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I can't believe how many of the stubbly youtubers are pushing these at the moment. It's not a bad thing in itself, but back when I was an occasional shaver, there were disposable (black) Bic razors with a metal guard and only one blade that worked perfectly no matter how long the hair. They out-performed "safety razors" and other disposable razors not in the blade support (which is the usp in your script, matching other scripts I've seen read), but actually it's the skin guard that counts (in my experience)- plastic disposables have struts under the blades, whick snag hairs and get blocked pretty fast (many safety razors have similar obstructions) the black bics had a smooth stiff wire with no supports within the blade length, so kept the skin at the right distance and angle for efficient cutting of hair without pulling skin in for cutting, and the hair that had been cut didn't get in the ways of that dynamic either (yhis might be the case with the ones you're pushing too, but the main focus seems to be on "aerospace" and gap above the blade in your presentation (nice graphics btw👍) rather than "hairospace", and gap below the blade😉
Christian Science + Crohn’s Disease nearly killed me when I was 16. I was dying on my parents’ couch for months, was taken to a Christian Science nursing facility called Broadview (f**king horrific there). When they realized I was 24 hours from death because of the black mold growing in my open wounds, I was luckily taken to an actual ER. I was so afraid to be taken there. I was in the hospital for a month, my hair fell out from starvation, I am still covered in scars from this time in my life. I had to relearn to walk when I left I had lost so much muscle. I just started EMDR to try to help my PTSD. I have endless horrific stories about my family and other’s … one includes a friend’s grandmother losing her arm from gangrene, hiding it under the bed, and wearing a shawl to hide the wound. I am so appreciative that you made this video to get the word out. I’m yearning for healing from what this church did to my family and me - and learning so many details here I didn’t know is incredible and helpful and thank you thank you thank you ❤❤❤
There is a LOT of social pressure. ONe thing the video didn't talk about is that most Christian Scientists--all their social contacts are too. So leaving is definitely hard and scary. You have tons of courage. And thanks for sharing your story.
That story about the gangrenous arm is as horrific as yours, if not more! I have difficulty believing it could possibly occur, despite believing you entirely.
My dad was born and raised by devout Christian Scientist parents. Once he moved away from home his 'act of rebellion' was FULLY embracing all doctors and medicine, which lengthened his life since he had cancer 3 times before dying.
@@UniDocs_Mahapushpa_Cyavana It was actually three different kinds too. First Non-Hodgkin's Lymphoma, then Melanoma, then Pancreas cancer. But he survived almost 5 years with pancreas cancer (longer than any pancreas cancer patients his oncologist ever had) all because one brand of chemo worked really well on just 'stopping' the spread though not actively killing the cancer. But eventually the chemo was damaging his heart because it wasn't ever supposed to be used for more than a couple years. Most pancreas cancer patients didn't live long enough to be in his situation with it. But yeah I'm so glad modern science allowed me to have at least 23 more years with my dad that I wouldn't have had if the Non-Hodgkins (or Christian Science) had gotten him in the first round.
as soon as you mentioned fruity breath my heart dropped. i wasn’t diagnosed with diabetes until i was 10 because no one took my pain seriously, and the months leading up to my hospitalization were pure agony. the doctors said i was very lucky to have survived as long as i did untreated. My heart breaks for Ian because i understand not only the fear but also the pain :(
I have a friend who nearly died as a kid. C of C Science parents, thought he was trying to get out of chores, and he was just getting weaker and weaker. He'd been feeling awful for close to a year I think. I don't remember where his teacher came from since he was homeschooled, maybe it was a tutor or a teacher for a small group class, something? anyway he had a teacher who told him he could call her if he needed anything. I'm guessing she didn't mean this... He dragged himself up the road to the gas station, called the paramedics, and gave them her name so his parents wouldn't be called and he could get well. He said he thought it would just be like an overnight thing, they'd give him some magic medicine and he could go home like he'd run away, and he would only get in trouble for being gone. In the ER they discovered he had leukemia, quite advanced. He says they were pretty frank that his survival likelihood was quite low even with treatment. He pretty much had to fight with the state of Arkansas on his own to get away from his parents and get the treatment he needed to live. His teacher helped as much as she could, but couldn't do much more than be supportive, visit, etc, which is much more than his parents did. I know she was a part of him getting free of them, and since he was returned to them he needed a lot of support. They made it very clear that if he pursued any treatment other than faith, he was excommunicated and no longer their son regardless of what the courts said (which I imagine was a big part of why he won out eventually). He was too young to be an emancipated minor (like 9, 10) so he wound up in a group home initially rather than foster care. His parents stuck by what they said, the last time he saw them was in court. He did eventually wind up in a great foster home with people whom he refers to as his parents, so he did find people who cared for and still love him like children should be cared for and loved. And obviously I met him as an adult, so he survived, and he will NEVER say "thank God!" about it because "that motherfucker was just fine with letting me die."
@@StevenBanks123 I know! It's always struck me as such an awfully tragic story, that's obviously why it's stuck with me for so long. And that young! I was dealing with some rough things I shouldn't have had to contend with at that age too, but I *CERTAINLY* wasn't fighting in court to *make* the state take me *away* from my family so that I wouldn't *die* of the cancer my parents were refusing to treat because of the religion I'd spent my *entire* *brief* *life* cocooned within. What an awful thing to have to do at that age, leave practically everyone and everything you've ever known because you want to live. Some people *would* rather die than that. I've always thought it seemed like the state put him in a group home kind of out of spite, too, like "You want to be in The System? Welcome to The System! Hope you're still happy with being alive by the time they're through with you, if you even do survive!"
@@amazingjane2703 Dude...I'm sorry to be the first one to tell you this (apparently), but...there has been rather a LOT of suffering inspired by, justified by, and/or perpetrated in the name of EVERY denomination of Christianity. You're really in for quite a surprise when you hear about some of the stuff the Catholics have been up to for, like, forever. And these parents seem to have thought that a little bit of human suffering was what was necessary for their sick-as-hell kid to go to Heaven. And he was on board with his faith and his church and family and life there in until he was actively dying. He said one of the hardest parts of all of it was having his family and the denomination of the church he was raised in turn against him and very clearly explain exactly why he would be going to hell for not trusting that God was doing the right thing. So, your message I think might be better addressed to some douchey religious nuts in Northwest Arkansas. But I think if they're willing to watch a child slowly die in pain, they don't much care what you think their religious beliefs SHOULD be.
"Animal Magnetism" is the same as _ki/chi/qi/prana._ Thus why it sounds just like The Force. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Mesmer read some translations of Chinese or Japanese books when he formulated his ideas.
"Animal electricity", or the effect of electricity on animals (e.g. muscle twitching) was known about not long after the battery was invented, so the idea that there might have also been "animal magnetism" wasn't too farfetched at the time.
@@kaing5074 Just replace the world vibe with mood, or feeling. Vibe check is someone checking what your current mood, or feeling is. So "animal magnetism" is not a vibe check.
Metallica’s song “The God That Failed” is based on the fact that singer James Hetfield’s mother held onto her beliefs up until her excruciating pain from cancer.
I grew up a Christian Scientist. Growing up in a cult is wild in retrospect. You're entirely correct, especially on how boring church services are. My church in California was... maybe less radical, save for a few members. My sister and I were vaccinated and treated... mostly. My childhood best-friend's dad died of cancer. Our Sunday School teacher's wife had a miscarriage. I had a cyst at the base of my spine go untreated for two years. I walked with a limp and was in constant pain. It took major surgery at age 14 and months of painful recovery. The breaking point, when I was 15, was another Sunday School teacher saying "they think man is made of dust; they don't even know what causes the common cold". I shouted "the rhinovirus" and stormed out. A different teacher came to console me and we talked about my friend's dad. He confided my friend's dad turned to medicine just before he died, and implied that was why he died. Growing up in a cult is wild.
I don't know about a cult, but they certainly are a quirky bunch of very devout people. That said, maybe the circles you were around were different than mine. My family was in the Church since MBE's time, and when I said, "not for me," they didn't shun or reject me. I mean my father and grandfather were practitioners, and everything.
@@couldntgetagoodname They're all perfectly nice people, but being nice doesn't make up for causing harm. Failing to act makes them responsible. Just because they're not isolationist doesn't mean they're not a cult.
@@RobertN734 the isolation doesn’t make a cult either, it’s the veneration of an individual or object. It’s like what KB had mentioned in this and other video, it’s the second in command. If your religion or movement dies with you, then you have yourself a cult (think Jim Jones). Plenty of non-cults have plenty of things objectionable and dangerous. One of my general turn offs with a wide variety of Christian sects is the whole “spare the rod, spoil the child” line
@@couldntgetagoodnametechnically any small religion with views out of step with the surrounding culture and established religions can be described as a cult. Another term is New Religious Movement, which seeks to destigmatize younger religions and remove the implication that they are by nature harmful.
I didn't get an education, medical help, was beaten, under fed, and generally neglected. Nothing happened when CPS was called. I remember the worker telling me the situation was complicated because we were religious when I asked her to help my siblings and I somehow. You shouldn't be able to get away with abuse to minors for your religious reasons... Side note: I got my GED then college, my own family.. it was very hard but my life is good now besides the struggle with nightmares and random scary flashbacks. I've been having issues finding help that my insurance covers because I cant afford it out of pocket.
@@calamityjean1525 We all have our own families so pretty good. :) I've kind of figured life out. My parents left the church and got divorced so I forgave them for myself a decade after. I see them a few times a year now. I actually got an apology from my dad
@Lost pelican Oh yeah. Christianity always gets a pass. 'Freedom of religion' or 'religious liberty' in the US is all just code for Christian privilege and Christian right to oppress others.
It’s insanity the US has these types of idiotic laws. In a common sense country, “religious liberties” END the second the rights or wellbeing of a person are in jeopardy. Fucking lunacy
Maybe most people haven't heard of these people, but I sure have. My grandma's stepmother was one, and told her when she had a miscarriage that it was her fault for having sinful thoughts. We've held the grudge beyond my grandma's lifespan.
One of my childhood friends grew up going to a Christian Science. One of his friends from the church had a very treatable form of cancer, but because of her family's attachment to the church they refused to seek help and she died at the age of 12. He has been scarred by it and disillusioned by all faiths, because of it, and he grew up unvaccinated, but now he's finally building up the courage to get vaccinated.
I had a classmate who was of a similar faith. I'm not entirely sure what, as I'd never heard about "Christian Science" but they refused all medical treatment or prevention. I made him cry one day by calling those type of religious people morons (not knowing his religion). Felt like an asshole everytime I saw him later, until one day he disappeared. Turns out he died of the regular flu. Witholding medicine from one's own children is disgusting.
My mother hated Christian Science, the religion she grew up in. Her father got an infection (I forget what kind) and died because of his faith. She raised us as Jehovah's Witnesses. From one cult to another☹️
Strange isn't it? But it seemed perfectly reasonable to us kids as well because of the clever ways they indoctrinated us. It wasn't until I left I discovered they also believed vaccines were sinful abominations up until the 50's. Or before. I forget. There's a lot of history the Governing Body doesn't want JWs to know. But yeah, we're The Truth, it's the other religions that are crazy!
My grandpa had a boss who was a Christian Scientist when my mom was young. According to my mom, the boss’s wife had breast cancer which she couldn’t get treatment for, and while she was dying of cancer, he was having an affair with a subordinate. My grandpa quit with no other job lined up because it made him so sick working for someone like that
Not to be that guy, but I have abused alcohol, don't know if I have smoked weed. I have done a couple of substances. My benzo addiction had the worst with drawls that I have ever dealt with. I know you're talking about cancer, and I'm an addict. If hellish drugs like benzos are allowed, and are acceptable long term treatment. I don't blame anyone for choosing scam over science backed up even though academia is a joke these days. I take care of my health so I don't have to take medication in the future.
When I was a child I was very curious about the Christian Science church in my town. I thought it'd be a neat place with pictures of Jesus looking through a microscope. My father, a biology teacher, said, "It's not THAT kind of science." He was right. Years later I actually got to go inside and was quite disappointed. Not a test tube or microscope in sight.
When insulin was discovered in 1922, the life expectancy of a diabetic went from 12 months from diagnosis to 12 years from diagnosis. That was 15 years before Ashley died in 1937. Insulin wasn't that new and it was proven effective. I'm horrified. Edit: With the last story, as soon as you mentioned the fruity breath, I knew it was diabetes. God. When I was diagnosed I had fruity breath, and I had already been sick for weeks. But not with a stomach ache. When I was disgarged from the hospital, my blood sugar was still high, and I was told that if I had a stomach ache, I should return to the hospital *immediately*.
You have no idea how many people were killed in the development of insulin. Everything is experimental and the people who took the insulin prototypes were morbidly obese and volunteered for it. The people who were just a little chubby didn't take it because they didn't need it. Modern science is all about accepting what the majority of scientists say and you're not allowed to question it.
How many people die in the development of insulin ? And those who take insulin have diabetes so i dont get why "people who were little chubby didn't take it because they didn't it" regardless of how 'fat' they are if they are diabetic they need it.
My experience was very different. I had an insane unquenchable thirst. I finally went in when I drank 48 bottles of water in 24 hours. I peed every 15 minutes and could NOT sleep because I had to pee so bad. And my thirst was so unquenchable. I finally googled unquenchable thirst and non stop pee and seen it was a symptom of keto acidosis. My blood sugar was at 700. My A1C was 15.1. My last A1C test I was at 5.1. But I still feel depressed occasionally. Diabetes is huge. I know they say you can reverse it. But I know it can't be cured. I am taking it well now. But occasionally I get depressed. The bland foods. The daily non stop water. It makes me upset some days. But thanks to my love of flavor I paid the price. Over indulged!
@@neko-cat1954 you might want to rethink that question. You were sure to die before insulin. As it was being developed, you had a hope of living longer. Once developed and tested, it added decades to the lives of diabetics.
@@jasongoodburn-moffitt8396 edit:spelling ahh i think you might be confuse. I am questioning the replies that present the 'development' of insulin in negative life by saying it has cause a lot of death and i want to know if this is true because i cant find the source . Not before the development. And the reply that i was asking the questioning to, has been deleted .
The fact that his parents conviction was overturned is sickening, As well as the cases that went unprosecuted. Wild to think that the people who participate in this kind of abuse are around us.
@@paintdrinker455 I don't read much into that, nor dwell on it either. There's always messed up people who can forgive themselves of everything bad they do and never find any fault in themselves. They're called narcissists, and trying to get them to reflect on the failures of their own actions is pointless. If they are a threat to others, or their own children, then it's up to society and the law to judge them and intervene if necessary, regardless of whether they feel remorseful, guilty, or even consider themselves at-fault for the horrendous abuse and neglect.
Christian Science should just rename themselves as the “Church of Thoughts and Prayers.” Learning about those children’s deaths made me visibly upset. Thank you so much for making a video about this, I learned so much!
It’s literally the church of thoughts and prayers! I laughed so loud. You have no idea how true this was being in the organization and not understanding any of it at all 😅
I was raised in Christian Science from an “egg”. :) My father was not a member. If any illness did not show improvement, he demanded we be taken to a doctor. Thank goodness! I can’t imagine having 2 CS parents. One of the most damaging aspects of this cult is the emotional abuse that is experienced. Not only is sickness “unreal” , but also bad feelings. So if I was feeling scared or homesick or any other “bad” emotion I was told to “know the truth” because none of what I was feeling was real. If that doesn’t do a number on a person’s emotional development I don’t know what will. I finally was able to leave Christian Science at about age 41 after my mother passed away. I am so angry at Mary Baker Eddy for all of the bullsh*t she pushed. I still consider myself spiritual but my prayers are so tainted with all the crazy quotes I was indoctrinated with I hate it! When you quoted the Scientific Statement of Being my brain went into auto mode. During my childhood I was sent to Christian Science overnight camp, boarding school and Sunday School up to the age of 18. Talk about indoctrination! I attended the Daycroft School where the polio outbreak took place. I actually met one of the students who became partially paralyzed. During my stay, I caught pink eye. Needless to say prayer did nothing. It became so bad I had to go home. When my dad took me to the doctor he said in all his years he had never seen such a bad case. He applied a thick ointment. The next day my eyes were so much better I thought a miracle had occurred. The first time I took Advil for a headache, I just about cried with relief. I had never in all the years I was a practicing member experienced a single healing of any physical problem. I was told I wasn’t doing it correctly. That is messed up!! Thank you for all your research and hard work!!
yes, that is a good point about the emotional abuse from any 'bad' emotion (or event) being dismissed as unreal, especially bad for child cognitive development. both of my parents were CS and ironically all I can think is "There but for the grace of God go I" when I hear about these child death cases. I didn't have any major illnesses or accidents as a kid luckily, but if I did, would I have had the same fate? My parents surely never thought to take me to a doctor or give me otc medicine. Some of my family members went to daycroft too. from what one of them said, it seems sexual abuse (between students) was also a problem, as it was at Principia where I attended (there's been 1 criminal case and a few civil suits but those just scratch the surface).
I cannot tell you how happy this makes me as an ex-christian scientist. I was born into the religion, though my Dad was agnostic. My Mom had to face tons of abuse from christian science as a kid. I wasn’t given any vaccinations until I was 12, when we left the cult and searched for our own beliefs. More videos, documentaries, books, and sources on this topic need to exist. Christian Science has a mountain of dirty laundry hidden in the closet that people need to know about, because they DO put lives at risk, both non-CS lives and lives of CS children. The fact that they have exemptions from law exclusively for them is batshit insane. Side note, if you (anyone reading this) haven’t already, please read Father Mother God by Lucia Greenhouse. It’s about the author’s life as a Christian Scientist and her eventual escape from the religion, detailing all kinds of shit she lived through. Stuff about how as a teenager, she was already used to other kids mentioning CS as “well I had an aunt/neighbor/whoever who was a christian scientist that died of [insert preventable disease here].” Also her story about coming out to her Dad for needing glasses. Remember, mortal senses are not real, and trying to treat them with something like glasses gives the devil power. It is wild the shit christian scientists go through. I know this comment is long winded, but I mean this 1000 times over: thank you for making this video. I genuinely cannot express this enough. Thank you for researching it so thoroughly to not miss a single important detail about it.
I an ex-CS too. Fathermothergod is an incredible book that brutally conveys the guilt, shame, and suffering inflicted by these beliefs. I wish my friends and family that are still attached to CS (directly or indirectly from being raised in it) would wake up to how full of shit it is.
almost like two sides same coin? so the "Antivax" is protected no taxes and is exempt and vaccine manufactures are ALSO excempt so they are just two sides of the same coin?
This makes so much of my early childhood make sense. Growing up, I had a next-door neighbor who was an older woman who would babysit me pretty often and I really liked spending time with her, but when I was around five I realized I hadn't been to her house in a while. My parents explained that she was sick, and an bacterial infection had almost completely spread through her heart. I didn't understand what this meant, and I figured she would go to the hospital and come back after a few months. She never came back. I found out later when we were invited to the funeral that the infection started as something pretty mild that she refused antibacterial meds for. It got worse and worse until the infection got to her heart, and she once again refused medication on religious grounds. She said that she would trust in God's plan for her, whether that meant living or dying. I found out many years later that my parents wouldn't let me see her in the hospital because when she wasn't verbally abusing staff, she was thrashing around and crying out in pain. None of my grandparents lived close by, so she was Grandma to me when I was little. She died in her mid-fifties from an entirely avoidable illness.
Update: I texted my mother about this, and she mentioned that our neighbor spent most of her treatment in a nursing home. She only spent her last few days in a nearby hospital. The infection had broken off pieces of her heart that were now circulating in her bloodstream, and her son was able to insist on giving her pain management because she was no longer conscious enough to make medical decisions.
@@aazhie I still miss her and I wish my parents or one of her friends had pushed her to get treatment, but I'm glad that her children didn't follow in her beliefs and I hope she had some peace in her last hours. She was the first person to teach me about yarn crafting, which has become my special interest and is a huge part of my life, so I'll always be grateful that I got to spend my formative years with her. She was also careful not to push her beliefs on to me, something that not all of my caretakers did when they learned my family wasn't Christian.
my grandfather was raised in a christian science household, he was 1 of 18 children (some died in early childhood, 13 lived to adulthood) and both he and his favorite cousin got an appendicitis, the family prayed over the two of them but she died. my grandfather was the second to last kid born and his younger brother was born premature, since they couldn't take him to the hospital the sisters of the family put him in the oven as an incubator and saved his life. as my grandfather grew up he loved going to drug stores and buying random first aid supplies to have around the house, multiple of his brothers and sisters went on to be doctors, nurses, or dentists.
The people who _actually_ feel like Anne Frank in Nazi Germany are too terrified to speak up about it, in case they're heard. That's a big part of why Anne Frank's experience was distinct from her contemporaries. (Also the fact that her life was documented.)
@@timothymcleanpeople still say Anne Frank's diary is fake cause there are different kinds of inks. As if she couldn't use multiple pens. People are retarded
She's probably not even wrong in asserting that her daughter felt that way... Though towards what _her parents_ were putting her through, not towards her hospital admission. That poor girl had to lay there immobilized for months, in terrible pain as the cancer spread through her body, her parents refusing to get her genuine help.
While my family has never been Christain Scientists, most of them are devout christains. My oldest sister has two children now and refuses to vaccinate them and is very into "homeopathic remedies". Even if christain science as a religion itself is on a decline, your outro was spot on about the remaining influence of christain science on culture and policy. She openly talked to me about using these religious exemptions to avoid having her children vaccinated.
There's a certain branch of Christianity that seems to be more prone to falling for those kinds of alternative medicines, as well as MLMs and other scams. I'm not totally sure what you'd call them, if it's Evangelical, or Pentecostal, I'm not sure, but I know some like that. I kind of see it a couple of different ways. One is people being told how to think and what should and should not be questioned, that things were better before, and that older is somehow better (I was raised in a Christian environment that welcomed even the hardest of questions, and that's one of the only reasons I stayed). The other is that most people have a major tendency towards confirmation bias. Anyone who's taken high school or first year university science credits will know that the goal of a scientific study should be framed as trying to prove yourself wrong or discover something new, not prove yourself right. People look for connections all the time, and without thousands of people to study all those individual things, it's easy to jump to conclusions based on personal belief or even fairytales you've been told. I know that's a big issue with relationships, kids being told these ideals and fantasy love stories, and even misleading ideas that lead a lot of girls especially to put up with a lot of things they shouldn't when trying to figure out what a relationship is. I like seeking out other perspectives and looking at what different people say about certain things, as long as it has some sort of solid background.
My mom grew up in the age of tuberculosis and pre-smallpox eradication. She made my siblings and I were vaccinated for everything. I feel sorry for her kids. There are many diseases that they can come down with that cause unnecessary suffering and put others at risk. Hopefully those kids can come to terms with her irrational and reckless beliefs and leave her toxicity behind when they become adults.
That fact that some Christians just don't believe in medicine makes me sad Ive never heard anything referring to not doing that so I don understand why some people do
I went through a Metallica phase as a teenager, and it really opened my eyes, hearing about the origins of 'The God That Failed'. As a teenager, I assumed it was the usual heavy metal edgelord-ism, and not much more than that. (I've always liked the way the music sounds, but a lot of the stuff that comes with it is hard to take seriously. Even as a teenager, I rolled my eyes at a lot of it.) But you can HEAR the distain and the rage in that song, and knowing now where those feelings come from, I'm going to go back and re-listen to it.
My grandfather on my dad’s side who I had never met was a huge Christian scientist during his time. However this proved to be fatal to him once he had gotten cancer. About 7-8 months before he died, he had passed out due to the amount of pain that he was holding in. At the time he had no idea what was happening to him but he knew it wasn’t good. My Dad and Aunt who were also a Christian scientists at the time, eventually began noticing that he began looking visually more uncomfortable after his event and went against their usual instincts and began encouraging him to go see a doctor. However, he refused many times. It eventually got to the point where they both had to yell at him to get him to go. Once he went to see one, it was already too late. The cancer had spread everywhere and he had 3 months to live. During his final few weeks in the hospital, he tried to refuse what medicine he could, even morphine. He was in so much pain up to the last moments in his life because he so strongly believed that at any moment in time. He would be healed and be good as new. He died at the age of 55.
This is like the parable of the drowning man, otherwise known as “two boats and a helicopter” “God, I believed you would save me, why would you let me die?” “Well, I sent you Doctors who knew how to cure you - and I sent your family to make you go to the doctor.”
My step-grandma is a Christian Science member, and her behavior towards my grandpa while he was dying makes so much sense now. My grandpa was crying in pain and she was just so flippant about the whole thing, so much so that my mom thought she had poisoned him to cape his death.
My parents became Christian Scientists specifically to avoid vaccinating my older sibling and myself. That was when I was in middle school and it was horrible. Even though they don't call themselves that anymore and are more open to going for real medical care, they're still horribly misguided by it's ideology. My blind faith that my parents knew what was best ended when I was sick with (what I assume was) the flu or a bad cold. They also believed in Jim Humble's MMS "cure" which I had already refused to trust. Instead of taking me to a doctor, they decided to put MMS in my drink with breakfast. I threw up until I was too exhausted to do anything but pass out. When I woke up, my mom gave me soup that she added MMS to that my dad had made... with MMS. I overheard them in the kitchen proudly saying that they had snuck it in to each other before they started arguing about the overdosing but I was already throwing up again. I felt worst the next day but I forced myself to go to school so I wouldn't have to go through that again. I was able to get fully vaccinated at the end of high school, because pulling the Christian Scientist card didn't work for a program I was accepted into.
I had no idea what MMS was so I googled it first result miracle cure buy here, second result wikipedia what was like the third line in Wikipedia it is a branded version of chlorine dioxide and it can induce vomiting diarrhea flu symptoms and death. I sincerely apologize that people like that exist on this planet.
Now THIS is something that effected me growing up. Parents would barely take us to the doctor unless required by school or sports. Its still hard for me to just go to the doctor. Like i just forget thats an option i have. But i know alot of people have had it worse.
My grandfather grew up in this church. He became a staunch atheist for most of his life, and yet he was *still* somewhat avoidant of getting professional medical care, until his cancer made it too apparent of a need.
I usually describe my childhood in Christian Science as, "I was raised in a well-meaning faith-healing cult," and there are inevitably a lot of follow up questions, especially if I go into any detail about how the benevolent medical neglect derailed my life. It's the expedient way to describe it, if slightly inaccurate. I'm delighted I'll have a link to point people at if they want to know better (ba-dum-dum).
I was raised in it too, I know people whom the neglect permanently affected. Crazy how parents ignored stuff right in front of them when they could've easily prayed while seeking medical care.
Mind if i ask a question? I'm curious how literal wounds are dealt with , or does the belief in everything being psychosomatic just for unseem injury and ilness?
@@meaganbritainy3868 short version is, "it depends". My grandfather was a Christian Scientist, and served in Germany in WW2. He got shot once, and clipped by a shell on another occasion. He was happy to get treatment. Some are more mellow, Granddad's approach to it was like KB's 30-day challenge. My Dad, quite different. he died of late stage cancer because he put treatment off.
I don't know if cult is a apt term. They are a devout bunch, but they will let you join and leave. I mean, you left, were you shunned or targeted like a Scientologist might be? I left, and I still have great relations with people and family I knew from the church. Doesn't feel cult-y
Cults don't always keep people in with acts like shunning or targeting. It can just be about demonizing the outside world so much that people are afraid to leave. Even if the church will do nothing to prosecute those who do.
That mother who watched her child die of cancer and then had the audacity to liken medical care to Nazi concentration camps... Hearing her insist she's a good mother while surrounded by paper cutouts of the daughter she killed fills me with such incredible rage. In part because of her audacity, and in part because I know she's only this way because she's been lied to. Incredible journalism. Hopefully it won't be long before these abuse-protection laws get stricken from the books.
@Jackamomo As KB said throughout the video, it’s your right as an adult to refuse medical care and seek the treatment you want. It’s another thing to let a child die a painful, preventable death, as the comment you’re replying to is talking about
@@abigailchiesa1337 yeah but if you don’t trust doctors, how could you justify sending your kid to a medical professional who you genuinely believe is going to harm them further? The lesson is that it’s wrong to not believe in medicine because it’s not up for debate how real and actually true it is. So the criminalise the rejection of science is the only logical course of action.
As a Christian, I had no idea such a sect existed. I've even passed by a Christian Science church in my downtown area without even really understanding what it was. Thank you so much for making this video!
The best way to think of it isn’t as a sect but as a cult that merely claims legitimacy from a distant association with a belief they have little real relation to. CS isn’t recognized by any legitimate Christian denominations, even the bad ones.
The same way the climate alarmists change their mind several times too. Global cooling in the 1960s, global warming later, and because they can't get anything right, now it's just climate change where if the temperature rises 10 degrees as the season changes from winter to summer, it's proof of incoming catastrophe.
I’m honestly cackling at the fact that she gave a placebo to a patient she was treating homeopathically like no queen you were just conducting business as usual LMAO
My ex husband had relatives down in Greenville SC. I remember seeing a Christian Science reading room while we were downtown. My ex was pretty knowledgeable about different sects of Christianity. When I asked him what it was, he just said "I don't even know how to begin to explain that." And now I get it.
My father once worked for a Christian science publication. He wasn't part of the religion but it gave him a skewed view. This gave me a more accepting view than I otherwise might have but also made it feel like I had nothing to learn about it. Thank you for proving me wrong. I'm from Boston and learning the history this group has in my state is bizarre. It just feels so weirdly local.
The section on Child Cases was genuinely one of the most disturbing things I’ve ever heard and I spent the whole previous 2 hours knowing it would come up at one point. Absolutely ghoulish that people can support that and that the parents sometimes had the gall to believe they were still good parents after what they put their poor children through.
When he said that kid had a bowel obstruction left untreated I paused the video for a sec. I work in a Veterinary ER, I've seen bowel obstructions on hundreds of dogs including my own. I still vividly remember all of the worst cases- ones where the only thing we can recommend is humane euthanasia because the bloated, heaving animal is too far gone and in unimaginable pain- I would never ever want to see what that looks like on a human child.
These people (fundamental Christians in general) claim you can't be a good person or have morality outside the church and here's my atheist ass thinking I couldn't put my worst enemy through any of that, let alone my child.
So the other day I walk passed a church and I turn to my buddy and go "Huh, it's a Christian Science church. I wonder what they're all about" and then the next day Knowing Better drops a two and a half hour long video discussing what their all about. This guy's in my head
@@kellyngrey4950 yes my child. You have found me. Please, give me all of your money, and whatever you do, never let your child get medical care. SO SAYETH I!
This topic is near and dear to my heart, I've lost a grandmother to breast cancer treated with essential oils and healing crystals. Glad we have some resources for helping lift the veil of ignorance.
Looking through some of the Wikipedia articles mentioned, it seems like there's been a lot of edit activity this past month, mostly correcting the mistakes you mentioned. Thanks for this public service.
Ohhh MG! I have a story for you on that! So, I was working Adult Protective Services. One case, a family member was concerned about their eldest sister. A widow of a Christian Scientist. She was clearly suffering from dementia, some psychotic features, definitely not able to take care of herself. Family urged me to take custody as the state, and I saw the need for a guardian crystal clear - just one problem: When I took custody of people at need, I need to be able to find placement. Placement means at least rehab, but usually a nursing facility. Nursing facilities need medical clearance. Medical clearance means to see a doctor. She refused, citing she is Christian Scientist. The closest pastor was one she didn’t know or trust even if he would have been open to get her cleared since that doesn’t mean treating with medicine, but she was too paranoid. Sooo… I could as representing the State not go ahead with custody since I cannot violate deeply held religious beliefs. But her relatives could. So, I told them that usually, I take custody and turn it over to appropriate relatives, but I couldn’t in this case, but I’d be a witness if they needed one. Cost them a few thousand bucks extra this way. Would have been free if I would have been guardian for a day or two to place her in a safe environment, but I couldn’t.
@GameliEL Auceps I think you are referring to my opening. I'm an atheist. I don't care calling on God or Allah... The reason I don't is that I know it is offensive to some and being offensive is distracting from my story. Even if I think there is no higher being does not mean I need to be insensitive to others. So, I simply avoid doing so.
@GameliEL Auceps I happen to have a close personal relationship with Jesus Christ and He told me to tell you that saying “oh my god” is totally cool and also that he was in a polycule with the 12 disciples. Go with God!
Ashley's case was actually horrifying, I usually don't get emotionally affected by stories like this, but it just made me so angry... How could a mother let her child writhe in suffering for months, still refuse to let her go to hospital, and send her away to slowly die alone in agony and then have the audacity to claim she "knows she's a good mother." This is just indefensible on every level... If I had a child who was suffering, and also believed so strongly in a doctrine that prevented me from trying other methods of helping them relieve that suffering; even if I had faith they'd get better, if I saw them just suffering like that, I would try every possible option to stop it, even if I didn't personally believe it would be effective at all. If I had to, I would try methods that were even complete moonshots because nothing at all would ever be a higher priority to me than to ensure they stop suffering as soon as possible. So thinking "medicine would not be effective" is no fucking excuse at all! If you cared, you would still try it if that was the only option left, wouldn't you...? How any mother could not put their child's suffering as the absolute top priority in their lives is beyond me... They didn't even put her into palliative care, where she'd at least be spared the pain as she needlessly died... Just euthanising her would have been more humane than what they did to her... Absolutely disgusting people.
@@dosmastrify Long story short, mother Theresa opened up a bunch of “clinics” that where full of medical malpractice. She got top quality healthcare to fix her heart but let the poor in her hospices suffer in pain because it brought them closer to God. Wicked old hag.
Really, I've never heard an outsider so accurately and understandably explain the tenants of Christian science in a way that logically exposes its circular beliefs without misunderstanding them.
I grew up in Christian Science with a professional Practitioner as a mother (and a CS podcaster for a father), and I escaped during college, something that led to my estrangement from my family. I am very grateful to see such a thoughtfully considered account of the faith. Most jarring is the fact that many of the names in the Child Cases section are personally familiar to me - I was friends with the Twitchells (of the Massachusetts case) in my teenage years, attended AU (the camp mentioned in the pandemic section), etc. A few thoughts to add to the conversation that might be useful to others: - It's worth noting that the idea presented by this video that CS Practitioners are just 'treating' (big air quotes) other Christian Scientists is false. A large chunk of the practice of many I knew was folks from outside CS, who were perhaps somewhat 'new agey' in their thinking and so receptive to either the philosophy or just the wording and patter of faith healers like my mother. Even though not Church members, these people will sometimes not pursue medical intervention because of the advice of a Practitioner. I feel this is important to mention because it is another way Christian Science negatively impacts those outside the religion itself. - I also have to say that the list of Journal-listed Practitioners is likely not representative of the total number of Practitioners (though certainly the impression of a downward trend is not mistaken). Growing up it seemed like every other CS adult was a Practitioner part time and would be intermittently listed. They could also be unlisted for reasons of internal politics - my mother had drama with the church and was unlisted for some time, even though she practiced full-time and was well known. Many people I love and respect very deeply remain Christian Scientists to this day. If any of you are reading this, recognize my name, and ever want to talk, please feel free to reach out to me. You can be assured of an environment to talk about how you are feeling that is free of guilt.
I appreciate your reaching out to those who remain in CS. You are right about "part time" practitioners, as in order to become Journal listed one needed verified testimonials at least some of which were "physical" healings to submit with the application for listing. Some of these part-timers were in the process, back in the day. Then there was my grandmother, who was hospitalized while a practitioner, listed in the Journal, and had to remove her listing and be sort of "on probation" until she had been free of "materia medica" for at least a year before she could get her listing back. Most of the members considered going to the medical people to be an admission of failure on their own part.
I became friends with Rita Swan, well remotely anyway. I heard about CHILD and contacted her. I do'n't judge her as harshly because people need to know this is a cult and it has tons of social pressures. Everyone they know is a Christian Scientist. Her organization no doubt saved a lot of children (if not her own). and the movement, if not organization is still active. And they sue states and so on. She sad thousands of people brought up in Christian Science contacted her over the years. They even had a sort of convention, which I couldn't afford at the time. I know what you are talking about my grandmother was a Practitioner and dad and mom were both "class instructed". I went to Principa College. I did have a period of disassociation with my parents. We did get closer eventually.
Oh hey, I do recognize your name, as someone who also grew up in CS. Thanks for sharing your experience. It’s a weird thing being out of the religion that was such a huge part of my upbringing, even through college. I still sometimes feel like I have to pretend I’m CS, which is also weird.
@@Ehreads I'm gathering you are referring to Andrew, but it's a small world. CS tend to associate only with other CS, ime, anyway. It's unusual for them to have many friends who aren't. Oh gee, tough thing to deconstruct I think. OTOH, I think people started leaving when I was a kid (I'm 75). It took me a long time to deconstruct and I had no help from anybody. I looked for some kind of group online but the only thing I found was a right wing Christian group. Wasn't leaving one cult for another.
@@515aleon Yes, definitely a small world. I’m fortunate to have friends outside of the religion, and actually finding them has helped a lot. Many of my other friends are former CS, so at least we understand each other. But I have a lot of family and professional connections who are still in the religion, and it’s hard. I’m lucky my parents have supported my desire to seek medical care, but even that was a rocky experience (plus I didn’t even know how to go about seeing a doctor until I was 25). I wish there were support groups for us out there…
I’m one of those people that doesn’t mind gore or hearing about biological horror, but the fact these parents were so deluded into believing nothing was wrong and the fact so many of them got treatment for themselves makes me physically upset
If there’s one thing I’ve learned throughout my 22 years of life, it’s that if someone says the world is going to end in our lifetimes, then I should probably avoid letting anything they say influence me in any way.
Yep! I'm a historian and folks have been predicting the end is nigh since the crucifixion of Christ. They've looked at every happening in a way that fits their beliefs, rather than approaching it rationally. TLDR those fvckers are crazy.
When I was a kid, I loved going to Mardel’s (Christian Bookstore) so I associated that description with a good thing While walking down a street with my mom, I saw a store front that said “Christian Science” and asked to go look My mom kneeled down, looked me straight in the eyes, and said that’s not a real thing, it’s not Christian or science and not to look into it. Tbh, I never looked into it but this has unlocked that trapped memory
@@DiseasedMoss What you really need to know is that the church experience is so antiseptic that the individual could be fooled into thinking that they are the problem.
It is great you got your doctor involved in your small experiment, you set a great example for others to follow in being responsible. It also speaks volumes of your research ethic that you tried to live the topic as best you could without jepordizing your health. Glad I found this channel, your videos are informative and insightful.
My favorite thing about what you do is how you contextualize religions and cultural movements within America's history as it developed. There's were some pretty major forces in the past that shaped our present that we really don't appreciate. I'd love to see you do a video on the Third Great Awakening.
The third great awakening is so large in scope it was kind of already covered in KBs previous videos on the JWs as well as LDS church/Mormons. But maybe a summary/big picture overview would be a nice additional short video
As someone from Tennessee, I’m used to seeing my state on maps with stupid or bullshit laws either on the books or trying to get passed, so you don’t know the joy it brought me to FINALLY see a map where Tennessee isn’t a backwards state!!
I appreciate that you went out of your way to explain how dangerous Christian Science can be to everyone, not just its followers, but if anyone honestly thinks it's okay because it only affects the children of Christian Scientists and not them or their children, they're heartless and have a serious lack of empathy. We need to protect people, period. Regardless of any circumstances or beliefs they or their parents might have.
All religions are dangerous to everyone, otherwise they would be called "philosophies" and they wouldn't qualify to be tax-free in a rich-corrupted land. Only State-Accepted religions get those special benefits above the rest of us groupies. In terms of danger, at any moment "the politics of heaven" will bear their "earthly members of the body/host" on our "inferior worldly politics" so they can use it to benefit themselves while obviously doing the opposite to us, given how the economy-game works. This always bears out historically.
Thanks for your work. I was raised in CS, and I can confirm that you are incredibly accurate. I was a junior at Principia Upper School, a boarding school, in 1985, when the measles outbreak occurred at the College. They made all of us go to our rooms for a special prayer session to “keep the right thought.” At Principia, there was a teacher who had an untreated cancer ON HIS FACE for the whole school year of 86-87. (I see there are former “Scientists” and Principia students here. Anyone remember Mr. Day??) He died soon after that. Back home in California I watched a devout old lady go blind of cataracts. And so many other similar stories I could tell. It was chilling to hear all about this cult, the nonsense word salad that my mom thought should be like the at we breathe. Thanks for your masterful work! I’m going to check out your other videos.
I usually don't get bothered by the sections with disclaimers but when the child cases came up it just... the detailed descriptions of cases, the injustice of it all, the fact that it was entirely preventable, and the fact that the victims were all just children and were powerless in these situations... this was the most difficult thing I've ever listened to.
Today children can say they are the opposite gender and the government will happily perform irreversible gender change surgery and sterilize the child often without the knowledge of the parents. Somehow that is not child abuse at all with entire communities being fully supportive of this practice with nobody even listening to those that have detransitioned.
My father was a Christian Scientist and I didn't get vaccinated until I was 7 after my mom left him. He was pretty crazy in many ways. I'd also like to say thank you for warning about the abuse cases because I really can't handle that stuff.
I didn't get vaccinated til I was in my 20s. A psychiatrist I was seeing (oh boy long story there), but he was so upset he contacted a pharmacy and prescribed a polio vaccine. He didn't know how to prescribe it, called the pharmacy. It was kind of amazing.
My great Aunt went blind which could have been prevented with medical treatment. Her husband died from a cold and he was fairly healthy. My Grandma lived with debilitating Rheumatoid Arthritis without treatment leaving her without the use of her hands for years. They were all with Christian Science. I remember going to their service on Easter Sunday once and you were right. My Great Aunt and her husband manly just read from the books. They all lived in Michigan. What is sad is they were the kindest, funniest and most calming people I knew. In their presence you felt at ease and had a good time due to their whit. It was so upsetting to see them suffer needlessly.
I was raised by Christian Science parents and grandparents. I believed at the time they were devout in their faith because we went to church each Sunday. My grandmother kept MBE's book handy for constant reference, we read the Christian Science monitor and my grandmother was a member of the mother church. However I was taken to the doctor regularly for check-ups, vaccines, teeth braces, and regular preventative care. No-one in my family consulted a Christian Science Practitioner instead of a doctor for illnesses. They drank coffee and my mom and grandfather smoked. With that said, my mom never did seek medical treatment when she got cancer but it was because she couldn't afford heath care. All the info in this video is totally new to me. What surprises me more is how many times MBE was married. Not one word of that was ever mentioned by anyone at church, ever. I never had a negative vibe from the church, I just thought being a Christian Scientist meant you used God's strength to help you through difficult times. When that didn't work, you went to the doctor or consulted other experts.
what country are you from? british christian scientists are required to take their children to doctors, and as such, also generally don't mind going as adults. very different vibe from american christian science. and on the other hand, in all the american churches i've been to (and at principia), it was definitely not a secret how many times she'd been married. it was in some kids book about her life too.
@@OnsenDreamscapes I live in the good ole USA where healthcare is treated as a luxury item. Maybe it was my local church in Erie, PA that failed to mention anything personal about MBE in Sunday school. Once I was old enough to attend (adult) church services I stopped going to church entirely. My mom and grandmother continued to go and many years later my mom took my son to Sunday school until he too was old enough to decide for himself. Neither my son nor I have ever been involved with the church since our Sunday school days so I never spent any effort to learn about MBE and the church outside the minimal amount I remembered.
@@Val_Emrys interesting, yeah i guess i always went to pretty strict churches. i heard the cs churches in upstate NY are pretty loosy goosy, so maybe yours was like that
Every miraculous story of people learning to walk again gets a completely different feel if you've ever had Lumbago. The first day, I could LITERALLY not move. Only after the third day and a fair amount of painkillers it all went away. But those first 48 hours felt so hopeless even if i knew it would quickly go away.
I know what you mean. I destroyed my knee years ago and have to deal with borderline crippling arthritis-I can’t even remember what having two working legs feel like. It would be real nice if Jesus could lend a bro an arm and (more particularly) a leg 😂
Echo chambers and extremist pipelines have ALWAYS existed. So dangerous to not hear the full story rather hear someone’s opinion or interpretation of said matter. Been a fan for years, beautiful work as always!
And I have to say that delving into the comment section for a video like this demonstrates to me that, instead of lunatics, serious people have serious things to say.
Strangely enough the vaccine hesitancy from church (not Christian Science) didn't make me vaccine hesitant. It was after getting the flu vaccine which made me extremely sick within three hours of getting it, and which also left me permanently exhausted and caused my joints to feel like they'd been bathed in acid any time I have a fever. If I hadn't been permanently weakened then maybe I would have recovered from mono better, which kicked off full body pain that never goes away and a long, long, list of health problems. Now people wonder why I am hesitant when it comes to vaccines and have even told me I deserve to die because I don't want to take any more.
@@winterinbloomI mean, that is a pretty unlikely story. Unless you are allergic to one of the ingredients in the vaccine, whatever happened is not likely the cause of your issues
As someone raised in Christian Science, having gone through Primary Class Instruction, and having read much of the source material you quote, I feel I do have an informed point of view. I left the church after both of my parents died (too young, in my opinion), and after my son was not responding to this form of treatment. (Son is fine now, and an adult. I credit him with helping me get out of CS) One thing I will say, and said it at the time to friends, is that I find the church's claims that "members are free to do anything" to be a shield against legal liability for themselves, placing the onus on individual parents. Persons to whom a member might turn to were advising those parents that they are legally protected to choose radical reliance. Whatever the church may say about being free... there is social pressure within congregations (or there was back when I was in the church 20 years ago) for you as a member to be radically reliant, not just for yourself but also for your children. It's kind of like shunning. I totally support removing those exemptions. My child received the "normal" vaccinations as a teenager, and I got my own in my second half century. Medicine has come a long way since 1866. Whole theories have changed. It takes a long time to come out of a belief system when you were systematically prevented from receiving contrary information. Did you know that CS parents could object to their child being exposed to education about diseases? They could in the 1950's - 1970's when I was in school. The entire concept of book banning and messing with school curricula is troubling to me, based on my own experience. While there are a few minor inaccuracies in the video, I did not consider them consequential. Example: Wednesday evening readings are composed by the First Reader of each branch church, they are not identical to the Boston church. Often they do address local concerns or happenings.
Also, the mother church might not require abstaining from medicine for medical care for general membership anymore, but as far as I know, branch churches can still require it for membership, as can CS organizations that are not officially connected to the Church for employment and enrollment (such as Principia up until I believe 2019). And I'm also not sure what the status is at the moment for keeping one's "Journal listing" if one takes medicine. Anyway, though the mother church says you're free to choose medicine, this is pretty much the same as any other cult claiming 'you're free to leave at any time'. Yes, I believe you can still be exempt from human biology and medical topics in public school, at least i was in the 90s-early 2000s. at least my parents let me take sex-ed, lol.
That story of her falling, not being able to walk, and then miraculously healing shortly after makes me think of multiple sclerosis. Something similar happened to me when I was younger, and several times since then. I've always bounced right back after too, but that's how multiple sclerosis is.
It sounds more like the neurological manifestations of some lupus presentations, when you combine it with her other symptoms. I wouldn't be shocked if she had SLE, it was often presented at the time as "just constantly ill, never getting better".
I was raised in Christian Science. I went to the summer camps, the schools, everything, so I have a pretty comprehensive view of the millenial attitude towards the religion, and since its a small community, I know pretty much everyone who's been really active in it all their lives. And most of us are definitely leaving the religion, with a few exceptions, less because of the child neglect stuff and more because of just how boring the services are and how everything is stuck in the 1800s. I haven't attended a service since I moved out from my parents' house and I'm willing to accept medical care in addition to prayer, which is great for realigning my thoughts sometimes when things get tough. I used to fear my "wavering" faith because although I'm not agnostic, faith is still really important in CS, but since I've felt like this since I turned 18, I'm comfortable with my beliefs at this point. And although I was hesitant to accept medicine at first(CS basically treats it all like poison) I have no clue how I lived without it. I wasn't sick a lot as a kid but when I was it was hard, and when I found out about basic stuff like theraflu and tums and how simple they are, I was like, why hadn't I done this before? When I had deep cleanings at the dentist, I didn't accept any numbing drugs so I felt everything. I also had class instruction to be a practitioner and visited my teacher every year for a few years with the rest of her students(theres an annual meeting of all students called "association") until I realized that she was a literal fascist (as in, called herself a 'benevolent dictator', demanded flowers from her students, and used the metaphor of a bundle of sticks being stronger than one) who ranted about how all the gay people are r-ping babies and expected all of us to quit our jobs and become full-time practitioners. Homophobia is really strong in CS even though it's not really talked about in Science and Health, it's just that a lot of CS' are conservatives. I walked out on her and never talked to her again, she then called my mom and lectured her about not forcing me to go back to association. Something that I'd like to elaborate on is when Larry King said "the rich part of town". Christian Science is, first and foremost, a religion of the upper middle class. That's why it was so big among my generation; our boomer parents could afford to send us to the private schools and summer camps and such. The reason most practitioners are women is because usually their husbands are the actual breadwinners while they do their time-consuming hobby. And people who are upper middle class are more likely to have better general lifestyles than people of the lower class, so CS thrived when the upper middle class thrived, but since the middle class is shrinking, CS is suffering as a result. In general I thought the video was pretty accurate but there were few things you got wrong or left out though: -The first reader themselves chooses readings on Wednesdays, not from the mother church, so it's probably the most engaging part of the ceremony. And the last 30 minutes of the service, the testimony portion, is usually dead silent, with maybe an old person or two standing up to ramble about how great God is. There are no other ceremonies, no weddings or funerals, only memorial services sometimes. -Principia, despite being the largest CS school, has always had ~100 people per grade. When I went in the 2000s it was probably at its biggest. Its numbers today are about as big as they've always been, although they're opening up to non-CS people now to keep them up. Many more attend the summer camps each year like Adventure Unlimited. -Idk where but I believe Mary Baker Eddy even said that we can get vaccines. I've no clue why CS's are so reluctant to get vaccinated. -Jim Henson was raised in CS and still used it 'til he died although he adopted many other religions and stopped going to churches, like a lot of boomers raised in CS did. -Many CS nowadays use medical as well as prayer, especially as more millennials become parents. -Most of CS's just view MBE as a teacher, not as a prophet on the same scale as Jesus. At least the believers in my generation.
This was was pretty close to my experience, my family was full of practitioners, and Granddad even taught in Leelanau in Michigan. Like many churches, I think the lack of ability or desire to evolve will be its ultimate demise. In the modern world, people, especially Americans do not tend to accept flexibility in religion. Granddad, who was a lifelong CS, didn't really reject medicine as much as he abstained. He was a practitioner, but with enough humility to recognize that sometimes intervention isn't bad. He lived into his 80s. Dad refused medical care until it was too late, and died at 60 from something curable. While I have no connection to CS at the moment, I do and always have appreciated the mind-over-matter mindset, and working in the social sciences, I can confirm that there is a power of positivity of mindset being beneficial. If CS would lean a little more into it, they'd probably get a bigger following
@Wayne Bart I'm a big fan of meditation and mastery of the self. It's not incompatible with science, and shouldn't be incompatible with the vast majority of religions. I think you're right and they wouldn't be dwindling if they allowed for some change.
@@couldntgetagoodname That's so interesting I've been up to Leelanau several times, and I remember seeing the CS church there and being really curious cause it was the first time I had seen one.
@@micahbonewell5994 early in his retirement, grandad worked with the CS school up there, but I think they’d reincorporated as a non-profit school at that point. I’d be curious if they have any CS pedagogy remaining
Dude, I've listened to some out there documentaries and history videos. But this made my head explode so many times. The amount of detail you put in here was truly outstanding. And this was, hands down, the most intriguing history story I've ever heard.
My grandma was a Christian scientist. Luckily both of my parents were atheist or non-denominational so I got all the usual vaccines etc. I still went to Sunday school growing up, and that scientific statement of being unlocked some deep memories. I think the only reason my parents humored my grandma and sent me was because they could tell I viewed the Bible stories the same way I viewed Harry Potter, even from a very young age.
The only thing this video tells people to do is if they hear anything religious sounding, they should immediately condemn the person and ignore anything they say. Also obey the scientists without question, even if they tell you that sterilization drugs are healthy.
@@funveeable lol what? If by "anything religious sounding" you mean "anything that sounds fantastical and for which there is strong evidence to the contrary," and if by "should immediately condemn the person and ignore anything they say" you mean "should not blindly believe anything they say. Oh and punish them if their actions directly lead to the deaths of children," then sure. That sounds about right. Obey scientists without question? Really? You must be new to the channel, because he has a bunch of videos where he covers times when scientists screwed up and how you shouldn't just blindly listen to anyone. And sterilization drugs? Where did that come from? Sounds like you're projecting
@@funveeable Someone who thinks non-religious people, and even many religious people “obey” scientists must live in a world of delusion. As if the scientific community works as preachers in a church. Utterly comical. The only job of scientists is to research their fields and write up their findings in journals that are reviewed and often challenged by peers in the same field. Their findings in the fields of human health are acted upon by doctors if the research finds it is beneficial to people and can treat disease or symptoms. No one is forced into treatments and can utterly refuse them or seek second opinions from other physicians. Your comment about sterilization drugs sounds like it is founded in some manic fairytale meant to treat others the way you’re accusing people here. Learn how reality works before airing the dirty laundry of your ignorance. No one is “obeying” scientists and most rational people only dismiss others if those others are acting anti-social to begin with, regardless of religious belief and affiliation.
I’m loving the first person historical documents that you have the audience read. It feels like I’m back in AP History classes. (No sarcasm here, I loved those classes)
I can't think of very many content creators who literally move stuff around their own house to film everyday items related to their own content. What a unique format. And the fact that you mention Mark Twain's real name in the video ONCE only to never come back to it again is badass, in a weird way
My dad is a doctor. He once told me nothing makes him sadder than a very sick or injured Christian Scientist patient coming in with something that could have been a full recovery if they hadn't spent two months praying for it to get better, and now they need to amputate
Two and a half hours? I hope RUclips pays you well for your time. Your videos are so well-researched. I can only imagine how much time goes into your videos. Thank you.
When I was taking homeschool co-op classes in Oregon City as a teen, one of my classmates was a kid whose family had been a member of the cult you mention at the end. During his family's time with the cult, he'd gone out on his bicycle without a helmet, smashed into a tree while going down a hill, and was unconscious for several days. His family and the church put him to bed and prayed for him. He was lucky--he recovered. But he could have had a skull fracture or a brain bleed, and he probably had, at minimum, a concussion. Even if what he needed was mostly rest, he also needed to see a doctor and have the injury documented--having had one concussion can exacerbate the symptoms with a future one.
My entire dad’s side of the family is Christian scientist, my dad was too for much of his life. I never believed the same as them, but I was inspired by my grandma’s sheer amount of faith she had. That’s what made it so hard to watch her suffering with diabetes near the end of her life, knowing she was praying as much as she could, as often as she could, and that healing was not coming, it was a very hard time for my family, and especially for her.
Good on you for giving people a moment to skip ahead or pause after giving a trigger warning! It's not something I personally need, but I always wonder how people who do are able to act on them because youtubers usually give them & power forward immediately. You're the first RUclipsr I've seen who's waited a moment, so good on you!
My great grandmother was a Christian Scientist. She gave my grandfather the middle name Eddy. My uncle was named a junior so he had it, too. Once when I was a kid, I asked my mom why their name was spelled that way. My dad always went by Eddie, so I knew the regular spelling. She told me they were named after the leader of the Christian Science movement, but she didn't know anything else about it. My great grandfather developed a melanoma on his neck, which could have been easily treated even back then, but my great grandmother didn't want him to see a doctor. The cancer grew until it was obvious that her religion was not helping him. Unfortunately, by the time she relented and let see a dermatologist, it was too late. It had spread onto his head and down his back, and had begun to metastisize so there was not anything they could do.
This "religious exemption law" is utterly insane. No state should ever pass such a law, allowing people to criminally neglect their own family members and deciding over their heads that they shouldn't get treatment. A family that allows their own child to die because they are so brainwashed and consumed by their cult should be charged heavily, and the whole cult should be made illegal and dissolved.
I agree that religious exemption laws, especially regarding child healthcare, are baseless and should be repealed. But I don't think the parents should be charged under those circumstances. They did what they thought was best for their child. They were wrong, of course, but should they be punished for that? If the healing method trusted by the parents of a sick child turns out to be bogus, does that mean the parents are horrible people, or that they shouldn't have children? Think of it this way: What if they went to a quack instead of a real doctor? What if this was the 1800s and there was no standard medical practice, and their doctor prescribed their sick child snake oil, or fistfuls of cocaine? Are the parents at fault then? Should they have prayed for their child's soul instead? Are they horrible people for relying on a doctor? Desperation for your child's health can turn people away from medicine as easily as it can turn people towards it. We're lucky enough today to have a trustworthy society of medical professionals, but no method is perfect. It's possible that a doctor could misdiagnose, or a nurse could make a mistake, and a child's condition could worsen. If you're a parent watching your child's health deteriorate under medical care, and a faith healer walks up to you and tells you she can heal your child if you join her cult, are you a horrible person for turning her down? What if your child dies under the hospital's watch? Are you a horrible parent then? Honestly, this is kind of an unprecedented situation, because these are people - and children - who believe their physical bodies don't exist, and suffering likewise doesn't exist. I can't really blame someone for refusing to treat their child for a nonexistent illness. I don't really know how to deal with these people on moral or ethical grounds without attacking their religion, which a court isn't supposed to do. Christian Science teaches people not only to rely on faith healing, but to convince themselves that if their faith isn't working, that they're just _making up_ that it's not working. Not only is your child's illness not real, but _your child's suffering isn't real. _*_Your child's death isn't real._* I guess you could start establishing criminal negligence by asking if they believe their child exists at all. Ultimately, the question is, are these our children? Are we responsible for someone else's child's well being? And likewise, are other people responsible for our children? What if we think those people are wrong? What if we lived in a dystopian society of Christian Scientists, and we wanted to take our child to a doctor? What if our child ends up dying anyway? Are we horrible parents for refusing Christian Scientist healing? Should we be convicted by a jury of Christian Scientists? Yeah I know, I'll have a number 3 and a frosty.
@@turbovirgin_I agree to the punishment but because I believe punishment is harmful for society, I do think the child's health and livelihood rights should be above parental rights, I think there should be better jurisdiction on cults etc in general not from a legal perspective stemming from child protection but from a point of right to education, life without harm for all, and if a organization is found to o harm the dismantle it all together. One can believe what they want but it's different from brainwashing others with threats...
Everything except the charging criminally part. Cost too much for us... Consider the loss somewhat survival of the fittest. Those people are likely so far gone they don't even know what they're doing is wrong. People who are brainwashed often do not know they're brainwashed. They believe full heartedly. That's what makes a good brainwashing. Religion in general is totally irrational and not needed by people who are capable of thinking for themselves.
I know of someone who was raised a Christian Scientist as a child until she broke her arm. Her mom would only get her treatment from a practitioner until her arm began to turn black. Luckily her mother sought proper medical attention and everything turned out okay. They were shunned from their church (but had already planned to leave after the fiasco). Scary stuff.
Wait, hold on. They called specifically to ask whether or not they could be prosecuted for not seeking medical treatment for their kid *before* calling a Christian Science practitioner? That kinda implies to me that they suspected their kid might die and wanted to make sure they wouldn't be held liable. Edit: Wait. That's what got their conviction overturned? That they called and asked _the church_ whether or not it was legal to refuse to seek medical care for their obviously sick infant? If I were on that jury, I'd see that as evidence that they expected the child to die and wanted to make sure they wouldn't face consequences for neglect and manslaughter.
After learning about the child abuse cases (that's what they are, regardless of what the law says), I am suddenly really grateful about my very tame religious upbringing.
@@bettinaknuelle9981 It really ought to be. Parents shouldn't have the legal right to neglect their kids to death regardless of the reason. A sincere religious belief is not a better reason to kill your child then is just wanting to go on a drug binge and leaving them in a hot car.
I’m watching for two reasons: 1. I love your work. 2. I want to see if you mention my hero, James Hetfield. _”Broken is the promise; betrayal! The healing hand, held back by the deepened nail. Follow the god that failed.”_ EDIT: And I got my wish at 1:49:02.
you wanna know whats ironic? this video is sponsored by henson shaving. while a completely separate henson family, jim henson (you know, the guy who created the freakin' muppets!) was raised as a christian scientist! he didn't really follow it into his adult life, but it's an interesting/random tidbit about his life.
I know his mom was a Christian Scientist, but I don't know how deep the family was into the whole thing. His first advertising job was for Wilkins Coffee, and his first Muppet (Pierre the French Rat) smoked a cigarette. Also, he seems to have had a generally positive view of Christian Science into his adult life, which could also indicate that their family practiced a more chill version of it. Some people think that Christian Science contributed to his death. He died of a bacterial infection, and if he had gone to the hospital earlier, he might have survived. However, most of his biographers and family members don't think his upbringing had anything to do with it. Not only were his children vaccinated, but Sesame Street characters have been getting flu shots since the beginning. Another fun fact: Once, during the early years of Sesame Street, Henson took acid, and saw no effect from it. Someone (I think it was Frank Oz?) said that it couldn't have worked, because Jim's mind was already as weird and creative as it was going to get.
@@radiobob1908 i happened to have my copy of brian jay jones's jim henson biography nearby, so i double checked it, and you're right! his mom's family followed a more moderate form and it says that "more serious injuries were almost always attended to by physicians". from what i read, it seemed like he was never heavily involved in christian science in his adult life, nor were jane henson and the henson kids, but he had a few personal convictions that he held onto from it. in general, he seemed not to adhere specifically to one religion and just followed his own set of spiritual beliefs. i remember the lsd story! i can't find the quote either but i'm pretty sure you're right about it being frank oz that said it. another fun and semi-related story is that jerry nelson and richard hunt, two other muppet performers, would often share a joint before and in-between filming for the muppet show. when it comes to his death, i tend to believe it was a combination of factors that led to him not seeking medical attention earlier. stress, business, and probably a feeling of "i can just tough it out", but i don't know if i think the beliefs he held onto from christian science played a huge role. either way, i just thought it was an interesting coincidence from KB (even though henson is a pretty common last name.) p.s.: i love talking about jim henson and the muppets, so this little comment interaction made my day :)
The amount of work and research you place into these videos is truly incredible. You break these topics down into an entertaining and easy to understand format that makes it so enjoyable to sit for Hours. Thank you for making this content.
I grew up Christian Science! I've never clicked on a video so quickly! I'm writing this at the very beginning of the video and cannot wait to watch it. My parents and my grandparents on both sides, all met at the youth forum.
OMG. This gives me chills. I had a colleague many years ago that was a Christian Scientist and I naively assumed "oh neat! A religious person that believes in evolution!" (Back then there were widely spread and active debates about whether teachers could teach things that were "anti-Christian" ie, dinosaurs, age of Earth, etc). We worked over night at a hotel. We chatted often as things were usually slow. He had a sleep disorder (hence the over night job) and said he had problems taking medication. Sometimes it would get really severe and he would not sleep for up to 5 DAYS. We were young, late teens/early 20s. To think that this sweet soul's entire life was destroyed (unable to go to college or have a regular job and tortured by his sleep disorder) and his parents encouraged not taking medicine (he lived at home)... it just hurts. Something like that is so treatable. 😢
Not only that, but going without sleep that long can make a person start to hallucinate or experience significant mental health events. That is so awful, poor guy.
Sleep problems make _everything worse._ I have a ridiculously hard time getting to sleep; my mind won't stop and goes into overdrive. Lots of cool ideas, but no sleep. And when you get no sleep, you are a zombie; in pain, can't focus, can't think straight, really just can't enjoy anything. Sometimes I go 3 to 4 days without sleeping until I crash out for 24 or more hours. I feel for the guy.
@@tomatochemist It's worse than that. There are extremely rare conditions of constant insomnia that are fatal. Look up Familial Fatal Insomnia if you want a good freak out.
@John McFadin I taught at an Australian Christian school until about three years ago. To be employed there, you have to sign a Statement of Faith declaring your belief in Young Earth Creationism (i.e. the universe was created in a literal six day span). I did believe that when I started working there, although definitely not by the time I left. They still use Ken Ham's material to teach apologetics.
@@EntryLevelLuxury All media with a message to impart is propaganda
Год назад+11
The things about caffeine you talked about... I have exactly the same experience. I didn't get headaches as withdrawal, but I don't think I've ever been so tired from one hour to the next when I quit. I started getting extremely vivid and super abstract dreams and the occasional nightmare. Have a slightly easier time falling asleep than I used to, but other than that, I haven't noticed any real difference. After 3-4 weeks I went back to drinking coffee, but now I'm keeping it at a single cup of coffee/tea or a single can of soda per day. The dreams basically stopped immediately after. Also I would never have you on in the background. I do, however, fall asleep occasionally 😂
Halfway through the video I realized that this is the religion my god mother was a part of. This was in Ukraine more than a decade ago. She developed breast cancer and refused to treat it instead thinking she could pray it away. She ended up dying. After she died her husband left and remarried leaving her 10 year old son "not his" with the boys grandmother that could barely survive off her own pension by herself.
Okay you better do a 100% serious lore dump video one of these days. Even if it's posted on April 1st I genuinely have been wanting to know the lore behind all the characters.
Those child cases are just harrowing. I can't picture myself being a dad to some kid and deciding not to do anything when i see them dying of something that can be preventable.
I regularly spend Sundays in the Christian Science Plaza, but only after I get out of my Catholic mass! Its a nice area to pace around while calling my family. Glad I watched this video, as I only had vague knowledge of the group before hand
I was raised in Christian Science and read God’s Perfect Child last year. Now I have a more digestible resource to share with curious people (and my therapist) thanks to the time and effort you put into making this a video. You are helping many former Christian Scientists by exposing what it really is and its broader impact on American society. Thank you.
I love watching your channel as, being European, I learn so much about the US history and culture, I have to say that I’m astonished learning how many all-American-born religions you got there and how influential they are on policy making, hence Americans’ life. I’m from a country, Italy, where the catholic religion has deeply influenced our culture, mindset and laws over the last two millennia and we are behind in some civil rights compared to the other Western European countries (especially in terms of sexual-orientation and gender discrimination), however now I feel like we’ve actually been lucky that the catholic religion has been so strong, that none of these cult-like religions have ever had any influence in our society. It seems like that Italy, that is the land of the catholic religion, is way more secular than the US!
Growing up as a catholic(ex catholic here) in Northern Michigan in the usa it's astonishing how other Christian denominations show how moderate catholicism is compared to them. Not that there aren't a few people are a little to religiously dedicated.
@@lesinge8868 art and literature have different extent of religious influence. Art was very influenced by the catholic religion as the richest and most influential State in the Italian Peninsula for more then a millennium was the Vatican State which was commissioning a lot of work of arts, so yes many where religious in nature, but there are also many others which were not and their were commissioned by dukes and princesses of the other states that exerted in Italy in the last millennium and a half (such as the Gioconda, the David [that actually was Mercury, originally], the School of Athens, Psyche Revived by Cupid's Kiss). I’m terms of literature, I’ve to say that the religious theme is minor in the Italian literature history, I guess abroad the Dante’s Divina Commedia is very famous but be also written La Vita Nova that is about love. And in the Italian literature we consider as our most relevant writers: Manzoni, Pascoli, Leopardi, Verga, Foscolo, Boccaccio (just to name a few wish are alder than three century ago) and neither of than have written work of literature religious in nature. I guess the fact we have had the Vatican State influencing politically the Italian peninsula and also preventing the Italian unification, made us pretty critique of the religious power especially through literature. 😊(on one of Verga’s novel [I Malavoglia] the main characters have a boat called “providence” and it sinks, symbolising that you are just on your own in life, he was pretty pessimistic 😅) Ps: I hope I didn’t do too many English mistakes in my comment 😊
@@jacoposcarabello That makes sense actually. Yeah the Divine Comedy is the most famous Italian book abroad, but learning about Alighieri’s other works and the other famous authors within Italy was pretty interesting.
My ex-girlfriend’s dad was raised a Christian Scientist. He watched a close family friend die of diabetes-induced keto acidosis (completely preventable at the time). He left the religion shortly after.
Shave like a sir! Visit hensonshaving.com/knowingbetter to get your Henson AL13!
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It warms my heart to see Safety Razors making a comeback.
I can't believe how many of the stubbly youtubers are pushing these at the moment. It's not a bad thing in itself, but back when I was an occasional shaver, there were disposable (black) Bic razors with a metal guard and only one blade that worked perfectly no matter how long the hair. They out-performed "safety razors" and other disposable razors not in the blade support (which is the usp in your script, matching other scripts I've seen read), but actually it's the skin guard that counts (in my experience)- plastic disposables have struts under the blades, whick snag hairs and get blocked pretty fast (many safety razors have similar obstructions) the black bics had a smooth stiff wire with no supports within the blade length, so kept the skin at the right distance and angle for efficient cutting of hair without pulling skin in for cutting, and the hair that had been cut didn't get in the ways of that dynamic either (yhis might be the case with the ones you're pushing too, but the main focus seems to be on "aerospace" and gap above the blade in your presentation (nice graphics btw👍) rather than "hairospace", and gap below the blade😉
Wow the parallels between some of Christian Science also sound very very Gnostic. Its a new dualist philosophy. Interesting
Amazing video. I can't financially justify a Patreon right now but I'll definitely subscribe once I can
I really hope you make an April Fool's baking video on your Alt channel: Knowing Batter!
US Army veteran growing into a scholar of religion is so the best RUclipsr character arc
We need an arc where his father is eaten and he needs to avenge him
He needs to keep studying corporate evil so he can complete his training to become a radical communist.
@@nerdwisdomyo9563 Alright, I guess I'll eat somebody.
If I gotta take one for the team so be it.
...so where do I eat?!
@@jaymevosburgh3660 it’s all coming together
@@nerdwisdomyo9563 or an arc where he eats his father and takes revenge against the world..
Christian Science + Crohn’s Disease nearly killed me when I was 16. I was dying on my parents’ couch for months, was taken to a Christian Science nursing facility called Broadview (f**king horrific there). When they realized I was 24 hours from death because of the black mold growing in my open wounds, I was luckily taken to an actual ER. I was so afraid to be taken there. I was in the hospital for a month, my hair fell out from starvation, I am still covered in scars from this time in my life. I had to relearn to walk when I left I had lost so much muscle. I just started EMDR to try to help my PTSD. I have endless horrific stories about my family and other’s … one includes a friend’s grandmother losing her arm from gangrene, hiding it under the bed, and wearing a shawl to hide the wound. I am so appreciative that you made this video to get the word out. I’m yearning for healing from what this church did to my family and me - and learning so many details here I didn’t know is incredible and helpful and thank you thank you thank you ❤❤❤
wow! that is nuts Sara
There is a LOT of social pressure. ONe thing the video didn't talk about is that most Christian Scientists--all their social contacts are too. So leaving is definitely hard and scary. You have tons of courage. And thanks for sharing your story.
I'm speechless. I wish you and yours well.
That story about the gangrenous arm is as horrific as yours, if not more! I have difficulty believing it could possibly occur, despite believing you entirely.
that's horrifying, holy shit. I'm so sorry and I wish you the best possible future you could have.
My dad was born and raised by devout Christian Scientist parents. Once he moved away from home his 'act of rebellion' was FULLY embracing all doctors and medicine, which lengthened his life since he had cancer 3 times before dying.
WOW! that's so cool!
That is some persistent cancer ♋🦀. Good thing he had modern medicine.
@@UniDocs_Mahapushpa_Cyavana It was actually three different kinds too. First Non-Hodgkin's Lymphoma, then Melanoma, then Pancreas cancer. But he survived almost 5 years with pancreas cancer (longer than any pancreas cancer patients his oncologist ever had) all because one brand of chemo worked really well on just 'stopping' the spread though not actively killing the cancer. But eventually the chemo was damaging his heart because it wasn't ever supposed to be used for more than a couple years. Most pancreas cancer patients didn't live long enough to be in his situation with it. But yeah I'm so glad modern science allowed me to have at least 23 more years with my dad that I wouldn't have had if the Non-Hodgkins (or Christian Science) had gotten him in the first round.
What an amazing man.
Surviving cancer once is beyond impressive. Your dad must’ve been an absolute chad
as soon as you mentioned fruity breath my heart dropped. i wasn’t diagnosed with diabetes until i was 10 because no one took my pain seriously, and the months leading up to my hospitalization were pure agony. the doctors said i was very lucky to have survived as long as i did untreated. My heart breaks for Ian because i understand not only the fear but also the pain :(
I have a friend who nearly died as a kid. C of C Science parents, thought he was trying to get out of chores, and he was just getting weaker and weaker. He'd been feeling awful for close to a year I think. I don't remember where his teacher came from since he was homeschooled, maybe it was a tutor or a teacher for a small group class, something? anyway he had a teacher who told him he could call her if he needed anything. I'm guessing she didn't mean this...
He dragged himself up the road to the gas station, called the paramedics, and gave them her name so his parents wouldn't be called and he could get well. He said he thought it would just be like an overnight thing, they'd give him some magic medicine and he could go home like he'd run away, and he would only get in trouble for being gone. In the ER they discovered he had leukemia, quite advanced. He says they were pretty frank that his survival likelihood was quite low even with treatment.
He pretty much had to fight with the state of Arkansas on his own to get away from his parents and get the treatment he needed to live. His teacher helped as much as she could, but couldn't do much more than be supportive, visit, etc, which is much more than his parents did. I know she was a part of him getting free of them, and since he was returned to them he needed a lot of support. They made it very clear that if he pursued any treatment other than faith, he was excommunicated and no longer their son regardless of what the courts said (which I imagine was a big part of why he won out eventually). He was too young to be an emancipated minor (like 9, 10) so he wound up in a group home initially rather than foster care. His parents stuck by what they said, the last time he saw them was in court. He did eventually wind up in a great foster home with people whom he refers to as his parents, so he did find people who cared for and still love him like children should be cared for and loved. And obviously I met him as an adult, so he survived, and he will NEVER say "thank God!" about it because "that motherfucker was just fine with letting me die."
Wow! He was his own hero.
@@StevenBanks123 I know! It's always struck me as such an awfully tragic story, that's obviously why it's stuck with me for so long. And that young! I was dealing with some rough things I shouldn't have had to contend with at that age too, but I *CERTAINLY* wasn't fighting in court to *make* the state take me *away* from my family so that I wouldn't *die* of the cancer my parents were refusing to treat because of the religion I'd spent my *entire* *brief* *life* cocooned within. What an awful thing to have to do at that age, leave practically everyone and everything you've ever known because you want to live. Some people *would* rather die than that.
I've always thought it seemed like the state put him in a group home kind of out of spite, too, like "You want to be in The System? Welcome to The System! Hope you're still happy with being alive by the time they're through with you, if you even do survive!"
@Jackamomo
None of that is Christian Science. Christian Science is about love. Suffering is not love.
@@amazingjane2703 Dude...I'm sorry to be the first one to tell you this (apparently), but...there has been rather a LOT of suffering inspired by, justified by, and/or perpetrated in the name of EVERY denomination of Christianity. You're really in for quite a surprise when you hear about some of the stuff the Catholics have been up to for, like, forever.
And these parents seem to have thought that a little bit of human suffering was what was necessary for their sick-as-hell kid to go to Heaven. And he was on board with his faith and his church and family and life there in until he was actively dying. He said one of the hardest parts of all of it was having his family and the denomination of the church he was raised in turn against him and very clearly explain exactly why he would be going to hell for not trusting that God was doing the right thing. So, your message I think might be better addressed to some douchey religious nuts in Northwest Arkansas. But I think if they're willing to watch a child slowly die in pain, they don't much care what you think their religious beliefs SHOULD be.
Over the course of this channel's existence you've gone from 10-20 minute videos to a longer than a full feature length film lol. Good work
Higher quality and more enjoyable than many feature length documentaries aswell!
I.... I never miss a video. Love this channel. There have been instances where I've watched his long videos at least 5 times, each.
Very educational content
@Jacob what's with the goofy ass ellipses bro
@@doodleBurgers idk wym
absolutely floored at how "animal magnetism" is basically their way of speaking about a "vibe check". that's so incredible.
lmfao, facts. "crystal mommy, take me back!"
"sry bbs, you failed the vibe check and your LITERALLY suffocating me =cough, cough, pout="
Vibe is a garbage catchall term as well. No excuses for contrmporary pseudo spiritualists
"Animal Magnetism" is the same as _ki/chi/qi/prana._ Thus why it sounds just like The Force. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Mesmer read some translations of Chinese or Japanese books when he formulated his ideas.
"Animal electricity", or the effect of electricity on animals (e.g. muscle twitching) was known about not long after the battery was invented, so the idea that there might have also been "animal magnetism" wasn't too farfetched at the time.
@@kaing5074 Just replace the world vibe with mood, or feeling.
Vibe check is someone checking what your current mood, or feeling is.
So "animal magnetism" is not a vibe check.
Metallica’s song “The God That Failed” is based on the fact that singer James Hetfield’s mother held onto her beliefs up until her excruciating pain from cancer.
He says that in the video
I grew up a Christian Scientist. Growing up in a cult is wild in retrospect. You're entirely correct, especially on how boring church services are. My church in California was... maybe less radical, save for a few members. My sister and I were vaccinated and treated... mostly. My childhood best-friend's dad died of cancer. Our Sunday School teacher's wife had a miscarriage. I had a cyst at the base of my spine go untreated for two years. I walked with a limp and was in constant pain. It took major surgery at age 14 and months of painful recovery. The breaking point, when I was 15, was another Sunday School teacher saying "they think man is made of dust; they don't even know what causes the common cold". I shouted "the rhinovirus" and stormed out. A different teacher came to console me and we talked about my friend's dad. He confided my friend's dad turned to medicine just before he died, and implied that was why he died. Growing up in a cult is wild.
That’s fucked beyond belief
I don't know about a cult, but they certainly are a quirky bunch of very devout people. That said, maybe the circles you were around were different than mine. My family was in the Church since MBE's time, and when I said, "not for me," they didn't shun or reject me. I mean my father and grandfather were practitioners, and everything.
@@couldntgetagoodname They're all perfectly nice people, but being nice doesn't make up for causing harm. Failing to act makes them responsible. Just because they're not isolationist doesn't mean they're not a cult.
@@RobertN734 the isolation doesn’t make a cult either, it’s the veneration of an individual or object. It’s like what KB had mentioned in this and other video, it’s the second in command. If your religion or movement dies with you, then you have yourself a cult (think Jim Jones). Plenty of non-cults have plenty of things objectionable and dangerous. One of my general turn offs with a wide variety of Christian sects is the whole “spare the rod, spoil the child” line
@@couldntgetagoodnametechnically any small religion with views out of step with the surrounding culture and established religions can be described as a cult. Another term is New Religious Movement, which seeks to destigmatize younger religions and remove the implication that they are by nature harmful.
I didn't get an education, medical help, was beaten, under fed, and generally neglected. Nothing happened when CPS was called. I remember the worker telling me the situation was complicated because we were religious when I asked her to help my siblings and I somehow.
You shouldn't be able to get away with abuse to minors for your religious reasons...
Side note: I got my GED then college, my own family.. it was very hard but my life is good now besides the struggle with nightmares and random scary flashbacks. I've been having issues finding help that my insurance covers because I cant afford it out of pocket.
How are your siblings doing now?
@@calamityjean1525 We all have our own families so pretty good. :) I've kind of figured life out.
My parents left the church and got divorced so I forgave them for myself a decade after. I see them a few times a year now. I actually got an apology from my dad
@Lost pelican Oh yeah. Christianity always gets a pass. 'Freedom of religion' or 'religious liberty' in the US is all just code for Christian privilege and Christian right to oppress others.
Sounds like today's republicans and yesterday's democrats pre civil rights.
It’s insanity the US has these types of idiotic laws. In a common sense country, “religious liberties” END the second the rights or wellbeing of a person are in jeopardy. Fucking lunacy
Maybe most people haven't heard of these people, but I sure have. My grandma's stepmother was one, and told her when she had a miscarriage that it was her fault for having sinful thoughts. We've held the grudge beyond my grandma's lifespan.
That's vile behavior. There's a large church of Christ scientist right by my house and I've grown up around them. Stuffy, miserable group.
That’s just cruel.
Wwwwowwww. That's... Pure evil.
It's so hilarious that your doctor and Discord both agreed to be in on the Christian Science Challenge
His doctor was like "aha! Zah perrfekt peishunt four my uber experiment!!" Lol
@@drakep.5857
Where the fawk is that doctor from?
Auster-manry-eatherland-gium
Doctor knew he was a cafine addict, probably the only way to prove it.
One of my childhood friends grew up going to a Christian Science. One of his friends from the church had a very treatable form of cancer, but because of her family's attachment to the church they refused to seek help and she died at the age of 12. He has been scarred by it and disillusioned by all faiths, because of it, and he grew up unvaccinated, but now he's finally building up the courage to get vaccinated.
family guy is such a funny show man
@@PakBallandSami man what the fuck
@@anxofmyown i mean can you blame me family guy is such a great show that it even cured my son's life threatening disease,
@@PakBallandSami family guy is mid at best, king of the hill is _actually_ funny
I had a classmate who was of a similar faith. I'm not entirely sure what, as I'd never heard about "Christian Science" but they refused all medical treatment or prevention. I made him cry one day by calling those type of religious people morons (not knowing his religion). Felt like an asshole everytime I saw him later, until one day he disappeared. Turns out he died of the regular flu. Witholding medicine from one's own children is disgusting.
My mother hated Christian Science, the religion she grew up in. Her father got an infection (I forget what kind) and died because of his faith. She raised us as Jehovah's Witnesses. From one cult to another☹️
Shieeeet. Lighting Strucked twice at the same place
🤔
So she hated christian science because her father died of untreated infection but she had no problem with the refusal of blood transfusions?
Strange isn't it? But it seemed perfectly reasonable to us kids as well because of the clever ways they indoctrinated us. It wasn't until I left I discovered they also believed vaccines were sinful abominations up until the 50's. Or before. I forget. There's a lot of history the Governing Body doesn't want JWs to know. But yeah, we're The Truth, it's the other religions that are crazy!
@@calebr7199 at the very least it's better than refusing basically EVERYTHING aside from broken bones.
My grandpa had a boss who was a Christian Scientist when my mom was young. According to my mom, the boss’s wife had breast cancer which she couldn’t get treatment for, and while she was dying of cancer, he was having an affair with a subordinate. My grandpa quit with no other job lined up because it made him so sick working for someone like that
Your grandpa was definitely a good guy. Hopefully he found another job quickly.
huge respect to your grandpa
Bet the boss prayed hard enough to correct the problem of cheating. Maybe even told the other "Christian Scientists" about it, too.
Not to be that guy, but I have abused alcohol, don't know if I have smoked weed. I have done a couple of substances. My benzo addiction had the worst with drawls that I have ever dealt with. I know you're talking about cancer, and I'm an addict. If hellish drugs like benzos are allowed, and are acceptable long term treatment. I don't blame anyone for choosing scam over science backed up even though academia is a joke these days. I take care of my health so I don't have to take medication in the future.
@@Skoopyghost all doctors recommend practicing a healthy lifestyle. There are of course problems with the industry though.
When I was a child I was very curious about the Christian Science church in my town. I thought it'd be a neat place with pictures of Jesus looking through a microscope. My father, a biology teacher, said, "It's not THAT kind of science." He was right. Years later I actually got to go inside and was quite disappointed. Not a test tube or microscope in sight.
When insulin was discovered in 1922, the life expectancy of a diabetic went from 12 months from diagnosis to 12 years from diagnosis. That was 15 years before Ashley died in 1937. Insulin wasn't that new and it was proven effective. I'm horrified.
Edit: With the last story, as soon as you mentioned the fruity breath, I knew it was diabetes. God. When I was diagnosed I had fruity breath, and I had already been sick for weeks. But not with a stomach ache. When I was disgarged from the hospital, my blood sugar was still high, and I was told that if I had a stomach ache, I should return to the hospital *immediately*.
You have no idea how many people were killed in the development of insulin. Everything is experimental and the people who took the insulin prototypes were morbidly obese and volunteered for it. The people who were just a little chubby didn't take it because they didn't need it. Modern science is all about accepting what the majority of scientists say and you're not allowed to question it.
How many people die in the development of insulin ? And those who take insulin have diabetes so i dont get why "people who were little chubby didn't take it because they didn't it" regardless of how 'fat' they are if they are diabetic they need it.
My experience was very different.
I had an insane unquenchable thirst. I finally went in when I drank 48 bottles of water in 24 hours. I peed every 15 minutes and could NOT sleep because I had to pee so bad. And my thirst was so unquenchable. I finally googled unquenchable thirst and non stop pee and seen it was a symptom of keto acidosis. My blood sugar was at 700. My A1C was 15.1.
My last A1C test I was at 5.1.
But I still feel depressed occasionally. Diabetes is huge. I know they say you can reverse it. But I know it can't be cured. I am taking it well now. But occasionally I get depressed. The bland foods. The daily non stop water. It makes me upset some days. But thanks to my love of flavor I paid the price. Over indulged!
@@neko-cat1954 you might want to rethink that question. You were sure to die before insulin. As it was being developed, you had a hope of living longer. Once developed and tested, it added decades to the lives of diabetics.
@@jasongoodburn-moffitt8396 edit:spelling
ahh i think you might be confuse. I am questioning the replies that present the 'development' of insulin in negative life by saying it has cause a lot of death and i want to know if this is true because i cant find the source . Not before the development. And the reply that i was asking the questioning to, has been deleted .
I thought I could handle the child abuse stories but Robyn Twitchell's case absolutely shook me to my core
Yeah that’s really fair
Honestly I should probably be more shaken up then I am, my heart goes out to people who die in truly awful ways
Same, honestly.
The fact that his parents conviction was overturned is sickening, As well as the cases that went unprosecuted. Wild to think that the people who participate in this kind of abuse are around us.
“I know I’m a good mother and no judge or jury can convince me otherwise…”
@@paintdrinker455 I don't read much into that, nor dwell on it either. There's always messed up people who can forgive themselves of everything bad they do and never find any fault in themselves. They're called narcissists, and trying to get them to reflect on the failures of their own actions is pointless. If they are a threat to others, or their own children, then it's up to society and the law to judge them and intervene if necessary, regardless of whether they feel remorseful, guilty, or even consider themselves at-fault for the horrendous abuse and neglect.
Christian Science should just rename themselves as the “Church of Thoughts and Prayers.” Learning about those children’s deaths made me visibly upset. Thank you so much for making a video about this, I learned so much!
It’s literally the church of thoughts and prayers! I laughed so loud. You have no idea how true this was being in the organization and not understanding any of it at all 😅
No truer words have been spoken. I really wish it could be renamed this. The word Science is so misleading and ironic.
I was raised in Christian Science from an “egg”. :) My father was not a member. If any illness did not show improvement, he demanded we be taken to a doctor. Thank goodness! I can’t imagine having 2 CS parents.
One of the most damaging aspects of this cult is the emotional abuse that is experienced. Not only is sickness “unreal” , but also bad feelings. So if I was feeling scared or homesick or any other “bad” emotion I was told to “know the truth” because none of what I was feeling was real. If that doesn’t do a number on a person’s emotional development I don’t know what will. I finally was able to leave Christian Science at about age 41 after my mother passed away. I am so angry at Mary Baker Eddy for all of the bullsh*t she pushed. I still consider myself spiritual but my prayers are so tainted with all the crazy quotes I was indoctrinated with I hate it! When you quoted the Scientific Statement of Being my brain went into auto mode. During my childhood I was sent to Christian Science overnight camp, boarding school and Sunday School up to the age of 18. Talk about indoctrination! I attended the Daycroft School where the polio outbreak took place. I actually met one of the students who became partially paralyzed. During my stay, I caught pink eye. Needless to say prayer did nothing. It became so bad I had to go home. When my dad took me to the doctor he said in all his years he had never seen such a bad case. He applied a thick ointment. The next day my eyes were so much better I thought a miracle had occurred. The first time I took Advil for a headache, I just about cried with relief. I had never in all the years I was a practicing member experienced a single healing of any physical problem. I was told I wasn’t doing it correctly. That is messed up!! Thank you for all your research and hard work!!
yes, that is a good point about the emotional abuse from any 'bad' emotion (or event) being dismissed as unreal, especially bad for child cognitive development. both of my parents were CS and ironically all I can think is "There but for the grace of God go I" when I hear about these child death cases. I didn't have any major illnesses or accidents as a kid luckily, but if I did, would I have had the same fate? My parents surely never thought to take me to a doctor or give me otc medicine. Some of my family members went to daycroft too. from what one of them said, it seems sexual abuse (between students) was also a problem, as it was at Principia where I attended (there's been 1 criminal case and a few civil suits but those just scratch the surface).
I’m an atheist and couldn’t be happier. Don’t have to put up w this bs or struggle with conflicting thoughts. FYI waters warm…
I am so, so sorry. ❤
I cannot tell you how happy this makes me as an ex-christian scientist. I was born into the religion, though my Dad was agnostic. My Mom had to face tons of abuse from christian science as a kid. I wasn’t given any vaccinations until I was 12, when we left the cult and searched for our own beliefs.
More videos, documentaries, books, and sources on this topic need to exist. Christian Science has a mountain of dirty laundry hidden in the closet that people need to know about, because they DO put lives at risk, both non-CS lives and lives of CS children. The fact that they have exemptions from law exclusively for them is batshit insane.
Side note, if you (anyone reading this) haven’t already, please read Father Mother God by Lucia Greenhouse. It’s about the author’s life as a Christian Scientist and her eventual escape from the religion, detailing all kinds of shit she lived through. Stuff about how as a teenager, she was already used to other kids mentioning CS as “well I had an aunt/neighbor/whoever who was a christian scientist that died of [insert preventable disease here].” Also her story about coming out to her Dad for needing glasses. Remember, mortal senses are not real, and trying to treat them with something like glasses gives the devil power. It is wild the shit christian scientists go through.
I know this comment is long winded, but I mean this 1000 times over: thank you for making this video. I genuinely cannot express this enough. Thank you for researching it so thoroughly to not miss a single important detail about it.
That is so Fd up. Thank you for sharing
I've worn glasses for 26 years. I can't fathom not being able to have them.
Same sentiment here
I an ex-CS too. Fathermothergod is an incredible book that brutally conveys the guilt, shame, and suffering inflicted by these beliefs. I wish my friends and family that are still attached to CS (directly or indirectly from being raised in it) would wake up to how full of shit it is.
almost like two sides same coin? so the "Antivax" is protected no taxes and is exempt and vaccine manufactures are ALSO excempt so they are just two sides of the same coin?
I grew up down the street from a church of christian science, I never thought twice about it!
In high school i lived right behind a Christian Science retirement community
Heya Atlas Pro! Big fan, keep doing what you're doing!
That's a healing!
This channel has been blessed.
@@seanbeadles7421that’s a nice way of saying a Christian scientist grave yard
This makes so much of my early childhood make sense. Growing up, I had a next-door neighbor who was an older woman who would babysit me pretty often and I really liked spending time with her, but when I was around five I realized I hadn't been to her house in a while. My parents explained that she was sick, and an bacterial infection had almost completely spread through her heart. I didn't understand what this meant, and I figured she would go to the hospital and come back after a few months. She never came back.
I found out later when we were invited to the funeral that the infection started as something pretty mild that she refused antibacterial meds for. It got worse and worse until the infection got to her heart, and she once again refused medication on religious grounds. She said that she would trust in God's plan for her, whether that meant living or dying. I found out many years later that my parents wouldn't let me see her in the hospital because when she wasn't verbally abusing staff, she was thrashing around and crying out in pain.
None of my grandparents lived close by, so she was Grandma to me when I was little. She died in her mid-fifties from an entirely avoidable illness.
Update: I texted my mother about this, and she mentioned that our neighbor spent most of her treatment in a nursing home. She only spent her last few days in a nearby hospital. The infection had broken off pieces of her heart that were now circulating in her bloodstream, and her son was able to insist on giving her pain management because she was no longer conscious enough to make medical decisions.
@@lindenshepherd6085 that’s awful
I'm sorry you had to lose someone important to you like that :(
@@aazhie I still miss her and I wish my parents or one of her friends had pushed her to get treatment, but I'm glad that her children didn't follow in her beliefs and I hope she had some peace in her last hours.
She was the first person to teach me about yarn crafting, which has become my special interest and is a huge part of my life, so I'll always be grateful that I got to spend my formative years with her. She was also careful not to push her beliefs on to me, something that not all of my caretakers did when they learned my family wasn't Christian.
Sad. :(
my grandfather was raised in a christian science household, he was 1 of 18 children (some died in early childhood, 13 lived to adulthood) and both he and his favorite cousin got an appendicitis, the family prayed over the two of them but she died. my grandfather was the second to last kid born and his younger brother was born premature, since they couldn't take him to the hospital the sisters of the family put him in the oven as an incubator and saved his life. as my grandfather grew up he loved going to drug stores and buying random first aid supplies to have around the house, multiple of his brothers and sisters went on to be doctors, nurses, or dentists.
wow, what horrible circumstances and clever thinking
So the oven thing actually has worked IRL? I always thought that was a meme.
@@MrGksarathy he was just a little undercooked, he needed another 20 minutes
I always crack when someone says "I feel like Anne Frank in Nazi Germany"
that is NEVER done by someone who isn't completely delusional
The people who _actually_ feel like Anne Frank in Nazi Germany are too terrified to speak up about it, in case they're heard. That's a big part of why Anne Frank's experience was distinct from her contemporaries. (Also the fact that her life was documented.)
idunno, the terror and agony was probably up there
Me too, probably for different reasons
@@timothymcleanpeople still say Anne Frank's diary is fake cause there are different kinds of inks. As if she couldn't use multiple pens. People are retarded
She's probably not even wrong in asserting that her daughter felt that way... Though towards what _her parents_ were putting her through, not towards her hospital admission. That poor girl had to lay there immobilized for months, in terrible pain as the cancer spread through her body, her parents refusing to get her genuine help.
While my family has never been Christain Scientists, most of them are devout christains. My oldest sister has two children now and refuses to vaccinate them and is very into "homeopathic remedies". Even if christain science as a religion itself is on a decline, your outro was spot on about the remaining influence of christain science on culture and policy. She openly talked to me about using these religious exemptions to avoid having her children vaccinated.
There's a certain branch of Christianity that seems to be more prone to falling for those kinds of alternative medicines, as well as MLMs and other scams. I'm not totally sure what you'd call them, if it's Evangelical, or Pentecostal, I'm not sure, but I know some like that. I kind of see it a couple of different ways.
One is people being told how to think and what should and should not be questioned, that things were better before, and that older is somehow better (I was raised in a Christian environment that welcomed even the hardest of questions, and that's one of the only reasons I stayed). The other is that most people have a major tendency towards confirmation bias.
Anyone who's taken high school or first year university science credits will know that the goal of a scientific study should be framed as trying to prove yourself wrong or discover something new, not prove yourself right. People look for connections all the time, and without thousands of people to study all those individual things, it's easy to jump to conclusions based on personal belief or even fairytales you've been told. I know that's a big issue with relationships, kids being told these ideals and fantasy love stories, and even misleading ideas that lead a lot of girls especially to put up with a lot of things they shouldn't when trying to figure out what a relationship is. I like seeking out other perspectives and looking at what different people say about certain things, as long as it has some sort of solid background.
My mom grew up in the age of tuberculosis and pre-smallpox eradication. She made my siblings and I were vaccinated for everything. I feel sorry for her kids. There are many diseases that they can come down with that cause unnecessary suffering and put others at risk. Hopefully those kids can come to terms with her irrational and reckless beliefs and leave her toxicity behind when they become adults.
That fact that some Christians just don't believe in medicine makes me sad Ive never heard anything referring to not doing that so I don understand why some people do
I am a vaccine injured adult. There are so many vaccine injured children and adults. I know of many.
womp womp @@kathyyoung3779
I went through a Metallica phase as a teenager, and it really opened my eyes, hearing about the origins of 'The God That Failed'. As a teenager, I assumed it was the usual heavy metal edgelord-ism, and not much more than that. (I've always liked the way the music sounds, but a lot of the stuff that comes with it is hard to take seriously. Even as a teenager, I rolled my eyes at a lot of it.) But you can HEAR the distain and the rage in that song, and knowing now where those feelings come from, I'm going to go back and re-listen to it.
My grandfather on my dad’s side who I had never met was a huge Christian scientist during his time. However this proved to be fatal to him once he had gotten cancer. About 7-8 months before he died, he had passed out due to the amount of pain that he was holding in. At the time he had no idea what was happening to him but he knew it wasn’t good. My Dad and Aunt who were also a Christian scientists at the time, eventually began noticing that he began looking visually more uncomfortable after his event and went against their usual instincts and began encouraging him to go see a doctor. However, he refused many times. It eventually got to the point where they both had to yell at him to get him to go. Once he went to see one, it was already too late. The cancer had spread everywhere and he had 3 months to live. During his final few weeks in the hospital, he tried to refuse what medicine he could, even morphine. He was in so much pain up to the last moments in his life because he so strongly believed that at any moment in time. He would be healed and be good as new. He died at the age of 55.
That’s a horrible way to go. I’m so sorry for your family.
I'm so very sorry for your loss.
This is like the parable of the drowning man, otherwise known as “two boats and a helicopter”
“God, I believed you would save me, why would you let me die?”
“Well, I sent you Doctors who knew how to cure you - and I sent your family to make you go to the doctor.”
@@tomatochemist Thank you I appreciate it.
@@pantaleimona Thank you I appreciate it.
My step-grandma is a Christian Science member, and her behavior towards my grandpa while he was dying makes so much sense now. My grandpa was crying in pain and she was just so flippant about the whole thing, so much so that my mom thought she had poisoned him to cape his death.
To cape?
This channel just refuses to peak, every single season is a step up from the last. Absolutely phenomenal stuff.
Lol, this video is a whole season!
My parents became Christian Scientists specifically to avoid vaccinating my older sibling and myself. That was when I was in middle school and it was horrible. Even though they don't call themselves that anymore and are more open to going for real medical care, they're still horribly misguided by it's ideology. My blind faith that my parents knew what was best ended when I was sick with (what I assume was) the flu or a bad cold. They also believed in Jim Humble's MMS "cure" which I had already refused to trust.
Instead of taking me to a doctor, they decided to put MMS in my drink with breakfast. I threw up until I was too exhausted to do anything but pass out. When I woke up, my mom gave me soup that she added MMS to that my dad had made... with MMS. I overheard them in the kitchen proudly saying that they had snuck it in to each other before they started arguing about the overdosing but I was already throwing up again. I felt worst the next day but I forced myself to go to school so I wouldn't have to go through that again.
I was able to get fully vaccinated at the end of high school, because pulling the Christian Scientist card didn't work for a program I was accepted into.
I had no idea what MMS was so I googled it first result miracle cure buy here, second result wikipedia what was like the third line in Wikipedia it is a branded version of chlorine dioxide and it can induce vomiting diarrhea flu symptoms and death. I sincerely apologize that people like that exist on this planet.
Now THIS is something that effected me growing up. Parents would barely take us to the doctor unless required by school or sports. Its still hard for me to just go to the doctor. Like i just forget thats an option i have. But i know alot of people have had it worse.
My grandfather grew up in this church. He became a staunch atheist for most of his life, and yet he was *still* somewhat avoidant of getting professional medical care, until his cancer made it too apparent of a need.
Your parents probably did you a favor.
Woah
If you are American your parents medical avoidance could also be because of the cost.
@Praisethesunson Well we all know that. But no one in this comment was taking about health care costs.
I usually describe my childhood in Christian Science as, "I was raised in a well-meaning faith-healing cult," and there are inevitably a lot of follow up questions, especially if I go into any detail about how the benevolent medical neglect derailed my life. It's the expedient way to describe it, if slightly inaccurate. I'm delighted I'll have a link to point people at if they want to know better (ba-dum-dum).
I was raised in it too, I know people whom the neglect permanently affected. Crazy how parents ignored stuff right in front of them when they could've easily prayed while seeking medical care.
Mind if i ask a question? I'm curious how literal wounds are dealt with , or does the belief in everything being psychosomatic just for unseem injury and ilness?
@@meaganbritainy3868 short version is, "it depends". My grandfather was a Christian Scientist, and served in Germany in WW2. He got shot once, and clipped by a shell on another occasion. He was happy to get treatment. Some are more mellow, Granddad's approach to it was like KB's 30-day challenge. My Dad, quite different. he died of late stage cancer because he put treatment off.
I don't know if cult is a apt term. They are a devout bunch, but they will let you join and leave. I mean, you left, were you shunned or targeted like a Scientologist might be? I left, and I still have great relations with people and family I knew from the church. Doesn't feel cult-y
Cults don't always keep people in with acts like shunning or targeting. It can just be about demonizing the outside world so much that people are afraid to leave. Even if the church will do nothing to prosecute those who do.
That mother who watched her child die of cancer and then had the audacity to liken medical care to Nazi concentration camps... Hearing her insist she's a good mother while surrounded by paper cutouts of the daughter she killed fills me with such incredible rage. In part because of her audacity, and in part because I know she's only this way because she's been lied to.
Incredible journalism. Hopefully it won't be long before these abuse-protection laws get stricken from the books.
I won’t go into hospitals any more or take pharmaceuticals. I have my reasons. I think CS is true.
Me too. The words "oh fuck off" were shouted at the screen.
@Jackamomo As KB said throughout the video, it’s your right as an adult to refuse medical care and seek the treatment you want. It’s another thing to let a child die a painful, preventable death, as the comment you’re replying to is talking about
@@abigailchiesa1337 yeah but if you don’t trust doctors, how could you justify sending your kid to a medical professional who you genuinely believe is going to harm them further?
The lesson is that it’s wrong to not believe in medicine because it’s not up for debate how real and actually true it is.
So the criminalise the rejection of science is the only logical course of action.
@@abigailchiesa1337 maybe she’s right. I mean, Andy Warhol died in hospital during a routine operation not long after surviving being shot.
As a Christian, I had no idea such a sect existed. I've even passed by a Christian Science church in my downtown area without even really understanding what it was.
Thank you so much for making this video!
Me to
The best way to think of it isn’t as a sect but as a cult that merely claims legitimacy from a distant association with a belief they have little real relation to. CS isn’t recognized by any legitimate Christian denominations, even the bad ones.
"...divine source changed it's mind 49 times..."
I love this
Like 400 times by the end of her life lol
The same way the climate alarmists change their mind several times too. Global cooling in the 1960s, global warming later, and because they can't get anything right, now it's just climate change where if the temperature rises 10 degrees as the season changes from winter to summer, it's proof of incoming catastrophe.
Not unlike the God of the Christian Bible 😂😂
So many Darwin Awards.
I’m honestly cackling at the fact that she gave a placebo to a patient she was treating homeopathically like no queen you were just conducting business as usual LMAO
My ex husband had relatives down in Greenville SC. I remember seeing a Christian Science reading room while we were downtown.
My ex was pretty knowledgeable about different sects of Christianity. When I asked him what it was, he just said "I don't even know how to begin to explain that."
And now I get it.
My father once worked for a Christian science publication. He wasn't part of the religion but it gave him a skewed view. This gave me a more accepting view than I otherwise might have but also made it feel like I had nothing to learn about it. Thank you for proving me wrong. I'm from Boston and learning the history this group has in my state is bizarre. It just feels so weirdly local.
The section on Child Cases was genuinely one of the most disturbing things I’ve ever heard and I spent the whole previous 2 hours knowing it would come up at one point. Absolutely ghoulish that people can support that and that the parents sometimes had the gall to believe they were still good parents after what they put their poor children through.
Humans have a very developed ability to believe what they want to, no matter how it contradicts with reality. It's one of our defining qualities.
Religions of all stripes take reality and substitute nonsense or superstition. Fairy takes are wonderful to read or watch but terrible to live.
Faith over human life, over compassion, over empathy, over kindness....It's unimaginable yet there it is.
When he said that kid had a bowel obstruction left untreated I paused the video for a sec. I work in a Veterinary ER, I've seen bowel obstructions on hundreds of dogs including my own. I still vividly remember all of the worst cases- ones where the only thing we can recommend is humane euthanasia because the bloated, heaving animal is too far gone and in unimaginable pain- I would never ever want to see what that looks like on a human child.
These people (fundamental Christians in general) claim you can't be a good person or have morality outside the church and here's my atheist ass thinking I couldn't put my worst enemy through any of that, let alone my child.
So the other day I walk passed a church and I turn to my buddy and go "Huh, it's a Christian Science church. I wonder what they're all about" and then the next day Knowing Better drops a two and a half hour long video discussing what their all about. This guy's in my head
Me when I think about "Belief it or not" not uploading for a while and then they drop a banger video the same day.
Or maybe it was a prophecy? Or a Revelation? Gasp! What else can you see, please dear prophet, I beseech thee, telleth me more!
obligatory /s
@@kellyngrey4950 yes my child. You have found me. Please, give me all of your money, and whatever you do, never let your child get medical care. SO SAYETH I!
This topic is near and dear to my heart, I've lost a grandmother to breast cancer treated with essential oils and healing crystals. Glad we have some resources for helping lift the veil of ignorance.
Looking through some of the Wikipedia articles mentioned, it seems like there's been a lot of edit activity this past month, mostly correcting the mistakes you mentioned. Thanks for this public service.
Ohhh MG! I have a story for you on that!
So, I was working Adult Protective Services. One case, a family member was concerned about their eldest sister. A widow of a Christian Scientist. She was clearly suffering from dementia, some psychotic features, definitely not able to take care of herself. Family urged me to take custody as the state, and I saw the need for a guardian crystal clear - just one problem: When I took custody of people at need, I need to be able to find placement. Placement means at least rehab, but usually a nursing facility. Nursing facilities need medical clearance. Medical clearance means to see a doctor. She refused, citing she is Christian Scientist. The closest pastor was one she didn’t know or trust even if he would have been open to get her cleared since that doesn’t mean treating with medicine, but she was too paranoid. Sooo… I could as representing the State not go ahead with custody since I cannot violate deeply held religious beliefs. But her relatives could. So, I told them that usually, I take custody and turn it over to appropriate relatives, but I couldn’t in this case, but I’d be a witness if they needed one. Cost them a few thousand bucks extra this way. Would have been free if I would have been guardian for a day or two to place her in a safe environment, but I couldn’t.
@GameliEL Auceps what?
@@loveroffunnyy that's what I thought. 🙂
@GameliEL Auceps I think you are referring to my opening. I'm an atheist. I don't care calling on God or Allah... The reason I don't is that I know it is offensive to some and being offensive is distracting from my story. Even if I think there is no higher being does not mean I need to be insensitive to others. So, I simply avoid doing so.
@GameliEL Auceps thats what you got out of that you demonic hellspawn?
@GameliEL Auceps I happen to have a close personal relationship with Jesus Christ and He told me to tell you that saying “oh my god” is totally cool and also that he was in a polycule with the 12 disciples. Go with God!
Ashley's case was actually horrifying, I usually don't get emotionally affected by stories like this, but it just made me so angry... How could a mother let her child writhe in suffering for months, still refuse to let her go to hospital, and send her away to slowly die alone in agony and then have the audacity to claim she "knows she's a good mother."
This is just indefensible on every level...
If I had a child who was suffering, and also believed so strongly in a doctrine that prevented me from trying other methods of helping them relieve that suffering; even if I had faith they'd get better, if I saw them just suffering like that, I would try every possible option to stop it, even if I didn't personally believe it would be effective at all. If I had to, I would try methods that were even complete moonshots because nothing at all would ever be a higher priority to me than to ensure they stop suffering as soon as possible. So thinking "medicine would not be effective" is no fucking excuse at all! If you cared, you would still try it if that was the only option left, wouldn't you...?
How any mother could not put their child's suffering as the absolute top priority in their lives is beyond me...
They didn't even put her into palliative care, where she'd at least be spared the pain as she needlessly died... Just euthanising her would have been more humane than what they did to her... Absolutely disgusting people.
it's mental illness, you can't convince them. That's why we have to force them to take care of their child or take them away
Well I'm sure "Mother" Theresa knew the feeling.
Agreed on your last point especially. Euthanasia and palliative care need more respect in society
@@Tester-sh1mnwhat?
@@dosmastrify Long story short, mother Theresa opened up a bunch of “clinics” that where full of medical malpractice. She got top quality healthcare to fix her heart but let the poor in her hospices suffer in pain because it brought them closer to God. Wicked old hag.
"Spiritual snake oil" should be a more popular term since it describes a lot tbh. Amazing video! You're always so thorough, it's impressive!
This was really good. My grandmother was a Christian Scientist. Mind blowing. Luckily her children were not.
When push comes to shove they usually go to the ER.
i like how you plan ahead and shave your beard differently for different takes, that is hard, especially for a video this long, mad respect
That's what a script let's you do
Really, I've never heard an outsider so accurately and understandably explain the tenants of Christian science in a way that logically exposes its circular beliefs without misunderstanding them.
I grew up in Christian Science with a professional Practitioner as a mother (and a CS podcaster for a father), and I escaped during college, something that led to my estrangement from my family. I am very grateful to see such a thoughtfully considered account of the faith. Most jarring is the fact that many of the names in the Child Cases section are personally familiar to me - I was friends with the Twitchells (of the Massachusetts case) in my teenage years, attended AU (the camp mentioned in the pandemic section), etc.
A few thoughts to add to the conversation that might be useful to others:
- It's worth noting that the idea presented by this video that CS Practitioners are just 'treating' (big air quotes) other Christian Scientists is false. A large chunk of the practice of many I knew was folks from outside CS, who were perhaps somewhat 'new agey' in their thinking and so receptive to either the philosophy or just the wording and patter of faith healers like my mother. Even though not Church members, these people will sometimes not pursue medical intervention because of the advice of a Practitioner. I feel this is important to mention because it is another way Christian Science negatively impacts those outside the religion itself.
- I also have to say that the list of Journal-listed Practitioners is likely not representative of the total number of Practitioners (though certainly the impression of a downward trend is not mistaken). Growing up it seemed like every other CS adult was a Practitioner part time and would be intermittently listed. They could also be unlisted for reasons of internal politics - my mother had drama with the church and was unlisted for some time, even though she practiced full-time and was well known.
Many people I love and respect very deeply remain Christian Scientists to this day. If any of you are reading this, recognize my name, and ever want to talk, please feel free to reach out to me. You can be assured of an environment to talk about how you are feeling that is free of guilt.
I appreciate your reaching out to those who remain in CS. You are right about "part time" practitioners, as in order to become Journal listed one needed verified testimonials at least some of which were "physical" healings to submit with the application for listing. Some of these part-timers were in the process, back in the day. Then there was my grandmother, who was hospitalized while a practitioner, listed in the Journal, and had to remove her listing and be sort of "on probation" until she had been free of "materia medica" for at least a year before she could get her listing back. Most of the members considered going to the medical people to be an admission of failure on their own part.
I became friends with Rita Swan, well remotely anyway. I heard about CHILD and contacted her. I do'n't judge her as harshly because people need to know this is a cult and it has tons of social pressures. Everyone they know is a Christian Scientist. Her organization no doubt saved a lot of children (if not her own). and the movement, if not organization is still active. And they sue states and so on. She sad thousands of people brought up in Christian Science contacted her over the years. They even had a sort of convention, which I couldn't afford at the time. I know what you are talking about my grandmother was a Practitioner and dad and mom were both "class instructed". I went to Principa College. I did have a period of disassociation with my parents. We did get closer eventually.
Oh hey, I do recognize your name, as someone who also grew up in CS. Thanks for sharing your experience. It’s a weird thing being out of the religion that was such a huge part of my upbringing, even through college. I still sometimes feel like I have to pretend I’m CS, which is also weird.
@@Ehreads I'm gathering you are referring to Andrew, but it's a small world. CS tend to associate only with other CS, ime, anyway. It's unusual for them to have many friends who aren't. Oh gee, tough thing to deconstruct I think. OTOH, I think people started leaving when I was a kid (I'm 75). It took me a long time to deconstruct and I had no help from anybody. I looked for some kind of group online but the only thing I found was a right wing Christian group. Wasn't leaving one cult for another.
@@515aleon Yes, definitely a small world. I’m fortunate to have friends outside of the religion, and actually finding them has helped a lot. Many of my other friends are former CS, so at least we understand each other. But I have a lot of family and professional connections who are still in the religion, and it’s hard. I’m lucky my parents have supported my desire to seek medical care, but even that was a rocky experience (plus I didn’t even know how to go about seeing a doctor until I was 25). I wish there were support groups for us out there…
I’m one of those people that doesn’t mind gore or hearing about biological horror, but the fact these parents were so deluded into believing nothing was wrong and the fact so many of them got treatment for themselves makes me physically upset
If there’s one thing I’ve learned throughout my 22 years of life, it’s that if someone says the world is going to end in our lifetimes, then I should probably avoid letting anything they say influence me in any way.
Mrs Eddy never said that
@@amazingjane2703 Yeah, I also don't recall hearing that from her but it is good advice.
Yep! I'm a historian and folks have been predicting the end is nigh since the crucifixion of Christ. They've looked at every happening in a way that fits their beliefs, rather than approaching it rationally. TLDR those fvckers are crazy.
When I was a kid, I loved going to Mardel’s (Christian Bookstore) so I associated that description with a good thing
While walking down a street with my mom, I saw a store front that said “Christian Science” and asked to go look
My mom kneeled down, looked me straight in the eyes, and said that’s not a real thing, it’s not Christian or science and not to look into it.
Tbh, I never looked into it but this has unlocked that trapped memory
Lol sounds like a nice woman
Your mom is a smart woman
based anti-cult mother
Your mom sounds pretty based. Wish my mom had shown that fortitude with her parents and having to deal with their CS nonsense.
Your mom taught you a very valuable and correct lesson that day.
I grew up in Christian Science, glad to see people hearing more about how awful and dangerous it is.
If you don't mind sharing, what was your most striking memory from your time in it?
Shit’s wack
@@DiseasedMoss What you really need to know is that the church experience is so antiseptic that the individual could be fooled into thinking that they are the problem.
It is great you got your doctor involved in your small experiment, you set a great example for others to follow in being responsible. It also speaks volumes of your research ethic that you tried to live the topic as best you could without jepordizing your health. Glad I found this channel, your videos are informative and insightful.
My favorite thing about what you do is how you contextualize religions and cultural movements within America's history as it developed. There's were some pretty major forces in the past that shaped our present that we really don't appreciate. I'd love to see you do a video on the Third Great Awakening.
The third great awakening is so large in scope it was kind of already covered in KBs previous videos on the JWs as well as LDS church/Mormons. But maybe a summary/big picture overview would be a nice additional short video
As someone from Tennessee, I’m used to seeing my state on maps with stupid or bullshit laws either on the books or trying to get passed, so you don’t know the joy it brought me to FINALLY see a map where Tennessee isn’t a backwards state!!
Cries in Texas
Don't you have EPB in Chattanooga? You've got the only place in America where your energy bills aren't a mob shakedown.
Cries in Mississippi
same! well, not from tennessee, but i was absolutely expecting by state to just fall in line with the horrible thing going on.
From Nebraska. Same.
I appreciate that you went out of your way to explain how dangerous Christian Science can be to everyone, not just its followers, but if anyone honestly thinks it's okay because it only affects the children of Christian Scientists and not them or their children, they're heartless and have a serious lack of empathy. We need to protect people, period. Regardless of any circumstances or beliefs they or their parents might have.
All religions are dangerous to everyone, otherwise they would be called "philosophies" and they wouldn't qualify to be tax-free in a rich-corrupted land. Only State-Accepted religions get those special benefits above the rest of us groupies. In terms of danger, at any moment "the politics of heaven" will bear their "earthly members of the body/host" on our "inferior worldly politics" so they can use it to benefit themselves while obviously doing the opposite to us, given how the economy-game works. This always bears out historically.
Irony is they have children and the fans of this channel have darwin awards.
Further irony is "alive due to modernity" farms exactly the opposite of empathy.
@@churblefurbles what exactly are you talking about
@@jonahschwab He thinks none of us have children, or that we're dumb and die of darwin awards. A CS cult member obviously.
Thanks for your work. I was raised in CS, and I can confirm that you are incredibly accurate. I was a junior at Principia Upper School, a boarding school, in 1985, when the measles outbreak occurred at the College. They made all of us go to our rooms for a special prayer session to “keep the right thought.” At Principia, there was a teacher who had an untreated cancer ON HIS FACE for the whole school year of 86-87. (I see there are former “Scientists” and Principia students here. Anyone remember Mr. Day??) He died soon after that. Back home in California I watched a devout old lady go blind of cataracts. And so many other similar stories I could tell. It was chilling to hear all about this cult, the nonsense word salad that my mom thought should be like the at we breathe. Thanks for your masterful work! I’m going to check out your other videos.
I usually don't get bothered by the sections with disclaimers but when the child cases came up it just... the detailed descriptions of cases, the injustice of it all, the fact that it was entirely preventable, and the fact that the victims were all just children and were powerless in these situations... this was the most difficult thing I've ever listened to.
Exactly this. Those children and their suffering are never going to leave my head. To think those are only the ones that became public, too.
It genuinely made me incredibly mad and disgusted by these poor excuses for people
Today children can say they are the opposite gender and the government will happily perform irreversible gender change surgery and sterilize the child often without the knowledge of the parents. Somehow that is not child abuse at all with entire communities being fully supportive of this practice with nobody even listening to those that have detransitioned.
My father was a Christian Scientist and I didn't get vaccinated until I was 7 after my mom left him. He was pretty crazy in many ways. I'd also like to say thank you for warning about the abuse cases because I really can't handle that stuff.
I didn't get vaccinated til I was in my 20s. A psychiatrist I was seeing (oh boy long story there), but he was so upset he contacted a pharmacy and prescribed a polio vaccine. He didn't know how to prescribe it, called the pharmacy. It was kind of amazing.
You can’t handle words? Grow up.
@@cococock2418which is why freedom of speech is stupid bc words don't matter and if we wnated to hear them we should just grow up
@@cococock2418cringe
@@jinolin9062What in the world are you struggling to say?
My great Aunt went blind which could have been prevented with medical treatment. Her husband died from a cold and he was fairly healthy. My Grandma lived with debilitating Rheumatoid Arthritis without treatment leaving her without the use of her hands for years. They were all with Christian Science. I remember going to their service on Easter Sunday once and you were right. My Great Aunt and her husband manly just read from the books. They all lived in Michigan.
What is sad is they were the kindest, funniest and most calming people I knew. In their presence you felt at ease and had a good time due to their whit. It was so upsetting to see them suffer needlessly.
I was raised by Christian Science parents and grandparents. I believed at the time they were devout in their faith because we went to church each Sunday. My grandmother kept MBE's book handy for constant reference, we read the Christian Science monitor and my grandmother was a member of the mother church. However I was taken to the doctor regularly for check-ups, vaccines, teeth braces, and regular preventative care. No-one in my family consulted a Christian Science Practitioner instead of a doctor for illnesses. They drank coffee and my mom and grandfather smoked. With that said, my mom never did seek medical treatment when she got cancer but it was because she couldn't afford heath care. All the info in this video is totally new to me. What surprises me more is how many times MBE was married. Not one word of that was ever mentioned by anyone at church, ever. I never had a negative vibe from the church, I just thought being a Christian Scientist meant you used God's strength to help you through difficult times. When that didn't work, you went to the doctor or consulted other experts.
what country are you from? british christian scientists are required to take their children to doctors, and as such, also generally don't mind going as adults. very different vibe from american christian science. and on the other hand, in all the american churches i've been to (and at principia), it was definitely not a secret how many times she'd been married. it was in some kids book about her life too.
@@OnsenDreamscapes I live in the good ole USA where healthcare is treated as a luxury item. Maybe it was my local church in Erie, PA that failed to mention anything personal about MBE in Sunday school. Once I was old enough to attend (adult) church services I stopped going to church entirely. My mom and grandmother continued to go and many years later my mom took my son to Sunday school until he too was old enough to decide for himself. Neither my son nor I have ever been involved with the church since our Sunday school days so I never spent any effort to learn about MBE and the church outside the minimal amount I remembered.
@@Val_Emrys interesting, yeah i guess i always went to pretty strict churches. i heard the cs churches in upstate NY are pretty loosy goosy, so maybe yours was like that
Every miraculous story of people learning to walk again gets a completely different feel if you've ever had Lumbago. The first day, I could LITERALLY not move. Only after the third day and a fair amount of painkillers it all went away. But those first 48 hours felt so hopeless even if i knew it would quickly go away.
I know what you mean. I destroyed my knee years ago and have to deal with borderline crippling arthritis-I can’t even remember what having two working legs feel like.
It would be real nice if Jesus could lend a bro an arm and (more particularly) a leg 😂
Whenevr somone mentions lumbago I just think of Uncle from RDR2. "I.. I can't Arthur. I got terminal LUMBAGO!"
Yeah, I threw my back out once and was in toouch pain the stand up that first day. But here I am today completely healed, it's a miracle!
@@coolboy3848 it's very serious!
I didn’t know lumbago was a real thing, I thought it was just a fake illness uncle made up in red dead redemption lol.
Echo chambers and extremist pipelines have ALWAYS existed. So dangerous to not hear the full story rather hear someone’s opinion or interpretation of said matter. Been a fan for years, beautiful work as always!
And the worst thing is that the ones who manage to come out become atheist extremists as well.
Genuinely dangerous stuff, especially when kids get involved
And I have to say that delving into the comment section for a video like this demonstrates to me that, instead of lunatics, serious people have serious things to say.
The vaccine hesitency caused by christian scientists truly has been a massive headache for myself, the pharmacists, and technicians I work with
Strangely enough the vaccine hesitancy from church (not Christian Science) didn't make me vaccine hesitant. It was after getting the flu vaccine which made me extremely sick within three hours of getting it, and which also left me permanently exhausted and caused my joints to feel like they'd been bathed in acid any time I have a fever. If I hadn't been permanently weakened then maybe I would have recovered from mono better, which kicked off full body pain that never goes away and a long, long, list of health problems. Now people wonder why I am hesitant when it comes to vaccines and have even told me I deserve to die because I don't want to take any more.
@@winterinbloomI mean, that is a pretty unlikely story. Unless you are allergic to one of the ingredients in the vaccine, whatever happened is not likely the cause of your issues
Meh. No different than Big Pharma 🤷🏽♀️
@@winterinbloomironically, the problem
tales like yours are part of the problem, a big part. You should be ashamed of yourself.
"This will be a recurring theme" I love this every time
As someone raised in Christian Science, having gone through Primary Class Instruction, and having read much of the source material you quote, I feel I do have an informed point of view. I left the church after both of my parents died (too young, in my opinion), and after my son was not responding to this form of treatment. (Son is fine now, and an adult. I credit him with helping me get out of CS)
One thing I will say, and said it at the time to friends, is that I find the church's claims that "members are free to do anything" to be a shield against legal liability for themselves, placing the onus on individual parents. Persons to whom a member might turn to were advising those parents that they are legally protected to choose radical reliance. Whatever the church may say about being free... there is social pressure within congregations (or there was back when I was in the church 20 years ago) for you as a member to be radically reliant, not just for yourself but also for your children. It's kind of like shunning.
I totally support removing those exemptions. My child received the "normal" vaccinations as a teenager, and I got my own in my second half century. Medicine has come a long way since 1866. Whole theories have changed. It takes a long time to come out of a belief system when you were systematically prevented from receiving contrary information. Did you know that CS parents could object to their child being exposed to education about diseases? They could in the 1950's - 1970's when I was in school. The entire concept of book banning and messing with school curricula is troubling to me, based on my own experience.
While there are a few minor inaccuracies in the video, I did not consider them consequential. Example: Wednesday evening readings are composed by the First Reader of each branch church, they are not identical to the Boston church. Often they do address local concerns or happenings.
Medicine changes with time, but omnipotent God does not. It's still all mortal mind shenanigans.
@@OhHapppyDaayAre you playing a bit or are you with the cult
Also, the mother church might not require abstaining from medicine for medical care for general membership anymore, but as far as I know, branch churches can still require it for membership, as can CS organizations that are not officially connected to the Church for employment and enrollment (such as Principia up until I believe 2019). And I'm also not sure what the status is at the moment for keeping one's "Journal listing" if one takes medicine. Anyway, though the mother church says you're free to choose medicine, this is pretty much the same as any other cult claiming 'you're free to leave at any time'. Yes, I believe you can still be exempt from human biology and medical topics in public school, at least i was in the 90s-early 2000s. at least my parents let me take sex-ed, lol.
That story of her falling, not being able to walk, and then miraculously healing shortly after makes me think of multiple sclerosis. Something similar happened to me when I was younger, and several times since then. I've always bounced right back after too, but that's how multiple sclerosis is.
Yeah, I was uncomfortable at her potential illness being described as simply tantrums. It seems to be that she WAS ill.
It sounds more like the neurological manifestations of some lupus presentations, when you combine it with her other symptoms. I wouldn't be shocked if she had SLE, it was often presented at the time as "just constantly ill, never getting better".
@@Abigail-hu5wf Ooh, good point. I have a cousin with lupus and she gets symptoms similar to what I also get with MS.
I was raised in Christian Science. I went to the summer camps, the schools, everything, so I have a pretty comprehensive view of the millenial attitude towards the religion, and since its a small community, I know pretty much everyone who's been really active in it all their lives. And most of us are definitely leaving the religion, with a few exceptions, less because of the child neglect stuff and more because of just how boring the services are and how everything is stuck in the 1800s. I haven't attended a service since I moved out from my parents' house and I'm willing to accept medical care in addition to prayer, which is great for realigning my thoughts sometimes when things get tough. I used to fear my "wavering" faith because although I'm not agnostic, faith is still really important in CS, but since I've felt like this since I turned 18, I'm comfortable with my beliefs at this point. And although I was hesitant to accept medicine at first(CS basically treats it all like poison) I have no clue how I lived without it. I wasn't sick a lot as a kid but when I was it was hard, and when I found out about basic stuff like theraflu and tums and how simple they are, I was like, why hadn't I done this before? When I had deep cleanings at the dentist, I didn't accept any numbing drugs so I felt everything.
I also had class instruction to be a practitioner and visited my teacher every year for a few years with the rest of her students(theres an annual meeting of all students called "association") until I realized that she was a literal fascist (as in, called herself a 'benevolent dictator', demanded flowers from her students, and used the metaphor of a bundle of sticks being stronger than one) who ranted about how all the gay people are r-ping babies and expected all of us to quit our jobs and become full-time practitioners. Homophobia is really strong in CS even though it's not really talked about in Science and Health, it's just that a lot of CS' are conservatives. I walked out on her and never talked to her again, she then called my mom and lectured her about not forcing me to go back to association.
Something that I'd like to elaborate on is when Larry King said "the rich part of town". Christian Science is, first and foremost, a religion of the upper middle class. That's why it was so big among my generation; our boomer parents could afford to send us to the private schools and summer camps and such. The reason most practitioners are women is because usually their husbands are the actual breadwinners while they do their time-consuming hobby. And people who are upper middle class are more likely to have better general lifestyles than people of the lower class, so CS thrived when the upper middle class thrived, but since the middle class is shrinking, CS is suffering as a result.
In general I thought the video was pretty accurate but there were few things you got wrong or left out though:
-The first reader themselves chooses readings on Wednesdays, not from the mother church, so it's probably the most engaging part of the ceremony. And the last 30 minutes of the service, the testimony portion, is usually dead silent, with maybe an old person or two standing up to ramble about how great God is. There are no other ceremonies, no weddings or funerals, only memorial services sometimes.
-Principia, despite being the largest CS school, has always had ~100 people per grade. When I went in the 2000s it was probably at its biggest. Its numbers today are about as big as they've always been, although they're opening up to non-CS people now to keep them up. Many more attend the summer camps each year like Adventure Unlimited.
-Idk where but I believe Mary Baker Eddy even said that we can get vaccines. I've no clue why CS's are so reluctant to get vaccinated.
-Jim Henson was raised in CS and still used it 'til he died although he adopted many other religions and stopped going to churches, like a lot of boomers raised in CS did.
-Many CS nowadays use medical as well as prayer, especially as more millennials become parents.
-Most of CS's just view MBE as a teacher, not as a prophet on the same scale as Jesus. At least the believers in my generation.
Interesting. Thanks for sharing!
This was was pretty close to my experience, my family was full of practitioners, and Granddad even taught in Leelanau in Michigan. Like many churches, I think the lack of ability or desire to evolve will be its ultimate demise. In the modern world, people, especially Americans do not tend to accept flexibility in religion. Granddad, who was a lifelong CS, didn't really reject medicine as much as he abstained. He was a practitioner, but with enough humility to recognize that sometimes intervention isn't bad. He lived into his 80s. Dad refused medical care until it was too late, and died at 60 from something curable.
While I have no connection to CS at the moment, I do and always have appreciated the mind-over-matter mindset, and working in the social sciences, I can confirm that there is a power of positivity of mindset being beneficial. If CS would lean a little more into it, they'd probably get a bigger following
@Wayne Bart I'm a big fan of meditation and mastery of the self. It's not incompatible with science, and shouldn't be incompatible with the vast majority of religions. I think you're right and they wouldn't be dwindling if they allowed for some change.
@@couldntgetagoodname That's so interesting I've been up to Leelanau several times, and I remember seeing the CS church there and being really curious cause it was the first time I had seen one.
@@micahbonewell5994 early in his retirement, grandad worked with the CS school up there, but I think they’d reincorporated as a non-profit school at that point. I’d be curious if they have any CS pedagogy remaining
Dude, I've listened to some out there documentaries and history videos. But this made my head explode so many times. The amount of detail you put in here was truly outstanding. And this was, hands down, the most intriguing history story I've ever heard.
My grandma was a Christian scientist. Luckily both of my parents were atheist or non-denominational so I got all the usual vaccines etc. I still went to Sunday school growing up, and that scientific statement of being unlocked some deep memories. I think the only reason my parents humored my grandma and sent me was because they could tell I viewed the Bible stories the same way I viewed Harry Potter, even from a very young age.
-and the inheritance : )
I’m glad you received an early inoculation of rationality.
The only thing this video tells people to do is if they hear anything religious sounding, they should immediately condemn the person and ignore anything they say. Also obey the scientists without question, even if they tell you that sterilization drugs are healthy.
@@funveeable lol what? If by "anything religious sounding" you mean "anything that sounds fantastical and for which there is strong evidence to the contrary," and if by "should immediately condemn the person and ignore anything they say" you mean "should not blindly believe anything they say. Oh and punish them if their actions directly lead to the deaths of children," then sure. That sounds about right.
Obey scientists without question? Really? You must be new to the channel, because he has a bunch of videos where he covers times when scientists screwed up and how you shouldn't just blindly listen to anyone. And sterilization drugs? Where did that come from? Sounds like you're projecting
@@funveeable Someone who thinks non-religious people, and even many religious people “obey” scientists must live in a world of delusion. As if the scientific community works as preachers in a church. Utterly comical. The only job of scientists is to research their fields and write up their findings in journals that are reviewed and often challenged by peers in the same field. Their findings in the fields of human health are acted upon by doctors if the research finds it is beneficial to people and can treat disease or symptoms. No one is forced into treatments and can utterly refuse them or seek second opinions from other physicians. Your comment about sterilization drugs sounds like it is founded in some manic fairytale meant to treat others the way you’re accusing people here. Learn how reality works before airing the dirty laundry of your ignorance. No one is “obeying” scientists and most rational people only dismiss others if those others are acting anti-social to begin with, regardless of religious belief and affiliation.
@@funveeable sorry the truth hurts so bad
I’m loving the first person historical documents that you have the audience read. It feels like I’m back in AP History classes. (No sarcasm here, I loved those classes)
I can't think of very many content creators who literally move stuff around their own house to film everyday items related to their own content. What a unique format.
And the fact that you mention Mark Twain's real name in the video ONCE only to never come back to it again is badass, in a weird way
My dad is a doctor. He once told me nothing makes him sadder than a very sick or injured Christian Scientist patient coming in with something that could have been a full recovery if they hadn't spent two months praying for it to get better, and now they need to amputate
Two and a half hours? I hope RUclips pays you well for your time. Your videos are so well-researched. I can only imagine how much time goes into your videos. Thank you.
He puts about 2 to 4 months of work in each video. He only uploads a few times per year, but which video is high quality.
RUclips doesn't but patreon does ..
patreon pays for most of his livelihood id imagine, he has over a thousand patrons and id imagine the average amount per person is above the $5 tier
Obviously he’s getting paid bozo. You think he’s doing this for free? Guy has over 1000 patrons
When I was taking homeschool co-op classes in Oregon City as a teen, one of my classmates was a kid whose family had been a member of the cult you mention at the end. During his family's time with the cult, he'd gone out on his bicycle without a helmet, smashed into a tree while going down a hill, and was unconscious for several days. His family and the church put him to bed and prayed for him. He was lucky--he recovered. But he could have had a skull fracture or a brain bleed, and he probably had, at minimum, a concussion. Even if what he needed was mostly rest, he also needed to see a doctor and have the injury documented--having had one concussion can exacerbate the symptoms with a future one.
My entire dad’s side of the family is Christian scientist, my dad was too for much of his life. I never believed the same as them, but I was inspired by my grandma’s sheer amount of faith she had. That’s what made it so hard to watch her suffering with diabetes near the end of her life, knowing she was praying as much as she could, as often as she could, and that healing was not coming, it was a very hard time for my family, and especially for her.
Good on you for giving people a moment to skip ahead or pause after giving a trigger warning! It's not something I personally need, but I always wonder how people who do are able to act on them because youtubers usually give them & power forward immediately. You're the first RUclipsr I've seen who's waited a moment, so good on you!
My great grandmother was a Christian Scientist. She gave my grandfather the middle name Eddy. My uncle was named a junior so he had it, too.
Once when I was a kid, I asked my mom why their name was spelled that way. My dad always went by Eddie, so I knew the regular spelling. She told me they were named after the leader of the Christian Science movement, but she didn't know anything else about it.
My great grandfather developed a melanoma on his neck, which could have been easily treated even back then, but my great grandmother didn't want him to see a doctor. The cancer grew until it was obvious that her religion was not helping him. Unfortunately, by the time she relented and let see a dermatologist, it was too late. It had spread onto his head and down his back, and had begun to metastisize so there was not anything they could do.
Eddy is a perfectly valid way to spell that name.
@@Jotari Yes, it is but it's not the most common way, and it's not the way my dad spelled it, which was important to my story.
This "religious exemption law" is utterly insane. No state should ever pass such a law, allowing people to criminally neglect their own family members and deciding over their heads that they shouldn't get treatment. A family that allows their own child to die because they are so brainwashed and consumed by their cult should be charged heavily, and the whole cult should be made illegal and dissolved.
I agree that religious exemption laws, especially regarding child healthcare, are baseless and should be repealed. But I don't think the parents should be charged under those circumstances. They did what they thought was best for their child. They were wrong, of course, but should they be punished for that? If the healing method trusted by the parents of a sick child turns out to be bogus, does that mean the parents are horrible people, or that they shouldn't have children?
Think of it this way: What if they went to a quack instead of a real doctor? What if this was the 1800s and there was no standard medical practice, and their doctor prescribed their sick child snake oil, or fistfuls of cocaine? Are the parents at fault then? Should they have prayed for their child's soul instead? Are they horrible people for relying on a doctor?
Desperation for your child's health can turn people away from medicine as easily as it can turn people towards it. We're lucky enough today to have a trustworthy society of medical professionals, but no method is perfect. It's possible that a doctor could misdiagnose, or a nurse could make a mistake, and a child's condition could worsen. If you're a parent watching your child's health deteriorate under medical care, and a faith healer walks up to you and tells you she can heal your child if you join her cult, are you a horrible person for turning her down? What if your child dies under the hospital's watch? Are you a horrible parent then?
Honestly, this is kind of an unprecedented situation, because these are people - and children - who believe their physical bodies don't exist, and suffering likewise doesn't exist. I can't really blame someone for refusing to treat their child for a nonexistent illness. I don't really know how to deal with these people on moral or ethical grounds without attacking their religion, which a court isn't supposed to do. Christian Science teaches people not only to rely on faith healing, but to convince themselves that if their faith isn't working, that they're just _making up_ that it's not working. Not only is your child's illness not real, but _your child's suffering isn't real. _*_Your child's death isn't real._* I guess you could start establishing criminal negligence by asking if they believe their child exists at all.
Ultimately, the question is, are these our children? Are we responsible for someone else's child's well being? And likewise, are other people responsible for our children? What if we think those people are wrong? What if we lived in a dystopian society of Christian Scientists, and we wanted to take our child to a doctor? What if our child ends up dying anyway? Are we horrible parents for refusing Christian Scientist healing? Should we be convicted by a jury of Christian Scientists?
Yeah I know, I'll have a number 3 and a frosty.
@@turbovirgin_I agree to the punishment but because I believe punishment is harmful for society, I do think the child's health and livelihood rights should be above parental rights, I think there should be better jurisdiction on cults etc in general not from a legal perspective stemming from child protection but from a point of right to education, life without harm for all, and if a organization is found to o harm the dismantle it all together. One can believe what they want but it's different from brainwashing others with threats...
Everything except the charging criminally part. Cost too much for us... Consider the loss somewhat survival of the fittest. Those people are likely so far gone they don't even know what they're doing is wrong. People who are brainwashed often do not know they're brainwashed. They believe full heartedly. That's what makes a good brainwashing. Religion in general is totally irrational and not needed by people who are capable of thinking for themselves.
I don't understand why people take religion so seriously
@@HamJesus1313gives meaning to a universe where the fundamental nature is just dice rolls. not having any guiding principles or meaning scares people
I know of someone who was raised a Christian Scientist as a child until she broke her arm. Her mom would only get her treatment from a practitioner until her arm began to turn black. Luckily her mother sought proper medical attention and everything turned out okay. They were shunned from their church (but had already planned to leave after the fiasco). Scary stuff.
That video took a lot of research, writing, and work and it is much appreciated
You are by far one of my favorite channels
Wait, hold on. They called specifically to ask whether or not they could be prosecuted for not seeking medical treatment for their kid *before* calling a Christian Science practitioner? That kinda implies to me that they suspected their kid might die and wanted to make sure they wouldn't be held liable.
Edit: Wait. That's what got their conviction overturned? That they called and asked _the church_ whether or not it was legal to refuse to seek medical care for their obviously sick infant? If I were on that jury, I'd see that as evidence that they expected the child to die and wanted to make sure they wouldn't face consequences for neglect and manslaughter.
Lucky for them you were not on the jury. Wish you had been.
Yeah that didn't make sense to me either.
After learning about the child abuse cases (that's what they are, regardless of what the law says), I am suddenly really grateful about my very tame religious upbringing.
I am prety sure that in some countries this seen as child abuse and illegal.
@@bettinaknuelle9981 It really ought to be. Parents shouldn't have the legal right to neglect their kids to death regardless of the reason. A sincere religious belief is not a better reason to kill your child then is just wanting to go on a drug binge and leaving them in a hot car.
I’m watching for two reasons:
1. I love your work.
2. I want to see if you mention my hero, James Hetfield.
_”Broken is the promise; betrayal! The healing hand, held back by the deepened nail. Follow the god that failed.”_
EDIT: And I got my wish at 1:49:02.
you wanna know whats ironic? this video is sponsored by henson shaving. while a completely separate henson family, jim henson (you know, the guy who created the freakin' muppets!) was raised as a christian scientist! he didn't really follow it into his adult life, but it's an interesting/random tidbit about his life.
I know his mom was a Christian Scientist, but I don't know how deep the family was into the whole thing. His first advertising job was for Wilkins Coffee, and his first Muppet (Pierre the French Rat) smoked a cigarette. Also, he seems to have had a generally positive view of Christian Science into his adult life, which could also indicate that their family practiced a more chill version of it.
Some people think that Christian Science contributed to his death. He died of a bacterial infection, and if he had gone to the hospital earlier, he might have survived. However, most of his biographers and family members don't think his upbringing had anything to do with it. Not only were his children vaccinated, but Sesame Street characters have been getting flu shots since the beginning.
Another fun fact: Once, during the early years of Sesame Street, Henson took acid, and saw no effect from it. Someone (I think it was Frank Oz?) said that it couldn't have worked, because Jim's mind was already as weird and creative as it was going to get.
@@radiobob1908 i happened to have my copy of brian jay jones's jim henson biography nearby, so i double checked it, and you're right! his mom's family followed a more moderate form and it says that "more serious injuries were almost always attended to by physicians". from what i read, it seemed like he was never heavily involved in christian science in his adult life, nor were jane henson and the henson kids, but he had a few personal convictions that he held onto from it. in general, he seemed not to adhere specifically to one religion and just followed his own set of spiritual beliefs.
i remember the lsd story! i can't find the quote either but i'm pretty sure you're right about it being frank oz that said it. another fun and semi-related story is that jerry nelson and richard hunt, two other muppet performers, would often share a joint before and in-between filming for the muppet show.
when it comes to his death, i tend to believe it was a combination of factors that led to him not seeking medical attention earlier. stress, business, and probably a feeling of "i can just tough it out", but i don't know if i think the beliefs he held onto from christian science played a huge role. either way, i just thought it was an interesting coincidence from KB (even though henson is a pretty common last name.)
p.s.: i love talking about jim henson and the muppets, so this little comment interaction made my day :)
Didn't he die from untreated pneumonia, though?
The amount of work and research you place into these videos is truly incredible. You break these topics down into an entertaining and easy to understand format that makes it so enjoyable to sit for Hours. Thank you for making this content.
I grew up Christian Science! I've never clicked on a video so quickly! I'm writing this at the very beginning of the video and cannot wait to watch it. My parents and my grandparents on both sides, all met at the youth forum.
I'm curious how this video sat with you?
Same.
OMG. This gives me chills. I had a colleague many years ago that was a Christian Scientist and I naively assumed "oh neat! A religious person that believes in evolution!" (Back then there were widely spread and active debates about whether teachers could teach things that were "anti-Christian" ie, dinosaurs, age of Earth, etc).
We worked over night at a hotel. We chatted often as things were usually slow. He had a sleep disorder (hence the over night job) and said he had problems taking medication. Sometimes it would get really severe and he would not sleep for up to 5 DAYS. We were young, late teens/early 20s. To think that this sweet soul's entire life was destroyed (unable to go to college or have a regular job and tortured by his sleep disorder) and his parents encouraged not taking medicine (he lived at home)... it just hurts. Something like that is so treatable. 😢
Not only that, but going without sleep that long can make a person start to hallucinate or experience significant mental health events. That is so awful, poor guy.
Sleep problems make _everything worse._ I have a ridiculously hard time getting to sleep; my mind won't stop and goes into overdrive. Lots of cool ideas, but no sleep. And when you get no sleep, you are a zombie; in pain, can't focus, can't think straight, really just can't enjoy anything. Sometimes I go 3 to 4 days without sleeping until I crash out for 24 or more hours. I feel for the guy.
@@tomatochemist It's worse than that. There are extremely rare conditions of constant insomnia that are fatal. Look up Familial Fatal Insomnia if you want a good freak out.
@John McFadin I taught at an Australian Christian school until about three years ago. To be employed there, you have to sign a Statement of Faith declaring your belief in Young Earth Creationism (i.e. the universe was created in a literal six day span). I did believe that when I started working there, although definitely not by the time I left. They still use Ken Ham's material to teach apologetics.
Love how this man came out of nowhere after a month with +1 hour video
Me when I see a 2+ hr long Kb video-“LET’S FUCKING GO!!!!”
He's a propaganadist
@Nelson3300 in what sense?
He tends to do that
@@EntryLevelLuxury
All media with a message to impart is propaganda
The things about caffeine you talked about... I have exactly the same experience. I didn't get headaches as withdrawal, but I don't think I've ever been so tired from one hour to the next when I quit.
I started getting extremely vivid and super abstract dreams and the occasional nightmare. Have a slightly easier time falling asleep than I used to, but other than that, I haven't noticed any real difference. After 3-4 weeks I went back to drinking coffee, but now I'm keeping it at a single cup of coffee/tea or a single can of soda per day. The dreams basically stopped immediately after.
Also I would never have you on in the background. I do, however, fall asleep occasionally 😂
Halfway through the video I realized that this is the religion my god mother was a part of. This was in Ukraine more than a decade ago. She developed breast cancer and refused to treat it instead thinking she could pray it away. She ended up dying. After she died her husband left and remarried leaving her 10 year old son "not his" with the boys grandmother that could barely survive off her own pension by herself.
Okay you better do a 100% serious lore dump video one of these days. Even if it's posted on April 1st I genuinely have been wanting to know the lore behind all the characters.
^
Those child cases are just harrowing. I can't picture myself being a dad to some kid and deciding not to do anything when i see them dying of something that can be preventable.
I regularly spend Sundays in the Christian Science Plaza, but only after I get out of my Catholic mass! Its a nice area to pace around while calling my family. Glad I watched this video, as I only had vague knowledge of the group before hand
Yeah, I was shocked when I learned about how terrible their approach to medicine and science is when they have such a good newspaper.
I was raised in Christian Science and read God’s Perfect Child last year. Now I have a more digestible resource to share with curious people (and my therapist) thanks to the time and effort you put into making this a video. You are helping many former Christian Scientists by exposing what it really is and its broader impact on American society. Thank you.
I love watching your channel as, being European, I learn so much about the US history and culture, I have to say that I’m astonished learning how many all-American-born religions you got there and how influential they are on policy making, hence Americans’ life. I’m from a country, Italy, where the catholic religion has deeply influenced our culture, mindset and laws over the last two millennia and we are behind in some civil rights compared to the other Western European countries (especially in terms of sexual-orientation and gender discrimination), however now I feel like we’ve actually been lucky that the catholic religion has been so strong, that none of these cult-like religions have ever had any influence in our society. It seems like that Italy, that is the land of the catholic religion, is way more secular than the US!
Growing up as a catholic(ex catholic here) in Northern Michigan in the usa it's astonishing how other Christian denominations show how moderate catholicism is compared to them. Not that there aren't a few people are a little to religiously dedicated.
Yeah haven’t most of Italy’s greatest works of art and literature since the Fall of Rome been religious in nature?
@@lesinge8868 art and literature have different extent of religious influence. Art was very influenced by the catholic religion as the richest and most influential State in the Italian Peninsula for more then a millennium was the Vatican State which was commissioning a lot of work of arts, so yes many where religious in nature, but there are also many others which were not and their were commissioned by dukes and princesses of the other states that exerted in Italy in the last millennium and a half (such as the Gioconda, the David [that actually was Mercury, originally], the School of Athens, Psyche Revived by Cupid's Kiss).
I’m terms of literature, I’ve to say that the religious theme is minor in the Italian literature history, I guess abroad the Dante’s Divina Commedia is very famous but be also written La Vita Nova that is about love. And in the Italian literature we consider as our most relevant writers: Manzoni, Pascoli, Leopardi, Verga, Foscolo, Boccaccio (just to name a few wish are alder than three century ago) and neither of than have written work of literature religious in nature.
I guess the fact we have had the Vatican State influencing politically the Italian peninsula and also preventing the Italian unification, made us pretty critique of the religious power especially through literature. 😊(on one of Verga’s novel [I Malavoglia] the main characters have a boat called “providence” and it sinks, symbolising that you are just on your own in life, he was pretty pessimistic 😅)
Ps: I hope I didn’t do too many English mistakes in my comment 😊
@@jacoposcarabello That makes sense actually.
Yeah the Divine Comedy is the most famous Italian book abroad, but learning about Alighieri’s other works and the other famous authors within Italy was pretty interesting.
My ex-girlfriend’s dad was raised a Christian Scientist. He watched a close family friend die of diabetes-induced keto acidosis (completely preventable at the time). He left the religion shortly after.