Modders Say 'Starfield' Can't Be Fixed...

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  • Опубликовано: 24 дек 2024

Комментарии • 6 тыс.

  • @LukeStephensTV
    @LukeStephensTV  Год назад +403

    Follow my other channels or I'll make you play more Starfield: linktr.ee/lukestephens

    • @lifeofdylan1766
      @lifeofdylan1766 Год назад +6

      Red flaaaagggg

    • @5226-p1e
      @5226-p1e Год назад +3

      i didn't see your pol, so i'm going to put my vote in now.

    • @MonkeyspankO
      @MonkeyspankO Год назад +3

      bgs knows better than most, its funny people think they need to be "convinced." If only they would listen to the customer! lmao. They know and don't care. Negative feedback is just something to be managed by PR and not learned from. Tbc, the braintrust over there is 100% comfortable taking their well earned reputation to the middle of the ocean and sinking it, if its means a good quarter and bonuses all around. That's just business.

    • @Personalinfo404
      @Personalinfo404 Год назад

      random question, your tee shirts look pretty nice, what brand if you dont mind me asking? id like to pick some up.

    • @5226-p1e
      @5226-p1e Год назад +4

      @@lifeofdylan1766
      what is a red flag that your talking about? sorry but without context, your comment will always be taken out of context when there is no context to draw off of.

  • @computaterjones
    @computaterjones Год назад +14970

    You know it's bad when Bethesda's best employees can't fix the game.

    • @Azraelseraphim
      @Azraelseraphim Год назад

      This is what happens when you have Nepotism and DEI in the workplace. You chase away your talent.

    • @mkzhero
      @mkzhero Год назад +550

      'Fixing (and heck, MAKING) a game' is a job for coders...
      And i'm convinced they largely didn't even HAVE those employed for them at all for about two decades!

    • @chilbiyito
      @chilbiyito Год назад +235

      ​@@mkzherothat happened at 343 they had to bring some in to fix halo infinite anyways

    • @aarons3014
      @aarons3014 Год назад +219

      Laughed out loud. Thank you.

    • @Sxekilljoy
      @Sxekilljoy Год назад +91

      More like volunteers

  • @sunsaintapollo11
    @sunsaintapollo11 Год назад +3698

    Bethesda modders not being able to fix the game is the gaming equivalent to the smartest kid in class panicking during a test they studied for

    • @seahyx120
      @seahyx120 Год назад +523

      Nah it's more the modders read the paper, put it down and walked out the door, saying that it's a waste of their time.
      The paper is blank, except for some circles.

    • @jobloluther
      @jobloluther Год назад +8

      America first is inevitable

    • @whrussy
      @whrussy Год назад +24

      This particular thing doesnt need fixing. This insatiable urge to make every planet a seamless vast empty is strange. The galaxy is the "planet" in this game, and the planets are the POIs. People gotta stop trying to stick a round peg in a square hole just cause thats what they're used to. Its a new IP, with a new way to explore. Its not broken just because it isnt the same static gamespace crammed with "cool statue" or "broken down house" or "dryad tree" pois.

    • @Bomberman66Hell
      @Bomberman66Hell Год назад +146

      @@whrussy Hi Pete Hines alt account!

    • @jonathanwessner3456
      @jonathanwessner3456 Год назад +125

      @@whrussy It isn't even the locked off planetary exploration, it is the FACT that EVERY aspect of the game was done better by someone else. It is the FACT that THIS is NOT the game they told us they were giving us. It is boring, more than just "Empty planet boring". Heck, even having SOMETHING to discover after 5 minutes of walking would be good

  • @tilenkobe
    @tilenkobe Год назад +1964

    Bethesda just went one step further and not only let modders fix their game but their whole engine. Todd really is a visionary.

    • @WhyteLis21
      @WhyteLis21 Год назад +41

      @alexcruba4928 Imagine, 30th century holodeck and AI made by Todd's game engine. Lol.

    • @elijahaitaok8624
      @elijahaitaok8624 Год назад +18

      ​@@WhyteLis21 the 30th century game can play Starfield which can play fallout 76, which can play fallout 4, which can play elder scrolls 6, which can play Skyrim, which can play oblivion, which can play fallout 3, which can play Doom.

    • @WhyteLis21
      @WhyteLis21 Год назад +12

      @@elijahaitaok8624 Ah, the old backward compatibility, eh? 👍

    • @elijahaitaok8624
      @elijahaitaok8624 Год назад +4

      @@WhyteLis21 not just backward compatibility, but a bit of forward compatibility too

    • @DjDiversant
      @DjDiversant Год назад +2

      Meta modding 😅

  • @RelativelyBest
    @RelativelyBest 11 месяцев назад +440

    Goddammit. I'm Bethesda game veteran so I knew all along we weren't going to get good storytelling or deep roleplaying opportunities, and I was okay with that. The two things I was counting on was A) a good exploration experience and B) modders going crazy and using the game as a basis for amazing stuff. Then the game comes out and I learn that Bethesda failed at the two things they're actually supposed to be very good at.
    How do you make essentially the same game for twenty years, earning critical acclaim, a loyal fanbase and financial success, and still somehow fail to understand what you're doing right?

    • @vishrrfa
      @vishrrfa 10 месяцев назад +5

      I think it's because they focus more on the tv show

    • @Yora21
      @Yora21 10 месяцев назад +38

      All the Elder Scrolls modders should get together and just make their own game from scratch.
      They absolutely have the skills, time, and resources to make a better game foundation than Bethesda.

    • @basilciccone1679
      @basilciccone1679 9 месяцев назад +11

      @@Yora21they absolutely do not have the time to all get together and CREATE a whole video game you are crazy man lol

    • @Yora21
      @Yora21 9 месяцев назад +15

      @@basilciccone1679 Tamriel Rebuilt claims to have started working on their giant mod pretty much right when Morrowind first came out in 2002. They do have time.

    • @hecc7906
      @hecc7906 9 месяцев назад +2

      Creation Kit isn't out for Starfield yet bro how're they supposed to "go crazy" with no mod tools? This video is misinformation

  • @Igor19485
    @Igor19485 Год назад +3821

    You know it's bad when even modders are done lmaoo

    • @benjaminamouroux8395
      @benjaminamouroux8395 Год назад +32

      Truth! Facts me!

    • @noobbotgaming2173
      @noobbotgaming2173 Год назад +415

      And the funniest part of the situation is you have the Starfield defenders say Cyberpunk 2077 needed time to be in a playable state. I always defeat those people with an uncounterable statement: Cyberpunk's story, characters, world, art style and density was solid. It simply needed polishing. You can't polish something if you don't have it. Starfield is a 2010 title released in 2023.

    • @Igor19485
      @Igor19485 Год назад

      @@noobbotgaming2173 Also CD PROJEKT RED is a reputable company and they were gonna do everything they could to fix their game's disastrous launch. Bethesda just don't care and don't bother to fix their games, let the modders do it.

    • @infernoeagles5812
      @infernoeagles5812 Год назад +107

      Starfield is a beta game that’s not finished
      Cyberpunk has a amazing story solid design choices and committed to everything it did unlike starfield cyberpunk was buggy but was still great

    • @SobeCrunkMonster
      @SobeCrunkMonster Год назад +11

      you know its bad when the game is tried for a few hours. the nameless faceless numberless group of modders you refer to has nothing to do with it.

  • @joshyoder871
    @joshyoder871 11 месяцев назад +1083

    Starfield had so much potential. The best way I've described it is Bethesda wanted to give the modders an open sandbox...but they expected the modders to bring the sand too.

    • @TalesOfWar
      @TalesOfWar 11 месяцев назад +171

      And the box.

    • @cirkleobserver3217
      @cirkleobserver3217 11 месяцев назад +54

      What potential? Where? Building an open world space game has potential as an idea but you have to implement it.

    • @drakesilmore3760
      @drakesilmore3760 11 месяцев назад +77

      The idea you had of Starfield had potential. The idea you had was an illusion. Bethesda did not make what you thought would have potential. Starfield, the one we got, the way that it is, never had potential.

    • @AnonymousAnonposter
      @AnonymousAnonposter 11 месяцев назад +22

      The only potential this game had was realized. To be a joke that opened the eyes of many people.

    • @CupGuyDude12
      @CupGuyDude12 11 месяцев назад +11

      bro what potential did u see in fast traveling to every quest and a loading screen for every building

  • @evesixphoenix8541
    @evesixphoenix8541 11 месяцев назад +1732

    I think its important to put into context the issue that much smaller studios with Hello Games and Frontier Developments were able to achieve seamless massive scale planets over 6 years ago. With Bethesda’s size and countless other studios to get assistance from, it was absolutely a solvable problem they thought they didn’t need to solve.

    • @oldm9228
      @oldm9228 11 месяцев назад +260

      Let's just be real they wanted to save money by using the same engine they used for skyrim although it's not fit for this type of game. Todd Howard himself got high on Skyrim's success (even releasing it again and again) and could not see that the engine's limitations when it comes to making a space game.

    • @Razumen
      @Razumen 11 месяцев назад +126

      It IS a bigger problem for Bethesda though, they have a massive amount of tech debt, which is entirely their fault because they've been dragging their feet updating the engine forever, but changing an established engine, and by necessities, its tools, so drastically, they probably might as well just start from scratch again. But again, everyone there is probably so intimately familiar with the Gamebryo engine's quirks and strengths, that doing that would basically mean EVERYONE would have to be retrained.
      I'm not making excuses for them tho, this is just why I think they made that decision, even if it was the wrong one.

    • @TheMadmanAndre
      @TheMadmanAndre 11 месяцев назад +92

      Bethesda have chained themselves to Creation Engine, and that thing's going to drag them down.

    • @Razumen
      @Razumen 11 месяцев назад +67

      @@TheMadmanAndre Wouldn't have been so bad if they did a better job keeping it updated to modern standards and features, but that would actually require them to spend money on it, so of course they didn't.

    • @gucciguy3408
      @gucciguy3408 11 месяцев назад +57

      I really hated how they decided how they'd do civilization in Starfield and the fact the biggest cities are so small is a big point of it.
      I also really hate that they went with the no sentient aliens type of game to...As that makes it even more boring of a space game and means they didn't wanna create more unique species unlike there other type of aliens where they seemed to take a lot from other space themed things.

  • @kylesmith8383
    @kylesmith8383 11 месяцев назад +573

    It blows my mind that planet exploration in this game is akin to what we had in mass effect 2. And at least in mass effect we had a vehicle. The main difference being that instead of hand crafted fishbowls With three points of interest, BGS gave us Procedurally generated fishballs with three points of interest.

    • @Ozcogger
      @Ozcogger 11 месяцев назад +64

      Tbf I played through ME recently and there is more detail on those planets than all of Starfield. It's wild.

    • @TalesOfWar
      @TalesOfWar 11 месяцев назад +98

      To be fair to BSG, Mass Effect 2 was using a far, far more advanced engine than Starfield. Unreal Engine 3.

    • @WILLINGLYWILD
      @WILLINGLYWILD 11 месяцев назад +13

      @@TalesOfWar😂 good one

    • @augustday9483
      @augustday9483 11 месяцев назад +22

      ME2 has a much better story and writing, too.

    • @Adam-wt5id
      @Adam-wt5id 11 месяцев назад +34

      You can literally read information and lore even on unexplorable planets in mass effect. It will tell you if it was a mining planet or a planet with colonies and give you actual world building even if it isnt more gameplay

  • @thetroll1984
    @thetroll1984 Год назад +667

    My problem is that even if we get whole huge planets to explore, I just see no reason to do such a thing because it would just be empty and devoid of anything interesting.

    • @godfatherezio
      @godfatherezio Год назад +52

      They should have just had one single planet to explore, and even then it would have been mostly empty.

    • @SobeCrunkMonster
      @SobeCrunkMonster Год назад +15

      is that your problem? or is that everyones problem and we all already know this and we all have already said this countless times? its like saying “my problem is that every night i get tired and need to sleep until the next morning”.

    • @SussedRage
      @SussedRage Год назад +59

      Elite did "loneliness" and exploring empty planets really well because you could fly across them, scout, look for signs of activity (crashed ships, alien bases etc)
      The reason Starfield does so poorly in this regard is every player knows its all fake - you're never feeling like you're finding stuff. You're having content loaded in for you to enjoy - it's a system designed by people who've forgotten the very nature of why exploration/immersion made their games successful. They've created almost like a souless AI version of what "open world" means.
      We all know all games are fake, but Starfield exposes it and rubs it in players faces lol

    • @thetroll1984
      @thetroll1984 Год назад +33

      @@SobeCrunkMonster i do indeed have to sleep until the next morning correct

    • @fuzzydude64
      @fuzzydude64 Год назад +8

      @@godfatherezio Only having one planet kind of defeats the purpose of using space as a backdrop for an open-world RPG though. Still, 10 or less worlds would have been more than enough. Honestly 3-5 would be a good number along with a few small rng planets for resources. They don't even need to be full planets, no amount of openness is impressive if it's all empty and boring. I can think of multiple ways they could have gone about this, but this wasn't it.

  • @AC-ut3nk
    @AC-ut3nk Год назад +2654

    You can't fix something that doesn't exist.
    - Exploration
    - RPG
    - Meaningful story
    Doesn't exist in Starfield

    • @r.e.z9428
      @r.e.z9428 Год назад +323

      - Characters with more depth than a thimble.

    • @JediKnightoftheTifaCult
      @JediKnightoftheTifaCult Год назад +252

      Starfield is just a walking simulator. That's why they didn't want to give you rovers because then it wouldn't even be that. 😂

    • @r.e.z9428
      @r.e.z9428 Год назад +116

      @@JediKnightoftheTifaCult It would have broken the engine, even though autists modders got it to work in New Vegas.

    • @chillhour6155
      @chillhour6155 Год назад +42

      Starfield is a boneless chicken

    • @20tetsuo77
      @20tetsuo77 Год назад +2

      You actually can... with mods. But if mods are a problem, on the other hand...

  • @Chris-dy1cb
    @Chris-dy1cb Год назад +1020

    If starfields reception isn't a wake up call for Bethesda I don't know what more we can do to prevent ES6 from being mediocre and forgettable. The developers that made the best Bethesda has to offer are long gone so it appears. Great video!

    • @michaelfiori6700
      @michaelfiori6700 Год назад +145

      That's kinda all game studios. All the people who make ubisoft, Bethesda, bungie, rockstar, etc...
      They are all gone or retired.... so much knowledge and skill of game making forgotten.

    • @TheDXJC56
      @TheDXJC56 Год назад +148

      Woulda thought FO76 was enough, why anyone's expecting this to be any different is beyond me 😂

    • @mcmarkmarkson7115
      @mcmarkmarkson7115 Год назад

      Wake up call? They made insane cash. They will keep releasing trash for as long as people buy it

    • @drewbydoobydoo2918
      @drewbydoobydoo2918 Год назад +32

      I feel the same way about Bungie. D2 has had some good stuff, but a lot of crap. I've heard people suggest giving Halo back to Bungie, but I really don't think it would matter. Everyone who made Halo what it was is long gone, especially after the recent purge. I'm waiting to see how Marathon turns out, but I can't get too excited.

    • @yt_hatesfreespeech
      @yt_hatesfreespeech Год назад +25

      it should be a wake up for every company that takes 10yrs to make a game, how can Ubisoft a much poorer company make a game as big as Valhalla in 3yrs while Starfield takes 10? just the main questline of Valhalla is 3 times bigger than Starfield.

  • @brennanpratt1937
    @brennanpratt1937 11 месяцев назад +1192

    Outer Wilds apparently had to deal with the floating point error (its game world is a seamless solar system) and did so by moving the world around the character rather than the reverse. The character was always at the center of the game's world.

    • @TalesOfWar
      @TalesOfWar 11 месяцев назад +203

      That's also a better game in many, many other ways lol. Like decisions actually meaning something and having consequences..

    • @duelz9366
      @duelz9366 11 месяцев назад +35

      @@TalesOfWarone of my favorite games tbh
      Amazing game

    • @AlleluiaElizabeth
      @AlleluiaElizabeth 11 месяцев назад +27

      So, Dr. Farnsworth worked there?

    • @UristMcKerman
      @UristMcKerman 11 месяцев назад +66

      There is a great KSP way of going around floating point error. Your universe coordinate consists of 2 coordinates. 1st is your precise coordinates inside current instance, it is used for physics and graphics. 2nd is instance coordinates from center of space systems, which used to render planets and calculate trajectories

    • @Кирилл-с5л9г
      @Кирилл-с5л9г 11 месяцев назад +12

      Also in Raft your raft is the center of the world

  • @seekittycat
    @seekittycat Год назад +784

    Todd: We made this game for modders
    Modders: So you're going to make the game modder friendly? You won't randomly update causing all the mods to break? You're going to make file organization easy to use and listen to our suggestions?
    Todd: Nope! It's friendly to modders cause it's empty and boring!

    • @kremesauce
      @kremesauce Год назад +117

      He literally thinks that cause it’s empty that people will just fill it with stuff. Like an artist with an empty canvas. Hey Todd, artists need tools and something to go off. Not a literal complete blank canvas

    • @finnz7786
      @finnz7786 Год назад +5

      Cook

    • @niceto_meet_you2528
      @niceto_meet_you2528 Год назад +60

      @@kremesauce I feel sorry for the modding community because they are literally just doing bugthesda's work but for free.

    • @gyrozeppeli00
      @gyrozeppeli00 Год назад +26

      Bethesda updates skyrim to break all the mods so only option is their paid mods, its one of their business strats, why are you even surprised 😂

    • @hyperturbotechnomike
      @hyperturbotechnomike Год назад +11

      @Kremesauce. Bethesda has a bad history with canvas. Nobody wants to paint on plastic foil.

  • @tylerpehringer5272
    @tylerpehringer5272 Год назад +524

    Honestly, this only made me feel worse about Elder Scrolls 6. They really need to reevaluate how they make their rpgs. So many companies have improved what an open world rpg is and Bethesda just doesn't want to innovate themselves.

    • @hare75
      @hare75 Год назад +35

      Todd doesn't care anymore

    • @Samsonfs
      @Samsonfs Год назад +47

      Gonna come out in 2028 like 10 years outdated 😂

    • @losmosquitos1108
      @losmosquitos1108 Год назад +28

      As long as they won‘t change the engine and most of the leading staff incl. Emil Pagliarulo and Todd (I don‘t mean naming it creation engine 3, that doesn‘t count 😉), there is no hope and I pray, also no hype, again.

    • @Igor19485
      @Igor19485 Год назад +43

      Yea expect Elder Scrolls VI to have same severely outdated engine as last 5 or so Bethesda games with same quest design and everything. They will have to rely on modders again to keep their game relevant. Honestly this company baffles me. I'm just glad that Starfield got such polarizing reception, it means people are done with their shit.

    • @hexadecimal973
      @hexadecimal973 Год назад +4

      Hopefully they learn from baldur's gate 3 because it won goty

  • @andyespinozam
    @andyespinozam Год назад +985

    Modders should not make Bethesda’s life easier.

    • @LordOOTFD
      @LordOOTFD Год назад +120

      Considering how the Bethesda leadership acts entitled to the modding community, I don't think they deserve it.

    • @haisibanaag1563
      @haisibanaag1563 Год назад +101

      More like "Modders shouldn't be doing their jobs and for free."

    • @kingvinoda3896
      @kingvinoda3896 Год назад +55

      ​@@haisibanaag1563shhhhhh don't talk about money or Todd's gonna come for his cut!

    • @someguy4252
      @someguy4252 Год назад +16

      @@kingvinoda3896 yup the dredded creation club.

    • @Ale-dd3ek
      @Ale-dd3ek Год назад +15

      Modders should sieze the means of production 😂

  • @KantFromEC
    @KantFromEC 8 месяцев назад +9

    I played starfield for the first time in 3 months today and there still aren’t city maps. The fact that a flat render couldn’t be implemented in that time makes me believe there will be nothing beyond shattered space… whatever TF that ends up being.

  • @doomskull7549
    @doomskull7549 Год назад +778

    The farlands in minecraft being caused by floating point inaccuracy is actually just a common misconception. The farlands were caused by the failure of the noise generators used for terrain generation beyond those coordinates. While floating point innaccuracy artifacts can be seen in the farlands, the innacuracy does not get so bad as to make the game unplayable until you are much further out than the start of the farlands.

    • @KuroKarma
      @KuroKarma 11 месяцев назад +95

      This! I fear general audience are going to be confused about what a float is and the farlands issues after watching this video.

    • @jsbarretto
      @jsbarretto 11 месяцев назад +65

      That's still an FP precision issue though, it's just manifesting in a different component of the game. Where FP precision issues manifest is never clear or straightforward since it depends on the specific calculations the game is making. You might be able to represent your position just fine, for example, but your velocity might be unworkably broken if you use something like verlet integration to do physics. It's just another expression of that loss of precision.

    • @BouncingTribbles
      @BouncingTribbles 11 месяцев назад +20

      Yeah, he talked about it very generally including the islands and stuff, but then he showed the actually glitching later. Very misleading

    • @clinch4402
      @clinch4402 11 месяцев назад +2

      ☝🤓

    • @osmacar5331
      @osmacar5331 11 месяцев назад +7

      it is still a flop issue just not the same as has been said. the noise generation is having an overflow error and having to adhock a solution to not die.

  • @RedlinePush
    @RedlinePush 11 месяцев назад +301

    In my opinion, the issue is not the ability to travel between tiles. The fast travel between fishbowls could be fine. The problem is there is no content. In skyrim I find it enjoyable to abstain from fast travel because I run across so much quest and story content while exploring. This to me is the core of an exploration game. Give me a reason to want to go off the beaten path.

    • @Razumen
      @Razumen 11 месяцев назад +29

      But that's the problem with Starfield, there is no exploration, you can't discover POI's because they're either on a map, or on your hud already. Imagine if every POI was already on your map or hud in Skyrim as soon as you were 500ft away. You would never need to look for them, because long before you could even SEE them, you'd know they're there.
      There is no "off the beaten path" In Starfield, you either go to designated areas the developers have deigned you to be able to go, with content you know is there (RNG events don't count because random encounters is not exploration) or you simply don't, because you literally can't.

    • @Crese1947
      @Crese1947 11 месяцев назад +8

      And that's something that's potentially solvable with mods and/or major DLC. Making content additions to the procedural generation engine may be something actually feasible with the CK2

    • @Razumen
      @Razumen 11 месяцев назад +11

      @@Crese1947 No, it's not really, for reasons this video goes into. It would require a complete overhaul of how space travel works, if that's even possible given the engine's problems with accuracy, along with all the changes that would have to be done with the current locations to get them to work within the new system.
      No, Bethesda isn't going to change the core game from here on, and they've made zero indications they would, because why would they? Despite the criticism the game still sold like hotcakes.
      And modders aren't going to be able to fIx it because they'd need access to the source code, something the modding lot will absolutely NOT provide.

    • @Crese1947
      @Crese1947 11 месяцев назад +9

      @@Razumen
      In context, I OBVIOUSLY didn't say that making entire planets tiles connect is feasible, I said injecting new POI's into the pregen system could be possible.
      It's one thing to rewrite the entire games fucking code, it's another thing to make additions to an already established base.
      Bethesda has a pregen system for each tile that has POI's, it shouldn't take years of work to increase the chances of POI's spawning and adding variety to the pregen system.
      Even if modders can't do that for reasons that have nothing to do with float points, they can still make static tiles (Non-pregenned tiles, like the major cities).
      It wouldn't be a stretch to say a modder could make a new planet full of custom made tiles. It wouldn't require reqriting the games code and would rely primarily on the creation kit.
      Nobody is stepping up to claim making planets with soley custom content is impossible, because planets are just a collection of worldspaces.
      Again, modders CAN fix exploration. I don't give a damn whether or not exploring a planet without bounds is possible, just that each tile (Which is said to be the size of the Skyrim map) is hand-tailored by mods, or (if possible) a shit ton of POI's are added to the pregen system.
      TL;DR: Modders can absolutely make use of the already existing pregen system by adding more content to it, and failing that they can just make a tile like new atlantis and fill it with content. Reading comprehension is your best friend.

    • @Razumen
      @Razumen 11 месяцев назад +5

      @@Crese1947 Finding randomly placed POIs isn't exploration, it's just chance. Not to mention you don't discover anything in planets anyways, they're on your hud way and map long before you can see them.
      And if they can't fix space exploration, which they can't and won't, then they definitely can not fix exploration as a whole.

  • @Wind14011
    @Wind14011 Год назад +530

    Honestly, I feel that making the game flyable and more open world wouldn't fix anything at all.
    The problem isn't how you get to the ground, but the fact that what you are doing on the ground isn't fun, interesting, varied enough or narratively cohesive.
    What this game needs is better systems that are worth interacting with, a survival system that requires you to invest in your suite to not die, a system that make your crew important and not suck ass, and content to do with the ship (which is probably better done while in space)
    The core loop of "I land on the ground and I do stuff" is broken, not because it's not functional but because the "stuff" is not worth doing most of the time.

    • @exantiuse497
      @exantiuse497 Год назад +86

      A lot of people have said that Bethesda should've scrapped the concept of near unlimited randomly generated planets altogether and had the game focus entirely on one planet with one or at most a handful of different planets with well designed maps. And I agree. The core concept of the game is not something I believe most BGS fans wanted. Bethesda tried to make No Man's Sky for an audience that wanted Skyrim in space and failed in all accounts

    • @Wind14011
      @Wind14011 Год назад +56

      @exantiuse497
      To be fair, I think randomly generated stuff could have worked if it was done with more...competence.
      Like,. the randmly generated stuff is good as background fluff, it just can't be THE content.
      Also there should be planets with no genereted human structures, it's so dumb that the whole theme of the game is "to go where nowhere else has ever gone" and on literal any planet there are man-made structures, it completely ruins the vibe.
      In fact, there should be missions that ask us to build the goddamn outposts for someone else and then give them control, currently the outpost system barely has a purpose.
      Make us feel like the vanguard of humanity.

    • @delfinenteddyson9865
      @delfinenteddyson9865 Год назад +16

      @@Wind14011 "to go where nowhere else has ever gone" . I feel like they failed on that account when they decided how interplanetary and system travels are done lorewise. If you can instantly jump from one system to the next, then there is no opportunity-cost attached to space-travel. The only opportunity cost might be piracy.

    • @Wind14011
      @Wind14011 11 месяцев назад +19

      @@delfinenteddyson9865 I think the game needs survival elements to fully drive that home. .
      Fuel, life support, food, to make it feel like going somewhere takes effort.
      That said, even without those at the very least making sure unexplored planets are actually empty of people should have been step 1 and they didn't even make it there.

    • @delfinenteddyson9865
      @delfinenteddyson9865 11 месяцев назад +3

      @@Wind14011 I agree with you, it's kinda sad the more you think about it

  • @tessa63627
    @tessa63627 11 месяцев назад +171

    TLDR; one of the problems with Starfield, in his opinion, is the fishbowl effect when you load into a planet. And this problem is something he would really like to see fixed but it isn't possible due to how the game is built.
    He spends the rest of the time explaining the specifics.

    • @justanotheremptychannel2472
      @justanotheremptychannel2472 11 месяцев назад +4

      Thanks

    • @ScumClassWorks
      @ScumClassWorks 9 месяцев назад +3

      If only he could explain those specifics once, instead of repeating every point over and over.

    • @LecherousLizard
      @LecherousLizard 9 месяцев назад +17

      The "fishbowl effect" is literally the least problematic things about the game.
      Gunplay is garbage (the game has basically no melee), space fights are garbage, ship building is garbage, base building is an even bigger garbage, quests are garbage, cities are garbage, all the three random POIs are garbage, the flora and fauna are garbage (there's like a total of 15 animals that ONLY vary in names planet-to-planet). The fact the game is a loading screen simulator on top of that only exacerbates all of those problems.

  • @nyyfandan
    @nyyfandan Год назад +277

    By no means am I an expert, but I've dabbled in mod creation for Bethesda games and released a few things in the past. Couldn't agree more with the feeling of how pointless it feels with Starfield. The desire to make mods usually started with an idea to improve small things about the game, not fundamentally alter entire pillars of the game from the ground up.

    • @natchu96
      @natchu96 Год назад +30

      If you're gonna do something that extensive, from where I'm looking at it you might as well just make your own game...

    • @BlueBD
      @BlueBD Год назад +34

      ​@@natchu96 that's what I said. The amount of shit that Would have to be "fixed" I thought about doing I started to think
      "Why am I bothering with this... I should just make my own game"
      If it's So broken that modders start to think Going Indie would be time better served well... Let's just say Maybe Starfield would cause a future where BGS style games start popping up in the future

    • @fuzzydude64
      @fuzzydude64 Год назад +16

      It took me weeks or months just to learn the GECK enough to mash two basement mods for Skyrim together. All they do is edit the same cell and I wanted to use both of them. I managed to pull it off but good god do i have a lot of respect for full-scale modders. Expecting them to fix Starfield for free is absolutely insane

    • @sagearmaggedon7307
      @sagearmaggedon7307 Год назад +1

      Maybe those things dont need to be altered. Maybe people only think they do.

    • @jolt187
      @jolt187 Год назад +4

      @@sagearmaggedon7307 I mean, I don't think it's the end of the world as we know it that we're doomed to a life of loading screens and fast travels to move from fishbowl to fishbowl. People just need to reevaluate the priorities and make the fishbowl really cool.
      But it's currently not really cool. People are right about that at least.

  • @tiberiuskirk2593
    @tiberiuskirk2593 Год назад +569

    As a long time mod user/novice modder primarily for New Vegas I knew the "1000 planets" and "space exploration" aspect of Starfield was doomed from the start. A brief explanation of how Creation Engine (Gamebryo) games work. You have World Spaces consisting of Cells that lead into other Cells that load in as you move forward. Notably, Skyrim early on had a consistent problem with the speed of a player mounted on a horse being too fast for the game to load the content of cells. At initial release, or heavily modded, you can still experience noticable and frequent game stutter when you leave one Cell and enter a new one and feel the game load the assets and content for said Cell. Starfield does not have vehicles because you would run right into the glitches present with the Horse speed in base release Skyrim. Now, modern gaming hardware can brute force older Bethesda engine based games like New Vegas to have working vehicles, but the reason they function at all is because hardware brute forces the game engine to load cells faster. Starfield, with its modern high poly models and HD textures, all of which are woefully un-optimized for what they are, can't handle the player moving at the speed needed for a functional vehicle.
    But lets move to "Interiors". Creation Engine handles Interiors in an extremely antiquated way. As in, everything in an individual interior is entirely loaded into the game via a loading screen. The Creation Engine handles Interior spaces akin to a matryoshka doll. An interior leading to an interior, into another, etc. The Engine is simply outdated when it comes to Data streaming and masking loading screens. Games like Cyberpunk, RDR2, and the now older MGS5 can almost seamlessly transition from exterior game spaces to interior ones. Yes, they all use loading screens, but they mask them as much as possible giving the illusion of seamless movement. But unlike Creation Engine they all handle the retrieval and loading of data and assets in a far superior, modern fashion.

    • @niceto_meet_you2528
      @niceto_meet_you2528 Год назад +76

      The ridiculous and slightly funny thing is that Starfield can't even handle the player moving at the speed needed to simulate fast walking. On pc the game stutters even on 40 series gpus. That's probably why the walking and running speed is so slow.

    • @Stratocast83
      @Stratocast83 Год назад +17

      Appreciate the break down my guy 👍👍👍

    • @Aovelius
      @Aovelius Год назад +30

      now older MGS5.... I feel my hair going grayer.

    • @theholypopechodeii4367
      @theholypopechodeii4367 Год назад +21

      ​@@AoveliusHaha yeah, that statement sounds odd until you realise it's gonna be 9 years old next year. Time flies.

    • @hatchell18
      @hatchell18 Год назад +38

      This is exactly why I don’t understand why Bethesda is so stubborn and refuses to update or swap their engine. Their games would be so much better on an engine that’s not outdated asf. The fact these dumbasses keep releasing new games on this antiqued engine is mind baffling

  • @dbzmaster1213
    @dbzmaster1213 Год назад +443

    I'm honestly so happy to see the Steam reviews more accurately representing the general public opinion of the game. I think it really needs to sink in for Bethesda that they did NOT release a masterpiece like they said they did.

    • @EM-vw7im
      @EM-vw7im Год назад +109

      ​@infinitysynthesis I really don't think it's Microsoft/Xbox hate. Otherwise there'd be more immediate negative reviews. I highly doubt that Sony fans would buy starfield on steam playing for hours upon hours just to review bomb it and seem legitimate.

    • @Eladelia
      @Eladelia Год назад +62

      @@infinitysynthesis It’s a bad game. Maybe different hardware would have helped some things (loading screens particularly) but no one reasonable would have ended up under the impression it was suddenly a good game.

    • @funasylumstudio
      @funasylumstudio Год назад +6

      @@infinitysynthesis The trolls would go away if Bethesda was more earnest about what they promised and what they promise to fix. The game doesn't deserve mostly negative reviews. Neither does it deserve to be completely exempt from criticism.

    • @funasylumstudio
      @funasylumstudio Год назад +3

      @@EladeliaIt's not bad but it's not a good game either.

    • @ectothermic
      @ectothermic Год назад +61

      @@infinitysynthesis This is the most random, stupid cope I've seen in a while. Lol.

  • @gadrianro
    @gadrianro 11 месяцев назад +179

    As a software developer I am absolutely horrified about the way you explained the way floating points work.

    • @EdadTace
      @EdadTace 11 месяцев назад +12

      I was about to comment the same :D

    • @basiicbid8032
      @basiicbid8032 11 месяцев назад +8

      Same. He mentioned that gam devs use floats to represent position because they use less data, but do integers actually use more space than floats? I thought it was the other way around

    • @akayame39
      @akayame39 11 месяцев назад +42

      My favorite part was how he described the "accuracy" dropping off in an exponential curve while the hard-edged wall of the far lands stood behind him judgingly.

    • @akayame39
      @akayame39 11 месяцев назад +11

      @@basiicbid8032 They are the same size but floats can represent larger values.

    • @DevNug
      @DevNug 11 месяцев назад +36

      @@akayame39He’s right about the accuracy degrading in an exponential curve, his explanation in general was bad tho

  • @bo-_t_-rs1152
    @bo-_t_-rs1152 11 месяцев назад +873

    I will forever be grateful to modders for all the great things they did to Skyrim. Thanks to them i still play it and it feels modern and fresh thanks to all the amazing mods they're releasing daily. Love you guys

    • @Ainarc90
      @Ainarc90 11 месяцев назад +7

      Who tells him?

    • @enlightendbel
      @enlightendbel 11 месяцев назад +24

      Skyrim and Fallout 4.
      I loved Skyrim and kept loving it thanks to modders.
      I hated Fallout 4, but came to love it thanks to modders and some of my own work.
      I hate Starfield and am sad to realize that neither me or other modders can ever make it into the game we want it to be.
      It's fucking sad.
      Luckily, Starfield being such a letdown is a big reason we've seen some new large innovations in mods for Skyrim and Fallout 4.

    • @Joyride149-1
      @Joyride149-1 11 месяцев назад +6

      I 100% agree! My question is why could I get Skyrim, with mods ( a lot of mods), looking more photorealistic than newer games made a decade later? Then I was running a 980ti and it could do it, moved to a 2080ti and it ran smoother yet barely utilized the card. I am now on a 4090 and max graphics on newer games still look archaic in comparison. You would think choosing "ultra" settings would mean something.

    • @mariawhite7337
      @mariawhite7337 11 месяцев назад +12

      I thank them for their endless love for Morrowind as well. I'm able to play as a Dremora and it's AWESOME.

    • @GloomGenetics
      @GloomGenetics 11 месяцев назад +15

      the elder scrolls series without Modders would have been Long Forgotten.

  • @Snowfly1
    @Snowfly1 11 месяцев назад +331

    As someone who works on software that has reached its 20th year of development, this hit a lot closer to home than I would've liked. The last year of my life was spent working on a "just do this" change that was time boxed for 2 weeks.

    • @BrentMalice
      @BrentMalice 11 месяцев назад +23

      f

    • @TheHighborn
      @TheHighborn 11 месяцев назад +7

      Gotta love going into technical debt

    • @ThickpropheT
      @ThickpropheT 11 месяцев назад +4

      Just add multi-tenancy to the db, shouldn't be a problem

    • @mr_confuse
      @mr_confuse 11 месяцев назад

      ​@@ThickpropheT😢

  • @matekiss9006
    @matekiss9006 11 месяцев назад +163

    It unbelievable how Bethesda didn't think about this problem in advance... Floating point problem was taught at the university (with games mentioned particularly!) when I started learning IT... 16 years ago...

    • @Spike.SpiegeI
      @Spike.SpiegeI 11 месяцев назад +5

      I'm sure they were aware of the limitations but decided to go this route anyway. It could be too expensive to build a new engine that works differently, or perhaps they figured it would take too long and they had deadlines of when they wanted this game to release. There are likely other considerations that they had to take into account.

    • @AntonioOjanguren
      @AntonioOjanguren 11 месяцев назад +15

      No it is not expensive. It is a question of take the time and work on it. CIG did it in 2013 with just a couple engineers for Cryengine 3.5. They rebuilt all the code to use 64 bit floating point. That's why Star Citizen has not a single loading screen for anything in the whole game (besides the game launch) and it's map is of 3 billion cubic kilometers.
      Everything in SC is seamless. But is not an easy task because once you've got your engine working on 64 bit FP you've got to "translate" that to 32 bit FP coordinates of the graphics card (yes, in 2024 the graphics cards are 32 bit FP).

    • @Dushess
      @Dushess 9 месяцев назад

      @@AntonioOjanguren Now they do have them. With introducing new systems we need a way to load them. So, there is wormhole journey to reach a new instance.

    • @briankale5977
      @briankale5977 9 месяцев назад

      Jokes on you, the engine was made 27 years ago, so yeah they didn't really care or have the hardware to care. (Gamebryo, not Creation, since it's just an iteration and not even their own work.)

    • @briankale5977
      @briankale5977 9 месяцев назад

      @@AntonioOjanguren Lmao are you using that as a victory saying it can be done and as a shining example? Last I saw I couldn't walk 10 feet without the game crashing due to persistence.

  • @chimeforest
    @chimeforest 11 месяцев назад +111

    A good way to visualize floats for those wondering..
    Imagine you have 5 whole numbers, and 1 decimal point. You can arrange them however you want to make numbers, but the catch is the decimal point.
    You can put it at the front and make a really small number like .00001
    Or you can put it near the end and get a really big number, like 10000.
    But you can't have both at the same time. Aka, you can have 0.1 or 98754, but you can't have 98754.1
    This is basically how floats work, but they use binary and some low-level wizardry beyond the scope of a youtube comment xP
    EDIT: This is just a simplified example. Real floats use 32bits of information and can store numbers MUCH larger than 10000, but eventually you will reach a point where you can have big numbers, or precision, but not both.

    • @jazzochannel
      @jazzochannel 11 месяцев назад +19

      yep. this is how they work. no one had planet sized grids in mind when they created the terrain-engine for the early Bethesda games. and no one with authority and technical knowledge and balls has been able to convince the management that it needs to be updated in the years that followed. so here we are.

    • @purplefood1
      @purplefood1 9 месяцев назад +3

      @@jazzochannel Even if they did could you imagine them keeping their jobs after the fucking shareholders learn they authorised it. The gaming industry is so toxic and broken it'd be funny if it wasn't people's lives and careers being ruined because of their shitty practices.

    • @gabsnandes7818
      @gabsnandes7818 9 месяцев назад +2

      ​@jazzochannel I find insane that they were like, "Yeah, lets use an ancient engine with less updates than necessary for our most complex and ambitious game"
      Like seriously, wtf

  • @alistairbuckle3450
    @alistairbuckle3450 Год назад +393

    ‘Float’ is just a data type, which the developers chose (in the past), to store a floating point number. As an analogy, maybe think of it as something like the choice of units on a compass. You could use a compass with 360 degrees or 6400 mils. It’s easier to work in degrees: less space required to write and record, calculations are simpler therefore less expensive in time (and you didn’t need it back then so why pay for the costs). But as distances increase, then the 360 degrees are far less accurate than 6400 mils e.g. if you are trying to a hit a target miles away with artillery your bearing in degree widens over distance to be inaccurate. Changing your entire system e.g. game engine to work with more accurate units or from a new moving point of reference requires a lot of work. So they didn’t.

    • @bobjoe5937
      @bobjoe5937 Год назад +2

      Lol were you a 13f?

    • @codystevens3418
      @codystevens3418 Год назад +26

      This is correct. Game engines use floats because they are more efficient to compute and store than larger data types like Doubles. Solving the floating-point resolution problem for a space game is not as straightforward as using a larger data type. A larger data type will indeed provide better resolution for greater distances but at the cost of increased computational power and RAM usage. It's not a viable solution for arbitrarily far distances, as you encounter other issues, such as having a moving origin. Luke's suggestion of using another paradigm for the scene's origin point is valid. However, it's not a simple implementation and, for most games, not worth the effort due to the complications it introduces, especially when dealing with a constantly moving origin.
      In my space simulator, I currently move all other objects in the scene relative to the ship, ensuring that the origin remains fixed. For modders, I'm not sure about the tools they have access to, but I can imagine that solving this problem effectively might be nearly impossible.
      As a side note, shaders, which are used for rendering and other high-speed mathematical operations, often utilize the "half" data type, which is half the size of a float. A half is represented as 16 bits, while a float uses 32 bits, and a double requires 64 bits.

    • @EvanOfTheDarkness
      @EvanOfTheDarkness Год назад +30

      How to handle positions across vast distances is a fundamental problem that all space exploration games need to solve. No Man's Sky, Kerbal Space Program, etc., they all solved this problem (although you can still get funny looking glitches in KSP if you can get the origin very far away). Bethesda used a very novel approach to solve this problem - they just didn't.

    • @dojelnotmyrealname4018
      @dojelnotmyrealname4018 Год назад +5

      I do want to point out that a double would be (approximately) 10 million times more precise than double(8 extra digits). But yes, that's a finite number, and space is fucking massive, so some form of multiple-origin solution would probably be appropriate.
      Also, the degrees example doesn't work that great since that's an integer example, not a float example.

    • @DevNug
      @DevNug Год назад +2

      @@dojelnotmyrealname4018Pretty sure Bethesda uses 32bit numerics for like every large value

  • @devak45167
    @devak45167 Год назад +457

    Modders @ New Vegas “We got this”
    Modders @ Skyrim “Prepare to be Amazed”
    Modders @ Starfield “Bruuuuhhh…”

    • @TheRealPentigan
      @TheRealPentigan Год назад +92

      Modders @ Fallout 4 "Yeah, we can work with this"

    • @skaetur1
      @skaetur1 Год назад +10

      Bart Simpson fight Thomas the Train.

    • @bishopsmith3796
      @bishopsmith3796 Год назад +1

      😂😂😂😂

    • @GLXY23
      @GLXY23 Год назад +19

      Modders @ Fallout 3 "We can work within reason"

    • @robotron1236
      @robotron1236 Год назад +18

      This is the only Bethesda game I have never bought. I was skeptical because I didn’t want a space game (I wanted FO or TES), and I’m glad my instincts were correct. It just looks so bland. Where’s the love Bethesda games always had? It’s just not there. It looks like they just crapped it out as a cash grab for Bill Gates.

  • @theofficialtibbs
    @theofficialtibbs Год назад +424

    As a software developer who's dabbled in planet generation in my free time, it cannot be overemphasized how difficult it is to make stuff "big". Virtually all modern engines are designed for flat areas of less than a few kilometers. Past that, everything breaks. Objects will flicker and move around, physics systems stop working, even rendering will have strange effects.
    Games have to be built for these considerations from the ground up. Many games have an entire second rendering system on top of the first for far away objects. Open world games will typically move the entire world around you once you've traveled a certain distance. And don't even get me started on what you have to deal with if the direction of "up" changes, if you have spherical worlds like No Man's Sky.

    • @MontySaurusRex_
      @MontySaurusRex_ Год назад +57

      The engine behind star citizen is insane for what it does. It's a shame it's tied to something trying to be an MMO.

    • @artemshenev7422
      @artemshenev7422 Год назад +7

      ​@@MontySaurusRex_ not only mmo, if u don't know 😊

    • @MontySaurusRex_
      @MontySaurusRex_ Год назад +55

      @@artemshenev7422 I'll believe in Squadron 42 when I can play it.

    • @artemshenev7422
      @artemshenev7422 Год назад +7

      @@MontySaurusRex_ fair enough)

    • @psoras
      @psoras Год назад +26

      I wonder how they did it in No Man's Sky. Remember that when it started, it was pretty much an indie game in terms of development.

  • @thekwoka4707
    @thekwoka4707 11 месяцев назад +20

    EVE handled the "distance" float thing by having "grids". If you went to far, it would make a new grid with a new center.
    This did cause SOME issues where some grids could be manipulated to make things invisible. (if two grids were near each other, you couldn't see anything in the other grid), but they made the grids much larger and able to merge, and it was mostly solved, or at least, too difficult to abuse.

    • @SioxerNikita
      @SioxerNikita 11 месяцев назад

      Oh, it was not too difficult to abuse, people did it XD

    • @Selrahcnedder
      @Selrahcnedder 9 месяцев назад

      can also attempt more complicated grid system where you have staggered grids to avoid issues are the boundaries. but that is the more realistic solution instead of switching from float to doubles for everything.

    • @SioxerNikita
      @SioxerNikita 9 месяцев назад

      @@Selrahcnedder Believe me, not particularly viable. EVE has a rather fine Grid system, rarely if ever breaks and it is simple.

  • @TheMaskedArcanum
    @TheMaskedArcanum Год назад +72

    They advertised the ocean, but they didnt say that it came in a bunch of fish tanks. And those fish tanks are in a warehouse where you're supposed to go in and out while they change the 4 little decorations in every tank. There's like five fish, and one of them is clearly on death's door.

    • @RandomNoNamePT
      @RandomNoNamePT 11 месяцев назад +10

      That would actually be a fire concept for a dystopian story

  • @NightShader1
    @NightShader1 Год назад +27

    Technical Explanation of the Minecraft phenomena:
    Computers work with bits.
    1 bit = maximum 2 values. 0 or 1.
    1 byte is 8 bits = maximum 255 values or a range from -128 to +127
    1 integer (a whole number) is 4 bytes = (unsigned) 0 to 4,294,967,295 or (signed) -2,147,483,648 to 2,147,483,647
    1 float (a floating point number) is 4 bytes = 3.4E +/- 38 (7 digits)
    1 double (double size floating point number) is 8 bytes = 1.7E +/- 308 (15 digits)
    Exceeding this range makes it loop around so a (signed) byte of value 127 + 1 = -128, so you get weird results or sometimes crashes as the program gets unexpected results.
    The reason of the "far lands" in Minecraft is due to the procedural calculations the game makes to generate the terrain based on the player's location. It's all based on Perlin Noise (pseudo random algorithm). Due to the large input into the algorithm based on the player's location, you get crazy outputs because of rounding errors and overflowing the range of the data types.

  • @MrReaperofDead
    @MrReaperofDead Год назад +365

    I'm a mod author. I made Nevamirr-the-Rogue for Skyrim. Even making followers is extremely difficult. I ran into issues with Creation Kit then, especially when it came to trying to set the presets to match the faces so they don't have a mixmatched head. Just imagine trying to completely overhaul the entire game of a completely outdated system. That's just madness my dude.

    • @kagerouge9007
      @kagerouge9007 11 месяцев назад +33

      Damn, so you even went through Navmesh hell, respect.

    • @level70elf
      @level70elf 11 месяцев назад +1

      lmao what a joke

    • @Gakusangi
      @Gakusangi 11 месяцев назад +32

      I recently had someone make the argument that it's Bethesda's design principles more than an engine limitation that made Starfield such a chore, without realizing at all the the design choices Bethesda made were in direct correlation with the limitations of the engine. They built it this way because it was the best way they found to make it actually work. This engine needs to get retired.

    • @cafelatte1124
      @cafelatte1124 11 месяцев назад +9

      @@Gakusangi In a lot of cases, a lot of design decisions are locked in by funding and and time that the corporate leadership will bestow on the devs.
      There's no way that Todd is willing to sink huge time, energy, and funding for any major upgrade to the engine for the following reasons:
      1. Todd has to dish out some fast and quick for $$ and to please the investors.
      2. People buy Bethesda games like hot cakes, at least historically, despite all the flaws and horrible game breaking bugs. Some news outlets report that Starfield recorded 12 million players. So even with historical failures like FO76, people still buy their games no matter what.
      3. There are community of Bethesda slaves called modders that do fixing and adding content for Bethesda. Not throwing any shade at the modders but this is probably how Bethesda views them given how they treat them.
      So with these circumstances, there's just no reason to justify any major upgrade to the system from Todd's perspective.

    • @daniellittle3249
      @daniellittle3249 11 месяцев назад +1

      Making a follower is very easy in CK... Just saying

  • @awakenthechosen
    @awakenthechosen 8 месяцев назад +2

    A floating point number, or float, is a number type in programming thay can hold decimal points. It's given more bytes than an integer (whole number) & it's data in memory is handled diffently at interpret/compile time. A double-float, or double, is just a float with double the bytes compared to a traditional float. The additional memory is used to enhance the accuracy of the number for the different contexts it's employed in.
    As far as I understand it, the further you get from the origin point, the bigger a difference a few degrees creates in calculating the player position. The distance between 2 points at a 1 degree angle 1 meter away from 0,0 is a barely noticable 1.7cm gap, but that same 1 degree angle at 100,000m away from the origin creates a 1.7km gap between the two points. A floating point number can mitigate the inaccuracies, but at some point that gap will be impossible to fill in with the limited amount of decimal places a float or double will allow for.
    At that point, the distance of the player/object from origin in a spatial context exceeds the game's ability to accurately define the player's position mathematically. That's the point where you get the farlands.
    It's actually just basic trigonometry slamming up against the limitations of binary-based computing.

  • @wsippel
    @wsippel Год назад +153

    A bunch of people wondered what the first technology mentioned in the StarEngine presentation from a few weeks ago meant: "64bit world coordinate system". This is that. Star Citizen uses a 64bit coordinate system to achieve uniform millimeter precision at solar system scale. That was the first key technology CIG developed, because without it, a seamless world of that scale simply wouldn't be possible, and everything else builds on top.

    • @RocketRenton
      @RocketRenton Год назад +37

      64 bit Integers within the code, I know what you are saying, that's the problem with Starfield it can't hold more than 4 million ID's currently resulting in crashing. They are aware but don't really care. Reddit has a detailed post, it's known as the ID bug. Goes back since Creation Engine was released all those years ago.

    • @domaxltv
      @domaxltv Год назад +14

      Programmer note: a 64bit integer is not actually any sort of advanced technology, however during the time when the creation engine was first made it essentially predated widespread use of 64 bit systems, running 32 bits instead
      And positioning in games is generally achieved not with integers but with floats, due to the ability to move the floating point for more precise positioning (at the cost of potential destabilisation of your world once you go far away from the center if you don't have a way to move said center of your reference)

    • @Timbo6669
      @Timbo6669 Год назад +3

      @@RocketRentonright…it was a big problem with Fallout 3 and 4 so it’s unforgivable that they didn’t address it.

    • @lagrangewei
      @lagrangewei Год назад +8

      firstly space game has existed for decades, star citizen is not the first game they work on that has an open universe, you do not need 64bit to make a space game. you just have to understand the principle behind the math. and most games they don't develop their own physic engine, the issue is not with the coordinate system, it with the physic engine losing precision due to the number being too big. and how this is resolve is actually very simple. you move the 2 object that is interaction into relative space of each other and calculate in that manner. you can move where the floating point is so you are near 0. and after you are done, just add the number back to it. it really very simple math.

    • @r.daneel.90
      @r.daneel.90 Год назад +5

      @@lagrangewei wow, so simple, so thats why there a a lot of games like Star Citizen... So simple...

  • @WillowTitov
    @WillowTitov Год назад +79

    "I’ve never been certain whether the moral of the Icarus story should only be, as is generally accepted, 'Don’t try to fly too high,’ or whether it might also be thought of as ‘Forget the wax and feathers, and do a better job on the wings'."
    ~Stanley Kubrick

  • @jinushaun
    @jinushaun Год назад +162

    Floats are just a way to store a number in a computer. If you wanted to remember a number like 213.86 in the game, it might be stored as 213.8600000 in the computer. That’s 3 digits left of the decimal point and 7 digits right of the decimal point for a total of 10 digits. The decimal point “floats”. Because you only have 10 slots to play with, as the left half gets bigger, the right half gets smaller. That’s why floats are very precise for small numbers but lose precision as numbers get bigger. So if you store distance as a float, as you move thousands of miles away from the center it becomes harder to track objects using inches.

    • @spaghety
      @spaghety 11 месяцев назад +10

      This should be pinned -- great explanation

    • @MasterTeeee
      @MasterTeeee 11 месяцев назад +29

      It's a good explanation, if a little inaccurate (pun intended).
      The only thing I'd add is that floating point mathematics run with the idea of an exponent. That is to say:
      12^34
      Is the same as
      49222352000000000000000000000000000000000000 to 8 s.f.
      One is very compact, and the other isn't, but they both say the same thing ultimately in terms of the number (or data) they represent. The issue becomes that as numbers get bigger (or smaller), sacrifices need to be made in how they're represented; they either need to take up more memory, or they need to be less accurate, and make concessions in using estimations, rather than absolutes.
      This is (and always has been) an issue in computational mathematics, and handling floating point mathematics is all the a gfx card actually does (for the most part). Thus why you see things quoted in FLOPS on GPU specs - Floating-Point Operations Per Second, and another reason why the more detailed a graphics simulation you're running, the more VRAM (memory) the simulation will require, because you're fighting that mathematical trade-off between memory and computation.

    • @ARKSYN
      @ARKSYN 11 месяцев назад +13

      Thanks for commenting this. I heard his explanation of floats and went “what?” That’s not what they are at all. They’re just numbers.

    • @dr.eldontyrell-rosen926
      @dr.eldontyrell-rosen926 11 месяцев назад

      He should consult with a maths person

    • @philjones7026
      @philjones7026 11 месяцев назад +3

      Thanks for adding this, was just about to write similar. Very frustrated with the explanation of floats as some magical storage concept. I think it's also important to point out (for benefit of other viewers who aren't programmers or have this knowledge) that this is not some 'Bethesda thing'; all software suffers from this limitation, but it is usually encountered in games and simulations that push the boundaries. KSP, for example, is another game that is well known for suffering from this limitation.

  • @italocunha5291
    @italocunha5291 11 месяцев назад +4

    Starfield could solve this issue of loading the procedurally generated areas with ease. They could simply come up with an excuse, saying that you need to establish a signal to communicate with the ship if it's too far away, and the signal has an X-ray radius. Every time you get far from the ship, you lose communication and get lost. Just include something like this, go to the edge, place a beacon with a cutscene, and they load from behind, nothing too complicated. At least it enhances immersion.

  • @buttergolem8584
    @buttergolem8584 Год назад +108

    Just played Skyrim again and I still find places and side quests I've never seen before. Where in Starfield you walk to somewhere and there will be nothing, in Skyrim there is always something.

    • @TheCommissarIsDead
      @TheCommissarIsDead Год назад +11

      I only play 20 hours of starfield and every second of those hours all I was thinking was “damn I need to play Skyrim again” granted I have like 500 mods in my playthroughs it’s still amazing. And plus I think Skyrim looks better,somehow😂

    • @ziephel-6780
      @ziephel-6780 Год назад +4

      It's a shame then, that Bethesda is now demanding paid mods on Skyrim.

    • @dtube441
      @dtube441 Год назад +1

      Really? It's the complete opposite for me.

    • @mercurioslevin1877
      @mercurioslevin1877 Год назад +1

      It gets even worse when you realise that each type of POI is copy pasted wholesale so once you know the foe layout and loot locations in one "abandoned mine" it will be the same for each over abandoned mine you encounter even down to the sticky note on the employee fridge warning others not to eat their sandwich again. poor space miners been to 10 "different" mines and all of them have sandwich thieves 😞

    • @buttergolem8584
      @buttergolem8584 Год назад

      @@TheCommissarIsDeadI don't even use mods. Last I played was on Xbox 360, this time is the Special Edition on Steam.

  • @polo9190
    @polo9190 Год назад +315

    The moment you said the errors would surface when “straying too far from the ship” my heart sank. I remember the devs of Outer Wilds discussing this issue in some sort of vidoc and how that problem was solved, and I just don’t think Bethesda has showed the desire or capability to make the overhauls required

    • @FrozenDozer
      @FrozenDozer Год назад +8

      I don't think Outer Wilds had this problem, but maybe I'm wrong. The gameworld in Outer Wilds really isn't all that big, it's a couple of kilometers wide. Any modern engine can support this no problem, and the game is made in Unity. Actually I just found a video where someone is 37.000km out of the Solar System and the game starts to break. The solar system in Outer Wilds is NOWHERE as wide.

    • @j.trades9691
      @j.trades9691 Год назад +64

      @@FrozenDozer Outer Wilds doesn't have this problem because they made the player character the point of origin at all times (you can trigger floating point errors if you go really, really far out and come back, but that's impossible in normal play). It's discussed in the Noclip documentary.

    • @polo9190
      @polo9190 Год назад +35

      @@FrozenDozer It did while it was in the development, but it was fixed in the way that was discussed in the video where they made the player the center point while having the solar system move around player when a movement input is made

    • @The_Man_In_Red
      @The_Man_In_Red Год назад +13

      As an indie game developer I can confirm the relationship between the player, the world, and how the player moves through the world can cause a plethora of unseen and difficult bugs to diagnose, depending on the methods chosen to accomplish these tasks.

    • @VitorHugoOliveiraSousa
      @VitorHugoOliveiraSousa Год назад +5

      ​@@FrozenDozerI don't think unity have 64bit world coordination system, and 32 bits in most engine allow for maps only 4 Km wide or something like that before the precision starts to bring problems. Outer Wilds and most game circumvent this by making the player be the point of origin and shift the position of the world and not the player through the world. That works but is not simple to implement if the engine is not built to do that. And in a game the size Starfield wants to be it's even harder, because you are dealing with really big numbers. The best solution is to rewrite the coordination system to handle 64bit precision, but that take a long ass time and effort. Just look how long it took CIG to implement this on Cryengine in the past to make solar system maps possible there.

  • @ferenc-x7p
    @ferenc-x7p 11 месяцев назад +371

    I'm a "retired" modder for both Oblivion and Skyrim (already didn't bother with Fallout) . While I only worked on some textures and did some land manipulation in Skyrim (unique places in Oblivion for those hwo played them and downloaded them) , I had no idea what BSG was doing with Starfield and how far they updated the engine or not, but I guess they didn't. The adjacent cells needed to be generated as a player moves across the world - so it looks like you are moving- while trying to avoid pop-in textures and models as best as possible and it was already messy and Skyrim already pushed the limitations on it. There was a crash problem there too, although it had to do with RAM size and pulling data from the hard drive and storing in the RAM, so it had to be conservative values, trying to find the best balance between detail pop-in vs running out of memory issues.
    . While the crash problem in this Starfiled video reveals another issue, that is actually worse than adjacent cell loading problem in Skyrim or Oblivion. It's basically a confirmation I was afraid of, which is the game is preset to only load those few cells around your landing zone and that's it. Trying to visit like N.Atlantis several cells away will not work, because it never gets pre-loaded , only the far-detail model, which isn't much different than the map in Skyrim. In a nutshell, don't expect to fly around the planets in the atmosphere with your spaceship it will probably never happen.

    • @TheBirdboy84
      @TheBirdboy84 11 месяцев назад +1

      I dont even see this as a problem for the game. if you've played the game, the flying part is the worst aspect. id rather fast travel everywhere.

    • @belgiumarthur
      @belgiumarthur 11 месяцев назад +37

      @@TheBirdboy84 If they can remove all unnecessary loading screens (to enter buildings, to take a lift, to enter spaceship), the game would become significantly more enjoyable. After the tenth loading screen in a few minutes, I start losing concentration in this game, you are losing too much time, breaking immersion in the game. Also they need to improve the fast traveling so it does not happen via a freaking menu when it is a requirement to go places. You should be able to just point your ship to any star and jump to it, not only the current objective. And instead of the starmap (which can stay) provide another alternative holographic map inside the ship. The more you think about it, the more disappointment I feel towards the developers or game design leads.

    • @amadeusagripino6862
      @amadeusagripino6862 11 месяцев назад +12

      This adjacent cell problem was always present even on Fallout games, and it gets more evident on Fallout 4, with settlements. If a settlement area is composed with multiple cells, it may fail to take into account objects built on those unloaded cells and it may lead to wrong settlement resources values. And if a settlement has too little of some resource, like food and water, happiness will go down until you lose that settlement.

    • @TheStoic84
      @TheStoic84 11 месяцев назад +20

      @@belgiumarthur All of the things you want fixed are fundamental flaws in the engine. It simply can't do those things efficiently. There's a reason every interior in Skyrim has a loading screen, and because Starfield essentially uses the same engine as Skyrim(it's a joke that they called it Creation Engine 2.0), there's no realistic fix. The moment I heard Starfield was going to be on the Creation Engine, I knew there were going to be issues.
      The next Elder Scrolls will have less issues, because it will simply be Skyrim 2.0. There will still be constant loading screens into interiors, but it won't have the fundamental flaws of Starfield, because there's less large-scale exploration/travel. However, I believe it will feel extremely outdated after we've seen what Cyberpunk, The Witcher, Baldur's Gate 3, etc. can do with very few, if any loading screens.

    • @RealEllenDeGeneres
      @RealEllenDeGeneres 11 месяцев назад +5

      @@TheBirdboy84 Your logic is astounding. So because one thing is really bad, it's ok to have another bad aspect to the game because it removes the need to experience the first bad thing. That's pure copium.

  • @KSignalEingang
    @KSignalEingang 9 месяцев назад +2

    I groaned a little at the explanation of "floats"... Here's how I'd try to explain it: "Float" is short for "floating decimal point". (I'm going to call "." a decimal point even though the internal representation is binary, dont @ me). Computers are very good at storing and manipulating whole numbers, but fractions are much more complicated. We're all familiar with fractions that don't work nicely as decimals - 1/3 is 0.3333... and so on forever. Technically an *infinite* number of 3s is required for total accuracy. Our human brains can make the leap from 0.333... to 1/3, but a machine can't, it just has to allocate what memory it can to get as much accuracy it can get. There's a lot more complexity, and I 'm not going to get into the full details of ones-complement vs twos-complement, signed floats vs unsigned, etc., but the upshot is that floats lose accuracy at higher levels of precision, meaning very small fractions cannot be accurately represented within the system. Depending on how you look at it, you get some numbers that cannot be represented at all, or you get collisions where multiple numbers have the *same* floating-point representation; this is where a lot of the "farlands" weirdness in Minecraft comes from.

  • @Darkside-tr3sx
    @Darkside-tr3sx 11 месяцев назад +132

    One of Todd’s favorite mods for Skyrim is SkyUI. It’s a shame he didn’t learn anything from it.

  • @SussedRage
    @SussedRage Год назад +69

    Elite Dangerous did space "loneliness" and exploring empty planets really well because you could fly to them, fly across them, scout, look for signs of activity (crashed ships, alien bases etc).
    But i have a feeling the average player would say that was immensely boring.
    Starfield does so poorly in this regard because every player knows its all fake - you're never feeling like you're finding stuff, you're having content loaded in for you to enjoy - it's a bizarre system designed by people who've forgotten the very nature of why exploration/immersion made their games successful. They've created almost like a souless AI version of what "open world" means.
    We all know all games are fake, but Starfield exposes it and rubs it in players faces lol
    They badly need to work on the proc gen variety and improve player connection to the world. Wonder what these "new ways to travel" will be hmmm.

    • @Ralathar44
      @Ralathar44 Год назад +2

      That worked out so well for Elite Dangerous when they expanded their scope and added on foot exploration. That expansion was a tremendous success. Oh wait.....

    • @paintdrinker455
      @paintdrinker455 Год назад +2

      Why did I read that as Ellen degeneres

    • @niceto_meet_you2528
      @niceto_meet_you2528 Год назад

      Although it's not as popular Empyrion did it pretty well too. The whole "space loneliness" thing isn't really boring when there's a reason for it but starfield doesn't have that reason. Aside from a few perks there's no real reason to explore or go hunting for resources either since you can buy what you need and selling them doesn't give you all that much.

    • @dancemeanumber6569
      @dancemeanumber6569 Год назад +2

      ​@@Ralathar44Bro going crazy with the damage control for Starfield

    • @Ralathar44
      @Ralathar44 11 месяцев назад

      @@dancemeanumber6569 What damage control? The game is out and has been out for 3 months. 90% of the playerbase is gone. just like with Elden Ring after 3 months. If there was any damage to be controlled it would have been 2-3 months ago. Starfield is what it is at this point. It's a known value for those that love it, those that don't, and the 90% of people online who didn't even play it, just watched a streamer or youtube video or two, but still participate in discussions about it lol.

  • @SuperStarWarsFan1138
    @SuperStarWarsFan1138 Год назад +373

    The main problem I have with Starfield is the procedural generation. You can "land" on different parts of the same planet, only to see the exact same cave or structure 8 times in one playthrough. With No Man's Sky, every single procedurally generated thing you see is unique and different from each other. The fact Starfield is split up into little sections because of the game engine just screams that Bethesda needs a new (or at least better) game engine.

    • @TheRealPentigan
      @TheRealPentigan Год назад +35

      No Man's Sky still has the same structures problem especially with the man-made ones. Pretty sure there's only two station layouts (regular and outlaw) and there's one of them in every star system acting as the local hub.

    • @adepressedcatwithabadnicot246
      @adepressedcatwithabadnicot246 Год назад +18

      "every single procedurally generated thing you see is unique and different from each other. "
      bruh i saw the exact same things all the time, more so than starfields, idk what you're talking about, tbh despite all of starfield's issues i still enjoy it more than NMS, honestly starfield is a more fun NMS to me, anyone can disagree with me on that. but atleast starfield has some gameplay.

    • @truebaptistfilms
      @truebaptistfilms Год назад +2

      😂😂😂 Uh, whuuuut?

    • @sawdust8691
      @sawdust8691 Год назад +23

      Eh. No Mans Sky has the same issue.
      However the amount of freedom in No Mans Sky kind of gives it a better vibe to me. And while it's all procedural I do think No Mans Sky is a better looking and funner game to "explore" even if there's nothing actually there.
      It just has a different vibe that I like more when it comes to traveling across a procedural world. Hard to nail down specifics though.

    • @kingmanic
      @kingmanic Год назад +2

      They don't necessarily need to drop their engine but it's clear they haven't reworked the engine enough to support the gameplay experience players want. Starfield is a space game dropped on top of fall out 4. They'd need a big rework to make starfield be like no man's sky. It would be a huge effort and they haven't done it and it would be basically making a new games worth of effort for modders. I don't think it's possible.

  • @Gunnl
    @Gunnl 9 месяцев назад +2

    the analogy of floats using less data than integers is completely wrong. Integers represent the mathematical set of "integer" numbers (...-1, 0, 1, ...) hence the name integer... while floats represent the mathematical set of "real" numbers ( 0.1, 0.11, 0.111, ...) but using floating point arithmetic (a specific method of representing real numbers on a computer, i.e. there are other methods but modern computer mostly use floating point arithmetic) hence the name float. They can both take the same data/memory space, e.g. 32 bit, they just represent different things. The problem however with representing real numbers in a computer, with limited memory space, is what causes the loss of precision when doing calculations for very large numbers. I.e., you cant correctly represent all possible real numbers on a computer unless you would have access to unlimited memory.

  • @RedheadJack
    @RedheadJack Год назад +235

    Starfield is missing the only good thing about BGS games. A fun to explore open-world with environmental story telling.

    • @SobeCrunkMonster
      @SobeCrunkMonster Год назад

      yea water wets, we know. who are you telling a common observation to?

    • @error_3498
      @error_3498 Год назад +19

      Environmental story telling= skeleton's and notes

    • @vayneglory655
      @vayneglory655 Год назад +16

      ​@@SobeCrunkMonster why are you even replying? Why pick a fight?

    • @TheWefikus
      @TheWefikus Год назад +1

      @@vayneglory655because the OP is just stating the obvious to farm likes

    • @Dead_Goat
      @Dead_Goat Год назад +1

      But it has that. Maybe you didn't explore? Ive found abandoned factories that turned out to be not abandoned. Detailed stories about the aftermath of some moon mining operation finding moon spiders and much much more.

  • @krisschnee3151
    @krisschnee3151 Год назад +149

    I've played a lot of "Empyrion: Galactic Survival", which lets you fly between stars and planets and land anywhere on a planet. The planet maps seem to be coded as rectangular, so that crossing a pole warps you to another point, and each has a longitudinal strip labeled "No Build Zone". Despite these slight limits the game lets you explore a big open area with procedural generation. And this was working years ago!

    • @iyziejane
      @iyziejane 11 месяцев назад +10

      Empyrion was/is great. Starfield is weak on survival/crafting but it delivers on what Empyrion and most indie space games are missing most, which are questlines, NPCs, factions.

    • @tripleh327
      @tripleh327 11 месяцев назад +8

      Yeah a played it to
      Not to mention that you could build your own vehicles with far more depth and customization from single blocks like Minecraft and not with prebuild modules
      Ah and there was terraforming and base construction too
      All of that way more interesting engaging and funny than starfield
      And as you mentioned
      You could explore the entire planet (you were not in a fishbowl)
      You literally travelled across planets starting from planet a taking off and arriving in another star sistem planet b landing in a different location
      Yeah it was a little bit overwhelming
      Especially building from zero
      But they also had a fantastic blueprint sistem and with steam workshop you could find nearly everything you needed and the. You could later modify it at will
      A masterpiece way underrated my the general public

    • @RandomNoNamePT
      @RandomNoNamePT 11 месяцев назад +3

      Hell, even minecraft mods were able to do it back in 2013.

    • @gohunt001-5
      @gohunt001-5 11 месяцев назад

      Huh, i wonder what kinda system No Man's Sky uses, then?

    • @maxsaban1182
      @maxsaban1182 11 месяцев назад +1

      I love Empyrion!

  • @theincrediblefella7984
    @theincrediblefella7984 Год назад +214

    Did you know that in order to make a certain mod work in Skyrim I had to manually delete a jail cell in Riften? There was no connection between the two, but that's what fixed its issue. These games are utter dogshit even at a foundational level.

    • @merok4291
      @merok4291 Год назад +96

      Dude dont even get me started 400+ mods fallout 4 never had much problems with crashes.
      a month ago during a new game i met "this" problem where every time i used looksmenu the game would crash right after i exited it.
      I could not figure out what was the problem i was devastated and after some digging i found an old steam forum where a guy had similar problems and idk how he figured it out but it was becasue he had grenedes equiped.
      I tried it and it worked did not have a crash since using looks menu just fine again.
      And im still asking one how the fuck does looksmenu and equiped grenades interact to this extent. And two HOW THE FUCK HE FIGURED IT OUT?XD

    • @theincrediblefella7984
      @theincrediblefella7984 Год назад +13

      ​@@merok4291oh my God lmao

    • @TheNightman.
      @TheNightman. Год назад +36

      @@merok4291 He disabled mods till the game worked, re-enabled till it failed, disabled the last one. Once he narrowed that down, disabled all mods other than the problem and try it. If it works, it's that mod + something else. If it doesn't work it's that mod. Then it's a matter of diving down to, is it something equipped, is it a certain location, is it an item so on so forth.
      It's fucking time consuming, but it's a very thorough way of figuring out the issue

    • @ZettXXII
      @ZettXXII Год назад +16

      don't we all start modding skyrim by cleaning the DLC files, because beth never fixed their dirty edits? You don't have to reach, it's a miracle what skyrim has become, but starfield lacks the foundation.

    • @asdf11389
      @asdf11389 Год назад +2

      Makes for some fun stories though, that's hilarious

  • @whamer100
    @whamer100 11 месяцев назад +16

    to put it simply for the floating point math issues, floating point numbers (in this case, the IEEE-754 standard) are really good for smaller numbers, but once you start getting to numbers beyond the millions and into the billions range, there accuracy of very small deviations in numbers gets lower and lower. eventually the precision gets too low where the each increment in values is entire integers (i.e. you cant move unless your speed is so high you can move between entire blocks in a single tick, in the case of minecraft)

    • @SioxerNikita
      @SioxerNikita 11 месяцев назад

      It is also bad for smaller numbers, it all depends on what precision you need.

    • @whamer100
      @whamer100 11 месяцев назад

      @@SioxerNikita while i do agree its not perfect, its good for numbers between 0 and 1

    • @SioxerNikita
      @SioxerNikita 11 месяцев назад

      @@whamer100 Depends on what precision you need.

  • @SolCrown80
    @SolCrown80 Год назад +306

    I've heard lots of people saying "it's not the engine, it's not the engine!", but yeah... while this game has no shortage of shortcomings that have nothing to do with the engine, it turns out that it really is the case that the engine just doesn't support the type of game they said they were making, and there's nothing anyone can do to fix it. Bethesda just made a space exploration game where you simply can't explore space.

    • @bobjoe5937
      @bobjoe5937 Год назад +47

      Bethesda is terrible and I wish people would never buy another product of theirs.

    • @Varangian_af_Scaniae
      @Varangian_af_Scaniae Год назад +7

      Who says it's not the engine? That's all I see, ignorant people blaming "the engine", it's too old, to buggy etc. When it all comes down to BGS engine programmers and the management that has a "good enough" mantra when it comes to their engine.

    • @ericcarterofthehillpeople
      @ericcarterofthehillpeople Год назад +33

      Right. It's not the engine, actually. It's the game design. The game they designed is incompatible with their engine.

    • @InhabitantOfOddworld
      @InhabitantOfOddworld Год назад +37

      It's definitely the fucking engine. They built Morrowind on it. It's now over 20 years old, and it was an old and dated engine when Skyrim released. That was 12 years ago.
      In the year 2023 when other game devs are showing off SSD loading times and near instantaneous fast-travel across seamless and vast open worlds, it's a fucking embarrassment that Bethesda's flagship product after the Microsoft buy-out still relies on loading screen after loading screen as each little "cell" environment loads.
      And you can damn well guarantee that TESVI and Fallout 5 will be built on it too.

    • @SolCrown80
      @SolCrown80 Год назад +17

      @@ericcarterofthehillpeople I suppose it depends on which way you look at it: if you think you should make the game that your tools allow you to, then it's a game design problem. If you believe that you should make the tools for the game that you're envisioning, then it's an engine problem. And if you have no vision for the game and just want to put some tape and bubble gum on your old tools so you can kick out something just good enough, then you have a Bethesda problem.

  • @PixelJunks
    @PixelJunks Год назад +164

    I am genuinely worried for the ES6 after seeing Starfield.

    • @MrAnony07
      @MrAnony07 Год назад +5

      Well as long as ES6 is just one map it should be fine for the most part what Starfield is it's a Bethesda game through & through it's just missing the one part that made there game's great and made us forgive & forget all the mediocre stuff they've always been doing.

    • @kirkshanghai
      @kirkshanghai Год назад +36

      I've lost all interest. I would only regain interest until after it comes out and I hear good reviews from youtubers I trust (like Luke).

    • @mattgolding1642
      @mattgolding1642 Год назад +12

      @@MrAnony07I’ve lost all hope in any version of the creation engine. It’s been a fossil for a while now and they refuse to retire it. It’s clearly limiting them and it pretty much safe to say it’s gonna limit ES6. In a perfect world MS would step in and force them to stop using it. It’s now a crutch for them tho

    • @Jaml321
      @Jaml321 Год назад +5

      I have no hopes for ES6 at this point. Unless a miracle happens it will be the same old same old and i do not believe in miracles.

    • @Reaper-ml6ly
      @Reaper-ml6ly Год назад +14

      Bro the writing has been on the wall since at least Skyrim.

  • @Kasaaz
    @Kasaaz Год назад +349

    This game was so weird for me. I played it with Game Pass, so it wasn't even that I had a lot of expectations. I almost bounced off it at the start a number of times. But then I decided to just mainline the story and the game actually started pulling me back in again. I played a bit more thinking, "Okay, this might be really interesting if..." and almost before I could finish that thought, metaphorically, the game was over. "Oh..." It was a very strange experience overall.

    • @mattmmilli8287
      @mattmmilli8287 Год назад +48

      I don’t think you know what metaphorically means

    • @kenshinhimura9387
      @kenshinhimura9387 Год назад +36

      In my opinion the main story in quest are some of the worst parts of this game because they are so mind-numbingly stupid

    • @lukeshoo
      @lukeshoo Год назад +7

      ​@@mattmmilli8287 I'm thinking the same thing

    • @__-nt2wh
      @__-nt2wh Год назад +5

      Perchance.

    • @Kasaaz
      @Kasaaz Год назад +3

      You bring up a good point about Starfield. Not enough crushing turts.

  • @PhillipAmthor
    @PhillipAmthor 8 месяцев назад +1

    11:25 All numbers used in computers get less accurate the bigger (or smaller in negative area) they get, in every program, but this should only really become an issue if you multiply or divide them multiple times because floats are absurdly huge. 10km should be easily manageable. A float in java is in the range of 1.40129846432481707e-45 to 3.40282346638528860e+38 (positive or negative). Floats use 4 bytes to store data, long and double use 8 bytes

  • @magnanimousj
    @magnanimousj 11 месяцев назад +192

    To me, Starfield is like a big fancy mall that they opened before any stores moved in. Or a theme park that opened before any of the rides were ready. The bones are there, but there isn't any soul.

    • @mohitonon-alco4287
      @mohitonon-alco4287 11 месяцев назад +31

      The mall isn't even finished, it's built using outdated techniques and materials, and they're not even welcoming anyone because there are no mod tools released

    • @RealEllenDeGeneres
      @RealEllenDeGeneres 11 месяцев назад +11

      It's more like if they repurposed a neighborhood into a mall by adding store signs on the front of every house. Ignore the fact that the Old Navy dressing room is actually just a closet in someone's bedroom.

    • @mediumvillain
      @mediumvillain 11 месяцев назад

      ​@@mohitonon-alco4287Like... a mall. Something from decades ago that ppl dont really use anymore.

    • @catbert7
      @catbert7 11 месяцев назад +8

      As explained in this video, it's actually much worse than that, because it's the bones that are rotten. Starfield is a mall with a fractured foundation, on which nothing of value can be built.

    • @meodrac
      @meodrac 11 месяцев назад +1

      I'd argue that the bones are bad as well, like it's made to look good but sucks to walk through and explore

  • @Nightweaver1
    @Nightweaver1 Год назад +54

    So what I want to know is how Hello Games -- a studio with 1/10th the staff and a fraction of the budget of Bethesda Game Studios -- was able to create a game like No Man's Sky where you COULD run around the entire planet without everything breaking, and Beth couldn't.

    • @mkzhero
      @mkzhero Год назад +19

      Its not that Beth doucln't, its that they didn't even try. They didn't try for 20+ years lol. I'm still convinced there's either very few, or maybe not even a single programmer working for them on the actual game dev, only on keeping their sites, servers and payment services running.

    • @vayneglory655
      @vayneglory655 Год назад +4

      Well, hello games is funded by Sony. They aren't THAT tiny money wise. And also no man's sky has been out for what....God...seven years now? With constant updates?
      It's not really a fair comparison.

    • @chriswihulu
      @chriswihulu Год назад +7

      ​@@vayneglory655 and it was also bad on release, worse than Starfield was, if memory serves me right.

    • @vayneglory655
      @vayneglory655 Год назад +2

      @@chriswihulu it's still bad if you ask me! Lol
      But yes. Much worse. It was the last game I ever preordered.

    • @daniell5740
      @daniell5740 Год назад +2

      ​@@vayneglory655you're opinion is trash for that reason

  • @3dartxsi
    @3dartxsi Год назад +120

    The thing about the floating point issue is that this problem has been solved, not even recently, and not just by one game studio. Mojang solved it in Minecraft like a decade ago, No Man's Sky had it solved on release back in 2016. Im pretty sure Elite Dangerous has solved the problem, and these are just the examples that come to mind.
    I get that fixing this issue in the Creation Engine would be a challenge, but with 8 years and $200 million invested and with this being touted as Todd's "magnum opus" this is the kind of issue you solve before release.

    • @Luckyleol
      @Luckyleol Год назад +19

      There is a basic fix for it. Its Origin shifting, or a floating origin. Essentially when you go a certain distance you just move the whole world so that your camera or character is in position 0,0,0. Unreal natively supports this, and unity isnt that hard to setup a basic version of it.

    • @Musicthenandnow
      @Musicthenandnow Год назад

      but then you'd have to altar all the systems around it to accommodate the new change. Not impossible but I have a feeling they're unwilling to do that, either laziness or some other reason@@Luckyleol

    • @AllyMonsters
      @AllyMonsters Год назад +2

      @@Luckyleol The Futurama fix.

    • @EvanOfTheDarkness
      @EvanOfTheDarkness Год назад +27

      It's worse. Bethesda basically cannot develop their engine any more. They can add a few bits here and there, but they cannot rewrite, or even update systems, because they have no knowledge or even documentation on how these systems work. Even their employees are working from modding tutorials.
      It's not that they don't want to fix their engine. They *_can't._* Features, like race and body size are baked into their engine, and can't really be replaced, like with Unreal or Unity. It's an engine so specialized, that it can *_only_* create these kinds of RPS. Rewriting these baked in systems would be much harder then just switching to Unreal Engine, and they are not willing to do even that.

    • @DevNug
      @DevNug Год назад +8

      @@EvanOfTheDarkness I said on a different video that I’m convinced the current engineers have no idea how certain parts of the engine work since they were written years ago by different people with probably few docs. Makes the most sense honestly

  • @DeuxisWasTaken
    @DeuxisWasTaken 9 месяцев назад +4

    I know explaining floats was hardly the point there, but still: floats don't "compress" anything. They're simply a way to represent a fractional value as binary data. (In fact they're essentially scientific notation for computers.) They're the default tool for that job, CPUs and especially GPUs are well optimised at dealing with them, they're used for 3D model coordinates, etc etc.
    You *can* use more complicated ways to store decimal coordinates, but that's it - using a more complicated tool. Floats aren't "compressed" just because they're smaller than something more complicated.
    edit: I guess you can consider them a way to compress big whole numbers, just like scientific notation is a way to write big numbers without having to write all the zeroes. After all you don't need fractions if you just make a meter equal a billion units. But the point is that floats aren't an optimization used by game engines, they're *the* standard tool, reaching much deeper to the very hardware and its drivers and graphics APIs.

  • @EvilTim1911
    @EvilTim1911 Год назад +14

    To perhaps give a better understanding of the "floating point" errors - floating point number is a term in computer science for numbers with decimal places. But they are always limited to a certain number of digits in total. For the sake of argument, let's say that limit is 5 digits (in reality it's more). So you could have a number like 1.0000. So as long as you're in the low numbers, you have plenty of digits left for the decimal places, therefore more precision. However, as you move out miles away from the (0, 0, 0) XYZ coordinates on the map, you eventually reach numbers such as 1000.0. So in this case we only have the one decimal place left since the number still has to abide by the 5 digit limit, and one decimal place doesn't leave a lot of room for precision, which is why you get weird artifacts.
    The "Floating Origin" solution is basically shifting the (0, 0, 0) coordinates to always follow the player and basically keeping you as the center of the world at all times. It's almost like instead of the player moving around the world, you're moving the world around the player. The player becomes a fixed point in a sense.

  • @fridaycaliforniaa236
    @fridaycaliforniaa236 Год назад +230

    Meanwhile, KSP managed to solve the floating point problem more than 10 years ago, with almost no problem and with only a very limited dev team... That says a lot about the dev team of Starrim/Skyfield.

    • @kolyashinkarev7366
      @kolyashinkarev7366 Год назад +16

      Actually if you use some mods the floating point error can sometimes surface when calculating orbits after the warp (basically your orbit changes slightly when you warp out). Had this problem and solved it by upgrading the game version

    • @kolyashinkarev7366
      @kolyashinkarev7366 Год назад +1

      Actually if you use some mods the floating point error can sometimes surface when calculating orbits after the warp (basically your orbit changes slightly when you warp out). Had this problem and solved it by upgrading the game version

    • @kolyashinkarev7366
      @kolyashinkarev7366 Год назад

      @karlwithak. Ksp is on steam dude the hell is your point? Steam also has extremely handy community mods tool and this handy little option called return the product if you don't like it

    • @vilian9185
      @vilian9185 Год назад +60

      @karlwithak.wtf are you talking about lmao

    • @Umbra_TuSlayer
      @Umbra_TuSlayer Год назад +35

      @karlwithak. ​ Have you not heard of "Early Access?" "Hades" is a perfect example of how wrong you are. And sight unseen??? STEAM has a whole review section to stop just that...

  • @Conquered
    @Conquered 11 месяцев назад +290

    I've been playing BGS games for 15 years and was so excited for Starfield. Almost 4 months after it released and I literally forgot it existed. Before it came out, I was wanting to start a YT channel of my own and create guide-type videos for finding cool pieces of armor or weapons scattered around the map or interesting questlines etc.. Kind of live my dream of when I was 11 watching Skyrim videos from ESO. Just videos for fun. If you couldn't already tell, this type of content isn't really viable for Starfield due to what the game is, and this in itself is my biggest letdown with the game. Where's the exploration? Finding the gear? I just reloaded a save a couple of times and rolled a good piece of armor... I use the menu to travel to a system then I use the menu again to land on a planet all so I can run in a straight like for 1,000 meters and discover... nothing. A literal hole in the ground I can scan. I had only played the game for a few hours when I started to notice the patterns for the randomly generated settlements (or whatever they are). Copy pasted "dungeons." What's the lore there? Spacers raiding an abandoned outpost again? Cool... I guess. I just can't believe what happened here it's honestly heartbreaking to play this game.

    • @Soniti1324
      @Soniti1324 11 месяцев назад +1

      4 months after it came out you forgot about it.... So.... literally right now?

    • @titanjakob1056
      @titanjakob1056 11 месяцев назад +4

      So glad I playe Ac6 then this disaster lol

    • @DWH84
      @DWH84 11 месяцев назад +25

      I've been playing BGS games for 15 years and that's why I knew to stay away from Starfield. You could jump or fly across the entire Morrowind map - sure it would pause for loading, but it worked back then. ES6 might just be a series of loading screens the way things are going.

    • @zombiesquirel
      @zombiesquirel 11 месяцев назад +26

      ngl the amount of people that were even excited for this game is depressing. People really thought it wasn't going to be total smoke and mirror bullshit? I have to admit, it was literally worse than I thought it was gonna be.
      I expected Fallout 4 perks but more fleshed out, but they were watered down. And the craziest thing, sometimes perks just flat out didn't work after unlocking them.

    • @Soniti1324
      @Soniti1324 11 месяцев назад +5

      That sound you're hearing is me, crying over the constellation edition I preordered to try and re-sell on Ebay, and the Constellation jacket that Bethesda Merch put out (and is apparently going to be delivered tomorrow.)
      /facepalm
      @@zombiesquirel

  • @hereticstanlyhalo6916
    @hereticstanlyhalo6916 11 месяцев назад +9

    So for those who want to know more why floats work this way, it basically works like this. The generic float value has 32 bits. The float also dictates where the period is placed (for decimal numbers). Now I can't remember exactly how many values, but for sake of simplicity, if the max was like 15 numbers, that period needs to go somewhere, so u can have 9 followed by 14 numbers, or 9, decimal, 14 numbers. So as the whole digit place gets bigger, the amount of what can be in the decimal place shrinks, resulting in jittering vertices. Now I'm pretty sure it's not 15, but it's for sake of simplicity.
    We can however use doubles, which are 64 bit floats, but that's twice the memory usage, and for gpus to use it, you actually have to use 2 32 bit floats and do some math between the two... it's weird...
    A solution is to do rebasing, which is to reset the 0, 0, 0 position of the world with your character / chunk. So if you move from point 0, 0, 0 to 100, 100, 100, the game could do a rebase operation and subtract 100 from all xyz's... however this is pretty complicated in an already established engine for inhouse engines, and depending on the amount of objects, it can be expensive on some machines (although not as much as other game systems, still a thing to think about).

    • @higgs7473
      @higgs7473 11 месяцев назад +2

      Good explanation. For anyone wondering why they get less acccurate but aren't completely random, it's because the value after the decimal is represented by adding 1/2^n on each 1 in the binary, so let's say the floating point number uses up all the numbers it could except 2 before the decimal, then it could only represent 1/2, 1/4, and 1/2+1/4, so basically a max "positional change" of .25 units instead of tenths of thousands of units

    • @Lttlemoi
      @Lttlemoi 11 месяцев назад +1

      For those wishing even more information, the standard describing this numbering system is called IEEE 754

  • @ArtilleryAffictionado1648
    @ArtilleryAffictionado1648 Год назад +286

    Developing an ENTIRE GAME where the technology to make it function is not even there is crazy!! thanks for the good journalism luke. youre the best!!

    • @PicturesqueGames
      @PicturesqueGames 11 месяцев назад +19

      Uh. It does. No man's sky. Or, for a bit more junkier but still seamless world - elite dangerous.

    • @Supersonicboom7
      @Supersonicboom7 11 месяцев назад +38

      He was referring to it not being "there" in Bethesda's Creation Engine@@PicturesqueGames

    • @danilooliveira6580
      @danilooliveira6580 11 месяцев назад +13

      not surprised at all, they have been trying to make everything with the same engine since 97, creation engine is just gamebryo with some patchwork to make it work on modern machines. the fact that CE2 don't even have a way to mitigate Floating-point errors just proves that.

    • @BrotherCarver
      @BrotherCarver 11 месяцев назад +12

      This is what happens when you "overhaul" an engine from the 2010's, the Creation Engine just wasn't made to have all the tools available for what gamers want now, or what Todd Howard will promise us. There are other engines that would have been better game for the scope Starfield was intended to have, but no, Bethesda has to use their in-house software.

    • @atomic_bomba
      @atomic_bomba 11 месяцев назад +3

      @@PicturesqueGames Comparing these to Starfield is ridiculous.

  • @PureAblution
    @PureAblution 11 месяцев назад +50

    As someone who has enjoyed 1000s of hours of fallout and elder scrolls mods…I would love to hear from some of the folks who make that possible. The creativity and passion the modding community consistently delivers is the only reason most of us still play the same Bethesda titles year after year. They’re truly doing the lords work out there.

    • @WILLINGLYWILD
      @WILLINGLYWILD 11 месяцев назад +1

      Facts, BGS modders are something else, if I could pay for the ones I used on console I would

    • @jazzochannel
      @jazzochannel 11 месяцев назад +1

      write a letter to bethesda and ask them to fork a fix-up version of their game engine and to set aside 5 years to that effort.

    • @joanofsharc
      @joanofsharc 11 месяцев назад +2

      Let us also recall, that Bethesda actually hired some of these modders - to work on Starfield.
      It's a true shame to see their talents and passions being stifled. Oldest trick in the book - hire the "competition" that's more creative than you so that your work (starfield) doesn't look soo bad. Even if it isn't intentional, it's damn unfortunate.

    • @EddieSpaghetti69
      @EddieSpaghetti69 10 месяцев назад

      I'm always amazed with what people can do. I was excited to be able to shoot potatos out of a grenade launcher; that's the top of my game. Then I see people making Skyrim into Dark Souls; making New Vegas into RDR2, or still seeing new mods for Oblivion or Morrowind.
      The things that people can accomplish are astounding, as we all use the same tools. It's like grabbing wood and making a handle, while another guy uses the same machine and wood to make Noahs Ark.

  • @puregibberish
    @puregibberish Год назад +87

    I've been saying forever that major game developers and publishers have been playing with fire, seeing just how close they can come to failure and excuse it with "risk taking" and trying to say their mediocrity is just disguised as visionary design or "giving the players what they want".
    There's been a race to the bottom with MAJOR names sacrificing it ALL in the name of profits - brand, franchises/IP and community goodwill be damned.
    Bethesda is just leading the way here, taking every wrong turn.
    Now comes the next phase - wholesale brand toxicity - where your past failures become irredeemable, trust being all gone, new products fail simply because of the companies attached to them.

    • @BruceWade-n2d
      @BruceWade-n2d Год назад +16

      they know they're in the endgame. bobby kotick put his resignation in a few days ago with like a week notice. the you know who's are jumping ship because...well you'll see soon enough.

    • @mkzhero
      @mkzhero Год назад +12

      Bethesda wasn't. They where incompetent artists and writers larping as game devs who bought a game engine and only made writing and models, while not writing a single line of code in years, if not two decades! The only reason that things are this way is that they also have more ambition than ability, and insist on not hiring any coders to work on the engine and write other scripts, but keep insisting on growing their ambitions without changing a single thing in the foundation to support that shaky tower. The problem is, most people are extremely stupid and increasingly more easily distracted and entertained so they still keep afloat somehow.

    • @Ralathar44
      @Ralathar44 Год назад

      You know there is no such things as profits without people buying the games right? If people keep buying them and playing them, and they are with Starfield, then its still doing fine. In all honestly the design of Starfield is a significant departure in many ways from the old tried and true copy paste Bethesda formula. The game actually IS taking significant risks. And its being rewarded for it. Good sales and player retention after 3 months is even with the % retained by Elden Ring. Internet convos are dumpster fires as always, but metrics wise its doing quite well.

  • @smokeymoe842
    @smokeymoe842 10 месяцев назад +10

    An old timer once told me "never try to polish a turd"

    • @diswazzi1683
      @diswazzi1683 7 месяцев назад

      Cyberpunk2077 has left the chat

  • @OrginalRaxor
    @OrginalRaxor Год назад +89

    When i first heard Starfield would have 1000 planets, my thought was "Bethesda is doing this, so that the Modders can fill the planets and make them awesome"
    Seems like i was very very wrong lol

    • @davevd9944
      @davevd9944 Год назад +7

      Exactly they should've made one system with a few planets and moons then it could've been something. Bigger isn't better more often than not it makes the game far worse. Extreme size often make it barren except if you got a talented studio that actually love their job like Larian.

    • @OrginalRaxor
      @OrginalRaxor Год назад

      @@davevd9944 Imagine a system where you could really travel freely, around the entire planet... And a Modder could "Take" a planet, fill it with cities, quests, NPCs and whatnot.
      Often in games you have to use the barren are on the outskirts of the map, or add more map,, or even change part of the maps in use, to make new content...
      Here there was a HUGE opportunity to make it so that 1 Modder, or even groups of modders could make AWESOME planets...Hole new cities, factions, quests, and everything and just tell other modders "dont take planet xxyy-11-32.." we already took this and made an awesome new addition...
      Biggest loss of oportunity bethesda ever made, Modders could have made that awesome,, not they are just boring, barren and unusable for modders.

    • @elixwhitetail
      @elixwhitetail Год назад +2

      Modders CAN, but WILL they? That's the question Bethesda didn't seem to ask themselves.

    • @OrginalRaxor
      @OrginalRaxor Год назад +1

      @@elixwhitetail apparantly the old engine, and the way they buildt it, made it very hard for the modders, maybe even so hard its not really worth it at all, and they would be better of making their own game.....

  • @bellissimo4520
    @bellissimo4520 Год назад +157

    I always assumed it would be near impossible to open up the "fishbowls". I remember Skyrim, where opening up the cities (so that there would be no loading screen when entering one) required specific patches for each and every city. And they often added instability to the game, conflicted with other mods, required to be in a specific load order etc. But those were just a given, fixed small handful of locations - in Starfield, the entire game is like this, every single one of the thousand planets.
    Yeah, the Creation engine REALLY needs to go away!

    • @theirishviking9278
      @theirishviking9278 Год назад +3

      the creation engine is fine
      it just needs a new version not an updated oblivion version of it
      at this point its more alterations than it is the original engine

    • @orbit1894
      @orbit1894 Год назад +28

      @@theirishviking9278 new version IS updated version. Its currently what we have. They'll need to overhaul everything from ground up, then again at that point it will be Creation Engine by name. The problem we have is the new version of the updated CE.

    • @j.trades9691
      @j.trades9691 Год назад +12

      @@theirishviking9278Creation Engine traces all the way back to Morrowind, not just Oblivion. And, to be fair to Bethesda, updating an engine repeatedly rather than making a new one from scratch is pretty much the industry standard for how things are done. Doom Eternal traces all the way back to the original Quake Engine, for example.

    • @theirishviking9278
      @theirishviking9278 Год назад +10

      @@j.trades9691 true but bethesda is obviously starting to make games that the engine just isn't made for, its not the addons and modifications, its the core of the engine that's the problem at this point

    • @Sizifus
      @Sizifus Год назад +8

      It's not the engine's fault, it's the game development philosophy of Bethesda that needs serious fixing

  • @copperbadge1
    @copperbadge1 Год назад +41

    That's Todd's entire business model going up in flames right there.

    • @RocketRenton
      @RocketRenton Год назад +6

      If they don't hit the targets by 2027 for Game Pass as revealed in the FTC case for ABK deal, Xbox are pulling the plug on the whole project and all these companies will be left in limbo a bit like Bungie is now with Sony.
      They did it to Nokia and will do it again, they have enough money to take the hit as they make most of their money in Cloud computing and hit 1 trillion in value previously so 50 billion on ABK is nothing, they will simply write it all off as well as BGS.
      That's why they are going 3rd party and most of their own IP's are done for now e.g Halo and most games are Game Pass quality at best nowadays, paying the money they want for a half baked product to be patched later which has been the theme now since around 2008 is getting to become almost laughable and people are now voting with their wallets, F2P is also the other side of the coin with live service.
      Retro is thriving, modern gaming is dying, it's on it's knees now and will only get worse if they don't turn the corner soon, and I see more scams like the recent The Day Before becoming more often.
      I actually see some kind of crash like we had in 1983 possibly in 2024, more layoffs and consolidation is already on the cards.

    • @CrazedDanMan
      @CrazedDanMan Год назад +1

      They're doing just fine without mods haha

    • @marcogenovesi8570
      @marcogenovesi8570 Год назад

      @@CrazedDanMan yeah I'm sure they are, with the "mostly negative" review score on Steam

    • @RicoOCHO85
      @RicoOCHO85 Год назад

      They already made the cash so review.dont matter

    • @marcogenovesi8570
      @marcogenovesi8570 Год назад

      @@RicoOCHO85 did they though

  • @LievenSerge
    @LievenSerge 11 месяцев назад +20

    StarCitizen had to change from 32bit coordinates in the default CryEngine to 64bit in order to create the huge system of Stanton. Even in Arena Commander you were able to tell when you went to towards the edges of the map. If Todd would have paid attention in 2014 he could have seen this coming.

    • @Spike.SpiegeI
      @Spike.SpiegeI 11 месяцев назад +4

      I also thought about star citizen as I watched this!! This just shows why it's taking them so long to release their game. It's difficult to build entire planets, an entire universe with no loading screens and persistent entities everywhere.

  • @chowder5202
    @chowder5202 Год назад +46

    A float is a data type that stores numbers w decimals. This data type is limited at 32 bits, meaning it can only store data up to like 7 decimal digits. The larger the result of the calculation (the farther from spawn), the less accurate the data is because it can't store the data after the 7 decimals digits. Alternatively the double data type can be used to handle more decimal digits, but this data type uses 64 bits, meaning it consumes more memory/ takes longer to compute.

    • @hogepief
      @hogepief Год назад +30

      The reason it gets so imprecise is that part of a float is stored as the exponent. As an example in our decimal world, a float data type consisting of 6 decimal digits could be storing 4 digits for the number, and 2 to store the power of 10, i.e. mmmm x 10^xx, so 2221x10^3 and 2222x10^3 (respectively 2221000 and 2222000) are only 1000 apart (=10^3) and 2221x10^6 and 2222x10^6 are 1 million apart. So for numbers in the billions, like in the example, you have to take steps of 1 million, and for numbers in the millions you can take steps of a thousand.

    • @Ceejbot
      @Ceejbot Год назад +7

      @@hogepief These comments need to be uprated higher. This is the useful explanation of the problem, and an indication of why it won't be fixed overnight.

    • @tyesamson
      @tyesamson Год назад +10

      Nice to find the comment thread where people actually know what floating point maths is! I spat my coffee out when Luke defined floating point as "when the spawn point floats with the character" 😅

    • @Notnownev
      @Notnownev Год назад

      Is this the same reason why they cannot have moving vehicles in their engine?

    • @RyoMassaki
      @RyoMassaki Год назад +4

      @@Notnownev No, that's just another example of general incompetence of Bethesda.

  • @Someguy6571
    @Someguy6571 Год назад +22

    Also the cities are more like settlements. They are so tiny compared to other games where cities actually feel like cities. In Starfield they are just so small.

    • @ryman1933
      @ryman1933 Год назад +7

      Bethesda has always been horrible at city design. Pick any city from a Bethesda game and its 100 times smaller than it should be. Think of solitude in skyrim, supposed to be this major city with thousands of people, but only like 15 people live in the whole city. Diamond city from fallout 4, supposed to a large city with hundreds of people and yet is mostly empty and barren. Bethesda writes the lore or these cities as if they are large wonder cities but then they make them basically the size of a village.

    • @The.BrightLord
      @The.BrightLord Год назад +6

      Neon... Just a corridor sized settlement

    • @BloodyKnives66
      @BloodyKnives66 Год назад +3

      This was a huge problem when I played on game pass... Tiny tiny little "cities" and all of them surrounded by nothing, like it was just dropped in the middle of a field 😂

  • @YezaOutcast
    @YezaOutcast 11 месяцев назад +63

    in its infancy star citizen had the same issue with positioning on the outer areas of space maps, because the floats where getting more and more unprecice when going away from the map center, which is a big problem for space sims that need big maps. so, they switched to 64 bit maps with floating point origin, that could be made MUCH bigger without loosing precision.

    • @wavion2
      @wavion2 11 месяцев назад +17

      And to be clear, this wasn't just flipping a switch. Like "Recompile 64bit GO!" This required a massive rewrite of the entire engine and caused a HUGE delay.

    • @xevious21
      @xevious21 11 месяцев назад

      Not to mention, Star Citizen had the funding to do that.

    • @blindmown
      @blindmown 11 месяцев назад +14

      ​@@xevious21 Bethesda spent over $200m on Starfield. The reason Star Citizen is so hard and expensive is because it's online.
      The company behind Star Citizen have built a whole single player game as a side project to the online experience while working on tech for the online game.
      Starfield has $200m+ and ended up like this.. it's just so sad and smells like misappropriation of funds to me.

    • @xevious21
      @xevious21 11 месяцев назад +8

      @@blindmown Good point, damn how did that game get made with a budget of 200 million, but Horizon Forbidden West had a budget of only 212 million? Like where did the money go? Cause Starfield looks and plays like a Fallout 4 conversion mod, with worse conversations and dialog somehow.

    • @ThickpropheT
      @ThickpropheT 11 месяцев назад +1

      interesting to know. i wondered how successful just allocating more space would be. 64 bit is pretty goddamn massive tho. doubt you'd ever run out of precision there. never stopped to check how many bits are in a standard float. turns out it's 32. thanks bud, i'm learnding!

  • @peterd.meredith3580
    @peterd.meredith3580 6 месяцев назад +2

    It's been obvious for a while now that the Creation Engine is what's holding back Starfield. But of course Bethesda are compelled to use it, even if it's FUBAR.

  • @Sypher474
    @Sypher474 Год назад +22

    64 bit floating points was one of the first things StarCitizen had to implement to allow planetary and solar system scale gameplay. This was many years ago at this stage. BGS has no excuse for not implementing this change other than laziness.

    • @ummerfarooq5383
      @ummerfarooq5383 Год назад

      64bit fp isn't found in many gpus.
      On top of that, starfield is much more detailed than star citizen

    • @Sypher474
      @Sypher474 Год назад +17

      @@ummerfarooq5383 lol what? This has nothing to do with the GPU. Also in what universe is Starfield more 'detailed' than StarCitizen? Have you flown around Lorville, or New Babbage? There is infinitely more detail there already.

    • @GhostCodeRG
      @GhostCodeRG Год назад +13

      ​@@ummerfarooq5383 im not the biggest fan of SC but to say starfield is more detailed...is just stupid and inaccurate

    • @Tsudico
      @Tsudico Год назад

      @@ummerfarooq5383 They convert from 64 bit world space to a 32 bit view space when rendering frames.

    • @Rippedyanu1
      @Rippedyanu1 Год назад +8

      @@ummerfarooq5383 dude just a single ship in star citizen has more detail and care put into it than a planet in starfield. To say star citizen is less detailed than starfield is laughable

  • @AealoRes
    @AealoRes Год назад +84

    As a modder myself with some fixed errors landscapes mods in skyrim i said from the beginning, the real problem with this game is the focus in quantity(imagine one perfect made solar system instead of 1000 generic planets) the best solution to fix that now is to keep the 8x8km2 of the tile and close access to spaceship landing mechanic in every location, keep one map per planet with all biomes in the 8x8km2 tile make interesting POIs and make one fixed static landing spot in every map so u need to explore on foot or in some kind of vehicle...

    • @menalgharbwalsharq648
      @menalgharbwalsharq648 Год назад +8

      That was my point from early announcement.
      I don't know why they aimed for that scale of a game while they could make one solar system, or even à few but with one or two explorable planets.
      They missed the point. The people who worked on starfield don't understand what made their other game great. Both elder scrolls and fallout games have issue but they are nothing like big empty spaces without soul

    • @fast1nakus
      @fast1nakus Год назад +1

      That's a long way to say "make a better game, Tod"

    • @AealoRes
      @AealoRes Год назад +6

      @@fast1nakus And that is true the last thing Todd make unique was Morrowind we can see this downfall of bethesda many years i love Fallouts and Scrolls but lets be honest great games but generic as hell even the story lines was mediocre we all know how superior and unique was when Obsidian try the engine with Vegas that was fundamental a superior game from all the others past morrowind era...!!!

    • @kingmanic
      @kingmanic Год назад +3

      @@menalgharbwalsharq648 I'm sure some of the devs or maybe most of the devs knew, but leadership didn't believe it. Leadership is trying to make the skyrim/oblivion experience with less resources into making points of interest but to make procgen good you need to put more resources into making points of interest to explore than a fixed space. The leadership seems to refuse to understand that. Todd Howard seems to like the concept of procgen to make expansive places. Daggerfall attempted that, instead of hand crafting a world they just did a onetime procgen of a massive world but it was dull and poorly designed. Starfield seems to be him chasing that idea again.

    • @AnotherOne-ny5ls
      @AnotherOne-ny5ls Год назад +2

      Bethesda hates the idea of 1 solar system, it's one of the reasons they refuse to take criticism seriously.

  • @WrangleMcDangle
    @WrangleMcDangle 11 месяцев назад +59

    This game is like someone's memory of a game, and that memory is fading

    • @greenhowie
      @greenhowie 11 месяцев назад +4

      Nah it's not as good as Dark Souls 2

    • @GabrielOnuris
      @GabrielOnuris 11 месяцев назад +10

      That's it. Bethesda has dementia.

    • @WrangleMcDangle
      @WrangleMcDangle 11 месяцев назад +4

      @@GabrielOnuris Todd Howard wants us to all come to Carcosa

    • @MegaChickenPunch
      @MegaChickenPunch 11 месяцев назад +2

      TD reference

    • @WrangleMcDangle
      @WrangleMcDangle 11 месяцев назад +1

      @@MegaChickenPunch we are all in carcosa with todd howard now

  • @trevorsmith470
    @trevorsmith470 9 месяцев назад +2

    Another way to think of floats is like scientific notation. Writing numbers in the hundreds or thousands is not an issue. Once you want to start writing quadrillions, it becomes less convenient; just writing 7.5 * 10^15 is a lot more compact, with the tradeoff being that you can no longer represent values in increments of hundreds anymore. Floats are sort of like this, in that instead of having one value for each number, it can move the decimal point, so to speak (which is where "floating point" comes from.)
    The naive solution is to just use larger numbers that take up more data; this might seem like a good choice if your computer has a boatload of memory, but unfortunately you then run into the fact that modern computer processors are 64-bit; once a number has more than 2^64 possible values (i.e. what can be expressed in 64 1's or 0's,) it can no longer process it in one step, which will destroy performance.
    The trouble here isn't that computers can't process enough numbers or process them fast enough, because other games have solved this problem. The issue is that certain aspects of the game engine prevent the game from efficiently using what it can already do.
    If you're saying "but actually processors have been able to process 128 bit numbers since sandy bridge," yes, I'm aware AVX instructions exist, but these deal with integers rather than floating point numbers, and requiring later revisions will just shut out anyone who doesn't have a certain processor from playing. Not to mention the fact that both the PS5 and XBox series X/S are running on AMD zen 2 (ryzen 3000/4000 architecture,) which does not have AVX-512 anyway.

  • @ryanartward
    @ryanartward Год назад +67

    With what they would need to do for Starfield, it would become a totally different game. Hell, maybe they should make their own space-game.

    • @tlothompson6935
      @tlothompson6935 Год назад +9

      That is the main reason why these modders don't want to bother fixing it. The work it will take is not worth it. Modding a game should just be updating visual assets, updating UI, adding skins, or any other small changes. Changing the entire foundation to make it a great game... You mine as well make your own game.

    • @Superdosis
      @Superdosis 11 месяцев назад

      They should just stop making games tbh. Fallout 4 (not to mention 76) was absolute garbage already and should have been a wake-up call for many

    • @PerkinsVR
      @PerkinsVR 11 месяцев назад +3

      @@Superdosis fallout 4 wasn't great, but at least on a technical level it felt like a step forward for bethesda developments. this feels like a step backward onto a footstool sticking out of some mud.

    • @Superdosis
      @Superdosis 11 месяцев назад

      While that is TECHNICALLY (lmafo, we're talking about a BETHESDA game...) true it's also rendered moot by Bethesda's constant and numerous failures in other areas of their game: no player choice whatsoever, bare-bones RPG elements, TERRIBLE writing and overall forgettable experiences on top of dishonest marketing@@PerkinsVR

  • @drksideofthewal
    @drksideofthewal Год назад +219

    If you’ve followed Star Citizen for a long time, you already know the problem: Creation Engine does not have 64 bit double precision floating point. This took several years for CIG to solve, and they basically needed to make a new engine.

    • @brody7714
      @brody7714 Год назад +21

      Not fair to compare anything to that dumpster fire of a game - best to ignore Star Citizen entirely.

    • @Felice_Enellen
      @Felice_Enellen Год назад +60

      BS. I was an industry engine programmer. We did open world on PS2-era hardware, not even using floats. We used 8-, 16-, and 32-bit fixed point to store data, and we tried to avoid ever needing 32-bit data because it would be so much bigger. You only need double precision if you have absolutely no idea what you're doing and your only solution is to change your type across the board from float to double, which is lazy and ignorant. The only floats you ever need are the ones you do the final math on with the GPU, and by that time, it's all relative to the camera or, at worst, the origin of the tile you're in.

    • @project.jericho
      @project.jericho Год назад +5

      No one is talking about Star Citizen, the conversation is about STARFIELD. Creation Engine is not StarEngine.

    • @araaraavery
      @araaraavery Год назад +1

      ignorant L take@@brody7714

    • @MapleSwish
      @MapleSwish Год назад +24

      @@brody7714did u just call an Alpha a dumpster fire of a game?😂 Atleast they adding to it and listening to feedback bozo

  • @Elagabalus711
    @Elagabalus711 Год назад +114

    Good job citing sources and really demonstrating the deeper problem with how the game operates. It's so easy to toss around "fixes" for a game and not actually grasp what developers would have to do to fix those things. Reorienting an entire game around a different reference point in the code sounds just...insane. I am not surprise the game is the way it is if it has this flaw at the center of its programming and engine.

  • @ce6ej
    @ce6ej 11 месяцев назад +2

    It angers me that most of us have just accepted that it’s okay to just let Modders fix everything for Bethesda. It would be one thing if Bethesda was a small company with limited funds and time to put out their games, but none of that is the case. I heard that Obsidian has been trying to work with Bethesda on a Skyrim sequel/spin-off since the release of Skyrim, but Bethesda has consistently refused without any explanation. Maybe Bethesda SHOULD talk to some of the old Obsidian Devs and accept their help for TES VI.
    There is ZERO excuse for such a big studio to put out such half-baked, boring games these days..

  • @jerichothegrey
    @jerichothegrey Год назад +169

    There's TWO things I thought of that could solve almost every one of Starfields issues.
    Lower the planet count: You don't need 1000 planets to make a good space game. Players can still feel a sense of awe and vastness of space with 5 or 6 planets.
    Hand-crafted Open Worlds: Now with the lowered planet count, Bethesda can really focus in on making a handcrafted Skyrim-sized map on each planet, full of their own conflicts, cities, ruins, settlements. Each one being drastically different from the other. A snow planet, a desert planet, a rainforest, etc.
    We all agree that Bethesda is great at making open worlds. Well, Starfield removes the open world and replaces it with markers on a map. I think that's why so many people were disappointed.

    • @Chris-cf1hs
      @Chris-cf1hs Год назад +13

      Like outer worlds

    • @lordofchaosinc.261
      @lordofchaosinc.261 Год назад +6

      Or just do it like Xenoblade X, one huge handcrafted open world with several biomes. Start crashed ship scenario then gather the five parts of the artefact of doom. Lots of space to embed those interior cells in they love so much. Throw in giant mecha combat for good measure.

    • @pfeilspitze
      @pfeilspitze Год назад +9

      TBH, "space" scale is always just a worse version of island-hopping. Going for space just opts you into a whole bunch of expectations that will never be practical for manual curation. Not to mention that even just making maps and navigation and physics is way harder in 3D than in the normal "pretend the earth is flat" setup.
      Going between islands is, in gameplay, functionally the same as going between planets. Except that it works better in every way.

    • @dakat5131
      @dakat5131 Год назад +3

      After all, Skyrim is one province and there's plenty of places to go. The story for the game gives your character a reason to be there and not trying to explore the whole world, let alone multiple planets. They can have a campaign with exploration and planet hopping while still reigning players into areas that could plausibly have meaningful content.

    • @J----L
      @J----L Год назад +7

      Have you *seen* the people making these games? I mean, in the dev trailer? What makes you think they could come up with something interesting? They're deeply corporate pod people. If they could observe people -- a requirement for writing good stories -- they would also observe themselves and die of cringe. You're asking for the impossible, just let it go. Move on.

  • @chawzwan
    @chawzwan Год назад +69

    With the current state of gaming in the industry in general, there is a very very high chance that they will fuck up ES 6. Besides some "anomalies" (games that were actually good for the majority of critical mindful consumers) in the past years, the big publishers farted out mostly garbage. What they have done good and nearly perfected is the implementation of micro transactions and ways to milk every cent out of its consumers. hats up for this.

    • @PavloskyUfanov-Trooper
      @PavloskyUfanov-Trooper Год назад +15

      That is because AAA studios are not in the business of creating fun games, they are in the business of producing corporate business plans for the next 5-10 years, this is; game creation is secondary to the business and not the core activity. The objective is not earn money by selling a product people want, but to create as much recurring revenue stream as possible.

    • @deathsheadknight2137
      @deathsheadknight2137 Год назад +5

      @@PavloskyUfanov-Trooper Your first line perfectly summarizes FF7R. I went in *wanting* to like it and it *killed* every last bit of interest I have in the franchise

    • @flow185
      @flow185 Год назад

      Plezse play something else than CoD and FIFA

    • @Lock2002ful
      @Lock2002ful Год назад +1

      @@deathsheadknight2137
      Try the mobile version. It’s atrocious what they did to ff7..

  • @JedDevs
    @JedDevs Год назад +121

    Professional Game Programmer here, hit the nail on the head. The moment Bethesda announced it would be built on Creation Engine again, every dev everywhere knew these issues would irreparably exist. You can't build a game like Starfield on an engine built like any normal engine where Vector 0,0,0 is the centre of the world and the player moves around this point rather than being this point.
    The EulerAngle/CoordinateFrame/Vector that make up our understanding of the 3D space could in a game as vast as space become so large and unreliable that everything we've built on top collapses. Starfield (if using existing base principles) would have to flip the expectation, a static player and a "dynamic" (moving) world to simulate an endless expanse.

    • @codythompson7756
      @codythompson7756 Год назад +12

      Being a professional game dev you should know that you can offset the world once the player passes a threshold. Bringing everything back to the origin. No engine work is required.
      Outer Wilds is a great example of this.

    • @Felice_Enellen
      @Felice_Enellen Год назад +7

      @@codythompson7756 Indeed, I'm an engine-oriented game dev and this is pretty much what we've always done, internal to the engine and build tools. As long as the creative people authored tiles with local origins in whatever 3D sculpt app we happened to be using, you could render the world with local accuracy at or near the camera without any game-level code intervention. It's crazy that the Creation Engine doesn't do this, especially since it's been an open-world engine from day one as DAoC's Gamebryo engine. It's like they actually disabled the feature or something.

    • @razzledazzle84921
      @razzledazzle84921 Год назад

      I don’t understand how they had the “travelling between cells” problem solved in e.g., Skyrim, but now it’s this unsolvable problem in a more recent game?

    • @keungwan5901
      @keungwan5901 Год назад

      These floating point imprecision problems at a distance,
      sound like polar co-ordinates, is that right?

    • @keungwan5901
      @keungwan5901 Год назад +3

      @@razzledazzle84921 I don't think was 'solved' per se.
      As in, they solved it by making you slow, even on Shadowmare (?),
      so it didn't trouble the game engine underneath. It wouldn't glitch.
      So, in the more 'recent' game,
      you have high def polys and textures, for chars, buildings, boxes, canisters, dinner trays etc.
      This takes a shit load more loading, so you are effectively back to square one - slow

  • @Wourghk
    @Wourghk 9 месяцев назад +1

    Origin rebasing has been a standard feature in most engines for at least 15 years precisely because the sizes of worlds became too large to manage with even double precision floats. There's no excuse other than Bethesda's mismanagement and complacency for Starfield's engine not having it.

  • @leightonpetty4817
    @leightonpetty4817 Год назад +74

    And you know the funniest thing about this? Modders have _repeatedly_ proven that "this is impossible" is never true. You say "it would require remaking it from the ground up", and there are modders who do all that and more in pursuit of their insane vision.
    Unfortunately, that requires passion. And for passionate modders, you need a game to inspire passion.

    • @ziephel-6780
      @ziephel-6780 Год назад +4

      Because Starfield has the most boring story-setting that we've ever seen in any game?

    • @invalidusername4011
      @invalidusername4011 Год назад +6

      Starfield has nothing for itself in the first place, so why even bother.
      If I were a coder inclined to mod, I wouldn't waste my time on this.

    • @tlothompson6935
      @tlothompson6935 Год назад +2

      That's a long way to say the work needs to be worth the outcome...

    • @sam23696
      @sam23696 Год назад +4

      You're right that there are modders out there who will put that work in. But also don't use that to understate what they would need to fix. The task would take modders _years_ to pull off, they would be on the same time scale as the people making Skyblivion or Skywind. There's no way around the fact that they would have to do the work of a 1500 person development team by themselves.
      This video made the point better. They would need to update the engine to Floating Origin, which means at the minimum they would have to rebuild every city, town and location manually, rock by rock, decal by decal.

    • @harrygreenfeld4964
      @harrygreenfeld4964 Год назад +2

      Skyrim, Fallout etc aren't procedurally generated. That's where Starfield would cause most modders to give up. The cities etc, no problem. But yeah, mods would need to effectively rebuild the game, at which point, is it still a mod or is it...a remake? I think that's why Minecraft is used as the example here, as it's closer to how the planets behave than the fallout wastelands or the Skyrim tundra.
      Bethesda created this problem themselves by using procedural generation in an engine that just isn't fit for purpose.

  • @chrisfierro1719
    @chrisfierro1719 Год назад +15

    another problem with starfield modding is that alot of the innovations in skyrim mods that did things we didn't think were possible took over 5 years after release to get to the point where it began to be possible. I don't think that starfield is going to have the sticking power to solve the solutions

    • @Mirthful_Midori
      @Mirthful_Midori Год назад +1

      Starfield's player counts have already dropped below Skyrim and Fallout 4. Adding in the "mostly negative" reviews on Steam points to Starfield already being dead.

  • @calebbarbosa22
    @calebbarbosa22 Год назад +28

    Yeah I remember first reading about the fishbowl and having a hunch this was the problem after reading about a similar thing happening to Skyrim modders years ago with the Beyond Skyrim project. Originally they wanted to build the entire map of Tamriel as one large landmass, but when testing, they found the the game would become increasingly unstable the further you got from the center of skyrims map, which is why they eventually separated it into segments. I believe the physics in particular began to run wild.

    • @Luckyleol
      @Luckyleol Год назад

      And i would imagine origin shifting doesn't work or isn't possible for the engine?

    • @si_w8201
      @si_w8201 Год назад

      And it's still not out...

    • @theemperorofmankind3739
      @theemperorofmankind3739 Год назад +1

      ​@@Luckyleol As far as I know no one has a solution for origin shifting to be able to be implemented into the game through mods.
      It might be possible, emphasis on the might but it is most likely that you would need to rework the engine itself to implement it

    • @niceto_meet_you2528
      @niceto_meet_you2528 Год назад

      @@si_w8201 it is out or at least a part of it is anyway. There's a mod that lets you travel south to Cyrodil and visit Bruma.

  • @ShimSham.
    @ShimSham. 9 месяцев назад +1

    As an avid modder of fallout 4, I knew I wouldn’t be as attached to Starfield as I am to the fallout series, but I still expected I’d stick around long enough to make some weapon mods and even ship mods, but after spending nearly 100 hours looking for the content in Starfield, I have no desire to return to the game. Fallout 4, despite its many faults, still has a fundamental “soul” that Starfield just plain lacks. If you put a gun to my head I wouldn’t be able to tell you what I was doing for 80% of my playtime in Starfield aside from running around.
    First PBR Bethesda game that’s “properly” moddable, and there’s no reason to return to it.

  • @Kasper0822
    @Kasper0822 Год назад +19

    Modding was great for me when i wanted to play the game again, but i could have a slightly different experience because of the mods. The problem with Statfield is that i don't want to spend any more time with it. You can fix Traveling, maps, menus and numerous other things with mods and it's still not enough. The whole setting is pretty boring, and the main quest is about who gets to do a new game plus. Everyone was basically worshiping my character, why would he even want to redo everything?

    • @RocketRenton
      @RocketRenton Год назад

      They did put in a lot of effort in the planets if you fully survey them, but as time goes on you see the same thing over and over across the star systems like the same crystals in the ground with a slightly different colour etc.

  • @Sad_Elf
    @Sad_Elf Год назад +18

    Its amazing that we've looped right back around to the same problems we had back in morrowind where the game would only load one cell at a time until modders gave us distant lands

    • @ApocGuy
      @ApocGuy Год назад +4

      Same problem, twenty years later... It's Beth we're talking about, why is this such a surprise?

    • @Sad_Elf
      @Sad_Elf Год назад +1

      @@ApocGuy its like using an engine made in 1997 might lead to some issues in the modern age

    • @ApocGuy
      @ApocGuy Год назад

      @@Sad_Elf not might, but deff WILL lead to major problems in future games.

  • @Carlizawwsum
    @Carlizawwsum Год назад +43

    Can you imagine if the new form of traversal is just a grappling hook

    • @TheSGBrown
      @TheSGBrown Год назад +5

      And, Horse Armor; er, no, wait. . .

    • @BryanOrion-m5i
      @BryanOrion-m5i Год назад +6

      I can see them adding something like boost packs, that give you a short burst of speed while you run and then it has to recharge....essentially a stamina wheel.

    • @joewasmund5173
      @joewasmund5173 Год назад +4

      I'm almost certain it won't be anything we're actually asking for, otherwise they would have been slightly more clear in an effort to improve the negativity. They didn't, though. They are being vague because it's the same shit they did during their marketing campaign. Keep it vague because when it's less than what we really led you to believe, we didn't technically lie.

    • @MSpotatoes
      @MSpotatoes Год назад

      Custom Titanium Cobalt plasma boots. To run faster.

    • @TheSGBrown
      @TheSGBrown Год назад +2

      @@MSpotatoes No, no, no. Running faster would make each TILE seem smaller. Bethesda will want to sell Unobtanium Boots that actually make your character run slower, so that each player shall have more time to 'discover' their own fun! :)

  • @edwardmighetto7327
    @edwardmighetto7327 9 месяцев назад +1

    Hey software developer here. Some of your explanations about floating points and integers are incorrect. First off, in general floats and integers generally use the same amount of memory (although how much memory they use is technically just how much you allocate to them...). What you get from floats is precision. An integer can only represent whole numbers: 1, 2, 3... etc whereas floats can store 'real numbers' meaning: 0.1, 0.01, 0.001 etc. A float can also store much higher numbers than an integer. The floating point errors mentioned have to do with floats rounding when they have very large or very small numbers that need to be extremely precise. You cant perfectly store such a wide range of values in the same memory as an integer with perfect precision, so when the exact values become extremely important such as rendering, float rounding errors can start to break things.

  • @frankiecoss7141
    @frankiecoss7141 Год назад +9

    Did you know that starfield has a bug that has existed since Fallout 4 (like many other bugs that exist in the game) with gun projectile-reticle alignment. If you are at a higher elevation than the target you are aiming at (eg. looking down), the projectile will hit up and to the left of where you are aiming by a significant margin causing you to miss your target entirely.

    • @niceto_meet_you2528
      @niceto_meet_you2528 Год назад +1

      is this just a problem in 3rd person? I've played through fallout 4 numerous times and have never had this issue in 1st person. When I saw something like this in 3rd person I just assumed it had something to do with how aiming from a 3rd person perspective was handled.

    • @RobinSonAr
      @RobinSonAr Год назад +1

      Mostly noticeable when sneaking..

  • @alandab
    @alandab 11 месяцев назад +30

    FYI: Star Citizen experienced this same issue early on in the project. They solved it by converting their engine to 64 bit, from 32 bit. That gave them much, much more precison to track objects no matter how far they left to spawn point.

    • @karisasani7006
      @karisasani7006 11 месяцев назад +3

      But it did pay off in the end for them. Im guessing due to the freaking Creation engine being just not able to handle that, bethesda wasn't able to bother

    • @beeman4266
      @beeman4266 10 месяцев назад +2

      I don't know much about game engines but I'm shocked they were using a 32 bit engine. Weren't they using a modified cryengine for star citizen?
      I just think back to old school runescape, it's a 32 bit game engine hence why the max stack of coins or anything else is 2.147 billion or whatever the 32 bit integer is. Runescape came out in 2004 but iirc the engine (runescript) was based on actual old school from like 2001.
      I'm just shocked anyone would be using a 32 bit engine still, that couldn't have been easy for them to convert star citizens engine to 64 bit.

    • @alandab
      @alandab 10 месяцев назад

      @@beeman4266 Cryengine, as is MOST engines, is 32 bit.

    • @beeman4266
      @beeman4266 10 месяцев назад +2

      @@alandab Interesting, that's surprising. I guess I'm thinking about it in operating system terms, we switched over to 64 bit years ago because 32bit was limited to low ram or something right? I figured game engines would be the same, but if they're just modified holdovers from years ago I guess it makes sense.

    • @alandab
      @alandab 10 месяцев назад +1

      @@beeman4266 For the vast majority of games, 32 bit is more than enough. But for a "space game" where you need to track objects billions of kilometers away without loading screens, 64-bit is a necessity.

  • @blackpsymon1
    @blackpsymon1 Год назад +87

    When you brought up the Floats I was reminded at Star Citizens development.
    In 2014/2015 CIG had the same problem with the CryEngine. Maps needed to be limited to 8km spheres until they conversed the whole Engine from 32bit to 64bit to have the Floats with an higher detail to realize solar system sized systems.
    Before when you got close to the map edge in Arena Commander the UI started to flicker because it‘s rendered a few millimeters away from the players eyes. The floats simply couldn‘t provide a high enough resolution to accurately render everything.
    Thats one of the many reasons „Star Citizen takes too long“.

    • @MontySaurusRex_
      @MontySaurusRex_ Год назад +15

      Now they have a full solar system, a second one on the way. They cracked persistence across the entire game and are onto the most difficult task of making it all separate servers meshed together to reduce load.

    • @DreadCaptainSqueek
      @DreadCaptainSqueek Год назад +6

      Yep, I remember those days. The game Chris presented in 2012-2016 was a completely different game than what we have today due to those tech limitations. Imagine working on a project (plus hiring new employees / new offices) only to fundamentally tear it apart and over 4 years later. At least CIG caught it "early". Then, you have pre-conversion legacy ideas such as the MISC Endeavor lurking in the background giving John Crewe nightmares...

    • @MrNotBot
      @MrNotBot Год назад +3

      @@MontySaurusRex_ And the servers still melt down when they have over 10 people in an instance.

    • @elixwhitetail
      @elixwhitetail Год назад +7

      @@MrNotBot Which is exactly why, as KoteTheBard says in the exact comment you're replying to, the devs are currently working on server meshing so they can load-balance the servers instead of a single server instance having to simulate the entire star system. It's the Jita problem, but EVE Online's solution was to just buy the beefiest servers money can buy and when that doesn't work engage in time dilation to slow the flow of in-game time to as slow as 10% realtime and that does not work for a first-person game so CIG's had to go for the much harder and longer solution, spreading a star system across multiple server instances responsible for sections instead of everything all at once.

    • @nmmeswey3584
      @nmmeswey3584 Год назад +7

      star citizen is the crisis of this generation, a game built for hardware that does not even exist yet