Josh Pate On Michigan NCAA Investigation - Friday Update (Late Kick Cut)
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- Опубликовано: 1 окт 2024
- Michigan and Jim Harbaugh are caught up in another NCAA investigation pertaining to alleged sign-stealing. On Late Kick Live Ep 447 Josh Pate reacted to the latest reports about the NCAA looking into the matter along with how he thinks this could impact a Michigan run to the College Football Playoff. How much trouble could Jim Harbaugh's program be in? Let us know what you think in the comments below and be sure to SUBSCRIBE to the channel and CLICK THE BELL for notifications as we bring you multiple live shows per week!
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Why do you keep bringing up how much the guy makes? That's completely irrelevant and you know what happens when you make assumptions, right? Have you ever thought, maybe he's got rich parents? Maybe he has another job? Investments? Maybe he gets a lot of people asking for tickets and he likes hooking people up. Drawing a unfounded conclusion for the purpose of demonizing and affecting public opinion seems like slander to me.
@@MoneyIsSilver I didn’t draw any conclusions at all. I’m asking where a guy with his salary got the funding. If you have evidence his parents paid for it, show me. - JP
@@JoshPateCFB Just like you did put Michigan on upset alert (for which you promised to pay me if I showed you proof you did), you also made the assumption that you don't think a guy making $55,000 a year can buy that many tickets. Its a damaging comment to make because you have no idea what resources he has or anything about him, and you're making an implication and pushing the idea that his actions are in some way punishable.
@@JoshPateCFB How about this: Until you have some real evidence that he paid for tickets for PAID, EMPLOYED SCOUTS to film at games, and then received that footage. Something that isn't hearsay, but actual evidence, why not just let the investigation happen and not use unfounded accusations to sway public opinion on the matter.
@@MoneyIsSilver I didn’t attempt to sway anything, and didn’t offer you any $ to prove I put someone on upset alert. I asked where $ came from, which is the most logical approach one can take. I do a national CFB show and this is the biggest CFB story in the nation. I’m going to talk about it. - JP
Josh pate should teach a master class on talking and absolutely riding the middle of the road almost like a member of congress 😂😂😂
Lol, true.
you must be a fuckeye fan
I can’t wait until these clowns and their cheater coach stroll into Happy Valley for that whiteout.
RU kidding?
Good times🎉
That's what makes him good he is nit flat out taking sides.
i like pate but he's the epitome of a fence-riding centrist lol
Other coaches not publicly criticizing Michigan's behavior and Coach Harbaugh's management doesn't mean much of anything beyond professional courtesy. It's _very_ rare for coaches to call out other coaches directly (so rare that it makes news when it happens), and the assumption that they don't do it because every coach is doing the same thing is a huge leap.
It’s only illegal if you get caught. He got caught and will be made an example.
Gotta love putting the onus on coaches not cheating. UM has done this every step of the way. Their (not all UM) behavior resembles The Narcissist’s Prayer to a tee.
It doesn’t mean they’re breaking the exact same rule or doing anything this bad but there isn’t a single coach that wants their name brought into an NCAA investigation.
Ohio St. Quality control coach...Brent Zdebski..stay tuned....AND Coach Ruhle from Nebraska said everyone tries to steal signs...all these holier than thou hypocrites 🙄 😑
You mean kind of like cheating, no class Harbaugh popping off against Day after 100 losses in a row to OSU?
MY SCHOOL (ND) had to vacate 21 wins and suspend our QB the entire 2013 season because he cheated on a test. I EXPECT at least as severe a penalty (vacate wins). And frankly think they should be ineligible for this year’s playoff.
As a Michigan alum, I support that. As long as we can finish out the season and beat Penn State and osu
Cope. Still bitter over having 10 men on the field against OSU and gifting then the win
You people just hate that Michigan even have a chance to win the Natty! And so you blow the story a hundred times more than what it really is!
@@derekbanks7377they don’t have a chance though
@@derekbanks7377The program set aside 15k for tickets and hotels so they could go steal signals. It's a big deal. They should have a playoff ban this year.
Same roster. Same talent level. Same mediocre team goes to world beaters over night. Suddenly second half killing the spread unlike no other team. This needs to be more than a slap on the wrist
Michigan has been 10-2 average under Harbaugh, lol, settle down. This makes no sense as they haven't won a bowl game under him either. So.....maybe wait until actual facts and statements are released.
@bk6555 The bad look is that he was 2-4 in 2020 with a bad loss to a 2-5 Michigan St and a bad triple overtime win against a 3-6 Rutgers team and then all of a sudden he takes the team to 13-1 in 2021 as a strong 2nd half team. Couple that with the facts he has never turned a team around that fast in his life and he replaced DC Don Brown with 1st time ever defensive coordinator MacDonald and also replaced 6 of their 10 assistants. So they install the defensive system of a 1st time ever defensive coordinator and are one of the best defensive teams in 2021, especiallyin the 2nd half of games. Not likely without a lot of illegal help.
@@raptor7869 Nobody counts Covid year, just stop it. I can bring up many other team's wacked record from Covid as well. Some schools were required by the state to not play, other schools had the option. That entire year was insane and unconsistent across all of college and pro sports regarding how to even look at the wins and losses objectively.
@bk6555 No, the only people who don't count that year are Michigan fans because Michigan sucked really bad that year and they cant handle that fact. I'm sure Alabama fans would argue with you as well since they won the national championship that year.
@@raptor7869 Cool, Alabama can have their championship. Good job missing my point though. But for you to pretend that the Covid year means nothing? Yeah, 🤡 take. Michigan wasn't the only team to not play a significant portion of their regular season. They were consistently a 10-2 or 11-1 team before a year in which the entire sports world deemed 2020 a huge fluke for all sports.
I love the “everyone is doing it” excuse. Not only is it a false statement but they aren’t even attempting to deny the allegations.
Like the Lance Armstrong apologists.
@@johndef5075Fr, Michigan needs to suck it up. You cheated, did a terrible job at hiding it, and got caught. Accept the consequences and quit pointing fingers at everyone else.
So all of the players and coaches around the league and not in league anymore...you gonna discredit them and say they are all cheaters too? According to the accusations made, it still doesn't violate any bylaws.
Because they need to investigate other programs before pointing fingers!
@@bk6555please read the bylaws, section 11.6 specifically states “Off-campus, in person scouting of future opponents (in the same season) is prohibited.” There are two exceptions to this bylaw but neither of these were met. They are breaking the rule as it is written.
Doesn't matter who or how many do it. It matters that they got caught. It matters that they went way above the allowable scouting practices. No not every team goes to this extent.
Caught doing what? Do you realize that there hasn't even been a formal accusation yet? The rule applies to PAID SCOUTS filming, not random people. Unless they can prove these people filming from the stands were paid employees of the University, this is all just garbage media spin.
@@MoneyIsSilverI've been wondering the same thing. I know paid 'employees' cannot advance scout in the same year, but it doesn't mean that unpaid people can't record plays, right? Not doubting it didn't happen but did Michigan find the loophole in the rule?
Until there are charges, yes it is accusations. I can say this, the FBI didn’t knock on Michigan’s door just because of a hamburger. Also, if in fact Michigan staffers helped an SEC team to give Michigan an advantage to advance into the CFP if in fact they lost to OSU… that will be the nail in the coffin. We all can agree that was not done for free.
@@louofm1 the accusation is Connor sent interns that are with the program. That’s illegal, if in fact is true. That at this point is the least of the worries. Now the accusation of a SEC team and Michigan working together to sabotage a CFP contenders season, that will be the dagger.
@@Stos28You do realise that if FBI is involved, an actual crime occurred, right? And in this instance, it is most definitely the theft of private property/data and corporate espionage. Universities actually have lawyers that specialize in that, and this is why we truly haven't heard any facts yet, all just ridiculous cyclic reporting.
Okay, look at the snapshot of the MI OSU game on here....they get the sign, the whole MI team is pointing up....they all know, they all did. Not hard for me to have a verdict here
So slimy that the players were actively in on it.
I loathe UM even more. And Ann Arbors a ______. Hint: ( rhymes with more)😂
Shoutout from Cbus!
😂
Record speed for an investigation because it is a record violation. Cheating on papers like at North Carolina to me, is actually small potatoes. Johnny Manziel and Todd Gurley making money signing autographs didn't change the outcome of a game. This did.
Cheating on papers so that players are eligible doesn't have an effect on a game? Really...
Your mom did too
@@TommyK030 Desmond Howard is illiterate and struggled to read the teleprompter. And he’s a college graduate of Michigan. You don’t have a leg to stand on if you’re going to defend them.
@@nickma71let your true colors show. You only care because it's a team you don't like lol
@@nickma71Wait, Desmond can read? You’d never know it.
They've done this for 2 years and now the last 2 years Michigan is going to the playoffs. I think it is a bigger deal than you think.
Takes the fun out of watching games if one team has an ace up their sleeve and nobody cares, then why even watch it.
then why not just call the opposing team on the cellphone and tell them your next play ?
And yet coaches have been warned but other coaches and staff. But theses nameless coaches and staff remain nameless. JP isn't the only one who has brought this point up.
Um, then what are you going to say when they went out on the rest of their schedule now that they don’t know everyone signs? What if they still win? Is it only because of the signs?
@jasonmcbride6458 Right. You don't think PSU and OSU will use huddles or a different way to get plays in? Well, OSU may, and then IF they lose, they can blame the sign stealers.
If you think the last 3 years' success is because of sign stealing, then anybody who knows football will tell you that you don't know anything about football.
Michigan's recent success is quite simply because (1) vastly improved team culture since the Covid year, recruiting players of higher character and getting rid of the cancers; (2) recruiting high level players athletically who fit and buy into the system and who are unselfish; (3) having a number of the best young assistants in America; (4) having one of the best strength and conditioning coaches and programs in America; (5) having created a team where the players truly love each other, which does not happen often; (6) stellar quarterback play, something that had been missing for a number of years.
Michigan has been winning because the team has been really, really good. It's no more complicated than that and I am not even much of a fan of Jim Harbaugh, but he is behind the positive culture that everyone who follows the program can see has been unlike anything we had seen for a long, long time.
Whenever a Weasel and a Cheetah breed you get a Wolverine.
lololololololol
It affects betting lines, it affects coaches jobs who had to coach against this, it affects the kids who had to play against them
When Betting is affected then Gambling and TV partners get involved, people have no idea how big this is getting.
Boston College was in huge trouble for shaving points and this falls under that also, changing the lines with Vegas due to knowing the signs weeks in advance is a huge advantage
Shane Beamer got a $4mil/year raise thanks to Harbaugh’s illegal scouting data being shared with them for the TN game lmfao
Those poor gamblers. How ever will they survive?
Boston College? There are 5 guys on a basketball team, 22 on a football. The players need to be involved to fix a game or shave points, not coaches. What a stupid comment
It turns out the only side they didn’t “scout” was TCU who beat them in the playoff 😂
They actually did. TCU was told by many Big Ten coaches about Michigan’s sign stealing. There is a photo of Stallion with the TCU signs on the sidelines from the game last year.
@@pcon36 this dude believes everything he reads rofl
BREAKING NEWS!!!!! NEW SCANDAL INFO!!!!!!MICHIGAN HAD CAMERAS AT OSU HOMES!!!!!!!! GOT GAME SIGNS AND PICS OF COACHES BEDROOMS!!!!!THEY GOT MORE THAN JUST SIGNS!!!!! NO ONE KNEW SO MANY OSU COACHES WERE ACTUALLY GAY!!!!!!! TEAM DOWN SOUTH HAS A WHOLE NEW MEANING!!!!! DUDES IN DRAG!!!!GOING UP THE OLD DIRT ROAD!!!!SCARLET AND GAY!!!!! WHO KNEW!?!?!? IT'S MORE THAN JUST A RABBIT HOLE AFTER ALL!!!! A LOT SMELLIER THAN ANY OTHER HOLE!!! AND A LOT MORE OF THEM!!!!!
@@pcon36and yet they only won by 6 lol
and they were supposed to lose lmao@@ericwatson3490
It’s serious enough to cost opponents victories, which changes won/loss records, which potentially costs the opponent a better Bowl Game position, which can cost them millions of dollars. And remember, when it all comes down to it it’s about National Championships and a whole lot of money.
In the business world this is cause for criminal investigation or lawsuits if your illegal tactics costs my business millions of dollars.
Billions of dollars. Not millions.
After what happened to Tressel and Pryor just for trading trophies for tattoos
I'm enjoying every second of this....lol
Ohio State is a corrupt program. You have had coach after coach leave because of it.
Scared to play Michigan this year? Just letting you know that “the game” will still be played, good luck
@@alexharris9129Nope. Why should anyone be afraid to play? Why? It's the cheating that's a concern. And the skunk weasels got caught cheating.
ya bet yer sweet azz it's gonna get played. Buckeyes will be coming up to Ann Arbor and take retribution for all of college football. It's gonna be glorious. @@alexharris9129
@@alexharris9129 3 and 17 in the last 20 years. Nobody is afraid of Michigan dude.
Jim Harbaugh owes CJ Stroud a Heisman Trophy
naw the right person got it. caleb williams played lights out last year. honestly it should have been max duggin he put tcu on his back last year and played as a Heisman winner and it shows this year with how bad they are with out max. stroud only was good because of stover, Harrison, egabuka, and najigba. all first round wide receivers. very hard to not be a good qb with those weapons.
@@paranormalsnow8030he was a finalist in 2021, too.
@@paranormalsnow8030Stroud was good because he's an extremely talented QB.. yeah he was throwing to a loaded WR room, but his accuracy and ball placement has always been elite.. look at what he's doing in Houston with lesser WR talent..
CJ should have helped out in the trenches where OSU was really beat
Cry about it
Dude, they cheated in a way that would make the mafia blush. They're getting what they deserve.
actually, it's fallen under points shaving just like Boston College did. FBI is involved on a guy they fired but did some shady computer stuff
So they killed people to cheat? 😂 This is how you know most people are too emotional and are allowing themselves to be controlled by hearsay and cyclic reporting (regurgitating other news story, putting their own spin on it, the other places do it, readers then believe that the more it is retold, then it must be true). You guys need to chill.
10 year bowl ban and sent to mountain west
It’s interesting TCU was able to take advantage of the tip off due to them having enough time to change up
OSU changed up as well.
@jamietwigg4845 they went to 8 ohio state games this year . They would just steal them over and over. Tcu is in another conference so it was easier for them because michigan didn't have as much time to scout. Hence the beat down
@@GreatLakes2551 OSU changed the signs for last years game, that is FACT that Day said himself.
Won't be any excuses for OSU or PSU this season.
3rd straight beatdown coming.
That will knock OSU out of the playoffs for 2 of the last 3 seasons, won't be any backing in this year lol
It doesn't matter if an opponent changes their signs, which is a huge pain in the ass for offense, if Michigan was secretly recording their sidelines because they can eventually figure out the new signs by the 2nd Half.
@@jamietwigg4845OSU was aware of the sign stealing & made some changes to combat the problem. OSU was not aware that UM had effectively built a key that could allow their staff to quickly decode - that is, predict - their play calls with high level accuracy. Ohio St had one week to try to make changes, while TCU had weeks.
Regardless, as will be revealed, UM cheated to gain unfair advantage.
Worst Year 2-4 COVID year when they couldn't send people to scout games.
and them not knowing TCU's plays they looked like crap, and Ohio State is 1 field away from beating Georgia, and we at home look terrible vs Michigan and every play they happen to be in the perfect spot vs Garrett wilson, Chris Olave, Marvin Harrison and CJ Stroud, all elite ?
@@roccospinelli5642So any time that a team supposedly has more superior talent than the other team, then they should ALWAYS win? Wut? You are assuming because OSU lost, Michigan cheated. That's it, case closed. Ok 😂
@@bk6555Well, missed'again did cheat, and the scandal is getting worse everyday. Cope skunk weasel cope.
Let’s not forget they worked with the gamecocks to knock out Tenn and Clemson… at what point does that call in for an immediate ban?
Where did you hear this?
That's a huge deal if true
they have the files or hard drive and texts@@terrencewalker4880
@@terrencewalker4880 it’s reported that Michigan staffers helped an SEC team … the only team it could have been is the gamecocks because they were a terrible team that somehow beat Tenn and Clemson. Whomever within Michigan was at Tenn and Clemson last year. It’s just a matter of time at this point. Michigan is utilizing its 90 days to respond and will wait till day 89 which is well after the CFP.
@@Stos28 These are just rumors at this point. However, it is worth noting that the SC's head coach was fined $25,000 while at Georgia for accepting leaked game plan information. So is it possible, yes. Has it been proven with evidence? Not at all, to this point.
If they cheat on this ,they probably are cheating on other stuff stuff
Plausible deniability is out the window. This was full blown cheating. Take everything away.
ok fuckeye - you're about to be 0-3
@@bromosapien4972I would hope Michigan could beat osu knowing all their signals
@@bromosapien4972the 10 years before that didn't happen? Lmfao 🤡
@@bromosapien4972 let them talk. Okay. ..Guilty...we surrender and will go first. Then be consistent and look at EVERYONE ELSE.
Ohio state crybaby 😂😂😂😂😂 all yall are
The Astro scandal was a known thing around the league before any reports ever came out… teams can tell if something weird is going on
There are two stories here. Of course there is the sign stealing. But then the other story is the total indignation by Michigan fans and players. They are going nuts and embarrassing themselves in the process.
So are the non Michigan fans 😂 It's all hilarious how ridiculous everyone is being before proof and evidence or even a formal statement has been issued by anyone.
A masterclass in shamelessness and hypocrisy from UM and Harbaugh supporters. Today’s talking point remains, “there’s no proof Harbaugh knew,” which I just find to be an absurd stance to take. He is the CEO of the program-his not knowing about something this extensive would be in-and-of-itself fireable (especially if his son Jay is made to be the fall guy)!
@@bk6555cope and seethe
@@bk6555OK Walmart Wolverine
Honestly, the non Michigan fans who clearly have never played a sport their entire lives are the ones embarrassing themselves
If the Playoff committee allows Michigan into the playoffs then the cheating topic would be a huge distraction from the games and the teams involved in the playoffs. It would be annoying, tiresome, and unfair. Everybody knows about sign stealing and as a result, many teams already have a routine to minimize the effect, but, it seems that Michigan does not approach sign stealing as the rest of the league does. Michigan has put money into it and has created a very well planned and organized sign stealing program. Michigan has taken sign stealing to a new level. They should be penalized. I really don't know what that penalty should be, but I do know that Michigan should be barred from the playoffs this season. I think the committee will agree.
The CFP Committee has ZERO say in matters like this. Nothing has been revealed or shown yet, it's all speculation and rumors.
Post season bans aren’t given out for what the NCAA considers to be minor, level 3 violations.
@@paulmayer8654This isn't level 3 skunk weasel, this is getting bigger everyday. Missed'again is toast.
It also might have been known and not widely reported bc they thought it was just that someone was very good at stealing signs from the sideline. Once they realized they were advanced scouting and recording games, that’s when it became a big deal.
As a college football fan of a team not named Michigan it is my duty to contribute to the frenzy in the hope to hinder Michigan.
Lemme guess ur a Ohio state fan
@@generallimbert not even a BIG 10 fan
@@generallimbertCope skunk weasel cope.
Look what happened to Ohio State over tattoos and gold pants
@@Kkampsenior Yeah OSU had to vacate the entire season if I remember correctly.
They should have to vacate their wins the past 2 years along with their titles.
You have to punish the institution also. Scholarship reductions.Bowl Bans for every year they did this. 3 year Bowl bans scholarship reduction for at least 8 a year for 3 years. 20% penalty tax on all TV revenue. No post season awards for players.
Or just sbut program down for 2 years
Completelyagree100%@@dougrockhold723
There’s a story going around that they sent signs to SC, they lose by 30 to Florida then beat Tennessee and Clemson back to back…
Harbaugh got Beamer a $4mil/year raise 🤣😂🤣😂🤣
Tennessee still trying to find a way to discredit that ass whoopin
@@Dabomb6101what just happened this year? With TN not having half the talent they did last year, and you having the majority of pieces you had last year? You still got 💩 running down your leg, keep celebrating your “super bowl” from last year while usc jr is 2-5, cope harder.
@@Dabomb6101 SC was terrible last year besides those 2 games. And they’re terrible again this year. Put up 6 pts against Florida one week, then score on every single drive the next against TN? Then beat Clemson on the road? Think knowing the opponents signals isn’t a big deal? I hope the punishment is that SC has to keep that doofus Beamer at HC for another decade.
@@MikeHawkbaby Haha what ever helps u sleep at night. That loss will haunt u until the day u leave this earth. I'm a Gamecocks fan so 2-5 is usual and easy to cope with.
My boys in blue are going to suffer a near death blow. Coaches get off , players suffer the consequences, Michigan football will lose commitments, players will transfer out and Michigan football may never recover. I have been a Michigan man for 40 years and this is the worst I have ever felt. Lastly, I did wonder how we got so good these past few years with so little top notch commitments compared to others...
So you are ruining your own positivity by falling head over heels for speculation and "sources say"? Take a breather. Notice how these "leaks" are always changing and comes out of the side against Michigan? If you use the By-Law wording against all of this, it still is a grey area loophole. No rules were actually broken.
As a Buckeye fan, I feel for you Michigan fans. Yes, I used the M word. We all want to have fair play so when we win or lose, we can hold our heads up and say we beat you fair and square. Or when we lose, we say we will beat you next year and move on. Woody and Bo were great friends off the grid iron. Just fierce competitors. This is the way sports should be. We are all 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇲🇺🇲'S.
From good players that’s how.
The transfer portal will be the kids way out.
Yeah UM’s coaching staff didn’t have any big hires and the roster didn’t change drastically from 2020 going 2-4, to 2021 then all of the sudden they’re considered an “elite team”
Uh ... what? If "100 people yelled 'Bradley stole a pair of jeans'" that'd be so much worse than if one person yelled it? That is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. It is a guy stealing a pair jeans. That's it. No matter how many people "yell it."
I think he means it makes it worse looking as it isnt just one person crying fowl. But if a bunch of people yes I knew this happened and I have x proof to show it. If you get more and more people you can use those bits of info to piece together the big picture making the original allegation more credible(aka worse as its more proof)
@@zazuch That isn't at all what I understood Pate to be saying.
@@dashx1103 but it is. If Michigan ONLY cheated in 1 game that would be more like your example. But to make your example more accurate to whats going on it would have been bradley stole multiple pairs of pants. Then as each store Bradley stole from comes forward going yes we have them on camrea stealing from us, then another then another it makes what they did worse as it keeps adding instances of it to the tally.
@@zazuch LOL. The example stated was NOT that Bradley "stole multiple pairs of pants." The example stated was that he stole a pair of pants. So your scenario is just completely different from the stated scenario.
@@dashx1103 it seems your reading comprehension is very weak. I know what the ORIGNAL example was. To which I said that is not comparable to the Michigan situation as they didn't just steal one set of signals one time from one team. They stole multiple sets from multiple teams multiple times over multiple years. So to be a more accurate comparison you need a far better example and expand it to multiple pairs of pants from multiple stores.
Stop bringing up TCU they weren't even scouted, So tired of people making excuses for Michigan. It does matter that it was trying to cheat. The dude just got off suspension for cheating by recruiting when you were not allowed. He thinks he can do what he wants.
So now we know how Michigan finally be Ohio state and broke into the top 10. They shouldn’t be allowed a bowl game this year.
Does anyone know how good Michigan is?? They havent played anyone in the top 20 (not top 10 top 20). They will only play 2 teams in the top 20 this year. SO how are we supposed to determine how good they are? If anyone is close and has a better out of conf schedule Michigan will get kicked out. No wonder theories point to this issue effecting one loss teams in the SEC and ACC.
The more likely reason noone came out is because they didn't have definitive proof to make a formal accusation independently... but they knew
This is what I said. How did he not come up with this as an option??
I would put it on coaches spending time worrying about the games they are playing this weekend instead of doing a media tour about a coach at another school
Harbaugh is gone...both coordinators are gone...they are going to vacate all wins the last 2-3 years, and a 2 year bowl ban...when this is all going to happen is the question.
The person of interest used his name or the names of people associated with him to acquire tickets he used his on personal equipment. He didn't leave bread crumbs leading back to himself he left entire loaves
This is pretty shady all around. I'm sure it goes on to a degree, kind of like counting cards in a casino, but THIS is effectively akin to having secret cameras on your fellow card players and calling bluffs with 100% accuracy.
Wouldn't you say the dummy signals in the TCU game are different because TCU could use the signs to influence what Michigan might run in response to the dummy signal??? Seems like an interesting part of the story that is buried here... I think Josh is riding the right line on the hype of the Michigan scandal but I just thought this part of the story was funny
All teams use dummy signals
in game signal cheating and changing is okay, knowing your signals weeks in advance even before the first snap is a giant advantage
@@KingKongbabe Yeah but if TCU is aware that Michigan knows a certain signal means run and will react accordingly, couldn't that help TCU run a play action or run to a different gap, etc?
What Michigan is being accused of, is equivalent to what the Astros did.
It's really close to the Patriots "Spygate" back in 2007.
Let's just admit it, Michigan has been caught cheating and should pay the consequences. No one can deny that Jim Harbaugh and his staff were complicit. Ohio State has been involved in controversy of much less infractions with Jim Tressel and Urban Meyer ending their coaching positions. The same should happen with Jim Harbaugh. What Jim Harbaugh and company have done is worse; they need to clean house with anyone involved in this scandal.
Different controversies entirely with Urban Meyer and Ohio State. Urban and his wife, both working for Ohio State, were made aware of an assistant coach assaulting his wife and did not report it. As university employees they were obligated to report that information. Urban went so far as to delete texts and calls on his university phone. Urban also served a 3 game suspension for not making the university aware of the issue. I am not saying Michigan should not be punished, they should.
ok fuckeye fan - you're about to be 0-3
@@watchgeek6712 Problem with your assessment is that the FBI was not involved with Urban Meyer. I agree that Urban Meyer should have reported it, but failed to do so. He also should have not deleted any messages or emails relating to the incident, and where is Urban Meyer at today? Not coaching football. The same should go for Harbaugh.
@@bromosapien4972You should be more worried about the FBI arriving in A square investigating the books getting cooked to cover up the money used in the cheating scandal. The lid is about to get blown sky high. Bye bye skunk weasels.
Josh is not ready to say it yet. But, deep down he knows damn well Micheatgan is cooked. 😂
BREAKING NEWS!!!!! NEW SCANDAL INFO!!!!!!DWIGHT HOWARD CALLS OUT OSU COACHES BECAUSE HE HAS PHOTOS OF THEM WITH HIM AND KITTY!!!! HE TURNED THEM ALL OVER TO MICHIGAN COACHES !!!!!!
Josh your rant missed the entire point. It is not about signal stealing it is about all teams following the same rules. This is about scouting a team prior to play and recording their signals to decode prior to going into a game. If you don’t enforce these rules then why follow any of them.
Sign stealing happens but goes beyond that into an area there are clear rules and no one but U of M has been shown to possibly violated.
Except no one has actually seen anything, it's still "reports says" "sources says", lol. Also, go reread the rule. If you go by the reports, they even say 3rd party people went to the games, not Stallion. So, how will the NCAA even find who they are? A nongovernment entity cannot compel anyone to give up outside private citizens their names or data/phone records. It's crazy that you guys cannot even use the By-Laws written for the public to see and apply what I mentioned here. It's not hard. Likely a loophole, but the very least, it could also be Stallion literally giving friends the tickets. Lastly, what if those friends decided they couldn't make it and resold those tickets? You see what I am getting at? It's bonkers! Lol.
Other coaching staffs were publicly talking about it. Schiano spelled it out in his half time interview on national TV
in his post-game interview he said he was talking about calls made by the reffs
And to think, Tressel got suspended and then canned for players trading memorabilia for tatoos. If any coach gave a public opinion on this matter, they would be called jealous or envious of Michigan's standing in the rankings.
The NFL also banned Tressel from coaching. Something weird going on there. Tressel was marked persona non grata. We know from the Fab Five days UM is linked to the mob.
It isn't just the cost of the tickets to the games, but you have to figure in airline tickets, hotels, food, and any other intertainment provided. I only live 1 1/2 hours drive from Tuscaloosa, but I know what the hotel rooms go for during a home game. A $60 room can't be had for less than $400 during a home game.
My concern is what happens to the program and the players. If the NCAA comes down hard, Harbaugh skips off to the NFL while the program and the players pay the price.
The size and scope play a part too. If there was evidence this happened once, sure a slap on the wrist. The fact that this happened at least 35 times that we know of is a big deal. Not only that, evidence suggests the head football coach had to have known, or should have known also makes it a big deal. The fact the the funding is almost certainly from either the the head coach, or a coordinator, or the university itself, makes it a big deal. Also new reports that they shared this information with other programs, likely the Gamecocks, in order to help shape the playoffs to their favor....Michigan deserves a serious punishment. If they happen to win a Natty this year, it should be stripped.
Sorry Michigan fans, I know it sucks, and it isn't your fault, but you break the rules, you have to atone for you sins.
It must suck to always believe the rumor mill of the media 😂
@@bk6555cope and seethe
@@bk6555cope and seethe
@@bk6555 I found Jim Harboughs RUclips account, yall.
There hasn’t been any evidence pointing to Harbaugh knowing 😂 There also hasn’t been any evidence presented that the funding wasn’t coming from the guy responsible. What are you reading?
THOUGHTS:
(1) I agree with Josh Pate. I find it difficult to believe that Jim Harbaugh didn't know what was going on. If Mr. Harbaugh truly wasn't aware of what Connor Stalions was doing, minimally that's a dereliction of the responsibilities of a coach, and does release him from accountability.
(2) I played high school football. Our coaches and staff would always attend our opponents football games and take notes. Before we'd play these opponents, our coaches would brief us on their formations, signs, play calling etc. Although we didn't have cellphones back in the 70s, the spirit was the same. I fail to see how all of a sudden it's a problem. Personally, I think folks are trying to destroy Michigan by engineering an NCAA violation and prevent them from making the playoffs.
I hear it's about to get worse. They have the FBI, The Big Ten and NCAA all on campus. Matt Weiss seems to be the key here. Also the Harbaugh/Manuel relationship seems to be frosty at best.
Yup, it's bad. The skunk weasels are toast.
Stealing for your own gain is one thing, probably common. However, the intel suggesting they spied on most potential CFB playoff opponents is where it gets weird. They apparently scouted UT and UGA before the seasons were even 3/4 over, and now UT fans have uncovered that USCjr conveniently wore wristbands just for the UT game ONLY and there is alleged communication between south car and Michigan.
So, where does the line get drawn? For me, it's essentially RIGGING the entirety of CFB. At that *potential*, you are fixing the sport as a whole and IMO that's a very very different ball game than "good studying of film" like most schools likely do. Now the advanced version of the latter sounds like what Mich did in the big 10, but then they may have fixed things in other conferences to outcomes they felt better for them.
There is a difference between sign stealing (the kind that a lot of you say is very common) and SYSTEMIC sign stealing that has access to the sign scheme. I dont know how else to tell yall how big of a difference that is. The systemic sign stealing is not a common thing.
Define SYSTEMIC and apply that to the current by-laws for the NCAA..... what now?
funny thing about TCU, the articles that came out literally said TCU was not on the scouting schedule anywhere. so it made no diffrence
They couldn’t steal their signs and got their ass kicked. Kinda tells you what you need to know
@@Dandelionclover given the level of upset it was yes they did. Michigan should have handled TCU like Georgia did.
@@Dandelionclover yes even though they where close in rank TCU was given that ranking by default and was felt by many the big underdog of the 4 teams in the playoffs. They where given the ranking as they didnt want a OSU vs Michigan rematch in first round, and gave both teams with 1 loss a way back in. Michigan was the favor by a large margin and lost. Its not just me but many people far more knowledgeable then either of us also consider that win for tcu a upset.
@@zazuchthey were a 7 point favorite that’s not that crazy
@@di114n2 it was still an upset for multiple reasons lol. I am not the only one who said that.
Noticed you didn't mention South Carolina possibly being involved.🤔
The only question is whether they recorded the sideline of multiple games or not. If they did - they cheated. And no, not everyone does that!
Ohio State lost the post season, scholarships, and a head coach because a player sold his own property…how much more should the penalty be for cheating?
Ultimately, this is worst for the Michigan players, because their own coaches felt like they had to cheat in order to win. What a total disrespect. I’d transfer at the end of the season.
BREAKING NEWS!!!!! NEW SCANDAL INFO!!!!!!MICHIGAN HAD CAMERAS AT OSU HOMES!!!!!!!! GOT GAME SIGNS AND PICS OF COACHES BEDROOMS!!!!!THEY GOT MORE THAN JUST SIGNS!!!!! GIVES FULL BLOWN A WHOLE NEW MEANING!!!!! A LOT OF PEOPLE GOT BLOWN!!!!NO ONE KNEW SO MANY OSU COACHES WERE ACTUALLY GAY!!!!!!! TEAM DOWN SOUTH HAS A WHOLE NEW MEANING!!!!! DUDES IN DRAG!!!!GOING UP THE OLD DIRT ROAD!!!!SCARLET AND GAY!!!!! WHO KNEW!?!?!? IT'S MORE THAN JUST A RABBIT HOLE AFTER ALL!!!! A LOT SMELLIER THAN ANY OTHER HOLE!!! AND A LOT MORE OF THEM!!!!!
The good news is that this is all coming out now. That way the right people can get punished, and not innocent kids years down the line.
BREAKING NEWS!!!!! NEW SCANDAL INFO!!!!!!DWIGHT HOWARD CALLS OUT OSU COACHES BECAUSE HE HAS PHOTOS OF THEM WITH HIM AND KITTY!!!! HE TURNED THEM ALL OVER TO MICHIGAN COACHES !!!!!!
As a Buckeye, I hate UM. But I don't hate the players, I love the Tradition, and the spirit of the Game. This does nothing but damage everything I hold dear in College Football.
Trying to read signs and predict your opponent's moves is fine. Creating an expensive System to do it is ridiculous and needs punishment. We can debate the punishment. V
This is getting juicier!
The Board of Directors Infractions Process Committee requested that the Legislative Committee Modernization of the Rules Subcommittee focus its rules modernization efforts on identifying rules that no longer serve the needs of the membership and the 21st century student-athlete, and recommending modifications to or the elimination of such rules. Specifically, livestreams of intercollegiate competition and prerecorded game film are readily available in the digital age. The minimal competitive advantage gained by scouting future opponents in-person is outweighed by the monitoring and enforcement burdens of ensuring compliance with the legislation.
The playoff committee should be interested,it is THIS years games they got caught. A next tear punishment would be irrelevant.
I haven’t heard any evidence suggesting that Michigan gained any advantage from this over any of this seasons opponents so far. The NCAA also considers this infraction to be minor.
@@paulmayer8654When was the last time you cleaned your ears?
@@bigdaddyromance6692 maybe you're slow. In order to even say Michigan had an unfair advantage over any of this seasons opponents that they have already played, there has to be evidence against Michigan for those games specifically. We do not know that. Also, this entire "scandal" is considered to be a minor, level 3 violation by the NCAA. The NCAA doesn't levy major penalties for rules violations that provide "minimal advantage" which they also happen to be trying to get rid of. On top of all that, Michigan might have possibly loopholed themselves out of any penalty whatsoever. It depends on what, if any, links are found in the money trail.
@@paulmayer8654 ok skunk weasel. Now tell that to the FBI and Vegas.
@paulmayer8654 Opps, stalione and Jay hairball just implicated in gambling 2nd half point spreads. Evidence found on scums computers. The scandal snowballed into an avalanche. Oh so slow. lololololololol. Cope skunk weasel cope. Now tell me jimmy didn't know.
You mentioned other coaches tipping off other coaches about it but then questioned why, if they knew it was happening, didn't they call them out, but I think you missed the most logical explanation. They were just tipping off other coaches about Michigan stealing signs, which, besides the fact that everyone does it, it isn't against the rules. So the coaches may have been aware it was happening, but not aware that they were doing it in a way that was against the rules, i.e. in-person scouting, using electronics, etc.
They also probably didn't have all the proof individually. They all had bits and pieces of evidence. Enough where accumulated it provides convincing proof of these nefarious actions.
Not surprised that Pate would give them a pass. Just blame the NCAA and there's you Get out of Jail Free card.
look I don't see the death penalty for Michigan to much money to the ncaa. but schools have done less and vacated years of wins and missed years of bowl games. If they don't take away every win from Michigan since this coach joined the team then this is all a joke. Or be banned from all bowl games for the next few years. If even a sliver of what is being alleged is true wins and bowl bans should be in order.
I hear what you’re saying about going on the offensive about this stuff, but if Day and his staff knew about it and then brought it up publicly after the loss to Michigan it would just be a bad look and come across as an excuse. Day was in a lose-lose situation with it. Probably the only good thing he could do is tip off TCU (if other teams already hadn’t)
Are you kidding??? Their PR firm is totally seeding the coverage every day.
@@jonm4453 what are you talking about? You sound like a Michigan fan in denial and looking to point the finger anywhere but at your program lol
@@bradmurray7362 just wait and see how this all came about and then get back to me
Do not punish the university in a way that affects the players. Too often, during any investigation or punishment being handed out, the players end up paying the price when they had nothing to do with. They get banned from bowls or not allowed to count certain wins or participate in activities that could have an impact on their future. Punish the people who committed the infractions but don't punish the ones that didn't. These are team sports, but they are not team infractions, or the team is not breaking the rules as a team, so why should players that have nothing to do with these things be punished?
Just to be clear, I am an Ohio State fan but I do feel like Michigan has been the more complete team over the last couple of years.
I don't know how much this scandal helped Michigan in their last couple of years, but looking at it from as unbiased of a view as I can. Harbaugh had a pay cut after 2020 where they had a terrible COVID year and this scandal apparently started in 2021 when his back was against the wall and since this scandal began, they have been one of the best teams in college football.
That might be a coincidence because they are a very talented team but again trying to look at it as unbiased as possible. It doesn't look great
If you knew that a team was running the ball and your defensive players just had to react instead of seeing what’s developing and then react. It absolutely is a huge advantage. Does that mean Michigan is a terrible team without the cheating absolutely not. But when they know what the play is before it takes place is a absolutely huge advantage both offense and defensively and you’d have to be blind to not see that.
It’s easy to look at scUM as a “complete team” when they have your signs.
They weren’t too “complete “ when TCU beat them…scUM didn’t have their signs!
@@davidelliott7231Kaboom, Bullseye.
4,353 days since Michigan beat Ohio state Go Buckeyes 🤣🌰
I'll be a broken record. Every major program cheated and paid players in the 80s. Teams like SMU and Miami got greedy, crossed the line, got caught, and got punished.
The "everyone does it" UM fans and supporters people need to get mad at Harbaugh for getting greedy and getting caught instead of getting mad at the media and other fans.
And just like SMU and Miami couldn't blame rogue boosters for a lack of institutional control, UM can't blame a rogue employee. Just accept your fate and move on.
It's more about how many pairs of jeans Bradley stole.
This is as much about "intent" as much as its about actions. IF the accusations are true then this is VERY serious.
FBI is investigating a different issue not related to sign stealing.
If this is such a big deal, why is there so much effort being made to convince everybody it's a big deal?
Its because the Michigan football program and Michigan's fans both think they can do no wrong that's why its a big deal they do the crime they should do the crime
Usually when the FBI gets involved it's pretty serious...
@knightofakatosh693 usually when the FBI gets involved, it's a political hit job
0 titles and a trashed reputation.
The Harbaugh years....
Nobody likes Michigan
@LivingInAnInverseReality and you’re? a nobody
TCU was able to take advantage because it was the semifinals, so they had more time to prepare for the cheaters. .
Im a UGA fan, but if Michigan wasnt running the table right now, nobody would care about this at all.
That’s why they should care if they can only win if they cheat that’s a problem
@chicken_sandwich3377 you realize that Michigan made sweeping coaching changes in 2021? Look at Georgia's record before and after Kirby. Look at OSU when Cooper was outed. The narratives are all the same
@@chicken_sandwich3377This isn't winning them games lol Michigan is just plain good and people don't like it. Same with the Patriots and deflategate, it didn't make a difference and was blown out of proportion. People hated the Patriots and Brady because they were good
Point taken and why it needs to be addressed. Are they running the table because they are cheating?🧐. Time will tell
If a cheater is winning by cheating, its a big deal. If they cheat and still lose, of course no one is paying attention. That's the whole point.
What would Mike Leach do? Just like the fake playbook vs Texas, he would make the new signals the opposite the old signals. R.I.P, Pirate!
If the NCAA truly are, on Michigan's Campus and investigating then it would appear to be serious enough but keep in mind this is also the same NCAA who let men compete as female swimmers!
He lost all credibility at the start when he said I have a life outside football!
Stealing signs is not illegal under any NCAA rule. Coaches can steal signs during games and tournaments all they want!
you haven't followed anything that has gone on have you?
You should catch up on the news.
@@moose800 lol
@@ryanbrown7894 🤮I’m well aware of the convenient reporting and “news” coming from sports outlets, but my statement still stands. This is a dumb investigation.
To all my future Ohio State commenters…
-Ryan Day confirmed Ohio State changed their signs before The Game last season, and lost worse than the year before.
-Game film is literally available online for every game ever to watch an analyze.
-The NCAA and media are allowed to conveniently leak information, but the alleged (MIchigan in this case) must remain silent.
-Stealing signs is not illegal.
-The NCAA rule in question doesn't even define "scouting". So if I go to a game and post signs on twitter, and a coach sees it, apparently thats fine?
-The NCAA set to erase said rule in 2021, but because it is so irrelevant in today's world, they decided to not waste their time.
-Stories like NCAA investigators being on Michigan campus this week are completely false.
This is starting to look a lot like Ohio State and Jim Tressel
There's an entirely different game being played under the surface among these teams. There are no rules, it's completely invisible to the public, and the only penality is getting caught.
Money ruins everything 😑
I stand with Michigan. Go Blue.
As a program, if I am aware of another program doing something I am going to keep my mouth shut and game plan around it to use it as an advantage. The problem for Michigan is that your head coach was already in the NCAA spotlight so everything is looked at in a different light, vs. this as an isolated incident. It's why Harbaugh has been trying to get back to the NFL for a couple of years now.
Damn. Where does this stop.. UM is cooked
Thank you Josh. This is one of the most level headed videos ive watched that wasn't from a Michigan perspective. I think this is way bigger and deeper than UofM, for the points youve just stated. But certain fan bases dont want to hear that.
I mean it was a huge prob I. The nfl. And for the ncaa to say they can’t afford it is bullshit.
If you think this is nothing major; you’re wrong. You just are
Do you realize the FBI is involved and the NCAA is currently on campus??? This week michigan is supposed to be out recruiting instead they're answering questions hoping for plausible deniability. This is nothing to thank Josh over we know michigan took this and went too far. Harbaugh himself has NOBODY to blame but him and his staffers. Stop trying to make yourself feel better by grasping at straws.
@@OfficiallyOrcaSays the guy grasping at straws. You do know if the FBI is involved, that is because a crime occurred? You know what that crime is? Either theft and/or corporate espionage. That means someone ILLEGALLY obtained data and private property and that evidence has most definitely been tampered with. None of what has occurred shows what Michigan did anything wrong. They either found a loophole. Or Stallion actually gave his tickets to friends of his. Because of the entire rabid and foaming at the mouth reaction by everyone else, this story has blown up to absolute ridiculous levels.
@@bigike33 did I say it wasn't major?
Sprial? Still don’t know what rule they broke ? Wasn’t the in person scouting rule since no staffer was there
They are doing this for ratings because the views and clicks went way up over this story. Cyclic reporting gone out of control.
No other coaches seem to be calling Harbaugh out ....speaks volumes to me.... probably because most of them are doing it too....what do you think?
Coaches never call out other coaches. It typical coach speak to stay out of situations like this.
You’re more than likely right. I mean there is a reason that the coaches keep voting against putting radios in the helmets… and no it’s not just small programs, massive programs that can easily afford that are voting against putting radios in the helmet each year.
This guy used 10 minutes to say nothing.
If it’s up to the punitive, abusive power of the NCAA, then God help Michigan!
Michigan “Videogate” 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
they are on Michigan's campus right now because michigan had advance notice of the investigation due to the media leak, they had an opportunity to delete emails and text messages linking other coaches to stalions. Of course they're there - what other options did they have once it was leaked.
They can delete all they want, the mainframe still has all the information stored.
I saw in another video from a football scout that there was a rule change in 2013, where any program can literally pay a third party for scouting services. So, If this program budgeted for, bought tickets for, and paid travel expenses for somebody outside the program to perform in-person scouting, which is otherwise prohibited for actual staff.. sounds like that's ok? I mean, unless there's video of Michigan staff at all those games, isn't this exactly what the evidence is showing they've done? Comply with the rules? Where's the language which says a spectator or third party can't record a game on their phone? I think that's the loophole open to interpretation.
Using video or audio to film a coach’s signals is strictly prohibited. Advanced In person scouting is also prohibited. I can understand a strategy to try and find loopholes and figure out a way out. But those first two things are pretty simple and straight forward and that’s what’s being alleged
If that’s true then wouldn’t every team be doing so openly?
I don’t know if this is accurate. I can’t find any such amendment. According to The Athletic, Detroit News and multiple other outlets, they keep pointing to “Bylaw 11.6.1: “Off-campus, in-person scouting of future opponents (in the same season) is prohibited.” The big issue, as I understand it really focuses on the electronic (iphone) recording device.
That still doesn't allow videotaping. That is specifically against the rules.
This explanation has been making the rounds on Michigan message boards, but you have to figure that the NCAA has reviewed this issue. Investigation proceeds.
Yea it’s so over we hacked into their database and stole practice footage
Using signs in college football is like broadcasting radio signals. When you spew these signals into the air anybody can intercept them! This is a stupid situation. Leave Michigan alone.
Funny how you try to make excuses and justify an elaborate scheme to get an edge. He just came off suspension for cheating during recruiting. It was an elaborate scheme to get an edge. Person. So signing autographs to get Tatts or money is a scheme that ruins players careers but paying 10 of thousands of dollars to fly someone all over the country to try and get there edge is just fine. The hypocrisy from Michigan fans is pathetic.
Since D-1 schools don't trust each other, my first gut reaction was, "Who told on them?"
I was wondering about tcu. They moved the ball pretty well on MIchigan. Considering how good Ohio State was on offense last year and how well Michigan stood up to them (Georgia D couldn't). At the end of the day though. this is just conversation for fans.
jobs to go to: in houston, texas at 10 am every freeway is totally packed. at 2 pm, in houston texas every freeway is packed. these freeways stayed packed for 3 to 4 hours. now, who the hell is working??????????????????????????????????????
Maybe it's karma, haunting Michigan for playing an ivy league schedule this year😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
It’s also possible that the tipsters for TCU were assuming that they were just insanely good at the legal sign stealing in game and on the legal tapes. They might now have realized it reached into illegal scouting 🤷♂️