bats an eyelid. BUT, if a guy who is accused of robbing that said bank a few times is standing out front, people ask questions.
If it was embedded he wouldn’t have called a rules official, he would’ve taken a drop by himself. He knew it was NOT embedded right after he picked the ball up, and he used the rules official as a red herring to push down on the ball to make a hole in the ground so when the rules official examines the spot there is a hole in the ground. It’s common sense... cheating.
Bullshit!! The ball CLEARLY bounced the first time it hit the ground! That was Crystal Clear on the video tape. There was a first bounce that was at least 3 feet high. It DIDN'T bounce on the second hop. That hop was in NO WAY high or hard enough to break ground. He was WRONG and violated the rules of golf PERIOD.
@@db2939 Reed called for the rules official. At that point he lost the right to move the ball or clean the ball, BOTH of which he did. he also lost his right to decide whether it was imbededd.
"They said it didn't bounce" No, they said they didn't see it bounce. Once a cheat always a cheat, he obviously pushed the ball into the ground to create an impression before he lifted it, then pushed his finger back into the hole to make sure before telling the official it had been imbedded. Even OJ's jury would not find Reed innocent on this one.
that is exactly what i was thinking,he pushed his finger into the spot more than once to create the indentation. you made a great comment and your post is right on the money. my son always says what do you mean dad,when i see p reed on tv in a tourney i always say theres the cheater...thanks for a great post my man
"They said it didn't bounce" No, they said they didn't see it bounce.
Correct! Reed is a liar and it shows each time he talks.
OJ's jury would find Reed guilty and OJ "not guilty". USA! USA! USA!
The ball did bounce on the road. Lol
NOBODY saw it bounce-therefore, you go off the assumption that it didnt.. lord, all these "rules experts"..
@@angus4463
The camera saw it bounce.....
Reed created the broken buried ball plane, he planned it right from the moment he asked if it had bounced. Once the lady said that she didn't see it bounce, BAM...he had his plan. What a lot of folks are missing is that Patrick Reed plays golf like a soccer player plays soccer. His DNA is made for this, and he loves it. When a soccer player gets that free penalty and scores on his opponent...all stemming from that fake dive, that's Reed on the golf course getting one over on the field.
So you’re a mind reader, congrats.
@@Scrooks1 Did we mind read him not marking his ball before he picked it up??????
He seems to be really good at inserting himself between the ball and the camera.
He's become a creep, the more I see and hear, the more I dislike this dude.
There are only two ways there was an indention in the ground exactly where his ball was: 1) His ball somehow miraculously landed in a previous ball's indention or there was some sort of indention in the ground that was caused by something else that his ball bounced into 2) He pressed the ball into the ground to create an indention for the rules official to see. Your best guess as to which one of these two things happened is as good as mine.
He pressed it down
He did that because he fingers were on the ball for a long time!
But why is it always him? The same type of guys are always involved or unlucky. It’s never just a coincidence
Once is a coincidence, more than that .. well 🙄
@@jwstorey173 More than that is ... multiple coincidences!
Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me
cheaters are always consistent.
because ppl look for something bavause its him .do you look at Brady the same way?he cheated. more than once
It's really pretty simple: If the ball didn't embed into the ground from the initial strike, going 130 yards in the air, it CANNOT embed into the same ground from an 18" bounce!
Not necessarily. That's an assumption you're making. If the ground is soft enough, it could embed from only a foot or even less. Only a part of the ball needs to be below the ground to be considered embedded. There's no way you can do anything but give him the benefit of the doubt. All players push the rules to the Max. This no exception. Trial by the public seems same as trial by social media.
@@johngrear6506 not with that length of grass it wouldn’t
Pat just walked over and grabbed his ball like he was playing at my home course on a Tuesday afternoon
True, he reminds me of me on the course.
But I stink and need all the cheating to stay under 100.
I’m good and technically cheat all the time but I don’t play on tour
"You mind if I put my finger in there?"
Yeah, go ahead... I've already done it...
😂
I'll bet he made a mark before moving it
@@martinhellstrom9299 I'm betting he pressed down on the ball before picking it up. He had NO business picking up his ball before calling over his playing partners and rules officials. I would have DQ'ed him for that alone.
@@tomace4898 i meant that, made a mark by pressing it
*Reeds in his own defense said if it bounced this would have NOT have happened. Facts are it did with yours? Why yours did on high ground explain this. This is not like Rorys case on the bottom of the gulley? One excuse after another diverting attention!!!*
Whether it's legal or not, it's Patrick being Patrick. He has a knack for getting into these types of situations.
just dont move your ball unless a playing partner agrees or a rules guy shows up
Unfortunately I agree with you, I think he acted appropriately, but Reid will be forever scrutinized
LOL.
@@stephenfgdl thats because he cheats
@@02887727356 yes, I tried to say that without saying it literally lol
He hadn't even arrived at the ball before he was sniffing for 'embedded' ball relief. On approach he could see it was on a down slope out of the rough and knew if he could get a drop away from the down slope he was in much better position. Guy is an experienced cheater and this is without question another rules violation.
He literally did everything within the rules of the game... I don’t understand the controversy?
Jacob Stahl well said
Im not arguing with the tour official explicitly stating he acted in accordance with the rules and this whole uproar is stupid and you are all just trying to find a reason to go after someone.
100% He did not tell them what to say...
He changed what they said pay attention sad .
I did not see this until now, I totally agree you - insanity
@Paul Goodier Who said he cheated? PGA? Rules officials, playing partners, Farmers Ins tourney? Facts please trying to be open minded
@Paul Goodier I understand but it is opinion, that I respect 100% of course. Thanks for your thoughts.
The volunteer says “oh no, i didnt see it bounce. Reed then changes their words and tells the official that the volunteer stated that the ball did not bounce. She said “didnt see” it bounce, not the same as definitively stating it did not bounce. Just by the fact that reed repeats “they said it didnt bounce” like 4+ times, that tells me he’s bullshitting.
Can the player ask for an instant replay video from rules official?
The Volunteer did say "the ball did not bounce", she said "I did not see it bounce". Patrick said several times the volunteer said "It did not" bounce. He was wrong...he should have waited for the official to come over before starting.
Correct. Reed is a liar and uses the volunteer to prop up his lie.
This guy is a creep.
How long did it take for the official to get there? So every questionable play we should stop and wait for an official for 5 minutes or more? They're not with every group dummy.
Congrats to the two announcers. They addressed this strongly and I can’t imagine that comes easy. Good on them.
No it's sad they don't have any idea what they're talking about! Sad Reed ls on there shit list
@@spi9177 Nice to see someone sticking up for him but I just find that times at the Hero tournament were improving lie and he has had other occurrences as well. Rory has done similar stuff with embedded lie but because of his past I believe he was in keeping with the integrity of the game. Watching Reed you get a much different feeling. Anyone who has seen the replay of moving sand behind the ball at the Hero’s knows it was no accident. I’d perhaps say a mistake from a twenty five handicap with a belly full of beer not noticing but at his skill level he knew.he moved sand and he kept doing it until he had a clear impact.
@@spi9177 Nobody like a damn cheater!
For those who didn't get it, the question that many are asking is, did he thump the ball into the ground while checking it?
Reed himself said during the interview after the round, "if the ball bounces, it's literally impossible for the ball to plug". With that, it is very reasonable to question HOW the ball managed to break ground as he claimed it and verified by the ref.
That he did. He should have not even been near that ball until the official got there. He clearly pushed the whole in the ground. His fat azzz literally pushed it down. Because that spot where his ball landed was thick. And he wanted a better lie.
Ask the question! If by his own admission it’s impossible for a ball that bounced to be embedded, how was there a lip!? He just pressed it down when hovering over it - pretty obvious.
If you watch carefully (hands and shoulders) it looks like he leans in and pushes the ball into the ground to make sure the lip would be there, then calls for the rules official.
horseshit
The ball bounced as well. They gave him that.
Why isn't anyone talking about reed telling his caddie you can clean it now on the original broadcast. Rules say can't clean until on the green.
Unless it’s lift clean and place
@@jwstorey173 Fairways only, not in the rough, for the lift clean and replace rule.
The problem is he didn't just pick up the ball... it really does look like he pushed it down before. In the interview after the round, he said himself it's impossible for a ball that bounced to be embedded!
Rory's ball bounced, and was apparently embedded. So there's that.
That's bull
exactly!!
Change the rule...don’t allow a player to touch the ball. Make him wait for a rule official to arrive and make a ruling before the player can mark and lift it.
Indeed...until then, the sanctimonious can STFU.
@2000bcanning
That's not a bad idea~but if you did that EVERY time, it'd take forever to finish a game. These guys in the PGA at this level, are under a strict timeline and if they slow play too much, they can be penalized. The PGA actually shortened the time you have to find a ball from 5 minutes to 3 minutes.
In this case I just assume Reed's a cheater. I cannot stand him, even though he is a really good player. Because he cheats. The worst kind of player.
In a game where honesty and above board playing are part of the fibre of the game, he stands out. He's like tRUMP. The Orange Nightmare takes a shot before everyone, no matter if it's his turn or not~runs to his cart and takes off, before others can see where his ball went and when they get to the fairway or green? His ball has magically landed in the perfect spot on the fairway/green~or~he'll kick someone else's ball off the green or throw it into the rough. Now tRUMP doesn't care who knows he cheats. His malignant narcissism won't allow him to care~he MUST WIN at all costs.
I'm putting Reed ahead of the Orange Nightmare, because the Orange Nightmare literally cannot help himself.
Reed can. So that makes him worse than the ON as far as cheating goes. Plus Reed will never, ever outlive the fact that no matter how he tries he'll always be known as a cheater. Forever.
What a legacy! SMH
And all it took, was to be honest.
@@rhijulbec1 what?, Huh. Calm down captain, take a few deep breaths. Holy cow, was Trump playing in this tournament too?
I thought he handled it just fine...the rules official made the call...not Reed.
Reed pulled the ball out and seemingly put it back in or at least poked his fingers in there a couple times. Long grass is cushy-er than short cut fairway grass and certainly would prevent an embedded ball pitch mark on any ball that bounced. The ball's initial velocity was absorbed at the spot of the bounce, then went to approx. knee height and that velocity then created its own pitch mark? No way.
@@tedzink4574 even the way he describes it. You can tell he made the mark with his fingers. By the way, did you see the ball bounce?
Wow!!!! The rules official said he did what he was suppose too! Move on people!! Roy Mcllroy did the same thing!!!
I don't even watch golf, and I know this dude cheats regularly. Apparently his college team wanted him kicked off for the same stuff.
Pathetic golf fans never would judge their favorite boy McIlroy.
The volunteer said it did not. Really? She said she did not see it bounce. Totally different.
what other sense was she supposed to have used other than her eyes. Should he have asked did you hear it bounce.
@@mikepxg6406 she said she did not see it bounce. She obviously wasn't looking hard enough as it did bounce on video. She shld have said she didn't see it land. Then she might have lost her job. Kapish?
KH T She's a volunteer! Lose her job? He shouldn't be asking a volunteer that question anyway.
Listen again, she said no, I didn’t see it bounce. She first said no when he asked her if it bounced.
@@Noname-ni1dy she can't have seen it as the ball did bounce in the video. So she wasn't looking where the ball landed.
Show us a rule where the commentators override the rule officials!
@Chuck R .. 🎯
I am a PGA Member and I have played competitive golf for over 30 years and I have never seen a player proceed in this manner. For me Patrick is not entirely at fault and here’s why. It appears in the replay I saw he did look over to his fellow playing competitor and suggested he may have a plugged ball. His fellow competitor, assuming this competitor is keeping his card should have immediately gone over to investigate to protect the field. Patrick should have waited until his fellow competitor or a rules official came to observe. However, if Patrick did get a nod or a weak response from his fellow competitor he was able to proceed since the rules of the game allow for players to manage the rules. I think the Tour needs to use this situation to train players on what to do in this situation. First line of defence is the player himself and then his fellow competitor keeping his card.
Look at starting at 7:00. When he is replacing the ball his body leans forward as happens when you are pushing down while squatted.
No body saw the ball bounce & the rules official said Reed's handling was fine. Who cares what Bacon & Hack say? Great win for Patrick.
Keep your eye on the ball.....
You’re missing the point. He moved the ball before a rules official could determine if it was embedded. Unethical at the least and more significant if it was a closer finish. Patrick is a tool.
@@sidwho007 yeah. A Cheating Bast**d
Exactly!
It appears that he moved the ball based on what the volunteer said and not based on if the ball was actually plugged. When Captain America throws his mighty shield!!!!
The fact is the ball did bounce and did not end up in it's original mark making it super unlikely to be embedded as Patrick says it was. I believe he took advantage of a rule that needs to be changed. And Im sure others have too.
I'll say it again. He is a serial cheater. The PGA tour is spineless not to call this incident out or his obvious pattern of deplorable behaviour. Absolutely horrible for the game and for the image of the tour. I'm from La Jolla and play Torrey on a weekly basis. I've been left of the green on 10 SC countless times. Balls do not embed on their second bounce in 5 inches of kukuya/rye oversead period. He took one look at that lie and knew it was awful (potentially unplayable but not embedded) and picked it up before anyone could take a look at it and new he would get a drop closer to the cart path in less than an inch of rough. He should have left the ball as it lay until a third party could inspect the lie. The tour should give him a lengthy suspension otherwise they are just emboldening him to continue this disgusting pattern of behaviour. I can barely watch this tournament now. Makes me want to turn the television off every time he's on camera. Bobby Jones is rolling over in his grave.
If you watch the video closely. Pay attention to his right shoulder when he first hovers Over the ball. You can see how his right shoulder pops and retracts as if he’s putting pressure into the ground the relasesing
Yep. And he's fully aware of where the camera is. Positioned himself to block the view, or at least tried. Patrick Reed is a chubby little cheating machine. He's lost all credibility and I think we can safely assume his career is over. No longer has the talent to play a straight game. Entirely despised by fans and colleagues alike.
@@richardcarnahan5184 the ball also bounced before it landed.
@@richardcarnahan5184 i agree, and its sad because he has so much talent and is a great ball striker.
"I didn't see it bounce" turns into "NO, IT DID NOT" in Patrick Reed's world. True test is - would you trust this guy to call a penalty on himself if no-one else saw a ball he was addressing in the rough move? No way would he ever do that. He's a cheat.
What are you talking about.
Reed-" did it bounce"
Volunteer- "NO, I did not see it bounce"
You did hear her say "NO" didn't you?
The fact that you purposely left out the first word from the volunteer "NO" says everything anyone needs to know about your credibility, it's odd how those that have no credibility accuse others of the same.
Point ONE....he wasn't even required to ask for an official....(just ask WalkoffthecourseRory).....Point TWO....Patrick, his playing opponents, the volunteer, nor the rules official saw it bounce....(your assuming shows your ignorance as to why the PGA even has Rules Officials).
Great video this one. My comments are this. Patrick Reed has history here. Video clearly shows the ball bounced. To combat any ambiguity then every observer that heads off with a group, must now also be a rules official. So every group has a rules official following. The official has a radio so they can refer to video replay and then eliminates any questions about doing the right thing. There is nothing to say that while Patrick was foraging around there, he didn’t push the ball down a little with his finger. Remember, he has history here. And he has so much raw talent in this game.
The volunteer didn’t say it didn’t bounce, she said she did not see it bounce.
The ball did bounce, watch the video
@@stevedeadder8426 Mate, I know it bounced. I agree with you. My point is that the volunteer never said “it didn’t bounce”.
@@brissiegeoff I know,rite
Your absolutely correct , this is the point most are missing Patrick didn't see it land ( if he saw it he may not want to admit the bounce and therefore not likely to gain the free drop , ) he did however miss quote the volunteer as you said , I think we know what that implies !
@@self-preservationsociety7057 Yuuuuup!
Nobody saw it bounce. What he did was "textbook". Case closed. Leave him alone.
Clearly bounced! Two feet
@@jasonmotanky73 yes, it did. But they didn't know it until later.
He cheats from the moment he gets up every day. You cannot trust him for a second.
He could've avoided all of it if he had followed the words the volunteer actually said. The volunteer says they didn't see it, not that it didn't happen. In that case before doing anything consult the rules official and go from there. The fact he acted before getting a ruling, changed what the volunteer said, and has a history of making questionable decisions shows the issues. He will never have the benefit of the doubt because he's ruined it for himself. I have a friend who is the same way. He doesn't cheat often but he's been caught and it's always little stuff that probably doesn't matter. But because he's done it he can't be trusted. And what's so annoying is like Patrick he is so good at golf there's not even a point to do it.
Yes you are correct. The last time he did exact same thing. He begins by trying to get the validation he needs so as to proceed the way he wants instead of actually trying to determine what his action should be. He wants to improve his lie so uses voice and questioning to bring his result about . He starts out trying to control the narrative and result he wants not the actual truth.
I don't care what the rule states but the ball should not have been touched without a rules official there
1:31 of the video, he picks the ball up, then pushes it DOWN (you can see from the way his body moves). Then he stares at the ground (probably wondering if anyone saw this), puts the CLEAN ball to the side.
Why did he not call over another player before lifting ball walking around then asking for ref. The same day Rory had imbeddded ball he called people over to see did not lift but Rory dose not cheat that's the differences
Interesting. He did things “textbook”, and he deferred to the rules official to make the final judgment. And, everyone there said it did not bounce. So, at the end of the day, he is above reproach in this case. However, in seeing the replay, it DID bounce, and not high, and so it is very hard to believe that it would be embedded after the bounce.
No one said it didn't bounce! I didn't hear a single person say it didn't bounce. There is a HUGE difference between someone saying "I didn't see it bounce" to someone saying "it didn't bounce". Patrick had no right to conveniently conclude that the volunteer said "it didn't bounce" because she didn't say that. Words have meanings and matter for a reason. Logic 101.
Had he not jumped to that conclusion, his next step would have been to engage a rules official to try and determine whether the ball had or had not bounced because up to that point, no one (not even the volunteer) had proposed that it had not bounced.
i think players who broke rules in the past should get different treatment
you can see him pushing the ball in to make a lip where the ball landed, he manipulated the ground for his own good just like when he was digging for treasure in the sand
i watched it a bunch . i didnt see that. he picked it up with both fingers. did not puh down on it. i guess you see what you want to see
Always has been a cheater!
Failing to shake Tiger's hand when gifting the green jacket was all the window one needed to see what kind of individual we're dealing with
I contend that Reed used his finger, when he checked for an indentation, to make a the lip that the official found.
I believe he did. No one was around. He probably pushed the ball down in to make it look like it was embedded. It looked like it bounced. Lol. On a bounce, no way it was embedded. He just didn't want to hit it out of the rough grass.
@@williammills8953 do you have proof? thats just your opinion based on his past . you cant even use that argument in court
@@oldmcdonald9582 you don't like my opinion. Oh well. Opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one. You don't like mine. Oh well.
If they are going to the Cameras and giving penalties after the fact (which I believe is BS) the ball clearly bounced and in NO WAY! could have imbedded in its own mark. Hence he should be penalized.
T V replays work in baseball, basketball and football............is golf not a sport???? Evidently not for Reed or golf!
Shane Bacon and Damon Hack, WHAT THE HELL IS THE MATTER WITH YOU GUYS? The senior tourmnament director said it was ok. END OF DISCUSSION.
Put that in your pipe & smoke it! Lol
In golf if a person did cheat for one time, there’s high chance he or she would do it again. But if you didn’t at the first time, you would not do for the rest of your life.
He has been cheating or accused of cheating since he was in college
Anyone who says Rory's shot on 18 didn't bounce, clearly didn't watch the beginning of the telecast on CBS today. Funny how because he has a "good" reputation it's no big deal 🤔 And I'm a big fan of Rory, but c'mon man!
Yes... when you have a reputation for doing sketchy shit and cheating it means something... people don't just forget about what type of person you are... it's relevant...
@@dustyowl99 yup rory will go down in the history books as a cheater. Reed will go down as the 2021 Farmers Champ.
Play it where it lies. That puts an end to it.
Rorys shot bounced and landed in same mark. Reed’s did not.
@@garrettnobles8956 Exactly, they replayed the video of Rorys and it went straight up and back down in its pitch mark
Ok this is simple. Have an actual tour official watching live on cameras that can radio other officials on course in real time if they are able to see something that others missed. It would help them find wayward shots as well.
I don’t get what’s wrong with the volunteers being considered to do it as well
He also said that he “ asked the other players if it bounced” video shows he didn’t. He just informs them that she said it didn’t bounce and tells them he is moving it. He didn’t mark it and then made a hole.
pathological liar
Rory had the same thing happen yesterday and no one said anything. Let it go!!!!
Let it go? You think cheating is acceptable?
No, but if we aren’t going to have the same conversation about Rory doing it, what’s the point?
@@fenrarebreedsav2594 no no no, completely different, his ball was plugged no bounce. There was no pitch mark obviously because his ball bounced as you saw. Patrick created a pitch mark by now waiting and picking up the ball before rules official got there.
They both bounced; I’m not justifying either, I’m just saying if we aren’t going to hold everyone to the rules, let’s not have the conversation.
@@fenrarebreedsav2594 Different situation mate, if Rory cheats he should be disqualified as well but he didn't and I highly doubt he ever would.
“I didn’t see it bounce”. That’s what she said!
This right here! She did not say for sure she saw what the ball did
Exactly. But even these officials covering for him. Dunno what's worse, PGA or NBA officials lol
Did she see the ball dropped?
If she did see it drop, then she would probably see it bounced once.
If she did not see it drop, then how could she conclude she did not see it bounce?
So the right question is did you see the ball drop.... then proceed with, if you see it drop, then did you see it bounce.
If the answer to the first question is negative, then you cannot ask her if she see the ball bounced. Logic.
@@shahrul1962 she literally said "I didn't see it bounce". Why are you making it more complicated than that? Simple.
@@seymourbutts563 It's two different matter to see the ball drop against seeing it bounce.
You should first ask if you see the ball drop.... then proceed by asking if you see it bounce.
I do hve doubt tht she saw the ball drop, thus i hv doubt when she claimed she didn't see it bounce.
"I didn't see it bounce" and "it didn't bounce" are being conflated. Shockingly the rules officials are running cover for him. jarring stuff
I was going to say the same thing. She never said "It didn't bounce" she clearly said she didn't SEE it bounce. I fault the PGA for constantly allowing these shenanigans.
@@sudoroot8900 absoulutely!
@@sudoroot8900 Reed clearly tells the official that "they said it didn't bounce". That was untrue and his statement was surely going to influence the decision. Of course, if he had said "well we couldn't really see but nobody saw it bounce...er or not bounce, so I picked the ball up, shoved my fingers into the ground, tossed the ball to one side, then shoved my fingers in again twice to show you exactly where the ball was" then it may have been a different outcome.
@@orchestralmockups I think he cheats but it's clear he is talented enough that he doesn't have to do it. That's a character flaw and the PGA doesn't do anything about it. A couple of fines and a suspension and I bet he will change his behavior.
Lol this comment... I bet y'all believe 2+2=5
She didn't SEE it bounce vs it DIDN'T bounce. He seemed to take the latter choice.
If you are unsure of what happened don't touch it until rules official arrives! He also put the ball down in the rough which would have knocked some mud off the ball ,while pretending he was trying to avoid knocking mud off the ball.......
He should have clumsily spilled his water bottle on top of it.
She said ummm no I didn't see it bounce. This doesn't mean that it didn't bounce, she just didn't see it. He's not only a cheat, he is also a Manipulator. He asks her definitively, Did it bounce??? He's already made up his mind that the ball didn't bounce & will use her words against her to justify the lie. All of a sudden this guy is the most hated player in Golf.
I wouldn't say "all of a sudden", Reed has a history of cheating.
Time for a medication change TT
👆proof that haters hate.
@@dr.jeffpanozzo1180 Or proof that cheaters cheat. When someone lifts their ball out of trouble, they've changed the lie, it certainly isn't the same as it was.
@@dr.jeffpanozzo1180 mmm.. where’s your clinic?
So (using Reed’s own words now) “its impossible for the ball to be embedded if the ball bounces”, (which it in fact did), then it doesn’t matter if anyone saw the ball bounce, it would have been impossible for the ball to have been embedded wether someone “saw” it bounce or not. According to Reed it was impossible to be embedded.
So now using this same logic that it’s impossible if ball bounces....then clearly Rory’s ball was most definitely not embedded.
@@anthonyeisfeldt9288 Yes...unless the ball literally broke the surface, bounced straight up and back into that mark (which it may have)...Reeds bounced forward no where near first impact
If the PGA tour loses integrity, the world as we know it is over. Mulch is sad.
I played with a guy in high school that claimed he shot 68-73 every single round so we got a stroke counter on him one day and watched every move he made and he shot 81 but turned in 72..but our coach still made him our #1....well we got in the regional tourney and had scoring officials with every group, I won as an individual with 77 and went to state, our #1 shot 89 that day and everybody finally figured out he was a Patrick reed player, this was in 2003
Wow pretty sad
I’m not necessarily a Reed fan; however, the PGA Official Rules folks declared that Reed did NOT break the rules and there is no infraction. Who cares about mine nor any others’ opinion!? All I know is, Patrick Reed is one mentally tough dude. And oh yes, he is pretty darn good, too! Let it go and stop demonizing this man! The “authorities” clearly said there was nor breaking of the rules. You want clarity; there it is! By an authoritative voice! Great win, Patrick!
If you can't reconcile with your parents (despite their misgivings, if any), you don't have the empathy to appreciate what a parent went through to bring you up from a helpless baby to adulthood. Cheating at golf is nothing compared to that.......
He’s a spoiled brat. I’m from Augusta and it’s well known this dude is a punk born with a silver spoon in his mouth.
@Tony I'm not judging. Let he who doesn't sin cast the first stone. I'm a sinner myself. I just express my views as to why someone cannot forgive their own birth parents.
ck lee parents are not Gods, they are humans, how do you know it’s not justified?
I don’t know a lot about Reeds specific case but people have a stigma around estrangement that is not justified in my opinion.
Estrangement is another version of divorce from my point of view. A more extreme version than marital or friendship “divorce.” But still, people assuming there is no reason for parent-child estrangement are wrong. They have not experienced abuse from there parents or children that would warrant a divorce, which is good.
But please stop with the holier than thou attitude assuming you know what the best decisions are for people in toxic family relationships.
All that being said, it’s possible Reed’s wasn’t justified but assuming because someone birthed you means you have to stay connected with them is idiotic. It’s also disrespectful to all the good parents out there. It doesn’t take that much to be a biological mother or father. To be a good parent is one of the most virtuous achievements one can pursue.
@@setbyyah5637 ya. Please tell that to your parents your viewpoint and that you will act like Reed and abandon them , citing your holier than righteousness.... Which parent won't regret with a son like you. Abuse me or not, I will love my parents unconditionally cause without them, I won't exist. Plain and simple
ck lee you’d make a great slave then, even if your parent loves you conditionally and abuses you, “oh they created me that means I have to tolerate a relationship that is toxic and painful for the rest of my life.” Sounds like Stockholm Syndrome to me
Side note how do you know I am a guy? I mean I am but that was a leap, maybe so you could ascribe the label of a “horrible son?”
And you can frame it as “abandoning” them but you can also look at it as “escaping” an abusive relationship. You know that Domestic Violence exists right?
However I anticipate more ad hominem attacking my character instead of my arguments. I criticized your arguments and what I perceived to be an unattractive attitude.
You know nothing about me or my life so you can piss off with your character attacks
Reffs should be a little more assertive, who's making the call here?
How can you produce a lip if it bounced, unless this is man made!
It did happen to Rory. It bounced then did embed after the bounce but this guy asked on the way to the ball because he knew he wanted a new lie. If you watch him they only show him from behind but you can see him putting pressure on the ground making a dent in the ground intentionally.
I don't know ask Rory
Rory’s bounced. Was his man made too? You have to be consistent either way. I get Reed’s past makes it tough. Either they were both wrong or not. Pick. 🤷🏼♂️
@@raymondarmatino5030 Rory said after watching the video, that he has no doubt that his ball bounced up and went back into its original pitch mark, which is believable based on the video, and that it is Rory.
@@JB-iq2pi I believe Rorys ball was imbedded and he has the right to pick it up and check. He called the official to keep things in check which is a great idea so there's no doubt. Rory doesn't need to cheat. I'm with you however the ball got imbedded.
The way he squats with his back facing the camera is enough to convince me that patrick has a dishonest character.
Bro why would he face the camera to check in the first place? i think he pushed it down but this isnt a reason to accuse him of having a dishonest character
@@shronk9463 sunshine is the best disinfectant. Transparency on your actions show your open character. If you try to hide your actions from the camera, I'd say you have something to hide.
He was facing the green, it’s instinct to stay behind the ball and the green when near your ball. I’m not saying he’s isn’t a cheater, but I don’t think he intentionally faced away from the camera.
He removes all evidence then gives his side of story to rules official to decide in his favour.
You know his name, Patrick cheat
Just play it as it lies FFS 😂
The officials ruled that everything he did was within the rules. “ I don’t like the way he was acting around the ball” ... what the hell does that mean? Did he follow the rules... YES! Move the hell on already and stop pushing the obvious Cheater narrative!!! Shame on you Golf Chanel
Really? I play in a freakin' Mens' Club, a MENS' CLUB!! There are thousands of them in our country, and I bet almost all of them at our hacking level dare not touch that ball without a competitor watching over us. I've never lifted a ball on my own without a peer's consultation with the exception of getting it out of the water hazard and then dropping it. If Reed is the standard, I can intentionally embed every single crucial buried ball in the rough near the end of a tournament i'm leading. Get real. This is NOT real golf.
@@wreckim but hes entitled to do that. so shut up
@@oldmcdonald9582 OM, it's a bad rule, really. You should not touch that ball until a playing partner is there. BTW, embedded ball has to be it's own pitch mark etc...that rarely happens. The PGA should revisit this rule's wording.
A bounced ball on first impact, rapidly decelerates and accelerates in the opposite direction. If it hits a hard surface, say the pathway, it's initial velocity would cause the ball to deform more and would accelerate the ball at a greater velocity than when it hits the ground that is covered in deep grass. So, the harder the ground, the higher the bounce. As the bounce in this case was minimal, the second bounce's velocity was greatly diminished, as seen in the video, and would not have the velocity to pass through the thick grass and leave an indentation in the ground. If the ground was soft enough to embed a ball, it would have embedded on the original flight, due to it's velocity. Due to cheaters, like Patrick Reed, the rule should be changed so that a player cannot be the one to make the judgement.The player should not be allowed to touch the ball, and the official should be called and they should determine if the ball is embedded. We don't allow criminals to determine if their guilty, so why allow a player to prejudge a decision of an official.
At least 15 other times this same sort of thing happened that day. This is just a witch hunt.
Exactly!!
Exactly! The media trying to create news where there was none.
Thank you. Glad someone is telling the truth. The course was extremely wet many golfers were having the same problem.
I love the drama. Golf needs it
The only thing that really makes me question his intent (aside from his recorded history) is him characterizing his conversation with the volunteer as her saying "she said it didn't bounce". No Patrick, she didn't say that! She said she didn't see it bounce.
I didn't see it bounce either, but that was because I wasn't watching the telecast... and it doesn't give Patrick the right to conclude that I said "it didn't bounce".
He knew damn well that ball bounced. He also had his caddie clean it knowing full well the rules don't allow it.
The guy followed the protocol. I think you just need something to talk about
The ball bounced, therefore it either landed in an already existing plug which is physically impossible in thick rough. Or a plug was created, created well enough for the official to say “yea i feel a lip there”. So with the odds at hand, is it more likely the impossible happened off the bounce or the already convicted cheater made it happen?
So you saying it isn't possible for the ball to bounce and then be imbedded. Which means Rory cheated also? Both balls bounced .
The bigger issue here is that just about every other sport that is played on a professional level has some sort of in-game replay booth/officials. With all of the technicalities involved in golf, and with all of these major tournaments already being televised, why do we still not have live replay officials who can accurately review the tape and make the correct call so that we never have to question why something was or wasn't allowed. For the most part, I think Patrick did the right thing by asking the volunteer standing nearby, and he called for an official, but how easy would it have been for that official to get on his little radio and ask the replay booth to see if the ball bounced? Get your shit together PGA
What about Rory cleaning the ball?
No problem with that because through his judgement, his ball was embedded in it's own pitch mark and relief was allowed due to that. Since he took the relief, he could clean the ball.
There was no situaton. End of story. He did everything right according to the tournament director. Why make a mountain out of nothing? Wow.
Reed is more seasoned than Judge Smails.
Now Reed just needs to replace his caddie with Danny Noonan
I saw that event live. I knew right away his ball was not plugged, The PGA officials should have penalized him. They need to add an addendum so these guys don't move their ball around without an official making a ruling.
I’m so sick of old man golf and golf media painting Reed to be this horrible person and serial cheater. This is one of the biggest ways they remain relevant and boost ratings, by creating and hyping up controversy. Yeah sure the optics didn’t look great, but he literally handled it as anyone would when everyone around him agreed it didn’t bounce.
In his defense, when he asked the volunteer "did it bounce" she didn't just reply "I didn't see it bounce", she replied "no, I didn't see it bounce". I would generally take that as affirmation. In this case she was wrong. If he didn't have such a shady past with this stuff we'd all give them the benefit of the doubt. But hey... how nice would it be to have hundreds of volunteer spotters finding your ball for you when you play? How many balls have we amateurs lost when you could swear the ball had to be right there, sometimes on or near the fairway, sometimes near the green.
The ball BOUNCED......No drop, PERIOD !!!!
Ball spotter says different
@@rolandkennedy80 ball spotter said "I didn't see it bounce"
That is a completely different statement from "It didn't bounce"
It's a moot point anyway. The chances that his ball was embedded were approximately 0.00%
@@stevenhowlett2950 Sure, he probably paid her a million dollars to "play along". I think you're right.
I'm not a fan of Reed but in this case I don't he did anything egregious. He couldn't see it land from the bunker, his playing partners didn't see it and the 'blind' volunteer who marked the ball "didn't see it bounce".
I was hoping Hovland would beat him but Reed played great golf down the stretch, habitual cheater or not.
@@stevenhowlett2950 it's actually the same statement and it's quite comical how much people are over thinking this.
@@bretwells3610 it really isn't 😂
I hope you took your English teacher to court
At the minimum these situations should require official intervention before moving the ball. It may have been technically by the book but it just does not pass the eye test when only the player can tell what's really happening. Reed should make a point to avoid these situations but he relishes them. I think he likes the attention
Damon “I’m not comfortable with Patrick around the ball” Rory did the same thing. Patrick should get in all your “ announcer” faces and see how comfortable you are.
Roy Sabbatini did the same thing also on the 15th
Anybody that’s played golf more than a couple years knows the ball will not plug after a bounce like it did. He even says that it literally impossible for it to plug. I call BS!
what's wrong with the tournament director? first time in front of the camera? nervous or uncomfortable with the lie he's telling? he said he look at the video. must have seen that the ball bounced
T V can't enter into play anymore........UNFORTUNATELY!!!!!!!
Honestly, he never has to ask an official for a ruling. He could have easily said it was embedded and took a drop without the official. Officials are there for consultation, not rules enforcement.
he can't win on this part of it. He asks the rules official to make sure he doesn't get roasted, and people roast him for asking. If he didn't ask people would go off on him for wasting time that he could have just called the official instead. So lose lose at this point
but how did both reid and the official say yes it feels like it broke the ground. when clearly it didnt. couldnt be anything to do with the fact it certainly looked like reid put pressure on the ball when first checking.
You can see underground, WOW !!!!!!!!
Bang on mate
The initial contact with the ground could have made an indentation. But a bounce like that could not have possibly embedded. No way. He saw a shitty lie and he blatantly cheated. He did it in NCAA and now on tour. It is disgraceful
@@lukecorrea1373 Nice xray vision you got there luke, you should work for the Golf Channel !!
@@stevewest114 it doesn't take a genius Steve to ascertain that a ball cannot embed on a second bounce in 5+ inches of rough. Stop sticking up for Reed. The dude has a history of cheating. You should read up on his time in NCAA.
He was a little too eager to pick that damn ball up and the people running the tournament have no clue apparently. This is not an isolated incident hes got a problem
If he did everything he was entitled to do--according to the rule official--what is the problem? I hope he doesn't allow this crap to bother him because this is ridiculous.
He is not entitled to push down on the ball to fake it being embedded.
There is no way on a slight bounce that the ball would have created an indentation. He has been caught cheating in the past and he was cheating here again.
The problem is his past history, the problem is he said something different to what the volunteer woman said and he clearly had his way with the official sad. Don't make excuses for a cheater.
@@polarbear4612 he literally didn’t. What you see at 1:27 is him pushing his tee in. You people are on something I swear.
@@db2939 BS, you can’t tell what he is doing from that angle.
What we know FOR SURE, is that a ball that bounces up a foot cannot make an indentation... so where did the indentation come from? Given the prior video evidence that Reed is a cheater, I see no reason not to suspect him here.
@@polarbear4612 Absolutely! I 100% agree with you. Imo, anyone saying anything otherwise is either ignorant or biased.
Why didn't any of the golf channel "experts" go back and check out the pitch mark after the group moved on just to see what it looked like ???
He pushed a hole into the ground. Watch it again. He wasn't just feeling the ground he was pushing on the ground
Absolutely. Based on his past actions we all know he wasn't probing the ground with his finger, he was using it to create a half round circle with a lip. Simple.
you have no idea what he did or did not do . .end of story
@@markbourdo1219 Yes you're right Mark. I have no idea what he actually did or didn't do there. That's why I prefaced my comment with "based on his past actions". We all know the stories about him since college, we've all seen him cheat on several occasions ... on TV. The ball hit and bounced. It dropped from a distance of about 1 and1/2 feet and in my estimation as someone who plays golf( I'm sure that you do as well), that ball could not have embedded. Rorys ball hit and bounced straight up and (as far as several golfers have said) seemed to come down in the actual ball mark thus leaving him with a true embedded lie. And lastly, Patrick told the officials that "they said it didn't bounce" which of course is not true. The marshall said she didn't "see it" bounce. listen Mark I'm not having a go at you, I happen to like watching Patrick play. He's really good. Which is why so many people have some kind of feelings about him. You know ... stop friggin cheating Pat. Just play the game. Sorry, 1 more, look at the film at 1:26 , he presses down so hard it lifts his body up. End of story?
@@markbourdo1219 I watched the video of him pressing down on the ground. End of story
Watching from the Uk 🇬🇧 Patrick does not give a shit , it’s so funny he gets away with it .......can’t wait for his caddy to write a book - what a story 💰💰💰💰💰📙
What are you talking about? He checked, asked and made sure it was embedded
Rory and Patrick acted well.
Anyone who disagrees, does not know the rules
If he didn't have anything to hide, he would not have lifted the ball. A rules official cannot make a ruling if the ball is not where it comes to rest.
Can't believe so many of you sticking up for this guys maybe you are used to cheating so it's ok in your eyes. They are making a mockery of the game they know cameras are everywhere but they have been doing it for so long they believe it's ok. The game of golf is going to suffer they better take the cameras away and no close ups. They all cheat if giving a chance please take your blinders off.
@@ll-bc7ou what are you talking about?
One can always lift the ball and check (embedded, cracked ball, etc) You must mark and not clean. When done replace where and how it was.
All caps response about Rory, but Rory isn’t a person who has been accused of cheating before. That’s why there is no issue. Plenty of people stand in front of banks every day, no on bats an eyelid. BUT, if a guy who is accused of robbing that said bank a few times is standing out front, people ask questions.
GolfChannel needs to get more anchors that have diverse OPINIONS
Shane is very annoying
Is this another video which supports the reasons why the Golf Channel is being sued?
The volunteer did not say it didn’t bounce she said she didn’t see if it did.
Watch the video evidence and easy done move on.
She clearly said no
What’s wrong with Patrick? Seems like he’s always trying to find away to get around the rules! 🤦♂️
Beining a lifelong competitive golfer I’ve always called over a playing partner to verify if the ball was embedded.
yes or u wont be playing with buddies for long; even if its only for a quarter lol
I’ve always played embedded balls...
If it was embedded he wouldn’t have called a rules official, he would’ve taken a drop by himself. He knew it was NOT embedded right after he picked the ball up, and he used the rules official as a red herring to push down on the ball to make a hole in the ground so when the rules official examines the spot there is a hole in the ground. It’s common sense... cheating.
Probably
Bullshit!! The ball CLEARLY bounced the first time it hit the ground! That was Crystal Clear on the video tape. There was a first bounce that was at least 3 feet high. It DIDN'T bounce on the second hop. That hop was in NO WAY high or hard enough to break ground. He was WRONG and violated the rules of golf PERIOD.
How did he? The official made the call, not reed.
@@db2939 Reed called for the rules official. At that point he lost the right to move the ball or clean the ball, BOTH of which he did. he also lost his right to decide whether it was imbededd.
1:27 you can clearly see him push the ball into the ground. His weight goes forward and he pushes it down to make the “lip”
He wasn't pushing the ball @$$F@C3!!! He was placing his tee! You are so stupid! Change your name to Bed Pan... Full of ...
@@pepperstevens481 really these guys are idiots....