The Science-Based Scam?!?
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- Опубликовано: 17 сен 2021
- Are these bro scientists just trying to trick us?
Bromley's Original Video:
• The "Science-Based" Scam
Nippard on Fouad Abiad's podcast:
• TRAINING, CARDIO & NUT...
Seedman Cringe Vid:
• NO GYM, No Equipment, ...
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Mate really enjoyed this video. Good advice, especially for the younger kids.
@@johndonson1603 Glad ya liked it!
Geoff, can you link the pubmed study on your book? Thanks. 😂👍
@@rhondarousey5227 I have not. Often RUclips deletes or filters comments (I've even had my own deleted).
I bought the book. Really nice selection and evaluation of different exercises (for my exercise Pokedex).
I find it more practical in application than the Encyclopedia of Body Building.
Overall, very nice work. I'm glad I have the paper copy for quick reference.
Jeff Nippard's physique is "barely to the right of a bell curve"? Wait wut.
Accused of steroids and of having a normie physique. It's tough out there.
Yeah I don't think this guy knows anything about Jeff, literally none of his criticisms applied to Jeff. Jeff is also probably as elite as a natty can get too
I wanna be on that bell curve 🥺
@@Ach1lles55 I like Jeff. Best knowledge on the rotator cuff out there. Geoffrey knows much more about the squat, deadlift, and overhead press, however. I go to Jeff for prehab exercise selection. But the technique from Geoffrey does develop overall strength very quickly. (And Geoffrey's find of the Lu Lu lateral raise for me is a better mobility exercise than anything except the face pull).
@@ryanschultz9037 wrong jeff my guy
"Jeff looks like a runner who does a couple of curls from time to time"
Body dysmorphia is strong with this guy
He looks fine, the trouble is that he's using himself as an example of having a "massive" chest.
Kinda looks like Jason Blaha except he’s way more respectable lol
@@stronk9760 what?
Jeff Nippard is like a broken clock, will be right twice a day at best
I have a degree in biology and I spent four years learning how to read scientific literature. The most important thing we learned is to find out who paid for the study.
100%. It explains a lot in some circumstances.
"New compound increases muscle growth 5523%? Oh...the company that funded it...is selling it. Hmmm"
Papers in biology must be very easy to read then.
@@MrCmon113 no, it's that finding out who funded it is actually very difficult, because it's so obfuscated
@@rinkuhero Who cares? It costs 10 million dollars to mail out a survey that asks what you ate. Tell me how every study isn't a complete fraud.
Who paid for it is relatively irrelevant. Good Studies have standards and if every important factor is taken into account while the study is transparent it doesn't matter. The problem is that many studies are done with the goal in mind to frame something by using unreliable methods the way you want
“If you interview the best powerlifters of all time, you’re going to see a lot of trens”
-GVS
Legend says Joel Seedman is still trying to fly till this day
Lmaooo
I still don't understand why did Jeff Nippard get into this mess he is literally the best middle man between science and practical training.
Hes a fake natty whos only claim to fame is his good bench press
@@hipdrive How do you know he's a fake natty?
@@Hedgeflexlfz are you serious?
@@TheUcHiHaMaD what?
@@hipdrive Didn’t he win bodybuilding contests as well. I doubt he’s a fake natty anyway, no red flags in his physique. Little dudes look bigger than they are because they fill out more
10/10 always let a study on 15 well trained individuals with an average squat of 235lbs dictate your entire training plan.
Lol this. Stronger by science does a good job of pointing out things that make studies almost irrelevant
🤣🤣
Man, Greg is probably my favorite 'science based' guy for that reason. He doesn't shill for the institution that churns out these studies; actually a shred of experience and skepticism driving his analysis.
@@AlexanderBromley will you be making a response video or anything?
@@Jmack7861 No, it would just be a loop of things already said, just in bold and with all caps. Geoffrey was measured here and didn't say anything I really disagreed with, it really comes down to people liking Nippard and me not communicating well enough why I put him in a category with the others.
The success of Jeremy Ethiers channel is one of lifes great mysteries.
It's relatively high level production/ entertainment value. He edits his videos in pretty good ways I guess that's why.
Tbh whole a bunch of his advise has been trash way more than 50% matches with the kinda advice this guy gives
Simple, he plays the YT algo game
Simply the fact that he’s boring to watch is what baffles me
He masks the 10-20% of bad advice that he gives with the other 80-90% of good advice.
All the researchers including Brad Schoenfeld always says: the study is just a guideline and not to take it as set in stone. Theory and practicality will often vary and that is why a seasoned coach might know a lot of things what science is just trying to catch up to and explain. That is how everything starts, with practice.
Brad and his crew are fixated in their scientism of black and white. If you follow scientific literature and follow it like black and white like these clowns then you are way way behind 10 years or more at least. Thats how fixated people with doctorate degree.
The reason science is so difficult in health studies is the enormous amount of variables and the long time it takes to get the data on the long term effects.
Exactly. Sometimes people get results DESPITE what they do, not BECAUSE OF what they do.
I personally rate Sean Nalewanyj, good content.
Sean Nalewannabe. Been on youtube for years just copying the people we actually like to watch. I'll pass thanks.
@@jaredjordan7935
Oh Jared so smug , how old are the people you like to watch, 30 / 40 or maybe older, where do you think they got their info from, do you think anything is new, I've been training since 1980, nothing is new , I mean nothing..
So you give him a miss, and stick to the content you like.
👍
@PHANTOM-MC
Not too much BS, straight forward, I don't agree with everything he says, but that's normal, for someone starting training or wanting no BS basics, he's great.
@@johndonson1603 Are you his dad? Quite honestly, the kid's a youtube loser. He cries about how he's not as popular as the "Jeffs" (Nippard and Cavalier) and then tries to copy their videos. Just saying there are way better channels to watch than his. Defending him as hard as you did makes me think this is his sock account.
@@jaredjordan7935
Watch Nippard and Cavaliere then, it makes no odds to me.
One of the best on youtube, hands down, John Meadows. Self experimentation and study was one of the best tools in his arsenal. He also didn’t spend countless videos trying to shoot holes in other’s videos. He actually explained bodybuilding.
Yes! His body and his video workouts with a variety of clients are the proof.
Omg the dexter clip is amazing. "I still outlift your ass" The editing is getting better by the day
Maybe Joel meant to say he is science fiction based🤔🤓
While I believe in ACTUAL science based fitness info, it’s unfortunate so many people abuse that term to promote their own made up nonsense. I think Jeff Nippard is the best source for actual science based info on RUclips with how he combines the studies with practical real-world applications, & very thorough explanations. Interesting video Geof!
I think Mike Israetel/RP is on the same level as Nippard in terms of a mix of science and practicality, leaning more towards the advanced side than for the casual "just want to train a bit" lifter.
Doug Brignole
@@edanmaor Mike is not science based in executing exercises. Doug Brignole is. Metabolism, science and application Layne MacDonald.
@@rockon8174 lets not hurry and jump into conclusions. He does talk about the 30 degree angle on squats and how that only tansfers 30% load into quads but that is not what is being shown in actual tests and has no study to back it up. ITS A THEORY, not a conclusion. Do some research for yourself show me some studies where sissy squats outperformed regualr squats and i will agree.Like 10:50 geoff is propably talking about Brignole. @Edan Maor Israetel though does seem to contradict science when his fitness model is at stake. Schoenfeld was the one to suggest muscle damage, mechanical tension, metabolite accummulation as the 3 mechanisms for hypertrophy however he has since taken the stance that damage and metabolites have a correlation relationship with hypertrophy not causation. Israetel still uses the same model as one mesocycle of the programs he sells are metabolite based.
@@georgesarreas5509 the rectus femoris shuts off completely when squatting, dear. EMG studies show this. Squats are not a quad dominant exercise. Read the book. References provided there. You make a fool of yourself to call actual evidence "a theory." 😑
Jeff Cavalier's science: Trust me guys.
One of my favorite quotes of his is the "so that's how that fixes that" 😅
Great video man! I got the most flack for lumping Jeff in with the others, but I gotta stand by it. The main point of my video wasn't to out full blown scammers, but to highlight the uselessness of academic research in informing training decisions, especially for the caliber of lifter scouring RUclips for the inside scoop. As good as Nippard might be in many areas (I don't discount his chops), he still centers his content around picking apart academic study and I find that outright harmful. Theres no scenario where basic LPs, periodized templates or even Arnie's BB Encyclopedia are going to be worse starting points than anything hinted at (because that's the best they can do) in the conclusion of a university study. But there is PLENTY of confusion, hesitation and bad decision making to be had if you start there instead.
I thought your video was good overall, and brought up some great points addressing the deficiencies of science overall. Certainly, relying only or even overly on science is extremely foolhardy, but Nippard definitely doesn't do that. Just about any time he mentions anything in the scientific realm it's with the disclaimer that it's not everything and only part of the answer, as well as everyone having to find their own answer anyway.
That recent podcast with Fouad Abiad I highly suggest checking out. Even if you might not find it to be all that useful personally, I think it'll make his stance on science versus practicality clear.
Those are valid reasons to take issue with Nippard's approach, but I don't think they are valid reasons to lump him in with an obvious charlatan. (Would you like it if someone who was critical of something you said did the same thing to you?)
@@GVS I'll definitely take a look. What you just said about him is what makes it so egregious. I don't see it as him being measured and grounded, I see it as him acknowledging the lack of utility academia has to offer and proceeding to base his content around it anyways. What possible benefit is there to parsing through dirt studies that are 40 years behind conventional training wisdom if the end conclusion is, "you still have to find your own way"?. Literally no other scientific discipline finishes their lectures that way and would be disqualified from being used to establish authority if they did. The whole point of scientific inquiry is to give you concrete rules in the first place.
People like Jeff and he has some good content, I get it. But that doesn't invalidate how backwards, confusing and distracting this method of discovery is to an audience that desperately needs fewer barriers to entry.
@@AlexanderBromley Bingo. The guy built his huge following by using the terms science based, science explained, and scientific way in nearly all of his titles. Produced an entire army of "science says" guys. Rarely (if ever) spoke about the limitations and downright errors of the research (so many). Early on he aligned himself with the "right" scientific crowd and ignored the best of the best who from the get go were pointing out methodology errors, misinterpreted data, and the total lack of ecological validity in most of the research he and his crowd cited. So for him to now fall back on N=1 seems disingenuous.
Fouad Abiads recent podcast with Jeff Nippard was golden and highlights perfectly what cooperation between science based community and top professionals can be at it's best. They both actually learn from each other, as it should be 💪🤝 I highly recommend watching it if you havent already.
Bromley and you are both amazing. Would be super cool to have a live podcast with you two :)
I have been consuming your content well over half a year and I have to say, the moments where you include movies scenes are pure genius.
Great video, I watched Bromley's video when it came out and I was very curious as to what you'd think about it. Extra bonus points for the Spinal Tap edit.
Watching your channel is like watching progressive overload. You're humour and editing just keeps getting better.
I think the biggest issue with science based training is that it’s often misinterpreted and passed off as gospel. Science deals in averages. Especially exercise science. The variation between bodies is too great for them to be super useful on an individual basis. Combined with the number of variables for muscle/strength growth and you have a recipe for slightly better than a guess. There’s just no way you can find 2 individuals who have the same genetics, stress, sleep patterns, diet and training history. Much less enough for a study.
That being said, starting with these science based ideas and then being willing to change your program or diet to accommodate the results you got is an awesome way to move forward with your training.
I was happy to see the clip from Jeff and fouads podcast episode. I think the whole episode did a really good job at discussing the combination of science based and experience based training.
One of the best 2 hours I've ever seen on that topic, for sure.
And this is why I like this channel, fairly unbiased views and info. Also I can't wait for your posture video
"Pubmed link? ... No you can F off" LMAO Instant sub bro! Havent laughed and learned so much in ages. THANK YOU
I've always taken the combined approach such as Jeff Nippard does. Yes I achieved my Kinesiology Degree in 2012, but many years up until that point and many years after, I've always combined academic knowledge with practical application and experience. There's many things I do in training which I know work well for me, but I can't necessarily give you a scientific reason as to why.
Thanks Geoffrey got your book so much useful info on lifting & body building !love this channel with no BS .great video 👍🏽
Glad you enjoyed it!
Everything between 0:40 and 1:00 is editing gold. This is the best editing I have ever seen.
Wait so if im driving in a really crappy and bumpy truck that vibrates I'm getting insane glute activation? Wow!
I dont know about science or theory. But i runned two of nippards programs on a row and i absolutely blew up doing it. Best gains i ever had.
Love your stuff man. You are really bringing a lot of valuable, fun content out. Thanks brother
I was actually loading an episode of Sunny in Philadelphia in the background while watching this and that intro made me think my episode started playing wtf.
The sunny in Philadelphia cut was god tier
Great video, thanks! But I realize I need to find a psychologist, people, who left those manufacturer's stickers on their laptops, drive me crazy 😂
yeah that is very weird. it's like people who leave the tags on their clothes and wear them
I’d say heavy confusion in the science based community caused me to Program hop so much in my first year. Person A: do a 5x5 program and progressively overload (basic, effective). Person B: The perfect chest workout (fancy variations). Me as a beginner sees Person B with way more subs and way flashier Program = spinning my wheels.
I built great shoulders with upright rows and when someone tells me they are bad for my joints and are not efficient…my face falls😵
Great video. Most people who serially watch these videos don't actually try working out consistently. I went that route too. You lack motivation and discipline, have little to no results, and try through science based videos to find the golden key to unlocking the gains you are looking for. These guys making the videos at some point realise that most people will fall into that category, so they make these videos which go viral and then the ever-growing cycle begins, that of fitness gurus and undertrained individuals feeding each other's "needs".
I’ve been flickering the lights in front of the epileptic kid, now he’s “exercising” according to Dr. Seedman.
Man I’m such a nice guy
Great explanation! I take studies and anecdotes as a general direction then try shit.
Unfortunately, it takes a lot of time to try everything and know if you get results.
Didn’t expect an actual response video when I saw you in his comment section, glad it’s here though
Your meme game is getting stronger. You earn yourself a like 30 seconds into the video, well done sir ⭐️
12:33 I experienced this in my video about neck bridges. According to science or physiotherapists, neck bridges are dangerous. But, in wrestling, neck bridging is one of the primary exercises. Even though my channel is tiny, there were people linking a video from the world's greatest physical therapist about why neck bridges will KILL your neck.
Bromley's video is worth watching, as usual, but lumping together Jeremy Ethier, Jeff Nippard, Jeff Cavelier, and Joel Seedman is really unfair.
Specially when he bashes nippard and praises Cavaliere hahaha
Agree, Cavalier and Nippard are in the elite. Seedman and Ethier are straight jokes.
@@jaredjordan7935 personally I wouldn’t have athleanx on the elite category, actually not even un the good one 😅
@@AlejandrooVIII I mean, I don't agree with every single thing athlean says but c'mon bro there really isn't even a close second in terms of who is best on youtube. The guy literally knows more than all the other channels combined.
@@jaredjordan7935 really love that this exchange has been nice my man, without insulting and all that stuff
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Personally I feel Jeff Cavelier doesn’t properly program specially for strength, for hipertrophy he focuses on too many small variations to get views and not in the “common” movement patterns and exercises in which people will really progress, does a lot of nocebo and I can’t forget the fake weights
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I do believe that there are a lot of better sources for info here on RUclips, for hypertrophy, strength, power or even dieting
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I used to watch a lot of athleanx and I wish I would have found other channels sooner 😅
Death to science based training content, long live meme based training content
In addition to all the great points already made, there is a problem in perception with the word science. Unfortunately many people cannot see the vast difference in the sciences.
Some have created working models that can predict outcomes to a great level of certainty, such as physics and chemistry, and have produced the amazing jumps in technology we all see, such as airplanes, computers, and energy storage. Other sciences are currently purely observational and often do not have good enough models that can predict anything with any certainty. Fitness certainly barely qualifies as a mature science. Medical science in general is still largely based on observational studies without a real understanding of the underlying causes (we've only just started making progress lately).
So there is science, and then there is science. Not all science is equal.
Guys?! He called us guys?!?! We have been promoted from sentient beings to guys! I feel privileged.
I need the posture correction video from you . I was thinking that if something is a 'bad' posture , our body won't allow us to adapt to it in the first place . Also how are the" bad "postures , most comfortable to sit with ?
You bring up a lot of great points here (as did Bromley).Use science as a reference or starting point in combination with real life results from athletes and coaches AND mix in your own personal experience and soon you`ll be the main feature in fake natty vids all over social media cause your gains are unreal..:-9
Never expected to see Fran Drescher on a Geoffrey Verity video 😯
I’d like to see Jeff Nipard’s program for how he got to this level, rather than all the contradictory science mumbo jumbo. He’s strong as hell and has a great physique. Just break it down simply what did you do the last 10 years that got you here, rather than “I’m selling a full body every day program that I’ve never used before” 😑
If i had to choose only one person to get information from it would be Jeff Nippard for sure. I think he's a great example of combining science and experience. What it comes down to in training is lift compound movements on a regular basis with progressive overload. That's it.
"If you see something on television, it's probably bullsh1t." How true.
If vibrating plates worked, standing in the subway would be a full on workout 😂
Jeff Nippard might be the most obnoxious science based fitness influencer that keep popping up in my feed. He is a total sheep. He cites blatantly corrupted science
I generally watch Dr. Mike Isratel, Jeff Cavalier, and Jeff Nippard. With a little Lean Beef Patty and Autumn Ivy mixed in for good measure (neither girl is scoence based).
So far my weight loss and muscle gain are great.
I prefer to get multiple sources and work with my trainer to figure what works best for me.
I'd honestly stay away from Cavalier. He's all about the algo. He definitely gives out more good info than bad but the whole fake weights thing and the breathing out before a squat was the breaking point for me.
I'm embarrassed to say this, he had me doing endless waiter curls, leg lifts and worst of all, leg bicep curls 🙈🙈🙈🙈
I like Mike Israetel but he had me turn into what GVS called a form cyborg. After watching his video about it I thought I'd give it a go, up the weight even if my form isn't perfect and I'm glad for it. It made me realise I was form-ego lifting and too conservative. I surprised myself.
Knew this video would be made when I saw Bromley's video!
I trust Jeff's advice on training, he's never been pushy about his programs all these years I watched his channel. He does promote them every now and than.
Bro trusts Jeff.. Are you still on that delusional train a year later?
Which one
Ha ! I knew that you are gonna make a video about this :d Anyway, I think that Bromley is mostly right about everything but man, he is in for a threat, once he gets into the athlean x rabbit hole
No doubt. I don't think he'd be a fan of breathing out before squats or fake plates.
People conflate "studies" with science (almost exclusively now) even though "studies" are probably the lowest form of science. It's a problem even outside of the fitness industry of course.
That Dexter edit was hilarious hahahaha
I'm really worry because I started to follow fitnesses channels to fix myself and my injuries, but maybe I'm going to hurt myself even more... It would be great to talk more about people that we can trust for this kind of situations. One more thing: a lot of athletes injure themselves and some of us don't wan't to be the strongest or the biggest, we just wan't to get a better health, so that's why newbies don't always watch what the best people are doing in training.
do you think Ethier's push pull legs routine is atleast, ok at best? i've been doing it all year and im wondering if im being stupid. i do sometimes think that the overlap in exercises is excessive (for example: it has me doing dumbbell bench press, cable chest fly AND incline barbell bench press all on push day)
Jeremy Ether is a complete joke. The dude has not progressed his physique in half a decade. He literally looks like your average college kid who has been working out for 6 months.
not everyone has the goals of getting bigger. His physique is pretty good, perhaps your complaints are about the wasted potential, but that's another story.
I bet u don't look like him
Jeff Nippard looking sus in the thumbnail.
"if you see something on television, it's probably bullshit"🤣
might be your best video yet because this is important in my opinion. bromley is solid as fuck, found him a couple weeks ago
Imagine getting a certificate, a degree, crunching data, reviewing thousands of articles and so on, just to craft a PPL program that a guy on the bodybuilding forums 10 years ago could have written in 30 minutes.
What works to win a world championship might also lead to years of crippling pain, surgeries, and suffering later in life. I train to be healthy and happy, not interested in winning a gold medal. Or any medal. Mashed sure you know your goals and that your role models and coaches are aligned with them
I gotta admit…I have only watched 90 seconds of your video and I don’t think a fitness related video has ever made me laugh so fucking hard that I replicated my heavy deadlift face.
Dude you are fucking great and you seriously deserve to have a bigger following simply on the memes of Joel lmao
0:57😲 what is that guy doing🤣
Of course that Tracy lady is NASM certified lol
I read a paper on the Shake-Weight.
They showed it didn't really work.
Guess who still bought a Shake-Weight.
I thought seedman had an NFL player on IG running back and forth swinging weights while he did squats.
Oh god the Sunny clip was perfect.
I think with the whole you can't change other variables to keep it scientific, which is very true but because training has so many different variables that are very important it seems like an inherent flaw in these scientific studies. Overall like the video 👌
yoo the dexter one was awesome man haha
Jeff Nippard is legit. He's one of the best guys out there along with you who don't preach BS. He gives logical and practical suggestions and his explanation is always thorough and on point. And his physique is fantastic for a natty.
Vibrating plates may be good for lymphatic drainage? Just a thought.
The Spinal Tap clip 🤣🤣
ayy geoff I was just watching this video. I really enjoy alexander bromley's videos and saw this a few weeks ago. I disgree with some points but mainly my take away is that he's pointing out how people rely on science and not realizing that we are n=1 and not everything works with everyone and that people uses science as excuses to not work hard.
Yea I see that a lot, and definitely agree with that. Science _can_ be misused. But of course there are good science based coaches like Nippard so it's important not to lump everyone in together.
Just bought your book. I'm very excited.
Awesome, enjoy!
Thanks for this video. I saw the original A. Bromley video and saw it as mostly valuable insight. My only critique is the one you elaborated on in this video - lumping in Jeff Nippard with the others. I've watched plenty of Nippard videos and he is NOT dogmatic with research results and in fact many times he's pointed out conflicting results from separate meta-analyses (something you mention in this video).
I would still recommend the Bromley video because, if you can overlook the Nippard issue, he brings up many valid points that are worth considering.
Legend has it Geoff uses PEDs for the beard. When he is off gear he seems to be shaving to hide the sazule usage lol
That frame drop at timestamp 1:31 though!
The problem with science based lifting is that it all becomes way too complicated and unrealistic for the average person to follow and actually apply. It also really takes the fun out of lifting. Literally just eat in a realistic calorie surplus, have a training routine that you enjoy, and put in actual effort when you lift and you will see results. You don’t need to be tracking mesocycles and calculating the exact degree of you elbow during an eccentric contraction and all that other crap. Just fucking lift and have fun.
I am literally with the same weight, height , training experience and ffmi as this guy, although my insertions are admittedly inferior.
Jeff Nippard is probably the best source of information out there along with a very few like GVS and Sean Nal. His videos are backed by science but not manipulated by it. He just doesn't let BS get him.
noooooooo you have to trust the science, it can never be wrongggg nooo misinformation!
All these dudes in gear bro. I fell into the trap of listening to these clowns on RUclips for years. At least if imma listen to a dude on gear its gonna be an IFBB pro.
I come for the comedy, I tolerate the "fitness" content.
holy shit I saw some guy in my gym doing those weight-free lateral raises :o
Hey Geoff, you should check out Martin Berkhan's scathing critique of Brad Schoenfeld and the other science-based crowd. It was on his Patreon a few years back I think, but he really went to town on them. Valid points too. It's a shame he doesn't produce more content and articles but I guess he really got fed up with the industry.
He's been around for a while and I've always liked his stuff...easy to get burnt out in this industry. Brad has done a lot for the industry but a lot of what he puts out is sadly never ever questioned, particularly by his followers. It's getting a tad cultish which is exactly what science shouldn't be.
If Jeff Cavaliere looks like a "middle distance runner who do a couple sets of biceps curls", than Alexander Bromley is looking for a fat truck driver donut who did some deadlift in the past.
Been saying this for YEARS. Everybody wants to push science, science, science but it's typically the coaches that get you in the TRENCHES that yield the best results. Great video as always man!
I like your idea of using science as a starting point, as opposed to putting all your eggs into one basket (the basket being health studies). Also, good on you for that Spinal Tap bit 🎸
Love the dexter reference
I wish I had Jeff Nippard's mucle mass but a grown adult body height!
Can tou recommend books in general? Not about fitness, but books which everyone should read
Nippards program is one of the best cookie cutter programs that ive ever run, its wild to see him get lumped with seedman