The False Evolution of Execution Methods
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- Опубликовано: 13 апр 2023
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Cover of “Générique” from Lift to the Gallows performed by Henry Walsh
Sources:
Gruesome Spectacles: Botched Executions and America’s Death Penalty (Austin Sarat, 2014)
Lethal Injections and the False Promise of Humane Executions (Austin Sarat, 2022)
A Descending Spiral: Exposing the Death Penalty in 12 Essays (Marc Bookman, 2021)
Discipline and Punish (Michel Foucault, 1975)
Report of the Commission to Investigate and Report the Most Humane and Practical Method of Carrying into Effect the Sentence of Death in Capital Cases (Gerry, Southwick, Hale 1888)
The Lynching Era and Contemporary Lethal Police Shootings in the South. (Lyons, C. J., Painter-Davis, N., & Medaris, D. C., 2022): journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/...
Ignoring the Past: Coverage of Slavery and Slave Patrols in Criminal Justice Texts. (K. B. Turner, David Giacopassi & Margaret Vandiver, 2006): www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/1...
Medieval Torture with Dana Schwartz (You’re Wrong About, 2022): podcasts.apple.com/lb/podcast...
Lynching in America: Confronting the Legacy of Racial Terror (Equal Justice Initiative, 2017): lynchinginamerica.eji.org/rep...
How a New York Tabloid Captured the First Photo of an Execution by the Electric Chair (Robert Klara, 2023): www.smithsonianmag.com/histor...
So Long as They Die: Lethal Injections in the United States (Human Rights Watch, 2006): www.hrw.org/report/2006/04/23...
Enduring Injustice: The Persistence of Racial Discrimination in the U.S. Death Penalty (Ngozi Ndulue, 2020): files.deathpenaltyinfo.org/do...
Autopsy Photos from Botched Florida Execution Released (Death Penalty Information Center, 2014): deathpenaltyinfo.org/news/aut...
Botched Executions Database (Death Penalty Information Center, 2022): deathpenaltyinfo.org/executio...
Death Penalty Support Holding at Five-Decade Low (Jeffrey M. Jones, 2021): deathpenaltyinfo.org/news/202...
The Cruel and Unusual Execution of Clayton Lockett (Jeffrey Stern, 2015): www.theatlantic.com/magazine/...
Oklahoma executes inmate who dies vomiting and convulsing (Sean Murphy, 2021): apnews.com/article/us-supreme...
Police Shootings Database (Washington Post, 2023): www.washingtonpost.com/graphi...
Above the Law: The Data Are In on Police, Killing, and Race (Lyman Stone, 2020): www.thepublicdiscourse.com/20...
The Return of the Firing Squad (Maurice Chammah, 2022): www.themarshallproject.org/20...
300 Protest Execution at Prison Gate as Killer Dies (LA Times, 1967): latimes.newspapers.com/image/...
Innocence (Death Penalty Information Center, 2023): deathpenaltyinfo.org/policy-i...
Biomechanics of Judicial Hanging: A Case Report (L. Nokes, A. Roberts, D. James, 1999): journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1...
Music Used (Chronologically): Fallow Deer (Martin Klem), Stepping on Glass (Eneide), Biological Evidence (Alan Carlson-Green), Trivalve (Ethan Sloan), Indigo (Christophe Gorman), Behind the Curtains (Skrya), Dark Times (Etienne Roussel), Ambivalent Thoughts (Magnus Ringblom), Nocturne in G Minor (Chopin), Dead (HEALTH- Max Payne 3), Implode (Peter Sandberg), Translucency (Rikard From), Générique (Henry Walsh)
Thumbnail and Graphic Design by / hotcyder
Description Credit: “Death Sentence” by Polly Chase
Additional music by Epidemic Sound
Additional Footage by Getty Images
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no
@@bestaround0 Understandable have a nice day
Hi, I don't know how things are right now, but for me this comment is not pinned, I had to scroll down to find it
Most of nebula sucks unfortunately, either lazy hyperreality content that doesn’t justify the price or, self assured leftists , there’s some cool creators on their but it’s really thin pickings
@@stranded9225 you know Jacob Geller is a leftist, right?
When a pharmaceutical company says "we cannot ethically sell this to you", then you know you are doing something absolutely ungodly.
Indeed! When a bloody _corporation_ has moral objections to your actions, you're at the bottom of a hole that's so deep that you're in danger of starting a volcano if you keep digging.
@@Roxor128 or your just doing something that would cost them money/sales.
@@20tigerpaw20 Ye, and being *worse* than that shouldn't really be a quest objective to clear, tbh.
@@20tigerpaw20 Yeah, a health company that sells death is __terrible__ optics. No way marketing would let that through.
Especially with the modern practice for physician assisted suicide becoming more and more prevalent, them refusing those drugs to the government is extremely telling.
The fact that methods of execution are considered "more barbaric" by how much it makes the people watching it uncomfortable instead of by how much the people being executed suffer is painfully ironic.
You ask me, the guillotine was far less barbaric, and a bullet through the skull is probably among the least barbaric. They make people uncomfortable though, so I guess that makes them more barbaric despite a rapid and complete death with a much lower likelihood of being botched.
@@NotNitehawk "Barbarism" is a stupid metric made entirely from propaganda. The bottom line is that killing a human is supposed to make other humans watching uncomfortable. Empathy is hardwired to our brains.
Many of those deserve suffering, but the people killing them does not.
@@ekki1993 You can empathize with the types of monsters put on death row? Red flag.
@@user-yy8dh7bd4k If you're talking about torture and deserving punishment then you missed the point of this discussion. A death sentence isn't torture. And it's not just about "deserving" but allowing the state to legally apply that sentence to anyone it deems appropriate.
"utopian punishment" - what a horrifyingly great sentence
It's what you call an oxymoron.
It brings to mind the world of Blasphemous, where the people are so whipped into shame and self hatred that the god they manifest is literally a suffering incarnate and everyone is miserable or racing to the bottom of it.
An oxymoron. Also not a sentence, those two words are a phrase.
That is not a sentence 😮
Paradoxical phrase
I remember watching a documentary about exactly this question: What's the most humane way to execute someone?
They actually found one: nitrogen asphyxiation. By all accounts, it's not only painless, it's euphoric. It's one method used in euthanasia -- Sir Terry Pratchett chose that for his own death.
Then they tracked down a pro-death-penalty lobbyist to get his reaction. "That's horrible!" he said.
It turned out that the people who want the death penalty aren't just apathetic about making it humane. They want the death penalty precisely because it's barbaric.
I say let eternity decide on suffering. Let us create a comfortable vessel in which to deliver the convicted to their judgement.
Suffering is merely a crime committed against another soul, tainting the souls of those who inflict such suffering, whether they are perceived to be just or unjust.
This ^^^ hypoxia is painless, never understood why it’s not used.
It's not that people who favour executing the worst of the worst "want it to be barbaric", they want to enhance its deterrent effect by ensuring it clearly resembles punishment. See 'The Death of Punishment' by Professor Robert Becker.
@@shaurmiath6719and even then, is death itself not enough of a deterrent? If you believe in an afterlife you either think what you did is going to end up with you in the “good place” (meaning you would probably do it anyway) or you believe death means punishment for eternity. And if you DONT believe in an afterlife then death means total and complete cessation of being.
What documentary is it?
In France, our school books usually state "Death penalty is nowadays only used in non-democratic countries, and the United-States of America"
And it's absolutely hilarious.
I imagine someone is going to say that America is practically a non-democratic country
you could say the same about routine infant circumcision, majority of men born in America have their foreskin amputated without consent, at birth, because the medical / legal complex provides no genital protection to boys specifically. girls are protected as of 1996 but I think its cruel that boys are subjected to needless genital mutilation based on outdated tradition
Unfortunately, that's not correct. For example, Japan still has the death penalty, though several murders have to be involved for it to be carried out.
But it can be argued that democracy and the abolishment of the death penalty are closely related :)
@@MaIinche saying Japan's a democracy Is a bit of a Stretch, don't you think?
Spanish one's do the same, when I saw it I thought it was out of place, now I know democratic, first world country doesn't mean fair and just
Fun fact! If you are a US citizen and get jury duty, and you wind up part of the jury for a defendant in a capital-eligible crime, if you express at any point that you have moral issues with the death penalty, you will be kicked off the jury and replaced with someone who does! Just throwing that out there if it ever comes up for you, in case that's useful info
The American barbarism should be stopped. The nation is already soaked in the blood of innocents, and it will be only time before the innocents start to draw blood.
wait so is this a lifehack to skip jury duty
@@natefroggy3626 I think it’s more of a “if you’re biased because you don’t want a person to *die,* know that telling people that means you no longer have any say in preventing it happen”
Though your interpretation might be more accurate.
@@natefroggy3626 Please don't skip jury duty. Our adversarial justice system depends on your peers determining your fate and not an elected or appointed prosecutor.
That's actually extremely handy, thank you
the biggest irony is the entire suggestion that it's possible to humanely kill another person
you nailed it
It is possible, life isn't precious.
@@alexandertiberius1098Humanely killing has nothing to do with precousness of life. Ones view on worth of life is a personal opinion.
@@gaddag1477 it is pretty much the only reason to say it's not possible to humanely kill someone, though. If the person is not subject to pain or humiliation and is treated fairly beforehand, then it is humane.
@@alexandertiberius1098 I had to look up meaning of the word humane , I guess you are right to an extent but i still think it cant be humane by definition becouse you still suffer mentaly becouse you know you are gonna be killed no? Sorry btw english is not my main language.
Being unable to convey my agony because I’m paralyzed, muted, or otherwise stifled is one of my greatest fears.
I once heard a story - can’t remember where from - of a man who had a stroke on a sunny day and fell on his back paralyzed. Passersby were thankfully able to do CPR and keep him alive, but because he was paralyzed, unable to close his eyes or speak, his staring at the bright sunny sky turned him blind. I imagine him laying there, feeling his retinas slowly burning and crying in his mind for the people to close or cover his eyes but unable to say anything as he slowly but surely and helplessly lost his vision.
If we are thinking of the same guy. It was in Australia. Guy picked up a blue ring octopus and got bit
Ouch
@@Michael-sb8jfdont do that
This story genuinely triggered my gag reflex, not out of disgust per se, out of sheer horror
Yeah I've heard this one, that'd be horrifying.
15 years ago, a pro-death penalty British politician, Michael Portillo, featured in a documentary where he was seeking the "perfect" method of execution. And he thought he'd found it - inert gas asphyxiation. Flood a chamber with nitrogen, the person would become euphoric, fall unconscious, and die within a short time without pain. Portillo then presented this to an advocate of the death penalty from the US, Robert Blecker, who thought that it was "horrific". Blecker wanted the person being executed to suffer before they died. This seemed to shock Portillo ( ruclips.net/video/S9YgWXKAwNY/видео.html )
The Cruelty Is The Point.
This is true with a ton of systems.
If someone can't or won't work, why is the solution to see them kicked out onto the streets?
Because they (They, always meaning established power - the state and the ownership class treated as one entity, if you will) want you to fear that possible outcome so you don't push for better wages or working conditions.
Why do the police have less strict rules of engagement than the military?
Because they want you to be too afraid of their violence to challenge the state directly. Oh and because an enemy can retaliate against your cruelty in a meaningful way, civilians do not.
Why are prisons often the most intentionally horrible places with the most violence and worst conditions that local or regional authorities can get away with making?
They want you to stay in line on your own out of fear of these horrific people cages literally more cruel than a zoo that they've crafted.
Sadly Necessary Edit: More severe punishments do not decrease crime rates, this is seen over and over every time it is studied.
And with all of these, and many more, the intentional cruelty is the point of it all, in the service of maintaining power.
@@Lessinath That's so true. It's all one big conspiracy meant to control you. You're so enlightened.
when i saw the "asphyxiant hazard" symbol in the intro I immediately thought he was going to talk about something similar later in the video. It just made the most sense as a method since it was quick, painless, and possibly the most sedate method to watch. When he didn't bring it up I was confused and thought I'd gotten something wrong, so I came down here to see if anyone else had a similar question.
Of course the real reason was just an insane lust for suffering, because why wouldn't it be.
@@Lessinath you're really not wrong
@@Lessinath very well said
This juxtaposed against reading about a lawsuit filed YESTERDAY on behalf of an Indiana Man, who was essentially tortured by State Police for 20 days in solitary confinement leading to massive rapid weight loss and death from malnutrition and dehydration after he had not been charged with a crime, truly highlights the desire to hide the brutality of the Carceral System.
That the brutality is at every stage and they just want you to ignore it all and be blissfully unaware while the system squeezes blood from the stone
Another Tuesday in the American police state 😔
you're goddamn right
What should I Google to find out more?
A significant amount of the police force and every single executioner takes pleasure in murdering people. Sadists. Monsters. How can our society create and employ people who experience intense satisfaction when murdering someone? 🌈
@@hesmycat just plug in key words, "indiana man dead solitary 20 days" pulled it up for me.
I've never been able to square "humane" with "non-violent." People always talk like it's for the sake of not being cruel or causing unnecessary suffering, but things like the guillotine and the firing squad, while violent, are less prone to error and more effective in ending life quickly and efficiently. It's almost like the motivation isn't about being kind or humane, but a squeamishness to confront the enormity of what is actually being done. It's about self-deception, not kindness. They want to kill people, but are so frightened to actually be seen as killers.
Personally, I am opposed to the death penalty, but I think if you're going to advocate for it, you should insist on something that is brutal and efficient. The guillotine, the firing squad. Not cruel, but still violent. Not neat and sanitized, but swift. If you're going to end a life, you owe it to yourself not to dress it up and pretend you're being gentle and kind. You're not. There should be blood. Not a spectacle, just a grim reminder that what you are doing is killing. You're not gently rocking someone to sleep, no matter how much you pretend you are. You are killing a person. I'm tired of these people pretending it's not.
It strikes me as cowardice that these people are so bloodthirsty, and yet so terrified to actually shed any.
It’s weird to say that I’ve *always* had this thought, but if the death penalty needs to be a permanent staple in “justice” for whatever reason, it should be public and it should be somewhat barbaric. I feel its somewhat juvenile and naive to think in my way, but at the end of the day an execution is designed to make an example out of offenders; it creates a system of fear rather than justice in that sense. On one hand, I can understand that people are inherently vengeful, but I agree that they shouldn’t hide the fact that, at the end of the day, they too are killers, the only difference is that they are backed by a system that allows for killing. The biggest issue is if it should be quick; and on that, no amount of suffering felt by the executed would matter to them if they ultimately die, and no amount of suffering will bring any sense of real justice to anyone else involved. This is all probably a common take, and I feel it parrots a lot of your points, but there are also probably people that straight up disagree and might have their own good reasons to do so.
As someone who supports the death penalty on a moral basis, but not on a practical one, you've hit the nail on the head. At the end of the day, you're ending someone's life. What you're doing isn't glamorous, pretty, or kind. Maybe you're making the world a better place if the victim is a serial rapist or murderer, but even then, I see it the same way I see putting down a rabid animal. It's something that needs doing, but not something to take pleasure in. I'd rather my death be quick and painless, I know that much.
Opposed to fiction and/or what its used to do? Are you sure?
That is very humane. Humans are deceptive and not kind.
By the way, in Belarus they still have a firing squads.
40:35 I laughed out loud here. "Gosh, if we accept the claim that this is injustice, then the entire justice system can be called into question." There's a categorical obliviousness to this reasoning.
It's not obliviousness. They know the system they support is fucked beyond measure, but they like it that way.
I think this is different that obliviousness. It seems to me that he said that in a way that if they ever accept such an outlook, execution would be the lesser of their worries. He kind of warns the person who claims; thinking that he is on his side on this matter, and probably yes he was on his side ultimately.
@@MrBeef-sh3lc I don't think it's about liking it or not. Many problems can't be easily fixed and many times the attempts to fix it make it much worse. Sweeping it under the rug may not be right, but it's understandable.
@@emiki6"understandable" in what way? How is it _understandable_ to knowingly support a system that isn't just flawed, but purposely constructed to be unjust. We're talking about a Supreme Court judge here as well, this isn't someone who simply doesn't understand the system, this is someone who is intimately aware of how it functions choosing to ignore it.
@@emiki6What do you mean, the problem can't be easily fixed? Abolishing the death penalty would fix the problem of the state executing innocent people. It's very straightforward.
If a society deems it necessary to have a death penalty it should be done in a direct and reliable way like firing squad or beheading. Even if the method was absolutely painless talking a life is inherently violent. No one involved in the process can be allowed to pretend that it's "gentle" or "humane".
Anesthize and shotgun to the brain
I agree, however, this does cause issues then for the people who are required to "complete" these executions; it is likely to destroy their life as well. Of course there is one very easy solution to all of this - just don't murder people because you are pretty sure they committed a certain crime
Yeah, something I've thought for a long time is that if people want a death penalty, they should be forced to watch the brutality of their choice. They shouldn't be allowed to approve it then hide away from their barbarism. I actually feel somewhat similar about the sanitisation of the meat industry, even though I eat meat.
Really, the "most humane" form of capital punishment would be point blank execution with a firearm.
It's less about a reduction in pain and more about a reduction in the guilt felt by the perpetrator.
@@NyanCatHerder That or carbon monoxide poisoning for example. But capital punishment is just inherently barbaric so it still wouldn't be ok
I remember learning about lethal injection, and when I got to the drugs used, my immediate question was... "Wait, what's the paralytic for if the first drug puts them to sleep? That doesn't make any sense."
@@repentandbelieveinJesusChrist2 go away weirdo
@Repent and believe in Jesus Christ
Spamming for Christ?
@Repent and believe in Jesus Christ Jesus loves you but he doesn't love this
The worst part is that it kind of does, it implies surgical control. Disabling the body will prevent spasms unrelated to pain from impacting the process, and even if conscious should prevent struggling and allow the medical professional to retain control of the situation, putting you back out before you can rip IVs out or jump away.
This sounds completely fine if attached to a surgery. Why paralyze a patient if they shouldn't feel? Because the movement would be worse. But this requires stakes and a professional to be monitoring, it makes the most sense coming from a purely medical perspective where a team of professionals are there every second with your best interests at heart.
So it sounds good. It sounds surgical and elegant for a modern society. In reality it became a crutch, rather than identify when things failed to rectify it, the same paralytic is used to pretend nothing is wrong by foregoing the expert with instruments to detect that.
Yeah the paralytic is important so there isn’t gasping and brain stem activity creating agonal breathing which is distressing for the executioner and witnesses. That’s why the states that have tried to switch to a opioid/benzo mix (Dulidid and Versed) which while deadly, can take quite some time to stop the heart and brain (opioid overdose deaths are from respritory failure, and while painless, it’s ugly and traumatic for everyone involved)
What’s also really sad about the Joe Nathan James case is that the victim’s family actually protested against the execution. They tried to appeal it and spoke out against it several times, but were denied.
It’s relatively common that the victims of violent crimes don’t want to see their victimizers killed or tortured. There are examples of people who do want to see criminals killed for harming them but many grass roots organizations exist that see victims advocate against the death penalty and even prison as we know it. It’s more common then you’d think and then you’ve been led to believe.
@@Frizzleman I suppose if death or pain has affected you so badly by that point, you wouldn't want to see any more of it, even if done to the victimiser
@@Frizzleman Stuff like this stopped surprising me when I learned of the “American Rule” and the existence of a bail bond *industry.*
Executions are fictional. Speaking out about killing and/or how its marketed?
@@Frizzleman yes I’d know. I’m a victim myself. But I also live in Canada, so the death penalty wouldn’t even be an option. And if I was in the US I wouldn’t want the offender to receive it. My guess is news/media outlets don’t want to report on victims/victims’ families protesting against offenders death penalties due to the “optics”. Pretty messed up.
I remember arguing with my parents about why I'm against the death penalty.
(My main reasons are, "killing is wrong no matter who dies, it's often torturous and sometimes people who didn't do the crime end up on the death penalty.")
My parents' argument against the last point was, "Oh, how often does that happen?" Which is like saying, "Sometimes the innocent must be sacrificed for the greater good."
No! Even one innocent person dying is too many! I cannot accept this argument.
Then the money required to house them in prison for life can come out of your paycheck.
@@ShortArmOfGod Oh, the age-old "Money is more important than human life" argument. If you have so many people in jail for life that you can't afford to house them all, maybe you're doing something wrong.
It costs more to execute someone than keep them in prison for life. This has been confirmed in many different studies.
Do you accept innocent people incarcerated for decades, or for the rest of their lives? Why is "even one" not too many in that case? Or further, why is "even one innocent person" forced to pay a fine for a crime he did not commit not too many?
@@ShankarSivarajan It is. Innocent people should NEVER go to jail for something they didn't do. Especially considering how horribly criminals are treated in jail. The fact that they do just shows you how horrible our justice system is. They put filling jail cells on a higher priority than making sure those people actually deserve to be there.
Being only paralyzed while still fully conscious and feeling everything is such a horrible thought. It is literally the perfect example of “I have no mouth, and I must scream”. Absolutely brutal…
"I have no mouth, and I must scream."*
@@linkfreemantheplumber2948 ahh thanks for the correction man, you are right! I’ll edit it now (:
shit, wonder how the people he raped and murdered felt. "absolutely brutal" indeed
it's fast over, in I have no mouth and I must scream it lasts eons
damn I sure hate A.I. progress
The funny thing is, the lethal injection, rated objectively, is EXTREMELY inhumane
- You're brought into a small, secluded chamber with a window, you can't se through but now you'l be watched without knowing who watches
- You're strapped onto a medical stretcher
- You're forced to witness how several needles are set up into your body
- You're forced to feel how some sort of chemical is pumped into your body (at this point, you are still 100% concious and aware)
- And then the actual horror begings, as the sedatives you got pumped into you will usually cause onlookers to think you lose conciousness but actually, you're just getting paralized while still being concious
The lethal injection is not a method of a quick and humane death, it's a method of killing someone slowly and very painfully AFTER the person had to live through a mock execution (what in itself is rated as White Torture).
And that's after sitting on Death Row for years or even decades, knowing you're about to die but not knowing when and constantly still having the glimmer of hope that you MIGHT be pardoned, what in itself also already is psychological torture
There's nothing 'clean' or 'humane' about how 'we' execute people 'we' think should not be alive.
This is something the GDR tried to avoid. Their method was called 'unexpected shot from close range'. You were led to a chamber, seemingly routine, you were informed that you are condemned to death and another warden steps up behind you and shoot you in the neck. Still gruesome and barbaric, but it at least spared the victim the slow, drawn out process of the lethal injection.
@@Skaldewolf Honestly that is more humane as death comes unexpectedly so there is no fear, still I am against death penalty but remember barbaric does not always mean more inhumane after all avoiding death penalty looking gruesome is done for the onlookers not the prisoner
Now go through--with as much detail--exactly what the murderer did to his/her victim(s) to be given the death penalty.
@@Hambo325 you would kill a lot of innocents in court cases it is also decided if you're guilty of the crime along with stuff such as responsibility if you take away the need for a court case you essentially give the government a kill someone I don't like button and that is dangerous.
On a side-note humane is meant to mean painless, as in the standards you should hold a human at
@@perniciouspete4986 if death penalty's reason for existence is vengeance we should give victims a torture room and led them act as they wish, it would make more sense than the state killing people as if it was painless. Either one or the other but not a weird middle point that makes people think it is to avoid crime
So, 2 things have always *BAFFLED* me about this issue. 1: I have had many pets, sadly had to have them put to sleep due to extreme illness, and "put to sleep" actually is a good way of phrasing it. One minute hugging buddy one last time, next, not. No fuss. 2: I have had quite a few surgeries lately (15 in 2 years: it's a long story) and being medically curious I asked the anesthesiologist about the chems used, how they work: science is fun, right? And then he said something to the effect of "but don't worry at all: i'll be right there beside you the whole time." "Eh? That's sweet of you, but, if other people need you, please, go help them. Heck, how would I know anyway, right? Haha." "No no, I meant monitoring all the machines that keep you breathing and, well, alive." And then, a few mins later in my last 10 seconds or so of consciousness, as I could feel the meds forcing me to 'sleep' I remember wondering then, as I do right now, "why don't, for crimes, we just give like 4x this dose to be extra sure, and then NOT use the life saving drug and just... go to sleep? Isn't that FINALLY a fairly 'civilized' way to do it? Like, morals aside, only methodology examined here. And I brought this thought up with a veterinarian friend who said that's basically what they do for pets, tweaked a bit for cat and dog metabolism etc.
So... yeah: why don't we just do that? I can say from firsthand experience: it seems quite ...gentle.
The video mentioned the American doctors' association barring it. So the answer is narcissistic top-down politics. Doctors are assuredly too fancy to participate and they'll make sure others fall in line by holding their license hostage.
I mean, sadism is kinda deeply ingrained in the prison system, so I'd be surprised if they went with a more humane route
Well frankly it is much easier to kill a dying animal than it is to kill a healthy animal. I mean that literally.
As he said in the video, properly trained medical professionals can't take part in executions, so you only ever have non trained people trying to find the vein and often can't. Anesthesia won't work if it's not properly administered.
@@publicguy1664 I mean, during surgery they have one person, an anesthesiologist, whose job is to administrator all those drugs so it has to be super complicated right? There's no way a random person can do that.
Ironically enough, there's a method of execution from the barbaric medieval era that is probably a lot less barbaric and painful (both physically and psychologically) than most of these supposedly modern methods. Namely, execution by the sword.
The 'humane' method was like a bit of theatre.
When the victim was brought onto the stage, the executioner and a servant would greet them unarmed, the sword hidden from view in a basket or cabinet. The executioner would greet the condemned, ask their forgiveness, and then he would ask the servant to go fetch his sword. The servant would then leave the stage and go off in some other direction, and when the victim watched the servant go, the executioner would quietly retrieve his sword and kill them by decapitation.
The idea was to spare the victim from the mental anguish of anticipating their death approaching, the little bit of theatre with the servant and hidden sword to give some comfort in the idea that they still had some time before their death was going to come.
In isolation this doesn't really seem very humane either, it's still an execution after all, but when comparing it to hours of being strapped into a chair with belts, with a helmet and electricity or needles and chemicals, I know what I'd rather go through.
A modern version of this could use a gun, many guns maybe, from hidden holes in the walls or something
@@elnico5623The modern version should be a ban on the death penalty.
@@JeantheSecond-ip7qm why?
@@priusqueef2505 Because the death penalty is inherently inhumane and barbaric, existing only to provide 'panem et circenses/bread and circuses' to the archonic sovereigns that "govern" us, the demiurges who think themselves infallible gods.
But of course, I sense that you don't want to hear that.
@@elnico5623en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genickschussanlage
This is the longest Fallout: New Vegas dialogue interaction I've ever had. Complete with the long closeup of Jacob and his stationary hand gestures.
Take my like and leave
Now I want to play new Vegas. I’m supposed to be writing, damn it!!!
fuck now i want to play new vegas
It's almost as long as a quick chat with Ulysses
When you stop by the old morman fort for some meds but end up getting lectured on execution for an hour
The thing about the iron maiden is, if one did exist and was used for torture, it would not be designed the way they are depicted. A properly designed iron maiden would have a space in the center just big enough for the victim to stand in without getting punctured by the spikes or with only minor punctures. The torture comes in from them having to stand there for hours and days. If they rest or sleep, they'd fall into the spikes.
There were similar torture methods used in the middle ages, they would throw the victim down an incredibly small hole with barely enough room to stand. Often times these holes would have standing water covering the feet or crevices that allow rats from the castle to enter the hole.
So basically the Chokey from Matilda.
@@nomousecat I've never seen Matilda.
It's called an oubliette. Basically just a hole you throw someone in and forget about them. Honestly, that's how the entire penal system has always functioned... or mental health system or poorhouses... at the end of the day, it's not about punishment so much as taking all these corners of society that don't fit, lopping them off, and then putting them somewhere that they can be safely forgotten about.
@@vectorwolf as someone who's been in the mental health system, that's exactly what it is.
Entire scientific community: The electric chair is not what you claim it is and almost always leads to botched executions that cause immense suffering and can actually be very messy.
The American judicial system: No
"Almost always" You do realize that even the creator of the video, who is staunchly against the death penalty, literally admits at 16:25 that the electric chair is less error-prone than hanging? The most error-prone method by far is regarded to be the gas chamber...
@@stefan4159the most error prone method is lethal injection, he said that.
Executions are fictional. Botched executions aka lobotomies?
Eh still beats living another day
@stefan4159 Why are you bringing up hanging and gas? They are specifically talking about the electric chair. Also that’s a logical fallacy. Breaking 1 femur bone is better than 2, but that doesn’t mean the 1st option is a pleasant one.
It was never about finding a more humane way of execution, just a way that makes the public and politicians feel less guilty.
Every time I thought that this video wouldn’t get more barbaric and horrifying, it did. Fantastic video as always.
This video came out 50 minutes ago, how did you comment yesterday?
@@idkwhattonamemyself6357 Patreon. 7$ subscription allows early video access (it sounded like an ad right now, but okay)
That’s a Jacob Geller video sometimes for ya
Yes, as long as we recognize the sin it's cool to engage in it
@@gorn5264 ah
Yes, the guillotine is demonstrably the most painless and foolproof of execution methods, and it was Dr. Guillotin 's entire intention. But indeed, the device looks so barbaric I can remember being scared of it as a child. (Doesn't exactly help it was introduced in the period of the French Revolution that was literally called the Reign of Terror). As a result, France just abolished the death penalty entirely. Perfectly sums up the point of your essay. They had reached the ultimate painless end, and still ditched it because fuck that, it makes the judiciary look barbaric.
Guillotine was introduced shortly before the Reign of Terror, was used widely during it, and in the aftermath most of the Jacobins were executed with guillotine. Death penalty wasn't abolished after fall of Robespierre, and his reign of terror was followed by a period of terror led by Thermidorian reactionaries. Guillotine was used to carry out death penalties in France well into 20th century (iirc last execution was in 1970s)
@@user-rb4wu7bl5t Yeah, everything you said was correct. I didn't include the precise timeline in my comment, just wanted to convey the general vibe why it got thrown out of of the french judicial system along the death penalty altogether.
Nah. A single rifle shot at close range is quicker. Guillotine victims were conscious for several seconds. A rifle bullet destroys the brain.
@@user-rb4wu7bl5t in 1977, the same year the first Star Wars movie came out
@@omega2279 "the guillotine is demonstrably the most painless and foolproof of execution method" It is not. The brain can be alive and feeling for up to a minute after.
Wrote a paper on this and decided that the most “humane” method of capital punishment we’ve actually used is a firing squad. Can’t botch that. Ended up advocating against capital punishment but nitrogen asphyxiation is actually pain free, they clearly just don’t want to give a painless death.
except for that one mexican guy who lived threw and escaped a botched firing squad attempt but yknow
@@Sleepy_CabbageWho? I'd love to read about that, it sounds fascinating!
@@KaspYAR Wenceslao Moguel
@@Sleepy_Cabbage that’s wild. I think I came across that but forgot. There’s always that one guy.
@@Sleepy_Cabbagewell every single form of execution has it’s outliers. we should just abolish government sanctioned execution (and also the prison system as it currently functions but shhhh)
I used to waver the line on supporting the death penalty. This video was the main turning point in my current opposition to capital punishment. To Mr. Geller, thank you for this disturbing yet informative and greatly necessary essay.
The discussion surrounding the death penalty and the search for a most "humane" way to kill someone always reminds me of something my (german) history teacher used to tell us frequently: "Humans are great at many things, but they are best at finding new ways to kill each other"
He said this during classes on the french revolution, WW1 and WW2 if I remember correctly. People will always find ways to make murder more "efficient", meaning, killing large amounts of people fast. Claiming that any way to forcefully take another persons life could be considered humane is just a way of justifying murdering them at all.
Your teacher was correct. Humans are inclined towards efficiency even when it is not needed. Often our strive for efficency leads to crulety and creates issues where there was none.
I wouldn't say that humans will always strive for more "efficient" ways to mass murder. I'd argue that this strive for an efficient, clean way of killing people is the flip side of the enlightenment. We were promised, that we could control nature by scientifically exploring it (which is great by the way). But this achievement has a really dark side: we as humans are also part of the nature, even though we may often think that we are above it. And so our death is part of that, too. And in the end, this led us into places like Auschwitz, Majdanek, Sobibor and many others.
@@Tiny_Koi but to be fair its also has lead us to the point in history of the lowest amount of human suffering ever. war sucks but the fairy tale we are all the same has just deluded people to why we have war.
So, the second drug in the lethal injection cocktail has absolutely no benefit for the person being executed and the drug's sole purpose is, in fact, to make the victim unable to convey how much agony they're in if something goes wrong, just so that the people _administering_ the drug can feel better about themselves?
I didn't think that I could be surprised anymore by the level of sheer indifference and contempt we have over convicted criminals in America, but somehow this little bit of knowledge was enough to make my blood boil.
Who do you think receive the death sentence? Afraid you'll join then as a kiddie diddler?
I guess it also provides a second way to kill the person if the execution is sufficiently bungled. A paralytic can also cause suffocation. 😬
This is why we go back to hanging.
Here’s the deal about Death Row. If you made it to Death Row, then you’ve gotta be a seriously screwed up person who did a seriously screwed up thing, so I’d be pretty indifferent as to what happens to people like that. However there is a caveat. And it is that there are, on occasion, innocent people who are sentenced to death via false conviction. The existence of those falsely convicted people creates a pretty compelling argument to not sentence people to death.
@@painhurtssometimes2185 You know, there are countless studies that show that being softer on crime and treating convicted criminals like human beings actually makes crime go down across the board. That's what happens when the main focus of your criminal justice system is public safety and not retribution.
Incredible, over time our forms of executions have become more terrifying; more painful, and the pain less visible.
At least back then they didn't fucking lie. They just chopped off your head. They even invited everyone to come and watch. Now everything is hidden, and the suffering is blocked from view so people don't know what's happening. That to me, in a weird way, is so much worse. Because we aren't actually getting better. We're just getting better at hiding our awfulness and thats making it possible to be even worse.
I mean i've always thought the firing squad is the best way. How are chemicals illegal in warefare, where guns aren't. It's because in most cases a bullet to the head is a quick death, sadly the guidelines as far as I know mean a bullet to the heart, which means the death isn't completely instantaneous. The man killed by a firing squad in 2010 is the same guy who watched the lotr trilogy as his last request, along with like a proper fine dine dinner. He may have been unstable, a murderer, a robber, somewhat sociopathic, but the man was smart in his choice.
The problem with the firing squad is that most people miss, intentionally or accidentally. There's a not insignificant risk that it's won't be a fast or "clean" way to go. Check out Lt Col Dave Grossman's book on that if you're curious.
@@PrimroseDying Besides the obvious issue of missing, what about all other execution methods failing, like electric chair, the very first use of it for example, or numerous others failures, doesn't that violate the right against cruel or unusual punishment? And have courts dished out punishment for failure in duty and infringement of that right?
@@SloppyPuppyif they get it right Electric Chair is pretty instantaneous
@andrewsmith3257 that's a huge "If". They don't get it right. We must always assume they're not going to get it right
The weirdest thing about the death penalty is that we already know of an entirely painless way to kill people, inhaling gases like helium, your body still gets rid of co2 so you never feel like you are dying, you just get tired and fall asleep
The cruelty is a feature, not a side effect
Being shot in the head at point blank range is also pretty damn painless. But again, it looks ugly for the 'spectators'
@@jessegauthier6985 you'd be surprised how many people actually dont die instantly from a shot to the head!
@@Robothuck No, I wouldn't be.
@@Robothuck Exceptions, not the rule.
@@Robothuck then shoot again, the beauty of a gun is that you have multiple bullets in it. Still better than watching someone chemical burn to death for 30 minutes.
“To see a murder carried out at a leisurely pace in front of a crowd, was to recognize that the institution doing the killing was unquestionable.” CHILLS. The parallels to today’s political climate is truly disturbing, thanks for making and sharing such profound insights.
I used to be an international relations major so we studied in-depth all kinds of legitimacy for government. Brutality and cruelty was to suppress and keep in total control citizens in authoritarian regimes. It’s never about justice or fairness, it’s always about forced compliance and chilling any kind of freedom. Something people don’t really know is that these things can also cause uprisings from citizens, and that’s exactly what you see from the black community in the US. It makes me so sick to my stomach how much of the media does the heavy lifting of authoritarianism by the way they cover these extremely valid protests and uprisings. It’s disheartening to see how many Americans openly support brutality and authoritarianism while in the same breath screech about “freedom.”
@@Sarah-re7cg Yeah, Democrats suck, alright.
@@Sarah-re7cg the reason they feel that way is almost always because of a lack of understanding or a straight up refusal to attempt to understand.
@@Sarah-re7cg Sorry, why do you say *was*? Your nation (and most others) is working around the clock to suppress its citizens with the threat of brutality and the fear of three dozen non-existent threats. Yet, the mass media holds up suicide-by-cop drug addicts as modern day saints, which people actually collect donations (lucky they all Bought Large Mansions and are going bankrupt without a cent of that going to any worthwhile cause), erect shrines and idols (plenty of video evidence, goes well with a voiceover of Exodus 32), stage riots (with such twisted coverage that people now use "mostly peaceful" to mean "total boogaloo") and pray on behalf of/to.
There wouldn't have been any riots if your media giants had just ignored it like they do all black-on-black and black-on-white crime.
@@Sarah-re7cg The media will validate and stoke the fire of one protest, and ignore or vilify another.
You are showing your bias with your "extremely valid" protest comment.
What makes a protest valid or invalid?
Who is the arbiter of legitimacy?
What justifies the violent targeting of a specific race, social class or belief system?
How exactly does violent rioting, looting and arson become "extremely valid" protest?
Your indoctrination is showing.
Worldwide, capital punishment was common, an efficient punishment and delivery of justice to the victims. For the entire history of humanity, it is nothing new or novel. What is new and novel is warehousing offenders for life. Even worse is releasing these same violent offenders on parole to re-offend, creating more victims. Recidivism rates do confirm the vast majority of these convicts will fall back into their same patterns and victimization.
The real world is ugly, humans are violent to one another, if you want to live in a peaceful society, you must have a functional justice system. Violent individuals need to be removed from society and the punishment should eliminate the possibility of repeat offense.
The simple fact is that you live in a peaceful society because of the justice system you despise.
If you want to live in your perceived utopia, go into a failed state, one with no functional government or official justice system. You will quickly find that vigilante groups are far less concerned about due process or making things comfortable for the offender. Take your pick, someone is going to do it if the state does not. That someone will probably not be accountable to you nor will you have any vote or say in the matter.
Go visit a third world country in civil war, see how terrible the USA is in comparison. The truth is that you are a spoiled and entitled brat that wants to tear down the society that has kept you safe.
Here in Germany we don't have the death penalty.
A humane death is a nonsense phrase in itself.
You can't take back a death.
Germany has the opposite problem, tho. Extremely laxist to the point of protecting mass rapists and serial killers instead of protecting the average citizen against these monsters.
Good point indeed.
@@debesys6306 Here's the problem : in most countries where death penalty has been abolished, prison sentence also became more lenient over time, and first degree murderers getting out after 20 years of imprisonment (many years yes, but nowhere near enough for someone who murdered an innocent in cold blood) is the norm and no longer the exception.
@@KalashVodka175
I can't speak for every country, but here the why and how of a murder is extremely important.
A abused wife who kills her tormentor, is treated differently than a man who killed someone in a failed robbery to feed his family or a lunatic who killed a girl or a man who cold-heartedly killed a prostitute.
The later two would be up for psychologists to evaluate.
If the potential of them hurting anyone else were to high they would be contained in a special facility.
@@das8.kapitel260
Hence the notion of degrees of murder : A first degree murder is committed with malicious intent and is premeditated.
Regardless, the problem stays the same, and is one that has plagued all of europe in recent "moralist" years including Germany : prison sentences are way too lenient, WAAAAY too lenient against irremeedable monsters, and as a result child molesters inevitably get out of prison after small sentences (relative to their horrific crimes) only to commit the exact same thing once freed. Same goes for murderers, rapists, organized criminals etc.
A justice system that is too lenient against violent criminals is one that is failing to protect its citizens and failing to uphold justice. Thus, it is intrinsically an unfair, unjust system perpetuating a hateful cycle against regular peoples who become victim of this lack of justice.
Fun fact: The most replayed part of this video is the bit where he names the woman who was the first to be photographed on the electric chair. So everyone listened to his description and collectively decided they needed to look up the picture, and didn't remember the name to do so.
Humanity=Scum
Tragedy thrills me...
I know I did that 😂
Probably because taking in information while also trying to remember something is quite difficult
Not that deep? If the name mentioned was “The first Canadian to do a backflip” and I decided after hearing the description I wanted to look up the person I still would have to go back to find the name because it turns out when we’re faced with a lot of information at once we tend to remember descriptions, not names, dates and figures. If anything, people are putting in the effort to remind themselves of her name rather than just searching “first picture of electric chair execution” which is the alternative when you happen to miss someone’s name in a 50 minute video essay.
"finally, we've removed ourselves from barbarity by simply delegating the barbarism to a system responsible only to itself"
A painful statement
That’s only with the understanding that killing under any circumstances is barbaric, that’s wrong.
Would thumbs up but don't want to ruin the 69 likes
@@SinHurr do it now and it wil be 100
Not really powerful when he's basically saying that every single time a cop killed someone it was barbaric which is just blatantly false. He really tried to act like every cop killing was an execution done solely because they wanted to play judge jury and executioner and acted like no cop can kill in self defense
@@timmyhoward6638and saying that delegation to a just civil authority is equally as moral as the punisher going on a tear, even if he wasnt all to sure if they were guilty
Almost surreal to see them admit the precarity of our criminal legal system "Yeah, these findings are pretty damning but we're going to ignore that because it would be inconvenient."
Judging by your profile pic I doubt you genuinely care about state executions.
@@AsymmetricalCrimes Then you have poor judgment and do not understand what it represents.
I also can't help but notice that this response neatly sidesteps the actual existing issues our society has in favor of a hypothetical and personal aspersion. Beautiful.
"I'm not gonna address this problem because it's inconvenient and unprofitable" sums up a whole lot of law, criminal and civil.
Replying to say I like your pfp
@@nondescriptname what is the pfp about? I don't recognize it.
Nine months after this video was uploaded, the US brought back nitrogen gas for the death penalty
And the state that does it now is telling everyon|: "we can help you set it up"
And, apparently, they messed it up. ;>_>
i was looking for a comment about this. i watched this video not long after it came out and didnt feel much except for being bolstered in my anti death penalty opinion that, i honestly think any reasonable person has
but after reading that story this video is so much more grim. its staring us in the face that this isnt over, and its getting worse, not better
Been thinking about this a lot lately as the state of Alabama just killed a man with nitrogen gas, the first recorded use of this method of execution by any government.
On Valentine's Day 2022 I was the victim of a drive by shooting by a total stranger. The bullet went straight to the spinal cord and instantly paralyzed me, leaving me with no function or feeling below my spine. I was completely conscious the entire time.
In retrospect though, what feels weird about the experience of having my spine severed is that it hurt surprisingly little. I felt a sort of body-wide electric shock, but the entire experience was so fast that the minutes I was waiting for an ambulance were pain free -- though they were very much NOT stress free!
My input as someone whose had their spine severed: I'd take the guillotine. Preferably with a nice sedative pill administered orally ahead of time, IE an Ambien or some kind of benzo. The instant removal of nervous sensation means that you don't really feel the violent injury going on. While I personally oppose capital punishment because I think the multi year waiting game of death row is already cruel & unusual, if it's my time I'll take the blade to the neck.
There is like a 20 second period of apparent consciousness following decapitation by guillotine. Is that… I mean, do you really prefer that?
@@greanbeen2816 Did the talking head tell that to you?
@@greanbeen2816I could be misreading as I'm on very little sleep, but I believe their point was that due to nerve severance there was little pain, so even with 20 seconds of conciousness an ambien to reduce stress would make it better than any of these methods. Sorry that other guy was rude to you btw, I have no idea if the the consciousness thing is true but it should be explained nicely lol.
Dude I don't know. That comment hit diffrent. You decribed it in a way that really got into my head... that is a real absurde and scary feeling.. I hope you're doing good, man.
@@storm6661 dude i love your vibe. You are a nice person.
29:25 - Hits a bit too close to home as one such kid who has fallen into a campfire. I was about 8 years old. About 2 decades later and I still have the scars. Saying it's "not fun" would only be a minor understatement.
I've received a number of injuries over the years, but that might just be the one that takes the cake. Nothing like falling onto your back and arms to find that yours skin has melted into hot coals which are now partially embedded in your flesh and continue to cook you. Thankfully my father had the presence of mind to pick me up and run me as fast as possible to a water spout at that camp site to cool the burn area (and coals). It wasn't until more than an hour later when we had finally driven off the mountain and to a hospital that those coals were finally removed. It's odd, a 3rd degree burn is supposedly supposed to cause such extreme damage that you can't feel anything. And I couldn't for the most part-- but pain, that was still present. I could still feel pain on those spots. The next.... year or two I believe (apologies, it's been a while, so the time-frame is a bit hard for me to remember) would consist of various weekly to monthly visits to a burn center for regular checkups and an eventual procedure to close an open wound on my arm that resembled a pit (where a coal had embedded quite well). Overall, my grade-school years were quite fun!
All that context to say: I wouldn't wish that on anyone ever again. I'm quite happy to have that left the past and only some scars to remember it by. The only thing I could think of that would be worse is if the coals were a liquid and injected INTO my arm...
thats brutal
I hope you are doing ok
@@GRIMkyzic you too bestie
Thank you for illustrating that, when Jacob mentioned that statement I couldn't imagine the horrid pain. It's sincerely brutal and I'm sad that you or anybody had to suffer that. On the other hand, it makes the defeat of Anakin that more gruesome. lmao
@@royareyzabal823 Lol, you make a good point.
Prison is more about profit and sadism than it is rehabilitation. It's disgusting. There are some crimes that I feel are irredeemable but I have no right to dictate who lives and who dies.
Jezz, this was a grim topic throughout, but the ending still took a dark turn. The picture that you were painting in my head was basically that from Judge Dredd. The similarities to short process executions, that we only really know from war times, still being very much alive on the streets today. I never really thought about police brutality in the context of capital punishment.
I consider myself at least somewhat knowledgeable on this topic and I had no idea that all those American medical organisations had officially condemned lethal injections. That feels like the first thing people should be told when they learn that the death sentence is still a thing.
It’s been a while and I’m not sure who said this, but a veterinarian commented on lethal injection by saying that he would be prosecuted if he euthanized an animal that way.
@@dwinthrop1015 well yes. We aren't euthanizing criminals though.
It's a fundamentally different situation
@@marvalice3455 So in your opinion is not enough to kill the prisoner and we should torture them beforehand?
Even if sometimes the one convicted is innocent?
@@unaif.2171 No.
But what do you think is justice for the worst crimes people can commit? In your opinion?
@@marvalice3455 "No. But yes"
I always thought of iron maiden as something that forced you to stay perfectly still. You can't relax, can't lean on anything, you're closed in it for hours or even days without being able to move an inch without being impaled, so makes perfect sense for me as a torture device.
I took a European history class in college once and thats exactly what they taught us it did
yeah i always pictured that the spikes were only long enough to just barely poke into you unless you moved closer but maybe not
the main issue is that, upon the door being closed, it would instantly pierce your lungs, heart, brain, throat, all sorts of things that you really need to stay alive.
I'm sorry, I accidentally un-niced your comment my liking it from 69 to 70
Hang on, that explanation for how it'd serve as torture just triggered a memory in my brain. Roald Dahl's Matilda featured that exact description of Trunchbull's torture room!
Very good and useful work. I live in France, where capital sentence has ended in 1981, and where killings by cops are becoming more and more prevalent. Your conclusion hits home, even here.
Yo you a real one for this. "We're the land of the free, so long as you don't count the millions of us who are constitutionally enslaved" is mad BARS
Jacob - "How do you think an iron maiden worked?"
*Me, laying in bed covered in Dorito dust, slightly out of breath from sitting up out of interest* - "Fuck me Jacob I dunno"
Galloping basslines and twin guitar harmonies
Best comment
I'm in this picture and I don't like it
Nice.
Every time I saw an Iron Maiden, I wondered how you close the doors. It just didn't seem possible.
The movie Twelve Angry Men really never really says it explicitly, but at it's core the message is that we allow the death penalty simply out of apathy. It's convenient to look the other way, which is why one person on the jury refusing to convict when the other eleven want to eventually sways the decision. His continued insistence means it's ultimately no longer convenient to look away, so they all look again and change their minds.
It also underlines how the death penalty will always leave a margin of innocents that will be killed because they were wrongly convicted. And in my mind, no civilised society should risk killing innocent people in order to punish the guilty
I swear that movie is so good
they pruposly select lazy and stupid jurrys and as soon as one "jury nullifys" they are out jury duty for life.
Maybe the movie is different from the play but from what I remember from the play is that it’s about racism no?
@@charzssd Partially, yes. Because the man is black, it is easier to turn their heads and let him die. Had there not been the man who lacked the same apathy he would be dead by their, and the justice system's hands.
"It is better that 100 guilty persons escape than that one innocent should suffer."
-Ben Franklin
I hate to break it to you, but one guilty person causes dozens of innocents to suffer. Now, one hundred guilty people? Your society is fuuuuucked.
@@SyndicateOperative well i can think of at least 487 guilty people off the top of my head
Why do people parrot garbage like this? That is the one of the dumbest quote i have yet heard
I've long been an opponent of execution of criminals. I'm from northern Europe, and it didn't even occur to me that capital punishment was taking place in the western world until I was a teenager. It's a morbidly fascinating concept to me, and I've spent many hours researching about the death penalty since I was fourteen. Your points in this essay seem to perfectly tie up the opinions I have, but have been unable to coherently verbalise due to how complicated the whole matter is. The whole iceberg of executions is one of many things I find odd about the US. One of many relics of the 1800's that have died out in the rest of the western world, but somehow remain intact in the states. It has made me wonder, what the true underlying incentive is? Who's gaining from it? It's not the population. Strict punishment has continually proven to be linked to higher offending- and reoffending rates. The best explanation I've come up with is that just as the USA is seen by many as an international protector of democracy, an international all-righteous police force, leaders within feel the need to project this same facade towards its own population. A reminder that the state has the right to do things you aren't, and there's nothing you can do about it.
The fiction and/or how its used?
Jacob's first video I watched: "Hey check out these cool games that give mad spooky house vibes"
Jacob now: "Let's take a deep dive into the psycho-social effects of execution"
I love seeing this channel tackle more and more abstract and challenging ideas, each video gives even more opportunity to see his talent.
Bad ass, I love it
he was always like this bruh
he always has and always will do both lol
@@lilyofluck371 Quite often at the same time
Kevin of VSauce 2 has had a similar arc.
VSauce 2 several years ago: Fun little side content of VSauce talking about math paradoxes and oddities
VSauce 2 now: How police and governments incorrectly and/or inappropriately use math and analytics in ways that fuck people over.
The excerpt on Pancuronium Bromide immediately calls to mind a particular episode of Doctor Who, one of the final ones during Capaldi's run, where one of the characters is stuck in a hospital. All of the patients there are hooked up to an IV, their bodies completely covered, only able to communicate through words on what's basically a soundboard. "Pain" is one of those words, and we see it repeated by one until the nurse comes in and turns a dial on top of the IV. The audience and character would both presume that it was increasing the medicine dripping through their veins until we move up and get a look.
That dial was labelled "Volume." Their suffering didn't matter, only whether or not you could hear it.
One of those weird moments of *perfect* horror that dr who comes out with sometimes.
Has a very early Twilight Zone vibe to it
Yeah i remember it, truly horrifoc
wtf is Doctor Who about?? I never imagined it'd have that type of content, I just thought it was about the story of this weird entity that reincarnated in a body or something.
@@royareyzabal823
I can't speak to the original series but the reboot series (2005) is a sci-fi show where a person named The Doctor flies around in his ship through time and space, often with a companion, and encounters neat sci-fi stuff that he can solve through being clever and hopeful. Each incarnation have different specific vibes, but the heart of a lot of it is that he helps anyone in need, not for a reward or affection, but because he's *there* and he *can help*. Being the last of his kind (kinda sorta) and being someone who has a significant amount of blood on his hands from looong ago informs a lot of his deep empathy.
But also, it's just an often goofy lil sci-fi show where you get to see neat things and cool ideas since nothing is really off limits.
The line about our prison population being constitutionally enslaved earned you one more subscriber from me. This is my first video of yours I've come across and I will always subscribe to those that are willing to spit facts, no matter how hard or cold they may be.
People love to think slavery was abolished after the civil war, but in actuality they just compromised and added a clause in the Constitution to keep it around and renamed it to save public image.
All states without exception own their subjects.
Ah yes, I remember when the pre-civil war slaves were kept by plantation owners because they robbed convenience stores
@@SkitGamingdo you think people who rob convenience stores deserve to be put to forced labour? Do you think slaves had to prove a degree of moral upstanding to earn their freedom?
@@iplayeddishonored2475 One of these people has committed a crime, the other happened to be born in the wrong place at the wrong time
The story of lethal injection is classic dark-Americana imo. The shocking brutality and cruelty, under the guise of humanity and compassion, delivered at incredible financial and ethical cost, clouded by careerism and incompetence. So many of the same themes as our involvement in Vietnam.
Also, team firing-squad ftw
Yes
The problem with "judge, jury, and executioner" with regards to modern police is that it's in the wrong order. The execution comes first, then the judgment, then the court of public opinion. Like everything else about this trend, it primarily serves to make the whole process more convenient, palatable, and ignorable; as a nice bonus, even if the judge or jury decide not to convict, the execution has already been carried out regardless.
Great framing, I agree
Except you’re ignoring the pertinent issue, timing. If someone threatens violence/murder, how many chances do you give them to back down? If you act too soon, you might’ve killed someone who could’ve been talked down, and at worst someone innocent. If you don’t act soon enough, then you just gave a criminal another opportunity to attack and harm/kill someone else. It’s easy to talk from the sidelines and label it all as “execution” because you’ll never be under that pressure. It’s much different when you’re in that situation and have to make that call. Of which they have to _judge_ first before doing. And the window to do so always varies. You never know how much time you have to work with.
@@mrshmuga9
From what I could find, violent/murderous crimes account for around 5% of all crimes which is not as often as you're making it sound. Police also have access to less-than-lethal equipment, backup, and SWAT teams if the situation escalates, as well as they should already have training for these types of situations. "Timing" also doesn't seem like a very good excuse, as if the person was already killing, they'd already have murdered the person/people by the time the police get there (to my knowledge, 10 mins is average for critical/emergency) and if they haven't, the police can stall until a proper plan has been made because if the suspect hasn't killed in the 10 mins, there's a chance they can be talked down.
And as far as I know, the U.S. Supreme Court has also ruled that police have no specific/constitutional obligation to protect.
@@DustyOrange one issue with that is the fact that police departments have lost a lot of funding over the past several years, and with many officers quitting, current officers have lower levels of training and often less access to less than lethal options. and while yes most officers have tazers, they are not reliable enough for every case, and are usually only deployed when there is lethal cover to back it up.
@@mrshmuga9
Framing police killings as split second decisions where an innocent victim's life was immediately at stake and the police have arrived just in the nick of time is exactly how you'd expect a cop to frame the issue. Like a TV crime drama.
It's also completely absurd and patently dishonest. There are vanishingly few situations in which you can save someone currently under attack by unloading on the attacker. You're much more likely to hit the "hostage" and other bystanders in addition to the attacker. Which is, of course, often the result of police shootings. Cops have, statistically, very poor aim.
Which isn't even touching on the fact that the police are often the ones escalating the situation to violence in the first place. Police kill even when no one was being attacked as they arrived.
Your "pertinent" issue of timing is fiction.
I was hoping you'd address gunshot/decapitation execution, and indeed you did: it's absolutely about the aesthetic, not the function. If people ACTUALLY cared about delivering a humane, quick death, then those two would so easily be the top methods.
i think most humane cheap and clean would be gas chamber/mask pumped with inert gas like nitrogen or helium, you only feel suffocation and panic because of c02, these gasses displace oxyegen and you don't produce c02 so your brain doesnt know it isnt gettibg oxygen. like carbon monoxide is the "silent killer" because you pass out and dont wake up
True. Destroy the brain in a single action like it's done to cattle.
Decapitation,while rare, might not cause instant death .
One of the last executions by firing squad in Norway took place in 1947. The police unit who were to take part in the firing squad had already executed two people the previous year and suffered trauma from the event. Because of this, and because of growing opposition to the death penalty, the police department vigourously protested the sentence numerous times to the department of justice. They were overruled and were forced to carry out the executions regardless. They swiftly executed the 8 convicted men in the span of 45 minutes and the officers involved never spoke of it again, probably because they didn't want to be associated with the event or give the convicted a status of martyrdom.
The convicted men were nazi collaborators who had infiltrated the resistance movement and committed horrible acts of violence. I think most pro death penalty people would say they deserved it. However, it is quite tragic that the death penalty itself brings trauma upon those who are forced to perform the execution (and clean up the mess, etc.). It's not exactly a healing process and I think that fact is rather inescapable. The medical profession's unwillingness to touch lethal injections is the same as those police officers' unwillingness to partake in the firing squad.
@@komfyrionthen use a self-firing or time-triggered gun
The electric chair is a very strange way of killing someone. I swear I heard that it was first introduced by Edison because he wanted to show how dangerous Teslas’ AC is (as part of a personal vendetta he had on the man). It was a massive disaster the first time and several times since (I also remember hearing about a black kid who was electrocuted three times before he died. After the second he begged for it to just be over and done with, even though a lawyer thought he could win his case).
Capital punishment has one flaw: it can't be reversed. If a mistake was made, and sentenced is not guilty, there is no way back. And mistakes are made, and can't be avoided
Also the fact it doesn’t deter crime and is just a thinly veiled excuse for murder. But your right as well
You can’t really undo time served either
@@SkitGamingYou don’t NEED to, as long as the time served is time spent undergoing personal reform, guided by what should be a system which promotes reformation.
@@AMnotQ if the convicted is innocent of the crime that landed them jail time, they don’t need to be reformed and their time in prison will undoubtedly leave them worse off than if they were free
The fact that no state (to my knowledge) uses things like morphine overdose or asphyxiation by carbon monoxide, nitrogen, or even helium... all well known quick and painless or even euphoric ways to go even by accident tells you all you need to know about the political view of capital punishment. if you have natural gas service, you're all but required to have a carbon monoxide detector because of how lethal it is without even realizing that there's a problem.
I concur. Same thought. Carbon Monoxide or Fentynol OD. Quick and painless. Why are they not considered or implemented?
@@caligula1558 Carbon Monoxide is too difficult to handle for an execution, the same reason they stopped doing hydrogen cyanide executions, gas chambers were expensive and were unsafe for the staff carrying out the execution, inert gases are safer and you can use high volume extraction and ventilation systems to quickly reintroduce oxygen to the room, this should be implemented, but change in criminal justice is difficult. Fentanyl is tricky, take George Floyd as an example, the amount of fentanyl he had in his system would kill the average person, but according to all the doctors was nowhere near a lethal dose as he was an opioid addict and had built up a tolerance. I know of people who were taking 20 milligrams of fentanyl per day, that's enough to kill about 50 opioid naïve people. If you knew that was the method of execution, you could just have opioids smuggled to you in prison, build up a tolerance, then when it comes time for your execution, it doesn't work, there is also the outcry that criminals don't deserve a euphoric death, especially when people like Terry Schiavo had to literally starve to death, after having their feeding tube removed because euthanasia is illegal.
I'm trying to imagine a society that truly didn't have the means to take care of everyone sufficiently and truly had people that were so dangerous or destructive that having them killed would lead to less harm than any other means available. Yeah in that case why not try to make the death something pleasurable or quick give them proper end of life care etc
@@domvasta Imagine complaining that it was "too difficult" to kill somebody in a painless way. What a sad excuse and justification.
@@Mqxwell you don’t want more people dying as a result of unsafe working environments
1 person wrongfully put to death by the state is unacceptable. And yet, there are people who think that a 12.5% failure rate isn't evidence of a horribly flawed and barbaric practice? It is truly shameful just how lowly we think of our incarcerated peers.
I believe that those people don't necessarily think that the procedure isn't barbaric, or are disregarding the evidence as false; but rather they believe that the cruel and unusual torture of these criminals is the justice system doing its' job. I personally see it as those people believing that the cruelty of the execution is the act of justice, not a willing ignorance of facts.
The United States of America is the ONLY Western World nation that still has and uses "Death Penalty". Most other countries got rid of it, some 50 plus years ago. USA as a nation, is the only savage in the room, on this one.
welcome to America, where the libs are conservatives, the conservatives can't read, and the only influential leftists are assassinated.
I believe the death penalty should only be available if there is a zero,precent false absolute certainty that you did it, in effect i think it should be an alternative for life in prison, its far more humane then sentencing someone to at least 30 years, you are taking that persons life, in the slowest most awful way possible. it is more humane to let that man choose to die with dignity, though i doubt many would choose it.
2%*
This also comes with the issue that every execution statistically deters between 3 to 18 homicides.
At a minimum that's 150 innocents dead without the death penalty.
I'm a bit surprised you spoke on lynching without talking about Strange Fruit. A tremendously moving poem, and an even more powerful song. I honestly can't think of a better way to describe the horror of the practice. Billie Holiday is the gold standard singer for it, and you can feel generations of pain, sadness, and rage in her voice. Though I have noticed an alarming percentage of white people have no idea it exists at all considering its history and influence in the civil rights movement, and that needs to change.
Knowing that any justice system may be in one or another way flawed, that leaves room for error in justice, and methods of execution, I do not see how it's not absolutely despicable to even have the capital punishment as a legal mechanism.
A book called “Just Mercy” is required reading for my school. It chronicles a black lawyer who tries to exonerate other black people sentenced to death in the south, and both his successes and his failures. It’s a nonfiction story. Yet, throughout our reading and analysis of the entire book, the questions posed by the teacher were always “do those who suffer from mental illness deserve immunity from the death penalty” or “does [insert thing here] mitigate the severity of their crime to the point where a life sentence is more fitting”. The book is very good, but in my opinion it fails to effectively communicate the bigger picture. The subtext is obvious, that the death penalty is abhorrent, but it undermines its own point by showing mostly sympathetic cases. It seems to say “this man doesn’t deserve to die, he has a family and children”. I think it would’ve made its point better by showing the most horrible, violent, inexcusable crimes and still exposing the barbarism of subjecting them to death.
That is a really hard thing to do though. Incredibly hard. Jacob solved it by leaving out the actual crimes of those who died under capital punishment.
If you would include and describe the crimes that some of these people commited, you'd immediately alienate most of your audience.
Of course, that would be begging the question. Suggesting the death penalty is always morally wrong.
@@Casshio Truly, the easiest way to make people complicit in supporting execution is to go into gruesome details about their crimes. Peoples' brains shut off.
@Casshio I think this video is really good in how it talks about the inherent flaws with execution methods but (and admittedly i might be projecting something on to the vid that isn't there idk) there's an underlying sense throughout that Jacob believes that the death penalty is always bad. I can't know for sure if that's his opinion as he dosen't state it in the video but i feel its a safe assumption to make based off his tone throughout the video, i feel its implied in a way. I assume for most people watching you either fall onto the side of "the death penalty shouldn't exist" or "it should exist". I feel leaving out what they did makes sense because the video isn't about that but more so the inherent flaws with the systems in place buuuut at the same time the death penalty discussion will kinda always be about that wouldn't it? Whenever we talk about death penalty the ultimate final point is, is it okay to kill certain people? Thats where all roads lead to and i feel like leaving out what they did makes sense but also kinda leaves Jacob open to the criticism of why the death penalty exists in the first place. Its a fundamental flaw with the whole video that i do have trouble getting passed, regardless of how i feel about the death penalty its just feels like a cheap way to not acknowledge one of the main pillars of this ever ongoing debate. Idk if anything i just said made sense and this was kinda rambly but yeah lol i hope i got some kind of point across.
@@junebug9841 The video pivots to being about Police Brutality, so ultimately for what it is, taking a stance on the morals of the death penalty is unnecessary. Thats not so say it isnt there. The title alone should tell you all you need. The state can try all it wants to make the death penalty be more humane, more clinical, less public, but this attempted evolution is pointless and false, state sanctioned killing accomplishes nothing positive, its an inhumane act by its very essence and its declared goal of taking a life, and it will never reach a point of being executed well enough to be morally sound. It's an impossbility. Apparently this still needs to be said out loud in videos. Hopefully we'll eventually reach a point where having to say "state sanctioned killing is bad" is as unnecessary a statement as "slavery is bad" but it seems we're not there yet.
I'm so glad you've branched out beyond video games. Not that I don't enjoy your game analysis, but you're such a talented storyteller that it would be a shame to limit your scope to just one medium.
Exactly, this man has the potential to create so much good in the world
Fully agree
What? He never *just* talked about video games.
Yeah I don't care for the game stuff but his essays are amazing
bruh what the majority of his videos aren't even about games they're about wider topics that games are often a good example for among other media. For this particular essay it would obviously be wildly inappropriate and widely irrelevant to use any such examples
I remember hearing about how in China the method of execution is by gunshot. I remember when I heard it I went "That's fucked up"
And yeah, it is horrifying. But thinking about it more it's a far quicker and less painful than executions in America (although I should clarify it's still not GOOD)
I read somewhere that firing squads were often used in the past as a way to mitigate the guilt felt by the executioners. In some versions of the execution protocol, only a few of them actually had live rounds. If there are a bunch of you all firing, you can't truly know who actually killed the person, giving you plausible deniability. It's very Caeser / et tu Brute?
@@OldSchoolLPsGamesThe same idea was implemented with lethal injection. Multiple people get a switch, and none of them know if it’s their switch that actually killed someone.
@@OldSchoolLPsGamesThat doesn't add up. Blanks have next to no recoil when compared to live rounds. The people shooting could easily tell the difference.
"One may feel a certain indifference to the death penalty, one may refrain from pronouncing upon it, from saying yes or no, so long as one has not seen a guillotine with one’s own eyes: but if one encounters one of them, the shock is violent; one is forced to decide, and to take part for or against... The guillotine is the concretion of the law; it is called vindicate; it is not neutral, and it does not permit you to remain neutral."
-Victor Hugo, Les Miserables
A huge problem is that the state doesn't want a humane execution method. Sadism is ingrained into the system, and criminals lose their humanity in the eyes of the state.
tbh society doesn't want the convict to be executed to have an easy time of it, and I fully agree.
Society demands repercussions for crimes, the worse the crime the more serious the repercussions.
If you slowly strangle or poison your victim, why should you not be convicted to a means of execution that does the deed in a split second?
@@jwentingbecause that doesn’t help anyone at all? there’s no point in doing it?
Yea slavery is literally legal for prisoners in America.
@@stevenle9960 smart. Prisioners can be expensive, specially considering how freaking many of them there are in the US. Might as well get a return out of that
@@jwenting Because justice isn't served through revenge. No one benefits from an execution. No one has ever been brought back from the dead because they tortured their killers. Justice should seek to reduce suffering; not add to it.
it's interesting to see comments saying they're glad you're branching out. They're wrong. the first video I ever watched of yours was the video talking about vigilante justice, the punisher, and police brutality. You've consistently had big ideas, not just about video games but about the meaning of art in the wider world. You've constantly expanded my world and taught me how to look at art, video games, and the system I live inside.
thank you for being a teacher, professor, and mentor to me and so many other people.
I was worried in the first half
Veganism Video when? If he likes talking about this sort of thing, whew, I have quite the news for him...
Mmhm. When I saw this my first thought was his older videos Rationalizing Brutality and Designed For Violence, which are both in a similar vein to this one. This feels like a very natural evolution of concepts he's been mulling over for a very, very long time. I mean, hey-- at the end he even mentions the old essay he wrote on this!
Well written comment and I agree. People should at least read some of the rest of his video titles before saying "can't believe you aren't talking about video games!!!"
W youtuber/teacher/philosopher ......
I dont understand why youtube restricts this kind of stuff. the title clearly describes what the video is gonna be about, its interesting, and educational, and if people are not comfortable with it; they can just not click on it.
none the less, amazing video
As someone who was previously in favor of capital punishment, one "pro" argument I remember being brought forward was that the death penalty would cost less than a life sentence in prison, since that would mean theoretically 50+ years in jail and tax dollars.
However, due to the fact that trials where the death penalty is considered typically take longer, spending time in prison awaiting death row (typically at least 10 years), and the cost of the drugs used for the execution, it actually costs more than life-in-prison sentencing.
There's something poetically ironic about all this in the USA, where healthcare is a privilege. It's expensive to keep someone alive, but it's also expensive to use 'medical' means to kill someone.
I‘m going to be honest: this is horrifying.
As a medical professional, I‘ve seen treatment of people I‘d consider inhumane. I‘ve seen modern medicine go to far and and prolong the suffering of people. I‘ve witnessed human beings spoken about as commodities in a system.
But through all of this, the goal was always to assure life and quality of living to our patients. I can imagine watching someone die. I support a humane way to go for people who want to end their own suffering. But I can’t imagine killing a person, a mind and soul, against their will. Giving a lethal injection to a resisting victim would kill some part of me as well.
Thank you Jacob for discussing this chilling topic with your usual level of research and respect. Looking forward to all the light and heavy videos from you in the future.
Lethal injection also has a unique level of psychological torture most other methods didn’t have, 25% of people have moderate to extreme fears of needles. I’m only slightly afraid of needles, but the idea of being poked and prodded in the search of a vain for hours terrifies me in a way the other US methods of execution don’t.
ikr the mention of the word "vein" makes my joints weak, even when talking about ores in Minecraft. recently I asked my doctor to explain to me getting a shot, and she explained it in the least scary way possible but I fainted just from listening to her. not exaggerating, I really didn't think my phobia had gotten that bad 😞 I've gotten shots before
I read the fear of needles is actually one of the very few phobias ppl really die from suffering because of the most extreme stress to the system - absolutely no joke
@@SaraMKay omg... thanks for sharing, I looked into it and I believe I'm currently suffering from the kind you're talking about, I had no idea it was so dangerous no wonder the doctor hooked me up to measure my heart electricity or whatever when I woke up
@@kai_fatallysapphic omg, I'm so sorry this happened to you, I just touched the surface of this subject but it totally frightened me and it must be more common than thought, ppl refusing medical help out of this fear and really having physical reactions only by thinking of procedures that involve this matter - but because it is so common and dangerous there sure is help Idk like psychological training and things like that. Please look for help and stay safe and don't let the condition worsen, I wish you all the best and that you overcome it and be fine 🙏
worst thing someday something small may save your life and you just can't get yourself to let medicine help you, you know I'm a diabetes consultant and must be always aware ppl refusing treatment out of fear but maybe they say otherwise, but regardless sooner or later they will die from the condition and this is so tragic
I think the iron maiden could have made a very effective torture device. If the spikes were shorter and left just enough room for a person to stand upright, it would be drawn out discomfort until the victim didn't have enough energy to keep themselves up, at which point they'd be impaled.
Why
The last segment of this video nearly brought me to tears, as a black individual. Many of what was shown before is spoken of as experience within the black community. I applaude your thoroughness, but man this really is painful to listen too.
I don't know if it's common knowledge or not, but there are a significant amount of us who have natural resistance to anaesthesia. A few months ago, I had to have a spinal tap and it ended up being a disaster because the anaesthesia just did not work so I felt everything as it happened. There were two repeat performances of that before they tried gas and air. I've never felt more physical pain than when that needle was in my spine; I genuinely didn't understand why you'd scream in pain until that day. I cannot imagine going through that while paralysed and unable to do anything, and I have FND which causes me temporary paralysis on a daily basis.
It's so terrifying to imagine that, and anyone advocating for it is just an awful fucking person.
A few months ago i went through minor surgery and something similar happened. I was aware during the whole process (because it was just a surface level cyst) but I was supposed to not feel any pain. I did feel pain tho, i could feel the surgeon cutting my skin and It was like being stinged by bugs. I told the anesthesiologist and he was like "ah you must be slightly resistant to anesthesia but going you more would be very impractical" and i was like "no its alright i can bear It". Which isnt nearly as horrifying as what happened to you but its evidence that anesthesia doesnt always work as expected
Same thing happened to me while getting my wisdom teeth extracted, I just Woke Up mid way through the process and started moving only to hear the doctors talking about how they couldn’t put me back under because they were so far into the process already
Red head here. I got 4 shots of Novocain in the base of my right thumb when I slammed it in my car door and needed to drain the blood out from under my nail. It numbed the skin and made the punctures into the nail hurt only a little, but when they squeezed my thumb to force the blood out to relieve the pressure, holy *fuck* did I start hearing a high pitch and seeing white. I was able to keep my right arm still, but the rest of my body was contorting like mad. On the last push that was easily an 8/10 on the pain scale. I thought for sure I was going to pass out as my vision started to close in from the sides.
@@FurryWrecker911 yeah they gave me novocaine too and when it didn't work, the anaesthesiologist was like "I legally can't give you more". Kudos to you for managing to keep your arm still; I had no chance of keeping my body still, my brother had to physically hold me down.
At one point, I said "ow, fucking ow" which is now quoted at me so often, I think it'll be on my headstone lmao.
I underwent a procedure once, a catheter ablation, where they stuck a catheter into my femoral artery up to my heart to try to fix a problem. I did get knocked out by the anesthesia but woke up in the middle of the procedure. It was the worst pain I've ever felt, and I started moaning. They noticed and did manage to get me back under, though. They actually couldn't complete the procedure because it turned out to be too risky and might have caused me to need a pacemaker. Luckily the problem I had can be managed with medication. (Supraventricular Tachycardia, for the curious)
I'm surprised Jacob didn't talk about the youngest person to be killed via an electric chair. His name was George Stinnely Jr. and he was 14 when he was unfairly tried and executed for the murder of two girls in 1944.
Yes, i was expecting that too
I've seen death penalty advocates say such mistakes are acceptable--even saying "oh well, nobody is innocent."
I had a feeling it's because he was black, then I typed his name into google. Poor kid :(
@@RideAcrossTheRiver Well... I'll break RUclips TOS if I say the most appropriate response to that.
@pancakedroid9992
Yes it was a racially motivated sentence, happened to often, even whit native American from the Indian tribes, "your not white, your guilty and sentenced to death"....
It's not often that watch a video essay this long and feel as though its length was perfectly justified.
If you ever see this, thank you for creating it.
I first learned the horrific details of the lethal injection process (and other forms of capital punishment) from the chapter "doctors of the death chamber" in Atul Gawande's book "Better." It includes several interviews from physicians who chose to oversee the lethal injection process despite it being a violation of both the hippocratic oath and their personal morals.
You genuinely changed my mind, I have been in favor of the death penalty for pretty much my entire life. In recent years seeing cops and the government act in such immoral ways probably helped this change, but your video is essentially the brick that bashed the camels face in.
Normally I praise your freedom of thought, but it's been completely overshadowed by "The brick that bashed the camel's face in"
…is that an expression? lol
i still say, just go with bullet. 5.56 ot 7.62 to the heart is quick, cheap, and less inhumane than electric or chemical.
it's also keep vagueness of who is the real executioner since the shooting squad doesn't even know whose rifle is loaded with live round, whose just blank.
please attempt to explain how the death penalty is overall a bad thing.
@Commentium oooohhh I can tell this thread is gonna be good!
When I was a senior in high school, I had to pick a political topic that I had no opinion about, research it, and determine the constitutionality of it. I picked capital punishment, and I was truly appalled by just HOW immoral it was: how often it was botched, the racial bias, how many people were actually innocent, and how much of the evidence points to it being unconstitutional. Ever since, I have been continuously shocked to see how little most people care about it, and how many people still support it.
as a current senior in high school with the access to technology we have these days, it's really hard to think of a political topic I don't already have an opinion on. the pure amount of exposure I've had to opinions has bled topics into my brain left and right. it also feels like it's wrong or societally unacceptable to be able to say I don't know or I'd like to do some research before forming my opinion on that topic, you're expected to jump straight in with your opinion based on whatever slight knowledge you already have, even if it's wrong.
Death penalty is not humane. However, The racial part seems very forced, and hurt his credibility. Everyone on death row has been convicted of committing unspeakable acts. No evidence of racism, just a reflection of the crime disparities.
@@bunnyman1474So I don't live in the US, but isn't there a structural Problem with racism?
@@bunnyman1474 a society like the US that loves to create problems based on race would most definitely make life harder for some people, and cause them to live in poverty and do criminal things to survive
@@laerramarie2620 Definitely is lol. This guy is talking out of his ass because he wants to ignore systemic issues.
My wife's boyfriend and her son love your channel !
Ive never understood how anyone could think the electric chair was in any way humane. I picked up a downed power line as a kid, i dont know how i survived, but i can tell you for sure that is was very, VERY painful!
The closest I can get is the assumption you'd be using _insane_ quantities of electricity, at such high voltages as to outright vaporize the condemned, so that the person would be unquestionably dead before their brain could process any pain signals.
Given that this was in the early days of electrification, when you _did_ see a few highly publicized instances of someone getting instantaneously reduced to little more than a sooty smear, I could see someone buying into the idea of the electric chair by assuming that it was a deliberate usage of the phenomenon behind those infamous accidents.
20:54 one of the worst, most traumatic and otherworldly moments in my life was being gassed. I was actually receiving a surgery (tonsillectomy) in the early 90s, when pungent agents were still being used and could make people cough. The anesthesiologist met with me and had me cover it in chapstick flavors and held it over my face and told me "it may smell a little funny when we're back there, but you won't remember it". And he told me to "blow out birthday candles" to go under as fast as possible.Which is kinda disturbing in a metaphorical way. Then they took me back...
He placed the mask over my face and boy I fucking panicked. I was "brave" the entire time but at this point I wanted to fucking tear the mask off and run out of there, and I tried to at first. It was like sticking my head in a huge diesel tank. The chapstick did NOTHING. My heart raced. I couldn't fucking breathe and I was like inhaling pure alcohol or paint thinner. I tried to blow out a "birthday candle" but when I did I coughed and cried and everything tasted much worse after that, like he cranked the dial up, and then I felt actual suffocation and passed out. My body never panicked like that before.
Now, whenever I've needed general, I always get the injection. Always. I always fear for the .001% chance that I could die under the knife and have my last memories be the suffocating feeling of the mask or the smell of it. I literally cannot imagine that being someone's final memory, with the guards in your ear telling you how "peaceful" its going to be until the reality sets in. I can't fucking imagine.
Huh, I was pot under general anesthesia using a mask when I had a tonsillectomy with a bunch of abscesses they had to remove further down my throat. I don't remember the gas being so suffocating. It was like breathing air that was too warm and smelled like strong medicine. I was told to breathe in, then breathe out on command by the anesthesiologist, and I only remember taking two breaths and panicking that I don't feel anything, then it all went black and I woke up in the recovery room, literally shaking despite the warm air being blown inside my blankets and the warm oxygen mask which felt suffocating, and I was trying to take it off, because I felt like I was suffocating, like there wasn't enough oxygen entering my lungs, and due to my disorientation, I was certain that it was the warm "air" being pumped through the mask that was suffocating me. The nurse kept replacing my mask back onto my face each time I through it off me, I barely rasped to her that the mask is suffocating me, the air was too warm, and the nurse told me this is oxygen, and without I would have more trouble breathing without it. I still managed to tear it off of me, and obviously it was worse as I started gasping, the nurse saw it and placed my mask back on my face.
On the other hand, when I had my appendectomy, which was complicated and lasted 45 minutes, i hand injectable anesthesia the recovery was quick, the pain level was so low that a couple of hours later I was standing up with the help of my BF, and walking to the bathroom without needing to take a single dose of pain meds. ִ
So maybe the type of inhalable anesthesia or the way it's introduced into the body is what makes the difference, or maybe it was just a coincidence, lol.
@@prettyhatemachine8887 that's interesting. My theory from the original comment and yours is that the inhalation of the anesthesia is what caused the initial fear/feeling of suffocation. So when you came to you were still in the throws of fighting the suffocation from the anesthesia and thus assumed the oxygen was the culprit. Even if you couldn't remember the feeling of suffocation from the anesthesia, your body clearly did. Like the guy who couldn't recall waking on the operating table, but still had severe PTSD after his surgery for no explainable reason until they discovered the notes from the surgery discussing the staff intentionally dosing him with a drug so he wouldn't remember it. Didn't work as planned since his nervous system clearly remembered something even if he couldn't consciously describe it.
What's more concerning is how common of a reaction stripping off an oxygen mask is after surgery. This would imply the feeling of suffocation is far more common than people are able to remember or are willing to admit. Obviously part of it is people just hating masks, but it's still an unsettling possibility to consider.
Had an MRI with contrast and that is the closest I ever want to come to lethal injection. Feeling the contrast pump through your body is terrifying on its own. I can't imagine feeling a foreign compound enter your bloodstream and knowing it was going to kill you along with the pain the substance could cause.
The dichotomy of being told you did well even though it felt like pure torture just added to the surreal terror. Like is no one else going to acknowledge how fucking awful that experience was? I imagine you struggled with the same issue of other people not sharing your experience even though they must have even if they can't remember it or else the anesthesiologist wouldn't have instructed you the way they had, because they know what people go through when putting them under. The patient might not remember, but the staff do.
Just like how putting women under for childbirth was supposedly peaceful and efficient when it turns out they would thrash and fight and scream the entire time while completely out of it so staff began strapping patients down. Which is almost unanimously seen as barbaric to physically restrain a birthing woman, but like Geller had explained. It was about the appearance of a peaceful process even if it actually wasn't at all. Turns out anesthetizing humans is complicated, and it doesn't always go well.
I'm sorry you experienced that, and thank you for sharing.
I feel the same way, I have had a lot of leg surgeries over my life and my first genuinely felt like I was going to die. I know that I wasn't going to deep down, but I was struggling to get of that table with all my strength (I was very young at the time). I heard all this talk about how it would just be like a "nap", but all I could think about as I was going under was if I was going to die, and how the doctors would break the news to my family if I did. The worst part about the whole experience was the doctors holding me down, forcing the mask on me as I raced down the hallway. You know it's bad when you're essentially gaslighting a 5 year old into thinking that it's no big deal and then making him think he's facing his own mortality. Side note, they said it would smell like smarties, it smelled like fruit flavored bleach.
@@EliTriesToBeFunny I think it's safe to say they know the gas is extremely unpleasant and they've taken steps to improve it... But clearly it doesn't outweigh the suck factor.
Damn, poor kids. At least an adult has a better chance of rationalizing their reaction and the situation. Hell, it might be better to explain to the kid that the gas might be really unpleasant but just breathe and it'll be over faster so you can feel better later.
So at least when the sugar coated bullshit turns into a nightmare they don't assume something is wrong and panic as badly.
"Many have questioned if we need a "humane" method of execution at all."
Me, a clueless Australian: Ah, so now we're going into the ethics of using the death penalty at all.
"There is certainly a malice towards prisoners here"
Oh.
There are no humane method of execution
Cause executions aren't humane in it self
@@bluebutterfly6394 couldn't agree more
@@bluebutterfly6394 relatively humane
@@bluebutterfly6394 but do you support it for people who have raped / killed a child ?
Just curious, I won’t yell at you if you don’t
I do, but I’m also a big believer in just letting them survive in a hostile prison where the prisoners get to carry out some justice themselves.
I hope the parkland shooter is getting raped daily, he doesn’t need to die…
@@Ott3r5losh tf no of with their heads
Had to come back when I heard how botched that gassing was
I had sort of assumed iron maidens were essentially the set dressing of places actually used for torture- created to cause fear rather than to actually functionally cause a slow death.
I live in Iran.
Here, every month, new people are hanged for crimes that are... made up. One crime many of the people who were arrested during recent protests were executed for is "waging war against God." Which God? Who is "God" in this scenario?
Many of the people executed were actually Sunni Muslims. The highest number of murders were in Sunni provinces. They opened fire on a mosque for Sunni Muslims in Zahedan, while there were still people praying inside. Were those people waging war? War against "God"?
The "God" protesters waged war against is just the government, "Islamic Republic of Iran" which is not Islamic, is not a republic, and is committing crimes against people of Iran.
Here, execution is hands of government is seen as what it really is: what you'll get if you dare open your mouth with the intent of speaking against the power.
Nah, after suffering in a sunni majority country, its pretty clear that they kinda asked for it. Thank you for the good news
@@UnironicallyToast What?
@@UnironicallyToast i mean i can't invalidate your experience but calling it "good news" is insensitive
@@UnironicallyToast Pretend I have your IP address. I'm coming for you now.
@@UnironicallyToast That's messed up, dude. And this is coming from somebody who absolutely despises the Islamic Republic of Iran.
I live in Texas, so needless to say, I think about this a lot. We almost certainly executed an innocent man, Cameron Todd Willingham, in 2004. I didn't like the death penalty before, but I had that aforementioned faith that our system was good. Nearing 50 and watching my children try to navigate life in this country, I have no real faith that any system in our country works.
Thank you so much for your essay. I really appreciate it. I hope it becomes another means to stir the consciences of our fellow citizens.
The system works as it is designed to
@@rafaelsantana4905and it is pure shit
@@rafaelsantana4905
Designed to create suffering
As far as I'm concerned this is by far the best video you've ever made and that's saying something given the quality of your continued and past output.
I just have to say this, I watched the whole video and its really well put together. The fact that it is all taken in one take is just astounding and the level of research you did is admirable. Great job, gained a sub!
It's almost comical that they with all their attempts never considered executions by "silent killers", for example by the means of carbon monoxide.
I almost died of it once due to improperly maintained chimney in our apartment block and what stood out was that it was completely painless and absolutely unexpected experience (one moment I was in a bathtub and in a blink of an eye I was lying in hospital hooked up on life support with absolutely no memory of what happened)
The downside to CO as an execution method is that a botched execution could result in severe brain hypoxia that's enough to cause brain damage and leave a person in a vegetative state, but not bad enough to kill outright.
Still, it seems far more humane than all the methods presented here
Give them a pitch. Carbon monoxide could be the new painless less barbaric method to capital punishment that rapidly and peacfully carry trough involuntary death. Never heard that one before....😅
Just bring back the guillotine, 100% effective, works every time.
@@Luke-tt3dtjust put them in even more carbon monoxide then
@@Luke-tt3dt Up until they kill someone who turned out to be innocent under the belief that they were guilty, the death penalty is a truly barbaric means of punishment and as for me I'd rather let a hundred rapists live (Even if one of them raped me) than risk ONE wrongly convicted individual being condemned to die.
I really think the issue is people assume that death is a just punishment and then attempt to sanitize it so that they don’t have to come to terms with the horror an act entails and think about whether anyone deserve the suffering that can come in one’s final moments (I.e., they start with the conclusion that death is a worthy punishment and work backwards)
It's a backward and reaching philosophy you use against the death penalty if you have to start by ignoring this is generally reserved for someone who inhumanely murdered a person.
@@majorpwner241 Considering the inability of this system to find a humane method of execution when the effects and mechanics of inert gas asphyxiation have been understood for decades, I do not understand why any justice system could be trusted to determine that they're executing the right person beyond all doubt in the first place.
The death punishment is most with little wealth dying in nursing homes.
@@majorpwner241 So the vengeful impulse when thinking about the crime commited justifies the death penalty? Back to talion then? Anyway, that's not even the point. Even if we conclude the death penalty is justified, trying to sanitize it for one's own conscience, but with blatant disregard for the condemned, is plain cowardice.
4 riflemen, 20 rounds each, 7.62mm hollow-point, all emptied right into the chest at full-auto. That's how you'd do it, if you were absolutely certain that what you're doing is just.
@@ausnahmenwerfer5570 Sure why not. Execution by gunfire is also a viable way.
I came here because I was drawn in by my own autistic interest in execution and torture methods. In no way did I expect such a profound analysis of society and the justice system. I was equally blindsided by the transition into talking about racial bias and cop violence. The topics flowed together so smoothly and naturally, and rightfully so, as they are interconnected. But this interconnection has never been so… easily presented to me before. Even though this wasn’t the gruesome video I came for, you held my attention with genuinely interesting analysis and insight. I never thought about the connection between capital punishment and being shot to death by police, even though it seems like such a simple conclusion now.
If we were looking for a quick method of death, we would have stopped at the era of firing squads. It really is all about public image, presenting a squeaky clean outer shell to hide the rot and muck within. Deep down, America does not care about its prisoners at all. If you step out of line once, you are nothing to them. That’s why they take away prisoners’ right to vote as well. The only ones who can truly understand how horrible this justice system is are the ones who have been put through it. If we let them vote, things would change. Can’t have that happen.
Anyways AWESOME video dude! I’m gonna watch some of your other stuff now! 👍
its sad :(
Signed up for nebula using your link. Your work is beautiful, often devastating, and feels so important. I look forward to every new video.
*The phrase "a humane way of killing" always cracks me up.*
A delicate way of ripping your own spine out 😂
how ironic
I'll take a shot to the back of the head over being flayed.
@@boltaurelius376 agreed, just put me down. If I deserve the death penalty, I shouldn’t deserve anything fancy. I should be shot and then cleaned up. I’ve done something terrible, I have showed that I have no sympathy. just get rid of me, and do it quick.
oh yeah, but maybe something that actually kills me in one hit
The bait-and-switch you pulled at the end where you smashed my optimism that executions are going down with the horror that police killings are going up was masterful. It really drove home how state-sponsored death has only grown more, not less, barbaric over time.
Bring back the Guillotine!
@@manolgeorgiev9664 Well, at least guillotine was also used on the people who were in power, be it your political opponent, or even the head of the state, in some rare case.
@@shytendeakatamanoir9740 and that's a good thing?
@@kentknightofcaelin4537 yes
@@kentknightofcaelin4537 On one hand, killing is bad.
but on the other equal opportunity for all is good.
So I'd say the answer to that question isn't a clear cut.
Great video, really topical given the new gas method created. Sorry you have to deal with trolls and racists with the newer comments, but I guess that’s par for the course as a larger creator.
Dude was completely disingenuous at the end there