If you're tired of WADING through the BULLSHIT of the fitness industry, grab my book, it'll help a LOT. Feedback has been amazing. Appreciate the support! www.verityfit.com/product-page/sweat
A few years back, I realized that I was lifting like a much younger man on gear. I cut out some volume, put in some more rest days, and my strength (and some mass) started to increase. I don't really chase an aesthetic, so all I needed to see was the increase in performance.
I’ve been natural my whole life - I’m 61 now. I saw friends 25-30 years ago who needed heart bypass and stents put in due to using PED’s, let alone the acne, hair loss, & sexual difficulties encountered. I’m still sporting 18” arms and a 32” waist. Yea, I never got a 20” set of arms, but I also have a fully functioning set of testes. My friends - who are still alive - are all HRT, and look like they’re 80 years old now. Sad.
@@karnazacss my father is 56 and his test sits between 700-850 ng/dl. I don't believe age is a major factor in test drop, the real factor is the lives most people over 30 live. My father is in the sun everyday, jogs 5 days a week, trains Jitz and eats mostly meat, fruit and veg.
Sleep is super important for naturals, that point can't be stated enough times. Getting all 8hrs preferably during nighttime bcz that's when our bodies are programmed to sleep for optimum Testosterone production and it is during nighttime sleep that our bodies does all the maintenance/recuperation/repair stuff - circadian rhythm.
I'm a steroid user, I tried many things over the years, and in the end, what worked the best was a upper/lower split, training 4x a week (6x a week makes me grow less, even on very high dosages, I tested), rotating exercises 2 to 4 weeks, focusing on compound movements and progression (the exercises that I do are exercises commonly done by powerlifters, with the powerlifting technique, I do squat variations for the quads, I do deadlift variations for the posterior chain, bench presses for the chest, OHPs for shoulders, rows for back and accessories/isolations for improving those movements) , it sounds like one of the best ways for a natural to train, and it is, but it is one of the best ways for a enhanced to train as well, but when you use steroids, you can get pretty good results doing very unoptimal stuff, just by upping the dosage and the food intake. These days I get much better results by using a moderate to high dosage of testosterone only, than two years ago using test, tren and dbol at the same time, just because I train in a way that even a natural would get good results.
Man that's pretty sad that you chose to shorten your life just so you can make yourself think you got so much bigger and stronger with drugs. Hey young people who are halfway smart. Your mind already has the ability to create more testosterone if that's what you truly want. But here's the thing. It's not the testosterone that's responsible for muscle growth. It's your mind. Putting an off-balance ratio of this synthetic chemical in your body is slowly killing you. You're only growing because you believe this testosterone is the reason. If you stop drinking the "koolade" you'll notice that there are people who have extraordinary amount of muscle on their frames before finding out they have "low T" and once they find this out they run right out and buy, guess what they buy... Testosterone. That's right. Pharm... Your body already produces test. Stop purchasing it. You're just being dumb! Anybody who tells you there's something wrong with you, and also sell the cure beware. Bye bye
This was a really helpful comment, thanks man! I'm in my late 30s, still pretty new to training, and have been on 100mg trt for the past 9 months. I've seen pretty great results, but unfortunately don't know how much I can attribute to trt vs the work I put in along with the diet/training/rest regiment I've implemented. I'm about to enter a bulk and curious if the p-ratio advice he gave for enhanced vs natty applies equally to someone on trt vs someone on trt + other compounds? Did you find that you were able to bulk more aggressively when you were stacking as opposed to only using test? Thanks in advance
I love it when folks like you spit facts on this topic. I'm tired of these BS and when juiced up dudes say it's the same way to train as a natural or enhanced...
Very good point. Something I hear enhanced lifters harp on about is the mind muscle connection. Maybe I'm physically inept, but when I do some hard ass sets I rarely feel a given muscle working. Still super fatigued in the target area right after the set, still mild DOMs the next day. To me, this highlights the importance of good form. If your form is good, whether you feel it or not, there's no way that the weight can be moved from A-B without the desired muscle groups getting worked.
If we’re not sharp and our reactions get worse and we feel sluggish then it will have an effect on the way we lift When we feel tired we don’t push with as much enthusiasm and we might rest on the reps just a little. A way to know our connection is bad is if we don’t know where to start with the first rep or take a second to get a grip of it when lift off.
"Butt nuggets" dude you're hilarious.😂 Keep up the wacky intros bro they really add a interesting touch to the videos. The humor doesn't go unappreciated bro. 🙏
Finally, someone says it like it is! Bravo! You also explained why I can never get to a good natty level... Multiple weekends of high cardio mountain walking/cycling.... I indeed look a wee bit stringy who might curl.
I usually just lurk around, but felt compelled to comment for the algorithm gods. Essential video for anyone starting out, in fact, not just starting out - there's so many experienced nattys (in terms of years, not lifting progress) who swear by "chasing the pump" and limited ROM for "constant tension in the inner pecs, bro".
#8 so much. There's certainly always a risk, and if you push yourself and compete, you'll probably catch a minor injury or 2 at some point, but these pecs and biceps becoming detached is almost a non concern at all for the natty bros.
Yea when Brignole was talking about the "dangers" of preacher curls for the biceps or the bench for the pecs I really thought about saying something like... "well yea...for _you_ ..."
Very important video! All beginners should see it. The dishonesty about PEDs is a great problem for the fitness industry. I’d like to emphazise this aspect of being natural: I started training olympic lifting when I was 10, 1965, have been active all my life, never used any PEDs and is at 69 a decent powerlifter in my age category. ( will be even better next year, when I can compete in M4.) And I have no injuries, on the contrary, I am perfectly healthy in every way. I doubt people who have used drugs can say the same. For example, I think you will get problems with your joints when you get older if you have used PEDs earlier in your career.
I think the mind/muscle connection might be even more important (and perhaps harder to obtain) for naturals. That doesn't mean using it to chase the "pump" however.
What an amazing video, you summed everything i leanred in 6 years in a 21 mints video, ive been lifting for 6 years and im stuck at a stage, ive discovered that i was doing too much volume 15-20 sets per session once a week, all sets 1-0 RIR, i was only gaining fat and barely any muscles, now im cutting to start over again without that high volume which actually killed my gains.
Holy shit, Levrone on and off the gear is... like two different people. I've seen retired or older guys like Yates and Arnold, but it is quite striking to see a relatively young guy off the sauce. I can see why someone could get addicted (psychologically) to that stuff. It makes you look like a superhero.
Wow - fast turnaround on this subject, love it! You did a great job looking at this from all angles, should be required viewing for everyone before they try PED's.
@@thesimontemplar279 I didn't see that video, searched for it and it's 3 years old. After more searching, you are right, there are a decent amount of videos on this topic. Still doesn't take away the value of this one, especially for folks that don't watch a ton of videos or other channels. If you don't like GVS just don't watch, no need to be negative, the world has enough of that already.
20:15 I was about to say, "what about Cardio?" -- enhanced lifters, according to what they say in their videos, sure seem to do a lot of cardio that doesn't impact their gains. Then you finally brought it up and I had to edit my comment. Great vidoe.
I started lifting in the early 2000's and used to read a website where - as it turned out - every single recommendation was written by enhanced lifters. I used to use bro-splits. I used to eat every 2-3 hours (I had a bunch of little food boxes), a lot of maltodextrin based supplements before/after workout. I used to eat 3 gr/kg (not lbs) protein. I used to eat rice/chicken/broccoli 4 times a day, 10 eggwhites in the morning and a bunch of cottage cheese before sleep. I used to get up in the middle of the night for a protein shake... I used to not eat fat and fruits at all. I used to do 2-3 hours of low intensity cardio during diets. I used to go to failure in every single set. And I tried a million different supplements. All this as natural. It didn't turn out too well... :D
I think there can be moral consequences of taking illegal drugs. For instance, where I live, everyone lives in fear of a cartel that makes its money by selling drugs. The people buying those drugs are the ones funding these cartels. I think that's an ethical issue that's worth considering. Plus, with the fitness industry, I think we should strive to be good fitness role models. Just like it wouldn't be right to promote lifting + heroin, I don't think it makes sense for us to promote lifting + other illegal and unhealthy drugs, such as steroids. People might see us, imitate us, and wind up with health problems or legal troubles. When influencers are honest about their drug-fuelled lifestyles, I mean, yeah, it's honest… but they're also influencing people to follow in those footsteps, so it's potentially even more harmful, in a way. Not that people don't have agency or that they aren't responsible for making their own decisions, but I still think it helps when role models and influencers are leading by example when they can. And it's not that everyone is perfect or that making a mistake means that someone is bad. But I feel comfortable saying that taking steroids is a moral choice, especially if those steroids are illegal, and especially if that person is influencing others. Mind you, they might be wonderful people in many other ways.
By the way, you could try splitting long videos like this into 2-3 videos (ie part1, part 2, etc) maybe it could help make the videos more palatable for people who don’t want to spend a lot of time on a video in one sitting. Just an idea ;) Also keep up the great work!
I would also say that most newbies that hit tte gym for the first couple of years train with splits like enhanced lifters and it works for them. Because they are new to training ofc they get gains but they attribute it to bro splits and then spread that around. I got huge on starting strength but i don't recommend it since it was just a dreamer bulk (i was VERY low bodyfat)+ newb gains + more than 5 mins betweens sets in the end so i could keep progressing. but if it didnt stop working very fast i would not get educated on ex science. People with good response to training in bro splits ( they are still the most common i think) will grow and group with the roid monsters so most people say bro splits and pump. It is a HELL of journey through an endless stream of shit till you can finally program yourself out of plateaus. I would have liked to find this channel when i started out
I was looking at a study comparing old bodybuilder average life expectancy compared to modern bodybuilding life expectancy In the 30s, 40s and 50s bodybuilding was the best sport for average life expectancy, the average for professionals was up in the high 60s and 70s, what was super super high for the time, but nowadays the life expectancy is in the 50s for professionals and bodybuilding is considered one of the worst sports for health. I think what we can take of that is that more muscle mass correlates to a better life expectancy until a certain point (maximum natural point), where after that point life expectancy start to decrease with more muscle mass (after being enhanced)
Yes, there's a *reason* why naturals can't get that big. The body prevents it because the extra muscle is bad for survival, bad for health, bad for general fitness. Running at over 220lbs on an average frame is just tough, regardless of if it's muscle or fat.
@@GVS lol yeah i said ur post that u said running was start to get hard and u like 96kg right? And i would say u are in like 0.001% of lifters so that says a lot
Thanks for the video puts my workouts in some perspective and funny how I as well for trapped in training like an enhanced in my 20s. Loving the book and have enjoyed your advance beast mode workouts done it for 2 months and noticed some great gains. Keep posting this informative content!!!
Can you please do a video on cardio. Breaking it down and suggesting strategies on how to implement it to maximize gains in terms of strength and hypertrophy.
I like your video I have been taking trt doses for a while and I didn't know about the pump thing. I have been sick for the past like 4 weeks and my strength is pretty much all still there because the trt came in clutch. But it's a good thing you are telling people these things and it's not like you don't know. I'm sure you have talked to plenty of people who have used to some degree.
Captivating analogy & well put together well that's enough about me I look forward to your next post signed A fat bloke who will watch youtube to get fit
Preach it brother! I get about 65% of my calories from fat. You really do need a decent amount of fat to feel normal. This low fat high carbohydrate stuff is really for people cutting or on gear.
@@con999t This is clearly not true. Your liver makes all the glucose you need. You can build muscle no problem on a full zero carb carnivore diet. I've done it and many others have. You just need some insulin release for optimal muscle growth and protein does that as well. If you eat a whole food animal centric diet, 65% is very easy to hit. It's actually the ratio found in nature. Low fat, high carb diets are the odd ball diets. Not found in nature and can only be achieved with things like canned tuna in water, skinless chicken breast and whey protein powder. Because whole food animal protein comes with plenty of fat. Fat is far more crucial for overall health than carbohydrates. That why these lean guys see their test drop, the sex drive plument and sleep tank. You need fat on your body and you need to eat fat. There's essential fatty acids and essential amino acids. There is no essential carbohydrates. So there's your bif clue. I like some carbohydrates, but 15-20% is plenty for optimal muscle protein synthesis and recovery.
One of the things I fucked up when I was a beginner was trying to do lots of cardio after weight lifting and it was literally impossible to maintain that for more than a month (I was doing like almost 2 hours daily) and because of that I quit doing cardio for years and recently I implemented just doing 40 minutes of walking and 0 problems at all I even look leaner than when I was doing more because I used to get urges for eating tons of food after a cardio session
I’ve been lifting for over 10 years as a natty for most of it, not natty anymore. But bro splits always worked best for me with high volume and higher rep ranges. Some people like PPL more, but for me it just made me stronger not bigger, and I definitely lost arm size. Everyone’s different, natty or not!
Some of these explain The Rock's behaviour in a way that's almost scary, especially the one where you mention steroid users eating 6-8 meals, as well as the reduced need for sleep.
@@HkFinn83 i bet lots of casuals probably see him working out talking about dedication and chicken and broccoli and they buy it hook line and sinker lol
I think this is interesting because I’ve noticed most of my results in muscle development have been when I do 4-5 sets high volume 15-20 rep range. I am natural and also only work out 4-5 times a week now. When I was doing a 3 on 1 off PPL split I noticed phenomenal growth for about two months and then it dropped off, though this could also be because of stress due to the job I had at the time. I think it’s good to warm up with a pump exercise and then really beat your muscles up to failure, my last set of a work out is always a drop set (I prefer over doing partial reps because I have very weak joints and don’t really want to risk injury). I think as a natural you just want to emphasize muscle damage and progressive overload, and only work out muscles when fully recovered (typically I do one day on one day off back/chest then legs then arms/shoulders) but then throw in an extra day or two per week for my genetic weak points (typically shoulders, glutes, and calves) though I’m starting to prioritize flexibility and mobility so 6 days a week just isn’t working for me.
Geoff, since April 2021 I have been following a "pump" type work out plan. High reps to failure, 3-4 sets. 7 to 11 exercises per muscle group. I have seen nice gains. I am not a beginner, I lifted weights in my late 20s(now in my mid 50s). It is November now, and I went from looking fat to looking like a guy that lifts. I never did steroids in the past and not using an PEPs now. Mike
also do a vid on differences between powerlifting strength training and hypertrophy training, i think people mix up training specifies of the two, there are clear differences people have to understand
The pump does matter even for naturals. Before I hopped on Anavar (I use it for 8wk cycles maybe twice a year and go natural for the rest of it), I only did powerlifting style workouts with some bodybuilding style short rest period workouts. Even then, the most I’d do is 6 reps per set but really focus on mind muscle connection. I got great results from that, but I only really started blowing up from chasing the pump whilst still keeping half my workouts with heavy weights. After I started using Anavar, it exaggerated my gains further even though I was using it on a cut. The pump does matter but I agree with everything else- especially about progressive overload.
Good day. Since I found your channel you've become my favorite fitness RUclipsr. Love the integrity, the fact you're natural, the whole package. However, I am skeptical of this theory that there is a big difference between how naturals and druggies should train. I haven't seen any evidence of this. I think drugs help with any style of lifting. There are plenty of druggie powerlifters that train heavy virtually all the time. I think you might be conflating how a lot of top bodybuilders train with drugs making that training better. I think it's more that they are so strong that training heavy has become too much of an injury risk. Yes, part of the reason their strength has become dangerous is the drugs, but that is different from what you're saying. They may have actually gotten that big from heavy compounds, but now they get injured because training heavy requires too much weight. On the flip side, the science seems to show that anything from 5 to 30 reps is roughly equal for hypertrophy, so there's no reason why a natural couldn't build muscle with high reps. One danger of what you're espousing is a natural listening to you may think they have to train heavy regardless of injury risk or joint health. For example, I train triceps with high reps because low reps are a no go for my elbows. A young kid watching you may falsely believe he has to train heavy despite the pain because he's natty.
On the cardio point. People like Douchette recommend a ton of cardio. He himself bikes very intensely all the time. Makes me think he's on more than just HRT.
Real question I struggle with, G, if you can help me out. I work night shift and sleep in "shifts" usually 3-5 hours x2 a day. Sometimes I don't get my full 8 hours. If I know that I'm gonna have a few days of rough/limited sleep (1-3 days), should I skip a workout and spend the time recovering? I ask bc this may limit my gym sessions to 3-4 days a week.
On #13 - Carbohydrates - the informational text says (1) carbs can help naturals by blunting cortisol release and (2) you take 150gm+ "around" workouts: 1. Do you have a video about this already? 2. Is there a suggested range based on body weight, like with protein? 3. Is this a detail meant more for advanced lifters, or a good general rule for all lifters? 4. "Around workouts" is pre, intra, post, or doesn't matter much? 5. Just noting that 150g = 600 calories! That would a lot for me.
1. No but I might do one. 2. No I don't choose 150g specifically, it's just 1L skim milk and 1.25L orange juice 3. Probably more for advanced. 4. pre and intra is better 5. scale it down. I'm bulking and on probably close to 3500-4000 calories so it's just a liquid meal.
Awesome topic Geoffrey! One thought though: Not sure if this is how it was meant, but couldn’t a natural still benefit from 5 protein “feedings” a day? I know you said 3-4 which is probably fine, but is there not a benefit to just hitting 5 if you can? Love your videos man!
Maybe a small benefit but I really think that if you compared the gains over the long term of 4 vs 5 feedings the difference would be very minor if even measureable. Differences of 2 vs 3 might show up but 4 vs 5 isn't worth worrying about much.
tl;dr: Naturals have been successful on both higher and lower frequencies, but I'm beginning to think higher frequencies have a lower margin of error and most casual lifters are better off with lower frequencies, "optimal" or not. I'm not normally one to comment on fitness RUclips, but this video touches on something I'm in the middle of changing my mind on. I decided to skip the long personal anecdote here to keep the focus on the logic rather than my anecdotal experience. I'll just say I had success on a lower frequency, each-movement-pattern-once-per-week, stagnated on higher frequency, and now I'm going back to the lower frequency approach. On one hand, people say the advantage of steroids is that you recover faster so you can train harder and more often. On the other hand, people say the disadvantage of being natural is that you recover slower, so...you have to train harder and more often? This advice seems to work better if I think about training first, recovery second: Train hard enough you are sure you got a stimulus. Train again when you're sure you're recovered. Let frequency fall where it may, whether you are natural or enhanced. Low frequency might undershoot optimal by having lower weekly volume or frequency but higher frequency can undershoot due to lower intensity and volume (harder to push on Monday know you have to do it again Thursday), *and* it can overshoot optimal by grinding you down trying to keep to an arbitrary schedule with low-to-no margin of error in recovery days. Many people may well end up lifting with higher frequency as they find they recover well enough to go hard more than once per week, but that decision is based on their own observable performance and perception of recovery. Starting high frequency based on the idea of keeping unobservable rates of muscle protein synthesis high encourages people to chase theoretical, population-based-averages and ignore how they are actually performing and feeling, which is the only thing that matters on the individual level.
@@cv0669 4 days: Squat, Bench, Deadlift, Overhead Press. Heavy top sets, lots of backoff sets, minimal accessories. Basically, keep doing main lift sets until I'm tired of it (burn, pump, and/or fatigue set in), not based on a fixed number, safe in the knowledge that 1) I'm not doing much after that lift, and 2) I have a week to recover. If I have more than a main lift & 1 accessory for a muscle group on my schedule, I run into this two-sided coin of not having enough time/sets to really get into each lift even if I wanted to, but I also don't want to because I have to save energy for all the other lifts I have to do in that workout...worst of both worlds! I do horizontal *and* vertical pulling on both upper body days though, because I think pulls just can't be worked as hard as pushes due to the different strength curves.
Interesting as I have had a similar experience..as a natural starting on a bro split years ago I was influenced by the advice on higher training frequencies to maximise ‘protein synthesis’. As an intermediate lifter at 34 with an un physically demanding job I had plateaued on all my lifts and decided to Commit to a 2 year experiment with equated volume and higher frequencies (2 day split 3 times a week with sunday as a rest day - therefore each muscle troupe worked 3 times a week) and noted the following in order: 1. Initially strength increased dramatically on all lifts I assume due to neutral adaptations practicing each lift more frequently 2. Muscle size increased and body fat decreased - this happened quickly but it was deceptive as the higher training frequency caused a constant pump which felt good and looked good but I don’t believe was actually tissue growth and the higher training frequency required I work multiple muscle groups in one day simple increasing my calorie burn. 3. As time went on and I gained strength I could not push for progressive overload in lower rep ranges as frequently and eventually My primary rep range has shifted from 6-12 reps to 12-20. This was due to 2 factors, firstly exhaustion I.e simply not having the capacity and aggression to drive heavier weights with intensity and secondly niggling joint pain and tendinitis I started getting in my elbow. 4. Eventually I started getting brain fog and my sleep quality deteriorated, I felt exhausted most of the time and began to dread working out every day, although I was getting plenty of food in an effort to stop the over training effects I ate more, this didn’t help as there’s only so much nutrient partitioning you can do as a natural so instead I started putting on body fat…by this point my strength had stalled in all rep ranges I was exhausted and my joints hurt, I had to take 2 full weeks off to recover. High training frequencies work well on paper and initially in the gym BUT (assuming progressive overload is the key to size in a natural lifter ) are unsustainable in the long run due to factors not taken into account in the many studies describing increased frequency of protein synthesis for natural lifters as the only way to train. These days I train with an A B A/ B A B split training only three days a week but hitting each muscle every 4-5 days. The joint pain has cleared up and the recovery days between workouts allows me to really push hard on the days I train. Moral of the story in my experience training frequency is important but only part of the picture…in the long run over recovery is better than under recovery
Sorry in advance if my comment ends up turning into a novel. I noticed the same thing with my own programming and your comment caught my interest. You are definitely correct that higher frequencies have a lower margin for error, especially if you're performing the exact same movements multiple times per week. And the reasoning for this has to do with the recovery curves of the nervous system. Muscles recover extremely fast (like 1-2 days) but recruiting those muscles is limited by the state of the nervous system. Anytime you have an effortful lifting session the movements you used probably will be in a recovery curve for around a week before you can put forth the same effort and repeat the performance (assuming you're interested in hypertrophy and you're getting close to failure on your sets and using the same movements). So while it most definitely is beneficial to hit muscles multiple times a week you have to know how to program that which comes down to movement selection. So yeah, I think it makes total sense that you had success only performing movements once per week, especially if you had previously been performing movements multiple times per week. Past the beginner stage, anytime you perform the exact same movement multiple times a week you have to do a few things to ensure you won't stagnate with the movement pattern: 1. Vary the sets/reps/weight you perform each session. 2. Vary the effort used each session. 3. Vary the stance/tempo. However, in my experience from someone more interested in hypertrophy, even when employing these things I still find myself better off if I just pick a different but similar movement pattern that still hits the prime movers. So incline over flat benching, front squat over back squat, etc. You want enough of a difference to prevent staleness but similar enough to where you still have carryover. By changing the movement you're still able to stress the muscles hard because your effort is high, which is ideal if you're mainly interested in hypertrophy. Varying up the sets/reps/weight/effort/stance/tempo are things you would do if you were a powerlifter and more interested in increasing strength for a particular movement. I actually still find it's easier to make strength progress doing most movements once per week, especially on accessory lifts. Basically just build up to one really hard set, doing 3-4 sets total and my performance increases in some way almost every week. When I hit the same movement multiple times a week it improves initially for a short period but then I stagnate shortly after.
@@cv0669 Hitting PPL 6 times a week but saying you moved away from higher frequency cracks me up. I know you probably mean you moved away from hitting the same movement patterns with high frequency but still. PPL 6 times is a pretty terrible split. Not that it's terrible for everyone, it's just not a split I would recommend the majority of people follow.
I have a little question about cardio. I cycle daily as a form of transport, never get out of breath though, would this count as light cardio do you think?
Am I still natural if I focus and meditate upon my pituitary glands and have them secrete more GH and my testes to produce more testosterone and other androgens?
Very good video. There is a lot of aweful fitness influencers and drug abusers such as ryan humiston giving terrible advice on how to train if you are natural. Telling bs like you need to go for the pump bro splits. Telling that progressive overload is dumb etc
I just wanna say this- Almost all too bodybuilders nowadays have ditched the pump/volume training. Iain, nick walker, James hollongshead, Hunter labrada - all these guys do two working sets to abs beyond failure and use progressive overload. Im on gear and I try like this. Btw, still love your channel
Things are definitely changing, yes. DC training has always been popular in that community and the top guys pretty much all lift heavy, with many not doing huge volume. Just observing general trends.
Great video! Back in the 80s we all lapped up the BS from Weider in Muscle and Fitness with their ridiculous programmes for juiced pros. What a frickin joke. Years of wasted time. 😳
Although, there are plenty and almost too many examples of nattys who are big and almost seem to thrive on lower volumes/frequency’s Jeff Alberts, Ben Howard, Matt Ogus even got big on a 4 day 5/3/1, he’s not a bber but Greg O as well, Etc. And even enhanced guys got arguably huger (if that’s a word lol) on lower volume higher intensity; Mike Mentzer, Dorian Yates, Arthur Jones and these are the guys who changed the game with their physique. When Yates came out he showed there’s a new baseline for size and Mentzer was the first bber EVER to get a perfect score. Also don’t loose sight of the end goal, this is a marathon not a sprint, don’t hyper focus on optimization. It means absolutely nothing if you don’t love your training cause you’ll eventually quit because of the resentment or find more excuses not to go, as well it’s been well documented workouts going over 1 hour is more catabolic then anabolic because the duration the body’s under stress. And finally to this point don’t forget it takes 2-3x as long for joints and connective tissue to recover and repair. The body is very multifaceted. Just progress, train intensely and fall in love with it…
So, I'm probably not the only one, but I'm confused as to what is actually effective for the natural lifter. For instance, if you do 3-4 sets for biceps, do you take each rep to failure, or just the last set ? Or if you go to failure, do you even bother with multiple sets ? It's just confusing at this point, because I have been working out for a while now (different approaches) and don't really see many results other than getting a bit stronger. Hypertrophy though, meh.
@@spiritual_fitness Well, it been an off and on thing throughout the years, but this most recent period has been about...half a year now maybe. I mean, I've realized now that you can't listen to anyone whose physique is possibly to roids (which cancels just about all the "greats"). Therefore you find yourself bouncing back and forth between conflicting information, and it just confuses you as to what REALLY works. Now, I will say that since I've started going close to failure/to failure I have started feeling a difference, and slightly visibly noticed a difference, but I've had this happen before, then nothing. I just want to make sure I'm getting the hypertrophy workout more so than strength, endurance, etc, which brings me back to my original question -- what is the correct way to accomplish this ? LOL
@@whatwouldlewdo tbh, your problem sounds like very tailored towards you. You can do two things 1)continue experimenting, as it's your own body and you will know best by different approaches. 2)Hire a coach that'll be costly ngl and there's third option listen to my thoughts, I'm very much novice lifter so take that with a grain of salt. First things measurements are necessary, inches on arms with current body weight with bodyfat if you can calculate. idk if you are keeping this so I added it. Visual pics which i think you're doing but i still added. these two are needed apart from training log. lets tackle your question, Let me take a bicep movement I'm currently doing. Ez bar Preacher Curl (6-12), i know weird rep range. I added this movement on 27th Jul 2023, I was 78.88kgs Bodyweight, 27.6% bodyfat with right arm 14.1 inches & left arm 13.9 inches i did that day, 2 main sets 1 extra with lower weight, because 3rd set i cannot do within the rep range with same weight unless i increase rest time. 1st set: 8 x 10kgs rir 1-2 2nd set: 6 x 10kgs rir 0 3rd set : 9 x 5kgs rir 1-2 On 19th Aug, after 2 weeks, I was 75.99kgs bodyweight close to 24.9% bodyfat, with right arm 13.9inches & left arm 13.7 inches. on that day I added the third set with my working weight, because I felt I could add another set with same weight and rep range. 1st set: 10 x 10kgs rir 1 2nd set: 7 x 10kgs rir 1 3rd set: 6 x 10kgs rir 0 now, I gained some reps and 1 more set which is volume if I just look at training log, but after seeing measurements, I lost inches on arm but also lost bodyfat & weight, so i know what I gained was muscle. Now it could be other bicep exercises helped yes, but i only do strict EZ-bar Curl and Dumbell Spyder curl so not many exercise selection. also rest times comes into play, i always superset preacher curl with 3sets of cable Pushdown so rest may vary which causes dips in performance for both lifts. so fast forward to last preacher curl session, 11th sep 2023, I'm 73.5kgs other measurements I've yet to do, body fat is definitely down. but don't know about arm measurements. i did 1st set : 7 x 15kgs rir 0 2nd set : 5 x 15kgs rir 0 as you can see, I've gained some strength and reduced my sets to two because i failed the 2nd set to fall within rep range so I ended the session there, otherwise i could have added another set by lowering the weight but didn't felt necessary because both were very intense set. so to answer your question your sets will increase or decrease depending upon your rep range & rest times. but this is only one factor, bodyweight, bodyfat%, pics, inches on arms will also help determine muscle gain. One more thing, if even above is you're doing but you don't see visual or inches on arms it's time to do some proper exercise selection because this is definitely possible the exercise you're doing is not targeting the muscle you're trying to hit, but recruiting other muscles like forearms, shoulders which happens to me aswell. I'm no expert but hope this helps 👍
By no means are they just the icing on the cake. But the size gains you’ll get on PEDs are blown out of proportions. The size I believe still takes time. Most people just put on a lot of fat and water. What you will get from my experience is. 100% for sure is strength increase. Talking about repping your 1rm in a matter of months. And you get a different look on them.
If you're tired of WADING through the BULLSHIT of the fitness industry, grab my book, it'll help a LOT. Feedback has been amazing. Appreciate the support!
www.verityfit.com/product-page/sweat
A few years back, I realized that I was lifting like a much younger man on gear. I cut out some volume, put in some more rest days, and my strength (and some mass) started to increase. I don't really chase an aesthetic, so all I needed to see was the increase in performance.
I’ve been natural my whole life - I’m 61 now. I saw friends 25-30 years ago who needed heart bypass and stents put in due to using PED’s, let alone the acne, hair loss, & sexual difficulties encountered. I’m still sporting 18” arms and a 32” waist. Yea, I never got a 20” set of arms, but I also have a fully functioning set of testes. My friends - who are still alive - are all HRT, and look like they’re 80 years old now. Sad.
That's awesome, but at 61 you should be on TRT too. Everyone should at that age.
@@karnazacss that's bad advice
@@karnazacss my father is 56 and his test sits between 700-850 ng/dl. I don't believe age is a major factor in test drop, the real factor is the lives most people over 30 live. My father is in the sun everyday, jogs 5 days a week, trains Jitz and eats mostly meat, fruit and veg.
@@karnazacss not with a good lifestyle
I would of thought jumping on trt would help you look younger?
You might be natural, but your videos are definitely enhancing 👌🏻👌🏻
gym rizz
Sleep is super important for naturals, that point can't be stated enough times. Getting all 8hrs preferably during nighttime bcz that's when our bodies are programmed to sleep for optimum Testosterone production and it is during nighttime sleep that our bodies does all the maintenance/recuperation/repair stuff - circadian rhythm.
100 percent. When I get good sleep. I feel like I am super human. When I don't get sleep I don't bother working out.
I agree too, and as you mention when it gets light the Cicadas are so loud it’s nearly impossible to sleep:(
I'm a steroid user, I tried many things over the years, and in the end, what worked the best was a upper/lower split, training 4x a week (6x a week makes me grow less, even on very high dosages, I tested), rotating exercises 2 to 4 weeks, focusing on compound movements and progression (the exercises that I do are exercises commonly done by powerlifters, with the powerlifting technique, I do squat variations for the quads, I do deadlift variations for the posterior chain, bench presses for the chest, OHPs for shoulders, rows for back and accessories/isolations for improving those movements) , it sounds like one of the best ways for a natural to train, and it is, but it is one of the best ways for a enhanced to train as well, but when you use steroids, you can get pretty good results doing very unoptimal stuff, just by upping the dosage and the food intake. These days I get much better results by using a moderate to high dosage of testosterone only, than two years ago using test, tren and dbol at the same time, just because I train in a way that even a natural would get good results.
man, im very interested in training that way, can you send the full training split and exercises???? including the usual reps
Man that's pretty sad that you chose to shorten your life just so you can make yourself think you got so much bigger and stronger with drugs. Hey young people who are halfway smart. Your mind already has the ability to create more testosterone if that's what you truly want. But here's the thing. It's not the testosterone that's responsible for muscle growth. It's your mind. Putting an off-balance ratio of this synthetic chemical in your body is slowly killing you. You're only growing because you believe this testosterone is the reason. If you stop drinking the "koolade" you'll notice that there are people who have extraordinary amount of muscle on their frames before finding out they have "low T" and once they find this out they run right out and buy, guess what they buy... Testosterone. That's right. Pharm... Your body already produces test. Stop purchasing it. You're just being dumb! Anybody who tells you there's something wrong with you, and also sell the cure beware. Bye bye
Cringe roider
This was a really helpful comment, thanks man! I'm in my late 30s, still pretty new to training, and have been on 100mg trt for the past 9 months. I've seen pretty great results, but unfortunately don't know how much I can attribute to trt vs the work I put in along with the diet/training/rest regiment I've implemented.
I'm about to enter a bulk and curious if the p-ratio advice he gave for enhanced vs natty applies equally to someone on trt vs someone on trt + other compounds? Did you find that you were able to bulk more aggressively when you were stacking as opposed to only using test?
Thanks in advance
I love it when folks like you spit facts on this topic. I'm tired of these BS and when juiced up dudes say it's the same way to train as a natural or enhanced...
So in summation…it’s like Natty’s are from Mars, & Enhanced are from Venus.
@@dustencross357 lol
Very good point.
Something I hear enhanced lifters harp on about is the mind muscle connection. Maybe I'm physically inept, but when I do some hard ass sets I rarely feel a given muscle working. Still super fatigued in the target area right after the set, still mild DOMs the next day.
To me, this highlights the importance of good form. If your form is good, whether you feel it or not, there's no way that the weight can be moved from A-B without the desired muscle groups getting worked.
If we’re not sharp and our reactions get worse and we feel sluggish then it will have an effect on the way we lift
When we feel tired we don’t push with as much enthusiasm and we might rest on the reps just a little.
A way to know our connection is bad is if we don’t know where to start with the first rep or take a second to get a grip of it when lift off.
I've never felt my lats in my life, and I can do strict muscle ups. Let's see if one arm pull ups will make me feel them
"Butt nuggets" dude you're hilarious.😂 Keep up the wacky intros bro they really add a interesting touch to the videos.
The humor doesn't go unappreciated bro. 🙏
This video has been so helpful. I’m a noobie lifter (been lifting 12 months). I’m definitely staying natural.
Now subscribed to your channel
Finally, someone says it like it is! Bravo! You also explained why I can never get to a good natty level... Multiple weekends of high cardio mountain walking/cycling.... I indeed look a wee bit stringy who might curl.
Closing in on 40K subs, and 50K is right around the corner learning a lot from your content man, keep up the informative content 🐐
I usually just lurk around, but felt compelled to comment for the algorithm gods. Essential video for anyone starting out, in fact, not just starting out - there's so many experienced nattys (in terms of years, not lifting progress) who swear by "chasing the pump" and limited ROM for "constant tension in the inner pecs, bro".
I'm late to the party but this video has helped massively. Thank you, too many enhanced youtubers telling newbies how they should be training.
Did he just call us "butt nuggets"?
Love his videos.
#8 so much. There's certainly always a risk, and if you push yourself and compete, you'll probably catch a minor injury or 2 at some point, but these pecs and biceps becoming detached is almost a non concern at all for the natty bros.
Yea when Brignole was talking about the "dangers" of preacher curls for the biceps or the bench for the pecs I really thought about saying something like...
"well yea...for _you_ ..."
Your capacity to grind through reps is so impressive! Makes me want to try harder every time I see you train.
Very important video! All beginners should see it. The dishonesty about PEDs is a great problem for the fitness industry. I’d like to emphazise this aspect of being natural: I started training olympic lifting when I was 10, 1965, have been active all my life, never used any PEDs and is at 69 a decent powerlifter in my age category. ( will be even better next year, when I can compete in M4.) And I have no injuries, on the contrary, I am perfectly healthy in every way. I doubt people who have used drugs can say the same. For example, I think you will get problems with your joints when you get older if you have used PEDs earlier in your career.
Honestly, your content is so good for my mental health. Thanks man! I am glad that you're exposing the saussy guys
Excellent points. People think that just because they won a bodybuilding show, it makes them a coach without having to study anything.
I've heard this many times: "bro, he looks way better than you, why would I listen to YOU".
Slapping that algo here. Thanks.
Great information! Me typing this past midnight and impacting my sleep 🙃
I think the mind/muscle connection might be even more important (and perhaps harder to obtain) for naturals. That doesn't mean using it to chase the "pump" however.
Just here to slap around that algo. Keep'em natural videos coming bro. 🙏🏻
That was the most comprehensive vireo about this subject I had seen. Thank you
What an amazing video, you summed everything i leanred in 6 years in a 21 mints video, ive been lifting for 6 years and im stuck at a stage, ive discovered that i was doing too much volume 15-20 sets per session once a week, all sets 1-0 RIR, i was only gaining fat and barely any muscles, now im cutting to start over again without that high volume which actually killed my gains.
Holy shit, Levrone on and off the gear is... like two different people. I've seen retired or older guys like Yates and Arnold, but it is quite striking to see a relatively young guy off the sauce. I can see why someone could get addicted (psychologically) to that stuff. It makes you look like a superhero.
Wow - fast turnaround on this subject, love it! You did a great job looking at this from all angles, should be required viewing for everyone before they try PED's.
The subject has been covered a gazillion times before, most notably by a collab between John Meadows and Jeff Nippard. Nothing new here, as per usual
@@thesimontemplar279 I didn't see that video, searched for it and it's 3 years old. After more searching, you are right, there are a decent amount of videos on this topic. Still doesn't take away the value of this one, especially for folks that don't watch a ton of videos or other channels. If you don't like GVS just don't watch, no need to be negative, the world has enough of that already.
Great video! Never seen this comparison made so thoroughly, good job.
Most important video ever! Thank you very much Sir! Wish you did this many years ago.
Man this is solid gold for the few of us they aren’t on the sauce.
20:15 I was about to say, "what about Cardio?" -- enhanced lifters, according to what they say in their videos, sure seem to do a lot of cardio that doesn't impact their gains. Then you finally brought it up and I had to edit my comment. Great vidoe.
Thank you Geoffrey! Learned a lot from this video.
The way you came in on this one was hilarious 😂
#3 (3:17) for a natural is a point I've never heard anyone put together so succinctly, for how the training plan frequency per muscle matters.
I started lifting in the early 2000's and used to read a website where - as it turned out - every single recommendation was written by enhanced lifters.
I used to use bro-splits. I used to eat every 2-3 hours (I had a bunch of little food boxes), a lot of maltodextrin based supplements before/after workout. I used to eat 3 gr/kg (not lbs) protein. I used to eat rice/chicken/broccoli 4 times a day, 10 eggwhites in the morning and a bunch of cottage cheese before sleep. I used to get up in the middle of the night for a protein shake... I used to not eat fat and fruits at all. I used to do 2-3 hours of low intensity cardio during diets. I used to go to failure in every single set. And I tried a million different supplements. All this as natural.
It didn't turn out too well... :D
Damn Geoff is starting to take off. Book might go up soon
Eventually, yea. Probably when I finish the second one.
I think there can be moral consequences of taking illegal drugs. For instance, where I live, everyone lives in fear of a cartel that makes its money by selling drugs. The people buying those drugs are the ones funding these cartels. I think that's an ethical issue that's worth considering.
Plus, with the fitness industry, I think we should strive to be good fitness role models. Just like it wouldn't be right to promote lifting + heroin, I don't think it makes sense for us to promote lifting + other illegal and unhealthy drugs, such as steroids. People might see us, imitate us, and wind up with health problems or legal troubles. When influencers are honest about their drug-fuelled lifestyles, I mean, yeah, it's honest… but they're also influencing people to follow in those footsteps, so it's potentially even more harmful, in a way.
Not that people don't have agency or that they aren't responsible for making their own decisions, but I still think it helps when role models and influencers are leading by example when they can.
And it's not that everyone is perfect or that making a mistake means that someone is bad. But I feel comfortable saying that taking steroids is a moral choice, especially if those steroids are illegal, and especially if that person is influencing others. Mind you, they might be wonderful people in many other ways.
“Do what the F… you wanna do”
The Hodge Twins
Brilliant video Geeeeeeooooffrey 👊🏾
By the way, you could try splitting long videos like this into 2-3 videos (ie part1, part 2, etc) maybe it could help make the videos more palatable for people who don’t want to spend a lot of time on a video in one sitting. Just an idea ;)
Also keep up the great work!
Thanks yea I've considered it but prefer keeping it all in one.
What year is this, 2010?
Keep these longer videos coming 💪
Great quality info, straight to the point!
Great list, especially important with how many enhanced influential people there are these days
Great one! Always good advice. I really hope newbies end up here first, so to speak.. :)
.
That stuff is gold my friend thank you for this video
This is a goldmine of info! Thank you!
I would also say that most newbies that hit tte gym for the first couple of years train with splits like enhanced lifters and it works for them. Because they are new to training ofc they get gains but they attribute it to bro splits and then spread that around. I got huge on starting strength but i don't recommend it since it was just a dreamer bulk (i was VERY low bodyfat)+ newb gains + more than 5 mins betweens sets in the end so i could keep progressing. but if it didnt stop working very fast i would not get educated on ex science. People with good response to training in bro splits ( they are still the most common i think) will grow and group with the roid monsters so most people say bro splits and pump. It is a HELL of journey through an endless stream of shit till you can finally program yourself out of plateaus. I would have liked to find this channel when i started out
I was looking at a study comparing old bodybuilder average life expectancy compared to modern bodybuilding life expectancy
In the 30s, 40s and 50s bodybuilding was the best sport for average life expectancy, the average for professionals was up in the high 60s and 70s, what was super super high for the time, but nowadays the life expectancy is in the 50s for professionals and bodybuilding is considered one of the worst sports for health.
I think what we can take of that is that more muscle mass correlates to a better life expectancy until a certain point (maximum natural point), where after that point life expectancy start to decrease with more muscle mass (after being enhanced)
Yes, there's a *reason* why naturals can't get that big. The body prevents it because the extra muscle is bad for survival, bad for health, bad for general fitness. Running at over 220lbs on an average frame is just tough, regardless of if it's muscle or fat.
@@GVS lol yeah i said ur post that u said running was start to get hard and u like 96kg right? And i would say u are in like 0.001% of lifters so that says a lot
Thanks for the video puts my workouts in some perspective and funny how I as well for trapped in training like an enhanced in my 20s. Loving the book and have enjoyed your advance beast mode workouts done it for 2 months and noticed some great gains. Keep posting this informative content!!!
Can you please do a video on cardio. Breaking it down and suggesting strategies on how to implement it to maximize gains in terms of strength and hypertrophy.
You nailed it! Amazing video!
Really good video, Geoff!
Congratulations for 66k subs
I like your video I have been taking trt doses for a while and I didn't know about the pump thing. I have been sick for the past like 4 weeks and my strength is pretty much all still there because the trt came in clutch. But it's a good thing you are telling people these things and it's not like you don't know. I'm sure you have talked to plenty of people who have used to some degree.
One of your best video's. Really
Great video Geoff!
Great video
Totally agree.. great video 👌🏻👌🏻
this video is gold
Captivating analogy & well put together well that's enough about me
I look forward to your next post
signed
A fat bloke who will watch youtube to get fit
Preach it brother! I get about 65% of my calories from fat. You really do need a decent amount of fat to feel normal. This low fat high carbohydrate stuff is really for people cutting or on gear.
65% is stupid hahah. Carbs are key for muscle growth
@@con999t This is clearly not true. Your liver makes all the glucose you need. You can build muscle no problem on a full zero carb carnivore diet. I've done it and many others have. You just need some insulin release for optimal muscle growth and protein does that as well. If you eat a whole food animal centric diet, 65% is very easy to hit. It's actually the ratio found in nature. Low fat, high carb diets are the odd ball diets. Not found in nature and can only be achieved with things like canned tuna in water, skinless chicken breast and whey protein powder. Because whole food animal protein comes with plenty of fat. Fat is far more crucial for overall health than carbohydrates. That why these lean guys see their test drop, the sex drive plument and sleep tank. You need fat on your body and you need to eat fat. There's essential fatty acids and essential amino acids. There is no essential carbohydrates. So there's your bif clue.
I like some carbohydrates, but 15-20% is plenty for optimal muscle protein synthesis and recovery.
One of the things I fucked up when I was a beginner was trying to do lots of cardio after weight lifting and it was literally impossible to maintain that for more than a month (I was doing like almost 2 hours daily) and because of that I quit doing cardio for years and recently I implemented just doing 40 minutes of walking and 0 problems at all I even look leaner than when I was doing more because I used to get urges for eating tons of food after a cardio session
Great video. Very informative.
It's not meant to be, but it's one of the best ads for taking steroids.
That's not a condemnation in any way, though.
Great video!
I’ve been lifting for over 10 years as a natty for most of it, not natty anymore. But bro splits always worked best for me with high volume and higher rep ranges. Some people like PPL more, but for me it just made me stronger not bigger, and I definitely lost arm size. Everyone’s different, natty or not!
Outstanding information
Some of these explain The Rock's behaviour in a way that's almost scary, especially the one where you mention steroid users eating 6-8 meals, as well as the reduced need for sleep.
Well yeh but tbf I don’t think anybody is believing lean 250lbs guys in their 50’s are anything other than juiced to the gills anyway.
@@HkFinn83 i bet lots of casuals probably see him working out talking about dedication and chicken and broccoli and they buy it hook line and sinker lol
good one gvs
I think this is interesting because I’ve noticed most of my results in muscle development have been when I do 4-5 sets high volume 15-20 rep range. I am natural and also only work out 4-5 times a week now. When I was doing a 3 on 1 off PPL split I noticed phenomenal growth for about two months and then it dropped off, though this could also be because of stress due to the job I had at the time.
I think it’s good to warm up with a pump exercise and then really beat your muscles up to failure, my last set of a work out is always a drop set (I prefer over doing partial reps because I have very weak joints and don’t really want to risk injury).
I think as a natural you just want to emphasize muscle damage and progressive overload, and only work out muscles when fully recovered (typically I do one day on one day off back/chest then legs then arms/shoulders) but then throw in an extra day or two per week for my genetic weak points (typically shoulders, glutes, and calves) though I’m starting to prioritize flexibility and mobility so 6 days a week just isn’t working for me.
Geoff, since April 2021 I have been following a "pump" type work out plan. High reps to failure, 3-4 sets. 7 to 11 exercises per muscle group. I have seen nice gains. I am not a beginner, I lifted weights in my late 20s(now in my mid 50s). It is November now, and I went from looking fat to looking like a guy that lifts. I never did steroids in the past and not using an PEPs now.
Mike
also do a vid on differences between powerlifting strength training and hypertrophy training, i think people mix up training specifies of the two, there are clear differences people have to understand
I did. :)
The pump does matter even for naturals. Before I hopped on Anavar (I use it for 8wk cycles maybe twice a year and go natural for the rest of it), I only did powerlifting style workouts with some bodybuilding style short rest period workouts. Even then, the most I’d do is 6 reps per set but really focus on mind muscle connection. I got great results from that, but I only really started blowing up from chasing the pump whilst still keeping half my workouts with heavy weights. After I started using Anavar, it exaggerated my gains further even though I was using it on a cut.
The pump does matter but I agree with everything else- especially about progressive overload.
Lol, I am so early, that even Fitlabb hasnt made a comment yet
Fitlabb🤣🤣🤣
That guy's everywhere
@@brane4859 Yeah :D Unfortunately he will never become a meme and spawn dozen of different accounts like MPMD and NH did.
Good day. Since I found your channel you've become my favorite fitness RUclipsr. Love the integrity, the fact you're natural, the whole package. However, I am skeptical of this theory that there is a big difference between how naturals and druggies should train. I haven't seen any evidence of this. I think drugs help with any style of lifting. There are plenty of druggie powerlifters that train heavy virtually all the time. I think you might be conflating how a lot of top bodybuilders train with drugs making that training better. I think it's more that they are so strong that training heavy has become too much of an injury risk. Yes, part of the reason their strength has become dangerous is the drugs, but that is different from what you're saying. They may have actually gotten that big from heavy compounds, but now they get injured because training heavy requires too much weight. On the flip side, the science seems to show that anything from 5 to 30 reps is roughly equal for hypertrophy, so there's no reason why a natural couldn't build muscle with high reps. One danger of what you're espousing is a natural listening to you may think they have to train heavy regardless of injury risk or joint health. For example, I train triceps with high reps because low reps are a no go for my elbows. A young kid watching you may falsely believe he has to train heavy despite the pain because he's natty.
On the cardio point. People like Douchette recommend a ton of cardio. He himself bikes very intensely all the time. Makes me think he's on more than just HRT.
Real question I struggle with, G, if you can help me out.
I work night shift and sleep in "shifts" usually 3-5 hours x2 a day. Sometimes I don't get my full 8 hours.
If I know that I'm gonna have a few days of rough/limited sleep (1-3 days), should I skip a workout and spend the time recovering?
I ask bc this may limit my gym sessions to 3-4 days a week.
try skipping and see if you're still progressing after a month.
18:03 had to rewind what you said because that THICCCCC peach in the corner distracted me
7:55 so true. You will even feel Anavar pre-workout since the stuff is in and out of your system in a day
I liked and commented for your alga rhythm
I want that outtake from 18:28 haha
On #13 - Carbohydrates - the informational text says (1) carbs can help naturals by blunting cortisol release and (2) you take 150gm+ "around" workouts:
1. Do you have a video about this already?
2. Is there a suggested range based on body weight, like with protein?
3. Is this a detail meant more for advanced lifters, or a good general rule for all lifters?
4. "Around workouts" is pre, intra, post, or doesn't matter much?
5. Just noting that 150g = 600 calories! That would a lot for me.
1. No but I might do one.
2. No I don't choose 150g specifically, it's just 1L skim milk and 1.25L orange juice
3. Probably more for advanced.
4. pre and intra is better
5. scale it down. I'm bulking and on probably close to 3500-4000 calories so it's just a liquid meal.
@@GVS thanks for the answers!
Awesome topic Geoffrey! One thought though:
Not sure if this is how it was meant, but couldn’t a natural still benefit from 5 protein “feedings” a day? I know you said 3-4 which is probably fine, but is there not a benefit to just hitting 5 if you can? Love your videos man!
Maybe a small benefit but I really think that if you compared the gains over the long term of 4 vs 5 feedings the difference would be very minor if even measureable. Differences of 2 vs 3 might show up but 4 vs 5 isn't worth worrying about much.
tl;dr: Naturals have been successful on both higher and lower frequencies, but I'm beginning to think higher frequencies have a lower margin of error and most casual lifters are better off with lower frequencies, "optimal" or not.
I'm not normally one to comment on fitness RUclips, but this video touches on something I'm in the middle of changing my mind on. I decided to skip the long personal anecdote here to keep the focus on the logic rather than my anecdotal experience. I'll just say I had success on a lower frequency, each-movement-pattern-once-per-week, stagnated on higher frequency, and now I'm going back to the lower frequency approach.
On one hand, people say the advantage of steroids is that you recover faster so you can train harder and more often.
On the other hand, people say the disadvantage of being natural is that you recover slower, so...you have to train harder and more often?
This advice seems to work better if I think about training first, recovery second:
Train hard enough you are sure you got a stimulus. Train again when you're sure you're recovered. Let frequency fall where it may, whether you are natural or enhanced. Low frequency might undershoot optimal by having lower weekly volume or frequency but higher frequency can undershoot due to lower intensity and volume (harder to push on Monday know you have to do it again Thursday), *and* it can overshoot optimal by grinding you down trying to keep to an arbitrary schedule with low-to-no margin of error in recovery days.
Many people may well end up lifting with higher frequency as they find they recover well enough to go hard more than once per week, but that decision is based on their own observable performance and perception of recovery. Starting high frequency based on the idea of keeping unobservable rates of muscle protein synthesis high encourages people to chase theoretical, population-based-averages and ignore how they are actually performing and feeling, which is the only thing that matters on the individual level.
I have moved away from Higher frequency as well - what is your current frequency - im doing PPLPPL so 2x a week
@@cv0669 4 days: Squat, Bench, Deadlift, Overhead Press. Heavy top sets, lots of backoff sets, minimal accessories. Basically, keep doing main lift sets until I'm tired of it (burn, pump, and/or fatigue set in), not based on a fixed number, safe in the knowledge that 1) I'm not doing much after that lift, and 2) I have a week to recover. If I have more than a main lift & 1 accessory for a muscle group on my schedule, I run into this two-sided coin of not having enough time/sets to really get into each lift even if I wanted to, but I also don't want to because I have to save energy for all the other lifts I have to do in that workout...worst of both worlds!
I do horizontal *and* vertical pulling on both upper body days though, because I think pulls just can't be worked as hard as pushes due to the different strength curves.
Interesting as I have had a similar experience..as a natural starting on a bro split years ago I was influenced by the advice on higher training frequencies to maximise ‘protein synthesis’. As an intermediate lifter at 34 with an un physically demanding job I had plateaued on all my lifts and decided to Commit to a 2 year experiment with equated volume and higher frequencies (2 day split 3 times a week with sunday as a rest day - therefore each muscle troupe worked 3 times a week) and noted the following in order:
1. Initially strength increased dramatically on all lifts I assume due to neutral adaptations practicing each lift more frequently
2. Muscle size increased and body fat decreased - this happened quickly but it was deceptive as the higher training frequency caused a constant pump which felt good and looked good but I don’t believe was actually tissue growth and the higher training frequency required I work multiple muscle groups in one day simple increasing my calorie burn.
3. As time went on and I gained strength I could not push for progressive overload in lower rep ranges as frequently and eventually My primary rep range has shifted from 6-12 reps to 12-20. This was due to 2 factors, firstly exhaustion I.e simply not having the capacity and aggression to drive heavier weights with intensity and secondly niggling joint pain and tendinitis I started getting in my elbow.
4. Eventually I started getting brain fog and my sleep quality deteriorated, I felt exhausted most of the time and began to dread working out every day, although I was getting plenty of food in an effort to stop the over training effects I ate more, this didn’t help as there’s only so much nutrient partitioning you can do as a natural so instead I started putting on body fat…by this point my strength had stalled in all rep ranges I was exhausted and my joints hurt, I had to take 2 full weeks off to recover.
High training frequencies work well on paper and initially in the gym BUT (assuming progressive overload is the key to size in a natural lifter ) are unsustainable in the long run due to factors not taken into account in the many studies describing increased frequency of protein synthesis for natural lifters as the only way to train. These days I train with an A B A/ B A B split training only three days a week but hitting each muscle every 4-5 days. The joint pain has cleared up and the recovery days between workouts allows me to really push hard on the days I train.
Moral of the story in my experience training frequency is important but only part of the picture…in the long run over recovery is better than under recovery
Sorry in advance if my comment ends up turning into a novel. I noticed the same thing with my own programming and your comment caught my interest.
You are definitely correct that higher frequencies have a lower margin for error, especially if you're performing the exact same movements multiple times per week. And the reasoning for this has to do with the recovery curves of the nervous system. Muscles recover extremely fast (like 1-2 days) but recruiting those muscles is limited by the state of the nervous system. Anytime you have an effortful lifting session the movements you used probably will be in a recovery curve for around a week before you can put forth the same effort and repeat the performance (assuming you're interested in hypertrophy and you're getting close to failure on your sets and using the same movements). So while it most definitely is beneficial to hit muscles multiple times a week you have to know how to program that which comes down to movement selection.
So yeah, I think it makes total sense that you had success only performing movements once per week, especially if you had previously been performing movements multiple times per week. Past the beginner stage, anytime you perform the exact same movement multiple times a week you have to do a few things to ensure you won't stagnate with the movement pattern:
1. Vary the sets/reps/weight you perform each session.
2. Vary the effort used each session.
3. Vary the stance/tempo.
However, in my experience from someone more interested in hypertrophy, even when employing these things I still find myself better off if I just pick a different but similar movement pattern that still hits the prime movers. So incline over flat benching, front squat over back squat, etc. You want enough of a difference to prevent staleness but similar enough to where you still have carryover. By changing the movement you're still able to stress the muscles hard because your effort is high, which is ideal if you're mainly interested in hypertrophy. Varying up the sets/reps/weight/effort/stance/tempo are things you would do if you were a powerlifter and more interested in increasing strength for a particular movement.
I actually still find it's easier to make strength progress doing most movements once per week, especially on accessory lifts. Basically just build up to one really hard set, doing 3-4 sets total and my performance increases in some way almost every week. When I hit the same movement multiple times a week it improves initially for a short period but then I stagnate shortly after.
@@cv0669 Hitting PPL 6 times a week but saying you moved away from higher frequency cracks me up. I know you probably mean you moved away from hitting the same movement patterns with high frequency but still. PPL 6 times is a pretty terrible split. Not that it's terrible for everyone, it's just not a split I would recommend the majority of people follow.
I have a little question about cardio. I cycle daily as a form of transport, never get out of breath though, would this count as light cardio do you think?
You… your a butt nugget ☹️ jk, solid shit as always brother 👌🏻⭐️
thanks for your honest advise
„You gotta want it! LIFT the dream!“
Am I still natural if I focus and meditate upon my pituitary glands and have them secrete more GH and my testes to produce more testosterone and other androgens?
lol...yes.
bruh
Very good video. There is a lot of aweful fitness influencers and drug abusers such as ryan humiston giving terrible advice on how to train if you are natural. Telling bs like you need to go for the pump bro splits. Telling that progressive overload is dumb etc
I just wanna say this-
Almost all too bodybuilders nowadays have ditched the pump/volume training. Iain, nick walker, James hollongshead, Hunter labrada - all these guys do two working sets to abs beyond failure and use progressive overload. Im on gear and I try like this. Btw, still love your channel
Things are definitely changing, yes. DC training has always been popular in that community and the top guys pretty much all lift heavy, with many not doing huge volume. Just observing general trends.
Great video! Back in the 80s we all lapped up the BS from Weider in Muscle and Fitness with their ridiculous programmes for juiced pros. What a frickin joke. Years of wasted time. 😳
For the sleep part, listen to me carefully. If you really want to sleep properly at all time, do not, I repeat, do NOT have kids. Fucking hell.
It gets better bro. Hang in there!
@point 8, is it really that the connective tissue isn’t catching up? Or do you think perhaps that at large doses a bigger factor is AI and SERM usage?
Yeah, utilizing a lot of the specific enhanced-styles of training definitely set me back as a young man…😣
Hey Geoffrey btw have you ever tried taking pre-workout (supplement)?
I don't personally take them.
Yes, I use Sean Nalewanyj's RealScienceAthletics one, occasionally. Definitely works.
You got sauce, we ain't bros
Although, there are plenty and almost too many examples of nattys who are big and almost seem to thrive on lower volumes/frequency’s Jeff Alberts, Ben Howard, Matt Ogus even got big on a 4 day 5/3/1, he’s not a bber but Greg O as well, Etc. And even enhanced guys got arguably huger (if that’s a word lol) on lower volume higher intensity; Mike Mentzer, Dorian Yates, Arthur Jones and these are the guys who changed the game with their physique. When Yates came out he showed there’s a new baseline for size and Mentzer was the first bber EVER to get a perfect score. Also don’t loose sight of the end goal, this is a marathon not a sprint, don’t hyper focus on optimization. It means absolutely nothing if you don’t love your training cause you’ll eventually quit because of the resentment or find more excuses not to go, as well it’s been well documented workouts going over 1 hour is more catabolic then anabolic because the duration the body’s under stress. And finally to this point don’t forget it takes 2-3x as long for joints and connective tissue to recover and repair. The body is very multifaceted.
Just progress, train intensely and fall in love with it…
PED rich blood - That was hilarious 🤣🤣
So, I'm probably not the only one, but I'm confused as to what is actually effective for the natural lifter. For instance, if you do 3-4 sets for biceps, do you take each rep to failure, or just the last set ? Or if you go to failure, do you even bother with multiple sets ? It's just confusing at this point, because I have been working out for a while now (different approaches) and don't really see many results other than getting a bit stronger. Hypertrophy though, meh.
how long you've been working out for?
@@spiritual_fitness Well, it been an off and on thing throughout the years, but this most recent period has been about...half a year now maybe. I mean, I've realized now that you can't listen to anyone whose physique is possibly to roids (which cancels just about all the "greats"). Therefore you find yourself bouncing back and forth between conflicting information, and it just confuses you as to what REALLY works. Now, I will say that since I've started going close to failure/to failure I have started feeling a difference, and slightly visibly noticed a difference, but I've had this happen before, then nothing. I just want to make sure I'm getting the hypertrophy workout more so than strength, endurance, etc, which brings me back to my original question -- what is the correct way to accomplish this ? LOL
@@whatwouldlewdo tbh, your problem sounds like very tailored towards you.
You can do two things
1)continue experimenting, as it's your own body and you will know best by different approaches.
2)Hire a coach that'll be costly ngl
and there's third option listen to my thoughts, I'm very much novice lifter so take that with a grain of salt.
First things measurements are necessary, inches on arms with current body weight with bodyfat if you can calculate. idk if you are keeping this so I added it.
Visual pics which i think you're doing but i still added.
these two are needed apart from training log.
lets tackle your question,
Let me take a bicep movement I'm currently doing.
Ez bar Preacher Curl (6-12), i know weird rep range.
I added this movement on 27th Jul 2023, I was 78.88kgs Bodyweight, 27.6% bodyfat with right arm 14.1 inches & left arm 13.9 inches
i did that day, 2 main sets 1 extra with lower weight, because 3rd set i cannot do within the rep range with same weight unless i increase rest time.
1st set: 8 x 10kgs rir 1-2
2nd set: 6 x 10kgs rir 0
3rd set : 9 x 5kgs rir 1-2
On 19th Aug, after 2 weeks, I was 75.99kgs bodyweight close to 24.9% bodyfat, with right arm 13.9inches & left arm 13.7 inches.
on that day I added the third set with my working weight, because I felt I could add another set with same weight and rep range.
1st set: 10 x 10kgs rir 1
2nd set: 7 x 10kgs rir 1
3rd set: 6 x 10kgs rir 0
now, I gained some reps and 1 more set which is volume if I just look at training log, but after seeing measurements, I lost inches on arm but also lost bodyfat & weight, so i know what I gained was muscle. Now it could be other bicep exercises helped yes, but i only do strict EZ-bar Curl and Dumbell Spyder curl so not many exercise selection.
also rest times comes into play, i always superset preacher curl with 3sets of cable Pushdown so rest may vary which causes dips in performance for both lifts.
so fast forward to last preacher curl session, 11th sep 2023, I'm 73.5kgs other measurements I've yet to do, body fat is definitely down. but don't know about arm measurements.
i did
1st set : 7 x 15kgs rir 0
2nd set : 5 x 15kgs rir 0
as you can see, I've gained some strength and reduced my sets to two because i failed the 2nd set to fall within rep range so I ended the session there, otherwise i could have added another set by lowering the weight but didn't felt necessary because both were very intense set.
so to answer your question your sets will increase or decrease depending upon your rep range & rest times. but this is only one factor, bodyweight, bodyfat%, pics, inches on arms will also help determine muscle gain.
One more thing, if even above is you're doing but you don't see visual or inches on arms it's time to do some proper exercise selection because this is definitely possible the exercise you're doing is not targeting the muscle you're trying to hit, but recruiting other muscles like forearms, shoulders which happens to me aswell.
I'm no expert but hope this helps 👍
By no means are they just the icing on the cake. But the size gains you’ll get on PEDs are blown out of proportions. The size I believe still takes time. Most people just put on a lot of fat and water. What you will get from my experience is.
100% for sure is strength increase. Talking about repping your 1rm in a matter of months. And you get a different look on them.